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View Full Version : Is Duke/UNC the greatest rivalry in college sports?



umdukie
12-04-2008, 05:25 AM
I personally think it is. You have two teams that are always top ranked, separated by only 8 miles, have two hall of fame coaches, have incredible NCAA tournament success, have graduated NBA stars, have very intense fan bases, have had a lot of crazy matchups, have great traditions, etc.

I'm from Michigan and I'm tired of all my friends back home who think Michigan-Ohio State football is the greatest college rivalry ever. Maybe historically because of age but I don't think the rivalry is relevant anymore. Ohio State is a top-ranked team but always gets trampled by the best that the SEC and the Big 12 have to offer and Michigan is one of the worst D-1 football programs in existence PERIOD. The coaches aren't even that good. Tressel and Rodriguez??? They ain't no Hayes and Shembechler...that's for sure. To top it off, the Big 10 isn't even a good football conference.

Anyway, how do you guys think Duke/UNC compares to other prominent rivalries? Discuss.

PumpkinFunk
12-04-2008, 07:20 AM
For basketball? Absolutely the biggest one.

It's hard to compare basketball rivalries with other sports, though. I'd list Michigan-OSU, Florida-Georgia, and Bama-Auburn as the biggest football ones... and those are pretty comparable to Duke-Carolina in their own right.

jv001
12-04-2008, 07:21 AM
Duke vs. unc is the best rivalry in sports. No doubt. Better than Yankees-Redsox, Cardinals-Cubs, Ohio St-Michigan, Lakers-Celtics, GA-Florida and any others you want to mention. I dislike unc so much that I hate to see them even mentioned on this website. Go Duke!

Wander
12-04-2008, 08:05 AM
Auburn-Bama and OSU-UM sure, but Florida-Georgia is absolutely nowhere near the discussion. From a fan's perspective, barely anyone in Florida particularly cares about Georgia, at least not anymore than Duke fans care about Wake Forest or NC State. Florida fans dislike FSU far more.

jv001
12-04-2008, 08:09 AM
Auburn-Bama and OSU-UM sure, but Florida-Georgia is absolutely nowhere near the discussion. From a fan's perspective, barely anyone in Florida particularly cares about Georgia, at least not anymore than Duke fans care about Wake Forest or NC State. Florida fans dislike FSU far more.

Did not know that. Thanks for the info.

OZZIE4DUKE
12-04-2008, 09:00 AM
Duke vs. unc is the best rivalry in sports. No doubt. Better than Yankees-Redsox,
I dislike unc so much that I hate to see them even mentioned on this website. Go Duke!

Duke vs. unc is the best college rivalry. Period. Any sport. But of course the success of the two basketball teams makes it so nationwide. But don't dismiss the Yankees - red sox rivalry so quickly. Every bit of passion that permeates Duke - unc permeates Yanks - red sux. The fans live in close proximity to each other, especially in Connecticut, but NY and Boston is the original air shuttle route (OK, NY - Washington may have claim to that title). The Curse of the Bambino and (until 2004, grrrrrrr) long dominance of the Yankees provided decades of super intense bragging rights and hard feelings.

I notice that you have followed my rule of not capitalizing unc. It is, after all, a sign of disrespect!

Rivalries. Gotta love 'em!

Kedsy
12-04-2008, 09:30 AM
Duke vs. unc is the best college rivalry. Period. Any sport. But of course the success of the two basketball teams makes it so nationwide. But don't dismiss the Yankees - red sox rivalry so quickly. Every bit of passion that permeates Duke - unc permeates Yanks - red sux. The fans live in close proximity to each other, especially in Connecticut, but NY and Boston is the original air shuttle route (OK, NY - Washington may have claim to that title). The Curse of the Bambino and (until 2004, grrrrrrr) long dominance of the Yankees provided decades of super intense bragging rights and hard feelings.

The problem with the Yankees/Red Sox rivalry is until five years ago the Yankees completely dominated it. It's not much of a rivalry if the same team always wins. Duke/Carolina has had streaks of one team dominating the other, but it's been back and forth for 60 years. The only reason Yankees/Red Sox is even in the discussion is the NY press makes such a big deal over it, but you need more than that to make a classic rivalry.

The Gordog
12-04-2008, 09:53 AM
The problem with the Yankees/Red Sox rivalry is until five years ago the Yankees completely dominated it. It's not much of a rivalry if the same team always wins. Duke/Carolina has had streaks of one team dominating the other, but it's been back and forth for 60 years. The only reason Yankees/Red Sox is even in the discussion is the NY press makes such a big deal over it, but you need more than that to make a classic rivalry.

