ACC Roundup - Conference Play begins this Week

[gw67]

ACC teams play 19 games this week through the weekend. It includes the first conference game this season, Clemson @ Miami on Sunday. Most figure these two teams to be upper tier teams in the conference and the game ought to be very competitive as each team tries to make a statement. In addition, there are some OOC games with competitive (non-cupcake) opposition:

Duke – Xavier
Auburn @ Virginia
Georgia Tech @ Pepperdine
Pitt @ Florida State

I expect the Devils to prevail in the Meadowlands. Some on this board have suggested that the Noles will be better than predicted this year. Playing a Top Five team at home will give them an opportunity to show that they can play with good teams. IMO, they will have a difficult time staying within 10 points of the Panthers although I would love to see an upset over a Big East team.

gw67

[Klemnop]

I'd just like to poke my head out here for a second and thank everyone for not talking about Clemson. Folks in the upstate of SC are perfectly happy for the Tigers to be a completely anonymous 10-0 at this point. This actually qualifies as progress at Clemson because for the first time in my entire lifetime as a Tiger fan I'm not hearing anyone say, "Well, Clemson is 10-0...but look at that cupcake schedule they've played." Not that the schedule has been great - but good enough to shed the perception that the record is entirely inflated. I'm guessing the fact that Oliver Purnell has established himself has helped deflect some of that type of criticism.

Not that I think it will matter much in the grand scheme of the conference championship but I'd also like to thank the ACC for the 2008-2009 schedule while I've got the opportunity. After 20 years of taking what appeared to me (as a biased Clemson fan) as the short end of the conference scheduling stick the Tigers are going to go through this year's conference slate with an embarassingly favorable schedule:

@ UNC - NO home and home; vs. Duke - NO home and home; @Miami - NO home and home

If you're keeping track on your personal scorecard, that's a total of three games against what are, arguably, the three best conference opponents the Tigers could face. Perhaps Wake is in that conversation too...but even there the Tigers don't have to travel to LJVM until the final conference game of the season - by which time they will have had ample chance to move themselves firmly into NCAA position.

By the time the Tigers have to travel to Tally to play FSU on 2/28 I see an outstanding chance that they're 10-3 in conference. Assuming even some slippage they should easily be 8-5 - with a home game against UVa sandwiched in between road trips to FSU and Wake.

Toss in a good raod win @ Ill. and a neutral-court win over Temple along with two more SEC games (@So.Carolina and vs. Alabama) and it would appear to me that the Tigers have an excellent shot at a Top 4 NCAA seed.

It is simply amazing how far things have come under OP. Indescribable. And the most amazing thing, I say again, is that nobody is even noticing. Which is just fine with me.

[jv001]

I'd just like to poke my head out here for a second and thank everyone for not talking about Clemson. Folks in the upstate of SC are perfectly happy for the Tigers to be a completely anonymous 10-0 at this point. This actually qualifies as progress at Clemson because for the first time in my entire lifetime as a Tiger fan I'm not hearing anyone say, "Well, Clemson is 10-0...but look at that cupcake schedule they've played." Not that the schedule has been great - but good enough to shed the perception that the record is entirely inflated. I'm guessing the fact that Oliver Purnell has established himself has helped deflect some of that type of criticism.

Not that I think it will matter much in the grand scheme of the conference championship but I'd also like to thank the ACC for the 2008-2009 schedule while I've got the opportunity. After 20 years of taking what appeared to me (as a biased Clemson fan) as the short end of the conference scheduling stick the Tigers are going to go through this year's conference slate with an embarassingly favorable schedule:

@ UNC - NO home and home; vs. Duke - NO home and home; @Miami - NO home and home

If you're keeping track on your personal scorecard, that's a total of three games against what are, arguably, the three best conference opponents the Tigers could face. Perhaps Wake is in that conversation too...but even there the Tigers don't have to travel to LJVM until the final conference game of the season - by which time they will have had ample chance to move themselves firmly into NCAA position.

By the time the Tigers have to travel to Tally to play FSU on 2/28 I see an outstanding chance that they're 10-3 in conference. Assuming even some slippage they should easily be 8-5 - with a home game against UVa sandwiched in between road trips to FSU and Wake.

Toss in a good raod win @ Ill. and a neutral-court win over Temple along with two more SEC games (@So.Carolina and vs. Alabama) and it would appear to me that the Tigers have an excellent shot at a Top 4 NCAA seed.

It is simply amazing how far things have come under OP. Indescribable. And the most amazing thing, I say again, is that nobody is even noticing. Which is just fine with me.

I hate that trip we have to take to Clemson every year. Even when you had nothing, it seemed the games went down to the wire. This year you have a good team and we had better bring our A game. Go Duke!

