Duke schedule vs. Carolina schedule

[FerryFor50]

Here is the Duke men's bball schedule:

Mon, Nov 10 Presbyterian W 80-49
Tue, Nov 11 Georgia Southern W 97-54
Sun, Nov 16 Rhode Island W 82-79
Thu, Nov 20 Southern Ill.
Fri, Nov 21 Michigan W 71-56
Sun, Nov 23 Montana W 78-58
Fri, Nov 28 Duquesne
Tue, Dec 2 at (10) Purdue
Sat, Dec 6 at Michigan
Wed, Dec 17 N.C. Asheville
Sat, Dec 20 at (16) Xavier
Wed, Dec 31 Loyola (MD)
Sun, Jan 4 Virginia Tech
Wed, Jan 7 (24) Davidson
Sat, Jan 10 at Florida St.
Wed, Jan 14 at Georgia Tech
Sat, Jan 17 (21) Georgetown
Tue, Jan 20 N.C. State 8:00 pm
Sat, Jan 24 Maryland 12:00 pm
Wed, Jan 28 at (19) Wake Forest
Sun, Feb 1 Virginia 2:00 pm
Wed, Feb 4 at Clemson 9:00 pm
Sat, Feb 7 (22) Miami (FL) 1:30 pm
Wed, Feb 11 (1) North Carolina
Sun, Feb 15 at Boston Coll.
Thu, Feb 19 at St. John's
Sun, Feb 22 (19) Wake Forest
Wed, Feb 25 at Maryland
Sat, Feb 28 at Virginia Tech
Tue, Mar 3 Florida St.
Sun, Mar 8 at (1) North Carolina

Here is UNC's:

Sat, Nov 15 Pennsylvania W 86-71
Tue, Nov 18 Kentucky W 77-58
Fri, Nov 21 at UCSB W 84-67
Mon, Nov 24 at Chaminade
Tue, Nov 25 Oregon
Sun, Nov 30 N.C. Asheville
Wed, Dec 3 at (5) Michigan St.
Sat, Dec 13 Oral Roberts
Thu, Dec 18 Evansville
Sat, Dec 20 at Valparaiso
Sun, Dec 28 Rutgers
Wed, Dec 31 at Nevada
Sun, Jan 4 Boston Coll.
Wed, Jan 7 Charleston
Sun, Jan 11 at (19) Wake Forest
Thu, Jan 15 at Virginia
Sat, Jan 17 (22) Miami (FL)
Wed, Jan 21 Clemson
Wed, Jan 28 at Florida St.
Sat, Jan 31 at N.C. State
Tue, Feb 3 Maryland
Sat, Feb 7 Virginia
Wed, Feb 11 at (7) Duke
Sun, Feb 15 at (22) Miami (FL)
Wed, Feb 18 N.C. State
Sat, Feb 21 at Maryland
Sat, Feb 28 Georgia Tech
Wed, Mar 4 at Virginia Tech
Sun, Mar 8 (7) Duke

Duke currently has 4 out of conference opponents in the top 25, with St John's at 4-1 with a solid start and potentially a sleeper team.

Carolina, on the other hand, has 1 team scheduled that is in the top 25, and only another one possible due to early season tournies (Duke had a potential one as well in UCLA before they lost to Michigan).

What I want to know is, why does the media fall in love with teams that have tons of talent, but refuse to schedule any tough non-conference games? This is not anything new for UNC, as they regularly schedule pushovers out of conference, teams just good enough to boost the Tarholes RPI due to their otherwise dominance in their small conferences (see: UNCA, Evansville, Charleston), but teams that are normally very little match for the perennial "pre-season National Champs."

Duke used to be guilty of the same years ago if I remember correctly, but Coach K decided that his teams needed to be battle tested and started getting mid-season meat in his scheduling.

I guess this is more of a rhetorical vent than anything, but just wanted to see if anyone else was on this mind train. :)

[RainingThrees]

All my Carolina friends are so full of their team. Whenever I talk to them about the schedules they say it doesn't matter because they would beat any team they play. I really like how K has scheduled tough teams and that will help us during tourney play.

[sandinmyshoes]

You didn't list a probable match up of UNC vs. either Texas or Notre Dame in Maui.

I think also that the problems with the program at UK probably hurt UNC's scheduling this year. That should have been a tougher test.

