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brumby041
02-12-2009, 02:41 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/seth_davis/02/12/carolina.duke/index.html

Key Quote:
When the horn sounded, Lawson raised his arms, smiled gleefully at the Duke student section behind him and delivered an emphatic parting shot. "F--- you!" he shouted.

Stay classy, Ty.

Matches
02-12-2009, 02:42 PM
Was he shouting at the students or the non-alcohol-selling soda vendors?

CDu
02-12-2009, 02:42 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/seth_davis/02/12/carolina.duke/index.html

Key Quote:
When the horn sounded, Lawson raised his arms, smiled gleefully at the Duke student section behind him and delivered an emphatic parting shot. "F--- you!" he shouted.

Stay classy, Ty.

I'm guessing Redick has done similar things. But yeah, it's not very classy. But that's never been the way UNC has done things (witness breakaway dunks with double-digit leads and less than 20 seconds to go).

jv001
02-12-2009, 02:46 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/seth_davis/02/12/carolina.duke/index.html

Key Quote:
When the horn sounded, Lawson raised his arms, smiled gleefully at the Duke student section behind him and delivered an emphatic parting shot. "F--- you!" he shouted.

Stay classy, Ty.

Now I see why unc is so successful. mike copeland is really the head coach not ole roy. ty lawson is just another punk point guard for the heels. I had rather lose as a Duke Blue Devil than win as unc classless university. GoDuke!

gethlives
02-12-2009, 02:46 PM
You see that is what I have never understood about the Crazies. It is OK for you to yell "DUI" at a kid for an entire game (never mind the fact that is not what he was charged with) but it is not OK for a player to yell back at the fans? Seems what Lawson did was perfectly harmless.

Fish80
02-12-2009, 02:50 PM
You see that is what I have never understood about the Crazies. It is OK for you to yell "DUI" at a kid for an entire game (never mind the fact that is not what he was charged with) but it is not OK for a player to yell back at the fans? Seems what Lawson did was perfectly harmless.

The fact that he yelled back after the game is not the issue. It's what he's reported to have yelled that is classless, and it is classless no matter who yells it.

gethlives
02-12-2009, 02:55 PM
The fact that he yelled back after the game is not the issue. It's what he's reported to have yelled that is classless, and it is classless no matter who yells it.

So just to clarify in 1996, when the Crazies chanted "A-Hole" at McInnis or in past years when they have chanted "whiny b-" at players that was OK? Seems like those are just as bad as the F-You Lawson dropped.

Fish80
02-12-2009, 02:59 PM
So just to clarify in 1996, when the Crazies chanted "A-Hole" at McInnis or in past years when they have chanted "whiny b-" at players that was OK? Seems like those are just as bad as the F-You Lawson dropped.

IMHO, "A-Hole" and "whiny b-" are classless. I don't know when or if they were chanted by any fans, but still hypothetically classless none-the-less.

What is your point? Somebody else once said something bad so Lawson has a free pass to say anything anytime anywhere?

ForeverBlowingBubbles
02-12-2009, 03:00 PM
Because he did, Lawson breathed new life into North Carolina's season. He doesn't just give the Tar Heels transition buckets and free-throw attempts. He gives them their swagger. "You have to play like you believe no one can stop you," Lawson said. "If you don't come into a game like that, you shouldn't be playing this sport."

I think that, not the original post is the "key quote" from this article.

It seems we only have one player on our team with anything close to that attitude... I'm not trying to hate on our team - there is just more to Lawsons character and class then that statement. I would take what he did any day in comparison to a player throwing a cheap elbow.

I would put money on the fact that some people who have commented on the classlessness of the statement have said "F--- Carolina" before themselves.

CDu
02-12-2009, 03:01 PM
The fact that he yelled back after the game is not the issue. It's what he's reported to have yelled that is classless, and it is classless no matter who yells it.

I think the point he was making was that yelling "DUI" is pretty classless too. And it's probably not the only time the Crazies have had a classless cheer. I certainly remember some classless cheers that Coach K had to personally stop during my college years.

That's not to say what Lawson said was appropriate. Just to say that calling him out for not being classy is sort of indirectly a case of pot calling the kettle black (as in Duke players and fans have shown some classless moments too - not that the poster is classless).

CDu
02-12-2009, 03:03 PM
IMHO, "A-Hole" and "whiny b-" are classless. I don't know when or if they were chanted by any fans, but still hypothetically classless none-the-less.

What is your point? Somebody else once said something bad so Lawson has a free pass to say anything anytime anywhere?

Those were said. There was also a cheer of "Burgess got your dad fired," which rates right at the top for me.

The point isn't that what Lawson did was acceptable. It's just that our side isn't without blame either. It kind of comes with the territory on both sides.

Fish80
02-12-2009, 03:11 PM
I think the point he was making was that yelling "DUI" is pretty classless too. And it's probably not the only time the Crazies have had a classless cheer. I certainly remember some classless cheers that Coach K had to personally stop during my college years.

