MBB vs. Xavier Pre-Game and In-Game Thread

[gumbomoop]

Thoughts on Xavier?

Mine: Having seen the very active Georgetown thread, my sense is that we have prior priorities. I don't know whether X deserves their top-10 ranking, but they have 7 guys who play hard, at least against Cincy last eve. Hard to judge on that game, as the mutual hatred was palpable, evidenced by 5 technicals. So I'd guess they won't come to NJ next Sat despising Duke in exactly the same way they obviously despise Cincy, but just with the normal Duke-hatred, which is instense enough, "We get everyone's best game," etc.

They've played a pretty solid schedule. I realize they lucked out against a so-far mysterious VT, but they beat a good-not-great Memphis and a couple of other ok teams. But mostly I'm just thinking about how fierce they played last eve, tough, tough defense (on maybe an inferior ballhandling team?), active rebounding, probably no go-to guy but pretty blalanced scoring.

So, I definitely no longer think what I thought when I first saw this matchup on our schedule: "Couldn't we get a better, higher-profile game?" X now strikes me as a very worthy opponent.

[Cormac]

Thoughts on Xavier?

Mine: Having seen the very active Georgetown thread, my sense is that we have prior priorities. I don't know whether X deserves their top-10 ranking, but they have 7 guys who play hard, at least against Cincy last eve. Hard to judge on that game, as the mutual hatred was palpable, evidenced by 5 technicals. So I'd guess they won't come to NJ next Sat despising Duke in exactly the same way they obviously despise Cincy, but just with the normal Duke-hatred, which is instense enough, "We get everyone's best game," etc.

They've played a pretty solid schedule. I realize they lucked out against a so-far mysterious VT, but they beat a good-not-great Memphis and a couple of other ok teams. But mostly I'm just thinking about how fierce they played last eve, tough, tough defense (on maybe an inferior ballhandling team?), active rebounding, probably no go-to guy but pretty blalanced scoring.

So, I definitely no longer think what I thought when I first saw this matchup on our schedule: "Couldn't we get a better, higher-profile game?" X now strikes me as a very worthy opponent.

Not sure where you got "inferior" from. X has been to two elite eights since 2004. Thats more than Duke has been to. Duke knocked them out in 04, when X's best big man fouled out on a terrible call with 10 minutes to go. Otherwise, we may have seen X in the final four. Also, two years ago, they lost to OSU in overtime when a kid from OSU hit a three to send it into to overtime. They outplayed them the whole game (when they had Oden and Conley) an should have won. They also beat WVU in the tournament last year (the team that knocked Duke out). They are very consistent year in and year out. They pretty much win at least 20 games every year and have been to like 17 tournaments in the last 25 years. Not bad for a supposed "mid-major" (Like Gonzaga, they aren't. They can hang with the big boys). I expect Duke to win, but dont be surprised if this is a dog fight (assuming Derrick Brown can play after being ejected from the Cincy game last night). Duke has a HUGE advantage at the 1 and slight advantages at the 2 and 4. The benches are pretty even and Xavier probably has an advantage at the 3 (Derrick Brown is being talked about as a first round pick. He's very, very good and very long and athletic). I would give the 5 to Xavier as well. Jason Love is a better defender and rebounder than anyone on Duke at the 5. They also bring a 7fter off the bench who is serviceable. Should be a heck of a game. Xavier has some great forwards, but they struggle to shoot the three, much like Duke has this year. Should be fun, and i'll be happy regardless of who wins! :D

[Bob Green]

Xavier is a tough team that plays in the very good Atlantic 10 Conference. We all know the tough game Rhode Island gave us at Cameron. This weekend UMass traveled to Lawrence and knocked off Kansas while Temple defeated Tennessee. Hopefully Derrick Brown will play in the game against Duke as I desire for Xavier to be at full strength. What were the circumstances surrounding his ejection? I only watched the first eight or nine minutes of the game which was long enough to see the first technical called. Cincinnati's Yates was "T" upped after being head butted by Xavier's Frease. Words were exchanged before and after the head butt and it appeared the Ref completely missed the head butt.

[gumbomoop]

Sorry, Cormac, for my imprecision re the word "inferior." I meant to wonder just how good X's fierce defense was, given that Cincy [not X] seemed maybe an inferior ballhandling team. (I should have said "against" rather than "on.") But I'm convinced X's defense is real.

More generally, I both welcome the info you've provided and do appreciate how solid X has been in recent years; but I didn't realize, given the fact that they graduated several good very good players, that they'd be so good this year. I'm not exactly the only one, as I think they were marginal top-40 but not top-25 pre-season projected. And, again, I admit I was wrong in thinking Duke "deserved" (?) a higher-profile opponent, for clearly X, not G'town, presents the next strong test. [Forgive me, UNC-A advocates.]

[Saratoga2]

Xavier is a tough team that plays in the very good Atlantic 10 Conference. We all know the tough game Rhode Island gave us at Cameron. This weekend UMass traveled to Lawrence and knocked off Kansas while Temple defeated Tennessee. Hopefully Derrick Brown will play in the game against Duke as I desire for Xavier to be at full strength. What were the circumstances surrounding his ejection? I only watched the first eight or nine minutes of the game which was long enough to see the first technical called. Cincinnati's Yates was "T" upped after being head butted by Xavier's Frease. Words were exchanged before and after the head butt and it appeared the Ref completely missed the head butt.

Having watched them against Cincy, I fully respect their defense. Cincy was seldom open and ran no fast breaks. Xavier is good on offense, gets the fast breaks and is tenacious rebounding. I think Duke will be the underdog in that game. It will be a great win if we can do it.

[Devilhawks]

Having watched them against Cincy, I fully respect their defense. Cincy was seldom open and ran no fast breaks. Xavier is good on offense, gets the fast breaks and is tenacious rebounding. I think Duke will be the underdog in that game. It will be a great win if we can do it.

I respect Xavier as well, but I cannot think of any possible combination of results between now and 12/20 that would lead Xavier to be the Vegas favorite in that game.

[Cormac]

Sorry, Cormac, for my imprecision re the word "inferior." I meant to wonder just how good X's fierce defense was, given that Cincy [not X] seemed maybe an inferior ballhandling team. (I should have said "against" rather than "on.") But I'm convinced X's defense is real.

More generally, I both welcome the info you've provided and do appreciate how solid X has been in recent years; but I didn't realize, given the fact that they graduated several good very good players, that they'd be so good this year. I'm not exactly the only one, as I think they were marginal top-40 but not top-25 pre-season projected. And, again, I admit I was wrong in thinking Duke "deserved" (?) a higher-profile opponent, for clearly X, not G'town, presents the next strong test. [Forgive me, UNC-A advocates.]

No problem! I just enjoy defending my X-men. They make us proud (last night not withstanding). But, those two teams hate each other. Imagine the hatred of the Duke UNC rivalry contained withing a 3 mile distance. Add to the fact that Xavier beat UC twice when they were ranked #1 in the country in the 90s and now the roles are reversed (X isn't the underdog anymore) and you can see the disdain.

And like you said, UC is very weak at the pg spot. Their projected starter (who I think is just a freshman) is redshirting after blowing out his knee in the off season. So yeah, Xavier got some help there.

Bob, to answer your question, Brown got his second T on a totally boneheaded move (aren't they usually?). Anyway, with a little over 2 minutes to go I think, he got fouled, turned around, and started jawing right in some kid's grill. Easy call as the ref was about 5 feet away. He completely deserved it. Could have made the game a lot closer too, but luckily it didn't hurt them.

Duke won't be the underdogs, but I would guess the line won't be too big either. Should be a heck of a game. Xavier plays the Packline defense to perfection (What UCLA, Wisconsin, and Pitt play). Its designed to eliminate the dribble drive and entry passes to the post. But it does give up some threes. Not sure this is a good thing for Duke right now. :p If this is a low scoring game (under 80) then Xavier has a real shot. If this game gets up in the 80s, 90s, I expect Duke to win comfortably in the end. X just doesn't have that kind of fire power. Plus Duke should be able to press and create easy scoring opportunities with Xavier lacking a solid PG. Dante Jackson is the starter and he's got good size (listed at 6'5") but he is not a PG. Definitely at two and it shows at times.

