Duke becoming a two man team

[bludvlman]

In the 05/06 season Duke was unable to win a championship with JJ and Shelden, this year it appears that Kyle and Gerald are leading the team but nobody is stepping up to help them out. Yes we have a good game here and there from others but nobody else is playing consistent. Z has good games against smaller players but anyone close to his size dominates him inside, we saw that last night against WF with him getting stuffed everytime he put the ball up. Jon's offense is gone, he may put up some points but he takes too many shots, he needs to be the third option. Lance I don't blame b/c he is a small forward attemting to play center, Smith is good but hasn't been the same Smith that dominated early in the season. Paulus is good for some Offense but can't defend. I'm not meaning to be criticial b/c I love those guys who do poor their blood, guts, and tears out but in order to become a Championship team Duke will need a third option.

[MarkD83]

I am not trying to offend bludvman, but want to point out the hypocrisy that might start in this thread.

Our complaints about last year and the previous years was that there was no "go to" guy to help Duke out in a tough game. Well against Wake we played a potential Final Four team on the road and we were down by 13 with 9:00 minutes left. We then found several "go to" guys. Despite shooting poorly all night Kyle had the guts to take and make 2 threes. You also saw G getting madder and madder at the situation and then taking matters into his own hands at the end. Finally, despite the poor shooting Duke ran a play for Jon at the end for a three and then he hustled to get the rebound.

So what do we know about Duke 09 vs previous teams. We have several "go to" guys who can lead the team in an adverse situation. So when we start to discuss that we need a third or fourth option to step up we need to look at the silver lining and see that in a close game we have several "go to" guys that we may not have had on past teams.

One other side note, despite our big men having less than stellar games Duke out rebounded Wake due to hustle and desire. Which is something that has been consistent on this team and is a good sign for the rest of the season.

Again, I apologize to bludvlman. I am not calling you out, your concern may be justified but I saw a lack of a "third option" more as a sign of several players wanting to take over the game which has been missing in recent Duke teams.

[Bob Green]

I disagree with this entire post.


In the 05/06 season Duke was unable to win a championship with JJ and Shelden, this year it appears that Kyle and Gerald are leading the team but nobody is stepping up to help them out.

Scheyer scored 13 points and McClure grabbed 12 rebounds. I'd call that help. Moreover, what does 2006 have to do with 2009? This is a different team, with a different chemistry. You need to forget about 2006 as it is history!


Jon's offense is gone, he may put up some points but he takes too many shots, he needs to be the third option.

Jon Scheyer is a complete player who contributes so much more than just points. We are lucky to have such a talented athlete on our team. Yes, he is struggling with his shot lately, but he will snap out of it and hit huge shots for us this year. Anyone who harps on Scheyer doesn't understand basketball.


Paulus is good for some Offense but can't defend.

Paulus had a key steal that he converted into two points. That is empirical data that he can defend.


I'm not meaning to be criticial b/c I love those guys who do poor their blood, guts, and tears out but in order to become a Championship team Duke will need a third option

We have a third and a fourth and a fifth option who POUR their guts into every second of every game. ME THINKS you are a fair weather fan!

[Devilsfan]

Duke definitely has two super stars, but Dave had 12 rebounds! Where we got killed is the total of 2 points from our other three bigs, and 4 turnovers and 5 assists from our wonderful guard tandem. I'd settle for just one big or one guard playing like you should in a big game if you are lucky enough to be on the court and wearing a jersy with DUKE on it.

[jv001]

If Jon shoots anything like he's supposed to, we probably would not be talking about how bad everything is with this team except Gerald and Jon. Jon Scheyer is a very good basketball player who is in a slump. His track record shows he will more than likely snap out of it. I had rather for him to be in the slump now than in March. He does however do more for this team than score points. He is our best ball handler(assists to tos) and plays good defense. Lance is trying to play the #5 position in a #4 or #3 body. he does not have the power to produce at the 5 and he does not have the offense to play the 3 or 4 positions. So he's not contributing except to take a few fouls. I look for Coach K to give Miles some of his mins unless he picks it up. After saying all that, I would hate to be Virginia. Go Duke!

[DukieInBrasil]

whether we are becoming a two-star team or not is up for debate but in my mind that rests largely with another distinct problem that has developed for our boys. The inability of Nolan Smith to adapt to the PG position in league play. In fact neither he nor Greg have provided the offensive creativity that the PG needs to give the team. Nolan had 0 assists against Wake, Greg had 2 against 0 TOs, which is decent. Neither scored well and in the overall assessment, did not play well at the PG position.
Now, without good PG play the team as a whole has had to develop offense somehow, and we have 2 natural scorers in Hendo and Singler who can get us lots of points on most nights. I wish it was still 3, but Jon has not been able to shoot very well lately, i am hoping he finds his stroke very soon. When we were playing OOC Nolan scored well but at no point this year has he really played like a PG, which is not a terrible thing in and of itself since G, Kyle and Jon all have the ability to make good passes to assist scoring opps. Against Wake this deficiency became glaring when, as a team, we had way more TOs than assists, indicating that we did not have a good facilitator, or creator, of offense. We need for Nolan and Greg to find a way to create more offense for the team, and that can come from scoring the ball themselves too. But for the 2 of them to combine for 2 assists (against 2 TOs) is not a good sign for the team.

[miramar]

These guys have shown themselves to be very tough competitors that play as a team. You can't fault their defensive performance, and they have put up some impressive rebounding numbers, which has been a real weak spot since Shelden graduated.

Having said that, they clearly need three principal offensive players for the big games, and unfortunately they haven't had it the entire season. Singler has been very consistent, but Henderson got off to a slow start and Scheyer's numbers have dropped dramatically (he's shooting 13/56=23% in the ACC).

Shooting slumps are strange and unpredictable in length, but I'm confident that he will snap out of it. I'm also hopeful that Plumlee will make an important contribution, even if he doesn't get as many minutes as the first eight.

[pamtar]

If we are becoming a two man team (which we're not), I cant think of two candidates better suited for the job.

[jipops]

This is nothing more than a knee jerk reaction to what transpired in ONE game. You may want to check out the team statistics for the season so far. There are 4 guys averaging double figures. This definitely does not indicate a 2 man team. Scheyer and Smith just didn't have good games offensively last night. If you were to go back and watch however, other than his shot not going down Scheyer was actually excellent.

[Jumbo]

Several other good responses already, particularly the one recognizing that last year, we lamented having no go-to guy. This also an overreaction to one game where two guys carried the bulk of the scoring load.

Flash back to December. We were all worried about being a two-man scoring outfit ... of Scheyer and Singler. Back then, G was slumping. He came out of it. Scheyer is too good a player to keep shooting like this, and even with his jumper off, he still got to the line and contributed 13 points. Plus, even when he's not scoring, he's contributing in every other way. So, he's still a big part of our offense, whether it's setting other people up, drawing defenders, etc.

Yes, it would be nice to get a bit more consistent scoring from the Smith/Paulus combo. It would be great if we could get a few junk baskets out of the five spot. (Anyone asking for Dave to suddenly contribute offense after five years is asking for way too much -- he's already doing all that is necessary for this team to win.) But those are secondary concerns. We're not a two-man team. Chill.

[jipops]

whether we are becoming a two-star team or not is up for debate but in my mind that rests largely with another distinct problem that has developed for our boys. The inability of Nolan Smith to adapt to the PG position in league play. In fact neither he nor Greg have provided the offensive creativity that the PG needs to give the team. Nolan had 0 assists against Wake, Greg had 2 against 0 TOs, which is decent. Neither scored well and in the overall assessment, did not play well at the PG position.

Nolan has never spent time at point until coming to Duke and this season he's the been asked to be the starter. I'd disagree and say Nolan is adapting as a pg extremely well, especially in ACC play. If he wasn't, we wouldn't be a top 5 team. Sure his assist numbers are not that great but considering what he has been asked to do, he has been accomplishing it beautifully (last night being an exception). Nolan is going to get better as he gains more experience at the position. My concerns with this team definitely do not rest on Nolan's shoulders.

[sagegrouse]

With everyone contributing. In particular, Smith, McClure, Thomas, Scheyer, and Zoubek have been very effective on defense. The only conference game where the opponent exceeded 60 was last night, due I believe to a number of breakaways from TOs by Duke.

Rather than adding another scorer, I hope the defensive intensity continues.

sagegrouse
'IMHO we will get some real contributions from Jon, Greg and Nolan as the season progresses'

[CDu]

We're not a two-man team. We've got two exceptional scorers and a few very capable scorers in support of them. This team is NOTHING like the 2005-2006 team, which literally had two real scoring threats and a few guys who had limited offensive games but could occasionally crack double digits on a good night.

Right now, Scheyer is struggling with his field goal shooting. But we should note that, in spite of shooting poorly, Scheyer has been in double digits in all but two games since December began, and he brings a very good all-around game to the table. Tonight he looked tentative at times, and it wasn't one of his better all-around efforts, but he did give us 13 points and had a really good look at the three that would have given us the lead.

Smith is struggling with his offensive game as a whole. I wonder if the knee is affecting him (even if it's just mentally), if he's just in a really bad slump, or if he's just struggling with the increased level of competition he's facing now. In any case, he's certainly capable of 20+ points on any night, and he does usually play great defense as well. He's clearly not a point guard, but he's not asked to run the show.

Paulus is what he is - a very gifted shooter and heady player with limited quickness and leaping ability. He's a good fit as a backup guard, capable of playing point guard and shooting guard. That said, he's also shown the ability (less so this year admittedly) to be a scoring presence with his outside shot.

So we have three legitimate weapons outside of the big two. That's more than most teams can say. Are those three secondary scorers getting it done right now? Probably not as much as we'd all prefer. But they're certainly capable. And given that we do still have those two scoring machines AND play great defense, it's not exactly the worst of problems to have.

