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doctorhook
04-05-2007, 06:30 PM
Jay,

I am a long time Duke fan and have no hidden agenda. I watched most if not all of your games at Duke, including ACC tourneys, and post season, including FF. This is not a flame, and I have great respect for your abilities, knowledge and Duke loyalty. My question is this: As an announcer and a Duke alum, how difficult is it to separate your Duke loyalty from your commentary? And more specifically, have there been times when you have made a conscious effort to tone down your Duke support/enthusiasm? In addition have you ever found yourself getting too enthusiastic in your support for another team ( UNC or other ) in part to be unbiased? Finally, do you review your own work ( watch tape as it were ) or are you too busy to do that? If you do that review, I have a specific question about a specific telecast. Thanks, Doc

Exiled_Devil
04-05-2007, 07:53 PM
Dr. Hook -
I'm not sure if Jay comes around here much lately. the last time I saw him post was a year or two ago. Not sure if that means he isn't reading, but I just wanted to give you a heads-up in case you don' get a response.

Anyone know better than me?

Exiled
Of course, I keep harboring the idea that Jumbo is really Jay in disguise.

Uncle Drew
04-05-2007, 08:05 PM
Yes I am a life long Duke fan and all that stuff yada, yada, yada. But a few years ago I found out you were the "good alien" in the movie I Come IN Peace. (I didn't recognize you.) How freakin' long did it take them to do the make up each day before a shoot? And you did a decent job in the movie, why'd you give up acting?

Duke15304
04-05-2007, 08:59 PM
he is the best color guy in the game, i hope he takes over for packer soon, anyway, i think its a good thing he isnt bias, if you are going to do national games, you can be bias

DukeDevilDeb
04-05-2007, 09:43 PM
I like him as well. But I was really floored the other day when two Florida supports and 4 UNC supporters were saying that Bilas was their favorite "Duke" announcer because he understood that Duke really wasn't so great and was committed to communicating that to the basketball world! :(

I do think that sometimes Jay is so busy being neutral that he forgets that Duke really is occasionally capable of doing something good!

madscavenger
04-06-2007, 01:37 AM
Of course, I keep harboring the idea that Jumbo is really Jay in disguise.


Similar basketball IQs, but i don't believe Jay has ever used an elephant gun.

;) ;)

Bostondevil
04-06-2007, 08:24 AM
I think Jay does a good job of remaining neutral unlike the rest of them at ESPN where the E stands for Evil. If you're a Carolina homer, go ahead, state your preferences, we don't care! (Do you think the commercial would have aired if they'd called Hubert or Stuart 'Tarheel Boy'?) I also suspect if Jay let a Duke bias show, they'd fire him. Dickie V gets a pass because, let's be honest, he loves everybody, not just Duke.

I've decided I'm very anti-ESPN lately. They are the biggest sports game in town and despite showing all our games, they are virulently anti-Duke, so I'm taking a break. Luckily the Sox are broadcast on a local cable channel and I can skip any games on ESPN this summer. Don't know what I'll do during basketball season, I might feel it's safe to go back in the water by then. Plus my kids might overrule me.

ArkieDukie
04-06-2007, 08:28 AM
I actually found myself preferring to see our games on FoxSports.

RelativeWays
04-06-2007, 10:15 AM
I think Jay does a good job of remaining neutral unlike the rest of them at ESPN where the E stands for Evil. If you're a Carolina homer, go ahead, state your preferences, we don't care! (Do you think the commercial would have aired if they'd called Hubert or Stuart 'Tarheel Boy'?) I also suspect if Jay let a Duke bias show, they'd fire him. Dickie V gets a pass because, let's be honest, he loves everybody, not just Duke.

I've decided I'm very anti-ESPN lately. They are the biggest sports game in town and despite showing all our games, they are virulently anti-Duke, so I'm taking a break. Luckily the Sox are broadcast on a local cable channel and I can skip any games on ESPN this summer. Don't know what I'll do during basketball season, I might feel it's safe to go back in the water by then. Plus my kids might overrule me.

I've never really seen this perceived bias from Stuart Scott. Whenever he does color for the Duke highlights, he's treated them to the same "BOOYAH" flair he does everyone else. Hubert Davis I think does a pretty excellent job and is similar to Jay in the respect of giving analysis from a neutral standpoint. The only ESPN college BB commentator I've felt seems to dislike Duke is Digger.

Bluedog
04-06-2007, 10:17 AM
I've never really seen this perceived bias from Stuart Scott. Whenever he does color for the Duke highlights, he's treated them to the same "BOOYAH" flair he does everyone else. Hubert Davis I think does a pretty excellent job and is similar to Jay in the respect of giving analysis from a neutral standpoint. The only ESPN college BB commentator I've felt seems to dislike Duke is Digger.

And Doug Gottlieb, come on. That guy is the worst ever.

calltheobvious
04-06-2007, 11:15 AM
I've never really seen this perceived bias from Stuart Scott. Whenever he does color for the Duke highlights, he's treated them to the same "BOOYAH" flair he does everyone else. Hubert Davis I think does a pretty excellent job and is similar to Jay in the respect of giving analysis from a neutral standpoint. The only ESPN college BB commentator I've felt seems to dislike Duke is Digger.

Question: What do you think the chances are that Stuart Scott didn't watch the Georgetown-UNC game? Near zero, I'd say.

When he did the highlights that night for SportsCenter, he used the word "airball" to describe the beautiful assist Green made to Ewing on the I'm-going-to-shoot-over-two-guys-no-I'm-not-I'm-going-to-give-my-teammate-a-lay-up play during their 2nd-half run to force OT.

Now, even if he didn't see the play live, do you think the PA who wrote his script would leave out the fact that the play was CLEARLY a pass? Nope. There's no way in hell that that was an innocent mistake.

Stuart Scott is petty and small. And if Bilas had short-changed Ellington like that, he'd be forced to write some sort of correction in his next espn.com piece.

dukeENG2003
04-06-2007, 11:25 AM
And Doug Gottlieb, come on. That guy is the worst ever.

Doug Gottlieb is funny he's so bad. The only thing he hates more than Duke is Andy Katz. Anyone see their final four preview stuff together? He always tried to go out of his way to say that Andy was wrong. It was hilarious.

doctorhook
04-06-2007, 04:37 PM
Stuart Scott usually is pretty direct and almost admits his bias. Doc

DukeDevilsBB
04-06-2007, 04:49 PM
Stuart Scott is on of the worst when it comes to bias. Bilas is the man in my book...he calls it like it is. I did however think he went overboard on Hansbrough in that MSU game this yr.

HK Dukie
04-06-2007, 05:33 PM
I really like Bilas, he actually knows what he is talking about, unlike most of announcers out there. I'm proud that such a well-spoken, intelligent, and humble person is representing Duke in such a prominent role.

That said, I do however share a slight sense of him being a bit harsh on Duke at times in the past few years, but honestly it is very minor (especially relative to 75% of the media out there). I also don't begrudge him at all, because sometimes it is necessary to be overly polite and concessionary to establish your credentials. He is just trying to build a career, and as long as he isn't overtly negative I think we should cut him some slack. I'm sure over time he will come back into the fold.

Milbarge
04-06-2007, 10:08 PM
I try not to get too caught up in the hunt for bias; I think most of these folks just want a good story or some controversy that will drive ratings. So we get a lot of "Why do people love Duke?" and then when that gets old it's "Why do people hate Duke?" without much acknowledgment that they're the ones driving both the love and the hate for casual viewers (i.e., people who don't come into it with their minds already made up). I like Jay Bilas mainly because he's smart enough to know he'll never please everyone, so he doesn't try (unless someone accuses him of hating UCLA, whereupon he goes off).

Anyway, on Digger Phelps and whether he's a Duke-hater or not, I recall an anecdote from John Feinstein's book about the 1978 Duke team and its remarkable run to the national championship game. (It's called "Forever's Team.") Duke beat Notre Dame in the Final Four to advance, and Feinstein says that after that game, lots of other coaches made a point to thank Bill Foster for knocking the Irish out, or else they'd have never heard the end of Digger's crowing about playing for (and possibly winning) a title. It turned out to be Notre Dame's only Final Four appearance to date. I may be misremembering the details, but the gist of it is that Digger wasn't too well-liked within the coaching fraternity. I suppose it's possible that Phelps retains some anti-Duke feelings almost thirty years later. I think he's mainly just crotchety.

Obviously I can't verify Feinstein's anecdote, but it doesn't strike me as unbelievable given Digger's documented high self-regard. How many people remember when Digger announced, in all seriousness, that he was going to run for President, either in 2000 or 2004? Here's one link mentioning it:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4207/is_19950120/ai_n10181882
All I can say is, if a guy with Digger Phelps's experience thinks he's qualified to be President, goodness knows what he'd think he was qualified to do if he'd won that championship in 1978.

Lulu
04-07-2007, 04:10 AM
Everyone is so harsh on Jay for not showing some kind of Duke bias... but I don't think he goes out of his way at all to be anti-Duke. I mean, I'll bet he's more often correct in what he says about the Duke teams than anyone on these boards. We might not like to hear it... but he's usually right in what he says.

Latest example for me was him saying that Duke may well have trouble with VCU. I sure hated to hear that... but then we up and lose anyway...

And so he thought Carolina would destroy us this year.... well they did. Whether it was our D, our O, or certain players Jay almost always calls it right.

The only times I think Jay might have a problem are the years when Duke truly is great. You can't expect him to be the first on the bandwagon; he really would get fired, well, once upon a time, I'm starting to think ESPN is really learning to appreciate what they got there so maybe that's not true anymore.

When Jay critiques us I hate I hate to hear it but I think it's really only because I don't much like the truth in some cases and prefer to keep my biased thoughts.

And I echo whoever said they are proud to have him out there representing Duke. I try not to be biased in my feelings towards Bilas, but he's far and away the best at what he does imo; it's not even close.

doctorhook
04-07-2007, 07:23 AM
Lulu,

Most sensible fans think Jay is great at what he does, and he is more accurate than most with his calls. I do not mind criticism of Duke by him or anybody else particularly in a year where the team had plenty of obvious weaknesses. No objective fan was suprised by our loss to VCU or UNC although I would not describe those losses as being "destroyed". I actually am more suprised by his excessively positive comments about UNC. I know the holes were better this year, and I know they were more talented, that was pretty apparent. I just am of the opinion that Jay gets too enthusiastic ( consciously or otherwise ) in an attempt to be non-biased towards Duke. The UNC/MSU game is the prime example. TH is a great player, he hustles, aggressive, etc, and we all know he would have helped us tremendously. However, if you listened to that game, I think Jay said over and over about how he did this/that. I am just as annoyed when an announcer harps on McRoberts passing ablility, JJ's shooting ( Mike Patrick ). Doc

DUKIECB
12-20-2007, 01:33 PM
Looks like with Dickie V out of action, Jay will be filling in. Jay will be doing tonights game along with Dan Shulman and Doris Burke. In my opinion Jay is one of the better announcers out there right now. Nice to see him get the nod over the other ESPN candidates.

Trinity84
12-20-2007, 01:56 PM
Looks like with Dickie V out of action, Jay will be filling in. Jay will be doing tonights game along with Dan Shulman and Doris Burke. In my opinion Jay is one of the better announcers out there right now. Nice to see him get the nod over the other ESPN candidates.

Gottlieb not available?

Devil in the Blue Dress
12-20-2007, 02:26 PM
Looks like with Dickie V out of action, Jay will be filling in. Jay will be doing tonights game along with Dan Shulman and Doris Burke. In my opinion Jay is one of the better announcers out there right now. Nice to see him get the nod over the other ESPN candidates.