Is there an NCAA rule on being ejected from a game? Is there a nationally mandated suspension, or is it up to each conference/coach? I'm hoping Brown doesn't have to miss the Duke game. He's a heck of a player with NBA talent.

[trinity92]

Xavier plays the Packline defense to perfection (What UCLA, Wisconsin, and Pitt play). Its designed to eliminate the dribble drive and entry passes to the post. But it does give up some threes. Not sure this is a good thing for Duke right now. :p

UGH-- sounds exactly like the defense that gave us fits at Michigan. I saw Xavier play earlier this year and they looked long and athletic. Well at least if we go down, I'll have a good view at the Izod center.

[Cormac]

UGH-- sounds exactly like the defense that gave us fits at Michigan. I saw Xavier play earlier this year and they looked long and athletic. Well at least if we go down, I'll have a good view at the Izod center.

Xavier starts 6'5", 6'6", 6'6", 6"8", and 6'9". They bring 6'0", 6'8" and 7'0" off the bench. They really only go 8 deep, maybe 9. Duke should have more depth, depending on how many K decides to play, but I think overall production should be fairly similar. I think Xavier has more bench production in the post, while Duke should have the backcourt advantage.

[devildownunder]

Much appreciate the insights on this thread. I'm really looking forward to this game and I hope it leads to more contests with Xavier in the future. That's a solid program with a good young coach in Sean Miller. I'd love to see us play them more.

[The1Bluedevil]

Be interesting to see how Brown is used in the game. Though NBA wise he is a 3 he plays the 4 for them. Will he be isolated more on the block trying to get Kyle in foul trouble or spread the floor out and let Love operate in the post?

[Kim*]

UGH-- sounds exactly like the defense that gave us fits at Michigan. I saw Xavier play earlier this year and they looked long and athletic. Well at least if we go down, I'll have a good view at the Izod center.
Haha, same here.

I think it's going to be a hell of a fight, to be honest.

[JDev]

But, those two teams hate each other. Imagine the hatred of the Duke UNC rivalry contained withing a 3 mile distance. Add to the fact that Xavier beat UC twice when they were ranked #1 in the country in the 90s and now the roles are reversed

Because Duke and UNC are so far away from one another, and rarely ranked high in the polls :)
Just kidding around. In all seriousness, great insights, and it sounds like it is going to be a terrific game. From the way you describe X's defense, it sounds like a lot will be predicated on whether or not Duke can get into a good shooting rhythm and knock some long range shots down, which has not been a strength thus far. Duke needs a break-out shooting game, and this seems like the perfect time to get it. We will see.

[xumuskie08]

Look forward to this game. I know you guys have got a game in between that you have to think about it, but with nothing between us and Duke except the next 4 days, I can worry about the game all week!

This game is absolutely HUGE for Xavier. I'm pretty good friends with a couple of guys on the team and they have been waiting for this game since we lost in the tournament last year to UCLA. They are looking at it as a statement game, basically to officially show the nation that they belong on the national stage and feel like they have a real shot at winning the game.

I've seen Duke twice this season already, albeit 2 completely different Duke teams. I was raised a Michigan fan so I still follow Michigan basketball, but Xavier became my #1 squad once I went there.

Anyways, i was just introducing myself to the board and would love to answer any questions that you have about X.

[Bob Green]

Anyways, i was just introducing myself to the board and would love to answer any questions that you have about X.

Is there any fallout from Derrick Brown being ejected from the Cincinnati game? I want Xavier at full strength for the game as I believe these tough OOC games are great for the team come March. Any insight on this situation would be appreciated.

[Masterofreality]

Big Xavier fan here. I come in peace from Cleveland, Ohio.

We Xavier fans don't hate Duke. Yeah, we hate the fact that you guys knocked us out of 2 NCAA Tournaments, but that happens. Maybe if I was a North Carolina student, grad or fan I'd think about Duke like Cincinnati myopians do about Xavier, but I'm not there. Rather...

Most of us see Duke as something to respect and aspire to become more like.

Xavier and Duke are more alike than different. Duke is a private school with only 6,300 undergrads. Xavier has 4,000. Both are a exceptional academic institutions. You have a beautiful campus, ours is nice and getting a whole lot better with a $200 million expansion and facelift. You guys have a great basketball program with tradition and have never had a hint of probation, criminality or shadiness. While we don't have the national championships or Final 4's yet, our kids go to class, major in legitimate courses of study and graduate. We don't do things shady or borderline because the administration, alumni and coaches won't tolerate it. You have a great old-time on-campus basketball building with a loyal coach who has a great basketball mind. We have a beautiful 10,500 seat, $44 milion on-campus arena built with mostly alumni donations 8 years ago that is 1 minute walk from the dorms. We finally have a great basketball minded coach who is loyal to Xavier and will be sticking around for a very long time. You have a knowledgeable, enthusiatic and dedicated fanbase as do we, albeit we are still more local. I hope you remember how many Xavier people there were in Atlanta in 2004. That was only a part of the strong Xavier fanbase following. We are dedicated and loyal to our great school that always makes us proud.

Does Duke get the benefit of all kinds of media hype and publicity? Do they get recruits salivating to go there? Do they hardly ever play an away game? Sure, but they earned it. Guess what? Xavier is only playing 3 true non-conference road games this year- one against the hated Bearkitties. Duke had to build from the ground up, but you got started earlier than Xavier. You've been damn good with 3 national championships in the last 20 years, and 12 total Final Fours- that's why you've earned it. Now that you've been on top for so long, people want to all take pot-shots at you. Many outsiders are sick and tired of Duke being good just like u d-ump (dayton) and Cincinnati fans (our biggest rivals) are sick of Xavier being good. Duke gets all the crap that Xavier is starting to get, only a lot more of it and on a national rather than regional basis. Recognize that the pot-shots are given out of envy in both cases. We'll remember that when Xavier reaches the top and stays there for 20 years like you guys have.

In any event, we respect Duke. We want to be more like you. We want Xavier to be in the Midwest what Duke is in the Southeast- and Xavier can be so. Do we want to beat you guys on Saturday? Hell yeah, you know it. Xavier will win if it is good enough, and I think we might be, although we are coming off of exams this week. But to me, I don't and won't hate Duke and the vast majority of Xavier fans won't either. Our aspiration would be for Duke to be spelled X-A-V-I-E-R in our part of the country.

Good luck the rest of the year- after Saturday.

[Masterofreality]

No fallout on Brown. It wasn't an ejection for fighting or any of that. He got two techs for answering UC trash talking and, quite frankly, I thought that Tim Higgins was way too strict on the "T"'s. Brown was, in essence disqualified for 2 techs, similar to if you foul out with 5 fouls. There is no carryover effect from that unless there are flagrant extenuating circumstances that were not present here.

DBrown is eilgible and will play on Saturday. XU will be at full strength, although this is exam week, and our kids really do go to class and have real majors to worry about.

[Cormac]

Big Xavier fan here. I come in peace from Cleveland, Ohio.

We Xavier fans don't hate Duke. Yeah, we hate the fact that you guys knocked us out of 2 NCAA Tournaments, but that happens. Maybe if I was a North Carolina student, grad or fan I'd think about Duke like Cincinnati myopians do about Xavier, but I'm not there. Rather...

Most of us see Duke as something to respect and aspire to become more like.

