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View Full Version : MBB: Duke 92, Loyola 51 Post-Game Thread



Jumbo
12-31-2008, 05:17 PM
Happy New Year!

roywhite
12-31-2008, 05:30 PM
Real positive effort IMO. Despite not shooting 3's or FT's very well, Duke dominated a team that nearly beat NC State a couple days ago. The team defense is really starting to click. Good offense by Gerald and Zoubs in particluar; Scheyer with his usual quiet, but excellent game.

Happy New Year to Blue Devils fans!

SushiChef
12-31-2008, 05:34 PM
Any word on the status of Nolan Smith's injury?

Abraxas
12-31-2008, 05:39 PM
Described as a bruised knee on TV. From the replay, it did not look much of a slip. Perhaps, some contact while going up for the ball. Nolan seem to be icing the top of the knee or the knee cap. I have seen patellar bruises similar to what I think he had, but official confirmation is needed.

Saratoga2
12-31-2008, 06:13 PM
While it was a solid effort by the starters and the rotation of
Smith
Singler
Scheyer
Henderson
Zoubek

with very good contributions from McClure and Thomas, it does point out that others have yet to really grow their games. To me, Paulus seems to have retrogressed. The team definitely does not play as well, even with the starters in, as when either Smith or even Scheyer is running the point.

I was surprised that Thomas missed 6 for 6 free throws. I thought he had that out of his system. Is it lack of practice or confidence?

Williams shows flashes of brilliance, however, he also turns the ball over and makes in advisable moves. I am waiting for him to play a whole game as he is capable of playing.

Pocius, Plumlee and Czyz are all not playing like Div 1 players and need to step up their games.

DukieInBrasil
12-31-2008, 06:16 PM
we won huge in a game where we seemed to be un-interested in taking or making 3s, 8%? It was a bummer to see LT lapse into his "no way am I gonna make a FT tonight" mode. I sure hope Nolan recovers quickly from his fall.
Z had a great game, admittedly against a much inferior team, but he seems to have figured out how to play effectively as the (by far) tallest man on the court. Once again a great game by Singler, especially the 6 steals. I feel sad for Marty, he seems to be stressing himself out too much. Otherwise, everyone seemed to contribute something positive.

Native
12-31-2008, 06:30 PM
Jimmy Patsos is out of his freakin' mind.

geraldsneighbor
12-31-2008, 06:30 PM
Haha, gotta love Lance. Can hit a 15 foot jump shot from the right wing but can't hit a FT.

DukieBoy
12-31-2008, 06:43 PM
Haha, gotta love Lance. Can hit a 15 foot jump shot from the right wing but can't hit a FT.

Maybe he should start jumping when he shoots his free throws then :D

dukestheheat
12-31-2008, 07:03 PM
Jimmy Patsos is out of his freakin' mind.

The one thing I've noticed about Sweat-Gary-Sweat Williams over the years is this: when his team makes a poor play on the floor, he (Sweat) turns around and blesses out the BENCH PLAYERS. He yells directly at them. He looks like the old steel robot on 'Lost in Space', who'd freak out when Will Robinson got in trouble, which seemed to be every episode.

Today, I noted Patsos doing the very same thing to his team!

Scripted by Sweat, I know it, but that is totally irritating and I don't see how players take that kind of stuff. I mean, I'd look up and say 'um, coach, I'm not in the game'.

dth.

DoubleDuke Dad
12-31-2008, 07:16 PM
Maybe he should start jumping when he shoots his free throws then :D

Like Hal Greer of the Philadelphia 76s in the 1960s. Yes I am showing my age. :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hal_Greer

Ders24
12-31-2008, 07:31 PM
Jimmy Patsos is out of his freakin' mind.

100% nuts. He was putting on just as much a show on sidelines as the teams were on the court.

roywhite
12-31-2008, 07:33 PM
Like Hal Greer of the Philadelphia 76s in the 1960s. Yes I am showing my age. :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hal_Greer

Got your reference on that one, DDD... Who else on that team had an unconventional free throw motion?..... Wilt, who shot them under-handed, though not nearly as effectively as Greer (Wilt did hit 28-32 FT on his 100-pt game).

On Lance, I really like his hustle, offensive rebounding, and defense; kudos to him for his overall improvement. Seems like Lance struggles when he misses his first one or two FT's. He was in a good grove for a while from the line; hope he can that back. He gets to the line fairly often, so it's an important issue.

91devil
12-31-2008, 08:35 PM
Jimmy Patsos is out of his freakin' mind.

He did put on quite a show. I thought he might use all five of his timeouts in the first half (very Pete Gillen-ish).

On a side note, though, and this is very, very commendable, Mr. Patsos looks great - he has lost a TON of weight. Almost unrecognizable from his UMD days. Very good job to him for making the effort to improve his well-being.

Oriole Way
12-31-2008, 09:43 PM
Great performance overall, was glad to see the bench get significant minutes. Elliot showed flashes of what he can do around the rim, really hope he becomes more of a factor in conference play.

Some thoughts:

At this point, Duke is a bad 3-pt shooting team. Most guys are better than what they've shown, but this far into the season, it's more than just a trend or just a slump. Scheyer is the only guy I want consistently taking open looks. Gerald has been hitting at a nice rate and takes good looks as well - since it's not a major part of his offensive game, he doesn't attempt as many 3's as Scheyer and Singler.

