Schedule: Why do we play Wake twice?

[wva_iron_duke]

I notice also we only play Virginia once this year. Does this mean we will play unc only once every 6 years?

[hurleyfor3]

We play all the Big Four schools twice this year. The Big Four, in case you didn't know, contains Duke, unc, Wake and Michigan.

[The Gordog]

I notice also we only play Virginia once this year. Does this mean we will play unc only once every 6 years?

Every ACC school plays 5 teams twice and the other 6 teams once for a total of 16 games. 2 of the 5 are called rivals (UNC and *cough* UMD for us) and the other 3 are switched each year on some kind of rotation schedule.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

We play all the Big Four schools twice this year. The Big Four, in case you didn't know, contains Duke, unc, Wake and Michigan.
LOL! You got me there by including Michigan in the Big Four - I stopped reading and started responding after the first sentence. Glad I glanced back at the entire post. I had composed this, which I'll include here anyway.

We only play NC State once this year. carolina and Maryland are our twice every year games. The rest of the teams we play twice or once varies year to year, evening out over a number of years. Seems we always play the tougher teams twice as they move up and down the talent ladder, although we only get Clemson once this year.

And I'm glad to see you have adopted my not capitalizing unc as a sign of disrespect!

[delfrio]

We play all the Big Four schools twice this year. The Big Four, in case you didn't know, contains Duke, unc, Wake and Michigan.

Michigan might win more games if they stuck to the Big Ten.

[Virginian]

Michigan might win more games if they stuck to the Big Ten.

And so would Duke.

I have no desire to go back and check the records, but I suspect that based on the number of Big 10 teams we've beaten in the last five or six years we may have a better won/lost percentage against Big 10 teams than any individual member of that conference. I had a lot of fun earlier this year, after we beat Michigan and Purdue, reminding my Big 10 friends that clearly Duke was the best team in that conference.

[tbyers11]

I notice also we only play Virginia once this year. Does this mean we will play unc only once every 6 years?

Here is the rotating partners schedule (http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/acc/sports/m-baskbl/auto_pdf/model-three-years.pdf) through the 2011 season.

[Virginian]

Every ACC school plays 5 teams twice and the other 6 teams once for a total of 16 games. 2 of the 5 are called rivals (UNC and *cough* UMD for us) and the other 3 are switched each year on some kind of rotation schedule.

You mean we really have to play Maryland twice a year into the future because some knucklehead decided that they and unc are our main rivals?

After Saturday's beat-down, maybe that'll change. I'm sure Md. would be very happy to make that change too.

[crimsondevil]

You mean we really have to play Maryland twice a year into the future because some knucklehead decided that they and unc are our main rivals?

Yes. UMD is only a quasi-rival at best, but the problem is, we only have one real rival. You can make an argument for State or maybe Wake, but are they bigger "rivals" than Maryland? Certainly UMD fans wouldn't say so.


After Saturday's beat-down, maybe that'll change. I'm sure Md. would be very happy to make that change too.

Don't bet on it.

[davekay1971]

The biggest travesty of the unbalanced schedule is that the big four don't play each other twice very year. We should each have the other 3 locked in, every year, as our "rival" schools, rotate in 2 more to play twice, and hit the other 6 once. This is the problem with short term thinking. To count Maryland as our rival just because they were good for a few years in the beginning of this decade?! Above NCSU and Wake, Big Four rivals for the past 50 years?! It was a stupid move and should be undone. I'm sure other schools would complain that the ACC would be behaving in a Tobacco Road-centric manner, which would be true. So what? As a basketball conference, the ACC WAS built around Tobacco Road...and Tobacco Road schools ARE STILL the heart and soul, AND the most consistent performers, of the conference. The ACC has a tremendous basketball history, centered right along route 40. For it to ignore it's own history is just pathetic.

