Kelly vs Wall Round II

[watzone]

Just before the Devils took a whooping, Wall led his team to a huge win to split the season series. Walls handlers would not allow recruiting questions after the game, which was standing room only. A lot of media turned uot for the event and I didn't feel guilty to have missed the first half odf the Duke game;) Needless to say, I never watched the first half which was on my DVR. Wall tallied 28 and Kelly 29. Wall had a lot of showboating dunks. A few pics and a game story -
http://bluedevilnation.net/?p=1734

[Diddy]

Thanks for the update. What are your feelings regarding Wall. Memphis has made real inroads, and if they get Cousins then Memphis gets reall attractive, real quick, for Wall.

Obviously, we have a need for him at the PG, LG, whatever. What are your feelings regarding his coming to Duke.

[watzone]

Thanks for the update. What are your feelings regarding Wall. Memphis has made real inroads, and if they get Cousins then Memphis gets reall attractive, real quick, for Wall.

Obviously, we have a need for him at the PG, LG, whatever. What are your feelings regarding his coming to Duke.

I think the next week will be telling.

[jacalcio18]

What will be happening in the next week??

[grossbus]

"In fact, the guard play of the Ravens was their doing in due to rushed and poor shot selection."

hey wat, you meant to say "undoing" right? just helpin' out. :)

good stuff, thanks.

[SilkyJ]

What will be happening in the next week??

Wat's article indicates that Wall will be trimming his list pretty soon.

Thanks for the article Wat!

Without giving up any milk money, do we have any other back-up plans or regular plans for next year's class at either guard spot?

[watzone]

Wat's article indicates that Wall will be trimming his list pretty soon.

Thanks for the article Wat!

Without giving up any milk money, do we have any other back-up plans or regular plans for next year's class at either guard spot?


There are backup plans in place for next season at both positions next season.

[watzone]

Okay. I'll drop a new name to watch, one which my members have known about for quite a while now. Kyrie Irving. Haven't seen much about Duke's interest on him yet on the corperates, but he's on the radar. I'll let yall have fun researching him.

[Devilsfan]

Wall is a difference maker imo and kelly is a good player that needs to live in the weight room until next Fall. I don't think Kelly is ready to handle a Booker right now.

[ChicagoCrazy84]

Have they offered Wall yet? I know Coach K does not offer scholarships lightly, but they have been on Wall for a good 3 months now. If he hasn't yet, he needs to do that.

Also, I have asked this before, how is Memphis all of a sudden so popular to top recruits? It's a little annoying. Does Calipari just throw schollys out like it's out of style? They already have 4 recruits coming in next year, but still are in the running for Latavious Williams, John Wall, and DeMarucs Cousins. How can this be? Derrick Rose goes there for a year and all of a sudden, "Hey! Memphis! Yeah, I want to go there."

[crimsonandblue]

Have they offered Wall yet? I know Coach K does not offer scholarships lightly, but they have been on Wall for a good 3 months now. If he hasn't yet, he needs to do that.

Also, I have asked this before, how is Memphis all of a sudden so popular to top recruits? It's a little annoying. Does Calipari just throw schollys out like it's out of style? They already have 4 recruits coming in next year, but still are in the running for Latavious Williams, John Wall, and DeMarucs Cousins. How can this be? Derrick Rose goes there for a year and all of a sudden, "Hey! Memphis! Yeah, I want to go there."

Well, some of it's allegedly WWW. Worldwide Wes. Some of it's a little UNLV Rebel-like attitude that Calipari brings. Some of it's the facilities (both practice, play and living). Some of it may not be completely clean. Who knows.

[grossbus]

he also may be anticipating considerable turnover ???

[-bdbd]

Okay. I'll drop a new name to watch, one which my members have known about for quite a while now. Kyrie Irving. Haven't seen much about Duke's interest on him yet on the corperates, but he's on the radar. I'll let yall have fun researching him.

OK Watzone, I'll bite...

Kyrie Irving listed at 6-1 and 165 from Elizabeth, NJ. Scout lists him as their #8 PG in the class of 2010. He apparently came on pretty strong last summer. His father clearly involved in the process (not saying that in a bad way). He says he is wide-open on schools, and the list appears still long. Notre Dame was one of several big names on the list. Interestingly, as Wat alludes, Duke wasn't on the list for him.

What strikes me as interesting is that, ranking wise, he doesn't sound significantly better than Tyler Thorton from DC, already on board in that same class. Time will tell.

BTW, haven't heard much recently about Knight from FL. Is the perception that we've maybe slipped a little on his list? Clearly he'd be a terrific fit, as would young Mr. Wall.

-BDBD :confused:

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

OK Watzone, I'll bite...

