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BlueintheFace
02-07-2009, 06:25 PM
Zou and Lance have been trading spots

Dave just had a great game

and then there is the old Nolan vs Greg debate

There has been a good deal of instability in the starting lineup recently

... so who gets the nod for Carolina? More importantly, who gets the minutes?

Moderator's note: This thread was formerly titled "Starters for UNC game?" It just seems like a lot of the pre-game analysis for the UNC game has already started in earnest here, so I'm making it official.

jv001
02-07-2009, 06:57 PM
Zou and Lance have been trading spots

Dave just had a great game

and then there is the old Nolan vs Greg debate

There has been a good deal of instability in the starting lineup recently

... so who gets the nod for Carolina? More importantly, who gets the minutes?

I want to react quickly to Dave's great game and say start him on hanstravel. But I'm not, I say start Zoubek on hans. I don't think hans is much quicker than Brian. So my starting line up would be:
Henderson
Singler
Scheyer
Zoubek
Paulus

#6 man...Nolan....15 mins
#7 man...McClure....25 mins
#8 man... Thomas...12 mins
a few mins...Williams, Plumlee and Marty

dukebballcamper90-91
02-07-2009, 07:01 PM
I think Greg starts, Nolan doesn't seem ready for big games, IMO. I think LT starts also just because he a little more energetic

CDu
02-07-2009, 07:04 PM
I want to react quickly to Dave's great game and say start him on hanstravel. But I'm not, I say start Zoubek on hans. I don't think hans is much quicker than Brian. So my starting line up would be:
Henderson
Singler
Scheyer
Zoubek
Paulus

#6 man...Nolan....15 mins
#7 man...McClure....25 mins
#8 man... Thomas...12 mins
a few mins...Williams, Plumlee and Marty

Hansbrough is substantially quicker than Zoubek.

jv001
02-07-2009, 07:06 PM
Hansbrough is substantially quicker than Zoubek.

That's if you throw in his travels. Go Duke!

dukestheheat
02-07-2009, 07:34 PM
Carolina is going to bring their track shoes for this basketball game.

So, it's not as important who starts; the focus is slowing/bothering Ty Lawson. Whether Paulus or Nolan Smith, whoever chooses to get that done is going to get more time.

I'm certain that the hated Holes will go right to their inside game and work to get our guys in foul trouble early, along with establishing their jet-speed transition game.

dth.

JDev
02-07-2009, 07:48 PM
I think Paulus probably starts, but this is a pivotal time for Nolan to regain his form, for obvious defensive reasons.
McClure will probably still come off the bench because he is unique in the sense that he can come in the game for basically anybody and fit in the line-up, as long as there is a ball-handler in the game. It gives Duke a great lift.

Newton_14
02-07-2009, 07:51 PM
I have to agree with CDu on this one. Hanswalk is like "a lot" quicker than Zoubs. That being said, Zoubs has guarded Hanswalk quite well in small stretches in past games. Especially down low. Out on the perimeter, not so much.

No matter who starts, I just hope all of our guys play at a high level Wednesday. The holes have taken some hits recently that has hurt their bench depth. Outside of Davis, the impact of their bench players has been greatly reduced on both ends of the floor. They will have to rely heavily on their starters the rest of the way. Their starting 5 is still very strong on the offensive end, no doubt, but they are definitely beatable.

FerryFor50
02-07-2009, 07:55 PM
I'm not that worried about Hansbrough's "perimeter" game. Z did just fine against "Psycho T" last season and was able to bother him with his size. I think he's also improved from last season, while Hanstravel has regressed a bit (still a solid player, though).

I'd start:

Nolan
McClure
Hendo
Singler
Zoubek

Bring Scheyer and Paulus off the bench early and often. Rotate Lance and Plumlee with McClure and Z.

Newton_14
02-07-2009, 08:17 PM
I'm not that worried about Hansbrough's "perimeter" game. Z did just fine against "Psycho T" last season and was able to bother him with his size. I think he's also improved from last season, while Hanstravel has regressed a bit (still a solid player, though).

I'd start:

Nolan
McClure
Hendo
Singler
Zoubek

Bring Scheyer and Paulus off the bench early and often. Rotate Lance and Plumlee with McClure and Z.

By "on the perimeter" I meant that Zoubs could have problems preventing hanswalk from driving past him. Down low I agree Zoubs defends him well.

Just curious, but why would you not start Jon? He played well today and has a history of giving Ellington fits...

FerryFor50
02-07-2009, 08:21 PM
By "on the perimeter" I meant that Zoubs could have problems preventing hanswalk from driving past him. Down low I agree Zoubs defends him well.

Just curious, but why would you not start Jon? He played well today and has a history of giving Ellington fits...

I liked the experiment by K last year where Scheyer came off the bench - I thought he played better then than when he started. I'd like to see the same experiment this year to try to get him out of his funk.

And I see your point about Hans-travel. Maybe K should throw a zone out there? :D

OldSchool
02-07-2009, 08:28 PM
I'd start:

Paulus
Scheyer
Henderson
Singler
McClure

My theory is we need the seniors, Greg and Dave to show the others the effort it will take to win this game. I'd bring Nolan and Lance/Z off the bench for lots of minutes, maybe a majority of minutes if they show their stuff.

Nolan needs to mentally get in the game. He's got the skills, he needs to focus in and concentrate 100%. We need him to be a big contributor if we want to achieve significant post-season success.

WojoSay?
02-07-2009, 08:30 PM
McClure and Paulus last year vs. Carolina in Cameron.

Greg
Jon
Gerald
Kyle
David

dukestheheat
02-07-2009, 08:55 PM
I say Jon starts b/c he, along with Henderson, is a strong defender. We are going to need to smother Carolina on the perimeter and negate that entry pass to the paint; if we can ratchet the pressure way up outside the arc, it's going to be a more competitive game, in my opinion.

We can win if we slow down their transition game, hit our free throws and play defense with great verve.

Do all these and Carolina delenda est.

dth.

Wheat/"/"/"
02-07-2009, 09:09 PM
"...Hanstravel has regressed a bit (still a solid player, though)."

Pretty funny stuff. NPOY, 3 time all Acc, soon to be 4, likely soon to be the Acc's all time leading scorer and the list could go on...

Ya think he's a solid player? Way to out on a limb there. You might want to think about giving this kid a little more respect, especially as he comes into your house to lead his team to a potential fourth straight win to close out his career there. BTW, the cute names to cut him down also get a little old guys, he should be called by his Indian name from his mothers side of the family, "Hansownsyou"...or Mr. Hansbrough at the very least.

How's that for my first post of rivalry week? :p

Kedsy
02-07-2009, 09:30 PM
I'd start:

Paulus
Scheyer
Henderson
Singler
McClure

My theory is we need the seniors, Greg and Dave to show the others the effort it will take to win this game. I'd bring Nolan and Lance/Z off the bench for lots of minutes, maybe a majority of minutes if they show their stuff.

Nolan needs to mentally get in the game. He's got the skills, he needs to focus in and concentrate 100%. We need him to be a big contributor if we want to achieve significant post-season success.

I suppose it doesn't really matter who starts, as opposed to who plays the most minutes, but I'm looking at this proposed lineup, which did very well against Miami in the 2nd half today, and wondering who would guard whom. If you put McClure on Hansbrough, he'll be serviceable but is giving up a lot of size. Still, Singler on Thompson, Henderson on Green, and Scheyer on Ellington seems good. But that leaves Paulus on Lawson, which in my opinion is a recipe for disaster. Conversely, if you put McClure on Lawson, then Paulus presumably would have to guard Ellington, which could be just as disastrous, Scheyer on Green, Henderson on Thompson and Singler on Hansbrough, and I'd be worried about all of them either wearing down or getting into foul trouble against larger opponents. And when Ed Davis comes in, I think we'd have even more trouble with this configuration. So I have my doubts about this particular lineup getting a lot of run together (unless Lawson gets into foul trouble or something).

Personally, I see either Nolan Smith or McClure shadowing Lawson all game, and keep rotating big bodies on Hansbrough to make him work for his free throws, and then let Scheyer, Henderson, and/or Singler handle Ellington, Green, and Thompson/Davis.

I know Paulus lit up UNC in the first game last year, but Lawson didn't play in that game and assuming nothing happens to Lawson I don't see Greg getting a great deal of run in this game, 15 minutes tops. I could be wrong, of course.

allenmurray
02-07-2009, 09:32 PM
McClure - 13 rebounds in 29 minutes. "Nuff said.

dukestheheat
02-07-2009, 09:44 PM
"...Hanstravel has regressed a bit (still a solid player, though)."

Pretty funny stuff. NPOY, 3 time all Acc, soon to be 4, likely soon to be the Acc's all time leading scorer and the list could go on...

Ya think he's a solid player? Way to out on a limb there. You might want to think about giving this kid a little more respect, especially as he comes into your house to lead his team to a potential fourth straight win to close out his career there. BTW, the cute names to cut him down also get a little old guys, he should be called by his Indian name from his mothers side of the family, "Hansownsyou"...or Mr. Hansbrough at the very least.

How's that for my first post of rivalry week? :p

you guys have affectionate 'love note' nicknames for OUR guys, too! Why give us a hard time for doing what you guys over there also do?

dth.

Wheat/"/"/"
02-07-2009, 09:55 PM
Just having a little fun wit cha...I had to work all day and missed the games, then out to a charity event and topped the evening off with a cocktail , which I rarely do....

OldSchool
02-07-2009, 09:56 PM
If you put McClure on Hansbrough, he'll be serviceable but is giving up a lot of size. Still, Singler on Thompson, Henderson on Green, and Scheyer on Ellington seems good. But that leaves Paulus on Lawson, which in my opinion is a recipe for disaster.

Yes, Paulus on Lawson and McClure on Hansbrough to start out. It may well be that we quickly have to go to the bench for defensive reasons, but I'd let the seniors start the game and have the opportunity to do something.

I would not have McClure on Lawson at all. If Lawson starts abusing Greg, we go to Nolan on Lawson.

And we see how many good minutes we can get out of Dave on Hans, but probably will need to go fairly quickly to Z/Lance.

JDev
02-07-2009, 09:56 PM
"...Hanstravel has regressed a bit (still a solid player, though)."

Pretty funny stuff. NPOY, 3 time all Acc, soon to be 4, likely soon to be the Acc's all time leading scorer and the list could go on...

Ya think he's a solid player? Way to out on a limb there. You might want to think about giving this kid a little more respect, especially as he comes into your house to lead his team to a potential fourth straight win to close out his career there. BTW, the cute names to cut him down also get a little old guys, he should be called by his Indian name from his mothers side of the family, "Hansownsyou"...or Mr. Hansbrough at the very least.

How's that for my first post of rivalry week? :p

I think everyone knows he is a solid player. I think what he meant was Hanstravel is not playing quite as well this year as he did last year. I don't know that I necessarily believe that, but I do think you could make an argument that that is the case.



Plus he travels a lot.

Rudy
02-07-2009, 10:19 PM
Greg will start at PG, partly because he had a great game today and partly because he's a senior. But Lawson's quickness gives him fits and therefore puts everyone else on Duke's defense under pressure. I expect Nolan will play the majority of minutes, unless Greg starts to shoot three's better than he has this season so far.

As someone said earlier this week, to beat the top competition Duke's big 3 all need to play well and GP and NS both need to play well, too.

dukelifer
02-07-2009, 10:30 PM
Greg will start at PG, partly because he had a great game today and partly because he's a senior. But Lawson's quickness gives him fits and therefore puts everyone else on Duke's defense under pressure. I expect Nolan will play the majority of minutes, unless Greg starts to shoot three's better than he has this season so far.

As someone said earlier this week, to beat the top competition Duke's big 3 all need to play well and GP and NS both need to play well, too.
I agree that Greg starts. He is a much better player when he starts. Last year at Chapel Hill he had a big game. Now Nolan will be needed- likely in the middle of the first half. By then, the jitters will be over and Lawson will be running. Carolina is thin at PG and thus we need to make Lawson work on D. Duke's play on him and his on Duke will determine how this game goes. Other than Hansbrough, the other matchups should be okay. Hansbrough is a big problem for Duke. One can only hope to get him in some sort of foul trouble- or hope he has a bad night. Duke will need an A game to win. They played an A half today- just need two of those.

GoingFor#5
02-07-2009, 10:35 PM
Paulus
Scheyer
G
McClure
Zoub

Plumlee should get a chance, he could match up well with Hanswalk. Might have to go with Nolan if Paulus is getting broken down, but I really want to see Paulus' energy in spots.

Rudy
02-07-2009, 10:56 PM
Paulus
Scheyer
G
McClure
Zoub

Plumlee should get a chance, he could match up well with Hanswalk. Might have to go with Nolan if Paulus is getting broken down, but I really want to see Paulus' energy in spots.

You start Dave over Kyle? Well, maybe as a tribute to his being a senior but he wouldn't keep Kyle on the bench very long.

Since Hanstravel draws a lot of fouls, we're likely to see at least three people try to guard him--LT, Z and Plumlee.

dbd4ever
02-07-2009, 11:53 PM
Just having a little fun wit cha...I had to work all day and missed the games, then out to a charity event and topped the evening off with a cocktail , which I rarely do....

Well, it's nice to see the mods on this site aren't afraid to let the holes fans post here!! It's nice to see a variety of fans and opinions on this board! I recently registered at scout.com and then applied for a screen name on insidecarolina.com. Needless to say my membership had to be approved by a moderator before I could officially become a member and it was denied. I guess they got scared when they saw the email address I used to register with.(dukebluedevils4ever@yahoo.com) Oh well, I tried.

-bdbd
02-08-2009, 01:09 AM
Paulus
Scheyer
G
McClure
Zoub

Plumlee should get a chance, he could match up well with Hanswalk. Might have to go with Nolan if Paulus is getting broken down, but I really want to see Paulus' energy in spots.

-------

I dunno, don't y'all think NC@chapel heeeel might be looking past us towards their Miami game?? ;-) Hey, I can hope, right?

I agree that Hanstravel might not be quite as dominant this year as last. But chalk that up to: (1) Injury out for the first month and (2) Teams are focusing on him more this year (lots of collapsing zones and back-side help defending him). He's still damn good, esp once you factor in the tremendous "respect" (cough, cough) the refs seem to give him... (Side note, if he does take the ACC scoring crown, anybody want to bet me that it WON'T be from the FT line when he does it???) He's also a big reason why NC@chapel heeeel benefits from such a disparity on foul calls in the league this year (statisically #1 in the ACC in that regard this year). :confused:

I think you'll see K tinker with a number of combos before settling on the optimal mix next Wed. But I do like Z starting as, said before, his height and bulk have bothered Hanstravel in the past. (But I would NOT try to have Z go out tightly on the primeter, but rather challenge him to beat us from the outside -- not perfect, but a good gamble.) Any reason we can't play Paulus and Smith at the same time, with Smith guarding the point and Paulus guarding the 2? And even if Smith isn't in, why not try rotating our fastest (?), most athletic defender to defend the point -- Gerald. Or do we think that creates too many problems elsewhere? In any event, whether or not he starts, look for Smith to get big-time minutes at PG.

My ideal starters for Wed. :
- Paulus (spelled frequently by Smith, if not having BOTH on the court simultaneously; but I like the idea of Greg NOT guarding the Point all the time when he's in)
- Scheyer (he seems to relish these games)
- Henderson (PLEEEASE be aggressive on offense!)
- Singler (looking for a "breakout" from the recent slump)
- Zoubs (don't wander very far from the paint - we can live with TH from 13' and out!)

Bench:
- McClure - to log over 20 minutes this night - will need help when guarding Hanstravel
- Smith - also gets 20+ min.
- Thomas - 15+ min.
- Plumlee - 10+ min. (relative agility/speed helps from a "big," & he's needed to absorb some TH defensive fouls)

Will go down to the last 5 minutes.....

:D

zingit
02-08-2009, 02:46 AM
-------
(Side note, if he does take the ACC scoring crown, anybody want to bet me that it WON'T be from the FT line when he does it???)

Hey, now, J.J. broke that record on a free throw, too.

I hope it lights a fire inside Zoubek/Thomas and Smith to see their starting positions potentially slipping away.

FerryFor50
02-08-2009, 07:05 AM
"...Hanstravel has regressed a bit (still a solid player, though)."