[BlueintheFace]

Flash back to December. We were all worried about being a two-man scoring outfit ... of Scheyer and Singler. Back then, G was slumping. He came out of it. Scheyer is too good a player to keep shooting like this, and even with his jumper off, he still got to the line and contributed 13 points. Plus, even when he's not scoring, he's contributing in every other way. So, he's still a big part of our offense, whether it's setting other people up, drawing defenders, etc.


I really do hope he'll come out of it, but December Jon has been gone for awhile. We have played 6 acc games and he has not played to that level offensively yet. I am actually afraid that he is regressing and looking a bit less confident with every game. You are right about all the intangibles, but with each passing game I become increasingly worried about his offensive production.


I hope you are right that this is a slump that he will come out of, but I am becoming increasingly less confident about it. Another 2 or 3 games and I might give up hope on that front.

[Kedsy]

I'm not meaning to be criticial b/c I love those guys who do poor their blood, guts, and tears out but in order to become a Championship team Duke will need a third option.

This whole discussion is silly. Duke lost by 2 points because of a last second shot on the road to a team that was number one in the country a week ago. One could persuasively argue there's nothing wrong with the Blue Devils at all.

If you still want to analyze the loss, however, personally I don't think the lack of a "third option" had anything to do with it. What I saw was Duke's defense losing its edge for the first 10 minutes of the second half which allowed a really good Wake team to build a double digit lead. Since the Duke D reasserted itself and the team roared all the way back to tie it with 2 seconds left, I don't think there's anything to complain about here.

[appzter]

May I remind some of you of our incredibly well balanced scoring against Maryland less than a week ago?


TOT-FG 3-PT REBOUNDS
## Player Name FG-FGA FG-FGA FT-FTA OF DE TOT PF TP A TO BLK S MIN
12 Kyle Singler........ f 3-9 1-3 4-4 3 4 7 0 11 2 2 2 2 22
15 Gerald Henderson.... f 7-8 2-2 1-3 2 6 8 0 17 4 2 0 2 23
55 Brian Zoubek........ c 4-7 0-0 1-2 7 2 9 3 9 3 0 4 1 18
02 Nolan Smith......... g 2-6 2-2 2-2 1 1 2 1 8 4 0 0 1 19
30 Jon Scheyer......... g 4-13 4-8 0-0 1 4 5 1 12 3 1 0 1 24
03 Greg Paulus......... 3-6 1-3 0-0 1 4 5 1 7 4 2 0 0 17
05 Martynas Pocius..... 1-4 1-4 0-0 1 1 2 0 3 1 1 0 1 11
13 Olek Czyz........... 0-2 0-2 0-0 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 1 0 9
14 David McClure....... 1-2 0-0 0-0 0 4 4 1 2 0 0 0 0 11
20 Elliot Williams..... 3-5 1-1 2-4 0 1 1 3 9 1 0 0 0 14
21 Miles Plumlee....... 0-5 0-0 0-0 2 3 5 2 0 0 0 3 1 12
42 Lance Thomas........ 3-6 0-0 1-4 2 1 3 2 7 0 0 2 2 17
51 Steve Johnson....... 0-0 0-0 0-0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 3
TEAM................ 1 3 4 1
Totals.............. 31-73 12-25 11-19 21 35 56 15 85 23 10 12 11 200

[jv001]

May I remind some of you of our incredibly well balanced scoring against Maryland less than a week ago?


TOT-FG 3-PT REBOUNDS
## Player Name FG-FGA FG-FGA FT-FTA OF DE TOT PF TP A TO BLK S MIN
12 Kyle Singler........ f 3-9 1-3 4-4 3 4 7 0 11 2 2 2 2 22
15 Gerald Henderson.... f 7-8 2-2 1-3 2 6 8 0 17 4 2 0 2 23
55 Brian Zoubek........ c 4-7 0-0 1-2 7 2 9 3 9 3 0 4 1 18
02 Nolan Smith......... g 2-6 2-2 2-2 1 1 2 1 8 4 0 0 1 19
30 Jon Scheyer......... g 4-13 4-8 0-0 1 4 5 1 12 3 1 0 1 24
03 Greg Paulus......... 3-6 1-3 0-0 1 4 5 1 7 4 2 0 0 17
05 Martynas Pocius..... 1-4 1-4 0-0 1 1 2 0 3 1 1 0 1 11
13 Olek Czyz........... 0-2 0-2 0-0 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 1 0 9
14 David McClure....... 1-2 0-0 0-0 0 4 4 1 2 0 0 0 0 11
20 Elliot Williams..... 3-5 1-1 2-4 0 1 1 3 9 1 0 0 0 14
21 Miles Plumlee....... 0-5 0-0 0-0 2 3 5 2 0 0 0 3 1 12
42 Lance Thomas........ 3-6 0-0 1-4 2 1 3 2 7 0 0 2 2 17
51 Steve Johnson....... 0-0 0-0 0-0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 3
TEAM................ 1 3 4 1
Totals.............. 31-73 12-25 11-19 21 35 56 15 85 23 10 12 11 200


Please don't compare Wake Forest with maryland. Wake is one of the five best teams in the country and maryland is no better than 125th best team in the country(just plucked that # out of the air). Go Duke!

[miramar]

whether we are becoming a two-star team or not is up for debate but in my mind that rests largely with another distinct problem that has developed for our boys. The inability of Nolan Smith to adapt to the PG position in league play. In fact neither he nor Greg have provided the offensive creativity that the PG needs to give the team. Nolan had 0 assists against Wake, Greg had 2 against 0 TOs, which is decent. Neither scored well and in the overall assessment, did not play well at the PG position.
Now, without good PG play the team as a whole has had to develop offense somehow, and we have 2 natural scorers in Hendo and Singler who can get us lots of points on most nights. I wish it was still 3, but Jon has not been able to shoot very well lately, i am hoping he finds his stroke very soon. When we were playing OOC Nolan scored well but at no point this year has he really played like a PG, which is not a terrible thing in and of itself since G, Kyle and Jon all have the ability to make good passes to assist scoring opps. Against Wake this deficiency became glaring when, as a team, we had way more TOs than assists, indicating that we did not have a good facilitator, or creator, of offense. We need for Nolan and Greg to find a way to create more offense for the team, and that can come from scoring the ball themselves too. But for the 2 of them to combine for 2 assists (against 2 TOs) is not a good sign for the team.

You want your PG to have an assist to turnover ratio of at least 2, but right now Smith is at 38/36 (1.1), so that's a problem that he will solve over time as he evolves from a combo guard to a true PG. Paulus is 30/17 (1.76) and I suspect that he's been improving of late, so that's OK. Scheyer is 56/32 (1.75), which is fine for a shooting guard who drives as much as he does. The team leader is McClure at 21/8 (2.94), which goes to show you that the guy does things right. Miles is at a painful 1/19, but those are growing pains that he will get over soon.

[Kilby]

I'm not worried. Gerald and Kyle are stars. Jon will be fine as long as he does not try to jack up more shots than anyone else when his shot is off. Nolan will be fine. Paulus is a good sub. But Greg is the weakest 7 footer that I have ever seen. His footwork will never be great so he needs to be strong. Someone get that man some red meat in his diet and iron in his workouts. Until then I would like to see what Miles can do.

[RepoMan]

In the 05/06 season Duke was unable to win a championship with JJ and Shelden, this year it appears that Kyle and Gerald are leading the team but nobody is stepping up to help them out.

As already has been recognized, this is patently absurd, and, actually, offensive to some kids who have played hard and well.

Furthermore, even if you bought into the absurd premise, a "two man team" with Gerald and Kyle playing at the level they played last night (and the rest of the team playing at the level they played last night) could go far in the tournament, further than the "two man team" of JJ and Shel, in my opinion.

[Kedsy]

Paulus is a good sub. But Greg is the weakest 7 footer that I have ever seen. His footwork will never be great so he needs to be strong.

Greg is actually a six footer. Brian is a seven footer.

[Jeffrey]

I really do hope he'll come out of it, but December Jon has been gone for awhile. We have played 6 acc games and he has not played to that level offensively yet. I am actually afraid that he is regressing and looking a bit less confident with every game. You are right about all the intangibles, but with each passing game I become increasingly worried about his offensive production.

Hi,

Excluding the conference play issue, an almost identical statement could have been said of G before X-Mas.

These are young men still learning and they're bound to cycle. Have faith! IMO, this is an exceptional team that will produce (including Jon) come March.

Best regards,
Jeffrey

[Kedsy]

As already has been recognized, this is patently absurd, and, actually, offensive to some kids who have played hard and well.

Furthermore, even if you bought into the absurd premise, a "two man team" with Gerald and Kyle playing at the level they played last night (and the rest of the team playing at the level they played last night) could go far in the tournament, further than the "two man team" of JJ and Shel, in my opinion.

Actually I think it's more absurd than that. The 2006 team was both the ACC regular season and tournament chamption, was number one in the country going into the NCAA tournament, and happened to have both a poor shooting and poor defensive performance on the same day against a very athletic team that ended up in the Final Four. Before they played Duke, LSU won a game on a last second shot or they wouldn't even have been there, and my guess is whoever LSU beat wouldn't have been nearly as tough matchup-wise for Duke, but that's the way things go in the unpredictable world of the NCAA tourney.

My point is if every year Duke had as many "problems" as the 2005-06 team, I'd be absolutely thrilled. They were the best team in the country that happened to play one bad game.

[Cameron]

Jon Scheyer is a very good basketball player who is in a slump.

Jon connected on four triples during our last game. Honestly, although he does appear to be hitting shots at a much more inconsistent rate than usual, Jon is a hot and cold streak shooter. That's his outside type. JJ's outside type was that of a pure stroke, a shooter that just might make every shot he takes. Not Jon's game. He's always going to be extremely hot or extremely cold, because he's a streak shooter.

He'll put together a warm points-in-bunches game before we know it, probably against Virginia.

His overall game, though, is fantastic. The smartest basketball player in the country. I've been saying that for two years now.