I would like to see Singler essentially eliminate the 3-pt shot from his game. He is lethal driving, posting up, and creating mismatches. Settling for 3-pt jumpers is giving opponents an easy way out. I don't mind him taking one or two attempts per game when they are available and within the flow of the offense, but he needs to cut down on his 3's and Duke will be a much better team for it. He didn't shoot too many 3's tonight, and we saw a very efficient game from his as a result (8-14 FG, 0-3 from 3). Kyle taking way too many 3 pointers in the Michigan game is one of the (many) reasons we lost that game. Kyle is nothing more than an average 3-pt shooter at best at this point, so maximizing his shot selection and efficiency is critical to this team's development.

Paulus is still getting over his injuries, but he doesn't offer anything offensively now that he can't hit 3's. So, he basically offers nothing besides a good assist/turnover ratio. Any sort of injury to Nolan Smith could be fairly devastating to this team, which is why I was so concerned when he went down. Scheyer is our best PG after Nolan, which he showed today. If Nolan misses significant time in the future (aside from today's knee injury), Jon will have to man the point for a majority of the time if we have any hopes of beating good teams. I would like to see him as the primary PG if Nolan were to miss any games, not Paulus. Hopefully, Nolan will be fine and we won't have to deal with that scenario at all this season.

Zoubek was awesome tonight. Yes, Loyola is a bad team, but you have to dominate the bad teams before you can hold your own against the good big men. Zoubek has great size and good talent, and he can be a huge key for us against the quality posts of UNC, Clemson, and Wake if he can continue his improvement, stay out of foul trouble, and stay healthy.

It was nice to see Lance expand his game and display some range on some jumpers from the elbow. Again, I hope he can apply that element of his game against better opponents. I have a feeling that we will continue to see improvement from Lance, just as we have from Zoubs.

Just a few observations/opinions after a couple of beers on this New Years Eve. I hope everyone has a safe and Happy New Year!

DoubleDuke Dad
12-31-2008, 10:34 PM
Got your reference on that one, DDD... Who else on that team had an unconventional free throw motion?..... Wilt, who shot them under-handed, though not nearly as effectively as Greer (Wilt did hit 28-32 FT on his 100-pt game).

Roywhite, given Wilt’s problems with shooting free throws, it is amazing that he was able to shoot that high a percentage for the game. Of course that was the season (1961-62) that he had his highest free throw shooting percentage of .613. His career percentage was .511, with a low of .380 for the 1967-68 season.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chambwi01.html

detule
12-31-2008, 10:37 PM
Hi,

I don't mean to seem confrontational, but I disagree with most of your post.



At this point, Duke is a bad 3-pt shooting team.....


Perhaps you and I qualify "bad" differently. Sure, our stats are not up to par with years past, but I would not venture to call Duke a "bad" 3-pt shooting team. And yes, I understand the so-many-for-so-many line is "bad" - I guess what I am saying - and I am basing this on Kyle, Jon, and Greg's performance in seasons past as well as this one - is that we are a better 3-pt shooting team than what we have witnessed in several games this season. And yes, I do think that, despite the line moving back, we can still hold our players to the standard of shooting they displayed in past seasons.



I would like to see Singler essentially eliminate the 3-pt shot from his game.


I would like him to shoot that ball every single time he has an open look. I am not sure I want to elaborate on this item, since everything I have to say seems pretty obvious to me but the gist is - a big part of the skill-set that makes Singler such an offensive presence at the forward position is his abiity to draw out his defender when he is out on the perimeter in a tripple threat position.



Paulus is still getting over his injuries, but he doesn't offer anything offensively now that he can't hit 3's. So, he basically offers nothing besides a good assist/turnover ratio.


A good assist/turnover ration - I was under the impression this is a staple in the point guard's offensive package. Look, perhaps I am guilty of liking Paulus better than the average poster on this board, but I also like Smith's defensive intensity and absolutely agree with the decision to start Nolan Smith (not that K asks me what I have to say on the subject.) However to say Paulus offers nothing to this team's offense is out of line IMO. As a matter of fact, if I could switch out Paulus and Smith on offense/defense every time down the court I would proabably do it. And again, the arguments for and against this have been rehashed on this forum so many times I feel silly bringing it up - but in my opinion Paulus has the advantage in shooting, court vision and plain ol' creativity in the half-court set, while Smith has the upper hand as a ball handler/scoring off the drive. You may disagree and still take Smith, but to say Paulus brings nothing offensively to the position is, in my opinion, neglecting some of his finer qualities.



Any sort of injury to Nolan Smith could be fairly devastating to this team,


Perhaps (though devastating is a strong word), but not for what he brings on the offensive side of things. Elmore was saying this during the broadcast, but to recap - Duke would hurt because nobody on our team can match Nolan when it comes to hounding the ball. And so much of our defense depends on taking the other team's ball handlers out of their comfort zone.
On a side note, I want to give Elmore props. I feel like this season (unlike years past) he has given Duke a very fair shake.



Jon will have to man the point for a majority of the time if we have any hopes of beating good teams. I would like to see him as the primary PG if Nolan were to miss any games, not Paulus.


