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View Full Version : MBB: Wake Forest 92, North Carolina 89



mike88
01-11-2009, 01:27 PM
After UNC vs Clemson, this is the (non-Duke) ACC game that I am most looking forward to seeing this year. Wake is deep and talented and I am sure Joel Coliseum will be loud and full of tie-dye and pinwheels tonight. UNC will be very motivated coming off their loss to BC. It should be a real battle. I am going to predict Wake winning 86-82, but this one seems like a real toss-up.

dukelifer
01-11-2009, 01:37 PM
After UNC vs Clemson, this is the (non-Duke) ACC game that I am most looking forward to seeing this year. Wake is deep and talented and I am sure Joel Coliseum will be loud and full of tie-dye and pinwheels tonight. UNC will be very motivated coming off their loss to BC. It should be a real battle. I am going to predict Wake winning 86-82, but this one seems like a real toss-up.

UNC has to win this game to show they are capable of winning a big game. If they lose- there are a lot of question marks going forward. Wake needs to play as hard as they can and treat this as a championship game. Should be close and a battle.

BCGroup
01-11-2009, 03:04 PM
My dad and uncle (huge WF fan) are on their way to the game--it should be a tough game. Everyone talks about Hansborough, but I think we are seeing the importance of Ginyard.

SupaDave
01-11-2009, 03:57 PM
If UNC lets Wake run like the College of Charleston - they can cancel it.

dukebballcamper90-91
01-11-2009, 05:14 PM
From looking @ box scores and that type of stuff, WEAK, plays no D. This might be one of them who has the ball last type games. I hate WEAK like I hate EWE N C, so I hope they both lose.

jimbonelson
01-11-2009, 05:16 PM
UNC by 10

mgtr
01-11-2009, 05:21 PM
I am not as passionate about either team as many are, but, on form, I have to agree with the notion of UNC by 10 or so. If they win by less than that, or if they lose, they are going to open the door to other teams who will think they can beat UNC.

Wander
01-11-2009, 05:56 PM
From looking @ box scores and that type of stuff, WEAK, plays no D.

Wake's defense is really good.

freedevil
01-11-2009, 06:18 PM
Wake tends to play a bit sloppy at times. If they play with more control, should be a good game, if they do not, Carolina will win by a lot.

RelativeWays
01-11-2009, 06:46 PM
I have a feeling WF isn't going to show up in this game... or rather they're going to try hard to take it to UNC they won't get a good offensive flow. UNc will still be angry and looking to prove something from a week ago. I pick the sheep by 15.

riverside6
01-11-2009, 06:53 PM
The efficiency predicted score has UNC winning 88-85, but that doesn't take into account home court advantage. Throw in the 3 point edge for the home court winner that Vegas usually gives and this one is a dead heat.

You can catch our live tempo-based stats here (http://www.scacchoops.com/ViewHDGame.asp?hSchedule=1982) if you're interested.

Oriole Way
01-11-2009, 07:13 PM
I really think Wake Forest has more pure talent than UNC, and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see this Wake team make a run at the Final Four and even win a title if they get hot in March.

If they can play good defense and improve their outside shooting, they can definitely beat UNC.

BlueintheFace
01-11-2009, 07:19 PM
I really think Wake Forest has more pure talent than UNC, and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see this Wake team make a run at the Final Four and even win a title if they get hot in March

... next year.

They are just too undisciplined. They will get there, but right now they have terrible communication on defense at times, and lack discipline and patience on offense. Those things will come, but boy o boy are they freaking athletic.

davekay1971
01-11-2009, 07:22 PM
What's the over-under on the number of free throws Hanstravel will shoot tonight?

On the positive side (at least for tonight), where does Jeff Teague rank among guards in the ACC right now? He was really good last year, but he has improved as much from last year to this as anybody I can think of in the conference (except, of course, Zoubs :D).

davekay1971
01-11-2009, 07:23 PM
And Hansflop can shoot that 3 as often as he wants...the more often, the better.

91.92.01DUKE
01-11-2009, 07:27 PM
Nice play WFU!
Athleticism FTW.

BlueintheFace
01-11-2009, 07:30 PM
Refs are letting it go at both ends... going to be a physical game. This is starting to look like an ACC trend no?

91.92.01DUKE
01-11-2009, 07:32 PM
Excellent defense from Wake 19-14 (Wake) early.

91.92.01DUKE
01-11-2009, 07:33 PM
Hansbrough makes another crap shot.

91.92.01DUKE
01-11-2009, 07:37 PM
Careless turnovers...

BlueintheFace
01-11-2009, 07:42 PM
Teague is a blur

JDev
01-11-2009, 07:47 PM
Both teams have clearly gotten a little winded, but the offense in the first 12 minutes of this game was sensational.

3rd Dukie
01-11-2009, 07:51 PM
What's the over-under on the number of free throws Hanstravel will shoot tonight?

On the positive side (at least for tonight), where does Jeff Teague rank among guards in the ACC right now? He was really good last year, but he has improved as much from last year to this as anybody I can think of in the conference (except, of course, Zoubs :D).

That kid, Teague, looks like the real deal thus far. Which one of our guys will guard him??

I'm impressed.

Coballs
01-11-2009, 07:53 PM
That kid, Teague, looks like the real deal thus far. Which one of our guys will guard him??

I'm impressed.

That would probably have to be Nolan.

3rd Dukie
01-11-2009, 07:58 PM
That would probably have to be Nolan.

That's what I would guess as well.

BlueintheFace
01-11-2009, 08:03 PM
Wake up 1 at the half. Interesting game.

FireOgilvie
01-11-2009, 08:06 PM
Wake up 1 at the half. Interesting game.

I'm pretty sure it's a tie game. 44-44.

Cameron
01-11-2009, 08:07 PM
Game tied, actually.

delfrio
01-11-2009, 08:07 PM
Teague is certainly good, but he looks very willing to take a shot at any opportunity. Seems like a prime candidate for shooting a team out of a game (something we could probably exploit).

BlueintheFace
01-11-2009, 08:08 PM
Game tied, actually.

whoops, my bad. Tied.

Cameron
01-11-2009, 08:11 PM
Anyone else completely tired of watching Tyler bounce and tumble into the lane and then flail his body into the sky, looking to grab anybody's attention he can?

What a sad, sad man.

Cameron
01-11-2009, 08:11 PM
I wasn't saying it to be cocky, Blue.

Sorry if that's how it was portrayed.

Cell-R
01-11-2009, 08:12 PM
I am tired of Tyler bouncing and bumbling as well.

When Hans doesn't get a call he seems almost bewildered. :eek:

Coballs
01-11-2009, 08:19 PM
Anyone else completely tired of watching Tyler bounce and tumble into the lane and then flail his body into the sky, looking to grab anybody's attention he can?

What a sad, sad man.

What are you talking about? I've never noticed him doing that.

Cameron
01-11-2009, 08:27 PM
Haha.

BlueintheFace
01-11-2009, 08:34 PM
roy gettin angry

Billy Dat
01-11-2009, 08:38 PM
Watching this game, it feels like either team could put a serious hurting on us because of their athleticism and talent...but since neither team plays defense the way we do, it's tough to tell how they would operate against better pressure.

Why don't teams let Hans take the 15 footer? He's fouling these guys out.

Teague is insane, he really came to play tonight. He's making Lawson look bad.

FireOgilvie
01-11-2009, 08:41 PM
I'm really not that impressed with Hansbrough this year. He's been really underwhelming, never dominant. He's not the player he was last year... probably because of injuries.

Billy Dat
01-11-2009, 08:43 PM
I can't stand Danny Green, but the kid is solid.

These Wake guards are nuts - Hale is tough!

Hans draws another foul, what a joke.

Where the heck is Wake's Johnson...the kid needs to assert himself.

BlueintheFace
01-11-2009, 08:44 PM
Where the heck is Wake's Johnson...the kid needs to assert himself.

Foul trouble. The whole wake frontcourt has foul trouble.

Cell-R
01-11-2009, 08:44 PM
Where the heck is Wake's Johnson...the kid needs to assert himself.

Probably trying not to foul out...

Billy Dat
01-11-2009, 08:50 PM
Gotcha - I missed a big chunk of the first half and am trying to do some work while I watch. Thanks for the heads-up.

That's one issue with us against these teams, I don't see us getting their front courts in foul trouble. I fear that both teams could get our whole team in foul trouble - serious quickness going on.

Make Hans shoot that jumper all day!

Billy Dat
01-11-2009, 08:58 PM
The Big East is really the best conference, eh? I agre with those on this thread that Wake could win the freakin title this year. These guys are loaded!

Coballs
01-11-2009, 09:00 PM
It's really too bad that this is Wake and UNC's only scheduled meeting this season. It would be nice to have one of these teams tagged with an extra L in the ACC standings. I HATE the unbalanced schedule.

BTW, I just went to the Roy Williams wikipedia site because I wanted to check out his career record and W-L percentage at UNC. While there, I learned some interesting things about Ol' Roy and his off the court endeavors. Look under the "early years and personal" section. Very interesting.....and hilarious.

Lavabe
01-11-2009, 09:00 PM
Beaker picked up his 4th with 6 min 54 sec to go.

Kim*
01-11-2009, 09:06 PM
So mad I can't watch this on tv right now, but I'm clinging to the play-by-play on Sportsline.com!

Billy Dat
01-11-2009, 09:06 PM
Beaker picked up his 4th with 6 min 54 sec to go.

He should have just had his 5th! (5:02 remaining, the kid on Wake got a cramp)

Marty10
01-11-2009, 09:07 PM
http://www.channelsurfing.net/watch-online-tv-2.php?w=cbb2k8

if u want to watch it online

Coballs
01-11-2009, 09:07 PM
I think Johnson just took the ACC play of the week away from G. Holy crap!

Billy Dat
01-11-2009, 09:07 PM
I'd say that alley-oop was Johnson asserting himself.

This is Wake's game to lose with 5 to go.

BlueintheFace
01-11-2009, 09:09 PM
Dare I say... TIME FOR STALL BALL!!!

FerryFor50
01-11-2009, 09:11 PM
This game is a PERFECT illustration of how overrated Hansbrough is.

Anytime he plays against a team with size/athleticism, he struggles. He has 17 points right now, but he has made 11 FTs. I'd be willing to say he hasn't been fouled as much as he's been fouling, but I digress...

Billy Dat
01-11-2009, 09:12 PM
Dare I say... TIME FOR STALL BALL!!!

HA HA HA...I was just thinking the same thing. Teague seems like he could do a Globtrotters Curly Neal routine and whittle this clock down by himself. He needs to put this one to bed down the stretch.

Billy Dat
01-11-2009, 09:15 PM
They are showing their youth...shooting too quick and not bleeding the shot clock and then trying to get to the line.

davekay1971
01-11-2009, 09:15 PM
Beaker picked up his 4th with 6 min 54 sec to go.

Do you think there's ANY possibility for him to pick up his fifth? He'd have to take out a .357 and blow someone's head off for the refs to hit him up with number 5.

