Duke 95, Duquesne 72 post-game thread

[Jumbo]

Now THAT was the beatdown I was looking for. The final score is deceiving if you didn't see the game -- Duquesne went on a late 12-0 run before Paulus hit a three. Duke led by as many as 39 and basically just kept increasing the lead all game, until that streak at the end by Duquesne.

The passing and commitment to pushing the basketball was far and away the best we've seen all season. My favorite play was after Duquesne scored in the first half, Duke inbounded, Paulus took a couple of dribbles then made the quick hit-ahead up the sideline (finally!) to Henderson. G grabbed it, took one dribble and hit Lance, who had been running his lane right down the middle, for an easy bucket. Textbook.

Fantastic effort and a heck of a performance by Lance Thomas.

[Bob Green]

Post your game thoughts here. Lance Thomas had a great game! 21 points on 8-8 shooting from the field.

[JDev]

Great to see Duke push the ball and play at a faster pace. They weren't simply pushing the ball for its sake, they were opportunistic. Lance Thomas played as well as he has in a Duke uniform. I know there was some talk in the preseason about Lance's role on the team, due to Zoubek's health and improvement, and the addition of Plumlee, two guys physically more suited to play the 5, along with Singler having a strangle-hold on the 4 spot. Some worried Lance would be the odd man out. He has clearly found his niche and is a very important part of this team.

[JDev]

Also, I hope Nolan's back problems are nothing major.

[sandinmyshoes]

Good effort and a decent job of keeping focus in a route. Lance fits in nicely with the uptempo offense and the agressive defense.

Very nice tuneup for the next few games.

[wallyman]

Lance obviously the story of the day.

But Greg looked healthy for the first time all year. Nice to see him knocking down threes and running the offense with authority.

Plus Z's steal and score and nice minutes from Marty.

Great game all around.:)

[sagegrouse]

I believe Marty Pocious earned some more minutes with his play tonight.

No comment on Olek's time on the court.

sagegrouse

[1Devil]

Great game for Lance. I hope he remembers that it all came to him. None of it was him trying to force anything.

[Jumbo]

I believe Marty Pocious earned some more minutes with his play tonight.

No comment on Olek's time on the court.

sagegrouse

Not so sure I agree with that. His crossover/drive/finish was a memorable play, as was his finish on the break off the pass from Williams. But I watched him closely on D (because I'd really like to see him develop as an extra weapon in games where we're struggling to knock down shots) and he really had some problems. He had a couple of silly fouls, lost his man in rotations and made a few other mistakes. I'm rooting hard for Marty, and I still think he can be used situationally when the team needs an offensive spark. But I don't think he has made a case to move ahead of anyone in the rotation.
(To be fair, a Paulus/Pocius backcourt is far and away Duke's weakest combo. And, sure enough, when they were in together, Duke got outscored 28-11. Yes, you read that correctly. Put Pocius next to Smith and perhaps some of these problems aren't as evident.)

[CameronCrazy'11]

Unfortunately, Pocius is and should be the 3rd guard off the bench, and if Email keeps improving, that gap will be even bigger.

[DukeCO2009]

Hopefully this earned Lance the starting gig. That's not to knock Z, because he played solid basketball as well; Thomas, though, IMO, is clearly the man for the job. He's more physical, is a better rebounder, can handle it better, and is quicker than Brian. Zoubek is a better passer, to be sure, but I'm not sure that outweighs Lance's contributions. Again, I don't at all mean to bash Brian, but Lance showed me something today. I've seen flashes of his talent in the past, and it was great to see him finally put things together. Here's hoping this was a coming out party rather than a one game aberration. He's our X-factor--if he plays well, we're a different team.

[Charles Wicker]

something fishy. It stinks!

[Troublemaker]

Hopefully this earned Lance the starting gig. That's not to knock Z, because he played solid basketball as well; Thomas, though, IMO, is clearly the man for the job. He's more physical, is a better rebounder, can handle it better, and is quicker than Brian. Zoubek is a better passer, to be sure, but I'm not sure that outweighs Lance's contributions. Again, I don't at all mean to bash Brian, but Lance showed me something today. I've seen flashes of his talent in the past, and it was great to see him finally put things together. Here's hoping this was a coming out party rather than a one game aberration. He's our X-factor--if he plays well, we're a different team.

There really isn't any need to change the rotation right now or to care who the starter is; like Coach K said, it just doesn't matter. We don't need to create a Lance vs Z thing because they both have roles and can both be productive in the right spots against the right opponents. This opponent, Duquesne, particularly favored Lance because they were small at all positions and Duke could switch every screen with Lance in there. Furthermore, Z could not stay in front of his smaller man as usual. But in those games where the opponent has a huge guy in the middle, Z will be important. I'm actually just glad that Z has started putting the ball in the basket and can actually play to a draw against a small guy nowadays, i.e. they both hurt each other on offense.

[Jumbo]

There really isn't any need to change the rotation right now or to care who the starter is; like Coach K said, it just doesn't matter. We don't need to create a Lance vs Z thing because they both have roles and can both be productive in the right spots against the right opponents. This opponent, Duquesne, particularly favored Lance because they were small at all positions and Duke could switch every screen with Lance in there. Furthermore, Z could not stay in front of his smaller man as usual. But in those games where the opponent has a huge guy in the middle, Z will be important. I'm actually just glad that Z has started putting the ball in the basket and can actually play to a draw against a small guy nowadays, i.e. they both hurt each other on offense.

Exactly. And I can see Plumlee coming along. K said after one of the recent games that Plumlee is capable of making a quick leap. I don't care which of those guys starts, I don't care which finishes, I don't care how their minutes are allotted in a given game, as long as at least one of them plays well enough to earn the biggest chunk each night.

[ForeverBlowingBubbles]

This was the most entertained I've been all season. We were rotating the ball on every possession and moving it on the breaks as well. As a result I think we saw a few more assists then usual, our transition game was a lot better, and we were more fun to watch.

I do have one question - I don't know if its just me.

Does anyone else notice that when Zoubek gets beat or makes a mistake himself (on offense or defense) he often looks and yells immediately at one of his teammates? I played soccer with numerous players that had that same bad habit of putting out blame to others in the heat of the moment after they made a mistake. I could be wrong in that he is just yelling out loud at himself but it looks to me like hes yelling at players on the team. Anyone else see this?

[FireOgilvie]

Does anyone else notice that when Zoubek gets beat or makes a mistake himself (on offense or defense) he often looks and yells immediately at one of his teammates? I played soccer with numerous players that had that same bad habit of putting out blame to others in the heat of the moment after they made a mistake. I could be wrong in that he is just yelling out loud at himself but it looks to me like hes yelling at players on the team. Anyone else see this?