Xavier and Duke are more alike than different. Duke is a private school with only 6,300 undergrads. Xavier has 4,000. Both are a exceptional academic institutions. You have a beautiful campus, ours is nice and getting a whole lot better with a $200 million expansion and facelift. You guys have a great basketball program with tradition and have never had a hint of probation, criminality or shadiness. While we don't have the national championships or Final 4's yet, our kids go to class, major in legitimate courses of study and graduate. We don't do things shady or borderline because the administration, alumni and coaches won't tolerate it. You have a great old-time on-campus basketball building with a loyal coach who has a great basketball mind. We have a beautiful 10,500 seat, $44 milion on-campus arena built with mostly alumni donations 8 years ago that is 1 minute walk from the dorms. We finally have a great basketball minded coach who is loyal to Xavier and will be sticking around for a very long time. You have a knowledgeable, enthusiatic and dedicated fanbase as do we, albeit we are still more local. I hope you remember how many Xavier people there were in Atlanta in 2004. That was only a part of the strong Xavier fanbase following. We are dedicated and loyal to our great school that always makes us proud.

Does Duke get the benefit of all kinds of media hype and publicity? Do they get recruits salivating to go there? Do they hardly ever play an away game? Sure, but they earned it. Guess what? Xavier is only playing 3 true non-conference road games this year- one against the hated Bearkitties. Duke had to build from the ground up, but you got started earlier than Xavier. You've been damn good with 3 national championships in the last 20 years, and 12 total Final Fours- that's why you've earned it. Now that you've been on top for so long, people want to all take pot-shots at you. Many outsiders are sick and tired of Duke being good just like u d-ump (dayton) and Cincinnati fans (our biggest rivals) are sick of Xavier being good. Duke gets all the crap that Xavier is starting to get, only a lot more of it and on a national rather than regional basis. Recognize that the pot-shots are given out of envy in both cases. We'll remember that when Xavier reaches the top and stays there for 20 years like you guys have.

In any event, we respect Duke. We want to be more like you. We want Xavier to be in the Midwest what Duke is in the Southeast- and Xavier can be so. Do we want to beat you guys on Saturday? Hell yeah, you know it. Xavier will win if it is good enough, and I think we might be, although we are coming off of exams this week. But to me, I don't and won't hate Duke and the vast majority of Xavier fans won't either. Our aspiration would be for Duke to be spelled X-A-V-I-E-R in our part of the country.

Good luck the rest of the year- after Saturday.


I'll be happy regardless of who wins, but I don't think X is strong enough at the one to win. Jackson has been forced to play 30+ minutes a night out of position since the Lyons kid was ruled ineligible and Holloway has struggled at times/been hurt. On the other hand, I"m not sure who Duke has that can match up with Brown. I could see him getting 20+, but I"m not sure that will be enough. Go X-men! Go Duke! Good news is, I can't lose either way! :D

[Devilsfan]

Duke should be ready after Weds. scrimage. Nice scheduling.

[elvis14]

After reading this thread, I just wanted to say how I actually like it when fans of other schools show up to share information about their team and discuss upcoming games (note that does not include the occasional knucklehead who comes here to trash talk).


This game is absolutely HUGE for Xavier. I'm pretty good friends with a couple of guys on the team and they have been waiting for this game since we lost in the tournament last year to UCLA. They are looking at it as a statement game, basically to officially show the nation that they belong on the national stage and feel like they have a real shot at winning the game.

We hear this a lot. You'll see Duke fans mentioning that we get everyones best game. Because of all the publicity we get, teams get up to play Duke. I think it costs us sometimes during the season but makes us more ready to play in the post season.


Big Xavier fan here. I come in peace from Cleveland, Ohio.

Great post, Masterofreality. For someone who knows very little of Xavier, it's nice to read about what you have going on and get some perspective about the similarities between the schools and teams.

After losing to Michigan, it's been really hard to have to wait 10 days for our next game. I'm hoping we play well vs. UNCA to gain some momentum before Saturday's game against Xavier. Mostly after that wait, I'm looking forward to getting back to watching the team play and discussing actual games. Any of you X-men have time to tell us more about the players? I'd love to see a list of players with some commentary and stats.

[Cormac]

After losing to Michigan, it's been really hard to have to wait 10 days for our next game. I'm hoping we play well vs. UNCA to gain some momentum before Saturday's game against Xavier. Mostly after that wait, I'm looking forward to getting back to watching the team play and discussing actual games. Any of you X-men have time to tell us more about the players? I'd love to see a list of players with some commentary and stats.

I'll do my best:

The starters:

PG Dante Jackson - SO. He's listed at 6'5" 205lbs. He's a big PG, much bigger than the two on Duke's roster. However, he is NOT a PG. He's a 2 guard playing the 1 out of necessity. He didn't play it in high school and he didn't play it last year, so he's kind of learning on the fly. He can knock down the open three and create a little off the dribble. But right now he's just trying to run the offense and defend mostly. But again, he's big and athletic, so he could cause Duke problems with his length and bulk. Look for Nolan to put a lot of heat on him early and see how he reacts. Averages 8 pts and 3 rebounds.

G/F BJ Raymond - Senior. 6'6" and 226. He's long and has pretty good range. He's a streaky shooter though. But if he's on, look out. He doesn't create much off the bounce and does most of his scoring as a stand still shooter. He guards well and rebounds well. He's tough and long, but dont' look for him to take his guy off the dribble too often. He plays most of his time on offense outside the three. Averages 12 pts and 4 boards.

F CJ Anderson - Senior. 6'6" and 225. He's the opposite of Raymond on the offense of end. I don't think I've ever seen him take a three and I've been watching him since he transferred in from Manhattan. He loves to drive and loves contact. He's physical and a tough, tough rebounder. Good defender and long (seeing a theme here? :D ). He will do most of his scoring in the paint and he may guard all but the 5 at different times. Think Singler but smaller and not a three point threat. Very versatile. Averages 11 and 6.

F Derrick Brown - RS Junior. 6'8" and 227. He's the X-mens' best offensive player. He has recently added three point range to his game. He's a three playing the four, much like Singler, but he spends most of his time in the paint. I think his RS freshman year something like 80%+ of his field goals were dunks. He's very, very athletic and very long. He's a lefty and has NBA talent. Some drafts have him going in the first round should he choose to come out this year. He's very experienced too as he started all of last year. He will be Duke's focal point on defense. I'm guessing Singler will guard him. Don't be surprised if he hangs 20+ and grabs 10+ rebounds. He does both very well for such a wiry frame. Lets just hope he keeps his cool, unlike the Cincy game. Leading scorer at 14 and 5.

F/C Jason Love - Senior. 6'9" and 255. He dropped 30 pounds in the off season so he is more mobile than a year ago. He is the quintessential garbage, do everything guy. He rebounds like crazy and gets most of his points off of missed shots. He guards very, very well and is a good shot blocker. He's bigger than lance and more mobile than Zoubs, so it will be interesting to see what K does. He doesn't have much range at all though, so don't look for him to take a lot of shots outside the paint. A very solid post player who does what is asked of him. Averages 6 and 6.

The Bench:
X only goes about 8 deep.

PG Terrell Holloway - Freshman. 6'0" and 185. He's small, but a jet with the ball. A great change of pace to Jackson. He originally committed to Indiana, so he's got some talent. Battling a stress fracture in his foot right now. Plays a little out of control right now and is still learning how to run the team. He's athletic and can shoot the three some. He can penetrates well too, but he is small (but remember, X was also successful with a 5'7" PG last year, not sure he was even that tall).

C Kenny Frease - Freshman. 7'0" and 265. Obviously, has great size. Decent mobility and a tough rebounder and defender. A lot like Jason Love, but not quite as athletic. In HS he shot the three some, but I have not seen that this year. So he may have good range, but he hangs in the paint like his coach wants him to for now.

F Jamel McLean - Soph. 6'8" and 235. Another forward that is asked to mostly defend and rebound. He scores some put backs, but he's mostly in there to be a space eater and grab boards right now. Athletic, long and tough.

G Brad Redford - Freshman. 6'0" and 170. He's very small and doesn't play much. He only played 3 minutes against cincy. He's known as a pure shooter and hit something like 95% of his free throws in high school. He was Mr. Basketball in the state of Michigan last year. Young and small, and really only plays spot duty right now.

That's pretty much all Xavier plays. Depth is a problem, so hopefully they can avoid foul trouble. I think against Cincy 4 starters played over 30 minutes and the fifth played 29. Look for Duke to push the tempo.

Hope this helps!