And why is Hale jacking up a shot with 30 seconds left on the shot clock?

Coballs
01-11-2009, 09:18 PM
What is Hansbrough thinking jacking up that 3?

FerryFor50
01-11-2009, 09:19 PM
What is Hansbrough thinking jacking up that 3?

"I'm the player of the year!"

Billy Dat
01-11-2009, 09:19 PM
Good that Hans didn't foul out...he treated us to a nice brick 3 and the McFarlan run out deuce.

Too bad Ellington has caught fire...bad foul, Teague.

dbd4ever
01-11-2009, 09:20 PM
I agre with those on this thread that Wake could win the freakin title this year. These guys are loaded!

I agree they do look athletic, but lets not get carried away!! BC beat Carolina worse than this and nobody said anything about BC being any kind of contender for anything. This is a close game and Carolina isn't playing that great and that's definitely not due to Wake's defense!! Wake looks spent going down the stretch and they are definitely in foul trouble and the Tar Heels are still very much in this game. On top of all this, Jeff Teague is close to a career night. So this isn't something that's going to happen every night. Before tonight Wake has played nobody!!!! Let me say that again, NOBODY!!! They are part of the undefeated ACC teams that have had a cupcake schedule.(Clemson to say the least) I just wouldn't go christening anyone to make a title run just yet! We can beat both of these teams!! We beat a team yesterday that had more size and athleticism than both of these teams. Not quite the same talent but just as much athleticism!!!

Coballs
01-11-2009, 09:20 PM
Awful call on Ellington's missed 3? Typical,though. Hopefully, too little too late.

BlueintheFace
01-11-2009, 09:20 PM
It's a ft contest now...

Coballs
01-11-2009, 09:21 PM
"I'm the player of the year!"

Haha, yeah.

devildownunder
01-11-2009, 09:22 PM
Do you think there's ANY possibility for him to pick up his fifth? He'd have to take out a .357 and blow someone's head off for the refs to hit him up with number 5.

And why is Hale jacking up a shot with 30 seconds left on the shot clock?


Using a .44 would get him bounced as well -- he'd need an AK-47 for a technical though.

dbd4ever
01-11-2009, 09:24 PM
I just wish there was a way both of these teams could come away from this with a loss!!!

FireOgilvie
01-11-2009, 09:25 PM
Don't blow this, Wake!

Coballs
01-11-2009, 09:25 PM
I just wish there was a way both of these teams could come away from this with a loss!!!

Yeah, and as I posted earlier they don't meet again in the regular season. Unfortunate for Duke.

davekay1971
01-11-2009, 09:27 PM
I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.

BlueintheFace
01-11-2009, 09:27 PM
FT contest. get the ball to Teague

FerryFor50
01-11-2009, 09:27 PM
Ridiculous shot for Graves. Hope Wake doesn't blow this.

Billy Dat
01-11-2009, 09:29 PM
I agree they do look athletic, but lets not get carried away!! BC beat Carolina worse than this and nobody said anything about BC being any kind of contender for anything. This is a close game and Carolina isn't playing that great and that's definitely not due to Wake's defense!! Wake looks spent going down the stretch and they are definitely in foul trouble and the Tar Heels are still very much in this game. On top of all this, Jeff Teague is close to a career night. So this isn't something that's going to happen every night. Before tonight Wake has played nobody!!!! Let me say that again, NOBODY!!! They are part of the undefeated ACC teams that have had a cupcake schedule.(Clemson to say the least) I just wouldn't go christening anyone to make a title run just yet! We can beat both of these teams!! We beat a team yesterday that had more size and athleticism than both of these teams. Not quite the same talent but just as much athleticism!!!

I AM getting caught up...but the win at BYU was a very, very good win. Plus, Johnson and some of their other studs were quite. They've got the horses...

Lavabe
01-11-2009, 09:29 PM
Wake wins!!

tbyers11
01-11-2009, 09:29 PM
Teague just used the ref as a screen to get open that was a heady play

FireOgilvie
01-11-2009, 09:30 PM
0-2!!!!

davekay1971
01-11-2009, 09:30 PM
The Greatest Team Ever is now 0-2 in the ACC. Hmm, guess maybe we should go ahead and play the season after all...

tbyers11
01-11-2009, 09:30 PM
Wake wins, UNC starts 0-2 in conference!!

OZZIE4DUKE
01-11-2009, 09:30 PM
Most impressive effort by Wake!

Exiled_Devil
01-11-2009, 09:31 PM
0-2 UNC...I forget, does the regular season not count for them, or the ACC Tourney. Because at least one is not as likely as it was last month when they were still 'anointed ones'

CameronBornAndBred
01-11-2009, 09:31 PM
0-2 Loving it. McFarland is gonna give us nightmares I think.

Coballs
01-11-2009, 09:31 PM
UNC 0-2 in conference. Probably not what the Tarheel faithful were anticipating.

Billy Dat
01-11-2009, 09:31 PM
Wow - our 4 games against these guys are going to be wars.

Dr. Rosenrosen
01-11-2009, 09:33 PM
Teague just used the ref as a screen to get open that was a heady play

That was weird. I've never seen that happen before. It was like the ref was out of position and not ready for the ball to be inbounded.

Great win but the WFU fans are lame for rushing the court. Act like you're a top 5 team. Don't rush the court for UNC. Boooo.

Native
01-11-2009, 09:33 PM
I'm not one to trash talk UNC; but tonight I don't need to.

0-2 in the ACC speaks for itself. 9F!

dbd4ever
01-11-2009, 09:33 PM
I think we present just as many matchup problems for these two teams as they do us!!

BlueintheFace
01-11-2009, 09:34 PM
WF scares me a lot... Teague scares me a WHOLE LOT!

dukelifer
01-11-2009, 09:35 PM
Well I think I may have seen the best player in the ACC in this game and it is not Hansbrough or Lawson. Jeff Teague is a player. Wow. I am not sure who can stay with him. He is fearless going to the hoop. Wake has good players- but Teague makes them special. I was very impressed by what he did tonight. UNC is really struggling right now. Wake is very good. This will be a VERY hard team for Duke to play.

dbd4ever
01-11-2009, 09:35 PM
It sure would be nice to go to Wake on the 28th and end that little winning streak with a good ole trip to the woodshed!!!! GTHC!!!!

Cell-R
01-11-2009, 09:35 PM
Whoooooo!

0-2... Who would've imagined this?!

I guess UNC isn't the team from God after all :D

Duke79UNLV77
01-11-2009, 09:36 PM
Teague looks a little like the great Randolph Childress, although Childress was more of a shooter and Teague more of a driver. Anyways, I have now had similar man-crushes on both of them for scorching the Tar Holes.

darkblue2769
01-11-2009, 09:37 PM
I was really impressed/scared by how good Teague was tonight. That'll be a tough matchup for Nolan when we play WFU, not to mention all of the other tough matchups. Regardless, it made my day to see WFU take it to the Heels!

RainingThrees
01-11-2009, 09:37 PM
Right now I am content. Truely for this moment I am.

Ben63
01-11-2009, 09:38 PM
Newsflash- Jeff Teague is good. Scares me more than Tyrese Rice as a "Duke killer."

FerryFor50
01-11-2009, 09:38 PM
Teague looks a little like the great Randolph Childress, although Childress was more of a shooter and Teague more of a driver. Anyways, I have now had similar man-crushes on both of them for scorching the Tar Holes.

I was thinking the same, except Childress, if I remember, wasn't prone to running his mouth as much.

Oriole Way
01-11-2009, 09:39 PM
Wake Forest is the best team in the country right now. No one has the kind of talent that they have at the 2,3, and 4 spots (that says a lot, considering who Duke has).

Duke plays better defense than either team, but I don't think we can beat Wake or UNC because our offense is much worse than both. Wake can play good defense in addition to a great offense, so they will be our toughest matchup. UNC's offense and interior size advantage over us will make them hard for us to beat.

Wake is the class of the conference, though. I just don't see how we're going to beat them at Joel.

77devil
01-11-2009, 09:40 PM
To be anointed the dominant # 1 team in the nation you have to play outstanding defense. The holes play very mediocre defense at best.

dbd4ever
01-11-2009, 09:42 PM
Wake Forest is the best team in the country right now. No one has the kind of talent that they have at the 2,3, and 4 spots.

Duke plays better defense than either team, but I don't think we can beat Wake or UNC because our offense is much worse than both. Wake can play good defense, but UNC's offense and interior size advantage over us will make them hard for us to beat.

Wake is the class of the conference, though. I just don't see how we're going to beat them at Joel.

It must be nice to outlast the first good team you play in your own building and become "the class of the conference"!! Give me a break!

natedog4ever
01-11-2009, 09:44 PM
A little bit more came out of this than just another run of the mill UNC loss. Did anyone catch Deon Thompson screaming in Roy's face during the timeout at around 6 minutes to go? He then turned and screamed at one of the other players, and went out on the floor woofing at Green, who according to the announcers, told him to "just play". He came out soon thereafter and never played again. I have never seen anyone go off like that on a UNC head coach.

Maybe nothing. Then again, maybe not.

eddiehaskell
01-11-2009, 09:46 PM
Maybe UNC's NBA players have lost their motivation for the college game....

roywhite
01-11-2009, 09:46 PM
Wake Forest is the best team in the country right now. No one has the kind of talent that they have at the 2,3, and 4 spots (that says a lot, considering who Duke has).

Duke plays better defense than either team, but I don't think we can beat Wake or UNC because our offense is much worse than both. Wake can play good defense in addition to a great offense, so they will be our toughest matchup. UNC's offense and interior size advantage over us will make them hard for us to beat.

Wake is the class of the conference, though. I just don't see how we're going to beat them at Joel.

Wake is good, but can be beat. They can be beat at home and they can be beat by Duke.

Surely the Heels start should teach us:
1. Let's not rush to annoint a team as the best in the country, certainly so early in the season.
2. Any team can be beaten.

FerryFor50
01-11-2009, 09:46 PM
It must be nice to outlast the first good team you play in your own building and become "the class of the conference"!! Give me a break!

Agreed. I wanted a blowout win for Wake. Both teams are very solid, but also very susceptible to Duke.

Coballs
01-11-2009, 09:47 PM
Wake Forest is the best team in the country right now. No one has the kind of talent that they have at the 2,3, and 4 spots (that says a lot, considering who Duke has).

Duke plays better defense than either team, but I don't think we can beat Wake or UNC because our offense is much worse than both. Wake can play good defense in addition to a great offense, so they will be our toughest matchup. UNC's offense and interior size advantage over us will make them hard for us to beat.

Wake is the class of the conference, though. I just don't see how we're going to beat them at Joel.

Whoa, take it easy. Very good - yes. "Best team in the country" - highly debatable. Wake doesn't win this game if it's in the Dean Dome, IMO

Newton_14
01-11-2009, 09:47 PM
Hanstravels late 3 attempt along with several by others shows me these guys still do not get it. When the ol clock strikes 2 minutes left and they are down by any margin they bail on the offense and start jacking desperation 3's.