Kyrie Irving listed at 6-1 and 165 from Elizabeth, NJ. Scout lists him as their #8 PG in the class of 2010. He apparently came on pretty strong last summer. His father clearly involved in the process (not saying that in a bad way). He says he is wide-open on schools, and the list appears still long. Notre Dame was one of several big names on the list. Interestingly, as Wat alludes, Duke wasn't on the list for him.

What strikes me as interesting is that, ranking wise, he doesn't sound significantly better than Tyler Thorton from DC, already on board in that same class. Time will tell.

BTW, haven't heard much recently about Knight from FL. Is the perception that we've maybe slipped a little on his list? Clearly he'd be a terrific fit, as would young Mr. Wall.

-BDBD :confused:

There was talk a while back that Knight and Boynton were interested in going to the same school. That may be incorrect (i.e a bad rumor) but I think a lot of fans stopped looking at Knight when Boynton snubbed us so publicly (and when Wall showed up on our radar).

Speaking of Wall, this doesn't sound good to me at all. Irving may be a great pick-up but he doesn't look like anything close to a game-changer and we'd still be left high-and-dry for next season. Sigh. This pattern is getting pretty familiar.

[SupaDave]

Wall is a difference maker imo and kelly is a good player that needs to live in the weight room until next Fall. I don't think Kelly is ready to handle a Booker right now.

Why would he be? He's a senior in high school. Booker has a LOT on him...

[Brian12215]

Here is a little nugget on Irving.

http://www.zagsblog.com/2009/02/05/kyrie-irving-the-best-jersey-guard-ever-st-pats-st-bens-notes/#more-11334

[ddsdevil]

From article:


“After this season, I’m going to narrow it down to a Top 10,” Irving said. “After AAU, I’m going to narrow it down to a Top 5 and I’m going to take those visits.”

Looks like his recruiting process is going to be long.

[watzone]

FWIW, Knight is still very much on the radar. Wall has both his AAU and HS coach around right now. Those of you with a keen understanding of that know it means they are getting closer to looking into the final stages.

[Diddy]

FWIW, Knight is still very much on the radar. Wall has both his AAU and HS coach around right now. Those of you with a keen understanding of that know it means they are getting closer to looking into the final stages.

In some of the stories I've read about Knight, his list has not included Duke of late. In most of these stories, Knight was not the focus of the article, just a blurb. Is that significant, or pointless net prattle?

[watzone]

In some of the stories I've read about Knight, his list has not included Duke of late. In most of these stories, Knight was not the focus of the article, just a blurb. Is that significant, or pointless net prattle?

A lot of folks don't research their articles well. Any prospect is apt to leave out a school when asked his list over and over again.

[Diddy]

A lot of folks don't research their articles well. Any prospect is apt to leave out a school when asked his list over and over again.

Thats pretty much what I had figured. I don't really expect us to get Knight, but I think we have good plans in place regardless.

[jacalcio18]

After watching the Clemson game, it is evident that we need to get a true point guard to run the team. We also need to recruit better offensive players. Sounds like Wall would be a perfect fit. We should offer him ASAP.

[Faison1]

After watching the Clemson game, it is evident that we need to get a true point guard to run the team. We also need to recruit better offensive players. Sounds like Wall would be a perfect fit. We should offer him ASAP.

I wonder if Wake is saying the same thing about their offense after the Miami game?

C'mon, now....it was just one game....I think your post is a little harsh and shortsighted considering the circumstances......

[Diddy]

After watching the Clemson game, it is evident that we need to get a true point guard to run the team. We also need to recruit better offensive players. Sounds like Wall would be a perfect fit. We should offer him ASAP.

I think K is doing a solid job of feeling this kid out. If he is serious about considering Duke, a scholly will be forthcoming. But K is wisely not just doling out an offer. I like Wall as a player, and as a person he seems no different than any other teenage superstar athlete. K may, and I emphasize may (imho) be worried that Wall's entourage may want to use a scholly offer from Duke to heighten the kid's profile, a la Patrick Patterson. PP has had a good career at KY, but the notoriety he got from yanking us arround has made him more of a household name than his play warrants.

Wall will be a star, no doubt, but in the current economic climate sponsors will only give money to kids with high profiles. I am not saying that Wall is or is not doing this. I am only saying that K may be wary of getting used. Wall has to know that if he wanted to come to Duke a scholly would be in the offing.

Given our staffs presence at his games (Collins "violation" was no accident, it was intentionally done to convey the depth of our interest, and self reported almost immediately which the KU coach shamelessly one-upped), and his own presence on campus, he knows there is a spot at Duke, should he want it.

But until K knows the courtship is serious, he is staying cool. Good call.

[Bob Green]

Given our staffs presence at his games (Collins "violation" was no accident, it was intentionally done to convey the depth of our interest, and self reported almost immediately which the KU coach shamelessly one-upped), and his own presence on campus, he knows there is a spot at Duke, should he want it.

