Lance Stephenson- NYC Recruiting

[NYC Duke Fan]

I have never heard his name mentioned at all as a possible recruit. Is Coach K recruiting him, and if not why not ? He is a premier back court player currently playing for Lincoln High School in Brooklyn.

For some reason, I never hear that Coach K recruits in NYC...in New Jersey yes, but not in NYC..any reason why not? The last recruit that came out of NYC was Andre Sweet, who transferred.

While I am thinking about it, I never hear that he is recruiting in Philadelphia either.

I understand that there are academic requirements that have to be met, but I am sure that in all these years there had to be top recruits in NYC and Philadelphia who could have met the academic requirements to play basketball at Duke.

[slower]

I have never heard his name mentioned at all as a possible recruit. Is Coach K recruiting him, and if not why not ? He is a premier back court player currently playing for Lincoln High School in Brooklyn.

For some reason, I never hear that Coach K recruits in NYC...in New Jersey yes, but not in NYC..any reason why not? The last recruit that came out of NYC was Andre Sweet, who transferred.

While I am thinking about it, I never hear that he is recruiting in Philadelphia either.

I understand that there are academic requirements that have to be met, but I am sure that in all these years there had to be top recruits in NYC and Philadelphia who could have met the academic requirements to play basketball at Duke.

1. Stephenson and his entourage are a circus. Plus, he doesn't project the outward appearance of being a particularly high-character or team-first individual.

2. The academic requirements probably play a fairly large role in the situation you describe.

3. Gerald Henderson is from the Philly metro area. Plus, there was this kid named Gene Banks. Granted, 20+ years ago.

[tbyers11]

I have never heard his name mentioned at all as a possible recruit. Is Coach K recruiting him, and if not why not ? He is a premier back court player currently playing for Lincoln High School in Brooklyn.

For some reason, I never hear that Coach K recruits in NYC...in New Jersey yes, but not in NYC..any reason why not? The last recruit that came out of NYC was Andre Sweet, who transferred.

While I am thinking about it, I never hear that he is recruiting in Philadelphia either.

I understand that there are academic requirements that have to be met, but I am sure that in all these years there had to be top recruits in NYC and Philadelphia who could have met the academic requirements to play basketball at Duke.

I don't follow recruiting religiously and am sure others can provide more detailed answers, but I know that for Lance Stephenson academics, baggage and attitude have all been big question marks about him for a long time. Here is an article (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/seth_davis/07/03/hoop.thoughts/index.html) about Stephenson from the summer.

As for recruiting in Philadelphia, have you by chance heard of a player named Gerald Henderson who came from Episcopal Academy in Merion, Pa? It's not a public high school in central Philadelphia, but he's definitely from the Philly area.

[roywhite]

Other recent recruits from the Philadelphia area include Lee Melchionni (Germantown Academy) and Kobe Bryant (Lower Merion HS; well, he said he would have gone to Duke:) ).

[NYC Duke Fan]

Thanks for the info but I was referring more to NYC and Philadelphia, ( city not environs ). There must be a reason though.

Maybe it is the academic requirements.

[Olympic Fan]

I have a friend who writes about NYC prep basketball and he started writing me about Stephenson when he was a ninth grader. I got to see the kid play on a 16-and-under team at the Gibbons Tourney -- Lance was a powerful 6-5/6-6 wing guard ... very impressive.

By the next spring, the Gibbons Tourney late in his sophomore season, Stephenson was even better -- a physically overpowering backcourt performer (although definitely a wing and not a playmaker).

But my friend was heartbroken by what had happened to the great kid he had gotten to know a year earlier. The kid was being shopped to AAU teams (for under the table money) and was looking to jump high schools. He had collected an entourage to rival the one Sebastian Telfair collected.

I don't know about grades (although it doesn't sound good) ... but what I know suggests that Stephenson will go to the highest bidder. I'm glad we're not involved.

As for not recruiting New York or Philly kids -- well, if you are going to exclude the suburbs, then it's fair to say that NOBODY in the ACC is recruiting those two cities. At the moment, there are just two city kids on ACC rosters and both are marginal players (Malcolm Grant of Brooklyn at Miami and Sammy Zeglinski from Philly at Virginia). If you include suburbs, you get a lot -- from Henderson and Ellington to Landesberg (Flushing, NY) to a ton of north Jersey guys.

I suspect that there aren't many inner city kids who meet the academic requirements they need. Plus, the great majority of the really good New York and Philly prospects usually get out of the city to play at prep schools.

[ncexnyc]

Flushing is part of NYC, it's located in Queens, which is one of the 5 boroughs of NYC.

[roywhite]

As for not recruiting New York or Philly kids -- well, if you are going to exclude the suburbs, then it's fair to say that NOBODY in the ACC is recruiting those two cities. At the moment, there are just two city kids on ACC rosters and both are marginal players (Malcolm Grant of Brooklyn at Miami and Sammy Zeglinski from Philly at Virginia). If you include suburbs, you get a lot -- from Henderson and Ellington to Landesberg (Flushing, NY) to a ton of north Jersey guys.

I suspect that there aren't many inner city kids who meet the academic requirements they need. Plus, the great majority of the really good New York and Philly prospects usually get out of the city to play at prep schools.

Sean Singletary is probably the best recent Philly player in the ACC, and he was quite good. But, indicative of the trend you note, he played his high school ball at prep school Penn Charter in the InterAc League.

The Philadelphia Public League, which produced players from Wilt to Gene Banks to Hank Gathers, is no longer what it was. No powers like Overbrook or West Philly of previous years.

[Tim1515]

I hate to get too hard on kids we know nothing about other then articles. Duke fans were just as hard on John Wall before Duke started recruiting him.

That said...all the news i've ever heard about Lance has been bad. He didn't even make the USA Basketball Men's U18 Team with Mason, Kelly and a handful of others even though he was widely considered the most "talented" on the team. The coaching staff didn't feel like he was a team player...even though they really could've used his athletic ability on the wing.

