WBB Head Coach Search

[langdonfan]

Apparently, Joanne Boyle has turned down Florida's offer and is only considering Duke and Cal.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2007/04/06/SPGH9P3SS51.DTL

[chrishoke]

Excellent news. Come on down Joanne.

[Susan]

That's great news. Nice to see that schools like Florida don't get EVERYONE they want! I'm getting more and more excited about the idea of Boyle coaching at Duke.

[duke98]

That's great news. Nice to see that schools like Florida don't get EVERYONE they want! I'm getting more and more excited about the idea of Boyle coaching at Duke.

Me too. I'm still a little concerned that Duke only seems to be looking at two of its own -- Boyle and Katie Meier -- and not interviewing top-notch coaches like Andy Landers, Carolyn Peck, etc. I just think it looks a little bush league, and reflects a belief that we don't consider ourselves one of the elite women's basketball programs in the nation (without G), which we are.

It's going to be hard for this program to move forward without G. I think everyone has to be very conscious that the people who remain, and the people who've come through the program already, make Duke basketball what it is. Duke basketball is not Coach G, and vice versa -- she had the chance to make it that way, and sadly she turned it down.

But from everything I read about Boyle as a head coach, she's done wonderful things with the teams she's coached (Richmond, Cal). I remember her medical problems when she was an assistant at Duke and how strong she was at pulling through them, and how much everyone in the program rallied around her. Those are both really positive signs, in my eyes. Combined with her evident success as a head coach, I think Boyle would be a great choice for the program. (I just wish the search was a little broader and higher-reaching....)

[langdonfan]

I have to agree with you, duke98. The more I read about Joanne's accomplishments as a coach, the more excited I am becoming about her possibly taking over the program. I am, however, surprised that this doesn't seem to be a wide open nationwide search. On the day Coach G left, one reporter in the Durham area (Mark Armstrong, WTVD 11) qouted sources close to the program saying they hoped the search would "begin and end with Boyle." All indications so far seem to point to that being true.

Coach G turned Duke into one of the elite programs in women's college basketball. Why not go after someone like Landers, Peck, or Curt Miller at Bowling Green or Joe McKeown at George Washington? Seems far too limited to me. I am sure we will end up with an excellent coach in the end. I just hope Joanne is not the only excellent coach that Alleva considered...

[burnspbesq]

Me too. I'm still a little concerned that Duke only seems to be looking at two of its own -- Boyle and Katie Meier -- and not interviewing top-notch coaches like Andy Landers, Carolyn Peck, etc. I just think it looks a little bush league, and reflects a belief that we don't consider ourselves one of the elite women's basketball programs in the nation (without G), which we are.

I continue to be somewhat mystified by the high regard in which Carolyn Peck is held by many people. She won a NC at Purdue with players she inherited, and won it primarily because an arguably superior Duke team didn't rise to the occasion in the championship game. She didn't win in the WNBA, and she didn't win at Florida.

As for Andy Landers, let's just say that he passed his sell-by date about 15 years ago. He is a solid coach, but the idea of hiring someone who seemingly can't do any better than third in the SEC any more doesn't exactly send me into transports of joy.

[bludev03]

Wow! If Florida offered Geno 1.5-2 mil, how much did they offer Boyle?? Of course, Duke is going to lowball, so Boyle must LOVE duke to accept 400k, vs. 1.5-2 mil (if they offer her the same as they offered Geno)

[Susan]

Here's another Boyle article from today stating that she has not made a decision yet.

http://www.insidebayarea.com/sports/ci_5607489

Please come back to Duke, Joanne!

[dukelifer]

Wow! If Florida offered Geno 1.5-2 mil, how much did they offer Boyle?? Of course, Duke is going to lowball, so Boyle must LOVE duke to accept 400k, vs. 1.5-2 mil (if they offer her the same as they offered Geno)
Hmm Geno has 5 NC- Boyle has a few years of head coaching experience. I do not think you offer the two the same money.

[ikiru36]

Wow! If Florida offered Geno 1.5-2 mil, how much did they offer Boyle?? Of course, Duke is going to lowball, so Boyle must LOVE duke to accept 400k, vs. 1.5-2 mil (if they offer her the same as they offered Geno)

Nothing against Boyle, but why would you think she would be offered even half of what a school would offer Gino?

I'm a bit baffled by people considering $400k/year some kind of low-ball. At least by what I've read, that's more than Hatchell and Frese make and (a few famous outliers aside) would place a Women's Basketball coach near the top of her profession as regards base compensation. I genuinely hope that whomever we hire, that s/he is well and justly compensated, but I've seen little evidence that Duke isn't willing to pay a reasonable salary (comparing primarily with other top ACC Women's coaches).

[Kewlswim]

Hi,

We have had a bad year. I won't go into the number of ways. I will stick to WBB. The longer it took Coach G to say what she was going to do, the more I thought she would be a Dukie. I was wrong. The longer it is taking Coach Boyle to decide the more I think she will be a Dukie again. Get my point? Maybe I should just start thinking she is not coming for sure and then I won't get disappointed?

GO DUKE!

[Indoor66]

Why would we offer Boyle $400k - the same that Gail made after her run of ACC championships and NCAA success? Don't you have to earn it to get it? Is the whole world run like the NBA - on potential rather than performance? Doesn't make sense to me.

I am not opposed to Boyle or any other coach. I just favor a little sanity in the process.

[Duvall]

Why would we offer Boyle $400k - the same that Gail made after her run of ACC championships and NCAA success? Don't you have to earn it to get it? Is the whole world run like the NBA - on potential rather than performance?

The coaching job market works like every other job market - you're worth what others are willing to pay you. If Florida and Cal are willing to pay Boyle $400K, then that's the going rate.

[bludev03]

Hmm Geno has 5 NC- Boyle has a few years of head coaching experience. I do not think you offer the two the same money.

Texas is paying G 1 mil a year, w/ bonus incentives up to 1.3 mil. Geno is making 988k. Geno has 5 NC, a perfect 5-0 in NC games, and has coached 6 NPOY.

G has 0 NC and is 0-2 in NC games.

Obviously, salary offers aren't based on meritocracy, so Florida may have offered her the same or close to the amount they offered Geno....:confused:

[Duvall]

Texas is paying G 1 mil a year, w/ bonus incentives up to 1.3 mil. Geno is making 988k.

I would expect that to change in the not-too-distant future.

[duke98]

Wow! If Florida offered Geno 1.5-2 mil, how much did they offer Boyle?? Of course, Duke is going to lowball, so Boyle must LOVE duke to accept 400k, vs. 1.5-2 mil (if they offer her the same as they offered Geno)

I hadn't heard that Florida offered Geno (regardless of the ridiculous sum), but this underscores my point. If a school like Florida has the stones to offer its head coaching job to Geno Auriemma, why don't we?? Don't get me wrong -- I'd sooner see Ivory Latta coaching this team than that "other" Coach G(eno). But we are a national powerhouse in women's basketball, and this is a job that many coaches would kill to be offered. I think we need to act like it. Sometimes a little swagger can do a program good.

[FireOgilvie]

Sometimes a little swagger can do a program good.


Exactly. Look at Arkansas men's basketball... oh wait.



But seriously... I think you have a good point. You don't hire the big coach if you don't go after the big coach.

[shadycharacter]

I tend to disagree that Duke should first look toward a more proven women's BB coach. Suppose, we did, and Geno, for instance, came. Obviously he's set for life at Uconn if he wants to stay. So if he left there for Duke, why wouldn't he in turn get the wander lust again and leave Duke in a few years when, say, Pat Summit retires? Or for some other top job closer to where his roots are. See Bob Huggins.

I think Joanne Boyle would be a great catch, and is the, or one or the, ideal names with which to start. She played here, coached here. I hate to sound like a tarheel, but she's family. And I believe that if you can get the combination of a reasonably young head coach, who has already shown she can be very successful--and in addition there is the high likelihood that like Coach K, she will view returning to Duke as coming home and will want to stay until the end of her coaching career--then I think she's a five star choice.

I think that if we want her, and from everything I've heard, I do, then seems to me we should make this clear to her, and pursue her from the start.

[throatybeard]

Y'all, I'm going to rename this thread "WBB Head Coach Search" and redirect new threads on individual developments in that search into it.

[Susan]

Since we've gotten into a discussion about compensation for women's basketball coaches, you may find this article of some interest.

Women's coaches set for trip to bank (http://www.southbendtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070407/CollSports02/704070396/-1/SPORTS)

[bluedevil]

ikiru36, why do you keep implying that Hatchell and Frese only made $200-250,000 total per year when that was only their base salary? Goestenkors' base salary at Texas is $337,000 and she's guaranteed at least $1 million per year with an additional $300,000 in incentives. So that would mean Hatchell or Frese were guaranteed $600-750,000 per year plus $200,000 in incentives if they have the same ratio of base to total compensation and incentives. Goestenkors' total compensation from Duke was less than $530,000 and supposedly around $400,000, plus Gail only had 2 years left on a 4 year contract. You make it seem like Gail was appreciated and well paid by Duke when all the facts indicate that she was massively underpaid and didn't even get a lot of perks that teams would expect like plane flights to away games or anyone trying to market womens basketball and increase attendance.

[bluedevil]

Wow! If Florida offered Geno 1.5-2 mil, how much did they offer Boyle?? Of course, Duke is going to lowball, so Boyle must LOVE duke to accept 400k, vs. 1.5-2 mil (if they offer her the same as they offered Geno)

Where does it say Florida offered Geno $1.5-2 million? If they wanted Boyle they must have offered her a lot of money as well, so it could cost more to sign Boyle than Duke was willing to offer Gail.

Duke claims to have matched Texas' offer which was initially reported to be $800,000, so did they lose Gail over $200,000? Gail's getting $1-1.3 million/yr from Texas, Kim Mulkey Roberts just signed a 10 year contract supposedly for $1 million/yr from Baylor, and even the Iowa State coach signed a 12 year contract for about a $1 million/yr with incentives.

Cal paid Boyle more than $400,000 last year while G made less at Duke as an undefeated national coach of the year. What makes anyone think Duke would outbid Cal for Boyle? Boyle is about 44, the same age as Gail, so Duke will be taking a huge step down in terms of accomplishment even if they sign Boyle, but she seems to be the best candidate by far. Boyle is also unmarried so she may want to stay in the San Francisco Bay area like lots of womens basketball coaches, recruits, and fans. Why is Katie Meier or Gale Valley even being reported as candidates? Valley supposedly doesn't even want to be a head coach and Meier has been a loser at Miami and is getting worse, nobody else in the country wants to hire those 2 do they, why would the team ranked #1 most of last season even consider them?

Salaries are going up every day and that was obvious when Duke was negotiating with Gail. What if the only way Duke can sign Boyle or any other halfway decent coach is to pay more than the $800,000 they were willing to offer national coach of the year G? What will that say about the competence of Alleva or Brodhead or anyone that said Duke shouldn't pay for the best coach in the nation? Pay more, get less? Is that good leadership or stupidity?

[ikiru36]

ikiru36, why do you keep implying that Hatchell and Frese only made $200-250,000 total per year when that was only their base salary? Goestenkors' base salary at Texas is $337,000 and she's guaranteed at least $1 million per year with an additional $300,000 in incentives. So that would mean Hatchell or Frese were guaranteed $600-750,000 per year plus $200,000 in incentives if they have the same ratio of base to total compensation and incentives. Goestenkors' total compensation from Duke was less than $530,000 and supposedly around $400,000, she was the 5th or 6th highest paid coach at Duke and paid less than half what an assistant coach made. Plus Gail only had 2 years left on a 4 year contract compared to the 5 year contracts that Franks and Roof signed that paid them more for losing every game for 2 straight years before they got raises, contract extensions, and guarantees. You make it seem like Gail was appreciated and well paid by Duke when all the facts indicate that she was massively underpaid and disrespected and didn't even get a lot of perks that teams would expect like plane flights to away games or anyone trying to market womens basketball and increase attendance. Gail even said herself that she left because of the PEOPLE at Duke, who was she talking about and why would she say that?

bd, i'm just trying to keep it to real facts and not conjecture. i also think that comparisons with things other than WBB tend to have more to do with ax grinding against the other program (Duke Football) rather than addressing what is fair to have paid Gail.

for one, i'll trust gail's own words re: what she was offered by Duke as well as her reasons for leaving (from this article (http://www.heraldsun.com/sports/18-836572.cfm):

"This certainly isn't about money," the former Duke coach said after receiving a warm welcome. "It's about the people and the challenge. I feel like we have the best to offer in the country. ... Quite honestly, it was the people. I wanted to be surrounded by these great people."

"Before I entered into discussions with the University of Texas, athletics director Joe Alleva and Duke's administration approached me with a contract that was more than fair and addressed all of the issues I felt were important to the continued success of the women's basketball program," Goestenkors said in a prepared statement.

"During my time at Duke, I've grown so much as a coach and as a person. I've reached a point in my life that I am looking for a change and new challenges. The University of Texas affords me that opportunity."

Goestenkors elaborated on her decision later Thursday evening, repeatedly coming back to the challenge of the Longhorns' job.

"That's really what it was," she said. "A lot of people think financial and that wasn't the case at all. I just felt like it was the time in my life I needed a new challenge. This just afforded me an unbelievable opportunity -- it's going to be a big challenge, but it's also very exciting to me, as well."

#1 She never said that she left because of the people at Duke, she said that she was drawn to being around the people at Texas. Now, I admit, this implies a preference for Texas as regards its "people" at present, and I wouldn't be shocked if it pertained partly to her overall relationship with Alleva. But that is a far cry from the implication of your rephrasing it as "she left because of the people at Duke."

It also kind of undercuts your derision of Duke's financial offers to her. If she hated Duke's "people" so much, would Duke then have had to pay her twice her market value to keep her around?

#2 As Gail herself states, there are a multitude of factors which led her to Texas. "I've reached a point in my life that I am looking for a change and new challenges. That's really what it was," she said. "A lot of people think financial and that wasn't the case at all. I just felt like it was the time in my life I needed a new challenge. This just afforded me an unbelievable opportunity -- it's going to be a big challenge, but it's also very exciting to me, as well."

Well, perhaps Duke could and should have been more creative and figured out a way for Gail to address her desire for change and new challenges, while remaining at Duke. That, I will grant. I also admit that, not knowing exactly what Duke offered her as regards compensation, perhaps more could have been offered (though all indications I've seen describe a good faith, if unsuccessful effort). Finally, perhaps, Gail may have had some dissatisfactions with aspects of her and her program's treatment by Duke.

You state that "all the facts indicate that she was massively underpaid and disrespected and didn't even get a lot of perks that teams would expect like plane flights to away games or anyone trying to market womens basketball and increase attendance." I still do not see the validity of your "massively underpaid" claim (if you have the specific figures for Gail's total compensation at Duke as compared with the actual total compensation figures for Frese and Hatchell, and she was being payed less at all, I would agree that she was presently underpaid, though if you want to claim "massively," it better be a marked difference).

