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The1Bluedevil
12-15-2008, 10:59 PM
I was on my way home tonight and somehow flipping through AM channels I found the Rick Barnes radio show. He was discussing his schedule for next year (UNC, UCONN and Michigan State by the way) and he mentioned trying really hard to get a home and home with Duke. He then said the home and home fell through so they were trying to get two neutral site games. He then stated, “ Mike thinks New Jersey or Durham North is a neutral site game and I can’t convince him to even play in Arlington or Dallas so we asked Roy and he never hesitated to play us”.

Thought that was very interesting. Would be great to see Duke play Texas.

A-Tex Devil
12-15-2008, 11:10 PM
I was on my way home tonight and somehow flipping through AM channels I found the Rick Barnes radio show. He was discussing his schedule for next year (UNC, UCONN and Michigan State by the way) and he mentioned trying really hard to get a home and home with Duke. He then said the home and home fell through so they were trying to get two neutral site games. He then stated, “ Mike thinks New Jersey or Durham North is a neutral site game and I can’t convince him to even play in Arlington or Dallas so we asked Roy and he never hesitated to play us”.

Thought that was very interesting. Would be great to see Duke play Texas.

Duke was supposed to play Texas in Houston several years back. But TJ left for the NBA, and somehow that game got rescheduled to MSG.

Enough coaches have raised this as complaint, but the thing is, we played Big Ten challenge and Michigan on road this year. We can't play everyone, so when we turn teams down they complain. I love Rick Barnes and what he's done for UT basketball But I imagine it's more complicated than he made it out to be on the radio show and that we have other plans those years he was trying to schedule us.

That all being said -- K should really, really try to start scheduling one game a year in Texas (selfishly ;) ). It is becoming a real recuriting hotbed and I'd love for us to start pulling recruits regularly from Texas.

BlueintheFace
12-15-2008, 11:21 PM
Hey Barnes, win a few championships and then you can start ruling the scheduling world with an iron fist like K.

I think K schedules in the most intelligent way possible. He schedules to the committee in order to give his team the best possible starting position come March.... and those who say we don't play enough OOC road games simply CANNOT explain how not playing such games hurt us in March in any logical way. It's not like there is a correlation between OOC road games played or won and success in march.

The1Bluedevil
12-15-2008, 11:25 PM
One can look at it two ways for winning programs

1. Why play multiple tough road or neutral site games because how many of those will one face in March?

2. Why not play multiple tough road games so one is ready for any atmosphere and is proven they can step away from their own building?

Kansas played a neutral site game against USC in California and at B.C. . Not what I call a brutal non con, but I guess when a team is that talented why do it?

yancem
12-16-2008, 12:15 AM
I think K schedules in the most intelligent way possible. He schedules to the committee in order to give his team the best possible starting position come March.... and those who say we don't play enough OOC road games simply CANNOT explain how not playing such games hurt us in March in any logical way. It's not like there is a correlation between OOC road games played or won and success in march.

I don't think that this perspective is very accurate. I have to look back at the schedules but IIRC Duke played many difficult OOC road games during the late 80's and early 90's and we had pretty good tournament success back then. I remember that during that stretch we had home-and-home's against Arizona, Kansas, Michigan, I think Georgetown and toward the end of the golden era UCLA (not all in the same years). Now contrast that with the OOC road schedule of the past few years:

'08 - Toughest OOC road game: Davidson (note: but not on their normal home court). We also played Marquette (ranked # 11) and *Pitt (ranked #11) on neutral sites
'07 - Toughest OOC road game: St. Johns (note: At MSG, again not their normal home court). We also played Marquette (ranked # 13) and *Gonzaga on neutral sites
'06 - Toughest OOC road games: Indiana (ranked # 17) and Georgetown (not ranked). We also played *Memphis (ranked #11) and Texas (ranked #2) on neutral sites.
'05 - Toughest OOC road game: St. Johns (note: At MSG, again not their normal home court). We also played *Oklahoma on neutral site.
'04 - Toughest OOC road games: Michigan St. (ranked #5) and Georgetown (not ranked). We also played Purdue and *Texas (ranked #11) on neutral sites.

Only '04 and '06 had a truly big OOC road game and more than 2 truly tough OOC non home games. '04 was a final four year and '06 we were ranked #1 most of the year. I don't think that schedule difficulty can be blamed for the '06 early exit but you could make the case that '04's team may have been helped by the additional tough games.

