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View Full Version : Duke 99, UNC-Asheville 56 Post-Game Thread



RainingThrees
12-17-2008, 09:48 PM
Thoughts on the game? Kyle looked good as usual, G had a good game and gave me at least what I expected from him this season, Greg had his best game off the bench and Zoubek looked strong with the tip-ins around the basket. The pressure d looked good and I loved that steal Kyle had at about half-court, took it right out of the guys hands.

Karl Beem
12-17-2008, 09:50 PM
A good all-around performance. Asheville hung in there for awhile by making quite a few difficult shots.

FerryFor50
12-17-2008, 09:57 PM
Elliott Williams can jump out of the gym. I think he has potential to be a better athlete than Henderson. Plus he seems to have a good knack for rebounding the ball.

Bob Green
12-17-2008, 09:58 PM
Zoubek continues to show steady progress. He is moving well, catching and delivering passes, and working hard on the boards. He will be a key in upcoming games against tougher teams.

The1Bluedevil
12-17-2008, 10:08 PM
Elliott Williams can jump out of the gym. I think he has potential to be a better athlete than Henderson. Plus he seems to have a good knack for rebounding the ball.

He obviously has the talent to be special but I hope he continues to improve his perimeter shot. He really is struggling to shoot the ball.

FerryFor50
12-17-2008, 10:13 PM
He obviously has the talent to be special but I hope he continues to improve his perimeter shot. He really is struggling to shoot the ball.

Henderson doesn't really shoot well either. But that doesn't stop him from being super valuable. :)

Saratoga2
12-17-2008, 10:15 PM
This was a good game to see the subs in action and to gage how well they can do. Clearly we were going to win so there was little risk in giving them a lot of PT. I don't think it was a message by coach K to the starters, just a realization that he could play everyone.

I have been hoping to see more of Williams and he got good PT tonight. While he is very athletic and has a great upside, he is still not too secure with his passes and gets himself into trouble. He can finish well and he rebounded well. Clearly he needs more polish, but you could have said the same thing about Smith last year, and look at the progress he has made.

Plumlee also got quite a bit of PT and seemed to acquit himself very well. He seemed more assertive tonight and you can see his progress.

Pocius has a lot of athletic ability but really did not do a lot out there, for instance missing 4 for 4 from 3.

Czyz got very little PT (3 minutes) and still doesn't look ready to compete at this level. He has the physical gifts so maybe he can come around with more time in practice.


As far as the game is concerned, our starters playing together were clearly capable of blowing them out anytime they wanted. Henderson missed his 3's but the rest his at an excellent clip. Our turnovers were surprising. You expect that from the freshmen but we had a few from upperclassmen that were silly passes. Paulus still does that at least once a game.

One other observation is that Thomas plays very hard, but it seems to me he runs himself out of position. In a perfect world you would have Scheyer's basketball sense in Thomas's body.

The real test will be Saturday. We will have serious trouble scoring against the Xavier defense, which is intense. Our defense will have to do a good job of preventing fast breaks and hold our own on the boards. I expect the score to be under 75 for both teams.

RainingThrees
12-17-2008, 10:17 PM
Good point FerryFor50, G is a pretty decent post up guard, but being able to shoot would help his game a lot. I remember before the injury he had a consistent 15 footer which he could spot up, or turn around and fade with. I think he lost it after the surgery and I hope he can continue to develop it.

FireOgilvie
12-17-2008, 10:18 PM
Henderson doesn't really shoot well either. But that doesn't stop him from being super valuable. :)

E-Will is 1-8 from beyond the arc this year. A lot of those were airballs. He's shooting 35% overall. He does rebound like a champ though.

RainingThrees
12-17-2008, 10:18 PM
This was a good game to see the subs in action and to gage how well they can do. Clearly we were going to win so there was little risk in giving them a lot of PT. I don't think it was a message by coach K to the starters, just a realization that he could play everyone.

I have been hoping to see more of Williams and he got good PT tonight. While he is very athletic and has a great upside, he is still not too secure with his passes and gets himself into trouble. He can finish well and he rebounded well. Clearly he needs more polish, but you could have said the same thing about Smith last year, and look at the progress he has made.

Plumlee also got quite a bit of PT and seemed to acquit himself very well. He seemed more assertive tonight and you can see his progress.

Pocius has a lot of athletic ability but really did not do a lot out there, for instance missing 4 for 4 from 3.

Czyz got very little PT (3 minutes) and still doesn't look ready to compete at this level. He has the physical gifts so maybe he can come around with more time in practice.


As far as the game is concerned, our starters playing together were clearly capable of blowing them out anytime they wanted. Henderson missed his 3's but the rest his at an excellent clip. Our turnovers were surprising. You expect that from the freshmen but we had a few from upperclassmen that were silly passes. Paulus still does that at least once a game.

