Chronicle Letter To Editor - D.U.M.B. Free Throw Distraction

[MADevil30]

On a somewhat related note, there was a letter to the editor published in the chronicle today from a fan who claimed to be "neutral" and visiting CIS for the first time. He was upset by the bands "pull your shirt over your head and jump around" free throw distraction while Andrew Lovedale was shooting late in the game, as he interpreted it as a racial remark. I know this one has been used for a long time and can honestly say that such an interpretation never occurred to me, but also realize that I may not be as sensitive to this as others. Is there any validity to this interpretation, and regardless, should the distraction be dropped?

[loran16]

On a somewhat related note, there was a letter to the editor published in the chronicle today from a fan who claimed to be "neutral" and visiting CIS for the first time. He was upset by the bands "pull your shirt over your head and jump around" free throw distraction while Andrew Lovedale was shooting late in the game, as he interpreted it as a racial remark. I know this one has been used for a long time and can honestly say that such an interpretation never occurred to me, but also realize that I may not be as sensitive to this as others. Is there any validity to this interpretation, and regardless, should the distraction be dropped?

I've never seen this action in the way that the letter-writer did...the band has done it more or less every game for the last 2 or 3 years.

The grad section does a motion (the OH OH OH OH OH noise with the suggestive pulling off the arms down) that Coach K doesn't like. So the band (an official part of the university, unlike the grads) does the ape like thing instead.

The only reason the letter was probably written (and the action misunderstood) is that lovedale is like one of two black (he's not american, so he's not african-american) players on Davidson and the only one who has serious time, so its much more noticable.

[SushiChef]

I was reading the chronicle and saw this absolutely ludicrous letter to the editor about the Duke University Marching Band:

http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2009/01/08/Letters/Band-Needs.To.Rethink.Distractions-3582653.shtml

What is wrong with people?

[davidson]

The only reason the letter was probably written (and the action misunderstood) is that lovedale is like one of two black (he's not american, so he's not african-american) players on Davidson and the only one who has serious time, so its much more noticable.

Actually, he is one of five - and an African-American named Steph Curry actually gets a few minutes of serious playing time in most games as well.

[DevilWolf]

Our House is badass and should be used as much as possible. Personally, I've always thought it would be cool at tip-off.

Second, that letter (I read it too) is idiotic at best. Similarly, my neighborhood has a message board and there is an african-american family that lives down the street who had a cracked windshield a while ago. Someone went on our message board demanding to know who did it, and wanted it reported as a hate crime because it was an obvious retaliation to Obama winning the election. A few posts later, the owner of the car confirmed that an object fell out of a truck and bounced up and hit their car on the highway.

[BlueintheFace]

It's a non-issue. I don't mean to be insensitive in any way, but a letter like that is a perfect example of "seeing what you want to see." That distraction has been done for years and for hundreds of players in CIS and its origins ( I believe) have no racial roots.

If that is offensive then the Crazies' cheer after an opposing team turnover that exaggerates poor coordination is extremely offensive to mentally disabled... catch my drift?

There is certainly such a thing as TOO SENSITIVE to the actions around you and their implications... sometimes to the point that the voices of those who are actually slighted by cultural or racial insensitivities are drowned out by those who take offense to every little thing.

[Exiled_Devil]

On a somewhat related note, there was a letter to the editor published in the chronicle today from a fan who claimed to be "neutral" and visiting CIS for the first time. He was upset by the bands "pull your shirt over your head and jump around" free throw distraction while Andrew Lovedale was shooting late in the game, as he interpreted it as a racial remark. I know this one has been used for a long time and can honestly say that such an interpretation never occurred to me, but also realize that I may not be as sensitive to this as others. Is there any validity to this interpretation, and regardless, should the distraction be dropped?

this cheer/distraction goes basK at least 10 years and is The Great Cornholio from Beavis and Butthead. Not racist , its a dumb lad on a sugar rush from 1992. Calling this racist is odd, and shows some issues for the claimant.

[snowdenscold]

The letter I can forgive out of ignorance somewhat. I have no idea why the paper chose to publish it though. Are they all freshmen working the last page of the paper? The comments section below does a good job of dismissing the letter's argument.

[CDu]

The letter I can forgive out of ignorance somewhat. I have no idea why the paper chose to publish it though. Are they all freshmen working the last page of the paper? The comments section below does a good job of dismissing the letter's argument.