There are also many people who believe he will end up playing in Europe. Not to mention he will almost require 30 minutes as a guarantee from any coach who is recruiting him.

[BlueintheFace]

The reason is very very simple- The best basketball programs are in the suburbs... or at least, outside the major cities. Coaches, especially K, like to recruit kids from winning high school programs. Ipso facto, therefore, ere go, you have your answer.

The entourage factor plays a large role at times too.

[Kedsy]

Other recent recruits from the Philadelphia area include Lee Melchionni (Germantown Academy) and Kobe Bryant (Lower Merion HS; well, he said he would have gone to Duke:) ).

Brian Zoubek (Haddonfield, NJ) is from the Philadelphia area as well, although obviously not within the city limits.

Episcopal Academy (in Merion), while not an urban campus, is an easy walk to the Philadelphia city line. I've never measured it, but it but it appears to be less than half a mile from there to "inside" the city. I can't imagine K would have recruited differently if the school were located half a mile down the road.

[Franzez]

So since Lance is available and Gerald has moved on.

Do we take a chance on Lance?

I've become a fan of his BornReadytv series and he seems like a goofy likeable guy that is dedicated to basketball, not sure why people are putting him in a category like he is a violent criminal.

He liked us previously, we were recruiting others so we didnt recruit much if any, nobody else is available, and he is available.

Coach K molds young men for the future, Lance could use a strong mentor like Coach K and Nate James to prepare him for the future.

We could always play a Wait & See situation with Lance and offer a scholarship if he improves his grades like we were doing with John Wall.

For those who don't know, Lance Stephenson is one of the most physically dominating SG's I've ever seen in High School or AAU basketball.

We've always recruited New York well from Laettner to Brand to Paulus and others who have been great for us.

[verga]

Stephenson, the times i've seen him, has been upset with the ref's, upset with his teammates and upset with his coaches. He is highly skilled but not worth the effort because he's a high maintenance player. He's going to be a great player but other things are needed to fit in a program like Duke. If i had a guess, it would be, Duke will pass on Stephenson.

[speedevil2001]

I have never heard his name mentioned at all as a possible recruit. Is Coach K recruiting him, and if not why not ? He is a premier back court player currently playing for Lincoln High School in Brooklyn.

For some reason, I never hear that Coach K recruits in NYC...in New Jersey yes, but not in NYC..any reason why not? The last recruit that came out of NYC was Andre Sweet, who transferred.

While I am thinking about it, I never hear that he is recruiting in Philadelphia either.

I understand that there are academic requirements that have to be met, but I am sure that in all these years there had to be top recruits in NYC and Philadelphia who could have met the academic requirements to play basketball at Duke.

maybe he isnt interested in going to duke....plus coach k is busy recruiting john wall

[sagegrouse]

I have never heard his name mentioned at all as a possible recruit. Is Coach K recruiting him, and if not why not ? He is a premier back court player currently playing for Lincoln High School in Brooklyn.

For some reason, I never hear that Coach K recruits in NYC...in New Jersey yes, but not in NYC..any reason why not? The last recruit that came out of NYC was Andre Sweet, who transferred.

While I am thinking about it, I never hear that he is recruiting in Philadelphia either.

I understand that there are academic requirements that have to be met, but I am sure that in all these years there had to be top recruits in NYC and Philadelphia who could have met the academic requirements to play basketball at Duke.

The projected Duke roster for 2009-2010 has four players who attended public schools: Glenbrook North, IL; Haddonfield Memorial, NJ; Reno, NV; and South Medford, OR. The rest were in private schools.

Basketball is no longer a cottage industry. For elite players, it is an organized market, where talent is often IDed by age 11-12, and the best players have numerous opportunities to go to prep schools. So, if we are asking why Duke does not recruit in inner city NY or Philadelphia, the answer is that Duke recruits better players. It is kinda like asking why Duke doesn't recruit players on the playground (the top players play in gyms).

Duke has recruited big city players from public schools, but it is the exception these days. Two recent examples were Sean Dockery (Chicago) and Jamal Boykin (LA).

sagegrouse

[NYDukie]

So since Lance is available and Gerald has moved on.

Do we take a chance on Lance?

I've become a fan of his BornReadytv series and he seems like a goofy likeable guy that is dedicated to basketball, not sure why people are putting him in a category like he is a violent criminal.

He liked us previously, we were recruiting others so we didnt recruit much if any, nobody else is available, and he is available.

Coach K molds young men for the future, Lance could use a strong mentor like Coach K and Nate James to prepare him for the future.

We could always play a Wait & See situation with Lance and offer a scholarship if he improves his grades like we were doing with John Wall.

For those who don't know, Lance Stephenson is one of the most physically dominating SG's I've ever seen in High School or AAU basketball.

We've always recruited New York well from Laettner to Brand to Paulus and others who have been great for us.

Not sure if you're from the NYC metro area but if you were or for those that are, you would be familar with the circus like atmoshpere that surrounds Lance. Similar to his fellow alumni of Lincoln H.S. in Brooklyn, Marbury and Telfair, there comes a sense of entitlement from each, large entourages and those close to him that want to get on the gravy train. If you think having Wall would be somewhat problematic, then you have no idea with Stephonson. Just the fact that St. John's hasn't pushed terribly hard at the end should say something in itself. I know Stephenson supposedly eliminated them but the Johnnies effort, though very good, seemed not to the level that you would think given the program's desperation and that the coaches success has been minimal and he essentially has one last season to deliver some progress. Kansus dumped him the minute Xavier Henry decommited from Memphis. They are both similar players, Xavier slightly rated higher within the top 10 by a few slots but why walk away from a player who've you recruited to the end? Even some at Zona and Memphis, one of which seem to be Stephenson's landing spot, seem to have some reservations. So given those circumstances, it is no surprise that Duke hasn't even come close to recruiting him unless some in the know obviously know something. Maybe Duke kicked the tires at the onset of his recruitment a year or two ago but afterward knew better not to.

