Calling the Geek Squad (Television edition)

[DUKIECB]

Well the wife and I are finally going to upgrade to a new HDTV. After much research I wanted to get some of your opinions.

First, is 1080p really that much better than 720p? I know you have to have a 1080p source to truly get 1080p, such as blue-ray. If you have a 1080p source, is it really that much better on a 1080p display than a 720p?

Second, the new buzz is the 120h over 60h screen refresh rate. Will I really be able to tell the difference between the two? And if so, is it worth a couple hundred more dollars when I'm trying not to break the bank to begin with?

Any tips, advance or direction would be appreciated.

[sue71, esq]

I found this (http://bfads.net/Television-Buying-Guide-for-Black-Friday-2008) today. Maybe it will help. Seems to be much less "techno-geek" than AV Forums or whatever that's called. ;)

[Kdogg]

Well the wife and I are finally going to upgrade to a new HDTV. After much research I wanted to get some of your opinions.

First, is 1080p really that much better than 720p? I know you have to have a 1080p source to truly get 1080p, such as blue-ray. If you have a 1080p source, is it really that much better on a 1080p display than a 720p?

Second, the new buzz is the 120h over 60h screen refresh rate. Will I really be able to tell the difference between the two? And if so, is it worth a couple hundred more dollars when I'm trying not to break the bank to begin with?

Any tips, advance or direction would be appreciated.

What size TV are you considering? 50" and below the 720p v 1080p argument is moot. As for 120h v 60h, it's best to view them side by side and see for youself. If there is a difference sports programing would show it. I have never been able to tell, but I'm bias towards plasma.

[DUKIECB]

Right now I'm looking at under 50", either 42 or 46 more than likely. After comparing everything I'm leaning towards a plasma, but it might depend on black Friday sales as to which I can find the best deal on.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Right now I'm looking at under 50", either 42 or 46 more than likely. After comparing everything I'm leaning towards a plasma, but it might depend on black Friday sales as to which I can find the best deal on.

Look at the TV repair thread from last week for deals I linked at Costco on both 42 and 46 inch sets.

And buy your TV at either Sam's Club or Costco, because of their return policies. And Costco automatically gives you a 2 years warranty at no extra charge.

[Kdogg]

A lot of the Black Friday ads have been leaked on the web. Just google it. Also check the forums at fatwallet.com and slickdeals.net. There have been good deals for Panasonic (a tier one) plasmas the last few months. For some reason the price of LCDs have held up pretty well.

[sue71, esq]

A lot of the Black Friday ads have been leaked on the web. Just google it. Also check the forums at fatwallet.com and slickdeals.net. There have been good deals for Panasonic (a tier one) plasmas the last few months. For some reason the price of LCDs have held up pretty well.

Also check out techbargains.com (http://www.techbargains.com)

[moonpie23]

if you go for a 42", i can not say enough great things about the Vizio LCD....it is awesome...i use one in our main control room as a computer monitor, but i've also played DVDs, blu-ray and tons of graphic stuff on it...

the price is excellent also...

i just wish they made a 65" lcd..

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

I thought this interactive gadget selector was pretty useful for those looking for some basic tech buying answers. Pogue has a good way of taking techno-babble and translating to more consumer friendly terms.

http://nytimes.com/interactive/2008/11/18/technology/personaltechspecial/20081118-pogue-o-matic.html

[Channing]

I am planning on buying a TV in the next 2 weeks or so, and I really have trouble deciphering the tech websites. The size will probably be 40-50 inches. Will any answers change if I go up to a 50-60 inch tv?

Is there really a difference b/w 1080i and 1080p (what is it) and is that so much better than 780i? If there is really a noticeable difference (i.e. during basketball games one is crisp while the other is a little fuzzy)

What about LCD vs. Plasma? I am not looking for "that is really a preference thing", because honestly, I have no preference - I want something that works well and is economical.

[TNTDevil]

The Panasonic Plasmas (I own the Panasonic TH-42PZ85U 42" Plasma TV) are the consistent top ranked models in Consumer Reports.

As for the best place to buy... the Interwebs. May not have the best return policy(s) but you can usually find the sets for much less than locally and often with free shipping and NO TAX!

I bought mine from PowersellerNYC.com just over a year ago for $1399 and it's now listed on their site for $1,095. Excellent TV, Excellent picture, excellent sound (according to my neighbor who also has one. I have a home theater system so don't use the TV's sound.)

