NY Post: Duke Says No More St. John's

[gotham devil]

http://www.nypost.com/seven/01252009/sports/college/duke_says_no_more_to_st__johns_series_151917.htm

[DukeCO2009]

Good, it's a silly series--a waste a nonconference game against a team that hasn't been good in seven or eight years and hasn't been great in far longer than that.

[roywhite]

Marvis Linwood Thornton III is sad to hear the news.

An update, in case you were wondering:
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Bootsy-Thornton-5216/stats/

[91devil]

From that article:

'two of the classic regular season games in college basketball history'.

yes, they were two good games. yes, they went down to the wire. yes, St. John's managed to win one of those games.

a bit of overhype, though, no? in the history of college basketball?

[Smitty1911]

Good, it's a silly series--a waste a nonconference game against a team that hasn't been good in seven or eight years and hasn't been great in far longer than that.

I agree. I think a week off like most (all?) other ACC teams seem to take is the best option. I don't think squeezing in another tough OOC game makes sense.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I wonder who we will replace them with. I'm as big of a fan as a week off as K is, we are better off facing some competition that will prepare us for March. Georgetown might be a good one, we beat them up pretty well this year, but they look to be a talented team for some time to come.

[Jumbo]

I wonder who we will replace them with. I'm as big of a fan as a week off as K is, we are better off facing some competition that will prepare us for March. Georgetown might be a good one, we beat them up pretty well this year, but they look to be a talented team for some time to come.

There are three approaches we can take:
1) Week off
2) Tough OOC game
3) Weak OOC game

I'm not in favor of taking the week off. If you're going to use that approach, you might as well schedule a home game against Loyola or someone in the middle of that week, which becomes a glorified scrimmage in the midst of the tough grind that is ACC play. Let a bunch of guys get in the game, work on various weaknesses, etc. If I were coaching, that's what I'd do.

That said, I wouldn't have a huge problem if K went in the other direction, deciding that he'd like a tough OOC test late in the year.

[blazindw]

I also think this has everything to do with the fact we have our annual "home game" in the NYC area and that we probably don't need another game in that area against a team like St. John's that has struggled the past few years. It's better to get that rest and prepare for the last couple of ACC games before the tourney.

[duke74]

http://www.nypost.com/seven/01252009/sports/college/duke_says_no_more_to_st__johns_series_151917.htm

Wasn't this series generated through K's friendship with Mike Jarvis? With Jarvis gone, and the state of the SJU program (albeit on a bit of an uptick), I could have foreseen this.

As a NYer (a Queens boy at that), I liked the series. Tried to get to MSG each time (in fact going in February). I personally will miss it and the banter with all my SJU colleagues at work (I'm just about the only Dukie in my office). But understand the logic here.

[CameronBornAndBred]

That said, I wouldn't have a huge problem if K went in the other direction, deciding that he'd like a tough OOC test late in the year.
I always been under the impression that is exactly what K wants. This is my assumption why the St. John's game has not been renewed, they are not the competition we want.

[Bob Green]

I would prefer to see us add a tough OOC opponent to this slot. I fondly remember the late season games with Arizona, UCLA, and Notre Dame from years past. A tough OOC game late in the season is a great emulator of Sweet 16 and Elite Eight match-ups.

[gotham devil]

I wonder who we will replace them with. I'm as big of a fan as a week off as K is, we are better off facing some competition that will prepare us for March. Georgetown might be a good one, we beat them up pretty well this year, but they look to be a talented team for some time to come.
It's disappointing, but hopefully Kevin White can arrange annual future games in the NY area, the current home of the largest alumni club.

Memphis is supposed to be starting a three-year series with Duke next season.
UConn would generate good ratings.

[Smitty1911]

I would prefer to see us add a tough OOC opponent to this slot. I fondly remember the late season games with Arizona, UCLA, and Notre Dame from years past. A tough OOC game late in the season is a great emulator of Sweet 16 and Elite Eight match-ups.

