MBB: Duke 73, NC State 56 Post-Game Thread

[Jumbo]

Discuss ...

[Wildling]

Pitiful help defense, and the offense wasn't much better. Henderson was the only reason we won this game. Duke made NCSU look good tonight.

[JDev]

That is as misleading a final score as I have seen in a while. For a long stretch it seemed NCSU got every loose ball and every 50/50 rebound. Duke needed a second half 1985 Villanova championship game-type shooting percentage to pull it out. Once again Duke's D carried them until the offense caught up. Duke's defense didn't seem quite as strong as it had lately for most of the game, then all of a sudden they start turning NCSU over and actually getting points out of it, and NCSU finishes the game in the 50's.

[CDu]

Ugly first half, then we couldn't miss in the second half. Strange game. Great defense by McClure, great offense by Henderson. Not sure what happened to the team in the first half and early in the second half, but it seems like we couldn't catch a break. It didn't help that we didn't do much creating either. Henderson corrected that in the second half for us.

[COYS]

I meant to post this on the in game thread, but does anyone know why Elliot got no burn tonight?

Anyway, this was a good win tonight, even if the offense hasn't come around yet. If Jon can get going, though, that will be a huge help. The defense was great, as usual, notwithstanding perhaps a few too many easy baskets. Still, holding a team to 56 points will always give us a chance to win, even when our offense isn't going well. If we can get our offense to the level of our defense, we will be unbeatable.

[jv001]

A good 20 mins of offense but then the our defense began to fold. We were letting Costner drive at will. We should have double teamed him and made him give it up. I thought that Costner and McCauley were going to beat us. Thank heaven Smith and Henderson made some big shots. Dave played well once again in Zoubs spot. Jon hit a big 3 at the end. Should be a fun week in practice. Go Duke!

[RelativeWays]

Disheartening to see Zoubs miss that easy putback at the beginning of the game and he never recovered. Our offense has not been the same since Nolan hurt his knee and our post players, who were playing pretty well, can't seem to buy a bucket. The Wake game is going to be a really interesting game as it will be a true test to see how well we can hang with an explosive offense. We cannot be sloppy against them of we will be shown the door at LJVM really quick.

[Wildling]

I meant to post this on the in game thread, but does anyone know why Elliot got no burn tonight?


My guess is that he looked completely lost on defense against Georgetown. And I am assuming practice didn't go any better for him.

[geraldsneighbor]

If your keeping score at home that's 3 straight games vs NC St we trailed at half. G was a star. We just looked disinterested in the first half. I don't think we woke up till inside 14 minutes to play. Really fortunate to leave with a W though when you come out that flat.

A win is a win folks. Take them how you can get them.

[FireOgilvie]

I think you are right. I think this will be a lot like the game at CIS last year. State will go up early, and hold a lead for a good while. But in the end, I think Duke's depth will prevail.

4 of the Wolfpack's 5 losses were decided in the final 2 minutes. And in the loss to Clemson, they were tied with about 10 minutes to play, and Clemson pulled away late in the game.

So State could EASILY be 15-1 right now. But they do not finish well. They did have a great finish against GT on Saturday, but that was it.

They do not hold leads well at all. Whether its the East Carolina game, or the Florida State game.

So I think State will hold a halftime lead, and keep that lead for the first 5 or 7 minutes of the second half, but Duke is much deeper and does not lose in Cameron Indoor Stadium.

I like to Duke to win, but they better watch out, because State is not going to role over in this game.


Wow. Good call.

[JDev]

I apologize if this has been mentioned in the in-game thread already, but I haven't read it. Steve Martin was just awful calling the game tonight. He used incorrect names and attributed incorrect players many times, as well as misremembering previous sequences. I would have much preferred hearing the comedian Steve Martin call the game.

[godukecom]

Again, I was worried at how Duke relied on the 3 to turn the tide of the game. Without some of those timely 3s Duke doesnt win this one IMO. If Duke has a march-esq shooting game in march... well, anyway, GO DUKE!

[Saratoga2]

With the game on Raycom, I couldn't get a TV feed. I would really appreciate a dispassionate anaysis of what happened out there. Scoring so poorly in the first half and then winning by 17 seems odd. Who played well and who didn't? I can see Henderson had a good scoring game. I can also see we held them to 56 points, so the defense must have been fairly good.

[BlueintheFace]

I miss Scheyer...

[huied]

If I didn't follow along in the snrubchat I would have thought Nolan played a great game and we beat the crap out of State.

Nolan was pretty ineffective except for that little stretch of solid D and those huge 3's. Very weird game. It seemed like we were tied, and then all of a sudden we're up 17.

Regardless, I'll take it! Next play!

[COYS]

My guess is that he looked completely lost on defense against Georgetown. And I am assuming practice didn't go any better for him.

Thanks. I just wanted to make sure there wasn't an injury of some kind or something.

[geraldsneighbor]

I apologize if this has been mentioned in the in-game thread already, but I haven't read it. Steve Martin was just awful calling the game tonight. He used incorrect names and attributed incorrect players many times, as well as misremembering previous sequences. I would have much preferred hearing the comedian Steve Martin call the game.

Greg Zoubek plays for us?

[Travi_K]

Great Defense paid off at the end of the game but it was pretty fustrating at certain times. 33 mins of the game that is

Gerald Henderson looked pretty NBAish

If I had to watch that stupid Clyde Drexler commercial one more time, I was going to go insane. Their should be a man law on how many times they can play a commercial in one game.

[houstondukie]

19-3 run by Duke in the last 8 minutes of the game. Won by 17.

Henderson was brilliant, on both ends of the court.

McClure was great as well.

Quiet 17 for Singler.

[JDev]

Duke shot 77% in the second half.

[Papa John]

Greg Zoubek plays for us?

Didn't you know? He's a dangerous shooting point-center who gets whistled for a lot of fouls...

[huied]

Probably similar to EarlJam's potato chips, we turned it around once I pulled my blue Duke shirt out of the laundry basket. I usually don't wear dirty shirts, but if this keeps up I'll never wash this thing! :p

I also switched to this shirt before the second half of FSU. It's beginning to look down right scientific!

[mickeysgotagun]

For just once, I'd like to see Duke play a brilliant 40 minutes, not 10 or 20.

[Wildling]

With the game on Raycom, I couldn't get a TV feed. I would really appreciate a dispassionate anaysis of what happened out there. Scoring so poorly in the first half and then winning by 17 seems odd. Who played well and who didn't? I can see Henderson had a good scoring game. I can also see we held them to 56 points, so the defense must have been fairly good.

If you throw out the last 3 minutes of the game which to me looked like NSCU just gave up, this was an extremely close game. Very sloppy offense, and sloppy defense. Both teams played better in the 2nd half, I think Duke shot almost 75% in the second half. Henderson was unstoppable, and Nolan came up big with some 3's when we went on a little run to take the lead.

As for the defense, it was great man to man defense. As soon as someone got beat, everyone forgot what help defense was about. I hardly saw anyone rotate over when someone got beat down low. I don't think it is a cause for concern for the future, a very easy fix, but tonight it seemed once the offensive player broke their man down, it was watch and hope for a miss.

That's my summary for ya :)

[should_be_working]

Almost looked like we were overlooking this game, don't know why, do we have a big game this weekend or something?? ;)

Bad first half, good second. Jon will come around. Good game for Greg, great game for Henderson. This game scared me because of what comes after it, but it was nice to see us pull it together and come out with a win.

[godukecom]

Probably similar to EarlJam's potato chips, we turned it around once I pulled my blue Duke shirt out of the laundry basket. I usually don't wear dirty shirts, but if this keeps up I'll never wash this thing! :p

I also switched to this shirt before the second half of FSU. It's beginning to look down right scientific!