One other observation is that Thomas plays very hard, but it seems to me he runs himself out of position. In a perfect world you would have Scheyer's basketball sense in Thomas's body.

The real test will be Saturday. We will have serious trouble scoring against the Xavier defense, which is intense. Our defense will have to do a good job of preventing fast breaks and hold our own on the boards. I expect the score to be under 75 for both teams.

Kinda like the Purdue game?

The1Bluedevil
12-17-2008, 10:34 PM
I really enjoy listening to Terry Gannon announce games. He knows the game and makes great points without having to be heard every 10 seconds like other announcers. I wish he was not stuck doing WCC Monday midnight games and do games where having good announcers makes the game more enjoyable. I sure hope Nantz is not doing the game Saturday.

kmspeaks
12-17-2008, 10:38 PM
Zoubek continues to show steady progress. He is moving well, catching and delivering passes, and working hard on the boards. He will be a key in upcoming games against tougher teams.

I have to agree. Len Elmore pointed out that maybe Greg Zoubek just needs to gain some confidence after all his injuries. Perhaps that is the key to Z's emergence, he needs to play as Greg and not Brian ;):D

orrnot
12-17-2008, 10:46 PM
But if you're gonna slip up, do so by bringing to mind Duke's first championship class! That's deep, Len, deep.

balkan boy
12-17-2008, 10:50 PM
Just back from the game, had seats right in front of the grad students thanks to my sister who works for Duke Healthcare.

The thing I was most impressed about was the aggressiveness of Singler and Williams. Several times Singler just ripped the ball out of another Duke player's hands. The skinny Williams is not afraid to mix it up with the big boys and has a knack for being in the right spot when the ball comes off the rim.

BB

EarlJam
12-17-2008, 11:04 PM
Zoubek continues to show steady progress. He is moving well, catching and delivering passes, and working hard on the boards. He will be a key in upcoming games against tougher teams.

I just do NOT for the life of me understand how someone with that size and strength can't "man up" more. Throw himself around. Get a nasty streak.

I love Zoubek but it kills me to see someone his size play so soft. He's gotten better, but he can do so much more. He's no Marty Nessley. He's got skills and tons of potential. We need him and will need him.

But my goodness man! Get a little mean down low!

I say this recognizing his great improvement and great game tonight. I'm a fan.

-EarlJam

CameronCrazy'11
12-17-2008, 11:24 PM
Some general observations:

Zouthomlee, the three-headed post monster, got 25 points and 12 boards in 41 minutes. Suddenly our post play is looking fairly productive.

Singler, Smith, Paulus, and Scheyer all over 50% from deep. Nice!

Pocius is not as good a 3-point shooter as he thinks he is, and needs to stop putting up so many 3's. Go inside, young man!

Elliot Williams: 8 rebounds in 20 minutes? Wow! A guard who rebounds like a forward, plays stifling defense, and looks great driving to the basket. Is it just me, or is Email the next Demarc?

Diddy
12-17-2008, 11:26 PM
I just do NOT for the life of me understand how someone with that size and strength can't "man up" more. Throw himself around. Get a nasty streak.

I love Zoubek but it kills me to see someone his size play so soft. He's gotten better, but he can do so much more. He's no Marty Nessley. He's got skills and tons of potential. We need him and will need him.

But my goodness man! Get a little mean down low!

I say this recognizing his great improvement and great game tonight. I'm a fan.

-EarlJam

Brian HAS really improved, especially from what I though he would give us. That said, he has way too many layups for a 7-1 guy. If he were throwing a few of those down, nasty style, it would make a world of difference in perception, even if the overall numbers stayed the same.

E-Will is a great athlete, but he is not in G's class just yet. G probably outweighs him by 20-40lbs. It makes a huge difference. With E-Will, the main thought is how good he will be next year, and how great thereafter. A little weight lifting, some ball handling drills, some shooting reps, and guarding Nolan and Jon in practice will do wonders for him.

RainingThrees
12-17-2008, 11:33 PM
Brian HAS really improved, especially from what I though he would give us. That said, he has way too many layups for a 7-1 guy. If he were throwing a few of those down, nasty style, it would make a world of difference in perception, even if the overall numbers stayed the same.

E-Will is a great athlete, but he is not in G's class just yet. G probably outweighs him by 20-40lbs. It makes a huge difference. With E-Will, the main thought is how good he will be next year, and how great thereafter. A little weight lifting, some ball handling drills, some shooting reps, and guarding Nolan and Jon in practice will do wonders for him.

Elliot took a couple hits on layups and one that especially came to mind should have been a foul but wasn't. When he took the hits he couldn't finish and he just needs a few more pounds of muscle to be able to take some contact.

mo.st.dukie
12-17-2008, 11:38 PM
I just do NOT for the life of me understand how someone with that size and strength can't "man up" more. Throw himself around. Get a nasty streak.

