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View Full Version : What are fouls?



KenTankerous
02-15-2009, 11:14 PM
I've been a fan since I was self aware, played the game since I was five and yet when I watch games I really do not understand what is called and what is ignored.

Is there some you tube, some tutorial, some school of the eye I am missing?

Any help, I'll take it.

RelativeWays
02-15-2009, 11:27 PM
According to the ref's at today's game, fouls are what happen when you play man to man defense. Most of these fouls occur in purely theoretical terms, but that suffices enough for the ref to blow the whistle.

eddiehaskell
02-15-2009, 11:33 PM
I find myself saying "what foul?" a lot more than "ok, that's a foul." Maybe it's just harder to notice the contact on TV....

OZZIE4DUKE
02-15-2009, 11:43 PM
It is foul when you take unnecessary three point shots when driving to the bucket for 2 will suffice, especially when you don't make the 3.

klwooten
02-15-2009, 11:58 PM
KenTankerous, you do NOT have a problem recognizing fouls. RelativeWays explained it all perfectly!

sivartrenrag
02-16-2009, 12:27 AM
Whenever the ball is around Zoubek, Zoubek is fouling. At least that's what the refs say.

Heck, whenever the ball is around a Duke player, they are doing something that constitutes a foul if you look at tonight's game.

I'd love to see refs let the guys play a little more. If something doesn't significantly alter a shot or possession, let it go. And add in the NBA "under the basket" thing for charges/blocks.

But oh yeah, "Duke gets all the calls," right?

JStuart
02-16-2009, 06:47 AM
Couldn't find another more appropriate thread; but did anyone see the charging foul Miami was called for against Hansbrough, oh, the 2nd or 3rd -to-last play of the game? H slid out laterally in front of the Miami player, was not set, still moving, stuck his knee out just before contact -just like a moving screen- and immediately fell back several feet, not quite as far as against Paulus.
If the call is a block, Miami gets to the line (well, maybe not, as both teams were under the limit) and H has 4 fouls. Instead, Lawson hits a three, and Miami is too far behind.
The replay showed what I was always led to believe is the classic blocking foul, where the defender never truly is set, and is moving into position just as he makes contact. Then H sold it by falling down (for such a big guy, he sure gets knocked down a lot!), and the refs were buying it big time.
They did get him for traveling once, though....

bulldog44
02-16-2009, 08:12 AM
Couldn't find another more appropriate thread; but did anyone see the charging foul Miami was called for against Hansbrough, oh, the 2nd or 3rd -to-last play of the game? H slid out laterally in front of the Miami player, was not set, still moving, stuck his knee out just before contact -just like a moving screen- and immediately fell back several feet, not quite as far as against Paulus.
If the call is a block, Miami gets to the line (well, maybe not, as both teams were under the limit) and H has 4 fouls. Instead, Lawson hits a three, and Miami is too far behind.
The replay showed what I was always led to believe is the classic blocking foul, where the defender never truly is set, and is moving into position just as he makes contact. Then H sold it by falling down (for such a big guy, he sure gets knocked down a lot!), and the refs were buying it big time.
They did get him for traveling once, though....
I rewound that one a few times to look at it. While I agree Tylenol wasn't fully set, I think the reason it was the right call ( and yes I loathe the Tarholes ) is because the Miami player lowered his shoulder. If he hadn't have done that I think Handiwipe would have been called. But as usual he did flop and overact.

Wheat/"/"/"
02-16-2009, 08:53 AM
I rewound that one a few times to look at it. While I agree Tylenol wasn't fully set, I think the reason it was the right call ( and yes I loathe the Tarholes ) is because the Miami player lowered his shoulder. If he hadn't have done that I think Handiwipe would have been called. But as usual he did flop and overact.

The ACC is the top basketball conference and has the worst officials in the game. I find it frustrating to watch any ACC game. It's been that way for years, it's like having a bad Prof with tenure. Nobody can learn, but they keep getting paid for sub par work.

Touch fouls one play and then hacking, bloody no calls the next.

I wish I had the time and ability to Youtube the fouls that weren't called in that Miami game (both sides) against those that were.