Pretty funny stuff. NPOY, 3 time all Acc, soon to be 4, likely soon to be the Acc's all time leading scorer and the list could go on...

Ya think he's a solid player? Way to out on a limb there. You might want to think about giving this kid a little more respect, especially as he comes into your house to lead his team to a potential fourth straight win to close out his career there. BTW, the cute names to cut him down also get a little old guys, he should be called by his Indian name from his mothers side of the family, "Hansownsyou"...or Mr. Hansbrough at the very least.

How's that for my first post of rivalry week? :p

I don't care what awards the "Great White Hope" gets (that a better nickname for him?) - I still don't see him as being very good. I see him as a player who gets away with walks, flops and defensive fouls. When a vast percentage of your points come from the FT line and you can't really dribble, something's a little.... off.

ClosetHurleyFan
02-08-2009, 07:21 AM
I don't care what awards the "Great White Hope" gets (that a better nickname for him?) - I still don't see him as being very good. I see him as a player who gets away with walks, flops and defensive fouls. When a vast percentage of your points come from the FT line and you can't really dribble, something's a little.... off.

Please tell me you are not serious.......guy averages 22 points a game, nearly 8 rebounds, in the ACC to boot, and you dont see him as very good? All because he shoots a lot of free throws and gets away with a few walks? Any chance that some of those free throws result from the fact that he is a relentless rebounder and has a tremendous footwork, and a knack for getting difficult shots off around the basket while drawing contact? But I dont guess there is any skill involved in that whatsoever.

One of the worst posts I have seen on here in a long long time and I have been coming here for about 5 years.

allenmurray
02-08-2009, 07:28 AM
One of the worst posts I have seen on here in a long long time and I have been coming here for about 5 years.

5 years and this is one of the worst posts you have seen? You must not come here very often. :D

FerryFor50
02-08-2009, 08:27 AM
Please tell me you are not serious.......guy averages 22 points a game, nearly 8 rebounds, in the ACC to boot, and you dont see him as very good? All because he shoots a lot of free throws and gets away with a few walks? Any chance that some of those free throws result from the fact that he is a relentless rebounder and has a tremendous footwork, and a knack for getting difficult shots off around the basket while drawing contact? But I dont guess there is any skill involved in that whatsoever.

One of the worst posts I have seen on here in a long long time and I have been coming here for about 5 years.

Yes, I'm serious.

I don't think he's that good, regardless of the numbers. Producing and being a great player are two different things in my book. Sure, they can be mutually exclusive, but there have been plenty of stiffs who produced and then didn't do much of anything when they played against guys who had actual talent.

Your comment about "tremendous footwork" actually has to be one of the most ridiculous posts I've seen in a long time. I suppose constantly shuffling your feet to get an advantage against the defender is the part you call "tremendous?" You're quick to dismiss his advantages from walks and getting to the line. Sure, he draws contact, but he's usually lowering his shoulder and initiating it.

gw67
02-08-2009, 08:28 AM
That post was ignorant, IMO, but far from the worst in the last five years. I've been watching ACC basketball for a very long time and I consider Hansbrough to be one of the top 15 conference players of all time. He has got a great motor and he never quits (Silas, Malone and Rodman come to mine). He is not a great run-jump athlete (like Jones of Miami, for example) but he is a terrific basketball player.

UNC is a very good team but they are certainly beatable, particularly, at CIS. The Devils need to play off Lawson and play tight on Green and Ellington to slow down their offense. Hansbrough will get his points and rebounds.

gw67

Wheat/"/"/"
02-08-2009, 08:41 AM
Been here posting on and off since 1996 I think ,maybe '95. Have maybe made 3 post at IC in that time. I did love the old wild west Dave Chen Tar Heel Talk days, but I digress. I will lurk to watch the kids play at IC so they don't step out in the road. When they do, I just tip my hat and say darn.

Julio, Bos and James back in the day had the good sense to moderate and not allow mean, nasty, flaming post from day one from anyone, Duke fan, Carolina fan or whoever, and thats why I have hung around. They took some heat for that early on, and the site has grown not in spite of that, but because of that. They were ahead of their time.

College basketball is sport and entertainment, not the Gaza peace process. We are all here to entertain ourselves, or maybe stimulate a little thought.

I am a life long UNC fan and I respect Duke basketball, and this site. But, part of the the enjoyment being a fan is tweaking my Duke friends when I can, and also the dance you do to avoid being tweaked when you're team is 8-20.
I don't think I have ever stepped over the line here, and if I do, it will be an accident and I will step up to apologize.
At the end of the day there will always be next season.

As for starting line ups, the one that you guys should be discussing and worrying about is this one:
Lawson
Ellington
Green
Thompson
Mr. Hansbrough
Tweak! :)

Wheat/"/"/"
02-08-2009, 08:55 AM
Ferryfor 50,

Give it up dude, and remember this is and intelligent board, the submit button is a dangerous thing.
Saying things like..."Yes, I'm serious. I don't think he's that good, regardless of the numbers." or " there have been plenty of stiffs who produced and then didn't do much of anything when they played against guys who had actual talent" (you mean like Duke?) is going to get you put in a corner with a pointy hat. And not by UNC fans, we are snickering in tha back of class, a Duke professor of hoops is gonna do it.

gw67
02-08-2009, 08:57 AM
Wheat - Your perspective is welcome.

Getting back to the original question, I would start

Paulus
Scheyer
Henderson
Singler
Zoubek

Paulus seems to be over his injuries and he brings more to the table than Smith at this time. Besides, Lawson, although a probable All ACC player, has not exactly torn the Devils apart in his career (10, 12 and 15 points in his three regular season games). I would play an extra step off him in the half court defense. There is no player in college who can stop him on the fast break so the team needs to run a good offense to limit those opportunities.

I like Zoubek starting out on Hansbrough. His size will be difficult to deal with close to the basket. I would then rotate McClure and Thomas with Zoubek.

gw67

bird
02-08-2009, 09:09 AM
This is Duke v. Carolina. Paulus totally starts.

DukeUsul
02-08-2009, 09:15 AM
I don't care what awards the "Great White Hope" gets (that a better nickname for him?) - I still don't see him as being very good. I see him as a player who gets away with walks, flops and defensive fouls. When a vast percentage of your points come from the FT line and you can't really dribble, something's a little.... off.

Don't you have to be playing defense to make a defensive foul?

Tweak! :D

No but seriously. I hope K experiments with the lineup to find the guys who are in offensive flow. We've been up and down (definitely down) in our offense over the last half-dozen games. The guys with the hot hands will need to play Wednesday. It doesn't need to be said that we can't be scoring in the 20's in the first half and expect our defense to bail us out. I don't think it matters much whether Nolan or Greg starts, because whoever runs our offense better will need to see more playing time. Last night it was Greg. If it's Greg again on Wednesday, I see him playing more than Nolan, and K living with the reduction in defensive foot speed at the point. We'll need to have an offensive rhythm early to keep with the Heels.

That being said, I envision we'll need to rotate lots of bodies onto "Mr. Hansbrough" in the paint. I hope to see Zoubek, Dave, LT and Miles get in and play short burst, hard minutes in the post. Not hard like elbow in the face hard, but close. Make him work hard to move when he has the ball. Force him to pass it back out (I know that's asking a lot) and let the wings play the passing lanes when he does. We WILL get called for plenty of fouls doing this, hence the need for lots of bodies, but hopefully it will disrupt UNC's offensive rhythm and allow us a few runouts.

I also hope - and this is the real hard part here - that we take some time this week (I say this knowing K must be doing this already) practicing running the offense through the post. We can't just pass around the outside and throw up jumpers and expect to win Wednesday. And during this practice the bigs need to have it hammered into them - get the ball and you have two options. 1) Turn and shoot - go up strong or 2) pass it back out. DO NOT put it on the floor.

Troublemaker
02-08-2009, 09:38 AM
Paulus will start and that's good. He clearly struggled coming off the bench this season, and additionally, I've always felt that he had a tendency to begin games shooting well, which he didn't get a chance to do coming off the bench. Therefore, I agree with Cameron that his shooting percentage will climb and, overall, he'll play better if he remains the starter at point guard, which is good for Duke. Nolan still needs to play half the game, though. We can't be shortsighted. If Nolan plays aggressively when he's in the game, there's a good chance things will click for him and he'll become a much better player a month from now than he is currently. I think he was about to turn a corner developmentally against UVA, when he attacked consistently and made plays in the lane; his game is just not conducive to always sitting back and waiting for the ball to swing to him for jumpshots. Unfortunately, the Clemson game then happened in which he played awful but so did the entire team; we ran into the wrong matchup at the wrong time for his development because he was not ready for that press. And now, even though Greg will take over as the starter, the coaching staff can not allow Nolan to sink here. Have him play and play aggressively and he will improve. His improvement into a consistent player is one of the three major ways Duke can improve as a team the rest of the season. The other two ways being Plumlee having the light switch on for him, and the shooters on this team shooting the way they can (and starting Paulus will help with the latter, as mentioned).

Fish80
02-08-2009, 09:46 AM
"...Hanstravel has regressed a bit (still a solid player, though)."

Pretty funny stuff. NPOY, 3 time all Acc, soon to be 4, likely soon to be the Acc's all time leading scorer and the list could go on...

Ya think he's a solid player? Way to out on a limb there. You might want to think about giving this kid a little more respect, especially as he comes into your house to lead his team to a potential fourth straight win to close out his career there. BTW, the cute names to cut him down also get a little old guys, he should be called by his Indian name from his mothers side of the family, "Hansownsyou"...or Mr. Hansbrough at the very least.

How's that for my first post of rivalry week? :p

Nice post wheat! Just curious, do sheep eat wheat? ;)

As long as we're having fun with nicknames, let's use psycho T's real Indian name in respect for his tremendous foot work: foot-sister-knot-bro.

Seriously, the dude is a Clydesdale with phenomenal hops. Maybe call him air-bud?

whereinthehellami
02-08-2009, 10:02 AM
Been here posting on and off since 1996 I think ,maybe '95. Have maybe made 3 post at IC in that time. I did love the old wild west Dave Chen Tar Heel Talk days, but I digress. I will lurk to watch the kids play at IC so they don't step out in the road. When they do, I just tip my hat and say darn.)

I remember that board (Dave Chen's Chat and Flame) and used to love to lurk and occasionally post there. You have always been a favorite UNC poster of mine.

I'm mixed on Hans. I think he's a great college player but think he will struggle in the pros for sure (like Redick). He would have looked great in a Duke jersey and he is player I respect for the smurfs.

This will be a tough game and the outcome will be decided by how the refs call the game. If either team has a key player get in foul trouble, that will be huge.

Devilsfan
02-08-2009, 10:21 AM
McClure on Lawson, Lance on Hanstravel, G on his homey, Kyle, and Smith (because of his speed) until his fourth first half TO, Z on Pine, Greg and Jon off the bench. Seven man rotation for this one game.

BlueintheFace
02-08-2009, 10:28 AM
N&O reports that K has Paulus in the starting lineup "for good."

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/story/1398065.html

Wheat/"/"/"
02-08-2009, 10:29 AM
I agree with Duke's best starting line up for this game being: Paulus,Scheyer,Henderson,Singler,Zoubek.

I see it coming down like this.
(1) For Duke to win they will need to force TO's in the half court, lots of them, and I think that is entirely possible. UNC is not the best team off the dribble or the quickest to the ball in the half court. If Duke can get back and set up in the passing lanes and take UNC out of a comfort level, it will go a long way.
(2) To do that, Duke better shoot lights out, and hope UNC struggles with their shot or this could be a 15 pt blowout.

Lawson and Hansbrough will cause you big problems. Ellington and Green could cause you big problems. Deon might, Davis might(My gut tells me to look out for a big game from him).

Henderson will cause UNC big problems. Scheyer and Singler could, Paulus might with shooting.

No secret, UNC is going inside first and will look to run. I would hate to know I had to stop that with this Duke lineup. I predict lots of crying at refs for inside calls, both sides, or expect HansIownU to score 30. I really feel like UNC will roll and win big. Duke is undermanned for this one, but I know rivalries and that it might not matter. Again, I believe a Duke hot shooting night is their only hope.

I could be wrong:)

DevilCastDownfromDurham
02-08-2009, 10:35 AM
I do think Greg has earned the chance to start this one with G, Kyle and Jon. I'm liking the idea of going small and trying to force tempo. And I'm grinning maliciously at the idea of running 10-11 guys out there and pressing/fast-breaking a UNC team with no depth. How ironic would it be to watch "slow, no-bench" Duke run "deep, lightning-fast" UNC off their feet? If we can keep the ball out of Lawson's hands they aren't an overwhelming team in terms of ball-handling so we may be able to force some TO's. Of course if Ellington stays as en fuego as he's been it may all be moot. Should be an interesting game, as always.

ncexnyc
02-08-2009, 10:49 AM
Brian/Hasbro
Nolan/Lawson
Jon/Ellington
Kyle/Thompson
G/Green
David will rotate turns on Ellington and Green
Lance & Miles will sub for Brian
Greg will sub for Nolan
Jon, G, and Kyle are in for some very long minutes

Nolan is key to slowing down Lawson and putting pressure on Ty so the entry passes to Hasbro are extremely difficult.

Let Hasbro get his, just make sure Green and Ellington don't go off for big games and we should be fine.

Remember, UNC has depth issues as well, so this could very well become a war of attrition.

dukemsu
02-08-2009, 10:53 AM
I don't care what awards the "Great White Hope" gets (that a better nickname for him?) - I still don't see him as being very good. I see him as a player who gets away with walks, flops and defensive fouls. When a vast percentage of your points come from the FT line and you can't really dribble, something's a little.... off.

Hans isn't playing as well this season. That said, he is likely to still be a first team AA. But watching him, you can tell he is not getting quite the same credit from the officials as he did last year, which bordered on ridiculous. He is also drifting outside more, where he really does not belong. It is almost as if he is trying to prove to people that he is a consistent 18 foot threat sometimes.

It was bound to happen. The more you see of someone, the more you notice the flaws or the things they do wrong.

dukemsu

Troublemaker
02-08-2009, 12:21 PM
Quick note. This thread was formerly titled "Starters for UNC game?" It just seems like a lot of the pre-game analysis for the UNC game has already started in earnest here, so I'm making it official.

MChambers
02-08-2009, 12:53 PM
" BTW, the cute names to cut him down also get a little old guys, he should be called by his Indian name from his mothers side of the family, "Hansownsyou"...or Mr. Hansbrough at the very least.

His native American name is "Walking Man", or so I hear.

Troublemaker
02-08-2009, 01:21 PM
Wheat, you're dreaming :-)

Look, it's hard to make too many definitive predictions for this game since Duke appears to be in the middle of an identity change, with Paulus taking over as the leader of the team and becoming a starter again, and McClure emerging as a clearly better player than either Thomas or Zoubek. Duke fans right now are very unsure of what Duke's rotation is going to look like for this game, which is unusual for a February matchup. For certain players like Zoubek and Smith -- I wouldn't be shocked either way if they played 5 minutes or 20. And any of McClure, Zoubek, or Thomas could start the game for Duke alongside the four other starters. There are a lot of question marks.

But the one thing I have a very hard time picturing is UNC "rolling" in this game. If UNC does win, it'll be in a very hard-fought game where they have to make clutch shots in the last five minutes to win it. I think you're underestimating how badly Duke and the crowd will want this game (especially the seniors who've gone winless in Cameron), and you're overestimating your defense.

UNC will score, of course, but I think Duke will do enough in the drive-and-kick game to make it competitive and win, especially with Danny Green unable to play the "4" much this season because Ginyard isn't around to play the "3". It'll be tougher for Green to come from the weakside and affect Duke's drives, which is where he killed Duke last season, unless he wants to leave either Henderson or Scheyer open for a jumper. Obviously, Duke has to make some perimeter shots to win but your comments suggest that a hot shooting night would be mostly luck. Not so in Cameron. Duke shoots the ball a lot better at home (although we did struggle shooting yesterday against Miami) and if Duke does have a hot shooting night against UNC, it'll be due to good ball movement and getting open shots off of penetration.

