MBB Duke vs. Davidson Post-game Thread

[jpfrizzle]

Go DUKE ! ! ! !

a closer game than what I thought!

[snowdenscold]

I don't know if it was the giant glass of wine I enjoyed while watching, but I absolutely loved the announcers tonight. Between having three of them up in the crow's nest, and bringing a pretty fresh perspective to everything (college, Cameron, etc.) and some pretty funny banter, it was a great time.

I like Davidson and Curry so I'm happy they weren't completely blown out and Curry got 29, but it was pretty painful to watch them go on that 10-0 run in the 2nd half, especially after we looked like we would completely dominate coming out of halftime.

[dukediv2013]

Jeff Van Gundy said, "I want to go down there with the students! This is giving me chills."

What a compliment!

[grossbus]

yeah, too bad we played only about 20 min of decent ball. there were times in the first 10 min and the last 10 min where our offense looked totally lost.

[rthomas]

Jeff Van Gundy said, "I want to go down there with the students! This is giving me chills."

What a compliment!

What a reprieve from Vitale!

[Indoor66]

What a reprieve from Vitale!

I would add also a RELIEF from Vitale!

[superdave]

Watching Vitale now on the NBA game. He's toned down and trying to be constructive.

Were the NBA announcers in the crows nest? On tv I saw a back drop up - thought they might be watching on the monitor from elsewhere.

Those guys were great though doing the college game.

[dukelifer]

An amazingly frustrating game. Duke played so poorly on the offensive half of the floor in the first 10-12 minutes. No passing- except around the perimeter- settling for long jumpers- lots of turnovers against almost no pressure by Davidson. Duke had a great start to the second half- gets a huge lead and then relaxes and lets Davidson get it close. Two long stretches with no baskets- poor ball pressure. Too much one on one play mostly by G. What happened to running the O through Zoubek? What happened to looking for each other? The only thing good about the game is that they were able to hold on and win- thanks to Scheyer. Hopefully K can use the game to teach a bit about how to blow out a team when you have them down. They did not do that tonight. If you let a good team get on a roll- they can come back. Davidson does not have the horses but there are plenty of teams that do.

[BlueintheFace]

Thoughts:

First 25 minutes (minus first 5 I suppose) were very good. Singler looked great and defense was spectacular

Win would have been bigger if we hadn't missed a few gimmes

One fg in last 8:30. One as in a single fg. Just Jon's money three. ONE FREAKING FG!!!! Spread offense needs a bit of work I think.

G has to hit that mid-range jumper in the lane. He just has to!

[FireOgilvie]

Curry is good... 29 points, 8 rebounds (!), 6 assists. That's a fantastic stat line against Duke. He also had 7 turnovers though. We played excellent defense on him in the first half. We looked really bad in the last 10 minutes of the game.

Singler, Scheyer, and Zoubek looked really good. I am loving the way Zoubek has come on this year.

The announcers were great. Van Gundy is hysterical. Give me the pro announcers any day.

[superdave]

Duke went cold from 8 minutes to 3 minutes in the 2nd. Otherwise it would have been a 20 point game. The good shots they got didnt fall, but they didnt get to the rim as much as they needed to for easy buckets.

Fortunately for those who hate the spread offense, Duke didnt get into until 3 minutes to go so it cannot accurately be claimed as the cause of the Davidson comeback.

[mgtr]

Right - I think this has often been a problem in the last few years. We build a lead and then appear to coast, which often lets good teams back in. As if we don't have the killer instinct. My wife complains when we have a runaway (OK, she complains more when we lose), but I want to win every game by 50 points.

[91devil]

Curry is good... 29 points, 8 rebounds (!), 6 assists. That's a fantastic stat line against Duke. He also had 7 turnovers though. We played excellent defense on him in the first half. We looked really bad in the last 10 minutes of the game.

Singler, Scheyer, and Zoubek looked really good. I am loving the way Zoubek has come on this year.

The announcers were great. Van Gundy is hysterical. Give me the pro announcers any day.

The announcers were very good until the middle of the second half when, much like the Duke team on the floor, they lost focus. I thought they were outstanding for the first three-quarters of the game. The MJ free throw stance and reference went on for minutes! Hello! Davidson is only down by eight points!

Welcome to the 1000 Point Club, Mr. Scheyer.

[jpfrizzle]

Welcome to the 1000 Point Club, Mr. Scheyer.

Congrats to Jon Scheyer ! ! ! !

[dukestheheat]

Yes, I agree on the announcers as being good and a breath of fresh air. The one I really like though is Bob Knight!

I've not liked Vitale for many, many years. At first, he was kind of interesting because he was so much of a freak.

dth.

[RainingThrees]

I loved that pic of Van Gundy with hair from back in the day.

[graybead]

Did Curry's chewing on his mouthpiece the ENTIRE game bother anyone else?

My wife actually brought it up early and I didn't think much about it. She said it made him look cocky. I really like Curry and don't think he is cocky at all. However, as the game went on it started getting to me and by the end of the game I greed. I'm sure it's just a habit, but it looks bad and does kind of give him an air of arrogance. I don't recall him doing that last year during the Tournament.

Unlike many of you, I really like Vitale and missed him calling this game. Everyone has their opinion. I like his true passion for the game. The one I can't stand is Packer. Hopefully I don't have to listen to him anymore.

[DisplacedBlueDevil]

C'mon folks, Dickie V is probably the one person most responsible for making that spot between Durham and Chapel Hill the center of the college basketball universe! I'll be the first to admit there are times when I have to turn the volume down but let's not forget his value to the game (and Duke).

[dukefanSD]

The mouth piece thing drove me nuts too. I don't need to see him chompin' on that thing all game. I really enjoyed having different announcers. It's nice to get a fresh perspective on things instead of getting the same rehashed issues.

[RainingThrees]

No problem with chewing the mouthpiece. The kid shows almost no emotion on the court and I have never seen him act cocky or angry. Just a straight poker face.

[Devil07]

Were the NBA announcers in the crows nest? On tv I saw a back drop up - thought they might be watching on the monitor from elsewhere.


I thought the same thing. I don't know where they were, but it definitely didn't look like the crow's nest. Anyone know?

[taiw93]

The announcers were very good until the middle of the second half when, much like the Duke team on the floor, they lost focus. I thought they were outstanding for the first three-quarters of the game. The MJ free throw stance and reference went on for minutes! Hello! Davidson is only down by eight points!

Yeah, I agree 100%. I really liked the announcers throughout the first half, but around the time of Duke's collapse they started getting bored and talking about irrelevant things, much like how Vitale starts raving about UNC or Duke during a dull stretch of a Big East game.
Btw, did anyone notice the different announcing style? These guys seemed to make a lot more conversation amongst each other than any college annoucers do. The fact that there were three of them may be a factor, execpt that even the three man crews that do college games rarely talk amongst themselves. Perhaps it is just the chemistry between them, or the fact that more conversation is ideal for the NBA games they usually announce. Thoughts?

[calltheobvious]

The announcers were very good until the middle of the second half when, much like the Duke team on the floor, they lost focus. I thought they were outstanding for the first three-quarters of the game. The MJ free throw stance and reference went on for minutes! Hello! Davidson is only down by eight points!

Welcome to the 1000 Point Club, Mr. Scheyer.

In their defense, the loss of focus coincided exactly with Duke stretching out the margin. The difference between those guys and Vitale is that they saved their B-roll for what they reasonably believed to be garbage time. MJ and VG were great, and I found Tirico to be unusually sufferable tonight.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Did Curry's chewing on his mouthpiece the ENTIRE game bother anyone else?

My wife actually brought it up early and I didn't think much about it. She said it made him look cocky. I really like Curry and don't think he is cocky at all. However, as the game went on it started getting to me and by the end of the game I greed. I'm sure it's just a habit, but it looks bad and does kind of give him an air of arrogance. I don't recall him doing that last year during the Tournament.

Unlike many of you, I really like Vitale and missed him calling this game. Everyone has their opinion. I like his true passion for the game. The one I can't stand is Packer. Hopefully I don't have to listen to him anymore.

Just got back from the game. We were sitting near the Davidson bench and we kept commenting on the mouthpiece thing but even more about his lazy strut to the bench during time outs. I do like Curry but that strut sure did seem cocky. I didn't care for it and I can't imagine a Duke player walking to the bench or to a huddle with that kind of body language. I almost feel like it's disrespectful to his own teammates to mope around like that. It's certainly not what you expect in a leader.

[Bluedog]

I thought the same thing. I don't know where they were, but it definitely didn't look like the crow's nest. Anyone know?

I'm almost 100% sure they were in the crow's nest. They just put a black backdrop behind them to make it look a lot nicer on TV (in person it looks somewhat silly when you see it from a farther away perspective). Although I wasn't at the game tonight, so can't say with certainty...but I've seen it look like that in the past.

[mike88]

1. This was one of the most disjointed games I've seen at Cameron in the last several years. We played some stretches of great basketball; others were the worst we have looked all year.

2. I don't think we can afford to sit Kyle and Jon at the same time against good teams- our offense really suffers without at least one of them on the court. Maybe that will change as Nolan gets more assertive wiht the ball.

3. While Gerald is amazingly talented in many aspects of the game, I don't think he is going to be an elite player until he can go to his left with authority. Good defenders can overplay him and negate some of his athleticism. If he is hitting the fall-away it may not matter, but he has yet to do that consistently. It will probably take him a summer of dedicated work on his left hand to get there- its not something you can easily improve in-season.

[calltheobvious]

Just got back from the game. We were sitting near the Davidson bench and we kept commenting on the mouthpiece thing but even more about his lazy strut to the bench during time outs. I do like Curry but that strut sure did seem cocky. I didn't care for it and I can't imagine a Duke player walking to the bench or to a huddle with that kind of body language. I almost feel like it's disrespectful to his own teammates to mope around like that. It's certainly not what you expect in a leader.

How many times have you been to Davidson games to watch him "walking to the bench or to a huddle with that kind of body language"? Dude is just really, really chill. Yours is the first cross word I've ever seen or heard about the guy. To pass judgment on Curry as a leader or a teammate based on body language while walking toward the bench? Weak tea.