The letter I can understand, though it is quite a reach. The writer just appears to be hypersensitive to the possibility of racism.

The fact that the Chronicle printed the letter isn't surprising at all. Print media these days is taking a beating due to the internet and ease of communication of the news. Thus there's a push for printing interesting and/or controversial pieces to encourage readership, even if the piece borders on ridiculous. The Chronicle students are just getting prepared for their future careers! :)

[loran16]

Actually, he is one of five - and an African-American named Steph Curry actually gets a few minutes of serious playing time in most games as well.

My apology, but in a non-racist sense, Lovedale is the one player who looks the darkest on Davidson. The thought had by the letter writer is while incorrect, not a very surprising thought.

Personally though, if i was the chronicle, I would've forwarded the letter to the DUMB leader and had that person respond. Publishing a letter known to be inaccurate seems a bit silly.

[DukeUsul]

As a band member from 95-99 I can unequiocally state that the origin of such actions stem from The Great Cornolio as Exiled_Devil stated. I've been playing in the alumni pep band over the winter games for the last 5-6 years and have been quite disappointed that today's band members have no idea who Beavis and Butthead are or the meaning of the shirts over the head thing.

Back in my day..... someone would yell out "Cornholio! Cornholio!" and everyone would yank their shirt up over their head and act like an idiot on too much caffeine. Nowadays someone in the band yells out "Shirts! Shirts!" for the same action. So disappointing. How can you not know The Great Cornholio (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7MMTwIlWlU&feature=related)?!? (possibly not suitable for work, depending on where you work)

"Are you threatening me?!?"

[Smitty1911]

I've never seen this action in the way that the letter-writer did...the band has done it more or less every game for the last 2 or 3 years.

The grad section does a motion (the OH OH OH OH OH noise with the suggestive pulling off the arms down) that Coach K doesn't like. So the band (an official part of the university, unlike the grads) does the ape like thing instead.

The only reason the letter was probably written (and the action misunderstood) is that lovedale is like one of two black (he's not american, so he's not african-american) players on Davidson and the only one who has serious time, so its much more noticable.

I didn't know K was opposed to the uh, uh, uh chant. That one cracks me up -- it looks so hilariously stupid when done correctly. Oh well. As for the shirt over head jumping around bit, I can't believe someone would turn that into a racial thing (and I'm black). It would be nice if the author of the letter could get a response clarifying its origin. While it's ridiculous that you'd have to explain something like that, it's better than someone spouting off to the world about the racist Cameron Crazies.

[Chitowndevil]

Most who read these boards probably know this but as a former DUMB member I think it is important it be clearly stated in this thread, as it is in the comments following the article.

The gesture described in the letter (pulling the pep band jerseys over heads and jumping up and down whooping) has been done by the pep band for many years. It is one of several generic things the band does when a shooter is at the line, such as waving arms back and forth chanting "tic-toc" as a player prepares to shoot. It has nothing to do with the race of the player involved.

Let me also add I appreciate the Chronicle publishing this letter, I just hope they will publish an explanation like this one in response. In my opinion knowledge is the best cure for racism and stereotyping, and a letter like this creates an opportunity for a misinterpretation to be clarified and explained.

[DukeUsul]

The antics in question actually have a very specific origin. For more, see my post in the other thread (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showpost.php?p=238991&postcount=16).

[orrnot]

Cornholio, brought to the scene by Beavis and Butthead in the mid-90's, modified the pre-existing Troll Dance, which emerged from BOG in the late 80's (see the Chronicle, 2/21/89). That dance, outside Cameron, was performed to "Land of a Thousand Dances," re-popularized by the WWF in the era. Later, The Doors' "Peace Frog" was the tune of choice for party enactments. The Troll Dance survived BOG in and out of Cameron, kept alive by the DURFC in its lean years. Initially, the Cornholio homage rather strictly mimicked the TV version, but over time it melded with the Troll Dance and became more free-form.

[Indoor66]

As a band member from 95-99 I can unequiocally state that the origin of such actions stem from The Great Cornolio as Exiled_Devil stated. I've been playing in the alumni pep band over the winter games for the last 5-6 years and have been quite disappointed that today's band members have no idea who Beavis and Butthead are or the meaning of the shirts over the head thing.

Back in my day..... someone would yell out "Cornholio! Cornholio!" and everyone would yank their shirt up over their head and act like an idiot on too much caffeine. Nowadays someone in the band yells out "Shirts! Shirts!" for the same action. So disappointing. How can you not know The Great Cornholio (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7MMTwIlWlU&feature=related)?!? (possibly not suitable for work, depending on where you work)

"Are you threatening me?!?"