I love Zoubek but it kills me to see someone his size play so soft. He's gotten better, but he can do so much more. He's no Marty Nessley. He's got skills and tons of potential. We need him and will need him.

But my goodness man! Get a little mean down low!

I say this recognizing his great improvement and great game tonight. I'm a fan.

-EarlJam

I agree, he's done a good job so far this year averaging 6 ppg and 4 rpg and yes he did a very good job tonight. But imagine what he could do if he was just more assertive. Elmore mentioned during the second half when Z received the ball in the post with a smaller player on his hip, he needs to make a post move and score but instead looks to pass out. That said, he is pretty good passer for a guy his size, he had a good pass to a cutting Singler early in the game, but he does need to get more assertive.

Bob Green
12-17-2008, 11:43 PM
But my goodness man! Get a little mean down low!

I say this recognizing his great improvement and great game tonight. I'm a fan.

-EarlJam

I agree that Big Z could use a big 'ol nasty streak right down the middle of his big 'ol back. However, he is probably a little gun shy due to the fact Refs seem to love to call fouls on him. Z is who Z is and I'm satisfied with his steady performance this season.

ncexnyc
12-18-2008, 12:22 AM
I like the way we attacked the basket at the start of the game.

We had way to many turnovers in the first half, however we did a good job of protecting the ball in the second half.

Nice to see Greg finally look healthy, as we will need his scoring off the bench as the season progresses.

Oriole Way
12-18-2008, 12:32 AM
It's just so hard to guage anything by tonight's game because the opponent was so bad. Xavier will be such a stark contrast to tonight's opponent in terms of talent and defensive prowess.

Also hard to figure out how rusty we were due to the extreme layoff. We committed way too many turnovers against a terrible team, even with the long break taken into consideration.

I did like the lineup change. Most importantly because it assured extra minutes for our bench guys who I think we urgently need to develop (Williams and Plumlee especially, Pocius to an extent). I was very happy that K stuck with the lineup for an extended period, so it wasn't just a token message to his starters. It served an added benefit of bench development, which is critical. I don't think it had as good an effect an the game itself as I thought it might, since tonight's starters couldn't really get a prolonged stretch of great basketball going in the first 5 minutes. I think the new lineup backfired in the sense that the traditional starters took longer to get into the flow, so the entire first half was lackluster (again, to be expected with a long layoff). However, it doesn't really matter how much we beat UNCA by, so in the end, I was very satisfied with the move.

I was also happy to see that Paulus seems to be closer to healthy. He looked like himself tonight, and watching a few three's go down has to be good for his confidence. Even though I much prefer him coming off the bench, Paulus playing up to his capabilities makes us a much better team.

I wish we had another game against a decent opponent before having to face Xavier. Based on what I've seen during these past two games, it will be very tough for us to beat Xavier. Right now, I'm expecting another loss. I think our offensive struggles will continue unless we stop making unacceptable turnovers and relying so much on the 3-ball.

wisteria
12-18-2008, 12:33 AM
Fun game.

The atmosphere and attendance was surprisingly good for a holiday game with undergrads gone. It may not show on TV, as most of the crazies were not there and therefore chants were not loud, but we cheered the whole game. Players were having fun and we were all relaxed and entertained. Feels like holiday in Cameron.

Was very surprised but happy to see the starting lineup tonight. I didn't think K was punishing the starters (why should he?). And K said in post-game interview that he did that to show confidence in the bench players, not to send messages to the starters.

Man....it was a thing of beauty to see Greg draining the threes. Welcome back, Greg! And of course when the announcer said "rejection by Paulus!", everyone was having a little chuckle. Way to go, Greg!

I don't have much intelligent things to say about the game. Had a great time in Cameron today, that's all.:D

Bob Green
12-18-2008, 12:37 AM
Based on what I've seen during these past two games, it will be very tough for us to beat Xavier. Right now, I'm expecting another loss. I think our offensive struggles will continue unless we stop making unacceptable turnovers and relying so much on the 3-ball.

I disagree with your entire post and most especially with the above quoted comments. IMO, Xavier will struggle against our defense. We will control tempo and dictate how the game unfolds. I predict a 10-12 point victory on Saturday.

Oriole Way
12-18-2008, 12:47 AM
I disagree with your entire post and most especially with the above quoted comments. IMO, Xavier will struggle against our defense. We will control tempo and dictate how the game unfolds. I predict a 10-12 point victory on Saturday.

Trust me, I would love for you to be right and for me to be wrong. I just think Xavier will be a tough game for us. And we can safely assume that they will be pumped up for the game and have a couple of guys step up with huge games.

I would be ecstatic with a convincing win.

Would be interested to hear why you disagree with the rest of my post, since I brought up a couple of different topics.

Would it be safe to say you thought UNC-A was a good opponent, you didn't like the lineup change, you don't think this team needs to further develop it's bench, and you don't think a healthy Greg Paulus makes this team better?