[allenmurray]

How many times have you been to Davidson games to watch him "walking to the bench or to a huddle with that kind of body language"? Dude is just really, really chill. Yours is the first cross word I've ever seen or heard about the guy. To pass judgment on Curry as a leader or a teammate based on body language while walking toward the bench? Weak tea.

I agree. The kid exudes class. He is polite, charming, skilled, and works as hard as anyone I have ever watched. If the most we can find to dislike about him is that he chews his mouthpiece (probably a nervous habit) and the way he walks we are really stretching

[Virginian]

I thought it was funny (or weird or annoying depending on your point of view) that even though Vitale wasn't doing the Duke game, he was on the air during the game about a dozen times. And when he wasn't live on the air, the on-site announcers were talking about him. It was kinda creepy in a way.

I thought the announcers did a decent job when they concentrated on the game, but they spent a lot of time talking about each other, showing video clips of themselves in college, joking about their age, the amount of hair they have, etc., etc., etc. I don't watch that many pro games -- do they do that kind of stuff when announcing in the NBA?

[AtlDuke72]

Yeah, I agree 100%. I really liked the announcers throughout the first half, but around the time of Duke's collapse they started getting bored and talking about irrelevant things, much like how Vitale starts raving about UNC or Duke during a dull stretch of a Big East game.
Btw, did anyone notice the different announcing style? These guys seemed to make a lot more conversation amongst each other than any college annoucers do. The fact that there were three of them may be a factor, execpt that even the three man crews that do college games rarely talk amongst themselves. Perhaps it is just the chemistry between them, or the fact that more conversation is ideal for the NBA games they usually announce. Thoughts?

I got sick and tired of them talking about the NBA non stop. They knew nothing about the Duke team and seemed to care about nothing except Curry's NBA chance. It reminded me of the McDonald's games a few years ago when the oonly topic seemed to be which kids were going the the NBA immediately. I much prefer announcers, other than Vitale, who are interested in the college game. A number of posters said they liked them. Not me.

[weezie]

....Dude is just really, really chill. Yours is the first cross word I've ever seen or heard about the guy...

I second. From where I sat, Curry looked physically exhausted. Truly, he earned each point he scored. He's lightening, but he couldn't handle the switching defense. Plus, Scheyer was doing that shake of his head, and all of them were able to use their height advantage while keeping their hands in front of his face.

I think Kyle Singler lost ten pounds in sweat tonight. Whew, he looked gassed at the end.

[weezie]

like how Vitale starts raving about ....Duke during a dull stretch of a Big East game.



What's wrong with that?! :D Besides, there are plenty of dull streches in the Large-ish East!

[DBFAN]

I am glad someone else thought the mouthpiece thing was annoying. He may have gotten his 29, but it was at a point when the Duke team stopped playing for awhile, and we knew he wasn't going to beat us. I do beg to differ about him not showing any emotion, I remember the last time Davidson played at Duke and all he did the entire game was whine at the officiating. I may be the only one on here that loves Dickie V, but I did like the guys tonight.

By the way did anyone catch Dickie V busting Stewart (Spelling?) Scotts' chops at halftime, about Carolina losing to BC.

Oh yeah, congrats to Tommy Amaker on the huge win.

[TaiAdmiral]

I was among the Crazies watching the game. It was really great to see us shut down a prolific scorer like Curry for the first half...but of course that wouldn't last long. We all thought the game was over...until Davidson came back from that 24 point deficit. Oh yeah and the NBA announcers were definitely in the loft...I could see them from the student section. They were also in KVille earlier in the day, talking with kids and stuff....before the weather got bad....

...I know you guys didn't see it on ESPN, but KVille was in absolute shambles today. There was a freak wind/rainstorm right as we were walking into the game...there were tents and trashcans flying around everywhere. No one got hurt...I think. A lot of us probably got sick though by standing in that cold, windy, maelstrom for like 30 minutes. By the time we came out of Cameron after the game was over, about half the tents were either leveled or just messed up somehow. Ugh...nasty nasty scene out there...mud everywhere, in the tents, on the tents...blah. Good thing I didn't tent this year. Some kids are STILL cleaning up the mess.

[devildownunder]

"All was good in Krzyzewskiville. And then, all of a sudden, the clouds came. The story's going to end bad. But you don't win every round against good teams. They're going to make you look bad, stop you, or you're going to stop them and we stopped them a little bit more than they stopped us."

I love to hear coaches talk like this. I believe it takes lots of time and practice to fill space in copy like this without giving anyone anything even remotely useful. Seriously.

And just to be clear, I am NOT slamming K here. I know there are many sensitive souls around who read this board and easily take offense. I'm just having some fun w/an instance when coach obviously was engaging in the art of empty speech.

the full story is on espn.com, here: http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=290070150

[devildownunder]

http://a.espncdn.com/media/apphoto/c0ecb961-eed4-4b79-ac60-82bc92ea1549.jpg

[greybeard]

I hate the way Davidson plays defense. Said it last year, when it was even worse, and saw it again tonight. No way they stay on the floor with Duke if they don't play nasty dirty, leaning on people, popping folks with gratuitous elbows, putting hands literally in faces. The coach should be ashamed!

Last year in the tournament the refs absolutely refused to call it. I can remember watching the game against Georgetown, if Hibbert tried to scratch his ear he'd have picked his defenders nose and been called for an offensive foul, giving "clearing out" an entirely new meaning in basketball parlence. In fact, he was called for two such offensive fouls against a guy 5 inches shorter. The refs need to stop giving teams a pass on this type defense. Heck, that guy must have really whacked Singler with his elbow as he passed him by; singler looked quite pained.

So, what with the body mime defense being played inside I thought Zoubek moved pretty cleverly. He was not able to create passing lanes as such, but did present catching zones up high that would have led to each shots. They got it to him exactly once on one of those high touch passes, which he caught with two hands in front of the rim and was immediately fouled.

This team MUST recognized when the play is to get it to Zoubek near the basket, when he has clear advantage (height) that will make the catch unstoppable, and rely on him to catch it, one hand if necessary. If they persist IN MISSING these opportunities to pressure the rim, and give Zoubek the opportunities to score with littles poking and what not at him off of short little 5 footers and less, lttle jump-shot like shots without ever bringing the ball down, SHAME on them. He should have fouled their entire front line out the first half; no he was not "open" but he was available to receive it inside and have easy scoring chances. It is time to stop playing with the get-it-to-Zoubek inside game and DO IT and make people stop it and stop it again.

Lance I thought did very well around the rim off of such catches as did Zoubek. There need to be more of them, many!

First game I have seen reason to criticize Singler. He had Zoubek once clean open in front of the rim, looked at him and then proceeded to beat his man off the dribble, going left and finishing. If I were K, Singler would have been sitting and for a while after that play.

In games like this with smaller oponents, and hello sports fans, Pittsburgh is such a team, this team must have a high passing game to the bigs, especially Zoubek down low that completely occupies and stymies guys like Blair. That tell them that they are subject to dominion by Duke when they on are on defense. Singler passing it high to Zoubek is crucial, also to Lance. The other guys too. Again, this is not about conventional passing lanes. It is about Zoubek having a body on a man, his hand or his hands up, and there being an arc on a pass that Zoubek will be able to handle and score a high percentage at the rim.

Once that is seen as a first option when the situation calls for it, and Duke establishes its ability to execute on it, I can see less need for criticism if, in a game like this, Duke goes to its other scoring options first and stays with them if they are working, but never stays as away from the high pass game as they did. They ain't there yet and that concerns me.

[ForeverBlowingBubbles]

seriously, Curry cocky? Dudes, we had Redick for 4 years.

[davekay1971]

seriously, Curry cocky? Dudes, we had Redick for 4 years.

Funny...and true.

[roywhite]

3. While Gerald is amazingly talented in many aspects of the game, I don't think he is going to be an elite player until he can go to his left with authority. Good defenders can overplay him and negate some of his athleticism. If he is hitting the fall-away it may not matter, but he has yet to do that consistently. It will probably take him a summer of dedicated work on his left hand to get there- its not something you can easily improve in-season.

Say, like, if he had a whole off-season where his right wrist was injured and had surgery, and he had to use his left hand a lot?

[arnie]

Say, like, if he had a whole off-season where his right wrist was injured and had surgery, and he had to use his left hand a lot?

If doesn't show the ability to hit the mid-range shot this year, I think he's back for his senior year.We can blame the injury, but some guys just aren't great shooters - which I think is needed for his success in the NBA.

[natedog4ever]

Say, like, if he had a whole off-season where his right wrist was injured and had surgery, and he had to use his left hand a lot?

Man, you beat me to it. That is all he has talked about in interviews this season. I think it is safe to say his left may never happen and we need to accentuate the positives. He has really improved the outside shot.

Unfortunately, the pressure to go left has resulted in a weak 360 spin move back to his right, which is largely useless. (Although it did work against Danny Green at UNC last year for a dunk, so whenever he does it I just prefer to reminisce about that time.)

[CDu]

Man, you beat me to it. That is all he has talked about in interviews this season. I think it is safe to say his left may never happen and we need to accentuate the positives. He has really improved the outside shot.

Unfortunately, the pressure to go left has resulted in a weak 360 spin move back to his right, which is largely useless. (Although it did work against Danny Green at UNC last year for a dunk, so whenever he does it I just prefer to reminisce about that time.)

It seemed very early in the season as though Henderson had developed the left hand. But as the quality of competition has increased, his use of the left has evaporated. It's a disappointment. Perhaps being so physically dominant in high school against inferior defenses allowed him to get away with not developing the left. The only upside is that it may keep him in Duke blue for another year. If so, hopefully it's a work in progress and he unveils a more fully-developed game next year to complement what is already a pretty good skillset now (though he's very inconsistent).

[whereinthehellami]

I don't like Vitale. Immediate mute whenever his nasaly voice comes on. I can't remember the last time he said anything I didn't already know.