I heartily concur! Jay has great credibility because he is fair and insightful when he comments and analyzes the play on and off the court.

dukerev
12-20-2007, 02:49 PM
I also enjoy Jay and agree that he works hard to be objective. But no matter what he says, simply because he is a Duke grad/former player, this will be more fuel for the fire that espn loves Duke, etc.

weezie
12-20-2007, 03:44 PM
He did a nice job in Maui.

devilirium
01-16-2008, 10:21 PM
I know that he's a regular poster, but tonite wasn't one of his better games. I can understand being "unbiased", but there was a helluva lot of rough play that went unnoticed by JB--and a lot of it wasn't on the Duke end.

Yes, he looked prescient when stating if he thought that FSU would have enough in the tank with 5 minutes left, but there were a lot of missed observations (the Henderson dunk off the missed free throw, the Gottlieb nature of the Duke missed calls---"I don't like that call"--never said anything like that with respect to FSU--and believe me there was ample opportunity to criticize the FSU player's whining, rough tactics, and calls that were similar going the other direction, etc).

feldspar
01-16-2008, 10:48 PM
It makes no difference how far the player is under the basket. It's still an offensive foul. Please, please, please stop perpetuating this NBA philosophy in college basketball.

We don't need the college rules (especially regarding defense) diluted as they have been in the NBA. It's not good for the game and you and your fellow commentators, as the "voices" of college basketball, if you will, have a responsibility to be guardians of sorts of the rules.

One of those rules is that a defensive player is entitled to his position no matter where he is on the court, as long as he has established that position legally. Defense--great defense--is what makes college basketball great. It has been the hallmark of all the great championship teams, especially Duke's. It may seem small, but comments like yours tonight take away from that tradition of defensive excellence. They cheapen the greatest defensive play in basketball--drawing the charge.

P.S. You did make a good point, however, that Nolan might not have actually gotten there quite in time, but I'll defer to the guy in stripes who was four feet away from the play.

crimsonandblue
01-16-2008, 11:04 PM
Dear Jay,

You have my permission to strangle Mike Patrick.

Very truly yours,
/s/ Baby Jesus

DevilCastDownfromDurham
01-17-2008, 12:32 AM
I agree with everything on this thread, especially the part about Patrick.

dukemomLA
01-17-2008, 03:45 AM
Mike Patrick is soooo annoying, that if I had radio coverage here in L.A., I'd shut off the sound. He's uninformed, always grating. Sigh..what's to be done?

Jay B pisses me off, since he tries to be 'so unbiased,' since he's a Dukie. BUT he always, always goes the other way -- even when it is not warranted. About 'done' with him also.

heyman25
01-17-2008, 05:07 AM
It was refreshing to hear Mike Gminski. He calls the game well unlike Bilas who goes beyond the pale to make sure noone thinks he may be on Duke's side. I am actually sick of the guy. I remember going to meet the team in 86 at Northgate in Durham and he was aloof to the point of nearly being rude.

billybreen
01-17-2008, 05:58 AM
Open letter to Bilas: 2B

captmojo
01-17-2008, 06:20 AM
:rolleyes: I'm far much more annoyed by the current crop of editors in the truck. Why, this season particularly, do they feel it's so important to keep showing some blank-faced player, sitting on the bench, or somebody in the stands, while the ball has been put in play? Do they possibly think nothing could happen we would miss out on seeing? Have they no concept of the chance of a turnover?

New editors, or changes in their thinking, would be much more welcome from my perspective.

sandinmyshoes
01-17-2008, 06:27 AM
:rolleyes: I'm far much more annoyed by the current crop of editors in the truck. Why, this season particularly, do they feel it's so important to keep showing some blank-faced player, sitting on the bench, or somebody in the stands, while the ball has been put in play? Do they possibly think nothing could happen we would miss out on seeing? Have they no concept of the chance of a turnover?

New editors, or changes in their thinking, would be much more welcome from my perspective.


I say amen to that. These complaints about Jay are juvenile, but the over-emphasis on everything except the actual game is driving me nuts!

UncleBill
01-17-2008, 06:30 AM
I remember going to meet the team in 86 at Northgate in Durham and he was aloof to the point of nearly being rude.To be fair, Jay was pretty shy in his undergrad years outside the circle of teammates, and that "aloofness" in 86 was likely a result of this rather than him being an ^$%^$%^$%^$%^$%^$%^$%. I found him quite approachable and nice back then. As for calling the game, he seems to be a bit outside his comfort zone these days, trying too hard. They need new talking points, I am getting tired of hearing the same damned anecdotes each game.

du_bb1
01-17-2008, 06:44 AM
think ye who are critcal of Jay------get over it--it tells it like he sees it and does as good a job or better than any other wiyhout sugar coating his comments----good job Jay !

weezie
01-17-2008, 07:35 AM
I agree. Jay is OK by me. The editors in the truck, yes, they're idiots.
Jay had the guts to publicly take on the administration over the lax mess. I won't forget how he stepped up. He's still our "Duke Boy!"
And Patrick does need to soak his head for a while.

bluedev_92
01-17-2008, 07:40 AM
I like Jay, but last night some of the comments were a bit hard to take. The constant drone from both commentators regarding charges is so common now that it is almost expected - can we give the refs the benefit of the doubt on some of these calls? Talk about perpetuating the myth that "Duke gets all of the calls". I could even get past that, but during the replays of the "punch" from the FSU player, Jay seems to insinuate that since Paulus went hard for the ball to slap it away, that the reply was somehow justified.. It wasn't said in so many words, but that was the feeling I had after the comment was made. Maybe I'm wrong - I didn't listen to it a bunch of times - so I'd have to go back to the tape to quote what was actually said, but the comment definitely gave me an uneasy feeling...

whereinthehellami
01-17-2008, 07:43 AM
I watch the games muted. You see much more of the game without the distractions called "announcers".

I wish there was an option for an open mike on the court though. I like the crowd noise, sneaker squeeks, and other ambient sounds.

bjornolf
01-17-2008, 07:44 AM
I generally like Jay's commentary, but last night wasn't one of his better games. The comments on the under the basket thing WERE pretty bad.

This is a comment both on the commentators and the editors: There wasn't a single mention of Henderson's dunk on the missed free throw, or a replay of it from a different angle. I HATE that under the basket camera on free throws. It really doesn't show me anything good about the shooter, and if he misses, I miss ALL the action that ensues. Do a closeup of the shooter's face before the shot, then switch to the long view during the shot! If you aren't going to comment on what Henderson did to get there or show a replay, just use the regular camera so I can see it myself! That drives me crazy. I've missed TONS of plays like that the last couple seasons thanks to the "closer" camera views, especially on fast breaks. On fast breaks, you can't see the play develop AT ALL, and if the shot is missed, you're totally in the dark. I say, use the long camera angle and if there's something cool in the closeup, show it in a replay.

Finally, did Paulus ever get to shoot a free throw for the technical when he got punched? They were so busy analyzing the play that I missed that entirely.

Also, on my TiVo, watching it multiple times, it seemed to me from the long camera zoomed in from the other baseline that it was NOT Reid's punch that did the most damage. It seemed like the first player that went for the ball smacked Paulus right in the nose and mouth pretty hard, resulting in Paulus' initial kick, THEN Reid hit him in the side of the head. Did anybody else see that? The commentator's didn't comment on that either. It seemed like his lip was swollen afterward and he was using a towel on it a lot, NOT on the side and back of his head. Thoughts?

-Joe

Duke79UNLV77
01-17-2008, 07:49 AM
First, I think Bilas is generally great, particularly when paired with Raftery. He has good knowledge of the game and a dry sense of humor.

That being said, I think he's so concerned with being called a Duke homer that he's become slanted against Duke. After one recent game there was a long thread on UNC's board that universally praised Jay. That's likely a sign that he's overcompensated.

As for charge calls, I disagree with Jay's philosophy. In college there is no large circle in the area of the basket where a charge is somehow permissible. The NBA's approach encourages Shaq-style lowering the shoulder from big men and out-of-control drives by guards and wings. I prefer the college rules that encourage hustling defense and skilled offense. Also, you shouldn't necessarily have to fall over to draw a charge, but it won't get called otherwise. Thus, the "flops." Jay does seem to question calls going our way more than calls going against us. For example, in the Pitt game Blair mugged Scheyer for a steal and breakaway in the first half. Bilas praised Blair for the defense and dismissively noted that there might have been some incidental contact. When a couple of calls went our way, he got spirited.

captmojo
01-17-2008, 07:51 AM
I generally like Jay's commentary, but last night wasn't one of his better games. The comments on the under the basket thing WERE pretty bad.

This is a comment both on the commentators and the editors: There wasn't a single mention of Henderson's dunk on the missed free throw, or a replay of it from a different angle. I HATE that under the basket camera on free throws. It really doesn't show me anything good about the shooter, and if he misses, I miss ALL the action that ensues. Do a closeup of the shooter's face before the shot, then switch to the long view during the shot! If you aren't going to comment on what Henderson did to get there or show a replay, just use the regular camera so I can see it myself! That drives me crazy. I've missed TONS of plays like that the last couple seasons thanks to the "closer" camera views, especially on fast breaks. On fast breaks, you can't see the play develop AT ALL, and if the shot is missed, you're totally in the dark. I say, use the long camera angle and if there's something cool in the closeup, show it in a replay.

Finally, did Paulus ever get to shoot a free throw for the technical when he got punched? They were so busy analyzing the play that I missed that entirely.

Also, on my TiVo, watching it multiple times, it seemed to me from the long camera zoomed in from the other baseline that it was NOT Reid's punch that did the most damage. It seemed like the first player that went for the ball smacked Paulus right in the nose and mouth pretty hard, resulting in Paulus' initial kick, THEN Reid hit him in the side of the head. Did anybody else see that? The commentator's didn't comment on that either. It seemed like his lip was swollen afterward and he was using a towel on it a lot, NOT on the side and back of his head. Thoughts?

-Joe

I saw what you saw. You are not alone. As is the case in many other instances, most folks will miss out on viewing action, but not the reaction.

Trinity84
01-17-2008, 07:54 AM
To be fair, Jay was pretty shy in his undergrad years outside the circle of teammates, and that "aloofness" in 86 was likely a result of this rather than him being an ^$%^$%^$%^$%^$%^$%^$%. I found him quite approachable and nice back then. As for calling the game, he seems to be a bit outside his comfort zone these days, trying too hard. They need new talking points, I am getting tired of hearing the same damned anecdotes each game.

Did you know GP was a quarterback in high school? Mr. Patrick, he's a junior, you've been saying the same thing for three years.

cajundevil74
01-17-2008, 08:17 AM
I can't stomach Bilas anymore. I'm so glad I listened to Bob Harris instead. I know the Bilas apologists on this board are going to scream, but ... the truth hurts.

1. Score 14-13 Duke. Bilas comments on how Reid is the difference in this game - says it twice and Patrick parrots it. What difference? So Reid is negative one? At least explain what difference you are talking about.

2. Missed Henderson dunk. No excuse.

3. Under the basket - if it's a charge its a charge - there is no dotted line in college like in the NBA.

4. Since when did he do this grunt-type thing with his voice like Rafftery? He sounds like he's trying to be hard. Ridiculous.

5. Jay uses "Great!" for everything! Jay - very few things are great.

6. Jay - where is the objectivity? How about every looseball out of bounds going to FSU regardless if it went off of an FSU player. No mention of that, but you mention every perceived slight that could benefit the devils.

Jay is morphing into a Vitale and Rafftery mix. Truly pathetic.

Sam

bjornolf
01-17-2008, 08:30 AM
I did, however, think Jay's comment that the game was going to come done to toughness more than anything else was actually pretty astute. He said it with several minutes to go, and I thought it was pretty good.

Speaking of which, can anyone recall a TOUGHER Duke team in recent history? I will reiterate what I said in another thread...just having Nate James in the general vicinity seems to make Duke players tougher. We've had better teams talent wise, but I can't recall a tougher one, mentally or physically. If the team from '99 (was it '98 or '99 that was so good?) had had this team's toughness combined with their talent, I don't think they'd have had a single close game all season.

Spret42
01-17-2008, 08:42 AM
On your back with your legs in the air is no way to play "skilled defense." It isn't defense.