Glad for it obviously but they did not need 3's at that point. Especially the one hanswalks took. That shot gave Wake an easy 2 points and the holes end up losing by 3. Stupid basketball and I loved it! The greatest team in acc history is now 0 for 2 and in last place. Gotta love it!

Wake is really good and will only get better. Clemson is also really good as is FSU and possibly Miami. Add Duke to the list and this is shaping up to be the strongest that the ACC has been in several years. Kinda like the good ol days!

Another great "double" weekend with a Duke win and a hole loss! Good times!!

Duke79UNLV77
01-11-2009, 09:48 PM
I was thinking the same, except Childress, if I remember, wasn't prone to running his mouth as much.

His best move was when he faked mccinnness so bad that mccinness fell down. childress then looked over, motioned for mccinness to get up, and nailed yet another 3. would have cringed a bit for a duke guy to do that, but loved it from childress.

i also recall hearing him in that same acc tourney telling a big man on his own team who had just turned it over, "just get me the ball! every time!"

dukestheheat
01-11-2009, 09:49 PM
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha. Haaaahahahahahahahaaaaaaah! I am so glad, and the holes are all crying in hole-ville.

That Wake Forest team is going to be very, very tough to beat this year, especially on their home court. Very tough.

dth.

77devil
01-11-2009, 09:50 PM
Wake Forest is the best team in the country right now. No one has the kind of talent that they have at the 2,3, and 4 spots (that says a lot, considering who Duke has).

Duke plays better defense than either team, but I don't think we can beat Wake or UNC because our offense is much worse than both. Wake can play good defense in addition to a great offense, so they will be our toughest matchup. UNC's offense and interior size advantage over us will make them hard for us to beat.

Wake is the class of the conference, though. I just don't see how we're going to beat them at Joel.

Just a little hyperbole don't you think? I suppose you were making the same statement about UNC a couple of weeks ago.

FerryFor50
01-11-2009, 09:50 PM
His best move was when he faked mccinnness so bad that mccinness fell down. childress then looked over, motioned for mccinness to get up, and nailed yet another 3. would have cringed a bit for a duke guy to do that, but loved it from childress.

i also recall hearing him in that same acc tourney telling a big man on his own team who had just turned it over, "just get me the ball! every time!"

Those were the good ol' days.

Too bad he stunk it up in the NBA. He wasn't even any good in NBA Jam. :D

-bdbd
01-11-2009, 09:52 PM
Wow! I knew Wake would give em a good game, but they are really legit for National Title contention. Says a lot about the league that we have an early season match-up, tonight, of #4 vs #3 in the nation and neither is actually the highest rated in the league! Yes, I'm thrilled.

Wake will be a handful for us, for sure, but as one poster put it, the match-ups won't be easy for them either (vs Duke). Who there can go out on the exterior with Singler?? And we've got some pretty decent slashers ourselves...

But best of all, this really puts the 'holes in the hole as far as ACC (reg season) championship chances. Combine their 0-2 record with the fact that this is turning out to be a pretty deep league this year - Miami, Clemson, FSU, MD, VT - with MANY teams capable of beating the "top 3" on any given night, as well as making the Big Dance. Kinda exciting!

-BDBD :D :D :D :D

RainingThrees
01-11-2009, 09:53 PM
A little bit more came out of this than just another run of the mill UNC loss. Did anyone catch Deon Thompson screaming in Roy's face during the timeout at around 6 minutes to go? He then turned and screamed at one of the other players, and went out on the floor woofing at Green, who according to the announcers, told him to "just play". He came out soon thereafter and never played again. I have never seen anyone go off like that on a UNC head coach.

Maybe nothing. Then again, maybe not.

At what point in the game did this happen?

Newton_14
01-11-2009, 09:54 PM
Wake Forest is the best team in the country right now. No one has the kind of talent that they have at the 2,3, and 4 spots (that says a lot, considering who Duke has).

Duke plays better defense than either team, but I don't think we can beat Wake or UNC because our offense is much worse than both. Wake can play good defense in addition to a great offense, so they will be our toughest matchup. UNC's offense and interior size advantage over us will make them hard for us to beat.

Wake is the class of the conference, though. I just don't see how we're going to beat them at Joel.


Wake is really good but also really young. Top 10 team no doubt but they sure do not get a vote from me as best team in the country. And I have yet to see a team play that Duke cannot beat. This Duke team can beat anyone in the country on any court they tip it up on. Great defense and experience goes along way in this sport. And I will still take our 2, 3, and 4 players over anyone else's including Wake's.

FerryFor50
01-11-2009, 09:54 PM
At what point in the game did this happen?

I heard about it, too.

And Green didn't say a word to him when he sat down after fouling out.

BlueintheFace
01-11-2009, 09:55 PM
At what point in the game did this happen?

about 3.5 minutes left I think. Deon and Danny really got into it too.

trinity92
01-11-2009, 09:55 PM
Watching the end of this game reminded me of why we should never question coach K and the "stall" game. I found myself cringing on countless Wake possessions when they didn't run enough clock. A lead + fewer possessions= better mathematical chance of winning.

That Deacon front line will be a load for our team. Looking forward to the challenge.

Go Duke!

Ultrarunner
01-11-2009, 09:56 PM
Wake Forest is the best team in the country right now. No one has the kind of talent that they have at the 2,3, and 4 spots (that says a lot, considering who Duke has).

Duke plays better defense than either team, but I don't think we can beat Wake or UNC because our offense is much worse than both. Wake can play good defense in addition to a great offense, so they will be our toughest matchup. UNC's offense and interior size advantage over us will make them hard for us to beat.

Wake is the class of the conference, though. I just don't see how we're going to beat them at Joel.

Just my $.02 worth but I think I'll wait until we actually play the game. Our defense is much superior to WF which will greatly disrupt their offense. In the meantime, our offense has been hammered by some very good defensive clubs and a couple of unusual zones. It continues to get the job done as long as the kids stay focused - which is usually until they're up 25. The offense is okay. Not great but good enough.

But the defense has been incredible.

I disagree strongly on your assessment of the 2,3,4 slots on the respective teams.

roywhite
01-11-2009, 09:59 PM
After watching UNC in several wins and in their 2 losses, a quick take on what makes them vulnerable:

1. Injuries have hurt; Zeller was a player and they miss Ginyard, esp. on defense; his return is uncertain.
2. Ty Lawson can be outplayed (Ty Rice and Jeff Teague both outplayed him), and when that happens, UNC is beatable.
3. Hansbrough is good, obviously, but can be stymied by taller defenders
4. The Heels are simply not a top defensive team.

FerryFor50
01-11-2009, 09:59 PM
What scares me more about Wake is that front line - 3 or 4 skilled bigs. You can contain Teague, but those bigs will give us fits.

jv001
01-11-2009, 10:01 PM
Watching the end of this game reminded me of why we should never question coach K and the "stall" game. I found myself cringing on countless Wake possessions when they didn't run enough clock. A lead + fewer possessions= better mathematical chance of winning.

That Deacon front line will be a load for our team. Looking forward to the challenge.

Go Duke!

Yeh and what was Hale doing throwing up that shot early in the shot clock? Good to see unc 0-2 in the ACC. And they were going undefeated? Go Duke!

weezie
01-11-2009, 10:02 PM
about 3.5 minutes left I think. Deon and Danny really got into it too.

It was something else! UNC's biggest weakness was on display tonight, they're pretty slow-witted on the court. Wake got inside their empty heads, plenty of room in there, and the heels responded by turning on each other. A new low, even for unc.

The WF frontline though...geez..... and Teague is astonishing with that little tear drop shot. He is completely self-assured.

mapei
01-11-2009, 10:02 PM
If Wake hadn't missed so many FTs they would have had a double-digit win. Other than Teague, that looks like a vulnerable part of their game.

weezie
01-11-2009, 10:04 PM
4. The Heels are simply not a top defensive team.

Exactamundo.

jipops
01-11-2009, 10:04 PM
I think this game again shows that everyone else around the country, especially the northeast, shouldn't be in such a rush to anoint the Big East as the top conference in the land. We saw two incredibly talented and athletic heavy-weights tonight.

To put things in perspective for UNC they shouldn't be too down about this loss. I think most of the sting is actually still being felt from the BC loss where they completely laid an egg. Many thought that tonight was very a good possibility for putting one in the loss column for the heels. This was by no means a stunner. Wake may be arguably be the most talented team in the conference. They just lack some experience which is probably going to bite them a few times this season. UNC got pedestrian performances from every starter except Danny Green and still almost pulled it out on the road. I'd say they're still the best team in the country at this point. Obviously they have some issues with focus and communication as Green and Thompson displayed, but I'm sure they'll be just fine going forward.

Devilsfan
01-11-2009, 10:05 PM
Observations:
1. carolina has some real chemistry problems. Green wants to be their self-proclaimed leader and Thompson and Lawson aren't about to be led by a "sixth man". I think they still feel that way about him, imo.

2. Wake is unbelievably talented but extremely stupid. Their clock management or lack of it would have never ocurred under their coach, Skip Prosser.

3. Both teams are talented enough to reach the final four.

4. Hanstravel gets the benefit of the doubt even on the road.

5. Lawson may be too small for the league. Teague really showed him up tonight. Rice and Teague are both better than Lawson, imo.

BlueintheFace
01-11-2009, 10:07 PM
IC is honestly very entertaining right now. Truly.

ice-9
01-11-2009, 10:11 PM
Wake Forest is the best team in the country right now. No one has the kind of talent that they have at the 2,3, and 4 spots (that says a lot, considering who Duke has).

Duke plays better defense than either team, but I don't think we can beat Wake or UNC because our offense is much worse than both. Wake can play good defense in addition to a great offense, so they will be our toughest matchup. UNC's offense and interior size advantage over us will make them hard for us to beat.

Wake is the class of the conference, though. I just don't see how we're going to beat them at Joel.

According to Ken Pom, we have a better offense than Wake Forest does. We're ranked 21st whereas Wake is 47th. Although Wake is an elite defensive team, at 5th nationally, we are 1st.

I haven't watched the UNC-Wake game yet but I like our chances against Wake. We have several extremely capable defenders (Nolan, Scheyer, Henderson, McClure) that can cause problems for Teague, and I don't think they have anyone that can keep up with Singler.

Shut down Teague, shut down Wake Forest.

FireOgilvie
01-11-2009, 10:11 PM
After watching UNC in several wins and in their 2 losses, a quick take on what makes them vulnerable:

1. Injuries have hurt; Zeller was a player and they miss Ginyard, esp. on defense; his return is uncertain.
2. Ty Lawson can be outplayed (Ty Rice and Jeff Teague both outplayed him), and when that happens, UNC is beatable.
3. Hansbrough is good, obviously, but can be stymied by taller defenders
4. The Heels are simply not a top defensive team.

Zeller was decent, but he's not going to make them that much better.

Hansbrough is not a great defender vs. taller players. He also might be the worst 6'9" shot-blocker in history. He has 4 blocks on the year. For comparison, Scheyer has 5.