That said, I do believe that we have the stronger schedule this year. In years past I have to admit to feeling like there was a lean toward UNC having stronger schedules mainly because they seemed more willing to go into hostile territory while we played a lot of neutral site games, or at Cameron.

I love the @ Xavier game this year. We could lose that game, but I think it will serve to make the team better than whipping Montana in Cameron. And we could easily win it, which would make it an even better teaching experience.

[gw67]

Regardless of what they do tonight, the Heels will play either Texas(7) or Notre Dame(8) tomorrow. I like the Devils OOC schedule and there will some interesting games to watch. Whether scheduling top teams makes any difference to the real good teams like Duke or UNC come the NCAAT is open for discussion. I would take a couple of losses early in the season if we are playing well late in the ACC portion of the schedule.

gw67

[Cormac]

You didn't list a probable match up of UNC vs. either Texas or Notre Dame in Maui.

I think also that the problems with the program at UK probably hurt UNC's scheduling this year. That should have been a tougher test.

That said, I do believe that we have the stronger schedule this year. In years past I have to admit to feeling like there was a lean toward UNC having stronger schedules mainly because they seemed more willing to go into hostile territory while we played a lot of neutral site games, or at Cameron.

I love the @ Xavier game this year. We could lose that game, but I think it will serve to make the team better than whipping Montana in Cameron. And we could easily win it, which would make it an even better teaching experience.


The Xavier game is a neutral court game in NJ, not at the Cintas Center. It would have been a HUGE deal for X to get a home game with Duke. Cintas is a very, very tough place to play too. But I believe this game is to replace Duke's annual Madison Square game, since they already played there in the tourney they just won. Just fyi. Still will be a tough, tough game, as X could be in the top 15 by then.

[FerryFor50]

You didn't list a probable match up of UNC vs. either Texas or Notre Dame in Maui.

I think also that the problems with the program at UK probably hurt UNC's scheduling this year. That should have been a tougher test.

That said, I do believe that we have the stronger schedule this year. In years past I have to admit to feeling like there was a lean toward UNC having stronger schedules mainly because they seemed more willing to go into hostile territory while we played a lot of neutral site games, or at Cameron.

I love the @ Xavier game this year. We could lose that game, but I think it will serve to make the team better than whipping Montana in Cameron. And we could easily win it, which would make it an even better teaching experience.

I did list that with my "only another one possible due to early season tournies (Duke had a potential one as well in UCLA before they lost to Michigan)" statement. :)

But yea, I agree... I like that Duke is taking on bigger and better challengers.

[Wander]

Yes, Duke's schedule is better than UNC's schedule, and it bothers me when people say "I wish we would schedule a Kentucky like UNC does," because Xavier - and Purdue, and Davidson, and Georgetown - are just better than Kentucky, period.

But let's not stretch it. St. John's does not have a solid start and they're not a sleeper team. They're awful, and you really shouldn't even mention them if you want to argue that Duke's non conference schedule is good.

And UNCA, Charleston, and Evansville are dominant in their conferences? Since when? Besides, Duke still schedules these same types of teams - Montana, Rhode Island, and.... UNCA.

[davekay1971]

I hate the unearned crowing by the Carolina crowd this time of year, too. They escaped the Gauchos and killed Chamalamadingdong...awesome.

But fortunately this is college basketball, where we all get to sort it out in the ACC and NCAA tournaments. UNC is the defending ACC champion based on the ACC tournament last year, and we've got to take that away from them. Neither of us have had much to brag about in the NCAA's the last 2 years - us by losing early, them by losing later in much more spectacular fashion.

So don't sweat the early season hype or relative schedule strengths. Hopefully we'll be helped by tougher competition out of conference, and hopefully UNC will suffer at least four losses this year: 3 to Duke (1 giving us the ACC tournament title) and 1 in the NCAAs, the earlier the better. GTHC.

[Kedsy]

The Xavier game is a neutral court game in NJ, not at the Cintas Center. It would have been a HUGE deal for X to get a home game with Duke. Cintas is a very, very tough place to play too. But I believe this game is to replace Duke's annual Madison Square game, since they already played there in the tourney they just won. Just fyi. Still will be a tough, tough game, as X could be in the top 15 by then.

Duke still has a Madison Square game this year, against St. John's in February. The Xavier game is the almost-annual Meadowlands "home away from home" game.