That's not to say what Lawson said was appropriate. Just to say that calling him out for not being classy is sort of indirectly a case of pot calling the kettle black (as in Duke players and fans have shown some classless moments too - not that the poster is classless).

I'd agree that the crazies have had a few classless cheers from time to time. But I wouldn't put DUI in that category.

I'm not trying to say the crazies are angels. I wasn't then. They're not now. But yelling F-you at them is classless, whatever the crazies did or didn't do.

However, I don't think it's that big of a deal. If anything, it's a little bit of motivational material for our guys the next time.

Jumping up on the scorers table and ripping off your shirt is even more classless.

DBFAN
02-12-2009, 03:11 PM
My problem with this is that Seth Davis seems to think this was a great and wonderful thing he did, If someone had spotted a Duke player yelling at the Crowd like that do you actually think they would write such a nice column. Players have to contain themselves from talking to the crowd other wise you have crazy stuff to happen like we had in the NBA a couple of years ago.

Biscuit
02-12-2009, 03:14 PM
I'd agree that the crazies have had a few classless cheers from time to time. But I wouldn't put DUI in that category.

I'm not trying to say the crazies are angels. I wasn't then. They're not now. But yelling F-you at them is classless, whatever the crazies did or didn't do.

However, I don't think it's that big of a deal. If anything, it's a little bit of motivational material for our guys the next time.

Jumping up on the scorers table and ripping off your shirt is even more classless.

I don't really like what he did, but it's worth noting that he didn't get a DUI. He committed a much less significant infraction. So basically, the Crazies were accusing him of a crime he didn't commit, via chant, on national television. Frankly, if someone did that to me, my response would probably be way worse than F--- You.

feldspar
02-12-2009, 03:14 PM
My problem with this is that Seth Davis seems to think this was a great and wonderful thing he did, If someone had spotted a Duke player yelling at the Crowd like that do you actually think they would write such a nice column. Players have to contain themselves from talking to the crowd other wise you have crazy stuff to happen like we had in the NBA a couple of years ago.

No, I think Seth's point was how much of an accomplishment it is for a player, from UNC notwithstanding, to have such confidence at Cameron to be able to pull a stunt like that.

UNC has pwned Duke the past four years at Cameron, and Lawson's outburst was an outward expression of this.

CDu
02-12-2009, 03:15 PM
I'd agree that the crazies have had a few classless cheers from time to time. But I wouldn't put DUI in that category.

I'm not trying to say the crazies are angels. I wasn't then. They're not now. But yelling F-you at them is classless, whatever the crazies did or didn't do.

However, I don't think it's that big of a deal. If anything, it's a little bit of motivational material for our guys the next time.

Jumping up on the scorers table and ripping off your shirt is even more classless.

Personally, I think chanting "DUI" and yelling "F--- you" are equally classless. The latter is certainly more crude, but they're equally classless.

I agree that it's really not a big deal.

sivartrenrag
02-12-2009, 03:16 PM
I don't really care about what they yell back and forth. What makes Carolina classless are the breakaway dunks when the shot clock is turned off when they're up by 10+.

jv001
02-12-2009, 03:17 PM
My problem with this is that Seth Davis seems to think this was a great and wonderful thing he did, If someone had spotted a Duke player yelling at the Crowd like that do you actually think they would write such a nice column. Players have to contain themselves from talking to the crowd other wise you have crazy stuff to happen like we had in the NBA a couple of years ago.

Players classless and fans classless. Happens all the time. I just think lawson isn't very smart. That's not something I can say about the Crazies. Go Duke!

Fish80
02-12-2009, 03:22 PM
I don't really like what he did, but it's worth noting that he didn't get a DUI. He committed a much less significant infraction. So basically, the Crazies were accusing him of a crime he didn't commit, via chant, on national television. Frankly, if someone did that to me, my response would probably be way worse than F--- You.

Your personal response to being accused of DUI seems to me irrelevant.

He was charged with driving after consuming alcohol, after failing a field sobriety test. I don't know if he was ever given a blood test.

DUI is much easier to cheer than "driving after consuming alcohol".

Biscuit
02-12-2009, 03:33 PM
Your personal response to being accused of DUI seems to me irrelevant.

He was charged with driving after consuming alcohol, after failing a field sobriety test. I don't know if he was ever given a blood test.

DUI is much easier to cheer than "driving after consuming alcohol".

They stopped him, he blew a number well below the legal limit, but they had to cite him for something since he was underage. The charge, essentially, is underage drinking. Something I think every one of us did. A DUI is a totally different animal- it stays with you the rest of your life, and carries a sort of "scarlet letter" in our culture.

The difference is enormous. Disregarding it was poor form to say the least. I'm not sure "F--- You" was the proper response, but it was an understandable one. You won't find a bigger light-blue-wearing defender of the Crazies than me, but they deserved to be called out on this one.