Acymetric
01-11-2009, 10:12 PM
IC is honestly very entertaining right now. Truly.

I'm certainly not going there, but what is the gist of whats going on?

mike88
01-11-2009, 10:15 PM
Well, I was a little off on the score, but this game played out about like I expected. Wake has some serious athleticism and depth. Despite some questionable decision making, they managed to hang on and win. Tyler's ill-fated 3 point attempt ended up being a difference maker, but how about Jeff Teague absolutely abusing Ty Lawson?

I think we are going to have a very difficult time at Wake (and at Clemson and at UNC as well). I am just not sure we have the bodies to compete with these teams on the glass. I am really looking forward to the Feb 22 game when Wake comes to Cameron- that should be a battle.

Based on what I've seen so far, I think 12-4 will win the league this year. Road victories against the top teams are going to be difficult if not impossible.

eddiehaskell
01-11-2009, 10:15 PM
With more than a few good teams, the ACC is going to be very fun to watch this year. Stiffer ACC competition will help all the NCAA tournament bound teams.

I know the national rankings wont show it when they start playing each other, but one could argue that the ACC has 4 of the 5 best teams in the country. :eek:

jipops
01-11-2009, 10:15 PM
IC is honestly very entertaining right now. Truly.

As entertaining as we are after a loss?

RainingThrees
01-11-2009, 10:16 PM
Zeller was decent, but he's not going to make them that much better.

Hansbrough is not a great defender vs. taller players. He also might be the worst 6'9" shot-blocker in history. He has 4 blocks on the year. For comparison, Scheyer has 5.

Hansbrough defense is taking the charge which for a 6 foot 9 player is very weak and imo. This year all hansbrough does is score. If he's the NPOY it will be a total joke. Michael Beasley bested him last year and Curry and Griffin are better this year.

devildownunder
01-11-2009, 10:18 PM
Watching the end of this game reminded me of why we should never question coach K and the "stall" game. I found myself cringing on countless Wake possessions when they didn't run enough clock. A lead + fewer possessions= better mathematical chance of winning.

That Deacon front line will be a load for our team. Looking forward to the challenge.

Go Duke!

1.Wake never had a big enough lead in this game to comtemplate sitting back, relaxing and sucking the air out of the ball.

2.Even if they had, it would've been a bad idea. Stall ball = prevent defense.

yancem
01-11-2009, 10:18 PM
Great day to be wearing the colors black and gold! This was a great game and shows that UNC is not heads and shoulders above the rest of the conference let alone the country. Wake is definitely a dangerous team. Their only real weakness is lack experience. My guess is that they will suffer at least 1-2 losses to teams they have no business losing too.

Teague was phenomenal and will be tough to guard but before everyone anoints him as the greatest, remember who was primarily guarding him. Lawson is not only not a good defender but is also short. I'm not saying that Smith will or can shut him down, but I'm willing to bet that he will make Teague work harder to get shots than Lawson did.

Hansolo looked fairly pedestrian in the game and really seemed to be settling for the 10-15 ft. jumpers. I think that any team that is able to successfully limit his inside the lane scoring chances and get him to settle for jump shots is going to have a chance for winning.

Lastly, as much as I hate to say this, Danny Green can play. He may be my least favorite UNC player of the last decade, but the dude can play. I didn't think that it would be possible, but he may play himself into a first round draft pick after all.

Great day in sports!!! 9f 9f 9f 9f 9f 9f 9f!!!!!!!!

CameronBornAndBred
01-11-2009, 10:20 PM
1.Wake never had a big enough lead in this game to comtemplate sitting back, relaxing and sucking the air out of the ball.

2.Even if they had, it would've been a bad idea. Stall ball = prevent defense.
They did stall it, very late, and it almost bit them in the azz. It wouldn't have been so close if they kept up their momentum.

Duvall
01-11-2009, 10:21 PM
As entertaining as we are after a loss?

More.

(How? Volume.)

devildownunder
01-11-2009, 10:23 PM
Hansolo looked fairly pedestrian in the game and really seemed to be settling for the 10-15 ft. jumpers.

Great day in sports!!! 9f 9f 9f 9f 9f 9f 9f!!!!!!!!


Please do not associate one of the all-time great movie characters with that bug-eyed smurf.

Thank you very much.

BlueintheFace
01-11-2009, 10:23 PM
As entertaining as we are after a loss?

Far more.

Title thread title's include:

"No more faith in roy"
"Awful"
"Tyler gets preferential treatment"
"Our Defense Sucks"
"Should Davis or Graves start over Thompson"
"Lack of Leadership"
"Well at least we are not peaking too early" (My favorite title)
"This is the worst moment in human history" (My runner up)
"So mad/disappointed I could cry"

Some particularly awesome comments:

"Goodbye National Championship"
"I doubt we will be top 3 in ACC"
"If our team were a car, it would be pinto. Sure it looks kind of cool, but if it gets hit, it blows up and where does that leave you? In the hospital without a National Championship. Try and argue with that logic!"

mgtr
01-11-2009, 10:23 PM
Hey folks, its all good! Kurlina loses another game. They may drop out of the top ten. Maybe people will start notice that we have a tough conference -- clearly much tougher than the Big 10/11, and probably tougher than the Big Easy. :D

BlueintheFace
01-11-2009, 10:27 PM
Another IC thread title.

"Should we Murder Roy Williams or Simply Fire Him."

I'm so embarrassed, but I am enthralled by that board right now...

Oriole Way
01-11-2009, 10:27 PM
Just a little hyperbole don't you think? I suppose you were making the same statement about UNC a couple of weeks ago.

Not at all, I have always thought that UNC is not the best team in the country for a while, because they can't play great defense. I would actually say their defense is bad. My post criticizing Jay Bilas (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?p=239081#post239081) for singing the praises of Carolina expresses my thoughts about Carolina, which I have felt since the beginning of the season, and since last season, since the team is largely the same. I also made a similar post (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?p=237043#post237043) during the BC game.

Thanks for dismissing my opinion and assuming what I think, though.

yancem
01-11-2009, 10:27 PM
Please do not associate one of the all-time great movie characters with that bug-eyed smurf.

Thank you very much.

I understand your sentiment but it might be a hard habit to break. I've been calling him that for almost 2 years.

trinity92
01-11-2009, 10:29 PM
Far more.

Title thread title's include:

"No more faith in roy"
"Awful"
"Tyler gets preferential treatment"
"Our Defense Sucks"
"Should Davis or Graves start over Thompson"
"Lack of Leadership"
"Well at least we are not peaking too early" (My favorite title)
"This is the worst moment in human history" (My runner up)
"So mad/disappointed I could cry"

Some particularly awesome comments:

"Goodbye National Championship"
"I doubt we will be top 3 in ACC"
"If our team were a car, it would be pinto. Sure it looks kind of cool, but if it gets hit, it blows up and where does that leave you? In the hospital without a National Championship. Try and argue with that logic!"

My current favorite thread on IC:

"Should we murder Roy Williams or merely fire him."

Honest to god.

SupaDave
01-11-2009, 10:29 PM
Far more.

Title thread title's include:

"No more faith in roy"
"Awful"
"Tyler gets preferential treatment"
"Our Defense Sucks"
"Should Davis or Graves start over Thompson"
"Lack of Leadership"
"Well at least we are not peaking too early" (My favorite title)
"This is the worst moment in human history" (My runner up)
"So mad/disappointed I could cry"

Some particularly awesome comments:

"Goodbye National Championship"
"I doubt we will be top 3 in ACC"
"If our team were a car, it would be pinto. Sure it looks kind of cool, but if it gets hit, it blows up and where does that leave you? In the hospital without a National Championship. Try and argue with that logic!"

This is comedy but the IC does explode. AND they love to relate it somehow to us. They just go bananas.

CameronBornAndBred
01-11-2009, 10:33 PM
This is comedy but the IC does explode. AND they love to relate it somehow to us. They just go bananas.

My favorite so far... (From the Should we Murder Roy Williams or Simply Fire Him thread)

"No dude. This **** is ******* serious. Youre not a fan if you wont consider this as seriously as you would consider free will vs predestination. Jesus hates you right now."

natedog4ever
01-11-2009, 10:34 PM
Another IC thread title.

"Should we Murder Roy Williams or Simply Fire Him."

I'm so embarrassed, but I am enthralled by that board right now...

You know what though? If you wade through all the idiotic, half-witted, garbage over there, you will find some real gems.

There was a thread on Lawson and Ellington coming back to school because they are so terrible. In all the drivel I found this absolute gold nugget:

Talked to Wayne's dad after the Rutgers game, told me point blank WAYNE is gone after this season!!!!! Someone is putting some foolish ideas in his head. Told me Wayne would be picked 15-20 in the 1st round and if he got his shot going LOTTO!!!!!!!

I said to myself what is this guy smokin?

This kind of stuff is priceless, whether it is authentic or not.

phaedrus
01-11-2009, 10:37 PM
I watched the game at the Federal on Main Street. They played "Oh My Sweet Carolina" as the clock ticked down. So great.

Oriole Way
01-11-2009, 10:41 PM
According to Ken Pom, we have a better offense than Wake Forest does. We're ranked 21st whereas Wake is 47th. Although Wake is an elite defensive team, at 5th nationally, we are 1st.

I haven't watched the UNC-Wake game yet but I like our chances against Wake. We have several extremely capable defenders (Nolan, Scheyer, Henderson, McClure) that can cause problems for Teague, and I don't think they have anyone that can keep up with Singler.

Shut down Teague, shut down Wake Forest.

I understand Ken Pom is a great indicator, but it's not the authority on evaluating offenses. I have watched both teams play a good bit, and watched every televised Duke game, and Wake's offense is miles ahead of Duke's. What will do us in is our trademark 5+ minute drought in the second half. Our great defense can only do so much if we can't score. I expect a game closer to the second Michigan game than any of our others this season.

It's not going to be as easy as shutting down Teague. We're going to need to stay out of foul trouble and get a career game from Zoubek, because he is our only chance of neutralizing Wake on the offensive glass, where we were obliterated last year at Joel.

Oriole Way
01-11-2009, 10:44 PM
Wake is really good but also really young. Top 10 team no doubt but they sure do not get a vote from me as best team in the country. And I have yet to see a team play that Duke cannot beat. This Duke team can beat anyone in the country on any court they tip it up on. Great defense and experience goes along way in this sport. And I will still take our 2, 3, and 4 players over anyone else's including Wake's.

I certainly respect your opinion, and you could turn out to be right, but I don't think we can beat Wake at Joel. All we have to do is look at last season's game, where both teams were largely the same, except for a year younger. They crushed us on the glass and ran us off the floor. Considering they circle Duke on their schedule, maybe even more so than Carolina, and we have our least winnable game of the season. One of Wake's problems last year was their inconsistency; they would beat Duke and then play down to the level of the lower-tier ACC teams in other games, and struggle on the road. But a lot of that was attributable to youth and inexperience, and they have greatly improved this year.