I think the ACC tourney is a great emulator of the Sweet 16/Elite 8. Our conference schedule is extremely challenging. As much as I'd love to see us w/ annual matchups w/ a UCLA or Kansas, I think it would ultimately hurt us in the NCAAs. If you believe K, fatigue has been a problem in recent years. Take a week (like the Holes are doing now), and recover.

[Bob Green]

I think the ACC tourney is a great emulator of the Sweet 16/Elite 8.

The ACC Tournament is fantastic. However, the difference is we are playing familar teams. The tough OOC opponent prepares us to face a quality opponent we are not familar with.

[hurleyfor3]

As much as I'd love to see us w/ annual matchups w/ a UCLA or Kansas, I think it would ultimately hurt us in the NCAAs. If you believe K, fatigue has been a problem in recent years. Take a week (like the Holes are doing now), and recover.

We played late-season hard nonconference games throughout the 1986-94 run of seven Final Fours. First Arizona, then Ucla then I think we added Temple (good back then) in 1994. Didn't seem to hurt.

[Smitty1911]

The ACC Tournament is fantastic. However, the difference is we are playing familar teams. The tough OOC opponent prepares us to face a quality opponent we are not familar with.

I definitely see your point. Perhaps I'm overly influenced by the past few years where we seemed to hit the wall a little early. It's a trade-off. I would question whether you truly glean enough from that extra game to warrant the lack of rest in the middle of the ACC schedule. Obviously there's no "right" answer, so we'll have to rely on the experts. I think this is a bigger issue for teams like Memphis or top "mid-majors" who don't get steady competition from conference play. I definitely don't see any value in scheduling a weak OOC team.

[grit74]

For years, in Section 8 we would shout "Look out for Bootsie" when St. John's came, or other non-conference teams with a player giving an unexpected burst of excellence

[Highlander]

I think the ACC tourney is a great emulator of the Sweet 16/Elite 8. Our conference schedule is extremely challenging. As much as I'd love to see us w/ annual matchups w/ a UCLA or Kansas, I think it would ultimately hurt us in the NCAAs. If you believe K, fatigue has been a problem in recent years. Take a week (like the Holes are doing now), and recover.

I disagree. The argument has always been by late February, you are playing teams in the conference for the second time, and you aren't in large part seeing anything new. The conf tourney is your third time through some teams, which is even worse. Stepping out a few weeks before the tournament to play a new NCAA worthy opponent in an large arena is a very teachable moment, especially for Freshman who have never played in the tourney. Win, and it's a notch in your belt. Lose and, unlike the NCAA tournament, you don't end your season. Other than dropping a few spots nationally, it doesn't really impact you much at all. Low risk, high reward in my mind.

However, for this to be effective I agree with you that it needs to be a quality opponent, which would be a perennial top 25/NCAA tournament team. There are very few teams in that category, and predicting future records is tough. Just look at Maryland, Kentucky, or Syracuse to see how fast things can change in just a couple of seasons.

There are a number of other Big East teams that would be great matchups, with UConn being one I'd personally like to see.

[Fish80]

It's disappointing, but hopefully Kevin White can arrange annual future games in the NY area, the current home of the largest alumni club.

Memphis is supposed to be starting a three-year series with Duke next season.
UConn would generate good ratings.

Don't expect a series with UCONN any time soon. Let's just say their program is managed a bit differently than ours is managed.

[duke74]

I definitely see your point. Perhaps I'm overly influenced by the past few years where we seemed to hit the wall a little early. It's a trade-off. I would question whether you truly glean enough from that extra game to warrant the lack of rest in the middle of the ACC schedule. Obviously there's no "right" answer, so we'll have to rely on the experts. I think this is a bigger issue for teams like Memphis or top "mid-majors" who don't get steady competition from conference play. I definitely don't see any value in scheduling a weak OOC team.

If I remember correctly, Bootsie Thornton just killed us one year with his lefty jumper from the corner.