[Masterofreality]

Good summary by Cormac with the following additions/corrections.

Jason Love is a junior and has recently added a decent 15 foot shot to his arsenal.

Kenny Frease is an excellent mid-range shooter. I saw him play in high school a lot against quality competition. He still has the freshmen jitters a bit, but when he shakes them, look out. Tough kid with skills. He was a big-time recruit and chose Xavier over Kentucky and Notre Dame among many others.

Derrick Brown has never had a "cool" problem. It was the intensity of the X-UC rivalry, pure and simple. No doubt, NBA raw talent.

Brad Redford was Michigan's Mr. Basketball. Why? Think JJ Redick shooting ability. Hit 102 straight free throws last year in high school and shot almost 50% from 3 point land with a very quick release. Again, freshman jitters, but you'll be hearing about this kid very soon.

Brian Walsh- Another freshman close to breaking in the regular rotation. 2008 Pennsylvania Gatorade Player of the Year. 6:4 combo guard who right now adds big depth. Solid defender and will make shots when he settles in.

All in all. Duke is fortunate to be playing Xavier while the young guys- 6 out of the first 10 in the rotation are true freshmen and sophomores- find their footing. This team is performing a little ahead of schedule from what most of us anticipated. We do anticipate at least one Final Four in the next three years, however. Sean Miller's goal as expressed is a National Championship.

Forget what league we play in. Think Gonzaga, only better- no bragging, just fact. Two Elite 8's in the last 5 years. We're already more successful than them over the last any number of year increments that you want to use. Our newest class, and the one coming in next year will keep us there.

One last thing. Xavier is 13-3 against "Big Six" Conference competition over the last two years.

Looking forward to a great game Saturday.

[Cormac]

Good summary by Cormac with the following additions/corrections.

Jason Love is a junior and has recently added a decent 15 foot shot to his arsenal.

Kenny Frease is an excellent mid-range shooter. I saw him play in high school a lot against quality competition. He still has the freshmen jitters a bit, but when he shakes them, look out. Tough kid with skills. He was a big-time recruit and chose Xavier over Kentucky and Notre Dame among many others.

Derrick Brown has never had a "cool" problem. It was the intensity of the X-UC rivalry, pure and simple. No doubt, NBA raw talent.

Brad Redford was Michigan's Mr. Basketball. Why? Think JJ Redick shooting ability. Hit 102 straight free throws last year in high school and shot almost 50% from 3 point land with a very quick release. Again, freshman jitters, but you'll be hearing about this kid very soon.

Brian Walsh- Another freshman close to breaking in the regular rotation. 2008 Pennsylvania Gatorade Player of the Year. 6:4 combo guard who right now adds big depth. Solid defender and will make shots when he settles in.

All in all. Duke is fortunate to be playing Xavier while the young guys- 6 out of the first 10 in the rotation are true freshmen and sophomores- find their footing. This team is performing a little ahead of schedule from what most of us anticipated. We do anticipate at least one Final Four in the next three years, however. Sean Miller's goal as expressed is a National Championship.

Forget what league we play in. Think Gonzaga, only better- no bragging, just fact. Two Elite 8's in the last 5 years. We're already more successful than them over the last any number of year increments that you want to use. Our newest class, and the one coming in next year will keep us there.

Looking forward to a great game Saturday.

Woops, my bad on the Jason Love thing. The Crosstown is the only game I've been able to see so far (X doesn't get a lot of airtime here in Va). So my entire analysis is based on last year/the one game this year. Comparing Redford to arguably the greatest long bomber in the history of college basketball may be a bit much this early. But who knows, maybe he'll turn out to be worthy of that comparison. Just too early IMO. I didn't say Brown has a problem, he just had no business getting tossed in a game that close over a legitimate foul (its not like the kid undercut him or anything). I don't care if its the Crosstown. Gotta be smarter. UC has always had some players of ummm questionable character. No need to stoop to their level. Xavier is going to have to develop more depth to get to a final four. If Brown stays, they might make another deep run next year when they have some true PGs with experience. Just not enough there this year. Losing the great backcourt of Lavender and Burrell is hard to replace in a year.

[Cormac]

Do you know if the Lyons kid will be eligible the second semester or does he have to sit out the whole year? I read somewhere that he was a "partial qualifier". I'm not really sure what that means or if that's even true. He is supposed to be a heck of an athlete and a steal for the X-men. He could definitely help the PG situation if that's true.

Thanks.

[gumbomoop]

Big thanks to both Cormac and Masterofreality for multiple informative posts. Master's post re X's aspirations is really interesting, and I for one certainly wouldn't have known any of this. Duke fans know that the A-10 is solid and that X has had some good coaches who've gone on to supposedly better things, and that now X-fans hope Sean Miller will stay and help make X a national power. So it's easy to see that this Sat is a huge rep-building game for that project.

All the player info you X-perts [I'm being complimentary, not sarcastic] have provided convinces me all the more that this has the makings of a fierce game. I surmise that neither of you 2 thought X would be quite this good this early in the season, but are naturally delighted. I suppose it's fair to say that, just now, both Duke and Xavier are hoping to justify their high rankings, and hoping a victory Sat will push them up to challenge UConn and Pitt as UNC-challengers.

[Masterofreality]

Nope, Lyons will not be eligible this year due to a screwy NCAA ruling about one high school english class that the NCAA clearinghouse said was good then took it back. Lyons is a 3.0 high school student and made his test scores easily. That is what is so mystifying. No one at XU seems to be able to get a good explanation.

Derrick Brown will graduate from Xavier undergraduate in the Spring of 2008. He is only a junior. If he decides to jump to the NBA draft, the answer to next year is 2 words- Jordan Crawford - transfer from Indiana who is sitting out his year after leaving in the midst of the Sampson scandal. According to Sean Miller, he is the best player on the court for them right now (Crawford is eligible to practice) and he's making the entire team step their games up.

[geraldsneighbor]

Love and G were seniors when the met in an early season game between Abington Friends and Episcopal. AFS actually won the game as they had Love and Penn St big man Andrew Jones down low to go along with Patriot League ROY Rob Keefer out top. It was a hell of a contest and G and Love both played exceptionally well. Should be interesting to see them both get out on the same floor with one another again.

[Cormac]

Nope, Lyons will not be eligible this year due to a screwy NCAA ruling about one high school english class that the NCAA clearinghouse said was good then took it back. Lyons is a 3.0 high school student and made his test scores easily. That is what is so mystifying. No one at XU seems to be able to get a good explanation.

Derrick Brown will graduate from Xavier undergraduate in the Spring of 2008. He is only a junior. If he decides to jump to the NBA draft, the answer to next year is 2 words- Jordan Crawford - transfer from Indiana who is sitting out his year after leaving in the midst of the Sampson scandal. According to Sean Miller, he is the best player on the court for them right now (Crawford is eligible to practice) and he's making the entire team step their games up.


Good call, I completely forgot about Crawford transferring in. I thought he looked really good his freshman year at Indiana. Its nice seeing XU turn into IU-East. :D If they're good kids and good players, we'll take 'em! MOR, is Lyons redshirting then?

[Masterofreality]

MOR, is Lyons redshirting then?

It's tanatamount to a redshirt. If he is progressing in his academics, which he is, he'll get a full four years of eligibility, just as James Posey and Lionel Chalmers did.

[MADXSTER]

If you wish to visit Xavier's basketball board, here is the site

http://www.xavierhoops.com/forums/index.php

[MADXSTER]

I consider this opponent a bit of a letdown compared to the likes of Pitt, Texas, Kentucky, and even Gonzaga. Xavier hardly has a national following, has never been to a final four, and is unlikely to compete well in this game. Plenty of Duke fans may well take a pass on this game.

I hope the Duke fans do take a pass. Even if they don't, Xavier will be ready.