As for the plane flights, what I've seen referenced is that "Duke does not charter flights to all games, but at UT, that type of system is already a fixture." This again seems a bit different than your claim that Duke wouldn't provide what other teams would expect, like plane flights to away games.

Basically, every claim you make has involved cherry picking for only the negative about Duke, while frequently distorting facts as well. Do I think that Duke demonstrated that it was willing to elevate Duke Women's basketball to the status of a revenue sport, even though it is not (except at a few national power, large state schools)? Yes, actually. What other non-revenue sport is allowed to lose $2 million/year, then when it's coach asks for a raise, in the second year of her four year contract, the coach is then offered a dramatic increase? Just Women's Basketball, and in this case, rightfully so, I believe.

As for the marketing issue, while Duke's athletics department could likely have provided more support in this regard, would that have increased attendance and profits enough to offset the additional costs. I'd be willing to find out, but I don't really know, and I do know that Duke is in a much different position than a state school with an enormous Alumni and fan base, immensely popular and highly profitable football program, and a large, profitable athletic arena (not alot of corporate boxes in Cameron and half the attendance capacity of many arenas). Oh yeah, and not otherwise berating her for the lack of it, but a National Championship (for a year, being able to say, we're #1, defending National Champs!) really markets itself a bit, whereas a string of 30 win seasons, ending in heartbreaking losses doesn't work quite as well as a simple T-shirt slogan.

[BTW, the Duke football program which you attack (and which many of us have mixed feelings about and feel has been poorly managed) is losing a similar amount as Duke Women's BB despite having dramatically higher costs. If that program could generate even a modicum of success, that would actually be the BEST thing for Duke women's basketball and all the other non-revenue sports.]

[Indoor66]

Maybe Gail wanted change in her life situation. She has gone through a divorce and has had frustrating endings to several seasons. Maybe the issues involved involve Gail more than they involve Duke. Taking her statement in GoDuke.com at face value (which I have no reason not to do), it would appear to me that Gail was suffering from some personal issues and decided on a change in her life. Why do some presume that Duke, institution and individuals collectively, failed to do something to keep Gail? Can we never believe that anyone made their own decision and that decision was to leave Duke? That seems, to me, somewhat naive and more that a little narcissistic.

[Kewlswim]

Maybe Gail wanted change in her life situation. She has gone through a divorce and has had frustrating endings to several seasons. Maybe the issues involved involve Gail more than they involve Duke. Taking her statement in GoDuke.com at face value (which I have no reason not to do), it would appear to me that Gail was suffering from some personal issues and decided on a change in her life. Why do some presume that Duke, institution and individuals collectively, failed to do something to keep Gail? Can we never believe that anyone made their own decision and that decision was to leave Duke? That seems, to me, somewhat naive and more that a little narcissistic.

Hi,

I agree. We oftlen look for intrigue at every corner. Perhaps things are more transparent than we give them credit for.

GO DUKE!

[throatybeard]

somewhat naive and more than a little narcissistic.

Well, now don't get all reasonable like that. That heading probably covers 80% of what is said on sports bulletin boards...

[Indoor66]

Hi,

I agree. We oftlen look for intrigue at every corner. Perhaps things are more transparent than we give them credit for.

GO DUKE!

Maybe like Occam's razor? You know, lex parsimoniae.

[MChambers]

Maybe Gail wanted change in her life situation. She has gone through a divorce and has had frustrating endings to several seasons. Maybe the issues involved involve Gail more than they involve Duke. Taking her statement in GoDuke.com at face value (which I have no reason not to do), it would appear to me that Gail was suffering from some personal issues and decided on a change in her life. Why do some presume that Duke, institution and individuals collectively, failed to do something to keep Gail? Can we never believe that anyone made their own decision and that decision was to leave Duke? That seems, to me, somewhat naive and more that a little narcissistic.

Boy, do I agree with this post. I really think the change in life situation is the most logical way to look at this. Of course, it is also the most positive way to look at it as a Duke fan.

[robc]

Two quick things:

1. Those who recognize my name will know that I have access to a lot of information. Essentially, Gail's decision to leave was a "perfect storm" situation. It was fueled partly because Texas was the one job she'd leave Duke for (tradition, total institutional support as a priority, ultra-competitive salary, best high school talent in the country, etc), and also fueled by what a lot of people have mentioned on this board (lack of institutional support, lack of vision from the administration, generally being nickel-and-dimed). They key to getting a successor is making sure to allow a coach to be in an environment where they feel fully supported and compensated appropriately.

2. Let me address a few names brought up on this board:

Carolyn Peck: aside from winning the one NC (with players she inherited), Peck's career has been on the downside in recent years. Her ability to recruit has been mediocre at best.

Andy Landers: if people get on Gail for underachieving, Landers is the king of underachieving with great talent. The sleazy (but not illegal) move he made in snatching away Tasha Humphrey from Duke doesn't exactly leave me with warm feelings about the possibility of him as a coach at Duke. Beyond how good a coach is, they have to be the right fit for Duke. That leads to Joanne Boyle...

Boyle: The fact that Joanne was an alum is an important factor, but not the most important one. Otherwise I'd have Katie Meier on the same level. Joanne's experience as a coach, as a recruiter with east coast connections, and as someone who has succeeded at every stop. There's no question that she's not as accomplished as Gail and many, many other coaches. But this is a situation where the fit is perfect.

If she turns Duke down, then it will be time to cast the net wider.

[JBDuke]

Two quick things:

1. Those who recognize my name will know that I have access to a lot of information. Essentially, Gail's decision to leave was a "perfect storm" situation. It was fueled partly because Texas was the one job she'd leave Duke for (tradition, total institutional support as a priority, ultra-competitive salary, best high school talent in the country, etc), and also fueled by what a lot of people have mentioned on this board (lack of institutional support, lack of vision from the administration, generally being nickel-and-dimed). They key to getting a successor is making sure to allow a coach to be in an environment where they feel fully supported and compensated appropriately.

2. Let me address a few names brought up on this board:

Carolyn Peck: aside from winning the one NC (with players she inherited), Peck's career has been on the downside in recent years. Her ability to recruit has been mediocre at best.

Andy Landers: if people get on Gail for underachieving, Landers is the king of underachieving with great talent. The sleazy (but not illegal) move he made in snatching away Tasha Humphrey from Duke doesn't exactly leave me with warm feelings about the possibility of him as a coach at Duke. Beyond how good a coach is, they have to be the right fit for Duke. That leads to Joanne Boyle...

Boyle: The fact that Joanne was an alum is an important factor, but not the most important one. Otherwise I'd have Katie Meier on the same level. Joanne's experience as a coach, as a recruiter with east coast connections, and as someone who has succeeded at every stop. There's no question that she's not as accomplished as Gail and many, many other coaches. But this is a situation where the fit is perfect.

If she turns Duke down, then it will be time to cast the net wider.

Thanks for chiming in Rob! Figures you would have some of the best info out there on the whole Coach G situation. I really hope the Boyle deal comes together - I'd love to see her back in Cameron.

[Bluedog]

[BTW, the Duke football program which you attack (and which many of us have mixed feelings about and feel has been poorly managed) is losing a similar amount as Duke Women's BB despite having dramatically higher costs. If that program could generate even a modicum of success, that would actually be the BEST thing for Duke women's basketball and all the other non-revenue sports.]

Can you provide a source that says Duke football loses money? I don't think you are lying, but I would like to see it because according to 2000 figures (http://dukenews.duke.edu/2000/10/titleixo20.html), "football generated $8.2 million and spent $5.8 million." It's hard for me to believe there has been a 4 million swing in the negative direction in 7 years, but I guess it's possible. 2000 was also in the middle of a horrid 23 game-losing streak, so it's not like the team was any good that year. For comparison, that year "Men's basketball earned the most for the university, with revenues of $7.8 million and expenses of $2.9 million. Women's basketball produced $124,905 in revenue and spent $1.2 million." Other interesting figures (although admittedly old): "Overall, the university spent $26.4 million on athletics, not including interest and capital expenses. Overall income was $29.3 million. Men's teams generated nearly all the revenue directly attributable to specific teams: 99.2 percent of $16,163,394 [...]The report said Duke spent $611,872 on athletic recruiting last year, with 72.9 percent spent on men's teams and 27.1 percent spent on women's teams."

[Highlander]

Duke98 -My only concern about casting a wide net is that we may end up with our 3rd, 4th, or 5th choice. If we're not careful in who we approach, eventually it starts to look like no one wants the job (See NC State last year or UNC after Bill Guthridge).

I think we have to put together a list of who we want AND who we think would be interested in the job. I agree with your point that Duke's earned the right to aim high for our new coach, and that the 'list' could include more than just family. However, I also think we have to proceed with caution with that list to avoid overstepping our bounds.

In this case, it sounds like our ideal candidate is Boyle, and she happens to be an alumnist. I like the idea that we made up our mind quickly and went after one coach saying "you're the one we want." I just hope it works...

[Duvall]

Boyle: The fact that Joanne was an alum is an important factor, but not the most important one. Otherwise I'd have Katie Meier on the same level. Joanne's experience as a coach, as a recruiter with east coast connections, and as someone who has succeeded at every stop. There's no question that she's not as accomplished as Gail and many, many other coaches. But this is a situation where the fit is perfect.

If she turns Duke down, then it will be time to cast the net wider.

Do you know if Boyle has been officially offered the job?

[b&l]

We've been following (and attending) Duke women's basketball games for more than fifteen years now. We've experienced how Coach G brought the program to near the top. But only near. Her leaving introduces a very real question, whether school officials want Duke to be at the top, nationally, in a few sports, or whether, on the other hand, a resignation is setting in that smaller universities will find it increasingly difficult to impossible to compete with huge state schools (and all their alumni support and resources). In large team sports such as football, Duke seems to already have hit this divide between the big powerhouse schools and those too small to be in the mix. But in small team sports like basketball, there may be justified hopes of staying fully in the top echelons.

If Duke officials (including president and trustees) really want the women's basketball program to be a perennial final four team, they are going to pull out all stops and get a coach who has made it to the top. For example, a Brenda Frese. Otherwise, if there is not such commitment to the future of the program, why not just get some fascinating new phenom out there, maybe someone from a lower division or small conference. The bottomline will be, anyway, far from the Duke campus. It will be the future recruits who determine Duke's women's basketball future. If the best players available perceive Duke's commitment as so-so, mediocre, tentative, few will come to Durham to play. In today's women's college hoops world there are maybe ten, at most twenty programs in the country that are attractive to most talented recruits. The other schools may get the occasional star, but not a full supporting cast of five or six top players. If Duke's top officials want a marquee women's basketball program, they are going to have to go out and get a proven winner, someone with credentials flashy enough to catch the attention of all recruits, their families and h.s. coaches. Anything short of that is just going to be a muddling through future with more wishing and hoping than guarenteed success.

[Kewlswim]

We've been following (and attending) Duke women's basketball games for more than fifteen years now. We've experienced how Coach G brought the program to near the top. But only near. Her leaving introduces a very real question, whether school officials want Duke to be at the top, nationally, in a few sports, or whether, on the other hand, a resignation is setting in that smaller universities will find it increasingly difficult to impossible to compete with huge state schools (and all their alumni support and resources). In large team sports such as football, Duke seems to already have hit this divide between the big powerhouse schools and those too small to be in the mix. But in small team sports like basketball, there may be justified hopes of staying fully in the top echelons.

If Duke officials (including president and trustees) really want the women's basketball program to be a perennial final four team, they are going to pull out all stops and get a coach who has made it to the top. For example, a Brenda Frese. Otherwise, if there is not such commitment to the future of the program, why not just get some fascinating new phenom out there, maybe someone from a lower division or small conference. The bottomline will be, anyway, far from the Duke campus. It will be the future recruits who determine Duke's women's basketball future. If the best players available perceive Duke's commitment as so-so, mediocre, tentative, few will come to Durham to play. In today's women's college hoops world there are maybe ten, at most twenty programs in the country that are attractive to most talented recruits. The other schools may get the occasional star, but not a full supporting cast of five or six top players. If Duke's top officials want a marquee women's basketball program, they are going to have to go out and get a proven winner, someone with credentials flashy enough to catch the attention of all recruits, their families and h.s. coaches. Anything short of that is just going to be a muddling through future with more wishing and hoping than guarenteed success.

Hi,

Why is Coach Frese from Maryland a better fit than a long-time Blue Devil Coach Boyle? Just because she has a NC? If Coach Boyle had what Coach G had maybe she would have a national championship banner at Cal? I want to know how anyone knows, via some sort of documentation not conjecture, that the administration at Duke does not want to have a winning women's basketball team? In football, we have Coach Roof as being indicative of being "happy" with continued mediocraty or perhaps worse. In baseball, it appears, we have turned a corner.

GO DUKE!

[killerleft]

Yeah! Good thing Coach K was such a proven success - not!

[ikiru36]

Can you provide a source that says Duke football loses money? I don't think you are lying, but I would like to see it because according to 2000 figures (http://dukenews.duke.edu/2000/10/titleixo20.html), "football generated $8.2 million and spent $5.8 million." It's hard for me to believe there has been a 4 million swing in the negative direction in 7 years, but I guess it's possible. 2000 was also in the middle of a horrid 23 game-losing streak, so it's not like the team was any good that year. For comparison, that year "Men's basketball earned the most for the university, with revenues of $7.8 million and expenses of $2.9 million. Women's basketball produced $124,905 in revenue and spent $1.2 million." Other interesting figures (although admittedly old): "Overall, the university spent $26.4 million on athletics, not including interest and capital expenses. Overall income was $29.3 million. Men's teams generated nearly all the revenue directly attributable to specific teams: 99.2 percent of $16,163,394 [...]The report said Duke spent $611,872 on athletic recruiting last year, with 72.9 percent spent on men's teams and 27.1 percent spent on women's teams."

Thanks for the follow-up question Bluedog. In all honesty, on this point I'm simply quoting the figure bandied about by those attacking the football program. The $2 million loss seems believable to me, given your own figures, since we've probably increased coaching salaries and the quality of facilities since then, while probably not increasing revenues much. But I'd be glad to be corrected if someone else has a source for current figures.

In any event, the point I was addressing when bringing up the Football revenues was that any withdrawal of support from Football or Men's Basketball was just as likely to harm Women's Basketball as help, since it is, with rare exception, only these two programs which are able to create substantial revenues (and thereby allow increased funding for all other non-revenue sports.) That's my understanding of the general math, anyways.

Go Duke!!!!!!!!! Go Devils!!!!!!!!!! GTHCGTH!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kewlswim]

Yeah! Good thing Coach K was such a proven success - not!

Hi,

What post was this remark meant to be attributed to? I agree, Coach K was not a success at first. I am very much in the Coach Boyle corner, I think she has a good track record and would be a good fit. If we were going to go after Coach Frese, I figure we mind as well go after Tara Vandeveer, she has a great coaching record and things have not been all rosey lately at Stanford--early exits in the tourney, unbelievably have alums groubling after all she has done for that program.

GO DUKE!

