Doyel vs DeCourcy on Duke-Purdue

[BlueintheFace]

http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/11147806

I pretty much agree with everything he says (except about Purdue making a championship run). Very good read.

[Johnboy]

Decent article for Doyel, I guess. I think he sells several Duke players short on their NBA potential, but the general idea is OK. Thanks for linking it.

[Acymetric]

ummm... good point. I think since I agreed with it I assumed it was Parrish. My bad

Great, now I gave Doyel an extra click. I did read some of it. Got through him saying that G and Kyle would have brief stints as benchwarmers and nobody else on the team had a chance at the league before I closed it. Neither one will necessarily be a star, but I expect at least one to have a fairly long career, and Jumbo has been telling us about Jon for so long I'm starting to believe that too (he certainly looks the part on the court. The reason people have trouble believing it is that he looks so small. I think he can either get a little bigger or just be a good, thin player).

The point about no other really dominant teams is probably fairly accurate, though I feel like things will wind up with a few more teams clearly above the rest. Happens just about every year, doesn't it?

Edit: Should probably change the title so others don't make the same mistake...

[Abraxas]

DeCourcy:
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=492970

Very nice analysis. Considerably polite while still objective.

Doyel:
http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/11147806/1

As usual, basic premise that UNC is the best team in Men's CBK might be true, but he can't resist to take shots at Duke. His comment about Henderson is just plain stupid. ... "not even an [sic] NBDL skill set." Right now, GH would get drafted within the top 20 of the NBA draft. http://www.nbadraft.net/mocks/2009_nba_mock_draft.html

However, Doyel also wrote this on his blog: http://www.sportsline.com/mcc/blogs/entry/5881996/12049863
"Purdue booed Coach K ... and I didn't like it
Posted on: December 3, 2008 12:12 am"
I completely agree.

[CameronCrazy'11]

He's a master of exaggeration. Singler and Henderson will probably start in the N.B.A. someday. Scheyer, Nolan, and maybe Elliot could end up there as well. And the field other than Carolina isn't really as bad as he says.

[mo.st.dukie]

He's a master of exaggeration. Singler and Henderson will probably start in the N.B.A. someday. Scheyer, Nolan, and maybe Elliot could end up there as well. And the field other than Carolina isn't really as bad as he says.

I agree that we have alot more NBA potential on this team then he gives the team credit for but I understand what he means because right at this moment I don't think Singler or Henderson look like NBA starters. Give both another year and things will be different. Scheyer, with the way he's playing, can possibly have a shot, may need to convert to a PG in the NBA though. Nolan and Elliot will be NBA players but again, right at this moment they just don't look like it and this season is what Doyel is talking about. Who knows, maybe if Lance develops a mid range jumper he could make it as an undrafted free agent after next year.

[CameronCrazy'11]

Well yeah, they don't look like players who could play in the N.B.A. right now. That's probably the main reason they're in college and not the N.B.A. But that wasn't what he was saying. His argument was that nobody other than Henderson and Singler would ever be an N.B.A. player and that Singler and Henderson would never amount to anything in the N.B.A., which is a pretty stupid argument to make.

[heyman25]

Henderson has all the athletic capabilities David Thompson had, but none of the dazzling basketball skills the original Skywalker had.I am surprised his Dad hasn't intervened in the off season to get him some moxie. He should be taking over games like Singler. He had a great defensive game,but I am mystified why he can't score over 20 a game.He can take it to the rack but was only 1 for 8 tonight.

He won't get much pt in the NBA with his underachieving scoring game. You need both skill sets offense and defense.It is a weak draft compared to the last 2 years,but both him and Singler would benefit improving their games before leaving Duke for the NBA. I want them both back next season of course.

[Oriole Way]

Doyel is a complete joke and this article is just another example.

So what if Duke doesn't have any sure-fire NBA starters? Neither does North Carolina, a team that everyone pumps up and thinks could go undefeated. I just don't understand how three guys who weren't good enough to be selected in the first 20 picks in last year's draft can be considered NBA starters. Hansbrough, Ellington, and Green will NEVER start in the NBA consistently. Lawson has a shot, but he needs to vastly improve his jump shot to start for a team.

Singler and Henderson have a chance to be starters in a few years. If Singler lands in a good situation, he could be starting sooner than Gerald because his game is more NBA-ready. Believe it or not, I think Elliot Williams has the best chance to be an NBA starter of anyone on the team. He has everything you could possibly want in a guard - size, athleticism, ability to drive, ability to shoot, and he should be strong enough by the time he hits the league. I fully expect Williams to be an All-Conference player by the end of his junior season. Smith and Scheyer will also play in the NBA. If Chris Quinn can get consistent minutes in the NBA, so can Scheyer. They are very similar players.

That's 5 NBA players. Doyel just doesn't know what he's talking about, and his petty vendettas make him one of my least favorite sports writers.

[moonpie23]

i wonder if (i won't waste time going back to look) had similar comments about the UNC three that TRIED to be NBA players last year.....i wonder if he thought JJ HIXSON had any "skill sets"....

just curious...

[trinity92]

That's 5 NBA players.

Make it 6-- I think McClure will find his way onto an NBA squad. You heard it here first.

[SlimSlowSlider]

Make it 6-- I think McClure will find his way onto an NBA squad. You heard it here first.

