Retired jerseys

[6th Man]

As I sat in Cameron for the Blue-White game admiring the retired jerseys hanging from the rafters...one really stuck out to me. First of all I really like the Landlord and would love to have him on this year's roster, but #23 doesn't quite fit to me. I know my opinion means nothing, but was just curious if anyone feels the same way. This is probably a better question for the older posters that can remember a lot of these players. When I think of Duke legends, his name doesn't pop up.

[dukeballer2294]

Well he has two. To get ur jersey retired u have to do a couple of things.
1. Championship
2. DPOY
3. POY

SHelden was one of the best defneds in duke's history and is the career leader in rebounds and blocks. He was 2 time DPOY and ddefinaltey deserves to be there. We also should of won a championship if it wasn't for a poor performance against LSU and JJ wearing down.

[SmartDevil]

In my opinion, Shelden's jersey is very appropriately retired. He made very significant contributions to the program and its success, contributions of the order that fully justify his jersey being honored as it has been.

I'm not sure why you are secondguessing those who made the decision to honor him. K and others who had input on the decision were the people who best understood the important role Shelden played.

[hughgs]

Well he has two. To get ur jersey retired u have to do a couple of things.
1. Championship
2. DPOY
3. POY

SHelden was one of the best defneds in duke's history and is the career leader in rebounds and blocks. He was 2 time DPOY and ddefinaltey deserves to be there. We also should of won a championship if it wasn't for a poor performance against LSU and JJ wearing down.

When was Shelden POY? Since you said he didn't win a championship and that he has two of the three "requirements" listed I assume he was POY at some point but I don't remember that occurring.

However, more to the point, there are no official requirements to retire a jersey, other than graduation. I didn't think that Mullins met any of your "requirements", though I could be wrong.

[msdukie]

These are the "official" requirements for jersey retirements:

1. Coach K decides a player's # is worthy of being retired upon graduation.
2. The administration/athletic department agrees with his "recommendation."

There are no other official requirements.

[davekay1971]

I think Williams' perception suffered a little because Duke didn't win a championship in his four years, which, of course, is not truly a reflection on his contributions. He was also shadowed a little by the glamour of JJ's accomplishments - insane 3 pointers get more highlights than post defense and rebounding. But, when you stop and think about it, our 3 best 4-year centers of the last 30 years are Gminski, Laettner, and Williams.

[Exiled_Devil]

As I sat in Cameron for the Blue-White game admiring the retired jerseys hanging from the rafters...one really stuck out to me. First of all I really like the Landlord and would love to have him on this year's roster, but #23 doesn't quite fit to me. I know my opinion means nothing, but was just curious if anyone feels the same way. This is probably a better question for the older posters that can remember a lot of these players. When I think of Duke legends, his name doesn't pop up.

All time leader in blocks
All time leader in rebounds.
2-time NDPOY.
And from WIkipedia, "Third player in NCAA history to score 1500 points, grab 1000 rebounds, block 350 shots, and pick up 150 steals."

Shelden was, arguably, the best defensive player we have ever had. Certainly statistically he beats out anyone in the defensive categories.

He had the odd circumstance of being in the shadow of our most prolific scorer, which may be why people don't think of him as much.

[Skitzle]

All time leader in blocks
All time leader in rebounds.
2-time NDPOY.
And from WIkipedia, "Third player in NCAA history to score 1500 points, grab 1000 rebounds, block 350 shots, and pick up 150 steals."

Shelden was, arguably, the best defensive player we have ever had. Certainly statistically he beats out anyone in the defensive categories.

He had the odd circumstance of being in the shadow of our most prolific scorer, which may be why people don't think of him as much.


Who were the other two?

[Cameron]

These are the "official" requirements for jersey retirements:

1. Coach K decides a player's # is worthy of being retired upon graduation.
2. The administration/athletic department agrees with his "recommendation."

There are no other official requirements.

While you are right to a certain degree (that being Coach K definitely has the weight to select), there are "requirements" that need to be met.

From what I have collected over the years from various people, in order to have one's jersey retired in Cameron one has to either win a national player of the year award, break some sort of major national or school record, and have graduated from Duke (the reason why Elton Brand's number is not retired, I believe).

If it was solely up to Coach K, and no "requirements," or a form of them, were required, then I am sure Wojo would float above our court as well. Duhon probably wouldn't be far behind, either.

I am sure somebody with a little more clout could help explain things further, however. But that is the basic method I have come up with over the years.

[Exiled_Devil]

Who were the other two?

Wikipedia did not grace me with that knowledge. It would take some work. give me a day.

[Bluedog]

Who were the other two?

David Robinson and Pervis Ellison.

[Indoor66]

David Robinson and Pervis Ellison.

Correction to David Robinson and the Hated Pervis Ellison! :mad::D

[Jim3k]

I didn't think that Mullins met any of your "requirements", though I could be wrong.


Jeff did not meet those requirements; first he played for Bubas and second, as others noted, played in an era where Eddie Cameron whould not allow any other jersey retirements. So he was 'caught up' some 30 years later. But as I will demonstrate, he is most deserving.

To start, an historical observation. Jeff played only 3 years of varsity basketball because the rules prohibited him (as well as Heyman, Vacendak, Verga, Marin others) from playing until they were sophs. Second, they all played before the 3-pt line was initiated. As a result, their career numbers do not include a fourth year. In fact the main debate here has been not whether Jeff deserved it, but whether Verga also deserved it.

