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DukeWarhead
12-11-2008, 08:46 AM
As a VMI (undergrad) and Duke (grad) alum, I can't tell you how weird it is to have both alma maters being talked about in basketball.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?id=3759386&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab6pos1

Since I was a little kid, VMI athletics, and especially basketball was a joke. When I was a keydet in the early 90s, it wasn't any better. I spent many a weeknight, sitting in a near empty gym, watching VMI's team struggle against the likes of East Tennessee State, Marshall, and (ugh) the Citadel.
And eventhough they haven't really won anything yet, just the fact that people now know about VMI basketball is crazy. It's one of those places that simply making the NCAA tournament would evoke tears of joy.

I wonder if their shoot like crazy offense could work in a major conference? I think of teams like Loyola Marymount and others that employed the same strategy, but it always seemed like a short-lived gimmick offense than anything else.

My biggest dream in the world - The Keydets make it to the Tourney as a 16 seed and knock of the Tarheels in the first round. Yes, I know - a super crazy dream. But a small quick team, with nothing to lose, just happy to be there, that shoots with reckless abandon and gets turn-overs.... that might just be the formula to hang with and pull one out against the turds in baby blue.

Oh, and another connection with Duke... VMI plays its home games in Cameron Hall. We used to call it "Little Cameron" when I was there.

bloodevil
12-11-2008, 10:21 AM
As a Keydet, you should be aware of VMI's Sweet 16 run in the mid 1970's led by Ron Carter. I remember going to Reynold's to watch their unlikely run as an 8 year old with my father, a '65 VMI grad.

powellhill1981
12-11-2008, 11:31 AM
As another VMI alumni, I join the previous poster in joy/ surprise over the Keydets' surprising run.
I've always rooted for Duke, knowing that they generally were going to win that game, although i had no real connection to the school.
I've always rooted for VMI, knowing that they are going to lose most games, having an intimate connection to the school.
Beating Kentucky was an incredible moment and I went to UVA game a couple days later-- VMI could have beaten the Cavs if not for fatigue from the travel from Lexington.
Having defeated UNC-Asheville and Winthrop early bodes well for the program but our style of play usually does not pay dividends during a long conference schedule.
With non-conference tilts limited to away against Army, and home against Richmond, we really need to cruise through the Big South.

Olympic Fan
12-11-2008, 12:11 PM
As a Keydet, you should be aware of VMI's Sweet 16 run in the mid 1970's led by Ron Carter. I remember going to Reynold's to watch their unlikely run as an 8 year old with my father, a '65 VMI grad.

Ah, the game in Reynolds was in 1977 ... VMI's greatest moment was actually the year before -- in 1976.

That was the year Coach Bill Blair led the Keydets to a Southern Conference title. Their first-round game was in Charlotte, where they beat Tennessee in the first round. The winners moved to Greensboro, which was devoid of ACC fans. That was the year Virginia had upset UNC in the ACC finals. Under the rules at the time, the official ACC champion (Virginia, which had finished sixth in the ACC regular season) got the East Regional spot, while the second ACC team was shipped out of the region. On the night VMI was beating Tennessee, Virginia was losing to DePaul.

There was a 32-team field in those days, so you had to win just one game to reach the Sweet 16.

There was almost nobody in the Greensboro Coliseum for the regional semifinals, but almost everybody there was cheering for VMI as they beat DePaul in overtime. Rutgers beat a nothing UConn team (long before the Huskies' current rise to excellence) in the other semi.

Alas, VMI's run ended one game short of the Final Four as undefeated Rutgers dominated Blair's team.

A year later with Charlie Schmaus replacing Blair as coach, VMI beat Duquesne in a first-round game in Raleigh, but lost badly in the Sweet 16 to Kentucky in College Park.

Still, back to back Sweet 16s isn't bad. Those three NCAA wins in 1976 and 1977 represent the only NCAA Tournament victories in school history.

Here's hoping Dukewarhead's dream for 2009 comes true!

jgflava
12-11-2008, 01:01 PM
I saw VMI's game against UNC Asheville last week. VMI is one of the most entertaining teams I have ever seen play. For playing a extremely fast paced offense, they are very disciplined (probably due to it being a military academy) and don't make many mistakes. They knock down their shots and are very good at spreading the floor. I highly recommend seeing this team in person.

If they make it to the NCAA tournament, they could very well knock off a higher seed. The coach will be a hot commodity if that happens.

ACCBBallFan
12-11-2008, 08:24 PM
You just never know what you are going to get with VMI.