I too changed into my duke shirt and Hoody at halftime... I forgot to change into them after I ran this afternoon. Big mistake

It can be proven, IMO

[Travi_K]

I apologize if this has been mentioned in the in-game thread already, but I haven't read it. Steve Martin was just awful calling the game tonight. He used incorrect names and attributed incorrect players many times, as well as misremembering previous sequences. I would have much preferred hearing the comedian Steve Martin call the game.



Yes I always enjoy watching the game in Cameron Indoor Fieldhouse. I was also not aware of what an impact Koubek had on the Duke program, but many announcers do this.

[wolfpackdevil]

For the 5th time this year NCSU didn't finish.

For some reason Coach Lowe pulled Costner, McCauley, Degand, Williams and Fells out with about 10 minutes left.

He put them back in with about 5 left, but by then it was a 7 point game.

State had a 4 point lead when they came out.

Duke shot unbelievably well in the second half.

I think they were something like 17/22, and 6/7 from field goals (2's and 3's) in the second half.

State probably should have won this game, if duke didn't shoot lights out in the second half.

Strong win for the Devils, but they need to play better if they think they can go into LJVM and beat WF

[KyDevilinIL]

Loads of work to do after this one. Hard to feel too optimistic going forward, because we kinda won despite ourselves, IMO. Miserable first half, ludicrously hot second half. Can't count on 20-for-26 shooting too often if we hope to be in this for the long haul.

I hope and pray Jon gets his shot back, because right now we're getting points from basically two guys. I don't know if we're going to see much from Zoubs and Lance anymore; they've sort of disappeared.

Ugh. An ACC win is an ACC win, and many will spin this all sorts of ways, but we should be starting to hit a stride about now. But we're just sort of grinding, save for a lights-out second half tonight.

I dunno. Kind of bummed a little after this one. At least as much as possible after a win.

[Billy Dat]

Weird game - we go 30 minutes looking like we are an average defensive team (the offense wasn't too good either) and then we look like the 16-1 Duke team over the final 10. In this case, though, it kind of felt like our offense bailed out our defense...once G started hitting shots and Nolan hit those back to back 3s, the defense suddenly came to life as if it had a mind of its own, "Hey, I've been terrible and we're winning, imagine if I actually start playing, we may win big"

-G continues to display the kind of offensive game we've all been dreaming about for 3 years. Let's hope he keeps it up. As others have said, they way he's been playing kicks us up a few notches. We won't really know about our "title-worthiness" until we square off against our friends down 15-501 and I-85, but we're much more of a player in that equation with G playing the way he has been playing.

-The way their bigs were driving on us was maddening. It took us waaaaay too long to adjust.

-McClure was a real defensive spark. He must look at the basket just a little more then he currently does. They leave him so open that it feels like two dribbles and he can FLUSH. But, I'm not going to complain about him tonight, he did too many good things (and has been on a nice run of solid play for the past several games)

-I thought Nolan gave us a real lift during our big run. He can be a real scorer for us, especially when one of the big 3 is off. Speaking of which...

-It's too easy to focus on Scheyer's scoring, or lack of. He still plays all the big minutes and finds other ways to contribute. I was waiting for his O to show itself and then he hits that 3 down the stretch. I am not worried about him.

-The small line-up got it done...we didn't get much from Z/Lance/Miles. That is an area that I'd like to see improve...and soon.

[COYS]

For just once, I'd like to see Duke play a brilliant 40 minutes, not 10 or 20.

I certainly understand your sentiment and agree that it would be great if Duke played brilliantly for 40 minutes every single night. But I have to say that I would much prefer us to say that Duke played it's best basketball in March and not early January. If we have to lean on our defense while our offense sorts itself out, that's fine with me. And no, the defense wasn't perfect tonight, either, but at the end of the day we got it done when it counted. Even Jon, who had a truly dismal night from the floor, stepped up and hit a big shot late in the second half when we were going on that run that put the game out of reach.

Last year, we had an offensive Juggernaut of a team that had trouble winning when the shots weren't falling. This year, we have a defensive juggernaut that keeps itself in the game at all times and usually scores enough points to win. Jon's shot will come back. We'll gain more offensive fluidity as the season progresses. Overall, I like where we are and can't complain too much about this game.

[OldPhiKap]

^Billy Dat: good nail.

[Wildling]

-The small line-up got it done...we didn't get much from Z/Lance/Miles. That is an area that I'd like to see improve...and soon.

Amen!

[Papa John]

With the game on Raycom, I couldn't get a TV feed. I would really appreciate a dispassionate anaysis of what happened out there. Scoring so poorly in the first half and then winning by 17 seems odd. Who played well and who didn't? I can see Henderson had a good scoring game. I can also see we held them to 56 points, so the defense must have been fairly good.

Physical game... Tough D played on both sides of the ball... We missed a lot of open looks in the first half and looked somewhat discombobulated at times... State seemed to get every loose ball [I would love a stat on how many times a loose ball bounced off one of our guy's heads and into a State players' hands tonight] for a long stretch from about halfway through the first half through about the 10-minute mark in the second half...

G was frustrated by the double-team in the first half, but completely took over the game a few minutes into the second half... Singler was strangely quiet in the first half but turned it on about 5-7 minutes into the second stanza... Greg gave some solid minutes in the first half when we needed someone other than G to step up... Zoubs had a frustrating night... Nolan continues his sloppy play, but is putting in solid effort--I wonder how much that knee is bothering him... Dave was his usual defensive whiz and made some nice plays on the offensive end late in the game [he is going to need to roll off picks and go to the rack more on offense to burn teams that play off him to double-team G and Kyle--did a nice job of this late in the game which led to a slam and a kick out to Scheyer for a 3]... Scheyer continues his Arctic slump, but hit a couple of key late baskets to push the lead past the point of no return...

We survived a night when key guys were off their game... G is really learning to take over a game when we're out of sync... Costner on State in the first half was hitting some shots that you'd have to call beforehand if you were playing a game of horse--he'd throw it up in the direction of the hoop and it would always seem to inexplicably go in the basket...

That's all I can think of... I think we were clearly out of sync, but worked through it... These games will help us later in the season...

[FireOgilvie]

I was happy to see Plumlee in there, but then he got scored on a few times, couldn't rebound, and made an off-the-ball foul.

Zoubek and Thomas need to ATTACK the rim. Both of them catch and gather, bringing the ball down to their waist. They don't go up with any power and get it blocked or stripped. I want to see some aggressiveness!

[Jumbo]

Probably similar to EarlJam's potato chips, we turned it around once I pulled my blue Duke shirt out of the laundry basket. I usually don't wear dirty shirts, but if this keeps up I'll never wash this thing! :p

I also switched to this shirt before the second half of FSU. It's beginning to look down right scientific!

Now make sure you save that shirt for March -- we don't want to exhaust it with too many minutes beforehand! ;)

[Travi_K]

I think we've learned this year that this team looks pretty good against good teams and wins (aside from Michigan) and this team looks not as good against teams we are supposed to beat and wins. I think their is a lot to be happy about. We just beat George Town and held another team in the 50's. Most games we are going to take advantage of the 9 shots to 0 shots we had to start the game.

[Jumbo]

If you throw out the last 3 minutes of the game which to me looked like NSCU just gave up, this was an extremely close game. Very sloppy offense, and sloppy defense. Both teams played better in the 2nd half, I think Duke shot almost 75% in the second half. Henderson was unstoppable, and Nolan came up big with some 3's when we went on a little run to take the lead.
As for the defense, it was great man to man defense. As soon as someone got beat, everyone forgot what help defense was about. I hardly saw anyone rotate over when someone got beat down low. I don't think it is a cause for concern for the future, a very easy fix, but tonight it seemed once the offensive player broke their man down, it was watch and hope for a miss.

That's my summary for ya :)

Disagree on the defense. There were a few mistakes, for sure, but you don't hold a team to 56 points in a game where you "forget what help defense was about."