Look around on the webs and see what's out there as far as deals. Not to long ago I saw my TV for $965. No tax or shipping.

[-jk]

I am planning on buying a TV in the next 2 weeks or so, and I really have trouble deciphering the tech websites. The size will probably be 40-50 inches. Will any answers change if I go up to a 50-60 inch tv?

Is there really a difference b/w 1080i and 1080p (what is it) and is that so much better than 780i? If there is really a noticeable difference (i.e. during basketball games one is crisp while the other is a little fuzzy)

What about LCD vs. Plasma? I am not looking for "that is really a preference thing", because honestly, I have no preference - I want something that works well and is economical.

i is interlace; p is progressive. p is better.

If you didn't see it near the beginning of the thread, here (http://bfads.net/Television-Buying-Guide-for-Black-Friday-2008) is a nice overview.

-jk

[DevilAlumna]

What about LCD vs. Plasma? I am not looking for "that is really a preference thing", because honestly, I have no preference - I want something that works well and is economical.

There's a couple of good videos here: http://www.howstuffworks.com/search.php?terms=lcd&gallery=1&media=video

that talk about LCD vs. Plasma.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

LCD's use considerably less electrical power than a plasma, so your operating cost over the years you have it would be considerably different.

Buy at Costco or Sam's Club, specifically because of the return policies. And Costco gives you a 2-year warranty without having to buy an extended warranty.

Unless you find a leftover model some where (and if you do it should be way lower in price!), all you'll find in the stores today are 1080p's and not 1080i/720p's. Although broadcasts are 1080i today, Bluray's are 1080p.

[YmoBeThere]

I thought you were looking for the Buy More Nerd Herd from Chuck.

[Kimist]

LCD's use considerably less electrical power than a plasma, so your operating cost over the years you have it would be considerably different.


You may have already answered my question...

I recently spent a few days at a hotel that had a 42" plasma HD TV in the room (LG?). Very nice picture, sound, etc.

BUT

that sucker was like a fireplace with the heat it generated!! I first noticed it when I just happened to walk in front of the screen.

Is there that much difference in power use with the plasma, which to me does seem to have the better quality picture for that type of set?

Thanks!

k

[OZZIE4DUKE]

LCD's use considerably less electrical power than a plasma, so your operating cost over the years you have it would be considerably different.




You may have already answered my question...
You're welcome, Honor. Thanks for joining us!
I recently spent a few days at a hotel that had a 42" plasma HD TV in the room (LG?). Very nice picture, sound, etc.

BUT

that sucker was like a fireplace with the heat it generated!! I first noticed it when I just happened to walk in front of the screen.

Is there that much difference in power use with the plasma, which to me does seem to have the better quality picture for that type of set?

Thanks!

k
Yes, I believe I did! :D I don't have actual specs to give you, but the extra power used can create heat, which is what you felt.

[ArnieMc]

I am planning on buying a TV in the next 2 weeks or so, and I really have trouble deciphering the tech websites. The size will probably be 40-50 inches. Will any answers change if I go up to a 50-60 inch tv?

Is there really a difference b/w 1080i and 1080p (what is it) and is that so much better than 780i? If there is really a noticeable difference (i.e. during basketball games one is crisp while the other is a little fuzzy)

What about LCD vs. Plasma? I am not looking for "that is really a preference thing", because honestly, I have no preference - I want something that works well and is economical.The "i" means interlaced and is used almost exclusively on CRT (Cathode Ray Tube) TV's - the old technology, huge, heavy tube-type or rear projection sets. The "p" means progressive and is used on all the newer technology (LCD, DLP, Plasma, etc.) TV's. Basically, interlaced TV's use a beam to fill in the odd numbered lines down the screen and then it goes back to the top to fill in the even numbered lines. Progressive TV's do them all at once. Interlaced TV's are getting really hard to find.

Broadcasts are in 3 definitions: Standard Definition (480i) and 2 High Definitions (720p - ABC, ESPN, etc. and 1080i - CBS, NBC, etc.). Cable or satellite companies frequently standardize and compress the signal to whatever their box understands which may convert it to whatever you ask for. HiDef TV's simply take whatever they get and convert it to their native display resolution and display it.