The announcers last night were okay. Liked the camadarie the three had but when the talk went anywhere near the NBA it got annoying. I can't stand the NBA and the NBA game is not a model of how the game should be played IMO. I prefer watching And1 to the NBA.

I think you can like Curry but still think that he is acting too cocky. He is only a kid and is getting an insane amount of attention. It must be tough to keep him grounded. That said he needs to be rained in some. The strut, the mouthpiece, and his overall demeanor come off as pandering to the camera.

[CDu]

I think you can like Curry but still think that he is acting too cocky. He is only a kid and is getting an insane amount of attention. It must be tough to keep him grounded. That said he needs to be rained in some. The strut, the mouthpiece, and his overall demeanor come off as pandering to the camera.

Sounds a lot like Redick.

[CathyCA]

I loved last night's game, although I did get a tad nervous late in the second half when Davidson seemed to be catching up.

Our defense seemed to be a little different for this game with the outstretched hand. Was that to limit the ball handler's movement?

I liked watching Curry. He is a great player and seemed to be very classy. In fact, the entire Davidson team was classy, even in defeat. I wish all of our opponents were that way.

My favorites in this game were Zoubek for his excellent rebounding and Singler and Scheyer for making points happen.

[KShip21]

Back to the NBA crew last night. I'm not sure it has been said, but I thoroughly enjoyed being able to watch a college basketball game and not hear tyler hansborough's name mentioned once!

[hurleyfor3]

The nba announcing crew was so...professional. They only spoke when they had something to say, and were well-balanced between discussing Duke and Davisdon. You could tell they enjoyed it.

I watched the nba game just to see how long it would take Vitale to mention Duke. Right at the start I noticed Dahntay Jones was playing, so I figured maybe two minutes. Sure enough, V mentioned Dahntay and Duke with 10:12 remaining in the first quarter.

BTW, espn kept mentioning that Vitale's last NBA broadcast was in 1984. That's not quite true. 1984 may have been his last NBA teevee broadcast, but I recall listening to him do the 1987 NBA Finals on radio.

[should_be_working]

In the first half Duke looked so concerned about what they were doing defensively, that they forgot how to play on the offensive end. I don't know if it was just that they were so concerned with stopping curry or what, but offensively it was ugly. There wasn't much ball movement and just seemed like they were uninterested in passing and attacking the rim. Better second half (well the first 10 minutes at least) and then they just seemed to stop playing after getting a big lead.

On to ESPN. I know Curry is a great player, has tons of talent, and may be one of the best players in the college game right now, but man that's all they talked about. The cameramen focused on Curry with every dead ball, walking in from timeouts, and really at any time there was a stoppage. A teammate would make a great shot/play, but it all came back to Curry drawing a double team, making a pass, dribbling correctly. It just really got on my nerves. I know this is what espn does, but i just couldn't stand it after a while. And if i saw that mouthpiece one more time . . . And then later on sportscenter, every highlight involved curry. I suppose this is what they did with reddick, but watching this game and hearing the announcers was nearly unbearable.

[DukieInBrasil]

i got kinda nervous when Davidson pulled within 8 late in the game, reminded me of some bad times. Who would have thought that the clutch moment would come from LT at the FT line? The dude iced 2 FTs and Duke finished strong, most if it coming from Scheyer after that, but it was LTs FTs that stopped Davidson´s mo.
My other favorites of the game: Z!!!! Great game from the big dude, lots of boards and no TOs, good stuff. Jon scored his 1000th point, congrats Jon.

[Virginian]

Curry's got a lot of talent, plays really hard, scores a ton and seems like a decent kid from a good family. So what's not to like? But man, didn't Scheyer have a big game!

Scheyer shot half as many times as Curry but had only 7 fewer points. At his efficiency last night, if he had shot as often as Curry he'd have had 40 points. And darn few of them were the layups that Curry managed to get by dribbling around and around a through and around the entire Duke defense and half his own team as well.

I like Curry, but I think it's too early to be likening his impact in the pro game to that of LeBron. Vitale said very strongly that Curry will be a very high draft pick, start immediately and be a huge star in the NBA, scoring 20 or more points per game. We'll see.

[KShip21]

I honestly think that a lot of the curry attention by the announcers and them talking about him at the next level for so long was due to them not really knowing what else to talk about. Its easy to talk about a player like Curry for 20 min of a game.

Did anyone catch tirico right before a commercial break say "he may be the best shooter this floor has seen?" Must have missed the JJ era.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

How many times have you been to Davidson games to watch him "walking to the bench or to a huddle with that kind of body language"? Dude is just really, really chill. Yours is the first cross word I've ever seen or heard about the guy. To pass judgment on Curry as a leader or a teammate based on body language while walking toward the bench? Weak tea.

First of all, I don't drink tea. Second, I specifically said I like Curry (his game is amazing) but I didn't like his cockiness out there last night. There are a number of other posters here with the same OPINION - mine was not the first. I am specifically referring to what I saw firsthand last night. What happens in other games is really irrelevant. My point was this... from the very beginning of the game he moped down court after bad plays. He strutted to the bench at timeouts. Body language says a lot and it can have a negative impact on the rest of your team. To me it's like he's saying... Damn, I gotta do it all. What kind of confidence does his lonely strut to the corner inspire in his teammates? As another poster mentioned, yes, Redick was as cocky as they come. But to me Curry's was a different kind of cockiness. It's seemed to border on disdain for the situation. At least that's what his body language said to me and others with whom I talked. Maybe Curry's teammates don't see it that way. I didn't ask them. But I wonder if he'd show a little pep, hustle over the huddle with everyone else, etc., whether it might give his teammates more of a boost, a little more confidence.

[jv001]

I don't like Vitale. Immediate mute whenever his nasaly voice comes on. I can't remember the last time he said anything I didn't already know.

The announcers last night were okay. Liked the camadarie the three had but when the talk went anywhere near the NBA it got annoying. I can't stand the NBA and the NBA game is not a model of how the game should be played IMO. I prefer watching And1 to the NBA.

I think you can like Curry but still think that he is acting too cocky. He is only a kid and is getting an insane amount of attention. It must be tough to keep him grounded. That said he needs to be rained in some. The strut, the mouthpiece, and his overall demeanor come off as pandering to the camera.

Gotta agree about the NBA. I only watch it once in awhile when Duke alum are playing. But the announcers gave Duke some pretty good publicity last night. Good to see that. As for the game I thought Jon was great once again. He's just one of the best players in the country. Zoubek was open on a few occasions and Kyle, Paulus and Henderson missed him. Dave played well not making any mistakes. Lance's two FTs were clutch and Coach K played that up in post game. Hope this gives LT some confidence in his FT shooting. Williams got into the game early and did not make any mistakes but only had 1 rebound to show for his efforts. Nolan was pretty quite even though he logged 32 mins. Greg played well but still not quite Greg yet. Good win over a good team with a great player. Go Duke!

[Indoor66]

I honestly think that a lot of the curry attention by the announcers and them talking about him at the next level for so long was due to them not really knowing what else to talk about. Its easy to talk about a player like Curry for 20 min of a game.

Did anyone catch tirico right before a commercial break say "he may be the best shooter this floor has seen?" Must have missed the JJ era.

He also missed Verga, Langdon and a number of other fine shooters and scorers.

[hurleyfor3]

He also missed Verga, Langdon and a number of other fine shooters and scorers.

Like Dennis Scott.

[elvis14]

What a strange game. We beat them like a drum and build up a lead then put it in cruise control until we have to. I love the fact that once Davidson got close we were able to turn it back on and squash any chance of a comeback. At the same time I'm not sure we should be cruising so early in a game. This was another game that was ugly and we won. The refs didn't lots of stuff and we won. This makes me really happy and it's something that is different about this years team. In years past, to me the way to beat us has been to make it an ugly game with no flow. Sadly, tournament games have different rules than regular season games....physical play is emphasized and fouls are not called. So when I see us play ugly games like this one and the VT game and be in control and handle it well, it gives me hope that we might win come tournament games this year. We did have 2 long scoring droughts last night but our defense has been so good that we were able to absorb them without any real worry.

Lots and lots of talk on here about the announcers. I have to be honest with you guys....I generally don't care who announces a Duke game. I pretty much tune them out no matter who they are. I'm more interested in the game. ESPN wanted to create hype for their guys and it seems that many on here played right into it (I say that based on all the discussion about the announcers). I don't need a mute button for Dikie V, I could care less about Bobby Knight, or whoever. I'm not saying I don't listen at all but unless they say something really dumb or really cool they just don't get my attention. So, I don't get it, so they had 3 new guys last night....the show was still the basketball team.


On to ESPN. I know Curry is a great player, has tons of talent, and may be one of the best players in the college game right now, but man that's all they talked about. The cameramen focused on Curry with every dead ball, walking in from timeouts, and really at any time there was a stoppage. A teammate would make a great shot/play, but it all came back to Curry drawing a double team, making a pass, dribbling correctly. It just really got on my nerves. I know this is what espn does, but i just couldn't stand it after a while. And if i saw that mouthpiece one more time . . . And then later on sportscenter, every highlight involved curry. I suppose this is what they did with reddick, but watching this game and hearing the announcers was nearly unbearable.

Yeah, that bothered me too. It's kinda like watching a UNC game where the camera shows Hansblahblah constantly. Then the coverage of the game on SportsCenter was all Curry. Apparently they didn't realize the game was all Duke. This is actually an issue I have with ESPN's coverage, it's gotten really poor. Any game where a player they love is involved in, all you will see is that 1 guys highlights and there's usually no way to tell how a game really went. Last night's Duke game is a good example. Although they mentioned that we shut down Curry early, they didn't explain how we built up a 24 point lead and cruised to victory. Plus Jon put up 22 points with 1/2 as many shots a Curry. The News 14 coverage was actually better than ESPN (although they were pimping Paulus for some reason).


i got kinda nervous when Davidson pulled within 8 late in the game

I didn't.