[ncexnyc]

I seem to recall hearing this kid was being chased by Maryland. Considering how willing Gary Williams is to take anyone into his program, I'm surprised we haven't heard anything further about Maryland looking to land this kid.

[Franzez]

I seem to recall hearing this kid was being chased by Maryland. Considering how willing Gary Williams is to take anyone into his program, I'm surprised we haven't heard anything further about Maryland looking to land this kid.
Because Lance dropped them from his list, Maryland was added due to James Padgett his friend/teammate going there next season and because of a potential Under Armour sponsorship.

[Franzez]

Not sure if you're from the NYC metro area but if you were or for those that are, you would be familar with the circus like atmoshpere that surrounds Lance. Similar to his fellow alumni of Lincoln H.S. in Brooklyn, Marbury and Telfair, there comes a sense of entitlement from each, large entourages and those close to him that want to get on the gravy train.
I dont think any of his entourage will be allowed at Duke, but Telfair didn't go to college and Marbury like Stephenson had to leave the entourage back at home to succeed in college at Georgia Tech.
Stephenson will and has to do the same thing.



If you think having Wall would be somewhat problematic, then you have no idea with Stephonson. Just the fact that St. John's hasn't pushed terribly hard at the end should say something in itself. I know Stephenson supposedly eliminated them but the Johnnies effort, though very good, seemed not to the level that you would think given the program's desperation and that the coaches success has been minimal and he essentially has one last season to deliver some progress.
Wall wouldnt be a problem in my opinion.

St.Johns recruited Lance as hard as possible but Norm Roberts just doesnt impress as a HC.

[Franzez]

Kansus dumped him the minute Xavier Henry decommited from Memphis. They are both similar players, Xavier slightly rated higher within the top 10 by a few slots but why walk away from a player who've you recruited to the end? Even some at Zona and Memphis, one of which seem to be Stephenson's landing spot, seem to have some reservations. So given those circumstances, it is no surprise that Duke hasn't even come close to recruiting him unless some in the know obviously know something. Maybe Duke kicked the tires at the onset of his recruitment a year or two ago but afterward knew better not to.
Kansas was always after Xavier Henry, from birth almost because his father Carl is a former basketball player there and genorously funds the school, and both his mother & aunt are former Kansas womens basketball players.

Kansas didn't exactly dump Lance, Lance could have gone to Kansas if he wanted to but they dont have the room to take him in with CJ Henry being on scholarship and not having anyone defect to the NBA early which they previously expected.

I dont think Duke is recruiting Lance, but if we did I think we could land him.

It would definetly be a break from the perception of Duke basketball bringing in a kid from the hood in Coney Island who plays a street style of basketball instead of futhuring the perception that we only recruit soft private school kids that can only shoot 3's.

[FireOgilvie]

Kansas was always after Xavier Henry, from birth almost because his father Carl is a former basketball player there and genorously funds the school, and both his mother & aunt are former Kansas womens basketball players.

Kansas didn't exactly dump Lance, Lance could have gone to Kansas if he wanted to but they dont have the room to take him in with CJ Henry being on scholarship and not having anyone defect to the NBA early which they previously expected.

I dont think Duke is recruiting Lance, but if we did I think we could land him.

It would definetly be a break from the perception of Duke basketball bringing in a kid from the hood in Coney Island who plays a street style of basketball instead of futhuring the perception that we only recruit soft private school kids that can only shoot 3's.

I'm pretty sure you're the only one that thinks this is a good idea. Obviously the coaches disagree with you as well. We already have 3 shooting guards, we don't need another one. Why would we take a guy who is described by almost everyone as "selfish," has a terrible reputation, is going to leave after one year, for a position we already have filled? Duke is not recruiting him, it's a non-issue. We are going after John Wall, who does not fit the supposed perception you mentioned. Let's close this thread... or maybe we can have a thread for every player we aren't recruiting and has shown zero interest in Duke.

[Franzez]

I'm pretty sure you're the only one that thinks this is a good idea. Obviously the coaches disagree with you as well. We already have 3 shooting guards, we don't need another one. Why would we take a guy who is described by almost everyone as "selfish," has a terrible reputation, is going to leave after one year, for a position we already have filled? Duke is not recruiting him, it's a non-issue. We are going after John Wall, who does not fit the supposed perception you mentioned. Let's close this thread... or maybe we can have a thread for every player we aren't recruiting and has shown zero interest in Duke.
I dont know where you have been but Lance was interested in Duke, it was on his recruiting list for 4 years, up until maybe August of 2008.

On the topic of that, Lance is an elite talent player who although will be here for 1 year can do a lot, just like Wall could for us.

Im not really sure who else you have at SG but all we have is Scheyer with both Smith & Williams being able to play some minutes at SG when they aren't playing PG.
Lance is capable of playing both guard positions and his size would allow him to play some 3Guard if needed.

So explain to me how we couldn't use Lance.:)

[NYDukie]

Kansas was always after Xavier Henry, from birth almost because his father Carl is a former basketball player there and genorously funds the school, and both his mother & aunt are former Kansas womens basketball players.

Kansas didn't exactly dump Lance, Lance could have gone to Kansas if he wanted to but they dont have the room to take him in with CJ Henry being on scholarship and not having anyone defect to the NBA early which they previously expected.

I dont think Duke is recruiting Lance, but if we did I think we could land him.

It would definetly be a break from the perception of Duke basketball bringing in a kid from the hood in Coney Island who plays a street style of basketball instead of futhuring the perception that we only recruit soft private school kids that can only shoot 3's.

I agree w/ your prior post that Wall wouldn't be the potential problem that Stephenson would be.