I never heard of Cornholio. It is a generational thing. Do you remember Princess Summerfallwinterspring? Why would kids today know of a TV character from 15+ years ago?

[Acymetric]

I never heard of Cornholio. It is a generational thing. Do you remember Princess Summerfallwinterspring? Why would kids today know of a TV character from 15+ years ago?

15+ years ago? Nice try, but I'm 20 and I'm quite familiar with Beavis, Butthead, and of course, Cornholio. I'm pretty sure every single one of my friends knows who they are too. Kids in high school now might be just young enough to have missed B&B, but if you're in college now and have never heard of them...

[TheRose77]

Princess Summerfallwinterspring... now that's funny.

[zingit]

Cornholio, brought to the scene by Beavis and Butthead in the mid-90's, modified the pre-existing Troll Dance, which emerged from BOG in the late 80's (see the Chronicle, 2/21/89). That dance, outside Cameron, was performed to "Land of a Thousand Dances," re-popularized by the WWF in the era. Later, The Doors' "Peace Frog" was the tune of choice for party enactments. The Troll Dance survived BOG in and out of Cameron, kept alive by the DURFC in its lean years. Initially, the Cornholio homage rather strictly mimicked the TV version, but over time it melded with the Troll Dance and became more free-form.

Sorry, maybe this is another generational thing, but what is a troll dance? And what's BOG?

I am a 21-year-old female, and I know the Cornholio reference, and while I know some of my peers would get this reference, a lot of them wouldn't. Heck, I've never actually watched Beavis and Butthead myself, I just have a dad who can sometimes be immature. :D But actually, in defense of the current band members, I would have never realized that the free-throw dance originated from the Cornholio routine; as this commenter points out, they're not that similar. Cornholio doesn't dance around and hoot like a monkey.

And yeah, the letter to the Chronicle was stupid and wrong, and I hope someone from the band writes in and corrects it. But in defense of the letter-writer, Lovedale is originally from Nigeria, which in my opinion makes it a little easier to see how someone could jump to that conclusion (that monkey imitations were meant in a racial way) than if Lovedale were an African-American born and raised here. But still, I would have never made that assumption, and I really hate the way that the lacrosse incident has colored people's views of us. But that's another topic.

[DukeUsul]

A response from the band is in the works.

[DukeUsul]

I never heard of Cornholio. It is a generational thing. Do you remember Princess Summerfallwinterspring? Why would kids today know of a TV character from 15+ years ago?

I understand and accept the point you are trying to make. However the comparison you make isn't quite the same. B&B were on the air from 93-97 while today's students maybe could have seen it if they had an older sibling (or parent) who watched and could easily have watched the reruns since then.

I am aware of Princess Summerfallwinterspring, but know next to nothing about the character. But since Howdy Doody went off the air 17 years before I was even born (and doubtful was on in syndication in the late 70s/early 80s) it's not quite the same.

[RelativeWays]

15+ years ago? Nice try, but I'm 20 and I'm quite familiar with Beavis, Butthead, and of course, Cornholio. I'm pretty sure every single one of my friends knows who they are too. Kids in high school now might be just young enough to have missed B&B, but if you're in college now and have never heard of them...

Actually 15 years ago is about right. Beavis & Butthead debuted on Liquid Television back in 1992 with their infamous frog baseball vignette.It became a full fledged series about a year later and gave Mike Judge enough money to do King of the Hill

[mapei]

The thing about alleged racial satire isn't intention; it's how it might reasonably be perceived. If there's a good chance someone might be offended, it's a good idea to back off when it comes to race, whether that's the way you mean it or not. I didn't notice the antics at all, so I don't have an opinion on whether it could reasonably be perceived that way. I did live through an era when people threw bananas on the court when a certain AA player was present, and that was definitely offensive.

When I was growing up, "cornhole" had a pretty vulgar meaning all by itself, but that's a different subject . . .

[Lord Ash]

Sorry, maybe this is another generational thing, but what is a troll dance? And what's BOG?

I am a 21-year-old female...

Enough said.

;)

Oh man I miss Duke something fierce.

At some point I'll post in off-topic about the insanity that I witnessed regarding a certain Chronicle cartoon about a certain Korean-American business owner (or Korean, in which case no one was upset) while at Duke.