[FerryFor50]

Yes, Duke's schedule is better than UNC's schedule, and it bothers me when people say "I wish we would schedule a Kentucky like UNC does," because Xavier - and Purdue, and Davidson, and Georgetown - are just better than Kentucky, period.

But let's not stretch it. St. John's does not have a solid start and they're not a sleeper team. They're awful, and you really shouldn't even mention them if you want to argue that Duke's non conference schedule is good.

And UNCA, Charleston, and Evansville are dominant in their conferences? Since when? Besides, Duke still schedules these same types of teams - Montana, Rhode Island, and.... UNCA.

UNCA won their conference last season.

Charleston and Evansville are regularly in the mix for the automatic NCAA bids.

[rasputin]

UNCA won their conference last season.

Charleston and Evansville are regularly in the mix for the automatic NCAA bids.

Nope. Evansville hasn't been a player in the MVC for a long time. Their recent conference records:
2008 3-15, tied for last
2007 6-12, tied for 7th
2006 5-13, tied for 7th
2005 5-13, tied for last

[FerryFor50]

Nope. Evansville hasn't been a player in the MVC for a long time. Their recent conference records:
2008 3-15, tied for last
2007 6-12, tied for 7th
2006 5-13, tied for 7th
2005 5-13, tied for last

Then I am mistaken and likely am thinking of another mid-major. :)

[Faison1]

Duke used to be guilty of the same years ago if I remember correctly, but Coach K decided that his teams needed to be battle tested and started getting mid-season meat in his scheduling.

I guess this is more of a rhetorical vent than anything, but just wanted to see if anyone else was on this mind train. :)

IIRC a lot has been said and written about the subject on these boards and other various media outlets.

In the last couple of years the argument was made that UNC had a vastly tougher schedule than ours. That may or may not be true. Be that as it may, it is not fair to accuse UNC for having a weak schedule on the basis of one year's outcome.

I am not defending UNC by any means.....9f, 9f!!!

But our schedule in the 2000's hasn't been exactly one to brag about either. In K's early years ('80's and 90's), you could make an argument that Duke always scheduled tougher vs el Deano, but that does not hold true any longer. It might have to do with revenue, the difficulty in scheduling home and homes, and other major conference players being unwilling to play in CIS.

Who knows? But this year our schedule looks good, should draw good TV ratings, and will ultimately pay off with dividends of more TV viewer demand, which is good for all of us.

[Olympic Fan]

In the last couple of years the argument was made that UNC had a vastly tougher schedule than ours. That may or may not be true. Be that as it may, it is not fair to accuse UNC for having a weak schedule on the basis of one year's outcome.

But our schedule in the 2000's hasn't been exactly one to brag about either.

Sigh ... this is evidence that the big lie is still an effective technique. Shout your propaganda long enough and people are going to believe it.

Actual RPI strength of schedule rankings for the last 10 years:

2008 -- Duke 8 (nationally), UNC 3
2007 -- Duke 3, UNC 4
2006 -- Duke 1, UNC 10
2005 -- Duke 4, UNC 18
2004 -- Duke 4, UNC 5
2003 -- Duke 32, UNC 10
2002 -- Duke 26, UNC 5
2001 -- Duke 6, UNC 14
2000 -- Duke 23, UNC 13
1999 -- Duke 3, UNC 2

I know UNC fans make the case that their schedule has been vastly better than Duke's over the last decade ... but that doesn't make it true. The evidence is that both teams have played consistently strong schedules. UNC's was slightly better in five seasons, Duke's has been better in five seasons -- including four of the last five.

As for Duke having nothing to brag about -- I think playing one of the nation's top six toughest schedules in six of 10 years (with no schedule outside the top 10 percent of Division 1 schedules) is pretty impressive.

At the moment, Duke's 2008-09 schedule looks tougher. Based on today's coaches poll, Duke has the following games lined up:

1. UNC
1. at UNC
9. at Purdue
16. Georgetown
20. Xavier (n)
21. Miami
24. at Wake
24. Wake
25, Davidson

Plus three games against "other teams receiving votes" -- Clemson, Michigan (n) and at Michigan.

By contrast to Duke's nine games against ranked opponents, UNC has seven:

5. Duke
5. at Duke
6. Michigan State (in Ford Field)
either No. 7 Notre Dame or No. 8 Texas (in Maui)
21. at Miami
21. Miami
24. at Wake

The only game against a team receiving votes is a single home game with Clemson.