1. Players switch teams in pro baseball, not so in college hoops
2. Players interact a lot in college, often having played together in HS or summer leagues
3. Fans have to work with each other in the entire state.

No question in my mind Duke vs. unc is the greatest rivalry in sports, period.

Ders24
12-04-2008, 10:48 AM
1. Players switch teams in pro baseball, not so in college hoops
2. Players interact a lot in college, often having played together in HS or summer leagues
3. Fans have to work with each other in the entire state.

No question in my mind Duke vs. unc is the greatest rivalry in sports, period.

Completely agree. My experience with the Sox/Yankees is that it doesn't touch Duke/unc. Some of that might be my personal investment though.

rockymtn devil
12-04-2008, 10:57 AM
I personally think it is. You have two teams that are always top ranked, separated by only 8 miles, have two hall of fame coaches, have incredible NCAA tournament success, have graduated NBA stars, have very intense fan bases, have had a lot of crazy matchups, have great traditions, etc.

I'm from Michigan and I'm tired of all my friends back home who think Michigan-Ohio State football is the greatest college rivalry ever. Maybe historically because of age but I don't think the rivalry is relevant anymore. Ohio State is a top-ranked team but always gets trampled by the best that the SEC and the Big 12 have to offer and Michigan is one of the worst D-1 football programs in existence PERIOD. The coaches aren't even that good. Tressel and Rodriguez??? They ain't no Hayes and Shembechler...that's for sure. To top it off, the Big 10 isn't even a good football conference.

Anyway, how do you guys think Duke/UNC compares to other prominent rivalries? Discuss.

I hate to be that guy, but when does Ohio State lose to B12 teams? The last four Buckeye games against the B12--as far as my memory can tell--were a win over Kansas State in the Fiesta Bowl, a beatdown of Oklahoma State (with Ohio State's backup QB), a close loss to Texas in Columbus, and a pretty big win against Texas in Austin. And, while currently down, the B10 was the dominant BCS conference from 1998 until about 2004. It will be back soon. Remember when the SEC was talked about like Tyler Hansbrough? Yeah, me neither...

I agree with you about Tressel. I mean, it's not like he's won 5 national titles and made a team with a penguin mascot a national power.

To the question at hand, it's too difficult to determine what's the "greatest rivalry" (as if such a thing exists). Duke-Carolina is fantastic. So is OSU-UM, and countless others. But it's apples and oranges. What makes OSU-UM great--the high stakes of college football and the way that game shapes the B10 and national landscape--can't be found in Duke-Carolina because its big manifestation is basketball, where individual games don't have as much riding on them. On the other hand, the close proximity of the schools and the cultural/demographic differences that make Duke-Carolina great are absent from other rivalries, including Ohio State-Michigan

Channing
12-04-2008, 11:04 AM
if we are talking greatest rivalries in sports, you have to include Galsgow Celtic and Glasgow Rangers. The bitterness certainly trumps anything in the US.

as for US rivalries - I would argue that the Iron bowl is a more heated rivalry than OU/UM, at least to those with a vested interest. OU/UM gets more national recognition.

Duke/Carolina is great, and obviously my favorite, but lets not forget that line monitors were out trying to get students to fill the student section for the home game in 2002 (I think it was - when UNC won like 8 games).

kmspeaks
12-04-2008, 11:09 AM
1. Players switch teams in pro baseball, not so in college hoops
2. Players interact a lot in college, often having played together in HS or summer leagues
3. Fans have to work with each other in the entire state.

No question in my mind Duke vs. unc is the greatest rivalry in sports, period.

I guess it depends on how you define the greatness of a rivalry. Is it the hatred, emotion, etc between the players or between the fans. If you're just counting the fan base then you could make more of an argument for Red Sox/Yankees or any other professional rivalries (even then I still think Duke/unc is the best). However if you want to look at the actual players, then there's no way Red Sox/Yankees has a place in the discussion. Johnny Damon obviously didn't hate the Yankees too much.

rasputin
12-04-2008, 12:19 PM
I would put our hoops rivalry with unc at the top, but Army-Navy football has to fit in somewhere too.

CameronBornAndBred
12-04-2008, 03:41 PM
Overall, when you do not separate individual sports, Duke-UNC hands down wins. Does any other college rivalry have a similar trophy such as the Carlyle Cup? I don't think any other schools have an award claiming overall bragging rights for the year based on all sports.

weezie
12-04-2008, 03:53 PM
Duke vs. unc is the best rivalry in sports. No doubt. I dislike unc so much that I hate to see them even mentioned on this website. Go Duke!