I think UNC is a better team than Duke but I think the homecourt and the intangibles make Duke more likely to win this game. And the only way I can picture UNC winning comfortably is if they decide to press the entire game and Duke is just unable to handle it ala Clemson, exposing a fatal flaw. But more than likely, UNC will just run its usual stuff and have to choose between giving up open jumpers or open layups.

dukelifer
02-08-2009, 01:33 PM
I agree with Duke's best starting line up for this game being: Paulus,Scheyer,Henderson,Singler,Zoubek.

I see it coming down like this.
(1) For Duke to win they will need to force TO's in the half court, lots of them, and I think that is entirely possible. UNC is not the best team off the dribble or the quickest to the ball in the half court. If Duke can get back and set up in the passing lanes and take UNC out of a comfort level, it will go a long way.
(2) To do that, Duke better shoot lights out, and hope UNC struggles with their shot or this could be a 15 pt blowout.

Lawson and Hansbrough will cause you big problems. Ellington and Green could cause you big problems. Deon might, Davis might(My gut tells me to look out for a big game from him).

Henderson will cause UNC big problems. Scheyer and Singler could, Paulus might with shooting.

No secret, UNC is going inside first and will look to run. I would hate to know I had to stop that with this Duke lineup. I predict lots of crying at refs for inside calls, both sides, or expect HansIownU to score 30. I really feel like UNC will roll and win big. Duke is undermanned for this one, but I know rivalries and that it might not matter. Again, I believe a Duke hot shooting night is their only hope.

I could be wrong:)

It is interesting that in the last 3 meetings at Duke where UNC has won, the margin has been (7) (6) and (8) . They shot (44%) (50%) (40%) vs (41%)(42%)(33%) for Duke.

In the last 2 games at UNC where Duke has won, the margin has been (4) and (9) and Duke has shot (49%) and (45%) vs (40%) (40%) for UNC.

So all these games have been relatively close but the margin of shooting percentage is telling. Now one may think that the winning team always shoots better, but for this Duke team this year - that has definitely not been the case. Georgetown, Miami, Davidson, Rhode Island, Georgia Tech, Montana have all had higher shooting percentages and have manage to lose to Duke. I am not sure what any of this really means but Wheat is probably right that good shooting has been needed by Duke to win against UNC. So how Duke shoots in the first half will be telling. But a blowout is somewhat rare of late. It is also interesting that in the past 4 Duke-UNC games, Paulus has had 15, 21, 18 and 15 points. Greg has had a history of playing well against UNC and could be key on Wed.

JDev
02-08-2009, 03:57 PM
Duke desperately needs very solid games from two guys who haven't been playing well as of late. Nolan needs to play solid, and his on-the-ball defense and familiarity will be important in slowing Lawson. In addition to that, Nolan has been Duke's fourth double figure scorer for most of the year, and any increased offense from him will be welcome. To a lesser degree, Zoubek needs to give some quality minutes guarding Hans. Zoubek doesn't need to be a stud necessarily, just pound on him a bit and make him shoot over his 7'2frame. I imagine K and his staff are trying some things to get these guys some confidence back, like putting together a video package of Nolan's highlights, and telling him that that is the type of player he is, not the one we saw for 7 minutes against Miami.

Singler getting into a groove will also play a large roll. Thompson or Hans or Davis, or whoever the second big may be, do not match up well with Singler, assuming Singler is playing like he can/should. UNC's guards do not match up well either, and if they move Green to Singler, G becomes a bigger threat. This is where Ginyard's loss is felt.

I know it is an oversimplification, but ultimately it is going to come down to how well Duke shoots the ball. If they have a Clemson, Miami 1st half, etc. shooting game it will be basically impossible to win. If they have an Xavier, Miami 2nd half shooting game, they could be in business. Apart from the Clemson debacle, Duke usually gets shots. Whether they make those shots or not is a different story. I would not put UNC's defense on the level of some of the other league team's Duke has faced, namely Clemson and FSU. That being said, I would imagine that UNC plays harder defensively this game then they have any other time this year. Should be a fun game, as usual.

dukestheheat
02-08-2009, 04:57 PM
I agree with Duke's best starting line up for this game being: Paulus,Scheyer,Henderson,Singler,Zoubek.

I see it coming down like this.
(1) For Duke to win they will need to force TO's in the half court, lots of them, and I think that is entirely possible. UNC is not the best team off the dribble or the quickest to the ball in the half court. If Duke can get back and set up in the passing lanes and take UNC out of a comfort level, it will go a long way.
(2) To do that, Duke better shoot lights out, and hope UNC struggles with their shot or this could be a 15 pt blowout.

Lawson and Hansbrough will cause you big problems. Ellington and Green could cause you big problems. Deon might, Davis might(My gut tells me to look out for a big game from him).

Henderson will cause UNC big problems. Scheyer and Singler could, Paulus might with shooting.

No secret, UNC is going inside first and will look to run. I would hate to know I had to stop that with this Duke lineup. I predict lots of crying at refs for inside calls, both sides, or expect HansIownU to score 30. I really feel like UNC will roll and win big. Duke is undermanned for this one, but I know rivalries and that it might not matter. Again, I believe a Duke hot shooting night is their only hope.

I could be wrong:)

with Duke/Carolina games over many years, you can throw a lot of stuff out the window when it comes to predicting score or margin!

Certainly, I agree with you that the Holes will run hard and also that they will first work to establish their paint presence; after that, though, throw off all bets because Duke and Carolina have something special going that just defies logic. They raise the bar for each other. On a side note, admit it, your guys have ALWAYS liked coming over to Duke to play at Cameron!? Am I wrong?

dth.

concrete
02-08-2009, 07:59 PM
Brian/Hasbro
Nolan/Lawson
Jon/Ellington
Kyle/Thompson
G/Green
David will rotate turns on Ellington and Green
Lance & Miles will sub for Brian
Greg will sub for Nolan
Jon, G, and Kyle are in for some very long minutes

Nolan is key to slowing down Lawson and putting pressure on Ty so the entry passes to Hasbro are extremely difficult.

Let Hasbro get his, just make sure Green and Ellington don't go off for big games and we should be fine.

Remember, UNC has depth issues as well, so this could very well become a war of attrition.


if Paulus starts then I don't see Nolan playing enough to make an impact unless we go totally small , which we can't do against UNC's frontline. Which means we are going to get exposed from the PG spot and I see alot of easy baskets inside for UNC.

I don't see how we start Zoub and I don't see him being effetive. This is the type of team he tends not to do well against. If you start Lance then he'll be in foul trouble within 5 minutes. I would say start McClure or Plumlee but I doubt that will happen.

this is who i would start

Nolan
Scheyer
G
McClure
Kyle

let see if McClure can handle playing Tyler , if not then throw Lance in.

DukeDevilDeb
02-08-2009, 08:02 PM
-------


I think you'll see K tinker with a number of combos before settling on the optimal mix next Wed. But I do like Z starting as, said before, his height and bulk have bothered Hanstravel in the past. (But I would NOT try to have Z go out tightly on the primeter, but rather challenge him to beat us from the outside -- not perfect, but a good gamble.) Any reason we can't play Paulus and Smith at the same time, with Smith guarding the point and Paulus guarding the 2? And even if Smith isn't in, why not try rotating our fastest (?), most athletic defender to defend the point -- Gerald. Or do we think that creates too many problems elsewhere? In any event, whether or not he starts, look for Smith to get big-time minutes at PG.

My ideal starters for Wed. :
- Paulus (spelled frequently by Smith, if not having BOTH on the court simultaneously; but I like the idea of Greg NOT guarding the Point all the time when he's in)
- Scheyer (he seems to relish these games)
- Henderson (PLEEEASE be aggressive on offense!)
- Singler (looking for a "breakout" from the recent slump)
- Zoubs (don't wander very far from the paint - we can live with TH from 13' and out!)

Bench:
- McClure - to log over 20 minutes this night - will need help when guarding Hanstravel
- Smith - also gets 20+ min.
- Thomas - 15+ min.
- Plumlee - 10+ min. (relative agility/speed helps from a "big," & he's needed to absorb some TH defensive fouls)

Will go down to the last 5 minutes.....

:D

I agree that K will tinker, as he should. All the guys have good nights, and he should capitalize on that by giving the persons having good nights more time.

But WHAT IN THE WORLD makes you think that Nolan should get 20+ minutes? Of all the Blue Devils, he is the one I'm most disappointed with. Yes, he is fast... fast at losing the ball, fast at having the ball stripped... in fact, in the Clemson game, he was the fastest to look like a deer in the headlights... though several people had copied that look by the end of the game.

Look, I know Paulus can't guard Lawson, but I'm not at all convinced that Nolan can either. And while we give something up on the defense with Greg in, his leadership and (praise God) his 3-pointers... and his guts--which were worth one heck of a lot during the Miami game--are absolutely essential if we are to beat UNC on Wednesday.

If Dave and Greg were a little more... well, Dave a little more offensively talented and Greg a little more defensively quick, we would be a really good team. They are the guys we need to ride on til G or Kyle or Scheyer gets going.

GTHC :D:D:D

concrete
02-08-2009, 08:18 PM
I agree that K will tinker, as he should. All the guys have good nights, and he should capitalize on that by giving the persons having good nights more time.

But WHAT IN THE WORLD makes you think that Nolan should get 20+ minutes? Of all the Blue Devils, he is the one I'm most disappointed with. Yes, he is fast... fast at losing the ball, fast at having the ball stripped... in fact, in the Clemson game, he was the fastest to look like a deer in the headlights... though several people had copied that look by the end of the game.

Look, I know Paulus can't guard Lawson, but I'm not at all convinced that Nolan can either. And while we give something up on the defense with Greg in, his leadership and (praise God) his 3-pointers... and his guts--which were worth one heck of a lot during the Miami game--are absolutely essential if we are to beat UNC on Wednesday.

If Dave and Greg were a little more... well, Dave a little more offensively talented and Greg a little more defensively quick, we would be a really good team. They are the guys we need to ride on til G or Kyle or Scheyer gets going.

GTHC :D:D:D


I think we all agree Nolan has been slumping but just like Scheyer kept getting his minutes so should Nolan. Nolan had some bad games but overall he's played better than anyone else at the PG position. He's our 4th leading scorer and at 36% one of our best 3 point shooters also one of our best FT shooters. He's also our best defender at the PG position.

DukeDevilDeb
02-08-2009, 08:20 PM
McClure on Lawson, Lance on Hanstravel, G on his homey, Kyle, and Smith (because of his speed) until his fourth first half TO, Z on Pine, Greg and Jon off the bench. Seven man rotation for this one game.

This, my friend, is a recipe for disaster! :eek: As I posted above, Smith is really fast but his recent performances have shown that speed is NOT enough.

And Lance on Psycho T??? How long do you think it would take Lance to foul out? Do I hear 5 minutes...?!?!?

DukeDevilDeb
02-08-2009, 08:26 PM
I think we all agree Nolan has been slumping but just like Scheyer kept getting his minutes so should Nolan. Nolan had some bad games but overall he's played better than anyone else at the PG position. He's our 4th leading scorer and at 36% one of our best 3 point shooters also one of our best FT shooters. He's also our best defender at the PG position.

Your point about getting minutes is well taken. But I don't understand what you mean when you say "Nolan has played better than anyone else at the PG position." He is certainly faster than Greg and defensively better. But the PG on offense is really key, and that has been a problem all year with Nolan starting.

Where is Bobby Hurley when you need him??? :D

rockymtn devil
02-08-2009, 08:33 PM
Jumping right in to the lineup discussion, I think Duke needs to try hard to get a lineup that forces Hansbrough to guard Singler. As we saw last year in Chapel Hill, yes, TH's size makes it hard for Duke to stop him. But, he had no answer for Singler when we had the ball. If Hansbrough guards Singer close, Kyle will blow by him. If he backs off, Singler can shoot open jump shots.

I think, at least to start the game, I'd like to see Duke go small and see how that works. If we must go to Z/Lance in order to slow down Hansbrough, so be it.

91devil
02-08-2009, 08:59 PM
By the way, in case it hasn't been mentioned in this post or any other, let's congratulate Gerald Henderson for reaching the 1,000 point plateau in his career on Saturday (now has 1,001 points).

His last basket on Saturday, the very nice fadeaway late in overtime (which essentially sealed the game), put him over the top.

Well done, Gerald.

BlueintheFace
02-08-2009, 09:08 PM
turn the volume UP!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWxq32f8QLE&feature=related

chris13
02-08-2009, 09:10 PM
Here's my question. Duke played two bad halves against Clemson, a bad half against Miami, and then a really good half against Miami. The players in the game for that good half were Paulus, McClure, Henderson, Scheyer, and Singler.

Why won't those guys be the starters on Wed night? Forget about North Carolina for a second and think about what combination worked the best and played with intensity for Duke.

And while there might be some issues about interior defense, that line-up also present some challenges for UNC to try and guard. UNC will have two bigs, Thompson and Hansbrough, and each of them will have to guard a perimeter player. Even if one of them takes McClure, who isn't much of a scoring threat, the other is going to have to guard Singler.

Plus, without Ginyard and Graves, UNC really is going to have to a hard time sliding Green over to the 4 and going with 1 big and 4 wings as they have in the past against Duke.

BlueintheFace
02-08-2009, 09:18 PM
Paulus has averaged ~17ppg and ~ 18 floorburns/gm in the last 4 contests with Carolina.

In other words, he likes the rivalry game baby!

concrete
02-08-2009, 09:23 PM
Here's my question. Duke played two bad halves against Clemson, a bad half against Miami, and then a really good half against Miami. The players in the game for that good half were Paulus, McClure, Henderson, Scheyer, and Singler.

Why won't those guys be the starters on Wed night? Forget about North Carolina for a second and think about what combination worked the best and played with intensity for Duke.

And while there might be some issues about interior defense, that line-up also present some challenges for UNC to try and guard. UNC will have two bigs, Thompson and Hansbrough, and each of them will have to guard a perimeter player. Even if one of them takes McClure, who isn't much of a scoring threat, the other is going to have to guard Singler.

Plus, without Ginyard and Graves, UNC really is going to have to a hard time sliding Green over to the 4 and going with 1 big and 4 wings as they have in the past against Duke.

Well Paulus played heavy minutes in those losing 3 quarters. He did help us during Miami tremdously but it's Miami and we were at home. He started that game and the initial hole we got in was with him Scheyer Hendo on the floor

Wander
02-08-2009, 09:34 PM
Jumping right in to the lineup discussion, I think Duke needs to try hard to get a lineup that forces Hansbrough to guard Singler.

I remember last year, Singler picked up five fouls on Deon Thompson at will. The term "at will" gets thrown around too loosely, but I mean it literally here. If the refs had let Deon stay in the game, Singler could have easily picked up a 6th, 7th, and 8th foul on Deon. It was a hilarious display of dominance.

mgtr
02-08-2009, 09:39 PM
He [Paulus] started that game and the initial hole we got in was with him Scheyer Hendo on the floor
Well, sir, you make a valid point. Certainly during the first few minutes the starters did not acquit themselves well. However, the real jump in the score ,as I recall, was when Pocius, Smith, Williams and others came in for a brief period, and we were minus 8 (at least) in that little run. And there is little doubt that Paulus played an important part in our second half (and overtime) run.

MarkD83
02-08-2009, 09:39 PM
I can' t believe that I am agreeing with a Tarheel fan, but...

Chris13 posted the same thoughts I had. Duke should not put a lineup on the floor to try to match UNC. They should put a lineup on the floor to maximize Duke's strength.

This fits in with one of my pet peeves about analyses of Duke this year. "Experts" say Duke "has no post presence" is "not quick enough to drive to the basket", "relies too much on three-point shots". All of this may be true but in a search to address those weaknesses everyone forgets about the matchup headaches Duke can create and that by some miracle Duke is 20-3.

So my "most minutes" lineup

Paulus
G
McClure
Singler
Scheyer

This lineup will create the biggest matchup headaches for UNC when Duke is on offense. While it is true that if this lineup does not shoot the ball well Duke will lose, this logic points to another pet peeve. (Caps for emphasis.) IF ANY TEAM SHOOTS POORLY THEY WILL LOSE. If UNC shoots 30% they will lose.

So we need to get over trying to fit Duke into a set mold of what a college basketball team should be and think about what strengths Duke has.

concrete
02-08-2009, 09:46 PM
Well, sir, you make a valid point. Certainly during the first few minutes the starters did not acquit themselves well. However, the real jump in the score ,as I recall, was when Pocius, Smith, Williams and others came in for a brief period, and we were minus 8 (at least) in that little run. And there is little doubt that Paulus played an important part in our second half (and overtime) run.


