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taiw93
11-12-2008, 09:33 PM
Anyone have any information on SIU? I know that their best player (Faulknor, I think) graduated last year and that they are now rather weak in the front court, but that's about it...

RainingThrees
11-12-2008, 09:33 PM
UCLA game going on right here

Their back court looks very good, although it is a cream puff team.

Indoor66
11-13-2008, 07:56 AM
Anyone have any information on SIU? I know that their best player (Faulknor, I think) graduated last year and that they are now rather weak in the front court, but that's about it...

Don't know much about their current team but they have hurt Duke before. In the 1967 NIT, Duke lost in the first round to the Salukies 72-63. That was on March 3, 1967 in The Garden. So Ill was led by a guy who played a little bit in the NBA for the Knicks - Walt "Clyde" Frazier.

Wander
11-13-2008, 08:33 AM
Anyone have any information on SIU? I know that their best player (Faulknor, I think) graduated last year and that they are now rather weak in the front court, but that's about it...

They always play very disciplined defense. Look for the trick where they put their hands in opponents faces to try to screw with their vision rather than have their arms extended. I mean when they're just guarding on the perimeter, not when they're contesting shots (Battier). This leads to lots of turnovers but also lots of free throw attempts for opponents, so it will be a good game to see if we're better at the FT line.

webersback
11-13-2008, 11:33 AM
The last time these two teams played Duke won 105-70 at the first round of the NCAA in 1994. We will play tenacious defense, we are extremely young, 7 newcomers and they all will play solid minutes. We are a little more offensive minded this year and it is paying off.

This will be a great test for our young kids and a reward for our vetarans like Bryan Mullins who you will appreciate the way he plays the game. He is a lot like Wojo in that he plays very hard, has great fundamentals, and it is "his" team this year. Hope for a better game than the one in 94.

Come visit our forum at:
www.salukitalk.net

roywhite
11-13-2008, 11:59 AM
The last time these two teams played Duke won 105-70 at the first round of the NCAA in 1994. We will play tenacious defense, we are extremely young, 7 newcomers and they all will play solid minutes. We are a little more offensive minded this year and it is paying off.

This will be a great test for our young kids and a reward for our vetarans like Bryan Mullins who you will appreciate the way he plays the game. He is a lot like Wojo in that he plays very hard, has great fundamentals, and it is "his" team this year. Hope for a better game than the one in 94.

Come visit our forum at:
www.salukitalk.net

Thanks for stopping by and appreciate the info.

Looking forward to the matchup.

stals
11-13-2008, 01:00 PM
Have the times for next week's semifinal games been determined yet? The K2CVC website and goduke.com says Duke/SIU is at 7:00, but the ESPN TV schedule and the CVC website's bracket indicates TBD.

If anybody knows whether this has been set, it would help those of us attending to set our calendars for Thursday.

Wander
11-13-2008, 01:27 PM
We are a little more offensive minded this year and it is paying off.


Yeah I was wonder about those 50+ points you guys scored in the 2nd half last night. I remember most SIU games recently being won by scores of like 12 to 10. :D

webersback
11-13-2008, 01:51 PM
We have the best recruiting class in SIU history, bar none. We have Mr. Basketball of Illinois from 2008, Kevin Dillard. We have two kids from St. Louis' McLuer North team (Anthony Booker and Torres Roundtree)that won state in 2007 and finished 2nd in 2008. We have a kid from Chicago Marshall who lead his team to the Illinois 2A title last year, Ryan Hare. We have a 6'11" kid, (Nick Evans) from Carbondale High School who has tremendous upside and has only really played 4 years of organized basketball. Justin Bocot sat out last year as a prop kid, but he was highly recruited here in the midwest out of high school.

They will make mistakes, but they are really athletic and understand the way SIU plays basketball. In the win against U-MASS, the Minutemen appeared to be a step quicker in the first half and got up by 11 at the break. But once the kids got used to the speed of the game they took off and SIU had only 1 turnover in the second half, while U-Mass point guard Chris Lowe had 10 turnovers himself.

We will attempt to guard 94 feet and get you out of the passing lanes with the intent of getting you out of your offense. The trademark of the Salukis is to wear the opposition down and try to stay in the game and win the final 11 minutes of the game and have a chance at the end.

There will be a suprising number of Saluki fans making the trek to the Garden, and hopefully they can convince Walt Frazier to make it if he and the Knicks are in town.

gw67
11-13-2008, 02:02 PM
The matchup with their point guard, Mullins, should be worth watching. He is averaging 10.5 apg against 2.0 turnovers. He is also their second leading scorer although they have never been known as a high scoring team. It will be interesting to see whether Smith and the Devils' deny defense cause their backcourt to turn the ball over.

gw67

RainingThrees
11-13-2008, 02:06 PM
Miles or LT should start this game, last game with Zoub was a fouling mess.