[hq2]

I totally agree with this with regards to the Big Four; these are ancient rivalries that must be preserved. (Does anyone remember when they also played a tournament at the beginning of December?) However, the problem then becomes how to apply this rule to the rest of the conference. Since there is no other corresponding group of schools, to make the rivalry list at three fixed would force the other members to lock in three schools in the same manner. I think they should leave it optional; the schools could choose to have a fixed 3 team rivalry (Big Four) or an optional 3 team home-and -ome schedule, with other teams varying from year to year. I think that would please the most people.

[yancem]

The biggest travesty of the unbalanced schedule is that the big four don't play each other twice very year. We should each have the other 3 locked in, every year, as our "rival" schools, rotate in 2 more to play twice, and hit the other 6 once. This is the problem with short term thinking. To count Maryland as our rival just because they were good for a few years in the beginning of this decade?! Above NCSU and Wake, Big Four rivals for the past 50 years?! It was a stupid move and should be undone. I'm sure other schools would complain that the ACC would be behaving in a Tobacco Road-centric manner, which would be true. So what? As a basketball conference, the ACC WAS built around Tobacco Road...and Tobacco Road schools ARE STILL the heart and soul, AND the most consistent performers, of the conference. The ACC has a tremendous basketball history, centered right along route 40. For it to ignore it's own history is just pathetic.

I don't think that the other schools would complain at all. Duke and UNC tend to win the acc regular season most years and Wake and NCSU tend to be in the top half or higher. If the big four play each other twice each year that means everyone else will only have to play them once. The schools that get screwed in this scenario are Wake and State because they end up with tougher schedules then the rest of the non Duke/UNC crowd.

[bdh21]

And so would Duke.

I have no desire to go back and check the records, but I suspect that based on the number of Big 10 teams we've beaten in the last five or six years we may have a better won/lost percentage against Big 10 teams than any individual member of that conference. I had a lot of fun earlier this year, after we beat Michigan and Purdue, reminding my Big 10 friends that clearly Duke was the best team in that conference.

We have at least 3 Big 10 losses in the past 6 years...

2004 vs. Purdue (Great Alaska Shootout)
2005 vs. Michigan State (Sweet 16)
2008 vs. Michigan

[TheBrianZoubekExperience]

I don't know that they'll ever change it but I'd like to see us always play state and chapel hill and have the three teams be considered each other's rival. Just seems the most appropriate to have 3 schools so close together be the rivals.

[Highlander]

You mean we really have to play Maryland twice a year into the future because some knucklehead decided that they and unc are our main rivals?

After Saturday's beat-down, maybe that'll change. I'm sure Md. would be very happy to make that change too.

Yeah, problem is that it would mean the ACC would have to switch everything around for other teams as well. We couldn't get Wake or NCSU as a permanent partner without one of those schools dropping one of their pairs as well, which throws the whole thing out of kilter.

Personally I don't have a problem with Maryland. After all, UNC has been feasting on NCSU for years, and they haven't been competitive since Sendek's middle years.

[jjasper0729]

i came up with a way to schedule everything so that everyone was balanced out but it required an 18 game conf. schedule and a grouping of 3 "divisions" (although only for scheduling sake, not for standings) in order to pull it off... might have to dust it off again and get other opinions. not that it would matter or make a difference, but it's fun to speculate

[Rich]

Does anyone have a list of all of the "rivals" for each ACC school? I'm sure some of them are totally fabricated and make no sense.

[roywhite]

i came up with a way to schedule everything so that everyone was balanced out but it required an 18 game conf. schedule and a grouping of 3 "divisions" (although only for scheduling sake, not for standings) in order to pull it off... might have to dust it off again and get other opinions. not that it would matter or make a difference, but it's fun to speculate

One fairly natural grouping for 3 divisions is:

Northern (BC, MD, UVa, VaTech)
Big 4 (DU, NC, NCSU, Wake)
Southern (Clem, GaTech, FlSt, Miami)

With more games in these regions, it would reduce travel somewhat also.

Just my opinion but such an arrangement would be an improvement over current scheduling

[jv001]

LOL! You got me there by including Michigan in the Big Four - I stopped reading and started responding after the first sentence. Glad I glanced back at the entire post. I had composed this, which I'll include here anyway.