Bob Green
12-18-2008, 01:23 AM
Oriole Way,

I do not think UNC-A was "terrible." They were outclassed but played hard. Terrible teams do not play hard they go through the motions without real legitimate effort.

I do not think we "urgently need to develop" our bench. This is a deep team and Elliot Williams and Miles Plumlee are coming along just fine. Thomas, McClure, and Paulus are experienced and coming off the bench ahead of the two freshmen. Our bench is a strong point not a weakness.

I do agree that a healthy Paulus is good for the team. However, Nolan Smith is clearly the better option at point guard. The team slows down with Paulus at the point. Paulus knocking down threes is definitely a good thing.

trinity92
12-18-2008, 01:49 AM
Elmore mentioned during the second half when Z received the ball in the post with a smaller player on his hip, he needs to make a post move and score but instead looks to pass out.

I disagreed with this when Elmore brought it up and still feel that way. While I would certainly like to see BZ get more agressive in terms of dunking rather than laying it up, I think our opponents need to know that he has the capability to pass to the open man if he gets double-teamed. He can't be an automatic shot every time he gets the ball in the post with no alternatives-- no center can. I'm not saying we should run the offense through him and rely on his playmaking, but it's a good thing for him to pass to a wide open teammate (especially if it's Scheyer) on the perimeter from time to time.

I am very happy with Z's development this year. I honestly didn't think he had it in him. Having wait this long, I am more than willing to give him more time to become a force down low.

Oriole Way
12-18-2008, 01:53 AM
Oriole Way,

I do not think UNC-A was "terrible." They were outclassed but played hard. Terrible teams do not play hard they go through the motions without real legitimate effort.

I do not think we "urgently need to develop" our bench. This is a deep team and Elliot Williams and Miles Plumlee are coming along just fine. Thomas, McClure, and Paulus are experienced and coming off the bench ahead of the two freshmen. Our bench is a strong point not a weakness.

I do agree that a healthy Paulus is good for the team. However, Nolan Smith is clearly the better option at point guard. The team slows down with Paulus at the point. Paulus knocking down threes is definitely a good thing.

Completely agree about Nolan Smith, benching Paulus is one of the moves I am most encouraged by in the early part of the season. I never meant to imply I think he's a better PG than Nolan Smith in any way, except for long-range shooting.

I guess we can agree to disagree about UNC-A, I don't mean to take away from their effort, but they are a bad, bad team talent-wise. They're not much different from a Division II team. Just calling a spade a spade, at least from my perspective.

I think Williams and Plumlee can possibly offer two things this team could use: a slasher and another competent true post player. Elliot is one of the most talented players on the team. I would have liked for him to have gotten more minutes than he has up to this point, even if he's made some mistakes and shot poorly. Duke's first points tonight are an example of what he could be doing. I am happy with the improved play of Zoubek and Thomas, but if Plumlee can contribute 10-15 positive minutes a game, we'll be much better for it.

The reason I think it's urgent to get these guys more minutes now is because the first 10-12 games, before ACC play starts, is the best time to get young players minutes. It will only get tougher to find them minutes from here on out. I am a little disappointed with the minutes Elliot and Miles have gotten thus far, because chances are they will get less time during ACC play. If they had gotten more time, I think they might be more prepared to contribute later on in the season. I could very well be wrong.

Oriole Way
12-18-2008, 02:08 AM
I do not think we "urgently need to develop" our bench. This is a deep team and Elliot Williams and Miles Plumlee are coming along just fine. Thomas, McClure, and Paulus are experienced and coming off the bench ahead of the two freshmen. Our bench is a strong point not a weakness.

We have a deep team in theory, but the reason I want to further develop our depth is because I want it to be utilized in close games against tough opponents. I would like to see Duke go 10 deep against even our best opponents, with most of the 10 getting minutes in the second half. Right now, that's not the case. In the Purdue game and the second Michigan game, K essentially went with 6 or 7 guys in the second half. That's not what I consider a deep bench.

I would like to see this team use it's depth like the 2000 Florida team which defeated Duke in the NCAA tournament and went to the championship game. That team truly went 10 deep, with every single player getting AT LEAST 10 minutes in that game. They came at teams in waves and wore them down. This team could be very similar to that one, but right now, I don't think K is properly using his depth in close games.