I've noticed him doing it mostly when he gets beat on defense and someone doesn't rotate in to help.

[Lord Ash]

Good game, fun to watch!

For someone with more interesting insights (as well as a debate on what the single best leftover of Thanksgiving is) please see the blog listed in my sig.

[KandG]

(To be fair, a Paulus/Pocius backcourt is far and away Duke's weakest combo. And, sure enough, when they were in together, Duke got outscored 28-11. Yes, you read that correctly.


I'm not remotely as smart as Jumbo, but it was glaringly obvious just by watching how poor the Paulus/Pocius backcourt was defensively -- the only good stretch Duquesne really had was with those two basically allowing penetration and getting bumped off screens too easily.

Otherwise, it was a wonderful game to watch -- so many highlights. Nolan Smith making like Rodney Stuckey on the 3 point play (with significant contact), Zoubek finishing on a smooth layup in transition, Lance with the "and 2" on the finish with the intentional foul, Nolan dishing to Scheyer for the 3 after being stripped in the lane. Defensively, we were as tough as we've been all season and played the passing lanes extremely well, with help coming when we overcommitted.

Can't wait to see how we do against Purdue, which will obviously be orders of magnitude more difficult.

[Bob Green]

I don't care which of those guys starts, I don't care which finishes, I don't care how their minutes are allotted in a given game...

Our three-headed post player scored 31 points, grabbed 13 rebounds, blocked six shots, and had three steals in 44 minutes of action. That is a very solid performance.

[sagegrouse]

Not so sure I agree with that. His crossover/drive/finish was a memorable play, as was his finish on the break off the pass from Williams. But I watched him closely on D (because I'd really like to see him develop as an extra weapon in games where we're struggling to knock down shots) and he really had some problems. He had a couple of silly fouls, lost his man in rotations and made a few other mistakes. I'm rooting hard for Marty, and I still think he can be used situationally when the team needs an offensive spark. But I don't think he has made a case to move ahead of anyone in the rotation.
(To be fair, a Paulus/Pocius backcourt is far and away Duke's weakest combo. And, sure enough, when they were in together, Duke got outscored 28-11. Yes, you read that correctly. Put Pocius next to Smith and perhaps some of these problems aren't as evident.)

Plus-minus rocks!! But in Marty's and Greg's defense, I thought that if Olek had played the rest of the game, our entire 40 point lead could have disappeared.

Clearly, I agree that Marty's defense was marked by mistakes. I thought, however, he did a good job of staying in front of his man -- which is an improvement over two years ago.

He had some highlight plays on offense, including the rocket pass inside to Plumlee (or Zoubek?). It was real progress. I am not making a case that he should move up the rotation, but that he earned some minutes -- and will get them.

sagegrouse

[dukeballer2294]

Great all around game! just hope Nolan's back is ok

[roywhite]

Post-game quotes as posted on goduke.com

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=3624556

What caught me eye were Coach K's comments on Singler, including:
...."the kid loves to play. It’s such an honor to coach that kid.”

High praise for a player 7 games into his sophomore season.

[_Gary]

I don't agree with Jumbo's comments about Marty's D. I watched him too, and while he did lose his man a couple of times he also stayed in front of his man and actually had a deflection once or twice. I thought he was miles ahead of where he was defensively last year. And his offense, ballhandling, and passing were impressive to me. Now, I'm not saying he should supplant anyone. I'm just saying I saw some solid improvements in his game and for my money on this day he was significantly better than Elliot.

I do agree, however, that you can't have him and Paulus on the court together for any length of time. That does create a very poor backcourt defensively even though I think Marty's gotten better in that area. But, as Jumbo said, if we could see him play along side Nolan I believe it could be a nice combination.

Nice job all the way around for the Devils today. Purdue will offer quite a challenge though.

[shadowfax336]

Plus-minus rocks!! But in Marty's and Greg's defense, I thought that if Olek had played the rest of the game, our entire 40 point lead could have disappeared.
sagegrouse

This is quite true. Not disputing that a Marty-Greg backcourt is a bad idea (I think there's clearly not enough defense out there... But the plus minus is really skewed by having them in there at the end when it looked like Miles and Olek were competing to see who could look more lost (not down on Miles at all, he just looked like a freshman at the end of the game)

[Saratoga2]

It was impressive the way the ball movement gave us good looks which we hit. Also impressive the way that Thomas and to some extent Zoubek handled passes made to them.

Like others, I felt our freshmen did not play that well. Plumlee and Czyz didn't look solid on defense nor rebounding. I also felt that Williams seemed to be having difficulties both defensively and offensively. In past games his defense seemed much better than this afternoon and and he didn't look as good going to the hoop. Anyway, it was a great opportunity to play a lot of combinations and to so how the less experienced guys held up.

[zingit]

Does anyone else notice that when Zoubek gets beat or makes a mistake himself (on offense or defense) he often looks and yells immediately at one of his teammates? I played soccer with numerous players that had that same bad habit of putting out blame to others in the heat of the moment after they made a mistake. I could be wrong in that he is just yelling out loud at himself but it looks to me like hes yelling at players on the team. Anyone else see this?

You could be right, but in my view it always seems directed at himself. I've seen him look aggravated or yell out a curse word numerous times, and thought that he needs to stop being so hard on himself. I never saw it as directed towards teammates. But then again, I'm not in their huddles, so what do I know.

Great game today! Loved seeing Lance have a breakout game.

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

Great game. Lance was terrific. Singler has become consistently good ... always contributing by scoring rebounding, passing, etc. Great court presence. Duke's season success will be lead by Singler while Henderson still seems to disappear at times. Paulus looked good. First real test will be at Purdue.

[captmojo]

78.9%!!!!!

Not just a beautiful thing from the floor play, which it was, but (note to opponents) this team doesn't leave scoring chances behind at the free throw line. Great job all the way around. Keep up the good work.




Next victim please.

[devildeac]

Hope folks noticed the reaction from the bench, especially GH, as BZ made the steal, dribbled about 2/3 the length of the court and then had about a 180 degree, kinda over the shoulder layup for the bucket at the end of the drive. A dunk there and CIS may have imploded. Great stuff.

[captmojo]

I did.

Gorilla glue is good stuff. Put me back together

[roywhite]

Great game. Lance was terrific. Singler has become consistently good ... always contributing by scoring rebounding, passing, etc. Great court presence. Duke's season success will be lead by Singler while Henderson still seems to disappear at times. Paulus looked good. First real test will be at Purdue.

The stats bear out Singler's excellence. After 7 games he leads the team in scoring, rebounding, and assists (16.7 pts, 6.9 rebs, 3.3 ast/gm) and is tied for second in steals (1.7/gm).

Another set of stats that is encouraging is the team FT shooting at 74%, this even with a 25-49 vs Ga Southern in the 2nd game.