However, even though Roberts recruited Stephenson hard, once Stephenson was not a St. John's lean he backed off immensly rather than intensify the recruitment given no leader. And given that the there was a lot of fallout from the Jarvis regime, there was some that felt Stephenson wasn't worth the one year problem as St. John's has become more image conscious. Even with Robert's coaching shortcomings, he has represented them well and has supporters in high places to offset those against him, at least for another year. As for Kansas, KU had the spot for Lance but he didn't commit and once Henry was free from his Memphis commit, they refocused on him as priority over Stephenson as the Henry's had a relationship with KU program. It wasn't spelled out but if you read between the lines how else is anyone to intepret KU going from Stephenson to Henry? Even now, reports out of Arizona has the Stephenson camp pushing for a visit (Stephenson is friends w/ fellow Zona recruit Parrom) but Sean Miller is doing the smart thing and apparently not opening the door b/c Stephenson will be looking to be the "me" guy on the team, focusing soley on the NBA while not wanting to deal with his handlers. I have no issue with Duke trying to recruit kids from the inner-cities but Stephenson is not the one you want!

[NYDukie]

Let's close this thread... or maybe we can have a thread for every player we aren't recruiting and has shown zero interest in Duke.

Amen to that!!!

[FireOgilvie]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/11735696

"In other words, Lance Stephenson is like a supermodel with herpes."

[Memphis Devil]

Maybe we could land Renardo Sydney as well?! ;)

Gary Parrish has a local radio show here and talks about Stephenson often (more often as of late). He is constantly saying that several coaches have told him that Stephenson, much like Sydney, is a potential program killer. While I don't know what the reason is (most likely agents, runners, $, etc.), there is a reason that this top-10 recruit and McD AA has top teams keeping their distance.

[Franzez]

Maybe we could land Renardo Sydney as well?! ;)

Gary Parrish has a local radio show here and talks about Stephenson often (more often as of late). He is constantly saying that several coaches have told him that Stephenson, much like Sydney, is a potential program killer. While I don't know what the reason is (most likely agents, runners, $, etc.), there is a reason that this top-10 recruit and McD AA has top teams keeping their distance.
And that is Lance's fault for doing so, he waited way too long to make his decison while most schools filled out their recruiting class months ago.

If Lance commited early on he would have had his choice of schools to go to, he failed to pull the trigger early on and the schools have moved on so its not that schools dont want to touch him, its just they already filled their need at the SG/SF position and didnt want to sit around hoping for Lance to commit to their program for months when they could land maybe a not as good of a player as Lance, but a recruit who wants to come there and will sign his LOI after commiting.

Wall still has suitors right now, but in reality the only schools still recruiting him are Kentucky,Duke,Florida,Memphis,Miami,and NC State.Whichever school gets Wall won the lottery basically but for the school who doesn't get him they wasted time chasing him instead of recruiting a much more realistic target months ago and now may have to look at bringing in a Juco recruit to fill their need at the position.


This is why I think Duke is perfect for him because there is are few temptations from outside agents at Duke, throughout Coach K's tenure at Duke he has been able to keep agents,boosters and other negative aspects of the sport away from his program and has run the cleanest program in college basketball.There is no way that Coach K or any of our assistants or players or others involved will knowingly allow Stephenson to bring those negative aspects around this program for 1 year.

There is not a coach or a program in the country better capable of handling a somewhat "troubled" player like Lance Stephenson than Coach K and Duke.

And for those claiming he would be selfish, I would much rather have a player capable of leading us and emerging as the star for this team than another 3 pt shooting role player who can't create his own shot.

[Franzez]

I agree w/ your prior post that Wall wouldn't be the potential problem that Stephenson would be.
I dont see where the potential problem would come from.
He would be away from NYC at Duke where none of his "entourage" would have access to him unless they are smart enough to attend Duke.

We take him out of the ghetto environment and place him at Duke around strong leaders,inteligent men & women, and other great players which can only help him for the better.



However, even though Roberts recruited Stephenson hard, once Stephenson was not a St. John's lean he backed off immensly rather than intensify the recruitment given no leader. And given that the there was a lot of fallout from the Jarvis regime, there was some that felt Stephenson wasn't worth the one year problem as St. John's has become more image conscious. Even with Robert's coaching shortcomings, he has represented them well and has supporters in high places to offset those against him, at least for another year.
St.Johns doesn't waste their time recruiting players who aren't interested, they struggle so much in recruiting that they can't spend months trying to sway a recruit even if he is from NYC to be interested in their program.
They have much more realistic targets who they focus their attention on instead.



As for Kansas, KU had the spot for Lance but he didn't commit and once Henry was free from his Memphis commit, they refocused on him as priority over Stephenson as the Henry's had a relationship with KU program. It wasn't spelled out but if you read between the lines how else is anyone to intepret KU going from Stephenson to Henry?
Kansas wanted Xavier Henry from the beginning, their recruitment of Lance picked up after Xavier commited to Memphis, and after Xavier decommited they knew for sure that Henry would come to Kansas instead of continuing with a long drawn out recruitment of Lance.

Another difference is that Xavier projects as a 1-2 year player, while Lance is going for just 1 year and they would have to replace him in 2010.



Even now, reports out of Arizona has the Stephenson camp pushing for a visit (Stephenson is friends w/ fellow Zona recruit Parrom) but Sean Miller is doing the smart thing and apparently not opening the door b/c Stephenson will be looking to be the "me" guy on the team, focusing soley on the NBA while not wanting to deal with his handlers. I have no issue with Duke trying to recruit kids from the inner-cities but Stephenson is not the one you want!
Nobody is sure exactly what Arizona is doing with Lance's recruitment, Book Richardson & Kevin Parrom are swaying for him to come to Arizona while others claim that Arizona isnt actively recruiting him.

I agree that he is a risk from how he has shown immaturity throughout his HS career but the thing about this situation is that he can either be a huge positive for us next season and a major recruiting tool for future years or be a huge mistake, but the thing is its for 1 year not 4 years.