So as of right now, I don't think we're a deep team if we don't use our depth in meaningful games. That's a big reason I'd like to develop Elliot and Miles more. I want to see them get significant minutes in our toughest ACC games, because I think they have the talent to contribute. Right now, it doesn't look like that will happen.

mkline09
12-18-2008, 06:49 AM
Not sure I saw anyone talk about his game and his numbers weren't great but Elliott Williams I thought played his best game from a sense of confidence and agressiveness. Duke definitely needs him to step up so they can utilize his athleticism.

kaufmjo
12-18-2008, 07:47 AM
I thought it strange that the DBR write up of the game led with the upside being stellar three point shooting from Paulus. I'm glad after Michigan they practiced and were able to hit a high percentage against possibly the weakest defense they will see all year but I think most Duke supporters are looking for more diversity in the offensive plan - as we have for the past few years. Zoubek's play inside was great, more from his height advantage than direct feeds from outside but still a nice sign. I'd like to see more of that plus Singler posting up or driving to diversify the offense going into league-play season. Great play by the team though.

gw67
12-18-2008, 08:01 AM
As expected, most of the team played very well against an outmanned opponent. The aspects of the game that I enjoyed most were:


The team did a good job of sharing the ball. For the second game in a row, the passing was improved and the players often made the extra pass to an open man.
The free throw shooting was very good. This appears to be an aspect of the team that can be counted upon regardless of the opponent.
Zoubek and Williams looked good in extended minutes.

This was a good warmup for the Sunday game against Xavier.

I like the announcing team of Gannon and Elmore. Two ACC guys who know the league and its' history. The game was enjoyable to watch.

gw67

mgtr
12-18-2008, 08:25 AM
I like the announcing team of Gannon and Elmore. Two ACC guys who know the league and its' history. The game was enjoyable to watch.

gw67

I find Gannon to be non-intrusive (=good), but Elmore seems to talk about all kinds of things not related to the game, a la Dickie V. Elmore is less grating than Mr. Vitale, however. Of course, this was a game where they could talk about a lot of things, since it was never in doubt.

gw67
12-18-2008, 08:41 AM
mgtr - I probably have lower standards than most but Elmore rarely gets on my nerves and during a blowout the color guys seem to feel obligated to fill the time. Gannon has made himself into a very good lead announcer over the years (ice skating, basketball, golf and football). As I recall, he was a sideline reporter on ACC basketball games when he got started.

gw67

throatybeard
12-18-2008, 08:51 AM
I just love how a thread after a game in which the depth fetishists finally get their wish can devolve into an argument... about depth.

whereinthehellami
12-18-2008, 08:53 AM
From the ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=283520150) boxscore;


11 Duke players scored.


11 Duke players played more than 10 minutes.


6 Duke players scored in double figures.


Singler's stat line was 14 pts, 8 rbs, 5 ast, 4 st, 1 bl. What a game.


Singler had 5 TOs.


Thomas had 2 rbs in 14 minutes.


Our 3 headed Centerosaurus had 0 blocks for the game.

Oriole Way
12-18-2008, 09:22 AM
I just love how a thread after a game in which the depth fetishists finally get their wish can devolve into an argument... about depth.

I would consider myself in that group. As I mentioned, I was happy with the starting lineup and the minutes everyone got. But K still severely cuts back his rotation in any game that isn't a 30-point blowout. Those are the games (such as the two Michigan games and the Purdue game) in which I would like to see Williams and Plumlee in particular get more minutes, especially in the second half.

BlueintheFace
12-18-2008, 10:32 AM
Nobody has discussed this yet, but I think it is the most important thing to come out of this game.

Paulus shot the three ball well. All season long his three's have somehow managed to touch every inch of the rim and come back out (very unusual for a three point shooter, no?). He has just been a little bit off, and you have to believe it was somewhat a repetition/confidence issue. This game he was the best player on the "second team" and sparked our early run with two threes (one of which may have matched JJ's long against Miami in 2005). He hit 4 of 8 and looked for his shot more.

Hitting those back to back threes reminded me how Greg is the one player on the team with that unique ability to break a game open by himself in two or three plays at any given time thanks to his range. It is something we saw in 6 or 7 games last season and something we really need this season in which our three point shooting is so bad.

I have missed Greg "The streak starter" Paulus and I think this game was an important step to getting him back. Keep shooting Greg!

PS- You know Duke has had a good game when Greg logs a block in the stat book.

BlueintheFace
12-18-2008, 11:06 AM
... also, from what we have seen of E-will so far, we might be witnessing the beginnings of one of Duke's best rebounding guards ever... the kid has an INCREDIBLE instinct on the boards. Who knows what kind of rebounding numbers he might put up with starters minutes one day.... geez

quickgtp
12-18-2008, 11:19 AM
I was happy to see others get significant PT as well. I truly believe Email will be a special player and that he will only get better as the season goes on. Overall we looked a bit rusty at first but we seemed to shake that late in the first half and all through the second half. Some other things I noted:

1) Zoubek is slowly progressing, but he needs to dunk the ball sometimes instead of just laying it up there
2) We did get a little happy with the 3 at some points in the game; we need to attack the inside and the rim more often against Xavier
3) Henderson is looking more and more comfortable as he recovers from the wrist injury

I have to say I agree with you OrioleWay in that I do not think we will beat Xavier. Call me a pessimist or whatever you want, I just think I am being realistic. Xavier is long and athletic and I feel that will cause us some serious problems. I just hope we can wear them down with depth and choose to attack rather than just hoisting three's all game. I believe it will be close, but I have a feeling the X-men walk away with the W in a nail-biter.

I hope I am wrong, and I hope posters like Bob Green are correct!

RainingThrees
12-18-2008, 11:23 AM
Oriole Way,

I do not think UNC-A was "terrible." They were outclassed but played hard. Terrible teams do not play hard they go through the motions without real legitimate effort.

I do not think we "urgently need to develop" our bench. This is a deep team and Elliot Williams and Miles Plumlee are coming along just fine. Thomas, McClure, and Paulus are experienced and coming off the bench ahead of the two freshmen. Our bench is a strong point not a weakness.

I do agree that a healthy Paulus is good for the team. However, Nolan Smith is clearly the better option at point guard. The team slows down with Paulus at the point. Paulus knocking down threes is definitely a good thing.

Greg has a tendency to pick up his dribble about 7 feet past half court and then has to call for someone to come to him and help out. This kills me because it burns the shot clock and we often get a rushed shot because our offense couldn't set up.

Kedsy
12-18-2008, 11:42 AM
Zoubek is slowly progressing, but he needs to dunk the ball sometimes instead of just laying it up there

I agree with you generally, and would like to see Zoubek be more aggressive toward the basket, but the guy only missed one shot last night and it's unlikely anyone could have dunked from the position he had on that particular shot. So it's hard to argue that dunking would have helped him last night. Let's give the kid a break, just this once.

pfrduke
12-18-2008, 11:48 AM
I really don't understand how someone can come out of last night's game thinking this is a team that lives and dies by the three. We started 7-8 in the first 12 minutes. At that point we were up 14. We then hit just 4 of the next 19. During the last 28 minutes, we stretched the lead from 14 to 43, despite shooting poorly from outside. And, despite shooting poorly from outside, the offensive efficiency during the initial 12 minutes was only very slightly better than the offensive efficiency the rest of the way.

Last night we attacked the rim frequently. We attacked the offensive glass frequently. We generated turnovers and got out in transition (actually, if our offense is overdependent on anything, it may be the turnovers we can generate on the defensive end).

Moreover, on the season we are not heavily reliant on outside shooting. We've taken 34.5% of our shots from 3. That's only slightly above the national average (33.2%) and is 134th in the country. 133 teams right now are more dependent on the 3 than we are.

Finally, and I can't really stress this enough, open three pointers are very good shots. They're relatively high percentage looks, particularly from good shooters, and they're high reward. They're far, far better than 15-footers, which are only marginally easier to hit but offer substantially less reward. I want our guys to take wide open threes when they get them. Last night (and even against Michigan) we generally took wide open looks. There were very, very few bad shots from 3.

quickgtp
12-18-2008, 12:03 PM
I agree with you generally, and would like to see Zoubek be more aggressive toward the basket, but the guy only missed one shot last night and it's unlikely anyone could have dunked from the position he had on that particular shot. So it's hard to argue that dunking would have helped him last night. Let's give the kid a break, just this once.

I didn't think he should have dunked every shot, and yes that shot you are referring to was almost impossible to hit anyway you look at it.

I like Zoubek because he continues to work hard even though he has had a tough string of injuries, but I have to be honest, he is not the answer in the post. This opinion was not formed off of last nights game alone either.

Saratoga2
12-18-2008, 12:09 PM
I disagree with your entire post and most especially with the above quoted comments. IMO, Xavier will struggle against our defense. We will control tempo and dictate how the game unfolds. I predict a 10-12 point victory on Saturday.

Xavier is a long athletic team that runs the break well. They also rdebound well but I see their main strength as in the defensive area. Against Cincinnati, they really allowed no space for the three point shot and were also limiting passing lanes inside. They are indeed a formidable team.
I think they may have a weakness in the PG area and that may cause they grief with turnovers against the Duke pressure defense.

If we put up threes and miss, look for them to run the break against us. I see the game as coming down to which defense is the most effective and the score for both sides being below the mmid 70's, perhaps below 70.

In agree with the general feeling about E-Will. He has a load of talent and althleticism and may conbtribute a lot to the team going forward. Saying that, it is also pretty evident that he has freshman lapses and needs to grow to be a force as an ACC guard. I am looking forward to watching him come along.

There is also a lot of hope for Plumlee. It is not an easy thing for a freshman to learn to succeed in DIV I basketball. I do see him making progress.

As far as UNCA, they lacked a solid point guard but did play some good defense early on (our 12 turnovers) and shot the ball well when given an opening. I don't agree with others who denigrate that team.

ncexnyc
12-18-2008, 01:06 PM
It would appear that after every game the Big Z. is getting nit-picked to death.