[sagegrouse]

Hope folks noticed the reaction from the bench, especially GH, as BZ made the steal, dribbled about 2/3 the length of the court and then had about a 180 degree, kinda over the shoulder layup for the bucket at the end of the drive. A dunk there and CIS may have imploded. Great stuff.

Also impressive wass that the producer in the truck apparently knew the Duke bench would be going berserk, because he immediately cut to that shot.

sagegrouse

[davekay1971]

Great game, and a great job by the team. Smith continues to impress me. Greg finally looked like himself. Singler is just a phenomenal player. Thomas - wow. Zoubek showed me things in his game I really hadn't seen before - better agility, movement, aggression...great game for him. Can't wait to see us go up against Purdue.

[dukestheheat]

Foreverblowingbubbles-

I have seen Zoubek look disgusted after he makes a bad play, but I don't take it as him projecting this onto others (only getting on 'himself'). He just vocalizes his disgust with himself, I think.

Now, Sweat Gary Sweat Williams of Maryland is a weird dude when it comes to actually yelling AT his own players ON THE BENCH! Almost forever, I have noticed that when something goes wrong on the COURT, he immediately turns around and bellows at the dudes sitting down on the pine. It's almost like, over time, those guys are totally oblivious to Sweat's routine, because most just seem to blow it off. He really does remind me of what that character 'Rumpelstiltskin' would like like when he gets mad in the fairy tale.

dth.

[BlueintheFace]

I have simply one thought about the game-- Brian Zoubek should run the break for us from now on. His breakaway was the play of the game!!

[Jumbo]

Hope folks noticed the reaction from the bench, especially GH, as BZ made the steal, dribbled about 2/3 the length of the court and then had about a 180 degree, kinda over the shoulder layup for the bucket at the end of the drive. A dunk there and CIS may have imploded. Great stuff.

Gerald on that play (per goduke.com): "That was the funniest thing I've ever seen in my life. First off, you don't see Zoubs all the way out there contesting a whole lot, but then he got the steal and he finished it with the butter roll, and that was nice. I've never seen that from Zoubs. It was pretty impressive."

[ncexnyc]

Not so sure I agree with that. His crossover/drive/finish was a memorable play, as was his finish on the break off the pass from Williams. But I watched him closely on D (because I'd really like to see him develop as an extra weapon in games where we're struggling to knock down shots) and he really had some problems. He had a couple of silly fouls, lost his man in rotations and made a few other mistakes. I'm rooting hard for Marty, and I still think he can be used situationally when the team needs an offensive spark. But I don't think he has made a case to move ahead of anyone in the rotation.
(To be fair, a Paulus/Pocius backcourt is far and away Duke's weakest combo. And, sure enough, when they were in together, Duke got outscored 28-11. Yes, you read that correctly. Put Pocius next to Smith and perhaps some of these problems aren't as evident.)

But that 28-11 run you are talking about came with the the other subs playing as well. If this unit had been getting consistent time as a group in the past I would buy into this and say your point is valid, but if we go by numbers alone then someone could say that Paulus wasn't cutting it as well and that he doesn't deserve anymore playing time.

[Son of Mojo]

Loved how we got up by 39 and finally started to stick more outside shots. Lance looked really good, Kyle was solid, Zoubek did show some more positives with his offense (him running the court and hitting the wrong-side layup was something I was in shock about). Did not care for how for a lot of the first half we were simply trading baskets with them or how our bench quit playing efficient offense and especially defense in the last 10 minutes of the game. Also.......who was the moron announcer calling Cameron "Cameron Indoor Fieldhouse" early in the game??? To paraphrase Homer Simpson, I wanted to hurt him so much.......

[ncexnyc]

While I loved Brian's steal and the resulting basket. I got verrrrrrrry nervous watching him dribble towards the basket. You could almost see that he wasn't sure what he was going to do once he got to the basket.

That was an extremely dangerous play and it could have ended in disaster for him.

[Jumbo]

But that 28-11 run you are talking about came with the the other subs playing as well. If this unit had been getting consistent time as a group in the past I would buy into this and say your point is valid, but if we go by numbers alone then someone could say that Paulus wasn't cutting it as well and that he doesn't deserve anymore playing time.

I'm not sure you quite get what I'm saying. A) I'm certainly not going by numbers alone. B) I'm saying Paulus/Pocius isn't a good defensive combination. C) I'm not saying Pocius shouldn't play because how the team performed when he was in with Paulus.

Basically, I'm saying Marty made a few nice plays today, but also a few bad ones, that he wasn't paired with an ideal mate in the backcourt, but that he also hasn't shown nearly enough to displace anyone ahead of him in the rotation.

Oh, and the group on the floor during that 28-11 stretch was basically Duke's "Blue Team." They play together in practice every day. And if they were facing Duquesne's subs, that should have only made the game easier for them.

[Newton_14]

Great all around game. Hats off to LT, continuing to prove that hard work pays off. If only he were 6'10 instead of 6'8....

Finally saw the fast breaks I have been waiting on. They had several very smooth breaks today moving the ball with the pass leading to dunks, three's, etc. Very nice and they need that to take pressure off the half court sets, which by the way were also much better today. And finally all of that led to shooters in the ready to shoot position, which led to a must better percentage of 3's going down. I expect we will see that continue. There are too many good shooters on this team not to regularly shoot the 3-Ball well. Great to see Greg get going with his shot.

I missed the first 5 minutes thanks to the GU/UT game, but shortly after they switched the feed I learned the Duke game was being played today at "Cameron Indoor Fieldhouse"... anyone else catch that?? How could an announcer possibly make that mistake???

Loved the Zoub baby finger roll.. Would have given anything for him to have been able to dunk that... Would have brought "CIF" down! And to offer my two cents on his screaming, that was directed at Paulus for not helping on the blow by. He did the same thing to LT in The Garden...

[jlear]

While I loved Brian's steal and the resulting basket. I got verrrrrrrry nervous watching him dribble towards the basket. You could almost see that he wasn't sure what he was going to do once he got to the basket.

That was an extremely dangerous play and it could have ended in disaster for him.

But having fun is necessary and you can get injured on any play. We have all wanted to see the big fellow get more aggressive on the court and that type of play is part of it. I hope he continues down this aggressive path all the way to a great battle with Hanstravel.

[ncexnyc]

I'm not sure you quite get what I'm saying. A) I'm certainly not going by numbers alone. B) I'm saying Paulus/Pocius isn't a good defensive combination. C) I'm not saying Pocius shouldn't play because how the team performed when he was in with Paulus.

Basically, I'm saying Marty made a few nice plays today, but also a few bad ones, that he wasn't paired with an ideal mate in the backcourt, but that he also hasn't shown nearly enough to displace anyone ahead of him in the rotation.