I understand people love college basketball, but there is an epidemic in the game of defenders flopping around left and right. Sliding in at the last second under a man that has made a move and falling onto your back requires no skill. That isn't defense. Using angles, positioning and leaping ability to block, and alter shots while avoiding body contact is defense. I don't remember seeing old films of Bill Russell falling onto his rear end to stop a driving player. If you drove at him, he would wait on you to commit, go straight up in the air and alter or block the shot withouth crashing into you.

I don't remember Scottie Pippen, or Gary Payton considered by many the best perimeter defenders in history flopping around. They locked guys down by moving their feet, holding the position firmly, and using long long arms and leaping ability to alter shooting angles and take away passing lanes, forcing guys into a more difficult shots and more dangerous passes. You played defense by moving quicker than the other guy and holding the position, keeping your hands off the guy and creating the illusion nothing is availabe; it isn't done by falling onto your tuckus.

Maybe it is just the way I was raised to appreciate basketball. But falling over was never part of defense the way I was taught, the game is vertical on your feet or in the air, never horizontal on your back.

dukepsy1963
01-17-2008, 08:42 AM
I wish we could deemphasize all this talk about announcers. Some stink, some don't; and that's the way it is always going to be..........regardless of team, who's playing, decade, station/network, sport, etc.

What do we want; announcers to suit out in Duke blue? Really now.... Let them do their thing. We don't want to become known as whiners do we? Just let it/them be! Live with it!!

We won...that's the important news!!!

Highlander
01-17-2008, 08:43 AM
I watch the games muted. You see much more of the game without the distractions called "announcers".

I wish there was an option for an open mike on the court though. I like the crowd noise, sneaker squeeks, and other ambient sounds.

Someone said that if you listen to the game in 5.1 or better, and mute the center, L, and R channels, the surround speakers will just play ambient noise from the stadium.

However, I tried this with my receiver, and couldn't figure out how to mute the front 3 channels w/o yanking out wires.

Another option is to listen to the radio broadcast. If you can get the radio synched with the video, it is a thing of beauty.

4decadedukie
01-17-2008, 08:47 AM
For many years, I have noted that Jay tends to underemphasizes Duke's positives; perhaps this is wise -- and it certainly is understandable -- given his strong Duke affiliation. Nevertheless, a journalist with his obvious expertise and intelligence should be able report factually and, having done so, should not be concerned with potential criticism that he exhibits “alumni biases.”

RepoMan
01-17-2008, 09:09 AM
First, Bilas is better than most of the guys we have to suffer through--at least he seems to be watching the game and not using the event as an oppotunity to advance his own wierd views. Still . . .

I wholeheartedly agree that he appears to bend over backwards trying to appear unbiased. FSU was down by 8-10 points in 1st half, and he kept talking about how great the were playing. Every close call that went Duke's way was questionable. No such commentary about close call that went the other way. I mean, maybe that's how he saw it, but I think he is trying to defuse any Duke bias critique--which, in a sense, I suppose is understandable, given the prevailing sentiment toward Duke these days

Chard
01-17-2008, 09:17 AM
I generally like Jay's commentary, but last night wasn't one of his better games. The comments on the under the basket thing WERE pretty bad.

I mentioned before that I'd rather not watch another Duke game with Bilas announcing. If he can have the same enthusiasm for Duke players that he has for players on an opposing team I will change my mind.


This is a comment both on the commentators and the editors: There wasn't a single mention of Henderson's dunk on the missed free throw, or a replay of it from a different angle.

The hype that ESPN put on Impact Week or whatever they call it would make one think that they'd do a better job of broadcasting. The silence after the Henderson putback and then the lack of replay drove me nuts. It's like nobody in the control room or announcing was actually watching the game at times. I have to ask; Is ESPN any better than FSN when it comes to broadcasting a basketball game?


Finally, did Paulus ever get to shoot a free throw for the technical when he got punched? They were so busy analyzing the play that I missed that entirely.

I believe a double tech was called.


Also, on my TiVo, watching it multiple times, it seemed to me from the long camera zoomed in from the other baseline that it was NOT Reid's punch that did the most damage. It seemed like the first player that went for the ball smacked Paulus right in the nose and mouth pretty hard, resulting in Paulus' initial kick, THEN Reid hit him in the side of the head. Did anybody else see that? The commentator's didn't comment on that either. It seemed like his lip was swollen afterward and he was using a towel on it a lot, NOT on the side and back of his head. Thoughts?

-Joe

The first player was trying for the ball but after Paulus secured it, he clenched his fist and hit Paulus in the face. That is why Paulus began to react. I'm suprised DBR didn't mention that in the write up. Also, no mention of the thrown objects during and after the game. It was as close to the Maryland bottle throwing incident as I've seen since then. I'm really starting to dislike FSU.

devilirium
01-17-2008, 09:26 AM
I wish we could deemphasize all this talk about announcers. Some stink, some don't; and that's the way it is always going to be..........regardless of team, who's playing, decade, station/network, sport, etc.

What do we want; announcers to suit out in Duke blue? Really now.... Let them do their thing. We don't want to become known as whiners do we? Just let it/them be! Live with it!!

We won...that's the important news!!!


For what it's worth, I'm not much of a Vitale fan either. Though it's probably easier to identify play by play guys moreso than color guys as being favorites since they are typically more objective. Sean McDonough doesn't mind taking a stance but I've always considered him to be very good and consistent.

With Bilas, it seems like he's following the company line over at ESPN. You know the one....Vitale was going crazy over Duke and any frontrunner (yep, it's true won't deny it), so ESPN has instructed their talking heads like Digger, Gottlieb, Bilas, etc. to be more critical. I have no problem with an announcer doling out criticism or praise--but when it gets one sided then it's hard to stomach.

Lord Ash
01-17-2008, 09:39 AM
I think many of you are WAY overreacting.

Jay might praise other teams, but he praises Duke as well when we do something well. And on a solid 75 percent of the foul calls I agreed with him.

I can't help but feel like a lot of posters are simply off-base with their comments re: Bilas.

DukeFencer
01-17-2008, 09:48 AM
I also heard that Scheyer's coming off the bench? But that it's not because he doesn't deserve to start? I'm not sure on the details, give me a few more games and I'm sure I'll get it right (!)

CMS2478
01-17-2008, 09:52 AM
On your back with your legs in the air is no way to play "skilled defense." It isn't defense.

I understand people love college basketball, but there is an epidemic in the game of defenders flopping around left and right. Sliding in at the last second under a man that has made a move and falling onto your back requires no skill. That isn't defense. Using angles, positioning and leaping ability to block, and alter shots while avoiding body contact is defense. I don't remember seeing old films of Bill Russell falling onto his rear end to stop a driving player. If you drove at him, he would wait on you to commit, go straight up in the air and alter or block the shot withouth crashing into you.

I don't remember Scottie Pippen, or Gary Payton considered by many the best perimeter defenders in history flopping around. They locked guys down by moving their feet, holding the position firmly, and using long long arms and leaping ability to alter shooting angles and take away passing lanes, forcing guys into a more difficult shots and more dangerous passes. You played defense by moving quicker than the other guy and holding the position, keeping your hands off the guy and creating the illusion nothing is availabe; it isn't done by falling onto your tuckus.

Maybe it is just the way I was raised to appreciate basketball. But falling over was never part of defense the way I was taught, the game is vertical on your feet or in the air, never horizontal on your back.

Taking a charge does require skill......You a) have to be well-coached to be in good defensive position to be able to take one. b) be able to react and move into a help, defensive position. and c) be quick enough to move into legal, established position.

This is why Coach K deserves a lot of credit for teaching good team defense. Are there people who flop......SURE. But when a team plays perfect team defense and the help is standing there ready to take a charge for a teammate who has been blown by........THAT IS GREAT DEFENSE AND GREAT BASKETBALL. As a middle school coach, I for one understand the difficulty of teaching team defense, playing help side, and the art of taking a charge. Just my humble opinion. :)

gadzooks
01-17-2008, 10:03 AM
I also heard that Scheyer's coming off the bench? But that it's not because he doesn't deserve to start? I'm not sure on the details, give me a few more games and I'm sure I'll get it right (!)If Bilas said one more time that FSU was dribbling the leather off the ball, I was going to lose my mind.

That's what's been getting to me lately, and it's not just Bilas, the unbelievable repetitiveness. Scheyer is the greatest sixth man. Paulus played football in HS. Nelson and King are from California, Scheyer is from Illinois, Singler is from Oregon. Blah blah blah. It's not that these things aren't worth ever mentioning, it's that we hear the same things over and over every game. If I drank, I'd make up an ESPN drinking game.

toughbuff1
01-17-2008, 10:11 AM
Jay - I know that is is probably the play-by-play guy's responsibility, but since Mike Patrick refuses to ever tell us which player that committed a foul, would you mind doing it once in awhile, or at least let us know when someone gets into foul trouble?

TillyGalore
01-17-2008, 10:21 AM
If I drank, I'd make up an ESPN drinking game.

There are a bunch of us who would come play that game!

Indoor66
01-17-2008, 10:22 AM
I can't stomach Bilas anymore. I'm so glad I listened to Bob Harris instead. I know the Bilas apologists on this board are going to scream, but ... the truth hurts.

1. Score 14-13 Duke. Bilas comments on how Reid is the difference in this game - says it twice and Patrick parrots it. What difference? So Reid is negative one? At least explain what difference you are talking about.

2. Missed Henderson dunk. No excuse.

3. Under the basket - if it's a charge its a charge - there is no dotted line in college like in the NBA.

4. Since when did he do this grunt-type thing with his voice like Rafftery? He sounds like he's trying to be hard. Ridiculous.

5. Jay uses "Great!" for everything! Jay - very few things are great.

6. Jay - where is the objectivity? How about every looseball out of bounds going to FSU regardless if it went off of an FSU player. No mention of that, but you mention every perceived slight that could benefit the devils.

Jay is morphing into a Vitale and Rafftery mix. Truly pathetic.

Sam

I agree Sam. Bilas trys to over-intellectualize a simple game. The TV Directors try to get too cute. Show us the wide view and reserve the tight shots for meaningful incidents you happen to catch.

Spret42
01-17-2008, 10:24 AM
I am in agreement with you on most of that. Teaching team defense is fine. Learning helpside defense and proper team positioning is fine. Moving quickly and getting into a legal and established position is fine.

The question is, what do you do when you get there? Falling down isn't defense and it isn't skillful. Skill is the ability to play the angles, to challenge and alter the shot of the driving player, to force him to into a trapped position with the ball without making body contact and not hacking him when goes to the rim. Skill is being able to force him to commit and leaave the ground, skill is then getting vertical and defending it without fouling.

Duke plays wonderful team defense as far as proper positioning. I love watching Duke players position themselves and communicate. It is after that they sometimes lose me. Because they don't finish playing defense, they fall over. There is too much of it in college basketball and in my opinion when it is egregious, and the offensive player goes hard to the basket and has a clear lane, only to have a player slide in and fall over, the refs should swallow their whistle, look down at the defender and shrug. :cool:

It is just the way I was taught and just my opinion. ;)

arnie
01-17-2008, 10:38 AM
I really enjoy the Fox Sports announcers much more than the crew at ESPN. They don't seem to have an agenda - Gminski, Brad Daugherty (although he's no longer doing the games) and the others seem to have a very honest perspective. The production may not be as eloquent, but the announcing seems forthright. I'm afraid Bilas is enjoying the ESPN Koolaid to much.

CMS2478
01-17-2008, 10:49 AM
I am in agreement with you on most of that. Teaching team defense is fine. Learning helpside defense and proper team positioning is fine. Moving quickly and getting into a legal and established position is fine.

The question is, what do you do when you get there? Falling down isn't defense and it isn't skillful. Skill is the ability to play the angles, to challenge and alter the shot of the driving player, to force him to into a trapped position with the ball without making body contact and not hacking him when goes to the rim. Skill is being able to force him to commit and leaave the ground, skill is then getting vertical and defending it without fouling.