[Jumbo]

Almost looked like we were overlooking this game, don't know why, do we have a big game this weekend or something?? ;)


Uh, Maryland? :confused:

[jv001]

--
-
-The small line-up got it done...we didn't get much from Z/Lance/Miles. That is an area that I'd like to see improve...and soon.

It looks like the combo #5 position has hit a wall. Zoubs began the game fumbling a pass that should have been an uncontested layup and then he gets two shots blocked. Those last two just shows his lack of leaping ability. His defense was avg at best. Lance was beaten down court a couple of times by his man and just seems to not be able to get a rebound. Miles got a few mins and if he has a good week of practice he could get more against the Twerps. Greg had a good game but let his man beat him off the dribble a couple of times. Nolan's play in the 2nd half was critical to our win. Kyle had foul trouble most of the game and did not have his best game. Gerald had a great game 21 pts, 7 rbs, 5 steals. He's playing the best basketball of his career. Go Duke!

[Bob Green]

I listened to the game on the radio and my take is we put together a great last 10 minutes to win a typically tough ACC game. NCSU didn't roll over as no ACC team is going to roll over. You have to win these tough games and tonight our Blue Devils got the job done. I'm happy!

[arnie]

I was happy to see Plumlee in there, but then he got scored on a few times, couldn't rebound, and made an off-the-ball foul.

Zoubek and Thomas need to ATTACK the rim. Both of them catch and gather, bringing the ball down to their waist. They don't go up with any power and get it blocked or stripped. I want to see some aggressiveness!

Zoubek and Thomas simply haven't developed and now they are in the middle of their junior year. Without any consistency from either of them, we're probably better off with Dave M playing more minutes in the post - but it doesn't bode well for advancing in March.

[mike88]

For the 5th time this year NCSU didn't finish.

For some reason Coach Lowe pulled Costner, McCauley, Degand, Williams and Fells out with about 10 minutes left.

He put them back in with about 5 left, but by then it was a 7 point game.

State had a 4 point lead when they came out.

Duke shot unbelievably well in the second half.

I think they were something like 17/22, and 6/7 from field goals (2's and 3's) in the second half.

State probably should have won this game, if duke didn't shoot lights out in the second half.

Strong win for the Devils, but they need to play better if they think they can go into LJVM and beat WF

I thought that Coach Lowe was just trying to get them a couple minutes of rest before the 8 minute TV time-out, but he left his subs in way too long. Maybe that would work at home, but it made no sense for them on the road - it just gave Duke a chance to build a working margin and confidence, and soon therafter the game was decided.

Some other thoughts:

1) Cameron was pretty quiet tonight until the last 10 minutes. Most of the seats were filled, but the crowd had a hard time sustaining energy.

2) I thought Greg gave us a great spark offensively in the first half. Until Jon picks up his shooting, we really need Greg as another outside threat. I wonder if K will consider starting Greg with Nolan, and bringing Jon off the bench in the 6th man role to see if that can help Jon get going offensively.

3) It is great to see Gerald assert himself and basically carry the team in several games this year- that stretch of baskets in the second half was very NBA-like in its efficiency.

4) We are a pretty good team when we hit shots!

[FireOgilvie]

NC State - 56 points in the game
Duke - 51 points in the 2nd half

Our offense is pretty amazing when we get it going like that.

[Billy Dat]

RE: Z/Lance/Miles

While I want to see the three headed beast improve, I want to qualify that comment by saying it all depends on the match-up. Obviously, tonight we were better with the small line-up. Granted, when we went small I think Lowe failed to effectively counter - I think they potentially could have killed us running high/lows with Costner/Fells and McCauley. For much of the time down the stretch, they had Costner set-up far outside the 3 point line.

But, I do think that against teams with skill at all positions, like Wake and UNC, we're going to need the three headed beast to be more of a presence. I'd think that the guards on those teams would find a way to get their bigs involved. But, we can only judge what we've seen so far...we've held our own against size thus far. Until we see otherwise, we should continue to assume that we'll do well in the future.

[BlueintheFace]

Here's a little experiment:

Take a deep breath ..... close your eyes ..... now imagine Gerald, Kyle, and Jon are ALL playing well in the same game.... are you smiling?.... Me Too.... I can't wait.

This game is further evidence that the light switch has gone off in G's head. Wahoo!

[BlueintheFace]

I thought Greg gave us a great spark offensively in the first half. Until Jon picks up his shooting, we really need Greg as another outside threat. I wonder if K will consider starting Greg with Nolan, and bringing Jon off the bench in the 6th man role to see if that can help Jon get going offensively.

My first thought when I read this was... are you kidding me, that is stupid? Then I thought about it for a second. That might be an interesting SHORT-TERM change to consider... maybe just for a game to shake him out of whatever rut he might be in mentally. K has been known to do such things from time to time.

[Billy Dat]

RE: Scheyer

I don't know, the coaches thought enough of his play to keep him in there for 30 minutes (second most on the team). He does much more then score, we need Jon on the floor.

[mike88]

RE: Z/Lance/Miles


But, I do think that against teams with skill at all positions, like Wake and UNC, we're going to need the three headed beast to be more of a presence. I'd think that the guards on those teams would find a way to get their bigs involved. But, we can only judge what we've seen so far...we've held our own against size thus far. Until we see otherwise, we should continue to assume that we'll do well in the future.

While I would love to see each of them improve, I think we can be quite successful this year if Miles, Lance, Brian, and Dave together give us 50 minutes of decent basketball (good defense, rebounding, and not too many turnovers) per game. The distribution of minutes may vary but if we can get 50 minutes, that will allow the other 5 key players to average 30 each (with Paulus getting a little less, and Gerald / Kyle getting a little more).

[Acymetric]

Did anyone else notice Z making several great passes? One between his legs (forget who it was to, but they ended up wide open and missed) and one under the basket handoff to Henderson I believe.

The offensive struggles didn't bother me much, but I couldn't believe how many rebounds slipped through the player's fingers.

I don't know what it looked like on tv, but it seemed like a pretty physical game tonight...are our refs trying to change the perception that we aren't a physical league?

[dukelifer]

For just once, I'd like to see Duke play a brilliant 40 minutes, not 10 or 20.

They have the whole postseason to do that;) The goal is to win. Having a brilliant 5 minutes at the end of a close game will win most games. That is what happened tonight.

[phaedrus]

Disagree on the defense. There were a few mistakes, for sure, but you don't hold a team to 56 points in a game where you "forget what help defense was about."

We did let NC State score 28 points in about the first 12 minutes of the second half; that's the only stretch we played poor defense (but it was a pretty important stretch).

It was good to see JJ there. I wish they would have let him shoot around at halftime in lieu of the Dancing Devils.

[dukelifer]

And everyone should be very happy- Singler is going to be really fresh for the Maryland game. He only played 29 minutes ;)

[roywhite]

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=3650491

Some interesting stats from the official boxscore:

Duke shot 29% in 1st half; 76.9% in 2nd half
Rebounds---NC State 36 Duke 25
Gerald Henderson---21 pts, 7 rebs, 4 ast, 1 blk, 5 steals

[UrinalCake]

I only saw the game in pieces as I had to put my daughter to bed... am I correct that Singler had some foul trouble in the first half, and that we played much better when he came back?

I think State over the last three years has been a tough matchup for us, they've had multiple big men who can post, drive, and even shoot the three. Our help defense can guard against one of these types of players, but not two at the same time, so that kind of negates our advantage in the 1-3 spots. Just my uneducated opinion.

[Saratoga2]

Thanks for filling in some of the details for those of us without a TV feed. Henderson's stat line makes it clear that he had an impressive game on both sides of the ball. With Jon, it is not clear if he had open shots and missed or had a matchup problem on offense. Singler may also have had a matchup problem but did wind up with 17 points and always plays hard. Good to hear McClure is continuing his stellar play.

