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OZZIE4DUKE
11-27-2008, 10:49 AM
Back in August, I suggested here and to David Cutcliffe during "Meet the Blue Devils day" that when we beat James Madison for Coach's first win at Duke that we tear down the goal posts. Well, Coach didn't like that idea and asked that we not do it then, save it for "a big game that means something". In the interview posted here, in the 10th minute or so, http://www.wralsportsfan.com/duke/video/4031261/ he is asked about the goal posts and Coach refers to the JMU game again. Now while he doesn't advocate tearing down the posts for fear of someone getting hurt, and he doesn't want to get fired for suggesting it (WE DON'T EITHER!) he does say this is a big game (DUH!) and says let's see what happens spontaneously after we win. Personally, I favor a repeat of this scene!

Kimist
11-27-2008, 08:35 PM
I'm not even sure how that works any more.

1 - The rules (and security personnel) are fairly strict about keeping non-players off of the playing field.

2 - The current goal posts actually "kneel" and collapse very quickly.

3 - While beating unc is momentous, is it worth the goal posts??

4 - What per cent of the Duke students will even be on campus due to the Thanksgiving break?

k

CameronBornAndBred
11-27-2008, 09:00 PM
3 - While beating unc is momentous, is it worth the goal posts??
Oh Hell Yes!

PDDuke85
11-27-2008, 09:12 PM
With the youth of the university elsewhere Saturday, I'm not certain the good old alumni should be the ones bringing the posts down. Too many hips will snap. Besides, I believe the posts should only come down to celebrate a meaningful victory. I place the 'Holes just below JMU.

DukePA
11-27-2008, 09:51 PM
With the youth of the university elsewhere Saturday, I'm not certain the good old alumni should be the ones bringing the posts down. Too many hips will snap. Besides, I believe the posts should only come down to celebrate a meaningful victory. I place the 'Holes just below JMU.

old alumni, hmm. . . I resemble that remark. For the record, I will happily help tear down the goal posts when the opportunity arises Saturday!

OZZIE4DUKE
11-27-2008, 09:51 PM
I'm not even sure how that works any more.

1 - The rules (and security personnel) are fairly strict about keeping non-players off of the playing field.

2 - The current goal posts actually "kneel" and collapse very quickly.

3 - While beating unc is momentous, is it worth the goal posts??

4 - What per cent of the Duke students will even be on campus due to the Thanksgiving break?

k

Rules, shmools. We don't need no stinkin' rules!

Coach Cut addressed this during his interview linked. He thinks it is alright for fans to come onto the field to held celebrate a victory (yellow shirts be damned).

Yes, the new style posts kneel - they have a pivot joint at the bottom. How they detach I have no idea.

Beating carolina is worth a goal post. Too bad it is not for us to become bowl eligible and to keep them from being so. At least we can keep them out of the Peach Bowl.

You're right. There may not be enough students around to carry them up to the main quad. It takes a 8 to 10 to carry the dang thing, often working in shifts as they are heavy. Upon further review, we'll have plenty of students and fans to carry them up the stadium, through the parking lot, onto the bonfire quad and to the J B Duke statue as pictured.

As long as we get to ring the Victory Bell and keep it in Durham Saturday night (and thereafter), I'll be satisfied. And quite happy.

Devil in the Blue Dress
11-27-2008, 10:23 PM
The Victory Bell belongs in Durham. Too many years it's been ringing in Chapel Hill. When we get it back, please don't store it away, out of sight until next November! During the basketball season the Victory Bell belongs in Cameron..... the new score board has nothing on OUR Victory Bell!

VaDukie
11-27-2008, 10:30 PM
There's a decent contingent of students within driving distance coming back for the game, and with no tailgate beforehand they'll all be coherent enough to take down the goalposts afterwards if the opportunity presents itself...

blazindw
11-28-2008, 12:16 AM
My friend and I are driving down Saturday for the game. If we win, we are rushing the field, then we are heading back to our car to drive back to DC to celebrate my 26th birthday at the stroke of midnight. Let's get that Victory Bell!

PumpkinFunk
11-28-2008, 07:59 AM
Don't worry about a lack of students. There will be enough people for whatever it takes - enough people live close enough to come back and show up for the Carolina game.

We need to worry about the football.

DukeUsul
11-28-2008, 09:07 AM
Eh. Win like you've done it before. .... I know, I know we haven't done it in a while. But still.

Lavabe
11-28-2008, 09:43 AM
26 years ago, the students tore down goal posts after beating UNC. This was, of course, the Red Wilson era. RED MEANS GO!!:D

I am unsure whether there are Duke history students over there who have looked into this phenomenon. I would imagine that a few of them might be interested in examining this part of our history.;)

killerleft
11-28-2008, 05:40 PM
I fully expect to see the goalposts come down tomorrow evening. Go Devils... let's make it a I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. for Butch and ring that Bell!

throatybeard
11-29-2008, 03:08 PM
Absolute Blitzkrieg drive by Duke to begin the game. Thank God Thad Lewis is back.

freedevil
11-29-2008, 04:07 PM
God I hate UNC.