BlueintheFace
12-16-2008, 12:35 AM
I don't think that this perspective is very accurate. I have to look back at the schedules but IIRC Duke played many difficult OOC road games during the late 80's and early 90's and we had pretty good tournament success back then. I remember that during that stretch we had home-and-home's against Arizona, Kansas, Michigan, I think Georgetown and toward the end of the golden era UCLA (not all in the same years). Now contrast that with the OOC road schedule of the past few years:

'08 - Toughest OOC road game: Davidson (note: but not on their normal home court). We also played Marquette (ranked # 11) and *Pitt (ranked #11) on neutral sites
'07 - Toughest OOC road game: St. Johns (note: At MSG, again not their normal home court). We also played Marquette (ranked # 13) and *Gonzaga on neutral sites
'06 - Toughest OOC road games: Indiana (ranked # 17) and Georgetown (not ranked). We also played *Memphis (ranked #11) and Texas (ranked #2) on neutral sites.
'05 - Toughest OOC road game: St. Johns (note: At MSG, again not their normal home court). We also played *Oklahoma on neutral site.
'04 - Toughest OOC road games: Michigan St. (ranked #5) and Georgetown (not ranked). We also played Purdue and *Texas (ranked #11) on neutral sites.

Only '04 and '06 had a truly big OOC road game and more than 2 truly tough OOC non home games. '04 was a final four year and '06 we were ranked #1 most of the year. I don't think that schedule difficulty can be blamed for the '06 early exit but you could make the case that '04's team may have been helped by the additional tough games.

Unfortunately, selective data presentation is not too convincing. If you look at the NCAA champions for the last 20 years and the OOC Road games they played, there is no significant correlation between quality of those teams and success in March. I do not feel like running the regresssion or posting the data since I am a bit short on time this time of year, but I would encourage you to look into it.

RainingThrees
12-16-2008, 07:33 AM
I would love to see us playing Texas AT Texas. In fact i would love us to play anyone out west.

Devilsfan
12-16-2008, 08:18 AM
Someone tell Rick (formerly and fondly, Mr. "Hack a heel") Barnes that he should sign up for the Mauii field next time Duke is in it and he will get his wish.

CDu
12-16-2008, 08:53 AM
Someone tell Rick (formerly and fondly, Mr. "Hack a heel") Barnes that he should sign up for the Mauii field next time Duke is in it and he will get his wish.

Signing up for the Maui would get him a home-and-home game with Duke? How?

Barnes was saying he wanted to do a "home and home" but Duke refused to come to Texas to play. I'm not sure how Maui would constitute a home-and-home.

gw67
12-16-2008, 08:53 AM
Speaking of Maui, are the Devils playing in a preseason tourney next year? Maryland is competing in the 2009 Maui Invitational.

gw67

Cary
12-16-2008, 09:23 AM
In fairness, MSG is considered home court for St. John's. While it is not on their campus, they play a number of their games there (8 home games plus 2 early season tournament games) and it is listed on their website as one of their athletic facilities. Carnesecca Fieldhouse hosts the greatest number of their games, but these games are largely against weaker opponents. All of their biggest marquee home games are at MSG.

WhiteboardGuy
12-16-2008, 09:28 AM
I was on my way home tonight and somehow flipping through AM channels I found the Rick Barnes radio show. He was discussing his schedule for next year (UNC, UCONN and Michigan State by the way) and he mentioned trying really hard to get a home and home with Duke. He then said the home and home fell through so they were trying to get two neutral site games. He then stated, “ Mike thinks New Jersey or Durham North is a neutral site game and I can’t convince him to even play in Arlington or Dallas so we asked Roy and he never hesitated to play us”.

Thought that was very interesting. Would be great to see Duke play Texas.

Jim Calhoun said something similar a few years back, except K wanted to play UConn at Cameron and then have UConn's return home game be at MSG/Izod. Calhoun obviously said no.



In fairness, MSG is considered home court for St. John's. While it is not on their campus, they play a number of their games there (8 home games plus 2 early season tournament games) and it is listed on their website as one of their athletic facilities. Carnesecca Fieldhouse hosts the greatest number of their games, but these games are largely against weaker opponents. All of their biggest marquee home games are at MSG.

Technically yes, but don't kid yourself into thinking that Duke playing at MSG is a road game, even if St. John's is the home team. Too many alumni in the stands for that to be true.

