Jay Bilas 2009

[Son of Mojo]

I'm not trying to start an argument but is there any way we can ban Bilas from espn? Hearing what he had to say during Sportscenter (which I think I only watch to get the last few minutes of PTI but left the tv there) about the further "greatness" of the holes and how they are still worthy of having the # 1 ranking is shilling at its worst. Just really annoyed me having to hear that tonight instead of hearing how Pitt being undefeated deserves the ranking or how Wake should be ranked ahead of the evil empire.

[RainingThrees]

He's trying waaay to hard to be unbiased. I don't even listen to him anymore because he tears down Duke and raises up the holes.

[MarkD83]

Jay's comments are all part of a grand plan. Even after a loss we should keep saying how great UNC is so they continue to be overconfident so that they can play Wake, lose and go 0-2 to start the ACC season.

[dukelifer]

He's trying waaay to hard to be unbiased. I don't even listen to him anymore because he tears down Duke and raises up the holes.
You have to build 'em up because if they win- you are a guru and if they lose it all in the end- as many on this board hopes and maybe even Jay does down deep- then you can talk about how they wasted all the talent and could never win the big one etc. If you have a star team in sports- you have to build them up to create drama. It makes the upsets all that more compelling. Plus- overexposing UNC will only make folks hate them more. This is all good, IMO.

[patentgeek]

To a certain extent I agree with him. If a voter is voting based on which team he thinks is the best in the country, then I don't think it's crazy to believe that the hated Heels are indeed the best in the country. Do I dislike them enormously? Yes. Do I wish they would lose every game they play for the rest of my natural life? Absolutely. But, if the question is which team I would predict, if I could only pick one, to win the NC this year, right now (and I emphasize right now) it would be our hated rivals.

That doesn't mean that I hope with every fiber of my being that it won't happen, nor does it mean that I think they're more likely than not to win (I think yesterday's performance exposed some flaws that were already apparent but which other opponents weren't able to exploit). But I think it's certainly reasonable to believe that they have a better chance right now than anyone else.

If, on the other hand, a voter is voting based on which team's body of work thus far is the most impressive, or who has the longest winning streak, or some other criterion, then I might disagree with Jay, because I think their performance thus far has been underwhelming given all of the hype.

[BlueintheFace]

Bilas is a very intelligent analyst.

UNC is still the most talented team in the nation, and might still have the best resume so far with the way in which they have beat some very good teams (and not so good ones).

Ask every coach in the nation who they would most want to avoid in a tournament right now... my guess is that the answer would be Carolina.

My top 3 would be

1) UNC
2) Pitt
3) Duke

[Carlos]

Exactly - maybe it's not that Jay's trying to be unbiased, maybe it's that he just feels UNC is the best team in the country. You may not like his opinion but there's certainly ample reason to believe that despite last night's game the Heels are still the most talented team out there.

[Lord Ash]

No problem with Jay. The guy is a former Duke athlete and a Duke basketball player at that, a guy more familiar with the game than just about anyone here. When you combine that with the fact that Carolina happened to lose a single game, and he still thinks Carolina is #1, that is fine with me. In fact, I hate the formula that seems to exist of "You lose and you fall in the polls, you win and you go up." A team can lose and still be the #1 team in the nation, I think.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

No problem with Jay. The guy is a former Duke athlete and a Duke basketball player at that, a guy more familiar with the game than just about anyone here. When you combine that with the fact that Carolina happened to lose a single game, and he still thinks Carolina is #1, that is fine with me. In fact, I hate the formula that seems to exist of "You lose and you fall in the polls, you win and you go up." A team can lose and still be the #1 team in the nation, I think.
I agree with you, Lord Ash. Jay also writes very good letters.

[natedog4ever]

He's been doing this for more than a few years now. Some of the things he says about Duke border on ludicrous. Let's face it though, he has a career to protect. I think it says a lot that so many of the holes love him.

Whatever, I just turn it when I see him.

[RainingThrees]

Guys he picked Xavier and Southern Illinois to beat us. Come on thats rediculous and frankly not objective. You gotta give us some love at some point.

[Faustus]

Not a Bilas comment but on a fawning ESPN-related note, I saw a tongue-in-cheek post on the Wake Forest board yesterday I had to smile at that was entitled something like: "Vitale says UNC's loss to BC could hurt their chances of going undefeated."

[taiw93]

For the most part, Jay's analysis is very insightful, however, Jay's man-crush on T-Hans has gotten a little out of control - Last year at College Game Day before the Duke - UNC game all he did was talk about Tyler's effort. The guy's a great player but enough is enough.
However, regarding this particular comment, I don't think any Duke fan, Pitt fan, or other college basketball fan could honestly say that UNC is not the best team in the country by far. The loss to BC proved that they are very beatable, however I think it was an aberration.

[jv001]

I try not to even think about the unc holes. But it's hard to do with all the unc posts. Go Duke!

[Devilsfan]

It's fine. Set ole roy up for the ultimate failure. Great job Jay!

[calltheobvious]

This discussion says a lot more about the inanity of college basketball polls than it does about Bilas or anyone's perception of him.

[SupaDave]

This discussion says a lot more about the inanity of college basketball polls than it does about Bilas or anyone's perception of him.

Rankings are like little participation ribbons that your team can show off during the season. They also are a good indication of the kind of season you may have had.

UNC loses four in a row and they drop out of the top 20. Not likely but that's what would happen - even though they would still have a stable full of horses...

[weezie]

No problem with Jay. The guy is a former Duke athlete and a Duke basketball player....


Plus, he rode the surf board all the way up the court last year. AND he gave me the thumbs up and a smile at the ACC tourney in DC a couple of years ago
when I yelled, "Go Duke!" At heart, he's always going to be a Dukie, no matter who signs the healthy paychecks. We need that type of secret agent to help us take over the world!!!!!

[mgtr]

I'll take Bilas any day, just lose Elmore.

[RainingThrees]

Or Hubert Davis. He doesn't even try to be unbiased.

[houstondukie]

Or Hubert Davis. He doesn't even try to be unbiased.

HAHA, so true.

I use to get sooo angry when I read Hubert Davis' power rankings on ESPN.com. Now, I just laugh and actually look forward to them.

[greybeard]

I'm not sure why a guy of Bilas' intellect and basketball IQ would entertain the game of "who is the best team." Sure I do. They pay him and pay him some more to yake something approaching 24/7. He has lost his bearings.

You'd think that Jay would have plenty to say about styles of play, effectiveness of schemes, entertainment value of schemes, what he finds interesting about various teams and how they play, ditto about players. That used to be his forte, and he was terrific to listen to.

Playing the role of a Vegas handicapper and crystal ball soothsayer; I've said it before, I think that guys like him are on the air way too much and lose focus; just blather about things much less inciteful than what they are capable of. It's a shame what money and oversaturation can do.

He needs a break; needs to get a real jo for a while, or spend time with the kids. He used to be great. Not possible for him any longer, I fear, not without some time off.

[ncexnyc]

Here's an interesting piece by Luke Winn, A very nice comparision postion by position, between Pitt and the Heels. http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/in_the_paint/posts/37821

As for polls, I have to agree that while fun, they are for the most part meaningless.

[CameronCrazy'11]

Guys he picked Xavier and Southern Illinois to beat us. Come on thats rediculous and frankly not objective. You gotta give us some love at some point.

Did he really pick Southern Illinois over us?? Wow. You don't happen to have a link to do that, do you? I'd really like to see what his reasoning is.

[RainingThrees]

Did he really pick Southern Illinois over us?? Wow. You don't happen to have a link to do that, do you? I'd really like to see what his reasoning is.

Sorry it was sportscenter.

[msdukie]

Saturday - #2 Duke @ F$U - your announce team according to awfulannouncing.com: Mike Patrick/JAY BILAS. Should be fun.