[ikiru36]

We've been following (and attending) Duke women's basketball games for more than fifteen years now. We've experienced how Coach G brought the program to near the top. But only near. Her leaving introduces a very real question, whether school officials want Duke to be at the top, nationally, in a few sports, or whether, on the other hand, a resignation is setting in that smaller universities will find it increasingly difficult to impossible to compete with huge state schools (and all their alumni support and resources). In large team sports such as football, Duke seems to already have hit this divide between the big powerhouse schools and those too small to be in the mix. But in small team sports like basketball, there may be justified hopes of staying fully in the top echelons.

If Duke officials (including president and trustees) really want the women's basketball program to be a perennial final four team, they are going to pull out all stops and get a coach who has made it to the top. For example, a Brenda Frese. Otherwise, if there is not such commitment to the future of the program, why not just get some fascinating new phenom out there, maybe someone from a lower division or small conference. The bottomline will be, anyway, far from the Duke campus. It will be the future recruits who determine Duke's women's basketball future. If the best players available perceive Duke's commitment as so-so, mediocre, tentative, few will come to Durham to play. In today's women's college hoops world there are maybe ten, at most twenty programs in the country that are attractive to most talented recruits. The other schools may get the occasional star, but not a full supporting cast of five or six top players. If Duke's top officials want a marquee women's basketball program, they are going to have to go out and get a proven winner, someone with credentials flashy enough to catch the attention of all recruits, their families and h.s. coaches. Anything short of that is just going to be a muddling through future with more wishing and hoping than guarenteed success.

Not sure how to reconcile this logic with Coach G's own success at building a Final Four contender at Duke over the past 15 years. She came to Duke with only an assistant coaching background of a team with 5 consecutive NCAA tournament appearances and 2 sweet sixteens.

By comparison (http://calbears.cstv.com/sports/w-baskbl/mtt/boyle_joanne00.html), "the season before Boyle's arrival in 1993-94, Duke compiled a 12-15 record and finished last in the Atlantic Coast Conference. Two seasons into her stint in Durham, N.C., the team notched 20-plus wins (22-9) for the first time in 10 years and advanced to the second round of the NCAA Tournament.

With Boyle on staff, Duke garnered eight straight NCAA Tournament berths, highlighted by appearances in the 1999 national championship game and the 2002 semifinals. The Blue Devils reached the 20-win plateau seven times, twice amassed at least 30 victories, were ranked in the top 10 nationally four straight years, grabbed four regular-season ACC championships and advanced to the 1998 NCAA Elite Eight and to the 2000 and 2001 NCAA Sweet 16."

And since then, as a head coach, she has turned two different losing programs into 20+ game winners and NCAA tourney qualifiers. Oh yeah, and she's a current Conference Coach of the Year in the Pac-10, and has recruited Top-10 overall talent and Top-15 recruiting classes (in addition to the amazing classes she was a part of recruiting while an Assistant Coach at Duke).

By all this I'm not saying Duke should focus solely on Boyle, but even your mention of Frese (whom I do like) seems odd given your other criteria. Have a look at Frese's resume when she arrived at MD a few years back and it's similar to Boyle's (except for less evidence of sustained success given only 3 years of Head Coaching experience and assistant coaching at a good but less successful program than Duke).

I agree that, even moreso than in Men's hoops, in Women's there is generally an upper tier of, say, 8-10 schools that garner the bulk of the top rated recruits and it is very good to be among that upper tier. Duke is firmly there at present and if we properly chose a young up and coming coach (which could be Boyle, at present, as Frese was 5 years ago and Coach G before that), we can stay there. Or it may be some other young coach other than Boyle, perhaps with a bit more Tourney success, but there is no "guaranteed success" besides Geno and Pat. Just interested who else you would consider a "guaranteed success" that would be a good fit for Duke (Anne Donovan?). Heck, even Frese and Maryland had a somewhat disappointing season this year, given all of their talent and expectations.

[killerleft]

I was answering post #34. I'm with you. Joanne Boyle seems to be a very good fit for the Duke program. I do, however, hope that our search is not limited to Coach Boyle.

I was alluding to the hiring of Coach K, which wouldn't have taken place if post #34's advice was taken.

I wonder if Goestenkors suggested Boyle for the job?

[Kewlswim]

I was answering post #34. I'm with you. Joanne Boyle seems to be a very good fit for the Duke program. I do, however, hope that our search is not limited to Coach Boyle.

I was alluding to the hiring of Coach K, which wouldn't have taken place if post #34's advice was taken.

I wonder if Goestenkors suggested Boyle for the job?


Hi,

Thanks for the post.

GO DUKE!

[gadzooks]

Can you provide a source that says Duke football loses money? I don't think you are lying, but I would like to see it because according to 2000 figures (http://dukenews.duke.edu/2000/10/titleixo20.html), "football generated $8.2 million and spent $5.8 million." It's hard for me to believe there has been a 4 million swing in the negative direction in 7 years, but I guess it's possible. 2000 was also in the middle of a horrid 23 game-losing streak, so it's not like the team was any good that year. For comparison, that year "Men's basketball earned the most for the university, with revenues of $7.8 million and expenses of $2.9 million. Women's basketball produced $124,905 in revenue and spent $1.2 million." Other interesting figures (although admittedly old): "Overall, the university spent $26.4 million on athletics, not including interest and capital expenses. Overall income was $29.3 million. Men's teams generated nearly all the revenue directly attributable to specific teams: 99.2 percent of $16,163,394 [...]The report said Duke spent $611,872 on athletic recruiting last year, with 72.9 percent spent on men's teams and 27.1 percent spent on women's teams."According to Duke's 2005-06 EADA report (to see it, go here (http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/search.asp) and search for Duke), in that year football spent $10,052,697 and made $8,381,452. I haven't the faintest clue what caused such a huge shift; it could be that they started doing the accounting differently, or maybe there was something new they started spening money on that they hadn't before. In any case, football does appear to now be losing money, for whatever that's worth.

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

Gosh, it's so hard to be patient!
Love, Ima

[feldspar]

A watched pot never boyles.
You're punny.

[watzone]

I am a bit antsy too. I really want our current young women to stay with the team. They need a coach!

[ikiru36]

According to Duke's 2005-06 EADA report (to see it, go here (http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/search.asp) and search for Duke), in that year football spent $10,052,697 and made $8,381,452. I haven't the faintest clue what caused such a huge shift; it could be that they started doing the accounting differently, or maybe there was something new they started spening money on that they hadn't before. In any case, football does appear to now be losing money, for whatever that's worth.

I'm not certain of this, but one factor is probably that the ACC did relatively poorly this year, bowl wise. If the split ACC revenue is a part of Duke's Football income then that would be a portion of the equation that can shift the profitability dramatically, even if Duke does not increase its spending. I'd be interested to know if this is the case.

[Checking out the site you quote (which is very cool, thanks!) re: Revenue/Expense figures, over 50% of all revenues ($28+ million) are "not allocated by gender and sport." I guess I'd want to know what that includes as there may be portions of that which could indirectly be attributable to the football program. Conversely, the expense ledger includes $17+ million in "not allocated" funds, which also might be indirectly attributable. Without knowing more about these numbers, it's difficult to fully assess the profitability of given programs.]

[Kewlswim]

I am a bit antsy too. I really want our current young women to stay with the team. They need a coach!


Hi,

Just go ahead and name Coach Boyle so we can all relax over the Spring and Summer. I'm really excited that she is the leading candidate.

GO DUKE!

[grossbus]

tick tock

tick tock

if we get to thursday with no boyle announcement, there will be no boyle announcement.

[Kewlswim]

tick tock

tick tock

if we get to thursday with no boyle announcement, there will be no boyle announcement.


Hi,

How do you know that Thursday is doomsday for Coach Boyle? Maybe (if she is coming) she wants to tell her team first that she is coming to Duke before they hear it in the papers? Maybe she needs to decide, let's say today or Wednesday, then fly back to California on Thursday, get her team together on Friday, fly back to Duke on Saturday and then make the announcement on a Monday (seem like these kinds of announcements don't happen on a Sunday)? Just curious. You might know something and my hypothesis is totally wrong.

GO DUKE!

[efudd]

Just curious ... with all the insiders that post to the board, who out there has actually gotten to know both Coach G and Joanne Boyle? How would you compare and contrast them? From what I've read here, Boyle seems to connect well with players. What's your best guess on her skills in recruiting? G turned herself into a brand name, like Geno and Summit. Boyle is not there yet. How do you think she will fare going after the Abby Waners (National Players of the Year)?

[shadycharacter]

Anyone have any info as to how her meetings went earlier this week with Duke administration?

[b&l]

Assuming Duke and Coach Boyle have reached an agreement, how does one best time the announcement? What's out there right now is (again) the Duke lacrosse decisions. Wouldn't want to time the mention of that chapter with announcing a new coach. Bad associations. Then there's the hottest story in women's hoops, Rutgers and Imus. Vivian is getting more media (and Rutgers) than even a Pat Summit could dream for. Anything next to this story is at best lackluster, sort of "oh, by the way...". So how and when would the announcement of the new Duke coach be handled? All things considered, certainly a challenge.

[chrishoke]

Our AD must GO!

[Kewlswim]

Our AD must GO!


Hi,

I don't doubt what you are saying. Do you have an article link you can post?

GO DUKE!

[Mike Corey]

RobC has reported it on his site, dwhoops.com (http://www.dwhoops.com).

Best of luck to Coach Boyle at Cal.

[Kewlswim]

RobC has reported it on his site, dwhoops.com (http://www.dwhoops.com).

Best of luck to Coach Boyle at Cal.


Hi,

I really felt she was the person to move the program forward. I have a friend who graduated from Cal who will be really happy to hear this news. Arghh.

GO DUKE!

[mgtr]

Why does everyone jump on the AD? Maybe the problem is higher up. Look how poorly he handled the lacrosse fiasco.

[VaDukie]

I'm not the biggest Alleva fan, but let's not rush to cut off his head after this. Sidney Lowe was State's 3rd or 4th choice and he ended up ok. Let's give whoever replaces G a chance to succeed.

[dukelifer]

Hi,

I really felt she was the person to move the program forward. I have a friend who graduated from Cal who will be really happy to hear this news. Arghh.

GO DUKE!

This is surprising at many levels- given her ties to Duke and the area. Clearly, she must not have liked what she heard and thus it sounds like WBB may not be a university priority. She, of course, has ties to Gail and perhaps they talked at length about Duke and the future. So if WBB is not perceived as a priority, Duke may have a tough time recruiting and retaining a top coach. The run of a top WBB may be over. What impact this has remains to be seen. A big question is whether players will ask to be released if stability does not come soon.

[2001dukechamps]

Since Boyle has declined our offer, who will be our next canidate(s) for the head coaching position?????

[Kewlswim]

I'm not the biggest Alleva fan, but let's not rush to cut off his head after this. Sidney Lowe was State's 3rd or 4th choice and he ended up ok. Let's give whoever replaces G a chance to succeed.


Hi,

I realize that maybe Alleva isn't the problem. Maybe Coach Boyle wanted to stay in California because she liked it there. I just thought she would be really good and help the program move along.

Thanks for putting it in perspective. The coach we get might be even better than Coach Boyle would have been.

GO DUKE!

[Kewlswim]

Since Boyle has declined our offer, who will be our next canidate(s) for the head coaching position?????


Hi,

I can't remember her name, but I think it might be the woman from Miami who used to be a Duke student too. Since this is a fan site and it is OK to be really out in left field, I would like Duke to speak with Tara Vandeveer from Stanford. I would like us to show some "swaggar" as someone else wrote and go after her.

GO DUKE!

[grossbus]

Hi,

I realize that maybe Alleva isn't the problem. Maybe Coach Boyle wanted to stay in California because she liked it there. I just thought she would be really good and help the program move along.

Thanks for putting it in perspective. The coach we get might be even better than Coach Boyle would have been.

GO DUKE!

horse hockey.

he IS the problem. be prepared for a big step down. think asst. coach somewhere. he is not going to get a proven head coach.

[VaDukie]

That wasn't particularly directed at you kewlswim, just for the board in general.

[GreatGator]

horse hockey.

he IS the problem. be prepared for a big step down. think asst. coach somewhere. he is not going to get a proven head coach.

I fear you are correct and we are becoming (have become) a program with a problem. I have zero confidence in JA.

[Kewlswim]

That wasn't particularly directed at you kewlswim, just for the board in general.


Hi,

I was going to say that if I can still give Coach Roof a chance, I can certainly give whomever we get as Women's Basketball Coach a chance. I do believe there needs to be some introspection done at the Duke athletics department. Why did Coach Boyle not want to return? Why did Coach G want to leave? There might be reasons outside the scope of the Athletics Department for what has transpired.

If, in fact, the AD is a part of the problem then maybe he would need to go too. I think there should be a group called together by the President to figure out what is going on and how to best move forward. I imagine that, for example, the ADs at many schools would like to work at Duke. If it turns out that part of the problem is that Coach K has too much say in the Department, well, there should be nobody above the institution because it can lead to the downfall of it. Perhaps a more independent AD would do all the athletics teams a lot of good. Then again, maybe everything is fine and a group doing a thorough investigation would find that to be the case.

GO DUKE!

[Duvall]

Why does everyone jump on the AD?

If it weren't for Joe Alleva, Duke wouldn't be looking for a women's basketball coach.

[DU82]

horse hockey.

he IS the problem. be prepared for a big step down. think asst. coach somewhere. he is not going to get a proven head coach.

When has Duke ever hired a "proven" head coach that has been successful? Wallace Wade, I guess, would qualify. Bill Foster. Are there any others? Coach K, Vic Bubas, Gail Goestenkors, Steve Spurrier (among relatively recent "major sports" coaches) were all on their first major job (Bubas and G in their first head coaching job of course, K previously at Army and Spurrier in the USFL don't qualify, in my mind, as major jobs.)

[chrishoke]

I'm not the biggest Alleva fan, but let's not rush to cut off his head after this. Sidney Lowe was State's 3rd or 4th choice and he ended up ok. Let's give whoever replaces G a chance to succeed.

Boyle was our Sidney Lowe. If he couldn't hire her, with all her ties to Duke, who will he be able to hire. I'm glad you are confident. I am NOT.

[DU82]

Hi,

I can't remember her name, but I think it might be the woman from Miami who used to be a Duke student too. Since this is a fan site and it is OK to be really out in left field, I would like Duke to speak with Tara Vandeveer from Stanford. I would like us to show some "swaggar" as someone else wrote and go after her.

GO DUKE!

Katie Meier is the current coach at Miami. It would be unusual to "steal" a head coach from a conference team. I believe OBrien at NCState, hired from BC, is only the second time that's happened (at least in the major sports of football and basketball.) I do think that "coming home" to her alma mater might be a reasonable exception to that, though.

[johnb]

Texas and California are great situations, UT and UC are great schools, and Austin and Berkeley are two of the very best places to live in the country. No shame in coming in second.

Let's move forward unless someone has some inside information.