6th Man
12-16-2008, 09:45 AM
I personally miss the true road games. I enjoyed the fact we got to play Purdue and Michigan at their house this season. That is great entertainment. Win or lose it is exciting. I miss how Coach K used to do a true home and home series. I hate this we'll play you at Cameron but play your home game on a neutral site crap. I remember Duke going to Arizona, LSU, Michigan, Oklahoma, to name a few. Those were great games and nothing is better than seeing Duke silence a frenzied crowd.

Not saying it makes Duke a better team by doing that. Just saying it is fun. I'm also sure I will get the usual "who are you to criticze Coach K" comment.

jv001
12-16-2008, 09:48 AM
I personally miss the true road games. I enjoyed the fact we got to play Purdue and Michigan at their house this season. That is great entertainment. Win or lose it is exciting. I miss how Coach K used to do a true home and home series. I hate this we'll play you at Cameron but play your home game on a neutral site crap. I remember Duke going to Arizona, LSU, Michigan, Oklahoma, to name a few. Those were great games and nothing is better than seeing Duke silence a frenzied crowd.

Not saying it makes Duke a better team by doing that. Just saying it is fun. I'm also sure I will get the usual "who are you to criticze Coach K" comment.

Not from me you won't. I agree it just fuels the argument from the Duke haters we are afraid to schedule home and home against the better teams. I think it would help us in the long run. Go Duke!

kexman
12-16-2008, 10:09 AM
Pretty much any NCAA tourney game will be in front of a hostile crowd. Several years ago I went to a first round game in Raleigh and that crowd was hostile to duke (lots of UNC and State fans).

I think everyone, including the players would enjoy playing in some of the storied arenas in the country. Wish we did more. I think the big boys should play each other more often. Losing a few games is healthy if they are against good teams.

Bluedog
12-16-2008, 10:35 AM
Pretty much any NCAA tourney game will be in front of a hostile crowd. Several years ago I went to a first round game in Raleigh and that crowd was hostile to duke (lots of UNC and State fans).

Yep, and even last year at the Verizon Center in DC (a city where there are a lot of Duke alumni) when there were no UNC fans it was a very hostile crowd. Part of that was just people in general like to cheer for the underdog, but, of course, it didn't hurt that most people don't like Duke. The Duke vs. Belmont game was most definitely an away game, and I doubt there were many Belmont fans there.

Olympic Fan
12-16-2008, 11:04 AM
I must admit that this issue always baffles me.

What is the magic about "out of conference" road games?

Duke ALWAYS plays eight ACC road games. Is that not enough to teach the team to play in front of hostile crowds? Is Mackey Arena a better training ground than the Smith Center or the Comcast Center in College Park?

A year ago, Duke won on the road at North Carolina and Maryland. We won at Virginia Tech and FSU and NC State and Virginia. We lost at Wake Forest and at Miami.

That wasn't enough of a lesson on the road? Are you suggesting that playing Temple in the Licourous Center instead of the NBA arena (I forget what corporate name it has this week) would have made Duke better prepared for Belmont and West Virginia?

Selectively citing several years past is a futile gesture. You want selective history ... okay, let's look at 2001 -- Duke's last national title. Duke beat Texas and Temple in Madison Square Garden in the preseason NIT ... Duke beat Illinois on a "neutral" court in Greensboro. A week later, Duke played Temple in Philly -- but it doesn't count as a road game since the game was in a pro arena, not Temple's on-campus arena.

Duke later played Portland in Portland, but again, it was in the Rose Garden and not on campus. It was a homecoming game for Mike Dunleavy and the crowd wasn't very hostile. On the same trip, Duke played Stanford in the Oakland Coliseum -- another pro arena (although that crowd WAS hostile). Late in the season, Duke played St. John's in Madison Square Garden ... but as several posters in this thread have suggested, that doesn't count as a real road game either.

That's it -- seven OOC games away from Cameron ... four played in or near the home city of the opponent, but NONE played on an OOC opponents' home court.

How could that team have possibly succeeded in postseason without playing a single true OOC road game?

The fact is that I don't buy the whining about not playing OOC road games. It's gotten so ridiculous that some critics even discount games such as at Michigan State, at Indiana and at Purdue in the ACC-Big Ten Challenge because we "had" to play them.

I might buy all the criticism if Duke was dodging ACC road road games too. But I was believe that whatever benefits there are to playing on the road in front of implacably hostile crowds is something K's teams get in spades in places like Chapel Hill, College Park, Winston-Salem, Charlottesville, Atlanta ...