Since we already have a, "Man of the Match" thread. Maybe we could start a, "What Did Brian Do Wrong" thread.

Let's be serious, this kid has come a very long way and he is only getting better. Notice his foul totals, a nice downward trend. Free throw shooting, excellent for a big man. Field goal %, again excellent. Turnovers, none of those silly traveling calls that plagued him nearly every touch last year.

We need to remember he has had serious health issues the past two years and came to us as a project to begin with. He missed all of the summer so he's behind the power curve as far as conditioning and working on his footwork.

Does Brian have limitations? Sure, but he gives us so much more in the post than we had last year. The true test of Brian's value to this team will become evident at the end of the season. If Kyle is still putting up the numbers he currently is, I think it will be safe to say that Brian's play is a big part of that.

ACCBBallFan
12-18-2008, 02:00 PM
The minutes the reserves played were more meaningful with the score tied at 0-0 than if they had entered when up by 30.

I saw the move as more of a reward to reserves for playing hard in practice than a message to the starters.

RepoMan
12-18-2008, 02:25 PM
I just love how a thread after a game in which the depth fetishists finally get their wish can devolve into an argument... about depth.

Good one.


(Could use of the word "fetish" become, itself, a fetish?)

Scorp4me
12-18-2008, 02:45 PM
Everyone has pointed out how nice it is to have Greg back and shooting well from the outside, but I'm surprised no one has noticed that his first game shooting well coincides his first game as a starter this season.

I know I'm in the minority, heck I may be completely alone, K obviously disagrees with me. But I'm one who would like to see Paulus starting again. I personally feel better with Paulus running things (when he is healthy). Particularly the first 4 and last 4 of a game. Use Smith in the middle, heck use him for the other 32 minutes for all I care to run the team ragged.

The great thing is that if Paulus does return as a starter, which I don't expect, it'll be because of great play and his confidence will be through the roof. But like I said I don't expect it. Maybe he doesn't warrant it, I'm sure you guys will let me know. And I'll admit my feelings are colored by things like experience, slow and steadiness, things like that.

jv001
12-18-2008, 03:00 PM
Everyone has pointed out how nice it is to have Greg back and shooting well from the outside, but I'm surprised no one has noticed that his first game shooting well coincides his first game as a starter this season.

I know I'm in the minority, heck I may be completely alone, K obviously disagrees with me. But I'm one who would like to see Paulus starting again. I personally feel better with Paulus running things (when he is healthy). Particularly the first 4 and last 4 of a game. Use Smith in the middle, heck use him for the other 32 minutes for all I care to run the team ragged.

The great thing is that if Paulus does return as a starter, which I don't expect, it'll be because of great play and his confidence will be through the roof. But like I said I don't expect it. Maybe he doesn't warrant it, I'm sure you guys will let me know. And I'll admit my feelings are colored by things like experience, slow and steadiness, things like that.

While I like Greg's toughness and his ability to hit the 3, I don't think he is as important at the beginning of the game, start of 2nd half and at the end of the game. Atleast not at the point in place of Nolan. Greg's defense on the ball gets us in trouble. I know we are suppose to have help defense but it sometimes get's others in foul trouble. We need stops at those times in the game. Nolan just runs the team better IMO. He finishes shots and plays good defense. I like Greg in the game with Nolan and Jon when the other team is fouling because he hits his FT's . Like I said IMO. Go Duke!

Dr. Rosenrosen
12-18-2008, 05:56 PM
Several have correctly noted that we are not relying on the 3pt shot as much this year and that statements to the contrary are based on misperception and/or incorrect assumptions. I looked at 3-pt attempts as a % of total field goal attempts going back to 2001 just to gain some add'l perspective.

2000-01 41.8%
2001-02 37.6%
2002-03 33.7%
2003-04 33.5%
2004-05 39.8%
2005-06 35.3%
2006-07 29.6%
2007-08 39.2%
2000-08 36.4% (average over 8 previous seasons)
2008-09 34.6% (thru 10 games)

So, not only are we less reliant on the 3pt shot than many other teams around the country today as has been noted, but we are less reliant on it than we have been on average during the previous eight seasons. But this alone tells us very little. I suspect the focus on supposed over-reliance on the 3pt shot is really a function of poor 3pt FG%. It may feel like we're taking too many 3pt shots, but the reality is we're just missing too many good looks. A quick review of the team's 3pt FG% over the past couple seasons shows we are indeed well below where one might expect.

2006-07 38.1%
2007-08 37.7%
2008-09 32.0% (thru 10 games)

Looking at the performance of two players, Scheyer and Paulus, a few things stand out and seem to explain a good bit of the situation. Scheyer shot 38.8% last year and is just 34.2% so far this year. Paulus shot 42.3% last year and is just 34.3% this year. For whatever reason, Scheyer has gotten off to a slow start and one has to think that Paulus' injuries have impacted his performance. Everyone else is hitting at about the % they did last year. Nolan is slightly better this year.