[Kewlswim]

Hi,

If this had been the hiring of the women's tennis coach, I have to admit, I wouldn't have cared as much as I do about this. I am really sad, unhappy, shocked that we didn't get Coach Boyle to coach our WBB. Something is very wrong. Something is broken. Duke WBB should be one of the five or six best jobs in the nation, yet we lose our coach and can't get a coach from (no offense to Cal) a school that has no WBB tradition or least hasn't had one in many a year. This is just hard to believe. Furthermore, it appears that we aren't even interviewing the top coaches. Why aren't we asking to speak with Pat? Geno? Tara? Brenda? Let's get a top coach for a top program. arghhhh

Go Duke! (I am one sad Blue Devil fan today.)

[mgtr]

If it weren't for Joe Alleva, Duke wouldn't be looking for a women's basketball coach.

How, exactly, do you have this info? Do you believe the AD acts in a vacuum, or does he take orders from the President?

[chrishoke]

Because he is in charge of Duke Athletics.

[Kewlswim]

Hi,

Here you go:

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaw/news;_ylt=AjjcZHQbVxzsPMwu8KUnVPRMvrYF?slug=ap-california-boyle&prov=ap&type=lgns

GO DUKE!

[NYC Duke Fan]

How, exactly, do you have this info? Do you believe the AD acts in a vacuum, or does he take orders from the President?

Is it possible that Brodhead could be the problem? Forget his involvement when Coach K was interviewing with The Lakers, that was a no brainer.

Coming from Yale where big time athletics is not a big concern, could it be that Brodhead doesn't really care how the WBB program fares ?

I know that I will take heat for this suggestion, but is it at all conceivable that Coach K does not want a big time coach for WBB to take some of the spotlight away from his program ? The WBB program has been as successful as the men's in recent years and to some extent even a little birt more.

[chrishoke]

13 years at duke, 2 at Cal, yeah, I can understand why her loyalties are with Cal - and cal has such a long and storied women's BB tradition. This had nothing to do with our AD.

[Troublemaker]

Furthermore, it appears that we aren't even interviewing the top coaches. Why aren't we asking to speak with Pat? Geno? Tara? Brenda?

My take is we don't want to get laughed at.

[Kewlswim]

My take is we don't want to get laughed at.


Hi,

We can't get a coach with tons of Duke ties. We can't get a coach from a power program. What kind of coach do you think we can get? ughh

GO DUKE!

[Wander]

Let's just make Abby a head coach/team captain combo and be done with it.

[Kewlswim]

Hi,

My friend who is a Cal alum said he was very happy and surprised Coach Boyle stayed, since he is used to pretty much every Cal coach leaving when s/he gets an offer from another school. Great. Wow, Duke must be a great place to coach.

:-(

GO DUKE!

[Capn Poptart]

My hope is that the A.D. is prepared for the possibility that any coach could leave at any time, and has files thick with ideas for replacement candidates he's admired from afar. If not, why not?

So we'll see who he goes after. It might be Katie Meier. But remember, Coach G was a Purdue assistant whose resume Tom Butters said "stood out," and Coach K was coming off a losing season at Army.

This is a key hire for Alleva.

[dukie8]

Hi,

If this had been the hiring of the women's tennis coach, I have to admit, I wouldn't have cared as much as I do about this. I am really sad, unhappy, shocked that we didn't get Coach Boyle to coach our WBB. Something is very wrong. Something is broken. Duke WBB should be one of the five or six best jobs in the nation, yet we lose our coach and can't get a coach from (no offense to Cal) a school that has no WBB tradition or least hasn't had one in many a year. This is just hard to believe. Furthermore, it appears that we aren't even interviewing the top coaches. Why aren't we asking to speak with Pat? Geno? Tara? Brenda? Let's get a top coach for a top program. arghhhh

Go Duke! (I am one sad Blue Devil fan today.)

unc men's bb coach is a heck of a lot bigger job than duke's wbb coach and they recently had to go pretty far down their list before getting a recent head coach. even kentucky didn't get its first choice. everyone, take a deep breath, relax and see how it plays out.

[arnie]

Let's not rush to cut Alleva's head off??? What more does he need to do to get fired?? He is morally weak, incompetent and a disaster to our overall sports program. Forget the coaching mishires - the coverup of the Duke steroids scandal, lack of oversight of the lacrosse team and accompanying your son as he drives drunk after the lacrosse mess would be enough to lose a job as a dogcatcher.

[dukie8]

Let's not rush to cut Alleva's head off??? What more does he need to do to get fired?? He is morally weak, incompetent and a disaster to our overall sports program. Forget the coaching mishires - the coverup of the Duke steroids scandal, lack of oversight of the lacrosse team and accompanying your son as he drives drunk after the lacrosse mess would be enough to lose a job as a dogcatcher.


do you really believe that his son was the one driving the boat?

[Kewlswim]

unc men's bb coach is a heck of a lot bigger job than duke's wbb coach and they recently had to go pretty far down their list before getting a recent head coach. even kentucky didn't get its first choice. everyone, take a deep breath, relax and see how it plays out.


Hi,

OK. Maybe your right. I am glad you are here to keep me from the ledge. :-) I should be really happy because of the LAX news. I just wanted more good news today.

GO DUKE!

[arnie]

That has occurred to me - but to sacrifice your son because you were driving drunk would require "innovative thinking". That phrase does not describe our AD.

[Kewlswim]

My hope is that the A.D. is prepared for the possibility that any coach could leave at any time, and has files thick with ideas for replacement candidates he's admired from afar. If not, why not?

So we'll see who he goes after. It might be Katie Meier. But remember, Coach G was a Purdue assistant whose resume Tom Butters said "stood out," and Coach K was coming off a losing season at Army.

This is a key hire for Alleva.


Hi,

Dukie8 has some good points. MBB at UNC had a little trouble a while back getting a coach and that is a bigger and more prestigious job (not in my eyes though :D ) than the WBB position at Duke. I would love to read the resumes. I know that when I have hired, sometimes a resume stands out and an interview goes really well and I have put key people in positions where other more 'named' people didn't get the positions. I can only guess it works the same in the world of sports.

Here is to finding the next Coach G, but one that has does not get so stressed during big games. I wouldn't mind a coach with a little bit of a chip on her shoulder who will not let her kids lose--will them to victory. I would also, now that we are not going to get Coach Boyle, think it would be a good time to look at African-American coaches out there and give them a good shot at taking the position. I think a creative, dynamic, intelligent African-American woman with a chip on her shoulder (I say that about all coaches, I just seem to like coaches with a bit of a chip on the old shoulder--I wish our football team coach had one too) and a desire to win championships would make a good coach for Duke.

GO DUKE!

[Duvall]

Hi,

Dukie8 has some good points. MBB at UNC had a little trouble a while back getting a coach and that is a bigger and more prestigious job (not in my eyes though :D ) than the WBB position at Duke.

Yes, and that certainly ended well.

[Kewlswim]

Hi,

Don't forget Coach Boyle went to Florida to interview before interviewing at Duke. I would believe what she had to say a little more if she hadn't gone to interview at Florida. It seems she was looking for reasons to leave Cal and neither Florida nor Duke could come up with good enough reasons to do so.

GO DUKE!

[mgtr]

Wow, the reporter didn't say that it was all because of Alleva. Must be a lousy reporter, huh?
I have worked in a university environment, closely associated with both the President and the AD. I have seen how, frequently but not always, the AD is the handmaiden of the President. That is why I question whether all the blame can be properly laid at Alleva's doorstep.

[Kewlswim]

Wow, the reporter didn't say that it was all because of Alleva. Must be a lousy reporter, huh?
I have worked in a university environment, closely associated with both the President and the AD. I have seen how, frequently but not always, the AD is the handmaiden of the President. That is why I question whether all the blame can be properly laid at Alleva's doorstep.


Hi,

I just want to see heads role...:D

GO DUKE!

(I was trying to be a bit humorous in a time when we don't seem to have a lot of it.)

[hamlin27]

It's time to fire Alleva now.
Is anyone really surprised Boyle turned Duke down? Alleva let a masterful coach get away. It's only fitting the natural replacement turn him down as well.
Alleva proved after the Carl Franks hiring that he was a mistake at an AD hire, at best. Incompetent, at worst. It's obvious, by now, he may be even worse than once thought.
When will this insanity end? The women's basketball program has now jumped the shark because of this man. Duke administrators, please, don't carry it to the level of a Wake Forest or Louisiana Tech. FIRE HIM NOW!

[mgtr]

Hi,

I just want to see heads role...:D

GO DUKE!

(I was trying to be a bit humorous in a time when we don't seem to have a lot of it.)

I agree, but it seems we live in a world where heads seldom roll anymore. How often do you see on TV where somebody has pushed the wrong button, resulting in the wrong tape, or the wrong reporter, or the wrong weather screen. Do you think heads roll? I doubt it.

[Kewlswim]

Hi,

I don't know the WNBA coaches, but maybe we could find a coach there? With the number of women who want to play in the pro game now, maybe a coach with pro ties would be the way to go???

GO DUKE!

[dockfan]

I hate to bum people out, but I imagine that Joanne Boyle turning down the Duke job indicates that the AD didn't "step up to the plate" financially to draw her away from Cal. This likely means that after Boyle, there's no way they would pony up enough money to attract top younger head coaches who all recently signed extensions (McCallie at MSU, Staley at Temple, Rizzotti at Hartford).

So, the chances of getting any kind of "name" coach at this point are pretty much zilch. Either Duke turns to Katie Meier, or they will go after lower-profile head coaches or top young assistants with little or no head coaching experience.

Too bad we let Tia Jackson get away.......

It's hard to see how this situation is not depressing and somewhat embarrassing for anyone who follows Duke women's basketball or had any hopes of keeping Duke among the UConns and Tennessees of the women's basketball world.

[heyman25]

Why is noone mentioning Shannon Perry but me and what about the Oklahoma Coach rumor.

[Kewlswim]

I hate to bum people out, but I imagine that Joanne Boyle turning down the Duke job indicates that the AD didn't "step up to the plate" financially to draw her away from Cal. This likely means that after Boyle, there's no way they would pony up enough money to attract top younger head coaches who all recently signed extensions (McCallie at MSU, Staley at Temple, Rizzotti at Hartford).

So, the chances of getting any kind of "name" coach at this point are pretty much zilch. Either Duke turns to Katie Meier, or they will go after lower-profile head coaches or top young assistants with little or no head coaching experience.

Too bad we let Tia Jackson get away.......

It's hard to see how this situation is not depressing and somewhat embarrassing for anyone who follows Duke women's basketball or had any hopes of keeping Duke among the UConns and Tennessees of the women's basketball world.

Hi,

Oh well, in the last few years I've come to realize that being a Duke fan means a lot of heartache.

GO DUKE!

[dockfan]

#1 By all accounts, the initial search started and ended with Joanne Boyle - they didn't even consider other top college coaches or even WNBA coaches ahead of her.

#2 The fact that Boyle said no indicates that Duke didn't offer enough money, incentives, or respond to enough of her concerns (travel, facilities, etc.) to draw her away from Cal.

#3 If Boyle was the top choice, and they couldn't attract her (with all her Duke ties), I doubt the search committee would be able to attract any other top college head coach or pro head coach.

#4 Considering where Duke has been nationally over the last 5-7 years (right up there in terms of recruiting and Final Four appearances with UConn, Tennessee, and LSU; ahead of Maryland and UNC), for the program to settle for a low-profile head coach or even a top college assistant to replace Coach G would be monumentally embarrassing.

This is NOT like hiring an upstart from Army to get the men's team back to national prominence or hiring a rising star assistant from Purdue to get the women's team turned around. This is a top-five program with a top-five recruiting class and top-five talent for next season; a team that should have their sights on nothing less than a national title next season; a team that needs a coach prepared to lead a team to a Final Four or a national title in '07-'08.

[Kewlswim]

#1 By all accounts, the initial search started and ended with Joanne Boyle - they didn't even consider other top college coaches or even WNBA coaches ahead of her.

#2 The fact that Boyle said no indicates that Duke didn't offer enough money, incentives, or respond to enough of her concerns (travel, facilities, etc.) to draw her away from Cal.

#3 If Boyle was the top choice, and they couldn't attract her (with all her Duke ties), I doubt the search committee would be able to attract any other top college head coach or pro head coach.

#4 Considering where Duke has been nationally over the last 5-7 years (right up there in terms of recruiting and Final Four appearances with UConn, Tennessee, and LSU; ahead of Maryland and UNC), for the program to settle for a low-profile head coach or even a top college assistant to replace Coach G would be monumentally embarrassing.

This is NOT like hiring an upstart from Army to get the men's team back to national prominence or hiring a rising star assistant from Purdue to get the women's team turned around. This is a top-five program with a top-five recruiting class and top-five talent for next season; a team that should have their sights on nothing less than a national title next season; a team that needs a coach prepared to lead a team to a Final Four or a national title in '07-'08.


Hi,

I am curious as to how you know that there are no other candidates on the Duke "initial search" list? Maybe they are playing this very close to the vest? (Am I giving them too much credit?) Do you have to ask to speak with a WNBA coach the same way one does with a current college coach? Also, were there no other good coaches on Coach G's staff? Maybe Duke has its eye on one of those coaches and has been talking to her while interviewing Coach Boyle? Trying to stay positive.

GO DUKE! STAY SOME GOOD COACH, PLEASE!!

[godukerocks]

If it weren't for Joe Alleva, Duke wouldn't be looking for a women's basketball coach.

Well if we believe Coach G, it had nothing to do with Alleva, but with "her desire to move on to a new challenge" or something withing the context of those words. I'm mad at her for leaving, but I do believe what she said is true.

[grossbus]

"I can certainly give whomever we get as Women's Basketball Coach a chance."

i am too, but a proven head coach would mean a good opportunity to maintain our current high level, an asst. coach taking their first HC job would not. the women's program is not where it was the G came in, just like the men's program is not where it was when K came it. this is a top 5 program. you don't give a top 5 program to an asst. coach unless you are willing to accept at least several years of less success than we have had. you also run the risk that this person cannot do the job and then your top 5 program has become clemson.

[zingit]

The women's basketball program has now jumped the shark because of this man.

Geez, guys, I'm no fan of Alleva either and I wish Boyle had taken the job too, but let's not lose perspective so badly that we insult the women's team. We have great talent coming back, and who knows, we could still get a great coach. Maybe Boyle's an anomaly. Who knows what was going through her head? None of us.

It's, what, not even a month since our season ended? Let's not get all doom-and-gloom yet.

[dockfan]

Hi,

I am curious as to how you know that there are no other candidates on the Duke "initial search" list? Maybe they are playing this very close to the vest? (Am I giving them too much credit?) Do you have to ask to speak with a WNBA coach the same way one does with a current college coach? Also, were there no other good coaches on Coach G's staff? Maybe Duke has its eye on one of those coaches and has been talking to her while interviewing Coach Boyle? Trying to stay positive.

GO DUKE! STAY SOME GOOD COACH, PLEASE!!