[ricks68]

Sorry, maybe this is another generational thing, but what is a troll dance? And what's BOG?

Your profile says you are Trinity '09 and you don't know what BOG stands for? Is that Duke Trinity or some other Trinity?

Seriously, now, let's all help the young lady out. I'll start: BOG stands for "Bunch of Guys", and was a section of a quad back in my freshman year that was located in the same quad as the Zebe's, and then moved to the Swamp where the "new" dorms were built. I have no idea where they are now (If they are even still around), or when and where they originally became a group. My freshman year was 1964-5.

As far as the troll dance and the other B & B stuff, you will need the youngsters around here to keep filling you in.

I'll bet you didn't even know that Clarabelle (sp?) was a big time WWII hero, also. And after the original "Dood" went off the air, he became a "captain" of sorts.

Just some fun trivia.:p

ricks

[prefan21]

Your profile says you are Trinity '09 and you don't know what BOG stands for? Is that Duke Trinity or some other Trinity?

Seriously, now, let's all help the young lady out. I'll start: BOG stands for "Bunch of Guys", and was a section of a quad back in my freshman year that was located in the same quad as the Zebe's, and then moved to the Swamp where the "new" dorms were built. I have no idea where they are now (If they are even still around), or when and where they originally became a group. My freshman year was 1964-5.

As far as the troll dance and the other B & B stuff, you will need the youngsters around here to keep filling you in.

I'll bet you didn't even know that Clarabelle (sp?) was a big time WWII hero, also. And after the original "Dood" went off the air, he became a "captain" of sorts.

Just some fun trivia.:p

ricks

I graduated in 2005. I knew about BOG, but I don't recognize any of these:

- Zebes
- the Swamp
- B & B
- Clarabelle
- the original "Dood" (who became a "captain")

Then again, I spent hundreds of hours studying in a Deryl Hart Reading Room that allegedly no longer exists, and lived in a dorm built over "the ocean."

We didn't even have a Chipotle. Primitive times.

[dukeENG2003]

On a somewhat related note, there was a letter to the editor published in the chronicle today from a fan who claimed to be "neutral" and visiting CIS for the first time. He was upset by the bands "pull your shirt over your head and jump around" free throw distraction while Andrew Lovedale was shooting late in the game, as he interpreted it as a racial remark. I know this one has been used for a long time and can honestly say that such an interpretation never occurred to me, but also realize that I may not be as sensitive to this as others. Is there any validity to this interpretation, and regardless, should the distraction be dropped?

WOW. This is an example of politcal correctness gone mad.

That free throw distraction has been around for YEARS, and it comes from Beavis and Butthead. Its an hommage to Beavis's skit as "the great Cornholio".

[DukeUsul]

The thing about alleged racial satire isn't intention; it's how it might reasonably be perceived. If there's a good chance someone might be offended, it's a good idea to back off when it comes to race, whether that's the way you mean it or not. I didn't notice the antics at all, so I don't have an opinion on whether it could reasonably be perceived that way. I did live through an era when people threw bananas on the court when a certain AA player was present, and that was definitely offensive.

When I was growing up, "cornhole" had a pretty vulgar meaning all by itself, but that's a different subject . . .

I'd suggest that since this distraction has been going on in its current incarnation for 10-12 years and was similarly done some years before that and this is the first time I've heard anyone perceive it this way - I'll submit to you that it probably isn't reasonable to perceive it in a racist manner.

Though I do agree with your point. In general, if something can be misinterpreted to be racist, despite your intentions, it's often a good idea not to do it, especially on a very public stage.

[DukeUsul]

Response from the band (http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2009/01/09/Letters/Distractions.Misinterpreted-3582918.shtml)

[killerleft]

That Wahneema Lubiano - she's such a kidder!:p

[PumpkinFunk]

I'll leave my comments at this:

The Chronicle has recently been known as a source of very low-quality journalism. The publishing of this editorial was just a continuation of the trend.

[MulletMan]

I've never seen this action in the way that the letter-writer did...the band has done it more or less every game for the last 2 or 3 years.

The grad section does a motion (the OH OH OH OH OH noise with the suggestive pulling off the arms down) that Coach K doesn't like. So the band (an official part of the university, unlike the grads) does the ape like thing instead.

The only reason the letter was probably written (and the action misunderstood) is that lovedale is like one of two black (he's not american, so he's not african-american) players on Davidson and the only one who has serious time, so its much more noticable.