DBFAN
02-12-2009, 03:34 PM
I just feel that no matter what the fans say players should keep quiet. Reminds me of Tyler a couple of years ago calling everyone P*****S while he was on the free throw line. I know there used to be a youtube clip of it

DBFAN
02-12-2009, 03:38 PM
And can you imagine the things that have been said to Duke over the last several years, by entire crowds, and individuals, but I can not recall one of our players actually going to the crowd and yelling at them. I just do not feel like giving sympathy to any other player or team after what players like JJ had to endure.

roywhite
02-12-2009, 03:40 PM
I just feel that no matter what the fans say players should keep quiet. Reminds me of Tyler a couple of years ago calling everyone P*****S while he was on the free throw line. I know there used to be a youtube clip of it

Agree. Remember it was this time last year when Duke beat the Heels at the Smith Center. It was awfully quiet in the last minute of the game, and one could hear Coach K very distinctly even on the telecast, "Jon, Greg, just walk off; no celebrating, no celebrating." One of the best memories of last season, both the victory in the Dean Dome and hearing that said.

Spret42
02-12-2009, 03:58 PM
And can you imagine the things that have been said to Duke over the last several years, by entire crowds, and individuals, but I can not recall one of our players actually going to the crowd and yelling at them. I just do not feel like giving sympathy to any other player or team after what players like JJ had to endure.

Isn't this kind of a chicken or the egg argument? It goes back a long way with the interaction between players and fans. It could be argued JJ put up with stuff because the Crazies have been all over people for years before he got there?

Respectfully, at some point in college athletics, especially in basketball, student bodies decided to make themselves part of the show. My father personally can't stand it. He always mumbles, "support your squad, let the other guy play his game, he earned that right when he earned his spot on the floor."

A few years ago the Notre Dame student body yelled something at the UConn point guard, Kalid El-Amin if I remember correctly. I asked my father-in-law, an alumnus, about it. He simply said, "that isn't the Notre Dame I went to."

Biscuit
02-12-2009, 03:59 PM
And can you imagine the things that have been said to Duke over the last several years, by entire crowds, and individuals, but I can not recall one of our players actually going to the crowd and yelling at them. I just do not feel like giving sympathy to any other player or team after what players like JJ had to endure.

So because JJ had to endure a lot of terrible stuff from fans, it's OK to accuse Ty Lawson of a DUI even though he didn't get one, or anything remotely close to as bad as one?

You're entitled to feel that way ... but if you do, you should probably think twice next time you judge Maryland fans or any other ACC fans for what you deem to be "classless."

Not trying to make a mountain out of a molehill, and it doesn't make Ty's response totally justified ... but the Crazies were in the wrong on this one.

Fish80
02-12-2009, 04:01 PM
They stopped him, he blew a number well below the legal limit, but they had to cite him for something since he was underage. The charge, essentially, is underage drinking. Something I think every one of us did. A DUI is a totally different animal- it stays with you the rest of your life, and carries a sort of "scarlet letter" in our culture.

The difference is enormous. Disregarding it was poor form to say the least. I'm not sure "F--- You" was the proper response, but it was an understandable one. You won't find a bigger light-blue-wearing defender of the Crazies than me, but they deserved to be called out on this one.

Oh I agree, it's understandable for him to yell at the crowd. Where we may disagree is on the appropriateness of the DUI chant. I don't find that to be inappropriate. But that's just me.

I appreciate your posts and your willingness to come into DBR dressed in "light-blue". It's all good fun. ;)

weezie
02-12-2009, 04:04 PM
I'm guessing Redick has done similar things.


Aw geez, do you think he actually did do that? :( It's one thing to hold up the arms at the end of the shot, but do you really think he lowered himself to the cursing?

rsvman
02-12-2009, 04:06 PM
If it had been Singler yelling that to the UNC fans at the Dean Dome, how would the press have spun it? That, to me, is the real question.

Seth Davis makes it sound like it's a GOOD thing that Lawson yelled "F you" to the crowd. In what world is that good? In what universe is that laudable?

If Singler had done it, they probably would have villified him.

Biscuit
02-12-2009, 04:08 PM
Oh I agree, it's understandable for him to yell at the crowd. Where we may disagree is on the appropriateness of the DUI chant. I don't find that to be inappropriate. But that's just me.

I appreciate your posts and your willingness to come into DBR dressed in "light-blue". It's all good fun. ;)

Thanks. Yeah, the DUI thing did bother me quite a bit. I just imagined the difference between having to tell someone I got an underage drinking citation and having to tell them I got a DUI. I'd be pretty peeved if someone confused the former with the latter.

Thanks for having me. You guys have a good thing going here- there's good discussion at IC and TDD also, but it gets shouted down by mindless banter too much for my liking.

I knew enough to stay away from here until this afternoon, though. Mornings after are usually the worst.