From everything that I've heard and read, Duke was preparing for Coach G's potential departure during the Final Four, and their initial survey of candidates focused on Joanne Boyle. So, once Coach G officially left, they immediately zoomed in on Boyle. To my knowledge, no other candidates were brought in for interviews or were offered the job, though there may have been informal discussions during the Final Four schmooze-fest.

Also, I doubt Sherri Coale from OU would leave the Sooners (and the Paris twins), but I think she'd be a fantastic candidate, and arguably the best available. But if Duke does have to hire a current college assistant, I wonder if they could pry Chris Dailey from UConn.

And, here's a tantalizing scenario for you: Duke hires MaChelle Joseph from Georgia Tech to be the next head coach, and she decides to bring her staff over with her... including...... Mark Simons, Coach G's ex!

[Kewlswim]

Also, I doubt Sherri Coale from OU would leave the Sooners (and the Paris twins), but I think she'd be a fantastic candidate, and arguable the best available.

Hi,

A better coach than Coach Boyle????

GO DUKE!

[dockfan]

Hi,

A better coach than Coach Boyle????

GO DUKE!

Potentially, yes- Coale has a lot more head coaching experience, and she has been a proven recruiter throughout her time at OU. She has signed the big-name recruits but also found diamonds in the rough, like when she offered a scholarship to a skinny Canadian named Stacey Dales.

Plus, if you've ever read anything she has written on her ESPN blog (also on OU's website), she is extremely intelligent and could probably make a living as a writer if she wanted to.

But I shouldn't get my hopes up. :)

[Kewlswim]

Potentially, yes- Coale has a lot more head coaching experience, and she has been a proven recruiter throughout her time at OU. She has signed the big-name recruits but also found diamonds in the rough, like when she offered a scholarship to a skinny Canadian named Stacey Dales.

Plus, if you've ever read anything she has written on her ESPN blog (also on OU's website), she is extremely intelligent and could probably make a living as a writer if she wanted to.

But I shouldn't get my hopes up. :)


Hi,

Woo Hoo. I am getting excited. Maybe this is all going to work out. :)

GO DUKE!

[Sixthman]

Those managing this matter for Duke are incompetent. It is entirely possible that this description applies to someone senior to Joe Aleva.

[Kewlswim]

Those managing this matter for Duke are incompetent. It is entirely possible that this description applies to someone senior to Joe Aleva.


Hi,

I just don't know. The term "well oiled machine" does not come to mind when thinking about what is transpiring with the search for a new coach. However, lots of stuff happens behind the scenes so it is possible everything is going as well as can be expected and that the search has just hit a few bumps in the road. I wanted Coach Boyle, but that was not to be. Maybe we will get the OU Coach? Sometimes things work out for the best. Five years from now we might be saying, "Whew, good thing we got Coach so and so."

GO DUKE!

[duke98]

I've hesitated to rush to judgment on Alleva's alleged incompetence. I'm not his biggest fan ever, but I think the so-called evidence blaming him for everything from Coach G's departure to global warming is sketchy at best.

This is Joe's time to step up to the plate. DUKE NEEDS TO MOVE AT LIGHTNING SPEED TO HIRE A BIG-NAME, QUALITY COACH. It can be done. Kentucky hired Billy Gillespie in a matter of days, even though Gillespie had seemingly committed to A&M for the long haul.

Perhaps Joe thought he could cheap out on Boyle b/c of her ties and b/c she's an alum. FWIW, I don't know that Boyle would have left Cal for any amount of money and/or incentive -- I think she's dedicated to building a program there and our timing is just bad. Two years ago, if we could have hired her away from Richmond, I think she's ours. Although, it's very possible that she may not want to come back to the place where she almost died in 2001. She was out of here pretty quickly after that, and more power to her.

In order for this program to maintain its top-tier status, the athletic department needs to do whatever it takes to bring a big-name coach with significant head coaching success to Duke. In order to keep our top-notch recruits for next year, to stay in the hunt for Elena Della Donne and other unsigned recruits, and -- most importantly -- to avoid looking dumb like UNC did the year they hired D'oh, we need to hire a coach ASAP.

If we haven't done this in a week, sign my name to the Fire Joe Alleva petition. If we hire Katie Meier, you can probably sign my name too. I'm sure Katie's a nice gal, but her record at Miami hasn't been stellar and she doesn't have the reputation one needs to run in recruiting circles with Geno and Pat (and now, Coach G...sigh). If we hire Katie I'm behind her all the way, and hopefully I'll eat these words someday.

[Kewlswim]

Hi,

Coach G talked to Coach Boyle about passing on the team to her.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/04/11/sports/s165315D69.DTL&type=sports

Boyle has spoken regularly with Goestenkors recently, saying the coach told her, "'I want to hand this baton over to you.'"

I can see where the Duke AD would have thought that Coach Boyle was coming to Duke. He probably spoke with Coach G about this and she told him she was encouraging Coach Boyle to return to Duke.

I am thinking more and more that Coach Boyle staying at Cal had nothing to do with the AD and everything to do with her wanting to build her own program. As much as it makes me sad she didn't come, I am thinking more and more that we have just had some bad luck. Who knows, maybe we need to hire a consulting firm to help us. Kentucky did it. Duke should not be too proud to use a good idea.

GO DUKE!

[SoCalDukeFan]

Coach G thought that Texas was a school that would be more supportive of athletics in general and women's bball specifically than Duke.

Boyle thought the same thing about Cal.

Hiring coaches can take some luck. Mike Garrett is the USC AD. He hired Paul Hackett as football coach. Believe me that to USC alums football coach is a giant deal. Hackett was a disaster. After 3 years Hackett was fired and Garrett could not get his first 2 choices into the job so he would up with Pete Carroll. The rest is history. Garrett also hired Rick Majerus as men's bball coach, and Rick quit about the next day. USC went to the Sweet 16 with Tim Floyd.

So Alleva may get lucky as Garrett did with Carroll. In my opinion, it will take luck.


SoCal

[Kewlswim]

Coach G thought that Texas was a school that would be more supportive of athletics in general and women's bball specifically than Duke.

Boyle thought the same thing about Cal.

Hiring coaches can take some luck. Mike Garrett is the USC AD. He hired Paul Hackett as football coach. Believe me that to USC alums football coach is a giant deal. Hackett was a disaster. After 3 years Hackett was fired and Garrett could not get his first 2 choices into the job so he would up with Pete Carroll. The rest is history. Garrett also hired Rick Majerus as men's bball coach, and Rick quit about the next day. USC went to the Sweet 16 with Tim Floyd.

So Alleva may get lucky as Garrett did with Carroll. In my opinion, it will take luck.


SoCal

Hi,

Duke has had a miserable year with the LAX situation, a MBB team that never really came together, a WBB team that was upset way before they should have been, and a WBB Coach that left right after the loss. Did you read the quotes by Coach Boyle that DBR has up? It does not sound like the AD did anything wrong. We just had some bad luck. Here is to good luck getting the OU coach! Our golden sun will shine (actually that is a line from the 49ers before they won 5 Super Bowls :D)!

GO DUKE!

[hamlin27]

We have met the enemy, and his name is Joe Alleva.
This man is tearing the Duke athletic program apart. There is NO excuse for him to have lost Gail. There is NO excuse not to hire Boyle. It's her alma mater. It's where she played. This is a joke. I can't believe more people are outraged over this. This man should be fired. The program now has to rely on a second choice when there is no clear second choice. One thing's for sure. Whatever the worst possible move will be, Duke has just the man in place at the AD's office to make it.
Hope everyone is happy.

[efudd]

LSU, mired in scandal, hired a big name coach. Chancellor did not have a hall-of-fame record at Ole Miss, but he certainly earned his stripes in the WNBA. Because of that, he is something of a brand name. He's not Pat, Geno or G, but his name will carry some major clout when recruiting. To continue to get players of Abby's caliber, we're going to have to compete against Pat, et al. Can an assistant or second/third tier coach do that? Go head-to-head against "murder's row" and come out on top the way G did? Maybe, but doubtful.

I think Duke and Alleva have painted themselves into a tricky corner. I think WBB is now at a crossroads. I don't mean to sound melodramatic, but this decision is not about contending for a title next year with G's players. It's about the future, recruiting, continuing to build a market to make the team profitable. It's about avoiding making WBB into the "new Coke". WBB, profit or not, is now a marquis sport for Duke. If the administration fails to recognize, honor, and fight for that, I will be sorely disappointed.

And, in answer to the earlier post speculating about Coach K's desire to escort WBB to the back of the bus, I'd be willing to bet the farm that he, of all people, wants the program to shine as brightly as possible. That's part of his whole cloth. I believe he's keeping a professional distance, but if brought into the process, I think he would push hard to get the best.

It is an honor to have the young women now on our team represent Duke University. The administration owes it to them, to the women coming in, and to us do whatever it takes to hire someone with the intelligence, the passion, and the talent to maintain the arc upon which the program currently finds itself.

[JBDuke]

We have met the enemy, and his name is Joe Alleva.
This man is tearing the Duke athletic program apart. There is NO excuse for him to have lost Gail. There is NO excuse not to hire Boyle. It's her alma mater. It's where she played. This is a joke. I can't believe more people are outraged over this. This man should be fired. The program now has to rely on a second choice when there is no clear second choice. One thing's for sure. Whatever the worst possible move will be, Duke has just the man in place at the AD's office to make it.
Hope everyone is happy.

Wow. This seems completely over the top.

There's NO excuse for losing Gail? What should Duke have done? Paid her $5 million a year? Fired Alleva and hired a friend of hers to be Athletic Director? Did Gail lie during her press conference? Here's what she said: "Over the past few weeks, it has been disheartening to hear misinformation regarding Duke’s support of me and our program, specifically from Duke’s athletic administration. Before I entered into discussions with the University of Texas, Athletic Director Joe Alleva and Duke’s administration approached me with a contract that was more than fair and addressed all of the issues I felt were important to the continued success of the women’s basketball program." It sounds to me like we lost Gail to the one situation which could tempt her away. No shame in that.

There's NO excuse for not hiring Boyle? Again, what should Duke have done here? Are you saying Duke didn't make her a good offer? Are you saying that she she lied at her press conference when she said "As sad as it is for me to say no to Duke, it's not where I'm supposed to be. It was a hard decision."? It sure sounds to me like she's very happy at Cal, like they gave her everything she wanted, contract-wise, with the new deal she just signed, and like she's justifiably proud of what she is building there, and feels she can make her mark there. So she chose to stay. No shame in that for Duke, either.

Let's get a little perspective here. I'm not totally sold on Alleva, but I'm willing to give him the chance to carry out a coaching search. Not signing his first choice is no great sin - as others have said, look at the recent searches at Carolina and Kentucky for a MBB coach. Two of the best jobs in the business, and both were turned down by multiple candidates. Gail has taken Duke into the elite ranks of WBB programs, and it's primed to win right now. This is a job many will want. Joe Alleva will not lack for options, and I'm willing to give him a chance to pick a good one.

[b&l]

While we're not into personal attacks, much of this whole saga with Coach G and a replacement is getting confusing, to couch it in more positive terms.

Did no one in Duke's administration know Coach G desired a new challenge? That's not something people hide that well. Was no one listening?

Did no one have contingency plans? Like in the case Coach G is no longer there, or even if Coach K, out of the blue decided to devote time to family. Where there no mechanisms in place to be triggered at the first signs of a major transition on the horizon?

Did no one establish pipelines to quickly ascertain who might be available, should such a situation arise? Would seem any successful program has among its staff and supporters a wealth of resources to quickly put together a preferential hit list and plenty of telephones to quickly and quietly determine who would seriously consider an offer.

Obviously quite a few universitities have had very quick responses to such situations. Just one example, Texas A&M, was able to absorb the loss of its coach and have a replacement within a week. Such examples are less luck than planning for contingencies, and crisis response.

We are totally baffled by what just happened with Coach Boyle. Not by her declining. By the chain of events. Why was she even flown to Durham, when it was so clear she loves California, both the school and culture? Why make her preferences a public spectacle, and lose a week, when some good, thorough phone calls the day Coach G announced her interest in Texas would have sufficed to determine whether Boyle was yearing to get back to Duke?

Aside from all the other hopes and concerns we all have been expressing here, this is turning into a potential PR disaster for Duke. The top priority, perhaps, should have been to avoid any mention in the media of someone turning down the Duke job. That is a plain old negative, for the school, the players, future recruits, etc. The mechanism should have first established who would commit to coming to Duke, if offered the position, then a decision made who to offer the job to. Then any visit, and media exposure, would have been no more than a sealing the deal. A big positive thing.

Hope someone clears up this mess, in a hurry, before Duke takes another hit in the court of public opinion.

[GopherBlue]

If we haven't done this in a week, sign my name to the Fire Joe Alleva petition. If we hire Katie Meier, you can probably sign my name too. I'm sure Katie's a nice gal, but her record at Miami hasn't been stellar and she doesn't have the reputation one needs to run in recruiting circles with Geno and Pat (and now, Coach G...sigh).

I have to agree with Duke98 on Katie Meier. In saying this, I have to admit that I do not know Katie personally, and am only remotely familiar with her time at Duke. However, after sitting through the Miami @ Duke game this season, I came away with the impression that Miami was a remarkably unimpressive team, both in talent, and in style of play. As Katie has not been in Miami long enought to significantly upgrade the talent level, this may not reflect on her. But the style of play was excruciating, and the coach has to be accountable for this.

At this point, it's a mistake to look only within the Duke family. These girls deserve a coach that can continue to take them on their upward trajectory to their first NC.

[wxyz]

Because of JA's frequent comments about the budget for WBB, I have the impression that the main goal in choosing a new WBB coach is to get someone who is perfectly respectable but lowers the cost of the program. It seems a goal is also to get someone who is willing to accept whatever is available to the WBB program in terms of support and facilities, and to get someone who will do so without complaint, not some kind of a prima donna.

Coach G's taking the program up to national championship status was nice, but it probably was an administrative problem because of costs and because it was disruptive. JA likes things that do not require administrative innovation. Maybe Duke will do better to give a chance to some nice person much closer to the start of her career. It may be that a lower level WBB program, like the low level football program, really fits into JA's and Duke's overall objectives better. They can tell us how great it will be 10 years from now, etc, once the new coach builds the program, but in the meantime not have to put as much into it.

It is true that accepting being average or below goes down hard at Duke, but we have heard President Brodhead give the "not worse than other places" as Duke's rationale for so many things so often that accepting a lower level goal for WBB would not be surprising. I liked championship level, so I will find it hard to give it up. Realistically however, most Duke fans got along fine with low level WBB for years, and they can learn to do so again. It will be enough to fulfill Title IX mandates in terms of numbers, and it can still have a nice aura if the person selected is pleasant and looks good on TV.

[Susan]

Because of JA's frequent comments about the budget for WBB, I have the impression that the main goal in choosing a new WBB coach is to get someone who is perfectly respectable but lowers the cost of the program. It seems a goal is also to get someone who is willing to accept whatever is available to the WBB program in terms of support and facilities, and to get someone who will do so without complaint, not some kind of a prima donna.