HUH!?? The Grad Students are not an official part of the University?! Am I reading that right?! You must not have meant that the way that you wrote it. Please tell me that I've read that wrong. I mean really, I see both DUMB members AND the Viking Guy painted on the mural in the BC, so I figure they must both be part of the university.

A few other points of clarification:
1. Its not an "ape thing"... but I think that's already been covered.
2. Perhaps you can refer to Lovedale not as "black" but as African, you know, since he IS FROM AFRICA. (Perhaps Nigerian would be appropriate as well?)
3. If K greatly disliked a FT distraction that had been going on for the past 5-6 years, I'm sure the word would have come down the pipeline to cut it out. Believe me, that's happened a number of times before.

[MulletMan]

Response from the band (http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2009/01/09/Letters/Distractions.Misinterpreted-3582918.shtml)

That was well worded and I commend you on refraining from taking the original writer to task as I did in my head when I read that yesterday.

[DukeUsul]

Just to be clear.... I didn't write the band response, but I did communicate with them to provide some positive support from an alum. And agreed, they did a great job in responding.

[blazindw]

All of the posts regarding the letter to the editor about the D.U.M.B. free throw distraction were merged here, so if you are just starting from the beginning and the posts appear disjointed, this is why.

[davekay1971]

That was well worded and I commend you on refraining from taking the original writer to task as I did in my head when I read that yesterday.

Well worded except for the part about regretting it if their actions were misinterpreted. Someone came up with an off-the-wall misinterpretation of what the band was doing. What does the band have to regret? Too often when someone calls foul, the accused expresses regret, even when they have done nothing wrong. Mr. Smith is the one with the problem, and should be the one expressing "regret" that he accused racism where none was intended.

[MulletMan]

Just to be clear.... I didn't write the band response, but I did communicate with them to provide some positive support from an alum. And agreed, they did a great job in responding.

Ummm.... I was using the global "you"?

:D

[TillyGalore]

I have a season ticket to the womens games and often see the band do the same move to a visiting player when she is at the free throw line. I wonder if the author of the letter would have thought said move was sexist?

[BlueintheFace]

The thing about alleged racial satire isn't intention; it's how it might reasonably be perceived. If there's a good chance someone might be offended, it's a good idea to back off when it comes to race, whether that's the way you mean it or not. I didn't notice the antics at all, so I don't have an opinion on whether it could reasonably be perceived that way. I did live through an era when people threw bananas on the court when a certain AA player was present, and that was definitely offensive.

This is a very very dangerous view to have. It's a slippery slope, and when one person can see offensive racial satire where 1,000 simply see an amusing distraction to the shooter, the logical explanation is that the one person is wrong/unreasonable.

Count me in the camp that believes that SOMETIMES, intent is very important. When an action or statement can reasonably be interpreted in a number of ways (one of them as racially insensitive) the most important question to ask is, "What is the history behind the action, what is the intent?"

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

By the way, and maybe this is just being way too obvious, but the DUMB itself is composed of students of various racial and ethnic origins. Um, so did Mr. Smith believe that the band was therefore being racist toward its own members? Were a number of band members literally being racist towards themselves?

I agree with other posters that really the worst part of this is that the Chronicle actually published the letter in the first place and thereby created the controversy. What happened to editorial decision making? Back in the early 90s while I was at Duke the Chronicle editor accepted, under the guise of free speech, a full page ad from a holocaust revisionist. It was a far worse display of poor editorial judgment than the recent publishing of Mr. Smith's letter (especially since the former involved acceptance of a paid advertisement) but I think they both highlight the need for greater editorial responsibility. And that may be putting it lightly.

[elvis14]

I just wanted to give my $.02 here and I'm going to try to be very careful in how I word this :-) I'm a 41 year old male. So when Beavis and Butthead (B & B) were all the rage, I was single, in my twenties and my group of friends loved them. I'll admit to having a pretty decent Beavis imitation back in the day (there was usually beer involved). That also means that I am well aware of Cornholio (and TP for my b...). For years I was a Duke fan but didn't really try to go to the games (tickets aren't easy to come by ya know!). A few years ago I got proactive about trying to get into CIS to see a few games a year (I got to the the Ga. Southern game this year and if you're reading this and have extra tix....:D). The first time I saw the pull the shirt over your head and jump about routine from the band, it had been a few years since I'd seen Cornholio and my first response was to be surprised that the band woud do something so politically incorrect.