Well the official boxscore shows Nolan at 7 minutes and I'm sure Pocius and Ewilliams didn't play that much. Not to mention you wouldn't expect that lineup to produce too much offense. Either way, I think it shows historically that UNC has 3 straight wins at Cameron and I think we all know who started those games.

if we can contain lawson we may win but if we have to help off on Lawson then its going to be a long night. And floorburns don't equal points

rockymtn devil
02-08-2009, 09:47 PM
I remember last year, Singler picked up five fouls on Deon Thompson at will. The term "at will" gets thrown around too loosely, but I mean it literally here. If the refs had let Deon stay in the game, Singler could have easily picked up a 6th, 7th, and 8th foul on Deon. It was a hilarious display of dominance.

At first I misread this as you saying that Kyle fouled out, which I knew wasn't correct.

But, you're right. Carolina had no one to guard Singler last year in Chapel Hill, be it TH or Thompson. Although Singler struggled a bit in the game in Durham, I'd still like Duke to test early whether the Heels can guard him.

bballfan
02-09-2009, 07:39 AM
Has UNC ever won 4 in a row in Cameron?

chris13
02-09-2009, 08:25 AM
Wake Forest from 1994 to 1997 and North Carolina from 1982 to 1985.

Highlander
02-09-2009, 09:16 AM
But I think offensive rebounding will be a huge stat in this game, and I think Duke can hold their own here.

Dave McClure doesn't generate offense, but he does two things very well - play defense and rebound the ball. We were able to climb back into the Miami game this weekend primarily because of our work on the offensive glass. We have also played well on the boards for most of the year, including outrebounding a much bigger Wake Forest team. If our shots are not falling, attacking the glass for putbacks not only negates our poor shooting, but it also prevents UNC from starting their deadly fast break offense. Plus limiting UNC to one shot on their missed FGs will help tremendously. I think Duke wins if the outrebound UNC on the glass.

My starting 5 would be:
Paulus
Henderson
Scheyer
Singler
Zoubek

I start Zoubeck over Dave only b/c I think Brian can frustrate Hansbrough on defense moreso than the rest of our guys. If I'm wrong, bring in McClure and spell him with Thomas for the rest of the game. Matchups on defense are a problem. I would probably have Zoubek guard Hansbrough initially, but rotate defenders through the game to see who is most effective. I would probably try Scheyer on Lawson in the half court, and rotate the coverage as well to see what is effective. Since we switch on every screen, it probably isn't that important who is assigned from the start of the play, as the coverage will likely be different by the end.

Hansbrough and Lawson are matchup problems for us. Henderson and Singler are matchup problems for UNC. I wouldn't be surprised to see one of those four go off, but for some reason think there may be an unsung hero in this one (Green, Paulus, etc). At any rate, that covers my bases so every contingency is addressed :)

Prediction. Game in the high 70s with Duke winning by 2.

jv001
02-09-2009, 10:03 AM
I see match up problems for Duke and unc. But the one thing that concerns me will unc play off McClure and dare him to shoot from outside. If they do this it will be hard for Gerald and Kyle to drive to the basket and that's a big part of Coach K's offense. However what Dave can do is rebound on the offensive end of the court. So he could hurt them there. I worry more about lawson beating us off the dribble more than hastravel beating us on the inside. We've been outrebounded before and still won. I can't think of a Duke-unc game where I've had so many questions going into the game. Before the Clemson game I didn't have these questions but now I do. I look for Duke to really be agressive at the beginning, but it will still come down to us hitting our outside shots. I'm still going with my original starting five of: Kyle, Brian, Jon, Greg and Gerald. Something tells me that Nolan could make a difference coming off the bench. Go Duke!

davekay1971
02-09-2009, 10:11 AM
I may be crazy to feel this way (heck, I feel a little crazy to feel this way) but I like our matchups on this game.

1: Lawson vs. Smith/Paulus: Lawson has an edge over either Smith or Paulus, but it's not the quantum leap that some people make it out to be. Smith, if he plays to his potential, can stay in front of Lawson and can have some success creating his shot against Lawson at the other end. Paulus will have more difficulty keep Lawson out of the lane, which is crucial to our defensive effeciency, but I like what Paulus has done in the past with Lawson guarding him.

2: Ellington vs. Scheyer - these two will probably gaurd eachother. Ellington has been shooting well, but he's also been getting open looks against defensively weaker teams. Ellington needs open looks to score effectively. Against one of the best teams in the nation at gaurding the perimeter? Could be a frustrating night for him. Scheyer has contained him in the past and will probably do so again. The same story is true if Scheyer matches up against Green - he can really limit either of those two guys. Hopefully Jon found some confidence in the Miami game that will help him to contribute some points at the other end, but, frankly, that hasn't been reliable lately.

3: Henderson vs. Green - we have the clear advantage here. Green's big enough to cause G some problems, but G is much quicker and should be able to create his own shot against Green. G also has a quickness advantage over Ellington, who's not quite as tall as Green, and may have even more trouble guarding G. On the other side of the ball, Hendo is a great defender and both of those guys will have trouble getting looks against him in the half court set.

4: Hansbrough vs. Singler - It'll be interesting to see if K has Singler guard Hans or whether he tries to have a rotation of Thomas, McClure, Zoubs, etc guard him. The fear, of course, is that the refs will saddle Singler up with fouls if he guards Beaker. If Singler does match up with him, I think we'll all see that Singler is a hell of a lot stronger than he was last year. You get the feeling he'd probably enjoy the challenge of banging with Beaker all day. At the other end, Singler is a matchup nightmare for Carolina. Beaker, Davis, and Thompson can't keep up with him outside. If Singler's 3 pointer and mid-range jumper are on (and I really hope they are), he'll wear out whoever Carolina has guard him. As with Scheyer, I really hope that Kyle is finding his shot as we speak.

5: Obviously an advantage for Carolina. Davis and Thompson have both been strong contributors this year, and Hans, on the low post, is, of course, the Greatest Player Ever to Play The Game, The Hardest Worker in the History of History, etc, etc. Zoubs, Thomas, and Plumlee will all have to bring their best. Of those three, Thomas will probably give us the most, given the way Carolina will try to force the pace. However, if Zoubs can get some position on the low post, he has advantages Carolina can't counter - he's bigger and stronger than Davis, and about 5 inches taller than Beaker. We've all been waiting for him to play aggressively against good competition - how nice would it be to see a coming out party for him on Wednesday night? I'm not counting on it, of course...

Bench: not the advantage for Carolina that it was once perceived to be. For the sake of argument, let's say we start Smith and Zoubs (just go with me, since we have to make some guesses here). They bring Frasor, we bring Paulus (I'll take Greg, and then some). They bring Thompson, we bring Thomas. They bring Drew II, we bring Williams. We bring McClure, Pocius, Plumlee, they bring...who? Carolina suddenly has a pretty thin bench. They go 8 deep, and there's a signficant fall-off even at that level. We go 9, 10, even 11 deep if we need to. Of course we have a fall-off as well, but our bench may be, at this point, better than theirs.

Carolina will be favored, and, given the way we've struggled the last 3 games, they should be. If they can get it into their type of game, with runouts and open looks from outside, they win. If we can avoid turnovers and limit their runouts, however, I think we're the better team in a half court game. BC and FSU are both teams that are significantly weaker than Carolina in terms of talent...but both got Carolina in a banging, physical half-court game, and we all saw the results.

It's our house. We have the best player on the court (Sorry Beaker...since mid January, that would be Mr. Henderson). We have the better coach. I think we win. But I'm not betting the house on it. :rolleyes:

davekay1971
02-09-2009, 10:18 AM
I see match up problems for Duke and unc. But the one thing that concerns me will unc play off McClure and dare him to shoot from outside. If they do this it will be hard for Gerald and Kyle to drive to the basket and that's a big part of Coach K's offense. However what Dave can do is rebound on the offensive end of the court. So he could hurt them there. I worry more about lawson beating us off the dribble more than hastravel beating us on the inside. We've been outrebounded before and still won. I can't think of a Duke-unc game where I've had so many questions going into the game. Before the Clemson game I didn't have these questions but now I do. I look for Duke to really be agressive at the beginning, but it will still come down to us hitting our outside shots. I'm still going with my original starting five of: Kyle, Brian, Jon, Greg and Gerald. Something tells me that Nolan could make a difference coming off the bench. Go Duke!

Good point about McClure. But if he keeps moving, forcing his man to follow him, it prevents his man from playing a one-man zone down low. McClure is good at cuts toward the basket, at finishing, and at offensive rebounds. For those three reasons, Carolina will at least have to defend him. And he create's a matchup problem of his own. In a lineup of Paulus/Smith, Hendo, Scheyer, Singler, and McClure...who guard's Dave, and who guards Kyle? Does Roy put Beaker on Kyle and Thompson or Davis on McClure? Or does he ask Davis or McClure to try to deal with Kyle on the perimeter.

The more I think about it, the more I think that Kyle can create the kind of matchup problems for Carolina that Davis and Hill created for UNLV in 91, when the rebs had a traditional 5 trying to deal with Laettner and had to have Grandmama chase either Hill or Davis (I think Tark the Towel put Augmon on Hill). The only problem...Zoubs ain't Laettner. Alas.

davekay1971
02-09-2009, 10:26 AM
Is best expressed by the always eloquent Conan the Barbarian:

"What is good in life, Conan?"

"Crush your enemies...see them driven before you...hear the lamentation of their women."

Hopefully we'll hear a lot of lamentation in the bars of Franklin Street on Wednesday night...

Wheat/"/"/"
02-09-2009, 10:27 AM
A few random thoughts this morning....

I may actually be dreaming when I say UNC could win in a blow out, but I don't mean the sort of game like Duke had last week with Clemson, They were on their "Heels" (pun intended) that whole game. It won't be like that in Cameron.

I'm making the assumption that UNC plays to their potential. You gotta start somewhere, right?

I can see UNC leading at the half by 8, and stretching the start of the second half by another 4, and taking to the line late for a 16 pt win. It will be a battle, not a dominating type game, but I believe UNC can/should do that, even with Duke playing reasonably well. We'll see.

Duke can take UNC wings off the dribble in the half court. UNC players are bigger, stronger, but not as quick. Duke will do the drive and kick out. Making those kick out shots is their main hope to win, I believe. If they are missing, UNC is a solid rebounding team and will get it back up the floor. Duke's driving is another reason I think we could see a big game from the freshman Davis. He's a shot blocker and a big time talent, just young. He is close to taking away Thompson's starting spot, and I think he will get major time in this game to protect the rim. This game has all the table settings for him to make some breakout plays in the post.
Lawson didn't play in the Duke win last year. It mattered, not an excuse just a fact.
I just don't see Duke having an answer for Lawson. If he protects the ball, which he seems to have really improved upon this season, he will get by anyone Duke puts on him and control the game. Then it's HansIownU inside or Ellington and Green shooting the kickout 3. Deon Thompson has a sweet low post offensive game too, and even he could surprise in this one offensively. I assume Singler is on him most of the time, and I'd give Deon the advantage low in the block, especially if Duke puts too much energy defending TH.
Don't forget Lawsons been shooting it well.
There's danger lurking from behind every corner for Duke, they will have to really play well to win this year.
Final thought for now...UNC's defense is better that people give them credit for. At Cameron last season with Lawson on the floor they held Duke to 33% shooting and had 15 blocked shots, winning by 8. This years team is better, more experienced.
We all know this is just speculation. You can truly throw out reason in this game as the past has proven. It's why the game gets played.

jv001
02-09-2009, 10:28 AM
Good point about McClure. But if he keeps moving, forcing his man to follow him, it prevents his man from playing a one-man zone down low. McClure is good at cuts toward the basket, at finishing, and at offensive rebounds. For those three reasons, Carolina will at least have to defend him. And he create's a matchup problem of his own. In a lineup of Paulus/Smith, Hendo, Scheyer, Singler, and McClure...who guard's Dave, and who guards Kyle? Does Roy put Beaker on Kyle and Thompson or Davis on McClure? Or does he ask Davis or McClure to try to deal with Kyle on the perimeter.

The more I think about it, the more I think that Kyle can create the kind of matchup problems for Carolina that Davis and Hill created for UNLV in 91, when the rebs had a traditional 5 trying to deal with Laettner and had to have Grandmama chase either Hill or Davis (I think Tark the Towel put Augmon on Hill). The only problem...Zoubs ain't Laettner. Alas.

I agree that Dave will be constantly moving without the ball and could hurt unc on the backboards(like Miami). I think you meant to say Davis or Thompson on Kyle out on the perimeter. Either will have his hands full. I know Zoubs is not a star but I really believe he can cause hanstravel some problems on inside. I have been wondering if a tightly called game benefits us or hurts us. unc bench has been shortened by injuries and our bench has been shortened for whatever reason(will not go there). Can't wait till Wednesday. Go Duke!

Wander
02-09-2009, 10:40 AM
I assume Singler is on him most of the time, and I'd give Deon the advantage low in the block, especially if Duke puts too much energy defending TH.

Deon Thompson doesn't have the advantage on Singler in anything. Not down low, not up high, not in basketball or basket weaving or beer pong or checkers or rock-paper-scissors. He's completely inferior.

Wheat/"/"/"
02-09-2009, 10:59 AM
Deon is bigger, stronger than Singler. In the post that matters.
Last years game in Cameron:

Deon 7 pts., 5 blocks, 9 rebounds, 0 turnovers. 24 minutes of play.
Singler 10 pts, 0 blocks, 8 rebounds, 3 turnovers. 37 minutes of play.

I would argue that's a better stat line for Thompson, and proof that he can't be forgotten about.

davekay1971
02-09-2009, 11:00 AM
I agree that Dave will be constantly moving without the ball and could hurt unc on the backboards(like Miami). I think you meant to say Davis or Thompson on Kyle out on the perimeter. Either will have his hands full. I know Zoubs is not a star but I really believe he can cause hanstravel some problems on inside. I have been wondering if a tightly called game benefits us or hurts us. unc bench has been shortened by injuries and our bench has been shortened for whatever reason(will not go there). Can't wait till Wednesday. Go Duke!

LOL, my bad. I may be channelling Roy, who's probably wishing he had a guy like McClure that he could stick on Kyle right about now...

davekay1971
02-09-2009, 11:14 AM
Deon is bigger, stronger than Singler. In the post that matters.
Last years game in Cameron:

Deon 7 pts., 5 blocks, 0 turnovers.
Singler 10 pts, 0 blocks, 3 turnovers.

I would argue that's a better stat line for Thompson, and proof that he can't be forgotten about.

It's tough to draw any conclusions at all about how Kyle and Thompson will fare based on last year's game. Both Kyle and Thompson are playing betterKyle's a completely different beast on the interior than he was last year and, despite his shooting the last couple of games, a better perimeter player as well. His rebounding numbers (over 8 rpg this year, while playing away from the low post) reflect his improved strength on the boards. Thompson is bigger and stronger, but I think Kyle can hold his own on the inside agaist Thompson, while Thompson is more likely to struggle on the perimeter trying to guard Kyle. I think Roy will probably have Thompson guard Kyle when he's in the game, and have Beaker guard Kyle when Davis is in the game. Both will be interesting matchups, at both ends of the court.

Duke3517
02-09-2009, 11:22 AM
Duke will score a lot of points on UNC only because UNC is not a great defensive team. They have not solved there defensive woes from last season. The key to this game is how effective Duke's pressure defense will be. For this game I would start Smith because he is the best option to shutdown Lawson. Duke needs to do 2 things to win...Rebound and create a lot of turnovers. If they are able to do that then Duke will win IMO.

dukeENG2003
02-09-2009, 11:23 AM
UNC's defense is better that people give them credit for. At Cameron last season with Lawson on the floor they held Duke to 33% shooting and had 15 blocked shots, winning by 8.


UNC's best defender in Cameron last year was Ted Valentine. You could get away with bloody murder in last years game and not get called for a foul.

TO CLARIFY: The officials were NOT biased towards one team, it was just a game where a LOT of contact was allowed. In a game pitting a truly physical team like UNC against our admittedly frail inside game (LAST YEAR, we have shown much greater toughness this year) its a recipe for disaster.