It sounds like the main weakness continues at the inside position for rebounding, help defense and offensive aggressiveness. At least a few posters thought Zoubek had some good moments. I didn't hear much good about Lance though and wonder what has happened to the promising start he had earlier this year. My guess is Miles will get more time going forward if Lance doesn't show more soon.

[Wildling]

Disagree on the defense. There were a few mistakes, for sure, but you don't hold a team to 56 points in a game where you "forget what help defense was about."

The 56 points argument doesn't hold water in my opinion. NCSU has no point guard, and not much of an inside presence. Yet time and time again they were getting points in the paint by driving to the hole with no one stopping them because no one rotated over. Duke made McCauley/Costner look like 1st team All Americans tonight. It wasn't Dukes defense that made it possible for only 56 points, it's because NCSU can't score, they have no offensive weapons.

Maybe the "forget what help defense was about" comment was a bit harsh, but it was lacking big time tonight.

[jipops]

Almost looked like we were overlooking this game, don't know why, do we have a big game this weekend or something?? ;)


I don't think this had to do with looking forward, more with looking back. Looked like we had GTown hangover out there. Guys seemed to pull out of it rather well in the 2nd half. Let's not forget, these guys just played a huge game Saturday, got a day off, then one day of practice before another ACC battle. Remember what happened last time we had a turnaround this quick or quicker after a tough non-conference game? Michigan happened.

Henderson led us in all major statistical categories tonight, including assists and steals. It's probably been long long time since we've had someone do that.

[Ian]

Can we stop making excuses for Zoubek and Thomas?

Against FSU and Georgetown it's "they don't match up well with big tall front lines", and against NSCU now it's "they don't match up well with smaller quicker guys".

So they don't match up well against tall players or short players. What's left?

It's not the match up, it's the quality of their play. It simply hasn't been there. They need to get it together, no more excuses. Otherwise I expect a lot of small ball in our future with Singler and McClure playing inside, a lot.

On the other hand, GH was spectacular. He is turning into a dominant player. The only downside is if he keeps this up he won't be back next year.

[A-Tex Devil]

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=3650491

Gerald Henderson---21 pts, 7 rebs, 4 ast, 1 blk, 5 steals

I was waiting for someone to post this. This is a ridiculous stat line. We didn't get the game here in Austin, but wow!!

[Kimist]

This game worried me, as it was much closer than the final score. If the Devils offense cannot somehow become more consistent, there could be some serious problems against a team better than NCSU.

Scheyer seems to be in an offensive funk for the last several games.

Zoub has this nasty habit of either bringing the ball down, or even worse dribbling when it could be avoided. And didn't he get his shot blocked at least twice tonight?

OTOH, I like the steady play of McClure and continue to be amazed at what Henderson is beginning to show.

Yes, the TV crew left a bit to be desired....but it still beats enduring Vitale or Packer. What's with Gman's earring??

k

[chrisheery]

In a bar. At least 1 of those blocks on Zoub looked like a clear foul, but no call. Did anyone else think so? Is it possible he doesn't get these calls because (as per the playcaller's notes) a referee is ready to make the call they expect. In Zoub's case, the fact that he gets blocked at times makes the ref more likely to allow more physical play against him. I actually like when he doesn't go straight up. When he pump fakes it lets the refs really assess what he is doing and call what happens.

Hey, it works for #50.

[phaedrus]

Henderson led us in all major statistical categories tonight, including assists and steals. It's probably been long long time since we've had someone do that.

Considering Singler has been leading the team in points, rebounds, assists, and steals per game, it probably hasn't been that long.

[godukecom]

FWIW, Zoub did make a nice move on McCalley (sp?) when he dribbled once, pivoted back with his right root, and did a sudo-reverse layup...

[greybeard]

I can understand why K did it, but you don't sit two regulars an entire game and expect them to come back and be in sync with the rest of the guys, and then yank them if they disappoint on a few opportunities.

Didn't see the game, but what from one poster said is that Zoubek had difficulty converting from catching in an "athletic stance" with weight on his back and converting that into an effective try on the basket. I think that that is a very problematic play for him and would not be asking him to make it. I do not think that this is a matter that can be improved by "practice" in a conventional sense, ie, reps, or by improving lower or upper body strength. I think that there are somethings about navigating the territory from an "athletic position", shield-you-man catch, in which he is bent over with knees bent to an upright extended position from which he can deliver an effective shot that Zoubek does not "get," some very elemental things that are very remote from what one would call basketball skills.

If Z gets it the ball thrown high in a way that requires him to move in a direction that his alignment prepares him to I think that he has provent that he can be very effective. I think that there are a lot of big men who function best in this way. While some, maybe a fair number, can jump better than Zoubek or exhibit more diversity, I believe that Zoubek is quite effective when he makes such receptions. I also believe that K's system is not about having his team playing or looking for such passing opportunities. I fear we are getting ever more near to square-peg-round-hole territory in which there are no winners, certainly not Zoubek.

If this is a delegated judgment to one of the assistants, if I was K, I would try redelegating. I think that their best team requires that they use Zoubek effectively for 15-15 minutes a game, and that the mountain coming to Mohammad is the best and probably only way that that can happen. Regretably it sounds like things are moving in the opposite direction: Zoubek only gets it if he sets and seals in the manner the coaches want, and in that position odds on he disappoints. Ouch!

[devildeac]

Duke shot 77% in the second half.

After a 29% 1st half. Strange game.

[SilkyJ]

We have the highlight of the night on the front page of espn right now and its a nice shot of G


FWIW, Zoub did make a nice move on McCalley (sp?) when he dribbled once, pivoted back with his right root, and did a sudo-reverse layup...

just fyi, that's called a drop step and thats been one of, if not the one, go to move for Zoubs this year when he actually makes a move with his back to the basket, which is not very often.

[Jumbo]

I can understand why K did it, but you don't sit two regulars an entire game and expect them to come back and be in sync with the rest of the guys, and then yank them if they disappoint on a few opportunities.

Didn't see the game, but what from one poster said is that Zoubek had difficulty converting from catching in an "athletic stance" with weight on his back and converting that into an effective try on the basket. I think that that is a very problematic play for him and would not be asking him to make it. I do not think that this is a matter that can be improved by "practice" in a conventional sense, ie, reps, or by improving lower or upper body strength. I think that there are somethings about navigating the territory from an "athletic position", shield-you-man catch, in which he is bent over with knees bent to an upright extended position from which he can deliver an effective shot that Zoubek does not "get," some very elemental things that are very remote from what one would call basketball skills.

If Z gets it the ball thrown high in a way that requires him to move in a direction that his alignment prepares him to I think that he has provent that he can be very effective. I think that there are a lot of big men who function best in this way. While some, maybe a fair number, can jump better than Zoubek or exhibit more diversity, I believe that Zoubek is quite effective when he makes such receptions. I also believe that K's system is not about having his team playing or looking for such passing opportunities. I fear we are getting ever more near to square-peg-round-hole territory in which there are no winners, certainly not Zoubek.

If this is a delegated judgment to one of the assistants, if I was K, I would try redelegating. I think that their best team requires that they use Zoubek effectively for 15-15 minutes a game, and that the mountain coming to Mohammad is the best and probably only way that that can happen. Regretably it sounds like things are moving in the opposite direction: Zoubek only gets it if he sets and seals in the manner the coaches want, and in that position odds on he disappoints. Ouch!

How can you possibly comment (let alone at such length) about Zoubek's moves when you didn't even see them??? Seriously?

The plays (there were three of them) were almost identical. He caught the ball with basically no one near him around the hoop, with his back to the basket or turned toward the side, off lobs. But it took him so long to collect himself, turn and put the ball in the basket from two feet away that defenders who didn't seem close to him were able to scramble and, despite giving up several inches, block his shot.
And he got 16 minutes tonight, so you can't complain about his playing time, either.

[Oriole Way]

I am one of the more critical observers of this team and I was happy with the win tonight. I'm a little surprised a lot of posters were unhappy with the overall performance.