Obviously, those poll things will change ... but just as obviously, both teams have impressive overall schedules.

And the next time a Carolina fans brings up the scheduling "big lie" tell him to stuff it.

[davidson]

UNCA won their conference last season.

Charleston and Evansville are regularly in the mix for the automatic NCAA bids.

Charleston in the mix? Maybe so, but they have only won the conference championship one time (1999) - and haven't beaten Davidson at all since 2003. In terms of dominating the conference, they aren't even in the conversation.

I believe Winthrop won the Big South last year, not UNCA. They tied in the regular season, and Winthrop beat UNCA in the tournament for the championship.

[Faison1]

The only point of my post was to disagree that we consistently have tougher schedules than UNC based upon this season's non-conference opponents. Historically, we have had tougher schedules than UNC. However, basing it on only this year is not fair.

BUT, I think most people on this board would agree that our non-conference foes of late have not been the same as those in K's early years (or so it seems). The non-conference battle-royale's have been missimg, and a lot has to do with traditional powers we play not achieving their normal status (Michigan, St Johns, Kentucky, a few others).

Bending the RPI is a talent our schedule makers definitely have. In general, it means avoiding teams with RPI's lower than 150-200. So, basing our schedule strength on RPI is like saying the BCS computer system has no flaws.

[Biscuit]

UNC fan here. Don't worry, I'm a rational, relatively well-behaved one, I swear. I wanted to post in response to this thread, which I think mischaracterizes the "complaint" of my fellow Heels re: Duke's early season schedule.

The vast majority the whining I've heard about Duke's early scheduling revolves around the fact that Duke doesn't- or at least didn't- play road games prior to January. The notion was/is that Coach K was not preparing his team for the hostile crowds they would face later in the season by playing most games in Cameron, with a couple visits to the Meadowlands or MSG mixed in (I think we can all agree that Duke backers make up the vast majority of the crowd against almost any opponent in a tri-state area game).

Now, as to why my fellow Heels care, I have no idea. If they're right, then Duke will pay the price "when it matters." If they're wrong, they are just making themselves look foolish. So it's a dumb thing for them to try to make a point about. Nevertheless, I thought I'd clarify.

[Travi_K]

I agree with Biscuit on this one, as a Duke fan, his sentiment is the one I hear from all the Carolina fans that talk so much junk. However if it wasn't that it would be something else we would hear about.

[Biscuit]

Thanks. In defense of my brethren, the argument about Duke's lack of road games is a valid one to make in the context of a conversation about poll rankings in November, December or January. Right or wrong, UNC fans can and do argue that Duke is ranked too highly in the early season. Those arguments are part of what makes college basketball fun. But it shouldn't be a reason for people to accuse Duke, or Coach K, of being "wimps" or some such thing. This ain't college football. It will all bear out in February, March and April.

For the same reason, I've never understood why Vitale and others whine about "cupcake" scheduling. The coaches by and large are trying to prepare their teams for the more important games later in the season, not pad their records. They just have different ideas on the best way to get their teams ready for prime time. As I said, it all comes out in the end.

[davekay1971]

Thanks. In defense of my brethren, the argument about Duke's lack of road games is a valid one to make in the context of a conversation about poll rankings in November, December or January. Right or wrong, UNC fans can and do argue that Duke is ranked too highly in the early season. Those arguments are part of what makes college basketball fun. But it shouldn't be a reason for people to accuse Duke, or Coach K, of being "wimps" or some such thing. This ain't college football. It will all bear out in February, March and April.

For the same reason, I've never understood why Vitale and others whine about "cupcake" scheduling. The coaches by and large are trying to prepare their teams for the more important games later in the season, not pad their records. They just have different ideas on the best way to get their teams ready for prime time. As I said, it all comes out in the end.

Agreed on all counts. I think it's funny for Carolina fans to pick apart Duke's early season schedule (glass houses, and all that), but that's just part of the rivalry. Duke's tendency to play neutral sites is actually a smart recruiting move by K - the annual Jersey game, for example, allows Duke to play in a recruit rich market on national TV, usually against a high-profile opponent.