And to say they won by 8 is misunderstanding the game. That game was a 1 posession game until almost the very end. If Danny Green jumping onto Jon Scheyers shoulders behind the 3 pt line in the last minute was called its a different story (no, I'm not trying to blame the refs for the loss, but the game was close enough that one call going the other way could have changed things considerably).

Lawson has been LIT up on several occasions this year (Rice, Teague), I'm not sure I'd say he helps them on D. Frasor is a better defender IMO.

Reddevil
02-09-2009, 11:29 AM
Duke competes best with unc when they design a D that makes the interior pass difficult. This limits the damage that can be done inside, and it means that the guards can play off a little which limits the dribble drive. Now their guards have to shoot or pass to another guard. This usually results in several steals. It also means that Paulus can guard Lawson in this manner. As an aside, several earlier posts lamented that Paulus cannot guard Lawson straight up. Keep in mind that Paulus can be in the game, but not assigned to Lawson. The matchup stuff is fun, but this will be a real chessmatch. The key may be that some one is going to get hot from outside. For Duke it's always one of the usual suspects. For the ungulates it often comes from an unexpected source.

Wander
02-09-2009, 11:32 AM
Deon is bigger, stronger than Singler. In the post that matters.
Last years game in Cameron:

Deon 7 pts., 5 blocks, 9 rebounds, 0 turnovers. 24 minutes of play.
Singler 10 pts, 0 blocks, 8 rebounds, 3 turnovers. 37 minutes of play.

I would argue that's a better stat line for Thompson, and proof that he can't be forgotten about.

Of course in a one game situation anything can happen. Of course Deon Thompson can play even to a fatigued freshman Singler who is having a bad game when Deon has a national player of the year drawing attention to him and Kyle has Lance Thomas and Brian Zoubek. This doesn't change the fact that Singler is the better post player, perimeter player, basketball player, soccer player, long jumper, pole vaulter, pilot, chef, and human being. He's just completely superior. Yes, I know Deon blocks half a shot more than Singler does per game. Whoop-de-freaking-do.

Wheat/"/"/"
02-09-2009, 12:06 PM
Now we're rollin' :)
Wander, this is what I said.
"Deon Thompson has a sweet low post offensive game too, and even he could surprise in this one offensively. I assume Singler is on him most of the time, and I'd give Deon the advantage low in the block, especially if Duke puts too much energy defending TH.

Where do you see me say that Deon is a better all-around player? My point is that if Singler has to guard Deon low in the post, I think Deon has an advantage offensively. Feel free to disagree.
Singler has the advantage just about everywhere else, on that we can agree.
The stats from that one game were to just make a point that Deon is not a player that you can take for granted he will not cause you problems. And he didn't even shoot well that game.

TH had 16 pts. 15 rebounds last year and never went to the line. That was crazy for such a physical game. I agree, It was very poorly officiated.

Rudy
02-09-2009, 12:12 PM
People have already said shooting percentage is important, but the reason it is in this game is that UNC's size and speed advantage will be blunted a little with good shooting from Duke. It's very hard to run when you're pulling the ball out of the net. And if UNC is not able to fast break as much as it's accustomed to doing, it's shooting percentage will likely drop. Duke has improved its offensive rebounding by tipping it out to guards rather than grabbing the rebounds. McClure had done it often and Z started doing that several games ago.

College basketball is so fun because it is very hard to predict how 19-22 year olds will perform on a given night. Emotions play such an important part of it. Duke can withstand hot shooting from one of it opponent's players but if Green and Ellington get hot, look out. I can hardly wait.

Duke3517
02-09-2009, 12:18 PM
Let me first say that with the loss of Ginyard, UNC will have to draw up different defensive matchups. Thompson might have to help out and cover Henderson only because of his length. That would leave Singler to be covered by Green most likely. Henderson has a chance to just go off in this game. The loss of Ginyard could be a huge problem for UNC. I wouldn't be shocked if Henderson gets the assignment to cover Green instead of Ellington. Scheyer will probably cover Ellington which leaves Smith/Paulus to cover Lawson.

greybeard
02-09-2009, 12:20 PM
I see match up problems for Duke and unc. But the one thing that concerns me will unc play off McClure and dare him to shoot from outside. If they do this it will be hard for Gerald and Kyle to drive to the basket and that's a big part of Coach K's offense. However what Dave can do is rebound on the offensive end of the court. So he could hurt them there. I worry more about lawson beating us off the dribble more than hastravel beating us on the inside. We've been outrebounded before and still won. I can't think of a Duke-unc game where I've had so many questions going into the game. Before the Clemson game I didn't have these questions but now I do. I look for Duke to really be agressive at the beginning, but it will still come down to us hitting our outside shots. I'm still going with my original starting five of: Kyle, Brian, Jon, Greg and Gerald. Something tells me that Nolan could make a difference coming off the bench. Go Duke!

It is difficult for a team not to guard McClure because everybody guards the screen and roll with a show by the screener's defender to slow the dribbler while his defender catches up. If nobody is on David, Duke gets an easy look whenever it wants. UNC does not want that.

Lance really hurt UNC at the game down there last year and I think that he gets the start. Either he or Zoubek. If Zoubek starts, he plays a couple of minutes unless he does something real good. If not, Lance is in.

McClure in all likelihood will play the bulk of the minutes, unless lightening were to strike with regard to either of the other two. Neither is likely to get a lot of time within which that will happen, is my guess.

huied
02-09-2009, 01:04 PM
I think Nolan will start over Paulus just because of his defense. I'm not saying that he'll get the majority of the minutes, but if Smith can come out and force Lawson into some early mistakes, it could throw off Carolina and give us an edge.

Also, if Smith can fluster Lawson, Lawson will be really amped to play well with Paulus comes in and might rush or try to do too much.

So pumped for this game! :D

bird
02-09-2009, 01:08 PM
With one caveat, I think this will be team versus team. My caveat is that we need good individual performances from each of the big three.

Team versus team, it is strength versus strength, weakness versus weakness. Carolina's high-octane offense against Duke's often-supurb defense. On the other side of the ball, it will be Duke's offense, which can go through long periods of unproductive play, against Carolina's uncommunicative, inconsistent style of defense.

My No. 1 concern, which another poster shares, is Lawson's ability to penetrate, triggering help, and then dishing -- turning Duke's strength into a weakness.

Could we be in for a high-scoring game?

BlueintheFace
02-09-2009, 01:10 PM
I really don't know what to expect at this point about who starts at point and who gets a lot of minutes.

Experience/Leadership and Offense vs Superior Defense (especially vs Lawson)

I'd like to think that they both will see tons of minutes, but that probably leaves Dave/Zou out in the cold for significant minutes and leaves us with some serious height issues.

... coaching is hard.

jv001
02-09-2009, 02:39 PM
It is difficult for a team not to guard McClure because everybody guards the screen and roll with a show by the screener's defender to slow the dribbler while his defender catches up. If nobody is on David, Duke gets an easy look whenever it wants. UNC does not want that.

Lance really hurt UNC at the game down there last year and I think that he gets the start. Either he or Zoubek. If Zoubek starts, he plays a couple of minutes unless he does something real good. If not, Lance is in.

McClure in all likelihood will play the bulk of the minutes, unless lightening were to strike with regard to either of the other two. Neither is likely to get a lot of time within which that will happen, is my guess.

I agree that Dave will get the majority of the mins between himself, Zoubs and Lance. I would love to see Lance have a game like he did at the smith center last year. If he does I think the tide switches to Duke. You are correct regarding unc having to switch on picks, but if Dave is not involved on the play, I hope he is near the basket and not left alone on the 3 point line. With the clock winding down, this could be trouble for Duke. I look for a close game and the outcome being decided in the last 3 mins. Go Duke!

allenmurray
02-09-2009, 02:47 PM
Against Miami paulus played 40 of the 45 minutes. He scored 18 points. He had 5 rebounds. He had 2 assists and 3 steals, and only 1 turnover. Coach K said: Our leadership has been just OK throughout the whole season . . . and then all of a sudden thereís a moment and we need it. And itís at that moment that you hope somebody steps up and becomes it. Thatís the best leader, and thatís the best way to become the leader of a group Ė under fire. Itís the best way. Nobody designates you Ė you have to earn being the leader, and Greg Paulus did that today.

I will be shocked if he does not start.

Kfanarmy
02-09-2009, 04:13 PM
I'm hoping the players come out warm, sweated up a bit.

I've wondered whether or not they are getting warmed up enough before the opening tip. To me there are a few players on this team that need quite a few minutes before they get going...almost like a boxer that comes out cold, they spend a tremendous amount of energy in the second half playing catch up for underperforming in the 1st 15 minutes...did something change in the pregame routine this year?

blazindw
02-09-2009, 05:09 PM
Paulus to start against UNC:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/basketball/ncaa/02/09/paulus.ap/index.html

DukieBoy
02-09-2009, 05:33 PM
Didn't see this anywhere else, so I thought I would put it here. Coach K said that he is starting Paulus Wednesday against the holes (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/basketball/ncaa/02/09/paulus.ap/index.html).

It's the right move IMO. Nolan has obviously been struggling, and Paulus had easily his best game of the year on Saturday. Plus, giving Paulus the start in his last home game against unc is the right thing to do. Let's hope that this doesn't begin to mess with Nolan's psyche, however

darkblue2769
02-09-2009, 05:49 PM
I think this is great- in my opinion we really need Paulus out there on the floor against unc if we want to win. Yes, I know, everyone complains about his defense, but his offense and the fire he brings are simply not matched by Nolan (at least not yet; hopefully Nolan starts to pick up on some of these things), added to the fact that Nolan hasn't been playing all that well lately, and makes him the obvious choice in my mind (however, I've been in favor of Paulus starting all along).

CameronBornAndBred
02-09-2009, 05:52 PM
Given last game this is no surprise. I wouldn't have been surprised even if Nolan had been the starter for Miami though. This is GP3's last Carolina game in Cameron. It's not senior day, but still a huge day in the seniors' careers.

Virginian
02-09-2009, 06:17 PM
I think Nolan will start over Paulus just because of his defense. I'm not saying that he'll get the majority of the minutes, but if Smith can come out and force Lawson into some early mistakes, it could throw off Carolina and give us an edge.

Also, if Smith can fluster Lawson, Lawson will be really amped to play well with Paulus comes in and might rush or try to do too much.

So pumped for this game! :D

This is a very reasonable point of view. But IMO Paulus starts without question. He may not start for Nolan, but he will start. He's earned it and the team needs him; at least I think that K thinks so.

I personally would like to see Greg start for Jon. I love 'em both, but I think that's where we are, and I think Greg, Nolan and Jon will all see significant minutes no matter what.

And hey, we'll know soon enough. Bring it on!

DukeHoopsGuru
02-09-2009, 06:35 PM
There's a reason he went to the bench. Kid can't guard a soul. Love the grit, love the hustle, but keep in mind a Duke point guard had to be taken off Belmont's point guard last year b/c he couldn't guard a kid named Renfro. Mistake. It's not like Greg was setting the world on fire before 1 good game against Miami.

BlueintheFace
02-09-2009, 07:01 PM
There's a reason he went to the bench. Kid can't guard a soul. Love the grit, love the hustle, but keep in mind a Duke point guard had to be taken off Belmont's point guard last year b/c he couldn't guard a kid named Renfro. Mistake. It's not like Greg was setting the world on fire before 1 good game against Miami.

your characterization of the Belmont game is actually inaccurate. FYI.

Also, how did he do guarding Hurdle?

mgtr
02-09-2009, 07:14 PM
I am a big Paulus fan, and am happy to see him return to his old form. Look, Nolan got a shot, a big shot, and he has stubbed his toe recently. We know that Paulus has weaknesses, but on balance, he is the best choice. This may give Nolan a shot in the arm to show his stuff. We will need him in the tournaments and for sure next year. As Coach K said, we need a leader, and Greg has shown he is that guy.

MChambers
02-09-2009, 07:30 PM
For Duke to have a shot at the FF, we need Nolan playing like he was in December. We need outstanding ball pressure. If he's playing offense as well as he's capable, that would be great, whether or not he is a traditional point.

Paulus is a great shooter, but I greatly prefer him as instant outside shooting off the bench.

Give me defense and speed first any day.

Wheat/"/"/"
02-09-2009, 07:37 PM
Coach K is a great motivator and starting Paulus makes a lot of sense. Emotion will play big if Duke wins, Paulus brings that. He's has proven to be a leader and a team first guy. He also brings the potential for the strong outside shooting that Duke will need in this one.
Coach K is no dummy.

roywhite
02-09-2009, 07:42 PM
As fans, we sometimes want to tinker with the lineup and substitution patterns. But it generally happens with Coach K that the guys who most deserve to play get the minutes.

Look at Greg Paulus and Dave McClure---they've earned extra time. Unfortunately, Nolan Smith has not performed well recently and his minutes have diminished. Similarly, Elliot Williams, who is a good prospect, just hasn't performed well enough to earn more playing time. But Smith, Williams, Plumlee, Zoubs, etc. will get more opportunities.

I look for Coach K to use his bench liberally in the first half, and then settle on perhaps 6 or possibly 7 in the second half Wednesday.

geraldsneighbor
02-09-2009, 07:55 PM
For Duke to have a shot at the FF, we need Nolan playing like he was in December. We need outstanding ball pressure. If he's playing offense as well as he's capable, that would be great, whether or not he is a traditional point.

Paulus is a great shooter, but I greatly prefer him as instant outside shooting off the bench.

Give me defense and speed first any day.


I don't think Greg can provide that instant shooting from the bench. I mean it isn't easy coming in cold and being asked to hit 3's, which really is a much different role than Jon was asked last year. Greg plays best when he knows he doesn't need to go 2/3 from beyond in 4 minutes and risk being taken out. Hes a guy that adds alot on offense when hes the man in charge and is going to play 25 minutes. If a way to get the ball pressure is use Nolan more at the 2, then its what we will have to do in spots. Everyone should know by now what GP is going to give you when he is in the game.

geraldsneighbor
02-09-2009, 07:57 PM
As fans, we sometimes want to tinker with the lineup and substitution patterns. But it generally happens with Coach K that the guys who most deserve to play get the minutes.

Look at Greg Paulus and Dave McClure---they've earned extra time. Unfortunately, Nolan Smith has not performed well recently and his minutes have diminished. Similarly, Elliot Williams, who is a good prospect, just hasn't performed well enough to earn more playing time. But Smith, Williams, Plumlee, Zoubs, etc. will get more opportunities.

I look for Coach K to use his bench liberally in the first half, and then settle on perhaps 6 or possibly 7 in the second half Wednesday.

I think on the inside you have to use LT, Miles, and Zoub because you need their fouls early on. I think Zoub might start for the reason that he did in 2007. His reach can distract Hansbrough. All of them need to perform, I just hope that Dave can handle late in the game Thompson, Davis and Hansbrough on the glass.

ice-9
02-09-2009, 09:20 PM
Confirmed: GP starting. http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=516053

Wheat/"/"/"
02-09-2009, 10:17 PM
Here's a youtube moment from HansIownU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMcHb0M9w30&feature=related)that is a classic. If he had only moonwalked across the stage.....
I just found this again, and thought some of you might not have seen it. Remember, they're college kids and rivlary week is supposed to be fun.:eek:

Constantstrain 81
02-09-2009, 10:46 PM
I live and die Duke. In this game, anything could happen. That said, advantage still has to go to the Heels. Our recent offensive struggles have added to that feeling. Defensively, although we have an advantage, we are working against several variables:

UNC does have a very good low post game (Hans and Thompson). Add in Davis and they can score down low. We counter by ...

Denying the ball to the post. This works well unless the other team has a fast point guard with a quick first step who can get to the middle and not turn the ball over. Enter Lawson. If we focus on shutting off the inside and the drive, then they do have two good shooters (Green and Ellington - when he is on).

So what does it really come down to?

Who is in foul trouble?
Which team can hit their jumpers and 3 pointers (especially Duke)?
What will the turnover situation be like?
What about easy turnover points?

So ... while it could go either way, I do have to say that UNC has more options to make it go their way. We have to impose our will on them.