As much as I like the fact that we can win these games, I'd like to see a little more flow and effectiveness on the offensive end. At the same time I'm really happy with how well we are playing defense and I'm always happy when we win. I'm already looking forward to the FSU game Saturday.

[RainingThrees]

Duke vs Davidson from a tar heel perspective.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3818262

[CDu]

Duke vs Davidson from a tar heel perspective.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3818262

Her story sounds pretty much like how any opposing fan would be treated going to an opposing team's game. It was a pretty worthless article all around. I was expecting something more from it, but it was basically:

I went to a game cheering for the other team
I got a bit of good-natured grief from the home fans
There were some dufus fans of the home team
I was outnumbered, but there were a few other road-team fans
It was quiet at times and deafening at times
I left and got aided in directions, but a bit more good-natured grief
I hate the rival school

Kind of pointless.

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

First of all, I don't drink tea. Second, I specifically said I like Curry (his game is amazing) but I didn't like his cockiness out there last night. There are a number of other posters here with the same OPINION - mine was not the first. I am specifically referring to what I saw firsthand last night. What happens in other games is really irrelevant. My point was this... from the very beginning of the game he moped down court after bad plays. He strutted to the bench at timeouts. Body language says a lot and it can have a negative impact on the rest of your team. To me it's like he's saying... Damn, I gotta do it all. What kind of confidence does his lonely strut to the corner inspire in his teammates? As another poster mentioned, yes, Redick was as cocky as they come. But to me Curry's was a different kind of cockiness. It's seemed to border on disdain for the situation. At least that's what his body language said to me and others with whom I talked. Maybe Curry's teammates don't see it that way. I didn't ask them. But I wonder if he'd show a little pep, hustle over the huddle with everyone else, etc., whether it might give his teammates more of a boost, a little more confidence.

I remember watching Jim Brown play for the Cleveland Browns in the late '50s and early-mid '60s. After each time he carried the ball, he'd always get up and walk back to the huddle (or the bench) very slowly and without showing any emotion. Even after a great run or after scoring a touchdown, Brown would walk slowly and show no excitement, no celebration. That way, no one would know if he were hurt, tired, etc. He was just doing his job. He didn't have to show off. He knew he was the best, and his teammates and opponents all knew it.

Maybe that's what Curry is doing. He's playing great and carrying his team. He's terrific, and I love watching him play.

[Virginian]

He also missed Verga, Langdon and a number of other fine shooters and scorers.

And Curry didn't have a particularly good shooting game. He was ineffective from beyond the arc. He made two pull-up jumpers that I recall, and the rest were layups and foul shots. Of course he's good, but he sure didn't shoot lights out last night.

[Smitty1911]

I didn't see this noted in the thread, but the Crazies did a great job last night. The "our house" was perfect and of course Jon rewarded the effort. Keep it up, Crazies!

[UrinalCake]

Everyone said the same thing about Redick, as late as his junior year. In a radio interview that year I heard Coach K tell a reporter, with more than a little bit of sarcasm, "we do teach our players how to dribble both right and left here at Duke." It reminds me of the movie Zoolander, where the guy who's a fashion model can only turn to his right. Great movie.

Anyways, my point is that I'm sure it's something G and the coaches are aware of, and that he's using his skills to the best of his ability.

[greybeard]

It seemed very early in the season as though Henderson had developed the left hand. But as the quality of competition has increased, his use of the left has evaporated. It's a disappointment. Perhaps being so physically dominant in high school against inferior defenses allowed him to get away with not developing the left. The only upside is that it may keep him in Duke blue for another year. If so, hopefully it's a work in progress and he unveils a more fully-developed game next year to complement what is already a pretty good skillset now (though he's very inconsistent).

VanGundy, I thought, was onto something last night when he explained why Curry's step back three was taken usually at least, going left. V said it was easier to square up for a jump shooter going left than right, which I always found to be true, as well. What he didn't get into is the WHY, and I think that the WHY has everything to do with Gerald's aversion to going left.

First let me say something about going "left." I am not talking here about using yur left hand to finish. That really is not tough and I doubt Gerald has any problem doing that. The problem is attacking off the crossover and setting one's body to finish. That is what I think is Gerald's problem. It also, in my opinion, influences his inconsistency in taking pull up jumpers going right.

Enough of a build up, here it is. The thing that makes pulling up for a jump shot going right more problematic for righties has to do with centrifical force. If you are moving right, on the stop and turn your right foot must come slightly forward of your left. That encourages a normal shoulder turn, with the ball outside of your right shoulder. Now, when you pivot on your left foot, the left chest is close to the middle of the circle and does not move very fast. The right shoulder, depending on how you hold it relative to the rest of you, and where you place your right foot width-wise relative to your left, will be moving quite a bit faster.

So, to square for a jump shot one has to stop that centrifical force. To the extent that it is still operating, directionality of the shot is a huge problem that is not present when shooting from a standstill, going forward, or going left (if done right). The centrifical force, by the way, affects the entire mass of body between the center of the circle, which would be your left foot and the outside, which would be the arm and ball, and not just the arm and ball.

The short of it is that to still yourself enough to shot with proper direction, a lot of musculatur and mental attention (whether you know it or not) has to be devoted to stopping the rotation as opposed to participating in the shot itself. Because the amount of centrifical force will vary from shot to shot--how fast were you going coming into the shot, how solid was your stop step, how far from your left foot was your right foot placed (the closer, the less centriphical force, did you dip your right shoulder, effectly folding your body making the radius of the turn still smaller, etc), the results of shooting off the bounce to the right is often inconsistent (unless one has a style that minimizes rotational influences and tries, where possible to change direction and start squaring up towards the end of the dribble.

At any rate, G man is used to fighting rotation of his body on the shot. He is used to devoting his mental acuity to dealing with this issue. He must be very good at it because he is so explosive going to his right and, notwithstanding that I do not see him doing the things that would minimize centriphical force on his stop and shoots, he is directionally very accurate.

So, with that much timing, mental accuity going into his Money game, and with the feel of fighting centriphical force being normative to him, going left and developing a variety of ways of delivery going in that direction, well, they are mysteries to Gerald, they do not have the same feel. If something "feels" wrong, and you devote so much of your mental accuity to honing your money shot that "feels" right but is so wrong, you have work to do that simple repetitions going left and pulling up, or going left and looking for ways to finish, will not address. Your improvement will not be what you would like no matter how many repetitions you do.

So, greywonder, where do we begin? With going right, of course, always with what is familiar and easy. We improve on that, and Gerald begins to understand where the improvement comes from, the reduction of centriphical force on the stop and the lack of flucuation in its amount, then learning about going left will begin to make sense.

Like I said, it's just a theory; actually not, I have a fair amount of experience with precisely this type of issue, but who would believe it. :o

Incidentally, when going left, there is no turning. Most players now when going on a straight line to the left do what Cazzie Russell started in the 60s or at least a derivation of it. Cazzie used to catch the ball off a low dribble (one bounce ) that coincided with the planting of his right foot, reaching down with his left hand to scoop the ball up, real low we are talking here, while slamming his right foot into the ground, still facing the sideline if he was moving say parallel to the foul line. This was all but completely stop his forward momentum (forward meaning movement to the left. Now righties shoot with their right foot forwad of their left, Caz would bring his left very close to his right and slightly behind and as his body straightened, he'd bring the ball up with his left hand to his right which was over his head and facing the basket, with his right elbow making a perfect L facing the basket. In the same motion he'd come up onto his toes and elvevate, turning his head over his right shoulder, looking at the basket. In that position, the shooting machine is in perfect alignment and amazing power and touch can be generated by waiting for the push in the ground to be felt in the hand, you pronate like crazy and you got a drop dead shot. Incidently, no, in this shot, at least as I did it, you did not square up to the basket. Your left and right shoulder made a straight line to the target, and your right elbow was spot on that same line. Perfect for direction and, if done correctly, mucho power (you just need to play with it a bit and pronate on the release like crazy).

Most modern players have some derivation of this move. Curry's step back is really a jump back. When Curry dribbles into his shot, his torso is always very well centered on his feet and he is never very far from shooting position. His body, to the extent there is some forward turn from left to right, settles while he is in the air, is countered by the direction he is moving in, and is quiet in terms of rotation well before the ball is in shooting position.

[CDu]

VanGundy, I thought, was onto something last night when he explained why Curry's step back three was taken usually at least, going left. V said it was easier to square up for a jump shooter going left than right, which I always found to be true, as well. What he didn't get into is the WHY, and I think that the WHY has everything to do with Gerald's aversion to going left.

First let me say something about going "left." I am not talking here about using yur left hand to finish. That really is not tough and I doubt Gerald has any problem doing that. The problem is attacking off the crossover and setting one's body to finish. That is what I think is Gerald's problem. It also, in my opinion, influences his inconsistency in taking pull up jumpers going right.

Enough of a build up, here it is. The thing that makes pulling up for a jump shot going right more problematic for righties as me and VanGundy agree has to do in my opinion with two related phenomenon, the most significant of which is centrifical force. If you are moving right, on the stop and turn your right foot must come slightly forward of your left. That encourages a normal shoulder turn, with the ball outside of your right shoulder. Now, when you pivot on your left foot, the left chest is close to the middle of the circle and does not move very fast. The right shoulder, depending on how you hold it relative to the rest of you, and where you place your right foot width-wise relative to your left, will be moving quite a bit faster.

So, to square for a jump shot one has to stop that centrifical force. To the extent that it is still operating, directionality of the shot is a huge problem that is not present when shooting from a standstill, going forward, or going left (if done right). The centrifical force, by the way, affects the entire mass of body between the center of the circle, which would be your left foot and the outside, which would be the arm and ball, and not just the arm and ball.

The short of it is that to still yourself enough to shot with proper direction, a lot of musculatur and mental attention (whether you know it or not) has to be devoted to stopping the rotation as opposed to participating in the shot itself. Because the amount of centrifical force will vary from shot to shot--how fast were you going coming into the shot, how solid was your stop step, how far from your left foot was your right foot placed (the closer, the less centriphical force, did you dip your right shoulder, effectly folding your body making the radius of the turn still smaller, etc), the results of shooting off the bounce to the right is often inconsistent (unless one has a style that minimizes rotational influences and tries, where possible to change direction and start squaring up towards the end of the dribble.