As for the continuing, "Greg cannot play defense," outreach, that is clearly not the case, as Bob Green pointed out earlier in this thread. Greg may not be an all-world defender, but he's improved greatly from a season ago and has come up with timely steals, ball deflections, drawn charges, etc. when we have needed them this season. He's playing fine by my book. It would have been nice if a couple more of his threes could have fallen, but that's life.

Gerald, though, has definitely proven that he's the man who wants the ball with seconds left on the clock, and he's proven he can be that man, that Reggie Miller-like figure. Belmont last year and last night's pressure cooker J with around ten on the clock.

The ending sucked, but, again, life tends to suck sometimes.

[Surfsideron]

Reading all the posts that suddenly are negative makes me laugh. Who are the real Duke fans?

Our guys lose a game to a top five team in the opponent's building by 2 points on a last second play and suddenly the "sky is falling?"

Wake, a team of giants and possessing "the best point guard in the country" scores 70 points and gets outrebounded by undersized Duke.

Duke shot 4-22 from 3-point range. Just think if just one more had fallen! We'd all be singing the team's praises from now until Feb. 11th!!

Don't worry gang. Duke is the best team in the ACC and they will prove it in February!

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Reading all the posts that suddenly are negative makes me laugh. Who are the real Duke fans?

Our guys lose a game to a top five team in the opponent's building by 2 points on a last second play and suddenly the "sky is falling?"

Wake, a team of giants and possessing "the best point guard in the country" scores 70 points and gets outrebounded by undersized Duke.

Duke shot 4-22 from 3-point range. Just think if just one more had fallen! We'd all be singing the team's praises from now until Feb. 11th!!

Don't worry gang. Duke is the best team in the ACC and they will prove it in February!
Perhaps how one views a game or series of games depends on what sort of lens one uses. Microscope? Periscope? Telescope? Kaleidoscope?

[geraldsneighbor]

I don't think that is fair to call it a 2-man team. Last night, sure it was, but you need that to get back in games.

It isn't a 2 man team when you have 4 guys averaging double figures though.

[ACCBBallFan]

I think this Duke two-man team phenomena (three actually with Scheyer as other have pointed out) is unique to the Wake game where Z was getting stuffed every attempt.

Nolan played skeered. Greg was only marginally effective, though both helped neutalize Teague and LD Williams from their normal productuvuty too.

Some of this is direct resutl of having to play McClure which mortages the offense, when Z had to be pulled after Chas McFarland exit made his presence problematic against more atheltic guys, as was the case vs. Greg Monroe.

McClure and Weaver offset each other's stong performances and Lance did zilch.

Not sure what is currently affecting Lance but I expect him to play better once whatever it is is healed.

Plumlee and Elliott did not hurt the cause vs. a F4 team which bodes well for their future PT vs. lesser teams.

[notonemore]

Because a fan expresses his or her opinion, it makes them not a real Duke fan? Are you kidding me? I don't think we are a "two man team" by any stretch of the imagination, but the guy who started this thread may see that developing in his eye. Unlike some of you above me, I don't think he suddenly doesn't like Duke, he was just making an observation as to what he sees. One of you guys said it was "knee jerk", and while that may be the case, it is a little harsh, don't you think?


While I personally disagree with his comment that we have suddenly become "Two Man" , I feel that 37 and 34 minutes from ANY 2 players is not necessary. Look at the box scores and you'll see KS had 37 and JS had 34 minutes respectively. Like him or not, and I don't care, Vitale made a remark during the game last night that we had shortened the bench, and we're not utilizing people as we had earlier in the season. Of course that is nothing new, as it's what we do every year. That's my opinion as well as many others.

Much has been made about Kyle Singler's strength and conditioning, and I hope it's right. While some here will say they are "young and in shape", reality is 37 minutes in ACC action will wear your butt out, I don't care who you are. For Kyle's sake, I hope he gets about 30 minutes per game MAX, and no one gets much more than that. I for one think fresh legs, or lack thereof has hurt us late in the season for the past couple of years, not L.O.F.T. ( I hope you know what that is). Many nationwide agree.

I'm new to posting here, but have been watching for several years. I know some agree with me on the minutes played thing, and some don't. And that's perfectly ok. All I DO know is, I hope EVERY member of this Duke squad is as fresh as they can be come tournament time because if they are not, well, a couple of rounds is all we should expect. And that would be a travesty, because I really think this team is just about as good as ANYONE when healthy and fresh.

We shall see, won't we?

[Kedsy]

While I personally disagree with his comment that we have suddenly become "Two Man" , I feel that 37 and 34 minutes from ANY 2 players is not necessary. Look at the box scores and you'll see KS had 37 and JS had 34 minutes respectively. Like him or not, and I don't care, Vitale made a remark during the game last night that we had shortened the bench, and we're not utilizing people as we had earlier in the season. Of course that is nothing new, as it's what we do every year. That's my opinion as well as many others.


I was hoping we could get through one game without someone bemoaning how many minutes Kyle, G, and Jon are playing. Alas.

Also, my recollection of Vitale talking about a shortening bench is that he was referring to Wake, who didn't play either of their 7 foot freshmen yesterday and only played Hale for nominal minutes.

[greybeard]

I agree that this discussion is silly. I didn't get to see the first half (someone actually asked for my help in running a practice), but, in the second half, I don't think that I've ever seen a guy defend the rim the way that that freshman from Wake did. That to me was the difference in the game.

You try to dunk, blocked; you try to lay it in, blocked, all off of terrific moves that you expect are baskets. Kid came from the offside and usually committed very late, probably precluding a drop off to the guy who he was guarding.

By the way, he goal tended on that one by Gerald, and the charge call against Singler coming from the left side along the baseline was atrocious.

But, this kid made attacking the rim in the second half just about impossible. Never have seen anything like it. They had other bigs posing obstacles as well. But, the freshman for Wake took away Duke's inside game. That will not happen too often, and I expect Duke will do better against this kid the next time. When you can't score at the rim, and no one on this team could the entire time I watched (maybe one or two baskets that took real, real work), it makes playing offense real tough.

Gosh can Kyle and Gerald play. And, McClure, he was spectacular. He guarded the bigs, stopped them and outrebounded them. He switched on a little, and they didn't even try. Also, McClure had a terrific assist. McClure can make that 15 foot shot and maybe next time he'll try a couple.

[Classof06]

Everyone keeps saying that fans were complaining about not having a "go-to" guy last year. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't completely remember many people having that complaint. I think the complaint was that they didn't have a go-to post player, but we had several players that were capable of taking games over; they were just all on the perimeter. Remember, between Scheyer, Singler, Henderson and Nelson, there was almost always a different leading scorer from one game to the next.

I'm not going to call Duke a two-man team but I do think there is a bit of a cause for concern. I don't think anyone can deny that offensively in the 2nd half, when it was all on the line, it was G, Kyle or nobody. That cannot continue. Scheyer will come around with his scoring but that alone is not going to cure the problem. Some of the other players need to step up offensively and there's really no way around it.

I'm someone who really isn't that distraught over last night at all and was actually satisfied with some of the things I saw (ie: rebounding, ability to take Wake's best punch on the road then come back and tie the game on a terrible shooting night, etc). But I do think we relied waay too much on Henderson and Singler.

It's not yet a problem but it has the potential to turn into one.

[Classof06]

Gosh can Kyle and Gerald play. And, McClure, he was spectacular. He guarded the bigs, stopped them and outrebounded them. He switched on a little, and they didn't even try. Also, McClure had a terrific assist. McClure can make that 15 foot shot and maybe next time he'll try a couple.

The quoted post is quite interesting because it sheds light on a dilemma that Duke will encounter every time they play an elite team and the game is close down the stretch.

David McClure is arguably, check that--probably, the single best comprehensive defender on this team. He plays impeccable ball and off-ball defense and has extremely underrated athleticism. He also blocks shots and rebounds very well for his size (6-6 at best) on a team that isn't very big and sometimes struggles on the glass. Most importantly, however, he can successfully guard any position from the 1 through the 4. These are the reasons McClure is on the court and rightfully so. This team needs Dave.

But it's hard to argue that offensively, he poses a problem for Duke. ACC teams know McClure will not shoot the ball and he rarely does anything to prove them wrong. Thus, Duke is almost playing 4 on 5 in many situations. Yes, McClure is a solid finisher and will catch and score the ball when thrown to him. But you can't tell me a defense isn't at an advantage when they're 98.5% sure one of the 5 other players ain't gonna shoot come hell or high water.

The kicker? McClure is better offensively than he gives himself credit for. We've all seen him hit mid-range shots and finish around the rim. But you can tell he doesn't have any type of confidence on the offensive end (unless the shot clock forces his hand) and I believe it hurts this team.

Thus, the conundrum of McClure..

[SMO]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't completely remember many people having that complaint.

I think you're wrong, but don't take it personally:o I remember many a fan complaining that G needed to be the go-to guy, etc. Some would prefer it be a post guy for some reason, but the general dissatisfaction with no go-to guy was raised many times.

[Kedsy]

I'm not going to call Duke a two-man team but I do think there is a bit of a cause for concern. I don't think anyone can deny that offensively in the 2nd half, when it was all on the line, it was G, Kyle or nobody. That cannot continue. Scheyer will come around with his scoring but that alone is not going to cure the problem. Some of the other players need to step up offensively and there's really no way around it.


It's only a problem if the player or players who are scoring every possession are (a) injured; (b) in foul trouble; or (c) locked up by a great defensive player.

Granted, we would be in huge trouble if, for example, Kyle Singler couldn't be on the floor at the end of a tight game. But in my opinion that would primarily be because of his defense and rebounding, not because of his offense.

Just because the other players defer to Kyle and G at the end of close games doesn't mean they can't step up if one of them, e.g., fouls out. Personally I think we have several players that would shine in such a situation. But we won't know unless it happens, and if it doesn't happen then it doesn't matter.