Uncle Drew
02-10-2009, 01:05 AM
I've read all the posts so far. Some I agree with, some I don't. But really this has to be one of the hardest Duke vs. UNC games to predict due to the way both teams have played in the last month. UNC seems to have turned the corner from their 0-2 ACC start but on the road they aren't killing teams and certain ACC players have put up decent numbers against them. Then we have Duke who looked like world beaters against UMD but at times have looked like they were playing in wet concrete since on offense and defense.

I think most frustrating for Duke is not knowing who can truly be relied on. Greg had a great game against Miami in a lot of respects and Nolan looked tentative at best. Scheyer seemed to come out of his slump against Miami but wow was he in a rut. Singler missed some open looks close to and away from the basket against Miami that left us all scratching our head. Gerald is a beast but other guys need to step up their game for him to be as effective as possible. Truthfully the ONLY thing I am sure of is McClure will play some bloody good defense whomever he guards. The only problem with that is we'd like to get some offense out of him too.

IMO against the canes, Duke took too many quick shots, threes especially. I mean coming down the court early in the shot clock with the dribble and nobody near the basket to rebound is a bad shot unless your initials are JJ. Duke has good shooters on this team but I'm sorry ________ you sir are no JJ. Duke has been working their collective butts off on defense all season. Coming down and taking a quick shot (even if they make the shot) allows the other team to not have to play as hard on defense as long. That adds up not only at the end of games but at the end of seasons.

Second whether we have an inside dominant force or not Duke MUST work the freakin' ball inside some. When Duke caught fire defensively in the second half against the canes they actually started doing this. Say what you want about Zoubek but he is good at distributing the ball back out. To be blunt passing the ball around the three point line has become predictable. When the opposing defense pretty much knows what a team is going to do offensively it's a lot harder to score.

Finally I firmly expect to see UNC play some zone if not for all of the game then quite a bit. We've all been watching / playing basketball our entire lives for the most part. In the first half against Miami I kept waiting for some player, any player to get down around the freethrow line to recieve the ball. I think Thomas did it once turned and missed a shot. In the second half once they started doing it and allowing the defense to collapse and then dishing off the offense ran smoother. If players don't know how to beat a zone by now, or at least know how it SHOULD work I'm scared for them. Oh and don't be surprised if UNC tries to trap at least some of the time. If Clemson was able to do it Duke better be at least prepared for it if and when UNC tries the same thing.

Not making any predictions. Last time I predicted they lost. But as always Go To Hell Carolina Go To Hell!

Wheat/"/"/"
02-10-2009, 08:20 AM
I can't see a zone coming from the Heels. Actually I think they will try to put more pressure on the ball by pressing a little more than they have been. Zones let the offensive team rest, slow the game and I don't think the Heels want that. They want lots of possessions.

As head scratching as this UNC team can be mentally sometimes, I think they will bring their focus and confidence at Cameron. This group seems to like it there, not intimidated like some have been. I think they smell blood. I'd bet the locker room chatter is all about who can get the poster dunk on Paulus this time. That's how players are.

RepoMan
02-10-2009, 08:35 AM
Coach K is a great motivator and starting Paulus makes a lot of sense. Emotion will play big if Duke wins, Paulus brings that. He's has proven to be a leader and a team first guy. He also brings the potential for the strong outside shooting that Duke will need in this one.
Coach K is no dummy.

Nolan's defense will be very important, but K almost had to make the decision to start Greg. I mean, Greg earned it. Plain and simple. Fail to recognize that, and you risk chemistry issues. That said, you won't see Nolan just getting a handful of minutes, like in the Miami game. While not starting, he will play often.

Wheat/"/"/"
02-10-2009, 09:11 AM
Right, Nolan will get plenty of quality time and his defense will be needed. I know he can shoot it too.
A good question for UNC will be how will Larry Drew handle the pressure of Cameron? He's going to get some run too, especially in the first half and will be interesting to watch.

geraldsneighbor
02-10-2009, 11:44 AM
The Starters
G Paulus
G Scheyer
G/F Henderson
F Singler
C Zoubek

North Carolina
G Lawson
G Ellington
G/F Green
F Thompson
F Hansbrough

The edge: I think UNC has the edge at the PG and 5 spots. I like Duke at the 3 and the 4 positions. I think while Ellington has been hot and Scheyer has been cold, that spot is a draw because either one can light it up on a given night. Scheyer also offers defensive abilities Ellington lacks in.

The Bench: Top 3 Reserves
Duke
G Smith
F McClure
F Thomas

UNC
F Davis
G Drew
G Frasor

The Edge: Smith offers Duke another strong defender capable of forcing turnovers and applying the ball pressure Paulus can't add. Davis has played well for UNC this year. The key for Duke's bench is getting production from McClure rebounding and second chance points from Thomas.

Defense: Duke has to have the edge based on numbers but UNC may look to crank the pressure up like Clemson did. I think it is completely up to UNC how well they want to defend, but Duke needs show better poise then it did a week ago.

Intangibles: Duke for several reasons. Senior leadership with Paulus back to form and McClure playing extremely well on the glass. Also, Duke is at home which has to be an advantage as well even though UNC has faired rather well the past 3 trips to Indoor. Duke also has the edge IMO with head coach. I think K will be able to balance his bench well in the first half before settling in on a 7 man second half rotation. I think Roy will be stuck trying playing 7 men most of the contest. Duke needs to understand Hansbrough will get his 20 pts and 15 boards but not to let the Danny Green's and Wayne Ellington's of the world also go for big nights. To beat UNC of late it takes high offensive production (BC 85, Wake 92, Duke 89 last year) to knock off the Holes. If Duke can find that rhythm early and get stops late, you have to like the chances of ending the Holes 3 game win streak at Indoor.

Madrasdukie
02-10-2009, 11:59 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/danpatrick/blog/48921/index.html?eref=fromSI

Billy Dat
02-10-2009, 04:02 PM
Not to hijack the thread, but K's comments on A-Rod are quite puzzling. I guess we should admire his loyalty to a friend. I am a big Yankee fan and I think ARod's "performance" with Peter Gammons on ESPN was pretty weak.

Lulu
02-10-2009, 07:07 PM
This doesn't fit here, but I didn't want to start a new thread.

I'm trying not to view the Duke calendar through blue-tinted glasses, but

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/index

Direct Link to image: http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2009/0210/pg2_calendar_350.jpg

Lord Ash
02-10-2009, 08:50 PM
Ahhhhh... the days before a Carolina game, after the last game, filled with articles and anxiety and just WAITING. I feel like the last two days have just been delaying until nine o'clock on Wednesday.

I hate this ridiculous anxiety in the best possible way.

:)

WojoSay?
02-10-2009, 08:55 PM
I can't imagine how the players and coaches feel right about now.

dukelifer
02-10-2009, 09:00 PM
I live and die Duke. In this game, anything could happen. That said, advantage still has to go to the Heels. Our recent offensive struggles have added to that feeling. Defensively, although we have an advantage, we are working against several variables:

UNC does have a very good low post game (Hans and Thompson). Add in Davis and they can score down low. We counter by ...

Denying the ball to the post. This works well unless the other team has a fast point guard with a quick first step who can get to the middle and not turn the ball over. Enter Lawson. If we focus on shutting off the inside and the drive, then they do have two good shooters (Green and Ellington - when he is on).

So what does it really come down to?

Who is in foul trouble?
Which team can hit their jumpers and 3 pointers (especially Duke)?
What will the turnover situation be like?
What about easy turnover points?

So ... while it could go either way, I do have to say that UNC has more options to make it go their way. We have to impose our will on them.

If Duke shoots well and UNC plays their usual D- it will be interesting. But if D shoots poorly (less than 40%), UNC will be hard to beat. They are very efficient on O and Duke will not turn them over enough to get the extra possessions to score points. Duke needs to play and A game. But anything can happen- a few quick fouls on Hansbrough ( well I can dream) or Lawson, the game will change. It should be a battle and a lot will depend on the play in the last few minutes. Last year at home, Duke faltered down the stretch. This game will likely come down to the end with a few runs by both teams in the middle.

Lord Ash
02-10-2009, 09:03 PM
I can't imagine how the players and coaches feel right about now.

You know... as a former athlete myself, I didn't feel as anxious because I was actively involved; I was thinking about it, I was visualizing it, I was practicing and all that... I think the more you have to actively do with it, the more you can work of that anxiety. You have been involved with your sport for years, and faced this a lot, and I think you might dwell on it a little less because you are involved and distracted both.

Then again, a few hours before the game, that is when the serious jitters can start to appear:)

Madrasdukie
02-10-2009, 09:25 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0902/duke.historical.photos/content.1.html?eref=sircrc

They earlier had a similar montage of UNC players, I guess in view of tommorrow's game.

Classof06
02-10-2009, 10:09 PM
Just win, damn it..

CameronCrazy'11
02-10-2009, 10:14 PM
Coach K says we'll win big. He also called out Duke fan entitlement. It was pretty funny.

jipops
02-10-2009, 10:30 PM
I can't see a zone coming from the Heels. Actually I think they will try to put more pressure on the ball by pressing a little more than they have been. Zones let the offensive team rest, slow the game and I don't think the Heels want that. They want lots of possessions.

As head scratching as this UNC team can be mentally sometimes, I think they will bring their focus and confidence at Cameron. This group seems to like it there, not intimidated like some have been. I think they smell blood. I'd bet the locker room chatter is all about who can get the poster dunk on Paulus this time. That's how players are.

This seems to be the one game (ok two) that Roy doesn't have to worry about getting his guys focused for. As much locker room turmoil that sometimes makes itself apparent on the floor, these guys still hate Duke more than they resent each other. I'm sure there will be locker room chatter on who will be dunking on Paulus. But it appears there has been chatter about getting touches all season.

This has to be a disruption of UNC's philosophy for Duke to have a chance against a far more talented squad. The pace has to be slow and possessions at a minimum. Though Duke's offense has been non-existent at times, it does bode well that UNC's defense has been the same much of the season as well. If the heels don't attempt to come out with some tenacity on defense, then Duke has a chance.

geraldsneighbor
02-10-2009, 10:45 PM
We were all witnesses last year that the 3-pt shot is the great equalizer. If Duke (mainly Paulus and Scheyer) can get hot from 3, I think Duke has a tremendous shot to win.

BlueintheFace
02-10-2009, 11:19 PM
.... OH MY GOD, Gameday is TODAY!!!

CameronCrazy'11
02-11-2009, 12:11 AM
I think Duke can win if they play with the fire that seems to have been missing for awhile. I wanna see Singler working into the paint, not just lazily hanging out on the perimeter. I wanna see Nolan driving inside. I wanna see G daring people to try to guard him. I wanna see Greg making people pay for the mistake of giving him an inch to shoot. I wanna see Lance acting like "Tyler who, I'm Lance moth********* Thomas." If we can play with some swagger on offense, our defense is more than good enough that we can win this one handily.

Rogue
02-11-2009, 02:03 AM
Lace'em up a little tighter tonight, there's a battle to be fought in Cameron,, it's game day

"Mount up men,, ride to the sound of the cannon fire,, there's a battle to be fought"



GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO DUKE:cool:

bjornolf
02-11-2009, 06:55 AM
They had Jason Williams on this morning on ESPN talking about the keys to the game. He took a piece of paper and tore it and said that stats meant nothing in this game and that it was going to be about toughness and heart and who wants it more. I agree. If we come out like we did the last couple games, it'll be over by halftime. If we come out like we did in the 2nd half against Miami and can maintain that intensity, I think we'll win. The crazies will be a HUGE part of whether we win or lose tonight. It's on you guys. I'd love to hear an "OUR HOUSE" chant tonight. I'm sick of hearing the commentators lately. Come on, make it so loud I can't hear 'em!

ESPN was poking the beehive a little this morning, saying that Tyler will join Tim Duncan in being one of the few people able to say they went undefeated at CIS if the heels win tonight. If THAT'S not motivation to send him home crying tonight, I don't know what is. WE can't be the reason he gets to compare himself to Tim Duncan. This is OUR HOUSE, let's show those whiny little baby blues why tonight!

jv001
02-11-2009, 07:25 AM
I like it that unc is feeling so good about themselves. They won 7 or 8 in a row, they've beaten us 3 straight years in CIS and we have not been at our best in the last two games. Judging from ty lawson's comments that we don't move our feet very well he expects an easy game. He doesn't know Duke University very well. Even though we have lost 3 in a row, all were pretty close. I look for us to come out and play very aggressive on both ends of the court. I know Greg and Dave want to end this streak and will play their hearts out. WE WIN! Go Duke!!!!!!!

weezie
02-11-2009, 07:33 AM
Everybody got their lucky stuff on?!
All day baby!!!

CameronBornAndBred
02-11-2009, 07:34 AM
One of the of the points that they make in the front page article for Duke's benefit is that Duke has the deeper bench, and Carolina is relying on their starting five.
"But in their last competitive game, against Florida State, they went with their starting five almost the entire way, Ed Davis got 22 minutes, but the rest of the bench only came up with 14 minutes and nine points, eight of them by Davis."
I wish it weren't true, but I'd say the exact same thing could be said about our last outing. Vs. Miami, in the second half we relied heavily on our starting 5, and some of the bench players never saw the floor again after the first half. I think 5 of our players had at least 40 minutes, if not extremely close. Aside from McClure (mostly), Smith and Thomas, K wasn't about to let anybody else get on the court. I'm not saying it's bad (the others weren't producing so don't keep them out there) but right now you can't call that an advantage for Duke if we are doing the same thing. Hopefully tonight our bench will step up, I think to win they will have to. We have lots of bodies that can produce, we've seen it in the past. But if they come out like they did for Clemson and Miami, then stay on the bench.

whereinthehellami
02-11-2009, 07:38 AM
Big game. If Duke wins their confidence will be back and they could go on a nice run. If they lose, it could mean a couple of things depending on how they lose. If its a comfortable win for UNC, this duke team is in trouble. If its a fight and Duke loses a close one then I think it shows that Duke is realing but is tough and has alot of heart.

I'm going to go with an 11 point loss for Duke, 69-80. I think UNC is in control for most of the game and then relies on their inside game and FT shooting to seal it in the end. I think Duke will lose their legs at the end and the outside shots will come up short. The key to the game will be the UNC frontcourt (Hans, Thompson, Davis) and the easy shots, putbacks that they get.

bigj4194
02-11-2009, 07:49 AM
As it is the day of the game and I am so excited (and contemplating skipping my classes) I feel it necessary to make this post.

GO TO HELL CAROLINA, GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL CAROLINA, GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL CAROLINA, GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL CAROLINA, GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL CAROLINA, GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL CAROLINA, GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL CAROLINA, GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL CAROLINA, GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL CAROLINA, GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL CAROLINA, GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL CAROLINA, GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL CAROLINA, GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL CAROLINA, GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL CAROLINA, GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL CAROLINA, GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL CAROLINA, GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL CAROLINA, GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL CAROLINA, GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL CAROLINA, GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL CAROLINA, GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL CAROLINA, GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL CAROLINA, GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL CAROLINA, GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL CAROLINA, GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL CAROLINA, GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL CAROLINA, GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL CAROLINA, GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL CAROLINA, GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL CAROLINA, GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL CAROLINA, GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL CAROLINA, GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL CAROLINA, GO TO HELL!
GO TO HELL CAROLINA, GO TO HELL!

geraldsneighbor
02-11-2009, 08:22 AM
I am wearing my Singler jersey now. Can't wait, inside 12 hours til we jump it up. Paulus and Scheyer are the keys for Duke. Need them to hit 3's early to set the tone.

jipops
02-11-2009, 08:50 AM
I'm going to go with an 11 point loss for Duke, 69-80. I think UNC is in control for most of the game and then relies on their inside game and FT shooting to seal it in the end. I think Duke will lose their legs at the end and the outside shots will come up short. The key to the game will be the UNC frontcourt (Hans, Thompson, Davis) and the easy shots, putbacks that they get.

Unfortunately, I'm agreeing with this prediction. There is no question that heart has a lot to do with this game but talent is an enormous part and UNC simply has too much of it. Plus, Duke has simply not been playing well at all lately. I'm not naive to think everything is ok after the Miami win. We still didn't play well at all offensively in the 2nd half. McClure's offensive rebounds were the reason we were able to score more points. Singler hasn't been strong at all lately either and if that's the case again tonight, we could be looking at another blowout loss. UNC's defense is obviously poor but Duke's offense simply has not been strong enough to indicate they'll take advantage of that. Paulus deserves the start based on the level of play he has exhibited lately but it also adversely affects our defense which we so desperately need tonight.