You do realize that Jon is quite good at the position he plays right now and that playing him at the point might make him less effective offensively. There is a give and take here, and I am not sure that I would want to trade what Jon brings to the table right now - especially since IMO, we are essentially playing without a point guard anyways: sure Smith brings the ball across the line but he is not much of a (traditional) point guard.



Just a few observations/opinions after a couple of beers on this New Years Eve. I hope everyone has a safe and Happy New Year!

Want to join in on this - Happy New Year everyone.

dw0827
12-31-2008, 10:39 PM
Who was the in-studio guy who kept harping on how small a team Duke is. I don't mind him saying that we have to play hard to win . . . any good team has to play hard to win.

But we aren't that small.

Am I wrong here?

camion
12-31-2008, 10:54 PM
Looked at superficially it appears that we are playing the same guys (Zoubek and Thomas) that we played last year and we did have have trouble inside. Those guys are now 1) a year older, 2) healthy and 3) improved over last year so the analysis is out of date. I hope they keep reading last years notes though and keep being surprised that we're pretty decent on the interior this year.

CameronCrazy'11
12-31-2008, 10:57 PM
As of right now, we are making 32.06 from three, which is about the 200th best 3P% in Div. 1. So yes, we are a bad three-point shooting team right now. It would be a little higher if you took out Pocius and William's rocks and if Paulus was up to snuff, but so far we have not been a good 3-point shooting team by any stretch.

And no, we are not a small team. ESPN needs to update last year's talking points about Duke. Either that or just be quiet.

detule
12-31-2008, 11:02 PM
As of right now, we are making 32.06 from three, which is about the 200th best 3P% in Div. 1.

Like I said, the line is bad. Thanks for the numbers though.

Bob Green
12-31-2008, 11:10 PM
ESPN needs to update last year's talking points about Duke. Either that or just be quiet.

Thankfully, the mute button is available. TV commentators are terrible.

CameronCrazy'11
12-31-2008, 11:14 PM
Thankfully, the mute button is available. TV commentators are terrible.

I liked Bobby Knight in that one game. Bilas is fine too. Other than that...

wisteria
01-01-2009, 12:18 AM
I'm starting to believe that the KenPom's score predictions are really accurate. (prediction 92-58, real score 92-51)

dukelifer
01-01-2009, 07:46 AM
Duke was going to win this game easily but they could have played a sloppy game after the layoff - but they did not. Instead, it was a game marked with a lot of good team offense -good screens, nice patience looking for the open man and a few times passing up a three for an easier two. Scheyer and Singler continue to play almost effortless, high level basketball. Zoubek is playing extremely well right now. Sure he was bigger than anyone else but last year he would have sat on the bench because he could not take advantage of that size. Right now he is playing with poise. He is taking his time, gathering himself and making smart basketball plays. Now his teammates are looking for him. His confidence is growing with every game. Thomas is also playing well- very active around the hoop and now stepping out to hit a few jumpers. I am very interested in seeing them on Sunday against a league opponent. If they continue to show the same sort of poise, Duke will be a much different team going forward. I continue to be concerned about Duke's three point shooting. They can certainly hit them when they get on streaks- as they showed against Xavier but no one on the team is a "specialist". Maybe this is what you get when you recruit versatile players- but still. They will need that shot at some point in the season. The hope is that Paulus can get back in a groove - but right now, Duke is just so-so. At some level, this is helping Duke develop a better inside and midrange game- so the lack of consistent three point shooting is not hurting too much. The sharing of the ball is great to see- and hopefully this can continue against teams in the league.

Has G turned a corner? This is a few high level games in a row. Some of his scoring came as a result of great passes from Scheyer. If his teammates can find him in good scoring positions around the hoop, he can easily get 6-8 more easy points per game. League play starts soon and it is a whole new season. We will know much more about this team after the next couple of weeks.

sandinmyshoes
01-01-2009, 08:06 AM
Made a small quick team look slow and disorganized. That was my favorite take from the game. Overall an excellent post holiday break game by the Devils.

moonpie23
01-01-2009, 08:11 AM
duke opponents do NOT want to see Zoeubs getting double doubles....

SMO
01-01-2009, 08:46 AM
Who was the in-studio guy who kept harping on how small a team Duke is. I don't mind him saying that we have to play hard to win . . . any good team has to play hard to win.

But we aren't that small.

Am I wrong here?

It was Jimmy Dykes and he must have been reading last year's notes. It's strange that some analysts don't keep up with the teams they cover. All he needs to do is look at the roster showing 5 guys 6'8" or taller. That's similar to many other top programs. It was bizarre that he referred to Duke as "so small".

sandinmyshoes
01-01-2009, 09:19 AM
Jimmy Dykes looks the part of a very good studio analyst. Then he opens his mouth and you would have to believe he's channeling the spirit of Larry the clueless water cooler guy.

OZZIE4DUKE
01-01-2009, 09:23 AM
Zoubek is playing extremely well right now. Sure he was bigger than anyone else but last year he would have sat on the bench because he could not take advantage of that size. Right now he is playing with poise. He is taking his time, gathering himself and making smart basketball plays. Now his teammates are looking for him. His confidence is growing with every game.