And I really don't understand when you say even if Scheyer comes around it isn't going to "cure the problem." How many big-time scoring options do you think we need?

[BlueintheFace]

Hi,

Excluding the conference play issue, an almost identical statement could have been said of G before X-Mas.

These are young men still learning and they're bound to cycle. Have faith! IMO, this is an exceptional team that will produce (including Jon) come March.

Best regards,
Jeffrey

I fundamentally disagree. G was a very talented player who was waiting for it to click. It was all an upward slope for him with a few blips here and there where he showed what he could really do earlier on. He wasn't slumping at all. Jon has actually fallen from a higher level of play in terms of offensive production. He is in what people call a slump. In my opinion there are 2 kinds of slumps:

1) The kind that happens to every player from time to time. This kind of slump can be broken out of fairly easily with a good performance or with a little bit of time.

2) The kind that feeds on itself and decreases the confidence of a player in his ability to score more and more. This kind of slump can lead a player to have a bad remainder of the season relative to the period before the slump started (EX: Melchioni's Senior year... first one that came to my head but there are others).

I do not contest that Jon brings TONS to this team... passing ability... defense... etc... BUT, we really do NEED him to be a scorer to be a final four team. My concern is that he might be going through the second kind of slump which would actually hurt us in March. He would still be a very valuable member of the team, but would fail to be that third talented offensive option that K hoped he would be when the season started. RIGHT NOW, Duke has the big two, and K envisioned a big three. I hope he can get back to that level, but he has been down the entire ACC season so far. That is not encouraging.

[greybeard]

I think McClure has scored the ball in important situations this year on his own initiative and he had one of the few successful attacks at the basket the entire second half. He took a crossover step from deep on the right wing, dribbled towards the line at a pretty good pace, beat his man, went to the basket, the Monster from Wake came towards him, and I'm still not sure how he did it, but he reached towards the baseline with the ball in two hands and threw a bounce pass back into the court that resulted in an easy layup.

Beating his man to the basket was one thing. Beating the KID (whose timing on help defense last night was impecable) with esxtraordinary pass was exactly the type of offensive help that I would think wins games. Heck, it almost did.

David I think is a mature Duke senior who will find a way to do what Duke needs to win. Like I said, tough to find and make outside shots last night without psoing some attack the rim, and David posed his teammates exactly that. He maybe could have found a spot or two for that 15 footer, but I suspect that play he made might be viewed on the film an awful lot before the next time these two teams meet.

Yeah, on the other hand, he probably should score the ball more, so I'm not hatin the thought; just think that the fat lady has yet to sing. Go David!

[Hancock 4 Duke]

This is true. Nolan Smith should definitely help a little more, as well as Scheyer. Scheyer has lost his confidence a little. He doesn't seem to shoot as often anymore.

[Bob Green]

Scheyer has lost his confidence a little. He doesn't seem to shoot as often anymore.

The data doesn't support your statement:

1. Jon Scheyer is averaging 9 FG attempts per game this season.
2. Jon Scheyer averaged 7.61 FG attempts per game last season.
3. Jon Scheyer averaged 8.6 FG attempts per game as a freshman.

He took 10 shots against Wake Forest.

[CDu]

The data doesn't support your statement:

1. Jon Scheyer is averaging 9 FG attempts per game this season.
2. Jon Scheyer averaged 7.61 FG attempts per game last season.
3. Jon Scheyer averaged 8.6 FG attempts per game as a freshman.

He took 10 shots against Wake Forest.

Yup. He's still shooting. He's just not shooting nearly as well lately. He's 21-74 from the field (slightly better 13-39 from 3pt range) since ACC play started. He's still averaged almost 12 points per game in spite of that. But it would be nice if he could get those percentages back up a bit.

[Jumbo]

Because a fan expresses his or her opinion, it makes them not a real Duke fan? Are you kidding me? I don't think we are a "two man team" by any stretch of the imagination, but the guy who started this thread may see that developing in his eye. Unlike some of you above me, I don't think he suddenly doesn't like Duke, he was just making an observation as to what he sees. One of you guys said it was "knee jerk", and while that may be the case, it is a little harsh, don't you think?


While I personally disagree with his comment that we have suddenly become "Two Man" , I feel that 37 and 34 minutes from ANY 2 players is not necessary. Look at the box scores and you'll see KS had 37 and JS had 34 minutes respectively. Like him or not, and I don't care, Vitale made a remark during the game last night that we had shortened the bench, and we're not utilizing people as we had earlier in the season. Of course that is nothing new, as it's what we do every year. That's my opinion as well as many others.

Much has been made about Kyle Singler's strength and conditioning, and I hope it's right. While some here will say they are "young and in shape", reality is 37 minutes in ACC action will wear your butt out, I don't care who you are. For Kyle's sake, I hope he gets about 30 minutes per game MAX, and no one gets much more than that. I for one think fresh legs, or lack thereof has hurt us late in the season for the past couple of years, not L.O.F.T. ( I hope you know what that is). Many nationwide agree.

I'm new to posting here, but have been watching for several years. I know some agree with me on the minutes played thing, and some don't. And that's perfectly ok. All I DO know is, I hope EVERY member of this Duke squad is as fresh as they can be come tournament time because if they are not, well, a couple of rounds is all we should expect. And that would be a travesty, because I really think this team is just about as good as ANYONE when healthy and fresh.

We shall see, won't we?

Heck of a first post. First of all, one person -- ONE -- questioned the OP's fandom. The rest of us didn't say a word. But enough about that.

Your take on minutes played is laughable. Singler was so tired from playing 37 minutes ... that he hit two huge threes at the end and grabbed several key boards. Gerald was so tired ... that he hit the game-tying jumper and leaped above everyone for that rebound on that last possession. I guess if he weren't tired, he wouldn't have landed on Teague and traveled, though.

It is patently absurd to suggest limiting players to a maximum of 30 minutes in a game. It's an arbitrary number, and it means your best guys are on the bench for at least a quarter of the game. Ridiculous.

BTW, here are a few facts for you to digest. For Wake, Johnson played 36 minutes, Teague played 34 and Aminu played 33. Duke's bench played 65 minutes. Wake's bench played 54 minutes. So, I guess Wake must REALLY be in trouble!

And Vitale is right -- we're not utilizing guys as we did earlier in the year. In our first couple of close games, Plumlee and Williams didn't even really play. Last night, they got seven and three minutes, respectively. So, we've gone deeper. Fantastic insight by Vitale. Fantastic job of parroting that insight by you.

[Deb4Duke4Ever]

My issue is not the production of a particular player or players (other than G or Kyle) "stepping up", it is the whole offense in general. The offense has been stagnant in quite a few games recently (except the Maryland game where the Twerps had no defense). The usual Duke offense has flow to it. Players drive, cut, dish into the post, then relocate or score from the post. With the exception of some great games, none of the players move enough to get the defensive players out of position in order to open up scoring opportunities.

So many times, I see one player dribble up top and everyone just seems to stand around waiting for one person to do something. If players would cut or drive, move the ball from one side to the other and make the defense scramble, the offense would open up for all players to score.

Also, the team tries to rely too much on jacking up threes when driving and drawing contact would help more. I would like to see Jon, Kyle, G, and Nolan drive the ball to generate opportunities at the line. Nothing helps a jump shot better than seeing the ball go into the hoop from a free throw. Too many times, I see guys launch threes that are not in an offensive flow. From my perspective, if your shot is not going down, go inside and work your way out.

Last, I would like to see them do more in transition. Whether a miss or a make by the other team, push the ball to try and generate easier scoring opportunities without the defense being set up. They do not push the ball enough IMO.

Just my 0.02. :)

[notonemore]

Are you saying fatigue is NOT a factor in basketball? And for the record, I'm not talking about ONE game, I'm talking about the toll it has on your legs, and for that matter entire body late in the season. Think not? Just ask Kyle Singler about last season. Ask JJ about his senior season too. And will you also question that late in the season is the most important?

I stand firmly behind my remarks that NO ONE should have to play 37 minutes on this team. We have PLENTY of talent on the bench, and playing tired at any point in this season should not in any way, shape or form be an issue. If you disagree with that, it is indeed your right. But to say no one should address it here is very narrowminded indeed. I surely hope you do not believe that playing "tired" is not a real part of the game, because it is. I can assure you, I've had my butt kicked by players of less ability when I was tired. And vice-versa. All things being equal, the fresher player will get that lose ball, snatch that important rebound or beat you with a quicker step off the dribble. Did you see Ty Lawson last night? I have no idea if you played sports, play now or were an All-American at Duke, but I assure you any athlete, coach, commentator, referee or knowledgeable fan will tell you fatigue IS a factor late in the game, and even more so late in the season. And I emphasize the word "knowledgeable" prior to the word fan.

I think everyone played their heart out last night. Surely Singler, Henderson, and McClure had great games. Yes, I would say great. I am not the least bit concerned about lack of effort, or the loss in general for that matter. Losing at Wake by a buzzer beater is nothing to get alarmed about. What is, in my opinion, is that Zou played very little in the 2nd half, while Pocious and Williams played none. None? They aren't good enough to play a couple of minutes a half? I know the answer to that question beyond the shadow of a doubt. I wager my money that a fresher Singler is better than a tired Singler. A fresher JS is better than a tired JS. While there is no way to prove this point from either direction, I bet playing Marty or Elliott for 3 minutes, say around the 14 minute mark in each half, wouldn't cause us to lose the game. While EVERY play is just as important as any other, it would go a long ways towards keeping everyone fresh at the end.

Want a perfect example? Let's say the game is tied and your opponent has an inbound pass under their basket. If you are the defender, what is your PRIMARY objective? If you don't know, I will tell you. WITHOUT QUESTION, to make your man beat you with a jump shot, NOT a layup. You keep your body between your man and the basket at all costs. Fundamantal defense is what it's called. It's taught, and I'm not being sarcastic, in little league. To continue with my scenario, let's say your man fakes one way, pushes you off and beats you to the hole for the winning layup. Sound familiar? Well it's this simple, like it or not. Either G simply got beat, was fouled, or was not quite as fresh. I don't know which it was, but I do know it happened. But hey I may be mistaken. After all, I'm only a real DUKE fan.