It's probably a safe bet that this Wake team will lose a game against one or two ACC opponents they have no business losing to, much like how UNC lost to BC. But the only other team besides Wake that can make a legitimate case for number 1 at this stage is Pitt, and they have a gauntlet of a conference schedule to go through. Wake's schedule hasn't been the toughest, but their win at BYU stopping a 53-game (or around that number) home court win streak was extremely impressive.

This Wake team reminds me a little of the first Florida national championship team, except this team is making waves much sooner.

RainingThrees
01-11-2009, 10:44 PM
My favorite so far... (From the Should we Murder Roy Williams or Simply Fire Him thread)

"No dude. This **** is ******* serious. Youre not a fan if you wont consider this as seriously as you would consider free will vs predestination. Jesus hates you right now."

HAHA!! I hear so much stuff of this stuff where I live in NC. Most people here are what you would call "country folk." The population is about 20% Duke.

jv001
01-11-2009, 10:49 PM
I understand Ken Pom is a great indicator, but it's not the authority on evaluating offenses. I have watched both teams play a good bit, and watched every televised Duke game, and Wake's offense is miles ahead of Duke's. What will do us in is our trademark 5+ minute drought in the second half. Our great defense can only do so much if we can't score. I expect a game closer to the second Michigan game than any of our others this season.

It's not going to be as easy as shutting down Teague. We're going to need to stay out of foul trouble and get a career game from Zoubek, because he is our only chance of neutralizing Wake on the offensive glass, where we were obliterated last year at Joel.

I agree we will have our hands full with Wake. They really get up for us and play with a lot of confidence. Teague will be a tough match up, but our switching man to man will help in that regard. He is so quick with the ball. Their front line will be a tough match up also. We will have to stay out of foul trouble and as some have said we may see more of Miles in this game. We can beat them but we will have to play one of our best games of the year. Go Duke!

77devil
01-11-2009, 10:52 PM
Not at all, I have always thought that UNC is not the best team in the country for a while, because they can't play great defense. I would actually say their defense is bad. My post criticizing Jay Bilas (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?p=239081#post239081) for singing the praises of Carolina expresses my thoughts about Carolina, which I have felt since the beginning of the season, and since last season, since the team is largely the same. I also made a similar post (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?p=237043#post237043) during the BC game.

Thanks for dismissing my opinion and assuming what I think, though.

Gee, those were impressive insights during and after the BC loss.

Oriole Way
01-11-2009, 10:59 PM
Gee that's impressive insight during and after the BC loss.

That's what I've thought all year, I didn't feel the need to share my opinions about Carolina before then on a Duke board, so please excuse me. If you don't want to take my word for it, then fine, but I'd appreciate it if you'd quit trying to pick a fight.

ncexnyc
01-11-2009, 11:06 PM
A very entertaining game. Wake looked good, but then so did BC last week and we saw where that got them this week.

There is quite abit of talent in this league and I am fairly certain all of the top teams will have a number of losses by the end of the season.

I think it's safe to say Ginyard is crucial to UNC. Not only is he outstanding defensively, but he isn't a wash on the offensive end.

Cameron
01-11-2009, 11:08 PM
I don't normally travel over to IC, but this one, from the "Danny is Our MVP, not Tyler..." thread, is quite funny.

Danny is our leader, not Tyler...or Roy for that matter.
Danny Green is the only player that shows any sort of hunger on this team.
Danny Green will be the reason we win the 2009 National Title.

Tyler being thrown under the bus two games into his senior ACC schedule is a beautiful thing.

While I am at it, here's a whole list of things from the "Does the Wake Game Scare You At All?" thread during pre-game:

No. they have played no one, just like stanford.

They are the type of team that has the youth, talent, and athleticism to try to run with us...and our guys may even get up for that game. Two very bad signs for Wake. 20+ pt victory

No, playing weak competition just means they won't be ready for what UNC throws at them because they haven't faced anything close to an elite squad all season.

For good measure, there is also this thread title:

"Kendall Marshall similar to Jason Kidd?"

I'm officially leaving their site now, but that was fun while I was there.

I am, however, officially scared about traveling to Wake. Going to be a tough one. I'm hoping Miles is ready. God knows we will need his extra fouls inside.

Kimist
01-11-2009, 11:17 PM
1 - It looks as if getting into Lawson's head can severely bother his game.

1a - Actually, it looks as if getting into any tarhole player's head can now create an advantage!

2 - Internal bickering among the unc starters/bench/coach? WOW !!!

3 - When Tyler does not get his usual "breaks" he looks a lot less fearsome. I was worried the world might come to an end if he actually fouled out, but then reality returned. It was icing on the cake when T took that ill-advised three and then had Wake going for a layup at the other end.

4 - Wake has great talent, and potential, but what remains to be seen is how consistent they can be when they are playing good teams other than Duke/unc and somewhere other than in Winston-Salem.

5 - Teague scares me, but he seems to have his head on straight a lot better than the last "good" Wake guard.

My guess is the ACC tourney this year will be one for the ages!

k

phaedrus
01-11-2009, 11:20 PM
Wake Forest is the best team in the country right now. No one has the kind of talent that they have at the 2,3, and 4 spots (that says a lot, considering who Duke has).


I hope you explain this one a little better. Teague plays point guard the vast majority of the time, not the 2, and if you think Wake's 3 and 4 are superior to Singler and Henderson, you surely did not glean such information from this game, where Aminu and Johnson scored 9 points apiece. Nor was Wake's inside play in general particularly impressive; they were outrebounded by 11. UNC-CH's 17 offensive boards were what kept them in the game; Teague won this one for Wake.

Regarding last year's game at Wake, I hope we can agree that Duke's rebounding has improved substantially since then - otherwise there's little reason to hope that we will avoid that team's fate in the tourney.

BlueintheFace
01-11-2009, 11:28 PM
... yah, the Deon Thompson-Roy Williams shouting match on the bench doesn't seem healthy

Ultrarunner
01-11-2009, 11:30 PM
I certainly respect your opinion, and you could turn out to be right, but I don't think we can beat Wake at Joel. All we have to do is look at last season's game, where both teams were largely the same, except for a year younger. They crushed us on the glass and ran us off the floor. Considering they circle Duke on their schedule, maybe even more so than Carolina, and we have our least winnable game of the season. One of Wake's problems last year was their inconsistency; they would beat Duke and then play down to the level of the lower-tier ACC teams in other games, and struggle on the road. But a lot of that was attributable to youth and inexperience, and they have greatly improved this year. ...

This Wake team reminds me a little of the first Florida national championship team, except this team is making waves much sooner.

I know, I know, you don't ever think we can beat anybody. But just in case you didn't notice, we're rebounding a hell of a lot better than last year. And our defense is even better than last year - faster, quicker, able to leap tall buildings. Offensively, we do okay but Wake is not that much better. Wake is susceptible to a team that can disrupt its tempo. Carolina played poorly and with no heart tonight (to cite the latest example - starting to like ol' Roy coaching UNC-CH(oke)) yet nearly won on the road.

I understand that part of the allure of WF are the terrific freshmen in the paint. Did you notice that the entire frontline either fouled out or was on the verge of it? Playing Wake will not be a gimmee by any stretch but the sackcloth and ashes routine might be overdoing it a mite. Wake can be had and our squad this year is showing the signs of toughness that have been lacking for about 5 years.

The idea for the past few seasons seems to have been to rough up Duke and you can force us off our game has not been successful this year. Michigan didn't beat us by playing more physical or athletic ball - they beat us by daring us to drain threes. We didn't and they won. Wake won't play that style and that will be to our advantage.

A couple of questions - How well do freshmen normally hold up over the course of a longer collegiate season? How often do they get surprised by savvy juniors and seniors?

For reference, see Singler(2007-08) and Scheyer (2006-07).

devildownunder
01-11-2009, 11:34 PM
I understand your sentiment but it might be a hard habit to break. I've been calling him that for almost 2 years.

It's not too late. There is still good in you. I can feel the conflict.

duketaylor
01-11-2009, 11:39 PM
like the Seinfeld episode and the marriage in India. I missed the entire game, saw a final score on XM radio as I left work. Couldn't find any highlights on the 4-letter, so I looked here and decided to start with page 8 and go backwards. It's absolutely precious. Very entertaining.

0-2, HAHA, 9F9F9F9F9F9F9F9F
That makes for some mighty sweet tasting adult beverages after work;)

OZZIE, we're due for a round of golf before too long. Maybe get Carlos involved, will need a fourth.

Acymetric
01-11-2009, 11:40 PM
... yah, the Deon Thompson-Roy Williams shouting match on the bench doesn't seem healthy

If the situation played out the way I understand it to have (with Green eventually telling Thompson to "just play" when Thompson kept arguing) then I have to give Green some credit. It almost makes up for his awful dancing. At least the guy cares and enjoys it.

Oriole Way
01-11-2009, 11:48 PM
I hope you explain this one a little better. Teague plays point guard the vast majority of the time, not the 2, and if you think Wake's 3 and 4 are superior to Singler and Henderson, you surely did not glean such information from this game, where Aminu and Johnson scored 9 points apiece. Nor was Wake's inside play in general particularly impressive; they were outrebounded by 11. UNC-CH's 17 offensive boards were what kept them in the game; Teague won this one for Wake.

Regarding last year's game at Wake, I hope we can agree that Duke's rebounding has improved substantially since then - otherwise there's little reason to hope that we will avoid that team's fate in the tourney.

I consider Teague a 2 guard at the next level, but you're right, he handles the point a majority of the time. In that case, I will correct myself and say that Wake has the best 1,3, and 4 in the country. It definitely saves me the difficult argument of comparing them to Scheyer, Henderson, and Singler, which is a losing proposition for me either way.

I definitely didn't base that on this game, I'm basing it on those two young kids' talent, size, and athleticism. I don't want to say I'd rather have Johnson and Aminu instead of Singler and Henderson, since Duke's kids are two of the most talented players in the nation and they're great kids. They play for Duke and I root for them. But Johnson and Aminu are the most talented 3 and 4 combo I've seen in college basketball, just my opinion.

I'm not surprised their interior got out-rebounded by UNC - UNC has the best rebounding post in the conference, and a very efficient rotation of post players when it comes to scoring. Even though they lost, Hansbrough, Thompson, Davis, and even Green will outrebound and outscore a vast majority of teams. That explains why Wake's post players had so much foul trouble. They very well could run into foul trouble against us, but if that happens, you can be fairly certain that Zoubek and Thomas are already fouled out and have been long gone. It's when Wake is matched up against us that I get concerned, since Aminu, Johnson, and McFarland will have a distinct rebounding advantage, especially since our best rebounder only gets 17 minutes a game or less.

dukelifer
01-12-2009, 06:09 AM
I consider Teague a 2 guard at the next level, but you're right, he handles the point a majority of the time. In that case, I will correct myself and say that Wake has the best 1,3, and 4 in the country. It definitely saves me the difficult argument of comparing them to Scheyer, Henderson, and Singler, which is a losing proposition for me either way.