[jv001]

I'll take anyone over Len Elmore...ughhhhhhhh, maybe even hubert. Go Duke!

[Johnboy]

I've said it before, I think that guys like him are on the air way too much and lose focus; just blather about things much less inciteful than what they are capable of.

I'm not sure a Duke guy can say anything more "inciteful (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_%27inciteful%27_mean)" to Duke fans than to praise UNC-CH.

[bballfan]

I may be wrong here but I think I remember #1 Duke loosing around 2000 or 2001 and still being ranked #1 the following week.

[Johnboy]

I may be wrong here but I think I remember #1 Duke loosing [sic] around 2000 or 2001 and still being ranked #1 the following week.

It certainly happened in 1992, but IIRC, the teams immediately below Duke also lost, and Duke lost away (http://www.dukeupdate.com/Seasons/19911992_duke_blue_devils.htm) game(s) to respected teams (UNC on 2/5 and Wake Forest on 2/23).

This was a home loss to a team ranked by sportswriters preseason to finish 11th in the conference.

[SMO]

Or Hubert Davis. He doesn't even try to be unbiased.

Very true. I've noticed the same thing and you can usually really see it in his old "Power 16" voting. Davis is still bleeding powder blue.

[roywhite]

I would find it interesting to hear a full explanation/analysis from Jay about how the #1 team and one talked about being "head and shoulders" above the competition lost a home conference game to a team that was projected to be near the bottom of the conference. What is it the Tarheels were lacking? What was BC able to do that was surprising or new? Is there a blueprint for other teams that come up against the Heels? Face it---this game did not square at all with the hype we've heard about the Heels.

Instead, what I hear is just another opinion that they're "still the best team." Any yahoo in Bristol, or Chapel Hill, could say the same.

[Lavabe]

For the most part, Jay's analysis is very insightful, however, Jay's man-crush on T-Hans has gotten a little out of control - Last year at College Game Day before the Duke - UNC game all he did was talk about Tyler's effort. The guy's a great player but enough is enough.

But you know, Beaker is the hardest-working player in the conference, err... nation, err... world, err... universe.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[hq2]

Talent wise, Bilas is right; Carolina is the best team. That doesn't mean they'll go all the way by any means. Remember, the 1992 Duke team lost two games but still went wire to wire #1, and did win it all. And I also understand his respect for Hansbrough; remember, in his college days, Bilas was a slightly undersized big man who used his physical strength to play rough under the basket, similar to our favorite 'Hole. That said, I gather Jay's judgment of late has been doubtful, and that's not a good thing. I always viewed him as our man, a smart Duke island of intelligence in a sea of Vitale-Raftery-Musburger idiocy. Hope he gets his sense back.

[jv001]

I'm not sure why a guy of Bilas' intellect and basketball IQ would entertain the game of "who is the best team." Sure I do. They pay him and pay him some more to yake something approaching 24/7. He has lost his bearings.

You'd think that Jay would have plenty to say about styles of play, effectiveness of schemes, entertainment value of schemes, what he finds interesting about various teams and how they play, ditto about players. That used to be his forte, and he was terrific to listen to.

Playing the role of a Vegas handicapper and crystal ball soothsayer; I've said it before, I think that guys like him are on the air way too much and lose focus; just blather about things much less inciteful than what they are capable of. It's a shame what money and oversaturation can do.

He needs a break; needs to get a real jo for a while, or spend time with the kids. He used to be great. Not possible for him any longer, I fear, not without some time off.

You are on to something here graybeard. If Jay doesn't watch out he may end up like Digger Phelps. Just talking to hear himself talk. Jay has always tried to distance himself from Duke BB. I understand that he should not be biased in his praise for Duke like hubert and stuart scott are for unc, but he does not have to be so biased toward the light blue team from chapel hell. I hate it because Jay is a good guy. Go Duke!

[Troublemaker]

The criticism that Jay receives from Duke fans on the internet is both annoying and stupid.

Ignore the fact that it's perfectly reasonable to think UNC is the best team (they easily are, btw) and to pick Duke to get upset (hello, Michigan). Let's say, for argument's sake, that he really does go out of his way to boost UNC and lower expectations for Duke. If I were a TV analyst, I would do the exact same thing. I freaking hate UNC. As an analyst, I would try to build them up so that any failure they experience becomes epic and any success they have is just them doing what was expected. For Duke, I do the opposite, of course. And keep in mind that this Duke team has difficulty staying loose. The coaching staff has talked about the need for our players to have more fun and not be burdened by the accomplishments of previous great Duke teams. Heck yeah, I would try to lower expectations for them as an analyst.

Jay is very, very smart, he really is. All of our '86 guys are. The only catch in his plan is that it requires Duke fans to understand what he's trying to do. He can't spell it out on air for you. It's up to you to just know, and to grin and nod every time he slobbers over UNC and picks against Duke. So far, Duke fans have failed that test.

[hurleyfor3]

No one works harder than Tyler Hansbrough, and no one works harder at liking Tyler Hansbrough than does Jay Bilas. Check it out, I found my new sigfile.

[ncexnyc]

A few weeks ago there was a thread which discussed John Wooden's past. In it I lamented the either it's black or it's white stance a number of board members displayed.

Again, this either you're with us or against us mentality has reared it's ugly head. Being objective in one's analysis of UNC and coming to the conclusion that they are an extremely talented team shouldn't be grounds for the comments being made against Jay. So the Holes lost at home to BC, so what. As I recall we barely squeaked by URI at home and that team was nowhere near as talented as the BC squad that upset UNC.

[BD80]

I'm not sure why a guy of Bilas' intellect and basketball IQ would entertain the game of "who is the best team." ... I think that guys like him are on the air way too much and lose focus; just blather about things much less inciteful than what they are capable of. It's a shame what money and oversaturation can do.

He needs a break; needs to get a real jo for a while, or spend time with the kids. He used to be great. Not possible for him any longer, I fear, not without some time off.

Jay knows more about basketball than anyone on this board. He also has a profession of studying college basketball teams, and regularly displays a knowledge of teams and players equaled by few, if any.

I agree he tries overly hard to appear unbiased, but his opinions are still valid. I also think he over hypes non-BCS teams, but I view it as an attempt to infuse some balance into the equation.

I like to think I hate Hans as much as the next Dukie, but he is a great college player who has achieved much that is noteworthy. I imagine tar heels were pretty tired of hearing about Wojo and other Duke players who hustled endlessly or succeeded without seeming to have sufficient physical talent. I will enjoy watching Hans cry when he loses the NC game, I am sure Coach K will be among the first to offer consolation after having shaken Ol' Roy's hand.

[jv001]

Jay knows more about basketball than anyone on this board. He also has a profession of studying college basketball teams, and regularly displays a knowledge of teams and players equaled by few, if any.

I agree he tries overly hard to appear unbiased, but his opinions are still valid. I also think he over hypes non-BCS teams, but I view it as an attempt to infuse some balance into the equation.

I like to think I hate Hans as much as the next Dukie, but he is a great college player who has achieved much that is noteworthy. I imagine tar heels were pretty tired of hearing about Wojo and other Duke players who hustled endlessly or succeeded without seeming to have sufficient physical talent. I will enjoy watching Hans cry when he loses the NC game, I am sure Coach K will be among the first to offer consolation after having shaken Ol' Roy's hand.

I like your thinking and I have to admit I don't want Jay to come across like hubert and stuart scott. I would like him to be like Brad Daughtery(sp?) when he was doing bb broadcasts. He was not biased toward unc. He was fair and balanced. Go Duke!

[arnie]

The criticism that Jay receives from Duke fans on the internet is both annoying and stupid.

