Bob Knight interested in Georgia job? [Archive]

Stray Gator

01-31-2009, 10:40 PM

I was skeptical when I saw this article:

http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/bisher/entries/2009/01/31/bob_knight_interested_in_uga_j.html?cxntlid=homepa ge_tab_newstab

But just now, during the telecast of the UF-Tennessee game, Vitale is openly promoting the idea of Knight taking over at Georgia or Alabama. And there's no way he would do that without Knight's acquiescence. Either program would work for the trademark red sweaters...

camion

01-31-2009, 10:54 PM

Couldn't we keep Knight as a commentator and send Vitale to coach?

Please.

captmojo

02-01-2009, 06:49 AM

Couldn't we keep Knight as a commentator and send Vitale to coach?

Please.

A much better alternative.

SMO

02-01-2009, 08:38 AM

BD80

02-01-2009, 03:39 PM

Knight would do very well at Bama, the PC movement hasn't made the inroads there like it has throughout the rest of the country (Texas Tech was another good spot for him). Bama is also used to dictatorial coaches. They might not understand Coach Knight's insistence on graduating players.

The big issue is recruiting. He needs someone to go get players for him. I don't see Coach Knight hitting the trail and sucking up to 16 and 17 year-old kids.

rockymtn devil

02-01-2009, 04:49 PM

I think it would a terrible idea for any team to hire Knight without understanding that all you're getting is an instant jolt of energy to the program, and even that could be a stretch. It is not a long-term solution. You're also getting someone who requires so much of his players while refusing to hold himself to similar standards.

After the 1992 IU Final Four team, Knight's Hoosiers started a slow decline that quickly sped up. 1993 brought an Elite Eight trip and 1994, a Sweet Sixteen appearance. After that, Knight-led Hoosier teams never made it out of the first weekend of the NCAA Tournament.

At Texas Tech he had two first round NCAA exits, one Sweet 16, one NIT semifinal, and a season in which he did not make the tournament. He also left, mid-season, after a mediocre 12-8 start last year. This season Texas Tech is 1-5 in the B12 and barely over .500 overall. They are an NIT bubble team at this point.

In other words, Knight hasn't had much success in a long time. He might energize the program briefly--like he arguably did at TT, although I think that was greatly overstated--but he'll likely fail to put the program on a path to succeed in the long run. Georgia, Alabama, or any other school, would be better served finding a young, talented coach to fix their programs.

WojoSay?

02-01-2009, 05:52 PM

I actually think UGA would love to have Knight for 2-4 years. There program hasn't had that much success so maybe a jolt is what they need.

I personally would love to see Knight stick with ESPN. Thanks to Knight, it looks like more ACC officials are waiting for Hans to travel.

Edouble

02-01-2009, 06:52 PM

I actually think UGA would love to have Knight for 2-4 years. There program hasn't had that much success so maybe a jolt is what they need.

I disagree. UGA has been to the Final Four, and the teams under Harrick had NBA level talent. Georgia, Atlanta in particular, has serious high school basketball talent. If UGA were a conference contender (which wouldn't be that hard in this year's SEC) maybe they could have landed Derrick Favors. I think they need a coach for the long run, not just a jolt. There's no reason that Georgia can't be good in the long run. Florida did it.

WojoSay?

02-01-2009, 07:58 PM

I disagree. UGA has been to the Final Four, and the teams under Harrick had NBA level talent. Georgia, Atlanta in particular, has serious high school basketball talent. If UGA were a conference contender (which wouldn't be that hard in this year's SEC) maybe they could have landed Derrick Favors. I think they need a coach for the long run, not just a jolt. There's no reason that Georgia can't be good in the long run. Florida did it.

Everyone is allowed their opinion, so we will agree to disagree. Dominique Wilkins is the only NBA talent I can remember. They won the SEC in 83' and 08'. Last year they had a sub .500 record and won the conference tournament. I think recruits would come in because of Knight, and there would be a better chance for instant success. Now if they go after a young coach it is pretty much hit or miss.

throatybeard

02-01-2009, 08:00 PM

Knight would do very well at Bama, the PC movement hasn't made the inroads there like it has throughout the rest of the country

I'm going to regret this.