Bob Green
11-29-2008, 05:08 PM
That 55 yard FG by Joe Surgan right before halftime is a big score. Duke is trailing 21-17 but how many times have teams that scored right before half come out with momentum on their side in the second half? That is a rhetorical question. GO DUKE!

CameronBlue
11-29-2008, 05:12 PM
God I hate UNC.

It's okay. He hates em too.

grossbus
11-29-2008, 05:27 PM
we have to do better on those swing passes to the backs. they are getting 10"+ yards every time they run that play.


how short is our secondary? seems like everybody goes over them.

FireOgilvie
11-29-2008, 06:48 PM
Crap. Sad end to a good season.

DevilCastDownfromDurham
11-29-2008, 06:57 PM
This game was a microcosm of the season. Great effort, solid play, but we're still learning how to win. Penalties, inability to punch it in, dropped passes, all the little things that we're still learning. Season ended out about as I expected it. Here's to building on this and being better next season.

Thank you to all the seniors, especially Mike Tauiliili, who gave us everything we could ask for today. Whatever to voters say, he's an All-American to me. Thank you seniors, thank you Cut, and let's go Duke!

grossbus
11-29-2008, 06:58 PM
well, a better season. i am not sure it would be characterized as "good" by anyone who hasn't been through the last several years.

cut is going to have to recruit his posterior off for us to be "good." we gots O line and DB needs like crazy.

VaDukie
11-29-2008, 07:47 PM
This game was a microcosm of the season. Great effort, solid play, but we're still learning how to win. Penalties, inability to punch it in, dropped passes, all the little things that we're still learning. Season ended out about as I expected it. Here's to building on this and being better next season.

Thank you to all the seniors, especially Mike Tauiliili, who gave us everything we could ask for today. Whatever to voters say, he's an All-American to me. Thank you seniors, thank you Cut, and let's go Duke!

Ain't that the truth. MT should be a 1st team All-American, but if he doesn't at least make 2nd team it's an outright travesty. I worry our defense - any by extension our team - will take a serious step back next season without him around.

Thanks for four great years Mike, I wish we could have put more talent around you. Best of luck in the NFL!

sandinmyshoes
11-29-2008, 08:02 PM
Coach Cut did a great job of stealing us a touchdown on the first drive. The no huddle was a perfect foil for an athletic but relatively inexperienced defense. After that the game settled into a typical Duke/UNC rumble.

Neither program has had much to brag about the last five years or so, but I think both are on the way up, and I'm thinking that in the future we'll be treated to some intense games like this one with much more on the line than just the VB.

ScottDuke04
11-29-2008, 08:28 PM
Gotta say, the stands were kind of rough today! Stadium officials and police removed one (presumably inebriated) UNC fan down at the bottom of my section early in the game...later removed several others nearby who were being very loud and obnoxious, and touching people around them. A section or two away there was a fist fight.. Lots of personal heckling from UNC fans all around. Walking out several unc "fans" were screaming stuff about Zoubek, Coach K, etc.

Unbelievably obnoxious. I sat next to a couple state fans during the NCSU game when the stadium was almost as red as it was carolina blue today, and they were nice and classy. I can't personally remember so many obnoxious fans.

Also saw a guy with a 9F pin :-)

Acymetric
11-29-2008, 08:50 PM
Tough loss, but I'm proud of this team for turning things around this season.

Mike T. is a monster, his maturation as a football player and a student is really incredible. After that performance he has GOT to be one of the top choices for ACC DPOY...I'm still not sure if he's a 1st team AA, but if he doesn't make 2nd team its a crime. Too bad it wasn't him that returned that fumble for a TD, would have heled his case.

I think one of the biggest things we'll see improve in the next few years, besides talent, is discipline. I really think we'll see the dumb penalties and dropped passes start to disappear. Hate to see the season end this way for the seniors, but I can't wait for next year!

Oh, does anyone have a summary of some postgame comments from coach Cut? I missed the radio show, but am curious what he said.

DukeUsul
11-29-2008, 09:16 PM
Tough crowd today. Nice turnout by the good blue, but a few too many Heels fans. Most of them near me were cheering well for their team. Not too many complete ***hats.

I love the effort by this team. We'll surely miss the seniors, but Cut's got some great guys coming in. The best thing about this season was the return of excitement and optimism.... Not to mention 4 wins.

Acymetric
11-29-2008, 09:21 PM
Tough crowd today. Nice turnout by the good blue, but a few too many Heels fans. Most of them near me were cheering well for their team. Not too many complete ***hats.