DBFAN
02-12-2009, 04:35 PM
I also agree about Seth Davis making it a "Heroic" thing Ty did, any and I mean any Duke player doing that, and they would not even talk about the game, but rather how Duke is "rude, classless, and full of Self entitlement",

devil84
02-12-2009, 04:38 PM
Yes, the DUI cheer was tasteless. And factually incorrect, though much easier to chant than the actual charge.

A player yelling profanities to the crowd is equally tasteless.

However, there is a big difference between students (who pay to go to the school and collectively represent the university) and the scholarship athlete (who is an official representative of the school).

If any Duke player (JJ or anybody else) were guilty of that behavior, I would like to think the punishment would be swift and severe. And I would hope that such behavior would not be praised in the media.

jipops
02-12-2009, 04:48 PM
Agree. Remember it was this time last year when Duke beat the Heels at the Smith Center. It was awfully quiet in the last minute of the game, and one could hear Coach K very distinctly even on the telecast, "Jon, Greg, just walk off; no celebrating, no celebrating." One of the best memories of last season, both the victory in the Dean Dome and hearing that said.

That was a beautiful moment. And let's be clear. If any Duke player duplicates the actions of Ty Lawson, then there's a huge media outcry most likely resulting in a revised list of top 10 most hated Dukies on espn.com.

Biscuit
02-12-2009, 04:53 PM
Yes, the DUI cheer was tasteless. And factually incorrect, though much easier to chant than the actual charge.

A player yelling profanities to the crowd is equally tasteless.

However, there is a big difference between students (who pay to go to the school and collectively represent the university) and the scholarship athlete (who is an official representative of the school).

If any Duke player (JJ or anybody else) were guilty of that behavior, I would like to think the punishment would be swift and severe. And I would hope that such behavior would not be praised in the media.

The only thing I take issue with here is "equally." If Ty had said it into a microphone, or in front of a camera where his lips could be read, then I'd agree with you that they were equal.

I think you're seriously underestimating how bad it is to accuse someone of a DUI when they didn't get one, or anything near it. As I said before, DUI is a scarlet letter of sorts in our society, and now there's a bunch of casual fans who caught the game, heard the chant and think Ty got a DUI, when he did nothing of the sort. That's tremendously poor form.

Fish80
02-12-2009, 05:16 PM
The only thing I take issue with here is "equally." If Ty had said it into a microphone, or in front of a camera where his lips could be read, then I'd agree with you that they were equal.

I think you're seriously underestimating how bad it is to accuse someone of a DUI when they didn't get one, or anything near it. As I said before, DUI is a scarlet letter of sorts in our society, and now there's a bunch of casual fans who caught the game, heard the chant and think Ty got a DUI, when he did nothing of the sort. That's tremendously poor form.

But he did something of the sort. His charge was not just underage drinking, it was driving after consuming alcohol. He was driving under the influence.

All we're arguing about is how much influence. And the cynic in me thinks he might have been under more influence than we've been led to believe. Shocking, I know. :eek:

Dean had problems with alcohol and driving. Phil Ford had some problems with alcohol. Ala Abdelnaby, Bobby Hurley, Chris Duhon and others had some problems with alcohol. It's rampant throughout our society, not just with athletes.

keithg
02-12-2009, 06:40 PM
Dean had problems with alcohol and driving. Phil Ford had some problems with alcohol. Ala Abdelnaby, Bobby Hurley, Chris Duhon and others had some problems with alcohol. It's rampant throughout our society, not just with athletes.

Down forget JJ...who actually was convicted of a DUI!

Wander
02-12-2009, 06:51 PM
However, there is a big difference between students (who pay to go to the school and collectively represent the university) and the scholarship athlete (who is an official representative of the school).


I can't believe it took this long for someone to make this point. Thank you. Cursing at a student section isn't all the big a deal on the spectrum of evil, but as a scholarship athlete, it's something you should be responsible enough not to do. It's just stupid to try and justify it.

Wheat/"/"/"
02-12-2009, 07:38 PM
We don't know what was said to Ty from the crazies section, maybe somebody who was there can chime in, but it was not likely to be very nice and there could have been some really nasty things sent his way...especially late in thew game. Maybe not by the crowd, but an individual. The DUI chant would have pissed me off (oops!) if I was him and I, unfortunately, have a foul mouth at times myself and very well could have replied in kind. I'm working on being better.

And you guys know that Duke fans complaining about foul language is a little entertaining, considering the fearless leaders proclivity to use colorful language.

Ty shouldn't have done it, but sometimes emotions get the best of you and you just say to yourself, What the *&^%?

Another thing. In my message board experiences, any post that begins ,rails on, or ends on what is classy or classless, from either side, is usually pretty classless.

OMG...what did I just do.....:)

Diddy
02-12-2009, 07:50 PM
I used to be an Assistant District Attorney in Winston-Salem. Driving after consuming is referred too as a "Baby DUI" If he ever committs a DUI in the state of NC, this driving after consuming will count as a DUI for sentancing purposes.