At any rate, G man is used to fighting rotation of his body on the shot. He is used to devoting his mental acuity to dealing with this issue. He must be very good at it because he is so explosive going to his right and, notwithstanding that I do not see him doing the things that would minimize centriphical force on his stop and shoots, he is directionally very accurate.

So, with that much timing, mental accuity going into his Money game, and with the feel of fighting centriphical force being normative to him, going left and developing a variety of ways of delivery going in that direction, well, they are mysteries to Gerald, they do not have the same feel. If something "feels" wrong, and you devote so much of your mental accuity to honing your money shot that "feels" right but is so wrong, you have work to do that simple repetitions going left and pulling up, or going left and looking for ways to finish, will not address. Your improvement will not be what you would like no matter how many repetitions you do.

So, greywonder, where do we begin? With going right, of course, always with what is familiar and easy. We improve on that, and Gerald begins to understand where the improvement comes from, the reduction of centriphical force on the stop and the lack of flucuation in its amount, then learning about going left will begin to make sense.

Like I said, it's just a theory; actually not, I have a fair amount of experience with precisely this type of issue, but who would believe it. :o

Would seem to me that the problem is more that Henderson is more comfortable driving while dribbling with the right hand and not as comfortable driving off the dribble with his left, rather than his comfort with "centriphical" (it's actually centrifugal) forces. Henderson isn't usually looking to pull up for a jumpshot when he drives. He's looking to get to the rim and throw down a dunk or a finger-roll.

[BlueDevilBaby]

I don't think Curry is cocky at all. I think he is tired and is conserving energy. It might also be his way of keeping his cool and not getting frustrated. I have zero problem with it. A coworker (who went to Davidson) said before last night's game that he has watched the last few Davidson games and thought Curry was looking pretty tired. Mouthpiece chewing? While not very attractive, I have no problem with it. Got to put it somewhere during timeouts so you can catch your breath. I tend to do the same with my nightguard, although in the privacy of my own home.

Enjoyed the game. I thought it was a pretty quiet 29 from Curry - never would have guessed he's scored that much. Jon and Kyle were my MOMs. Jon was just so steady throughout and Kyle was everywhere. Enjoyed the announcers as well, although I don't particularly care who is calling a game, as a previous poster said.

[calltheobvious]

First of all, I don't drink tea. Second, I specifically said I like Curry (his game is amazing) but I didn't like his cockiness out there last night. There are a number of other posters here with the same OPINION - mine was not the first. I am specifically referring to what I saw firsthand last night. What happens in other games is really irrelevant. My point was this... from the very beginning of the game he moped down court after bad plays. He strutted to the bench at timeouts. Body language says a lot and it can have a negative impact on the rest of your team. To me it's like he's saying... Damn, I gotta do it all. What kind of confidence does his lonely strut to the corner inspire in his teammates? As another poster mentioned, yes, Redick was as cocky as they come. But to me Curry's was a different kind of cockiness. It's seemed to border on disdain for the situation. At least that's what his body language said to me and others with whom I talked. Maybe Curry's teammates don't see it that way. I didn't ask them. But I wonder if he'd show a little pep, hustle over the huddle with everyone else, etc., whether it might give his teammates more of a boost, a little more confidence.

First, you were pretty clear the first time around that you attended the game, so no need to "firsthand" anyone.

Second, what's happened at other games is indeed relevant. If you can draw on a large enough sample size to say that he only "mopes" when the chips are down, then you may have something. But the picture you painted was of a guy who seems always to be very low-key. Not every leader does it like Shane Battier. And FWIW, had Shane had been a one-man show as opposed to playing with four future pros, maybe he would have taken a few more energy efficiencies himself.

All I'm saying is that you delivered some pretty scathing criticism of Steph Curry as a person, and did it based on a test that is neither perfectly valid nor perfectly reliable. You may be right about Curry. But there's a lot of evidence that says you're not, such as the fact that he cut up one of the nation's best defenses for the last 28 minutes of last night's game and never pointed, never smirked, never smiled incredulously. Lots of people 'round these parts got really sensitive really quick when some of those same acts were judged as reflective of the character of a certain recent Duke alum. Given the evidence, Curry deserves the benefit of what is certainly far greater doubt.

[Billy Dat]

(Disclaimed - I missed a lot of the game because of a TIVO snafu - game delay watchers like me, caveat emptor, I guess)

I was looking forward to the NBA announcers specifically to hear them comment on things from an NBA perspective, but I didn't hear any of what I wanted, specifically:

-How about assessing the NBA potential of someone other then Curry? Granted, I don't want to give our guys any idea, but you'd think there was zero potential NBA guys on the bench.

-Van Gundy was effusive in his praise of Battier when he coached the Rockets. How about a little tidbit on how the Duke system and K get guys ready for the pros, turn out fundementally sound pros, etc. What specifically about Shane's coaching at Duke has helped him in the NBA?

-How about a little about the different kind of offensive and defensive sets between college and the NBA? How is the strategy different?

I have heard a lot of people complain about Jimmy Dykes because of what he says about Duke or UNC, but I find he always teaches me something about strategy and sets...I wish I'd gotten more of that last night, especially from Van Gundy. Had it been Mike Breen instead of Tirico, it would have been that much better. Swap in Bobby Knight for Jackson, with Breen and Van Gundy - lights out.

[greybeard]

Would seem to me that the problem is more that Henderson is more comfortable driving while dribbling with the right hand and not as comfortable driving off the dribble with his left, rather than his comfort with "centriphical" (it's actually centrifugal) forces. Henderson isn't usually looking to pull up for a jumpshot when he drives. He's looking to get to the rim and throw down a dunk or a finger-roll.

Could be right but, like I tell kids when I talk about dribbling, you aren't going to miss the ground, all you have to do is slow the ball down as it goes up and decide when to change direction. You really think that Gerald has trouble dribbling lefty? I don't think that that is even remotely in the realm of possibility. He has been going to high end camps since he was six. He knows how to dribble left better than you and I can dribble right. He can make all type of lefty layups and probably hook shots. These are not the issues, I'd bet on that.

You are right, he doesn't shot a lot of pull up jumpers. However, those he does shoot, he shoots going right, even though as Van Gundy says, much easier to square up going left. How come? My guess, and again this is only a guess, is that Gerald has improved greatly on his three shot because he has eliminated something that often accompanies guys who develop shooting jump shots going right, from the time that they are very young. That would be including their shoulder in the shot, particularly their rear deltoids.

The reason that young kids prefer moving to their strong hand to "shoot" is that they try to "throw" the ball using their shoulder and torso rotation. The shoulder should not be in the shot. Many shooters who start with the style I just described never really "get" that the shoulder should have no role in the shot, and cannot eliminate it because they are not aware they are using it and should not be. I think that Gerald now has gotten all that (no easy achievement), and that that is why his three shot has improved so much.

By the way, there are many ways to throw a football and baseball generating force from the shoulder muscles. Much more forceful and accurate throws leave the shoulder muscles out of it.

[CDu]

Could be right but, like I tell kids when I talk about dribbling, you aren't going to miss the ground, all you have to do is slow the ball down as it goes up and decide when to change direction. You really think that Gerald has trouble dribbling lefty? I don't think that that is even remotely in the realm of possibility. He has been going to high end camps since he was six. He knows how to dribble left better than you and I can dribble right. He can make all type of lefty layups and probably hook shots. These are not the issues, I'd bet on that.

That's not what I suggested at all. I'm quite confident Henderson knows how to dribble with his left hand. But it's not a matter of Henderson being unable to bounce the ball and have it return to his hand. Dribble-driving against defense is not that simple, and you know it (at least I hope you know it). It takes confidence and comfort in addition to the prerequisite physical capability. It appears to me that Henderson doesn't have that comfort/confidence (yet).

I think Henderson does not have confidence driving to his left against good defense. As evidence, he seemed to show a willingness to go to his left a bit very early in this season against inferior competition. Now that the competition (and defensive ability) has increased, he's stopped going left. That's why I suggest that it's a lack of confidence in driving off the dribble to his left. If it was anything else, I don't think you would have seen him going left a bit more frequently earlier in the season.


You are right, he doesn't shot a lot of pull up jumpers. However, those he does shoot, he shoots going right, even though as Van Gundy says, much easier to square up going left. How come? My guess, and again this is only a guess, is that Gerald has improved greatly on his three shot because he has eliminated something that often accompanies guys who develop shooting jump shots going right, from the time that they are very young. That would be including their shoulder in the shot, particularly their rear deltoids.

My guess is that the reason he takes more jumpshots going right rather than left is because he's more comfortable dribbling to his right. If he's only willing to drive to his right, he's only going to get to shoot when dribbling to his right. After all, it's hard to shoot going left when you don't dribble going left.


The reason that young kids prefer moving to their strong hand to "shoot" is that they try to "throw" the ball using their shoulder and torso rotation. The shoulder should not be in the shot. Many shooters who start with the style I just described never really "get" that the shoulder should have no role in the shot, and cannot eliminate it because they are not aware they are using it and should not be. I think that Gerald now has gotten all that (no easy achievement), and that that is why his three shot has improved so much.

I think Henderson has long progressed past the "shoulder" shot - long before he got to Duke. Ever since I've seen him in the blue, he's always had a high-floating wrist shot, elevating above the defender and waiting until there's an opening and flicking the shot off. This shoulder shot is gone for coordinated basketball players by the time they reach high school (if not sooner), and I suspect that Henderson got past that problem no later than early high school (probably middle school).

I could be wrong, but I don't think I am on this one. I'm not saying that your analysis of biomechanics in general is wrong. I just don't think it applies in this particular case.

[jpfrizzle]

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d155/jpFrizzle/JonScheyer1000thpoint-1.jpg

[lifelongdevil]

with all the the early season talk about lack of student presence, last night the studnet section was packed to capacity, despite that hurricane outside. I walked up at 5:00 and was one of the last 10 students to get in. I know that 150+ werent able to get in.