XU #20 Most Valuable Program(Wall Street Journal), #17 Most prestigious program(ESPN), #7 in the Nation(voters), #2 in graduation rate(NCAA), #1 in Cincy(Pubic Opinion). Go Muskies

[Cormac]

If you wish to visit Xavier's basketball board, here is the site

http://www.xavierhoops.com/forums/index.php

Rant:

Having just given the board a cursory glance, I'm a bit ashamed to call myself a Xavier grad/fan. I mistakenly thought we were above taking pot shots at an elite program like Duke. This is not directed at MOR, as he has been nothing but classy, but some X fans need to get over the past. Duke won, move on. How people can hate programs that do things the right way, I'll never understand. Jealousy is ugly I guess. Duke should be the model of success that X follows. Small, private, academically driven university with limited resources (Duke doesn't have a big time football program yet, and X doesn't even have a team) competing against the giants. Do better Xavier fans.

/Rant

[MADXSTER]

Most of it is tongue in cheek. And some of it is rather funny(the pics). If you wish to discuss the upcoming game, you will find that just about every poster will be very civil and inviting.

Cormac, didn't you you to post on Musketeer Madness way back when?

[Cormac]

Most of it is tongue in cheek. And some of it is rather funny(the pics). If you wish to discuss the upcoming game, you will find that just about every poster will be very civil and inviting.

Cormac, didn't you you to post on Musketeer Madness way back when?

Nope, wasn't me. This is actually the first and only message board of any kind that I have posted on. DBR, you should feel special!!! :p

[JDev]

If you wish to visit Xavier's basketball board, here is the site

http://www.xavierhoops.com/forums/index.php

Every time I visit another team's message board, it makes me respect and appreciate this board all the more.

[elvis14]

Every time I visit another team's message board, it makes me respect and appreciate this board all the more.

I was typing in the same reply in another window when I saw this post. The X-men that have visited here have been classy and knowledgeable. Their message board however is embarrassing. Thanks DBR for providing and moderating this forum.

[XUOHTX]

Every time I visit another team's message board, it makes me respect and appreciate this board all the more.


I was typing in the same reply in another window when I saw this post. The X-men that have visited here have been classy and knowledgeable. Their message board however is embarrassing. Thanks DBR for providing and moderating this forum.

guys, don't take what we say over there literally. We do it for every team and every game. We are excited about playing Duke and it is all sarcastic and just for fun. Just a bunch of dudes pumping themselves up in a silly forum.

We do aspire to have your success...see here.

http://www.xavierhoops.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7019

[CleXU]

Thought some of you would like to read some of what Xavier's coach Sean Miller had to say when asked about Duke. He also addressed whether he thought his 5 yrs at NC State as an assistant coach will help him prepare for the type of basketball Coach K likes to play. Here's the link

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=blog05&plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3afdda4dab-ab39-43a7-8ba8-36da2f75a889Post%3a1359b0f5-4322-49b5-82de-3cb98eaf6d53&sid=sitelife.cincinnati.com

Ya its long...

Personally, I can't wait for this game on Saturday. I hope and expect it to be a thriller. It will be good to see two classy programs with one legendary coach and one great young coach battle it out.

Good luck to both teams but being selfish.... GO X

[JDev]

guys, don't take what we say over there literally. We do it for every team and every game. We are excited about playing Duke and it is all sarcastic and just for fun. Just a bunch of dudes pumping themselves up in a silly forum.

Precisely my point. You won't see that sort of thing here. No big deal however. I only mentioned it as a compliment to how this board operates.

[The1Bluedevil]

Be interesting to see how much Z plays Saturday. Love and Frease aren't the most mobile players in the world and usually one of them is in at all times, so Z should play enough minutes to have a huge impact on the game

[quickgtp]

I see Xavier winning a close one:

Xavier 73
Duke 70

I have watched the X-men play alot this year and I think they will give us fits with their length and athleticism, and our lack of inside post play.....but I do hope I am wrong!

[BlueintheFace]

Looking at the match-ups, it appears that Singler will have a pretty good chance to take his man out to the perimeter and go to work. The pick and pop should be there for the taking at times..

[Masterofreality]

Looking at the match-ups, it appears that Singler will have a pretty good chance to take his man out to the perimeter and go to work. The pick and pop should be there for the taking at times..

Respectfully, disagree. Singler will probably be guarded by Derrick Brown, an NBA quality talent who can defend, is extremely quick and is long. Xavier also defends the pick and pop very well. It could possibly be a very long day for Kyle.

The toughest guy for Xavier to defend, to me will be Jon Scheyer. He's got good guard size and a little more veteran schmotza than XU's younger guards.

The Gerald Henderson/CJ Anderson matchup will be very fun to watch and very possibly whoever gets the best of that one could be the difference in the game.

[Bob Green]

The Gerald Henderson/CJ Anderson matchup will be very fun to watch and very possibly whoever gets the best of that one could be the difference in the game.

I'm not sure Gerald Henderson will guard CJ Anderson. Jon Scheyer will most likely get the assignment. However, Duke switches on screens so everyone ends up defending multiple opponents. Dave McClure is another likely candidate when he is on the court.

[CleXU]

The reason a lot of the XU fans are thinking that Henderson or someone else will draw the majority of assignments against CJ is because CJ on the offensive end does not play like a guard. Essentially, all of his offense comes in the paint and he likes to post up in the half court offense. He will muscle up against his defender and try and push him back to the hoop. CJ has added a dribble drive to his offense this year but it is not his main source of offense. In addition, he has not attempted a single three and I can't even say i've seen him attempt a shot beyond 12 feet.
I have not seen a ton of Dukes games but I do not remember seeing Scheyer defend in the paint or against being posted up. (I could be wrong). I think a lot of Xavier fans think the match-up will be with Henderson because he is a lot more physical and seems to be a little better equipped to defend the post against a physical player.
Additional scouting note on CJ. He will post up and play in the paint against much taller opponents. He has an uncanny ability to hang in the air and somehow get a shot up and in against much taller defenders. Its weird because a lot of the time he does not seem to get that high in the air but it feels like he is in the air forever and then all of the sudden the ball goes up and in. Also, CJ will get rejected from time to time. However, he appears to be always aware of that and a lot of the time catches the rejection and puts it back up.
If Duke is able to shut CJ down or if he just plain struggles then Xavier will have a very hard time pulling this game out.

Just my thoughts... appreciate feedback about whether i'm right about my thoughts on Henderson and Scheyer's defensive strengths.

Disclaimer: this is probably written like a 2nd grader but had to write it quickly at work. haha

[CleXU]

The reason a lot of the XU fans are thinking that Henderson or someone else will draw the majority of assignments against CJ is because CJ on the offensive end does not play like a guard. Essentially, all of his offense comes in the paint and he likes to post up in the half court offense. He will muscle up against his defender and try and push him back to the hoop. CJ has added a dribble drive to his offense this year but it is not his main source of offense. In addition, he has not attempted a single three and I can't even say i've seen him attempt a shot beyond 12 feet.
I have not seen a ton of Dukes games but I do not remember seeing Scheyer defend in the paint or against being posted up. (I could be wrong). I think a lot of Xavier fans think the match-up will be with Henderson because he is a lot more physical and seems to be a little better equipped to defend the post against a physical player.
Additional scouting note on CJ. He will post up and play in the paint against much taller opponents. He has an uncanny ability to hang in the air and somehow get a shot up and in against much taller defenders. Its weird because a lot of the time he does not seem to get that high in the air but it feels like he is in the air forever and then all of the sudden the ball goes up and in. Also, CJ will get rejected from time to time. However, he appears to be always aware of that and a lot of the time catches the rejection and puts it back up.
If Duke is able to shut CJ down or if he just plain struggles then Xavier will have a very hard time pulling this game out.

Just my thoughts... appreciate feedback about whether i'm right about my thoughts on Henderson and Scheyer's defensive strengths.

Disclaimer: this is probably written like a 2nd grader but had to write it quickly at work. haha

[BlueintheFace]

Respectfully, disagree. Singler will probably be guarded by Derrick Brown, an NBA quality talent who can defend, is extremely quick and is long. Xavier also defends the pick and pop very well. It could possibly be a very long day for Kyle.