DukeUsul
11-13-2008, 02:09 PM
We have the best recruiting class in SIU history, bar none. We have Mr. Basketball of Illinois from 2008, Kevin Dillard. We have two kids from St. Louis' McLuer North team (Anthony Booker and Torres Roundtree)that won state in 2007 and finished 2nd in 2008. We have a kid from Chicago Marshall who lead his team to the Illinois 2A title last year, Ryan Hare. We have a 6'11" kid, (Nick Evans) from Carbondale High School who has tremendous upside and has only really played 4 years of organized basketball. Justin Bocot sat out last year as a prop kid, but he was highly recruited here in the midwest out of high school.

They will make mistakes, but they are really athletic and understand the way SIU plays basketball. In the win against U-MASS, the Minutemen appeared to be a step quicker in the first half and got up by 11 at the break. But once the kids got used to the speed of the game they took off and SIU had only 1 turnover in the second half, while U-Mass point guard Chris Lowe had 10 turnovers himself.

We will attempt to guard 94 feet and get you out of the passing lanes with the intent of getting you out of your offense. The trademark of the Salukis is to wear the opposition down and try to stay in the game and win the final 11 minutes of the game and have a chance at the end.

There will be a suprising number of Saluki fans making the trek to the Garden, and hopefully they can convince Walt Frazier to make it if he and the Knicks are in town.

If SIU presses us, I actually think this is to our advantage. Our half-court offense still needs more work. I think we look much better on the run. Combine that with our excellent ball-handlers in the open court, and I could see us doing pretty well breaking the press and getting easy baskets.

I think the best defensive strategy against us is a 25-foot extended zone. It would force us to do a lot of motion and cutting, which we haven't shown we're quite ready for yet.

webersback
11-13-2008, 02:15 PM
The press will not be trapping pressure. Our guards will simply pick you up from the moment you touch the ball with man to man pressure. They will try to double-team on the wings if the ball is handed off, but for the most part it is just man to man pressure with rotating back-side help.

U-Mass was able to start quickly with their quickness, but eventually they wore down and it was a half court game the final 10 minutes of the game and their half-court offense was not very good. We ran a bunch of plays and went away from our usual motion offense and were able to take the game over.

MulletMan
11-13-2008, 02:18 PM
Man, I hope the men's team isn't just skipping over the URI game like y'all are.

roywhite
11-13-2008, 02:27 PM
A quick trip to the Saluki board revealed a few things:

1. They'd love to beat Duke.
2. They think we don't know much about them (true, I guess)
3. They hate Greg Paulus.

Related to the other thread on Duke's brand, we're still a well-recognized villain.

Bob Green
11-13-2008, 02:36 PM
Miles or LT should start this game, last game with Zoub was a fouling mess.

The facts don't support your post. Brian Zoubek started against Georgia Southern and played 10 minutes in the first half with zero fouls. He finished the game with 14 minutes of court action, three fouls and zero turnovers. Oh yeah, six points and five rebounds. Yes, he needs to finish better above the basket but improvement will come.

BlueintheFace
11-13-2008, 02:51 PM
The facts don't support your post. Brian Zoubek started against Georgia Southern and played 10 minutes in the first half with zero fouls. He finished the game with 14 minutes of court action, three fouls and zero turnovers. Oh yeah, six points and five rebounds. Yes, he needs to finish better above the basket but improvement will come.

True. The longer Zoubek is on the floor without a foul, the more confident he looks on both ends of the floor. Once he gets in to the flow of the game he becomes a much better player.

SilkyJ
11-13-2008, 03:04 PM
are we not getting ahead of ourselves here? We play Rhode Island on Sunday peeps.

DUKE3042
11-13-2008, 03:58 PM
An update for the siu game.......they have some good players and play really hard defense, but the player we should look out for is Carlton Fay. He's 6'8" 235 and can do everything. He can rebound, bang down low, shoot the 3, handle the ball, he's just an all around player. He was hurt last year, which slowed him down, but I think he's really going to show what he can do this year.

The funny thing is that the siu fans don't even realize it or talk much about him. They are so hyped on their freshman class and seniors. So far Fay is their high scorer and rebounder.

Now I'm not saying he's the best player ever. I'm just saying they don't even realize what they have. Duke is still going to hand it to them pretty good!!!!!