I did have a question though, does the opposing section seem bigger than in past years? With the dignitaries behind the duke bench and the opposing fans behind their bench, the student section on that side of Cameron in almost nonexistent.

[Kedsy]

I like Curry, but I think it's too early to be likening his impact in the pro game to that of LeBron. Vitale said very strongly that Curry will be a very high draft pick, start immediately and be a huge star in the NBA, scoring 20 or more points per game. We'll see.

They were saying LeBron sometimes comes to watch Curry play. I don't think any sane individual would liken Curry's impact to LeBron's. The NBA announcers all agreed Curry wouldn't start for every team in the League (but he would for some), and that sure isn't true about LBJ.

[CDu]

They were saying LeBron sometimes comes to watch Curry play. I don't think any sane individual would liken Curry's impact to LeBron's. The NBA announcers all agreed Curry wouldn't start for every team in the League (but he would for some), and that sure isn't true about LBJ.

Nobody was suggesting that Curry could get to LeBron's level of superstardom. They concurred that on a bad team (which is where he'll likely wind up) he can be a starting PG in the NBA. Vitale, of course, went further to say he'd be a star and score 20+ points per game right away. This is classic Vitale, though - every college star is going to succeed at the next level, despite the reality that most college stars don't succeed.

[Kedsy]

I was looking forward to the NBA announcers specifically to hear them comment on things from an NBA perspective, but I didn't hear any of what I wanted, specifically:

-How about assessing the NBA potential of someone other then Curry? Granted, I don't want to give our guys any idea, but you'd think there was zero potential NBA guys on the bench.


Early in the game they appraised Singler and and predicted he was going to be very successful in the League. I didn't hear them mention any other current Duke player in that regard.

My favorite part was before the game when the NBA guys toured the Duke facilities and Jackson gushed that if he was a high school player and he got an offer he'd be going to Duke.

[Kedsy]

Enough of a build up, here it is. The thing that makes pulling up for a jump shot going right more problematic for righties has to do with centrifical force.

* * *

At any rate, G man is used to fighting rotation of his body on the shot. He is used to devoting his mental acuity to dealing with this issue. He must be very good at it because he is so explosive going to his right and, notwithstanding that I do not see him doing the things that would minimize centriphical force on his stop and shoots, he is directionally very accurate.


No offense intended, but if you go off on a long-winded essay about biomechanics (and you wish to be taken seriously) it might behoove you to learn how to spell "centrifugal," and you might also want to take the time to consider that the force you are actually talking about is called "centripetal."

[hurleyfor3]

I did have a question though, does the opposing section seem bigger than in past years? With the dignitaries behind the duke bench and the opposing fans behind their bench, the student section on that side of Cameron in almost nonexistent.

If only you knew about BOG...

[natedog4ever]

At the risk of making this into a "pile on G" thread, I think you guys are missing another important part of the problem. You are talking about shooting jump shots going right versus going left. He is actully going right and putting up very weak hook shots. They are not even jumpers.

The circus layup against Vassalo is a great example. There was no reason to make that shot that hard. It's like he's trying too hard to protect the ball and doesn't want to put it out in front of his body.

[CDu]

At the risk of making this into a "pile on G" thread, I think you guys are missing another important part of the problem. You are talking about shooting jump shots going right versus going left. He is actully going right and putting up very weak hook shots. They are not even jumpers.

The circus layup against Vassalo is a great example. There was no reason to make that shot that hard. It's like he's trying too hard to protect the ball and doesn't want to put it out in front of his body.

It appears that defenses have figured out Henderson's preferences. Whenever he has the ball on the left wing, the wing defender on the opposite side simply hedges down to the free throw line. The on-ball defender knows he wants to go to his right, so he just funnels him into the help. When he's on the right wing, the baseline defender on that side just hedges out a bit and creates a similar trap out front of the right block.

Ballhandling (at the collegiate level, at least) doesn't appear to be Henderson's strength, or at the very least he's not confident in himself in that regard. He's developing a better perimeter shot, which hopefully will eventually free up room for him to develop a pump-fake game to drive to the basket or set up his excellent mid-range jumper. Right now, though, teams just aren't respecting his perimeter shot yet. So the pump-fake is rendered useless.

I don't want this to sound like a Henderson-bash either. He's a phenomenal athlete and is tremendously productive in spite of this. He is very active on the boards (on both ends), is an active cutter off the ball (creating many of those beautiful alley-oops), and a very willing defender. And he's still been a pretty effective scorer for the most part. It's just that his potential is limitless if he could just improve a bit in these areas we're discussing.

[mike88]

Gerald's weakness going left is accentuated, I think, by his amazing strength in driving to the right. I am impressed that when he gets an open lane to the right, it is very hard to stop him wiothout fouling. Unfortunately, better defensive teams, particularly well-coached ones, won't make that easy.

He doesn't have to be great going left, just good enough. I hope that he decides to stay another year, works on that aspect of his game, and then comes back next season and dominates on a regular basis.

That said, he has a nice enough shot and exceptional rebounding and defensive ability that he can play 1st-2nd team All-ACC level this season ball without any improvement in his ball-handling.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

First, you were pretty clear the first time around that you attended the game, so no need to "firsthand" anyone.

Second, what's happened at other games is indeed relevant. If you can draw on a large enough sample size to say that he only "mopes" when the chips are down, then you may have something. But the picture you painted was of a guy who seems always to be very low-key. Not every leader does it like Shane Battier. And FWIW, had Shane had been a one-man show as opposed to playing with four future pros, maybe he would have taken a few more energy efficiencies himself.

All I'm saying is that you delivered some pretty scathing criticism of Steph Curry as a person, and did it based on a test that is neither perfectly valid nor perfectly reliable. You may be right about Curry. But there's a lot of evidence that says you're not, such as the fact that he cut up one of the nation's best defenses for the last 28 minutes of last night's game and never pointed, never smirked, never smiled incredulously. Lots of people 'round these parts got really sensitive really quick when some of those same acts were judged as reflective of the character of a certain recent Duke alum. Given the evidence, Curry deserves the benefit of what is certainly far greater doubt.

Look, let's not turn this into a pissing contest. This is a discussion board and I was stating an opinion that happens to be shared by some others. I wasn't stating anything as fact or attempting to prove a theory. All I was saying is that I and several others I spoke with at the game agreed that Curry's moping strut, particularly at timeouts, had an air of cockiness that may not necessarily be good or productive for his team. It seemed a bit disrespectful... like when the best player on pickup team becomes noticeably discouraged and annoyed with his team as if to say why can't the rest of the team perform up to my expectations. It doesn't provide positive reinforcement.

I don't see how my comments could be taken as a scathing indictment of Curry as a person. I didn't say he was a bad person - I would have absolutely no reason to say anything like that. But I do question the way he seemed to be expressing himself last night, especially as the team's leader. It just felt like his body language was saying... man, I'm doing everything I can but I can't do it alone. To me it's the kind of cockiness that's not productive. Sure, JJ used to respond to opposing crowds when they got on him. Kyle is apt to grin or shoot his "guns" into the camera after a dunk. But that's more about playing with an edge. This was different. I could easily be mistaken. But I think body language says quite a lot.

[davekay1971]

If only you knew about BOG...

BOG was around when I was a student. I was of the belief it stood for Bunch of Guys, but was told that it stood for something much more insidious. Information if you have any would be appreciated...

I do remember the BOGger's being a very vocal presence behind the opposing team's bench. I also remember a BOGger running for student body president. I think I voted for him out of sheer amusement.

[jv001]

I see where Curry's actions could be looked at as loafing or seeming not to care because he may think he is the only player on his team. However I don't think that is the case. He seems to be a very nice young man and we need to remember he is just a soph. He just does not come across negatively to me but that is just my opinion. That's what this site is all about. Our opinions. So all I can say is Go Duke!

[davekay1971]

Look, let's not turn this into a pissing contest. This is a discussion board and I was stating an opinion that happens to be shared by some others. I wasn't stating anything as fact or attempting to prove a theory. All I was saying is that I and several others I spoke with at the game agreed that Curry's moping strut, particularly at timeouts, had an air of cockiness that may not necessarily be good or productive for his team. It seemed a bit disrespectful... like when the best player on pickup team becomes noticeably discouraged and annoyed with his team as if to say why can't the rest of the team perform up to my expectations. It doesn't provide positive reinforcement.

I don't see how my comments could be taken as a scathing indictment of Curry as a person. I didn't say he was a bad person - I would have absolutely no reason to say anything like that. But I do question the way he seemed to be expressing himself last night, especially as the team's leader. It just felt like his body language was saying... man, I'm doing everything I can but I can't do it alone. To me it's the kind of cockiness that's not productive. Sure, JJ used to respond to opposing crowds when they got on him. Kyle is apt to grin or shoot his "guns" into the camera after a dunk. But that's more about playing with an edge. This was different. I could easily be mistaken. But I think body language says quite a lot.

I can't say for certain because I'm not on Davidson's team...but the word I get from a few people close to the team is that they appreciate Curry very much as a leader and think he is a phenomenal teammate. Not just because he's a star, but because they feel he leads by example in practice and in game, and that he's all about the team before himself. If that's all true, I don't think his body language going to and from the bench is going to negatively impact his team.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I do remember the BOGger's being a very vocal presence behind the opposing team's bench.

I think "very vocal presence" is still understating it. :D I remember when opposing teams brought their own fold-up seats so they could have full length timeouts out on the playing floor... b/c the boggers used to lean as far out as they could toward the opposing team bench and yell (ahhhhh) for the entire duration of the timeout. They were nuts but they were entertaining.

[mapei]

I don't have a problem with Curry's body language. To me, it's very neutral, almost passive, certainly not offensive. The mouthpiece annoyed the hell out of me because it's kinda disgusting and ugly - but I think that's just immaturity and temporary, the way some guys wear the ugliest headbands in the world.