Oh, and the group on the floor during that 28-11 stretch was basically Duke's "Blue Team." They play together in practice every day. And if they were facing Duquesne's subs, that should have only made the game easier for them

1.You did mention the 28-11 run so that is why I also mentioned it.
2. I agree Greg and Marty don't make a good combo, but there were other players on the floor and it seemed you blamed/singled out the run on just these two players.
3. I totally agree that Marty hasn't done anything, which would elevate him over another player in the rotation.
4. Blue Team schmu team. I know you like to talk about practice, but once these kids got on the court they didn't perform very well. If indeed they were up against their counterparts from the Dukes then they either aren't very good or they don't perform well as a unit, which in turn throws out your point that, "the game should have been easier for them."

All in all I'm extremely pleased with today's game and look forward to what I believe will be our first real test, against Perdue.

[Charles Wicker]

it all along: Marty has what it takes offensively to make us a more explosive team. Put him with Greg and he shines more: put him beside Nolan, which I advocated before the season began, and given enough court time and liberty, and he may shine even more. Point being; he's not really in long enough for us to see what he can or can't do. Yes, he did get decent minutes today, at games end, but I believe he can contribute more. That defense argument IMHO, is almost garbage. marty can put the ball on the floor; create, finish, and score!

We will need all of those skills in tougher competition. K knows this! Cmon. Most posters on this board who've played ball know this too. Without more offensive power; this team looks average.

[Jumbo]

4. Blue Team schmu team. I know you like to talk about practice, but once these kids got on the court they didn't perform very well. If indeed they were up against their counterparts from the Dukes then they either aren't very good or they don't perform well as a unit, which in turn throws out your point that, "the game should have been easier for them."

What's the point of practice, then? These guys are playing -- as a unit -- against Duke's starters. Every day. Do you think Duquesne's second unit is remotely close to the level of Duke's starters?

BTW, if you want to quote me, it's much easier to just hit the "quote" button at the bottom of a post and then reply that way.

[Jumbo]

it all along: Marty has what it takes offensively to make us a more explosive team. Put him with Greg and he shines more: put him beside Nolan, which I advocated before the season began, and given enough court time and liberty, and he may shine even more. Point being; he's not really in long enough for us to see what he can or can't do. Yes, he did get decent minutes today, at games end, but I believe he can contribute more. That defense argument IMHO, is almost garbage. marty can put the ball on the floor; create, finish, and score!

We will need all of those skills in tougher competition. K knows this! Cmon. Most posters on this board who've played ball know this too. Without more offensive power; this team looks average.

Yes, you keep saying this. And repeating yourself over and over doesn't make you correct. It just makes you persistent.

How can you refer to the "defense argument" as "garbage?" And here I was thinking that defense was half the game. Is Nolan Smith starting over Greg Paulus? Why do you think that's the case? (Hint: defense.) Does Duke have much trouble scoring, especially on the perimeter? (Hint: No.) Has Marty Pocius shown he is any better offensively than Smith, Scheyer, Henderson and Paulus against quality competition? (Hint: No.) And that doesn't even factor Elliot Williams into the mix.

Please tell us whose minutes Pocius should take, though. I'm all ears.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

While I loved Brian's steal and the resulting basket. I got verrrrrrrry nervous watching him dribble towards the basket. You could almost see that he wasn't sure what he was going to do once he got to the basket.

That was an extremely dangerous play and it could have ended in disaster for him.

Well, you're right. Zoub's had never done that before. Not even anything close to that. But now he has, and some day, he may again!

Nothing dangerous about it as we were up by 30+. I think he would have pulled up and waited for a guard to catch up to him if it were a close game. But it sure was fun watching him do it this day!

[detule]

Does anyone else notice that when Zoubek gets beat or makes a mistake himself (on offense or defense) he often looks and yells immediately at one of his teammates? I played soccer with numerous players that had that same bad habit of putting out blame to others in the heat of the moment after they made a mistake. I could be wrong in that he is just yelling out loud at himself but it looks to me like hes yelling at players on the team. Anyone else see this?

Absolutely. I actually noticed this as early as last season when he was getting very limited minutes. I really can't be certain about this, and other posters seem to disagree, but he always seems to be yelling at somebody _else_ - usually the person that did not rotate fast enough to help out. Funny thing is - usually I do agree with him - he is not a fast player and Duke's system where he needs to step out and defend on the perimeter does not favor his (lack of) speed. But Brian, if you are reading this - the cameras are picking up your reactions - and a greater man will say a few words to his fellow player in the huddle rather than loudly spew.

[Charles Wicker]

I would like to see him either replace Jon; or split minutes with him. This may even help Jons game some. Jon's playing like he's under pressure. He looks stiff, worried, frustrated and at times timid. You're right, Pocius does
provide a spark, but also gives us another player on the perimeter who can take it to the rim and finish strong. He is stronger that E-WIll, wiser, more maturer, and he understands the game better. He should right? He is practically a senior.

Elliot is learning; he hasn't earned the right to surpass Marty IMO. I could see if Elliot was a "one and doner," but it doesn't look like he has that potential yet. If Marty's defense is that bad; trust me, I'm honest enough to say he needs to sit.
As I posted before the season; based on Nolans offensive prowess in the summer league, there was no way he couldn't start. The question was more of; how long will he stay? yes, that's another thread.

[CameronCrazy'11]

I would like to see him either replace Jon; or split minutes with him. This may even help Jons game some. Jon's playing like he's under pressure. He looks stiff, worried, frustrated and at times timid. You're right, Pocius does
provide a spark, but also gives us another player on the perimeter who can take it to the rim and finish strong. He is stronger that E-WIll, wiser, more maturer, and he understands the game better. He should right? He is practically a senior.

Elliot is learning; he hasn't earned the right to surpass Marty IMO. I could see if Elliot was a "one and doner," but it doesn't look like he has that potential yet. If Marty's defense is that bad; trust me, I'm honest enough to say he needs to sit.
As I posted before the season; based on Nolans offensive prowess in the summer league, there was no way he couldn't start. The question was more of; how long will he stay? yes, that's another thread.


Marty should take Jon's minutes?? What?? I don't know what you're seeing in Pocius that I'm not.

[Jumbo]

I would like to see him either replace Jon; or split minutes with him. This may even help Jons game some. Jon's playing like he's under pressure. He looks stiff, worried, frustrated and at times timid. You're right, Pocius does
provide a spark, but also gives us another player on the perimeter who can take it to the rim and finish strong. He is stronger that E-WIll, wiser, more maturer, and he understands the game better. He should right? He is practically a senior.