Zoubek's first basket of the game, when he caught the pass about 8 feet from the basket and made a move to the basket (yes, he did put the ball on the floor but it was the right play) was one of the highlights of the game. OK, he did wrap his inside arm around the defender and could have been called for a foul, but if the refs give him that play (and many MANY big men get that play without a foul called), Zoubs can be tremendous.

roywhite
01-01-2009, 09:26 AM
It was Jimmy Dykes and he must have been reading last year's notes. It's strange that some analysts don't keep up with the teams they cover. All he needs to do is look at the roster showing 5 guys 6'8" or taller. That's similar to many other top programs. It was bizarre that he referred to Duke as "so small".

Seems to me that he's actually worked at least one of our games. Evidently he didn't see Zoubs, Lance, Kyle with additional weight and strength, etc, etc.

MChambers
01-01-2009, 10:16 AM
Seems to me that he's actually worked at least one of our games. Evidently he didn't see Zoubs, Lance, Kyle with additional weight and strength, etc, etc.

Dykes worked the Duquesne game. I thought he was terrible. Really down on the talent level of the Duke players.

jv001
01-01-2009, 11:28 AM
Jimmy Patsos is out of his freakin' mind.

He must have gotten that from Gary at MD. I just didn't get the yelling at the first person he turned and saw on the bench.

Other notes: 1. Jon can run the point very well. Right now better than Greg because Greg's not at his best just yet. 2. McClure is really coming along. He looks more comfortable and not thinking as much, just reacting. 3. We miss Nolan when he is not runing the team even though Jon is doing well at the point. However we need him at shooting guard. 4. Gerald's stepped up lately and we needed that. 5. Zoubs is now just another good player in our rotation and not a project. Go big Guy! 6.Three point shooting is not there yet. 7. I'm glad ACC play is coming up so we can really see where we are at this point in time. Go Duke!

jv001
01-01-2009, 11:30 AM
Yeh I forgot. I told you Len Elmore sucks as an announcer. He is by far the worst Duke hater of all the announcers. What do you expect form a Twerp. Go Duke!

godukerocks
01-01-2009, 11:48 AM
Yeh I forgot. I told you Len Elmore sucks as an announcer. He is by far the worst Duke hater of all the announcers. What do you expect form a Twerp. Go Duke!

He is not the "worst Duke hater" of all the announcers, nor do I think he "sucks". In fact, I think he's been doing a solid job this year.

jv001
01-01-2009, 11:56 AM
He is not the "worst Duke hater" of all the announcers, nor do I think he "sucks". In fact, I think he's been doing a solid job this year.

your opinion not mine. That's what makes this site so great. Go Duke!

Devilsfan
01-01-2009, 11:58 AM
I believe McClure had seven rebounds, a couple of steals and four points. He's a solid player, displays Senior leadership and never gets much praise from the staff, imo. If Plumlee or Marty could learn to play just half the D Dave does they would become very valuable to this team.

lifelongdevil
01-01-2009, 12:04 PM
i cant agree more with your comment about elmore. he was at his dukehating finest yesterday

jv001
01-01-2009, 12:09 PM
i cant agree more with your comment about elmore. he was at his dukehating finest yesterday

See I knew I was correct. Thanks lifelongdevil and Go Duke!

dukelifer
01-01-2009, 12:33 PM
He is not the "worst Duke hater" of all the announcers, nor do I think he "sucks". In fact, I think he's been doing a solid job this year.

Maybe it is my imagination, but Duke seems to play very well when he announces-so I actually enjoy the fact that he is on the air.

RainingThrees
01-01-2009, 12:36 PM
My favorite part of the game was that we got all our production inside the paint and still got a blow-out. We are not a one-dimensional team!!!

grossbus
01-01-2009, 12:58 PM
"My favorite part of the game was that we got all our production inside the paint and still got a blow-out. We are not a one-dimensional team!!!"

they were tiny.

BlueintheFace
01-01-2009, 01:41 PM
My favorite play(s) of the game came from Jon and G.

The first play was when Jon drove into the crease at the foul line, drew some defenders and found G with the no look pass under the basket for the dunk.

The second play was when G put the ball on the floor on the left wing, stopped, jumped, and found Dave cutting through the lane for the layup.

Duke is at it's very best when Jon and G find creases to drive in to and create for others (spot shooters behind the arc or cutters) or finish at the rim. Jon is very good at this, but when G can use his athleticism to create for others... ohh boy.

Papa John
01-01-2009, 02:24 PM
Yeh I forgot. I told you Len Elmore sucks as an announcer. He is by far the worst Duke hater of all the announcers. What do you expect form a Twerp. Go Duke!

Though I disagree that Elmore "sucks"--I actually think he provides some very insightful commentary at times--I do agree that he demonstrates a very clear anti-Duke bias, and it was plainly apparent last night. I was chuckling whenever he dropped a comment about how he doesn't think we're a top-4 team right now and how we're not among the teams he thinks can beat the Tar Heels, and thought his supporting arguments for these statements were quite tepid and weak. Though I agree that UNC is clearly the best team in the nation right now, I also think it's quite ridiculous to suggest that we're not one of the handful of teams that can beat the Heels, and also think it's quite ridiculous to suggest that we don't deserve our top-5 ranking [soon to be top-4 once again] right now. Had he provided any semblance of a viable argument for either statement, I might give him a pass, but he failed to do so, thus providing another Elmore comedy moment.