It's going to be fun though. GO SCHEYER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GO DUKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rudy
11-13-2008, 04:02 PM
A quick trip to the Saluki board revealed a few things:

1. They'd love to beat Duke.
2. They think we don't know much about them (true, I guess)
3. They hate Greg Paulus.

Related to the other thread on Duke's brand, we're still a well-recognized villain.

Sounds like it will be a fun game to watch. Thanks to webersback for the low-down on his team.

Wander
11-13-2008, 04:28 PM
Man, I hope the men's team isn't just skipping over the URI game like y'all are.

Of course I hope absolutely no one on the actual team is thinking about anything other than Rhode Island.

Fans are different though. As a fan, I'm with you in that I'm not skipping over Rhode Island like a lot of people here. I'm skipping over Rhode Island AND Southern Illinois and thinking about UCLA.

Wander
11-13-2008, 04:37 PM
Brian Zoubek started against Georgia Southern and played 10 minutes in the first half with zero fouls. He finished the game with 14 minutes of court action, three fouls and zero turnovers.

Of course I'm rooting for him along with you, but I'm not sure quoting a 14 minute, 3 fouls stat line is the best way to defend against the idea that Zoubek fouls a lot.

saluki0483
11-13-2008, 05:51 PM
Another Saluki fan here. I normally don't join other fan boards because they are full of dbags, but you guys seem pretty cool so I figured I'd come by and let you know if you have any questions let me know. Weber has it down pretty good so I won't add much. But feel free to stop by: www.salukitalk.net or ask me any questions. I'm known as a "boobird" at Salukitalk because I'm a realist. I don't see us winning this game, but if it stays close, anything can happen which I'm sure you guys know.

Obviously this is a big game for us. I will tell you two things:

1) We will play nothing but man to man.
2) You guys will really enjoy watching Bryan Mullins play.

Clipsfan
11-13-2008, 06:08 PM
Of course I hope absolutely no one on the actual team is thinking about anything other than Rhode Island.

Fans are different though. As a fan, I'm with you in that I'm not skipping over Rhode Island like a lot of people here. I'm skipping over Rhode Island AND Southern Illinois and thinking about UCLA.

Same here...I bought tickets to NYC from Los Angeles a few weeks ago because I want to see Duke play UCLA. Here's to hoping that it happens!

GoDawgs
11-13-2008, 06:10 PM
An update for the siu game.......they have some good players and play really hard defense, but the player we should look out for is Carlton Fay. He's 6'8" 235 and can do everything. He can rebound, bang down low, shoot the 3, handle the ball, he's just an all around player. He was hurt last year, which slowed him down, but I think he's really going to show what he can do this year.

The funny thing is that the siu fans don't even realize it or talk much about him. They are so hyped on their freshman class and seniors. So far Fay is their high scorer and rebounder.

Now I'm not saying he's the best player ever. I'm just saying they don't even realize what they have. Duke is still going to hand it to them pretty good!!!!!

It's going to be fun though. GO SCHEYER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GO DUKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No most Dawgs fans know he is good. The injury really was not the problem with him last year, it was his foot speed and learning to play at a much higher level of basketball. He played scared at times too. He was a kid that was recruited by Wisconsin so he has skills. But in high school he played against players that he could do anything at will (his whole high school has about 60 kids) so it took him time to adjust to the NCAA. But he is very skilled and has looked great so far this year.

You are dead on right about him he is good inside and out, may be the best 3 point shooter on the team. I tink he is a most more talented player the Falkner or Shaw from last year, he can create on his own and will not hesitate to pull up and shoot with a guy in his face. H will be in the running for MVC player of the year I bet.

taiw93
11-13-2008, 06:32 PM
Man, I hope the men's team isn't just skipping over the URI game like y'all are.

If you think we're bad, check out Duke's scout board. (http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=167&f=1386&t=3391183) As of now, they already have four pages on their pregame thread for the game against UCLA! Not only is that game two games away, but may not even ever happen! :)

GoDawgs
11-13-2008, 06:55 PM
Here is a little run down of the SIU players for the people who would like to know more about them since we do not get a lot of national coverage.

PG- B. Mullins: He is the leader of the team, plays much better then his natural skill set and is very good in the clutch. Was the MVC defensive player of the year. While he is not as fast as most PG he defends he still excels because of hard work and being physical, along with great positioning. Thinks the game very well, as his Dad is a AAU coach.

PG/G- K. Dillard very dynamic player who is a little short but very quick and a great dribbler. Good 3- point shot and excellent passer, but will force it sometimes mainly because he still has a lot to learn as he is a Fr. Was Mr Illinois last year. Was a lucky get for SIU because he was under the radar because he was only about 5'8 but grew going into his Senior year.