TH in particular was beaten to a pulp with no calls in this one.
I 'm sure there will be some sympathy for that around here....;)

devildeac
02-16-2009, 09:35 AM
The ACC is the top basketball conference and has the worst officials in the game. I find it frustrating to watch any ACC game. It's been that way for years, it's like having a bad Prof with tenure. Nobody can learn, but they keep getting paid for sub par work.

Touch fouls one play and then hacking, bloody no calls the next.

I wish I had the time and ability to Youtube the fouls that weren't called in that Miami game (both sides) against those that were.

TH in particular was beaten to a pulp with no calls in this one.
I 'm sure there will be some sympathy for that around here....;)

Very small violin appears here and plays a solitary, very soft note...:rolleyes:;)

DeepBlue70
02-16-2009, 10:42 AM
Anyone else have an issue with the non-call on Scheyer's missed three late in the first half? We were never given a replay but it appeared to me that the BC defender hammered him right after release, and of course, Scheyer went flying. BC got the rebound and immediately drained a three on the other end - a 6 point swing. Took the lead from a potential 13 to 7. A minute later it was halftime and the lead was 5 with BC feeling they were back in the game. I felt the entire game turned on that one non-call. Neither of the announcers mentioned it.

calltheobvious
02-16-2009, 12:03 PM
The ACC is the top basketball conference and has the worst officials in the game. I find it frustrating to watch any ACC game. It's been that way for years, it's like having a bad Prof with tenure. Nobody can learn, but they keep getting paid for sub par work.
Touch fouls one play and then hacking, bloody no calls the next.

I wish I had the time and ability to Youtube the fouls that weren't called in that Miami game (both sides) against those that were.

TH in particular was beaten to a pulp with no calls in this one.
I 'm sure there will be some sympathy for that around here....;)

This is simply not true. Geography is the only limiting factor in where guys work, and even that is not such a big deal, as you have a particularly prominent Californian working Big 12 and CUSA, in addition to Pac-10 games.

The ACC is indeed the most respected league in the country, and while that's no guarantee that it will have the strongest staff, it does mean that among the most talented officials in the country, a spot on that staff is extremely desirable. I can tell you that there's no shortage of high-level officials trying to get a foothold in the ACC.

For the ACC to have the worst officials in the country (which is just ridiculous on its face; ever watch WCC games at the end of Big Monday? Ever watch conferences farther down the pecking order than the WCC?), one of several things would have to be true, and not a one of them is likely.

1) ACC Supervisor of Officials John Clougherty doesn't know how to evaluate talent.
2) Clougherty doesn't know how to train a staff
3) Clougherty is A-OK on 1 and 2, but chooses to neglect his responsibilities in one or both areas.

If you want to latch on to one of those possibilities, by all means fire away. But be ready with some evidence, because it's a big claim you'd be making.

captmojo
02-16-2009, 07:45 PM
I've been a fan since I was self aware, played the game since I was five and yet when I watch games I really do not understand what is called and what is ignored.

Is there some you tube, some tutorial, some school of the eye I am missing?

Any help, I'll take it.

Think of it this way. Basketball is a non-contact sport. Some contact is normal within the context and flow of the game. The foul should be what represents contact which gains a specific advantage for the player who initiates that contact. the charge/block is, and will always be, the hardest judgment for the official. He must determine which player had the established position and the timing involved. (Did the man with the ball leave his feet off the floor before the defender was set? Did the defender move after the man with the ball's feet left the floor?) It's also very tough to call in real time action viewing.

One call I think we don't see enough any more is the over-the-back rebounding foul. This used to be a pet project in the ACC.

weezie
02-16-2009, 10:24 PM
Am I hallucinating that the first and second halves of yesterday's games were called within completely different frames of reference?
How did we manage in the 2nd half to accumulate 8 quick ones to BC's one?
Was there that big a difference in how Duke defended?

moonpie23
02-17-2009, 11:54 AM
one of the reasons for all the second guessing is the instant replay...We have the advantage of seeing it in slo-mo, high-def, 3 different angles. the refs do not. because we DO get that benefit, the outrage over a missed call is greater.

i still think that refs from each conference should be rotated to another conference each year, or every two years. it's only human to develop likes and dislikes with players, coaches, styles of play and rivalries...

imagine a game in the big east with karl hess officiating...