Note, I'm not saying I was offended and I know now about the Cornholio origins but I can tell you that without knowing the background when one sees that behavior for the first, it can come across as racist (and for me it did). Further, I would say that they way the band jumps around and makes noise is less Cornholio and more monkey than I'd prefer (perhaps they need to visit youtube and watch some Cornholio! it's still funny)

Note, I know 100% this is not the intention, I'm just adding a data point. For some of you, this could be one of those cases where your background as a long time Dukie makes it hard to see this in the eyes of a newbie.

[DukieInKansas]

By the way, and maybe this is just being way too obvious, but the DUMB itself is composed of students of various racial and ethnic origins. Um, so did Mr. Smith believe that the band was therefore being racist toward its own members? Were a number of band members literally being racist towards themselves?

I agree with other posters that really the worst part of this is that the Chronicle actually published the letter in the first place and thereby created the controversy. What happened to editorial decision making? Back in the early 90s while I was at Duke the Chronicle editor accepted, under the guise of free speech, a full page ad from a holocaust revisionist. It was a far worse display of poor editorial judgment than the recent publishing of Mr. Smith's letter (especially since the former involved acceptance of a paid advertisement) but I think they both highlight the need for greater editorial responsibility. And that may be putting it lightly.

It is possible the editor would have faced a bigger backlash for covering up racism if the letter hadn't been printed. If Mr. Smith was sensitive about the band's actions, I don't think it would have been too far fetched to think he would have raised a bigger stink if the letter hadn't been published. I didn't get to watch all the game, but I assume the band did the same actions at times for opposing players that had lighter skin.

I agree with the majority that think Mr. Smith was overly sensitive. Although we should always be sensitive to those around us and try not to offend people, if 1 out of 1000 is offended, they should check the thickness of their skin before calling foul. Just my $0.02.

[Kimist]

Actually I get more offended by the "O" during the national anthem - how dare those Duke students be allowed to show their support for Obama in such a blatant fashion????? :D

k

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

It is possible the editor would have faced a bigger backlash for covering up racism if the letter hadn't been printed. If Mr. Smith was sensitive about the band's actions, I don't think it would have been too far fetched to think he would have raised a bigger stink if the letter hadn't been published. I didn't get to watch all the game, but I assume the band did the same actions at times for opposing players that had lighter skin.

I agree with the majority that think Mr. Smith was overly sensitive. Although we should always be sensitive to those around us and try not to offend people, if 1 out of 1000 is offended, they should check the thickness of their skin before calling foul. Just my $0.02.

Yes, it is certainly possible. And I was not suggesting they should have dismissed it. But there are different ways to respond to a letter, especially one originating from such an ill informed position as Mr. Smith's. One poster suggested that it should have been forwarded to the DUMB for a response/explanation. Or perhaps the Chronicle might have published the letter with an editor's note/response explaining the true history of the distraction. This is essentially what the Chronicle did by publishing the DUMB's response afterward. But it put DUMB on the defensive and that's not really fair. It's fine for Mr. Smith to have his opinion but if the Chronicle is going to serve as a public forum for a misinformed and controversial point of view, I think they owe it to the other party(ies) involved to be able to participate equitably in the discourse.

[Bluedog]

Actually I get more offended by the "O" during the national anthem - how dare those Duke students be allowed to show their support for Obama in such a blatant fashion????? :D

k

haha, on a similar note, I've been asked why there are so many "W (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cubs_Win_Flag)" flags around me in the summer time by out-of-towners...People are like, those around here really must like Bush! :eek:

[DukieInKansas]

Yes, it is certainly possible. And I was not suggesting they should have dismissed it. But there are different ways to respond to a letter, especially one originating from such an ill informed position as Mr. Smith's. One poster suggested that it should have been forwarded to the DUMB for a response/explanation. Or perhaps the Chronicle might have published the letter with an editor's note/response explaining the true history of the distraction. This is essentially what the Chronicle did by publishing the DUMB's response afterward. But it put DUMB on the defensive and that's not really fair. It's fine for Mr. Smith to have his opinion but if the Chronicle is going to serve as a public forum for a misinformed and controversial point of view, I think they owe it to the other party(ies) involved to be able to participate equitably in the discourse.


See bolded sentence above. This is a great suggestion. Hopefully the editors are reading and remember this for any future letters.