[sagegrouse]

This is why I think Duke is perfect for him because there is are few temptations from outside agents at Duke, throughout Coach K's tenure at Duke he has been able to keep agents,boosters and other negative aspects of the sport away from his program and has run the cleanest program in college basketball.There is no way that Coach K or any of our assistants or players or others involved will knowingly allow Stephenson to bring those negative aspects around this program for 1 year.

There is not a coach or a program in the country better capable of handling a somewhat "troubled" player like Lance Stephenson than Coach K and Duke.



Good coaching can't overcome bad character, which is what Stephenson seems to represent. And a hallmark of Coach K is his selection of great basketball players who are also outstanding people. Duke players are stand-up folks and the locker-room mood is intense but positive. Stephenson would be a huge risk: if the energy of the program and the upperclassmen is going into fixing a serious behavioral and character problem, it is hard to see how the basketball program would not suffer.

sagegrouse

[Franzez]

Good coaching can't overcome bad character, which is what Stephenson seems to represent. And a hallmark of Coach K is his selection of great basketball players who are also outstanding people. Duke players are stand-up folks and the locker-room mood is intense but positive. Stephenson would be a huge risk: if the energy of the program and the upperclassmen is going into fixing a serious behavioral and character problem, it is hard to see how the basketball program would not suffer.

sagegrouse
I just honestly think that Stephenson needs to be around such great leaders,inteligent men & women, and the great players we have on this team for him to mature as a person and better himself for the future.

1 year on a Duke campus around such great people will have an ever lasting effect on him as a person and as a player, whether he shows signs early on is irrelevant but over time you'll see the impact it made on him.

This situation reminds me of Iverson & John Thompson, Iverson was a young man like Stephenson in need of a change of scenery and various strong role models to help give him the guidance he didn't receive growing up and the impact this had on him has shown profoundly as hes gotten older.

Although chances are small of us even calling Lance, a recruit similar to Lance Stephenson would be the most telling of Coach K's abilities as a leader and mentor to players by developing the character of a troubled young man who had none before encountering Coach K into a young man capable of leading and mentoring others.

[oldnavy]

I agree with Sagegrouse, why would you take a chance on a player that plays a role you already have filled? We simply do not need what he has to offer, and if we did I don't think we should lower the standards. Duke basketball does not need to become a social engineering experiment. If Stephenson needs mentoring, let him find it somewhere else. Why disrupt a good thing trying to "fix" him, when he will be done in a year?

[ncexnyc]

I agree with Sagegrouse, why would you take a chance on a player that plays a role you already have filled? We simply do not need what he has to offer, and if we did I don't think we should lower the standards. Duke basketball does not need to become a social engineering experiment. If Stephenson needs mentoring, let him find it somewhere else. Why disrupt a good thing trying to "fix" him, when he will be done in a year?
Last time I checked we only had Jon, Nolan, and Elliot as our guards for next year. That seems like a really thin position to me and I'd hate to chance going into a season with only that many players at such a crucial position.

When you factor in the uncertainty we face on the front line, adding some quality depth in the backcourt sounds pretty wise to me. Yeah, I know we are still in the hunt for John Wall, but we've already seen Bledsoe slip through our hands, as the old saying goes, a bird in the hand, is worth two in the bush.

I've read the various stories about this kid and I understand that he sounds like he has attitude issues, but who better than Coach K, to break him and mold him into the quality player he can be?

[Franzez]

Last time I checked we only had Jon, Nolan, and Elliot as our guards for next year. That seems like a really thin position to me and I'd hate to chance going into a season with only that many players at such a crucial position.

When you factor in the uncertainty we face on the front line, adding some quality depth in the backcourt sounds pretty wise to me. Yeah, I know we are still in the hunt for John Wall, but we've already seen Bledsoe slip through our hands, as the old saying goes, a bird in the hand, is worth two in the bush.

I've read the various stories about this kid and I understand that he sounds like he has attitude issues, but who better than Coach K, to break him and mold him into the quality player he can be?
I agree.

We cant head into next season with only Jon,Nolan,and Elliot in the backcourt, 2010 is fine with the additions of Curry & Dawkins.

[Channing]

arent there concerns that Stephenson could bring an investigation with him? I dont care how thin we are next year, it isnt worth inviting the scrutiny, especially with, as Duke, the rest of the world waiting and praying for us to slip up somehow.

[Franzez]

arent there concerns that Stephenson could bring an investigation with him? I dont care how thin we are next year, it isnt worth inviting the scrutiny, especially with, as Duke, the rest of the world waiting and praying for us to slip up somehow.
What scrutiny would there be?

Lance should drop at least 17 PPG next season for any school he goes to

[Chicago 1995]

What scrutiny would there be?

There is widespread concern that Lance's eligibility may have been compromised at some point in the past related to his recruitment to certain AAU teams.

I'd note that while I agree that we're in a very bad position in the backcourt, and we need more than three guards on the roster, I want nothing to do with Lance Stephenson. Nothing.

There are enough schools that often times take chances on kids like Lance that won't touch him that a giant red flag is waiving as to his recruitment. There's also the fact that it's really hard to be selfish in an all-star game, and Lance Stephenson was horrifically selfish in the McDs game. Embarassingly so.

I don't disagree that we needed to be recruiting a guard in addition to John Wall, but Lance Stephenson's not that player. I'm not the biggest supporter of our recruiting the last five years, and I've not been shy about it, but this is one decision I support fully.

[NYDukie]

I don't understand the infactuation of some with Stephenson given all the red-flags mentioned in various media circles and here on the board. Yes some schools have filled their scholarship limits but there are many top programs that have an available scholarship and haven't gone after him. Why hasn't UNC, Florida and UK gotten involved to hedge against not getting Wall or just getting a plain top 10 talent has some have suggested?