[Billy Dat]

Don't expect a series with UCONN any time soon. Let's just say their program is managed a bit differently than ours is managed.

UConn, as long as Calhoun is at the helm. Considering he'll likely step down in the next few years, it would be great to get this scheduled. I don't think K has a problem with UConn and Calhoun..he had him as a guest on "Basketball & Beyond" fairly recently.

I hope we are setting up something with Memphis, that would be a great contrast - the pro factory vs the academic institution (which also, ahem, turns out a few pros)

It would be nice to get the UCLA series going again now that Howland has the Bruins back atop the game. A Pac 10 team would provide a different look. Pitt would be good, too.

Thinking SEC, how about going back to Florida and Billy D?

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I'm not in favor of taking the week off. If you're going to use that approach, you might as well schedule a home game against Loyola or someone in the middle of that week, which becomes a glorified scrimmage in the midst of the tough grind that is ACC play. Let a bunch of guys get in the game, work on various weaknesses, etc. If I were coaching, that's what I'd do.

Isn't that what we just did on Saturday with the Maryland game? :eek::eek::rolleyes::D

I favor a home and home game against a tough OOC competitor. If I had a first choice, it would be Kentucky. We need to learn how to play in Rupp, showered in boos, for all those occasions we play there in the tournament.

[gotham devil]

Isn't that what we just did on Saturday with the Maryland game? :eek::eek::rolleyes::D

I favor a home and home game against a tough OOC competitor. If I had a first choice, it would be Kentucky. We need to learn how to play in Rupp, showered in boos, for all those occasions we play there in the tournament.
Not that the entire ACC plays in a finesse style, but I'd like to see us play a physical, Big East program. Georgetown has become as soft as JT III's chubby gut. Memphis, at least, offers some of the "inner-city" toughness that Coach Pitino has been known to reference.

[calltheobvious]

If I remember correctly, Bootsie Thornton just killed us one year with his lefty jumper from the corner.

Lefty jumper from the corner...off glass.

[Edouble]

Wasn't this series generated through K's friendship with Mike Jarvis? With Jarvis gone, and the state of the SJU program (albeit on a bit of an uptick), I could have foreseen this.

Yes, that was always my impression as well.

Likewise, now that Lavin is gone, I'd love to see the UCLA series renewed if Ben Howland is interested.

[Lulu]

A week off might be best.

But if not, the UCLA series would be great again from a selfish standpoint (might actually get to see Duke in person an extra game every couple years). I would have voted for a series with Stanford before Dawkins took over, but no chance of that now. Duke never heads out west anymore... not that I blame them. Sadly, there just aren't that many teams out here worth playing.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

A week off might be best.

But if not, the UCLA series would be great again from a selfish standpoint (might actually get to see Duke in person an extra game every couple years). I would have voted for a series with Stanford before Dawkins took over, but no chance of that now. Duke never heads out west anymore... not that I blame them. Sadly, there just aren't that many teams out here worth playing.
I certainly don't want to deprive you of a chance to see the Blue Devils, but it is a long darn flight from RDU to the west coast and back for game. Much easier. less tiring travel to stay in the east or midwest. Just food for thought as to why UCLA (or USC) isn't likely

[JasonEvans]

UCLA could be a problem from a travel standpoint. At that point in the season, I don't think flying 2200 miles is a great idea late in the season. This year we play St. John's on a Thursday. If we had to go to LA for that game it would require the kids to leave on Wednesday and get back to school after classes were done on Friday.

I like Memphis. Kentucky would be nice too as there is certainly some history there. From the SEC, Florida is another good choice, though we get down to that state to play FSU and Miami fairly regularly. I think K likes taking us to places where we have alums and where we can establish a bit more of a profile from a recruiting standpoint.

We don't seem to get to the Midwest very often. How about someone like Illinois, perhaps playing the game in Chicago? I could also see a nice series with Ohio State. Texas (try to play the game in Dallas, perhaps?) or even Kansas (if we played in KC) would also be attractive.