I really value good second half performances from this team. That's winning time, and many of our losses - going back several years - will feature a prolonged offensive second half drought, missed free throws, bad defensive rebounding, and poor defense overall. None of that was really evident tonight. Sure, NC State was hitting shots at will for the start of the second half, but I don't think Duke playing bad defense was the reason. NC State was just playing well and hitting contested shots, pure and simple.

I thought we recovered very well from a cold-shooting first half. We exchanged punches with NC State for most of the 2nd half's first 8 minutes. Both State and Duke answered each other with big buckets, and I thought it was great basketball by both teams. Players stepped up and made plays, even with their opponents playing tough defense against them. But ultimately, Duke continued to score after making some stops, forcing some turnovers, and withstanding NC State's hot shooting. The end of the second half was very efficient, and we delivered a few knockout blows to put the game away convincingly. I hope Duke can continue to do that against our better opponents, and I believe this team is capable of that.

Gerald Henderson was a man among boys tonight, especially in the second half. He imposed his will on the game, and scored in pretty much every way possible. He drove to the rim, getting fouled twice on consecutive possessions. He pulled up to hit jumpers, and he even drove to his left effectively once. Without Henderson essentially comprising our entire offense for the start of the second half, it would have been very unlikely Duke would have won.

But I was also very impressed with Nolan Smith tonight. Along with G and Singler, he played a fine game. He asserted himself at a key juncture in the second half, when the game was still very close. He hit 2 clutch 3-pointers, and then followed those up with a jumper from the foul line. I believe they were on three consecutive offensive possessions for Duke, but I could be mistaken and it might have been 3 out of 4 or something close to that. I really think those Smith buckets were the ultimate turning point in the game. After securing the lead, we never looked back. If Smith can emerge as a somewhat consistent scorer in big games, and improve in terms of taking care of the basketball, we become a much better team. He was very confident tonight, which we haven't really seen since his knee injury.

Ultimately, NC State is a solid team. They have two quality big men in McCauley and Costner. Their guard play leaves a little to be desired, but they have been competitive all season. This was a letdown game for Duke, and that was the case for the first half. But we overcame another terrible shooting night from Jon Scheyer and foul trouble with Singler.

Speaking of Scheyer, unless he's injured, he will emerge from his slump eventually, most likely very soon. Guards in general can be quite susceptible to shooting slumps lasting a few games. Frankly, I'm glad it's happening now, during a relatively easy part of the schedule. I am cautiously hopeful that Jon will find his stroke in time for the brutal part of our schedule.

[Troublemaker]

Can we stop making excuses for Zoubek and Thomas?

Against FSU and Georgetown it's "they don't match up well with big tall front lines", and against NSCU now it's "they don't match up well with smaller quicker guys".

So they don't match up well against tall players or short players. What's left?

It's not the match up, it's the quality of their play. It simply hasn't been there. They need to get it together, no more excuses.

Excuses? I don't see any excusing making, just folks stating their opinions about certain matchups. What I do see is you splitting hairs here. What you apparently want to read is an analysis of the big men that says "their quality of play is not good." Well, that is splitting hairs because that analysis is essentially the same as saying they don't match up well with various players. Obviously, if a player were a stud (i.e. someone who consists of high quality play), he'd have much fewer poor matchups for him. So, I don't see what the gain is by saying things your way instead. I see it as a semantical adjustment. Besides, matchups are extremely important in basketball and fun to analyze.

FWIW, Zoubek and Thomas will have their first good matchups in awhile against Maryland.

[FireOgilvie]

I watched the first half again. I focused on where we broke down on defense, but there are a few notes about offense as well.

The NC State run to take the lead - Took advantage of poor communication on defense. Most of their points came from missed defensive switches in zone defense. Thomas played a direct role in several of these. Smith and McClure on the Costner 3 that put State up 24-20. Zoubek got beaten badly as he was posted up and his man dribbled around him.

Smith - Great at staying in front of his man on defense. Made one big mistake and had to swipe from behind. If his man tries to drive on him he either stays in front of him and cuts him off or runs him off at an angle away from the basket so help defense can arrive. Has a tendency to drift and wander (into the paint for example) in defensive switches and after shots, which leads to long rebounds going over his head. Not completely aware of where he should be at all times. Started out very aggressive on offense - drove to the rim early a couple times, but NC State adjusted and he didn't force the issue. Able to get the ball to guys to create their own shot (leading to low assist numbers). In my opinion, he should stay aggressive and drive to the basket whenever possible and either shoot or look for the open man. If he does that, he will be much more effective.

McClure - Great defensive awareness, which leads to good positioning for rebounds. Makes up for other people's defensive switching mistakes. Great lateral quickness; hard to get past him. Contests every shot with his long arms.

Paulus - Slow lateral movement, has trouble staying in front of his man. Got completely burned - led to floater from 3 feet. Tendency to be over-aggressive... went for a steal on an inbounds and missed, which led to State points, went for another steal that led to an open 3 (that missed). Frequently lets his man get away from him and can't recover. The defense has to play tighter into the paint to make sure to be in position if his man gets by him. Great shooting in the first half. I think he would be much more effective on defense if he just backed off of his man a bit (especially 5+ feet outside of the 3 point line).

Zoubek - Started out well, but had trouble staying with State's more mobile big guys. Almost always in good position for rebounds, but gets undercut and pushed around too easily. He looked really good for the first 5.5 minutes. He was particularly ineffective when State spread out the floor.

Thomas - Almost never in position to rebound because he gets pulled away from the basket and plays his man too far from the hoop. Slow to rotate on defensive switches (or he just didn't), leading to a lot of open looks. He really looked lost on defense a lot, although he brings a great deal of energy. He stays with his man and doesn't get beaten off the dribble very easily. I noticed that he is rarely ever close to the ball for rebounds, it's not that he just misses. He usually crashes the glass on defense from the outside, but this doesn't lead to rebounds.

Henderson - Looked great on defense. Disrupted the ball whenever it was around him. Not beaten off the dribble. He probably played the best defense of anyone in the 1st half.

[ncexnyc]

I can understand why K did it, but you don't sit two regulars an entire game and expect them to come back and be in sync with the rest of the guys, and then yank them if they disappoint on a few opportunities.

Didn't see the game, but what from one poster said is that Zoubek had difficulty converting from catching in an "athletic stance" with weight on his back and converting that into an effective try on the basket. I think that that is a very problematic play for him and would not be asking him to make it. I do not think that this is a matter that can be improved by "practice" in a conventional sense, ie, reps, or by improving lower or upper body strength. I think that there are somethings about navigating the territory from an "athletic position", shield-you-man catch, in which he is bent over with knees bent to an upright extended position from which he can deliver an effective shot that Zoubek does not "get," some very elemental things that are very remote from what one would call basketball skills.

If Z gets it the ball thrown high in a way that requires him to move in a direction that his alignment prepares him to I think that he has provent that he can be very effective. I think that there are a lot of big men who function best in this way. While some, maybe a fair number, can jump better than Zoubek or exhibit more diversity, I believe that Zoubek is quite effective when he makes such receptions. I also believe that K's system is not about having his team playing or looking for such passing opportunities. I fear we are getting ever more near to square-peg-round-hole territory in which there are no winners, certainly not Zoubek.

If this is a delegated judgment to one of the assistants, if I was K, I would try redelegating. I think that their best team requires that they use Zoubek effectively for 15-15 minutes a game, and that the mountain coming to Mohammad is the best and probably only way that that can happen. Regretably it sounds like things are moving in the opposite direction: Zoubek only gets it if he sets and seals in the manner the coaches want, and in that position odds on he disappoints. Ouch!

Please, please, please, enough of this already!

Brian botched 3 easy baskets. One he fumbled away and the other two were blocked when they should have been uncontested gimmes due to his size and position when he got the ball.