I apologize in dumbing this thread down but I almost feel that I have to in order to get not only my point but that of many others accross. I will use this kind of analogy in the Stephenson recruitment as he reminds me of that hot girl back in college or from the local bar/club that everyone drools over, whom has made the "rounds" but which many say that she may be "dirty". Just now though, she happens to come your way, to the nice, good looking guy with everything going your way and wants to hook up with you. As much as you are tempted, you also wonder? Is it worth to go all the way or not? If you do, many of your friends may give you high fives but then later on you might just find out that she actually was "dirty" and you get either a "death sentence" or a "doctor's note" saying you're out of the game for a while.

Now I ask, do you want Duke to take that chance? I wouldn't and don't want Duke to. The risk does not outweigh the reward at all!!!

[Franzez]

There is widespread concern that Lance's eligibility may have been compromised at some point in the past related to his recruitment to certain AAU teams.

I'd note that while I agree that we're in a very bad position in the backcourt, and we need more than three guards on the roster, I want nothing to do with Lance Stephenson. Nothing.

There are enough schools that often times take chances on kids like Lance that won't touch him that a giant red flag is waiving as to his recruitment. There's also the fact that it's really hard to be selfish in an all-star game, and Lance Stephenson was horrifically selfish in the McDs game. Embarassingly so.

I don't disagree that we needed to be recruiting a guard in addition to John Wall, but Lance Stephenson's not that player. I'm not the biggest supporter of our recruiting the last five years, and I've not been shy about it, but this is one decision I support fully.
You're judging a player off of the McDonalds All American Game?:D

I dont know what schools you are talking about, every school that I know of showed interest in Lance at some point but by him waiting so long the interest from other schools generally decreased.

The eligibility concerns will be ironed out this summer, if hes not eligible it wouldnt hurt our program because he hadnt played a game yet.

[Franzez]

I don't understand the infactuation of some with Stephenson given all the red-flags mentioned in various media circles and here on the board. Yes some schools have filled their scholarship limits but there are many top programs that have an available scholarship and haven't gone after him. Why hasn't UNC, Florida and UK gotten involved to hedge against not getting Wall or just getting a plain top 10 talent has some have suggested?
UNC had no need to get involved because they landed Leslie McDonald, hes not a better player than Lance but he'll stick around longer and fit a role on the team.
Florida has Boynton.
Kentucky has Meeks, if Meeks remains in the draft, I am certain they will show interest in Stephenson to fill the void left at SG.



I apologize in dumbing this thread down but I almost feel that I have to in order to get not only my point but that of many others accross. I will use this kind of analogy in the Stephenson recruitment as he reminds me of that hot girl back in college or from the local bar/club that everyone drools over, whom has made the "rounds" but which many say that she may be "dirty". Just now though, she happens to come your way, to the nice, good looking guy with everything going your way and wants to hook up with you. As much as you are tempted, you also wonder? Is it worth to go all the way or not? If you do, many of your friends may give you high fives but then later on you might just find out that she actually was "dirty" and you get either a "death sentence" or a "doctor's note" saying you're out of the game for a while.
Good analogy.



Now I ask, do you want Duke to take that chance? I wouldn't and don't want Duke to. The risk does not outweigh the reward at all!!!
Yes, if he is eligible.

If the NCAA rules that he forfeits his eligibility due to potential involvement due to his AAU or Bornreadytv website, there was no risk and no reward because he never played a game for our team.

The risk does outweigh the reward because you are talking about a top 5 player nationally in the 2009 recruiting class who fills a need for our program at SG and is a natural scorer, his addition makes us a favorite for the National Championship, let alone the ACC Championship.


At the Tournament of Champions, Stephenson listed Duke, North Carolina, Ohio State, Texas, Florida, Arizona and Kansas as a few schools of interest.
That was back in 2007.

[roywhite]

The risk does outweigh the reward because you are talking about a top 5 player nationally in the 2009 recruiting class who fills a need for our program at SG and is a natural scorer, his addition makes us a favorite for the National Championship, let alone the ACC Championship.


No offense to young Mr. Stephenson...I hope he finds a home, but it won't be Duke.

I don't say this as an insider, just a reasonably observant fan who has followed recruiting and followed Coach K for 30 years. A decision was made sometime ago not to recruit Stephenson, and a thin backcourt rotation for next season will not change that.

Ain't gonna happen.

[Chicago 1995]

You're judging a player off of the McDonalds All American Game?:D

Not solely no. But combined with everything else I've read and heard and seen of Lance Stephenson on other occassions, it didn't do him any favors. He was remarkably selfish in the real HS game of his I watched, and to look that selfish in an all-star game -- where the point is to be selfish -- is a testament to how little you are looking to involve others.


I dont know what schools you are talking about, every school that I know of showed interest in Lance at some point but by him waiting so long the interest from other schools generally decreased.

I think you are being very, very charitable to Lance taking this view of what's happened in his recruitment. Maryland and St. John's for example, have no reason to pull back from Lance. They need a player of his caliber, and have room for him. And they are running from Lance. That doesn't scare you?


The eligibility concerns will be ironed out this summer, if hes not eligible it wouldnt hurt our program because he hadnt played a game yet.

That's not supported by history as to such problems. The whole Myron Piggie thing wasn't ironed out before Corey Maggette played a full season at Duke. More recently, OJ Mayo's issues, despite being as well known as Stephenson's, weren't brought to the forefront until after Mayo had played his year at SC. Whoever takes Stephenson is inviting trouble, because there is no guarantee the answer as to his eligibility will be reached definitively before things tip next season. None.

We need more than three guards. I'm frustrated that we weren't recruiting someone alongside Boynton all along. I'm frustrated that we weren't in on Wall earlier. I'm frustrated that we only gave Darius Smith a cursory look. I'm much more pessimistic about next year's team than most here, because I'm not sold on Kelly or Plumlee II's contributing next year, and I think we're going to struggle defensively with Kyle at the 3.