Most rational fans on both sides, I would think, would agree that poll position in Nov-Jan means nothing in college hoops. By and large, the NCAA tournament committee does a good job taking non-conference schedule strength into both tournament selection and seeding. If a coach schedules cupcakes, they'll have to deal with the possible consequences of the team being unprepared against higher quality foes, and the possibility of being left out or seeded lower because they're non-conference schedule strength is weak. Though it varies year to year, both Duke and UNC tend to have relatively strong strengths of schedule.

[Travi_K]

Their is no denying the fact that Duke does not play many true non conference road games. We can also not deny that both programs have proven to be very successful in March regardless of how they schedule the regular season. I would like to see Duke play more non conference road games but I am not sure how much it really matters. Duke gets 8 road games durning the year and have had great success on the road regardless of early season scheduling. Like you say, success all pans out in Feb and March which ironically are all on neutral sites which is why I think we see Duke scheduling this way.

[sandinmyshoes]

Most of the non Duke fans I interact with seem sure that Coach K avoids hostile arenas to protect his win/loss record.

I understand that they're trying to imply that Coach K cares too much about his legacy or whatever, but I'm not sure why any coach wouldn't want to protect the win/loss record. It may seem weasely or whatever to other fans, but if you play a tough but careful OOC schedule you will climb in the rankings. Then when you lose a few conference games you have some room to drop but still remain solid in the rankings. And the rankings matter come NCAA seeding time.

That said, I have always wanted us to have at least one or maybe even two OOC games in hostile arenas. I think it serves to toughen up a team win or lose. And that could help us when the ACC games come along.

[Biscuit]

Their is no denying the fact that Duke does not play many true non conference road games. We can also not deny that both programs have proven to be very successful in March regardless of how they schedule the regular season. I would like to see Duke play more non conference road games but I am not sure how much it really matters. Duke gets 8 road games durning the year and have had great success on the road regardless of early season scheduling. Like you say, success all pans out in Feb and March which ironically are all on neutral sites which is why I think we see Duke scheduling this way.

One interesting, and unique, thing about Duke, though: through no fault of their own, they really can't replicate what they deal with at neutral tournament sites in the non-conference schedule. When they play at places like MSG or even the United Center, they get the vast majority of the fan support because their fans and alums tend to live in or near large cities. But the vibe is completely different for them at the ACC tournament and the NCAA tournament, where Duke is almost always Public Enemy #1 in the eyes of the fans of the other teams playing at the site.

Not really much they can do about that- I don't think scheduling an extra road game or two in the early season would matter. But it's an interesting point.

[Kimist]

... But the vibe is completely different for them at the ACC tournament and the NCAA tournament, where Duke is almost always Public Enemy #1 in the eyes of the fans of the other teams playing at the site....

Especially when those "neutral" sites are in the state of NC, a la unc's trip through the NCAA tourney last year.

Aside from the general "Duke hatred" and/or media bias that already exists, the games in Charlotte were almost Dean Dome West in nature.

As for the general topic of this thread, I'm certain that the almightly dollar does come into play when considering any home/home encounters versus a "challenging" game at a legitimately neutral, and very LARGE, site. Personally I would love to see every ACC team play in Cameron every year, but then I realize that is truly now a pipe dream!

k

[PURDUE7]

There is no doubt DUKE plays the tougher schedule.

It must be rough to be UNC and have McDonalds All Americans on the bench behind AP ALL AMERCIANS.

They were pretty impressive in Hawaii.

As a PURDUE fan the last thing I want to see is an NCAA draw with UNC in it. I would assume that Tyler would get every call and foul out half the team.

[jv001]

There is no doubt DUKE plays the tougher schedule.

It must be rough to be UNC and have McDonalds All Americans on the bench behind AP ALL AMERCIANS.

They were pretty impressive in Hawaii.

As a PURDUE fan the last thing I want to see is an NCAA draw with UNC in it. I would assume that Tyler would get every call and foul out half the team.

And you forgot to mention Hanstravel getting a break when it comes to traveling almost every time he touches the ball on the inside. Along with their easy schedule this adds up to a few more wins.

[ClosetHurleyFan]

JVOO1: Do you seriously believe that Hansborough travels almost every time he touches the ball? Seriously.....

This constant I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.ing about him on this board has grown so tiresome and I see that sentiment emanating from Carolina fans like me as well as Duke fans. He works incredibly hard, plays with amazing intensity, has earned every d**n bit of success he has garnered and then some. Other coaches openly acknowledge it after watching him play. And all I see while he has been on the bench has been a guy rooting this teammates even though he is burning up inside to play ball again every game. If he gets a few calls here and there, so be it, he has earned the benefit of the doubt, the same way that someone like Shane Battier had.