G/F- W. Clemmons: Solid on d. Tends to be very streaky shooter, at times looking very bad. But at least so far this year has came up with the big shots when needed. Honestly I never know what to expect from him.

PF- C. Fay: Like I said in the other post probably best scorer on the team. Strong and fast who can play a great inside/outside game. Very soft touch on his shot.

C- T. Boyle: Not a skilled player but plays very physical and intense. Most likely will be in foul trouble. Only really has one good Offensive move and that is to Bull his way to the rim. Can play nuts and out of control at times.

PF- A. Booker: Probably the most physically gifted player on the team but has looked a little raw and tentative so far. Big, athletic with a very good wing span. We need him to step it up a little.

G- R. Hare: Very physical guard. Strong defensively and very good rebounder for his size. Another FR.

C- N. Evens: Big player that runs well for his size, still learning to play, must become more physical.

G- J. Bocot: Has looked solid all around so far for a FR. Still trying to get a better read on him myself.

G- T. Roundtree: So far has looked good on D but has not done much on Offense.

PF- C. Cornelius: Kind of who knows. Looked ok in the first few games but played only a min. or two last game.


Probably the most talented team I have seen at SIU but very young. Looked like two different teams at times. But that can be expected from such a young team. I am hoping for a good game against Duke. But for that to happen SIU has to play for two halfs not just one. Fay must stay out or foul trouble as well, last game he got in trouble early and only played 19 mins but still scored 17 points.

Here is to a great game and hope this gave you a little better idea about the SIU players.

Indoor66
11-13-2008, 06:59 PM
Here is a little run down of the SIU players for the people who would like to know more about them since we do not get a lot of national coverage.

PG- B. Mullins: He is the leader of the team, plays much better then his natural skill set and is very good in the clutch. Was the MVC defensive player of the year. While he is not as fast as most PG he defends he still excels because of hard work and being physical, along with great positioning. Thinks the game very good, as his Dad is a AAU coach.

PG/G- K. Dillard very dynamic player who is a little short but very quick and a great dribbler. Good 3- point shot and excellent passer, but will force it sometimes manialy because he still has a lot to learn as he is a Fr. Was Mr Illinois last year. Was a lucky get for SIU because he was under the radar because he was only about 5'8 but grew going into his Senior year.

G/F- W. Clemmons: Solid on d. Tends to be very streaking shooter, at times looking very bad. But at least so far this year has came up with the big shoots when needed. Honestly I never know what to expect from him.

PF- C. Fay: Like I said in the other post probably best scorer on the team. Strong and fast who can play a great inside/outside game. Very soft touch on his shoot.

C- T. Boyle: Not a skilled player but plays very physical and intense. Most likely will be in foul trouble. Only really has one good Offensive move and that is to Bull his was to the rim. Can play nuts and out of control at times.

PF- A. Booker: Probably he the most physically gifted player on the team but has looked a little raw and tinitive so far. Big athletic with a very good wing span. We need him to step it up a little.

G- R. Hare: Very physical guard. Strong defensively and very good rebounded for his size. Another FR.

C- N. Evens: Big player that runs well for his size, still learning to play must become more physical.

G- J. Bocot: Has looked solid all around so far for a FR. Still trying to get a better read on him myself.

G- T. Roundtree: So far has looked good on D but has not done much on Offense.

PF- C. Cornelius: Kind of who knows looked ok in the first few games but played only a min. or two last game.


Probably the most talented team I have seen at SIU but very young. Looked like two different teams at times. But that can be expected from such a young team. I am hoping for a good game against Duke. But for that to happen SIU has to play for two halfs not just one. Fay must stay out or foul trouble as well, last game he got in trouble early and only played 19 mins but still scored 17 points.

Here is to a great game and hope this gave you a little better idea about the SIU players.

Thanks for the rundown. Good luck in all your OTHER games!

DevilCastDownfromDurham
11-13-2008, 07:09 PM
Another Saluki fan here. I normally don't join other fan boards because they are full of dbags, but you guys seem pretty cool so I figured I'd come by and let you know if you have any questions let me know. Weber has it down pretty good so I won't add much. But feel free to stop by: www.salukitalk.net or ask me any questions. I'm known as a "boobird" at Salukitalk because I'm a realist. I don't see us winning this game, but if it stays close, anything can happen which I'm sure you guys know.

Obviously this is a big game for us. I will tell you two things:

1) We will play nothing but man to man.
2) You guys will really enjoy watching Bryan Mullins play.