Jarhead
01-01-2009, 02:45 PM
...and also think it's quite ridiculous to suggest that we don't deserve our top-5 ranking [soon to be top-4 once again]... Careful with the woofing, PJ. We'll have to beat Va Tech on Sunday to earn that vote. Don't want to disturb the karma.

ricks68
01-01-2009, 02:49 PM
When listening to Coach K's postgame dialogue, I thought I heard him say that lance had a bad ankle. I think he said it happened in practice a few days ago. Did anyone else hear that, or did I have to much to drink last night? If so, either that's what might have affected his free throw accuracy last night, or I need to lay off the scotch.

When sober, however, I have been following Lance's changes very closely in his free throwing style since the beginning of the year. I noticed that he did very well after changing the launch angle of his shot resulting in considerably "more air" under the shot. Last night, he did not do that.

Anyone else have comments yea or nay on those observations?

ricks

stickdog
01-01-2009, 02:52 PM
Average Minutes-Weighted Height (http://www.kenpom.com/height.php?s=SizeRank&y=2009)

So far this season, Duke (77.7 inches) is 36th of 343 D1 teams in this measurement. Last season, Duke was 95th (77.0 inches) of 341 D1 teams, so Duke is definitely giving more minutes to tall players this season.

In effective height (in which the height of the just the two tallest players on the court at any time is averaged), the difference between last season's and this season's team is even more pronounced. So far this season, Duke is 44th (80.4 inches) of 343 D1 teams in effective height. Last season, Duke was 198th (79.2 inches) of 341 D1 teams in effective height.

ricks68
01-01-2009, 02:53 PM
O.K. What has the number 133 have to do with Grant Hill? My last post changed me to a "Grant Hill" (Which, of course, no one will see again on another post from me as this new post number will wipe it out.)

ricks

Kishiznit
01-01-2009, 03:05 PM
He must have gotten that from Gary at MD. I just didn't get the yelling at the first person he turned and saw on the bench.

Other notes: 1. Jon can run the point very well. Right now better than Greg because Greg's not at his best just yet. 2. McClure is really coming along. He looks more comfortable and not thinking as much, just reacting. 3. We miss Nolan when he is not runing the team even though Jon is doing well at the point. However we need him at shooting guard. 4. Gerald's stepped up lately and we needed that. 5. Zoubs is now just another good player in our rotation and not a project. Go big Guy! 6.Three point shooting is not there yet. 7. I'm glad ACC play is coming up so we can really see where we are at this point in time. Go Duke!

The success of our season relies on Nolan and/or Greg at point...not Jon. It would be nice to see EWil start at 2 with Jon coming off the bench for a spark but it is not happening now. Jon has an excellent nose for the ball and should always be in a position to take advantage of this talent with rebounding. At point, he is too far from the basket and a liability on the defenisve side covering true point guards.

Devil in the Blue Dress
01-01-2009, 04:05 PM
O.K. What has the number 133 have to do with Grant Hill? My last post changed me to a "Grant Hill" (Which, of course, no one will see again on another post from me as this new post number will wipe it out.)

ricks
Maybe the idea is that 133 includes Grant's number (33).

bird
01-01-2009, 04:06 PM
I'm starting to believe that the KenPom's score predictions are really accurate. (prediction 92-58, real score 92-51)

Then I am sure you are very happy to see that the only game he has us as underdogs the rest of the season is @ UNC.

http://kenpom.com/sked.php?y=2009&team=Duke&t=p

mapei
01-01-2009, 04:10 PM
I was at the game, thanks to some supremely appreciated ticket-swapping and hosting from great people on this board (you know who you are - thanks!). It wasn't the most exciting of games, due to the vast difference in talent levels between the two teams, but I had a great time in only my third visit to Cameron.

Scheyer in my opinion is the most underrated player in the country - his passing last night was amazing, and he has great court sense and leadership. Agree with everyone else about Zoubs. Kyle's 20 points actually seemed sort of quiet to me. I don't remember many of them. Team defense was outstanding. Loved the press and traps.

On the downside, FT shooting by the bench is pretty horrible, 3-pt shooting was pretty bad (as others have noted), there were more turnovers than I would like, and I agree that Greg seems to have regressed. Maybe he's not 100%, but it seems like we have been saying "but he's not 100%" for just about his whole career. He's played better in the past. I still like his leadership and passing.

Every team has flaws, so none of these things need be major. We'll know a lot more in a couple of weeks of ACC play.

FireOgilvie
01-01-2009, 04:18 PM
O.K. What has the number 133 have to do with Grant Hill? My last post changed me to a "Grant Hill" (Which, of course, no one will see again on another post from me as this new post number will wipe it out.)

ricks

Grant Hill had 133 blocked shots in his Duke career.

OZZIE4DUKE
01-01-2009, 04:31 PM
Grant Hill had 133 blocked shots in his Duke career.

I thought 133 was his vertical leap in inches on the dunk his freshman year.:)

Jumbo
01-01-2009, 04:32 PM
The success of our season relies on Nolan and/or Greg at point...not Jon. It would be nice to see EWil start at 2 with Jon coming off the bench for a spark but it is not happening now. Jon has an excellent nose for the ball and should always be in a position to take advantage of this talent with rebounding. At point, he is too far from the basket and a liability on the defenisve side covering true point guards.