[RepoMan]

Are you saying fatigue is NOT a factor in basketball? And for the record, I'm not talking about ONE game, I'm talking about the toll it has on your legs, and for that matter entire body late in the season. Think not? Just ask Kyle Singler about last season. Ask JJ about his senior season too. And will you also question that late in the season is the most important?

I stand firmly behind my remarks that NO ONE should have to play 37 minutes on this team. We have PLENTY of talent on the bench, and playing tired at any point in this season should not in any way, shape or form be an issue. If you disagree with that, it is indeed your right. But to say no one should address it here is very narrowminded indeed. I surely hope you do not believe that playing "tired" is not a real part of the game, because it is. I can assure you, I've had my butt kicked by players of less ability when I was tired. And vice-versa. All things being equal, the fresher player will get that lose ball, snatch that important rebound or beat you with a quicker step off the dribble. Did you see Ty Lawson last night? I have no idea if you played sports, play now or were an All-American at Duke, but I assure you any athlete, coach, commentator, referee or knowledgeable fan will tell you fatigue IS a factor late in the game, and even more so late in the season. And I emphasize the word "knowledgeable" prior to the word fan.

I think everyone played their heart out last night. Surely Singler, Henderson, and McClure had great games. Yes, I would say great. I am not the least bit concerned about lack of effort, or the loss in general for that matter. Losing at Wake by a buzzer beater is nothing to get alarmed about. What is, in my opinion, is that Zou played very little in the 2nd half, while Pocious and Williams played none. None? They aren't good enough to play a couple of minutes a half? I know the answer to that question beyond the shadow of a doubt. I wager my money that a fresher Singler is better than a tired Singler. A fresher JS is better than a tired JS. While there is no way to prove this point from either direction, I bet playing Marty or Elliott for 3 minutes, say around the 14 minute mark in each half, wouldn't cause us to lose the game. While EVERY play is just as important as any other, it would go a long ways towards keeping everyone fresh at the end.

Want a perfect example? Let's say the game is tied and your opponent has an inbound pass under their basket. If you are the defender, what is your PRIMARY objective? If you don't know, I will tell you. WITHOUT QUESTION, to make your man beat you with a jump shot, NOT a layup. You keep your body between your man and the basket at all costs. Fundamantal defense is what it's called. It's taught, and I'm not being sarcastic, in little league. To continue with my scenario, let's say your man fakes one way, pushes you off and beats you to the hole for the winning layup. Sound familiar? Well it's this simple, like it or not. Either G simply got beat, was fouled, or was not quite as fresh. I don't know which it was, but I do know it happened. But hey I may be mistaken. After all, I'm only a real DUKE fan.

Dude: Please use the search function and read the countless threads on this. Please.

Re Scheyer. I suppose it most likely is nothing more than one of those slumps that comes and goes. I wonder, though, if his increased responsibility for running the offense might be a factor.

[Classof06]

And I really don't understand when you say even if Scheyer comes around it isn't going to "cure the problem." How many big-time scoring options do you think we need?

They don't need to be "big-time" options, but more than 2. I wholeheartedly disagree with the comparison to the 05-06 team (my senior year, btw). But, as you saw with that team, having just 2 consistent scorers is not the way to reach your full potential. Remember, JJ Redick and Shelden Williams never made a Final Four without Luol Deng.

None of the past few national champs have relied on two players the way we did last night. I realize it's just one game and the sky is not falling. I'm just saying that Nolan and Zoubek have averaged 7.7 and 5.4 ppg respectively over the past 10 games. Personally, that makes me a little uneasy. Sure, Henderson has exploded over those same 10 games but on the road to a Final Four, you can bet there will be a night were two out of Scheyer, Singler and Henderson struggle. What then?

Some nights, and at some point come March, it's gonna be on a Nolan or a Zoubek to produce. And they've tended to disappear on the offensive end at times, more and more lately. IMO, that cannot continue. We can get away with it against NC State and UVA but not against the kind of teams we're going to have to beat to reach the team's ultimate goals. And last night was a prime example.

[gumbomoop]

David McClure is arguably, check that--probably, the single best comprehensive defender on this team. He plays impeccable ball and off-ball defense and has extremely underrated athleticism. He also blocks shots and rebounds very well for his size (6-6 at best) on a team that isn't very big and sometimes struggles on the glass. Most importantly, however, he can successfully guard any position from the 1 through the 4. These are the reasons McClure is on the court and rightfully so. This team needs Dave.

But it's hard to argue that offensively, he poses a problem for Duke. ACC teams know McClure will not shoot the ball and he rarely does anything to prove them wrong. Thus, Duke is almost playing 4 on 5 in many situations. Yes, McClure is a solid finisher and will catch and score the ball when thrown to him. But you can't tell me a defense isn't at an advantage when they're 98.5% sure one of the 5 other players ain't gonna shoot come hell or high water.

The kicker? McClure is better offensively than he gives himself credit for. We've all seen him hit mid-range shots and finish around the rim. But you can tell he doesn't have any type of confidence on the offensive end (unless the shot clock forces his hand) and I believe it hurts this team.

Thus, the conundrum of McClure..

Yes, a thousand times yes. To a perhaps irritating extent, I have posted repeatedly on the virtues of DMc, and so enthusiastically endorse what Classof06 says here. (And what greybeard also posted re DMc.)

With one exception to '06's analysis: as I recently posted on the "Big Man Solution" thread, I'm firmly convinced DMc is our very best defender at the 5. He doesn't just effectively defend the 1-4 positions. Precisely because, as '06 says here, he's our most "comprehensive" [apt phrase!] defender, has "extremely underrated [yes! DMc is now healthy, and it shows!] athleticism, blocks shots [often with his left hand, very intriguing], and rebounds so well [because he blocks out, far better than anyone else on team], he's clearly our best post defender; thus, "comprehensive" indeed.

And kudos to '06, as well, for the kicker paragraph re DMc's lack of confidence offensively. Wasn't it literally the first play of 2d half v. Georgetown that DMc drove into lane for baby jump-hook. He must do that regularly.

[notonemore]

While you find my comments "amusing and laughable", I think they hold merit. Hopefully as a fan of some knowledge, you know very well that when I say a player should play 30 minutes max, it doesn't mean that literally. Ok I said 30 mins max, but it was to make my point about overplaying, and for some reason, I think you know that. I said (and stand by) that no player on this team HAS to play 37 minutes. I realistically would like to see Kyle (or anyone else) play anywhere from 30 to 33 max. Why would you call me out for saying that, and call it laughable and amusing? Are you kidding me? I am baffled by this reaction from anyone, much less a moderator. Seriously Jumbo, very seriously.

Anyway, did you know that many teams (and hopefully we do too) actually monitor playing time? It's true. Some teams use graduate assistants or actual assistants for this very task during games. One of the primary reasons is to keep guys fresh at the end of the game. I would expect you know this, and if you do, how could you all my comments laughable? Unless it was a challenge or just intended as sarcasm. A challenge I will accept, if just sarcasm, I don't really want to get involved with that.

One more thing. In a post I had just put up, I talked about how the last bucket occurred last night. I talked about how you defend in that situation. I now expect you to tell me I had no right to say that either, so if that offends you too, I'm sure I'll hear about it. And if you disagree with my views on how to play defense, unlike you I welcome to hear your ideas on the subject. Heck, I'm even going to ask how you would have played defense in that very situation. Care to share it with me, well us?

[shadowfax336]

Want a perfect example? Let's say the game is tied and your opponent has an inbound pass under their basket. If you are the defender, what is your PRIMARY objective? If you don't know, I will tell you. WITHOUT QUESTION, to make your man beat you with a jump shot, NOT a layup. You keep your body between your man and the basket at all costs. Fundamantal defense is what it's called. It's taught, and I'm not being sarcastic, in little league. To continue with my scenario, let's say your man fakes one way, pushes you off and beats you to the hole for the winning layup. Sound familiar? Well it's this simple, like it or not. Either G simply got beat, was fouled, or was not quite as fresh. I don't know which it was, but I do know it happened. But hey I may be mistaken. After all, I'm only a real DUKE fan.

The problem with this is that it wasn't G that got beat. There was a screen, and Nolan got switched onto Johnson. He didn't step up and Johnson physically away from the hoop, so Johnson was able to use his height advantage. You can argue with how Duke chose to defend it, and you could make an argument that Nolan "was tired" (except he didn't play anywhere near his normal minutes last night) But to blame G's fatigue just shows a lack of understanding of how the defense worked on that play

[notonemore]

Dude: Please use the search function and read the countless threads on this. Please.

Sorry Repo, I'm new. Just joined today in fact. But if it appears in countless threads as you say, then don't you think there is some merit to it?

Dude, a moderator just called me out for saying guys should rest. Is this forum only for those who see it one way. Please tell me I'm wrong Repo. I hope it's not that type of site, or is it? If so, I'll just resign after one day. I readily agree that all is pretty darned good with Duke Basketball, but I've yet to find anything that is perfect. If you know somthing that is, will you let me know?

I must ask you though, can you imagine how boring it would be if we all agreed with one moderator, or one member? It would get old quick.Very quick. But that's how some want it I reckon'.

[notonemore]

The problem with this is that it wasn't G that got beat. There was a screen, and Nolan got switched onto Johnson. He didn't step up and Johnson physically away from the hoop, so Johnson was able to use his height advantage. You can argue with how Duke chose to defend it, and you could make an argument that Nolan "was tired" (except he didn't play anywhere near his normal minutes last night) But to blame G's fatigue just shows a lack of understanding of how the defense worked on that play

First, I did say G had a great game. If I blamed him, how could I say he had a great game? Please, don't put words in my mouth. I said one of a few things happened, and I said I don't know which. That is hardly saying G was to blame. Now I will tell you what I think DID happen, and you can say these words came from my mouth. G was PUSHED, and BIG TIME.