The toughest guy for Xavier to defend, to me will be Jon Scheyer. He's got good guard size and a little more veteran schmotza than XU's younger guards.

The Gerald Henderson/CJ Anderson matchup will be very fun to watch and very possibly whoever gets the best of that one could be the difference in the game.

I wouldn't be so sure about Derrick taking Singler. There seems to be an assumption on this thread that K will do his best to match the height and lank of Xavier. I foresee Duke going small a bit more than usual against Xavier and can imagine a few scenarios in which Brown draws a different assignment...

[BlueintheFace]

Also, I have a bit of a concern about the character of the Xavier players in the heat of the moment (perhaps it is their youth). If Duke should be lucky enough to get out ahead at the end, or if the game is particularly physical, I really hope our boys protect themselves from injury. I don't want to say that Xavier is a dirty team, but after watching a few of their games this year.... well, they aren't clean. Jay Bilas seems to agree with me about the attitude issue here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jthJVC6PaqA

Plus, we all know how emotional opposing teams get when they see Duke on the schedule in marquee match-ups... everyone leaves it all out on the floor. I'm just hoping that nobody gets injured first and foremost. I don't expect anything to happen, but I am a little more concerned about this team than most others...

[CleXU]

The game is always really intense and the T's weren't for committing any kind of hard fouls or trying to hurt someone. It was a lot of talking trash. There was some history between some of the players from playing in the summer leagues and the talking continued. Also, UC has in years past has been able to just physically push around and man handle Xavier and supposedly there was a lot of jawing about this in warm-ups before the game. Bilas also said during the game that the refs decided not to issue warnings and just T anyone up for talking. He was ripping both teams for being childish and continuing the trash talk once the refs had established the precedent for not allowing any of it.

The Xavier players also were extremely apologetic after the game for letting their emotions get the best of them. Derrick Brown said that he knew better and was sorry for representing Xavier that way. It was disappointing that the players talked as much as they did and XU is not proud that it happened. However, these are kids and sometimes emotions get the best of them and they did not take it past trash talk.

Xavier before the UC game has only had one T called on them. Furthermore, Xavier, last year, only had four technical fouls called on them all season and only One was on a player. The other three were on coaches (two of which i know were for being literally two feet out of the coaching area when that rule became a point of emphasis).

The Xavier players are not going to go out and hurt someone. Duke has had incidents in the past too but no one is judging the Duke program on that one incident (the Hansbrough nose incident). Xavier has played prestigious programs in the past and as never had a problem even when they've been blown out in them (aka UCLA last year in the Elite Eight). Ohh and we have played Duke before too.

Xavier and its players have the greatest respect for Duke and all of its great accomplishments. According to Xavier's coach, Sean Miller, he even aspires to build a program as successful as Duke and more importantly in the way and with the class that Duke has built its program.

It will be a good hard fought game and that is all.

Good luck to both teams

[Faison1]

Well said, CleXU. Stuff happens. Duke is not immune to getting emotional on the court....one only has to look at the UNC games, or other small incidents (Laettner's foot on Kentucky player....notice I didn't call it a stomp).

When thinking of Xavier, the word "dirty" does not come to mind. Actually, I guess I don't really have an impression of them at all. Except to think that this weekend's game is going to be intense. I expect a very physical contest that will test our team and its progress. Think Pitt last year....a very confident team proving themselves to the national audience. Good luck to all.

[Masterofreality]

The game is always really intense and the T's weren't for committing any kind of hard fouls or trying to hurt someone. It was a lot of talking trash. There was some history between some of the players from playing in the summer leagues and the talking continued. Also, UC has in years past has been able to just physically push around and man handle Xavier and supposedly there was a lot of jawing about this in warm-ups before the game. Bilas also said during the game that the refs decided not to issue warnings and just T anyone up for talking. He was ripping both teams for being childish and continuing the trash talk once the refs had established the precedent for not allowing any of it.

The Xavier players also were extremely apologetic after the game for letting their emotions get the best of them. Derrick Brown said that he knew better and was sorry for representing Xavier that way. It was disappointing that the players talked as much as they did and XU is not proud that it happened. However, these are kids and sometimes emotions get the best of them and they did not take it past trash talk.

Xavier before the UC game has only had one T called on them- for a rim hang. Furthermore, Xavier, last year, only had four technical fouls called on them all season and only One was on a player. The other three were on coaches (two of which i know were for being literally two feet out of the coaching area when that rule became a point of emphasis).

The Xavier players are not going to go out and hurt someone. Duke has had incidents in the past too but no one is judging the Duke program on that one incident (the Hansbrough nose incident). Xavier has played prestigious programs in the past and as never had a problem even when they've been blown out in them (aka UCLA last year in the Elite Eight). Ohh and we have played Duke before too.

Xavier and its players have the greatest respect for Duke and all of its great accomplishments. According to Xavier's coach, Sean Miller, he even aspires to build a program as successful as Duke and more importantly in the way and with the class that Duke has built its program.

It will be a good hard fought game and that is all.

Good luck to both teams

What Cle said. There's no thuggery or cheap shotting in the nature of this Xavier basketball team. The UC game is a rivalry with the added ingredient that these guys play against each other in the tough Cincinnati summer league. There is history behind these events and there is no place for a shrinking violet in that game. Every one of Xavier's techs in the UC game came from a reaction to a UC foul or a UC guy saying "F" you right in the face in the case of the Frease tech. No fists, elbows or fights. But this XU team is tough, will compete and won't be pushed around.

I look for a clean, well played game.

[Tappan Zee Devil]

Has the team already gone up to New York or are they planning to go tomorrow?
I was supposed to fly from San Francisco to Newark tomorrow, but Continental has already canceled my flight. :( They first said that they couldn't get me home until next Tuesday. :mad: After working with them for an hour on the phone, we worked out a way to get me home on Sunday by spending Saturday night in Houston.

So - unless they have a charter or are already there, getting to metro NYC could be very interesting.

Jim

[DukieInBrasil]

I´m getting really tired of lines like this " our lack of inside/post play". Obviously whoever says this has not been paying attention. A) Singler is tearing it up, leading the team in scoring, rebounding and assists. B) LT and Z have both basically doubled their scoring from last year and increased their rebounding without gaining that many more minutes and are averaging 15+ ppg and 8rebs a game. And they are only playing about 30 mpg. Throw in the contributions of McClure and Plumlee and our non-Singler frontcourt is averaging 20ppg and 12 rpg. That is excellent production in the post. So stop with the lame accusation that we don´t have good post play this year, so far, we have.

[quickgtp]

I´m getting really tired of lines like this " our lack of inside/post play". Obviously whoever says this has not been paying attention. A) Singler is tearing it up, leading the team in scoring, rebounding and assists. B) LT and Z have both basically doubled their scoring from last year and increased their rebounding without gaining that many more minutes and are averaging 15+ ppg and 8rebs a game. And they are only playing about 30 mpg. Throw in the contributions of McClure and Plumlee and our non-Singler frontcourt is averaging 20ppg and 12 rpg. That is excellent production in the post. So stop with the lame accusation that we don´t have good post play this year, so far, we have.

Please tell me who we have that can get the ball in the low block, with his back to the basket, have a clear out and take the ball to the hoop with authority? We have players who are capable, yes, but doing it on a consistent basis? Nope. Kyle is getting better in the paint, yes, but most of his scoring is not coming from there IMO.....

[Saratoga2]

I see Xavier winning a close one:

Xavier 73
Duke 70

I have watched the X-men play alot this year and I think they will give us fits with their length and athleticism, and our lack of inside post play.....but I do hope I am wrong!

Rather than predict a score, I would prefer to consider where Duke scoring will come from. Xavier guards the 3 closely, so I don't expect many opportunities from that range. Maybe a few from the penetrate and dish, although Xavier also is hard to penetrate on due to their quickness and length. Zoubek might create trouble for Xavier by getting putbacks due to his size, but I would think that Henderson, Smith and Scheyer would be best equipped to drive and either get fouled or get a shot away. We will need points from the line Saturday.
Xavier also defends the fast break very well so I don't see a lot of points coming from that part of their game. Their guards are a little uncertain handling the ball so we may get a few breaks that way, but not a whole lot.
Perhaps Plumlee and Williams can also have an impact. Both need to avoid freshmen mistakes. Williams can defend, rebound and score around the basket, while Plumlee has the size to compete inside. His aggressiveness seems to be increasing and he will need to be aggresssive against Xavier to be much of a factor.