Huh? You want our second-best player coming off the bench for a "spark," and a freshman who has shown nothing resembling Scheyer's ability starting? Actually, "huh" doesn't cut it. What on earth are you talking about?

Papa John
01-01-2009, 04:41 PM
The success of our season relies on Nolan and/or Greg at point...not Jon. It would be nice to see EWil start at 2 with Jon coming off the bench for a spark but it is not happening now. Jon has an excellent nose for the ball and should always be in a position to take advantage of this talent with rebounding. At point, he is too far from the basket and a liability on the defenisve side covering true point guards.

Disagree on a number of points... First of all, E-mail is not ready to start by any stretch of the imagination--he's far too sloppy with the ball, which will become far more obvious when we begin ACC play. He has great potential, but a lot of growing to do...

The idea of not starting Scheyer is, to me, quite insane. He's clearly, hands down, one of our three best players, so why you would want to start him on the bench is beyond me...

And the success of this team, in my opinion, hinges most on our two-headed center of Zoubek/Thomas and on Henderson realizing what everyone else in the country already knows--that he's one of the 5 best talents in the college game... Priority number three on the list is Nolan's health so that we can come at teams with a 1-2, different look punch of Nolan and Greg...

In any event, this team is already fun to watch, and will continue to be as the season progresses...

Also... Point well taken, Jarhead! Mea culpa to the Weauxgods!

Kishiznit
01-01-2009, 04:52 PM
Huh? You want our second-best player coming off the bench for a "spark," and a freshman who has shown nothing resembling Scheyer's ability starting? Actually, "huh" doesn't cut it. What on earth are you talking about?

I wanted to see EWill start at the beginning of the year but note my comment "it is not happening now"....I like Jon coming off the bench. It is not always important to start the game but finish it.

You missed my point of Jon not being a point guard.

Jumbo
01-01-2009, 05:00 PM
I wanted to see EWill start at the beginning of the year but note my comment "it is not happening now"....I like Jon coming off the bench. It is not always important to start the game but finish it.

You missed my point of Jon not being a point guard.

I didn't miss your point about Jon not being a point guard. That just wasn't the point I chose to answer. I was more concerned by why you want him coming off the bench, which makes absolutely no sense.

SupaDave
01-01-2009, 05:17 PM
You missed my point of Jon not being a point guard.

Ok. Please elaborate. Duke has had some very good point guard rebounders and Jon can handle the point quite well so I think I'm missing your point.

RainingThrees
01-01-2009, 05:17 PM
Jon helps keep our offense spread because teams look for him to shoot and get surprised by his ability to drive into the lane. Right now Elliot's 3 point shot isn't the best and teams will play him only for the drive.

ricks68
01-01-2009, 05:18 PM
Grant Hill had 133 blocked shots in his Duke career.


Thanks. I thought that's what it might be.

ricks

Kishiznit
01-01-2009, 05:37 PM
Ok. Please elaborate. Duke has had some very good point guard rebounders and Jon can handle the point quite well so I think I'm missing your point.

Jon would be a liability on the defensive side of the ball guarding opposing point guards 25' from the basket. I really enjoy watching Jon on the floor but he needs to be playing the 2 or 3 - not the point.

should_be_working
01-01-2009, 05:56 PM
Just once I would like to watch a Duke game and not hear the words "tarheels" or "north carolina". I don't care who can beat UNC, I don't care how our talant stacks up against UNC (at least while i'm watching Duke play someone else) and I don't care who thinks that UNC can run the table. It seems as if we've played UNC every game this year, considering how much they are talked about during our games.
Duke played well, bring on the ACC.
That is all.

Newton_14
01-01-2009, 06:11 PM
Jon Scheyer is the glue that holds this team together and the main playmaker, as well as one of the better defenders, rebounders, and 3-point shooters on this team. I for one would go into shock if he were not starting.

E-Will is a great talent, but currently in his rightful spot of 9th in the main rotation. How he goes from 9th to starting over Jon is beyond me....

geraldsneighbor
01-01-2009, 06:20 PM
If Nolan is limited in minutes Sunday, does Greg move into the starting role or would Jon become the starting PG? I really don't know who would be the other guy in the line-up. Maybe McClure, but I have no clue.

Newton_14
01-01-2009, 06:56 PM
If Nolan is limited in minutes Sunday, does Greg move into the starting role or would Jon become the starting PG? I really don't know who would be the other guy in the line-up. Maybe McClure, but I have no clue.

I think K would start with plugging Greg into Nolan's spot to begin with and adjust accordingly depending on how it goes.

If not that, my other guess would be Jon shifts to the point and McClure starts...

Hopefully it is a mute point and Nolan is able to play his normal minutes...

diveonthefloor
01-01-2009, 09:03 PM
The speculation on PG starter for this Sunday will be moot.

Nolan is fine.

BTW although Jon probably doesn't have the quickness to guard most ACC PGs, he sure looks good offensively as the "point 2" or whatever K might call him (remember when Grant Hill played "point forward"?) I just like seeing the ball in Jon's hands as we begin to run an offensive set. He has great vision, hoops IQ, and passing ability.