Eight "true" road games a year are enough. I'll play my other out-of-Cameron games in the same kind of big arenas that host NCAA games.

PS ... I've been at every Duke NCAA game this decade except the loss to VCU in Buffalo two years ago. The only time Duke has faced a hostile NCAA crowd was in Charlotte in 2005. There were a lot of reasons for that, but it was an unusual situation having to do with UNC also being sent there -- and since UNC was expected to be in Charlotte all that season, the Tar Heel people bought up all the tickets before Duke was surprisingly sent there at the last moment. Last year in Washington was a pretty normal NCAA crowd -- a lot of Duke people, but when Belmont hung tough, the rest of the crowd rallied to their side ... that's a normal NCAA reaction, to pull for the underdog.

Duke's last NCAA trip to Raleigh was in 2004 ... if anybody thinks that crowd was hostile, you are entirely too sensitive -- it was an overwhelmingly pro-Duke crowd.

msdukie
12-16-2008, 11:24 AM
Speaking of Maui, are the Devils playing in a preseason tourney next year? Maryland is competing in the 2009 Maui Invitational.

gw67

I believe next year should be P-NIT.

The1Bluedevil
12-16-2008, 11:27 AM
I think the more marquee non-conference match ups the better not just for Duke but also for the sport in general. I listen to national sports talk and they hardly ever talk college basketball this time of year but if Duke was playing UCONN, UCLA, KANSAS or any other big time school people would be interested.

A-Tex Devil
12-16-2008, 11:39 AM
I think Olympic fan makes a good point. Should Duke ever become a bubble team, or should the ACC ever fall to mid-major status where a winning conference record plus at least 18-20 wins doesn't get you in the tourney, maybe we should consider more true road games. In the meantime, we get plenty of hostile crowds in the ACC -- if that is why you think true road games are important.

I think neutral site/road games against good out of conference competition is important for 2 reasons (neither of which requires Duke to play in a teams home gym, necessarily):

1. Recruiting - obviously.
2. It allows our team to play against good competition with non-ACC refs, which is also something you typically get in pre-season tourneys as well. I watch a lot of Big XII and ACC over the past few years and the games are played and called differently in conference for each league. There are more fouls and whistles in the ACC. Teams get to the penalty faster in the ACC. This is a combo of style of play and officiating tendencies, but it's good experience to face this -- and I don't think it requires home and homes to do so.

SilkyJ
12-16-2008, 12:22 PM
I love Rick Barnes


I don't. He was a sleezeball when he was at Clemson and he remains one at texas. Coach K would never come out and rip another coach like that, even if it was a minor slight.

Oh and Rick, Arlington and Dallas are in your HOME FREAKING STATE. New York/New Jersey, despite having a lot of Duke supporters, is separated from North Carolina by about half a dozen states.

He's probably still pissed from that whooping we laid on him a couple years ago.

MulletMan
12-16-2008, 01:14 PM
2. It allows our team to play against good competition with non-ACC refs, which is also something you typically get in pre-season tourneys as well. I watch a lot of Big XII and ACC over the past few years and the games are played and called differently in conference for each league. There are more fouls and whistles in the ACC. Teams get to the penalty faster in the ACC. This is a combo of style of play and officiating tendencies, but it's good experience to face this -- and I don't think it requires home and homes to do so.

While I agree with most everything that you and OlyFan have put forth in this thread, I'm going to hijack here and point out that there are not "ACC refs" anymore. As I found out on a call in show with a question to Karl Hess in 2005, the individual conferences do not have 3-man crews anymore, nor do they have "ACC refs" that are employed by the conference. Each official is contracted with a booking agent who lines up his client for different games regardless of conference. The real determining factor is where the official lives, and how far he is willing to travel.

Teddy Valentine is an ACC ref, right? Here are Teddy's games reffed last season:
Year, Conference, Games, Total fouls, Fouls per game
2007-2008 ACC 19 661 34.8
2007-2008 SEC 14 500 35.7
2007-2008 SoCon 13 346 26.6
2007-2008 Big Ten 5 134 26.8

So is Teddy an ACC ref? An SEC ref? A SoCon ref? Also note that the SEC games that he officiated avg. almost a full foul more per game, whereas Big 10 games avg. almost 8 fewer fouls. So is that difference due to the ref, or the style of play?