How do you know the violation was intentional? I'd really like to hear your proof.

[whereinthehellami]

The Poopsheet recently had alot of praise for Kelly and Plumlee in one of their issues. Sounds like they are both working hard on their development. At this point I wouldn't be suprised if one of them slips into the starting lineup next year.

[Devilsfan]

Only if #12 leaves. And we all hope that doesn't happen. Watching both r kelly and j wall on the same court there is a world of difference even though they play different positions. kelly is way better than the other forward that commited first but wall is even better, imho.

[watzone]

How do you know the violation was intentional? I'd really like to hear your proof.

Saying Collins intentionally violated the rules is outrageous. To say it as if it were a fact is careless banter. That's a lot of speculation with some loose facts.

[SilkyJ]

Okay. I'll drop a new name to watch, one which my members have known about for quite a while now. Kyrie Irving. Haven't seen much about Duke's interest on him yet on the corperates, but he's on the radar. I'll let yall have fun researching him.

Thanks Wat! Ask and you shall receive guys :)


Have they offered Wall yet? I know Coach K does not offer scholarships lightly, but they have been on Wall for a good 3 months now. If he hasn't yet, he needs to do that.


After watching the Clemson game, it is evident that we need to get a true point guard to run the team. We also need to recruit better offensive players. Sounds like Wall would be a perfect fit. We should offer him ASAP.

Not to be nitpicky, but using the words/phrase "we should offer" or "we need to offer" is ridiculous. You don't know the kid and don't know the dynamics of whats going on around him. What if there are uncertainties regarding his grades? His attitude? Going overseas? There a million things that could keep K from having given him an offer. Fans telling Coach K what he "ought" to do is ridiculous. To quote Gary Williams, how many national titles do you have?



Also, I have asked this before, how is Memphis all of a sudden so popular to top recruits? It's a little annoying. Does Calipari just throw schollys out like it's out of style? They already have 4 recruits coming in next year, but still are in the running for Latavious Williams, John Wall, and DeMarucs Cousins. How can this be? Derrick Rose goes there for a year and all of a sudden, "Hey! Memphis! Yeah, I want to go there."

Calipari is the dirtiest coach in america that has yet to be caught. I'd include huggy bear, but at least he's gotten in trouble for something...



BTW, haven't heard much recently about Knight from FL. Is the perception that we've maybe slipped a little on his list? Clearly he'd be a terrific fit, as would young Mr. Wall.

-BDBD :confused:

Re: all the posts on Knight, its mid-basketball season for him and he's a junior. I'm sure he focusing on lots of things right now besides which school to go to. He's still got one more summer of AAU ball and recruiting visits, so "no-news" is just that, "no-news." Its not bad news.



Wall will be a star, no doubt, but in the current economic climate sponsors will only give money to kids with high profiles. I am not saying that Wall is or is not doing this. I am only saying that K may be wary of getting used. Wall has to know that if he wanted to come to Duke a scholly would be in the offing.

I am repeating someone else's comments from another thread (supadave maybe?) but Wall is the #1 recruit in the country on many boards and is basically the consensus #1 PG in the country. NBA scouts are already eyeing him for the 2010 draft. Do you really think a guy like that needs to raise his profile?

[WojoSay?]

PP has had a good career at KY, but the notoriety he got from yanking us arround has made him more of a household name than his play warrants.

Maybe in the beginning, but he is averaging 18.3pts/9.2 reb./2blocks. Yanking a program around only gets you so far. To become a household name, you have to perform on the court and I believe he has done just that.

[Devilsfan]

PP is really averaging more than our three headed monster (Z,LT,Plum) combind? It'd hard to believe. And what are the stats of the kid who wouldn't even vist and went to GU? Coach K can identify talent alright and now with Chris (Carrawell that is!) and Nate it looks like we started to land that talent (starting in 2010).

[Diddy]

Maybe in the beginning, but he is averaging 18.3pts/9.2 reb./2blocks. Yanking a program around only gets you so far. To become a household name, you have to perform on the court and I believe he has done just that.

Those are good numbers, but not great numbers. They are especially not great on a team that is churning along in a historically weak SEC. He may or may not be 1st team All SEC in a year where that doesn't mean squat.

My main point was that everybody knows his name. His name comes up in games that he doesn't even play in. That is mostly because the recruiting battle that enraptured the entire College Basketball viewing population. I am not saying that no one should know his name. Just that he has a lot more notoriety than solid numbers on an unranked team in a bad conference deserves.

As for my Collins crack, it was obviously nothing but speculation on my part.

As for my rationale for the remark:
On of two things happened:

1. One of our chief recruiters willingly committed a teensy, eensy violation of a technicality by taking his well known, NBA announcer/ex-nba HC father to a basketball tourney,

or

2. One of our chief recruiters didn't know the dates that he could show up and watch a recruit. Bascially he couldn't look at a list of blackout-dates and then transfer that knowledge to a calander. I mean, there is no way that the staff would have some sort of posted list of these dates, or that they would be automatically loaded into his phone/pda/outlook calander.

Either Chris orchastrated some machiavellian plot, in which he violates a rule which the school immediately announces (along with the name of a key recruit who happened to be playing.....

or

Collins is a complete retard. Seriously, it is probably one or the other. Do you think Chris "just made a mistake" in doing this? This was gamesmanship. Duke violated a rule whose punishment wouldn't really have an impact on the team, and in so doing expressed to a kid that he is so important that evaluating him, and being present at his games, trumps all.

When was the last time Duke "made a mistake" when evaluating a player. Don't think Wall didn't notice, or know this. Why do you think KU did us one better by "accidentily" greeting him after a game.

Wall is a game changer. Plug him into a decent team and they are Sweet 16 material. Plug him into a team with plenty of talent arround him and you are loaded for the Final Four. Stud Athlete, 6-4, pass first PGs do not grow on trees. They grow once every couple of years, if you are lucky. Duke would be OK without him. With him, Duke is a FF favorite. We got in on him late, so we have to prove we are serious.

I have no proof regarding Collins. Either he was retarded, or machiavellian. Heck, Wat's carefully worded, non-denial doesn't exactly undercut my theory.

[sivartrenrag]

I'd love to see Wall in a Duke uniform. Just imagine if we got him and Singler and Henderson stayed... with Kelly and MP2 we'd finally have depth with our big men and we'd have a real point guard. Ah, dreams.

[FireOgilvie]

Those are good numbers, but not great numbers. They are especially not great on a team that is churning along in a historically weak SEC. He may or may not be 1st team All SEC in a year where that doesn't mean squat.

My main point was that everybody knows his name. His name comes up in games that he doesn't even play in. That is mostly because the recruiting battle that enraptured the entire College Basketball viewing population. I am not saying that no one should know his name. Just that he has a lot more notoriety than solid numbers on an unranked team in a bad conference deserves.

As for my Collins crack, it was obviously nothing but speculation on my part.

As for my rationale for the remark:
On of two things happened:

1. One of our chief recruiters willingly committed a teensy, eensy violation of a technicality by taking his well known, NBA announcer/ex-nba HC father to a basketball tourney,

or

2. One of our chief recruiters didn't know the dates that he could show up and watch a recruit. Bascially he couldn't look at a list of blackout-dates and then transfer that knowledge to a calander. I mean, there is no way that the staff would have some sort of posted list of these dates, or that they would be automatically loaded into his phone/pda/outlook calander.

Either Chris orchastrated some machiavellian plot, in which he violates a rule which the school immediately announces (along with the name of a key recruit who happened to be playing.....

or

Collins is a complete retard. Seriously, it is probably one or the other. Do you think Chris "just made a mistake" in doing this? This was gamesmanship. Duke violated a rule whose punishment wouldn't really have an impact on the team, and in so doing expressed to a kid that he is so important that evaluating him, and being present at his games, trumps all.

When was the last time Duke "made a mistake" when evaluating a player. Don't think Wall didn't notice, or know this. Why do you think KU did us one better by "accidentily" greeting him after a game.

Wall is a game changer. Plug him into a decent team and they are Sweet 16 material. Plug him into a team with plenty of talent arround him and you are loaded for the Final Four. Stud Athlete, 6-4, pass first PGs do not grow on trees. They grow once every couple of years, if you are lucky. Duke would be OK without him. With him, Duke is a FF favorite. We got in on him late, so we have to prove we are serious.

I have no proof regarding Collins. Either he was retarded, or machiavellian. Heck, Wat's carefully worded, non-denial doesn't exactly undercut my theory.

1. Chris Collins is not a "retard", but I believe he did make a mistake.

2. Patrick Patterson is legit. 18 pts, 9 reb, and I think most importantly, 65 percent FG shooting. That's really impressive. Oh, and he's a SOPHOMORE.

[SilkyJ]

PP is really averaging more than our three headed monster (Z,LT,Plum) combind? It'd hard to believe.

Is it really that hard to believe? Its our weakest position and none of them can really earn a steady spot in the rotation



Coach K can identify talent alright and now with Chris (Carrawell that is!) and Nate it looks like we started to land that talent (starting in 2010).

"started to land that talent" really? who landed Elton brand, shane battier, will avery, j will, dunleavy, boozer, duhon, jj, sheld, deng, demarcus, mcroberts, nolan, gerald, and kyle?

Players come and players go. Assistants come and assistants go. One thing remains constant: Coach K.

[Faison1]

Judging by the article on Jown Wall today, I can see now what Watzone was talking about.....

Probably need to start thinking realistically about an alternative, and it doesn't look like it's coming in the class of '09......