Ignore the fact that it's perfectly reasonable to think UNC is the best team (they easily are, btw) and to pick Duke to get upset (hello, Michigan). Let's say, for argument's sake, that he really does go out of his way to boost UNC and lower expectations for Duke. If I were a TV analyst, I would do the exact same thing. I freaking hate UNC. As an analyst, I would try to build them up so that any failure they experience becomes epic and any success they have is just them doing what was expected. For Duke, I do the opposite, of course. And keep in mind that this Duke team has difficulty staying loose. The coaching staff has talked about the need for our players to have more fun and not be burdened by the accomplishments of previous great Duke teams. Heck yeah, I would try to lower expectations for them as an analyst.

Jay is very, very smart, he really is. All of our '86 guys are. The only catch in his plan is that it requires Duke fans to understand what he's trying to do. He can't spell it out on air for you. It's up to you to just know, and to grin and nod every time he slobbers over UNC and picks against Duke. So far, Duke fans have failed that test.


So if a moderator says that criticizing Jay Bilas is stupid, are we still allowed to do it?

[bluepenguin]

A team can lose and still be the #1 team in the nation, I think.
If I recall correctly, Duke 92 lost twice but still retained the number 1 ranking the entire season!

[hurleyfor3]

So if a moderator says that criticizing Jay Bilas is stupid, are we still allowed to do it?

Stupidity is not a pointable offense per se. The stupid generally earn less than their nonstupid counterparts and fare worse at attracting mates (although exceptions are rife). And good luck getting into Duke. But you can still post here.

[CameronCrazy'11]

Stupidity is not a pointable offense per se. The stupid generally earn less than their nonstupid counterparts and fare worse at attracting mates (although exceptions are rife). And good luck getting into Duke. But you can still post here.

Stupidity didn't stop me from getting into Duke ;)

[MChambers]

So if a moderator says that criticizing Jay Bilas is stupid, are we still allowed to do it?

But it appears that stupidity is allowed here at times! :)

[Jay Bilas]

I rarely jump into opinion based discussions, but I have been getting texted like crazy about the posts in this thread, and I was encouraged to respond. I have to admit, I really enjoyed reading the posts and got some good laughs and some good feedback out of them! I value and respect each opinion, and and have no quarrel with any judgment made. I do, however, want to provide you with a few facts and a little bit of background. I apologize in advance for this being excruciatingly long and boring.

First, I never have a problem with anyone that holds a negative view of me as a broadcaster. Whether you like my commentary or not, that is a matter of taste, and I would not argue with anyone on that. However, the discussion of my "loyalty" or "objectivity" is misplaced. It has always struck me as funny that some Duke fans would readily admit a lack of objectivity themselves, yet steadfastly maintain that I go out of my way to "tear down Duke" to "appear" objective or unbiased. The upshot of that is that I am thought of as biased, but I am somehow dishonestly trying to appear otherwise. That strikes me as silly. If you disagree, say why. To suggest that I have ulterior motives for my comments is about my integrity and not my opinions.

What I say on the air, I believe. I may not always be correct, but I know of no commentator that is. Having played and coached, I have the utmost respect for those that compete, and would never allow where I went to school to control the content of my commentary. When I think Duke is the best team, I say so. When I think that another is better, I say so. It is a pretty simple formula.

One person went so far as to say that I have become a "shill" for North Carolina. A shill is one that publicizes or praises for reasons of self-interest, personal profit or loyalty. To me, it is difficult to reconcile how I could be a "shill" for North Carolina while at the same time pursuing my agenda of trying to "appear" unbiased. That is a difficult tightrope for any commentator to walk!

Second, on the commentary regarding North Carolina as the No. 1 team despite the loss to BC, that was a request from SportsCenter. I was asked to "make a case" for North Carolina maintaining the No. 1 spot despite the loss. SportsCenter wanted 45 seconds on the topic, and I did it before the Georgetown-Notre Dame game on Monday night. I began the commentary by saying, "I think you could make a great case....." It was simply a point of debate for SportsCenter, and I did it. I happen to believe that North Carolina has the best team this season. I also happen to believe that every team will lose games this year, and North Carolina is the most likely to win the National Championship. It is not unreasonable for any person to vote North Carolina No. 1, nor would it be unreasonable for any person to vote Pitt or Duke No. 1. A poll is a collection of individual votes. My vote would be for UNC as the best team. I am not suggesting that we stop the season and award the trophy to the Tar Heels. It is just talk, and just one man's opinion.

I am not always right, but I have a decent record with my judgment on teams. In both 2001 and 2008, I picked the correct Final Four in both October and March of that year. In 2002, 2004, and 2006, I picked Duke to reach the Final Four, and in 2002 and 2006, I was wrong, and in 2004 it proved correct. I say that not to pat myself on the back (maybe just a little) but to ask, was I biased or trying to appear unbiased in all of those judgments? When I pick Duke to beat North Carolina, as I did last year at Duke, and North Carolina wins, what was my motivation? Do I get credit for saying Redick should be Player of the Year over Morrison, or was I doing that to mask or balance my grand plan to appear unbiased?

My employer asks us to make picks, and we do it. When I make a pick, I stand behind it and have a reasoned judgment behind it. It may not always be correct, but it is always honest.

A quick story. I gave a speech just after the 2001 NCAA Tournament and in teh Q & A, a Duke grad gave me a hard time for picking Maryland to beat Duke in the semifinal (a pick that looked prescient with a Terp 22-point lead). He chastised me for being wrong, and I asked him if he picked Duke every year, and how old he was. He said yes and he was 65. I said, "Congratulations, you are 3 for 65". I told the person that if I picked based upon where I went to school, I would not only be wrong more often, but I would have no integrity. And, I told him that I would not do that just to satisfy him or anyone else.

Ask yourself this....at times, you write or post things that are critical of Duke or the players and coaches. Do you have the right to do that and I do not just because I am on ESPN? That would not make much sense to me.

I pick the teams and players I think are the best, pure and simple. But, if one believes otherwise, there is not much I can do about it. More than anything, my self interest in this job is to be right, and that is all I really care about. I want to get it right.

If you disagree with something I say, state your case as to why I am wrong. But, to simply say that I am trying to appear unbiased or going out of my way to tear down Duke is not an argument, and does not advance the ball. I don't mind reasonable disagreement. In fact, I welcome it. Our talk and opinions is not going to change anything that happens on the court. It is just talk.

Second, Hubert Davis is a GREAT guy, and he is unbiased. Most of what you hear from Hubert is tongue in cheek. Hubert has picked against North Carolina on numerous occasions. However, it is undeniable that Hubert's work on GameDay has coincided with North Carolina's great success over the last several years. What is he supposed to do? Should be not pick them for the Final Four because he would appear biased to some? That would be silly.

Most of the top players on the Duke and North Carolina rosters are recruited by both schools. I promise you that if you knew Hubert or Brad Daugherty or Eric Montross, you would really like them. Just as North Carolina fans would really like most Duke guys if they got to know them. Both are great schools with great programs and great people. It follows that both schools have likable and personable people that "get it". Hubert Davis gets it, and I am proud and grateful to have him as a friend.

Third, I never picked Xavier or Southern Illinois over Duke. I don't know where that one came from. I blather on about a lot of things that are very forgettable, but I think I would remember that one. It never happened.

Lastly, and I really mean this, I would never want a Duke fan to like me or my work simply because I played and coached at Duke. If you like the work, fine. If you do not, that is fine, too. I don't deserve any brownie points for having played for Coach K. Given the career I had at Duke, I would understand any negative view of me!! I'm just doing a job, and doing the best I can. I encourage you to evaluate me, and all of us, using your best judgment and your own standards. And, you should get your opinions out there. Yours is just as valid as mine.