I too am glad we are dropping St. John's. We have gotten little out of that series in recent years. I imagine that the folks at CBS and ESPN, who televise many of our non-conference games, may be consulted as to who they think a good opponent would be for a big national game.

Heck, I would not rule out K and Duke thinking really outside the box and putting something radical together that changes the TV game paradigm in some way. Perhaps a made-for-TV event at some central location involving Duke, KY, UNC, Kansas, UCLA, and a couple other powers.

-Jason

[3rd Dukie]

I have wished for years that we would begin a series with Stanford. What better time than now??

[tbyers11]

I have wished for years that we would begin a series with Stanford. What better time than now??

Coach K has stated several times that he does not like to coach against former players/assistants. This is led to the dissolution of the series against Michigan when Amaker was there. Dawkins coaching at Stanford makes this not very likely to happen.

[Tappan Zee Devil]

I have wished for years that we would begin a series with Stanford. What better time than now??

Because K will not willingly play against any of his former assistants.

It is simply not happening

Jim

[Acymetric]

Because K will not willingly play against any of his former assistants.

It is simply not happening

Jim

I believe that the correct version of this is that he won't play against assistants unless they want to. I believe we had a coach at a smaller lesser known school at one point who wanted to play Duke for exposure, and K did it. Someone will know who this was, because there's a 90% chance I read about it here.

[devildownunder]

Don't expect a series with UCONN any time soon. Let's just say their program is managed a bit differently than ours is managed.

I would love to play uconn every year but since I agree that it probably won't happen -- especially as long as the Gtown series is active and competitive -- there are other options.

Just a few off the top of my head:

Syracuse
Pittsburgh
Villanova
Florida
Kentucky (yes, I know I'm dreaming)
Louisville
Oregon
Arizona (Lute is gone)
Michigan State
Gonzaga (TV executives become visibly aroused at the thought of this one, I'm sure)
Kansas
Oklahoma

Or, if we wanted to take on a midmajor, we could do something truly bold and actually do a home and home with one of these:

Butler
College of Charleston
Kent State


I'm sure there are reasons folks could bring up to shoot down any of these possibilities but when it comes right down to it, where there's a will there's a way.

we'll see what happens.

[Wander]

We don't seem to get to the Midwest very often. How about someone like Illinois, perhaps playing the game in Chicago?

I think the Memphis game next year is in Chicago, right?

[rockymtn devil]

I'd like to see K schedule a team that plays a style that is maybe not common the ACC (at least among the highly talented teams) but that we are likely to see in March. Someone like Syracuse who plays a notoriously famous zone or Ohio State who, under Matta, has become a possession team with a strong interior presence.

Duke sees a lot of very talented, fast-paced teams in the ACC. We are more than prepared to face such teams in March. Let's shake it up.

[devildownunder]

UCLA could be a problem from a travel standpoint. At that point in the season, I don't think flying 2200 miles is a great idea late in the season. This year we play St. John's on a Thursday. If we had to go to LA for that game it would require the kids to leave on Wednesday and get back to school after classes were done on Friday.

I like Memphis. Kentucky would be nice too as there is certainly some history there. From the SEC, Florida is another good choice, though we get down to that state to play FSU and Miami fairly regularly. I think K likes taking us to places where we have alums and where we can establish a bit more of a profile from a recruiting standpoint.

We don't seem to get to the Midwest very often. How about someone like Illinois, perhaps playing the game in Chicago? I could also see a nice series with Ohio State. Texas (try to play the game in Dallas, perhaps?) or even Kansas (if we played in KC) would also be attractive.

I too am glad we are dropping St. John's. We have gotten little out of that series in recent years. I imagine that the folks at CBS and ESPN, who televise many of our non-conference games, may be consulted as to who they think a good opponent would be for a big national game.

Heck, I would not rule out K and Duke thinking really outside the box and putting something radical together that changes the TV game paradigm in some way. Perhaps a made-for-TV event at some central location involving Duke, KY, UNC, Kansas, UCLA, and a couple other powers.