First, Jeff was a two year teammate of Art Heyman. The two of them were arguably the best 1-2 punch the ACC has ever seen, even through today; and certainly in Duke history they remain the best tandem (though I'd agree that Redick and S. Williams could claim the honor.)

Jeff played all 86 games available during his career and scored in double figures in each game. He led Duke in scoring for 41 of those games. His career average was 21.9, scoring 1884 points which puts him 15th all time and 33rd all time of the 3-year guys—only Heyman and Groat ahead of him. He also averaged 9 rebs a game (totaling 776 for his career).

He led the 1964 team to Duke’s first National Championship game (loss to UCLA) and he and Heyman took the 1963 team to the National Semifinals (Loss to Loyola of Chicago a win over Oregon State in the consolation game, for 3d place.) He was our first Olympian basketball player (1964), and He was first team all-ACC for each of his 3 years. He was the ACC player of the year and the ACC Athlete of the year in 1964. He was also an All-American in 1963 and 1064. Playing in Heyman’s shadow hurt his national recognition and he was never placed better than 2d team AA.

Aside from Heyman and Groat, no one up to that time had better careers than Mullins. Arguably he was a better player than either, given his post-college basketball career – 12 seasons in the NBA, where he scored over 13,000 points.

[hurleyfor3]

David Robinson and Pervis Ellison.

Strangely enough, we faced both of them in same NCAA Tournament!

BTW, the "must have graduated from Duke" provision is recent if it is real. Before JWill most players were honored while they were still seniors. And Laettner graduated a semester late -- he is technically in the academic class of '93.

[hughgs]

Jeff did not meet those requirements; first he played for Bubas and second, as others noted, played in an era where Eddie Cameron whould not allow any other jersey retirements. So he was 'caught up' some 30 years later. But as I will demonstrate, he is most deserving.

To start, an historical observation. Jeff played only 3 years of varsity basketball because the rules prohibited him (as well as Heyman, Vacendak, Verga, Marin others) from playing until they were sophs. Second, they all played before the 3-pt line was initiated. As a result, their career numbers do not include a fourth year. In fact the main debate here has been not whether Jeff deserved it, but whether Verga also deserved it.

First, Jeff was a two year teammate of Art Heyman. The two of them were arguably the best 1-2 punch the ACC has ever seen, even through today; and certainly in Duke history they remain the best tandem (though I'd agree that Redick and S. Williams could claim the honor.)

Jeff played all 86 games available during his career and scored in double figures in each game. He led Duke in scoring for 41 of those games. His career average was 21.9, scoring 1884 points which puts him 15th all time and 33rd all time of the 3-year guys—only Heyman and Groat ahead of him. He also averaged 9 rebs a game (totaling 776 for his career).

He led the 1964 team to Duke’s first National Championship game (loss to UCLA) and he and Heyman took the 1963 team to the National Semifinals (Loss to Loyola of Chicago a win over Oregon State in the consolation game, for 3d place.) He was our first Olympian basketball player (1964), and He was first team all-ACC for each of his 3 years. He was the ACC player of the year and the ACC Athlete of the year in 1964. He was also an All-American in 1963 and 1064. Playing in Heyman’s shadow hurt his national recognition and he was never placed better than 2d team AA.

Aside from Heyman and Groat, no one up to that time had better careers than Mullins. Arguably he was a better player than either, given his post-college basketball career – 12 seasons in the NBA, where he scored over 13,000 points.

I wasn't arguing that Mullins didn't deserve to have his jersey retired. I was simply pointing out that one could have their jersey retired without any of the aforementioned "requirements' and therefore the requirement list was false without needing any further discussions.

[Jim3k]

I wasn't arguing that Mullins didn't deserve to have his jersey retired. I was simply pointing out that one could have their jersey retired without any of the aforementioned "requirements' and therefore the requirement list was false without needing any further discussions.

Didn't mean to imply that you had made that argument. Just wanted to point out that Jeff was quite deserving even before the current 'requirements' were established.

[hughgs]

Didn't mean to imply that you had made that argument. Just wanted to point out that Jeff was quite deserving even before the current 'requirements' were established.

I didn't think so. Sometimes it's tough to find the right place to place responses. Thanks.

[Jim3k]

scoring 1884 points which puts him 15th all time and 33rd all time of the 3-year guys—

Uhh...meant 3rd, not 33rd.


He was also an All-American in 1963 and 1064. Playing in Heyman’s shadow hurt his national recognition and he was never placed better than 2d team AA.


Uh...1964. :o


Oh... I should have given the Encyclopedia of Duke Basketball a hat tip for the Mullins info.

[mehmattski]

Uhh...meant 3rd, not 33rd.



Uh...1964. :o


Oh... I should have given the Encyclopedia of Duke Basketball a hat tip for the Mullins info.

Are you saying that Jeff Mullins was not involved in the Battle of Hastings, then? :cool:

[Jim3k]

Are you saying that Jeff Mullins was not involved in the Battle of Hastings, then? :cool:

No. His ancestors were there, though.

The Mullins Family in Europe (http://www.earlyfamilies.com/Pages/mullins-family-in-europe.html)


Descendants of this Guismund became known as the Famille de Moulins. In 1066, a son-in-law of Guismund II, a Guillame (William) de Moulins-la-Marche, accompanied William the Conqueror, Duke of Normandy, in the Battle of Hastings (depicted here on the Bayeux Tapestry) which added to his title of Duke of Normandy, also the title of King of England and gave rise to the Plantagenet dynasty. William de Moulins became a Comte (Count) of Perche, and inerited title to his father-in-law's lands at Moulins-la-Marche and Bonmoulins.

Ain't The Google fun?