I didn't like the way Duke played much of the game, though obviously building that huge lead was a great stretch - and turned out to be necessary. But Davidson was the better team much of the second half, playing great position D, forcing Duke into a bad shot as the clock was winding down (how many times did that happen last night? more than I can remember), and limiting Duke to one shot with very good rebounding. I think our quality went down quite a bit when Zoubek went out.

Jon came up large at the end. And kudos to Lance for hitting those clutch free throws.

[davidson]

I could easily be mistaken. But I think body language says quite a lot.

You are very much mistaken.

Those of us fortunate enough to not only see Davidson play regularly, but also get to live in a small community where you actually get to know the players and coaches off the court, can tell you that the relationship among the team is one of pure love, trust and committment to each other. Check out the book "Taking the Shot" by Michael Kruse - you might view Steph and his teammates in a different manner.

I'm sorry you feel the need to post (three times now in this thread) that you incorrectly interpreted body language which demonstrated that he is "cocky", that he "mopes", and that is disresepectful to his teammates and detrimental to their team. I'm more sorry that you miss one of the better stories in recent sports of a good kid, a grounded kid, and a kid who is truly a better person than he is a player.

[Saratoga2]

I have yet to read through all the prior e-mails but would like to share my thoughts before reading others inputs.

Referees:
To me the referees called too many questionable charges. I agree with the NBA guys on that front. They also seemed to be looking for traveling calls. I don't think there was an unbalance in calls, just more than seems normal in the charging area.

Defense:
Davidson's defense was very aggressive. I remember the forarm shiver delivered to Singler that took him out of the game temporarily. Davidson is a well coached team that kept pressure on Duke throughout the game.

Starters vs subs:
When Zoubek was in along with the starters, we seemed to play better defense and rebound better. I also thought our offense ran through him and was smoother when we chose to use him. When either Thomas or McClure were in for him, our defense and rebounding seemed to suffer.

When Greg came in, both the defense and the offense seemed to suffer. He made a couple of turnovers, but that wasn't the main problem. We seemed to stagnate on offense.

When we went back to the starters, we had Henderson, Smith and Singler all attempt to go to the basket for scores and all failed. The game was getting dicey. It was Scheyer who turned the game back around in our favor.

The botton line for me is that we are not all that deep a team. McClure and Thomas are good players but our team doesn't do as well with them in.

I thought Williams showed well in the game defensively. He got to play 5 minutes with the top players and didn't look out of place.

[Hancock 4 Duke]

We almost covered te point spread(14) but that was too close for comfort at times. How could we let Curry score 21 in the second half? Well, we still won, so that is good!

[Neals384]

VanGundy, I thought, was onto something last night when he explained why Curry's step back three was taken usually at least, going left. V said it was easier to square up for a jump shooter going left than right, which I always found to be true, as well. What he didn't get into is the WHY, and I think that the WHY has everything to do with Gerald's aversion to going left.

...

Most modern players have some derivation of this move. Curry's step back is really a jump back. When Curry dribbles into his shot, his torso is always very well centered on his feet and he is never very far from shooting position. His body, to the extent there is some forward turn from left to right, settles while he is in the air, is countered by the direction he is moving in, and is quiet in terms of rotation well before the ball is in shooting position.

Awesome analysis, Mr. greybeard! I recall Van Gundy's comment and wished he had explained further at the time. Thank you!

[DBFAN]

Why are so many people getting upset with someone stating their opinion about S. Curry? I dont care to much for him, but why would that bother any one here? The reality is his 29 points were basically pointless, if instead he looked more to get his team involved instead of launching it every time he got it, Davidson may have done better. Compare his number of shots to his assists. (or his number of shots compared to Scheyer) So far they have not really beaten anybody credible, Please don't count State as a credible team. Right now they are a team like Gonzaga was a couple of years ago, good enough to compete, but not good enough to beat the top teams. Now none of those things have any thing to do with how he is as a person, just going by what he did.

Hey did anyone catch the lady wearing the "Witness" shirt behind the Davidson bench, please he is not Lebron. I just do not think his small frame will help him in the NBA, 30 games a season is a lot different that 70 games, against the best Basketball players in the world. But really do you even know of any UNC players who would just take their time to go back to the bench during a timeout? People can only judge you by what they see, off the court he may be a tremendous person, but I too thought it was a little disrespectful.

Just my 2 cents

[Kedsy]

He seems to be a very nice young man and we need to remember he is just a soph.

Curry is a Junior.

[lifelongdevil]

I have to agree with others assessment of his body language being negative and arrogant.

Having gone to high school here in North Carolina I have a number of friends at Davidson, including one on the team. It seems that Steph is generally a nice guy around campus and such. My friend on the team had less positive things to say, seeing him as cocky and slightly entitled.

[-jk]

Folks, can't we just respect a talented opponent who has done nothing other than appear a bit too casual for some people's taste? Perhaps McKillop - who has expressed a concern that Curry may wear down - wants him to walk to the bench and otherwise not push himself anytime the clock isn't running.

We probably could do better than project our expectations onto him, and just take his performance (and reports from Davidson fans) at face value.

He's the best player - by far - on a very good team. I don't see why we should try to tear him down with pure speculation rather than give him, his teammates, and his coach the benefit of the doubt.

(And personally, I see these comments as borderline "destructively negative". We would never countenance them regarding a Duke player.)

-jk

[Virginian]

They were saying LeBron sometimes comes to watch Curry play. I don't think any sane individual would liken Curry's impact to LeBron's. The NBA announcers all agreed Curry wouldn't start for every team in the League (but he would for some), and that sure isn't true about LBJ.

I agree completely. I was exaggerating for effect. Sorry if I wasn't clear. But Vitale really did go over the top in his prediction about Curry's NBA success, IMO. But then, when doesn't he?

[mgtr]

He's the best player - by far - on a very good team.

-jk

And, he is, what? 19? 20? years old. How many of us weren't jerks in some respect at that age?
I enjoy watching him play, and am willing to overlook some personal traits. I don't care for the mouthpiece or the strolling back to the bench, but I am not in charge of the Davidson team.
Somebody said that it isn't bragging if you can do it. I think that Curry can definitely do it. Furthermore, I would expect that only three people have the right/ability to analyze and change his behavior (if necessary). His parents, who are obviously interested in him, and his coach. Among those three, I would expect he will be knocked back a step if needed. It may not be needed, and some of these traits may be disappear with time. Regardless, he is a terrific player.

[Karl Beem]

Folks, can't we just respect a talented opponent who has done nothing other than appear a bit too casual for some people's taste? Perhaps McKillop - who has expressed a concern that Curry may wear down - wants him to walk to the bench and otherwise not push himself anytime the clock isn't running.

-jk

I just finished an article in Basketball Times about Curry. One thing that McKillop liked about Curry is that the latter's expression never changed, regardless of whether he made a great or bad play.

[jimsumner]

If Stephen Curry averaged 2 points per game, he still is the kind of kid who would be welcomed on any college team in the country. No one who knows him or closely follows college basketball or Davidson basketball would agree with the harsh assessment of him expressed here by several posters.

[elvis14]

You are very much mistaken.

Those of us fortunate enough to not only see Davidson play regularly, but also get to live in a small community where you actually get to know the players and coaches off the court, can tell you that the relationship among the team is one of pure love, trust and committment to each other. Check out the book "Taking the Shot" by Michael Kruse - you might view Steph and his teammates in a different manner.

I'm sorry you feel the need to post (three times now in this thread) that you incorrectly interpreted body language which demonstrated that he is "cocky", that he "mopes", and that is disresepectful to his teammates and detrimental to their team. I'm more sorry that you miss one of the better stories in recent sports of a good kid, a grounded kid, and a kid who is truly a better person than he is a player.

I also noticed Curry's poor body language LAST NIGHT. Does that mean he's a bad teammate? No. Does that mean he is always that way? No. I've seen several of this games, tuned in just to see him in fact. Last night was the first time I've seen him like that. I didn't post anything about it earlier because I thought it had been covered (some saw it that way, others didn't).

Note, that's not scathing Curry and I'm certainly not trying to be harsh. I've watched and read much about him and have lots of respect for him as a person and a player. I think I noticed his body language last night because it seemed so out of character. It was the moping that I noticed BTW, not the cockyness. Even good kids can have bad night.

[greybeard]

That's not what I suggested at all. I'm quite confident Henderson knows how to dribble with his left hand. But it's not a matter of Henderson being unable to bounce the ball and have it return to his hand. Dribble-driving against defense is not that simple, and you know it (at least I hope you know it). It takes confidence and comfort in addition to the prerequisite physical capability. It appears to me that Henderson doesn't have that comfort/confidence (yet).

I think Henderson does not have confidence driving to his left against good defense. As evidence, he seemed to show a willingness to go to his left a bit very early in this season against inferior competition. Now that the competition (and defensive ability) has increased, he's stopped going left. That's why I suggest that it's a lack of confidence in driving off the dribble to his left. If it was anything else, I don't think you would have seen him going left a bit more frequently earlier in the season.



My guess is that the reason he takes more jumpshots going right rather than left is because he's more comfortable dribbling to his right. If he's only willing to drive to his right, he's only going to get to shoot when dribbling to his right. After all, it's hard to shoot going left when you don't dribble going left.

This is fun, CDU, for real. Not saying you're wrong, well I am, but not stridently, but I do have to disagree.

In my experience, people (kids on up) have difficulty going one way or the other because they don't have sufficient options (with kids and poor players even one) that they can rely on. It is not the dribbling that gives them difficulty, it is that literally they do not know where they are going.

If, as VanGundy posits, it is easier to jump shoot going left (for a righty), I will do him one better and say that there are significantlymore potential finishes going left than right. Going right, you can if you are skilled change the angle of the finish and the height against the backboard, maybe adding a little english, all off a hook like motion and maybe change the trajectory of the hook-like motion to go so far as an underhand scoop (a lost art perhaps necessitated by the bounce and quickness of alff the ball defenders). And maybe, you could throw in slowing on the move to the right, coming to a one two stop for a jump shot, and step through off a fake, or fake to stop your rotational momentum, and and shoot a little fall away, aka MJ, who rather than a step through, faked a spin toward the middle and turned back again much more under control.