I didn't blame fatigue on THIS play. I said it often plays a factor late in the game, and may have been a factor with Gerald. I never mentioned Nolan, but your description isn't exactly right either. Additionally you are wrong about one important thing, it WAS G who got beat. not saying he was to blame, but he got beat.

Now here is what DID happen. While I don't have the replay in front of me, this is what I saw last night. Nolan was defending SOMEONE (Teague maybe) coming across the lane from the side opposite the ball. He was screened, G saw Nolans man open up and turned his head away from Johnson. When he did, Johnson pushed off and broke to the basket UNCONTESTED. Nolan was fighting off the screen in the lane, several feet from Johnson, who was never his man anyway. He didn't get switched on to Johnson as you describe.

Watch it. G turned his head towards the action in the lane. When he did, Johnson pushed and broke. Period. It was actually an offensive foul, but a smart play on Johnsons part. No way are they going to call that, and when he saw GH turn his head, he took advantage of it. Smart play, game over. Nothing else you can say about it.

And again, please, I didn't say it was G's fault, and I didn't say it WAS Gs fatigue that cost us the game. I said it could havebeen a factor, and it could have been. G was on Johnson, turned his head, Johnson pushed and broke for an uncontested LAYUP. Game over. Case closed. If you think I have a "lack of understanding", you need to watch the replay! And for the record, an apology is not necessary.

[jv001]

First, I did say G had a great game. If I blamed him, how could I say he had a great game? Please, don't put words in my mouth. I said one of a few things happened, and I said I don't know which. That is hardly saying G was to blame. Now I will tell you what I think DID happen, and you can say these words came from my mouth. G was PUSHED, and BIG TIME.


I didn't blame fatigue on THIS play. I said it often plays a factor late in the game, and may have been a factor with Gerald. I never mentioned Nolan, but your description isn't exactly right either. Additionally you are wrong about one important thing, it WAS G who got beat. not saying he was to blame, but he got beat.

Now here is what DID happen. While I don't have the replay in front of me, this is what I saw last night. Nolan was defending SOMEONE (Teague maybe) coming across the lane from the side opposite the ball. He was screened, G saw Nolans man open up and turned his head away from Johnson. When he did, Johnson pushed off and broke to the basket UNCONTESTED. Nolan was fighting off the screen in the lane, several feet from Johnson, who was never his man anyway. He didn't get switched on to Johnson as you describe.

Watch it. G turned his head towards the action in the lane. When he did, Johnson pushed and broke. Period. It was actually an offensive foul, but a smart play on Johnsons part. No way are they going to call that, and when he saw GH turn his head, he took advantage of it. Smart play, game over. Nothing else you can say about it.

And again, please, I didn't say it was G's fault, and I didn't say it WAS Gs fatigue that cost us the game. I said it could havebeen a factor, and it could have been. G was on Johnson, turned his head, Johnson pushed and broke for an uncontested LAYUP. Game over. Case closed. If you think I have a "lack of understanding", you need to watch the replay! And for the record, an apology is not necessary.

After the game Nolan and Gerald both said it was Nolan's responsibility to switch on all screens. I give Nolan credit for standing up like a man and taking the blame for the missed communications. Coach K said it was just a bad defensive play. The call was for the team to make switches on all screens. Nolan just had a bad game. One he will probably not forget. I hope he handles it like Christian did when he missed some big foul shots and Duke lost. He was determined to never let that happen again. And we all know he was probably our best clutch player ever after that low point. So let's hope Nolan has that same mindset. Go Duke!

[-jk]

Are you saying fatigue is NOT a factor in basketball? And for the record, I'm not talking about ONE game, I'm talking about the toll it has on your legs, and for that matter entire body late in the season.

We've hashed and rehashed this particular point, ad nauseum.

A quick question for you: are you suggesting that plus or minus five minutes a game, twice a week, will have a meaningful impact given they practice and play 20ish hours a week? Some do; I personally don't.

I seem to recall that K's staff tracks performance per minute played in real games to get a read on where a particular player's plateau may be, and they work to keep players' minutes below that for any particular game.

Season-long fatigue, though, is something K has suggested he's looking into, going with lighter practices in certain cases.

Welcome to the board. Please take some time to get to know us before judging us.

-jk

[MChambers]

Dude: Please use the search function and read the countless threads on this. Please.
This argument has been made and addressed so many times in the past. Maybe all similar posts should be moved to one consolidated thread.

Also, if you want to say that excess minutes make our players tired at the end of the year, please explain why Coach reached the Final Four 7 out of 9 years at one point in his career.

So there!

[notonemore]

And please know I really appreciate it very much. I want to answer your question sincerely since you asked a legitimate question without sarcasm, about a few minutes of rest per game as opposed to all the practice time. I do in fact think it makes a difference. Very much so. While practices can be intense, top coaches today make sure to not wear kids out in practice sessions. Plus, the hours of practice you talk about is nothing compared to the intensity of a tough ACC, or interleague matchup. Any coach or player will validate this.

In practice, it is not an all out scrimmage. Often, there is no scrimmage at all. Instead, teams will sometimes work on drills, defenses, plays or whatever. In that situation coaches are often talking a lot, giving instruction as players are standing around listening. There is a lot more slow time in a normal practice than in a game against a top 10 opponent. Are practices a walk in the park? Of course not, but it pales in comparison to a game on the road in the ACC, JK. I know you know that, and am only answering your question. Which by the way, was properly asked and certainly worthy of my response.

As far as the fatigue issue being addressed ad nauseum, I'm sure it has, but wasn't aware of it until everyone brought it to my attention. That said, it is what it is. I think, regardless if you are discussing pressure defense, fouls, playing time or whatever and it is a current issue, you shouldn't NOT talk about it. If it is relevant, it should never be put in the closet.

IE; If we were shooting 30% from the free throw line every game, should we NOT talk about it? Of course we should. If it occurs in any given game, it is worthy of discussion.

Now back to the final play last night. I have heard all kinds of scenarios, some said it was Nolans fault and he took responsibility. WHAT? Look at the replay. Let's just be honest here for one time. Gerald was NOT screened, not at all. There was no Wake player near him, except Johnson. Anyway, Gerald was ON JOHNSON before the ball was inbounded. It happened exactly like I described previously, and will do again. Gerald was on Johnson, and actually was positioned slightly towards Johnsons left shoulder (improperly), as opposed to his right. Why do I say improperly, and why was it wrong being on his left shoulder? Because it gave Johnson inside position. LOOK AT THE REPLAY. It clearly validates what I describe. When G turned his head towards the top of the key, he was vulnerable and Johnson made the SMART play to push slightly and break. This left him wide open and NO WAY can Nolan handle Johnson inside. NEVER. Singler came over but it happened so quick NO one could have reacted. It all transpired in about one second. I stand by the basic rule of defense, keep your body between the basket and the defender. Please, before you jump on me, WATCH THE REPLAY. If you think that's not proper technique, read a book on how to play defense.

I will say this too. If anyone thinks Coach K wanted Nolan Smith switching to cover Johnson, you're way off base. That's a dooms day scenario. NO WAY would he want Noilan Smith to intentionally switch on Johnson 2 feet from the basket in ANY situation, let alone that one. I can assure you, Coach is way smarter than that. If not, he has the world fooled. Surely you all know that Johnson wins 99% of the time inside against a point guard. Which does make me ask this question, why was our point guard positioned 3 feet from the hoop anyway, given the ball was being inbounded under their basket? Can someone explain that without sarcasm, because I honestly don't get it?

[Jumbo]

And please know I really appreciate it very much. I want to answer your question sincerely since you asked a legitimate question without sarcasm, about a few minutes of rest per game as opposed to all the practice time. I do in fact think it makes a difference. Very much so. While practices can be intense, top coaches today make sure to not wear kids out in practice sessions. Plus, the hours of practice you talk about is nothing compared to the intensity of a tough ACC, or interleague matchup. Any coach or player will validate this.

In practice, it is not an all out scrimmage. Often, there is no scrimmage at all. Instead, teams will sometimes work on drills, defenses, plays or whatever. In that situation coaches are often talking a lot, giving instruction as players are standing around listening. There is a lot more slow time in a normal practice than in a game against a top 10 opponent. Are practices a walk in the park? Of course not, but it pales in comparison to a game on the road in the ACC, JK. I know you know that, and am only answering your question. Which by the way, was properly asked and certainly worthy of my response.

As far as the fatigue issue being addressed ad nauseum, I'm sure it has, but wasn't aware of it until everyone brought it to my attention. That said, it is what it is. I think, regardless if you are discussing pressure defense, fouls, playing time or whatever and it is a current issue, you shouldn't NOT talk about it. If it is relevant, it should never be put in the closet.

IE; If we were shooting 30% from the free throw line every game, should we NOT talk about it? Of course we should. If it occurs in any given game, it is worthy of discussion.

Now back to the final play last night. I have heard all kinds of scenarios, some said it was Nolans fault and he took responsibility. WHAT? Look at the replay. Let's just be honest here for one time. Gerald was NOT screened, not at all. There was no Wake player near him, except Johnson. Anyway, Gerald was ON JOHNSON before the ball was inbounded. It happened exactly like I described previously, and will do again. Gerald was on Johnson, and actually was positioned slightly towards Johnsons left shoulder (improperly), as opposed to his right. Why do I say improperly, and why was it wrong being on his left shoulder? Because it gave Johnson inside position. LOOK AT THE REPLAY. It clearly validates what I describe. When G turned his head towards the top of the key, he was vulnerable and Johnson made the SMART play to push slightly and break. This left him wide open and NO WAY can Nolan handle Johnson inside. NEVER. Singler came over but it happened so quick NO one could have reacted. It all transpired in about one second. I stand by the basic rule of defense, keep your body between the basket and the defender. Please, before you jump on me, WATCH THE REPLAY. If you think that's not proper technique, read a book on how to play defense.