In summaary, I think Duke will have a lot of trouble getting points in this one and 70 for the night is probably a good guess. Our defense is solid, yet we have given good teams points enough to beat the 70 number. This will be a close game. Anyone thinking we will win by 10 to 15 is optimistic.

[Ders24]

For what it's worth, Seth Davis predicts Duke 77-70

[whereinthehellami]

Here are some quick hits from ESPN's Xavier's stats (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/teams/stats?teamId=2752);


8 guys for X play over 10 MPG.


9 guys for Duke play over 10 MPG.


3 guys for X score over 10 PPG (Brown 14 PPG, Raymond 12 PPG, Anderson 12 PPG)


4 Duke players score over 10 PPG (Singler 17 PPG, Scheyer 13 PPG, Smith 12 PPG, & Henderson 11 PPG)


X shoots 36% from 3, 44% FG, & 68% FT.


Duke shoots 32% from 3, 48% FG, & 75% FT.


X has a 1:1.4 AS:TO in the wrong direction.


Duke has a 1:1 AS:TO.


X gets 5.6 ST and 5.8 BK a game.


Duke gets 9.6 ST and 4.7 BK a game.


Derrick Brown shoots 52% FG, 78% FT, & 42% from 3.


Kyle Singler shoots 47% FG, 74% FT, & 33% from 3.


Anderson leads the X with 55 FTA at a 58% FT rate.


Singler leads Duke with 58 trips to the FT line.


The X averages 19.6 fouls a game.


Duke averages 18.1 fouls a game.


Jason Love leads the X with 6.4 RBs a game and only 6.1 PPG.


Singler leads the Dukies with 7.8 RBs a game.




So after looking at those stats it appears to be a pretty even matchup. Derrick Brown looks like the best shooter on either team but as a team Duke gets the sharpshooting nod. I also think that Singler is the most complete player on either team. Singler is everywhere in the stat sheet.

This should be a good test for the Dukies. Xavier has the athletes, length, and star player (Brown) to give Duke trouble. But while Xavier has that speed and length to give Duke problems they don't have that dominant PG that really kills Duke. In the end, I think Duke prevails in a hard fought game in which the youth and lack of a true PG for Xavier will be too much for them to overcome.

[kydevil]

Has the team already gone up to New York or are they planning to go tomorrow?
I was supposed to fly from San Francisco to Newark tomorrow, but Continental has already canceled my flight. :( They first said that they couldn't get me home until next Tuesday. :mad: After working with them for an hour on the phone, we worked out a way to get me home on Sunday by spending Saturday night in Houston.

So - unless they have a charter or are already there, getting to metro NYC could be very interesting.

Jim

Jim, I'm up here in NYC right now staying and attending the game on saturday. I have heard per Xavier students I know that Xavier has arrived. However, no word on Duke yet but I would imagine they are here as the weather isn't too bad so far.

[xumuskie08]

Jim, I'm up here in NYC right now staying and attending the game on saturday. I have heard per Xavier students I know that Xavier has arrived. However, no word on Duke yet but I would imagine they are here as the weather isn't too bad so far.

Xavier did get there today...but it was up in the air. It was looking like the team may have to bus there until about 8:30 this morning when they were able to sneak a flight up.

[DukieInBrasil]

to quickgtp (quoting you):
"Please tell me who we have that can get the ball in the low block, with his back to the basket, have a clear out and take the ball to the hoop with authority? We have players who are capable, yes, but doing it on a consistent basis? Nope. Kyle is getting better in the paint, yes, but most of his scoring is not coming from there IMO....."

Does it matter if anyone can do that if they´re still putting up the numbers i referenced? It is totally irrelevant how those baskets are scored if they are scored. And no, LT, Z, Miles nor Dave are scoring their points from anywhere but right around the basket (DM has 1 3pt this year). Kyle scores some on the 3pt ball but is actually scoring most of his points in the area that is traditionally considered "the post".
Jumbo has mentioned many times, and i agree with him about it, that we don´t necessarily need our 3-headed Center to clear out the low-block and take it up with authority since Gerald, Nolan, Kyle and even Jon are all capable of getting to the rim. What we need from our post is to score on O-boards and the occasional play run for them, and that is exactly what they are doing. So no, i won´t tell you who is going to "get the ball in the low block, with his back to the basket, have a clear out and take the ball to the hoop with authority" because we really don´t need it.

[Kedsy]

to quickgtp (quoting you):
"Please tell me who we have that can get the ball in the low block, with his back to the basket, have a clear out and take the ball to the hoop with authority? We have players who are capable, yes, but doing it on a consistent basis? Nope. Kyle is getting better in the paint, yes, but most of his scoring is not coming from there IMO....."

Does it matter if anyone can do that if they´re still putting up the numbers i referenced? It is totally irrelevant how those baskets are scored if they are scored. And no, LT, Z, Miles nor Dave are scoring their points from anywhere but right around the basket (DM has 1 3pt this year). Kyle scores some on the 3pt ball but is actually scoring most of his points in the area that is traditionally considered "the post".
Jumbo has mentioned many times, and i agree with him about it, that we don´t necessarily need our 3-headed Center to clear out the low-block and take it up with authority since Gerald, Nolan, Kyle and even Jon are all capable of getting to the rim. What we need from our post is to score on O-boards and the occasional play run for them, and that is exactly what they are doing. So no, i won´t tell you who is going to "get the ball in the low block, with his back to the basket, have a clear out and take the ball to the hoop with authority" because we really don´t need it.


I think this is a more complicated issue than either of you are making it out to be. I think a lot of people cling to the idea that you need a gargantuan back to the basket player to win and I think that idea is outdated, especially in the college game.

Realistically, you don't need prolific scoring from your center if you have other players that excel in that area (which Duke obviously does). What I think a winning team needs (at a minimum) from its 5 position is:

(a) rebounding;

(b) defense against other big men;

(c) a physical presence at crunch time so if you really need a basket and your outside shooting is off you can dump it down low and be relatively confident of a score.

So far, our three-headed center has done a fine job at rebounding and defense, which is DukieInBrasil's argument, but I don't know that we've faced any top notch centers yet, so really the jury is still out on that.

I think quickgtp's argument is that none of our guys look like they're going to be the physical inside presence at crunch time, and I probably agree. And I guess what that means is we're vulnerable on days we don't shoot well. Alas. But the position certainly looks more productive than last year, so perhaps we should be grateful for small favors.

[DBFAN]

Duke by 7+, after the Michigan game, Duke will be very hungry to prove that this team is a legit top 5 team.

I want to say this, i understand the arguments everyone makes about our big men, but just remember where we were last year, with absolutely no inside presence, we would have taken those 3 playing the way they are now (it would have been a godsend) Z, Plumlee, and Thomas do not have to be superstars, they just need to log minutes without making big mistakes. I for one see those three with Williams making a big impact before this season is over, trust me it will all work out.

[quickgtp]

I think quickgtp's argument is that none of our guys look like they're going to be the physical inside presence at crunch time, and I probably agree. And I guess what that means is we're vulnerable on days we don't shoot well. Alas. But the position certainly looks more productive than last year, so perhaps we should be grateful for small favors.

Thank you Kedsy; you pretty much summarized my thoughts on the matter:)

We aren't even into conference play yet and some folks act like our most pressing need has been solved. IMO, let's wait until we play teams like WF, Miami, UNC, and Clemson before we get too excited. I honestly do not feel we have the post play to take us very deep in March, but again, I hope I am wrong.