I'll leave the variations of finishes going left for another post. Don't want to lose everybody, but for me at least there is no comparison in terms of potential angles of attack, quick jump shots, shooting righty off the wrong foot bringing the ball back behind your ear and literally throwing it with your wrist, step sliding into an underhand attack, or a jump stop, and a variety depending on skill of hook-like finishes using the left.

So, these multiple options take playing around. All require deftness of footwork that fit the move, different types of dribbles and especially, different catches off the dribble and bringing it to shooting. Just examine a bunch of good players and notice their prime choices of finishing going left and try to figure backwards into what makes the move both effective (it beats the defender with a fair amount of regularity) and repeatable (it always seems to go in).

This is where, in my opinion, Gerald is behind the curve. Why? It is not because he lacks a high basketball IQ, figuring out what works. You need only look at him play to know that that cannot be the problem. So what is it then?

I have already told you. He has to work much harder and longer on his shot than he should and I believe it is because of the vestiges of being right dominant at an early age and having to deal with the rotation and throwing issues that being effective at that early age built into his body. My man Sage spoke to the problems that early-age bad habbits can wrought and this is in my view a prime example.


I think Henderson has long progressed past the "shoulder" shot - long before he got to Duke. Ever since I've seen him in the blue, he's always had a high-floating wrist shot, elevating above the defender and waiting until there's an opening and flicking the shot off. This shoulder shot is gone for coordinated basketball players by the time they reach high school (if not sooner), and I suspect that Henderson got past that problem no later than early high school (probably middle school).

I could be wrong, but I don't think I am on this one. I'm not saying that your analysis of biomechanics in general is wrong. I just don't think it applies in this particular case.

I agree with your description of Gerald's shot, it is vivid and accurate as hell. And, I am sure that he got rid of throwing the ball at the rim early on, as you note. That does not mean, however, that he got rid of the habituation in its subtle forms that shooting the ball involves for him. To state it differently, that does not mean that he has rid himself of excess rotation in his torso going right, or of tensing his shoulder in bringing the ball into shooting position.

This truly is my area of expertise, how people learn some pretty disfunctional ways of doing things on the way up, how they might make some modifications in how they do them, but how the vestiges go unnoticed and unaddressed, even in the world of preofessional skill coaching and physical training.

Now, I am not saying that my hypothesis about Gerald is correct. However, I think it is likely. If you acccept my hypothesis for a moment, make believe you are Gerald in the following scenario.

You have received training from the very best including your father, your preference is to shoot a jump shot moving to the right, often directly parallel to the baseline, and have practiced doing so in numbers that are mine numbing (we all have such numbers, but I'm sure guys on his level eclipse even the most serious of amateurs). Now, one day you go out shooting and, I don't know, your timing is impecable, or you are keeping your turn especially tight and small though you aren't aware of it or how you are doing it, but you are shooting lights out. The next day the turn is bigger, the adjustments to fight against rotational forces are much more demanding, your shoulder reaction kicks in to the familiar other feels going on, and you can't throw it in the ocean.

What do you do? You assume that you are off and that with more practice you will find your shot. So you practice more and more what you do best without knowing what about it that you do that causes you the consistency problems you encounter.

We saw exactly the same thing going on with Nelson and his foul shot. He literally had to fight bending his right forarm back until his hand touched his shoulder to avoid catapulting the ball at the basket instead of shooting it. Never quite came to terms with it.

Finally, the only way one notices these subtle forces is by being quite and developing the ability to discern. You replicate the same movements even though you are shooting 3 foot shots and are not jumping. You do everything the same as if you are darting across the floor and stopping and turning for a 15-17 footer, only now you are walking slowly as you dribble and are flexing and extending just the same as with the big shot only much more slowly. Then you can make progress, at least you will know how it is that your body is working, the forces you create, in your style of shooting. From there choice and change are possible.

As I've mentioned before, I have just completed my second year of a four year training in a body of work about movement and learning known as the Feldenkrais Method. I have found that some of the strategies that contribute to the Method's efficacy have been known to and used by me most of my life. If any of you mokes live in the DC area and are interested in any of the perspectives that I have to share (either about improving your basketball game or some other movement type issue, throw me an e-mail. Right now I'm dirt cheap, as in nothing. You can often find me in the evening Tues-Thurs at the Jelleff gym, where I try to help coaches and kids make practices more productive.

Thanks for listening. I do love this stuff.

[davekay1971]

One thing I do want to say, perhaps to make sure it doesn't get lost in the talk of Curry (both positive and, curiously to me, negative), is the deep respect I've developed for Bob McKillop.

Everything I've seen and read about him indicates that he is an extremely classy individual with a real love and respect for the game. He seems to value the history and spirit of the game. And he appears to be a phenomenal teacher of the game. I'm very glad that Davidson has been such a regular part of Duke's schedule, and hope that we continue to play Davidson as long as McKillop is there. It's got to be a valuable experience for our guys to play against a team that may not be as talented, but will always be well coached and play with intensity.

[BD80]

Couple of questions -

Did anyone else think that Curry's drive in the first half was a blatant travel?
Looked to me like he's been studying Lebron. I slowed it down on the DVR and counted 2 1/2 steps. Funny thing, ESPN showed it over and over as a first half highlight.

Singler going down like he was shot was one thing, but wasn't another Duke player thrown to the floor after a whistle blew? While I dislike teams playing like that against us, I think it is a great learning experience for the team, and we handled it very well.

[greybeard]

One thing I do want to say, perhaps to make sure it doesn't get lost in the talk of Curry (both positive and, curiously to me, negative), is the deep respect I've developed for Bob McKillop.

Everything I've seen and read about him indicates that he is an extremely classy individual with a real love and respect for the game. He seems to value the history and spirit of the game. And he appears to be a phenomenal teacher of the game. I'm very glad that Davidson has been such a regular part of Duke's schedule, and hope that we continue to play Davidson as long as McKillop is there. It's got to be a valuable experience for our guys to play against a team that may not be as talented, but will always be well coached and play with intensity.

I don't like McKillop's style of defense, see earlier post. I see it as one piece with the styles played by teams like the U. I think that Davidson gets away with playing that style even more than the U because they are Davidson. I think that the referees are way too tolerant of littles literally climbing on people anywhere near the basket and taking the type of shots at people that doubled Kyle over.

So, this guy might love the game, and you can't help but love the way his team plays offense, in my view his defensive approach does the game a great disservice. That said, I suppose it is on the refs.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I don't like McKillop's style of defense, see earlier post. I see it as one piece with the styles played by teams like the U. I think that Davidson gets away with playing that style even more than the U because they are Davidson. I think that the referees are way too tolerant of littles literally climbing on people anywhere near the basket and taking the type of shots at people that doubled Kyle over.

So, this guy might love the game, and you can't help but love the way his team plays offense, in my view his defensive approach does the game a great disservice. That said, I suppose it is on the refs.

I was at the game but couldn't tell what happened to Kyle when he doubled over. At first we thought he'd hurt his arm or hand. What actually happened?

[elvis14]

I was at the game but couldn't tell what happened to Kyle when he doubled over. At first we thought he'd hurt his arm or hand. What actually happened?

A Davidson player hit him with an elbow as he passed him. Threw it out there chicken wing style on the way by while chasing another player with the ball. After seeing the reply I was surprised Kyle was in so much pain, it didn't look like he got hit that hard. Must have been one of those instances where he just got hit in the wrong place (humerus to rib perhaps).


Singler going down like he was shot was one thing, but wasn't another Duke player thrown to the floor after a whistle blew? While I dislike teams playing like that against us, I think it is a great learning experience for the team, and we handled it very well.

BD80, I feel the same way. This game was called more like a tournament game (where not much is called) and I think it's good for our team to get lots of experience playing this style of ball (even though it's not what I want to see). I'd rather see a more cleanly played game with less contact and more offense but it's nice to see a Duke team play rough and tumble and not struggle. Of course this means that I do feel that we have struggled with this style in the past.

[greybeard]

I was at the game but couldn't tell what happened to Kyle when he doubled over. At first we thought he'd hurt his arm or hand. What actually happened?

Gratuitous elbow it seemed to the lower ribs, very deliberate.

Their style of defense on the interior is very aggressive physically. They initiate physical contact with much of their bodies and keep it, with arms extended to prevent bigs from even lifting their own arms if they can. They lean and keep contact throughout, and try to impede any movement whatever on the floor. These guys get under the bigs and use center of gravity, leverage to be real physical. Their arms are situated such as to frequently cause significant contact, sometimes with opponents faces and heads but often causing a player to think twice before moving in normal ways on the court in fear of being called for an offensive foul (if an arm or hand is situated such that if you move you might get clobbered, you spread out your own arms or elbows, and move to provide a protective shield, which often is then called a "clear out" by the refs; it ain't).

I thought that both Duke's bigs did an excellent job of positioning notwithstanding these tactics. However, there were no passing lanes as such, only elevated lanes to a receiver who would undoubtedly be pushed on the catch to reposition the receiver to a safe spot (from the defense's point of view) on the floor.

If Duke did that to Davidson, the whistle would blow every time down. Davidson gets away with this nonsense, as does the U, only Davidson even more.

As I mentioned, I think that Duke should have thrown it real high to Zoubek consistently. Had they, I think that Davidson's entire front court would have fouled out or nearly fouled out by the half. Had the refs called the game according to the rules, they would have anyway.

This is so on the coach of Davidson who does the game a disservice by this tactic. I have said exactly the same thing about Miami's coach. Ditto for Purdue's, but to a lesser extent than the other two. The Purdue coach will let his team compete more straight up if he thinks they can.

Davidson cannot compete on the big stage without this tactic being pushed way beyond the limits. The U, they can, but that don't matter; Miami's coach will have his boys beat you up whether they need to or not. Both are equally culpable in my book.

The refs need to man up on this; so do the announcers.