A couple of questions:

a) What, precisely defined, is "the PC movement."

b) What is the logical connection between the two clauses in this sentence?

Thank you.

GDT

02-01-2009, 10:38 PM

a) What, precisely defined, is "the PC movement."
b) What is the logical connection between the two clauses in this sentence?

If I remember correctly, the "PC Movement" was launched to combat the tendency of the MSM to refer to the Lisa (http://oldcomputers.net/lisa.html) Computer as a 'Lady Mac'. Although many defended this practice by pointing out the indignity of such names as the "Woman Mac," "Broad Mac," "Chili Mac" or "Macintosh," they were shouted down and either imprisoned at Guantanamo or criticized on an internet board (whichever is worse).

Perhaps Knight, who is apparently not PC and will not suck up to kids, can appoint an overseer to perform that role. And any other role.

chris13

02-01-2009, 11:37 PM

For a college basketball coach, I'm pretty sure

a) not giving a damn about recruiting
b) running off the a lot of the players you do recruit

are not politically correct anywhere.

I doubt Lubbock, Texas is overrun with political correctness and Bobby wasn't especially successful there. Bobby had an amazing run at Indiana from 1971 to about 1993 or so, but he hasn't been a top notch coach for over 15 years now.

Spoke

02-02-2009, 08:57 AM

Dominique Wilkins is the only NBA talent I can remember.

UGA has produced a number of NBA players over the past couple of decades. (http://www.basketballreference.com/players/bycollege.htm?sch=University+of+Georgia) And the state of Georgia is always loaded with high school talent. A good coach (who's also a good recruiter) could make some hay at UGA.

The biggest drawback at Georgia, to my way of thinking, is the facility. It is ancient (and not in a classic Cameron Indoor Stadium way) and that fact must be a major turn-off for recruits. Georgia is so focused on football I don't know if they will ever devote the resources necessary to bringing UGA up to contender status in basketball (though their new AD does give me some hope in this regard -- we'll see).

On the plus side, Athens is very appealing college town, which sort of recruits itself.

pamtar

02-02-2009, 10:09 AM

Everyone is allowed their opinion, so we will agree to disagree. Dominique Wilkins is the only NBA talent I can remember. They won the SEC in 83' and 08'. Last year they had a sub .500 record and won the conference tournament. I think recruits would come in because of Knight, and there would be a better chance for instant success. Now if they go after a young coach it is pretty much hit or miss.

If you are referring to Dominique as GA high school talent that went to UGA, and eventually the NBA, then I feel obliged to remind you the the human highlight reel played his high school ball right here in North Carolina.

My hometown's only claim to fame actually. He and Alvis Rogers scored us two state championships back in the 70's. The dunks he did off that linoleum floor were amazing.

BD80

02-02-2009, 11:56 AM

I'm going to regret this.

A couple of questions:

a) What, precisely defined, is "the PC movement."

b) What is the logical connection between the two clauses in this sentence?

Thank you.

By PC, I was referring to the exaltation of perceived social disadvantage over reason. The kind of mentality that had the Duke lacrosse players arrested by Nifong- and convicted in the media. It was a similar media firestorm - compounded by a hostile administration - that resulted in Knight leaving Indiana. At Bama, Knight would not have to worry as much about the admins or boosters reacting to such media pressure. That is what I meant by "do well" - he would not find as much philosophical conflict at Bama as he experienced at Indiana under Miles Brand.

I am not a Knight apologist. I find him boorish. However, Indiana hired him to lead its basketball team of student athletes, and he did so very well. He graduated his players, followed the rules, and won a lot of games. Stories of his disdain for recruiting lead me to suspect that he will not succeed at any school unless there are players in place or someone else to recruit them.

chattpanther

02-02-2009, 12:44 PM

The biggest drawback at Georgia, to my way of thinking, is the facility. It is ancient (and not in a classic Cameron Indoor Stadium way) and that fact must be a major turn-off for recruits. Georgia is so focused on football I don't know if they will ever devote the resources necessary to bringing UGA up to contender status in basketball (though their new AD does give me some hope in this regard -- we'll see).