[Indoor66]

I'd just like to poke my head out here for a second and thank everyone for not talking about Clemson. Folks in the upstate of SC are perfectly happy for the Tigers to be a completely anonymous 10-0 at this point. This actually qualifies as progress at Clemson because for the first time in my entire lifetime as a Tiger fan I'm not hearing anyone say, "Well, Clemson is 10-0...but look at that cupcake schedule they've played." Not that the schedule has been great - but good enough to shed the perception that the record is entirely inflated. I'm guessing the fact that Oliver Purnell has established himself has helped deflect some of that type of criticism.

Not that I think it will matter much in the grand scheme of the conference championship but I'd also like to thank the ACC for the 2008-2009 schedule while I've got the opportunity. After 20 years of taking what appeared to me (as a biased Clemson fan) as the short end of the conference scheduling stick the Tigers are going to go through this year's conference slate with an embarassingly favorable schedule:

@ UNC - NO home and home; vs. Duke - NO home and home; @Miami - NO home and home

If you're keeping track on your personal scorecard, that's a total of three games against what are, arguably, the three best conference opponents the Tigers could face. Perhaps Wake is in that conversation too...but even there the Tigers don't have to travel to LJVM until the final conference game of the season - by which time they will have had ample chance to move themselves firmly into NCAA position.

By the time the Tigers have to travel to Tally to play FSU on 2/28 I see an outstanding chance that they're 10-3 in conference. Assuming even some slippage they should easily be 8-5 - with a home game against UVa sandwiched in between road trips to FSU and Wake.

Toss in a good raod win @ Ill. and a neutral-court win over Temple along with two more SEC games (@So.Carolina and vs. Alabama) and it would appear to me that the Tigers have an excellent shot at a Top 4 NCAA seed.

It is simply amazing how far things have come under OP. Indescribable. And the most amazing thing, I say again, is that nobody is even noticing. Which is just fine with me.

Good thoughts. Clemson should have a solid year.

Don't be a stranger, Klem

[gw67]

Klem, it is good to hear from you. I note that the Tigers are rated 1st in the RPI and 9th in Sagarin. Your points about this year’s schedule are born out by the 6th best SOS in the RPI. From the stats, it appears that Booker, Rivers and Oglesby have gotten off to good starts. Thanks for the input on the conference schedule. Maryland is at the opposite end. They play each of top teams two times. Your first game is a big one and a win at Miami would be huge. I might add that top ACC teams also have a bullseye on their chests for the Virginia Tech’s and Maryland’s of the conference so I would not take any team lightly.

Good luck.

gw67

[msdukie]

I thought Miami was in the Big East???...

:mad:

[ACCBBallFan]

At this point, I see Clemson as 4th in ACC and about a 6 seed in NCAAs. VA Tech who I thought could challenge the Tigers is cooked.

Clemson has the easiest unbalanced ACC schedule only playing UNC, Duke, Miami and MD once, (only tough ACC team Clemson plays twice is Wake) which should help overall ACC standings, but would hurt if Clemson were to be on the bubble.

Clemson is very good as is Miami-FL but ACC has 3 top 10 teams.

Rank Points Schedule Conference Comments
01 7165 J21 ACC UNC
006 6376 F04 ACC Duke split w Mich
009 5668 J17/M08 ACC Wake Forest
023 4416 ------- ACC Clemson
027 3950 D21 ACC Miami-Fl lost to tOSU, beat UK
036 3738 F17 ACC Maryland beat Mich St
038 3647 F07/F28 ACC FSU beat FL & Calif, lost to NW
052 3448 F10 ACC BC beat UAB,lost to SLU
066 3282 J29/F25 ACC Va Tech lost to GA, Wisc, Seton Hall Xav
087 3273 J25/F22 ACC GA Tech lost to Penn St & Ill-Chic beat Vandy
103 2722 J10 ACC NC St
118 2549 F15/M03 ACC UVA lost to Liberty, MN & Syr

Clemson should wins its remaining OOC, but pretty weak schedule would hurt if anywhere near the bubble, which I do not think they will be:

Rank Points Margin Conference Comments
032 3850 -2 B10 Illinois lost to Clemson
051 3452 -4 A10 Temple beat Syr & Penn St lost to Buffalo & Clemson
075 3088 -29 CAA Hofstra lost to Clemson
079 3228 D30 SEC So Carol lost to Charleston, beat Jax St
099 2748 -12 MWC TCU lost to Ind, Charlest, Nebr & Clemson
114 2589 -5 BS Liberty beat UVA & G Mason, lost to UNC- Ashev & Clemson
121 2521 J03 CUSA E. Carolina beat VCU
131 2483 J06 SEC Alabama beat St. Jos & lost to Mercer, Tx A&M
165 2132 -53 Southern Wofford lost to Clemson

I did not bring this up because the Clemson fan asked that we not do that, but rather because it could be a factor in their NCAA seeeding.