That being said, whatever you get will look wonderful as long as you're not too close. The limit for 720p sets is about two diagonals so if you get a 60" set and you are planning to sit closer than 10 feet, definitely get a 1080p. Otherwise, get the cheapest set that has the features you need.

[Channing]

Thanks for the advice. I have distilled the information into the following:

Plasma uses more power, but has a better picture (a rolling picture?) than LCD. LCD might last a little longer, but in reality, both will last for quite a few years. LCDs are a little more expensive. The ratio (not sure of what) I want is 50,000:1. Panasonic is a good brand to go with.

How about LG? They seem to have some good deals out there.

I I have mistaken anything, please let me know. Also, at what size is a lower ratio really noticeable.

[Jeffrey]

Thanks for the advice. I have distilled the information into the following:

Plasma uses more power...

I'm not sure there's a significant power usage difference with the newer plasmas vs. LCDs. I recently purchased a Pioneer plasma (best TV picture I've ever seen) and it's energy star certified.

One thing that may not have been mentioned..... plasmas look better in darker rooms and LCDs look better in brighter rooms.

[Ben63]

Try the website newegg.com. They have some great stuff really cheap. They sell mostly computers and electronics, but have some of TV's too. I got a great deal on a 32" 720 that I am taking to college. They don't seem to have many TVs that are huge, but the stuff they do have is certainly a good price.

[Channing]

so is the ratio not really relevant once you reach a certain level (say 25,000:1)?

[OZZIE4DUKE]

so is the ratio not really relevant once you reach a certain level (say 25,000:1)?
Don't know about the ratio, but the refresh rate is important. I was in Sam's Club yesterday and I noticed they had a Vizio 47" and a Visio 42" next to each other, priced at $898 and $897 respectively - only $1 difference for 5 extra inches ;). And around the aisle was another 42"er at $797. I asked the "expert" why the price difference. Seems that the more expensive 42" model had a 120 Hz refresh rate and the other two had a 60 Hz refresh rate. He said the faster rate would make fast action scenes much smoother, such as watching a thrown football, a shot hockey puck or race car in motion. The video loop on was showing a soccer match, and I think I could see what he was talking about.

[Channing]

So I ended up getting a panasonic Vierra. I plugged it in and hooked it up to the TV with an HDMI cable. The regular channels are fine and take up the full screen. I went to one of the HD channels and there were the black bars above and below the picture, as well as like a neon green line about a cm thick right above the picture. Does anyone know anything about that? I assume what I was watching just happened to not be in HD which is why it had the black bars above and below, but the green line was concerning.

Anyone have any idea?

[OZZIE4DUKE]

So I ended up getting a panasonic Vierra. I plugged it in and hooked it up to the TV with an HDMI cable. The regular channels are fine and take up the full screen. I went to one of the HD channels and there were the black bars above and below the picture, as well as like a neon green line about a cm thick right above the picture. Does anyone know anything about that? I assume what I was watching just happened to not be in HD which is why it had the black bars above and below, but the green line was concerning.

Anyone have any idea?
Check the aspect ratio and output resolution settings on your cable box. It is in the "display" section of settings, at least it is on my TWC cable box. My 2001 HD TV is a 4x3 screen, while your's is a 16x9. The settings I use are 1080i (for the HD channels, and I get black bands top and bottom of the picture in normal view) and 480p (for non HD channels so I get a full screen, normal view). You'll have to play with the setting a bit. I suspect if you use 1080i, you'll get full screen pictures on HD channels and bands on the side of non-HD channels, which should be very acceptable to you. I hate stretching the picture because of the distortion - I'd rather have the black bands where appropriate.

[Tommac]

I don't know anything about the green line, but if you're seeing the black bars above and below the picture, your are probably watching a widescreen broadcast that is greater than 1.85 to 1 (16x9) which is the standard widescreen dimension ratio. Some movies are recorded in 2.35 to 1 or even 2.40 to 1 and will produce those black bars. If you are watching a standard def picture (non-widescreen) on a widesceen tv then you should be seeing black bars to the sides of the picture (assuming the tv is not stretching the picture). I purchased an LCD tv two years ago because I tend to still watch a lot of standard def broadcasting and I was worried about the burn-in effect of the black bars on the plasma screen.