Regarding earlier Email comments, Elliot is progressing well for a freshman. His amount of minutes are appropriate for his stage of development, and will grow as his development continues. Elliot is also a gifted passer with great floor vision. And obviously a great slasher. He is slowly getting used to being defended by players with quick hands and will hopefully cut down on his turnovers as he gets more floor time.

I'm out.

geraldsneighbor
01-01-2009, 09:16 PM
Yeah, Email reminds me alot of G with his athleticism. G played limited minutes for several reasons his freshmen year, and one was how raw he was. Email will be fine, but I'm not expecting an overnight transition, but something that will begin to show hopefully by next year.

roywhite
01-01-2009, 09:34 PM
Yeah, Email reminds me alot of G with his athleticism. G played limited minutes for several reasons his freshmen year, and one was how raw he was. Email will be fine, but I'm not expecting an overnight transition, but something that will begin to show hopefully by next year.

Agree; Email shows flashes in his rebounding, his ability to slash toward the basket and to use his quickness and leaping ability to get his shot off; he also can be a very good man-to-man defender.

IMO the main areas for improvement are tightening up his "handle" and working hard on his shooting. His adjustment to ACC play is just a normal thing that will take time, experience, and perhaps some additional weight and strength. He should be a very good player within a year or two.

DukieInBrasil
01-02-2009, 08:46 AM
Once upon a time i thought it would be wise to have Jon do his 6th man gig again this year. No more, he is far too good to be coming off the bench under normal conditions. This team needs him to start and needs for him to handle the ball quite a bit. He doesn´t need to be "the" PG nor guard the opposing PG. As mentioned by others, he can be used very effectively as a 2guard PG. Any talk of him being benched for EWill needs to be cut off at the knees. EWill has had some nice games this year, usually against opponents of lesser quality. I am sure that he will grow and develop as a player and do some good things for this team, this year included. He is not ready to start, and i am willing to bet that he would tell you that if you asked him (i have not asked him that, just to clarify).

OZZIE4DUKE
01-02-2009, 09:03 AM
Just once I would like to watch a Duke game and not hear the words "tarheels" or "north carolina". I don't care who can beat UNC, I don't care how our talant stacks up against UNC (at least while i'm watching Duke play someone else) and I don't care who thinks that UNC can run the table. It seems as if we've played UNC every game this year, considering how much they are talked about during our games.
Duke played well, bring on the ACC.
That is all.

That's what happens when you are part of the #1 rivalry in college sports. Enjoy it rather than fight it.

davekay1971
01-02-2009, 09:08 AM
I wanted to see EWill start at the beginning of the year but note my comment "it is not happening now"....I like Jon coming off the bench. It is not always important to start the game but finish it.

You missed my point of Jon not being a point guard.

This isn't going to end well...

jv001
01-02-2009, 10:06 AM
Outside of Kyle Singler, Jon is the most important member of this years team. He is one of the best players not only on our team, he is one of the best players in the country. Even when is shot if a little off, he does so much to help us win. He does not need to come off the bench. E-Will is a player with lots of potential but has a way to go to be the point guard for Duke. His handle is not what it should be and he has to work on his shot. He can be a valuable defender by guarding the opposing point guard when Nolan is off the court, but can't run the team like Jon can. Nolan will play. Go Duke!

EarlJam
01-02-2009, 12:30 PM
It was a bummer to see LT lapse into his "no way am I gonna make a FT tonight" mode.

Indeed. At least when he goes into that mode he misses them so badly that the ball slams into the rim with such force it often ricochets so hard that the opponents favorable positioning in the lane is often cancelled out. Kind of like a jump ball.

I believe it is fully a confidence thing and that during the tourney (ACC and NCAA) this will be a huge liability. That said, his play on the floor is so very much needed and he often delivers. We'll need Lance for 90 percent of games, but in the last minute or two of a close one, he need not touch the ball, unless it's for a "put back."

-EarlJam

gofurman
01-02-2009, 12:36 PM
The speculation on PG starter for this Sunday will be moot.

Nolan is fine.

BTW although Jon probably doesn't have the quickness to guard most ACC PGs, he sure looks good offensively as the "point 2" or whatever K might call him (remember when Grant Hill played "point forward"?) I just like seeing the ball in Jon's hands as we begin to run an offensive set. He has great vision, hoops IQ, and passing ability.

Regarding earlier Email comments, Elliot is progressing well for a freshman. His amount of minutes are appropriate for his stage of development, and will grow as his development continues. Elliot is also a gifted passer with great floor vision. And obviously a great slasher. He is slowly getting used to being defended by players with quick hands and will hopefully cut down on his turnovers as he gets more floor time.

I'm out.


So we are Sure Nolan is OK? I too think he is very key, esp with Paulus hurt.

Kishiznit
01-02-2009, 01:24 PM
Outside of Kyle Singler, Jon is the most important member of this years team. He is one of the best players not only on our team, he is one of the best players in the country. Even when is shot if a little off, he does so much to help us win. He does not need to come off the bench. E-Will is a player with lots of potential but has a way to go to be the point guard for Duke. His handle is not what it should be and he has to work on his shot. He can be a valuable defender by guarding the opposing point guard when Nolan is off the court, but can't run the team like Jon can. Nolan will play. Go Duke!