[-bdbd]

This is not the first time the Crazies have been accused of racism. As most of you know Inside Carolina always/frequently seems to have a string up on K as a racist (b/c he - gasp! - occasionally plays a white player or two)... which is just ignorant silliness of course.

And... Many moons ago, when I was an undergrad in K's early years (early-80's), Duke hosted a team from Alabama (A&M?) in the post-season NIT tournament. I took a poster to the game to use as a distraction. It was a lifesized poster of, I think, Cheryl Tiegs in a bikini. I sat under one basket and with some help from some friends, for the second half, held it up for just about every opponent freethrow. It worked - the opponents made around 40% of their free-throws for the half (and Duke won). On the following Monday a letter to the editor appeared in the Chronicle from an offended party stating that it was insensitive and "racist" to hold it up just for the black players from the other team. (Of course no note was made that the other team only had one white player out of the 15 suited up, and he didn't shoot any second-half free-throws.)

A storm of defending counter-letters ensued, all published by the Chronicle. (Ironically, I too penned a short response indentifying myself as the perpetrator, which I thought was very organized, pleasant, apologetic (but still disagreeing on the racism point) and constructive in tone -- and the Chronicle, in their infinite wisdom, never published my response....)

I'm pretty liberally minded, and a minority member myself (though not African-American), but the "racism" angle never ever even entered my mind before the event. The poignant point was that the author of the complaint was actually a member of OUR team - a reserve player who took offense from the bench. While disagreeing with his perception, I felt terrible to have offended him just the same. From what I understand there were some other personal issues in play and he soon left the team anyway.

But I think it bears saying that we need to be aware of what we do, as I'm sure none of us wants to offend any minority member -- even if they may be a bit misguided/oversensative. Just be aware.

That's just my $.02

-BDBD
:o

[wisteria]

As a foreigner coming from Asian country, I really don't understand what could possibly be wrong about the DUMB move. How exactly can that be possibly mocking the african-americans? I mean... What?

It's a free-throw-distraction. So, as far as I'm concerned, the noisier, the crazier, the dumber, the funnier, the better!

But I really don't like the "oh oh oh oh oh" thing from the grad section. I'm a grad-student who attends most of the home games. I just think this antics is dumb and never effective. Like, NEVER effective.

[wisteria]

So the band (an official part of the university, unlike the grads)




I am seriously offended.

[mapei]

This is a very very dangerous view to have. It's a slippery slope, and when one person can see offensive racial satire where 1,000 simply see an amusing distraction to the shooter, the logical explanation is that the one person is wrong/unreasonable.


Not really. My view is that, when a racially offensive gesture might reasonably be perceived as such, one is well advised to back off as a matter of courtesy and decency, not because it is "wrong" or unreasonable.

Again, I'm just writing hypothetically. I didn't even see it.

[Acymetric]

Not really. My view is that, when a racially offensive gesture might reasonably be perceived as such, one is well advised to back off as a matter of courtesy and decency, not because it is "wrong" or unreasonable.

Again, I'm just writing hypothetically. I didn't even see it.

If you've ever been to a Duke game you've seen it, they do it literally every game, and have for years. It isn't even remotely offensive, I don't really see how it could have been perceived the way that person perceived it, absent some assumption some people have that everything about Duke is apparently racist. Its a group of kids pulling shirts over their heads and jumping around like idiots to distract someone shooting free throws, no more, no less.

Some people just want to find controversy.

[Kimist]

...Some people just want to find controversy.

I could NOT have said it any better!

k

[DukeUsul]

So the band (an official part of the university, unlike the grads)

A few people have gotten on loran for this statement. I'm going to try to clarify what I think he/she means. The band serves as a "more official" representative of the university. By this I mean that the university has more authority to sanction band members for inappropriate behavior. For example, it's easier for the university to take action against a band member for yelling racist taunts than a student. I would think it's much easier for a band director to punish inappropriate behavior (suspension, removal) than for the university judicial board deal with a "regular" student yelling stupid stuff.

I don't think loran meant to disrespect students in general. I think he/she was pointing out that band members are 1) perceived to be "more official" representatives of the university when acting under the direction of the atheletic dept. and 2) are more able to be controlled by the university.

[DukieInKansas]

A few people have gotten on loran for this statement. I'm going to try to clarify what I think he/she means. The band serves as a "more official" representative of the university. By this I mean that the university has more authority to sanction band members for inappropriate behavior. For example, it's easier for the university to take action against a band member for yelling racist taunts than a student. I would think it's much easier for a band director to punish inappropriate behavior (suspension, removal) than for the university judicial board deal with a "regular" student yelling stupid stuff.