We only play NC State once this year. carolina and Maryland are our twice every year games. The rest of the teams we play twice or once varies year to year, evening out over a number of years. Seems we always play the tougher teams twice as they move up and down the talent ladder, although we only get Clemson once this year.

And I'm glad to see you have adopted my not capitalizing unc as a sign of disrespect!

I cannot even bring my self to capitalize the players, former players and coaches names. Yes and he got me too by including Michigan in the Big Four. I agree with those that say we should always play Wake, NCSU and unc every year. Those schools plus Duke University will always be the Big Four.Go Duke!

[geraldsneighbor]

Basically all of them are geographical. That GT-Wake rivalry is fierce.

[fuse]

One fairly natural grouping for 3 divisions is:

Northern (BC, MD, UVa, VaTech)
Big 4 (DU, NC, NCSU, Wake)
Southern (Clem, GaTech, FlSt, Miami)

With more games in these regions, it would reduce travel somewhat also.

Just my opinion but such an arrangement would be an improvement over current scheduling


Count me in the camp that the ACC should expand the schedule for a home and home for everyone every year.

That said, in order to be the best, you have to beat the best, and I believe we are poised to take care of business and focus on what our Duke team can do instead of worrying about who plays who.

[jjasper0729]

One fairly natural grouping for 3 divisions is:

Northern (BC, MD, UVa, VaTech)
Big 4 (DU, NC, NCSU, Wake)
Southern (Clem, GaTech, FlSt, Miami)

With more games in these regions, it would reduce travel somewhat also.

Just my opinion but such an arrangement would be an improvement over current scheduling

such was the region list that I had come up with. I'll have to find the breakdown of how it scheduled out, but basically, you play everyone in your group twice a year every year and then it rotates between the other two who you play teams home and home vs. home or away.

[arnie]

Appears to be an easier schedule for Duke in 2010 and 2011. The teams we place twice on a rotating schedule should be easier than normal (only play Wake once each year) and Maryland (one of our primary partners) will have completely disintegrated by then.

[DU Band Prez 88]

One fairly natural grouping for 3 divisions is:

Northern (BC, MD, UVa, VaTech)
Big 4 (DU, NC, NCSU, Wake)
Southern (Clem, GaTech, FlSt, Miami)

With more games in these regions, it would reduce travel somewhat also.

Just my opinion but such an arrangement would be an improvement over current scheduling

Agree 100% with this grouping; it makes a lot more sense!

- Thus, Duke would have 6 games vs. the other Big Four schools.
- This leaves Duke with 10 games to play against the other 8 schools. The ACC would again develop a "rotating partner" schedule, so that of these remaining 8 schools, each year Duke would play home & home vs. 2 schools, and one game vs. the remaining 6 schools.

In addition to ensuring that all Big Four schools always play each other twice, the Northern & Southern divisions have some good traditional rivalries such as MD vs UVA, VT vs. UVA, FSU vs. Miami, perhaps Clemson vs. GT -- thus ensuring a home & home series for these rivalries each year.

Additional advantage is that this would further help reduce travel costs - all Big Four teams are going to bus to the opponent's home arena, and many of the other schools (Clem/GT, MD/UVA) would be able to do so as well.

[blazindw]

Does anyone have a list of all of the "rivals" for each ACC school? I'm sure some of them are totally fabricated and make no sense.

It was referenced in this link:


Here is the rotating partners schedule (http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/acc/sports/m-baskbl/auto_pdf/model-three-years.pdf) through the 2011 season.

Here they are though:

BC - Miami, Va. Tech
Clem - Ga. Tech, FSU
Duke - UNC, Maryland
FSU - Miami, Clemson
GT - Wake, Clemson
UMd. - Duke, Virginia
Tha U - FSU, BC
UNC - Duke, NC State
NCSU - NC State, Wake
UVa - Va. Tech, Maryland
VT - Virginia, BC
WF - NC State, Ga. Tech