I love the effort by this team. We'll surely miss the seniors, but Cut's got some great guys coming in. The best thing about this season was the return of excitement and optimism.... Not to mention 4 wins.

Yeah. There wasn't as much ugly blue as I thought there might be, but we really struggled to get any cheer going. The "We Are Duke" chant at the beginning was the loudest it'd ever been, but after that cheering was pretty sporadic and half-hearted. In particular, there was never a good loud GTHCGTH. Small pockets would chant it every once in a while, but it never caught on through the whole stadium. That was disappointing, I thought. I also thought it kind of sucked that the marching band wasn't there for this game, but oh well.

Devil in the Blue Dress
11-29-2008, 09:51 PM
Yeah. There wasn't as much ugly blue as I thought there might be, but we really struggled to get any cheer going. The "We Are Duke" chant at the beginning was the loudest it'd ever been, but after that cheering was pretty sporadic and half-hearted. In particular, there was never a good loud GTHCGTH. Small pockets would chant it every once in a while, but it never caught on through the whole stadium. That was disappointing, I thought. I also thought it kind of sucked that the marching band wasn't there for this game, but oh well.
When we say we're building a program, the statement encompasses more than the football team alone. Changes are gradually appearing in terms of more fans at the games and their increased participation to support the team. The band is rebuilding, too. Back in the "good old days," to be in the marching band meant a commitment to be there to play at games like this one scheduled during a holiday break. It's been years since the cheerleaders had many football cheers. Our football cheers are a work in progress, too! Let's continue to support all aspects of this rebuilding process while continuing to raise our expectations for all concerned.

Yes, it was disappointing to lose tonight, but our team never gave up. The day is coming when the win will be ours...... and the Victory Bell, too!

Please give some consideration to attending the football banquet this year. The last one was held two years ago at the Washington Duke and filled the ballrooms. (The Football Summit was that weekend.) It's time to hold it in a bigger venue.

FOREVER DUKE!!!!!

OZZIE4DUKE
11-29-2008, 09:53 PM
Gotta say, the stands were kind of rough today! Stadium officials and police removed one (presumably inebriated) UNC fan down at the bottom of my section early in the game...later removed several others nearby who were being very loud and obnoxious, and touching people around them. A section or two away there was a fist fight..

Yes they did, and we told them exactly where to go as they were being escorted out! GTHc!

I'm very proud of the team. No quit in them, and we almost pulled it out in the last minute. But as Coach Cut said in his post game interview, losing is no longer accepted at Duke, and the work on 2009 starts tomorrow at noon. Next year, we're going bowling, no doubt about it. So it is written, so it shall be.

DukieInKansas
11-29-2008, 10:43 PM
Yeah. There wasn't as much ugly blue as I thought there might be, but we really struggled to get any cheer going. The "We Are Duke" chant at the beginning was the loudest it'd ever been, but after that cheering was pretty sporadic and half-hearted. In particular, there was never a good loud GTHCGTH. Small pockets would chant it every once in a while, but it never caught on through the whole stadium. That was disappointing, I thought. I also thought it kind of sucked that the marching band wasn't there for this game, but oh well.

They must have had the mikes in the right places - I could hear 9F quite clearly on TV and cheered right along with the stadium from my sofa in Kansas.

Thanks to the team and coaching staff for a wonderful improvement this season. I'm looking forward to next season.

hudlow
11-30-2008, 09:25 AM
A very enjoyable season and better ones ahead to look forward to.

It's time to get down to business and start pulling for whoever Carolina has to play in their bowl.

hud

davekay1971
11-30-2008, 09:31 AM
In particular, there was never a good loud GTHCGTH.

Oh, at one point I heard a good GTHCGTH..ES cheer loud and clear across my TV. It made me smile proudly.

Kudos to our team for a good season - 4 wins, 3 other very close games, and they played with passion all year. I'm excited for next year and years beyond. It's safe to say that Duke has the right man as coach.

Congrats also to NCSU, both for laying the wood to Carolina last week, and for making a sweet run to bowl eligibility. Anybody not excited to see Russell Wilson for the next 3 years?

Devilsfan
11-30-2008, 10:56 AM
We've made our first major step thanks to Coach Cut and his staff. Now they need to teach us or instill in us how to FINISH. A 4-8 season becomes 8-4 or at the worst 7-5 if we know how to FINISH. Things look bright at Duke Football. I don't expect anything less than a Bowl appearance in 09.
Thanks Coach!!!!! And Thanks of course thanks to your Staff!!!!

Devil in the Blue Dress
11-30-2008, 12:01 PM
Just read about Michael Tauiliili's ankle injury during the Virginia Tech game. Wow! What effort! Couldn't practice during the week, but turned in a career high performance of 20 tackles. I wish him the best for the future, but will greatly miss him when the 2009 season kicks off.

arnie
11-30-2008, 12:06 PM
well, a better season. i am not sure it would be characterized as "good" by anyone who hasn't been through the last several years.

cut is going to have to recruit his posterior off for us to be "good." we gots O line and DB needs like crazy.