How about the aforementioned Karl Hess? Last season:

2007-2008 ACC 20 742 37.1
2007-2008 Big East 12 455 37.9
2007-2008 SEC 6 179 29.8
2007-2008 SoCon 5 172 34.4
2007-2008 A-10 3 120 40.0
2007-2008 Big Ten 3 110 36.7
2007-2008 CAA 1 28 28.0 0.0

ACC ref or Big East ref? My point is that these guys officiate all kinds of games in all kinds of leagues. Playing OOC games at other guys home floors will not really expose you different officials. Merely different styles of play.

hurleyfor3
12-16-2008, 01:15 PM
He's probably still pissed from that whooping we laid on him a couple years ago.

I'm pissed that we peaked in December of that year.

A-Tex Devil
12-16-2008, 01:21 PM
I don't. He was a sleezeball when he was at Clemson and he remains one at texas. Coach K would never come out and rip another coach like that, even if it was a minor slight.

Oh and Rick, Arlington and Dallas are in your HOME FREAKING STATE. New York/New Jersey, despite having a lot of Duke supporters, is separated from North Carolina by about half a dozen states.

He's probably still pissed from that whooping we laid on him a couple years ago.

Sleazeball is strong (and I think wrong). The guy is hardly Jim Harrick or Calipari. He's never been in trouble with the NCAA (that I'm aware of) and has had genuinely good kids on all of his teams (even if his Clemson teams were a little bit rough and tumble on the court).

Also, Barnes' statement was made in a bit of jest -- don't know about "ripping" Coack K. And who can blame him if he'd prefer to play UNC who offered a home and home, to Duke, who did not. I'm not saying Duke should offer that up. Duke just has a different scheduling philosophy than most schools partly because it has quite a bit of leverage in dictating the terms. I like that. Still, Barnes is not wrong, and I certainly see how other fans and other coaches who would love to get a shot at Duke get frustrated.

I think the Texas program will have similar leverage soon enough. Don't forget -- they've been just as successful as Duke, if not moreso, since 2002.

A-Tex Devil
12-16-2008, 01:24 PM
While I agree with most everything that you and OlyFan have put forth in this thread, I'm going to hijack here and point out that there are not "ACC refs" anymore. As I found out on a call in show with a question to Karl Hess in 2005, the individual conferences do not have 3-man crews anymore, nor do they have "ACC refs" that are employed by the conference. Each official is contracted with a booking agent who lines up his client for different games regardless of conference. The real determining factor is where the official lives, and how far he is willing to travel.

Teddy Valentine is an ACC ref, right? Here are Teddy's games reffed last season:
Year, Conference, Games, Total fouls, Fouls per game
2007-2008 ACC 19 661 34.8
2007-2008 SEC 14 500 35.7
2007-2008 SoCon 13 346 26.6
2007-2008 Big Ten 5 134 26.8

So is Teddy an ACC ref? An SEC ref? A SoCon ref? Also note that the SEC games that he officiated avg. almost a full foul more per game, whereas Big 10 games avg. almost 8 fewer fouls. So is that difference due to the ref, or the style of play?

How about the aforementioned Karl Hess? Last season:

2007-2008 ACC 20 742 37.1
2007-2008 Big East 12 455 37.9
2007-2008 SEC 6 179 29.8
2007-2008 SoCon 5 172 34.4
2007-2008 A-10 3 120 40.0
2007-2008 Big Ten 3 110 36.7
2007-2008 CAA 1 28 28.0 0.0

ACC ref or Big East ref? My point is that these guys officiate all kinds of games in all kinds of leagues. Playing OOC games at other guys home floors will not really expose you different officials. Merely different styles of play.

I know the above is a small sample size, but did you notice that neither of those guys called any Big XII or PAC 10 games?

Though I think your general point is an important one and something I did not realize.

MulletMan
12-16-2008, 01:37 PM
I know the above is a small sample size, but did you notice that neither of those guys called any Big XII or PAC 10 games?

Though I think your general point is an important one and something I did not realize.

Absotively posolutely you are correct! I would assume that has a little to do with geographic distribution.

Let me see if I can find a few guys who've worked a more diverse set of conference slates.

Addendum: But they did work both Big Ten and Big East games, which would, I think, be the places where officiating is purported to be the most "different" from ACC games.