Word is that he has worked incessantly to develop an outside shot. He shot 150 three pointers a day this summer and his manager charted every single shot and determined he hit 67 percent of them. Pure work ethic, nothing more. Decides he wants to improve and goes out and gets the job done, everytime.

Hansborough is a once in a lifetime kid in a lot of ways, I wish sometimes certain people on this board could just give it a rest. And believe me, I would say the same flippin thing if it concerned Carolina fans looking for dumb*** ways to pick Shane Battier apart......

[dukelifer]

JVOO1: Do you seriously believe that Hansborough travels almost every time he touches the ball? Seriously.....

This constant I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.ing about him on this board has grown so tiresome and I see that sentiment emanating from Carolina fans like me as well as Duke fans. He works incredibly hard, plays with amazing intensity, has earned every d**n bit of success he has garnered and then some. Other coaches openly acknowledge it after watching him play. And all I see while he has been on the bench has been a guy rooting this teammates even though he is burning up inside to play ball again every game. If he gets a few calls here and there, so be it, he has earned the benefit of the doubt, the same way that someone like Shane Battier had.

Word is that he has worked incessantly to develop an outside shot. He shot 150 three pointers a day this summer and his manager charted every single shot and determined he hit 67 percent of them. Pure work ethic, nothing more. Decides he wants to improve and goes out and gets the job done, everytime.

Hansborough is a once in a lifetime kid in a lot of ways, I wish sometimes certain people on this board could just give it a rest. And believe me, I would say the same flippin thing if it concerned Carolina fans looking for dumb*** ways to pick Shane Battier apart......

As a longtime Duke fan, I have come to respect the talents of Mr. Hansbrough. He is not the most enjoyable player to watch- but he is amazingly effective. He has a knack for getting the ball in the basket and that, my friends, is the goal of the game. If you got style points, he would be on the low side for sure. But you don't. He either gets a bucket or gets fouled with almost every possession. He has an ability to make room for himself without fouling because he is very strong and more than that- fearless when it comes to throwing his body around. My sense is that people do not respect his talents because of his bull in the china shop play. It is less "ballet" and more "bull-et". But make no mistake- this is a well honed talent. It is annoying to everyone watching but his own fans and team. If he can translate to the next level- and I am pretty sure he can- he could have a long career in the NBA- assuming his body holds up.

[jv001]

JVOO1: Do you seriously believe that Hansborough travels almost every time he touches the ball? Seriously.....

Hansborough is a once in a lifetime kid in a lot of ways, I wish sometimes certain people on this board could just give it a rest. And believe me, I would say the same flippin thing if it concerned Carolina fans looking for dumb*** ways to pick Shane Battier apart......

Well maybe 1 out of 3 times as he takes it to the basket. I'm not saying he's not a fine young man and he's not the one making or not making the calls. It's the refs. For you to mention Shane Battier you must believe he got the calls also. Well that's your opinion about Shane and it's my opinion about Tyler. It's just a game and nothing to get upset about. Go Duke!

[JDev]

I do not think the Hansbrough-Battier comparison is a particularly good one. There are some obvious similarities: four-year guys at neighbor schools with National Player of the Year trophies. The argument here seems to be about how Hans plays, what he does or doesn't do/get away with, etc. Battier was a completely different player and he played a completely different way. You could pick any one game from Shane's junior or senior year and in that one game he would probably have more threes taken and made, more blocks, and more charges taken that Hans's enitire career (I'm aware of the oversimplification). Hans is all effort and a bull-in-a-china shop kind of player, not a "skill-guy." Plus, Shane was wonderfully articulate, and people talked about a potential political futue while he was at Duke. Hans might be the most boring interview in ACC history. Very monotone and robot-like, with canned responses.
And don't take all that the wrong way, he is a hell of a player and any team would love to have him.

[juise]

I do not think the Hansbrough-Battier comparison is a particularly good one. ... You could pick any one game from Shane's junior or senior year and in that one game he would probably have more threes taken and made, more blocks, and more charges taken that Hans's enitire career (I'm aware of the oversimplification).