Have a great year, and thanks for indulging me!! Best regards, Jay Bilas

[SupaDave]

So if a moderator says that criticizing Jay Bilas is stupid, are we still allowed to do it?

Ummmm... No.

[SupaDave]

A quick story. I gave a speech just after the 2001 NCAA Tournament and in teh Q & A, a Duke grad gave me a hard time for picking Maryland to beat Duke in the semifinal (a pick that looked prescient with a Terp 22-point lead). He chastised me for being wrong, and I asked him if he picked Duke every year, and how old he was. He said yes and he was 65. I said, "Congratulations, you are 3 for 65". I told the person that if I picked based upon where I went to school, I would not only be wrong more often, but I would have no integrity. And, I told him that I would not do that just to satisfy him or anyone else.

Have a great year, and thanks for indulging me!! Best regards, Jay Bilas


You sir - have made my day! LMAO!!! 3 for 65. Classic.

[DukeUsul]

Jay, as always, thanks. I was getting a chuckle out of reading some of the previous posters get on their high horses, knowing you might chime in.

Love the stuff you do. Keep on opining.

[Faison1]

Thanks, Jay. Great post!! I really enjoyed reading that. I am a huge fan of yours, and always will be. I don't always agree with you, but geeze....that's life, right?

It's also a great lesson in consideration for everyone on this board. Be mindful of what you post!! Apparently, everyone reads it....that's recruits, alums, outsiders...everyone! When I post, I try to think, would I be offended if someone wrote this about me? We don't want to alienate anyone, including other schools.

So, Jay, thanks for your time. I was thrilled to read what you wrote!

[Indoor66]

Great post Jay. Thanks.

I enjoy your commentaries and game coverage. I know that when we disagree, you are wrong! :D

[77devil]

Thanks for the post Jay. I have to disgaree, however, with your assersion that Hubert Davis is unbiased. The data strongly indicates otherwise. He consistently ranks Duke below every other analyst in the ESPN weekly power rankings, sometimes singificantly lower. Last year, for example, even after UNC lost to Duke, having been previously upset by Maryland, Hubert picked Duke below everyone else. After the Maryland loss, he did not move UNC at all, but when Duke lost to Michigan this year he dropped Duke 5 spots to #10. I could continue filling the space examples but you get the point. Coincidence you might respond? I think not, and again, the data suggests otherwise.

I am sure Hubert is a great guy and a good friend as you wrote, but let's not confuse comraderie with objectivity.

[ArnieMc]

I promise you that if you knew Hubert or Brad Daugherty or Eric Montross, you would really like them.I'll give you Hubert and Brad, but Eric Montross??? Isn't there anybody we can irrationally hate? How about Maktar or Vince?

[hurleyfor3]

I am sure Hubert is a great guy and a good friend as you wrote, but let's not confuse comraderie with objectivity.

Or maybe Hubert really is right and everyone else is wrong. As much as it hurts to admit, unc has gone further than us in three of the last four NCAA Tournaments, and in the odd one out (2006) we didn't go much further. So if he's picking in terms of who he thinks the best overall teams are, he's been right to the extent the postseason is the ultimate judgement.

I like Hubert. And don't always agree with Jay, but he is incontrovertibly a credit to Duke basketball and Duke University.

[jv001]

Well you just made me feel about 2 foot tall. I will never mention your name with Digger again. You gave me some incite on what is asked of you by ESPN and I had never thought about that side of your profession. Like I said you are a good guy and that's not just blowing smoke. I was blessed to meet you and Johnny at Bob Harris' golf tournament so I can say that from first hand experience. So Go Duke and Jay Bilas!

[hurleyfor3]

I'll give you Hubert and Brad, but Eric Montross??? Isn't there anybody we can irrationally hate? How about Maktar or Vince?

I'm pretty sure there'll always be Dean.

[Jay Bilas]

Okay, I have to respond....this can be addictive...

On Hubert: Where he ranks a team my just be his opinion, and not a function of bias. If you disagree, state why you disagree. To simply state bias is an unpersuasive argument, especially when you would be an easy target on the flip side. People have different views of how to vote in polls. Some view it as a snapshot, some take the long view. All I know is, I have long discussions with Hubert, and he has heft behind his judgments. Like me, he may not always be right, but he is always fair minded. If I believed otherwise, I would not take this position with you.

On "irrational hatred": How can I appeal to another not to take an irrational view? You may have any irrational opinion you like, and I am powerless to stop it. But, it is entirely irrational to dislike Hubert, Brad, Eric or any other person based upon where they went to school. Duke recruited its tail off to get Montross, just as UNC tried like crazy to get Hurley. If they switched places, the feelings about each would be different even though both are great guys.

On "alienating" me: I have no problem with anyone that says I'm a lousy broadcaster, I don't know what I'm talking about or that they prefer another person doing the games. That is fine, and I have no issues with such opinions and would never respond to such things. What I was referring to is the facile reaction that any criticism of your team or discussion of another team over your team is a result of bias or the attempt to "appear" objective. That is an issue of honesty and integrity, and seems a bit over the top to me. To suggest bias and list picks as conclusive evidence of bias is just as silly as pointing to free throw differential as conclusive evidence of biased officiating. It is facile interpretation, at best. If you think that Duke is the best team this year, and I were to simply state in response that you are a Duke fan and therefore biased, it would be dismissive of the judgment without addressing it in a meaningful and thoughtful manner.

I have to go. I have to "appear" as if I am working today. Best regards, Jay Bilas

[77devil]

Okay, I have to respond....this can be addictive...

On Hubert: Where he ranks a team my just be his opinion, and not a function of bias. If you disagree, state why you disagree. To simply state bias is an unpersuasive argument, especially when you would be an easy target on the flip side. People have different views of how to vote in polls. Some view it as a snapshot, some take the long view. All I know is, I have long discussions with Hubert, and he has heft behind his judgments. Like me, he may not always be right, but he is always fair minded. If I believed otherwise, I would not take this position with you.

I have to respond too. I did not simply state he was biased. I offered several credible examples of how his rankings deviated from 9 other analysts. If this was an occasional situation, simple opinion or a different ranking philosophy would be a reasonable explanation. But again, as previously stated, Hubert's ranking of Duke week in and week out is typically lower than every other analyst, and again, sometimes significantly, while he tends to conform with others on the rest of his picks.

Is the data statistically significant? I am not sure, although there are enough data points in the 2008/2009 power rankings to crunch the numbers if anyone is inclined to do so. I am not that interested to bother, but the data is more than a reasonable case for bias IMO. Let's see what today's picks look like.

[roywhite]

I'll give you Hubert and Brad, but Eric Montross??? Isn't there anybody we can irrationally hate? How about Maktar or Vince?

Makhtar Ndiaye? He of the throat-slashing gestures, he who leaped on the scorer's table to taunt Duke fans after a win, he who made false racist accusations of a Utah player??

Hating him doesn't seem irrational.

[77devil]

Or maybe Hubert really is right and everyone else is wrong. As much as it hurts to admit, unc has gone further than us in three of the last four NCAA Tournaments, and in the odd one out (2006) we didn't go much further. So if he's picking in terms of who he thinks the best overall teams are, he's been right to the extent the postseason is the ultimate judgement.

I like Hubert. And don't always agree with Jay, but he is incontrovertibly a credit to Duke basketball and Duke University.

UNC relative to Duke was not the point nor did I make such a suggestion. I too would have picked UNC ahead of Duke for most of last year and this year in the weekly polls. But if you want to believe Hubert is right, and everyone else is wrong with respect to Duke relative to the field so be it. I can't debate that logic.