Elliot is learning; he hasn't earned the right to surpass Marty IMO. I could see if Elliot was a "one and doner," but it doesn't look like he has that potential yet. If Marty's defense is that bad; trust me, I'm honest enough to say he needs to sit.
As I posted before the season; based on Nolans offensive prowess in the summer league, there was no way he couldn't start. The question was more of; how long will he stay? yes, that's another thread.

I'm speechless.

[Heelkiller1]

Since they really don't show hardly any Duke games in Iraq ,I didn't see the game ,but I am glad to see that Lance went off like that. I hope he can keep it up and bring some respect to our inside game.

[Bob Green]

I would like to see him either replace Jon; or split minutes with him.

Scheyer is our best wing defender and you want to replace him with Pocius who obviously struggles on defense. I emphatically disagree!

Duke's strategy is tough perimeter defense. Nolan Smith is providing the on ball defense and Jon Scheyer is the wing defender. Please explain how removing a strong defensive player (and very good offensive player) from the line-up improves the team.

Pocius is and will remain the eleventh man in the rotation.

[CameronCrazy'11]

I think some people are too caught up in the athleticism=basketball skill fallacy. There's a reason Duke recruits basketball players and not track stars. Yes, Pocius showed some very strong, athletic moves to the basket, but at the same time, his game was not very...polished.

[nyr484]

I don't understand how anyone who watches Duke basketball could possibly think that Pocius should play over Scheyer. Scheyer looks timid?? What are you watching? Pocius is a fine player who would get serious minutes at 90% of D1 schools, but I'm sorry, his defense is lacking. He just can't stick with ACC-caliber guards like Smith, Scheyer, or Henderson can. And his offense, which is nice, is not anywhere near as explosive as you are making it seem. Smith, Scheyer, Paulus, and Henderson are all better offensive players. At best, he's the #5 or #6 guard on this team. He definitely has a role, but it's limited. He kinda reminds me of Lee Melchionni. If Duke had only 7 or 8 scholarship players right now, Pocius would be playing a lot. Luckily, that's not the case.

As for the Zoubs screaming discussion, I was at MSG last week, pretty close to the court, and I witnessed Zoubs screaming in the face of the opponent he was guarding on several occasions. The guy yells as part of his defense. It's really pretty funny to see because he literally screams right in their face. I'm surprised the TV microphones don't pick it up because he yells pretty loud too. Is that what you guys are seeing? Because I haven't noticed him getting down on any teammates...

[davekay1971]

Marty over Scheyer...hold on...I gotta stop...seriously...Marty over Jon...that's too good...hooo. Awesome.

Seriously, though, I think we all like Marty as a player and want him to succeed. The kid clearly is trying, and he has potential as a scorer. He even made a couple decent defensive plays today to go along with his bad ones. But, even with Scheyer struggling with his shot, Jon's in a different world than Marty. Jon could not score a single point, and what he brings to this team with defense, ball handling, court vision, and passing would still have him on the court way before Marty.

Speaking of Elliot, who was mentioned above as someone Marty should play before, he still has his lapses, but the kid is developing nicely before our eyes.

[micah75]

As for the Zoubs screaming discussion, I was at MSG last week, pretty close to the court, and I witnessed Zoubs screaming in the face of the opponent he was guarding on several occasions. The guy yells as part of his defense. It's really pretty funny to see because he literally screams right in their face. I'm surprised the TV microphones don't pick it up because he yells pretty loud too. Is that what you guys are seeing? Because I haven't noticed him getting down on any teammates...

You may say that he's a screamer. But I say he's not the only one. McBobs was a screamer before him... come join us and the world will be as one.

Actually, I'm starting to think that his screaming may be relatively benign. At least I hope that is the case. That was interesting about screaming being part of his defense. Whatever works...

[Charles Wicker]

lest this argument rest for now, and will just watch and see.

[DukieInBrasil]

Replace Jon with Marty??? That´s just crazy talk.
I like Marty too, and it seems like he´d be really fun to watch if he played at a school that didn´t emphasize D. Duke does, we need strong defenders to make our offense work. Marty is not a strong defender. This year at least i believe Marty will get some minutes and have a really nice game from time to time, but leave the Pocius-deserves-to-take-Scheyer´s-minutes crazy talk somewhere else.
As a side note, has anyone noticed that LT has a better a/to than either Nolan or Jon??? Granted LT doesn´t handle the ball nearly as much as either of them, but still, what´s up JON??? It seems like he´s pressing or in some way not as comfortable as he was last year. Maybe it´s just a case of start-of-the-year blahs; which seems to also have infected Gerald (G had a slightly less than mediocre game).

[grossbus]

asked by others, not answered.

smith's back. what's the deal?

[greybeard]

I didn't see the game. I have liked very much what I have seen of Marty on the court previously. I would not be surprised if he "wins" a game or two for this team. I agree that the minutes for him are hard to find, but think that in a game or two they might find him.

I think, and have thought since the middle of last year, that Scheyer has a tad of a back issue. The poster who said he looks somewhat "stiff" at times--my take too. Especially manifests during his shot. This might be something Jon is unaware of. Might have come on gradually; one wouldn't notice until the stuckness is relieved and greater freedom felt. Would not take any grand type intervention. An Osteopath, a cranial sacral, trager, or feldenkrais person who knows what he or she is doing, some other skilled body worker, voilla.

[dw0827]

I noticed two instances in particular where BZ got beat on defense and he immediately started yelling . . . or at the very least, expressing his displeasure to whomever was willing to listen. Not sure what to make of it.

Was he mad at himself? Or was it directed at his teammates?

Was he mad because he didn't get the help he thought he should have gotten?

Anybody know? Is this indicative of an attitude problem that is going to irritate his teammates? Or do they just ignore it?

[BlueintheFace]

I would like to see him either replace Jon;

I always look forward to Charles Wicker posts because I know that usually they bring about ~15 responses. Definitely one of my favorite troublemakers on the board.

Jon Scheyer is arguably the most valuable player on the team and inarguably in the top two. I want you to type in to that keyboard that you think Marty's stats and defense would be better than Jon's if he got the playing time and push the submit reply button. Until you do that, I won't believe that this is your position, but rather that you are just trying to stir up trouble...

[BlueintheFace]

Was he mad at himself? Or was it directed at his teammates?


My guess from observation is that it is both. Sometime he really does yell at himself, sometimes he gets mad at whoever is on help-side/doubling, and sometimes after a bad play he is really just trying to get the team past it by yelling "come on!" He does this last one a lot, but unfortunately it looks like he is yelling at people, instead of constructive rah-rah yelling.

[miramar]

Foreverblowingbubbles-

I have seen Zoubek look disgusted after he makes a bad play, but I don't take it as him projecting this onto others (only getting on 'himself'). He just vocalizes his disgust with himself, I think.