On the plus side, Athens is very appealing college town, which sort of recruits itself.

You are right about the actually basketball arena. But UGA just completed a basketball/gymnastics facility last year. The weightroom and locker room is heads and above the football weightroom. Take a look at these pictures of the new practice facility. (http://www.georgiadogs.com/PhotoAlbum.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=8800&PALBID=7118&USE_FLASH=YES) You have to jump to picture 25 or so for the updated completed pictures of the practice facility.

Obviously a player wants a great place to play, but it definitely does not hurt to have a state of the art practice facility dedicated to just basketball.

Spoke

02-02-2009, 01:01 PM

You are right about the actually basketball arena. But UGA just completed a basketball/gymnastics facility last year. The weightroom and locker room is heads and above the football weightroom. Take a look at these pictures of the new practice facility. (http://www.georgiadogs.com/PhotoAlbum.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=8800&PALBID=7118&USE_FLASH=YES) You have to jump to picture 25 or so for the updated completed pictures of the practice facility.

Thanks for the link. That is a nice facility. Makes me feel better about the program. They still need a new stadium, though.

JasonEvans

02-02-2009, 01:05 PM

UGA has had ok success at producing NBA players, but certainly nothing special for a BCS conference school that prides itself on its strong athletic program. Georgia is a national power in football, baseball, golf, gymnastics, tennis, and a number of other programs. It finished 10th in the Director's Cup last year,

Then again, part of the Dawgs somewhat limited NBA success if that the program has not brought in enough stud recruits which is because the Dawgs have had so many so-so basketball coaches over the years.

I am of the belief that Felton was fired at least partly because he missed on Derrick Favors. The AD was waiting for Favors to make a decision. When that decision was for Ga Tech, that was the last straw that cost Felton his job.

As for who UGA gets next-- whoever it is, they need to recruit better. Georgia has tons of top-quality players in the state (anyone recall the Atlanta AAU team that featured Dwight Howard, Josh Smith, and Randolph Morris? SICK!!) and the next coach needs to make that a priority.

--Jason "Bobby Knight would be a bad long-term solution and I bet Bobby does not really want to hit the recruiting trail again" Evans

sagegrouse

02-02-2009, 01:37 PM

By PC, I was referring to the exaltation of perceived social disadvantage over reason. The kind of mentality that had the Duke lacrosse players arrested by Nifong- and convicted in the media. It was a similar media firestorm - compounded by a hostile administration - that resulted in Knight leaving Indiana.

Holy cow! You have loaded a lot of baggage on the Knight dismissal from Indiana. "Politically correct" IMHO is about language and minimizing offense not about the plethora of actions related to discrimination and reverse discrimination. Here's one take on it (from Wikipedia):

Political correctness (adjectivally, politically correct; both forms commonly abbreviated to PC) is a term applied to language, ideas, policies, or behavior seen as seeking to minimize offense to gender, racial, cultural, disabled, aged or other identity groups. Conversely, the term "politically incorrect" is used to refer to language or ideas that may cause offense or that are unconstrained by orthodoxy.

But anyway, you are entitled to your own strong views, and it sounds like we should agree not to watch election returns together.

Knight's problem at Indiana was really about bad behavior generally, not lack of PC language or behavior. Yelling at staff (FWIW, all coaches yell at players) and physical actions (throwing things, physical assaults) are unacceptable no matter the age, race or gender of the target. And, of course, unfortuantely for him, some of it was memorialized in video.

I don't think Bob Knight should become head coach at Georgia. He was rigid and inflexible when he was 45; what the heck is he going to be like at 71? OTOH, he is clearly a great, great basketball mind, and I really enjoy his commentary on ESPN with Mussberger. [Of course, being the highly suspicious type, I wonder if Mussberger was the only announcer that ESPN thought Knight could work with?]

sagegrouse

ugadevil

02-02-2009, 03:12 PM

The Athletic Department was prepared to make changes to the basketball team at the end of last season, and they had a plan that was in place and was almost certain to happen. However, they certainly didn't expect Coach Felton and the team to pull off their miraculous performance in the SEC Tournament, which changed everything. Damon Evans had a very good idea of who he wanted to hire and they were prepared to offer him the job, and it would have been a big name hire (and it was NOT Bob Knight). Now, I doubt that individual will be coming to Athens.