[jv001]

I have to respond too. I did not simply state he was biased. I offered several credible examples of how his rankings deviated from 9 other analysts. If this was an occasional situation, simple opinion or a different ranking philosophy would be a reasonable explanation. But again, as previously stated, Hubert's ranking of Duke week in and week out is typically lower than every other analyst, and again, sometimes significantly, while he tends to conform with others on the rest of his picks.

Is the data statistically significant? I am not sure, although there are enough data points in the 2008/2009 power rankings to crunch the numbers if anyone is inclined to do so. I am not that interested to bother, but the data is more than a reasonable case for bias IMO. Let's see what today's picks look like.

I have not caught hubert's picks. What time does he make these picks? Maybe he's making these predictions base on end of year projections(tourney) rather than present play. I'm not taking up for him, but hubert does seem to be a pretty good guy. As for Montross, I like him because he is a Christian brother in Christ. Oh by the way, Jay has gone to work. Go Duke!

[Jay Bilas]

Lunchtime. Just because one person rates teams in a different order than the pack is not credible evidence of bias. The data is significant only of a different opinion. Like I said before, one can point to free throw differential and claim the officials are biased, but it is hardly dispositive of the issue.

There are 340 teams in Division I. I can promise you that it is not all about Duke and North Carolina for any of us.

My sole point is, if you disagree with a person's rankings, say so and say why. To point out differences and chalk it up to bias doesn't get us anywhere in a reasonable discussion. If I were to suggest that you are biased and dismiss your opinion based upon that, it would be similarly unfair.

You and I disagree on Hubert's bias or lack thereof, and that is okay. In my judgment, unless bias can be demonstrated beyond a few differences in rankings, I don't see the value in diminishing a smart and principled basketball man like Hubert. I do respect your opinion, though, and certainly did not mean to devalue it in our discussion. Thanks!! Jay

[davekay1971]

Now that we have Jay Bilas in the room, I want to pick his brain!

First, I agree completely with an earlier poster who said that Jay is a credit to Duke University. Duke has a number of alumns in the media, including (but I'm sure not limited to) Jay, Mike Gminski, Jim Spanarkle (apologize if I misspelled), and JWill, and all of them do credit to our University.

As for rankings and disagreements, it's hard to argue against UNC as number 1 based on their performance this year. Even including the BC loss, UNC has been dominant in all other games, including games against respectable competition. However, though my check from ESPN hasn't arrived yet, I'll disagree with Jay and make the argument that Duke is the better team this year (and since I'm an amateur, I can be biased about it).

Outside of my bias, my argument is based on (1) Duke's defensive efficiency (much better than Carolina's), (2) Duke's markedly improved interior game (though still inferior to Carolina's), and (3) Duke's wealth of scoring options (actually about even when you look at it, though our 3 pt shooting still needs to improve). I would argue that Duke can minimize transition opportunities for Carolina with our multitude of good ball handlers, Duke can make scoring harder for them in half-court than any team they've faced this year, and Duke can give Carolina enough matchup problems with Singler and Scheyer for us to effectively handle their defense.

So Mr. Bilas, I have disagreed and given reasons!

[feldspar]

Lunchtime. Just because one person rates teams in a different order than the pack is not credible evidence of bias. The data is significant only of a different opinion. Like I said before, one can point to free throw differential and claim the officials are biased, but it is hardly dispositive of the issue.

There are 340 teams in Division I. I can promise you that it is not all about Duke and North Carolina for any of us.

My sole point is, if you disagree with a person's rankings, say so and say why. To point out differences and chalk it up to bias doesn't get us anywhere in a reasonable discussion. If I were to suggest that you are biased and dismiss your opinion based upon that, it would be similarly unfair.

You and I disagree on Hubert's bias or lack thereof, and that is okay. In my judgment, unless bias can be demonstrated beyond a few differences in rankings, I don't see the value in diminishing a smart and principled basketball man like Hubert. I do respect your opinion, though, and certainly did not mean to devalue it in our discussion. Thanks!! Jay


Jay, just so you know, you got the goaltending call completely wrong in last night's Zags/Tennessee game.

First of all, had the ball even been touched (which it wasn't) the call would have been Basket Interference, not goaltending.

Second, the ball was never touched, and the ring wasn't pulled down. So, by rule, there was no basket interference. Good no-call by the refs.

[dukesbetter]

I just want to thank Jay for his thoughtful and well constructed posts. Not only do I agree with him, but truly respect his desire to elevate the level of discourse.

I am a long time reader of the DBR, although rarely post. More often than not, the discussion on these boards is miles above the average college basketball site. It rises above partisan antics, which is part of the reason why fans of other schools post (intelligently) here as well.

[DukeDude]

I usually skip the threads like this one that criticize Jay Bilas for having an anti-Duke bias to try to appear impartial. This topic comes up a few times every year, and I have always found it to be ridiculous. I am glad I stopped to read this one.

Keep up the good work, Jay! You, Hubert, and Brad all do a fine job. In fact, many of us wish Brad was still doing college hoops instead of NASCAR. It is Len "Duke gets all the calls" Elmore that I have issues with.

And stop by more often. Does ESPN really make you punch a time clock?

[77devil]

Lunchtime. Just because one person rates teams in a different order than the pack is not credible evidence of bias. The data is significant only of a different opinion. Like I said before, one can point to free throw differential and claim the officials are biased, but it is hardly dispositive of the issue.

There are 340 teams in Division I. I can promise you that it is not all about Duke and North Carolina for any of us.

My sole point is, if you disagree with a person's rankings, say so and say why. To point out differences and chalk it up to bias doesn't get us anywhere in a reasonable discussion. If I were to suggest that you are biased and dismiss your opinion based upon that, it would be similarly unfair.

You and I disagree on Hubert's bias or lack thereof, and that is okay. In my judgment, unless bias can be demonstrated beyond a few differences in rankings, I don't see the value in diminishing a smart and principled basketball man like Hubert. I do respect your opinion, though, and certainly did not mean to devalue it in our discussion. Thanks!! Jay

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on Hubert's ranking bias, but I certainly respect your opinion. Thanks for stopping by and do so again-more often.

[SupaDave]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on Hubert's ranking bias, but I certainly respect your opinion. Thanks for stopping by and do so again-more often.

I don't disagree with Hubert's rankings at all. The guy IS ranking us. It would be different if he chose to ignore us altogether. Besides, it's his opinion. I'm sure he has looked at the team the last couple years and thought the same thing as everyone else - 'no post presence' - and that in itself is cause for concern.

I bet if you go back and look at his predictions during the Matt D. years things won't be as rosy for UNC

[RelativeWays]

Regarding the story on the front page linking Jay to the story where he commented "not having seen UNC play this badly" I'm guessing he's talking about this years team, thus last years thumping by Kansas was probably not on his mind. Lets not forget that the 2002 UNC squad played far worse than either game....in quite a few games that year.

[mapei]

If one bases one's feelings on NCAA tourney performance or where teams will be at the very end (I don't, but a lot of people think "March" is all that really matters), it is not unreasonable to be cautious about Duke, given recent performances.

[elvis14]

I just have to say that my respect for Jay went up today...lots. I really liked what he had to say and I love the fact that he not only defended himself here but did it with such a well thought out response. Thanks Jay.

Now...if you would just be a little more positive about our Blue Devils :D <--- kidding!

[DukePA]

Okay, I have to respond....this can be addictive...

On Hubert: Where he ranks a team my just be his opinion, and not a function of bias. If you disagree, state why you disagree. To simply state bias is an unpersuasive argument, especially when you would be an easy target on the flip side. People have different views of how to vote in polls. Some view it as a snapshot, some take the long view. All I know is, I have long discussions with Hubert, and he has heft behind his judgments. Like me, he may not always be right, but he is always fair minded. If I believed otherwise, I would not take this position with you.