[Channing]

so my TV is hooked up and working - but I am not sure I am actually getting programming in HD. The cable box is telling me its coming through in 1080i, but when I unplugged the hdmi cable it didnt seem to make any difference on the screen. Is there any way to check to see if I am really getting HD? Do the HD channels always come through in HD, or only certain programs?

[OZZIE4DUKE]

so my TV is hooked up and working - but I am not sure I am actually getting programming in HD. The cable box is telling me its coming through in 1080i, but when I unplugged the hdmi cable it didnt seem to make any difference on the screen. Is there any way to check to see if I am really getting HD? Do the HD channels always come through in HD, or only certain programs?
Umm, you say you have unplugged the HDMI cable from your TV and that you still get a picture. How else is the cable system connected to the TV? An RF cable? Video and Audio cables? Rde, blue, green cables with an audio cable? I was going to ask "through the VCR", but I won't assume you have that hooked up.

Chances are you do have an alternate signal coming in and that is what you are viewing, maybe in HD but not the highest quality HD. Check the input selections and make sure you are on the correct HDMI input and that it IS hooked up :)

[Channing]

Umm, you say you have unplugged the HDMI cable from your TV and that you still get a picture. How else is the cable system connected to the TV? An RF cable? Video and Audio cables? Rde, blue, green cables with an audio cable? I was going to ask "through the VCR", but I won't assume you have that hooked up.

Chances are you do have an alternate signal coming in and that is what you are viewing, maybe in HD but not the highest quality HD. Check the input selections and make sure you are on the correct HDMI input and that it IS hooked up :)

if I have an HDMI cable do I not need the traditional cable that runs from the cable box to the TV? Does the HDMI cable transmit even the non-hd channels?

[TNTDevil]

if I have an HDMI cable do I not need the traditional cable that runs from the cable box to the TV?No.


Does the HDMI cable transmit even the non-hd channels?Yes.

Are you using true "Cable" (e.g. TW Cable, Comcast) or DirecTV/Dish Network?

Based on that answer, are you signed up for the HD content? Some cable (sucky TWC for example) may not be delivering *true* HD content even on their HD channels.

The best channel to check you HD content is Discovery. Almost everything they do is in true (recorded and broadcast) 1080 HD.

[Channing]

No.

Yes.

Are you using true "Cable" (e.g. TW Cable, Comcast) or DirecTV/Dish Network?

Based on that answer, are you signed up for the HD content? Some cable (sucky TWC for example) may not be delivering *true* HD content even on their HD channels.

The best channel to check you HD content is Discovery. Almost everything they do is in true (recorded and broadcast) 1080 HD.

we have Comcast. I will call them to make sure we are getting the HD. Thanks!

[Jeffrey]

Is there any way to check to see if I am really getting HD?

Many TVs will display this info. (usually with the input info.). Check your TVs' manual to see if it will. You bought a nice TV, so I suspect it will.


Do the HD channels always come through in HD, or only certain programs?

Only certain programs.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

if I have an HDMI cable do I not need the traditional cable that runs from the cable box to the TV? Does the HDMI cable transmit even the non-hd channels?

It all goes through the HDMI cable. Non HD programs on HD channels will have black bars on the right and left side of the screen. The picture quality should still be quite good. Non HD channels will always have the black bars unless you stretch or zoom the picture. I don't like the distortion that stretching imposes (people look fat, er, squat :D), so I would rather have the bars on the sides, but that is a personal preference.

[-jk]

Somewhere your TV will have an "input" selection. Make sure it's on hdmi.

-jk

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Check the input selections and make sure you are on the correct HDMI input and that it IS hooked up :)


Somewhere your TV will have an "input" selection. Make sure it's on hdmi.

-jk
Yeah, what -jk said! :cool:

[-jk]

Umm, you say you have unplugged the HDMI cable from your TV and that you still get a picture. How else is the cable system connected to the TV? An RF cable? Video and Audio cables? Rde, blue, green cables with an audio cable? I was going to ask "through the VCR", but I won't assume you have that hooked up.

Chances are you do have an alternate signal coming in and that is what you are viewing, maybe in HD but not the highest quality HD. Check the input selections and make sure you are on the correct HDMI input and that it IS hooked up :)


Somewhere your TV will have an "input" selection. Make sure it's on hdmi.

-jk


Yeah, what -jk said! :cool:

Some of us like to keep it short and sweet! ;)

-jk