I'd be very surprised if the University decided to hire Bob Knight. From what I've heard, they are interested in hiring a young coach who's had some success and could likely build the program and stay for a long time.

Spoke

02-02-2009, 03:27 PM

From what I've heard, they are interested in hiring a young coach who's had some success and could likely build the program and stay for a long time.

That sounds depressingly like a description of Dennis Felton when they hired him. Hope it works out better this time.

Jeffrey

02-03-2009, 10:23 AM

sagegrouse

02-03-2009, 10:33 AM

Hi,

I think Coach Knight deserves more credit, at Texas Tech, than I see here. IMO, Texas Tech had a rather weak program when they hired Coach Knight. IIRC, Coach Knight was at Texas Tech for six complete seasons and they had five 20-win seasons and four NCAA tournament invites during his tenure. IMO, Coach Knight brought Texas Tech much more national exposure which is a long-term Texas Tech benefit.

Best regards,
Jeffrey

The state of Texas Tech men's basketball is best summarized by Knight's opening comments when introducted as the new TT head coach. IIRC he said: "I would like the men's basketball program to have the same attendance as the women's team." It was true -- the women's hoops program had higher attendance and a lot more wins than the men's program.

sagegrouse

Jeffrey

02-03-2009, 11:18 AM

I doubt Lubbock, Texas is overrun with political correctness and Bobby wasn't especially successful there. Bobby had an amazing run at Indiana from 1971 to about 1993 or so, but he hasn't been a top notch coach for over 15 years now.

Hi,

What would the most winning coach in the history of NCAA Division I men's basketball need to do for you to now consider him "a top notch coach"?

Best regards,
Jeffrey

AtlBluRew

02-03-2009, 11:50 AM

The state of Texas Tech men's basketball is best summarized by Knight's opening comments when introducted as the new TT head coach. IIRC he said: "I would like the men's basketball program to have the same attendance as the women's team." It was true -- the women's hoops program had higher attendance and a lot more wins than the men's program.

sagegrouse

The Texas Tech women's team deserved to have higher attendance. Marsha Sharp (now retired from coaching) is one of the great coaches of the game.

I agree with Jeffrey's comment -- having Knight even for 6 years elevated Texas Tech's program much higher than it would likely have gone with a younger coach. Now, the hiring of Pat Knight as his successor ... maybe the newfound prominence has been squandered.

Knight would certainly garner attention for the UGA program and could be the catalyst to renovating or replacing Stegman Colliseum. If he stayed five years ... and didn't engineer the hiring of Pat Knight or anyone named Knight as his replacement ... I think it would be a positive move by UGA.

Besides, I'd like to see how Knight and Billy Donovan co-exist on the sideline!

BD80

02-03-2009, 03:03 PM

Holy cow! You have loaded a lot of baggage on the Knight dismissal from Indiana. "Politically correct" IMHO is about language and minimizing offense not about the plethora of actions related to discrimination and reverse discrimination. ...

But anyway, you are entitled to your own strong views, and it sounds like we should agree not to watch election returns together.

Knight's problem at Indiana was really about bad behavior generally, not lack of PC language or behavior. Yelling at staff (FWIW, all coaches yell at players) and physical actions (throwing things, physical assaults) are unacceptable no matter the age, race or gender of the target. And, of course, unfortunately for him, some of it was memorialized in video.

I don't think Bob Knight should become head coach at Georgia. He was rigid and inflexible when he was 45; what the heck is he going to be like at 71? OTOH, he is clearly a great, great basketball mind, and I really enjoy his commentary on ESPN with Mussberger. [Of course, being the highly suspicious type, I wonder if Mussberger was the only announcer that ESPN thought Knight could work with?]

sagegrouse

We have differing views, but I think we could have fun arguing over a few bears.