On "irrational hatred": How can I appeal to another not to take an irrational view? You may have any irrational opinion you like, and I am powerless to stop it. But, it is entirely irrational to dislike Hubert, Brad, Eric or any other person based upon where they went to school. Duke recruited its tail off to get Montross, just as UNC tried like crazy to get Hurley. If they switched places, the feelings about each would be different even though both are great guys.

On "alienating" me: I have no problem with anyone that says I'm a lousy broadcaster, I don't know what I'm talking about or that they prefer another person doing the games. That is fine, and I have no issues with such opinions and would never respond to such things. What I was referring to is the facile reaction that any criticism of your team or discussion of another team over your team is a result of bias or the attempt to "appear" objective. That is an issue of honesty and integrity, and seems a bit over the top to me. To suggest bias and list picks as conclusive evidence of bias is just as silly as pointing to free throw differential as conclusive evidence of biased officiating. It is facile interpretation, at best. If you think that Duke is the best team this year, and I were to simply state in response that you are a Duke fan and therefore biased, it would be dismissive of the judgment without addressing it in a meaningful and thoughtful manner.

I have to go. I have to "appear" as if I am working today. Best regards, Jay Bilas

Thanks for posting, Jay, and welcome! DBR is extremely addictive . . . beware :). As I put on my rational hat, I have only two things to say: GTHC!!! :D Go Duke!!!

[Oriole Way]

Jay,

Thanks for stopping by and posting. I consider you to be one of the best analysts in the business, and you have been a credit to Duke as both an alum and former player. I think the biggest compliment I could give you is that many of my friends went to Maryland and hate Duke with a passion, but will always grudgingly admit that you are one of the best analysts and color guys ESPN has.

For what it's worth, which isn't much, the only problem I have with your assessment of North Carolina is that their loss to BC shared many of the traits of their previous losses over the past two seasons, the most glaring of which is that UNC doesn't play the defense necessary to win a championship, or to be considered the best team in the country. I understand that North Carolina in 2009 is different from the previous two seasons' editions, but many of the key players remain the same. This year's Carolina team is virtually identical to last season's, with the addition of a couple of talented freshman. In both of Carolina's tournament losses to Georgetown and Kansas, they consistently couldn't defend or get stops, aside from not being able to hit the broad side of a barn when shooting. When Carolina goes into an offensive lull against a top flight team, they can't fall back on their defense to win them games. I think the fact that BC just lost to Harvard makes UNC's loss to the Eagles look even worse. One of the alleged best teams of all time isn't going to lose to a middle of the pack conference opponent on their own home floor - ever.

One thing in particular which I would appreciate your insight on - Carolina's NBA prospects. One hallmark of almost every national champion over the past 20 years has been NBA talent on the roster. At least one or two players goes on to start in the NBA at some point. For example, the 2000-2001 national champion Duke team had 5 legitimate NBA starters, 4 of which start for their teams currently.

Do you consider any of UNC's players to be a starter in the NBA at any point? I don't think so. Lawson and Hansbrough will be rotation players, with Lawson having a chance to man the point for a bad team, but I don't think either player will ever start in the NBA. I know you think very highly of Hansbrough, especially his effort and "motor". But many scouts and draft experts doubt his size and shooting ability will translate well to the NBA. His stock has not improved this season, and in some ways has fallen in a weak class. Ellington is playing himself out of the first round of the NBA draft entirely, and many scouts and even UNC fans are beginning to doubt whether he has the talent to have an impact in the NBA anymore. But what baffles me is how 3 players can each be deemed not good enough to enter the NBA draft last year, and they can return to school to suddenly form the core of what many of your colleagues considered one of the best teams of all time.

2008-2009 North Carolina would struggle to compete with several national champions from this decade alone, including UNC in 2005, both Florida teams, Duke in 2001, and Maryland in 2002. I know that you personally have not claimed that they are one of the best teams ever, but the media had been talking about it ever since the beginning of the season, and until their disappointing outing against BC. I have no idea why. Is college basketball really that down this year?

I also have to question why someone as knowledgeable as yourself would continue to praise this team after being exposed by a decent but unspectacular Boston College team. I don't doubt that you think they're the most talented team, but I don't think it's fair to say they have the best body of work to this point, which is one of your comments with which I most disagree. UNC hasn't played a terribly difficult schedule. Their best two wins have been against Michigan State without one of their best players, Goran Suton, and Notre Dame with their best player adversely affected by pneumonia. Considering their loss at home to BC was perhaps the worst loss by any top 10 team, and I think it's unreasonable to say North Carolina has the best body of work, or deserves to be ranked number 1. They might be the most talented team, but they're not playing like it right now, and I doubt they can win a title with the defense they play. They lack toughness when a talented team punches them in the face, like Kansas, Maryland, and Duke last year, and BC this year.

I don't expect you to read this post considering you're very busy, but in the off chance you do and can respond, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

[sagegrouse]

You gave me some incite on what is asked of you by ESPN and I had never thought about that side of your profession.

OK -- I have had it with these malaprops. I am now calling out NYCDukie (or whatever), Saratoga1, and jv001 for using "incite" when they mean "insight." Good grief -- these are fighting words and we could have a riot here.

For heaven sakes! Get your vocabulary strait!

sagegrouse

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

OK -- I have had it with these malaprops. I am now calling out NYCDukie (or whatever), Saratoga1, and jv001 for using "incite" when they mean "insight." Good grief -- these are fighting words and we could have a riot here.

For heaven sakes! Get your vocabulary strait!

sagegrouse

Hey! You sound like a newspaper editor!:D

[Jumbo]

He's trying waaay to hard to be unbiased. I don't even listen to him anymore because he tears down Duke and raises up the holes.
What an absurd statement. Jay defended himself quite well, but I think given your age and relative lack of experience in the world, you might want to try thinking before you post a little more often. Comments like the one above -- as well as your false accusations later in this thread -- do not reflect well on your analytical skills, nor on this site as a whole.

[Jumbo]

So if a moderator says that criticizing Jay Bilas is stupid, are we still allowed to do it?

Hey, if your goal is to sound stupid, go right ahead! ;)

[freedevil]

How cool is it that Jay Bilas posted on DBR?

[Jumbo]

How cool is it that Jay Bilas posted on DBR?

Jay actually has a pretty long history of posting on DBR, even though his visits have been infrequent. Sometimes I forget how many new posters the site has attracted in the last year or two.

[CameronCrazy'11]

I think all the accusations that Jay or anyone else was being a homer for UNC is based on disagreement over how people should vote in the polls. Namely, do you vote for who you think is the best team, or do you vote based on performance? Obviously at the beginning of the season, you have to vote based on your evaluation of the roster, and how the team looks "on paper". The real question is when do you stop giving credit to the team that looks better "on paper" and rank them below the team that has performed better.

Obviously, you can certainly make the argument that UNC is still the better team on paper, and will therefore be the best team for the rest of the year. However, to this point, Duke has performed better on the court, at least according to RPI, Pomeroy, Sagarin, and the other objective rating systems that only consider on court performance. I'm guessing some people thought Jay and others were "biased" because they were arguing that Carolina was objectively better, even when the "unbiased" ranking systems disagreed. However, I'm guessing that at this point in the season, Jay and others rely somewhat on subjective factors in evaluating the teams, especially when the objective differences aren't that great. If UNC loses a few more games, and Pitt and Duke don't, and people are still rating UNC #1, then I think you can argue bias, but not at this point.

[jv001]

Hey, if your goal is to sound stupid, go right ahead! ;)

We missed you. Well I did.

[jv001]

OK -- I have had it with these malaprops. I am now calling out NYCDukie (or whatever), Saratoga1, and jv001 for using "incite" when they mean "insight." Good grief -- these are fighting words and we could have a riot here.