I will say this too. If anyone thinks Coach K wanted Nolan Smith switching to cover Johnson, you're way off base. That's a dooms day scenario. NO WAY would he want Noilan Smith to intentionally switch on Johnson 2 feet from the basket in ANY situation, let alone that one. I can assure you, Coach is way smarter than that. If not, he has the world fooled. Surely you all know that Johnson wins 99% of the time inside against a point guard. Which does make me ask this question, why was our point guard positioned 3 feet from the hoop anyway, given the ball was being inbounded under their basket? Can someone explain that without sarcasm, because I honestly don't get it?

Anytime you go somewhere in life, it's best to look around, get used to the surroundings, show a little respect, right? So pardon us if we're a bit thrown by the way you've come out firing from your first post. You might want to back off a little bit. You also might want to do some reading before you come to such strong conclusions.
Here (http://www2.journalnow.com/content/2009/jan/29/lapse-defensive-breakdown-dooms-blue-devils/sports-college-team-pages-duke/)is what happened on the final play, straight from the horses' mouths:

And here (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13791&highlight=kyle)is one of 8,000 examples from this board of the way minutes played has been discussed. BTW, Duke got outscored 7-0 when Kyle was out last night. The team doesn't have anyone else who can do what he does and play that position in team's offensive scheme. That's a problem. Thankfully, he's well equipped to play big minutes because he has trained his body to handle it. And you simply ignored every point made in this thread that contradicts your strongly held opinions (like the minutes Wake's top starters played, for instance). That's intellectually dishonest.

[OldSchool]

After the game Nolan and Gerald both said it was Nolan's responsibility to switch on all screens. I give Nolan credit for standing up like a man and taking the blame for the missed communications. Coach K said it was just a bad defensive play. The call was for the team to make switches on all screens. Nolan just had a bad game.

When I watched the play live, I thought Nolan had called out a switch to G to get on Teague but had failed himself to switch quickly enough onto Johnson, and so I thought the mental lapse was primarily Nolan's.

Interestingly, during a break in the action in tonight's game between Clemson and the Virginia Polytechnic Institute, Brent Musberger asked Coach Knight what went wrong on that play, ESPN replayed the footage with Knight on the telestrator.

In Knight's view, the fault was primarily with G in that G failed to properly position himself with respect to his man, Johnson, and the inbounder at the outset of the play, and said it was a very rare mental mistake for a Coach K team to make on a fundamental defensive play.

[notonemore]

Thanks for a slightly subtler reply, and know it is appreciated. But respectfully, I want to ask you one question. Do you disagree with my description of the last play, and how it was covered defensively?

I know you know the game, and I know you are well aware of what a screen is, and so am I. I can tell you, Gerald Henderson was not screened. I know you have watched the replay, and you know he wasn't screened as well.

You call me out for responding the way I did, even after another member told me G was not on Johnson. G WAS on Johnson, and G was beaten, BADLY. This member proceeds to tell me I have a "lack of understanding"? I can assure you Jumbo, your response would have been MUCH more harsh than was mine. We both know it.

You read my analysis of Gs defense on Johnson. If you disagree with one part of it, i'd like to hear from you. Just don't be sarcastic. Make your point, and leave it at that. I feel my description is extremely accurate, and think as a knowledgeable fan, you must agree. If you saw a screener on G, tell me who it was. Fair enough?

[moonpie23]

we can all indulge in conjecture, but a picture is worth a thousand messages on this board..


observe the look on Nolan's face ......he missed it...he owned it.....


nuff said...

[notonemore]

When I watched the play live, I thought Nolan had called out a switch to G to get on Teague but had failed himself to switch quickly enough onto Johnson, and so I thought the mental lapse was primarily Nolan's.

Interestingly, during a break in the action in tonight's game between Clemson and the Virginia Polytechnic Institute, Brent Musberger asked Coach Knight what went wrong on that play, ESPN replayed the footage with Knight on the telestrator.

In Knight's view, the fault was primarily with G in that G failed to properly position himself with respect to his man, Johnson, and the inbounder at the outset of the play, and said it was a very rare mental mistake for a Coach K team to make on a fundamental defensive play.

Not that all those who called me out on my analysis of the final play (and one who said I had had a "lack of understanding") will change their mind and agree with me, it is nice to know that Coach Knight saw it exactly as I described it. Thanks for sharing that with us. I guess both Coach Knight I have a real "lack of understanding" of defensive strategy, huh Shadowfax?

[notonemore]

we can all indulge in conjecture, but a picture is worth a thousand messages on this board..


observe the look on Nolan's face ......he missed it...he owned it.....


nuff said...

Do you not think EVERYONE had that expression? Answer this question moon,
Would you put Smith under the basket in that situation????? And again, watch the replay. Smith wasn't beaten, G was.

[OldSchool]

If anyone thinks Coach K wanted Nolan Smith switching to cover Johnson, you're way off base. That's a dooms day scenario. NO WAY would he want Noilan Smith to intentionally switch on Johnson 2 feet from the basket in ANY situation, let alone that one.

I agree with your points on G not being well-positioned on Johnson and turning his head. I disagree with you about the switch. Teague outruns McClure across the lane heading to the corner, and it appears that Nolan motions to G to cover Teague.

This Duke team switches as much as any Duke team I can remember, and if they can't recover, they live with it and rely on ball pressure to keep the pass from going into the mismatch. Clearly one of the things K likes about Nolan over Greg is that it is not as much of a mismatch if he happens to switch onto someone bigger. If G had been properly positioned and holding Johnson away from the basket before the switch, then at the time of the switch Johnson would not have been 4 feet from the basket.

[Kedsy]

Do you not think EVERYONE had that expression? Answer this question moon,
Would you put Smith under the basket in that situation????? And again, watch the replay. Smith wasn't beaten, G was.

You don't seem to listen very well. Nobody is saying G was screened. Whoever was on Teague lost him, either due to a screen or some other reason; G was supposed to switch onto Teague and Nolan was supposed to switch onto Johnson. Obviously it didn't happen that way.

[Kedsy]

They don't need to be "big-time" options, but more than 2. I wholeheartedly disagree with the comparison to the 05-06 team (my senior year, btw). But, as you saw with that team, having just 2 consistent scorers is not the way to reach your full potential. Remember, JJ Redick and Shelden Williams never made a Final Four without Luol Deng.

None of the past few national champs have relied on two players the way we did last night. I realize it's just one game and the sky is not falling. I'm just saying that Nolan and Zoubek have averaged 7.7 and 5.4 ppg respectively over the past 10 games. Personally, that makes me a little uneasy. Sure, Henderson has exploded over those same 10 games but on the road to a Final Four, you can bet there will be a night were two out of Scheyer, Singler and Henderson struggle. What then?

Some nights, and at some point come March, it's gonna be on a Nolan or a Zoubek to produce. And they've tended to disappear on the offensive end at times, more and more lately. IMO, that cannot continue. We can get away with it against NC State and UVA but not against the kind of teams we're going to have to beat to reach the team's ultimate goals. And last night was a prime example.

I'm sorry if I misunderstood your original post, but it seemed to me you were saying even if Scheyer comes back it's not enough. But if he breaks out of his slump it'll be three players not two, and I think that would be plenty. We average 80 points a game and I don't think we need more offense. I also happen to think that if something happens to one of the big three (or big two, if you prefer) then other guys will step up.

I also don't think our problem last night (if indeed we had any problems) was a lack of offense. I thought we did pretty well against one of the top defenses (statistically, at least) in the nation. I thought our problem (if any) was that we lost a little focus on defense at the beginning of the second half (and then again on the last play, but that wouldn't have mattered if we'd stayed tough for the first part of the second half).

FWIW, last year Memphis' top two scorers (Rose and CDR) scored a higher percentage of their team's points than G and Kyle do for Duke this year (41.3% vs. 39.6%). Nobody else on that team averaged double figures and they came within one missed free throw of winning the national championship. So it's possible this is not as big a deal as some people think.

[notonemore]

You don't seem to listen very well. Nobody is saying G was screened. Whoever was on Teague lost him, either due to a screen or some other reason; G was supposed to switch onto Teague and Nolan was supposed to switch onto Johnson. Obviously it didn't happen that way.

I stand by my analysis, as does Coach Knight. IF we are wrong and you are right, congratulations. I do know what I saw. G OUT OF POSITION, giving Johnson the baseline. If I can't listen (actually read), you can't see. Secondly, G never switched off as you claim, NEVER. He DID however turn his head. He did not as you say, switch. LOOK AT THE REPLAY. Was a switch called by someone? I have no idea. But the instant he turned his head, Johnson broke, the INSTANT, like I have explained about 10 times. Johnson made a great play, though it was still a basic response to what the defender gives you, and beat us. Why don't you give him credit for beating Gerald, and stop trying to prove me wrong. In this case, it's history, on video and there for everyone to see. Watch CLOSELY Kedsy, because you obviously are missing it, though it did happen quickly. I will explain SLOWLY for you what happened, one more time. G faces Johnson prior to the inbound pass. He slides slightly to his right, Johnsons left, still prior to the pass. this was his first mistake. About this time he turns his head towards the breaking Teague coming across the lane, again before the inbounds pass. This was the critical mistake. Why? This put him completely OUT OF POSITION, on Johnsons left side, giving, yes giving him the unguarded step to the rack. This is what happened.

Why is being out of position so important in this case, other than the situation? Because Nolan Smith of all people was in the lane under the basket. As I said earlier, let's hope and pray Coach K did not want THAT matchup. Johnson vs Smith from 1 foot at the buzzer to determine the outcome? I PROMISE (well, HOPE) Coach K is smarter than that. It's a perfect situation if you are a Wake fan, and the LAST matchup we wanted. The LAST. Really Kedsy, it is the very worst matchup we could have asked for, though it never happened anyway. Johnson was contested by Singler and Smith, after the ball left his hand.