It's also time for the administration to come through on the WW upgrades. No excuses should be accepted if the restrooms and concession stands are not significantly upgraded before the Richmond? game. This stuff (and much more) is really needed if we are going to be competitive in the ACC. Otherwise, it's going to be tough to avoid the 0-12, 1-11 syndrome.

We shall see if White can make it happen.

PDDuke85
11-30-2008, 12:18 PM
What a great effort by the team. With year 1 of the Cutcliffe era in the books, I feel a very strong foundation was placed. Looking forward to seeing what transpires as he continues to recruit.

Far too many 'holes in/around section 25. They were there because they could be. I dream of a day when the 'holes are only in 2-3 sections at the most. To that I ask; why must this game be played on Thanksgiving weekend? The Duke students are scattered all over the world. The UNC faithful are coming from Fuqua-Varina for gods sake. How about the 1st weekend in December or heaven forbid, earlier in the season. A big game against, well, them, ought to include the students!

Lastly, as we watch the Duke football program morph into something special, please let us hope the Wallace Wade restrooms and concession stands can be transformed into something other than what they are. Let's not accept anything less than first class facilities for a first class program.

With that, will anxiously await the announcement of next years schedule in order to ensure time off for those Saturday's.

Let's Go Duke!

buddy
11-30-2008, 12:49 PM
if it is really going to be a rivalry game. It is ridiculous to play your "rival" at a time when the students are on break. And I don't mean 50 miles away. This game used to be played on the Saturday before Thanksgiving. It should be played then every year (at least when it is at Duke). I know that television dollars rule the football world, but it will be hard to make this game the high point of our season if it continues to be played when the students are gone.

jimsumner
11-30-2008, 12:52 PM
"To that I ask; why must this game be played on Thanksgiving weekend? The Duke students are scattered all over the world. The UNC faithful are coming from Fuqua-Varina for gods sake. How about the 1st weekend in December or heaven forbid, earlier in the season."

First weekend in December is out. ACC title game that weekend. Is earlier in the season a valid choice? A lot of tradition would be tossed in the waste basket. Duke played its first game in August this year. Can't see starting any earlier.

If colleges are going to play 12 games, with two weeks off, then the regular season is going to have to end around Thanksgiving. Everybody else played this weekend. It's bad for Duke because of the nature of the Duke student base. But if Duke doesn't play UNC that weekend, they'll be playing someone else.

I'm not sure I see an easy solution. Note that Spring Break impacts basketball on many college campuses on a regular basis. Sometimes life just gets in the way.

blazindw
11-30-2008, 12:54 PM
It's also time for the administration to come through on the WW upgrades. No excuses should be accepted if the restrooms and concession stands are not significantly upgraded before the Richmond? game. This stuff (and much more) is really needed if we are going to be competitive in the ACC. Otherwise, it's going to be tough to avoid the 0-12, 1-11 syndrome.

We shall see if White can make it happen.

While I do agree that improvements to WW are necessary, I don't think that inadequate bathrooms and concession stands are the reason we went 4-8. One has nothing to do with the other, in my opinion. Improvements to WW help us sell the school to recruits. Better bathrooms don't translate into points on the field.

Keep in mind that we're a missed field goal and a last second INT away from being 6-6. We are close. We play at Kansas next year, but host Army and Richmond. We have Wake and V. Tech at home, games we almost won on the road. I think if we can consistently move the football when we need to and make the plays in the clutch, we all will be planning Christmas vacations around our bowl game this time next year.

Devil in the Blue Dress
11-30-2008, 02:09 PM
While I do agree that improvements to WW are necessary, I don't think that inadequate bathrooms and concession stands are the reason we went 4-8. One has nothing to do with the other, in my opinion. Improvements to WW help us sell the school to recruits. Better bathrooms don't translate into points on the field.

Keep in mind that we're a missed field goal and a last second INT away from being 6-6. We are close. We play at Kansas next year, but host Army and Richmond. We have Wake and V. Tech at home, games we almost won on the road. I think if we can consistently move the football when we need to and make the plays in the clutch, we all will be planning Christmas vacations around our bowl game this time next year.
I agree! And fancy rented rest rooms for women don't translate into an increased fan base. Improvements and upgrades will come about because the football attendance has increased enough to merit doing so. I rank facilities which directly improve what supports the team's preparation before upgrades for the fans. I'd rather see a fine indoor practice facility come before the stadium renovations. Having a top notch indoor practice facility will have more impact on team performance than any rest room or seating upgrades.

In the meantime, thank you, Coach Cutcliffe, for coming to Duke and leading us out of the darkness!