For heaven sakes! Get your vocabulary strait!

sagegrouse

Thanks for stopping the riot. I'll try to be careful with my vocabulary and give insight when I can, but be careful not to incite another riot. Go Duke!

[davekay1971]

OK -- I have had it with these malaprops. I am now calling out NYCDukie (or whatever), Saratoga1, and jv001 for using "incite" when they mean "insight." Good grief -- these are fighting words and we could have a riot here.

For heaven sakes! Get your vocabulary strait!

sagegrouse

Perhaps you could also get every student I knew in med school to stop spelling mnemonic as "pneumonic".

[BD80]

OK -- I have had it with these malaprops. I am now calling out NYCDukie (or whatever), Saratoga1, and jv001 for using "incite" when they mean "insight." Good grief -- these are fighting words and we could have a riot here.

sagegrouse

That is a board rule here isn't it?

"When in site, have the insight not to incite."

I'll tell you, those malaprops make me go nucular.


;)

[captmojo]

Lunchtime. Just because one person rates teams in a different order than the pack is not credible evidence of bias. The data is significant only of a different opinion. Like I said before, one can point to free throw differential and claim the officials are biased, but it is hardly dispositive of the issue.

There are 340 teams in Division I. I can promise you that it is not all about Duke and North Carolina for any of us.

My sole point is, if you disagree with a person's rankings, say so and say why. To point out differences and chalk it up to bias doesn't get us anywhere in a reasonable discussion. If I were to suggest that you are biased and dismiss your opinion based upon that, it would be similarly unfair.

You and I disagree on Hubert's bias or lack thereof, and that is okay. In my judgment, unless bias can be demonstrated beyond a few differences in rankings, I don't see the value in diminishing a smart and principled basketball man like Hubert. I do respect your opinion, though, and certainly did not mean to devalue it in our discussion. Thanks!! Jay

Thank you Jay, for responding to the insolence my my offspring, that has been responsible for opening this can of night crawlers. :o He is extremely biased and unabashedly so. :) This is a virtue that has been instilled to him by his parentage. :rolleyes: I'm glad to see that you held back pointing any single poster out by name and also happy to read your self-defense. I wish you only the best of luck in your broadcast efforts and otherwise.

Now that the "curse" has been lifted from my views of your job performance, I favor Pitt for first place over unc by virtue of their present record. Weekly rankings are meant to reveal a position of a team's value against the opposition, up to the present time, are they not? If that is the case, I believe the current record does speak in favor of Pitt over most all others, until such time as they lose and someone else rises.


By the way, I also believe that the reason one team may receive more free-throw attempts per game is firmly rooted in the fact that one team has committed more free-throw opportunity fouls than the other.

I will take this chance to speak for all who read here to say that we welcome your opinions and wish the chance to see many more of them written here.:)

[msdukie]

Looks like we get Jay 2 games in a row! Jay's with Brad Nessler on Wednesday at Tech. Coincidence?.... ;)

[sagegrouse]

That is a board rule here isn't it?

"When in site, have the insight not to incite."

I'll tell you, those malaprops make me go nucular.


;)

Funny thing is my initial faux rant ended with an intentional malaprop, "Keep your vocabulary s-t-r-a-i-t," which was too obscure to be noticed.

sagegrouse

[roywhite]

I thought Jay was terrific today doing the Duke--FSU game. Insightful, funny, knowledgeable. He's one of the best sports commentators on TV.

[Lavabe]

I thought Jay was terrific today doing the Duke--FSU game. Insightful, funny, knowledgeable. He's one of the best sports commentators on TV.

Major improvement today, given that he made no mention of Beaker, the Holes, etc... He stuck to the game.

Also major props to him for how he continued to do well despite the the fan near the mike.

[heyman25]

I have bashed Jay for years. He was outstanding today! Welcome back to the Jay Bilas I used to like.

[hughgs]

I think all the accusations that Jay or anyone else was being a homer for UNC is based on disagreement over how people should vote in the polls. Namely, do you vote for who you think is the best team, or do you vote based on performance? Obviously at the beginning of the season, you have to vote based on your evaluation of the roster, and how the team looks "on paper". The real question is when do you stop giving credit to the team that looks better "on paper" and rank them below the team that has performed better.

Obviously, you can certainly make the argument that UNC is still the better team on paper, and will therefore be the best team for the rest of the year. However, to this point, Duke has performed better on the court, at least according to RPI, Pomeroy, Sagarin, and the other objective rating systems that only consider on court performance. I'm guessing some people thought Jay and others were "biased" because they were arguing that Carolina was objectively better, even when the "unbiased" ranking systems disagreed. However, I'm guessing that at this point in the season, Jay and others rely somewhat on subjective factors in evaluating the teams, especially when the objective differences aren't that great. If UNC loses a few more games, and Pitt and Duke don't, and people are still rating UNC #1, then I think you can argue bias, but not at this point.

This thread has me also thinking about the polls and what they mean to different people. It seems that everybody has one of three ideas of what the polls mean. First, rankings imply how the teams would do in head-to-head matches now. Second, they rank based on how the teams would do in head-to-head matches in the tournament. And the third idea is how the teams are performing (not necessarily how they would fare against each other). Hence the polls reflect an average of these ideas. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I think the problem occurs when people forget that the polls are an amalgamation of opinions. They assume that the polls reflect their set of ideas and when it doesn't then a pollster is accused of bias (i.e. Jay) or that some upset has occured (ESPN).

[doctorhook]

Jay,

Thanks for your input. If you do wander back here, please see the thread started by me some time ago, now titled meta Jay Bilas. I have a series of fair questions for you, and would appreciate your responses. Thanks Doc

[_Gary]

I have bashed Jay for years. He was outstanding today! Welcome back to the Jay Bilas I used to like.

Me too. Today, for the first time in many a years, I heard Jay call a Duke game and actually not be scared/concerned to say good things about Duke and even get defensive a bit when his partner tried to pull a "Duke got away with one" or something similar. Jay actually called the game right down the middle and it was a joy to listen to. Please continue to call Duke games just like you did today, Mr. Bilas. It was wonderful.


Gary

[CameronCrazy'11]

It was very, very nice to be able to listen to a Duke game without hearing about how great Hansbroborah was or the Holes are.

[DukieInKansas]

Okay, I have to respond....this can be addictive...

I have to go. I have to "appear" as if I am working today. Best regards, Jay Bilas

Welcome to our world - addictive posting and trying to look like you are working. (Stay away from the LTE!)

I enjoyed your work today, especially the comment about changes to your hair compared to Coach K's over the years. I want to point out that Coach K has a higher forehead than when he first came to Duke.

A question about today - was that fan we could hear on TV as annoying to you as it was to us?

Also, I miss Brad Daugherty doing college basketball. Will he be back or is he strictly NASCAR now? It has been nice to see Jason Williams in the studio also.

[DukieInKansas]

OK -- I have had it with these malaprops. I am now calling out NYCDukie (or whatever), Saratoga1, and jv001 for using "incite" when they mean "insight." Good grief -- these are fighting words and we could have a riot here.

For heaven sakes! Get your vocabulary strait!

sagegrouse

I'll get straight to my question - did you mean George Strait? ;)

[sagegrouse]

I'll get straight to my question - did you mean George Strait? ;)

You got the point of my post: noone is perfcet.

sagegrouse

[weezie]

Jay and Mike sounded like they were having a great time yesterday. Good chemistry. I thought they were sitting on joy buzzers at one point, when they began laughing about the time clock stoppage.
Big ups to Jay, still one good looking guy!

Hey Jay, would Mike consider riding the surfboard this year? :)

[Lord Ash]

OK -- I have had it with these malaprops. I am now calling out NYCDukie (or whatever), Saratoga1, and jv001 for using "incite" when they mean "insight." Good grief -- these are fighting words and we could have a riot here.