Duke plays wonderful team defense as far as proper positioning. I love watching Duke players position themselves and communicate. It is after that they sometimes lose me. Because they don't finish playing defense, they fall over. There is too much of it in college basketball and in my opinion when it is egregious, and the offensive player goes hard to the basket and has a clear lane, only to have a player slide in and fall over, the refs should swallow their whistle, look down at the defender and shrug. :cool:

It is just the way I was taught and just my opinion. ;)

They do finish playing defense.........they don't fall over, they take a charge. As I said earlier, are their flops sometimes....YES....But the majority of time it is a guy coming right down the middle of the lane for a lay-up and why try blocking a shot (which if you are facing the offensive player head-to-head a foul is very likely) when you can take a charge. Why is it poor basketball to establish position (especially if you are a smaller player and can't block/alter the shot) and absorb a hit for your team and create a turnover. If it is something illegal about it then it is poor basketball. A charge is perfectly legal. It is like the same argument that "all Shaq can do is dunk and it's cheap" Well is dunking illegal? Doesn't he get 2 points for doing it? If the other team can't stop, then why not? If the opposing team is not smart enough to stop penetrating too far into the lane instead of pulling up for a jumper, then why stop taking the charge? It's not Duke that needs to change its the offensive player that does. Everytime a Duke player gets called for a charge I don't yell at my TV "Oh, that wasn't a charge, that's cheap, that ain't basketball, etc.".........No, I yell "Insert duke player's name here - DON'T RUN RIGHT INTO HIM, YOU SAW HIM STANDING THERE PULL UP FOR A JUMPER!!!" I am assuming you are not a Duke fan and you just don't like it bc your team does not take charges very well. If you are a Duke fan and just don't like charges, then I apologize!!! But you are entitled to your opinion and I guess we just disagree.

feldspar
01-17-2008, 10:54 AM
I am in agreement with you on most of that. Teaching team defense is fine. Learning helpside defense and proper team positioning is fine. Moving quickly and getting into a legal and established position is fine.

The question is, what do you do when you get there? Falling down isn't defense and it isn't skillful. Skill is the ability to play the angles, to challenge and alter the shot of the driving player, to force him to into a trapped position with the ball without making body contact and not hacking him when goes to the rim. Skill is being able to force him to commit and leaave the ground, skill is then getting vertical and defending it without fouling.

Duke plays wonderful team defense as far as proper positioning. I love watching Duke players position themselves and communicate. It is after that they sometimes lose me. Because they don't finish playing defense, they fall over. There is too much of it in college basketball and in my opinion when it is egregious, and the offensive player goes hard to the basket and has a clear lane, only to have a player slide in and fall over, the refs should swallow their whistle, look down at the defender and shrug. :cool:

It is just the way I was taught and just my opinion. ;)

I agree, and the problem is that players don't recognize that when you fake a charge, all you are doing is giving an advantage to your opponent. 9 times out of 10 the ref is going to be able to tell if it's a flop or a legitimate charge, so it's better to stand your ground and play defense even if the contact is not enough to throw you to the floor.

johnb
01-17-2008, 11:11 AM
I think the Bilas criticisms are overdone. He's smart, generally very attentive, thoughtful, and sounds pretty unibiased to me. I don't need guys on tv to be Duke enthusiasts; I can handle that role myself.

devilirium
01-17-2008, 11:25 AM
^ Agreed. He's all of those things at times. He wasn't last nite, though. His analysis, in fact, was moronic at times. ESPN may want to go back to not having him call Duke games. It's too tempting, but then again this is ESPN's way of being "edgy".

BlueDevilJay
01-17-2008, 11:28 AM
Speaking of Jay and the commentating, did either of the commentators point out the fact that there was a technical foul called on Reid, followed by NO FREE THROWS??? Since when did you not shoot a free throw from a technical foul?? Was there a double tech called or something? I still can't figure that one out.

Devil in the Blue Dress
01-17-2008, 11:32 AM
I think the Bilas criticisms are overdone. He's smart, generally very attentive, thoughtful, and sounds pretty unibiased to me. I don't need guys on tv to be Duke enthusiasts; I can handle that role myself.

I agree! I'm happy we won in Tallahassee and no one got injured..... by another player or the crowd. I'm focusing my energy on getting ready for Clemson!

Matches
01-17-2008, 11:42 AM
Speaking of Jay and the commentating, did either of the commentators point out the fact that there was a technical foul called on Reid, followed by NO FREE THROWS??? Since when did you not shoot a free throw from a technical foul?? Was there a double tech called or something? I still can't figure that one out.

It was a double tech on Reid and Paulus.

Devil in the Blue Dress
01-17-2008, 11:55 AM
As you read the comments on this thread, particularly the negative ones, compare them to the comments on the thread about the FSU fan near the ESPN mike.... not a good place for a commentator to be seated!

watzone
01-17-2008, 12:07 PM
I have a foot on both sides of the ladder on this one and I am watching, waiting for someone to convince me how to come down;) Overall, I think he is fair, but I do feel there are times when he is a bit over the top on criticism towards Duke. I think the climate of anti-Duke sentiment makes it stand out more than it normally would. Besides, he seemed to bristle at me the last time he charted the waters. Seriously, I doubt K, JD, and Alarie would hold him in such high esteem if they didn't feel his comments or style were okay. But I have heard some close to Duke be a little concerned, but they seem to shake it off quickly and maybe that's what we should do. It does seem to come up a lot though ...

Devil in the Blue Dress
01-17-2008, 12:23 PM
I have a foot on both sides of the ladder on this one and I am watching, waiting for someone to convince me how to come down;) Overall, I think he is fair, but I do feel there are times when he is a bit over the top on criticism towards Duke. I think the climate of anti-Duke sentiment makes it stand out more than it normally would. Besides, he seemed to bristle at me the last time he charted the waters. Seriously, I doubt K, JD, and Alarie would hold him in such high esteem if they didn't feel his comments or style were okay. But I have heard some close to Duke be a little concerned, but they seem to shake it off quickly and maybe that's what we should do. It does seem to come up a lot though ...
Being uncomfortable with "dead air," air with no human voice talking, seems to plague those on the air, Jay included. When he's not having his best night, I remind myself of the very fine letter he wrote back in June when he said so eloquently and thoroughly what many of alums were thinking and feeling.

The next game is now day after tomorrow. I'm ready to think about preparing for Clemson.

redick4pres
01-17-2008, 12:24 PM
I don't think Jay's comments were that bad. I do believe he goes a little overboard trying not to sound like a Dukie. However, he is just trying to be professional and I think we are wrong is we critisize him for that. He is one of the best analyists in the college game now so let's give him his props instead of tearing him down!

CathyCA
01-17-2008, 12:45 PM
I'm so glad that the biggest item of contention over last night's game was Jay's calling of the game. If that's what our fan base is going to complain about on the morning after the game, then our team must be good.

Enjoy it! We won last night. Celebrate!

ugadevil
01-17-2008, 12:53 PM
Last night, Bilas started to remind me of Bill Walton the way he was talking about play of Jason Rich. "How did he do that!?!?!" & "When I grow up, I want to be Rich!!!!!!!" (He was probably waiting all night to get that line in.) It seems like because he was named as the temporary fill-in for Vitale's position, he's doing everything he can to be as enthusiastic as Vitale, which just seemed awkward.

dcarp23
01-17-2008, 01:19 PM
Personally, I couldn't care less which player he hypes, how excited he gets, or if he treats Duke "fairly." His job is to analyze the game, which I think he does very well. He breaks down plays and offers insights that a number of analysts do not.

My only beef is that in EVERY close game I have heard him broadcast this year, at the five minute mark, he has said, "This game is going to come down to toughness. Whichever team wants this game more is going to win."

From my perspective that is a) lazy and b) incorrect. Jimmy Dykes went into the same crazed rant at the end of the Tech game last night, talking about how 10% of being a championship team is having "IT," apparently some characteristic that defines a champion.

Which team played tougher and had "IT" in the two games last night? Was it Duke? Was it FSU? Was it Carolina? Was it Tech? If Peacock's shot had fallen for Tech and Singler's three had missed, would Duke and Carolina be less tough and not have "IT?" Who the hell knows? And does it matter?

Perhaps Duke won the game by being tougher last night, but I'd be willing to bet that being smarter, being better shooters and better defenders probably had just as much to do with the win than being "tougher." I think statements like those that Jay continues to make are appropriate for coaches in the huddle at the end of games, but as his job is to explain the nuances of the game, I feel that he gets a little carried away and a little lazy in those situations.

OZ
01-17-2008, 02:03 PM
Since reading DBR I have read a stream of criticisms about Packer, Patrick, Vitale, Elmore, any t.v. coverage (ESPN, ESPN2, CBS, ABC, NBC, BBC) and now Bilas. So, since no one seems to be able to please us, I guess our best option is to just wait and read the papers...no, we can't do that either, we don't care for any of the reporters.

And somehow, Bilas being "aloof" as an 22 year old is supposed to be relevant to his ability to be a sports announcer... To quote President Clinton, "Give me a break."

dukepsy1963
01-17-2008, 02:16 PM
I can't think of a single game where announcers determined the outcome of a game! Maybe somebody does, but I've searched my own failing memory and can't come up with a single instance.

Talk is talk. Turn the sound off and play a recording of the crazies! Or, failing that, get a sound effects record of cheering and play that over and over! Or, only watch games with a large number of Dukies....their cheers and boos would drown out the announcer and color person! It really, really works!

As for me.....
I love my Dukies and I frankly don't give a damn what the announcers say. Life is too short and I've created enough worries in my life...:)
If they bug me, I turn them off!

DevilCastDownfromDurham
01-17-2008, 02:16 PM
Speaking only for myself, there are a fairly large number of announcers I enjoy. Raftery, Spanarkel, G-Man, and even Majerus (though he's fun to tease). My all-time favorite was actually Brad Dougherty, who we've lost to NASCAR. And Jay is usually one of my favorites as well. He's in a uniquely tough position re: Duke and I'm just not a fan of how he responds to that situation. Most pro announcers are good as well (the Ernie, Kenny, Sir Charles lineup is AWESOME).

Unfortunately, college basketball, and especially Duke, is stuck with some cruddy ones (Vitale, Patrick) and we seem to get paired with a few (Elmore, Packer) that have a specific, historically-based animus against us. I assume this is to draw in/feed the anti-Duke folks who watch our games. :mad:

ghost
01-17-2008, 02:19 PM
I generally like Jay's commentary, but last night wasn't one of his better games. The comments on the under the basket thing WERE pretty bad.

This is a comment both on the commentators and the editors: There wasn't a single mention of Henderson's dunk on the missed free throw, or a replay of it from a different angle. I HATE that under the basket camera on free throws. It really doesn't show me anything good about the shooter, and if he misses, I miss ALL the action that ensues. Do a closeup of the shooter's face before the shot, then switch to the long view during the shot! If you aren't going to comment on what Henderson did to get there or show a replay, just use the regular camera so I can see it myself! That drives me crazy. I've missed TONS of plays like that the last couple seasons thanks to the "closer" camera views, especially on fast breaks. On fast breaks, you can't see the play develop AT ALL, and if the shot is missed, you're totally in the dark. I say, use the long camera angle and if there's something cool in the closeup, show it in a replay.

Finally, did Paulus ever get to shoot a free throw for the technical when he got punched? They were so busy analyzing the play that I missed that entirely.

Also, on my TiVo, watching it multiple times, it seemed to me from the long camera zoomed in from the other baseline that it was NOT Reid's punch that did the most damage. It seemed like the first player that went for the ball smacked Paulus right in the nose and mouth pretty hard, resulting in Paulus' initial kick, THEN Reid hit him in the side of the head. Did anybody else see that? The commentator's didn't comment on that either. It seemed like his lip was swollen afterward and he was using a towel on it a lot, NOT on the side and back of his head. Thoughts?