-Jason



Can we take from this that you see little value in replacing the St John's game w/a home-home series? Good competition is always welcome but it would be nice, IMO, if we could see the inside of someone new's gym. I know the potential payoffs make this tough sometimes but not everyone has a small arena. Kentucky and Louisville would be willing to play us on their home floors, instead of in some dome somewhere, I'll bet.

[tbyers11]

I believe that the correct version of this is that he won't play against assistants unless they want to. I believe we had a coach at a smaller lesser known school at one point who wanted to play Duke for exposure, and K did it. Someone will know who this was, because there's a 90% chance I read about it here.

I don't know if this is the instance that you were specifically referring to but Duke played Delaware in Cameron in December 1995 when Mike Brey was coach there.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I don't know if this is the instance that you were specifically referring to but Duke played Delaware in Cameron in December 1995 when Mike Brey was coach there.
Helped out Brey's exposure a ton, too.

[geraldsneighbor]

Its sad news for fans in the Northeast who use that trip and Temple to get to see Duke. Now with both of those series cancelled, it'll be banking on the Georgetown and Aeropostale games. I think it'd be good to play a team like Nova who will challenge our guards and give us a challenge at the same time. I don't know how physical of a team you want to play though in Feb when you still have big games on the horizon.

Hell, UNC probably will keep their contract with Rutgers going since thats such a good series.

[Billy Dat]

I don't know if this is the instance that you were specifically referring to but Duke played Delaware in Cameron in December 1995 when Mike Brey was coach there.

I think K sometimes will schedule such games as a favor to that coach, to "put them on the map" so to speak. I remember he scheduled Fairfield when former assistant Tim O'Toole was head coach and that's what it felt like - a boost to a buddy.

[WhiteboardGuy]

Calhoun has said that he is open to a home-and-home with Duke, but that K wants the return game at MSG while he wants it in Hartford. Given that the Huskies would be playing at Cameron, you can understand why Calhoun doesn't want to play Duke at the Garden, which at best for UCONN is a neutral court and at worst is a second road game.

[Coballs]

Calhoun has said that he is open to a home-and-home with Duke, but that K wants the return game at MSG while he wants it in Hartford. Given that the Huskies would be playing at Cameron, you can understand why Calhoun doesn't want to play Duke at the Garden, which at best for UCONN is a neutral court and at worst is a second road game.

Not necessarily so. The UConn fans take always the Garden by storm. My guess is that they would probably outnumber Duke fans. Hartford, however, would play more like at true homecourt.

[dukejunkie]

Maybe K should use this opening to dangle a carrrot in case anybody is debating their future after the season. Isn't Kyle due his "home" game?

If not, it could even be used to help with recruiting. "We can't promise you a starting spot but we can promise you a game at ..."!

It's a shame scheduling has to be planned far in advance.

[JasonEvans]

Can we take from this that you see little value in replacing the St John's game w/a home-home series? Good competition is always welcome but it would be nice, IMO, if we could see the inside of someone new's gym. I know the potential payoffs make this tough sometimes but not everyone has a small arena. Kentucky and Louisville would be willing to play us on their home floors, instead of in some dome somewhere, I'll bet.

I am not saying there is no value in a home-and-home, but I do think it is more valuable to play in the arenas that frequently host NCAA tournament games -- the FedEx Forum in Memphis, Sprint Center in Kansas City, Rupp Arena in Lexington, the United Center in Chicago, and Lucas Oil Stadium in Indianapolis are all perfect examples of places we should play if we can arrange it.

--Jason "we will not be doing a home-and-home with a Mid-Major -- count on it" Evans

[Acymetric]

I don't know if this is the instance that you were specifically referring to but Duke played Delaware in Cameron in December 1995 when Mike Brey was coach there.

Yeah, I think that was what I was thinking of. Thanks.

[Wildling]

I would prefer to see us add a tough OOC opponent to this slot. I fondly remember the late season games with Arizona, UCLA, and Notre Dame from years past. A tough OOC game late in the season is a great emulator of Sweet 16 and Elite Eight match-ups.