Speaking of upgrades and plans for the future, season's ticket's will be on sale some time after the first of the year. Signing Day will be soon after. As Coach has said, football is a year round sport!

SharkD
11-30-2008, 02:15 PM
Gotta say, the stands were kind of rough today! Stadium officials and police removed one (presumably inebriated) UNC fan down at the bottom of my section early in the game...later removed several others nearby who were being very loud and obnoxious, and touching people around them.

He and his friend were so drunk before the game, that they couldn't comprehend that seats 7 and 9 were before 17 and 19 -- I had to explain it to them three times. As the game progressed he became increasingly belligerent, swinging his fists around and nearly punched and older couple in Row R, while verbally berating a group of teenage Duke fans seated a few rows up.

I'd like to thank whomever notified security.


While I do agree that improvements to WW are necessary, I don't think that inadequate bathrooms and concession stands are the reason we went 4-8.

Durham's City/County Planning Commission is the reason we have insufficient permanent, smelly temporary bathrooms and inadequate concession facilities -- they initially approved Duke's improvement plans, to be complete by this season, then changed their minds, demanding that the university place sidewalks on both sides of Frank Bassett Drive (a private road), necessitating the removal of some huge trees. The University said no, Durham C/CPC revoked approval.

I blame the C/CPC for the inadequate water/refreshment facilities that led to a number of people fainting from heatstroke during the Navy game (including an 84 year old OB-GYN and Duke Alum from Greensboro, whom my wife had to assist) and the enormous lines for inadequate restroom facilities that my wife, who is now 32 weeks pregnant had to endure. (At halftime, it took 25+ minutes of standing in line to reach the ladies' room behind sections 31/32, and there was still a line when we returned to our seats, well into the 3rd quarter.)

formerdukeathlete
11-30-2008, 02:51 PM
........ Improvements and upgrades will come about because the football attendance has increased enough to merit doing so. I rank facilities which directly improve what supports the team's preparation before upgrades for the fans. I'd rather see a fine indoor practice facility come before the stadium renovations. Having a top notch indoor practice facility will have more impact on team performance than any rest room or seating upgrades.
......

It is a chicken and the egg thing....

I am not sure White agrees with you about the priorities.

Wade is woefully inadequate in a number of respects...amenities in terms of bathrooms, sure, but also as a football venue it is inadequate in two respects. The track, putting fans so far off the sidelines...and capacity is not at the critical level at which the Football Program can be a revenue add, rather than a rev. drag on the Athletic Department budget.

You want home and away game with Alabama? And the home game played in Durham? Have to be able to seat more than 33k people.

Attendance drags because of the track, imo..Anyone watch the USC Notre Dame game who remembers watching a game in the Coliseum before the track was removed? Its night and day. How about Ohio State....fans rave about the change there.

I can say in my opinion with absolutely certainty in my mind the following:

1. fixation on the stop gap fix the bathrooms and concessions and stop and wait from there is the wrong approach. White is looking at a comprehensive redo, removing the track and planning on bathrooms, concessions, club seats in an intergrated design. It was a blessing that Durham held up the stop gap.

2. Wade is the worst stadium in Division 1-a. Its an embarassment and hurts recruiting.

3. Fixing the stadium situation is more important than the indoor practice facility.

Re my third point I actually think K. White believes fixing Wade is more important than an indoor practice facility, that this will have more near term and longer term benefits for the program. It is also possible that an indoor facility may be contiguous to Wade and therefore that it will be part of the overall stadium redo footprint. The problem is raising the money, in the post stock market crash environment.

arnie
11-30-2008, 03:18 PM
I agree! And fancy rented rest rooms for women don't translate into an increased fan base. Improvements and upgrades will come about because the football attendance has increased enough to merit doing so. I rank facilities which directly improve what supports the team's preparation before upgrades for the fans. I'd rather see a fine indoor practice facility come before the stadium renovations. Having a top notch indoor practice facility will have more impact on team performance than any rest room or seating upgrades.

In the meantime, thank you, Coach Cutcliffe, for coming to Duke and leading us out of the darkness!

Speaking of upgrades and plans for the future, season's ticket's will be on sale some time after the first of the year. Signing Day will be soon after. As Coach has said, football is a year round sport!

Wow - fancy rented rest rooms for the women???

I 'm advocating rest rooms and concession stands that would be acceptable on a high school level. The experience at WW has to improve along with team if we are going to be respectable in the future. Pretty easy to recruit against Duke when a kid's dad has to walk through a cess pool and wait in line for 30-45 minutes for a drink.

DU82
11-30-2008, 03:18 PM
Durham's City/County Planning Commission is the reason we have insufficient permanent, smelly temporary bathrooms and inadequate concession facilities -- they initially approved Duke's improvement plans, to be complete by this season, then changed their minds, demanding that the university place sidewalks on both sides of Frank Bassett Drive (a private road), necessitating the removal of some huge trees. The University said no, Durham C/CPC revoked approval.