-Joe

I agree with the assessment on the "punch". #3 (who was on the right of the opposite baseline shot) smacked P in the nose in mouth in an "attempt" to pull the ball away. It was that hit that caused most of the damage. Reid's hit looks worse, because from the birds-eye view, you can tell he went in there swinging.

I believe they called technicals on both paulus and reid, resulting in no free throws

ugadevil
01-17-2008, 02:30 PM
Most pro announcers are good as well (the Ernie, Kenny, Sir Charles lineup is AWESOME).



I also love Ernie, Kenny, and Charles. I say Majerus was turrible. Just turrible.

greybeard
01-17-2008, 02:36 PM
Speaking only for myself, there are a fairly large number of announcers I enjoy. Raftery, Spanarkel, G-Man, and even Majerus (though he's fun to tease). My all-time favorite was actually Brad Dougherty, who we've lost to NASCAR. And Jay is usually one of my favorites as well. He's in a uniquely tough position re: Duke and I'm just not a fan of how he responds to that situation. Most pro announcers are good as well (the Ernie, Kenny, Sir Charles lineup is AWESOME).

Unfortunately, college basketball, and especially Duke, is stuck with some cruddy ones (Vitale, Patrick) and we seem to get paired with a few (Elmore, Packer) that have a specific, historically-based animus against us. I assume this is to draw in/feed the anti-Duke folks who watch our games. :mad:

I like Lennie. Think he's real smart and enjoy his insights. that said, he has no business doing college basketball games. None. He is an agent. This is a blatant conflict of interest, only there is no code of ethics concerning talking heads. It's almost an oxymoron. Against Len's deaf ear, Jay's going over-the-top to avoid any arguable appearance of bias is refreshing.

Wonder what Lennie does when he is covering a game in which a player who he'd like to represent is playing?

Come on, Lennie, in the words of Sabastian, it's time to "pick up on one and leave the other behind. It's not often easy and not often kind. . . . There's so many changes and tears you must hide." Even if there are no rules to be broken, you really do "have to finally decide."

DevilCastDownfromDurham
01-17-2008, 02:56 PM
Quote:
"I say Majerus was turrible. Just turrible."


For me Rick "calves" Majerus is what Dickie V was 30 years ago (before he went senile) and Walton was 5 years ago (before he really got his act together): a clown that is both knowledgeable and hilarious. I've never heard any bias from him, he knows the rules and the strategy, and is simply off the chart on the (I think un-) intentional comedy scale. What a gem. :)

77devil
01-17-2008, 03:14 PM
Since reading DBR I have read a stream of criticisms about Packer, Patrick, Vitale, Elmore, any t.v. coverage (ESPN, ESPN2, CBS, ABC, NBC, BBC) and now Bilas. So, since no one seems to be able to please us, I guess our best option is to just wait and read the papers...no, we can't do that either, we don't care for any of the reporters.


G-man is great. He's articulate, insightful, has good cadence, and interjects the right amount of information into the commentary; and its mostly about the game unlike most of the others.

tux
01-17-2008, 03:20 PM
To me, what seems to be going on here is a reaction by ESPN to all the Duke haters out there. They know the Duke fans are going to tune in and watch, but they like to give a nod and a wink to all those folks pulling for Duke to lose and who are convinced that Duke benefits from a lot of the calls. How many times during any Duke game does Patrick say some variation of:

"Coach {insert opposing coach} sure is mad about that call... and I can't say I blame him."
"The fans are angry about that call... and I can see their point."

I'm not sure I've ever heard him say the above when referring to K or the fans in Cameron. Last night, almost every close block/charge call was accepted as a solid call if it went to FSU and questioned if it went in favor of Duke; if not 100%, it was close. And this pattern repeats itself almost every game when Patrick is calling the game. Elmore was no problem questioning every call that goes Duke's way. (I almost respect him more for not being afraid to lay it out there --- he hates Duke, we all know that... in that sense, he's the best guy put out there for a Duke game, from ESPN's perspective.) Jay is more subtle, but you can tell he feels much more comfortable when he's moving things in that direction. I guess I can't really blame him; I think he's making the same calculation ESPN makes: better to keep the multitude at bay (throw them a bone or two, or twenty) than worry about the small group of Duke fans who'll probably support you regardless. But just b/c I can't blame him doesn't mean it's not annoying...

In general, I think too many announcers are commenting too much on the refereeing; fine, explain to us how the game is being called, tell us what the rules are after an unusual call, tell us that a coach is up and reacting to something. But quit trying to be the 4th and 5th ref from the sideline...

rthomas
01-17-2008, 03:21 PM
What's with Bilas saying "He's dribbling the leather off the ball." Not once, but twice - two times too many.

Classof06
01-17-2008, 03:34 PM
I like Bilas a lot because he always tells it like he sees it. I used to think that he overcompensated to be partial when it came to Duke, but I don't really as much anymore. The bottom line is that people like Bilas, who never hesitate to tell it like they see it, are always going to rub someone the wrong way.

Now, I watched the game in a bar last night so I didn't hear the commentators. But after hearing all these Bilas comments, I wish I would've watched it at home, haha...

greybeard
01-17-2008, 03:44 PM
During recent talking-heads show he does, there have been times when Bilas began talking and I found myself having to look up at the screen (nobody watches the screen during those things, right) because I am sure he has morphed into Raftery. Inflections, breathing pattern, the entire nine yards. It's as if Billy Crystal took over his body. What's up with that?

loran16
01-17-2008, 03:48 PM
Deadspin
« || next »

Duke Blue Devils
Greg Paulus Flops Like A Champion


If you needed any more proof that Duke will always, always be Duke, here's the egregious flops from Duke's Greg Paulus during last night's Duke-Florida State game.

The best part is not that the referees keep falling for Paulus' "my god, look what these horrible opponents keep doing to me!" act; it's that good ole Jay Bilas is there to have his school's back to the very end. Admit it: It's nice having Duke really good again, isn't it? It's always more fun to hate someone that's good.


Source=http://deadspin.com/345968/greg-paulus-flops-like-a-champion

Truthfully i agree with this thread's opinions, but its amazing to see what duke-haters (Which deadspin seems to do way too often of late) take out of commentators like Bilas.

Maybe this is why he always trys to favor the other team, because idiots like these make these comments as well?

Devil in the Blue Dress
01-17-2008, 03:59 PM
In general, I think too many announcers are commenting too much on the refereeing; fine, explain to us how the game is being called, tell us what the rules are after an unusual call, tell us that a coach is up and reacting to something. But quit trying to be the 4th and 5th ref from the sideline...

Second guessing the officials without any explanation linked to the official rules seems to be pandering to a growing audience who appear to believe that winning games revolves around the officials' actions, not how the players executed. An unfortunate choice for adding color to any game!

rsvman
01-17-2008, 04:16 PM
...Coach K obviously puts a lot of effort into teaching the players how to take the charge. From my perspective I'd say it's an important part of his defensive philosophy. You can dislike it all you want, but it's not going to go away.

Also, as CMS already mentioned, it's not a flop everytime somebody falls to the floor. Sometimes the offensive player actually knocks the defender over.

As for Bilas's announcing, I agree with many others that last night he hit a new low in his anti-Duke commentary. One example was on the charge taken by Nolan Smith; Bilas argued that it should have been called a block because Smith hadn't established defensive position in time. But the reason the referee called it a charge was because the offensive player ducked his shoulder and rammed into Smith. When the offensive player chooses to initiate contact, the foul can be called against the offensive player. On the replay the deliberate contact was obvious; it was like a halfback trying to pick up a first down on third and one. Rather than arguing that taking the charge is not skilled defense, I would argue that lowering the shoulder and plowing into people is not skilled offense.

feldspar
01-17-2008, 04:29 PM
...Coach K obviously puts a lot of effort into teaching the players how to take the charge. From my perspective I'd say it's an important part of his defensive philosophy. You can dislike it all you want, but it's not going to go away.

Also, as CMS already mentioned, it's not a flop everytime somebody falls to the floor. Sometimes the offensive player actually knocks the defender over.

As for Bilas's announcing, I agree with many others that last night he hit a new low in his anti-Duke commentary. One example was on the charge taken by Nolan Smith; Bilas argued that it should have been called a block because Smith hadn't established defensive position in time. But the reason the referee called it a charge was because the offensive player ducked his shoulder and rammed into Smith. When the offensive player chooses to initiate contact, the foul can be called against the offensive player. On the replay the deliberate contact was obvious; it was like a halfback trying to pick up a first down on third and one. Rather than arguing that taking the charge is not skilled defense, I would argue that lowering the shoulder and plowing into people is not skilled offense.

This is a good point, although I don't remember seeing that during that particular play. Not saying it didn't happen, just saying I didn't notice it. If what you're describing is accurate, though, it was the right call.

I won't go so far, though, as to say Bilas' opinion on that exact play is an example of his anti-Duke bias. He just probably saw the play differently. Plus, like 99.999% of announcers, he doesn't know the rules, but he sure as heckfire thinks he does.

_Gary
01-17-2008, 05:02 PM
Interesting. Last night as I watched the game both my daughter and I picked up, once again, on Jay's unconscious bias. And I want to make it clear I do believe this is an unconscious thing with him, but it's real nonetheless. He definitely is bending over backwards to keep the "homer" tag off himself when he calls a Duke game or just discusses the Blue Devils on ESPN. Having noticed this last night I thought about coming to the boards and starting a thread on this subject, but decided not too because I didn't want to take any grief. Lo and behold, I read the forum today and there's 4 pages on the subject. At least I know now it's not just me and my daughter that are seeing this.

I think the thing that gets me most is that, whether it's just dumb luck or not, every time Jay thinks there's been a bad or controversial call, it seems to always be one where Duke got the benefit. And Jay consequently spends a few seconds or more telling us how bad the call was. But he never seems to comment, at least not with any vigor, a controversial call that goes against Duke. It's very strange and at the end of the night it seems like his comments, if placed on a balance, would favor the other team. It was almost, but not quite, like watching a Tallahassee hometown broadcast of the game. The action was, more often than not, called from an FSU vantage point.

One example of this happened early in the game. Just a little before the call where Jay went ballistic on the Nolan charge, a Duke player (seems like it was either DeMarcus or Gerald) had been called for a charge and it seemed to me to be a bad call. But not a word was said about it. Not one word. Yet the Smith call, and others, were mentioned by Jay as being bad calls that went against FSU. Either I have to believe the myth that Duke really does get all the close calls, or I have to believe that Jay focuses more on the calls that go against Duke's opponents because he subconsciously is concerned with not coming across as a homer. Everything I've seen tells me the latter is the case. And consequently, while Jay may earn some brownie points with ESPN or anti-Duke fans, he's actually contributing to the myth about Duke getting all the calls (even though I don't believe he wants to do that). And that's the only reason his subtly biased game calls bother me. It just perpetuates the myth that keeps feeding the Duke hate.

I wish he'd seriously consider what we are saying, because I know I'm not making this stuff up in my head. It's not horrible or over the top, but it is there. No doubt about it.


Gary

Spret42
01-17-2008, 05:14 PM
...Coach K obviously puts a lot of effort into teaching the players how to take the charge. From my perspective I'd say it's an important part of his defensive philosophy. You can dislike it all you want, but it's not going to go away.

Also, as CMS already mentioned, it's not a flop everytime somebody falls to the floor. Sometimes the offensive player actually knocks the defender over.

As for Bilas's announcing, I agree with many others that last night he hit a new low in his anti-Duke commentary. One example was on the charge taken by Nolan Smith; Bilas argued that it should have been called a block because Smith hadn't established defensive position in time. But the reason the referee called it a charge was because the offensive player ducked his shoulder and rammed into Smith. When the offensive player chooses to initiate contact, the foul can be called against the offensive player. On the replay the deliberate contact was obvious; it was like a halfback trying to pick up a first down on third and one. Rather than arguing that taking the charge is not skilled defense, I would argue that lowering the shoulder and plowing into people is not skilled offense.