Now, Sweat Gary Sweat Williams of Maryland is a weird dude when it comes to actually yelling AT his own players ON THE BENCH! Almost forever, I have noticed that when something goes wrong on the COURT, he immediately turns around and bellows at the dudes sitting down on the pine. It's almost like, over time, those guys are totally oblivious to Sweat's routine, because most just seem to blow it off. He really does remind me of what that character 'Rumpelstiltskin' would like like when he gets mad in the fairy tale.

dth.

It seems that Sweaty just needs to get things off his chest, and so he simply starts yelling at whatever players have the misfortune to be sitting near him at the time. The best thing about it is the "Why did I agree to play for this idiot?" look on their faces as he goes off on another incoherent rant (after the exasperated, overhead, double-arm wave at the refs, of course). They were better off with Lefty.

[jimsumner]

Nolan is having back spasms. Gets hit in the wrong place and it flares up.

[_Gary]

Of course it's insane to suggest Marty should take minutes from Jon. But I just want to go back to Jumbo's point about the plus/minus at the end of the game when Duquesne made their little run. I challenge you to go back and watch, let's say, the last 5 minutes of the game and tell me that Marty in particular was responsible for that run. If anything, he was the least responsible guy of the five on the court for that run. He played decent enough defense. No, he didn't set the world on fire. But it wasn't his fault that our bigs couldn't corral rebounds and kept giving up second shots. It wasn't his fault when he had a hand in the face of some little guard from the other team that made a sick shot. It wasn't his man that was blowing by him each and every possession that was scoring. I know the defense is team defense and we don't judge on individual basis. But in this case I'm just saying I think the plus/minus thing was really skewed and Marty was really a victim of his teammates for being at the bottom of the heap on a few of those combinations.

And I'll say this much. Based on what little I've seen (I admit I have not seen some of the games), I'd give Marty the nod over Elliot right now. I imagine that will change as the season progresses and Elliot learns the system better simply because he's a freaky good athlete. But yesterday Marty played a heck of a lot better game that Elliot. I'm not backing off that statement. If he's played like garbage in other games I haven't seen, so be it. But yesterday I felt he earned at least a little more time. Nothing drastic, but something more than mop up duty.

[captmojo]

Nothing about this game I found disappointing.


I would like to have heard a GTHC chant though. Did it happen? TV didn't play it, if it did occur.

[ncexnyc]

Well, you're right. Zoub's had never done that before. Not even anything close to that. But now he has, and some day, he may again!

Nothing dangerous about it as we were up by 30+. I think he would have pulled up and waited for a guard to catch up to him if it were a close game. But it sure was fun watching him do it this day!

My concern wasn't about the team getting the win, as I realize they were up a ton. I was voicing my concern that Brian, someone who has had issues with his feet in the past, would land awkwardly and reinjure himself on what would amount to an unnecessary and foolish play.

The kid is over 7 feet tall and weighs what 270/280? He isn't the most graceful person in the world and it was evident while watching him lumber towards the basket. While it was fun for the crowd and his teamates and I'm sure Brian himself, what would people be saying if he had landed in a heap under the basket?

[MChambers]

My concern wasn't about the team getting the win, as I realize they were up a ton. I was voicing my concern that Brian, someone who has had issues with his feet in the past, would land awkwardly and reinjure himself on what would amount to an unnecessary and foolish play.

The kid is over 7 feet tall and weighs what 270/280? He isn't the most graceful person in the world and it was evident while watching him lumber towards the basket. While it was fun for the crowd and his teamates and I'm sure Brian himself, what would people be saying if he had landed in a heap under the basket?

Zoubs just needs to play. And if he's going to play, he's got to play all out.
It was wonderful to see and I'm glad he went for it. Maybe later in the year he'll have a step on Hansbrough 10 feet from the hoop and he'll drive, get fouled, and lay it in. Yesterday's play will have contributed to that.

[jv001]

Jon is probably the 2nd best player(Kyle first) on this years team. He is one of our better ball handlers and defenders(especially off the ball). He has a great basketball IQ and comes up with lots of steals. Now I like Marty just as much as anyone, but I don't see these same qualities in Marty. However I do think Marty will help this team in many ways. Competition in practice, enthuiasim, instant offense at times and just being a part of our deep bench. But he is not near as good a player as Jon. I like this team a lot and am looking forward to the next few games to see where we are at this point of the season. Go Duke!

[greybeard]

1. Marty is an extremely good passer. 2. Marty is taller than Jon. 3. Jon seems to missing shots that you'd expect him to make, which I think has something to do with his back. 4. Marty might be a better scorer, at least at times, and K might look to ride him in early/mid second half if they need some points (Jon, often running the team, might not have that spark on any given day).

Zoubek, if he yelled at guys alot (which he don't), would not come close to making up for the amount of control that others exerted over his play, and not for the better, in the past. He who doesn't assert himself on this team will get lost. This team's BEST chance to go deep is if Z produces. His best chance of producing is if he is assertive. Goalies yell at their teammates. They're expected to. Zoubek is not McRob!

[Papa John]

Jon is probably the 2nd best player(Kyle first) on this years team.

I think you forgot someone... Gerald and Kyle are the two marquis players on our squad right now... Scheyer is great, but he's a notch below those two, IMO...

[Indoor66]

I think you forgot someone... Gerald and Kyle are the two marquis players on our squad right now... Scheyer is great, but he's a notch below those two, IMO...

Unfortunately Gerald is not hoding up his part of the bargain.

[CameronCrazy'11]

I think you forgot someone... Gerald and Kyle are the two marquis players on our squad right now... Scheyer is great, but he's a notch below those two, IMO...

Maybe based on potential/ projected NBA career, but based on production/ contributions this season, Scheyer has been as good as, if not better than, Henderson.

[throatybeard]

Gerald and Kyle are the two marquis players on our squad right now.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/52/Gilbert_du_Motier_Marquis_de_Lafayette.jpg/300px-Gilbert_du_Motier_Marquis_de_Lafayette.jpg

[Papa John]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/52/Gilbert_du_Motier_Marquis_de_Lafayette.jpg/300px-Gilbert_du_Motier_Marquis_de_Lafayette.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0c/Jean-Baptiste_Fran%C3%A7ois_Joseph_de_Sade_.jpg/180px-Jean-Baptiste_Fran%C3%A7ois_Joseph_de_Sade_.jpg

[dw0827]

Zoubek, if he yelled at guys alot (which he don't), would not come close to making up for the amount of control that others exerted over his play, and not for the better, in the past. He who doesn't assert himself on this team will get lost. This team's BEST chance to go deep is if Z produces. His best chance of producing is if he is assertive. Goalies yell at their teammates. They're expected to. Zoubek is not McRob!