Yes indeed. And thank God I'm on the right side of the rivalry. Ugh, can you imagine spending your whole life hating on the Blue Devils? Horrendous!

Rudy
12-04-2008, 04:33 PM
Duke/unc at the top. All the others are arguments for 2nd place. You could argue Harvard/Yale is a sports rivalry to compete with any of the others. Those student groups despise/distrust/compete with each other across the board, all sports, all academic and research endeavors. The football game between the two, going since 1875, is always the last game of the year.

Yale's football coach just resigned under pressure despite a 70-49 record over 12 years, 23-7 over the past 3 years, two Ivy titles,, and last year was named Coach of the Year by the New England Football Writers Association. But his record against Harvard was 4-8 and 1-7 over the last 8 games.

DukeWarhead
12-04-2008, 06:00 PM
Having graduated grad school from Duke and then having taught at West Point for three years, I can tell you that the Army/Navy rivalry is just as substantive as Duke/UNC. For basketball fans, obviously Duke and UNC is the best rivalry, it always will be. But for everything else, Army/Navy beats out the other rivalries hands down. It's equal parts hate and mutual respect. It's the only rivalry that can make a 1-10 season seem like a huge success. It's the only rivalry I've seen that means absolutely everything to the players - who are not going on to professional sports, but are going off to a much different career. There is something really pure about it.
I'll always care more about seeing a Duke win over UNC, but the depth and purity of the Army/Navy rivalry is truly unique.

crimsonandblue
12-04-2008, 06:23 PM
Overall, when you do not separate individual sports, Duke-UNC hands down wins. Does any other college rivalry have a similar trophy such as the Carlyle Cup? I don't think any other schools have an award claiming overall bragging rights for the year based on all sports.

I'm certain many other rival schools have something akin to the Carlyle Cup. Kansas and Missouri have the annual Border War, now PC'd to Border Showdown. (http://kuathletics.cstv.com/trads/kan-border-showdown.html) A trophy is handed out for the overall results, but the winner of the football game also takes a commemorative drum and recently, a trophy.

I would imagine other rivals do this.

Stray Gator
12-04-2008, 07:34 PM
Auburn-Bama and OSU-UM sure, but Florida-Georgia is absolutely nowhere near the discussion. From a fan's perspective, barely anyone in Florida particularly cares about Georgia, at least not anymore than Duke fans care about Wake Forest or NC State. Florida fans dislike FSU far more.

I don't know where you got this notion, but as a Gator season ticket holder who has missed less than a dozen home games at the Swamp in the past 35 years, and who lived "among the savages" in Tallahassee through most of those years, I can assure you that the majority of Gator fans still consider Georgia to be our most hated rival, with FSU a close second. For younger fans, the gap between those two may have closed somewhat because Florida has won 16 of the last 19 from the Dawgs; but their 2007 "dancing in the end zone" win quickly rekindled the fire. And although there was a period during the 90s and early 00s when UF and FSU were slugging it out annually for national honors, now that the Gators have whipped the Noles for 5 straight years, they are sliding more towards the outer bands of UF fans' radar. The UF-FSU game is an exciting event, but it's not comparable to the World's Largest Outdoor Cocktail Party and the jousting between fans that surrounds it. Keep in mind that the Florida-Georgia rivalry not only has a much longer history, but is usually a crucial battle in the annual war for SEC supremecy.

blazindw
12-04-2008, 07:40 PM
I grew up outside Ann Arbor, so in my mind, Duke-UNC hoops and Michigan-OSU football are T-1 for best rivalry in America. My mom's from Alabama, and I spent a lot of time there...the Iron Bowl is a great rivalry, but in my mind doesn't hold a candle to Duke-UNC and Michigan-OSU.

As far as others, I think that Harvard-Yale deserves some mention as well, and I agree with those who say that Army-Navy is a special rivalry. I've always wanted to go to a game just to feel the atmosphere and the pride on both sides. Also, having attended Tha U and with my brother set to graduate from Texas on Saturday, Tha U-FSU in football is a hot rivalry as well as The Red River Shootout.

Wander
12-04-2008, 07:58 PM
Stray, I spent my entire life before college in Florida, so naturally I have a ton of buddies who went to UF. I just have never heard people talk about Georgia all that much. Keep in mind I am looking at this strictly from a fan's perspective - I completely agree that the Florida/Georgia games are more meaningful in the sport, and that the UF/UGA football game is way cooler than the UF/FSU game.