I think Brian's has a ton of upside and as long as he stays healthy he will improve, but the constant excuses you make for him and your continual harping about where he gets the ball is getting really old.

I'm not bashing the kid, he made several really nice plays. He made another nice spin move along the baseline and he converted. He also had several nice pass plays, which seem to reinforce the idea that he is a solid passer and should be utilized as such.

Before you write a response to this post watch the game. You'll see everything you'll need to see in the first 10-15 minutes of the game. Then if you disagree, have at me with both barrels.

[Ian]

Excuses? I don't see any excusing making, just folks stating their opinions about certain matchups. What I do see is you splitting hairs here. What you apparently want to read is an analysis of the big men that says "their quality of play is not good." Well, that is splitting hairs because that analysis is essentially the same as saying they don't match up well with various players. Obviously, if a player were a stud (i.e. someone who consists of high quality play), he'd have much fewer poor matchups for him. So, I don't see what the gain is by saying things your way instead. I see it as a semantical adjustment. Besides, matchups are extremely important in basketball and fun to analyze.

FWIW, Zoubek and Thomas will have their first good matchups in awhile against Maryland.

No, it's not saying the same thing. Saying "they don't match up well against smaller players" implies that they would have done better had the other team been bigger. But they didn't do well against teams with bigger lineup either, so the problem is not match ups, it's simply lack of performance. I don't think had the opposition been bigger it would have helped them at all.

[CameronCrazy'11]

With Zoubek, it's 3 steps forward, 2 steps back. Sorry, people are still gonna have to be patient with him.

[Acymetric]

The 56 points argument doesn't hold water in my opinion. NCSU has no point guard, and not much of an inside presence. Yet time and time again they were getting points in the paint by driving to the hole with no one stopping them because no one rotated over. Duke made McCauley/Costner look like 1st team All Americans tonight. It wasn't Dukes defense that made it possible for only 56 points, it's because NCSU can't score, they have no offensive weapons.

Maybe the "forget what help defense was about" comment was a bit harsh, but it was lacking big time tonight.

I was in the RBC center not too long ago and watched State put up somewhere near 80 points I believe (in the FSU game). They certainly aren't an offensive power, but our defense was good at worst. Imagine if we could have grabbed some boards, their score would have been even lower. Was there butter on that ball?

[ForeverBlowingBubbles]

With Zoubek, it's 3 steps forward, 2 steps back. Sorry, people are still gonna have to be patient with him.

You can only be so patient before you have to ask yourself.... seriously...? I mean what he's a junior now playing D1 basketball and he airballs layups from point blank range?

[Troublemaker]

No, it's not saying the same thing. Saying "they don't match up well against smaller players" implies that they would have done better had the other team been bigger. But they didn't do well against teams with bigger lineup either, so the problem is not match ups, it's simply lack of performance. I don't think had the opposition been bigger it would have helped them at all.

First of all, the appropriate/ideal matchups differ whether you're talking about Z or LT, who are very different players, so it's not a good idea to lump them together like that. Second, it's not just a big vs small thing. That oversimplifies the issue. Let's take Z for instance. His relies so much on his height and is otherwise so unathletic that when he matches up against tall centers like the ones from FSU or GaTech, he becomes neutralized. However, he's also not quick enough to handle opposing big men with good perimeter skills (typically smaller), which makes him unusable against Georgetown, for instance. Do those instances mean we've covered the entire gamut of all big men and Z can never make an impact on this team? Of course not. There are plenty of 6'7 to 6'9 players that don't have good perimeters skills which he can match up against. He can play against a Trevor Booker, for example, and we'll need him for those games against Clemson. I admit it's somewhat like threading a needle as far as finding the right matchups for him, but they do exist, which is why he leads the team in plus/minus rate. Furthermore, pointing out when he has difficult matchups isn't "excusing" the quality of big man that he is. In fact, quite the opposite. We know he has limitations, which have an effect on what matchups are good for him.

[Lord Ash]

It was good to see JJ there. I wish they would have let him shoot around at halftime in lieu of the Dancing Devils.

That would have been the best halftime show EVER EVER EVER EVER.

[rsvman]

I'm also in Virginia and couldn't watch the game. I was watching a bit of Tennessee v Vanderbilt and then ESPN runs a "SCORE ALERT!!" on the crawl saying that NCSU was beating Duke....and then they show the score and we're down 3 with 10:38 left in the game. They made it sound like we were down 15 with 4 minutes left or something.

Despite the over-sell, I went up to the computer and went on to CBS Sportsline and got the play-by-play stat update thingy. (It was better than nothing.) What I saw was McClure getting steals and blocks, Henderson getting steals at key times, Henderson and Smith making key shots, Singler picking up rebounds and making shots when we needed them.

We beat them by 20 points in a 10-minute stretch. Think about it. That's COMPLETE domination.

[TwoDukeTattoos]

Being at the game in person, it became clearer to me why Zoubs sometimes doesn't see more playing time: he's a liability on D. He can't attempt to be an on-the-ball defender without fouling, so his only option is to go straight up. Given his size, sometimes that's enough. But any reasonably athletic big guy can score on him at will. Also, I'm not sure why no-one helped him to double-team his opponents.

I'm not really concerned about the rebounding margin. Of course, rebounds are relative to shooting percentage and given the fact that both seems shot really well during significant stretches, there simply weren't as many rebounds to be had.

Gerald's step-back jumper is becoming quite scary. Good for Duke now, possibly bad for Duke later as the NBA scouts are no doubt looking closely.

Once again, K played 10 guys early with 8 guys seeing 15+ minutes. Given that, I'm not too concerned that we lacked a bit of chemistry at times - it happens sometimes with a deep bench. The fact is that vs G'Town (a top-15 power) and State K played went deep into his bench very early and we were still able to beat both teams quite handily. This could be a very good sign come March. Added bonus: Singler saw only 29 minutes and still scored 17.

[DukeUsul]

Thank goodness for regression toward the mean.

Regardless of what a few people have said, it's great to see us win with our defense. Holding State to 26 pts at the half and 56 for the game is the primary reason we won.

In any game, we need a 4th or 5th option scoring to make up for when one of the big 3 has a night off. Some nights that will be Nolan. The last couple of games it's been Greg, hitting big threes of the bench. They both were good tonight.

I hope Z and LT figure things out.

I'm glad Dave looked for his shot. He needs to be at least some kind of offensive threat when he's on the floor, or else defenders can cheat off him. I'd like him to be even more assertive when he's on O, as he's such a great asset on defense.

[should_be_working]

Almost looked like we were overlooking this game, don't know why, do we have a big game this weekend or something?? ;)

Bad first half, good second. Jon will come around. Good game for Greg, great game for Henderson. This game scared me because of what comes after it, but it was nice to see us pull it together and come out with a win.

Hahaha. For some reason, I've been thinking for two weeks now that we play Wake Forest this weekend. It was only until ESPN informed me this morning that we play them a week from today. I really need to improve my schedule reading and calendar skills. So I take back my "we were looking ahead" statement and concur with the "hangover from Georgetown" theory.
I feel stupid.

[RepoMan]

The plays (there were three of them) were almost identical. He caught the ball with basically no one near him around the hoop, with his back to the basket or turned toward the side, off lobs. But it took him so long to collect himself, turn and put the ball in the basket from two feet away that defenders who didn't seem close to him were able to scramble and, despite giving up several inches, block his shot.

Seriously, Greybeard, please no more conspiracy theories about players freezing Zoubek out on offense because of some sort of mysterious vendetta. He had three golden opportunities and didn't just fail to convert them; he got stuffed -- which is hard to imagine for a 7 footer.

I am optimistic that Paulus either is feeling better or has better accepted his role or both. This game was a perfect example of what he can mean to the team.

It seems really odd that as Gerald's game has improved, Jon has disappeared a bit. I hope it is random coincidence and that there is no correlation.