I have no idea why you are so determined to prove me wrong. All anyone has to do is watch the replay to see what transpired. I say, GREAT design by Dino, and perfectly executed by Johnson and whoever made the pass. It was the easiest bucket for a win in that situation I have ever seen. Ever. Do you not agree? "Nuff Said" on this subject, because if you don't see it by now, you never will.

[ForeverBlowingBubbles]

I now have much more respect for you guys that have been posting and reading on here for years. wow.

[PutMeInCoach]

It is easy to blame one play for the loss. 33.3% FG percentage, 4-22 on 3pt shots, 9 blocked shots, 15 turnovers to Wake's 11 turnovers. Had Wake not made a few mistakes of their own in the last few minutes we wouldn't be arguing the last play. And Duke did play their way back into the game so I give them credit.

A critical point in the game, and this was called by John Roth on the radio, was from 4 straight trips down court after defensive stops from the 7min to 5 min mark where Duke didn't score. At the 8 min timeout on radio Matthew Lawrence said Coach told them we have plenty of time, we are shooting two free throws from here on out, drive to the basket, lets score at the line. Next play they did, next three we shoot three pointers. Matthew Lawrence said during one of the timeouts Coach has yelled at them pleaded with them, nothing was getting them to respond.

You loose a game for several reasons. Not just the last play. But, does make you sick to allow a lay up on the last play after fighting back to get tied.

Now, my take on the last play is G was on the wrong side of Johnson.

Also, what about the 3 at the end of the first half on the inbounds play. Who was guarding who there?

[Kedsy]

I have no idea why you are so determined to prove me wrong. All anyone has to do is watch the replay to see what transpired.

I'm not trying to "prove" you wrong. If you weren't so intent on arguing you might notice nobody's been arguing with you. First you spent several ranting posts declaring that G wasn't screened, when nobody had said that he was. Now you're snarling that G never switched, when what I said was he was supposed to switch. Why do you think he turned his head? This shouldn't be controversial -- the players said after the game that G turned his head when Nolan called on him to switch but that Nolan was slow to switch onto Johnson.

You can stand by your analysis all you want. What you need to do is stop being so confrontational.

[notonemore]

I now have much more respect for you guys that have been posting and reading on here for years. wow.

Really I am. But can I simply ask you what part of my analysis you disagree with? Elaborate as to what you think happened, since you consider I and Coach Knight are wrong. We may in fact be mistaken, but let's hear your analysis of the final inbounds play. If you prove I'm incorrect, I will readily admit I saw it incorrectly.

[notonemore]

I'm not trying to "prove" you wrong. If you weren't so intent on arguing you might notice nobody's been arguing with you. First you spent several ranting posts declaring that G wasn't screened, when nobody had said that he was. Now you're snarling that G never switched, when what I said was he was supposed to switch. Why do you think he turned his head? This shouldn't be controversial -- the players said after the game that G turned his head when Nolan called on him to switch but that Nolan was slow to switch onto Johnson.

You can stand by your analysis all you want. What you need to do is stop being so confrontational.

If I was confrontational. It just seems to me that all the blame was put on Nolan Smith, and that's unfair. Several people agree with me that G was out of position, and I will stand by that. Look, I love Gerald Henderson. I think he is great. Really, I do. But we all make mistakes and he did, if I may say that. But I think Nolan Smith is getting a bad rap here, being the scapegoat and I for one will take up for him.

I even agree with you Kedsy that a switch must have been called, and that's why G looked around. I thought of that, honestly. But he was already out of position when he turned his head. With Johnson only about 2 steps from the rack, NO way Nolan can cover him in time when he had the opening to the baseline. Why? Because he had the angle..It was all but impossible.

And again, even with all this analysis we must give the Deacons credit. They took advantage of what we gave them. Anyway, sorry for appearing confrontational Kedsy, but I was actually taking up for Nolan. Plus, think I have a pretty good understanding, and I guess I took offense to your remarks of a lack thereof. Thus, an apology is extended. Seriously.

[SupaDave]

FWIW, last year Memphis' top two scorers (Rose and CDR) scored a higher percentage of their team's points than G and Kyle do for Duke this year (41.3% vs. 39.6%). Nobody else on that team averaged double figures and they came within one missed free throw of winning the national championship. So it's possible this is not as big a deal as some people think.

Freaking awesome point. Makes me want to look at all the teams that made it to the elite 8.

[jv001]

If I was confrontational. It just seems to me that all the blame was put on Nolan Smith, and that's unfair. Several people agree with me that G was out of position, and I will stand by that. Look, I love Gerald Henderson. I think he is great. Really, I do. But we all make mistakes and he did, if I may say that. But I think Nolan Smith is getting a bad rap here, being the scapegoat and I for one will take up for him.

I even agree with you Kedsy that a switch must have been called, and that's why G looked around. I thought of that, honestly. But he was already out of position when he turned his head. With Johnson only about 2 steps from the rack, NO way Nolan can cover him in time when he had the opening to the baseline. Why? Because he had the angle..It was all but impossible.

And again, even with all this analysis we must give the Deacons credit. They took advantage of what we gave them. Anyway, sorry for appearing confrontational Kedsy, but I was actually taking up for Nolan. Plus, think I have a pretty good understanding, and I guess I took offense to your remarks of a lack thereof. Thus, an apology is extended. Seriously.

That one play did not beat us, but it sure was in plain sight for everyone to see and comment on. I don't really know who's fault it was, but I do know that Nolan stepped up and took the blame for the play. I usually agree with Coach K 99% of the time, but this is the 1%. I think Zoubek should have been guarding the inbounds pass. Nolan should not have been left under the basket to be easily shot over. With Kyle in that spot it would have been much harder to score. I hate to say the dreaded word but Zone would have been the best way to go. Make them beat you with an outside shot. Go Duke!

[greybeard]

It is easy to blame one play for the loss. 33.3% FG percentage, 4-22 on 3pt shots, 9 blocked shots, 15 turnovers to Wake's 11 turnovers. Had Wake not made a few mistakes of their own in the last few minutes we wouldn't be arguing the last play. And Duke did play their way back into the game so I give them credit.

A critical point in the game, and this was called by John Roth on the radio, was from 4 straight trips down court after defensive stops from the 7min to 5 min mark where Duke didn't score. At the 8 min timeout on radio Matthew Lawrence said Coach told them we have plenty of time, we are shooting two free throws from here on out, drive to the basket, lets score at the line. Next play they did, next three we shoot three pointers. Matthew Lawrence said during one of the timeouts Coach has yelled at them pleaded with them, nothing was getting them to respond.

You loose a game for several reasons. Not just the last play. But, does make you sick to allow a lay up on the last play after fighting back to get tied.

Now, my take on the last play is G was on the wrong side of Johnson.

Also, what about the 3 at the end of the first half on the inbounds play. Who was guarding who there?

This is real interesting stuff. Real interesting. Apparently K did not think that the kid from Wake could keep on making plays at the rim as he had been doing earlier--that his guys could, would find a way to draw a foul aka Scheyer early in the second half when he drove from the left side looking like he was going to take a righty hook and switched to his left.

Seeing this gives terrific insight into K leading the guys into the final stages of a terrific battle. Wow, really enjoyed this. Thanks!

[Kedsy]

Anyway, sorry for appearing confrontational Kedsy, but I was actually taking up for Nolan. Plus, think I have a pretty good understanding, and I guess I took offense to your remarks of a lack thereof. Thus, an apology is extended. Seriously.

OK, apology accepted. I didn't intend to disparage your basketball knowledge in any way, and I don't think I did (though I admit I may have questioned your reading comprehension skills). This can be a tough board for a newcomer; it helps to develop a thicker skin.

[SupaDave]

OK, apology accepted. I didn't intend to disparage your basketball knowledge in any way, and I don't think I did (though I admit I may have questioned your reading comprehension skills). This can be a tough board for a newcomer; it helps to develop a thicker skin.

How can you disparage the knowledge of someone just as great as Bobby Knight? :)

[Jeffrey]

I fundamentally disagree. G was a very talented player who was waiting for it to click. It was all an upward slope for him with a few blips here and there where he showed what he could really do earlier on. He wasn't slumping at all. Jon has actually fallen from a higher level of play in terms of offensive production. He is in what people call a slump.

Hi,

Sorry it took me awhile to respond.... had a Board meeting yesterday.

I believe these are young men still learning ("waiting for it to click") and they're bound to cycle (have slumps). IMO, G is on a major up cycle and, unfortunatley, Jon is currently on a substantial down cyle. Over time, G & Jon's play will shift the other direction. Here's a quote from G on the subject:

“For different guys during the season, guys will be playing great and at different points, guys will be off,” G said. “I’m experiencing that now – I’m very confident on both ends of the floor. I’m playing my best basketball that I’ve played since I’ve been here. I just hope to maintain that and stay consistent.”

In response to your "waiting for it to click" view, I'd say almost all entering Freshman are "waiting for it to click" and that's a process that repeatedly occurs (at least for the most talented who can continue to elevate their game) throughout a player's time in college. IMO, Jon & G continue to work on making it click at a higher level even at this point in their college career. Here's a quote from G on the subject:

“Some players come into college and they just have it – like a [Michael] Beasley or a [Kevin] Durant,” Henderson said. “For most guys, it’s a process. I can just go back to DeMarcus. I looked up to him. When I got here, he wasn’t the same player that he left being. He also had a lot to grow.”

Best regards,
Jeffrey

[Kedsy]

Freaking awesome point. Makes me want to look at all the teams that made it to the elite 8.

Here's a funny one: the top two scorers on last year's UNC team (Hansbrough and Ellington) scored an even higher percentage of their team's points (44.2%) than Memphis' top two, and significantly more than Kyle and G's 39.6% of Duke's points this year.

On the other hand, last year's UNC team turned out to be not so good, didn't they?