I couldn't agree more. I wouldn't mind another matchup with a Big East foe however. I have a lot of friends who are Big East fans, most notably Syracuse, I would love to see them play at the Dome.

[Kdogg]

Yes, that was always my impression as well.

Likewise, now that Lavin is gone, I'd love to see the UCLA series renewed if Ben Howland is interested.

Duke likes to schedule a late season series with a competitive opponent with cache. Former oppenents like ND, UCLA and now St. Johns also offered recruiting opportunties in talent rich areas. I think that rules out series with UK, KU, and Mephis. I'm hoping UCLA is back on the schedule. If Lavin wasn't such a coward they would still be on the schedule.

[devildownunder]

I am not saying there is no value in a home-and-home, but I do think it is more valuable to play in the arenas that frequently host NCAA tournament games -- the FedEx Forum in Memphis, Sprint Center in Kansas City, Rupp Arena in Lexington, the United Center in Chicago, and Lucas Oil Stadium in Indianapolis are all perfect examples of places we should play if we can arrange it.

--Jason "we will not be doing a home-and-home with a Mid-Major -- count on it" Evans

I know the the mid-major home-home isn't happening. It would be great if it did but it won't. Of course, there is the argument that a school like Gonzaga isn't really a mid-major anymore, so we could have one with them. But they still play their big "home" OOC games in Seattle. I actually would trade an extra "ncaa arena" game for a trip to truly hostile road environment any day. I'm just a believer in going into the lion's den when you have a team that can handle it. There isn't anything that toughens up a team mentally any better, IMO. No, I can't prove that. Oh well.

[devildownunder]

I couldn't agree more. I wouldn't mind another matchup with a Big East foe however. I have a lot of friends who are Big East fans, most notably Syracuse, I would love to see them play at the Dome.

Syracuse would seem to be an especially good fit for money and recruiting reasons. The Dome is huge, so we can play them on campus without anyone sacrificing a big gate, both schools have New York-area fan bases AND the dome frequently hosts NCAA tournament games.

Hey, somebody get Jim Boeheim on the phone!

[Bob Green]

....but it is a long darn flight from RDU to the west coast and back for game.

RDU to the west coast and back is a piece of cake. You should try the RDU to Narita run if you desire to experience a "long darn flight." :D

[devildownunder]

Not necessarily so. The UConn fans take always the Garden by storm. My guess is that they would probably outnumber Duke fans. Hartford, however, would play more like at true homecourt.

Gampel Pavilion is only about 20 years old. One wonders why they would have built an on-campus arena so recently that isn't big enough for them to host marquee games there. Seems silly to me.

[roywhite]

Gampel Pavilion is only about 20 years old. One wonders why they would have built an on-campus arena so recently that isn't big enough for them to host marquee games there. Seems silly to me.

See Carmichael Auditorium, Chapel Hill. Built in 1965; started with 8,000 seats, eventually expanded to 10,000; team moved to Smith Center in 1986.

[PumpkinFunk]

Syracuse would seem to be an especially good fit for money and recruiting reasons. The Dome is huge, so we can play them on campus without anyone sacrificing a big gate, both schools have New York-area fan bases AND the dome frequently hosts NCAA tournament games.

Hey, somebody get Jim Boeheim on the phone!

Syracuse would be a great idea... especially given that we wanted them in the ACC, and even moreso: Coach K and Jim Boeheim have a good relationship. It could also be a really good yearly neutral site game in MSG (with 'Cuse, I think MSG is fairly neutral), rather than a home-and-home like the St. John's are now.

[ice-9]

Calhoun has said that he is open to a home-and-home with Duke, but that K wants the return game at MSG while he wants it in Hartford. Given that the Huskies would be playing at Cameron, you can understand why Calhoun doesn't want to play Duke at the Garden, which at best for UCONN is a neutral court and at worst is a second road game.