Defense remains the teams calling card.

I wonder where Elliots play is lacking, which is leading to minimal court time.

Having experienced players like McClure and Paulus coming off the bench is an incredible luxury.

[jjasper0729]

Physical game... Tough D played on both sides of the ball... We missed a lot of open looks in the first half and looked somewhat discombobulated at times... State seemed to get every loose ball [I would love a stat on how many times a loose ball bounced off one of our guy's heads and into a State players' hands tonight] for a long stretch from about halfway through the first half through about the 10-minute mark in the second half...

quick unofficial total was 7 at the table...

I have to think last night was a bit of let down after the big win on Saturday and the quick turnaround. Even Coach said that they had some kind of bug and had to "vomit it up" and everything got better after that.

As for "Z", I believe (and I can't believe I'm saying this) Montross had the same problem for the 'Holes and until he realized that he needed to keep the ball up, he had some of the same issues. Greg needs to not bring the ball down and go up a lot stronger and try to flush some of those lay ups that either get blocked or he misses in the neck of the rim. I don't think he's bad or a huge liability. He just needs to assert himself and it could click. The drop step he had in the second half was quite nice. What he needed to do in the first half was go up stronger and/or use that drop step to get around McCauley.

[allenmurray]

I wonder where Elliots play is lacking, which is leading to minimal court time.

It may not be that Elliot's play is lacking, but that you provided the answer in your next line:


Having experienced players like McClure and Paulus coming off the bench is an incredible luxury.

Elliot is a freshman on an incredibly deep team.

[roywhite]

As for "Z", I believe (and I can't believe I'm saying this) Montross had the same problem for the 'Holes and until he realized that he needed to keep the ball up, he had some of the same issues. Greg needs to not bring the ball down and go up a lot stronger

Poor Brian; he might as well go ahead and change his name.

[jjasper0729]

lol... got home late from the game and still not fully awake.. forgive...

yes.. BRIAN.. .let us SHOUT it from the mountain tops

[Slackerb]

I can perhaps give some perspective from the other side, as a State fan. First off, great game, especially after the halftime when both teams were just shooting lights out. It was like seeing two heavyweights trade blows.

Looking back at the game, State started losing it's lead when it did one of Sid's patented mass substitutions and put in a lineup of Javi gonzalez, cj williams, johnny thomas, dennis horner, and tracy smith at 12:05.

Resting his starters en masse, he left these guys in the game for 3 minutes and then started subbing his starters back in around the 9:30 mark. State was up 4 before the substitution and was down 5 when McCauley and Fells checked back in. After that group substitution, we just lost all momentum and disintegrated offensively from there.

Sid plays his bench way too much for such a shallow team....we were better when we played the starters 30+ minutes two years ago.

Also, Julius Mays, despite being a freshman, continues to look like a better option at point than Farnold Degand. Degand's 6 turnovers, including that embarassing start, just killed State. Mays finished the game with 1 AST, 2 TO, 4 PTS in 13 minutes.

[1DevilishKing]

Ladies & Gentlemen & Duke Haters,

Let it be known that even if one player is having
a great game-the whole team is having a great
game. So when they win-we all win. I live in the
mid-west, & they did not broadcast the game
where I'm @. Thank God for ESPN! Its not always
the offense that wins a game. Defense has to
be applied @ all times. Even when offense is being
played. "GH" is on a hot streak right now, that means
so is our defense. I commend our "Point Gunners"
on a job well done on eliminating the competition.
In my eye's there is no competition in the way of
the "BlueDevils". Well, maybe except for the "Ref's.
In the end they may be our biggest competitors.
Only time can tell. In the meanwhile, let's just all
sit back and enjoy the show.

1DevilishKing

[sagegrouse]

It seems really odd that as Gerald's game has improved, Jon has disappeared a bit. I hope it is random coincidence and that there is no correlation.


In the parlance of the basketball trade (I am making this up), if there is a causal direction, this is known as the "one ball theory."

I suppose the common sense interpretation is that feeding a hot scorer isn't contagious; instead, the other players don't get enough time with the ball to develop a rhythm. And sometimes they have to force shots because they get the ball only after the hot player can't get off a shot, not when they are really in position to shoot.

It seems to affect guards more than big men, who can sometimes get layups and dunks when the defense collapses on the hot player.

sagegrouse
'Full of it for seven decades'

sagegrouse

[Ian]

First of all, the appropriate/ideal matchups differ whether you're talking about Z or LT, who are very different players, so it's not a good idea to lump them together like that. Second, it's not just a big vs small thing. That oversimplifies the issue. Let's take Z for instance. His relies so much on his height and is otherwise so unathletic that when he matches up against tall centers like the ones from FSU or GaTech, he becomes neutralized. However, he's also not quick enough to handle opposing big men with good perimeter skills (typically smaller), which makes him unusable against Georgetown, for instance. Do those instances mean we've covered the entire gamut of all big men and Z can never make an impact on this team? Of course not. There are plenty of 6'7 to 6'9 players that don't have good perimeters skills which he can match up against. He can play against a Trevor Booker, for example, and we'll need him for those games against Clemson. I admit it's somewhat like threading a needle as far as finding the right matchups for him, but they do exist, which is why he leads the team in plus/minus rate. Furthermore, pointing out when he has difficult matchups isn't "excusing" the quality of big man that he is. In fact, quite the opposite. We know he has limitations, which have an effect on what matchups are good for him.

The point is, match ups imply that a player has a specific deficiency or weakness in his game that a particular type of opposition can exploit. Like an Achilles' heel.

If a player has so many deficiencies that he struggles against almost every kind of player, it's no longer about matchups. Let's take a 5'10 guy with no lateral quickness, no handles, and can't shoot, when he gets into a game and get abused, we don't say "bad match up", we just say "he's not very good".

[devildeac]

The point is, match ups imply that a player has a specific deficiency or weakness in his game that a particular type of opposition can exploit. Like an Achilles' heel.

If a player has so many deficiencies that he struggles against almost every kind of player, it's no longer about matchups. Let's take a 5'10 guy with no lateral quickness, no handles, and can't shoot, when he gets into a game and get abused, we don't say "bad match up", we just say "he's not very good".

Wait a minute now-you're getting pretty personal with that last description. The only thing you missed was my 4 inch vertical:o:rolleyes:.

[allenmurray]

Looking back at the game, State started losing it's lead when it did one of Sid's patented mass substitutions and put in a lineup of Javi gonzalez, cj williams, johnny thomas, dennis horner, and tracy smith at 12:05.

Resting his starters en masse, he left these guys in the game for 3 minutes and then started subbing his starters back in around the 9:30 mark. State was up 4 before the substitution and was down 5 when McCauley and Fells checked back in. After that group substitution, we just lost all momentum and disintegrated offensively from there.

Agreed - very poor in-game management by Sid. I really want NCSU to be successful (against everybody but Duke). I think Duke is enough more talented that they would have pulled it out no matter what, but whatever chance NCSU had was taken away by that poor decision making by Lowe.

[ncexnyc]

In the parlance of the basketball trade (I am making this up), if there is a causal direction, this is known as the "one ball theory."

I suppose the common sense interpretation is that feeding a hot scorer isn't contagious; instead, the other players don't get enough time with the ball to develop a rhythm. And sometimes they have to force shots because they get the ball only after the hot player can't get off a shot, not when they are really in position to shoot.

It seems to affect guards more than big men, who can sometimes get layups and dunks when the defense collapses on the hot player.

sagegrouse
'Full of it for seven decades'

sagegrouse
Funny, I said almost the exact same thing at the start of the season when everyone was lamenting the lack of scoring from G.

As much as we talk about Jon's so called scoring slump, it's really amazing how he still manages to bury those 3's at the end of every game at a crucial moment;)

[UrinalCake]

Sid plays his bench way too much for such a shallow team....we were better when we played the starters 30+ minutes two years ago.