I definitely didn't base that on this game, I'm basing it on those two young kids' talent, size, and athleticism. I don't want to say I'd rather have Johnson and Aminu instead of Singler and Henderson, since Duke's kids are two of the most talented players in the nation and they're great kids. They play for Duke and I root for them. But Johnson and Aminu are the most talented 3 and 4 combo I've seen in college basketball, just my opinion.

I'm not surprised their interior got out-rebounded by UNC - UNC has the best rebounding post in the conference, and a very efficient rotation of post players when it comes to scoring. Even though they lost, Hansbrough, Thompson, Davis, and even Green will outrebound and outscore a vast majority of teams. That explains why Wake's post players had so much foul trouble. They very well could run into foul trouble against us, but if that happens, you can be fairly certain that Zoubek and Thomas are already fouled out and have been long gone. It's when Wake is matched up against us that I get concerned, since Aminu, Johnson, and McFarland will have a distinct rebounding advantage, especially since our best rebounder only gets 17 minutes a game or less.

Wake is a very talented team- but soon they will be the hunted and not the hunter. That changes a lot. Teague is great but if he is stopped- Wake is not the same. They are relying on him to lift them up. Wake will also need to become a better defensive team to make a long post season run. But right now- they are on a roll and looking good. In the end- UNC will right the ship. Unfortunately, Roy has their attention now. They played pretty poorly yesterday and still were within a possession of tying or winning. UNC is a very good team. All we know is that they are beatable and they now know it too. Interesting what a couple of weeks can do. I just hope they have another such slump come late March.

Virginian
01-12-2009, 06:56 AM
One game shouldn't cause us to replace UNC with Wake as "the team for the ages."

Wake played well but gave up lots of points to a poor-shooting opponent.

Wake's half-court offense, in the three or four times they were forced into it, was really poor. Just five guys standing around flat-footed waiting for Teague to make another run at the basket.

It's going to be an interesting ACC season but we shouldn't be anointing Wake as the top dog yet.

IMO.

Delaware
01-12-2009, 07:14 AM
UNC = Hillary Clinton... annointed before the primaries and they are already running a pretty poor campaign!

BlueDevilJay
01-12-2009, 07:29 AM
Do you think there's ANY possibility for him to pick up his fifth? He'd have to take out a .357 and blow someone's head off for the refs to hit him up with number 5.

And why is Hale jacking up a shot with 30 seconds left on the shot clock?

This is hilarious, as my dad and I said the EXACT same thing when watching the game last night. I said he would have to pull out a knife and stab someone in order to be whistled for a 5th, dad made the gun reference. Hi comedy, as always, when UNC-CH loses a game. OHHHHH and TWO!

BlueDevilJay
01-12-2009, 07:32 AM
Teague looks a little like the great Randolph Childress, although Childress was more of a shooter and Teague more of a driver. Anyways, I have now had similar man-crushes on both of them for scorching the Tar Holes.

AND my dad and I both made this exact same comparison last night in my living room, saying just how much he reminded us of Childress, also a UNC-CH killer. Good stuff!

pamtar
01-12-2009, 07:41 AM
For the record, I picked Wake to win the ACC like two months ago. (Even though the pick was solely in my head, and not relayed to any one person verbally or in writing.)

These guys are well coached, fast, and driven. I hate to say it but they may be the second best team in the country besides Pitt. Pitt will win it all. (Picked that 5 minutes after they beat us last year.)

UNC has no answer for a guard (Teague) as fast as Lawson. It throws their game plan way off. Nolan is getting faster by the game, so we are looking pretty good.

77devil
01-12-2009, 07:57 AM
Pitt will win it all. (Picked that 5 minutes after they beat us last year.)

Pitt against the field. I'll take that bet. Let me know if you want to make a wager.;)

moonpie23
01-12-2009, 07:58 AM
holes had a bad night........don't count them out......too much talent there....if ol' roy figures out how to get them on the same page, they're back to dominating..


that being said, the tension convention on the sideline last night told a lot about the team and what they are going thru..

it's a fact they can be had.......speedy guard play making ty lawson wishing he had stayed in the draft now matter HOW far down....

elvis14
01-12-2009, 08:17 AM
I just wanted to say how nice it is to start my second consecutive week savoring an ACC win for Duke and an ACC loss for UNC. All just seems right with the world when this happens.

I only got to watch the first half but it was very fun to watch (well except for the refs Hansblahblah love!). I'm really looking forward to our games against Wake and UNC. They will be highly contested and played at a high level. I'm looking forward to some great games!

hurleyfor3
01-12-2009, 08:26 AM
Our two losses in '92 (and '99, for that matter) were already better losses than unc's this year.

I'm of two minds here. The '93 unc team lost back-to-back games early in the regular season, but took care of business otherwise and walked away with the title. OTOH, at this point, you have to wonder about unc's focus, and focus is an issue that doesn't go away after a few games. I was thinking unc would go in there and drop a 20-25 point victory on Wake, but now... do they have the will to be ready to play every time out? Can they repeatedly pull out the close games like Dean's teams always could?

Unc can recover from this, but they've lost a lot of "benefit of the doubt" intangibles for some time.

davekay1971
01-12-2009, 08:27 AM
I got up this morning and heard the birds singing in the trees outside my window. I thought, "That's odd...birds singing in January?" I got up, got ready for work, kissed my beautiful wife on the forehead as she was sleeping, tried not to wake the baby on my way out, and was startled upon getting outside to see how blue and cloudless the sky was. The air was crisp and clean, a lovely winter morning in North Carolina. But the sky, it was just so blue. Not at all a Carolina blue...it was a few shades more royal today.

Carlos
01-12-2009, 08:50 AM
Wake will be a handful for us, for sure, but as one poster put it, the match-ups won't be easy for them either (vs Duke). Who there can go out on the exterior with Singler?? And we've got some pretty decent slashers ourselves...

Either Aminu or Johnson would be ideal matchups for defending Singler.

SMO
01-12-2009, 08:56 AM
A little bit more came out of this than just another run of the mill UNC loss. Did anyone catch Deon Thompson screaming in Roy's face during the timeout at around 6 minutes to go? He then turned and screamed at one of the other players, and went out on the floor woofing at Green, who according to the announcers, told him to "just play". He came out soon thereafter and never played again. I have never seen anyone go off like that on a UNC head coach.

Maybe nothing. Then again, maybe not.

I did catch that, and immediately recalled some of us suggesting UNC could have chemistry problems in some posts over the summer. We were promptly told my an all-knowing poster that chemistry problems are wishful thinking and discussed every year. Silly us.

DukeDevilDeb
01-12-2009, 09:00 AM
For the record, I picked Wake to win the ACC like two months ago. (Even though the pick was solely in my head, and not relayed to any one person verbally or in writing.)

These guys are well coached, fast, and driven. I hate to say it but they may be the second best team in the country besides Pitt. Pitt will win it all. (Picked that 5 minutes after they beat us last year.)

UNC has no answer for a guard (Teague) as fast as Lawson. It throws their game plan way off. Nolan is getting faster by the game, so we are looking pretty good.

Am I in a time warp? It's 1991 and everyone is saying that UNLV is unbeatable. If you haven't ever seen it, try to get the video of that season which is called Duke IS KING (I think). It has great clips of the road to the final four. But I absolutely LOVE the section where interviewers are asking the experts basically does Duke have a chance against UNLV, especially given the fact that they beat us badly the year before (as Pitt beat us last year... by a point, as I recall)!

So I suggest that all of us enjoy the moment... 0-2 in the ACC is not something we usually have to celebrate! :D But let's not award Wake the ACC crown or Pitt the National Championship just yet. In their last two games, the Heels have seen why you can't win by acclimation... there is a reason you have to actually play the game!

But more important than enjoying Carolina's stats, let's rejoice in the fact that we beat a very good FSU team at their house... a place that has always been difficult for us. We did well against them last year but have had a series of tough wins over the years in Florida. We are 2-0 against two very good teams. :)

Carlos
01-12-2009, 09:21 AM
I certainly respect your opinion, and you could turn out to be right, but I don't think we can beat Wake at Joel. All we have to do is look at last season's game, where both teams were largely the same, except for a year younger.

Sorry, but both teams are nowhere near the same teams that they were last season. For Duke, the emergence of Zoubek changes the frontcourt considerably. In last season's game, Kyle played 31 minutes while Thomas (15), McClure (11), and Zoubek (4) accounted for a combined 30 minutes. That means that Duke played either Henderson or Taylor King at the 4 spot for extensive minutes and that Kyle likely played a bunch of time at the 5. We're just not seeing that happening this year as much.

The other thing that's changed for Duke is that Nolan Smith is playing the point which makes for a much better defense at not only that position, but also the entire team as well.

Finally, Gerald Henderson has definitely evolved as a player, adding another dynamic to the chemistry of the squad.

All that bodes well for Duke but on the other side of the ledger is a Wake Forest team that has changed a bunch as well. Last season they used a 3-guard lineup with James Johnson and Chas McFarland in the frontcourt. When either of those big guys got in foul trouble they would go to either Jamie Skeen or David Weaver. Skeen's no longer around after transferring out but that doesn't mean that the team took a step backwards. Instead, they're much improved.

Adding Aminu turns the team from a smaller 3-guard lineup into one of the biggest in the league. Adding Tony Woods means that they can keep a large team on the floor even if they have foul trouble.

I see both teams as different squads than they were last season.

RPS
01-12-2009, 09:26 AM
The week-end was great, obviously, but it's way too early to draw definitive conclusions. Wake has great potential (duh) but needs to be a bit less reliant on Teague. Unfortunately, Dino can still point to several areas which need significant improvement. They didn't rebound well (typical of a young and athletic team to get fundamentally sloppy -- box out!), didn't run their half-court sets very well, and had trouble getting Johnson and Aminu involved offensively. Wake can get a lot better (especially being so young).

Carolina was lousy, but I'm not ready to call the ME in yet. I expect Ol' Roy to get everybody back on the same page again in good order. Clearly, the players thought the BC game was a fluke (which in large measure it was) and not to be too worried about. But they've lost two now, and Wake doesn't look like a fluke. Short of a full implosion (which I highly doubt), Ol' Roy should have their focused attention now. The Holes are less than we feared before the season and have had some weaknesses exposed, but I expect them to be very good still.

Our strengths and weaknesses should make the 4 games against Wake and Carolina very interesting. For example, our offense consciously gives up some rebounding for other benefits but puts us at risk against athletic rebounding teams. But we present defensive problems against us too and play better D than either Carolina or Wake. It should be a fun ride.

JStuart
01-12-2009, 09:30 AM
This was in one of the forum posts on the UNC section on WRAL TV's website:
" RE: Disgusted w/ Heels
Sorry it was at the 6:16 mark when Deon yelled at Roy then Danny. This team has no love for each other. Everyone knows what happen in the tunnel before the Kansas game at the final four. Then Lawson's remark about what Roy would do to him about the DWI, "ahh, probably nothing, might make me run some laps or something." Roy can't coach and he won't be at Carolina long. The Santa Clara game, are you kidding me? That was the first game of the year with no Felton. The heels have just lost to BC (who has now lost to HARVARD and Miami). Harvard lost to William and Mary. This team has been over hyped and they will not be cutting any nets down. It's going to be a long year for the Hole fans!!!"