Did you mean to say conference rather than country?

jv001
01-02-2009, 01:55 PM
Did you mean to say conference rather than country?

IMO which means nothing, Jon is one of the better players in the country. He can defend, handle the ball, rebound, shoot from 3, drive to the basket, he's tall and is hard to pass over and most of all he understands the game. I am not saying he is a human highlight reel but he get's the job done. We are lucky to have him. Go Duke!

Kishiznit
01-02-2009, 01:59 PM
IMO which means nothing, Jon is one of the better players in the country. He can defend, handle the ball, rebound, shoot from 3, drive to the basket, he's tall and is hard to pass over and most of all he understands the game. I am not saying he is a human highlight reel but he get's the job done. We are lucky to have him. Go Duke!

I agree - we are lucky to have him....go Duke!!

should_be_working
01-02-2009, 04:17 PM
That's what happens when you are part of the #1 rivalry in college sports. Enjoy it rather than fight it.

Oh i get talking about Duke/UNC, it just seems to be getting a bit much this season. And a lot of it isn't even talking about how Duke and UNC match up, rather just UNC in general, which makes my ears hurt. It might just be me, but there seems to be much more talk about UNC this season, which is probably because they are apparently "the team to beat" (so i hear ;))

RainingThrees
01-02-2009, 04:49 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVPp83cbBH8

ricks68
01-02-2009, 06:12 PM
I think that those of us that didn't think Len Elmore is so bad need to watch this latest video and have a listen. Is this guy being paid to just ignore the game on the floor, or what??? I was so involved with the game while it was originally being played that I fortunately didn't notice Elmore's silly uninvolved banter.

These were a fantastic series of plays that involved tremendous effort and numerous skills by different individuals in sequence to pull each of them off. I noted that as the plays evolved during the game. I have trouble comprehending how a commentator could have ignored what was unfolding right in front of him.:confused: Boy, if there was a way I could occupy his seat instead of having it wasted on such an inept individual, I'd fly to Durham anytime.

ricks

sagegrouse
01-02-2009, 06:36 PM
I think that those of us that didn't think Len Elmore is so bad need to watch this latest video and have a listen. Is this guy being paid to just ignore the game on the floor, or what??? I was so involved with the game while it was originally being played that I fortunately didn't notice Elmore's silly uninvolved banter.

These were a fantastic series of plays that involved tremendous effort and numerous skills by different individuals in sequence to pull each of them off. I noted that as the plays evolved during the game. I have trouble comprehending how a commentator could have ignored what was unfolding right in front of him.:confused: Boy, if there was a way I could occupy his seat instead of having it wasted on such an inept individual, I'd fly to Durham anytime.

ricks

Len Elmore ranks up there with Billy Packer and Johnny Miller as the biggest pills on TV. Why is he so negative? Basketball is a game -- listen to Bill Raftery, who treats it like everyone should be having fun.

sagegrouse

'Miller may be the worst. About a year after Tiger Woods completed the Tiger Slam (four majors in a row), Miller made headlines by saying that Tiger had slipped and would never again be as good as he was in the past. What a negative blowhard! But, of course, Tiger has remained the best player on tour ever since then. Even in 2008, when Tiger was only able to play six tournaments, he won four.'

devildeac
01-02-2009, 11:05 PM
I thought 133 was his vertical leap in inches on the dunk his freshman year.:)

I thought it was the # of pastrami sammiches you've had in your post-Duke career;).

Seriously, I think goduke.statsgeek.com (or something close to that) is the reference we all check for our posting milestones.

devildeac
01-02-2009, 11:10 PM
The speculation on PG starter for this Sunday will be moot.

Nolan is fine.

BTW although Jon probably doesn't have the quickness to guard most ACC PGs, he sure looks good offensively as the "point 2" or whatever K might call him (remember when Grant Hill played "point forward"?) I just like seeing the ball in Jon's hands as we begin to run an offensive set. He has great vision, hoops IQ, and passing ability.

Regarding earlier Email comments, Elliot is progressing well for a freshman. His amount of minutes are appropriate for his stage of development, and will grow as his development continues. Elliot is also a gifted passer with great floor vision. And obviously a great slasher. He is slowly getting used to being defended by players with quick hands and will hopefully cut down on his turnovers as he gets more floor time.

I'm out.

I remember when Hurley got hurt and K just smiled and said, "my point guard just grew 8 inches," as he "re-designed" the offense and moved Grant Hill to that position, in addition to Kenny Blakeney, IIRC.

jv001
01-03-2009, 12:00 PM
Len Elmore ranks up there with Billy Packer and Johnny Miller as the biggest pills on TV. Why is he so negative? Basketball is a game -- listen to Bill Raftery, who treats it like everyone should be having fun.

sagegrouse

'Miller may be the worst. About a year after Tiger Woods completed the Tiger Slam (four majors in a row), Miller made headlines by saying that Tiger had slipped and would never again be as good as he was in the past. What a negative blowhard! But, of course, Tiger has remained the best player on tour ever since then. Even in 2008, when Tiger was only able to play six tournaments, he won four.'

Yes and I remember when Johnny was in his prime and playing his best golf. He made the statement that he would over take Jack Nicklaus as the # 1 golfer or something to that effect. Well we all know how that turned out. Not that Johnny wasn't a good golfer, but he was no Nicklaus.