I understand that you made many points attempting to separate Shane from Hans. I agree with some of them. However, I think that ClosetHurleyFan's observation was that we whine about Han's traveling the way that Carolina fans complained about Shane's (alleged) flopping. The idea is that both are excellent players that are accused of getting away "murder."

[rasputin]

JVOO1: Do you seriously believe that Hansborough travels almost every time he touches the ball? Seriously.....

This constant I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.ing about him on this board has grown so tiresome and I see that sentiment emanating from Carolina fans like me as well as Duke fans. He works incredibly hard, plays with amazing intensity, has earned every d**n bit of success he has garnered and then some. Other coaches openly acknowledge it after watching him play. And all I see while he has been on the bench has been a guy rooting this teammates even though he is burning up inside to play ball again every game. If he gets a few calls here and there, so be it, he has earned the benefit of the doubt, the same way that someone like Shane Battier had.

Word is that he has worked incessantly to develop an outside shot. He shot 150 three pointers a day this summer and his manager charted every single shot and determined he hit 67 percent of them. Pure work ethic, nothing more. Decides he wants to improve and goes out and gets the job done, everytime.

Hansborough is a once in a lifetime kid in a lot of ways, I wish sometimes certain people on this board could just give it a rest. And believe me, I would say the same flippin thing if it concerned Carolina fans looking for dumb*** ways to pick Shane Battier apart......
He does get away with a lot of traveling. And he gets the benefit of the doubt on foul calls as well, on both offense and defense, especially on offense. Opposing players get called for a foul for just breathing. Or so it seems to me.
Having said that, Hansbrough is one of the best I've ever seen at staying concentrated and balanced once there has been contact, and he puts the ball in the hoop anyway.

[JDev]

I understand that you made many points attempting to separate Shane from Hans. I agree with some of them. However, I think that ClosetHurleyFan's observation was that we whine about Han's traveling the way that Carolina fans complained about Shane's (alleged) flopping. The idea is that both are excellent players that are accused of getting away "murder."

Agreed. I can see the same sentiment being applied to both players.

[shoutingncu]

Article from last year. I don't remember where I came across it (it may very well have been this board), but it seems relevant to the thread.

It has a fair amount of the usual "anti-duke" in it... overrated McD's players, NBA success gauge, but skip to the top section of the second page and it has a pretty fascinating bit on strength of schedule.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/stewart_mandel/02/21/duke/index.html

My brother (Duke '94) has pointed out when we'd argue in the past that Duke schedules a lot of mid-majors on neutral courts to get the team ready for the tournament. This article put numbers up from recent years, indicating that those teams Duke has played are really only gearing them up for Sweet 16 level play at best. Duke obviously expects to achieve beyond that, and Mandel argues that scheduling, even as highly rated as Duke's has been, is why they haven't.

So I certainly found it interesting. That being said... regardless of what the SOS says about Carolina this year, that December stretch starting with Oral Roberts is shameful.

I just got back from watching the team in Maui and I can't believe that aside from Michigan State this week, I have to wait until next month's conference play for the next real test of the team... and even then, we have to endure the follow-up to Boston College being College of Charleston.

One more thought on scheduling... Look at Davidson and Memphis last season. We're all well aware of who Davidson played, and played well, even in losses. And Memphis's OOC schedule was a gauntlet of high majors. Both seemed to be served well come tournament time.

[JDev]

No team that comes through the ACC is untested. Half of a team's conference games are on the opposition's home floor, where the hate runs much deeper than non-conference affairs (for example, I do not think Duke has lost a conference road game in the 2000s where the floor wasn't rushed. Pretty telling, and something no one else can say).
Duke's scheduling is strategic. Coach wants his team to play the types of teams you see in the first couple of rounds (RI, Davidson, etc.).
He wants his teams to play big-time opposition on neutral floors, just like you have to to advance in March (games at the Garden, Xavier). Arguing against Duke's schedule is always the farthest reach made by opposing fans. It's akin to the "don't make good pros" argument. Duke does have the most NBA players currently, along with the highest overall salary. At this point it is probably pretty safe to say that Coach K knows a little about what he is doing. Duke's inability to advance past the Sweet Sixteen since 2004 has nothing to do with scheduling. It has more to do with the fact that none of the teams in that span were built perfectly, or hot at the right time. For example, the best team of that span was probably 2006. I remember reading an article at the time that said no team has made in to the modern final four with two players accounting for over 75% of their scoring, which was the boat Duke was in with Williams and Redick.