I might agree with you were it not for the (seeming) fact that the only times he yells at guys is when he gets his butt burned on defense or he does something boneheaded. He isn't yelling from a position of strength or leadership . . . rather, he's yelling because he . . . well, the possibilities are endless and few of them good and healthy . . .

Zoubek is not a goalie. Zoubek is not a team leader. Yelling at his teammates when he gets burned is not about being assertive. I rather suspect its about frustration.

Of course, now I've gone and done it . . . baited greybeard . . . . here it comes . . . a dissertation on the psychodynamics of frustration in leaders through the ages.

[greybeard]

I might agree with you were it not for the (seeming) fact that the only times he yells at guys is when he gets his butt burned on defense or he does something boneheaded. He isn't yelling from a position of strength or leadership . . . rather, he's yelling because he . . . well, the possibilities are endless and few of them good and healthy . . .

Zoubek is not a goalie. Zoubek is not a team leader. Yelling at his teammates when he gets burned is not about being assertive. I rather suspect its about frustration.

Of course, now I've gone and done it . . . baited greybeard . . . . here it comes . . . a dissertation on the psychodynamics of frustration in leaders through the ages.

Zoubek played goalie on his high school and/or a club team. You take what you get. As an athlete, he was and probably remains a soccer goalie. They get to yell at people and get much respect.

Zoubek has been given nothing on this team. He could have had a much more productive first year but no one was willing to see it and throw it to him. Made him wait on the ball so they could be assured it was safe. For them, maybe; it killed his ability to score the ball. To me it was palpable.

What he gets on this team, he'll have to demand. That is not bad. If he screams, so what.

As I said, I didn't watch the game. I can not believe, however, that Zoubek is taking grief from some of you for, after making a steal and getting into the open court, he had some fun with it. His only problem is that he might be yelling at the wrong people. You guys were kidding, right? :rolleyes:

[ncexnyc]

As I said, I didn't watch the game. I can not believe, however, that Zoubek is taking grief from some of you for, after making a steal and getting into the open court, he had some fun with it. His only problem is that he might be yelling at the wrong people. You guys were kidding, right? :rolleyes:
Considering you're the one who is always going on and on about how the team needs to accept Brian and his game for what it is and not try to turn him into something he isn't, I'm surprised your ok with his poor immitation of Dominique Wilkins.

I suggest you find a video of that play and check it out for yourself and then get back to me and let me know if you actually believe Brian looked like he had any clue what he was going to do on that play.

The kid has made some very solid progress and all I'm saying is that I would hate to see him suffer a setback due to him trying to be something he isn't. A point you have stated numerous times in the past.

[juise]

...all I'm saying is that I would hate to see him suffer a setback due to him trying to be something he isn't.

This point sorta confuses me. I don't think he was trying to be anything. I think he was trying to play the kind of D that the coaches preach (deny passing lanes) and it led to a breakaway in which there were no defenders between he and the goal.

He did not then simply try to convert that opportunity. He converted that opportunity. He had the agility, ball handling skill, and finishing ability to make it happen. We may not be used to that sequence of events and it may not have been the prettiest breakaway, but Zoubs made it happen. Let's not take that away from him by saying that he was trying to be something that he's not. He did it.

Do or do not, there is no try.

[quickgtp]

Great game yesterday! I only caught the 2nd half, but even then I like what I saw!

Marty's D didn't look that bad yesterday from what I saw. I guess it looks good to me because I was comparing it to the way he used to play D.

IMO it is still a little early to know what the bench ordering/depth/rotation will be. It's obvious we know the starting rotation and that LT and GP will be the first off the bench. After that I could see situations where one player comes in and plays more than another bench player. Again, just my opinion. I don't feel like getting chastised like the time I disagreed that Plumlee was our starter!

[greybeard]

I suggest you find a video of that play and check it out for yourself and then get back to me and let me know if you actually believe Brian looked like he had any clue what he was going to do on that play.

This is bizzare beyond description. "They look good General, but can they fight?" The Dirty Dozen, Keiffer's Pops

[Carlos]

1. Marty is an extremely good passer. 2. Marty is taller than Jon. 3. Jon seems to missing shots that you'd expect him to make, which I think has something to do with his back. 4. Marty might be a better scorer, at least at times, and K might look to ride him in early/mid second half if they need some points (Jon, often running the team, might not have that spark on any given day).


Scheyer is also a very good passer.
Marty and Jon are listed at the same size.
Scheyer has struggled with his outside shot for most of this season but there's nothing to indicate it has anything to do with his back.

[greybeard]

Scheyer is also a very good passer.
Marty and Jon are listed at the same size.
Scheyer has struggled with his outside shot for most of this season but there's nothing to indicate it has anything to do with his back.


I think Jon is a terrific player who has forgotten more about the sport and how to play it than I have ever understood.

What I said was that I agree with another poster who said that Jon looks a tad stiff when he shoots. I first noticed that stiffness manifesting in his shot (not always) sometime mid season last year. I think it might be that one of his thorasic vertibrae is locked a tad out of whack, might be restricting how his shoulder blade (right) moves. I'm thinking that that is why he took (sometime last year) at times to going deeper into a knee bend (the last game I saw he had stopped that) than he would otherwise want on his jump shot especially from distance and than was his style earlier in his career at Duke. Just an educated guess.

By the way, no matter how they are listed in the program, Marty plays bigger. Marty might prove to be an instant-offense type guy off the bench when that is needed. You disagree. Terrific.

[-bdbd]

I do have one question - I don't know if its just me.
Does anyone else notice that when Zoubek gets beat or makes a mistake himself (on offense or defense) he often looks and yells immediately at one of his teammates? I played soccer with numerous players that had that same bad habit of putting out blame to others in the heat of the moment after they made a mistake. I could be wrong in that he is just yelling out loud at himself but it looks to me like hes yelling at players on the team. Anyone else see this?

I was at this game - my first in CIS in a while - and enjoyed seeing the team play so well. Yes, the score is deceiving, as we let up on the gas down the stretch, and could easily have won by more than 40.

As to 'Bubbles question: YES! I had noticed the same thing -- I think at least 3 times during Friday's game GZ would get beat or otherwise end up on the short end of a play (e.g. got blocked by a shorter player once) and would come up immediately shouting at a teammate. I too have played with players like that and rather than just arguing I would just ignore them, and frequently wouldn't pass it to them (or throw to their raised glove as a baseball player - I was an outfielder) just to signal my displeasure. Hopefully GZ grows out of it.