How about if the venues were Charlotte for Duke's home and MSG for U-Conn's home? That would make things more fair and both are NCAA tourney venues. I'm eager to see Duke play U-Conn regularly.

My wish list:
- U-Conn
- UCLA
- Kansas
- Kentucky
- Florida
- Memphis
- Louisville

[JasonEvans]

Duke likes to schedule a late season series with a competitive opponent with cache. Former oppenents like ND, UCLA and now St. Johns also offered recruiting opportunties in talent rich areas. I think that rules out series with UK, KU, and Mephis. I'm hoping UCLA is back on the schedule. If Lavin wasn't such a coward they would still be on the schedule.

I agree that the "talent-rich recruiting area" thing is a big part of where Duke picks opponents. Heck, that is why Lavin begged out of the UCLA series, he was sick of Duke coming out there, whupping his butt, and then taking all the top California talent.

That said, Memphis is a talent-rich basketball locale. In just the past few years, that ACC has seen highly regarded recruits Leslie McDonald, Elliot Williams, Maurice Miller, and Thaddeus Young from the Memphis area.

-Jason "I would love a series with Gonzaga" Evans

[davekay1971]

A neutral site game against a tournament-caliber opponent would be nice. High profile for recruiting, would prepare both teams for March competition, etc. Kind of like our pre-Christmas MSG game, but closer to tourney time.

[JG Nothing]

There are three approaches we can take:
1) Week off
2) Tough OOC game
3) Weak OOC game


Here is one more option: North Carolina State University in years when we only have one conference game scheduled with them.

[tbyers11]

Here is one more option: North Carolina State University in years when we only have one conference game scheduled with them.

Purdue and Indiana scheduled a "non-conference" game a few years back when the Big 10 schedule only had them facing each other once. It would be cool from a tradition standpoint but with current state of the NCSU program, I'd rather play a higher quality non-conference opponent.

[sagegrouse]

I have scanned most of the messages here and didn't see this comment.

The late season big city/ big arena matchup is mostly about money (as is the early season NYC game). Remember that the men's hoops program supports the entire athletic department.

Moreover, while the match-up guarantees the TV bucks, to fill the arena it needs to be in a city where the Duke alumni fan base is large and enthusiastic or where the opponent can produce a sell-out. So "courting the alumni" is another way of saying, "putting fannies in the seats." I know that consideration works in NY and DC, but I don't know if it extends to Chicago, Philly, LA or Boston. (Actually, judging from the cheers in the GT game, Duke could draw well in Atlanta, but I don't know who the logical opponent would be -- and GT would be really upset.)

Now would K sign up for a game if it really hurt the team? No, of course not. It seems to me he is happy to have a couple of non-conference games to get the team adjusted to playing teams they don't know that well. Therefore, a mid-January and a mid-February game work out just fine.

sagegrouse
'As Deep Throat said to Bob Woodward, "Just follow the money."'





That said,

[jv001]

Yes let's play Villanova and beat the fire out of Taylor King. Play in Madison Square Garden our home away from home. Go Duke!

[Faustus]

As for the Syracuse suggestions, I'm pretty sure Boeheim falls into the category of coaching friends of K that are off-limits for regularly scheduled match-ups (would have been very interesting if Syracuse had joined the conference during expansion as was originally intended).

Just for tradition and sheer interest, I'd love to see a true home and home with Kansas for a game in Allen Fieldhouse. Last time I think Duke played there it was with Quin Snyder and Kevin Strickland and Danny Ferry and Duke slipped out with an overtime win. I'm pretty sure Kansas returned the visit in another season, and have an extremely vague recollection that Duke won that one relatively handily, but I don't trust that memory. I do miss the home and homes we used to have with the marquee name college powers, however. Georgetown suffices for this season and you surely don't want to overdo it with the conference season as draining as it is, but these match-ups are why you play the games in my opinion. These are games we still talk about years later - freshman Laettner missing the critical free throws at the end that could have beaten Sean Elliot's Arizona (is that Duke's only loss at the Measowlands?) and Richard Nixon consoling him afterwards (wonder if he asked Christian what he asked David Frost just before the camera light turned on? Hope not), and I still remember a second half 3 pointer by Quin Snyder there in Allen Field House that hit the back of the rim, bounced about eight feet in the air, and dropped clean through to help our comeback. That must have been late 1980s. On the other hand, I've already forgotten anything about this season's UNC-A game.

[johnb]

To take off from Jason's earlier suggestion:

How about a doubleheader--not a tournament--at an NCAA-type site. So it could be Duke-Kentucky, Notre Dame-UCLA, but the game would be played in Chicago.

[calltheobvious]

UCLA could be a problem from a travel standpoint. At that point in the season, I don't think flying 2200 miles is a great idea late in the season. This year we play St. John's on a Thursday. If we had to go to LA for that game it would require the kids to leave on Wednesday and get back to school after classes were done on Friday.

I like Memphis. Kentucky would be nice too as there is certainly some history there. From the SEC, Florida is another good choice, though we get down to that state to play FSU and Miami fairly regularly. I think K likes taking us to places where we have alums and where we can establish a bit more of a profile from a recruiting standpoint.

We don't seem to get to the Midwest very often. How about someone like Illinois, perhaps playing the game in Chicago? I could also see a nice series with Ohio State. Texas (try to play the game in Dallas, perhaps?) or even Kansas (if we played in KC) would also be attractive.

I too am glad we are dropping St. John's. We have gotten little out of that series in recent years. I imagine that the folks at CBS and ESPN, who televise many of our non-conference games, may be consulted as to who they think a good opponent would be for a big national game.

Heck, I would not rule out K and Duke thinking really outside the box and putting something radical together that changes the TV game paradigm in some way. Perhaps a made-for-TV event at some central location involving Duke, KY, UNC, Kansas, UCLA, and a couple other powers.

-Jason

I happen to know of a spiffy new arena going up, with an owner who would be willing to make a very attractive offer to host such an event. How about a made-for-TV Saturday CBS triple-header involving

Duke
UNC
Kentucky
Texas,
Kansas,
Oklahoma.

There's no doubt in my mind Jerry Jones would turn cartwheels to have the new Cowboys stadium host such an event. You could also turn it into a full weekend deal with two double-headers, in which case UCLA and Indiana could come, too.

[JasonEvans]

To take off from Jason's earlier suggestion:

How about a doubleheader--not a tournament--at an NCAA-type site. So it could be Duke-Kentucky, Notre Dame-UCLA, but the game would be played in Chicago.


I happen to know of a spiffy new arena going up, with an owner who would be willing to make a very attractive offer to host such an event. How about a made-for-TV Saturday CBS triple-header involving

Duke
UNC
Kentucky
Texas,
Kansas,
Oklahoma.

There's no doubt in my mind Jerry Jones would turn cartwheels to have the new Cowboys stadium host such an event. You could also turn it into a full weekend deal with two double-headers, in which case UCLA and Indiana could come, too.

Yup, these are the exact kind of things of which I am thinking. The really lucrative thing would be 4 teams playing a double-header on national TV -- something bigger than just another game of the week on CBS or ESPN.

The big problem is that it would be almost impossible for Duke and UNC to do this at the same time during the ACC season (Jan - March) and the nation considers Duke and UNC to be the top 2 programs in the nation.

But, if you could pull it off so both of us could be off at the same time in the ACC schedule you could do the Duke-UNC invitational where the two schools co-host and invite 2 other storied programs to play against us. Like this year we might invite UCLA and UConn and next year we invite Kentucky and Kansas and so on. Make it star-studded with famous alums showing up and all kinds of pomp and circumstance. It could be huuuuge. Play it in huge stadiums like the Ga Dome and Meadowlands -- places where Duke and Carolina still have big fan bases but where it is a big event to have these two schools in town.

--Jason "thinking outside the box, that is what I am talking about" Evans