Thanks for stopping by. It's great to have the perspective of opposing fans. I checked in at the boards and was very impressed with the discussion (esp. the number of folks who shot down any talk of bad officiating as an excuse). Sounds like a passionate and knowledgeable fan base, which is great to see (unfortunately, we're used to Tar Heels :p)

From the little I've seen I LOVE the defensive principles that the Salikis use and it sounds like Lowery has the players to really execute. I'm really looking forward to watching two defensive powerhouses go at it!

Anyway, great to have all of you folks here to join in the discussion.

Edited to add: Special thanks to GoDawgs for that great overview. Young but promising. Sounds like a team on the cusp of really good things.

saluki0483
11-13-2008, 07:17 PM
Here is a little run down of the SIU players for the people who would like to know more about them since we do not get a lot of national coverage.

PG- B. Mullins: He is the leader of the team, plays much better then his natural skill set and is very good in the clutch. Was the MVC defensive player of the year. While he is not as fast as most PG he defends he still excels because of hard work and being physical, along with great positioning. Thinks the game very good, as his Dad is a AAU coach.

PG/G- K. Dillard very dynamic player who is a little short but very quick and a great dribbler. Good 3- point shot and excellent passer, but will force it sometimes manialy because he still has a lot to learn as he is a Fr. Was Mr Illinois last year. Was a lucky get for SIU because he was under the radar because he was only about 5'8 but grew going into his Senior year.

G/F- W. Clemmons: Solid on d. Tends to be very streaking shooter, at times looking very bad. But at least so far this year has came up with the big shoots when needed. Honestly I never know what to expect from him.

PF- C. Fay: Like I said in the other post probably best scorer on the team. Strong and fast who can play a great inside/outside game. Very soft touch on his shoot.

C- T. Boyle: Not a skilled player but plays very physical and intense. Most likely will be in foul trouble. Only really has one good Offensive move and that is to Bull his was to the rim. Can play nuts and out of control at times.

PF- A. Booker: Probably he the most physically gifted player on the team but has looked a little raw and tinitive so far. Big athletic with a very good wing span. We need him to step it up a little.

G- R. Hare: Very physical guard. Strong defensively and very good rebounded for his size. Another FR.

C- N. Evens: Big player that runs well for his size, still learning to play must become more physical.

G- J. Bocot: Has looked solid all around so far for a FR. Still trying to get a better read on him myself.

G- T. Roundtree: So far has looked good on D but has not done much on Offense.

PF- C. Cornelius: Kind of who knows looked ok in the first few games but played only a min. or two last game.


Probably the most talented team I have seen at SIU but very young. Looked like two different teams at times. But that can be expected from such a young team. I am hoping for a good game against Duke. But for that to happen SIU has to play for two halfs not just one. Fay must stay out or foul trouble as well, last game he got in trouble early and only played 19 mins but still scored 17 points.

Here is to a great game and hope this gave you a little better idea about the SIU players.

I can add a little:

Mullins: Hard nosed, very, very strong guard. Lefty, not a bad shooter, but only a set shooter. On the move, not so much. He is very, very strong though. He can be a very physical player if the zebras allow him to be.

Dillard: Streaky. Started two preseason games, then threw a hissy in the 2nd exhibition and didn't start the season opener. Will likely start against you guys because Roundtree sprained his ankle. Makes silly, silly freshman mistakes.

Fay: In range as soon as he steps on the court. Plays balls to the wall, takes charges, dives, blah blah blah. Like GoDawgs, will probably be in foul trouble.

Boyle: Solid player, might get 10 points and 5 boards. Veteran. Garbage man, not a go to guy but have to be aware of him. Could also get in foul trouble, has cleaned it up a bit last year and this year but the potential is still there. Very, very strong.

Clemmons: Can defend with the best of them. I believe he was 6th man of the year one year. Better coming off the bench, in my opinion. Not an offensive threat unless he's in his hot streak.

Booker: Haven't seen much from him this year so far. Top 25 recruit this year I believe (if not, pretty close). Can be lazy at times, pretty gifted though.

Roundtree: injured his ankle last night not sure of his status. Athletic, crashes those boards like crazy. Not the best shooter, but can drive to the hoop. Can leap out of the gym. Probably our most consistent freshman so far.

Hare: haven't seen him play. From close friends, can defend with the best of them on the team. So, sorry can't give you much here. Also a lefty.

Evans: Redshirt freshman. Heart of a champion, big, and awkward at times. Also will go balls to the wall. Not many minutes if the other guys stay out of foul trouble.

Bocot: Can't defend. Was one of the top recruits in Derrick Rose's class, till he had grade trouble. