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View Full Version : What's Your Ideal Rotation?



pfrduke
01-05-2009, 05:49 PM
So far this season, the post-game discussion after pretty much every game has devolved into some kind of talk about depth and bench use. People talk past each other about depth without ever providing a finite description of what, exactly, they want, other than an amorphous "more" minutes for some players or "less" minutes for others. So let's try to put together something a little more concrete. You have Duke's roster. You have 200 minutes. Divide them up accordingly. And explain. Feel free to be as detailed with a rotation as you'd like - for example, if you advocate a more NBA-style rotation, where players sit at specified points for specified durations, make those points known. If the rotation changes based on the level of the opponent or the tightness of the contest, show those changes.

I'll start. From here out, in conference games, I'd like to see Scheyer and Singler play about 35 minutes a piece. They're our two best players, they make both the offense and the defense click, and (at least so far) they seem relatively impervious to in-game fatigue. The drop-off when one or the other is not on the court is noticeable. I'd like their rest to be strategic, as well, so that it maximizes bench time while minimizing game time. Sitting them about 30 seconds before the start of the period for the next scheduled TV timeout (for example, at the 12:30 mark) will give longer rest while missing less game time. And I want one or the other on the court at all times, unless it's fat lady time.

Next, I want Smith and Paulus sharing 40 minutes, give or take. In certain, limited circumstances, a lineup with the two together would be good. In others (injury, foul trouble), turning to Scheyer as point guard and going a little bigger would be called for. But generally, these two should trade off at point all game.

Zoubek, I would love to have play 20 on a regular basis, but I think conditioning and foul issues will keep this from happening. 17 seems more realistic. For the other 23 minutes at the 5 spot, I'd like to see Thomas take 18, and Plumlee about 5. Thomas then gets a couple of Singler's bench minutes, for 20 total.

I've used 152 minutes, meaning I have 48 left to go around. I think Henderson should get about 28 of those. I'd then give 15 to McClure and 5 to Williams.

This is the "normal" rotation, which applies in games that a) aren't UNC (or the absolute toughest opponents) or b) aren't blowouts or games against lighter opponents. In setting b), I favor cutting minutes from Kyle and Jon and distributing them, generally, among Williams, Plumlee, McClure, Thomas, and Pocius (roughly in that order).

Tim1515
01-05-2009, 06:08 PM
For me the big thing would be minutes with the starting group. Anyone who has played any sport at a pretty decent level will tell you how much different game time is over practice time. Elliot and Miles going against the same guys at practice isn't the same. Even if the intensity is good (which i can only assume is true at Duke practice) players learn each other strengths and weaknesses. They're comfortable guarding each other...etc etc. It's not "live fire".

At the same time i think Elliot, Miles, Marty and Olek playing together is counter-productive also. Greg adds a nice veteran mix to lead them but there is no pressure when they are in and they're all unstructured together.

I say in random games give Elliot 5 minutes with Nolan, Hendo, Singler and Z in the first 20 minutes. Or like last night with Z and LT in foul trouble. Throw Miles to the wolves for 5 minutes to end the half.

Those 5 minutes in the first half won't lose a game...but the time...IMO...with others doing it the "right" way is incredibly valuable.

hudlow
01-05-2009, 06:09 PM
clockwise

CameronCrazy'11
01-05-2009, 06:23 PM
I'll give my rotation that I think should be used for the tough games that go down to the wire, since those are the most important ones. Obviously in closer games, the starters can sit a little more.

Smith - 27

He's a great point guard for us, but with Scheyer and Paulus capable of running the point, I don't see any reason to overwork him unless he's the others aren't getting the job done

Paulus - 20

His shooting has subpar this season, but count me among those who think he'll bounce back. He's got experience, heart, and he really, really doesn't like to lose

Scheyer - 34

Gotta love that VO2 max. Scheyer is the most capable of playing extended minutes. And the team just runs better when Scheyer's in the game. We score more, and they score less. That simple.

Henderson - 29

Henderson usually gets a few less minutes than Singler and Scheyer. I'm guessing that's because the game he plays is so physical that he needs his rest. But really Henderson should be in as much as he feels comfortable.

Singler - 32

Pretty straightforward. He's our best player. In tight games, he should play as much as he can handle.

Zoubek - 20

I really love this guy's play. I'd be fine with him staying in until he fouls out.

Thomas - 18

Another solid, experienced player.

McClure - 14

Gotta love his defense, and his offense ain't half-bad either. Keeping the other team from scoring is just as important as scoring yourself.

Williams - 3

I'm really sold on this guy's potential. But unfortunately he's just not yet quite as good on the court as Duke's other perimeter guys. In the nail-biters, we need Smith, Scheyer, Paulus, and Henderson on the court.

Plumlee - 3

Again, I like this guy, and think he'll be great. But Duke's just not as efficient on offense or defense when he's in there

Pocius - 0

Hurts me to say this, but I just don't see what he's bringing to the table. He's not as good a defender as our other guards and he's reduced himself to a spot-up 3 point shooter (which he is not good at). Yes, he's athletic, but so is the track team, and Coach K's not playing them either.

Czyz - 0

Sorry, buddy. Just not quite ready for the big games yet.

MChambers
01-05-2009, 08:17 PM
clockwise

I'll take backspin anyday.