MulletMan
12-16-2008, 02:02 PM
Curtis Shaw

2007-2008 Big 12 17 682 40.1
2007-2008 Big East 12 457 38.1
2007-2008 ACC 7 288 41.1
2007-2008 Sun Belt 5 220 44.0
2007-2008 Missouri Valley 4 146 36.5
2007-2008 Big Ten 3 111 37.0
2007-2008 Horizon 3 122 40.7
2007-2008 C-USA 2 75 37.5

So in games where this guys officiates, there are similiar numbers of fouls called regardless of conference.

Perhaps a better way to look at it is the team by team breakdown of fouls called....

(Sorry I don't have the time to make these tables look good... all of these are taken from StatSheet.com)

Pac10
Place Team W L Pct Fouls Opp Fouls Diff
1 UCLA 35 4 0.897 14.6 18.2 -3.6 Details
2 Stanford 28 8 0.778 16.9 19.3 -2.4 Details
3 Washington State 26 9 0.743 15.3 17.4 -2.1 Details
3 USC 21 12 0.636 16.0 18.4 -2.4 Details
5 Arizona State 21 13 0.618 16.0 17.7 -1.7 Details
5 Oregon 18 14 0.563 18.3 18.3 0.0 Details
7 Arizona 19 15 0.559 16.4 18.5 -2.1 Details
8 Washington 16 17 0.485 20.5 19.2 1.3 Details
9 California 17 16 0.515 17.8 18.2 -0.4 Details
10 Oregon State 6 25 0.194 18.3 15.3 3.0 Details

ACC
Place Team W L Pct Fouls Opp Fouls Diff
1 North Carolina 36 3 0.923 16.9 20.6 -3.7 Details
2 Duke 28 6 0.824 19.2 22.3 -3.1 Details
3 Clemson 24 10 0.706 19.5 17.9 1.6 Details
4 Virginia Tech 21 14 0.6 18.9 19.9 -1.0 Details
5 Miami (FL) 23 11 0.676 18.8 19.9 -1.1 Details
5 Maryland 19 15 0.559 17.4 18.4 -1.0 Details
7 Florida State 19 15 0.559 18.9 19.3 -0.4 Details
7 Georgia Tech 15 17 0.469 22.5 21.0 1.5 Details
7 Wake Forest 17 13 0.567 19.0 18.9 0.1 Details
10 Virginia 17 16 0.515 19.5 18.8 0.7 Details
11 NC State 15 16 0.484 16.0 19.9 -3.9 Details
11 Boston College 14 17 0.452 16.7 18.9 -2.2 Details

Big 10
Place Team W L Pct Fouls Opp Fouls Diff
1 Wisconsin 31 5 0.861 14.3 20.1 -5.8 Details
2 Purdue 25 9 0.735 19.7 18.5 1.2 Details
3 Indiana 25 8 0.758 17.4 19.8 -2.4 Details
4 Michigan State 27 9 0.75 18.4 17.0 1.4 Details
5 Ohio State 24 13 0.649 14.5 15.4 -0.9 Details
6 Minnesota 20 14 0.588 18.7 17.6 1.1 Details
7 Penn State 15 16 0.484 16.4 17.8 -1.4 Details
8 Iowa 13 19 0.406 16.7 17.3 -0.6 Details
9 Michigan 10 22 0.313 15.1 15.8 -0.7 Details
9 Illinois 16 19 0.457 18.4 18.3 0.1 Details
11 Northwestern 8 22 0.267 17.8 14.7 3.1 Details \


I mean, truthfully I don't see a whole lot of differences between these conferences in the amount of fouls called. Thoughts?

Kedsy
12-16-2008, 02:52 PM
I don't. He was a sleezeball when he was at Clemson and he remains one at texas. Coach K would never come out and rip another coach like that, even if it was a minor slight.

I bet you liked it when Barnes was ripping Dean Smith? I know I did.

SilkyJ
12-16-2008, 04:06 PM
I bet you liked it when Barnes was ripping Dean Smith? I know I did.

well yea...but in that case he was only being a good christian.

77devil
12-16-2008, 06:33 PM
Sleazeball is strong (and I think wrong). The guy is hardly Jim Harrick or Calipari. He's never been in trouble with the NCAA (that I'm aware of) and has had genuinely good kids on all of his teams (even if his Clemson teams were a little bit rough and tumble on the court).

Also, Barnes' statement was made in a bit of jest -- don't know about "ripping" Coack K. And who can blame him if he'd prefer to play UNC who offered a home and home, to Duke, who did not. I'm not saying Duke should offer that up. Duke just has a different scheduling philosophy than most schools partly because it has quite a bit of leverage in dictating the terms. I like that. Still, Barnes is not wrong, and I certainly see how other fans and other coaches who would love to get a shot at Duke get frustrated.