I like Dave a lot, but have to believe that comment is a product of a pair (or two) of dark blue glasses. :p

[trinity92]

I like Dave a lot, but have to believe that comment is a product of a pair (or two) of dark blue glasses. :p

Not surprised to hear this, and I'm certainly not going to put my money where my mouth is right now, but I've been watching this game for a long time. Guys who tear it up in college are not the guys who necessarily tear it up in the pros. Dave has great size for an NBA 2 and rebounds better than most NBA shooting guards I can think of. Just because he isn't a star at Duke doesn't mean he can't be a solid NBA rotation guy-- the opposite also applies: seePhil Henderson, Robert Brickey, Thomas Hill, Jeff Capel, Will Avery, Trajan Langdon, Dan Ewing, Shelden Williams, JJ, DeMarcus.

[sagegrouse]

There are nine Blue Devils in the NBA who are first-line players -- either starters or players their team really depend on --

Six were high draft choices: Hill, Brand, Battier, Dunleavy, Deng and Maggette (high given that he was a freshman).

The other three weren't -- Boozer, Duhon (21 and 13 assists the last two games), and Dahntay Jones.

I would expect one or more first-line players to emerge from Singler, Scheyer, Henderson, or N. Smith among the upperclassmen. Who knows about the freshmen?

sagegroiuse

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I thought Pat Forde's article was great.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&id=3740803&sportCat=ncb

[SMO]

I thought Pat Forde's article was great.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&id=3740803&sportCat=ncb

He really has turned over a new leaf. First he said good things about Coach K and the Olympic team, and now this article.

I still remember the hack job he wrote a few years ago after the UNC game where he referred to Duke as D**k. You'd think most writers who want to be taken seriously wouldn't be so blatant about their bias.

[BlueintheFace]

I think you guys are focusing on the two or three negative lines in the article about Duke's NBA Talent.

The point of the article is to point out the interesting dynamic of the NCAA this year where it looks like North Carolina's talent level combined with experience has significantly separated itself from everyone else, AND, that second tier of contenders is enormous as opposed to the usual 4 or 5 teams.

Re: His snipe about our NBA talent, it isn't really an insult at all. It is mostly true. While I disagree about Kyle Singler, if you tell me that G is an NBA contributor player right now, I'll laugh at you. You can't play in the NBA without a left hand... you just can't. His point is that usually you have multiple teams with a future NBA lottery pick on good teams. These players usually have the ability to take their team to the next level (Imagine Steph Curry on a good team... then it is Carolina and whatever team Steph Curry is on at the top).... but this year Duke is going to have to make it all through collective, scrappy, team ball... seems true to me. Singler might become that player, but he's not there yet.

[Kedsy]

His comment about Henderson is just plain stupid. ... "not even an [sic] NBDL skill set." Right now, GH would get drafted within the top 20 of the NBA draft. http://www.nbadraft.net/mocks/2009_nba_mock_draft.html


Yes, Doyel went for the cheap joke, but what he's really saying is G's draft position would be purely based on athleticism and potential. And judging by his play so far this season that would be hard to disagree with.

Interestingly, despite some comments on the board recently that Ty Lawson is far and away the best point guard in the country, the mock draft link above has him as the 6th PG taken (27th overall).

[Kedsy]

Not surprised to hear this, and I'm certainly not going to put my money where my mouth is right now, but I've been watching this game for a long time. Guys who tear it up in college are not the guys who necessarily tear it up in the pros. Dave has great size for an NBA 2 and rebounds better than most NBA shooting guards I can think of. Just because he isn't a star at Duke doesn't mean he can't be a solid NBA rotation guy-- the opposite also applies: seePhil Henderson, Robert Brickey, Thomas Hill, Jeff Capel, Will Avery, Trajan Langdon, Dan Ewing, Shelden Williams, JJ, DeMarcus.

The problem with this argument is that Dave McClure is not even a college 2 much less an NBA 2. He has the size and rebounding ability, probably even the defensive quickness (although those NBA 2's are awfully quick), but he doesn't have one offensive skill needed to be an NBA 2. DeMarcus Nelson is a little smaller than McClure, but his rebounding and defense are just as good or better, and his offense is light years ahead. He wasn't even considered as a 2 -- he had to convert to point guard to make a roster and even then he was dropped to the D-league after a few games. McClure may play in Europe, but he's not destined for the NBA.

[Acymetric]

The problem with this argument is that Dave McClure is not even a college 2 much less an NBA 2. He has the size and rebounding ability, probably even the defensive quickness (although those NBA 2's are awfully quick), but he doesn't have one offensive skill needed to be an NBA 2. DeMarcus Nelson is a little smaller than McClure, but his rebounding and defense are just as good or better, and his offense is light years ahead. He wasn't even considered as a 2 -- he had to convert to point guard to make a roster and even then he was dropped to the D-league after a few games. McClure may play in Europe, but he's not destined for the NBA.

I'm not saying he'll play in the NBA (I think he has a good shot in Europe if he wants) but he is not "a little" taller than Nelson. He's 6'6, and I've never got the impression that is terribly far off. Nelson is 6'1 (admittedly with long arms). Dave is much more suited to play the 2 than Nelson. Dave would be a low defense, high defense 2 in a 2's body. Nelson's game suits a 2 or 3 better, but he is forced to play at the 1 due to size, making it difficult for him to play.

Dave would have to show some sign of offense this year to get a shot at the NBA, but he would be able to play defense as well as (probably better than) Nelson in the NBA due to his size. I predict that, assuming he wants to play basketball after college, he will play overseas unless we see a big improvement in offense. Comparing him to Nelson is way off though, they aren't the same player at all. The only common element is good defense.

[SupaDave]

No NBA players - seriously?

http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/11147806

[juise]

Posted a couple of times last night and threads were merged. (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13042)

[SupaDave]

My bad - I didn't even see this thread. I stopped reading after he said "G" wasn't an NBA player. Looks like someone just got him some bulletin board material.