Please don't misunderstand me to say that the charge has no place in basketball. And I understand Coach Krzyzewski teaches it as a tactic. I do think that lately, across the board in college basketball, not just with Duke, that referees are calling charges on plays where the defender wasn't in position and the offensive player wasn't initiating contact. You chose a good example of a legitimate charge, and I understand with Duke fans, every charge Duke takes will be a good one. I just think it is overcalled.

As a hoops fan, I do think it is a weak, soft way to play defense. But that is just my opinion, probably formed by how I was taught basketball.

Clipsfan
01-17-2008, 05:24 PM
This is a good point, although I don't remember seeing that during that particular play. Not saying it didn't happen, just saying I didn't notice it. If what you're describing is accurate, though, it was the right call.

I won't go so far, though, as to say Bilas' opinion on that exact play is an example of his anti-Duke bias. He just probably saw the play differently. Plus, like 99.999% of announcers, he doesn't know the rules, but he sure as heckfire thinks he does.

I'd think that he has a fairly good understanding of the rules, given that he lived and breathed/played basketball for so long and is quite cerebral.

Lotus000
01-17-2008, 05:50 PM
I think Bilas does a great job of calling games, but I will say I have to agree with the sentiment of the thread.

I was watching the game with a friend last night, and at one point, threw my hands up and said, "GAH, I love Jay, but why the flip does he have to be so unbiased ALLLL the time!"

I realize that he's trained himself to be amazingly neutral, and that his legal practice, I'm sure, has a big impact on how he views the world--I know my J.D. does the same for me--but c'mon, pal, get excited for Duke every once in a while.

When I watch Len Elmore, he gets excited for Maryland once in a while, same for Packer and Wake, at times, though I wouldn't call him a 'homer.' Heck, Brad Daugherty was excited for UNC all the time, but he was also excited for Duke...I LOVED having him call games, and I wish he'd ditch the NASCAR/Truck series gig and come back home.

Richard Berg
01-17-2008, 05:58 PM
Someone said that if you listen to the game in 5.1 or better, and mute the center, L, and R channels, the surround speakers will just play ambient noise from the stadium.

However, I tried this with my receiver, and couldn't figure out how to mute the front 3 channels w/o yanking out wires.

Another option is to listen to the radio broadcast. If you can get the radio synched with the video, it is a thing of beauty.
You don't have to yank the L & R channels, just the center. Totally worth it.

Bryan
01-17-2008, 06:05 PM
Bilas is clearly one of the best college basketball announcers on ESPN. He's good both at the games and in the studio. I think he does make a conscious effort to avoid rooting for Duke in their games. Wouldn't you? If you're trying to be a top-flight national announcer you have to come across as credible in all the games you do. He balances that pretty well, even though Hubert Davis probably tells him otherwise.

If Jay could be cloned and do all the ESPN NCAA games the quality of announcing would go up a lot.

Bryan

buddy
01-17-2008, 06:06 PM
is all I ask of announcers. Last night Patrick and Bilas failed their audience on Henderson's dunk of the missed foul, and on the (lack of an) explanation of the double technical. I remember one other instance in the second half where they failed to say which played committed a foul (at a time when more than one player had 3, so it could really be important to know who committed the foul). I find this a chronic failing of ESPN especially, where the announcers seem more concerned with the sound of their own voice than with the game. Henderson's play looked like it might really have been spectacular, but we'll never know from ESPN's coverage.

Chard
01-17-2008, 06:12 PM
Interesting. Last night as I watched the game both my daughter and I picked up, once again, on Jay's unconscious bias. And I want to make it clear I do believe this is an unconscious thing with him, but it's real nonetheless. He definitely is bending over backwards to keep the "homer" tag off himself when he calls a Duke game or just discusses the Blue Devils on ESPN. Having noticed this last night I thought about coming to the boards and starting a thread on this subject, but decided not too because I didn't want to take any grief. Lo and behold, I read the forum today and there's 4 pages on the subject. At least I know now it's not just me and my daughter that are seeing this.

I think the thing that gets me most is that, whether it's just dumb luck or not, every time Jay thinks there's been a bad or controversial call, it seems to always be one where Duke got the benefit. And Jay consequently spends a few seconds or more telling us how bad the call was. But he never seems to comment, at least not with any vigor, a controversial call that goes against Duke. It's very strange and at the end of the night it seems like his comments, if placed on a balance, would favor the other team. It was almost, but not quite, like watching a Tallahassee hometown broadcast of the game. The action was, more often than not, called from an FSU vantage point.

One example of this happened early in the game. Just a little before the call where Jay went ballistic on the Nolan charge, a Duke player (seems like it was either DeMarcus or Gerald) had been called for a charge and it seemed to me to be a bad call. But not a word was said about it. Not one word. Yet the Smith call, and others, were mentioned by Jay as being bad calls that went against FSU. Either I have to believe the myth that Duke really does get all the close calls, or I have to believe that Jay focuses more on the calls that go against Duke's opponents because he subconsciously is concerned with not coming across as a homer. Everything I've seen tells me the latter is the case. And consequently, while Jay may earn some brownie points with ESPN or anti-Duke fans, he's actually contributing to the myth about Duke getting all the calls (even though I don't believe he wants to do that). And that's the only reason his subtly biased game calls bother me. It just perpetuates the myth that keeps feeding the Duke hate.

I wish he'd seriously consider what we are saying, because I know I'm not making this stuff up in my head. It's not horrible or over the top, but it is there. No doubt about it.


Gary

Well said. How dare you.

uncwdevil
01-17-2008, 06:19 PM
Interesting. Last night as I watched the game both my daughter and I picked up, once again, on Jay's unconscious bias. And I want to make it clear I do believe this is an unconscious thing with him, but it's real nonetheless. He definitely is bending over backwards to keep the "homer" tag off himself when he calls a Duke game or just discusses the Blue Devils on ESPN. Having noticed this last night I thought about coming to the boards and starting a thread on this subject, but decided not too because I didn't want to take any grief. Lo and behold, I read the forum today and there's 4 pages on the subject. At least I know now it's not just me and my daughter that are seeing this.

I think the thing that gets me most is that, whether it's just dumb luck or not, every time Jay thinks there's been a bad or controversial call, it seems to always be one where Duke got the benefit. And Jay consequently spends a few seconds or more telling us how bad the call was. But he never seems to comment, at least not with any vigor, a controversial call that goes against Duke. It's very strange and at the end of the night it seems like his comments, if placed on a balance, would favor the other team. It was almost, but not quite, like watching a Tallahassee hometown broadcast of the game. The action was, more often than not, called from an FSU vantage point.

One example of this happened early in the game. Just a little before the call where Jay went ballistic on the Nolan charge, a Duke player (seems like it was either DeMarcus or Gerald) had been called for a charge and it seemed to me to be a bad call. But not a word was said about it. Not one word. Yet the Smith call, and others, were mentioned by Jay as being bad calls that went against FSU. Either I have to believe the myth that Duke really does get all the close calls, or I have to believe that Jay focuses more on the calls that go against Duke's opponents because he subconsciously is concerned with not coming across as a homer. Everything I've seen tells me the latter is the case. And consequently, while Jay may earn some brownie points with ESPN or anti-Duke fans, he's actually contributing to the myth about Duke getting all the calls (even though I don't believe he wants to do that). And that's the only reason his subtly biased game calls bother me. It just perpetuates the myth that keeps feeding the Duke hate.

I wish he'd seriously consider what we are saying, because I know I'm not making this stuff up in my head. It's not horrible or over the top, but it is there. No doubt about it.


Gary


Gary, you said it perfectly. That is exactly how I feel. He doesn't do it on purpose, but he does it. You either have to believe that or that the refs really do favor Duke most of the time.

feldspar
01-17-2008, 06:56 PM
I'd think that he has a fairly good understanding of the rules, given that he lived and breathed/played basketball for so long and is quite cerebral.

He has probably a better understanding of the rules than 90% of the commentators out there, but he said some blatantly false things during last night's game, so I'm not really inclined to give him a pass in the context of this discussion.

dukie8
01-17-2008, 07:18 PM
i've never understood why the networks pay a lot of money for game announcers. it's not like a single person ever tunes into a game because of the announcers or doesn't watch a game because of the announcers.

doctorhook
01-17-2008, 07:38 PM
This subject has been discussed repeatedly with some so defensive of Bilas that they question the loyalties of fellow Duke posters. I have agreed with the sentiment of this thread, and I am glad to see I am not alone. I have challenged those who disagree to take this challenge: During the game, count the number of positive Duke/positive FSU comments by Jay. Well, last night, I did that. Jay's positive FSU/positive Duke ratio was 2:1 in favor of FSU in both halves of the game. I even gave him the benefit of the doubt on a few calls. Patrick had a Duke bias by a lesser margin. It made me wonder if the announcers are asked before a game to critique one team more than the other? Maybe Jay is asked to critique, comment on the Duke opponent more than the fellow announcer ( Patrick in this case ). This would allow Jay to appear to be not biased towards Duke. My theory about this is pure speculation, and I think Jay is a great announcer, critic of the game. This theory would merely explain the nature of his comments. Doc

feldspar
01-17-2008, 07:43 PM
I have challenged those who disagree to take this challenge: During the game, count the number of positive Duke/positive FSU comments by Jay. Well, last night, I did that. Jay's positive FSU/positive Duke ratio was 2:1 in favor of FSU in both halves of the game.

What was the total count for and against Duke?

doctorhook
01-17-2008, 07:55 PM
In the first half, it was 18 positive FSU, 9 positive Duke ( 6/7 about Jon ), 3 negative FSU, six negative Duke. In the second half, it was 14 positive FSU, 7 positive Duke, 5 negative FSU, 8 negative Duke. Doc

zingit
01-17-2008, 08:02 PM
I think everyone needs to calm down a bit and remember all the positive things that Jay says about Duke. He was practically drooling over Scheyer in the first half, and just in general, he says a lot of great things about Duke.

What's more, sometimes he has even defended Duke from criticism. I remember last year when everyone was hating on Paulus, and several of the pundits were talking about him, and it comes to Jay, and my friend turns to me and says, "Oh, here we go. He's always hard on us." Then Jay said something along the lines of, "You know what? I think Paulus will be just fine. He's just going through a rough patch now." Hmm, not so harsh after all. And after there was all the controversy over the ending to the Clemson game last year, Jay gave a perfectly unbiased account of it and countered the Duke-haters' version of events that the refs/timekeeper "gave" us the game. Finally, I can't find the article in his blog's archives, but I seem to remember him defending McRoberts and saying he is better than people gave him credit for.

You can go ahead and pick his commentary apart, but remember that in general he is very admiring of Duke and even stands up for us under criticism, and is probably just calling it like he sees it most of the time.

dukie8
01-17-2008, 08:12 PM
I think everyone needs to calm down a bit and remember all the positive things that Jay says about Duke. He was practically drooling over Scheyer in the first half, and just in general, he says a lot of great things about Duke.

what announcer wouldn't have been drooling over scheyer? he basically had the entire team on his back.


What's more, sometimes he has even defended Duke from criticism. I remember last year when everyone was hating on Paulus, and several of the pundits were talking about him, and it comes to Jay, and my friend turns to me and says, "Oh, here we go. He's always hard on us." Then Jay said something along the lines of, "You know what? I think Paulus will be just fine. He's just going through a rough patch now." Hmm, not so harsh after all.

when was the last time you heard an announcer say someone sucks or is horrible? there's an unwritten rule that you shouldn't be slamming an 18-22 year old kid on national tv.

OZ
01-17-2008, 08:13 PM
In the first half, it was 18 positive FSU, 9 positive Duke ( 6/7 about Jon ), 3 negative FSU, six negative Duke. In the second half, it was 14 positive FSU, 7 positive Duke, 5 negative FSU, 8 negative Duke. Doc


In the second half, he must have said all "7 positive Duke" in the last three minutes.