An intriguing comment to hear on this board, as many Duke fans have clamored for years that we need to give our bench players more playing time. I wonder if State fans are satisfied that the starters will be more rested in March (which is the reasoning Duke fans use for wanting to give the reserves more minutes)?

Nice to hear some rational perspective from an opposing team's fan.

[RepoMan]

It may not be that Elliot's play is lacking, but that you provided the answer in your next line:



Elliot is a freshman on an incredibly deep team.

Well, if his play wasn't lacking in some regard, I imagine that he would be playing notwithstanding the presence of veterans. You need look no further than this team to see that K will play who he perceives to be the best players, notwithstanding their seniority. So, it seems clear that, in some respect, he thinks that Williams is not practicing as well as the guys who are playing in the games. I was simply curious as to what it is. Is it offense? Defense? What? Frankly, I don't care if he plays another minute this season if he is not the best guy to play. I'm not pining for more PT. I am just curious about what the coaches think he needs to develop.

[ncexnyc]

An intriguing comment to hear on this board, as many Duke fans have clamored for years that we need to give our bench players more playing time. I wonder if State fans are satisfied that the starters will be more rested in March (which is the reasoning Duke fans use for wanting to give the reserves more minutes)?

Nice to hear some rational perspective from an opposing team's fan.

I'm sorry, but I believe you're off in your analysis of the minutes/playing time debate.

This Duke team isn't a, "shallow" team, therefore substituting a player here or there isn't the same for us as it is for State.
I'm also positive that no one has ever advocated making, "substitutions en masse" like State has.

The first debate that rages here is, are some key players overused during the season and therefore, "fatigued" come tourney time.

The second debate centers around player development. Does giving a freshman or any bench player for that matter, playing time in game situations help or hinder their ability to make contributions later in the year.

Where you or I stand on either matter is irrelevant to what was posted by our State friend, as we are a completely different team than State.

[UrinalCake]

I understand that State and Duke have different personnel, so the comparison is not exactly the same. My point was simply, would we be willing to accept a loss in the middle of the season in order to get these bench guys some more playing time? Because my interpretation of the original post was that the substitution of starters for bench players was a big part of what cost them the game.

[Classof06]

- Henderson led Duke in every major category last night. I think it's safe to say he's arrived. He also played the most minutes out of anyone on our team last night. It probably had to do with Kyle's foul trouble but I can't remember the last time (if ever) that Gerald played 36 minutes.

- I like that Plumlee is starting to get minutes; Krzyzewski has to know they're going to need the kid down the stretch and Zoubek's taken a bit of a step back since ACC play began. I'd like to see more EWill too, but that's not as pressing because most of our vets are perimeter players like him.

- Yesterday, there was a point where I was actually glad Paulus was in and not Nolan. Nolan picked his play up later in the game, but that had never happened to me before.

- Scheyer's been in a bit of a scoring slump lately. But he's such a complete and savvy player that he contributes in other ways and you don't even notice it. Would you believe he only had 3 points last night? Me neither. He had 4 dimes, though.

[Virginian]

I think if we had been assured before the game that we'd hold NCST under 60 points, shoot 50% from the field (including 50% threes) and win by 17 we'd have been jubilant.

Every game ebbs and flows. I mean, you don't shoot 50% over the entire game by making every other shot -- you make 3 or 4 and then miss 2 or 3 and then make 2, etc. And just about every team in the conference can look good at some point of the game. Look at how Miami gave UNC a run in the first half the other day.

But still, our ebbs and flows seem at times to be gargantuan. We play lights out for 7 minutes and then go scoreless for 5 or 6 minutes. Everyone understandably wants the team to be consistent throughout the game, but if they played as consistently well as they did the last 10 minutes of last night's game, they'd be scoring 125 points per game. Ain't gonna happen.

Maybe that's just the way the year is going to go. So long as we have the gas in the tank when we need it, perhaps we'll continue our winning ways.

I hope the Md. game doesn't put a lie to this theory and make it seem just wishful thinking.

[rsvman]

Everyone understandably wants the team to be consistent throughout the game, but if they played as consistently well as they did the last 10 minutes of last night's game, they'd be scoring 125 points per game.

Yeah, and we would have won the game by 80 points. LOL.

[77devil]

But still, our ebbs and flows seem at times to be gargantuan. We play lights out for 7 minutes and then go scoreless for 5 or 6 minutes. Everyone understandably wants the team to be consistent throughout the game, but if they played as consistently well as they did the last 10 minutes of last night's game, they'd be scoring 125 points per game. Ain't gonna happen.


I, for one, would settle for less standard deviation. I'm not sure my blood pressure can take it. ;)

[mike88]

I understand that State and Duke have different personnel, so the comparison is not exactly the same. My point was simply, would we be willing to accept a loss in the middle of the season in order to get these bench guys some more playing time? Because my interpretation of the original post was that the substitution of starters for bench players was a big part of what cost them the game.

I am in favor of us giving more minutes to our bench players relative to our starters for two reasons: 1) I am somewhat concerned about the collective (mental and physical) fatigue of the long regular season and its effect on our performance in the NCAAs; 2) I want our 7-9th players to feel they are contributing and to be ready to play good minutes in late season games in case our starters are off their games or in foul trouble.

That said, I think it is important to avoid the type of problems that Coach Lowe caused with his substitution pattern last night. I see three ways to do this: 1) don't sit your two best players at the same time (for State, Costner and McCauley; for Duke, Kyle and G); 2) don't rely on multiple subs in the last 10 minutes of a close game; and 3) be more liberal with substitutions at home than on the road.

Coach K does not have a pre-planned substitution scheme- he has said many times he does it by "feel." But I have been interested to see him use 4 subs early in the first half in the last couple of home games (more like an NBA substitution pattern). This kind of substitution allows him to see earlier how different players are doing, while still preserving the key final minutes for the best line-up on that particular night. I thought it worked pretty well, although I wasn't sure why Marty came in and out a couple of times in rapid succession in the first half last night.

[Saratoga2]

Well, if his play wasn't lacking in some regard, I imagine that he would be playing notwithstanding the presence of veterans. You need look no further than this team to see that K will play who he perceives to be the best players, notwithstanding their seniority. So, it seems clear that, in some respect, he thinks that Williams is not practicing as well as the guys who are playing in the games. I was simply curious as to what it is. Is it offense? Defense? What? Frankly, I don't care if he plays another minute this season if he is not the best guy to play. I'm not pining for more PT. I am just curious about what the coaches think he needs to develop.

Williams seems to be the second best athlete on the team, behind Henderson. He is also a tough kid that gets in and rebounds, even though he is only about 185 pounds. He has a reasonable handle, equal to Smith's last year and has shown he can score. Of course, he is a freshman and is expected to make some mistakes.

I thought he was the best of the new kids, meaning most ready to play. Why then has he not seen PT lately? It is a puzzle to me. He is either hurt, has practiced poorly or has upset the coaches in some way.

He is a kid we want around here in future and could be a real star in the future. Let us not turn him off and drive him away.

[dukebsbll14]

He is a kid we want around here in future and could be a real star in the future. Let us not turn him off and drive him away.


I agree. From what I've seen of him, he looks like a very good athlete with lots of potential. I would hate to see a player like him turn into a Taylor King/Eric Boateng and leave after frosh season.

[jtelander]

What's with Gman's earring??




I was wondering the same thing...is it new? Or have I not noticed it before due to the headphones?

[SMO]

I agree. From what I've seen of him, he looks like a very good athlete with lots of potential. I would hate to see a player like him turn into a Taylor King/Eric Boateng and leave after frosh season.

Is there any reason, any reason at all, to suspect this might happen other than pure speculation?

[jipops]

Considering Singler has been leading the team in points, rebounds, assists, and steals per game, it probably hasn't been that long.

Oh yeah, that guy. Ok then before him...