I remember my high school teacher showing us a video from the History Channel one day as a lesson, but "accidentally" putting his tape of UF beating down FSU instead. I just can't imagine anything like that ever happening with Georgia.

I can think of two explanations for our different experiences. One is the generational thing, as I'm a bit younger than you. The other is that I grew up in Broward County, ie really far away from the Georgia border.

Stray Gator
12-04-2008, 10:16 PM
Stray, I spent my entire life before college in Florida, so naturally I have a ton of buddies who went to UF. I just have never heard people talk about Georgia all that much. Keep in mind I am looking at this strictly from a fan's perspective - I completely agree that the Florida/Georgia games are more meaningful in the sport, and that the UF/UGA football game is way cooler than the UF/FSU game.

I remember my high school teacher showing us a video from the History Channel one day as a lesson, but "accidentally" putting his tape of UF beating down FSU instead. I just can't imagine anything like that ever happening with Georgia.

I can think of two explanations for our different experiences. One is the generational thing, as I'm a bit younger than you. The other is that I grew up in Broward County, ie really far away from the Georgia border.

The difference in age and geographic location probably explains the differences in perspective. I know some So Fla Gators who feel that Miami is the most reviled of UF's traditional rivals. By the same token, I know some Panhandle Gators who are still in mourning that the divisional alignment ended the annual clash with Auburn, which they felt was the biggest rival. I believe that if you polled the entire Gator Nation, though, the results would confirm that Georgia tops the list of teams UF fans want to beat year in and year out. I'll concede, however, that there have been periods during the Bowden era when FSU may have claimed that distinction.

ugadevil
12-04-2008, 10:28 PM
I'll respond to the UGA/FLA thing from the Georgia perspective. Georgia fans certainly consider Florida to be their biggest rival. While the Ga. Tech rivalry is strong, UGA tends to view them as the annoying school down the road with all the nerds and ugly people. The feelings towards Florida are more intense and focused around hating everything about the Gators.

throatybeard
12-04-2008, 10:43 PM
The difference in age and geographic location probably explains the differences in perspective. I know some So Fla Gators who feel that Miami is the most reviled of UF's traditional rivals. By the same token, I know some Panhandle Gators who are still in mourning that the divisional alignment ended the annual clash with Auburn, which they felt was the biggest rival. I believe that if you polled the entire Gator Nation, though, the results would confirm that Georgia tops the list of teams UF fans want to beat year in and year out. I'll concede, however, that there have been periods during the Bowden era when FSU may have claimed that distinction.

My friend from UF, ugrad 1993-1997, says there's an age-grading going on with Florida fans. The gist of it was that older folks still hated Georgia the most, especially from the period when UF wasn't that good and Georgia was; early middle-aged older and young adults hate FSU the most; and the whippersnappers who don't know what's going on hate Tennessee the most. Don't know if that's accurate, but I thought it was an interesting explanation.

CameronBornAndBred
12-04-2008, 10:53 PM
I'm certain many other rival schools have something akin to the Carlyle Cup. Kansas and Missouri have the annual Border War, now PC'd to Border Showdown. (http://kuathletics.cstv.com/trads/kan-border-showdown.html)A trophy is handed out for the overall results, but the winner of the football game also takes a commemorative drum and recently, a trophy.

I would imagine other rivals do this.
Cool, thanks for the link. Good to see other schools do this, but no way on the planet that Kansas and Missouri's rivalry touches what Duke-UNC has. I didn't know they had a rivalry before reading what you posted. Our football winner also gets a prize, and one day that bell will be back in Durham.

ricks68
12-04-2008, 11:26 PM
Try Texas-OU football. It used to be Texas and A & M until A & M has been stinking it up for a number of years now. Also, I think that if you could get UT football fans in Cameron, you might be able to match the decibel level that we can usually generate. And, like us, they talk about their favorite sports team allllllllllllll year long. In fact, on talk radio shows, UT football wins out over ANY other sports team no matter what the season is.

(UT football might night count in the collegiate sports best rivalry category, however, as UT is not located in the U.S.)

ricks

Heelkiller1
12-05-2008, 12:16 AM
I'd list Michigan-OSU, Florida-Georgia, and Bama-Auburn as the biggest football ones... and those are pretty comparable to Duke-Carolina in their own right.