And I want nothing to do with Lance Stephenson. Nothing. He's selfish and disinterested in defense. He's exactly the opposite of the type of kid who is going to work at Duke. Why would we think K would put up with a kid like Stephenson on the court?

I don't know if it is baiting for the sake of baiting, or the basketball equivalent of the most popular guy in town being the back up QB, but Lance won't help Duke. We'll be as good with him next year as without, and we won't have to worry about the NCAA banging on our door.

[Franzez]

No offense to young Mr. Stephenson...I hope he finds a home, but it won't be Duke.

I don't say this as an insider, just a reasonably observant fan who has followed recruiting and followed Coach K for 30 years. A decision was made sometime ago not to recruit Stephenson, and a thin backcourt rotation for next season will not change that.

Ain't gonna happen.
True.

But you can never say never considering we hopped in the Wall recruitment later on after losing out on Boynton, and then proceeded to hop in the Eric Bledsoe recruitment a few months ago.

[oldnavy]

So, because we need his skill set, we should ignore the collaterall damage that is quite likely to come? That is not how I see Duke basketball.

[Franzez]

Not solely no. But combined with everything else I've read and heard and seen of Lance Stephenson on other occassions, it didn't do him any favors. He was remarkably selfish in the real HS game of his I watched, and to look that selfish in an all-star game -- where the point is to be selfish -- is a testament to how little you are looking to involve others.
I've watched and attended 7 of Lance's HS & AAU games and honestly thats just what you are going to get with Stephenson, hes not going to ever be a SG that passes up his shot but he is capable of passing the ball to the open man and not hotdogging it up the court.
You also have to take into account he hasn't played in an actual developed offensive set ever in his HS career or AAU career, its always been revolve the offense around Lance and give him the green light to shoot it as much as he wants.

At Duke it would be different and Lance will have to adapt no matter what because a NBA team wont just be handed to him for him to play like he did in High School.




I think you are being very, very charitable to Lance taking this view of what's happened in his recruitment. Maryland and St. John's for example, have no reason to pull back from Lance. They need a player of his caliber, and have room for him. And they are running from Lance. That doesn't scare you?
Lance eliminated both, neither school pulled back nor ran from him, Lance pulled back from both schools and then eliminated them from his list according to Zagoria.




That's not supported by history as to such problems. The whole Myron Piggie thing wasn't ironed out before Corey Maggette played a full season at Duke. More recently, OJ Mayo's issues, despite being as well known as Stephenson's, weren't brought to the forefront until after Mayo had played his year at SC. Whoever takes Stephenson is inviting trouble, because there is no guarantee the answer as to his eligibility will be reached definitively before things tip next season. None.
Stephenson still will have to get past the NCAA clearinghouse like Mayo did and that will be one of the things examined before they make a ruling on his eligibility.



We need more than three guards. I'm frustrated that we weren't recruiting someone alongside Boynton all along. I'm frustrated that we weren't in on Wall earlier. I'm frustrated that we only gave Darius Smith a cursory look. I'm much more pessimistic about next year's team than most here, because I'm not sold on Kelly or Plumlee II's contributing next year, and I think we're going to struggle defensively with Kyle at the 3.
OK. I agree with the recruiting other Guard's part but I think Kyle Singler is a natural 3 and creates mismatches at the position instead of being outmatched,outsized at the 4.



And I want nothing to do with Lance Stephenson. Nothing. He's selfish and disinterested in defense. He's exactly the opposite of the type of kid who is going to work at Duke. Why would we think K would put up with a kid like Stephenson on the court?
You ask Why?

Because Lance is an immensely talented player, thats why.

If Lance were some run of the mill recruit who couldn't do anything on the court but shoot 3's I see no reason for Coach K putting up with it, but its interesting how the views differ from Wall and Stephenson among Duke fans.

If Lance is selfish, fine, he can be selfish as long as hes making his shots and contributing in a W.We've been in need of a legit #1 scoring option since Redick, and Lance would be that if he came to Duke.



I don't know if it is baiting for the sake of baiting, or the basketball equivalent of the most popular guy in town being the back up QB, but Lance won't help Duke. We'll be as good with him next year as without, and we won't have to worry about the NCAA banging on our door.
I think we will be good next year even without Lance but with Gerald gone along with Paulus we have the potential to be better next season by offsetting the loss of both with an immensely talented star player coming into the fold.

[Franzez]

So, because we need his skill set, we should ignore the collaterall damage that is quite likely to come? That is not how I see Duke basketball.
Im sorry but what collaterall damage is there that wont be ironed out before he even put on his Duke practice gear.

[Memphis Devil]

That's not supported by history as to such problems. The whole Myron Piggie thing wasn't ironed out before Corey Maggette played a full season at Duke. More recently, OJ Mayo's issues, despite being as well known as Stephenson's, weren't brought to the forefront until after Mayo had played his year at SC. Whoever takes Stephenson is inviting trouble, because there is no guarantee the answer as to his eligibility will be reached definitively before things tip next season. None.

Not to mention the fact that it would not suprise me that some investigative journalist make Stephenson his top priority just because he signs with Duke. Do you think it was coincidence that the UConn story broke right before the Final Four? I would suspect that nothing would immediately be known, as far as NCAA infractions are concerned, until Duke enters the post-season putting the entire year at risk. Obviously, if he can't become academically eligible, he never suits up.

Without Stephenson I think we are a Sweet Sixteen team that could contend for a NC with the right development and contribution from MP2 & Kelly. With Stephenson we are a NC contender if he can co-exist with an unselfish junior/senior lead team and we get the right development and contribution from MP2 & Kelly.

[johnb]

Between Jon, Nolan, and Elliot, we have 3 top flight talents in the back court. If someone else shows up, great. If not, they'll be terrific.