Splitting hairs, but both sides are kinda right.

Diddy
02-12-2009, 08:07 PM
Now I see why unc is so successful. mike copeland is really the head coach not ole roy. ty lawson is just another punk point guard for the heels. I had rather lose as a Duke Blue Devil than win as unc classless university. GoDuke!

I love this sentiment, which is prevalent accross this board. (Sarcasm)

It is similiar to the basic thought that has been expressed that Duke would rather lose than:

Take one and dones with an eye on the pros.
Take kids who have some minor behavioral issues due to being raised in lousy circumstances.
etc.

Well folks, you are all getting your wish. We aren't winning. Not when it counts against the teams that matter.

And besides, you are all being facetious with that statement.

You don't really think we'll lose. You all think that the 'Duke Way" is superior. That taking hard working kids, who aren't as athletic as as more brash kids will ultimately be proven correct. Not for the last half Decade, it hasn't.

Sure our kids have yelled similiar things to fans. Our kids are just smarter. Laetner was widely acknowledged, including by the man himself, to antagonize opposing fans.

JJ would leave his hand in the air after a shot as he trotted down the court. He didn't raise his middle finger, but we ALL got his meaning.

Laetner was the type of guy to whisper bad words to opposing fans as he walked off the court. He wasn't stupid enough to yell it in front of a reporter. Or if he did, it wasn't reported on.

I think Seth, a former Dukie, may have included a farely routine occurrance at CIS in order to subtly take a dig at Ty.

Also, I once sat in a 1 hr lecture by Coach K while at Duke, and he dropped the F bomb upwards of 10 times. And the other words you can't say on the radio all made appearances (except for the C word, which would have been really hard to work into the meaning of the speech.).

Yeah, we all hate Ty. He is a jerk. He is probably the first college sports star to be a jerk.

Oh, and that thing he yelled? He wasn't talking trash. He was making a statement of fact. That thing he yelled, F-You? He was merely describing what he had just accomplished.

calltheobvious
02-12-2009, 08:12 PM
The only thing I take issue with here is "equally." If Ty had said it into a microphone, or in front of a camera where his lips could be read, then I'd agree with you that they were equal.

I think you're seriously underestimating how bad it is to accuse someone of a DUI when they didn't get one, or anything near it. As I said before, DUI is a scarlet letter of sorts in our society, and now there's a bunch of casual fans who caught the game, heard the chant and think Ty got a DUI, when he did nothing of the sort. That's tremendously poor form.

I think both acts are pretty reprehensible. I was extremely disappointed to hear that this cheer had been uttered (I watched in a bar), and I'm not at all interested in scoreboard analysis of which act was worse.

What I do find problematic is your contention that an act's wrongfulness is determined in whole or in part by whether people are looking. Do you really believe that Lawson's reported foul utterance would have been worse if, say, Heather Cox's mic had picked it up?

devildownunder
02-12-2009, 08:16 PM
So just to clarify in 1996, when the Crazies chanted "A-Hole" at McInnis or in past years when they have chanted "whiny b-" at players that was OK? Seems like those are just as bad as the F-You Lawson dropped.

They are. And as much as i absolutely cannot stand Carolina, you'll never hear me going on and on about how classless they or their fans are. The implication, of course, is they our program and fanbase are a paragon of classiness, and while I think Duke basketball has plenty to be proud of in and outside the program -- much more than most, actually -- putting yourself up on that kind of pedestal is both arrogant and foolhardy.

devildownunder
02-12-2009, 08:19 PM
Oh, and that thing he yelled? He wasn't talking trash. He was making a statement of fact. That thing he yelled, F-You? He was merely describing what he had just accomplished.


Well then, can we make fun of him for his poor grammar?

"Haha! Should've used past tense, you moron! Heels are stupid! *clap! clap! clap!-clap!-clap!"

devildownunder
02-12-2009, 08:26 PM
I don't really care about what they yell back and forth. What makes Carolina classless are the breakaway dunks when the shot clock is turned off when they're up by 10+.

A coach leaving his starters in when he's up 30 w/5 minutes to play is classless. But to my mind, if the players are in the game, they get to play. You shouldn't be asked to be on the floor not trying to perform. Now I know you don't have to dunk the ball to be playing well but, really, what is so awful about a celebratory dunk shot?

Honestly, everyone is so sensitive these days. If you lose, go away, practice and get better, instead of hanging around looking for something to complain about. It's not the opposition's job to make you feel better.

devildownunder
02-12-2009, 08:28 PM
Agree. Remember it was this time last year when Duke beat the Heels at the Smith Center. It was awfully quiet in the last minute of the game, and one could hear Coach K very distinctly even on the telecast, "Jon, Greg, just walk off; no celebrating, no celebrating." One of the best memories of last season, both the victory in the Dean Dome and hearing that said.


Why is it good not to celebrate?

Stray Gator
02-12-2009, 08:34 PM
Let's see...