I don't think loran meant to disrespect students in general. I think he/she was pointing out that band members are 1) perceived to be "more official" representatives of the university when acting under the direction of the atheletic dept. and 2) are more able to be controlled by the university.

I'm not loran and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but that was how I understood the statement when I read it. Obviously, grad students are a part of Duke University - just as undergrads are.

[RelativeWays]

Who knew that a taunt that the Duke pep band did would evolve into the philosophy of deconstruction. Well....it is Duke we're talking about ;)

[SMO]

Not really. My view is that, when a racially offensive gesture might reasonably be perceived as such, one is well advised to back off as a matter of courtesy and decency, not because it is "wrong" or unreasonable.

Again, I'm just writing hypothetically. I didn't even see it.

I find this post racially insensitive. Please stop posting on this board.

I'm kidding, of course, but "reasonably perceived as such" is way too big a hoop for some people who want to find controversy. See what I mean?

[TillyGalore]

A few people have gotten on loran for this statement. I'm going to try to clarify what I think he/she means. The band serves as a "more official" representative of the university. By this I mean that the university has more authority to sanction band members for inappropriate behavior. For example, it's easier for the university to take action against a band member for yelling racist taunts than a student. I would think it's much easier for a band director to punish inappropriate behavior (suspension, removal) than for the university judicial board deal with a "regular" student yelling stupid stuff.

I don't think loran meant to disrespect students in general. I think he/she was pointing out that band members are 1) perceived to be "more official" representatives of the university when acting under the direction of the atheletic dept. and 2) are more able to be controlled by the university.

Thank you for posting this DukeUsul. I did not take loren's statement this way, but now that it has been explained from your point of view, and perhaps loren's, it makes perfect sense.

[Lavabe]

But I really don't like the "oh oh oh oh oh" thing from the grad section. I'm a grad-student who attends most of the home games. I just think this antics is dumb and never effective. Like, NEVER effective.

IIRC, a few years ago, didn't someone did a statistical analysis of effective free throw distractions at Cameron?

Anyone analyze the oh-oh-oh thing? How about cornholio/troll dance? Likewise, although not a free throw distraction, I'd like to see an analysis of the effectiveness of Boink-Boink-Pass. And the slapping of the floor thing when we go on defense just SCARES me.

If there is no such recent analysis, perhaps we've found a good stats assignment.;)

Cheers,
Lavabe

[rsvman]

I don't understand why "youngsters" always want to take a pass on any kind of pop-culture knowledge because it was "before their time." As though if it happened one day prior to their birth it's entirely irrelevant to their world and should be dismissed out of hand. What a selfish, egocentric way to view the world!

I just turned 50 in November, OK? But still I know about stuff that happened "before my time," like Mutt and Jeff, Frank Sinatra, Howdy Doody, George Burns and Gracie Allen, Gene Autry, etc., etc., etc. Pop culture has a way of building on itself; things from the past are often relevant to the present. Many times headlines, movie titles, and jokes made by stand-up comics have reference to past events/pop culture movements, etc. It is likely that there are references flying over the tops of your heads on a daily basis if all you know is what has happened during "your time."

Come on! You have no excuse not to know about Cornholio. Put the textbooks down for a few minutes and study some freakin' pop culture once in a while! ;)

[Richard Berg]

A few people have gotten on loran for this statement. I'm going to try to clarify what I think he/she means. The band serves as a "more official" representative of the university. By this I mean that the university has more authority to sanction band members for inappropriate behavior. For example, it's easier for the university to take action against a band member for yelling racist taunts than a student. I would think it's much easier for a band director to punish inappropriate behavior (suspension, removal) than for the university judicial board deal with a "regular" student yelling stupid stuff.

I don't think loran meant to disrespect students in general. I think he/she was pointing out that band members are 1) perceived to be "more official" representatives of the university when acting under the direction of the atheletic dept. and 2) are more able to be controlled by the university.
Let's make it even more concrete: $$$$. Duke spends lots of money ensuring the band has uniforms and instruments. They charter buses & planes. They put them up in hotels and give out meal per diem. Their leader is a salaried employee who reports to the athletic directors.

None of this takes away from the grad students' rich history, which in many ways eclipses our own. But it's not hard to see why these responsibilities are called "more official."