[Chicago 1995]

Im sorry but what collaterall damage is there that wont be ironed out before he even put on his Duke practice gear.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4162444

These problems don't get ironed out before a kid plays. Stephenson passing the clearinghouse means nothing as to potential actions taken while Stephenson was in high school that may have thrown his eligibility by the wayside.

It is very possible, if not likely, that allegations of wrongdoing won't come to light until *after* Stephenson's played at whatever college he plays at. Why would Duke want to subject themselves to that risk?

He's a big risk from this perspective. He's also a kid that doesn't fit with our system and what our coach looks for. Why would we run that risk for a kid that's not going to be happy, and I'd wager that his shot selection and disinterest in defense are going to get him a nearly permanent seat on the bench in Durham?

I'd have your back if we were having this discussion about why we should have recruited Darius Smith harder. I'd agree if you were arguing we should have been in on John Wall a year ago. But this doesn't make one ounce of sense. Not one bit. The kid wouldn't be close to a fit at Duke even if he wasn't an NCAA investigation waiting to happen.

[ncexnyc]

Between Jon, Nolan, and Elliot, we have 3 top flight talents in the back court. If someone else shows up, great. If not, they'll be terrific.

I don't believe anyone here has questioned the talent of Jon, Nolan, or Elliot, however 3 guards just isn't going to cut it.

Somewhere during the season we'll run into some foul trouble or a player will get dinged up for a game or two, it happens every year.

And if you're banking on Kelly and MP2 to step into the line-up immediately, well while I hope you're right the odds as well as history are against that.

Next year's team is going to be dependent on Kyle, Jon, Nolan, and Elliot. You can hope and pray that Lance, Brian, and MP1 can give us a nice boost, but unless you know something the rest of us don't then I wouldn't count on it.

[oldnavy]

Im sorry but what collaterall damage is there that wont be ironed out before he even put on his Duke practice gear.

That's exactly the problem. You have no way of knowing what is coming along with him. The types of problems that are likely to occur with a bad egg have an incubation period of several years as pointed out by others. Some folks seem to think that he will step in and immediately become an impact player. I doubt that he will. How many pure shooting guards have stood out as freshmen in the ACC? Besides, I do not think that we are going to be hurting for scorer's next year even with Gerald not returning. Now having a point guard that can push tempo is a whole different discussion. Having said that I would still take a pass on Stephenson if he were an outstanding PG. Risk vs. Reward... too much of the former to justify offering him IMHO.

[Franzez]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4162444

These problems don't get ironed out before a kid plays. Stephenson passing the clearinghouse means nothing as to potential actions taken while Stephenson was in high school that may have thrown his eligibility by the wayside.

It is very possible, if not likely, that allegations of wrongdoing won't come to light until *after* Stephenson's played at whatever college he plays at. Why would Duke want to subject themselves to that risk?

So you're comparing Lance Stephenson's situation to OJ Mayo's?:rolleyes:



Louis Johnson, the former associate of Mayo's, told the Web site that Rodney Guillory told him that Floyd had given Guillory "a grand." Johnson said he was able to view $100 bills inside an envelope Guillory had.

Last year on ESPN's "Outside the Lines," Johnson accused Guillory of providing Mayo with improper benefits while the guard played for USC.
Johnson said the payment occurred in 2007. Johnson was not present for the actual exchange, but Guillory reportedly told him that they were meeting Floyd to receive money that they could spend at All-Star Weekend in Las Vegas. Johnson saw Guillory meet Floyd outside a cafe, and they drove around the block.

When Johnson picked up Guillory 15 minutes later, he was shown the envelope containing money.

I dont see at any point Coach K needing to pay Lance to come to Duke, but as far as I know Lance's father wouldn't allow anything to jeopardize his son's college eligibility because they have already definitively ruled out Europe.

Mayo on the other hand has had handlers throughout his amateur career, we're talking about a kid who along with Bill Walker were taken on the road and shuffled around since 7th grade through 3 states for school and across the country for AAU games and the perception throughout was that both would go pro after HS until the 1 year rule came and slapped both down.

Walker was set to go to Cincinatti, but continued and followed Huggins to Kansas State.

Mayo on the other hand did exactly what the story suggests by wanting coaches/boosters to bid for his services as a recruit.


Back to Lance:

Nobody is 100% sure whether not there will or wont be any type of investigation, its been nothing but rumors that have been assumed for a few years due to his relationship with famous people due to him playing streetball in the summer.

Im not sure what the other poster means by claiming he doesn't fit Duke's offense, Lance has a good outside shot and he attacks the basket well and can create his own shot which is something only Gerald showed the ability to do last season.Im not sure where your perception of him having no interest in defense comes from, from what I've seen of Lance he is a very good defender with developed footwork defensively but it can improve once he gets coaching in college.

But once again this comes from a bias towards Wall because we are actively recruiting him, Wall has more of a questionable shot selection than Lance,by going through periods of heat checks and has shown interest in making a steal rather than playing man defense and hes doing this as a PG, something that Coach K rarely looks for when recruiting that position.


We still need depth at the Guard position for this upcoming season, if you can find a recruit who makes more since than Lance or Wall due to them coming to Duke for a year please inform me.

[Franzez]

That's exactly the problem. You have no way of knowing what is coming along with him. The types of problems that are likely to occur with a bad egg have an incubation period of several years as pointed out by others. Some folks seem to think that he will step in and immediately become an impact player. I doubt that he will. How many pure shooting guards have stood out as freshmen in the ACC? Besides, I do not think that we are going to be hurting for scorer's next year even with Gerald not returning. Now having a point guard that can push tempo is a whole different discussion. Having said that I would still take a pass on Stephenson if he were an outstanding PG. Risk vs. Reward... too much of the former to justify offering him IMHO.
Question---Have you ever seen Lance Stephenson play other than Youtube highlights?

Lance isn't a pure SG, hes more of a SF than a SG due to his size and wingspan.