Coach G's taking the program up to national championship status was nice, but it probably was an administrative problem because of costs and because it was disruptive. JA likes things that do not require administrative innovation. Maybe Duke will do better to give a chance to some nice person much closer to the start of her career. It may be that a lower level WBB program, like the low level football program, really fits into JA's and Duke's overall objectives better. They can tell us how great it will be 10 years from now, etc, once the new coach builds the program, but in the meantime not have to put as much into it.

It is true that accepting being average or below goes down hard at Duke, but we have heard President Brodhead give the "not worse than other places" as Duke's rationale for so many things so often that accepting a lower level goal for WBB would not be surprising. I liked championship level, so I will find it hard to give it up. Realistically however, most Duke fans got along fine with low level WBB for years, and they can learn to do so again. It will be enough to fulfill Title IX mandates in terms of numbers, and it can still have a nice aura if the person selected is pleasant and looks good on TV.

I went online today to enjoy reading all about the Lacrosse decision. Instead, I see this sad news. :(

I know your comments are tongue in cheek, but things are even sadder than I imagined if this scenario you paint is the case. That's what we want. Someone who is only moderately successful, but who is pleasant and looks good on tv.

I am now inclined to agree with your comments in para 1, though. You'll note that Coach G left Duke for a program where there is a female AD (or assistant AD in charge of women's sports) who seems to truly be an advocate for the WBB program, its needs, etc. Joanne Boyle's AD at Cal is also female and someone who, according to today's SFGate article, has had a goal of bringing their WBB program back to prominence. From what I can tell from what I've read on this board and elsewhere, Alleva may well be the opposite of that. A "good old boy" who does not place a priority on WBB? Or, the administration is in favor of marginalizing all athletics. Either way, it doesn't bode well in the search for a WBB coach. I hope I am proved wrong.

[DevilWolf]

I fully believe in the importance of hiring a woman for the coaching job, especially looking at the awful statistics of women in positions of power in the NCAA.

But I would not be disappointed if Quin Snyder was brought into the discussion, not that I have any knowledge of him even being interested.

[duke98]

I fully believe in the importance of hiring a woman for the coaching job, especially looking at the awful statistics of women in positions of power in the NCAA.

But I would not be disappointed if Quin Snyder was brought into the discussion, not that I have any knowledge of him even being interested.

Ok, please, PLEASE tell me this is a joke.

[Kfanarmy]

You'll note that Coach G left Duke for a program where there is a female AD (or assistant AD in charge of women's sports) who seems to truly be an advocate for the WBB program, its needs, etc. Joanne Boyle's AD at Cal is also female and someone who, according to today's SFGate article, has had a goal of bringing their WBB program back to prominence.

Though it hasn't hurt their FB or MBB programs yet, at least as far as anyone knows, requiring a female AD to show that your serious about WBB isn't worth it if it begins to effect the MBB team at Duke...especially if a female AD would have to come in and show how tough she is to a couch K or other male coaches within the school...I sincerely doubt that Joe Alleva didn't give the WBB program all that they needed, given the success over the past four years. As long as the AD continues to provide the level of support needed for the coach to be successful, the university should be able to get a high caliber person, egos notwithstanding.

[NYC Duke Fan]

Doesn't the buck stop with him with both the WBB situation and so far I have not seen any apologies from the Duke professors who initially showed no support for the lacrosse players ?

[bludev03]

Because Boyle was interviewing at Florida, the week before G resigned, it's clear that she's "job hopping". Furthermore, do we REALLY want a coach who:
a) has not won a NCAA tournament game
b) has not produced any Kodak AAs
c) has not produced any NPOY
d) has not produced any WNBA players
?????
Let's not fool ourselves.....facts are facts

I could understand her wanting to go to Florida, where there's nowhere to go but up.....but why want a coach w/ these creditentials to coach our team who has had 7 straight 30 win seasons???:confused:

[Susan]

Though it hasn't hurt their FB or MBB programs yet, at least as far as anyone knows, requiring a female AD to show that your serious about WBB isn't worth it if it begins to effect the MBB team at Duke...especially if a female AD would have to come in and show how tough she is to a couch K or other male coaches within the school...I sincerely doubt that Joe Alleva didn't give the WBB program all that they needed, given the success over the past four years. As long as the AD continues to provide the level of support needed for the coach to be successful, the university should be able to get a high caliber person, egos notwithstanding.

While I did not expressly state that Duke needs to hire a female A.D., it does seem clear that the female A.D.s (or assistant A.D.) at Texas and Cal place a high priority on the women's hoops program, and I'm not convinced by what I've been reading that the same goes for Joe Alleva. And I don't see where you're going about a female A.D. causing harm to the men's program. While I'm not well versed on A.D.s at schools around the nation (and where the female A.D.s are) I do know that Debbie Yow at Maryland has been around for a number of years and that doesn't seem to have harmed the quality of the men's basketball program OR the football program. (I'm no big fan of hers when it comes to dealing with the actions of the Maryland student body, however. :o ) And I have read that there is no love lost between her and Gary Williams, but who knows if that is just speculation. Still, is there any real reason to think that an A.D. being male or female would affect the quality of our men's basketball program? A change in A.D. certainly can't do anything to harm the quality of our football program.

[The Gordog]

Can this be moved to the Lacross board ?

[Duvall]

Doesn't the buck stop with him with both the WBB situation and so far I have not seen any apologies from the Duke professors who initially showed no support for the lacrosse players ?

Well, as far as the women's basketball program is concerned, it's not the university president's job to hire and keep coaches - or at least it shouldn't.

[Kfanarmy]

Still, is there any real reason to think that an A.D. being male or female would affect the quality of our men's basketball program? A change in A.D. certainly can't do anything to harm the quality of our football program.

If you think having a female AD, based on gender alone, yields a better chance to get the right person who places enough emphasis on WBB then you must accept the potential that a female AD has a better chance of not getting the right person or placing less emphasis on other programs...unless your going to rely on the alumni to make sure there isn't fallout elsewhere...

[Susan]

I have to say I still really don't follow your logic here. I'm not sure that just because a person is inclined to support women's basketball means he/she is more likely to deemphasize other sports. And I don't necessarily think all women ADs would give high priority to women's basketball. But we'll just have to agree to disagree in this instance, I guess. :)

My main point initially was to say that my impression is that Coach G is going to a place where women's hoops is given higher priority and greater support than it is at Duke, and that it very well may be the same at Cal. Both places do have female ADs/assistant ADs. I really don't care if Duke hires a male or female AD to replace Joe Alleva if he leaves, but I do hope it is someone who places a high value on women's basketball, as well of course on men's basketball and football too. I am not convinced that this is currently the case.

[Kewlswim]

Hi,

I would like the athletic department to step up and tell us who is next in the pipeline as a potential WBB coach? I don't think it should be a secret. The negotiations are secret, but the candidate should be out in the open ala Coach G's wooing by Texas. Furthermore, I would like to know who is on the committee to find a new coach. That shouldn't be a secret either. Perhaps this has been all provided and I have missed the information. I would love it, if that is so, that some kind soul please provide the information somewhere here on DBR.

GO DUKE!

[GopherBlue]

Rather that complaining about what could have been, perhaps we can be proactive and constructive by supplying Joe Alleva with a list of candidates for the WBB head coach position. After all, this is what a consulting firm would be retained to do, and I suspect if we put our collective heads together, and we can do a heckuva job and save the athletic dept a few large (which they, in turn, can use to lure such coach to Duke).

I'll start (some have already been mentioned in this thread, and not all are based in reality):

- Sherri Coale (OU)
- Katie Meyer (UMiami)
- Charli Turner Thorne (ASU) - new contract may make this unlikely
- Kim Mulkey (Baylor) - also new contract...
- Terri Mitchell (Marq)
- Geno (UConn)
- take another run at Coach G and Coach Boyle...

[Kewlswim]

Rather that complaining about what could have been, perhaps we can be proactive and constructive by supplying Joe Alleva with a list of candidates for the WBB head coach position. After all, this is what a consulting firm would be retained to do, and I suspect if we put our collective heads together, and we can do a heckuva job and save the athletic dept a few large (which they, in turn, can use to lure such coach to Duke).

I'll start (some have already been mentioned in this thread, and not all are based in reality):

- Sherri Coale (OU)
- Katie Meyer (UMiami)
- Charli Turner Thorne (ASU) - new contract may make this unlikely
- Kim Mulkey (Baylor) - also new contract...
- Terri Mitchell (Marq)
- Geno (UConn)
- take another run at Coach G and Coach Boyle...


Hi,

I like that at least there is a list to go over. Thank you.

Here is my view:

- Sherri Coale (OU) --Excellent, as I hear more I like her better.
- Katie Meyer (UMiami) -- not sold on her, but might be our best chance.
- Charli Turner Thorne (ASU) - new contract may make this unlikely, doubt we have a shot.
- Kim Mulkey (Baylor) - also new contract... Hmmm there are always escape clauses.
- Terri Mitchell (Marq) --tell me more about this coach, has she won big games?
- Geno (UConn) -- I think it would make sense to talk to him. What do we have to lose?
- take another run at Coach G and Coach Boyle... I would love it, but I doubt it. Then again, just like I wrote about, there are always escape clauses. Coach Boyle could go to bed again and have a change of heart?

I am so sad. I think Duke Athletics looks like a bumbling, stumbling, third-rate athletics department. Maybe that is just because I am close to the situation and from the outside it looks like a normal search for a coach. My view is also skewed because we have so much baggage with AD Aleva. It is like, maybe a change of scenery would do everyone a lot of good. (Beating a dead horse here, maybe I should stop talking about it). Maybe Andy Geiger will head our search for a coach to show some people at Duke how to do it? Maybe Tom Butters will come back and give us a hand? :(

I don't think that Duke completely throws away its women's teams. I actually think we do more for them than a lot of schools. It is just that right now we are not doing enough to publicize what we do so it looks like there is nothing being done. Also, fan sites tend to look at gloom and doom more than the average fan.

GO DUKE!

[Susan]

I don't think that Duke completely throws away its women's teams. I actually think we do more for them than a lot of schools. It is just that right now we are not doing enough to publicize what we do so it looks like there is nothing being done. Also, fan sites tend to look at gloom and doom more than the average fan.

GO DUKE!

Maybe you're right. I'd avoided being despondent about WBB and even Alleva until today, when I joined the gloom and doom ranks. So I did a google search and found this old article when Coach G was deciding whether to leave or stay http://heraldsun.com/sports/duke/39-834981.cfm. Here are some relevant quotes:


Duke has put on a full-court press as it tries to retain its coach of 15 years, who also has won the ACC coach of the year award seven times.

While Texas reportedly offered Goestenkors an annual salary of $800,000, Duke sources have said the school has "stepped up to the plate." Goestenkors' exact Duke salary isn't known -- she's in the second year of a four-year contract -- but she makes less than $530,000 based on the school's IRS forms.

"Duke has done a lot," associate athletics director Jacki Silar said. "She's met with our president before she went into regionals. She's met with our athletic director before she went into regionals. They talked extensively on the vision they have for women's athletics and especially for women's basketball at Duke. They've impressed upon her how much they want her to remain at Duke and coach at Duke.

"Before she even told any of us she wanted to go look at Texas, Duke was talking with her and being proactive and not reactive."

Alleva and a 10- to 15-person Duke contingent will be on hand Monday when Goestenkors accepts the WBCA coach of the year award. Blue Devil supporters also are taking out an ad in the Cleveland Plain-Dealer on the same day.

One area of concern for Goestenkors apparently is attendance, where the Blue Devils ranked 15th in the NCAA this season.

"That's something that definitely could be improved upon at Duke is our attendance -- consistently," Silar said.

Maybe we've just had a run of bad luck. Maybe Duke is doing all it can. Maybe we'll follow in Kentucky's footsteps and hire a Gillispie of women's basketball.

We can only hope! :)

[dockfan]

Hi,

I like that at least there is a list to go over. Thank you.

Here is my view:

- Sherri Coale (OU) --Excellent, as I hear more I like her better.
- Katie Meyer (UMiami) -- not sold on her, but might be our best chance.
- Charli Turner Thorne (ASU) - new contract may make this unlikely, doubt we have a shot.
- Kim Mulkey (Baylor) - also new contract... Hmmm there are always escape clauses.
- Terri Mitchell (Marq) --tell me more about this coach, has she won big games?
- Geno (UConn) -- I think it would make sense to talk to him. What do we have to lose?
- take another run at Coach G and Coach Boyle... I would love it, but I doubt it. Then again, just like I wrote about, there are always escape clauses. Coach Boyle could go to bed again and have a change of heart?

I am so sad. I think Duke Athletics looks like a bumbling, stumbling, third-rate athletics department. Maybe that is just because I am close to the situation and from the outside it looks like a normal search for a coach. My view is also skewed because we have so much baggage with AD Aleva. It is like, maybe a change of scenery would do everyone a lot of good. (Beating a dead horse here, maybe I should stop talking about it). Maybe Andy Geiger will head our search for a coach to show some people at Duke how to do it? Maybe Tom Butters will come back and give us a hand? :(

I don't think that Duke completely throws away its women's teams. I actually think we do more for them than a lot of schools. It is just that right now we are not doing enough to publicize what we do so it looks like there is nothing being done. Also, fan sites tend to look at gloom and doom more than the average fan.

GO DUKE!

I'd also add:

Joanne P. McCallie (MSU) - recent extension - will be costly

Dawn Staley (Temple) - recent extension - will be costly

Jen Rizzotti (Hartford) - recent extension, plus will probably bolt to replace Geno eventually

Chris Dailey (UConn assistant) - unlikely to leave... in a Johnny Dawkins situation

Nikki Caldwell (Tenn assistant) - no head coaching experience; assisted at UVA and Stanford before Tennessee; outstanding recruiter

Stacy Hansmeyer (OU assistant) - no head coaching experience; quite young, but a proven recruiter and aide to Sherri Coale

And here's a sleeper candidate:
Felicia Legette-Jack (Indiana) - great recruiter, well connected on East Coast, has been successful head coach; long-time successful assistant coach at a number of programs (MSU, under McCallie, Syracuse).

[johnb]

I still don't think that a relatively brief search for a coach brings shame to the University.

Here's the attendance figures for last year (http://www.ncaa.org/stats/w_basketball/attendance/2005-06/2005-06_w_basketball_attendance.pdf).

The only private schools ahead of were Baylor and Notre Dame. If Gail wants a full stadium, she will NEVER get it at Duke as long as the core die hards camp for the men's games, and the rest of the campus just isn't all that big.

[dockfan]

I still don't think that a relatively brief search for a coach brings shame to the University.

Here's the attendance figures for last year (http://www.ncaa.org/stats/w_basketball/attendance/2005-06/2005-06_w_basketball_attendance.pdf).

The only private schools ahead of were Baylor and Notre Dame. If Gail wants a full stadium, she will NEVER get it at Duke as long as the core die hards camp for the men's games, and the rest of the campus just isn't all that big.