Duke wins in the Dean Dome--where "Duck Fuke" shirts are proudly displayed--and Duke's players trot quietly off the court to the locker room.

Carolina wins in Cameron--where the students chant 'DUI" to get under the skin of a player who was, in fact, only charged with a "Baby DUI"--and the Carolina player taunts the crowd with obscenities.

Sounds about right. I wouldn't have it any other way. ;)

roywhite
02-12-2009, 08:39 PM
Let's see...

Duke wins in the Dean Dome--where "Duck Fuke" shirts are proudly displayed--and Duke's players trot quietly off the court to the locker room.

Carolina wins in Cameron--where the students chant 'DUI" to get under the skin of a player who was, in fact, only charged with a "Baby DUI"--and the Carolina player taunts the crowd with obscenities.

Sounds about right. I wouldn't have it any other way. ;)


Exactly. I still like the football player who scores a spectacular TD and then jogs over to the official, hands the ball over, and goes on to his own bench.

The best celebration is there for all to see....SCOREBOARD.

VAGentleman05
02-12-2009, 08:55 PM
I'm not here to defend Ty Lawson, but there is some irony in a fanbase whose primary cheers include the phrases "Go to Hell, Carolina, Go to Hell" and "Eat S--t." complaining about a player cursing at them. Both the "DUI' and "She Said No" chants last night were more public (heard by more people, probably audible on the telecast, etc.) than Lawson's profanity, and they are at least as troubling to me. Why not focus on the basketball game?

JRJOE
02-12-2009, 11:10 PM
Maybe Ty should have danced in his SPEEDO

dukemsu
02-12-2009, 11:24 PM
We don't know what was said to Ty from the crazies section, maybe somebody who was there can chime in, but it was not likely to be very nice and there could have been some really nasty things sent his way...especially late in thew game. Maybe not by the crowd, but an individual. The DUI chant would have pissed me off (oops!) if I was him and I, unfortunately, have a foul mouth at times myself and very well could have replied in kind. I'm working on being better.

And you guys know that Duke fans complaining about foul language is a little entertaining, considering the fearless leaders proclivity to use colorful language.

Ty shouldn't have done it, but sometimes emotions get the best of you and you just say to yourself, What the *&^%?

Another thing. In my message board experiences, any post that begins ,rails on, or ends on what is classy or classless, from either side, is usually pretty classless.

OMG...what did I just do.....:)

Whatever. There's something to be said for being the bigger man, smiling knowing you won, and leaving. Example from the pre-Izzone (last days of Heathcote, my undergrad experience). The student section chanting at Jalen Rose, who had been picked up by police in a crack house (Detroit police convieniently "lost" the arrest warrant), "don't snort that line" as Rose shot free throws icing a win over Michigan State. Rose simply walked past the student section laughing. No profanity, but a knowing smile and hit the door. And not too many people call Jalen Rose a paragon of class.

Ty played a magnificent second half. It would have been very easy for him to just smile and leave. Not impressed, sorry.

dukemsu

devildownunder
02-13-2009, 12:22 AM
Whatever. There's something to be said for being the bigger man, smiling knowing you won, and leaving. Example from the pre-Izzone (last days of Heathcote, my undergrad experience). The student section chanting at Jalen Rose, who had been picked up by police in a crack house (Detroit police convieniently "lost" the arrest warrant), "don't snort that line" as Rose shot free throws icing a win over Michigan State. Rose simply walked past the student section laughing. No profanity, but a knowing smile and hit the door. And not too many people call Jalen Rose a paragon of class.

Ty played a magnificent second half. It would have been very easy for him to just smile and leave. Not impressed, sorry.

dukemsu

Who's saying you should be impressed, I'm not. But I think showing up after a loss to whine about how much the winners lack class is, itself, not very classy and comes off as petty and overly sensitive. Of course, that is just my opinion. There isn't really a right or wrong in this. I'm chiming in because it seems like many people are just too sensitive about stuff like this these days. I mean, honestly, are you really a bigger man if you just say nothing? Sticking it in someone's face is one thing, celebrating your own success is something else though. I think enthusiasm and expression of joy should be encouraged, not berated.

Now as for Lawson, I think his actions were punkish but those who embrace this idea that his actions did not show class need to tread carefully, lest they show some hypocrisy.

Jim3k
02-13-2009, 01:45 AM
Seth Davis makes it sound like it's a GOOD thing that Lawson yelled "F you" to the crowd. In what world is that good? In what universe is that laudable?



I'm not sure I agree with this assessment of what Davis did. As I read his piece, it seemed fairly objective and factual. Lawson said what he said. Davis reported it.

How does that reflect on Davis's slant? It looks to me that he reported Lawson's behavior, even the fact that it was the last word. And it was Lawson's last word, not Davis's.

Who comes off looking small, petty, immature and boorish? Not the crazies and not Davis, who positioned himself as an objective reporter. Frankly, I think his column will do Lawson's reputation no good -- even harm.