I blame the C/CPC for the inadequate water/refreshment facilities that led to a number of people fainting from heatstroke during the Navy game (including an 84 year old OB-GYN and Duke Alum from Greensboro, whom my wife had to assist) and the enormous lines for inadequate restroom facilities that my wife, who is now 32 weeks pregnant had to endure. (At halftime, it took 25+ minutes of standing in line to reach the ladies' room behind sections 31/32, and there was still a line when we returned to our seats, well into the 3rd quarter.)

I disagree with your assessment that the blame for not building the restroom/concession facilities rests with the city/county planning department. As much, if not more, belongs to the university administration for first OKing an agreement with the city/county for a change in zoning to help facilitate construction on campus, and then ignoring that agreement (and the requirements set by that agreement) when submitting plans. One of hte requirements is providing adequate pedestrian access to all facilities when being constructed. That includes the football field (with the improvements being planned.) That also includes providing proper pedestrian facilities along all roads, public or private.

In a previous thread back in May or so, I outlined a very simple solution to the pedestrian path/sidewalk along Frank Bassett Drive: Move the fence on the south side back ten feet and put the sidewalk behind the trees that VP Trask said had to be removed. It's not easy to park along Bassett, or on the grass field next to it, and try to get in and out with the pedestrians in the street. This is something that better crowd control could improve (why do we pay all those people in yellow, and not plan on using them for both ingress and egress. In particular, the intersection of Bassett and Science Drive, where many paths cross, could use some actual traffic control, rather than a free-for-all.)

As far as I understand, the development review committee never approved the plans for the restrooms/concession stands. If you have different information about an official approval from the City, I would like to hear it.

Regarding the concession stands, I do not believe it's the facilities that cause the long lines, it's the inefficient methods of the volunteer groups that staff them. Of course, that would also include indifferent paid staff at other arenas, such as MSG. I do not mean that the volunteers lack effort, but more organization would help.) Newer facilities will certainly help, but inefficient staff and inadequate supplies (how do you run out of water at that previous game, and why do you not stock enough hot beverages yesterday?) will prevent significant improvement.

Regarding other facilities, I have the plans for the indoor practice field and halftime house on my table right now (disclaimer, I do not work for the city/county, however I am a member of a citizen's advisory commission that, as part of our role, reviews development plans. I did not review the plans for the restrooms.) The indoor practice field will be located on the last parking lot on Wannamaker, and the halftime house (for the visiting team) to the side of the (to be extended) outdoor practice field closest to WW. It appears the current field house will remain until the new one is finished, and then the field will be extended to full length. Much of the woods between the football fields and the Hart house will be removed to make room and connect the existing fields to the new indoor facility, as will part of the second outdoor field (the one closest to 751).

There is a note that indicates that a sidewalk along DU Road will be constructed before occupancy of either the indoor facility or the concession/restroom facilities, whichever comes first.

arnie
11-30-2008, 03:28 PM
Thanks for the summary DU82. Do you have any feel for when some of the concepts you addressed will actually take place? Also, for most of us on this board, we know that buying a bottle of water during the game has been an ordeal. Do you think anyone in the Adminstration understands this? It seems like a win-win to be able to sell thousands of bottles of water at $3 a bottle.

Devil in the Blue Dress
11-30-2008, 03:48 PM
It is a chicken and the egg thing....

I am not sure White agrees with you about the priorities.

Wade is woefully inadequate in a number of respects...amenities in terms of bathrooms, sure, but also as a football venue it is inadequate in two respects. The track, putting fans so far off the sidelines...and capacity is not at the critical level at which the Football Program can be a revenue add, rather than a rev. drag on the Athletic Department budget.

You want home and away game with Alabama? And the home game played in Durham? Have to be able to seat more than 33k people.

Attendance drags because of the track, imo..Anyone watch the USC Notre Dame game who remembers watching a game in the Coliseum before the track was removed? Its night and day. How about Ohio State....fans rave about the change there.

I can say in my opinion with absolutely certainty in my mind the following:

1. fixation on the stop gap fix the bathrooms and concessions and stop and wait from there is the wrong approach. White is looking at a comprehensive redo, removing the track and planning on bathrooms, concessions, club seats in an intergrated design. It was a blessing that Durham held up the stop gap.

2. Wade is the worst stadium in Division 1-a. Its an embarassment and hurts recruiting.

3. Fixing the stadium situation is more important than the indoor practice facility.

Re my third point I actually think K. White believes fixing Wade is more important than an indoor practice facility, that this will have more near term and longer term benefits for the program. It is also possible that an indoor facility may be contiguous to Wade and therefore that it will be part of the overall stadium redo footprint. The problem is raising the money, in the post stock market crash environment.