[jpfrizzle]

I've seen the ratings, viewed each team's player stats. Duke vs Xavier is almost a match up in those areas. Both teams have alot to prove, and alot to loose.
Todays game, Duke will have to play with intensity, heart and school spirit if they want to beat Xavier. I'm sure Xavier will give the boys a tough battle, but I am most certain Duke will prevail in the end.


Go DUKE ! ! ! !

[trinity92]

Does it matter if anyone can do that if they´re still putting up the numbers i referenced? It is totally irrelevant how those baskets are scored if they are scored. And no, LT, Z, Miles nor Dave are scoring their points from anywhere but right around the basket (DM has 1 3pt this year). Kyle scores some on the 3pt ball but is actually scoring most of his points in the area that is traditionally considered "the post".
Jumbo has mentioned many times, and i agree with him about it, that we don´t necessarily need our 3-headed Center to clear out the low-block and take it up with authority since Gerald, Nolan, Kyle and even Jon are all capable of getting to the rim. What we need from our post is to score on O-boards and the occasional play run for them, and that is exactly what they are doing. So no, i won´t tell you who is going to "get the ball in the low block, with his back to the basket, have a clear out and take the ball to the hoop with authority" because we really don´t need it.

While I am very impressed with the low-post production we're getting from our frontcourt players, I couldn't disagree with you more. The time we need reliable inside scoring (not on put-backs) is at the end of a game. Late game scoring must come from inside-- otherwise, you're at the mercy of outside shooting, which even at its best is a coin flip. Theoretically, we do have slashers who can drive to the basket, creating low-post scoring after a fashion, but there are still pitfalls like travels, turnovers, non-calls/steals before you ever get a shot off, and if the opposing team knows you have to penetrate to get off a shot, they have a much better chance of blocking it. These factors, IMO, combined with refs' general reluctance to call last-second/outcome determinative fouls, reduce the chances of scoring or getting fouled via penetration to around 50/50. Being able to dump it into the post, where players routinely sink a basket well over 50% of the time, is essential if you want to win games without surrendering your fate to the basketball gods.

Although my points are mostly theoretical, I think they're borne out by what we've seen from our recent, traditional center-less, teams, the end of last year's Belmont game notwithstanding.

[jv001]

While I am very impressed with the low-post production we're getting from our frontcourt players, I couldn't disagree with you more. The time we need reliable inside scoring (not on put-backs) is at the end of a game. Late game scoring must come from inside-- otherwise, you're at the mercy of outside shooting, which even at its best is a coin flip. Theoretically, we do have slashers who can drive to the basket, creating low-post scoring after a fashion, but there are still pitfalls like travels, turnovers, non-calls/steals before you ever get a shot off, and if the opposing team knows you have to penetrate to get off a shot, they have a much better chance of blocking it. These factors, IMO, combined with refs' general reluctance to call last-second/outcome determinative fouls, reduce the chances of scoring or getting fouled via penetration to around 50/50. Being able to dump it into the post, where players routinely sink a basket well over 50% of the time, is essential if you want to win games without surrendering your fate to the basketball gods.

Although my points are mostly theoretical, I think they're borne out by what we've seen from our recent, traditional center-less, teams, the end of last year's Belmont game notwithstanding.

I agree to the point that if you are shooting the 3 primarily then you could be in big trouble come Tourney time. However there are just not that many dominant centers in college bb at this time. The real good ones are one and done. There are some good freshman and sophs but not many dominating. There is no reason we should not be driving the ball to the basket at the end of the game. Not with Nolan, Gerald, Kyle and Jon on the court. that should be our inside play. Go Duke!

[Karl Beem]

I love awesome starts.

[Son of Mojo]

Good start past the early fouls--need to get a handle on that......although, apparently according to cbs, we're all just "chasing carolina"........ugh

[Bob Green]

Scheyer is really stroking the ball. That last three pointer was deep. This game is off to an awesome start. We are exploiting Xavier's turnover problem. LGD!

[gep]

We're already at 7 fouls...:( X only has 4

[Karl Beem]

Zoooouuuubek!

[DukieInBrasil]

good discussion about the play of our big men, and i agree with alot of what is being said. But still, my comment was strictly limited to how they have played so far and contrasting it to comments about how are post play has been inadequate. That is what i disagree with. So far they have played very well and doing pretty much everything that folks were assuming that they were going to need to do for Duke to be a really good team. Of course we don´t know how they´re gonna play in a crunch time yet, but even in our worst game (Michigan II) our post played decently, in fact much better than other facets of our game. True, they did not come to the rescue and win the game for us, but that does not negate that they played well.
All i can say is that i hope they all keep improving every game, which is what they have done so far.

[quickgtp]

I see Xavier winning a close one:

Xavier 73
Duke 70

I have watched the X-men play alot this year and I think they will give us fits with their length and athleticism, and our lack of inside post play.....but I do hope I am wrong!


Ladies and Gentlemen, I am here to proclaim myself the moron of the week! Wow, I feel like an idiot but I am happy at the same time!:)

[roywhite]

Take the 1st half and bottle it. Very, very nice.

[jwillfan]

anyone know where to find minutes played while in-game? live stats link from goduke.com schedule doesn't work. seems like greg and nolan split time pretty evenly to the point where I was wondering if nolan had done something wrong.

[roywhite]

anyone know where to find minutes played while in-game? live stats link from goduke.com schedule doesn't work. seems like greg and nolan split time pretty evenly to the point where I was wondering if nolan had done something wrong.

Nolan got 2 fouls early and sat for a while. Both Greg and Nolan have been very effective.

[CBDUKE]

Is there anyone here who is not happy about something at this point of the game? Not me!!

[basketballfan22]

if zoubeck and thomas play this well for the rest of the season.... we are a legit final four team. Having an inside game creates so much opportunity. Not just on the offensive side...

[basketballfan22]

Is there anyone here who is not happy about something at this point of the game? Not me!!

would like Henderson still step up his game. Would like him to attack the rim more. Also would like to see E Williams get more pt time. he looked good against asheville.

[jwillfan]

It's hard to fathom...but Singler isn't scoring and we're ahead by this much. Scary!

[Karl Beem]

Tip-dunk by the big guy!

[Bob Green]

That was a nice DUNK by Zoubek off the Paulus miss. The CBS affiliate in Seattle just switched away from the game to show Texas - Michigan State. An atrocious decision in my opinion.

[fisheyes]

They just pulled the game in the NY-NJ-CT area!

[jwillfan]

There's always a first time :)

[camion]

CBS also switched the game in Greenville, SC at 71-41. Really poor play by Duke to get so far ahead.


I just turned on live stats at http://www.theacc.com/jacked/08bk1220du.html so at least I can follow the score.

[grannyduke]

DC Too.

[Madrasdukie]

Does anybody know if the game can be seen online ? I'm in Baltimore and CBS just switched to the Texas/MSU game.

[Bluedog]

They just pulled the game in the NY-NJ-CT area!

At least you guys had the game on CBS in the first place! Wasn't on CBS ever in Chicago...But, yeah, it's annoying when they switch. I was watching online and it's also switched to MSU-TX.

Looked good thus far! Especially Scheyer and Z. I think I might give Z MOTM just because it's more unexpected. He's been the best I've ever seen him.

[Indoor66]

Does anybody know if the game can be seen online ? I'm in Baltimore and CBS just switched to the Texas/MSU game.

Radio Link: http://www.wsfl.com/

[DukeUsul]

I just checked the feed from channelsurfing.net and it's carrying the main CBS feed - so it's now showing MSU-Tex.

[Madrasdukie]

Radio Link: http://www.wsfl.com/

Thanks. Audio is certainly better than nothing.

[terrih]

CBS sucks. So annoyed that they switched away. Aargh.

[superdave]

makes him MOTM!

[Oriole Way]

Props to Bob Green for calling an easy Duke win today. Was not expecting such a dominant performance whatsoever.

Really happy with Brian Zoubek and Lance Thomas all season. Hope they can continue improving.

[ForeverBlowingBubbles]

The first half was the best half of the season by far... We are going to win this game by a good amount but it really scares me that we can play so well one half and then lose the second half by over 10 points.