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gw67
01-19-2009, 01:39 PM
I dont quite understand the point that DBRs is trying to make regarding Teague in the ACC Roundup (see below).

But whats important to remember is that Wakes overall talent makes it really tough to focus on Teague. Its a case of damned if you do and damned if you dont. If he were playing for, say, Virginia, hed still be great, but hed also face double and triple teams, and you cant do that with the other players Wake puts on the floor. They are the furthest thing from a one-man team.

Really! Wake is further from a one-man team than Duke or UNC? Wake is a well balanced team with four players averaging in double figures. The Devils are similar with four players in double figures while the Heels have five players averaging in double figures.

Opponents may not be able to double or triple team Teague (or Henderson or Singler for the matter) but he shares the ball with his talented teammates and scores a bunch on approximately 12 shots a game. To date, he ranks with a player who is double teamed, Hansbrough, as the top player in the conference, IMO.

gw67

feldspar
01-19-2009, 01:48 PM
I dont quite understand the point that DBRs is trying to make regarding Teague in the ACC Roundup (see below).

But whats important to remember is that Wakes overall talent makes it really tough to focus on Teague. Its a case of damned if you do and damned if you dont. If he were playing for, say, Virginia, hed still be great, but hed also face double and triple teams, and you cant do that with the other players Wake puts on the floor. They are the furthest thing from a one-man team.

Really! Wake is further from a one-man team than Duke or UNC? Wake is a well balanced team with four players averaging in double figures. The Devils are similar with four players in double figures while the Heels have five players averaging in double figures.

Opponents may not be able to double or triple team Teague (or Henderson or Singler for the matter) but he shares the ball with his talented teammates and scores a bunch on approximately 12 shots a game. To date, he ranks with a player who is double teamed, Hansbrough, as the top player in the conference, IMO.

gw67

I'm not sure what your gripe is here. I don't think "furthest thing from" was intended as a slight against Duke or UNC. It's just an expression.

dukelifer
01-19-2009, 01:53 PM
I dont quite understand the point that DBRs is trying to make regarding Teague in the ACC Roundup (see below).

But whats important to remember is that Wakes overall talent makes it really tough to focus on Teague. Its a case of damned if you do and damned if you dont. If he were playing for, say, Virginia, hed still be great, but hed also face double and triple teams, and you cant do that with the other players Wake puts on the floor. They are the furthest thing from a one-man team.

Really! Wake is further from a one-man team than Duke or UNC? Wake is a well balanced team with four players averaging in double figures. The Devils are similar with four players in double figures while the Heels have five players averaging in double figures.

Opponents may not be able to double or triple team Teague (or Henderson or Singler for the matter) but he shares the ball with his talented teammates and scores a bunch on approximately 12 shots a game. To date, he ranks with a player who is double teamed, Hansbrough, as the top player in the conference, IMO.

gw67
While I agree that Wake is not a one man team- they are a team that relies a lot more on Teague than Duke or UNC relies on one of their players to run the show. If Teague can be stopped, Wake may be less effective on O- but that is easier said than done. I think the way to beat Wake is to get Teague in foul trouble and limit his aggressiveness. He is, unfortunately, a handful. But if he continues his current pace, Teague will be doing his damage in the NBA next year- perhaps with two of his teammates. One thing a number 1 ranking gets you is a lot of attention.

jv001
01-19-2009, 01:56 PM
While I agree that Wake is not a one man team- they are a team that relies a lot more on Teague than Duke or UNC relies on one of their players to run the show. If Teague can be stopped, Wake may be less effective on O- but that is easier said than done. I think the way to beat Wake is to get Teague in foul trouble and limit his aggressiveness. He is, unfortunately, a handful. But if he continues his current pace, Teague will be doing his damage in the NBA next year- perhaps with two of his teammates. One thing a number 1 ranking gets you is a lot of attention.

I would say that Teague's value to his team is like Kyle to Duke and hanstravel to unc. While all 3 teams would be good without those players, it would probably eliminate all 3 from FF consideration. But that is just my opinion. Go Duke!

dukelifer
01-19-2009, 02:06 PM
I would say that Teague's value to his team is like Kyle to Duke and hanstravel to unc. While all 3 teams would be good without those players, it would probably eliminate all 3 from FF consideration. But that is just my opinion. Go Duke!

I talking more about beating Wake in a game - not what would happen if a Teague were to leave a team for some reason. I think that Duke and UNC could survive an off night by Singler or Hansbrough better than Wake could survive an off night by Teague.

jv001
01-19-2009, 02:08 PM
I talking more about beating Wake in a game - not what would happen if a Teague were to leave a team for some reason. I think that Duke and UNC could survive an off night by Singler or Hansbrough better than Wake could survive an off night by Teague.