Here's what seems to me to be very encouraging. Scheyer was 23.5% and Paulus was 26.7% thru the first six games. They are now 42.9% and 40% respectively over the last four games, which of course includes that debacle in Ann Arbor. If these two are indeed getting back on track, we should see some nice dividends going forward.

The reality is, there is nothing to indicate we are taking too many or too few 3pt shots. I wholly agree with other posters that we have generally been getting good open looks. We just weren't hitting enough of them. It appears Scheyer and Paulus in particular are finding their touch again. Combined with an overall more balanced attack and solid inside play, we've got a lot to be excited about. Let's not sell our team short on their abilities, on their potential for continuing improvement or most importantly on their chances of beating anyone, anywhere, anytime.

DukieInBrasil
12-19-2008, 08:08 PM
a few observations so far:
Geraldīs a/to has seriously improved lately. He started off passing pretty poorly, but over the last 5 games has a very impressive a/to ratio. Itīs nice to see, even if heīs not scoring as much as lots of people thought he would, he has mos def imroved as a passer.
EWill seems to rebound extremely well against not-so-good teams, 8 vs. UNC-A and 11 vs. GSU. Looks like the kid is a very good rebounder for his size, the next Charles Barkley??? On the down side, not so good on 3pt shooting.
Z and LT continue to impress me very much, every game they play productive ball. They have basically doubled their scoring, improved their rebounding significantly while combining for 3 mpg more than last year. Sweet!!!
Marty Pocius may unfortunately be playing himslef out of the rotation by trying to shoot the 3pt ball. The kid has great hops and has a gift for slashing but he is not playing very well, largely due to his 3pt shooting. Maybe he is pressing too hard.

Kedsy
12-19-2008, 11:01 PM
Marty Pocius may unfortunately be playing himslef out of the rotation by trying to shoot the 3pt ball. The kid has great hops and has a gift for slashing but he is not playing very well, largely due to his 3pt shooting. Maybe he is pressing too hard.

Did anyone else notice that Marty was fading away on all his 3-point shots? And they were hitting the front rim. It seems like a bad habit he's gotten himself into. If he goes straight up or leans in a little when he shoots those shots they'll have a better chance of going in.

dukesbetter
12-21-2008, 09:15 AM
Can anyone on the site explain the Olek Czyz lane violation where he almost dunked the putback? The feed I was watching cut to the free throw a little late, but it didn't appear that Olek stepped into the key until the ball hit the rim. Can't a player begin moving when the ball is released from the free through shooter?

Maybe the lane violation was from one of the other players?

Thanks,

Dukesbetter

PS. Sorry if this question has been answered - my search of the forum didn't reveal any hits.

Ders24
12-21-2008, 04:58 PM
Can anyone on the site explain the Olek Czyz lane violation where he almost dunked the putback? The feed I was watching cut to the free throw a little late, but it didn't appear that Olek stepped into the key until the ball hit the rim. Can't a player begin moving when the ball is released from the free through shooter?

Maybe the lane violation was from one of the other players?

Thanks,

Dukesbetter

PS. Sorry if this question has been answered - my search of the forum didn't reveal any hits.
Could be wrong, but I thought they might have called it goal tending and not a lane violation?

dukesbetter
12-21-2008, 05:47 PM
Thanks, that makes much more sense. One of the announcers called it a lane violation, which was confusing.

Goal tending makes much more sense...

-jk
12-21-2008, 05:54 PM
I believe the infraction was "Players not in a legal marked lane space shall remain behind the freethrow line extended and behind the three-point field-goal line until the ball strikes the ring, flange or backboard, or until the free throw ends." (Rule 9, Sec 1, Art 2g) I think he raced in on the release, not on the bounce.

(And for contrast, Article 2h: "Players occupying any of the legal marked lane spaces on each side of the lane may break the vertical plane of a lane-space boundary once the free-thrower has released the ball.")

-jk

dukesbetter
12-21-2008, 09:28 PM
Many thanks -jk. One day I will stop relying on my elementary school CYO level knowledge of the rules and get myself a handbook.

Although, stepping into the pub-like atmosphere of the DBR is another way to improve one's understanding of the game.

Thanks again,
Dukesbetter

wisteria
12-21-2008, 09:45 PM
Marty Pocius may unfortunately be playing himslef out of the rotation by trying to shoot the 3pt ball. The kid has great hops and has a gift for slashing but he is not playing very well, largely due to his 3pt shooting. Maybe he is pressing too hard.

Coach K in the post-game praised Marty, said something like "I think Marty played a very good game, he just missed 4 open shots."

But of course that may be just coach talk. And since Marty didn't really play much in the Xavier game, your concern may be right.