I don't pretend to be an expert. I've thoughtfully read each of your postings on this subject and am familiar with the points you've made. I'm only a double Dukie and loyal fan who was influenced by what Coach Cutlciffe has said is his top priority.

DU82
11-30-2008, 04:04 PM
Thanks for the summary DU82. Do you have any feel for when some of the concepts you addressed will actually take place? Also, for most of us on this board, we know that buying a bottle of water during the game has been an ordeal. Do you think anyone in the Adminstration understands this? It seems like a win-win to be able to sell thousands of bottles of water at $3 a bottle.

Regarding the practice facility and halftime house, the visitor's facility is listed as phase I, with the indoor facility phase II. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that the ACC was pushing for the visitor's house to be built asap. If I had to guess, I'd say the halftime house would be started soon, and the indoor facility perhaps next summer - guessing based on construction times and that the indoor facility would take out a parking lot, something that would possibly take time to re-assign those spots. I previously reviewed a site plan for a parking lot on DU Road across from the Alumni house which might serve as a replacement.

I have nothing right now to base this on, but I would expect the restrooms and concessions to be built this year (well, before the next season starts.) I believe they are part of the future plans for the stadium, and can be built in stages. And, it would appear the new halftime house and indoor practice facility will take down more trees than the sidewalk on Bassett. :-)

ScottDuke04
11-30-2008, 05:40 PM
Since someone mentioned the band -- is it just me or is the band substantially smaller this year than in previous years? Seems like the pep band has only like 1-2 sousaphones and ~4 trombones? (plenty of clareints!) I think in many ways the band SOUNDS better than it has in some recent years, but it also seems to be shrinking. Just curious. (/me was in the band 1 year only ~10 years ago)

Also, more rock lobster!

Devil in the Blue Dress
11-30-2008, 05:49 PM
Since someone mentioned the band -- is it just me or is the band substantially smaller this year than in previous years? Seems like the pep band has only like 1-2 sousaphones and ~4 trombones? (plenty of clareints!) I think in many ways the band SOUNDS better than it has in some recent years, but it also seems to be shrinking. Just curious. (/me was in the band 1 year only ~10 years ago)

Also, more rock lobster!

The band at the football game yesterday was an alumni band. The regular season marching band has gradually increased in numbers in the past couple of years. Their entry to the stadium, awesome. More members still appreciated and needed!

Being in the band is a commitment much like being on an athletic team, except that Duke offers no scholarships to recruit outstanding musicians or to entice students to commit the time required to prepare.

As for favorite songs for the band to play, my choice is obvious: "Devil with the Blue Dress On"!

ScottDuke04
11-30-2008, 05:58 PM
I also know the topic of the track has been beaten to absolute death, but...

This year, while attendance was tremendously better than in the past few years, the stadium never looked full. Maybe one or two games looked as close as I've seen it, but never full. For multiple games--notably UNC and NCSU--their fans outnumbered our own (definitely more UNC fans, maybe 50/50 for state was my guess). This is pretty much the usual, but anyway...

If you add more seating at this point, isn't that problem just going to be exacerbated? The ticket office has been pretty much giving away tickets all year long, bringing in tons of groups, etc--what's going to happen with significantly increased seating? Not to mention parking and traffic direction, which is already a nightmare...

Is Wallace Wade an embarrassment that hurts recruiting? I have no idea. I would personally think the on the field performance, and the fact that it's Duke (as both a positive and negative) would be a far bigger factor. IMO, fix up the facilities (bathrooms), figure out some better parking plans,
and go from there. Duke's already putting a lot of money into the new football program and staff, and i think we should see what happens. We had a good first year, let's keep it going before revamping half the campus.

ScottDuke04
11-30-2008, 06:03 PM
The band at the football game yesterday was an alumni band. The regular season marching band has gradually increased in numbers in the past couple of years. Their entry to the stadium, awesome. More members still appreciated and needed!

I know the band that day and the Duquesne band was alumni, but I've thought it was smaller all year. Is it really bigger? I would have bet that this year and last were smaller than before that?


Being in the band is a commitment much like being on an athletic team, except that Duke offers no scholarships to recruit outstanding musicians or to entice students to commit the time required to prepare.

Very true. I personally didn't enjoy DUMB, but appreciate their hard work!

shadowfax336
11-30-2008, 06:04 PM
Since someone mentioned the band -- is it just me or is the band substantially smaller this year than in previous years? Seems like the pep band has only like 1-2 sousaphones and ~4 trombones? (plenty of clareints!) I think in many ways the band SOUNDS better than it has in some recent years, but it also seems to be shrinking. Just curious. (/me was in the band 1 year only ~10 years ago)

Also, more rock lobster!
Only 1 sousaphone this year, but band size in general has been good.