Otherwise, I didn't think GZ had a bad game. He and Lance represent a good change of pace for opponents. Lance was a monster, and could have scored more, but seemed to defer to his teammates when he re-entered late, and with the game out of hand. Nolan looks solid at PG. I thought Greg looked a little tender on that (cast?) wrist. Would like to see Gerald assert his tremendous talents more though. I was disappointed not to see much of the Frosh (Williams being somewhat the exception) until mop-up duty at the end. we WILL need the size of Plumlee and Cyz at some point later this season. I WAS encouraged that K did play many more bodies more minutes in an early-season game, to get them experience before we get to ACC play. I like this team. I really like their defense. It should be a fun year.

-BDBD

:D

[pfrduke]

I was at this game - my first in CIS in a while - and enjoyed seeing the team play so well. Yes, the score is deceiving, as we let up on the gas down the stretch, and could easily have won by more than 40.

As to 'Bubbles question: YES! I had noticed the same thing -- I think at least 3 times during Friday's game GZ would get beat or otherwise end up on the sort end of a play (got blocked by a shorter player once) and would come up immediately shouting at a teammate. I too have played with players like that and rather than just arguing I would just ignore them, and frequently wouldn't pass it to them (or throw to their raised glove as a baseball player - I was an outfielder) just to signal my displeasure. Hopefully GZ grows out of it.

Otherwise, I didn't think GZ had a bad game. Lance was a monster, and could have scored more, but seemed to defer to his teammates when he re-entered late, and with the game out of hand. Nolan looks solid at PG. I thought Greg looked a little tender on that (cast?) wrist. I was disappointed not to see much of the Frosh (Williams being somewhat the exception) until mop-up duty at the end. we WILL need the size of Plumlee and Cyz at some point later this season. I WAS encouraged that K did play many more bodies more minutes in an early-season game, to get them experience before we get to ACC play. I like this team. I really like their defense. It should be a fun year.

-BDBD

:D

Greg Koubek, Brian Zoubek.

[greybeard]

I too have played with players like that and rather than just arguing I would just ignore them, and frequently wouldn't pass it to them (or throw to their raised glove as a baseball player - I was an outfielder) just to signal my displeasure. Hopefully GZ grows out of it.

I don't know what precipitated the yelling--what occurred proximate to the yelling, who didn't do or did what, when, and under what instructions, or what Z actually said. Perhaps you are correct and Z is venting inappropriately. If so, my guess is that his teammates let it go, trusting that the coaches will handle it. So, I think, should we. This ain't the school yard and I doubt that self-help of the sort you describe would get a player anywhere except on the bench.

[killerleft]

My concern wasn't about the team getting the win, as I realize they were up a ton. I was voicing my concern that Brian, someone who has had issues with his feet in the past, would land awkwardly and reinjure himself on what would amount to an unnecessary and foolish play.

The kid is over 7 feet tall and weighs what 270/280? He isn't the most graceful person in the world and it was evident while watching him lumber towards the basket. While it was fun for the crowd and his teamates and I'm sure Brian himself, what would people be saying if he had landed in a heap under the basket?

Well, I'd hate to see Zoubs get hurt. But his steal and drive were just a part of his game and what he should do in that situation. He didn't look uncomfortable to me. Just dribbled down and made a lay-up.

What's not to love? You can't want Zoubs to improve on one hand, and then place restrictions on him to basically dribble and shoot. He does that in the lay-up line before the game, sir.

[Cavlaw]

Zoubek yells alot, I think mostly in a positive way. I did see one of the plays in which he got beat and yelled at Paulus. Zoubek yelled for help when his man cut past him just above the freethrow line, and Paulus didn't step into the lane to help - he just kept his back to the play.

Now, I'm not a great basketball mind and admit I don't have a complete grasp of Duke's defense. But, while Zoubek of course was beat man-to-man and that's his fault, I had the impression that if he yelled for help, Paulus should have stepped into the lane, where he could have kept the passing lane to his own man covered and denied a layup. Paulus may have still given up a short jumper due to the height differential, or been beat himself, but he didn't appear to do anything at all to help.

In that situation, I don't think a "come on man, I asked for help" from Zoubek is out of line. Zoubek's bigger mistake, I think, was in fouling the shooter. Right after the play the color man mentioned that Zoubek is 7th on the team in minutes play, but 2nd in fouls committed. I know inside players are going to tend to pick up more, but that caught my attention. When you're beat, you're beat, and sometimes you just have to let it go. I'm not sure we're going to want to trade 2 easy points for 2 free throws and a foul on him in a bigger game, particularly if the other team is intentionally trying to get our bigs in foul trouble.

[sagegrouse]

Zoubek yells alot, I think mostly in a positive way.

K wants to Duke players to talk "all the time." It is one of the biggest adjustments from HS to Duke.

So, what are the concerns on this Zoubek sub-thread? Is is that Zoubs talks all the time (which is good) but is too loud (which is bad?)? How can you even be heard in Cameron if you don't shout?

I tell you this sea-level living in DC is making me addled. I need to get back to 7,000 feet where I can think clearly.

sagegrouse

[Cavlaw]

K wants to Duke players to talk "all the time." It is one of the biggest adjustments from HS to Duke.

So, what are the concerns on this Zoubek sub-thread? Is is that Zoubs talks all the time (which is good) but is too loud (which is bad?)? How can you even be heard in Cameron if you don't shout?

I tell you this sea-level living in DC is making me addled. I need to get back to 7,000 feet where I can think clearly.

sagegrouse
I don't have any problems with him being loud at all, that was the point of noting that for the most part it appears he's being positive.

[dw0827]

The "yelling" I'm talking about comes after the play is dead . . . not the communication that occurs, or should occur, during play.

And my question about it was whether it (his "yelling" at the other players) is divisive . . . or no big deal. I don't know how the other players react to it. I've more or less come to the completely uninformed conclusion (as are most of my conclusions) that he's yelling out of frustration that a) he got beat or did something wrong and b) he may not have gotten the weak-side help he needed given that he did get beat. I also suspect that the other guys ignore it . . .

In other words, no big deal . . . who cares . . . next play.

And about the layup. Sure, he's been hurt and sure, he could get hurt again . . . but there was a play to be made and he made it. Good for BZ. It wasn't real pretty but we can't all be high fliers like Henderson. A layup I made in the driveway this weekend had my 14 year old son rolling on the ground laughing. But hey, count two, rack'em.

[AtlDuke72]

This is bizzare beyond description. "They look good General, but can they fight?" The Dirty Dozen, Keiffer's Pops

I completely agree. Zoubek made a steal in the open court, dribbled half the court and made an excellent move to score. What was he supposed to do? Stop[ and wait for the other team? It is obvious that no matter what he does some people on this Board will criticize him. Some people should just admit they are wrong occasionsally. The screaming he did occurred when his man beat him at the top of the key and his teammate under the basket did nothing to help out. If you don't believe me, look at the tape. When others do the same thing they are lauded for being great leaders (JJ yelling at McClure for example). Bizarre is the right description.