A relatively narrow search that does not seriously consider several highly-qualified candidates for a replacement coach, which is not befitting of the top-five team and program established by Coach G, is embarrassing and somewhat shameful for Duke fans and arguably should be for the Duke Athletic Dep't. I figure Duke University, as an institution, probably is shamed enough by the lacrosse situation, so it gets a free pass for feeling shame for anything else in the next, say, 50 years. :)

As far as attendance, absolutely Duke is way behind. True basketball fans in the RDU area really have no excuse for only turning out by the hundreds to watch the likes of Alana Beard, Mo Currie, Iciss Tillis, Lindsey Harding, etc. over the last several seasons. But I don't blame the students. Student attendance is significantly lower for women's b'ball than it is for men's b'ball, across the nation. But the athletic department has not done a good enough job to attract families, young girls, and all other adult basketball fans to come to Cameron on the cheap and watch an outstanding team play in an outstanding conference. Clearly, scores of schools in the Big 12, SEC, and Big East have surpassed Duke in that regard.

[Susan]

Mechelle Voepel's commentary on the ESPN site was interesting:

Another Busy Week in the Coaching Carousel (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncw/columns/story?columnist=voepel_mechelle&id=2834095)


...Boyle said in the time since her recovery from a near-fatal brain hemorrhage in November 2001, she has evaluated her life and her goals differently. That makes sense. A native of Philadelphia, Boyle is about eight months younger than her former boss at Duke, Gail Goestenkors, and said she talked a lot to the new Texas coach during this process of considering going back to the Blue Devils. Boyle stressed that she thinks Duke is a "great job" for somebody.

But … it's worth noting that whoever that "somebody" is obviously should know who runs the show at Duke: Coach K. The last time Duke hired a women's basketball head coach was in 1992, just after Mike Krzyzewski's men's program had won its second consecutive NCAA title. At that time, the women's program was barely an aphid -- if that -- to the men's program's elephant.

The Duke women's program has come a long, long way … but the person responsible for that, Goestenkors, is gone. I'm not trying to be Chicken Little about what might happen now at Duke. But Duke women's basketball fans need to be in high-alert mode. The next few weeks could be very telling...


I agree that Duke could do a lot to try to improve attendance. That said, it is interesting to note that Duke's WBB attendance is still tops in the ACC. The entire conference could do much better. When New Mexico averages 10,000 plus per game, they must be doing something right.

[Duke4Life]

Katie Meier would not be a good hire in my opinion...

Duke is scraping the bottom of the barrel now if you ask me.

Who would have thought that Duke would be the program who can't find a coach, along with Fla?

I want Sherri Coale from OK.

Peck is overrated.

Oh well, the saga continues. Looks like the Duke job is not what maybe some of us thought it may be...

[johnb]

I think the attendance is inevitably lower than it might be at a large state school and/or at a school where men's BB is less strong than WBB. If you believe, however, that Duke should have done more to bring in fans, who has been running the Duke program for the last 15 years and who, while she brought in great players, never brought in the fans? I guess the AD could have done more, but there are quite a few sports on campus to support, and my assumption is that WBB is the biggest financial loser and despite the great teams, has almost never filled CIS. I'm sorry to see G go, but I haven't been convinced that a) we didn't offer a reasonable deal, b)the search is shameful or c) that the search has been restricted to a few obvious names.

And if you would like to offer her an additional $500,000 per year, would you be prepared to eliminate the cross country team or the golf team or do you have some other plan to recoup that money?

Aside from longstanding gripes, why is everyone sure that this being handled badly?

[DU82]

This is NOT like hiring an upstart from Army to get the men's team back to national prominence or hiring a rising star assistant from Purdue to get the women's team turned around.[/I] This is a top-five program with a top-five recruiting class and top-five talent for next season; a team that should have their sights on nothing less than a national title next season; a team that needs a coach prepared to lead a team to a Final Four or a national title in '07-'08.

Regarding Coach K, he was hired immediately after the men's basketball team lost in the regional final, as ACC Champions. The previous year the team was the regular season co-leader (lost in the ACC final) and the year before that as ACC champs lost in the national championship game. I don't think a return to national prominence was needed at that point. (Improved recuiting, yes.)

[efudd]

In the oft-told story about K, you'll recall that Butters had the foresight to go to proven winners, like Bobby Knight, and ask for suggestions. I wonder if the committee/Alleva/et al have thought to contact Summitt and/or Geno to ask who should get the job?

[dockfan]

Well, Coach G's departure has lead Elena DelleDonne, arguably the best women's basketball prospect since Candace Parker, to drop Duke from her list of schools. You'll never guess who she has added instead... :)

"DelleDonne's final six now includes Connecticut, Maryland, Tennessee and Villanova, in addition to Middle Tennessee and Texas. DelleDonne has been invited to the USA Basketball U19 tryouts, May 17-20, in Colorado Springs. She's planned to pare her list further after the tryouts, then perhaps make a decision in June."

http://girlshoops.scout.com/2/634863.html

[_Gary]

Well, Coach G's departure has lead Elena DelleDonne, arguably the best women's basketball prospect since Candace Parker, to drop Duke from her list of schools. You'll never guess who she has added instead... :)

"DelleDonne's final six now includes Connecticut, Maryland, Tennessee and Villanova, in addition to Middle Tennessee and Texas. DelleDonne has been invited to the USA Basketball U19 tryouts, May 17-20, in Colorado Springs. She's planned to pare her list further after the tryouts, then perhaps make a decision in June."

http://girlshoops.scout.com/2/634863.html

Not unexpected, but very sad. I fear we are really going to see the demise of the Duke Women's team within the next couple of years unless a major coaching coup is pulled off - and quick!

Gary

[mapei]

Depressing. :(

Does anyone besides me think that G's interviewing Texas and Duke (and Florida?) DURING THE NCAA TOURNAMENT THE DUKE TEAM WAS TRYING TO WIN could have been a distraction that contributed to the team's early exit? How could she have been fully focused on winning when she was thinking about something so important personally? Is it too much to think the team could have used a full-time coach at that time?

Since she obviously didn't discourage the overtures, I have to think she had already decided to consider other options. She was already discontent at Duke.

[Kewlswim]

Well, Coach G's departure has lead Elena DelleDonne, arguably the best women's basketball prospect since Candace Parker, to drop Duke from her list of schools. You'll never guess who she has added instead... :)

"DelleDonne's final six now includes Connecticut, Maryland, Tennessee and Villanova, in addition to Middle Tennessee and Texas. DelleDonne has been invited to the USA Basketball U19 tryouts, May 17-20, in Colorado Springs. She's planned to pare her list further after the tryouts, then perhaps make a decision in June."

http://girlshoops.scout.com/2/634863.html


Hi,

Let's see who Duke ends up having as its WBB Coach. It is probable that Ms. Delle Donne isn't thinking about coming to Duke regardless of the coach, but let's see, she can always add us back if she likes who we get.

GO DUKE!

[wxyz]

I agree that Duke could do a lot to try to improve attendance. That said, it is interesting to note that Duke's WBB attendance is still tops in the ACC. The entire conference could do much better. When New Mexico averages 10,000 plus per game, they must be doing something right.

It also is important to look at the trends as attendance may change from year to year. At Duke under Coach G, the trend was remarkably positive, both average attendance and peak attendance. Duke had achieved sustained attendance numbers well above other area schools despite their larger enrollments and larger local fan base. It was becoming a place to be.

It will be a challenge now to have that trend continue. With the outstanding players present it could be done.

[wxyz]

Depressing. :(

<snip>

Since she obviously didn't discourage the overtures, I have to think she had already decided to consider other options. She was already discontent at Duke.

The ghost of Mike Pressler hangs over every coach in every sport at Duke. It is the vision of having no job one morning due to something you did not control and have no opportunity to explain, without even your own athletic director willing to speak up for you. (Remember that Pressler was dismissed, apparently by a person outside his chain of command, when one private email from one student to student friends became public.) Every coach at Duke in every sport has this nightmare.

Duke can exorcise this ghost by reviewing what happened and taking some positive actions to put some guarantees in place, and new coaches can get some new wording in contracts (if they are big name enough to have leverage), but right now Duke is vulnerable across the board.

[b&l]

Haven't seen it addressed here, but what about the preferences of the present Duke WBB players? Does anyone have access to Abby to ask her to poll the players on names, and submit that list to AD JA? If you think about it, the coaching personailities most popular to the players reflect a number of things, most obvious who'd they love to play for, but also who would've had an inside track on recruiting them. Why aren't their expert opinions solicited?

We also haven't read here any in depth reasons why Brenda Frese of Maryland wouldn't be a candidate? She has that NC to wave around, and from an ESPN in depth profile on her one couldn't avoid the impression she is popular among her players. With a good sense of humor to boot. Just wondering why she is being avoided?

Also, we noticed this morning another top WNBA coach got signed. Not a place to look, too?

Finally, can anyone see if Geno can be offered a board position on the Jimmy V Foundation to go with the coaching offer. Surely he has friends who've migrated to the Triangle, and the lure of less harsh winters might get his attention as well. Texas was simply too great a culture shock for a Yankee like him, but parts of the Triangle, e.g. Cary, are full of NE transplants. Tell him if the Hartford (CT!) Whalers can become the Carolina Hurricanes and win the Stanley Cup, his future here might be very bright indeed, as bright as that Carolina sky after a front moves through.

just thoughts, no claims to the truth :)

[johnb]

The ghost of Mike Pressler hangs over every coach in every sport at Duke. It is the vision of having no job one morning due to something you did not control and have no opportunity to explain, without even your own athletic director willing to speak up for you.... right now Duke is vulnerable across the board.

Pressler did not maintain adequate control over his program. If he had, his players would not have had the party that ravaged the program and the three students. He had been warned. He screwed up. Coaches are fired for far, far less.

Virtually all of Duke's teams have been ranked in the top 20 within the past year or two; if Duke is vulnerable across the board, I'd hate to think about the situation of every other school in the country aside from Stanford, Notre Dame, and about a dozen of the really big state schools.

[johnb]

Excellent points, johnb (hardy har har).

By the way, if Kentucky men's BB has to go to their third choice, and Kentucky is arguably the best program in the country (okay, I wouldn't argue it, but they would in Lexington), is it all that horrendous that we might have to drop to our second choice?

Finally, do any of you think that recruits & players might have internet access and are turning here to see what we think of the situation? Lots of Chicken Littles amongst us, and we are still going to have one of the 2 or 3 most talented teams in the country next year. If you want to panic about wins, let's talk some football.

[dockfan]

Excellent points, johnb (hardy har har).

By the way, if Kentucky men's BB has to go to their third choice, and Kentucky is arguably the best program in the country (okay, I wouldn't argue it, but they would in Lexington), is it all that horrendous that we might have to drop to our second choice?

Finally, do any of you think that recruits & players might have internet access and are turning here to see what we think of the situation? Lots of Chicken Littles amongst us, and we are still going to have one of the 2 or 3 most talented teams in the country next year. If you want to panic about wins, let's talk some football.

It's not horrendous to drop to a second choice in theory, but with all due respect to her, Joanne Boyle is not equivalent to Billy Donovan, and from all reports, Rick Barnes and Billy Gillespie are much bigger names (and more accomplished head coaches) than any of the names Duke might have a chance at as their second or third choices. I'd love to be proven wrong on this, though, and see Duke land a great coach as the second choice. But I think the "Chicken Littles" around here (like myself) have their doubts about this prospect.

Also, just to clarify, in no way am I a "Chicken Little" about next year's team (or even the next two or three). There are probably hundreds of coaches out there capable enough to meld the talent on the roster into a really good team (top 2-3 in ACC, Final Four contender, Top 15 nationally). Coach G left the cupboard absolutely stocked! My main concern is Duke not hiring a coach who can step right in and leave no doubts about the coaching future, meld the players into a great team (ACC Champs, Final Four, Top 5, as they could be next year), and perhaps most importantly, immediately recruit the type of players Coach G has brought in recently. Losing out on Elena DelleDonne is just the first step. What if Shay Selby, an early verbal to Duke, backs out?

With 2-3 years of subpar recruiting, the stature of Duke's program can drop quite significantly. I don't mean dropping out of the Top 25 (or even Top 15 maybe), but over the last few years, you could no longer just say "UConn and Tennessee" anymore. Duke was in that conversation- in recruiting, in Final Fours, in overall stature. It's a significant drop to fall from that level to, say, where Vandy or Stanford are now. Both are still great programs, and Duke still can be, but it is a significant change. Plus, Duke WBB does not yet have the ability to withstand down years like the men's program or other top WBB programs, who all have the prestige, history, and tradition of national titles, legendary coaches, etc.

My concerns really just reflect how far Coach G took the Duke WBB program in a relatively short period of time, but how precarious the whole position is. It will take a special coach, and a special group of players, to maintain and grow Duke's position in the WBB world. I'm confident the right players are currently in place- all they need is the coach, and recruits/future players down the road who are up to the challenge.

[gadzooks]

We also haven't read here any in depth reasons why Brenda Frese of Maryland wouldn't be a candidate? She has that NC to wave around, and from an ESPN in depth profile on her one couldn't avoid the impression she is popular among her players. With a good sense of humor to boot. Just wondering why she is being avoided?Frese is an outstanding coach, but coaches from within the conference are generally considered off limits. Even though we compete with each other, there's still supposed to be a great deal of cooperation, and that would be very badly damaged by poaching.

[Kewlswim]

Hi,

Ex-Gator coaching at UNC-Charlotte is about to take the helm...

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaw/news?slug=ap-florida-butler&prov=ap&type=lgns

GO DUKE!

[Duke4Life]

Brenda Frese is NOT leaving Maryland. She already answered that during the Final Four.

She has her own AD, Debbie Yowe who is Kay Yow's sister, and already has more than Duke has...a national title. She is going nowhere and has never even thought about going to Duke.

Case closed on that.

[efudd]

Now that FL has filled its vacancy, are there any more openings out there at D1 schools ... or are the Blue Devils it?

[AtlBluRew]

Brenda Frese is NOT leaving Maryland. She already answered that during the Final Four.

She has her own AD, Debbie Yowe who is Kay Yow's sister, and already has more than Duke has...a national title. She is going nowhere and has never even thought about going to Duke.

Case closed on that.


I'd be disappointed if Duke even tried to hire Frese. I've seen quite a few women's basketball coaches roll their eyes or raise an eyebrow at the mention of her name. She is not, in my experience, well-received amongst women's coaches.

[wxyz]

...Pressler did not maintain adequate control over his program. If he had, his players would not have had the party that ravaged the program and the three students. He had been warned. He screwed up. Coaches are fired for far, far less.
..

As relates to the Duke team, what you say follows press accounts from last year. In contrast, please consider that the Coleman report, based on far more extensive data, did not describe a team that was out of control, nor did Tallman Trask, their supervisor. Since this is the WBB thread, job security (or the lack of it) may be a factor in the thinking of a prospective coach that will need to be taken into account in her contract, whatever that is. In past years job security, in the sense of having confidence that regular administrative protocol would be followed, would have been a big plus for Duke, I think. Now Duke might be seen as "normal" in the way you describe. It still can be addressed, but it will need to be.