[Faison1]

KLEMNOP!!!!! Any plans for streaking this year?!?! Probably not.....but you never know.....just like love...when you least expect it, it happens. I'm rooting for you, and all the folks who would see you running down Franklin.

[duketaylor]

Always love your input and insight into Klemson hoops. I agree that OP has done a great job, I always thought he wqas a great hire. Wish you guys well, except when you play us. Hoops is getting ready to ramp up, let's have some fun!! 9F!!

[ncexnyc]

Please get back to us when and if your team ever manages to beat UNC.

[Bob Green]

Please get back to us when and if your team ever manages to beat UNC.

Clemson has defeated UNC 19 times.

[ddsdevil]

Looking forward to seeing some ACC games. This is when the season will finally begin to take shape. It's hard to know how teams like Wake, Miami, or even Duke for that matter will match-up with other ACC teams because of schedules. I fear that Wake will prove to be a tough win this season. They have a game against ECU and BYU that should tell us a little about them before ACC play.

[ACCBBallFan]

http://kenpom.com/sked.php?y=2009&team=North%20Carolina&t=p

http://kenpom.com/sked.php?y=2009&team=Duke&t=p

Ken Pomeroy's score predictions are blow out tonight, no surprise there and close victory vs Xavier:

Wed Dec 17 Duke vs. (283) NC Asheville (sr) Home W, 100-58[75] (100%)

Sat Dec 20 Duke vs. (16) Xavier (sr) Neutral (East Rutherford, NJ) W, 71-67[73] (65%)

Ken Pomeroy ACC predictions have Wake quite a bitter lower than many are predicting, and MD/ GA Tech/BC a bit higher than many, with 6 ACC teams dancing.

14-02 UNC (2)
12-04 Duke (6)
11-05 Clemson (18) has easiest unbalanced ACC Schedule

10-06 Miami (26)
09-07 MD (28)
09-07 Wake (32)

07-09 GA Tech (51)
07-09 BC (63)

05-11 FSU (77)
05-11 VA Tech (84)

04-12 NC St (97)
02-14 UVA (132)

Pomeroy has Georgetown as # 1 team at this point, with UNC #2 and Duke #6.

1 Georgetown BE 7-1 .
2 North Carolina ACC 9-0
3 Pittsburgh BE 10-0
4 Gonzaga WCC 7-1
5 Louisville BE 6-1
6 Duke ACC 8-1 .
7 Ohio St. B10 6-0
8 Connecticut BE 9-0
9 Missouri B12 8-1
10 Oklahoma B12 10-0

11 Memphis CUSA 5-2
12 Brigham Young MWC 10-0
13 Baylor B12 8-1
14 Purdue B10 8-2
15 Kansas B12 7-2 .
16 Xavier A10 9-0 .
17 Utah St. WAC 6-1
18 Clemson ACC 11-0 .
19 Northwestern B10 7-1
20 Tennessee SEC 7-2 .

[Klemnop]

If I'm a Duke fan I've got to be thinking one of two things:
1) Thank god Clemson just had their "ungodly half of raining threes on a conference opponent" against someone other than us.
2) Oh, SH!T

Last week I posted that I didn't think it would make a difference in the grand scheme of the conference standings that Clemson has an embarassingly easy row to hoe in the 2008-09 conference schedule. I take it back. I can now see that the discrepancy between the schedule that Duke and Clemson have to play may become a major source of contention - exacerbated by the fact that the only game (regular season) that Duke and Clemson play head-to-head will be down at Littlejohn.

As this season progresses please remember this: Clemson has been shafted by the ACC (in hoops) for my entire lifetime as a Clemson fan - dating back to 1987. In retrospect I'm findng that once you become one of the top three/four teams it is a weird anamoly that your schedule appears relatively easier...because you don't have to play yourself. (This is a BRAND NEW thought to Clemson basketball fans!) I'm sure GaTech is sitting there thinking how unfair it is that they have to play Clemson twice but only get one game against UVa.

Also remember that I'm the same old lovable Klemnop I've always been. I didn't come onto DBR posting any trash talk after the ACC Semifinals last season and won't ever forget my humble beginnings - and the kindness of the DBR family through these many years.

<shakes head in disbelief at the end result from last night's game>

Klem

[jv001]

If I'm a Duke fan I've got to be thinking one of two things:
1) Thank god Clemson just had their "ungodly half of raining threes on a conference opponent" against someone other than us.
2) Oh, SH!T

Last week I posted that I didn't think it would make a difference in the grand scheme of the conference standings that Clemson has an embarassingly easy row to hoe in the 2008-09 conference schedule. I take it back. I can now see that the discrepancy between the schedule that Duke and Clemson have to play may become a major source of contention - exacerbated by the fact that the only game (regular season) that Duke and Clemson play head-to-head will be down at Littlejohn.