_Gary
01-17-2008, 08:19 PM
Bilas is clearly one of the best college basketball announcers on ESPN. He's good both at the games and in the studio. I think he does make a conscious effort to avoid rooting for Duke in their games. Wouldn't you?

Ah, but here's the rub. It's not a matter of us wanting Jay to root for Duke. I want him to be neutral. What I'm saying, is that in his desire to be neutral he actually ends up being a tad non-neutral in what he does and does not emphasize during games. So it's not a matter of wanting Jay to actually root for Duke on the air. I'd never want that. I just don't want him to feed the hate-Duke group because he's unconsciously emphasizing bad calls going against Duke's opponents but not giving equal time to bad calls that go against Duke. And that's a big part of what I'm hearing from him this year. It's not balanced announcing in my mind.

Gary

zingit
01-17-2008, 08:21 PM
what announcer wouldn't have been drooling over scheyer? he basically had the entire team on his back.

Sure, but the point still stands. You all talk about him like he's holding back pro-Duke comments for fear of being called a homer, and I'm saying that both last night and in general, Jay says a lot of very positive things about us. And not just Scheyer, but also G, Singler, and so on. You can't just zero in on his negative comments and then ignore all his positive ones. I'll admit I didn't go back and revisit the tape and count all the pro-Duke and anti-Duke comments like the poster before me did, but the general feeling I got from Jay was that he is very enthusiastic about Duke.


when was the last time you heard an announcer say someone sucks or is horrible? there's an unwritten rule that you shouldn't be slamming an 18-22 year old kid on national tv.

No one on the air was saying "Paulus sucks," but the tone was definitely pretty negative, and Jay was the most positive among the bunch.

doctorhook
01-17-2008, 08:27 PM
Billo,

Play the tape and count for yourself. I am sure we might disagree on a few positve/neutral/negatives, but the bias seems to be present. When this subject arises, many seem to think the critics do not like Jay or want hime to be a Duke cheerleader. That is simply not true. Jay is great, and extremely knowledgeable, that is not the point. I just want him to critique/call the game evenly. Doc

dukie8
01-17-2008, 08:31 PM
Sure, but the point still stands. You all talk about him like he's holding back pro-Duke comments for fear of being called a homer, and I'm saying that both last night and in general, Jay says a lot of very positive things about us. And not just Scheyer, but also G, Singler, and so on. You can't just zero in on his negative comments and then ignore all his positive ones. I'll admit I didn't go back and revisit the tape and count all the pro-Duke and anti-Duke comments like the poster before me did, but the general feeling I got from Jay was that he is very enthusiastic about Duke.

No one on the air was saying "Paulus sucks," but the tone was definitely pretty negative, and Jay was the most positive among the bunch.

i don't understand how pointing out that bilas was complementary of scheyer, when every announcer, including packer, would have done the exact same thing, shows that he doesn't go out of his way not to look like a homer. nobody ever said that he never praises duke or that he badmouths duke but it is so blatantly obvious that he goes out of his way to talk up the other team and avoid any possibility of looking like a duke homer.

was it surprising that announcers were down on paulus last year given how he played most of the season? the fact that bilas gave some cliche remark about how he will be fine doesn't mean much to me and doesn't have any bearing on all of the other comments he makes.

i actually would prefer some of the announcers to give some real analysis every once in awhile rather than cheerleading the whole time. if dickie v did a nccu game, you would think that you were watching a bunch of AAs playing based on how much he would talk them up.

du_bb1
01-17-2008, 08:32 PM
it is really kind of amazing how much wasted energy and hot air is wasted on cutting JB. He is Duke thru and thru--someone may not agree with him but some of these comments are waaaaaayyy overboard--get a life--if you don't want to listen---turn him off!!!!

devilirium
01-17-2008, 09:26 PM
Hot air and wasted effort? You're just saying that because it's a hot topic. Right now the hot button topics include Bilas and the fallout from the Erik Murphy recruitment. I think the amount of attention shows that Duke fans are a prideful bunch. Like I stated before, I'm not about heaping praise or criticism on Duke. The pendulum has swung the other way from ESPN's post game studio dorks to Bilas. We'll move on soon enough, but it will be revisited again when Jay "I wanna be Rich !!!!" Bilas does another game again. Christ, when he said that, I wanted to jam pencils in my ears !!!!!!

Ben63
01-17-2008, 11:32 PM
Jay is wonderful analyst on the halftime and pre-game show but his anouncing is utterly pathetic.

dukemomLA
01-18-2008, 01:16 AM
Jay Bilas is wonderful (as stated) in halftime and aftergame analysis. They need to put him back in the studio, and get him off the game-announcing job.

And if I have to hear another word out of the mouth of Mike Patrick...well, I just might have to kill myself. Can't SOMEONE send this guy to the Virgin Islands for a long rest....or into retirement early??

Gman and Raferty are a delight for me. Steve Lavin (...sigh...don't get me started) needs to accompany M. Patrick to wherever). There are SO many guys and gals who deserve/warrant/should have these jobs. How can we convince the stations to get rid of some of these losers?

I have also taken to watching games with the sound off -- and with close-captioning. But, as stated, I truly miss the crowd noise and chants. I used to watch the Mets games (when I lived in NYC), and the Dodger games here with the sound off -- with the radio on. (depending on who was announcing which).

In L.A. that is not an option for me with Duke games. Too bad.

devilirium
01-18-2008, 12:10 PM
dukemom,

I agree though I like Lavin in the studio. His studio observations are astute and he's pretty humorous. DeMarcus being on the G.I. Bill, and calling that guy from UNC Asheville "Chief" from "One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest"..I nearly lost it when he said that.

I think doing color is just a tough job. Bilas isn't cut out for it--he's already trying to borrow stuff from other announcers. His style sounds forced and synthetic. It's all about finding your voice, and Bilas has gotten away from that with his commentating.

Jumbo
01-19-2008, 10:53 AM
The show: College Gameday, this morning
The topic: "How Good is Duke?"
Bilas' comment: "I think Duke is really good. Now, they're a different kind of team than they've had. A lot depends on how they shoot it, but I really like this team. I think they defend very well and I think Clemson will try to throw the ball inside. The question is will they be able to see inside? You know, will they have vision to be able to deliver the ball? And Kyle Singler, I think is not only one of the best freshmen, I think he's one of the most complete players in the country. I think Duke is going to have a lot say about who wins the ACC. And they took a huge step forward against Florida State. They didn't play well in that game, but still had the chops to win it in the last three minutes. That was a great win for Duke."

Chew on that next time you're attacking him.

loran16
01-19-2008, 11:02 AM
Its like i said in the other bilas thread, look at places like Deadspin. Generally a good source of sports info, but the posters have horrible anti-duke biases.

And somehow they came up with a Jay Bilas is biased TOWARDS duke from the FSU game.

I think we might be getting a LITTLE bit hard on him, though when he comes to campus this year, I hope his son comes with him. (2 years ago he brought his son (like 7 years old), wearing a duke jersey to college gameday, and we lifted him above our heads and cheered, "LITTLE BILAS---HE CHOSE DUKE!" Absolutely awesome).

watzone
01-19-2008, 11:37 AM
The show: College Gameday, this morning
The topic: "How Good is Duke?"
Bilas' comment: "I think Duke is really good. Now, they're a different kind of team than they've had. A lot depends on how they shoot it, but I really like this team. I think they defend very well and I think Clemson will try to throw the ball inside. The question is will they be able to see inside? You know, will they have vision to be able to deliver the ball? And Kyle Singler, I think is not only one of the best freshmen, I think he's one of the most complete players in the country. I think Duke is going to have a lot say about who wins the ACC. And they took a huge step forward against Florida State. They didn't play well in that game, but still had the chops to win it in the last three minutes. That was a great win for Duke."

Chew on that next time you're attacking him.

He ranks Duke 5th in the country, while Davis has them 11th. That's as high as anyone on ESPN's pael of 12.

DukePA
01-19-2008, 11:43 AM
Its like i said in the other bilas thread, look at places like Deadspin. Generally a good source of sports info, but the posters have horrible anti-duke biases.

And somehow they came up with a Jay Bilas is biased TOWARDS duke from the FSU game.

I think we might be getting a LITTLE bit hard on him, though when he comes to campus this year, I hope his son comes with him. (2 years ago he brought his son (like 7 years old), wearing a duke jersey to college gameday, and we lifted him above our heads and cheered, "LITTLE BILAS---HE CHOSE DUKE!" Absolutely awesome).

One of my favorite memories of that gameday occurred during pre-game outside CIS. We were chanting "ugly shirt" because Bilas was wearing a light blue shirt. During the next break he grinned, unzipped his son's jacket, then pointed to the Duke shirt the kid was wearing.

OZZIE4DUKE
01-19-2008, 11:47 AM
In today's N&O, J P Giglio has some less than complimentary things to say about Bilas and Greg Paulus.
http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/story/890589.html


GREG PAULUS

The junior has fulfilled J.J. Redick's prophecy in becoming the next most-hated Duke player by Duke-haters. Paulus embellished a forearm and a phantom punch from Florida State's Ryan Reid in Wednesday's road win better than Jackie Chan. He also weaseled in a kick to FSU's Isaiah Swann in the late-game scrum.


THIS WEEK IN ACC TV

The Worldwide Leader made a smart move subbing an erudite like Jay Bilas, whose knowledge almost outweighs his Duke bias

Giglio is now on my Doyle list - writers to ignore.

patentgeek
01-19-2008, 11:59 AM
Ozzie: Thanks for posting that link - I saw it in this morning's N&O and started to seethe. He was also critical of Jimmy Dykes for referring to Hanstravel as "Ty" rather than "Tyler." I found it rather unbalanced that he had no apparent concern for Paulus getting his face smacked around but great concern that Tyler's full name be used. What a moron.

NovaScotian
01-19-2008, 12:04 PM
In today's N&O, J P Giglio has some less than complimentary things to say about Bilas and Greg Paulus.
http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/story/890589.html





Giglio is now on my Doyle list - writers to ignore.

what exactly about that paulus quote was that wrong

killerleft
01-19-2008, 12:12 PM
What was wrong with that quote? Swann gave Paulus a bloody mouth with the forearm, and Paulus' kick was aimed at the guy who cheap-shotted him. That Reid didn't connect as well as he intended was fortunate. What whas right with that quote?

OZZIE4DUKE
01-19-2008, 12:15 PM
what exactly about that paulus quote was that wrong

I don't think Paulus embellished anything. I think he got smacked during the play (nothing intentional), kicked his leg to get someone off of him (he shouldn't have), and then may or may not have been punched by Reid. But Paulus was mostly on the receiving end of whatever happened.

SMO
01-19-2008, 12:16 PM
The show: College Gameday, this morning
The topic: "How Good is Duke?"
Bilas' comment: "I think Duke is really good. Now, they're a different kind of team than they've had. A lot depends on how they shoot it, but I really like this team. I think they defend very well and I think Clemson will try to throw the ball inside. The question is will they be able to see inside? You know, will they have vision to be able to deliver the ball? And Kyle Singler, I think is not only one of the best freshmen, I think he's one of the most complete players in the country. I think Duke is going to have a lot say about who wins the ACC. And they took a huge step forward against Florida State. They didn't play well in that game, but still had the chops to win it in the last three minutes. That was a great win for Duke."

Chew on that next time you're attacking him.

I read something similar in the Weekly Watch and I think Jay is in a tough position anytime he calls a Duke game. He goes out of his way to not show favoritism during the game and ends up sounding anti-Duke. I wish he'd feel comfortable calling it as he sees it during games and not just during other analyses. He usually does a very good job in non-Duke games.

SeattleIrish
01-19-2008, 12:49 PM
what exactly about that paulus quote was that wrong

Just so we're all on the same page - at the end of that "scrum", Greg came up with a bloody mouth. Are those that say he was faking also saying he was using fake blood?

s.i.

dukelifer
01-19-2008, 12:53 PM
I read something similar in the Weekly Watch and I think Jay is in a tough position anytime he calls a Duke game. He goes out of his way to not show favoritism during the game and ends up sounding anti-Duke. I wish he'd feel comfortable calling it as he sees it during games and not just during other analyses. He usually does a very good job in non-Duke games.