I think the Texas program will have similar leverage soon enough. Don't forget -- they've been just as successful as Duke, if not moreso, since 2002.

How many NC teams has Rick Barnes coached? Who cares what Rick Barnes says? Texas will never have similar leverage. Rick Barnes is not a HOF coach with 3 NCs and never will be. It's Coach K's body of work that produces the leverage.

devildownunder
12-16-2008, 07:10 PM
Aside from the fact a team can never, ever be hurt by having the experience of facing the toughest possible competition (unless it finishes with a losing record and out of the postseason), being willing to play people in their back yard proves to your own fan base -- not other people -- that you are not afraid of playing anybody, anywhere. And I like feeling that way. I did feel that way in the 80s and 90s. I don't feel that way anymore.

Just sayin'.

I will agree with one point that has been made many times on this thread by people defending our current coaching philosophy -- Who cares what Rick Barnes says?! He's a whiny tool.

BlueintheFace
12-16-2008, 07:14 PM
well yea...but in that case he was only being a good christian.

hahaha, oh my. Post of the day.

A-Tex Devil
12-16-2008, 08:55 PM
How many NC teams has Rick Barnes coached? Who cares what Rick Barnes says? Texas will never have similar leverage. Rick Barnes is not a HOF coach with 3 NCs and never will be. It's Coach K's body of work that produces the leverage.

Calm down. I'm not talking about leverage against Duke. I'm talking about leverage to be able to schedule like Duke. I don't have a problem with how Duke schedules, but understand why other schools who would like to play Duke do.

ugadevil
12-16-2008, 09:23 PM
People on here criticize Rick Barnes for saying something about Coach K because he hasn't won 3 national championships. So...which poster who's criticizing Barnes has taken their team to the Elite 8 in two of the past three years?

ACCBBallFan
12-17-2008, 12:35 AM
The only disadvantage to not scheduling OOC road games is the first couple of ACC road venues. UNC game is always last, so 3-4 road games under their belt even when the first match is away.

OOC is preparation for ACC and ACC is preparation for NCAAs.

throatybeard
12-17-2008, 12:57 AM
I'm not worried about how the lack of OOC road games affects us or doesn't affect us in the postseason.

It just makes us look like we think we're too good for everyone else. Like our poo doesn't stink. That's what I hate.

ice-9
12-17-2008, 01:57 AM
While I agree road games in the ACC are tough and make for good preparation, an argument can still be made for scheduling OOC road games.

The thing with in-conference games is that you face the same teams year after year; for the upperclassmen especially, playing in the Dean Dome becomes a familiar if not relatively comfortable experience.

True OOC games that don't recur continuously can provide that feeling of newness and hostility that we would face in the NCAA tournament.

mo.st.dukie
12-17-2008, 02:34 AM
I'm not worried about how the lack of OOC road games affects us or doesn't affect us in the postseason.

It just makes us look like we think we're too good for everyone else. Like our poo doesn't stink. That's what I hate.

Why? Duke has a home and home with G'Town, Davidson, St. Johns, Michigan, and had one with Temple, BTW is that series done? Of course G'Town, St. Johns and Temple play their big time games in NBA arenas and I think Davidson chose to play in Charlotte last year. Plus, wasn't there talk about a Duke/Memphis home and home?

BlueintheFace
12-17-2008, 03:05 AM
People on here criticize Rick Barnes for saying something about Coach K because he hasn't won 3 national championships. So...which poster who's criticizing Barnes has taken their team to the Elite 8 in two of the past three years?

relevance?

77devil
12-17-2008, 11:31 AM
Calm down. I'm not talking about leverage against Duke. I'm talking about leverage to be able to schedule like Duke. I don't have a problem with how Duke schedules, but understand why other schools who would like to play Duke do.

I am very calm and understood you perfectly. I too was referring to Barne's leverage to schedule like Duke.

adam
12-17-2008, 12:30 PM
Duke later played Portland in Portland, but again, it was in the Rose Garden and not on campus. It was a homecoming game for Mike Dunleavy and the crowd wasn't very hostile.

I went to that game. It was one of the only chances I've had to see Duke play since they rarely play out West.

(Hint, hint... Please schedule more west coast games... cough, cough).

:)

Go Duke!!!