Hate to sound so bleak, but I'm just having a hard time seeing the good guys come out on top tonight. If we had been hitting our shots at some decent rate so far this season I'd probably feel differently, but it's difficult to see how we can pull this out. The matchup is not favorable.

davekay1971
02-11-2009, 08:58 AM
Rip 'em up, Tear 'em up, Give 'em Hell, Duke!

Blue Devils win tonight, Carolina go to Hell (Eat Sh...ut yo' mouth)...

:D

GO DUKE

Bomar
02-11-2009, 09:03 AM
Long time listener, first time caller! LOL

I am so wound up about the game tonight!! I am in class right now, but instead of doing my work I'm here reading this #%@^ board! (Thank god for independent study courses)

GHTC, GTH!!!!!

LET'S GO DUKE!!!

Wheat/"/"/"
02-11-2009, 09:27 AM
This seems to be the one game (ok two) that Roy doesn't have to worry about getting his guys focused for. As much locker room turmoil that sometimes makes itself apparent on the floor, these guys still hate Duke more than they resent each other. I'm sure there will be locker room chatter on who will be dunking on Paulus. But it appears there has been chatter about getting touches all season.

This has to be a disruption of UNC's philosophy for Duke to have a chance against a far more talented squad. The pace has to be slow and possessions at a minimum. Though Duke's offense has been non-existent at times, it does bode well that UNC's defense has been the same much of the season as well. If the heels don't attempt to come out with some tenacity on defense, then Duke has a chance.

I haven't seen any real resentment on the floor between Carolina players. I think what we see is more frustration at times that has bubbled over, and it is usually directed at Deon Thompson and his lack of aggression. He is just a quiet player. The kid has improved greatly each year and just tries to play steady and composed all the time, not make a mistake, but sometimes you just want to scream at him... crash that board!-attack that rim!-wake the hell up!

UNC is better defensively, when they focus, than everyone wants to admit. Holding Duke scoreless last year in the last 5 1/2 minutes is example one. And I know Ginyard played, but he's not superman- that was a team effort. They are long and can rebound. They do struggle with dribble penetration, which is why I think we will see a big game from Davis. Against a team like Duke, I think we are going to need him in the post as an enforcer around the rim and to rebound strong. I would think he will get at least 22-23 minutes tonight. and block several shots- as will Danny Green on rotations on the Duke drives to the rim.

Duke has got to shoot lights out to win this game, imo, 48% or better- 38%+ from 3. And they can.

G is going to lead, Singler I see as steady, but there has got to be a player for Duke that plays well above themselves, and my sense is that its likely to Scheyer, he has "intangibles" and is the guy I will be watching closely on the floor to get a feel for how the game is going to play out.

For UNC, geeze, a big game could come from anywhere. HansIownU could just go off and be unstopable. If he has a big game and starts to feel it, you guys don't have enough hackahans fouls to give in the post. And don't let Ellington make his first 3, if the basket gets big for him....and Lawson? He could shread and dish and make a few 3's himnself...and Danny Green? He could cause Duke trouble from both ends of the floor. Even Deon could have a big game if that little turnaround J is falling.

I just think UNC is too strong this year for Duke. It should be a double digit win, and if we wake up tomorrow and see a headline "Blowout!", which team is likely to be on the winning side?

Note: I realize that me stepping in here using my favorite new Hanbrough nickname and using words like Blowout! might raise a few hackles. Good!
It's a rivalry game for heaven's sake. And the board is best when the jucies are flowing.
But please don't think I have anything less than great respect for everything Duke. I just want to see my team win a big game and have a little fun riding along.

Here's to a great game. Cheers!

Wheat/"/"/"
02-11-2009, 09:36 AM
One of the of the points that they make in the front page article for Duke's benefit is that Duke has the deeper bench, and Carolina is relying on their starting five.
"But in their last competitive game, against Florida State, they went with their starting five almost the entire way, Ed Davis got 22 minutes, but the rest of the bench only came up with 14 minutes and nine points, eight of them by Davis."
I wish it weren't true, but I'd say the exact same thing could be said about our last outing. Vs. Miami, in the second half we relied heavily on our starting 5, and some of the bench players never saw the floor again after the first half. I think 5 of our players had at least 40 minutes, if not extremely close. Aside from McClure (mostly), Smith and Thomas, K wasn't about to let anybody else get on the court. I'm not saying it's bad (the others weren't producing so don't keep them out there) but right now you can't call that an advantage for Duke if we are doing the same thing. Hopefully tonight our bench will step up, I think to win they will have to. We have lots of bodies that can produce, we've seen it in the past. But if they come out like they did for Clemson and Miami, then stay on the bench.

I'd say this game will basically be 71/2 on 7...
UNC:
TH
Thompson
Green
Ellington
Lawson
Davis
Frasor
Drew (1/2)

Duke:
Paulus
Scheyer
Henderson
Singler
Zoubek
Thomas
Smith

roywhite
02-11-2009, 09:39 AM
I'd say this game will basically be 71/2 on 7...
UNC:
TH
Thompson
Green
Ellington
Lawson
Davis
Frasor
Drew (1/2)

Duke:
Paulus
Scheyer
Henderson
Singler
Zoubek
Thomas
Smith

Wheat, you're leaving out David McClure; he's been a very important player for Duke recently.

Wander
02-11-2009, 09:48 AM
Tonight is Kyle Singler's triple-double game that I know he'll have at some point in his Duke career.

Deon Thompson will cry himself to sleep for the next few weeks knowing that no matter how hard he tries, the guy he guarded is a better athlete, basketball player and human being in every imaginable way.

Kyle Singler's performance will be so great that it causes Lawson to leave UNC and declare for the draft... tomorrow.

Wheat/"/"/"
02-11-2009, 09:57 AM
Wheat, you're leaving out David McClure; he's been a very important player for Duke recently.

You're right- I did space out. Wrote that reply too quick without thinking it through...a dangerous thing around here. McClure could be a game changing player too.
Make that 8 against 7 1/2.
I hate starting out a game from behind.
:)

KShip21
02-11-2009, 09:58 AM
lets hope that carolina D who gave up 91 to MD shows up tonight

davekay1971
02-11-2009, 10:27 AM
I haven't seen any real resentment on the floor between Carolina players. I think what we see is more frustration at times that has bubbled over, and it is usually directed at Deon Thompson and his lack of aggression. He is just a quiet player. The kid has improved greatly each year and just tries to play steady and composed all the time, not make a mistake, but sometimes you just want to scream at him... crash that board!-attack that rim!-wake the hell up!

UNC is better defensively, when they focus, than everyone wants to admit. Holding Duke scoreless last year in the last 5 1/2 minutes is example one. And I know Ginyard played, but he's not superman- that was a team effort. They are long and can rebound. They do struggle with dribble penetration, which is why I think we will see a big game from Davis. Against a team like Duke, I think we are going to need him in the post as an enforcer around the rim and to rebound strong. I would think he will get at least 22-23 minutes tonight. and block several shots- as will Danny Green on rotations on the Duke drives to the rim.

Duke has got to shoot lights out to win this game, imo, 48% or better- 38%+ from 3. And they can.

G is going to lead, Singler I see as steady, but there has got to be a player for Duke that plays well above themselves, and my sense is that its likely to Scheyer, he has "intangibles" and is the guy I will be watching closely on the floor to get a feel for how the game is going to play out.

For UNC, geeze, a big game could come from anywhere. HansIownU could just go off and be unstopable. If he has a big game and starts to feel it, you guys don't have enough hackahans fouls to give in the post. And don't let Ellington make his first 3, if the basket gets big for him....and Lawson? He could shread and dish and make a few 3's himnself...and Danny Green? He could cause Duke trouble from both ends of the floor. Even Deon could have a big game if that little turnaround J is falling.

I just think UNC is too strong this year for Duke. It should be a double digit win, and if we wake up tomorrow and see a headline "Blowout!", which team is likely to be on the winning side?

Note: I realize that me stepping in here using my favorite new Hanbrough nickname and using words like Blowout! might raise a few hackles. Good!
It's a rivalry game for heaven's sake. And the board is best when the jucies are flowing.
But please don't think I have anything less than great respect for everything Duke. I just want to see my team win a big game and have a little fun riding along.

Here's to a great game. Cheers!


Darn you, Wheat!! I'm trying to develop a universal loathing for Tarheel fans but you keep being so f***ing reasonable. Grrr! :mad:

ClosetHurleyFan
02-11-2009, 10:29 AM
Tonight is Kyle Singler's triple-double game that I know he'll have at some point in his Duke career.

Deon Thompson will cry himself to sleep for the next few weeks knowing that no matter how hard he tries, the guy he guarded is a better athlete, basketball player and human being in every imaginable way.

Kyle Singler's performance will be so great that it causes Lawson to leave UNC and declare for the draft... tomorrow.


what the world precipitated the "better human being in every imaginable way" comment?

davekay1971
02-11-2009, 10:32 AM
what the world precipitated the "better human being in every imaginable way" comment?

Humor

DevilCastDownfromDurham
02-11-2009, 10:33 AM
I'd say this game will basically be 71/2 on 7...
UNC:
TH
Thompson
Green
Ellington
Lawson
Davis
Frasor
Drew (1/2)

Duke:
Paulus
Scheyer
Henderson
Singler
Zoubek
Thomas
Smith

Adding David (and maybe Email or Plum in case of foul trouble) I think your numbers are going to be basically correct. K does shorten his bench in big games more often than not.

That said, I think there's a really good argument for Duke going the other way and playing 10 guys in an overly-aggressive style. Really in-your-face D and creating contact offensively would lead to lots of fouls and cut down on fast-break opportunities. I'd be perfectly willing, for example, to trade 8-10 fouls on Plumlee, Z, and Lance for 5 on Hans. I'd also rather see a close charge-block call at halfcourt (even if they go against us 70% of the time tonight) than a runout dunk, especially if Elliot and Green are exchanging fouls.

UNC goes 8 deep and then it's walkons. Duke goes 10-11 deep with guys that do something well (Plumlee and Marty are 10 and 11) so the more that we use our bench the more foul trouble and fatigue are a factor.

To be clear, I don't think K will do anything like this. Most likely he will push 3-4 players for 39+ minutes and trust G and Kyle to get the better of their advantages relative to what we give up in the post and at the PG spot. I do think my idea is interesting and I am comforted by having quality (if very young) emergency backups on the wing and in the post.

davekay1971
02-11-2009, 10:40 AM
I look at the benches as being a relative advantage for Duke at this point in the season. UNC probably started the season with the clear advantage in bench play, but injuries and the Graves suspension have changed that, as well as Frasor's struggles this year.

Given Beaker's proclivity for drawing fouls/getting a big assist from the zebras, K might very well need to rotate Zoubs, Thomas, and Plumlee liberally in the game. I think his preference would be to see if Zoubs height advantage can disturb Hansbrough, and to make Hansbrough have to deal with the alternating challenges of a taller defender in Zoubs and a smaller, quicker defender in Thomas. However, given the likelihood of Zoubs, in particular, getting in foul trouble, we could see Plumlee on the court a fair bit.

The guys who we may not see as much coming off the bench are Pocius and E-Will. They are usefull to spell the starters, but if Scheyer and Hendo are playing well (and I really hope they are), they're likely to be playing 36-40 minute each.

Wander
02-11-2009, 10:40 AM
what the world precipitated the "better human being in every imaginable way" comment?

It's a well-known fact.

Really, I feel kind of bad for Deon. It must be incredibly awkward having to guard someone who is vastly superior to you in... everything.

Wheat/"/"/"
02-11-2009, 10:44 AM
lets hope that carolina D who gave up 91 to MD shows up tonight

I'd be OK with that myself.. UNC held Maryland to 30% shooting from 3 and won by 17...106-91.

Of course, UNC did shoot a sick 64% from 3 in that one..(16-25). Oh would I love to see them get hot like that tonight :)

Madrasdukie
02-11-2009, 10:50 AM
I'm not sure if this has been discussed earlier but the Barry Jacobs article linked to in the front page has a quote from Nolan that he's been "battling injuries"...back spasms.

Hopefully, he's recovering well or better yet is fully recovered.

Kedsy
02-11-2009, 10:53 AM
I haven't read this entire thread, but from perusing the articles linked on the main page it looks like Paulus is starting. One of the articles suggested that it will be Scheyer who primarily guards Lawson. I don't know if that's true, but if it is, the logical question is can Paulus check Ellington?

At first blush it seems questionable, because Ellington is a lot bigger than Paulus, but the more I think about it, the more I like it. Paulus should be able to at least bother/challenge Ellington's outside shot, and Ellington doesn't usually drive or post up all that much. And even if he decided to drive or post up, that would be playing right into Duke's hands because those aren't his strengths and he would be minimizing one of his team's big weapons (Ellington's 3-point shot).

I like Scheyer on Lawson. I think he can keep up with Lawson and Lawson will have trouble shooting over him. When Paulus or Scheyer is out, I really like Nolan Smith on Lawson (in fact, for that reason I personally think Nolan should start but it sounds like that ship sailed). I like Singler on Thompson and Henderson on Green. I think McClure gives Hansbrough fits and Zoubek/Thomas/Plumlee have 15 fouls between them. So assuming Paulus can neutralize Ellington, I feel really good about the game.

Let's go Duke!

Wheat/"/"/"
02-11-2009, 10:53 AM
Adding David (and maybe Email or Plum in case of foul trouble) I think your numbers are going to be basically correct. K does shorten his bench in big games more often than not.

That said, I think there's a really good argument for Duke going the other way and playing 10 guys in an overly-aggressive style. Really in-your-face D and creating contact offensively would lead to lots of fouls and cut down on fast-break opportunities. I'd be perfectly willing, for example, to trade 8-10 fouls on Plumlee, Z, and Lance for 5 on Hans. I'd also rather see a close charge-block call at halfcourt (even if they go against us 70% of the time tonight) than a runout dunk, especially if Elliot and Green are exchanging fouls.

UNC goes 8 deep and then it's walkons. Duke goes 10-11 deep with guys that do something well (Plumlee and Marty are 10 and 11) so the more that we use our bench the more foul trouble and fatigue are a factor.

To be clear, I don't think K will do anything like this. Most likely he will push 3-4 players for 39+ minutes and trust G and Kyle to get the better of their advantages relative to what we give up in the post and at the PG spot. I do think my idea is interesting and I am comforted by having quality (if very young) emergency backups on the wing and in the post.

I totally expect Duke to get right up in UNC's grill on defense, the entire game. As I mentioned in another post UNC can struggle in the 1/2 court with the dribble and good passing. Spacing will be Key for UNC along with good entry passes while pounding it inside.
Steals, deflections, aggressive rebounding, run and pop the 3's are Duke's only way to win. Can they do it? Can they not lose their legs?
I expect a fairly high scoring game...something like 88-72? That would be Heels 88, BTW :)

CameronBornAndBred
02-11-2009, 11:08 AM
Wheat, you're leaving out David McClure; he's been a very important player for Duke recently.
Yup, replace Zoubek with McClure. Zoubs didn't see any second half time vs. Miami and shouldn't have. I love Brian, but he won't be out there much tonight.

Wheat/"/"/"
02-11-2009, 11:10 AM
One other thing....

I just read the Barry Jacobs article linked on the front page.

He closes with this: "How these matchups play out will determine the ACC leader with the regular-season race already headed into the home stretch. Not to mention whetting our appetites for the March 8 rematch at Chapel Hill.


Discussing those matchups, he never mentioned NPOY HansIownU's matchup in the biggest game of the season so far. Not once in his game breakdown of key matchups.
I'm sorry but that is journalistic malpractice.
I've seen this time and time again. The lack of respect for TH is crazy, just because his style is like Playcaller says... "unorthodox" doesn't mean he's not a player...and arguably "THE" player to watch out for.

Give me a break Barry. Try writing a recipe book next time on how to boil water.

Chitowndevil
02-11-2009, 11:12 AM
I'm not sure if this has been discussed earlier but the Barry Jacobs article linked to in the front page has a quote from Nolan that he's been "battling injuries"...back spasms.

Hopefully, he's recovering well or better yet is fully recovered.