I agree.

ncexnyc
01-19-2009, 02:28 PM
I think that Duke and UNC could survive an off night by Singler or Hansbrough better than Wake could survive an off night by Teague.
I'm not so sure I agree with this statement. Exactly what constitutes an off night? Kyle was terrible from the field on Saturday, but more than made up for it with his work on the boards. In UNC's two losses, Hasbro wasn't great, but most people concede it was Lawson's poor play that led to their defeat.
The truly great players contribute in more than one way. I believe that even if Teague has a bad scoring night, Wake is deep enough to get their points from other players.

jv001
01-19-2009, 02:30 PM
I'm not so sure I agree with this statement. Exactly what constitutes an off night? Kyle was terrible from the field on Saturday, but more than made up for it with his work on the boards. In UNC's two losses, Hasbro wasn't great, but most people concede it was Lawson's poor play that led to their defeat.
The truly great players contribute in more than one way. I believe that even if Teague has a bad scoring night, Wake is deep enough to get their points from other players.

Not against Duke or unc.

gw67
01-19-2009, 02:31 PM
dukelifer/jv001 - I agree with your point. Wake cannot afford to lose him. Of course, JWill and others say that the Heels can't afford to lose Lawson. It wasn't clear to me that was the point of the DBR's comment but I'll chalk up my lack of understanding to getting old and having a head cold.

gw67

Devil in the Blue Dress
01-19-2009, 02:36 PM
dukelifer/jv001 - I agree with your point. Wake cannot afford to lose him. Of course, JWill and others say that the Heels can't afford to lose Lawson. It wasn't clear to me that was the point of the DBR's comment but I'll chalk up my lack of understanding to getting old and having a head cold.

gw67
Order yourself a box of those delightful Honeybells currently in season. The marvelous citrus will perk you up in no time at all.

dukelifer
01-19-2009, 04:43 PM
I'm not so sure I agree with this statement. Exactly what constitutes an off night? Kyle was terrible from the field on Saturday, but more than made up for it with his work on the boards. In UNC's two losses, Hasbro wasn't great, but most people concede it was Lawson's poor play that led to their defeat.
The truly great players contribute in more than one way. I believe that even if Teague has a bad scoring night, Wake is deep enough to get their points from other players.
I was thinking scoring more than anything else and having a player out of the game due to foul trouble. I think UNC can make up for that with Davis and Thompson and Duke could make up for some of it with a bench that has good experience (Paulus, Thomas, Zoubek, McClure). Kyle is a pretty valuable cog though. This is really splitting hairs. I just think because Teague has the ball in his hands a lot- and Wake is more inexperienced - they would miss him more.

DukeBlood
01-20-2009, 12:06 AM
In UNC's two losses, Hasbro wasn't great, but most people concede it was Lawson's poor play that led to their defeat.

Tyler had 22 points and 9 boards against the loss to BC. Then 17(3/12 shooting) points and 11 boards against Wake but found other ways to contribute. Not really an off night since he found ways to contribute.

Wake is a tough team. They are tied with Miami at 43.4 rebounds per game which is tops in the country. Shoot over 50% from the field which puts them at 2nd in the country. Score 85 PPG which is 5th in the country. This is one of the better offensive teams in the country. Only ONE way to slow down this team and thats play great D against their whole team.

Also another eye-catching stat is Wake is LAST in 3's made(63) and attempts(187) in the ACC. Second in the ACC in FT attempts(463) and makes(326) with two less games then UNC(478A/357M).

One thing I must say is their OOC schedule was probably the weakest in the ACC, The stats may be a little high due to that. None the less this team is a force. I for one am disappointed I have to work on this day. Thank the lord for TIVO!

ncexnyc
01-20-2009, 01:10 AM
I was thinking scoring more than anything else and having a player out of the game due to foul trouble. I think UNC can make up for that with Davis and Thompson and Duke could make up for some of it with a bench that has good experience (Paulus, Thomas, Zoubek, McClure). Kyle is a pretty valuable cog though. This is really splitting hairs. I just think because Teague has the ball in his hands a lot- and Wake is more inexperienced - they would miss him more.
Of the three players we are discussing, I feel Hasbro is the most expendable. I completely agree with you that Thompson and Davis are more than capable of picking up the slack and it would sure make Green, Lawson, and Ellington happy that they don't have to feed the ball hog.

Singler on the other hand is near impossible to replace with the combo of the 4 you mentioned. David is a very solid rebounder, but there isn't anyway he could even come near the 16 boards Kyle snagged the other day. As for picking up Kyle's scoring slack, Paulus is really the only one on your list who might be capable, but he plays a totally different position, so major adjustments would have to take place.

I said Teague was easier to replace, because Ish Smith, while certainly not the scorer Teague is, can more than manage running the point. Hale and L.D. Williams would then split time as the shooting guards role.