It is interesting how they beat two completely different skill set teams, UK and UNC-Ashevlle by practically identical scores, and lost to a couple of mediocre teams UVA and Jax St neither of whom make the top 100 of 348 Div 1 teams.

DATE OPPONENT TIME/RESULT RECORD
November 14 at Kentucky W 111-103 1-0
November 16 at Virginia L 107-97 1-1
November 18 Maryland Bible College W 118-72 2-1
November 20 Stevenson W 133-72 3-1
November 24 at Campbell W 97-92 4-1
November 29 at Jacksonville State L 95-67 4-2
December 3 Winthrop W 92-74 5-2 (1-0)
December 6 at North Carolina-Asheville W 114-105 6-2 (2-0)
December 9 Campbell W 88-76 7-2

Looks like they may have worn out their welcome with Campbell, but if you value Offense, as good a team as any in NCAA to watch.

Jim3k
12-11-2008, 08:46 PM
The Grinnell system has been used at VMI for a few years, now. Fun to watch the offense, I'm sure.

The idea is to get a shot up every 7 seconds or so, play pressing defense on made baskets, if the other team breaks the press, allow the layup, and go back and get three. It trades twos for threes and requires all out effort for about a five-minute stretch. Substitution is the rule. Long passes are required to keep the pace up and there is a high risk of error in that.


So the formula is: trade twos for threes; cause turnovers near their basket; and keep fresh legs in the game.

If the threes aren't falling, though, the team can be in for a long night.

grad_devil
12-11-2008, 08:52 PM
VMI being successful is not a big surprise for me. I know the coach rather well and have seen him be very successful on the DII level before having success at VMI.

As good a coach as he is, I think he's a better person. He's been through a lot already in life, switching professions due to health concerns (which he's continued to battle during his time @ VMI). He actually took up coaching to reduce stress. Amazing, eh?

I'm not an alum, but I'm definitely pulling hard for Duggar and the keydets this season.

--grad_devil

DukeWarhead
12-12-2008, 08:57 AM
Thanks for all the Keydet love, its really great to see. Bloodevil, my old man was VMI '65 as well. I'm '94. Small world and small message board.

Out of curiousity, does anybody know how often Duke had played the academies or military colleges like VMI or the Citadel under coach K? I wonder if his being a West Point grad has influenced that at all..
I remember the great passage from Feinstein's "The Last Amatures" about K's pep talk to the Duke team before they played Navy one year... simply awesome.

Tom B.
12-12-2008, 02:07 PM
Out of curiousity, does anybody know how often Duke had played the academies or military colleges like VMI or the Citadel under coach K? I wonder if his being a West Point grad has influenced that at all.


Duke has played Army five times in the K era:

December 22, 1996
November 16, 1997
November 20, 1999
November 25, 2000
November 23, 2002


Duke has played Navy twice in the K era:

December 30, 1983
March 23, 1986

The second one was a huge game -- the East Regional Final in the 1986 NCAA Tournament. That was the Navy team led by David Robinson. Duke won and advanced to the Final Four in Dallas.


Duke has played the Citadel four times in the K era:

November 26, 1988
January 3, 1990
January 16, 1991
December 1, 1993

The game on January 16, 1991 was memorable for reasons having little to do with the game itself. That was the only game of the four that was played in McAlister Field House, the Citadel's home arena (the other three were Duke home games). It was also the night that Operation Desert Storm began.


Duke won all of the games listed above.


To the best of my knowledge, Duke has not played VMI during the K era.

Olympic Fan
12-12-2008, 03:38 PM
Duke's last game with VMI was in 1953, so, no, Duke has not faced the Keydets in the Coach K era.

The two schools used to play a lot, back when both were in the Southern Conference. Duke has an 18-9 edge in a series that dates back to 1911. Actually, although the Devils won the first meeting in '11, VMI dominated the early years of the series -- winning seven of the 10 meetings between 1911 and 1921.

When the series resumed in 1927 (when Duke joined the SC), the Devils dominated, winning 15 of 17 games -- including the last seven games. VMI's last win in the series came in overtime in 1937 in Lexington.

Overall, against military schools, Duke is:

1-0 vs. Air Force (first and only game was early in the 2006-07 season)
9-3 vs. Army
29-13 vs. Navy
9-0 vs. The Citadel
18-9 vs. VMI

That doesn't count several World War II games against military-based teams such as Carolina Pre-Flight, Fort Bragg, Camp Butner, the Charleston Coast Guard Station and the Norfolk Naval Training Station.