As this season progresses please remember this: Clemson has been shafted by the ACC (in hoops) for my entire lifetime as a Clemson fan - dating back to 1987. In retrospect I'm findng that once you become one of the top three/four teams it is a weird anamoly that your schedule appears relatively easier...because you don't have to play yourself. (This is a BRAND NEW thought to Clemson basketball fans!) I'm sure GaTech is sitting there thinking how unfair it is that they have to play Clemson twice but only get one game against UVa.

Also remember that I'm the same old lovable Klemnop I've always been. I didn't come onto DBR posting any trash talk after the ACC Semifinals last season and won't ever forget my humble beginnings - and the kindness of the DBR family through these many years.

<shakes head in disbelief at the end result from last night's game>

Klem

Good post Klem and good luck this year(except against Duke). Go Duke!

[gw67]

Klem,

The Tigers played very well last night. I commented on their play in another thread (ACC Roundup 12/22). It's very early but the win last night should help them move up in the polls and stamp them as one of the top 3-4 teams in the conference.
gw67

[ncexnyc]

Clemson has defeated UNC 19 times.
I believe the phrase is, "what have you done for me lately."
Talking about past Clemson victories over UNC, is akin to a Cubs fan talking about the last time they won the World Series. I believe it's 53 straight losses at Chapel Hill and the last Clemson win was during the 03-04 season.

Clemson CHOKED not once, not twice, but three times last year against the Heels. They need to beat UNC now while the window of opportunity is open for them.

[Klemnop]

The failed premise is that Clemson wants to beat UNC at Chapel Hill. We don't. We might think we do but we really don't. As I've said 100 times over it's almost more pathetic to consider a record of 1-62 or 1-74 (or whatever the streak will have run to at whatever time the Apocalypse is upon us) than to just be 0-fer-Forever. 0-Fer is interesting. 0-Fer is beyond embarassing, almost compelling. 0-Fer has some style to it.

Not to mention - IT WON'T EVER HAPPEN. This is the reason I was so willing to make my original assertion some twenty years ago. In fact, come to think of it, this is the 19 year anniversary of my original "bet". No way Clemson breaks the streak in the 19th year. If it was truly meant to happen it would surely happen in the 20th year. Or the 50th. Or the centennial.

All that said, it's more than a little condescending to call Clemson "chokers" or anything else derogatory with regard to last year's performance against UNC. Clemson played UNC to one OT at Littlejohn, to two OTs at UNC and stayed within shouting distance for the entirety of the ACC Final. Last year's Clemson team had the remarkable ability to go completely ballistic for 10 minutes or go completely in the tank. Unfortunately they tanked for 10 minutes @ Chapel Hill. And again when they were +18 on 'Nova in the NCAAs. On the flip side, ask the Twerps if they think Clemson were "chokers". The dagger that Clemson drove into Maryland was stunning at the end of last year.

Klem

[pfrduke]

I believe the phrase is, "what have you done for me lately."
Talking about past Clemson victories over UNC, is akin to a Cubs fan talking about the last time they won the World Series. I believe it's 53 straight losses at Chapel Hill and the last Clemson win was during the 03-04 season.

Clemson CHOKED not once, not twice, but three times last year against the Heels. They need to beat UNC now while the window of opportunity is open for them.

Fans of teams with a history of losing 17-point leads in critical games should look twice before throwing the choke label at others. Glass houses and all.

Fact is, Clemson played one of the best 2-3 teams in the country essentially even last season. They appear to have the horses and game plan to make trouble again this year. And judging a team's relative merits on whether or not they can beat one particular opponent in that opponent's building is beyond silly.

[ncexnyc]

Fans of teams with a history of losing 17-point leads in critical games should look twice before throwing the choke label at others. Glass houses and all.

Fact is, Clemson played one of the best 2-3 teams in the country essentially even last season. They appear to have the horses and game plan to make trouble again this year. And judging a team's relative merits on whether or not they can beat one particular opponent in that opponent's building is beyond silly.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, however as I've pointed out in another thread, close doesn't count, you either win or lose. Clemson lost all 3 games against UNC last year and if the second game wasn't a choke job, then there is no such thing.

They talk about programs like UNC and Duke reloading, while others rebuild and that's probably true to a certain extent. If you look at some of the teams within the ACC over the last decade you'll see this to be true. BC, GT, MD and VT all had some exceptional teams, with the Terps winning it all and Tech making the Championship game, but where are those two teams now?

Clemson has a great deal of talent, but I firmly believe that if they want to move up to the next level, they need to get the UNC monkey off their back. Like Ric Flair used to say, "To be the man, you've got to beat the man.WOOOOO!"