What went on in the tunnel before the Kansas game; anyone remember that?
JStuart

COYS
01-12-2009, 09:36 AM
The other thing that's changed for Duke is that Nolan Smith is playing the point which makes for a much better defense at not only that position, but also the entire team as well.


This point is definitely right on. Duke has established itself as an elite defensive team . . . one of the best we've had in Durham in years and years. Duke's offense may not quite be the same high-octane machine that it was last year, but our defense is worlds beyond what it was last year. Our half court offense is much improved (notwithstanding the occasional field goal drought, which we will hopefully improve upon) which makes us better suited to win with defense. UNC knows only one way to play: push the pedal to the metal and forget about defense. This played right into Wake's hands as they are a great team in transition and can certainly play a fast pace. We will need to force Wake to play a half-court game, which we are fully capable of doing. I think the biggest key for us will be limiting our own turnovers (and thereby limiting Wake's opportunities in transition) and keeping Wake's players off the offensive glass. Obviously, a hot shooting night from our guys would certainly help, as well, but if we can rebound like we have been able to do against just about everyone except for FSU, we will definitely have a great chance to win.

Carlos
01-12-2009, 09:44 AM
I consider Teague a 2 guard at the next level, but you're right, he handles the point a majority of the time. In that case, I will correct myself and say that Wake has the best 1,3, and 4 in the country.

Well, if you assume that Tyrell Biggs plays the 5 for Pitt then Levance Fields, Sam Young, and DeJuan Blair may take exception to your statement.

Combined stats for Pitt's threesome: 44.1 points, 20.8 rebounds, 9.6 assists, 4.8 turnovers, 4.1 steals, 4.1 blocks, 50% FG, 37% 3FG.

Combined stats for Wake's threesome: 44.6 p, 20.9 r, 8.4 a, 8.5 to, 4.7 steals, 3.4 blk, 53% FG, 39.5% 3FG.

Bear in mind that Pitt plays at a little slower pace of play and has achieved their numbers against a schedule rated 90 by Pomeroy while Wake's is rated at 215. Sagarin has them at 82 and 236 respectively.

SMO
01-12-2009, 09:58 AM
What went on in the tunnel before the Kansas game; anyone remember that?
JStuart

No idea, but I'd love to know. Sounds ominous!

BlueintheFace
01-12-2009, 10:37 AM
Some thoughts about Duke-Wake

1) Wake is young and a bit undisciplined on offense despite being monstrously athletic and talented. Luckily, young undisciplined offenses really struggle when they are taken out of their usual game plan by a defense (something Roy forgot to do). Also luckily, Duke is very good at this. How you ask?

2) Ball denial for perimeter and lateral passes. Carolina was perfectly content at times to let Teague get the ball at the three point line and start the offense wherever he wants. Duke is one of the best teams around at off-ball denial and teague will have to work to get the ball and will have to start the O much further out.

3) Basic man to man defense. Nolan Smith knows how... not so sure about Lawson.

4) Teague was basically BEGGING for someone to step in and take a charge, but the boys in baby blue would not oblige (haha, alliteration is funny). Duke is pretty good at drawing charges I believe.

5) I believe all of this means that we will seriously be able to limit Teague and Wake will win or lose the game on the front line with Aminu, Johnson, and McFarland. Lucky for us, we can double off guards (probably not Teague) since Wake is not a good three point shooting team.

6) Wake is all about organized chaos that allows their athleticism to shine in a fast game. If we slow them down and take Teague out of the game, I feel pretty decent about our chances.

JDev
01-12-2009, 10:50 AM
I know it is only two games into the conference schedule, but perhaps it is safe to say that Lawson is just not anywhere near his hype. Some of Hansbrough's performance can be credited to injury, but not Lawson's. He reminds me a lot of Hawaii's QB last year, or a number of Big 12 QB's in recent years who have looked great and put up video game type stats, until they play a SEC quality defense. They are what some people call "system players." The system they play in lends itself to big, over-inflated numbers. I think in UNC's high-paced offense Lawson gets a bit of the same benefit, and occasionally looks a little better than he actually is. And, frankly, his numbers never were outstanding. They were certainly good, but never great.

BlueDevilJay
01-12-2009, 10:58 AM
I just wanted to say how nice it is to start my second consecutive week savoring an ACC win for Duke and an ACC loss for UNC. All just seems right with the world when this happens.

I only got to watch the first half but it was very fun to watch (well except for the refs Hansblahblah love!). I'm really looking forward to our games against Wake and UNC. They will be highly contested and played at a high level. I'm looking forward to some great games!

Thought the exact same thing this morning about Duke win/UNC loss on a Monday :) I also put my ESPN Streak for the Cash 'streak' on the line and picked Wake to win the game, and they didn't disappoint. Up to my largest streak yet at 8 games now. I think I'm gonna start a thread in the OT about that, yall need to play, its a blast, and free of course.

natedog4ever
01-12-2009, 11:02 AM
No idea, but I'd love to know. Sounds ominous!

It was rumored to be a fight between Ellington and Lawson and the reason the team looked "weird" during the national anthem. I didn't see that, nor can I vouch for the veracity of the claim.

tbyers11
01-12-2009, 11:14 AM
One game shouldn't cause us to replace UNC with Wake as "the team for the ages."

Wake played well but gave up lots of points to a poor-shooting opponent.

Wake's half-court offense, in the three or four times they were forced into it, was really poor. Just five guys standing around flat-footed waiting for Teague to make another run at the basket.

It's going to be an interesting ACC season but we shouldn't be anointing Wake as the top dog yet.

IMO.

I agree with this post a lot. Wake's offense in the halfcourt was basically stand around and watch Teague penetrate. He is a very good player, but a team with better help defense that isn't afraid to take charges will likely do better guarding him.

Wake's interior defense was tall and strong and this limited Hansbrough and Thompson down low but the rest of their defense was good but not great and they got out rebounded big time.

I've seen Wake play 2 other times this year. They crushed Indiana but that doesn't count because the Hoosiers are basically fielding a JV team this year. The other game was a road game at a 9-6 Richmond team. Wake won by 7 and it was a close game the entire way. If you watched this game you would think that Wake was talented but young and somewhat undisciplined and may have trouble on the road in the ACC as most ACC teams are better than Richmond.

Wake is immensely talented but still has to play 8 ACC road games and deal with having the target on their back. Duke's game at the Joel will be tough but I think Duke has a pretty good shot.

SMO
01-12-2009, 11:26 AM
I agree with this post a lot. Wake's offense in the halfcourt was basically stand around and watch Teague penetrate. He is a very good player, but a team with better help defense that isn't afraid to take charges will likely do better guarding him.

Wake's interior defense was tall and strong and this limited Hansbrough and Thompson down low but the rest of their defense was good but not great and they got out rebounded big time.

I've seen Wake play 2 other times this year. They crushed Indiana but that doesn't count because the Hoosiers are basically fielding a JV team this year. The other game was a road game at a 9-6 Richmond team. Wake won by 7 and it was a close game the entire way. If you watched this game you would think that Wake was talented but young and somewhat undisciplined and may have trouble on the road in the ACC as most ACC teams are better than Richmond.

Wake is immensely talented but still has to play 8 ACC road games and deal with having the target on their back. Duke's game at the Joel will be tough but I think Duke has a pretty good shot.

The other thing Wake did a lot of was unforced turnovers. I would imagine that would be a problem against a more intense defensive team. No one can make "team x has no chance of winning at team y's place" this year in the ACC. The ACC is going to be really, really exciting instead of the anticipated race for #2. I love it.

Indoor66
01-12-2009, 11:28 AM
The other thing Wake did a lot of was unforced turnovers. I would imagine that would be a problem against a more intense defensive team. No one can make "team x has no chance of winning at team y's place" this year in the ACC. The ACC is going to be really, really exciting instead of the anticipated race for #2. I love it.

Especially since the Hated Heels are deeeeeeeeeeeep into the race for #2!

jipops
01-12-2009, 11:32 AM
I know it is only two games into the conference schedule, but perhaps it is safe to say that Lawson is just not anywhere near his hype. Some of Hansbrough's performance can be credited to injury, but not Lawson's. He reminds me a lot of Hawaii's QB last year, or a number of Big 12 QB's in recent years who have looked great and put up video game type stats, until they play a SEC quality defense. They are what some people call "system players." The system they play in lends itself to big, over-inflated numbers. I think in UNC's high-paced offense Lawson gets a bit of the same benefit, and occasionally looks a little better than he actually is. And, frankly, his numbers never were outstanding. They were certainly good, but never great.

I disagree. As one of the announcers so astutely pointed out (perhaps GMan?) Lawson's role for UNC is completely different from Teague's role for Wake. Teague is there to score and make plays off his scoring drives, he's a shooting guard fitting in to a point guard role and he does it quite well. Lawson is there to push the ball and distribute it to the vast array of scorers and shooters that are present. Lawson's problem last night is that he played like his matchup with Teague was a personal battle and it took UNC completely out of their usual offense. Ty can certainly create his own scoring opportunites as we have often seen, but with all the other experienced scorers around him he needs to distribute as well. So Ty's issue is more of maturity and what he lacks on the defensive end. But I'd still say he's one of the top pg's in the country at this point.

Diddy
01-12-2009, 11:37 AM
First, don't count out UNC. UNC played a bad game by their standards, and lost by 3 on the road to one of the top teams in the nation. Admittedly, there were lots of UNC fans in Joel, but still. Hans may be seeing some backlash, and as others have pointed out, without coddling by the refs he morphs into a good player, rather than a spectacular player.

As for WFU, their front line is going to eat us up. Get ready for it. MacFarland, who is one of the most underrated players in the nation, is going to give us fits. Zoubs better be strapped up for that one. Whoever Hendo guards between Aminu or Johnson will have good numbers, but Hendo can wear them out on the other end. I like the Scheyer vs their SG (not teague) matchup for us.

The Duke-WFU matchup will basically come down to Teague v Smith and Singler v. Johnson. This will be a monster game for Nolan. If he can slow down Teague, their entire O will sputter. If we rebound OK, then we will be fine.

But their front line will go nuts. We will need everybody for this one. Z, Plum, Lance and Kyle have to be ready to go.

Virginian
01-12-2009, 11:46 AM
First, don't count out UNC. UNC played a bad game by their standards, and lost by 3 on the road to one of the top teams in the nation. Admittedly, there were lots of UNC fans in Joel, but still. Hans may be seeing some backlash, and as others have pointed out, without coddling by the refs he morphs into a good player, rather than a spectacular player.