I am from Alabama and am a Auburn fan , and that match up along with all the others on this list don't even come close to matching the Duke-Unc rivalry . Alabama and Auburn are hours from each other. And all the others aren't even in the same state. Duke-Unc are close enough to throw a rock at each other. That alone makes it more intense. That being said I am a little mystified by the rivalry is what it is ,being that Unc sucks.LOL

Davidson09
12-05-2008, 12:26 AM
Maybe in Western sports.

In the realm of cricket, there's nothing that compares to India vs. Pakistan. Close to 1.5 billion people passionately support one team or the other. That's pretty huge. Not a big deal in the states, because cricket isn't a big deal in the states.

Basketball is becoming more of a globalized sport, sure. As intense as Duke-UNC is, India-Pakistan, I believe, is the greatest rivalry in sports.

NYC Duke Fan
12-05-2008, 07:09 AM
Yankees -Red Sox in all sports. They play each other 18 times during the regular season and could conceivably play one another 7 more times in the playoffs for a total of 25 times.

The most Duke-UNC could play one another in basketball is 4 times.

jv001
12-05-2008, 07:34 AM
I would put our hoops rivalry with unc at the top, but Army-Navy football has to fit in somewhere too.

I almost put Army-Navy in my list, but even though I'm an Army vet I still pull for Navy unless they are playing Duke or Army. I like all our Service Schools but I cannot root for unc no matter who they are playing. No not anyone. I would root for Iran, Taliban and even Maryland over the unc tarholes. Can't stand em. Go Duke!

DeepBlue70
12-05-2008, 04:45 PM
Yankees -Red Sox in all sports. They play each other 18 times during the regular season and could conceivably play one another 7 more times in the playoffs for a total of 25 times.

The most Duke-UNC could play one another in basketball is 4 times.

This original post specified the greatest rivalry in college sports. The thread seems to have been hijacked by baseball fans and even by the Indians and Pakistanis! Back to the original question and my personal measuring stick: I don't ever want to see Duke and Carolina meet in the National Championship game. Not sure the loser could live with the outcome. The rival fans are just too partisan, too over-the-top and too close by to make life livable ever again for the loser. The reason this rivalry is simply the best is that that scenario is a possibility more years than not and the potential of losing that game is simply intolerable to most.

ugadevil
12-05-2008, 11:38 PM
Try Texas-OU football. It used to be Texas and A & M until A & M has been stinking it up for a number of years now. Also, I think that if you could get UT football fans in Cameron, you might be able to match the decibel level that we can usually generate. And, like us, they talk about their favorite sports team allllllllllllll year long. In fact, on talk radio shows, UT football wins out over ANY other sports team no matter what the season is.

(UT football might night count in the collegiate sports best rivalry category, however, as UT is not located in the U.S.)

ricks

I think this rivalry will heat up even more once Mack Brown retires and Will Muschamp takes over the Texas program. I see Muschamp as being a guy who won't be afraid to speak his mind and it'll probably add some tension between the two schools that already hate each other. Right now, Mack Brown is always extremely respectful and complimentary and doesn't seem to say anything that would ever offend opposing teams or fans. I'll be sad to see Mack go when he decides he's finished coaching - he seems like a truly decent man and his record speaks for itself.

dukebluelemur
12-06-2008, 01:21 AM
You know, not meaning to be a downer, I'm fairly sure I remember multiple other threads over the years with this topic. Maybe it warrants an addition to the DBR Handy Pocket Reference?

9(o)?
13(j)?

(Also, when skimming through it again to check and see if it was already there, I noticed the manifesto could use a serious updating... )

Oh. And 9f! 9f! 9f!

captmojo
12-06-2008, 09:02 AM
When was the last time, before Tom O'Brien, that any ACC member hired a coach away from another member institution?

I think in football, the SEC has some great intensity and performances, but the level of respectful rivalry between Duke/holes tops all, in all competitive spots.


9F exponentially. :cool:

jimsumner
12-06-2008, 11:41 AM
"This original post specified the greatest rivalry in college sports. The thread seems to have been hijacked by baseball fans and even by the Indians and Pakistanis"

Troy-Greece? Athens-Sparta? Rome-Carthage? Hitler-Stalin?

Now, that's rivalry.

RE: O'Brien. UNC hired alum Jim Tatum away from Maryland in the middle
1950s. NC State hired Press Maravich away from Clemson, even though Maravich took a temporary demotion as assistant to terminally ill Everett Case.

Plenty of examples in non-revenue sports.

But head-coach to head-coach in revenue sports is pretty rare.

And lots of assistant to head coach transitions, the most prominent example to Duke fans being Vic Bubas.