As for the Crazies' chant; no one will remember that. They will remember Lawson's profanity. Roy should have said what K said the year before. "Just walk off."

Years ago (early 60's) State had a player who used to talk to the pre-Crazies. He was friendly and good-hearted. They treated him the same way. It was all in fun. I'm sorry the mutuality of fun has been lost.

Jim3k
02-13-2009, 02:00 AM
I'm not here to defend Ty Lawson, but there is some irony in a fanbase whose primary cheers include the phrases "Go to Hell, Carolina, Go to Hell" and "Eat S--t." complaining about a player cursing at them. Both the "DUI' and "She Said No" chants last night were more public (heard by more people, probably audible on the telecast, etc.) than Lawson's profanity, and they are at least as troubling to me. Why not focus on the basketball game?

As one who came to Duke long before the 'Eat S...' was added, I am in perfect agreement that it is out of line and should be halted. It goes too far.

As for the GTHC chant, that is part of the rivalry and has been since its beginning. It is a real school tradition. It's even part of the fight song, sung to all opponents. So it stays...forever. The Carolina people love it for that very reason. They say identical things to us. We love it when they do. :D

GTHC GTH!!!!

shotrocksplitter
02-13-2009, 02:24 AM
This thread is absolutely absurd. The problem is related most directly to the roles of the parties involved. I'll break it down.

FANS, especially the student sections: Their job is to get into the players' heads. Their goal is to be so ridiculously distracting that the opposing team is more concerned with the crowd than the game.

Part of that job is to dig up dirt - or anything that will affect the other team most.
So we yelled "Amanda said no" to Wayne, to remind him that his proposals have been rejected (twice!) by his girlfriend.
So we called Tyler babycakes and tugged our ears and reminded everyone that he travels EVERY TIME.
So we asked them about their draft prospects. So we reminded Ty that he's got a nasty habit of breaking the law while behind the wheel (three times so far). All of these behaviors are EXACTLY WHAT THE FANS SHOULD DO.

The question of taste related to where the line is that we don't cross (maryland doesn't seem to know that this line exists) and class comes into effect with our choice of language. We don't yell 'Bulls**t', we call "No! No! No!" and we don't do anything like "F**k you Paulus". The classless point is in the fight song, where we ask Carolina to eat poop, but that's just about it. Anything safe for TV is FINE.


PLAYERS: Their job is to act with two guiding principles.
1 - Pretend you can't hear.
2 - Act like you've been there before.

Ty's comments and UNC holding 4 fingers in the air are both classless because they break those two rules.


I'd like to point out, and here seems as good a place as any, that RoyWill is a [redacted]. I went over and took the athletic tape off the Duke logo on his chair at halftime, and by the next time I could see the chair, it was back in place. Does it really bother him that much to play us that he can't even touch the Duke logo? Seriously, wtf??

Spret42
02-13-2009, 08:05 AM
The "role of the parties involved" is your opinion. You decided to be a part of the show; you decide to act that way. That is your prerogative. But you don't also get to decide how the other guy is supposed to react to how you decided to conduct yourself.

That my friend is the height of youthful arrogance.

RelativeWays
02-13-2009, 08:06 AM
I think sports fandom has taken a nosedive towards the ignorant since the advent of the internet. Words like classless, thug and bush league are thrown around and are so amorphous depending on ones team loyalty that they have no meaning.

My issue with the DUI chant is because its hypocritical, we've had our own athletes get in trouble with underage drinking or drinking in general (I believe Thad Lewis and another football player were caught in chapel hill last year for underage drinking, not a proud moment). Thats just one of the things I wish the crazies would leave alone.

Spret42
02-13-2009, 08:13 AM
I think sports fandom has taken a nosedive towards the ignorant since the advent of the internet. Words like classless, thug and bush league are thrown around and are so amorphous depending on ones team loyalty that they have no meaning.

My issue with the DUI chant is because its hypocritical, we've had our own athletes get in trouble with underage drinking or drinking in general (I believe Thad Lewis and another football player were caught in chapel hill last year for underage drinking, not a proud moment). Thats just one of the things I wish the crazies would leave alone.

Just watch the game. Support your team and your classmates. Be as loud and as emotional and as enthusiastic as you can. Have enough class to let the other guy play his game. To me, that is real class.

It isn't classy to point out to people their mistakes in a public setting, especially when they are displaying the skills that came from hours of real hard work, the kind of hard work that one should respect.

I KNOW I will be ripped but that is how I feel.

Fish80
02-13-2009, 08:51 AM
I love this sentiment, which is prevalent accross this board. (Sarcasm)

It is similiar to the basic thought that has been expressed that Duke would rather lose than:

Take one and dones with an eye on the pros.
Take kids who have some minor behavioral issues due to being raised in lousy circumstances.
etc.

Well folks, you are all getting your wish. We aren't winning. Not when it counts against the teams that matter.