I view PC as a movement that has overrun its usefulness and is now often used in a more nefarious manner to allow some to control the activities of others. The Lacrosse case is an extreme example; the perception of white, rich kids out of control at a prestigious university whose practices had to eliminated.

Merriam Webster defines PC as:

: conforming to a belief that language and practices which could offend political sensibilities (as in matters of sex or race) should be eliminated

Many of Knight's boorish acts occurred under the prior regime at Indiana, and went unpunished, and tacitly condoned. The "new" regime punished him as much for past acts as for what Knight did under their watch. His "practices" offended their political sensitivities and were eliminated.

Again, we agree that Knight is not suited for today's game. My point was that Knight would be less likely to offend political sensibilities at Bama than he was under Brand's regime at Indiana.

allenmurray

02-03-2009, 04:27 PM

Many of Knight's boorish acts occurred under the prior regime at Indiana, and went unpunished, and tacitly condoned. His "practices" offended their political sensitivities and were eliminated.

PC or not, throwing a vase at your 65 year old secratary (1988) should have gotten him fired long before any of that other crap - if the administration had any balls at all that would have been the end of his career. It was beyond bullying. I would hope that practice would offend anyone's political sensibilites.

Bob Green

02-03-2009, 04:32 PM

We have differing views, but I think we could have fun arguing over a few bears.

When you and sagegrouse argue over those bears be sure and bring your video camera. :D All your DBR buddies want to watch. My money is on the bears.

OldPhiKap

02-03-2009, 05:04 PM

When you and sagegrouse argue over those bears be sure and bring your video camera. :D All your DBR buddies want to watch. My money is on the bears.

My money is on Ditka.

3rd Dukie

02-03-2009, 05:10 PM

When you and sagegrouse argue over those bears be sure and bring your video camera. :D All your DBR buddies want to watch. My money is on the bears.

LOL!

BD80

02-03-2009, 06:11 PM

When you and sagegrouse argue over those bears be sure and bring your video camera. :D All your DBR buddies want to watch. My money is on the bears.

Hmmm, my spellcheck must have had two much whine.

As a Steeler fan, I'll bet against the bears.

Wheat/"/"/"

02-03-2009, 06:37 PM

Count me in on the side that thinks Bobby Knight shouldn't coach at Georiga.

He should coach somewhere in the ACC.

Wouldn't it be interesting to send Gary Williams down the road and bring Bobby in?

rockymtn devil

02-03-2009, 07:38 PM

Hi,

What would the most winning coach in the history of NCAA Division I men's basketball need to do for you to now consider him "a top notch coach"?

Best regards,
Jeffrey

Not even kind of what Chris13 said. He said that for the last 15 years, Knight has not been a top-notch coach. That is entirely different than saying that he never was, or historically isn't, a top-notch coach.

Let's look to the facts: Since going to the Sweet 16 in 1994, Bob Knight coached teams have advanced past the first weekend of the NCAA tournament once. Top-notch coaches make it out of the first weekend more often than that. Would you argue that those 15 years were "top-notch"?

Count me as someone who believes his success at TT has been greatly overstated. Yes, the Red Raiders were mediocre to bad when he took over. But, that program did play in a Sweet 16 a mere five years before Knight was hired (IIRC, they lost to UNC in the 1996 Sweet 16). It isn't like they'd suffered some long tournament drought and he led them to water. He added a marginal jolt to the program (in the form of tournament appearances and early exits) that appears to have since died out.

He abandoned him team last year after a mediocre start that included a loss to Centenary College (which has 910 students). This year, with a team that he recruited, and that is coached by his son, TT is terrible. The instant jolt he provided is gone. TT is irrelevant again. Even if Pat Knight is the worst coach ever, if Bob Knight had done anything to actually build the program, it would take more than half a season to undo such progress. The reality is that what Bob Knight "built" at TT was a house of cards that had started to crumble while he was there. Seeing it happen, he did exactly what I would expect of him. He quit.