I was wondering this myself. The Nolan Smith we've seen since about Mid January has just not been the same player we saw early in the season. Entering the Georgia Tech game, Nolan had scored double figures in 11 out of 15 contests and had only one game without an assist. Since then he's scored in double figures only twice in 8 contests, and more alarmingly had ZERO assists in five of those games.

(Sorry this is off topic)

Wheat/"/"/"
02-11-2009, 11:16 AM
Yup, replace Zoubek with McClure. Zoubs didn't see any second half time vs. Miami and shouldn't have. I love Brian, but he won't be out there much tonight.

I'd say he will be there, for some Dutch Boy D. (4 quick, tough fouls to try and keep a finger in the dike). :)

Wheat/"/"/"
02-11-2009, 11:19 AM
I'd be OK with that myself.. UNC held Maryland to 30% shooting from 3 and won by 17...106-91.



You crazies are slipping...Here I tee it up for you and wait.....

Wander
02-11-2009, 11:21 AM
You crazies are slipping...Here I tee it up for you and wait.....

You need a hobby dude.

jipops
02-11-2009, 11:21 AM
I was wondering this myself. The Nolan Smith we've seen since about Mid January has just not been the same player we saw early in the season. Entering the Georgia Tech game, Nolan had scored double figures in 11 out of 15 contests and had only one game without an assist. Since then he's scored in double figures only twice in 8 contests, and more alarmingly had ZERO assists in five of those games.

(Sorry this is off topic)

This is hardly off topic. This could have a huge effect on tonight's game to Duke's detriment. Clearly there is something going on with Nolan for his play to fall off like it has.

Wheat/"/"/"
02-11-2009, 11:32 AM
You need a hobby dude.

I have one, how do you like it so far?
Being self employed is a wonderful thing.

jv001
02-11-2009, 11:32 AM
One other thing....

I just read the Barry Jacobs article linked on the front page.

He closes with this: "How these matchups play out will determine the ACC leader with the regular-season race already headed into the home stretch. Not to mention whetting our appetites for the March 8 rematch at Chapel Hill.


Discussing those matchups, he never mentioned NPOY HansIownU's matchup in the biggest game of the season so far. Not once in his game breakdown of key matchups.
I'm sorry but that is journalistic malpractice.
I've seen this time and time again. The lack of respect for TH is crazy, just because his style is like Playcaller says... "unorthodox" doesn't mean he's not a player...and arguably "THE" player to watch out for.

Give me a break Barry. Try writing a recipe book next time on how to boil water.

Maybe just maybe Barry is expecting the zebras to make the correct calls when it comes to hanstravel. You know traveling, fouling, flopping, etc. Then he's just a good player not a great player. Oh I know he works so doggone hard. Duke by 2...77-75...Go Duke!

brumby041
02-11-2009, 12:04 PM
I'd be OK with that myself.. UNC held Maryland to 30% shooting from 3 and won by 17...106-91.

:)

This must be more of that "Hansbrough" math*.:D

106-91 = 17?


*If this comment doesn't make sense, see the George Carl thread for details on Hans' math test...

jipops
02-11-2009, 12:44 PM
I just think UNC is too strong this year for Duke. It should be a double digit win, and if we wake up tomorrow and see a headline "Blowout!", which team is likely to be on the winning side?

Note: I realize that me stepping in here using my favorite new Hanbrough nickname and using words like Blowout! might raise a few hackles. Good!
It's a rivalry game for heaven's sake. And the board is best when the jucies are flowing.
But please don't think I have anything less than great respect for everything Duke. I just want to see my team win a big game and have a little fun riding along.

Here's to a great game. Cheers!

While I definitely wouldn't be happy with Duke losing a close one, a blowout is what I fear the most tonight.

Great to have a rival fan who is a rational poster on this board.

mgtr
02-11-2009, 12:53 PM
This must be more of that "Hansbrough" math*.:D

106-91 = 17?


*If this comment doesn't make sense, see the George Carl thread for details on Hans' math test...

Now, now, we can't be too tough on our guests tonight. Poor folks have had a tough time this year, expecting to go unbeaten and all.

whereinthehellami
02-11-2009, 12:55 PM
Duke is 2nd to last in the ACC in FG% for ACC games (Techsideline) at 39.7%. UVA is last at 39.6%. UNC is at 44.4% (tied for 3rd). That is almost a 5% difference and is significant.

The leader in FG% in the ACC for ACC games is VT @ 46.1%. Who would have thought that?

loran16
02-11-2009, 01:19 PM
Not sure if someone's pointed this out yet, but still i was reading articles on the game like i always do pre-game and saw this:

http://www.cbssports.com/cbssports/story/11366163

Note the picture, which is A. Two years old and B. Not of Kville but of Goestenkoersville, the small (6 i think) tent group for the undefeated duke's WOMEN vs Carolina.

I mean, they've gotta have a more recent picture. Seriously..

KyDevilinIL
02-11-2009, 01:55 PM
It should be a double digit win, and if we wake up tomorrow and see a headline "Blowout!", which team is likely to be on the winning side?

I understand what you're saying and don't necessarily disagree. But I had the exact same thought before Duke-Clemson, and that didn't exactly work out so well. You never know.

The Gordog
02-11-2009, 02:08 PM
One other thing....

I just read the Barry Jacobs article linked on the front page.

He closes with this: "How these matchups play out will determine the ACC leader with the regular-season race already headed into the home stretch. Not to mention whetting our appetites for the March 8 rematch at Chapel Hill.


Discussing those matchups, he never mentioned NPOY HansIownU's matchup in the biggest game of the season so far. Not once in his game breakdown of key matchups.
I'm sorry but that is journalistic malpractice.
I've seen this time and time again. The lack of respect for TH is crazy, just because his style is like Playcaller says... "unorthodox" doesn't mean he's not a player...and arguably "THE" player to watch out for.

Give me a break Barry. Try writing a recipe book next time on how to boil water.

Give Jacobs (and us!) a break. The reason he doesn't mention the "matchup" tyler faces is because carowhina has the clear advantage at that position. It's just not interesting. The other matchups are.

Matches
02-11-2009, 02:14 PM
Now, now, we can't be too tough on our guests tonight. Poor folks have had a tough time this year, expecting to go unbeaten and all.

Well, they ARE unbeaten in the games they won.

It's just the other ones where they've had trouble.

This post has been brought to you by Digger Phelps.

socaldukie
02-11-2009, 02:16 PM
has had recent injuries. Most notably back spasms.

slower
02-11-2009, 02:38 PM
Anybody else think E-Will can/will spend some time on Ellington? Seems like a possibility.

NSDukeFan
02-11-2009, 03:19 PM
Jon struggles for part of the night (shooting only), then finds a way to make a couple of shots and/or couple of key plays at the end as we win a close one. As much as he has struggled shooting this year, this would not be unheard of from him.
Go Duke!

BlueintheFace
02-11-2009, 03:50 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxxCWbde6sc

I love this rivalry

bjornolf
02-11-2009, 04:44 PM
Everything leading up to tonight means nothing tonight. Everything after tonight means nothing tonight.

Just remember '95.

captmojo
02-11-2009, 05:40 PM
I just got home and need to rest up for the contest, so I have not the time to read over what everyone has been writing here. That out of the way, I'll get right to it.

BEAT THEM DOWN THE FLOOR ON DEFENSE! This is most important. They want to run and gun. Don't allow them this luxury. Be quick and know your assignments. Communicate.

Treasure every possession. Make all possessions efficient. No turnovers.

Take your time and connect on free throw opportunities. Don't leave scoring chances lost at the line. If you got there...you earned it. Make the most of it.

They are evil and must be destroyed. That is all.

LET'S GO DUKE!

9F9F9F exponentially.

Wheat/"/"/"
02-11-2009, 06:33 PM
This must be more of that "Hansbrough" math*.:D

106-91 = 17?


Knew somebody would be payin' attention. Sorry man, I'm easily entertained. :)

Great interview with Seth Davis on the front page.

rthomas
02-11-2009, 06:48 PM
I predict that the damn Uconn vs Syracuse game goes on for fricking ever and we miss the beginning of our game.

ESP f&&*(*&N!!!!!

You wanna bet? Let's watch UCONN(victs) try to shoot free throws. &*%%&(^&%*^&(^!!!!!!!!

Ignatius07
02-11-2009, 06:53 PM
I bet the scheduled tip is not till 9:10 to account for this. This is a marquee event for ESPN - I have a hard time believing they'd not televise the beginning of the game.

But if it does happen... is having Raycom then a blessing in disguise?

91devil
02-11-2009, 07:51 PM
Gthc gthc gthc

MonitorMom
02-11-2009, 08:00 PM
Tar Hole Jeers (see other sheet for details on some)
Davis: Daddyís boy! or Royís third choice!
Ellington: Geraldís better!
Green: You canít dance!
Hansbrough: You flop! You Wine! You travel every time! or Tyler travels! Every time!
Lawson: Ty fought the Law, and the Law won!
Williams: Roy is diz-zy! Clap, Clap, Clap-Clap-Clap

Duke79UNLV77
02-11-2009, 08:16 PM
Playcaller's likely explanation: it shouldn't be called because it's not called?

KenTankerous
02-11-2009, 08:25 PM
Baryshnikov in shorts! bwahahahaha

Duke79UNLV77
02-11-2009, 08:42 PM
He may be growing more comfortable in his role.

Will someone please remind Frasor he's a career 30% 3p shooter, and worse this year?

dukebballcamper90-91
02-11-2009, 08:43 PM
Paulus needs to be the one we look to for the 3 ball more. Henderson needs a break more often.

_Gary
02-11-2009, 08:51 PM
I know we are winning and playing great, but danged if these zebras haven't made some really bad calls that have all gone against us. If not for that, we'd be up by at least a dozen.

arnie
02-11-2009, 08:56 PM
Thank the Lord Ole Roy doesn't know how to call a timeout. Great run by the good guys with no interruptions.

House G
02-11-2009, 08:57 PM
I just wish ESPN would show replays on some of the fouls (e.g. the second one on Zoo)

Duvall
02-11-2009, 08:57 PM
I know we are winning and playing great, but danged if these zebras haven't made some really bad calls that have all gone against us. If not for that, we'd be up by at least a dozen.

Instead Duke is up eight?

_Gary
02-11-2009, 08:59 PM
Instead Duke is up eight?

And I'm thrilled! But that doesn't negate what I said, does it?

My biggest concern was that McClure picked up three, and I thought his third was really a bad call. Zoub's 2nd was bad too, IMHO. But it's hard to get too worked up when you are winning. I just want to have Dave available at the end if we need him to lock down on defense.

P.S. One gametracker says Z only has one foul, but I could have sworn the announcers said he had two.

Kfanarmy
02-11-2009, 09:01 PM
unbelievable impact that missing a couple of shots had on the 1st half...once Carolina started shooting a reasonable %, the game started to turn. Duke D seems to have adjusted to Carolina speed. Keep it up, keep it up!!

Hancock 4 Duke
02-11-2009, 09:02 PM
Instead Duke is up eight?

Yes, but remember, the referees can never make any team win. The team does that themselves.

jv001
02-11-2009, 09:06 PM
Yes, but remember, the referees can never make any team win. The team does that themselves.

Yes, but you have to admit there have been some very questionable calls. I don't usually comment on the zebras, but this is unc we are playing so I'm not too surprised. Go Duke!

_Gary
02-11-2009, 09:27 PM
Singler just picked up #4. Could be a turning point. And the announcers still haven't mentioned it. Boy these guys are really on the ball, aren't they.

Duke79UNLV77
02-11-2009, 09:32 PM
officiating is very bad

_Gary
02-11-2009, 09:35 PM
Lawson is killing us right now with his drives.

Duke79UNLV77
02-11-2009, 09:35 PM
when lawson is on the ground out of bounds?

_Gary
02-11-2009, 09:39 PM
It took the announcers well over 3 minutes of elapsed playing time before they mentioned that Singler had four fouls. That's just horrible, under any circumstances. I'm normally not a Dickie V basher like many here, but he and what's his name need to get on the ball a bit more. They've missed quite a few things in this game.

EDIT: Now they tell us he's only got three. Wish they'd get the info right.

_Gary
02-11-2009, 09:47 PM
Anyone else getting a tad worried? I can feel it getting away from us right now.

BlueHeaven
02-11-2009, 09:49 PM
Yes. It's like a train wreck. I can't watch, but I can't look away.

Huh?
02-11-2009, 09:51 PM
Lawson is killing us right now with his drives.

Lawson is killing Paulus, go figure

devildownunder
02-11-2009, 09:53 PM
At work and can't watch. where'd the offense go in the 2nd half? is it foul trouble?

_Gary
02-11-2009, 09:54 PM
Unless Jason Williams is going to be walking through the door in the next few seconds, I think we can turn out the lights. This party is all but over, guys. :(

At this point, I'm just hoping the guys can finish strong and not let this be a blowout (20+). I'd really hate to see it get that bad, but I think it might.

DukeHoopsGuru
02-11-2009, 09:54 PM
Look. The kid plays hard. He's a pretty good shooter. But you're seeing tonight (just like against Belmont of all teams) how much it hurts your team when you have a point guard who can't get to the rim, and can't guard a soul. Ty Lawson owned Greg Paulus. Look at my post earlier when it was announced Paulus was starting. If the kid isn't shooting, he needs to be on the bench. Why is it so hard for some Duke fans to see what everyone else sees. Kid's tough, but he's not even an ACC point guard.

Huh?
02-11-2009, 09:55 PM
please please please K, we need athletes.

CameronBornAndBred
02-11-2009, 09:56 PM
I've turned off my tv, only listening. I can't watch what we are doing anymore. Grrrr. Pull it out Duke.

arnie
02-11-2009, 09:56 PM
Give Lawson his due - he knew he was superior to anything we could put out there and backed it up. We just don't have the personnel.

Ian
02-11-2009, 09:57 PM
Lawson is blowing by Smith too.

HDB
02-11-2009, 09:57 PM
Good effort tonight, but it's simple --- they are that much better than us right now.

I really wish Lawson had gone pro --- he's the difference maker for UNC.

Son of Mojo
02-11-2009, 09:57 PM
Geez......we just have let this thing get away from us......very disheartening right now. I don't know if we've got 17 pt. magic that we can weave right now--God I hope we do.

Les Grossman
02-11-2009, 09:58 PM
No dribble penetration + no low post play = jump shooting team.

Jump shooting teams win if they're hot, lose if they're not.

Les Grossman
02-11-2009, 10:01 PM
that must be killing K. But his guards can't penetrate off the dribble, and he doesn't have a low post man.

Hancock 4 Duke
02-11-2009, 10:02 PM
Duke had their half of the season in the first half. I didn't tink that theywould do so in the second half.

_Gary
02-11-2009, 10:04 PM
Yep. The reality is that we still need some more athletes on this team in order to compete at the very top. The 1 and the 5 are the glaring weaknesses (as we've all mentioned so many times before).

At least we get a little help here with Scheyer being fouled on a three. Maybe we can make this respectable.

devildownunder
02-11-2009, 10:07 PM
Not quite over yet. Good to see our guys fight to the end.

Huh?
02-11-2009, 10:09 PM
It was over when Hansborough hit that BS three

should_be_working
02-11-2009, 10:10 PM
Yep, we absolutely suck, coach K can't recruit. Wonder how we are still ranked the #5 team in the nation, wonder how we've been #1 with that aweful talant. How in the world can this pre-season #1 team in the nation loaded with talant that just won't leave early possibly beat us?? Especially in a game where we were ahead by 8. We certainly can't even play with them with such bad players like tall and lanky singler.

Sarcasm.

Lulu
02-11-2009, 10:12 PM
My only question regarding this game is what happened in the first half...

Did we actually play some fine offense and finally get in sync with each other, or was Carolina's defense just that atrocious? That's all I want to know.

Cdog923
02-11-2009, 10:12 PM
Yep, we absolutely suck, coach K can't recruit. Wonder how we are still ranked the #5 team in the nation, wonder how we've been #1 with that aweful talant. How in the world can this pre-season #1 team in the nation loaded with talant that just won't leave early possibly beat us?? Especially in a game where we were ahead by 8. We certainly can't even play with them with such bad players like tall and lanky singler.

Sarcasm.


You can be sarcastic as you want, but it doesn't change that fact that until we get a reliable scorer at the 5, we won't get to where we want to be, in the ACC or the Big Dance.