BlueintheFace
01-05-2009, 09:28 PM
I'll give my rotation that I think should be used for the tough games that go down to the wire, since those are the most important ones. Obviously in closer games, the starters can sit a little more.

Smith - 27

He's a great point guard for us, but with Scheyer and Paulus capable of running the point, I don't see any reason to overwork him unless he's the others aren't getting the job done

Paulus - 20

His shooting has subpar this season, but count me among those who think he'll bounce back. He's got experience, heart, and he really, really doesn't like to lose

Scheyer - 34

Gotta love that VO2 max. Scheyer is the most capable of playing extended minutes. And the team just runs better when Scheyer's in the game. We score more, and they score less. That simple.

Henderson - 29

Henderson usually gets a few less minutes than Singler and Scheyer. I'm guessing that's because the game he plays is so physical that he needs his rest. But really Henderson should be in as much as he feels comfortable.

Singler - 32

Pretty straightforward. He's our best player. In tight games, he should play as much as he can handle.

Zoubek - 20

I really love this guy's play. I'd be fine with him staying in until he fouls out.

Thomas - 18

Another solid, experienced player.

McClure - 14

Gotta love his defense, and his offense ain't half-bad either. Keeping the other team from scoring is just as important as scoring yourself.

Williams - 3

I'm really sold on this guy's potential. But unfortunately he's just not yet quite as good on the court as Duke's other perimeter guys. In the nail-biters, we need Smith, Scheyer, Paulus, and Henderson on the court.

Plumlee - 3

Again, I like this guy, and think he'll be great. But Duke's just not as efficient on offense or defense when he's in there

Pocius - 0

Hurts me to say this, but I just don't see what he's bringing to the table. He's not as good a defender as our other guards and he's reduced himself to a spot-up 3 point shooter (which he is not good at). Yes, he's athletic, but so is the track team, and Coach K's not playing them either.

Czyz - 0

Sorry, buddy. Just not quite ready for the big games yet.

Take 4 from Dave and give them to E-will and Plumlee... The rest I pretty much agree with to a number.

Some will say Singler needs more, but I say we need more out of him in march. Those little minutes add up and become big numbers by the end of the season.

jv001
01-05-2009, 09:33 PM
I'll give my rotation that I think should be used for the tough games that go down to the wire, since those are the most important ones. Obviously in closer games, the starters can sit a little more.

Smith - 27

He's a great point guard for us, but with Scheyer and Paulus capable of running the point, I don't see any reason to overwork him unless he's the others aren't getting the job done

Paulus - 20

His shooting has subpar this season, but count me among those who think he'll bounce back. He's got experience, heart, and he really, really doesn't like to lose

Scheyer - 34

Gotta love that VO2 max. Scheyer is the most capable of playing extended minutes. And the team just runs better when Scheyer's in the game. We score more, and they score less. That simple.

Henderson - 29

Henderson usually gets a few less minutes than Singler and Scheyer. I'm guessing that's because the game he plays is so physical that he needs his rest. But really Henderson should be in as much as he feels comfortable.

Singler - 32

Pretty straightforward. He's our best player. In tight games, he should play as much as he can handle.

Zoubek - 20

I really love this guy's play. I'd be fine with him staying in until he fouls out.

Thomas - 18

Another solid, experienced player.

McClure - 14

Gotta love his defense, and his offense ain't half-bad either. Keeping the other team from scoring is just as important as scoring yourself.

Williams - 3

I'm really sold on this guy's potential. But unfortunately he's just not yet quite as good on the court as Duke's other perimeter guys. In the nail-biters, we need Smith, Scheyer, Paulus, and Henderson on the court.

Plumlee - 3

Again, I like this guy, and think he'll be great. But Duke's just not as efficient on offense or defense when he's in there

Pocius - 0

Hurts me to say this, but I just don't see what he's bringing to the table. He's not as good a defender as our other guards and he's reduced himself to a spot-up 3 point shooter (which he is not good at). Yes, he's athletic, but so is the track team, and Coach K's not playing them either.

Czyz - 0

Sorry, buddy. Just not quite ready for the big games yet.

Ditto..put me down for what he just said. Go Duke!

Devilsfan
01-05-2009, 09:38 PM
I am shocked! K is playing an eight man rotation, up over 11% from the usual seven man rotation. I hope we will be that much fresher come March.
Funny though the ESPN announcers were talking about Georgetown's apparent weakness was their lack of depth and only playing an eight man rotation.

Fish80
01-06-2009, 08:58 AM
I generally like the 8 man rotation that we've developed. The only change I'd make is to reduce Singler and Scheyer's minutes to average less than 30 and use those minutes for Miles, Elliott, and Marty.

jv001
01-06-2009, 09:11 AM
I generally like the 8 man rotation that we've developed. The only change I'd make is to reduce Singler and Scheyer's minutes to average less than 30 and use those minutes for Miles, Elliott, and Marty.

I would not mind seeing Miles get some of Kyle's mins but I don't think Jon will ever wear down. He's like the energizer bunny. If Williams mins are going to go up, then I think it will be at the #2 or #3 with Jon still in the lineup. I see us needing Miles more when we have foul trouble with Lance and Brian. Just my opinion..Go Duke!