As for WFU, their front line is going to eat us up. Get ready for it. MacFarland, who is one of the most underrated players in the nation, is going to give us fits. Zoubs better be strapped up for that one. Whoever Hendo guards between Aminu or Johnson will have good numbers, but Hendo can wear them out on the other end. I like the Scheyer vs their SG (not teague) matchup for us.

The Duke-WFU matchup will basically come down to Teague v Smith and Singler v. Johnson. This will be a monster game for Nolan. If he can slow down Teague, their entire O will sputter. If we rebound OK, then we will be fine.

But their front line will go nuts. We will need everybody for this one. Z, Plum, Lance and Kyle have to be ready to go.

Good points. I expect Nolan's primary responsibility/tactic will be to keep the ball out of Teague's hands like they tried to do (and did successfully in the first half) against Curry.

SMO
01-12-2009, 01:21 PM
Andy Katz weighs in on UNC, with a quote from Ellington:

"We sometimes go out there and we just expect to win, instead of realizing that nobody is going to roll over for us,'' Ellington said. "We've got the target on our back. We've got to be a little bit hungry. We've got to want it more and take it. We can't think someone is going to give it to us.''

That sounds familiar!

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3827187&name=katz_andy

weezie
01-12-2009, 01:59 PM
First, don't count out UNC. UNC played a bad game by their standards, and lost by 3 on the road to one of the top teams in the nation. Admittedly, there were lots of UNC fans in Joel, but still. Hans may be seeing some backlash, and as others have pointed out, without coddling by the refs he morphs into a good player, rather than a spectacular player.



That's it in a nutshell, alright. I wonder how it is that TBangs is apparently not a real team leader? Not a "climb on" guy, at least not in that game. He sure does relay his anger at the refs in no uncertain body language.

[But still...can't help relishing how Karl Hesse was his usual Hesse-ian bad self!! And that's "bad meaning BAD, not bad meaning good!"]

roywhite
01-12-2009, 02:27 PM
[But still...can't help relishing how Karl Hesse was his usual Hesse-ian bad self!! And that's "bad meaning BAD, not bad meaning good!"]

Don't like to see Mr. Hess doing a game that I'm watching. Seems to think the game is about him. The best games are those where you hardly notice the refs, or at least not in an individual way.

Cell-R
01-12-2009, 03:11 PM
Andy Katz weighs in on UNC, with a quote from Ellington:

"We sometimes go out there and we just expect to win, instead of realizing that nobody is going to roll over for us,'' Ellington said. "We've got the target on our back. We've got to be a little bit hungry. We've got to want it more and take it. We can't think someone is going to give it to us.''

That sounds familiar!

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3827187&name=katz_andy

Was that from the BC game?

dukemsu
01-12-2009, 09:23 PM
Carolina, obviously, is still a strong favorite to go all the way. A couple of things that I have noticed through the few times they have been challenged, though:

1. For all their firepower, they only score effectively and consistently a couple of ways: off the secondary break, which leads to a ton of open shots based off reaction to Lawson penetrating, or Hans' act of either making his shot puts in the lane/parade to the foul line. When they really need a bucket in the half court, if you can get them in that situation, they really seem to be at a loss as to where to go. What I didn't hear on the game on Hans' 24 foot Laettner impersonation was not that it was a bad shot, but what was he doing out there in the first place?

2. They really, really miss Ginyard. Not just for his defense, but his overall steadiness when everyone else seems to be running around with their hair on fire.

Just my opinion, but I don't make much of the yelling during the game between players. This kind of thing is relatively routine. Remember Laettner screaming at Hurley? It wasn't that uncommon. It's a heat the moment kind of thing. Now, if the pregame fight stories are true, that's a different matter entirely.

Something tells me they'll get the offense figured out. Not sure about their defensive issues.

dukemsu

jv001
01-13-2009, 08:37 AM
Don't like to see Mr. Hess doing a game that I'm watching. Seems to think the game is about him. The best games are those where you hardly notice the refs, or at least not in an individual way.

I hate to see Mr. Hightower doing any of our outside the conference games. He thinks he's the star on the court. Go Duke!

natedog4ever
01-13-2009, 09:22 AM
Just my opinion, but I don't make much of the yelling during the game between players. This kind of thing is relatively routine. Remember Laettner screaming at Hurley? It wasn't that uncommon. It's a heat the moment kind of thing. Now, if the pregame fight stories are true, that's a different matter entirely.
dukemsu

When was the last time you saw a player get in Coach K's face to the point that it looked like they wanted to fight on the bench?

I rest my case.

You may say there is no chemistry problem, but you cannot deny the tension is overwhelming.

CDu
01-13-2009, 09:38 AM
Carolina, obviously, is still a strong favorite to go all the way. A couple of things that I have noticed through the few times they have been challenged, though:

1. For all their firepower, they only score effectively and consistently a couple of ways: off the secondary break, which leads to a ton of open shots based off reaction to Lawson penetrating, or Hans' act of either making his shot puts in the lane/parade to the foul line. When they really need a bucket in the half court, if you can get them in that situation, they really seem to be at a loss as to where to go. What I didn't hear on the game on Hans' 24 foot Laettner impersonation was not that it was a bad shot, but what was he doing out there in the first place?

2. They really, really miss Ginyard. Not just for his defense, but his overall steadiness when everyone else seems to be running around with their hair on fire.

Just my opinion, but I don't make much of the yelling during the game between players. This kind of thing is relatively routine. Remember Laettner screaming at Hurley? It wasn't that uncommon. It's a heat the moment kind of thing. Now, if the pregame fight stories are true, that's a different matter entirely.

Something tells me they'll get the offense figured out. Not sure about their defensive issues.

dukemsu

I agree with point #1, but I don't know that they'll be able to correct it. I will add that this has been a problem for Roy Williams's teams for YEARS. He has always stressed the up-tempo, run the opponent into the ground approach to basketball. That works great when you can get things going up-tempo. But when you can slow them down and play a half-court game, you really see Williams's weaknesses as a coach. His half-court offensive approach has always been poor.

It is compounded this year in that they have a PG who struggles unless as a playmaker unless he can go right at the rim, and they lack one-one-one playmakers outside of Hansbrough. Green and Ellington can be tremendous shooters, but neither make much happen off the dribble (Ellington can do a bit with the step back jumper, but that's about it).

Teams can beat UNC if they have good PG play AND good post defense. If they can attack off the dribble and limit their turnovers, hustle back on defense in transition and provide some resistance (without fouling) to Hansbrough, UNC can be had. They have to be able to do all of this AND not completely lose sight of Green and Ellington.

BC and Wake were bad matchups for UNC because they have extremely confident scoring ballhandlers in Rice and Teague and they don't mind playing physical defense inside. They were able to exploit Lawson defensively, and they limited transition buckets for UNC by not making too many careless turnovers. Wake DID make some bad turnovers, and that's the only reason UNC kept it close.

The good thing for UNC is that there probably aren't THAT many teams in the country with the combination of talent to exploit their weaknesses. The bad news is that the ACC has a few of them. Outside the ACC, I'd say (off the top of my head) that Pitt, Gonzaga, and UConn could give UNC trouble. Oklahoma could if they could start to get more production from their backcourt. I don't think that Griffin is enough by himself.

roywhite
01-13-2009, 09:40 AM
When was the last time you saw a player get in Coach K's face to the point that it looked like they wanted to fight on the bench?

I rest my case.

You may say there is no chemistry problem, but you cannot deny the tension is overwhelming.

Ingredients for a nice stew in Chapel Hill:

1. 3 players returning who'd rather be in the NBA
2. A 3-time A-A who needs/wants the ball a lot
3. Very high expectations
4. A tendency to coast against lesser opponents
5. A leader amongst the players is hard to identify
6. At least a few players who fly off the handle---Lawson, Green, Thompson
7. Rotation uncertainty due to injuries
8. dadgum Roy

A mixture that may overheat and boil over

ddsdevil
01-13-2009, 02:51 PM
Don't underestimate Dino Gaudio's ability to coach. I think what he has done at Wake is amazing.

I'm not sure that Duke will be able to stop Teague. He is incredibly quick. I also really think that it will take our best effort to beat them. As always, they will be ready for us. It's easy to say that they aren't disciplined and will drop several games that they shouldn't. However, they have beat BYU and Baylor which are good teams. Wake will be tough and I wouldn't be surprised to see them get to at least the Elite 8. If all their guys return for next year (probably not gonna happen), they will be very, very, tough.

camion
01-13-2009, 02:59 PM
Don't we usually foul out seven or eight players when we visit Winston-Salem?

SMO
01-13-2009, 03:19 PM
Was that from the BC game?

I think it was from after the WFU game, but not sure when the quote was taken. I thought it sounded similar to what some Duke players have said when they hit a rough patch.

moonpie23
01-13-2009, 08:44 PM
if you think about it, just what is it that lawson CAN do? he's not a very good shooter, can't play defense, and when pressed on defense, his offense suffers...and don't you KNOW it crawls all over him when he sees JJ HIXON getting rich, and playing ball.....when lawson had to come back home with his tail between his legs...

what he CAN do is run that fast break lay-up....


tyler working on that mid-range jumper he so desperately needs to even be low first rounder .........his desire to come back for his "senior season" is a couple of months from being over..


those guys have some problems...

1DevilishKing
01-13-2009, 09:09 PM
I never go into a game over confident. But I do go in confident. NCarolina is overrated. Too overly confident and to much hype. Who is this tyler character our Boys are Top notch. If I mention one name, I'd have to name off our whole team. All gifted with talent and worthy of recognition. Given there size advantage. They have proven to bring down even giants (FSU). I give credit where credit is due. Great execution on saturday! They have my vote of confidence that they can bring down the rest of these soldier haters!

1DevilishKing.

roywhite
01-13-2009, 09:14 PM
I never go into a game over confident. But I do go in confident. NCarolina is overrated. Too overly confident and to much hype. Who is this tyler character our Boys are Top notch. If I mention one name, I'd have to name off our whole team. All gifted with talent and worthy of recognition. Given there size advantage. They have proven to bring down even giants (FSU). I give credit where credit is due. Great execution on saturday! They have my vote of confidence that they can bring down the rest of these soldier haters!

1DevilishKing.

Welcome to the board, 1DevilishKing. That's quite a first post. A little hard to follow, but I like the enthusiasm. :)

duketaylor
01-13-2009, 09:53 PM
I had to get it here, just too funny.
RoyBoyToy

DU Band Prez 88
01-14-2009, 01:35 PM
For the record, I picked Wake to win the ACC like two months ago. (Even though the pick was solely in my head, and not relayed to any one person verbally or in writing.)

These guys are well coached, fast, and driven. I hate to say it but they may be the second best team in the country besides Pitt. Pitt will win it all. (Picked that 5 minutes after they beat us last year.)


UNC has no answer for a guard (Teague) as fast as Lawson. It throws their game plan way off. Nolan is getting faster by the game, so we are looking pretty good.

Responses to the above:
1. How about a 3-way tie this year, Duke UNC & Wake? Could happen...
2. Pitt will not make the Final Four.
3. I can't wait to see how good Duke will be in late March/April.