Jay is taking over for Vitale who, as we all know, is considered to be the biggest Duke supporter in the free world. Jay is clearly trying to be objective and is in a tough position when calling Duke games. I think Jay does a pretty good job of staying in the game and explaining what is happening. I see him trying to stay as objective as he can. His view of Duke is pretty much similar to mine- Duke is good not great (yet) and vulnerable when their shooters are missing wide open shots- which has happened the few games on the road. They also will have issues against teams with talented big men. Regardess, their D will usually keep them in games. Singler and Scheyer both have super high bball IQs and in the end Duke will win a lot of games this year if they play smart and within themselves, continue to hustle and pressure on D and make their free throws in the clutch. If you listen to Jay- I don't think he is saying anything different than that. What else could he really say about Duke that is not being said?

devildeac
01-19-2008, 02:06 PM
what exactly about that paulus quote was that wrong

What was right about it? At the risk of getting another thread closed, I will chime in here, too. Watch the replay-several times. Shortly before that, reid grabbed/pushed GP's forearm AFTER a whistle and knocked him to the floor. GP's teammates had to step in to intervene at that point. Another poster here deemed it cheap/rough and or dirty but then, unbelievably, thought it was a proper no-call(WTF). If the refs had warned or T'ed up reid for that $hit, the next scrum may not have happened. As has been belabored already, swann(I think) caught GP with a forearm/elbow and bloodied his mouth/face while he is on the floor. Is GP not allowed to defend himself? Then reid comes from several feet away, after the freakin' whistle and takes a swipe at Greg. Contact or no contact, it is an attempt to strike an opponent and should have been a T(which it was), and, by acc officials definition(see Henderson, G), a flagrant foul AND fighting, and worthy of a suspension. OZZIE's right, giglio is a jerk and actually has been for several years. Duke-hating in print-I don't know how a publication can condone that garbage. Oh, wait a minute, it's the n&o, what a surprise.

Fish80
01-19-2008, 02:09 PM
The show: College Gameday, this morning
The topic: "How Good is Duke?"
Bilas' comment: "I think Duke is really good. Now, they're a different kind of team than they've had. A lot depends on how they shoot it, but I really like this team. I think they defend very well and I think Clemson will try to throw the ball inside. The question is will they be able to see inside? You know, will they have vision to be able to deliver the ball? And Kyle Singler, I think is not only one of the best freshmen, I think he's one of the most complete players in the country. I think Duke is going to have a lot say about who wins the ACC. And they took a huge step forward against Florida State. They didn't play well in that game, but still had the chops to win it in the last three minutes. That was a great win for Duke."

Chew on that next time you're attacking him.

Thanks for posting this, Jumbo. A lot of us are too critical of Bilas. He's a great guy, tries very hard to be fair, and let's not forget how he stepped up in support when it was very unpopular to do so.

Ben63
01-19-2008, 02:22 PM
I don't bash Bilas until he is behind the mic calling the game. He is one of the top studio analysts on ESPN, any sport. But he runs into problems calling the games, not when he is on the pre-game or halftime show.

Devil in the Blue Dress
01-19-2008, 02:32 PM
I don't bash Bilas until he is behind the mic calling the game. He is one of the top studio analysts on ESPN, any sport. But he runs into problems calling the games, not when he is on the pre-game or halftime show.

Does this mean that you think Jay should have declined to fill in while Dick Vitale is out?

Ben63
01-19-2008, 02:36 PM
Does this mean that you think Jay should have declined to fill in while Dick Vitale is out?

Absolutely.

ArtVandelay
01-19-2008, 03:00 PM
I firmly believe that we need another thread analyzing the Paulus scrum frame-by-frame like the Zapruder film. See his head move back, and to the left.

At the end of the day, Duke haters are always going to say that he didn't get punched and faked the whole thing. It's really hard not to see the thing through either Duke or anti-Duke colored glasses.

FWIW, the same may apply to Bilas. Duke fans seem to think he's too critical of Duke b/c he feels a need to try to stay ahead of the objectivity curve. Carolina fans/Duke haters think he's a Duke shill. Such is the nature of the beast. Personally, I like his analysis, although he does seem to latch on to the catch phrases at times (see, e.g., his draft analysis - "bouncy," "upside," etc). I also think he's a little stiff. Which is why I like the Bilas/Rafferty combo - I think they balance each other out well. For some reason, i just enjoy listening to Rafferty call a game.

Indoor66
01-19-2008, 03:20 PM
I don't bash Bilas until he is behind the mic calling the game. He is one of the top studio analysts on ESPN, any sport. But he runs into problems calling the games, not when he is on the pre-game or halftime show.

You state my position well. I like him in the studio but not in a game situation. He is too stiff and comes across, IMO, too aloof.

tbyers11
01-19-2008, 03:27 PM
You state my position well. I like him in the studio but not in a game situation. He is too stiff and comes across, IMO, too aloof.

Wow, I completely disagree with this take on Jay's in-game announcing. I think the best announcing team that ESPN has is the trio of Sean McDonough, Bill Rafferty, and Jay Bilas. They make watching Big East games on Monday nights almost bearable.

To each his own I guess.

Lotus000
01-19-2008, 06:05 PM
OK, I just saw the college Game-Day ad where Jay and Digger are little heads growing out of a guy's body while he's on a date.

Jay says "Tell her about how Carolina dominates the boards" or something to that effect.

It's official: Jay's a UNC homer now.

Chard
01-20-2008, 10:57 AM
OK, I just saw the college Game-Day ad where Jay and Digger are little heads growing out of a guy's body while he's on a date.

Jay says "Tell her about how Carolina dominates the boards" or something to that effect.

It's official: Jay's a UNC homer now.

I just saw that spot. Ug.

dukie8
02-09-2008, 08:00 PM
well bilas gave us some love today by saying that we were the most impressive team today. he singled out singler saying that he is one of the toughest match-ups in the country. this was on the heels of hubert calling vandy the most impressive team today after it won at the buzzer against lowly south carolina. could he be any more useless?

loran16
02-09-2008, 08:32 PM
OK, I just saw the college Game-Day ad where Jay and Digger are little heads growing out of a guy's body while he's on a date.

Jay says "Tell her about how Carolina dominates the boards" or something to that effect.

It's official: Jay's a UNC homer now.

To Jay's defense, those spots were almost certainly filmed either before the season began or early on. Thus mentions of Indiana's young talent, UNC dominating the boards, Kansas playing fast and loose, etc.

Also, agreed on Hubert and Vandy. seriously.

Pacer
06-11-2008, 07:48 AM
If so, or if not, vote at the link below:

http://deadspin.com/5014981/media-approval-ratings-jay-bilas#poll_=EzN5QTM

BCGroup
06-11-2008, 02:36 PM
As a bonus, click on over to this link and vote against Gregg Doyel

http://deadspin.com/5013856/media-approval-ratings-gregg-doyel#poll_=ETN5QTM

weezie
06-11-2008, 09:51 PM
Let's hear it for the internets and another goofy poll.
Bilas is a true Dukie, he neither cares for the butt-kissing of others, nor does he kiss. He had the courage to call out Brodhead over the lax catastrophe and for that he deserves some serious recognition.
ESPN knows that have an intelligent commentator in Bilas whether he toes the Duke line or not....and besides, he rode that surfboard in his wingtips and suit at the unc game all---the---way---down---the---court.

Duvall
06-11-2008, 10:30 PM
Where do we go to vote against the malicious douchebags of Deadspin.com?

dukemomLA
06-12-2008, 01:45 AM
Took both links and voted. So cool to see approval rating for JayB. and the disapproval of Gregg D -- (can't finish his last name 'cause I'm sure I'd get censored...again). Again, thanks for the links and hope that tons of DBR folk will let their voices be heard.

Edouble
06-12-2008, 09:44 AM
Jay Bilas is awful. He acts like he's reporting real news on World News Tonight. He comes across as very tight-assed and dull. He also goes out of his way to not say anything good about Duke. We're generally ranked in the top 5 or at least the top 10, but the number of complimentary things he says about Duke compared to the other top 10 teams is laughable. Sometimes it's like Duke doesn't even exist on his college hoops radar.

Classof06
06-12-2008, 10:09 AM
While I can see how he'd rub some people the wrong way, I like Jay Bilas. His analysis is spot on and he's tells it like it is, something that is become harder to find with ESPN personalities.

As far as Duke goes, last season Bilas definitely had his reservations about Duke throughout the regular season. Many Duke fans, including myself, were up in arms about how we felt Bilas didn't give us enough credit. The problem was that all the reasons Bilas had for his skepticism towards Duke came to light in March, so it's hard to say he wasn't right.

brevity
06-13-2008, 12:49 AM
I don't know if this has been said before -- or enough -- but Jay Bilas represents a possibly small but still worthy subset of Duke fans. We don't necessarily buy the gear or advertise our fandom; we just follow the game and quietly root for what matters. We get excited when Duke wins, and upset when Duke loses, but try our best not to embarrass ourselves or our team in either event. When we talk basketball to others who are not Duke fans, they are surprised that we can carry a conversation without steering it back to Duke every few seconds.

Oh, and we're still at the point where we can be pleasantly surprised if Duke overachieves because we set realistic (or intentionally low) expectations for them in the first place. Makes us less angry; helps us live longer.

Jay Bilas is a professional in the college basketball business that happens to have ties to Duke. Somewhat ironically, you can imagine more former players like him in the commentator world if they weren't so successful in the pros.

(As a side note, I have no problem with Mr. Bilas being dismissed as "Duke boy" because I know he can take it.)

SilkyJ
06-26-2008, 08:23 PM
When asked by Wilbon if Jon Paxson should be "run off" if he doesn't select Derrick Rose, Bilas responds:

"first off all, jon has suffered a penance -he had to play for digger phelps- so he's suffered a kind of hell we can't even imagine."

he never even cracked a smile

Loved it.

Gunnar Kaufman
06-26-2008, 09:02 PM
When asked by Wilbon if Jon Paxson should be "run off" if he doesn't select Derrick Rose, Bilas responds:

"first off all, jon has suffered a penance -he had to play for digger phelps- so he's suffered a kind of hell we can't even imagine."

he never even cracked a smile

Loved it.

Outstanding.

weezie
06-26-2008, 09:12 PM
Bilas, a Dukie, through and through. :cool:

CameronCrazy'11
06-26-2008, 09:13 PM
Anyone want to explain the backstory to an ignoramus like me?

Son of Mojo
06-26-2008, 09:23 PM
A) Paxson had to play for Phelps........and Phelps sucks (he's still bitter at Duke for losing to us in '78)
B) Bilas works regularly with Phelps so he took a tongue-in-cheek shot at his broadcasting partner.

Glad to hear Bilas say something like that (storm took out the dish while PTI was on today) since the comments I've heard him give in the last 5 years have had me really question if his status as an on-air personality means more than his roots.

Edouble
06-27-2008, 02:23 AM
Glad to hear Bilas say something like that (storm took out the dish while PTI was on today) since the comments I've heard him give in the last 5 years have had me really question if his status as an on-air personality means more than his roots.

Can't say I dug the Carolina blue tie he wore for the draft tonight.

Highlander
06-27-2008, 08:10 AM
When asked by Wilbon if Jon Paxson should be "run off" if he doesn't select Derrick Rose, Bilas responds:

"first off all, jon has suffered a penance -he had to play for digger phelps- so he's suffered a kind of hell we can't even imagine."

he never even cracked a smile

Loved it.

Classic Bilas humor. Jay calls in to Charlotte sports radio during bball season fairly regularly, and he is as dry and sarcastic as they come.

Does anybody else remember if Jay was recruited by Digger at ND? From "Game of my life," I recall that a number of guys Duke landed in the 80's were near misses by ND.