[dukeman28428]

That has occurred to me - but to sacrifice your son because you were driving drunk would require "innovative thinking". That phrase does not describe our AD.

This is so unfair as you have no basic except speculation. Get real and don't try to cut someone down without hard facts.

[Kewlswim]

Hi,

Is Alleva about to pull a rabbit out of the hat? Does anyone have any inkling as to what is happening with the search? I fear that without a coach named quite soon the kids will get antsy and some will either not come and others will think about leaving. Please, please let's get someone good and do it soon.

GO DUKE!

[robc]

Things are proceeding on the job search, and I'm now confident that Duke will get a very good coach as a result.

[grossbus]

in RobC i trust.

[adam]

I'm still voting for offering the job to Rick Majerus (formerly of Utah). He accepted the USC job a couple years back, only to leave about 10 minutes later because he didn't want to have to rebuild the program. There is no rebuilding needed with the women's team, though. The only thing he'd have to do is ensure the recruits are still committed to Duke and go from there.

If not Majerus, what about Mike Montgomery (formerly of Stanford)? I realize they are both formerly men's basketball coach's, but if they did decide to "switch", it wouldn't be the first time it's happened... just see the head coach at Army who took over the program after Maggie Dixon passed away.

[GopherBlue]

Things are proceeding on the job search, and I'm now confident that Duke will get a very good coach as a result.

RobC: Please elaborate, if you can without threatening the process. We're all on pins and needles waiting for information.

[dukemomLA]

Well, it seems 2 new candidates are frontrunners. They both seem okay. Would love your thoughts.

[dukemomLA]

Also, we have a wonderful, gifted, mature group of women -- including our new recruits. Has anyone asked them who they want???!! Certainly Abby W could be a player/coach --and I'm sure a few others. Let's give these women their due. Whatever/whomever they want -- GO FOR IT!!

[dukemomLA]

:) :confused:
Also, we have a wonderful, gifted, mature group of women -- including our new recruits. Has anyone asked them who they want???!! Certainly Abby W could be a player/coach --and I'm sure a few others. Let's give these women their due. Whatever/whomever they want -- GO FOR IT!!

[robc]

I think the correct and proper choice here would be Mitchell. It's all about the proper fit, and she is the best fit for Duke IMO.

[gadzooks]

There's a rumor (http://boards.rebkell.net/viewtopic.php?t=26781&sid=d52aee08ef7108413e6ee5bc8cb864ef)that McCallie is our girl. I haven't seen this on any news site yet, though, so despite those posters saying they'd heard it on the radio, I'll still consider it speculation until I hear it from an official source.

[bluedevil]

Michigan State's Joanne P. McCallie has been to the 2005 national championship game, won AP national coach of the year, and as head coach of USA basketball dominated the rest of the world by 62 ppg en route to the 2006 U20 gold medal by going 5-0 and setting 28 records (Joanne Boyle was her assistant coach). Joanne McCallie's resume is much like Goestenkors, except Duke is much easier to recruit to so McCallie's 8-4 NCAA record which is 7-2 recently should get even better.

McCallie is much, much better than Terri Mitchell who in by far her best year ever in 11 years at Marquette, got slaughtered by more than 30 points by Oklahoma in the second round of the 2007 NCAA. Oklahoma's Sherri Coale was rumored to be in Durham for an interview, what happened with that?

McCallie is by far the best choice among reported candidates, she graduated from Northwestern in 1987 and has a masters in business administration so she's younger yet more accomplished than Boyle. She's smart and has the right resume building MSU from a loser to a powerhouse just like at Maine where she had 6 NCAA appearances in 8 years. She's even been a top recruiting assistant for Auburn bringing in a top 4 class and coaching in 2 national title games there in 4 years. Even her husband being a conservative economist would be exactly what Duke needs. Gail brought Van Gorp and Erickson from Purdue to get Duke to the 99 title game. McCallie can bring MSU's 6'9" freshman supercenter Alyssa Dehaan, who averaged a triple double in HS and as a freshman averaged what Bales did as a senior, 12.5 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 4.5 bpg. Dehaan even wants to be a doctor like Bales so another perfect fit for Duke like McCallie.

[dockfan]

Coach McCallie would be a phenomenal "get" for Duke. I think her resume is significantly better than Mitchell's, as she made Maine into a very strong program, led MSU to the Final Four, and has USA Basketball coaching experience.

She's also a graduate of Northwestern, so as far as understanding the academic/basketball balance at a top-flight university, I think she's a fantastic fit for Duke.

Interesting note: I thought (and I'm pretty sure it was reported that) McCallie signed an extension, so it would cost Duke more money to lure her away, but apparently she signed a "revised contract" for more money that doesn't go into effect until July 1. Very shrewd. So Duke might get McCallie for a comparative bargain!! :)

All in all, if Joanne P. McCallie is Duke's next women's basketball coach, I can confidently say, as one "Chicken Little" around here, that the sky is no longer falling, and it is in fact rising!!!!

Go Duke!

[GopherBlue]

A bit of background on each coach:

Joanne P. McCallie (aka 'Coach P'):
http://msuspartans.cstv.com/sports/w-baskbl/mtt/mccallie_joannep.00.html

Terri Mitchell:
http://gomarquette.cstv.com/sports/w-baskbl/mtt/mitchell_terri01.html

I have to agree that the situation is looking up for the Duke women. Let's hope the athletic department can determine which is the better fit, and seal the deal.

[Kewlswim]

HI,

If Duke in fact gets Joanne P. McCallie I will eat some crow because of what I have been thinking about the ineptitude of the Athletic Department. Coach P (as I think she is referred to at MSU) is actually a really great hire. Perhaps, er um, a better hire than Coach Boyle. I liked Coach Boyle because of all the intangibles, Duke grad, building Cal, etc. However, this coach has more of a resume.

As soon as I write this I think, sorry if this is what I think, how can the Athletic Department screw this one up? :eek:

GO DUKE!

[jtelander]

http://www.lsj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070418/GW0202/70418006/1001/news

[ikiru36]

A bit of background on each coach:

Joanne P. McCallie (aka 'Coach P'):
http://msuspartans.cstv.com/sports/w-baskbl/mtt/mccallie_joannep.00.html

Terri Mitchell:
http://gomarquette.cstv.com/sports/w-baskbl/mtt/mitchell_terri01.html

I have to agree that the situation is looking up for the Duke women. Let's hope the athletic department can determine which is the better fit, and seal the deal.

Terri Mitchell did play for the DUKES (of Duquesne that is). That oughta count for something! :0)

Pretty clearly, Coach P would be a VERY exciting hire (and we can certainly promise her improved weather). Mitchell appears to be a solid general candidate (though I'd hate for her to have to leave Marquette with her final game being a 30+ point tourney loss...)

[btw, I realize this isn't entirely fair as I wouldn't mind hiring a Coach K, just after the 1990 season!]

[SpartanFan85]

Coach P is a very good coach, but I am telling you, you don't want her. She likes to meddle in the men's program. She NEEDS to have EVERYTHING that the men's coach gets. That said, she is a good coach, but up in EL, the consensus is that we hope she goes.

[merry]

Even her husband being a conservative economist would be exactly what Duke needs.

He seems to have a bit of a temper.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070309/UPDATE/703090453

[SpartanFan85]

http://www.spartantailgate.com/forums/showthread.php?t=247019

[bluedevil]

Translation: PLEEEEEASE don't go coach McCallie! If you really wanted her gone, you wouldn't be badmouthing her to fans of a school trying to sign her, and MSU wouldn't have just signed her to a raise and contract extension. Duke fans are discussing the best candidates to move the program forward.

[SpartanFan85]

Translation: PLEEEEEASE don't go coach McCallie! If you really wanted her gone, you wouldn't be badmouthing her to fans of a school trying to sign her, and MSU wouldn't have just signed her to a raise and contract extension. Duke fans are discussing the best candidates to move the program forward.
Like I said she is a good coach, and if she doesn't go I personally won't be upset. If she does go, again, I won't be upset. Even the girls on the team don't like her. Either way, good luck on your coaching search.

[bluedevil]

Again, translation: PLEEEEASE stay Coach McCallie, you're the bestest coach ever! We'll see if your best players and recruits like Duke academics and athletics better than MSU and freezing in Lansing, are they still giving away houses up there for free? Alyssa Dehaan's premed, right?

[SpartanFan85]

Again, translation: PLEEEEASE stay Coach McCallie, you're the bestest coach ever!
So I'm trying to help you fans out and give you more info than you're going to get in the paper or in the news, and this is the crap i get? wow

[pratt '04]

ESPN Report: Duke to hire Michigan State's McCallie (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncw/columns/story?columnist=voepel_mechelle&id=2841774)

[bluedevil]

That's cool, I hear McCallie's a done deal anyway. What about Alyssa Dehaan, think she'd like a Duke degree and maybe go to Duke med school, does she want to win a national title? Duke needs post depth and she'd be great with all the topnotch guards Duke's been bringing in. Anybody else on the roster good enough for Duke?

[ikiru36]

He seems to have a bit of a temper.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070309/UPDATE/703090453

Sounds like someone needs a fresh start, in a new part of the country perhaps? Man, that cold weather up there'll make you do crazy things.

Seriously though, I would want to know that this was an isolated incident and that he is well regarded as a Professor (since I'm simply guessing that a package deal would be involved as regards her husband's employ).

If only Michigan State had been on Ms. Delle Donne's list of schools (though McCallie would be a good enough hire to try and woo her again, especially with the improved weather, facilities, and no dorky Izzone!)

[ikiru36]

That's cool, I hear McCallie's a done deal anyway. What about Alyssa Dehaan, think she'd like a Duke degree and maybe go to Duke med school, does she want to win a national title? Duke needs post depth and she'd be great with all the topnotch guards Duke's been bringing in. Anybody else on the roster good enough for Duke?

While such an occurance would be opportune (though, we've got a pretty darned good squad and recruiting class already), I have to say that such wishful poaching, unless fully instigated by the player herself, seems un-cool. Given concern about Duke's own current recruits considering Texas (or other schools) instead, I'd be very careful about wishing this on others. Just one of those things which seems like a poor idea, as regards karma and such.

[SpartanFan85]

That's cool, I hear McCallie's a done deal anyway. What about Alyssa Dehaan, think she'd like a Duke degree and maybe go to Duke med school, does she want to win a national title? Duke needs post depth and she'd be great with all the topnotch guards Duke's been bringing in. Anybody else on the roster good enough for Duke?
no possible way, her players could not stand her this year, especially Al. She becomes a diff person when she gets the LOI. There is a reason that we have had numerous transfers while P was here.

[Kewlswim]

While such an occurance would be opportune (though, we've got a pretty darned good squad and recruiting class already), I have to say that such wishful poaching, unless fully instigated by the player herself, seems un-cool. Given concern about Duke's own current recruits considering Texas (or other schools) instead, I'd be very careful about wishing this on others. Just one of those things which seems like a poor idea, as regards karma and such.


Hi,

I don't think that many Duke fans really want to poach anyone away. If a youngster wants to leave, for whatever reason, that is one thing--but actively going after a kid is a real no-no in my book and I think you will find in Duke's book too. I think every coach has transfers, Coach G had her share. Coach K too. I does not surprise me that Coach P has had some too.

Is it just me or is Duke going after the all consonant coaching staff? :D

GO DUKE!

[bluedevil]

Yeah but without McCallie, MSU is just a mediocre program at a mediocre school and conference in a miserable location. Allyssa Dehaan's premed, and Duke's the best big time athletic and academic school in the country, with one of the best med schools and premed programs, she can ask Bales and Emily Waner. McCallie kept getting better at MSU and Maine, her coaching style must work for her. Coach K has tons of transfers, doesn't stop the recruits from lining up. Unlike K, McCallie appears to play at least 9, and that's while trying to recruit in Lansing, with Duke's talent and recruiting ability, she should be able to go even deeper. Duke can use a superbig center like Dehaan since it had its best NCAA runs with Van Gorp and Bales.

Dehaan should hurry though if she wants a great future and national titles, Duke should take the first of either Dehaan or 6'6", 220lb, Ta'Shia Phillips.

[Kewlswim]

Yeah but without McCallie, MSU is just a mediocre program at a mediocre school and conference in a miserable location. Allyssa Dehaan's premed, and Duke's the best big time athletic and academic school in the country, with one of the best med schools and premed programs, she can ask Bales and Emily Waner. McCallie kept getting better at MSU and Maine, her coaching style must work for her. Coach K has tons of transfers, doesn't stop the recruits from lining up. Unlike K, McCallie appears to play at least 9, and that's while trying to recruit in Lansing, with Duke's talent and recruiting ability, she should be able to go even deeper. Duke can use a superbig center like Dehaan since it had its best NCAA runs with Van Gorp and Bales.

Dehaan should hurry though if she wants a great future and national titles, Duke should take the first of either Dehaan or 6'6", 220lb, Ta'Shia Phillips.


Hi,

I don't think you need to call MSU a "mediocre school." Bad mojo or something along those lines.

GO DUKE!

[adam]

It looks like it's a done deal...

The Chronicle story can be found here:
http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2007/04/18/News/Duke-Hires.New.Womens.Basketball.Coach-2849943.shtml

[Kewlswim]

Coach P is a very good coach, but I am telling you, you don't want her. She likes to meddle in the men's program. She NEEDS to have EVERYTHING that the men's coach gets. That said, she is a good coach, but up in EL, the consensus is that we hope she goes.

Hi,

Good luck going up against Coach K for stuff. I think this hire shows that Coach K is not running the show if she is in fact highly combative with the men's coach. Furthermore, if she wants everything the men's team has--after three or four (what the heck) national championships I am sure she will be able to get whatever she wants.

I don't think being a kids friend is a necessary pre-cursor to being successful on the playing field. Ugh I can't wait until Duke gets a football coach who has a chip the size of Lake Michigan on his shoulder and wills those kids to victory. Maybe a litlte fear and dislike will keep the Duke teams from all those false starts, off-sides, and stupid penalties.

I wanted Coach Boyle, she was without a doubt my second choice. Coach G being my first choice. I don't think Duke did too badly. This seems like a coach who can win a championship, or more, at Duke. Duke is, or should be, about winning championships the right way--so I don't like the idea of poaching kids.

GO DUKE!

[wxyz]

"..in 2005-06, she led the Spartans to their third straight 20-win campaign - a program first - with a 24-10 overall record. MSU finished in a tie for third in the conference standings at 11-5, McCallie's second-best league finish at MSU, and advanced to the semifinals of the Big Ten Tournament for the third consecutive year. The 24 victories in 2005-06 were the second most in a single season in school history..."

Is the above a good statement of our expectations?

[killerleft]

Yeah, if you think Duke is Michigan State, I guess that would do it for you. I feel there may be reason to think more optimistically, but if your glass has to be half empty, so be it.