And besides, you are all being facetious with that statement.

You don't really think we'll lose. You all think that the 'Duke Way" is superior. That taking hard working kids, who aren't as athletic as as more brash kids will ultimately be proven correct. Not for the last half Decade, it hasn't.

Sure our kids have yelled similiar things to fans. Our kids are just smarter. Laetner was widely acknowledged, including by the man himself, to antagonize opposing fans.

JJ would leave his hand in the air after a shot as he trotted down the court. He didn't raise his middle finger, but we ALL got his meaning.

Laetner was the type of guy to whisper bad words to opposing fans as he walked off the court. He wasn't stupid enough to yell it in front of a reporter. Or if he did, it wasn't reported on.

I think Seth, a former Dukie, may have included a farely routine occurrance at CIS in order to subtly take a dig at Ty.

Also, I once sat in a 1 hr lecture by Coach K while at Duke, and he dropped the F bomb upwards of 10 times. And the other words you can't say on the radio all made appearances (except for the C word, which would have been really hard to work into the meaning of the speech.).

Yeah, we all hate Ty. He is a jerk. He is probably the first college sports star to be a jerk.

Oh, and that thing he yelled? He wasn't talking trash. He was making a statement of fact. That thing he yelled, F-You? He was merely describing what he had just accomplished.

Diddy,

Laettner has two t's.

You seem to be confused on a number of points. Your post reads as though you are a wearing the wrong shade of blue. Yet you intermingle you and we when referring to Duke fans. Which side of the fence are you on? Is your post a scathing self indictment?

Also, "F-you" has several meanings, none of which are "I just played a great second half and beat you on your home court".

If Glen Davis, a.k.a. baby Shaq, was cited for driving after consuming alcohol, would that be a Baby Baby DUI? ;)

SMO
02-13-2009, 09:28 AM
This thread has gotten really strange. Can we simplify this? Is it ever classy to shout "F--- you!" to anyone under any circumstance?

That is a rhetorical question and I think we all know it.

Biscuit
02-13-2009, 09:36 AM
This thread is absolutely absurd. The problem is related most directly to the roles of the parties involved. I'll break it down.

FANS, especially the student sections: Their job is to get into the players' heads. Their goal is to be so ridiculously distracting that the opposing team is more concerned with the crowd than the game.

Part of that job is to dig up dirt - or anything that will affect the other team most.
So we yelled "Amanda said no" to Wayne, to remind him that his proposals have been rejected (twice!) by his girlfriend.
So we called Tyler babycakes and tugged our ears and reminded everyone that he travels EVERY TIME.
So we asked them about their draft prospects. So we reminded Ty that he's got a nasty habit of breaking the law while behind the wheel (three times so far). All of these behaviors are EXACTLY WHAT THE FANS SHOULD DO.

The question of taste related to where the line is that we don't cross (maryland doesn't seem to know that this line exists) and class comes into effect with our choice of language. We don't yell 'Bulls**t', we call "No! No! No!" and we don't do anything like "F**k you Paulus". The classless point is in the fight song, where we ask Carolina to eat poop, but that's just about it. Anything safe for TV is FINE.


PLAYERS: Their job is to act with two guiding principles.
1 - Pretend you can't hear.
2 - Act like you've been there before.

Ty's comments and UNC holding 4 fingers in the air are both classless because they break those two rules.


I'd like to point out, and here seems as good a place as any, that RoyWill is a dick. I went over and took the athletic tape off the Duke logo on his chair at halftime, and by the next time I could see the chair, it was back in place. Does it really bother him that much to play us that he can't even touch the Duke logo? Seriously, wtf??

Really? Those are the only guiding principles for fans? So they can lie about criminal activity to get into players' heads, as long as they don't use foul language?

Before you answer the question, ask yourself how you would have felt if ACC crowds had chanted "Rapist" when Sheldon Williams shot free throws.

ClosetHurleyFan
02-13-2009, 10:16 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/seth_davis/02/12/carolina.duke/index.html

Key Quote:
When the horn sounded, Lawson raised his arms, smiled gleefully at the Duke student section behind him and delivered an emphatic parting shot. "F--- you!" he shouted.

Stay classy, Ty.


Oh god spare me. And the cameron crazies are always such a classy crowd, you know, when introducing opposing players you yell " Hi such and such, you suck". He is just throwing it back in your face after going undefeated in your house, deal with it.

I am so sick of the "classy this and classy that crap" that is bandied about on this board. A book could be written on the unclassy crap that has gone on in Cameron over the last 30 years or so.

And as one of your fellow fans points out, your players are not immune either, see the picture someone posted recently of JJ giving the shocker hand gesture to the MD crowd. The MD crowd deserved it mind you.....and maybe just maybe the crazies should just deal with it being thrown in their face on Wed night too........

-jk
02-13-2009, 10:31 AM
I think this thread has gone about far enough.

-jk