For heaven sakes! Get your vocabulary strait!

sagegrouse

Thank you thank you thank you!

And thanks to Jay for stopping by, what a treat:)

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Thanks for posting. Year in and year out, the best analysts in college basketball are you, Mike Gminski, Jim Spanarkel (why does he only do it for the NCAA tournament?) and now Jason Williams. OK, I'm a bit biased, I admit it, but it is also my honest opinion.

Here's a picture we had taken together at the class reunions in April 2006 at the Friday night tent parties. One of the great things about being in the class of 1976 is you six guys who were class of 1986 and our reunions coincide every five years! I also have pictures with Johnny, Mark, David and Weldon, and of y'all leaving in that big, long white limo. I can email them to you if you want ;)

[Bostondevil]

Jay, if you come back to this thread, IMHO you can say whatever you want and you'll still sound like you know what you're talking about. You always do. I enjoyed you doing the FSU game, particularly the comments about Coach's hair. But please, please, please don't ever do a commercial where they call you 'Duke Boy' again. OK? That's all I ask.

[devildeac]

Thanks for posting. Year in and year out, the best analysts in college basketball are you, Mike Gminski, Jim Spanarkel (why does he only do it for the NCAA tournament?) and now Jason Williams. OK, I'm a bit biased, I admit it, but it is also my honest opinion.

Here's a picture we had taken together at the class reunions in April 2006 at the Friday night tent parties. One of the great things about being in the class of 1976 is you six guys who were class of 1986 and our reunions coincide every five years! I also have pictures with Johnny, Mark, David and Weldon, and of y'all leaving in that big, long white limo. I can email them to you if you want ;)

Wow, Jay REALLY does have a kind heart for Duke and the alums...;)

[Lavabe]

Thanks for posting. Year in and year out, the best analysts in college basketball are you, Mike Gminski, Jim Spanarkel (why does he only do it for the NCAA tournament?) and now Jason Williams. OK, I'm a bit biased, I admit it, but it is also my honest opinion.

Jimmy recently did a broadcast with GMan. ILJ was glued to the tv.;)

[DisplacedBlueDevil]

Jay doesn't need to be concerned with his integrity during his TV broadcasts...as an old announcer (who once resided in Winston-Salem) used to say, "tell it like it is". That, together with his humor, quick wit and knowledge of the game, will keep us tuning by.

My 3 favorite Bilasisms:

Raftery impersonation
Football analogies
Pocket square

[Wildling]

The Bilastrator! At least that is what "the ladies" call him on the morning radio show here in Charlotte ;)

I have to say reading over most of these posts, you guys are way off on your opinion of Jay. If you guys could listen to him when he calls in to 610 WFNZ you would think differently about how he feels about Duke and the rest of the College bball teams. Totally unfiltered and he can give his honest opinion without ESPN telling him what he has to talk about for that particular night.

Jay your one of the guys I look forward to listening to when it comes to analyzing NCAA teams and predictions for the rest of the season. Showing extra love for Duke isn't what I want to hear, I want to listen to good,sound opinions and statistics to prove your opinion. And you do that pretty darn well.

What impresses me the most listening to you, is your knowledge of the rest of the NCAA teams that I don't get to watch. You are a stats machine and always give an honest opinion, that's all a listener can ask for.

When is your next appearance with the ladies? If you guys want to hear the Chief of the grammar police, listen to him rip into these guys in the morning and you will have a good laugh I promise you.

Oh yeah, please,please ask the powers that be at ESPN to pair you up with Rafferty when calling the Duke games. I want to hear "Duke opens up with man to man!" I always chuckle when I hear him say that.

[Travis]

The best analysis Jay ever made was in card gymnasium in the Fall of 1990. I had come back for alumni weekend after graduating the prior spring and after some heated hoops Jay and I were chatting on the sideline. I asked him about the incoming Freshman and made some comment about the expectations for a certain freshman being astronomically high and how it can be tough to carry such a burden. I'll never forget Jay turning, looking me straight in the eye and stating emphatically,

"He'll fulfill every one."

I was never surprised that Jay is a superb analyst, but I doubt his analysis will ever top his pithy summary of Grant Hill's prospects. At least not in my book.

Travis
Class of 1990

[jv001]

The best analysis Jay ever made was in card gymnasium in the Fall of 1990. I had come back for alumni weekend after graduating the prior spring and after some heated hoops Jay and I were chatting on the sideline. I asked him about the incoming Freshman and made some comment about the expectations for a certain freshman being astronomically high and how it can be tough to carry such a burden. I'll never forget Jay turning, looking me straight in the eye and stating emphatically,

"He'll fulfill every one."

I was never surprised that Jay is a superb analyst, but I doubt his analysis will ever top his pithy summary of Grant Hill's prospects. At least not in my book.

Travis
Class of 1990
Grant was probably Duke's best all around player. He could do it all and never seemed to let the pressure get to him. I would say that he and Christian were the two best at playing under pressure. And for that I rank them #1 and #1A as Duke's best all time players. No make that a tie. Go Duke!

[geraldsneighbor]

Jay took Georgetown...shocker.

[devildeac]

Jay took Georgetown...shocker.

Realistic choice/good analysis?

Bulletin board material?

I haven't seen the breakdown/discussion, but they handled the 'cuse fairly easily and have a solid team. If the line comes out in the AM that we are favored, it might not be by much. I expect quite a battle.

[jv001]

Jay took Georgetown...shocker.

GT could win this game because it's a toss up. Both are potential Final Four
teams. But I think Duke prevails this time. Go Crazies and Go Duke!

[DisplacedBlueDevil]

Maybe all you folks questioning Bilas' bias have a point. I just watched the 1984 ACC Regional Semi-Final on ESPN Classic where Duke knocks off UNC (I believe this was Michael Jordan's last ACC game). Bilas played a nice game and got some big rebounds but early on he actually tips one in for the Tar Heels and he wasn't even on the floor at the end of the game! Perhaps there is something to your conspiracy theory...

(Just kidding, Jay)

[roywhite]

Jay took Georgetown...shocker.

Glad to see that prediction go wrong.

My sense is that Jay has over-rated UNC this year, and under-rated Duke. I guess we'll see how the season plays out.

[camion]

If UNC had Duke's coach this year I might take them against the field. As it is I think they have as good a chance as anyone. They are an impressive collection of players.

[Wander]

This needs to be brought up, and I figured we probably didn't need yet another Bilas thread.

Jay has been a huge disappointment the past few weeks, and it has nothing to do with any Duke bias or anti-bias or whatever (something I've always found a bit silly to get angry over).

His push to eliminate automatic bids from the tournament is either shortsighted or just him trying to be edgy like a radio talk show host. At least, that's what I hope it is, because if he genuinely thought through that idea for a while, it shows he has a surprising lack of understanding on why and how the tournament works.

He's also mentioned several times the past few days that teams from the 6 BCS conferences get unfair treatment compared to mid-majors. Is that a joke? What's worse, he actually seems mean spirited about it, bragging that he would have been Ivy League player of the year or acting like anyone who thinks St. Mary's is a better team than Arizona is an idiot.

Finally - and this isn't just his fault - the college gameday show has absolutely sucked in general. I challenge anyone to watch the first half of the show yesterday, then look me in the eye and tell me that the gameday guys weren't actively cheering for Arizona to get in - for a full 30 minutes! I think a legitimate case can be made for putting Arizona in instead of Creighton, but the "discussion" the guys had about it was 100% unfair and actually seemed corrupt. Also, is really no one going to call out Bob Knight when he says we should expand the field to 128 teams or not let women be on the committee? He's example 1A for why putting "basketball people" on the committee is a terrible idea (and I love Bob Knight).

Get it back in gear, Jay.