OZZIE4DUKE
11-30-2008, 06:18 PM
It's also time for the administration to come through on the WW upgrades. No excuses should be accepted if the restrooms and concession stands are not significantly upgraded before the Richmond? game.

We shall see if White can make it happen.

This placard was up in the southwest side near the temporary bathroom trailer. There was a faint blueprint under the picture posted below, but I knew my cell camera wouldn't pick it up so I ignored it. Note the completion date is August 2009.

PumpkinFunk
11-30-2008, 08:19 PM
Since someone mentioned the band -- is it just me or is the band substantially smaller this year than in previous years? Seems like the pep band has only like 1-2 sousaphones and ~4 trombones? (plenty of clareints!) I think in many ways the band SOUNDS better than it has in some recent years, but it also seems to be shrinking. Just curious. (/me was in the band 1 year only ~10 years ago)

Also, more rock lobster!

Like someone said, yesterday was different because it was a break game, so we have a lot of alumni who play instead of students. We do only have 1 sousaphone, but we have a lot of trombones and trumpets. Our numbers are a little bit higher than last year (and as far as I know, have been increasing over time).

OZZIE4DUKE
11-30-2008, 08:33 PM
We do only have 1 sousaphone

Yes, but you had Buster H (Class of 1976) playing sousaphone yesterday! And he'll be playing at the Meadowlands on Dec. 20th if you want to catch his act again!

DukeUsul
11-30-2008, 09:38 PM
The band is larger this year than it was a few years ago. But it's still a smaller band than it was when I was in the band (95-99). We peaked at over 120 people. Granted, losing some of the dead weight has been a good thing.

formerdukeathlete
12-01-2008, 10:02 AM
.....
If you add more seating at this point, isn't that problem just going to be exacerbated? The ticket office has been pretty much giving away tickets all year long, bringing in tons of groups, etc--what's going to happen with significantly increased seating? Not to mention parking and traffic direction, which is already a nightmare...Is Wallace Wade an embarrassment that hurts recruiting? I have no idea. I would personally think the on the field performance, and the fact that it's Duke (as both a positive and negative) would be a far bigger factor. IMO, fix up the facilities (bathrooms), figure out some better parking plans,
and go from there. Duke's already putting a lot of money into the new football program and staff, and i think we should see what happens. We had a good first year, let's keep it going before revamping half the campus.

Other schools (in addition to USC and Ohio State) have struggled with what to do with older football stadiums designed like Wade with a horseshoe surrounding a track. Temple had a 34k stadium, almost exactly like Wade, and bulldozed the thing around 1970. Pitt had a bowl with a track around the field, Pitt stadium, and struggled with the idea of keeping it or partnering with the Steelers. While attendance at Heinz field has not been the best, talk to anyone who has attended the always sold out Pitt - West Virginia game and they rave at the improvement of Heinz over sitting back and away at Pitt Stadium. (Pitt Stadium was demolished and on the site Pitt built their new b-ball arena - which some credit with the emergence of Pitt as top womens and mens programs). Even with the track removed, Wade is less than ideal because the rake, pitch of the stands is a bit too gentle. Contrast this with Wake, VT (a larger version of Wake) where the pitch is steep to allow fans to sit right on top of the field. USC averages 72k a game in the LA Coliseum which seats over 90k. Not full, yet fans rave (I personally have watched games before and after the track was removed) at the difference. USC stands are also a bit more gentle of a pitch which again is less than ideal. However, the seats added in 1993 when removing the track are always full, and, as I recall, at a time when USC Football did not dominate the PAc Ten, attendance improved year on year after the track was removed. (looking for a cite to document this).

The issue of WW is a strategic one. At this point, are we going to have a Football Program or not? To remain in the ACC, we have to. The present value of ACC football-related revenue sharing for the next 20 years, imo most likely exceeds the aggegate costs being considered to upgrade the Football stadium and facilities. Go beyond there. The Iron Dukes fund about 240 athletic scholarships a year. Contributions are partly a function of interest in the Football program. De-emphasize Football - get dropped from the ACC and become, say a b-ball member of the Big East, and how many of these scholarships in the form of financial aid will need to be funded by the general university funds?

On the plus, removing the track and digging down is one of the lesser expensive ways to add good seats.

davekay1971
12-01-2008, 10:58 AM
IMHO, I think renovating/expanding the stadium is necessary to the growth of the football program. Undoubtedly an expansion at this point will initially leave more empty seats or seats occupied by the opposition. But there are plenty of fans out there who like Duke and will come if the team is competitive, and we can fill a larger stadium. Right now our facilities (stadium and practice) are not ACC-caliber. Cutcliffe is bringing in a higher level of recruit and we will be competitive. Having better facilities and a larger crowd will help bring in better recruits, and propogate a cycle of success. If we're going to be committed to a program that can realistically strive for bowl eligibility year to year, improving our facilities is a part of that equation.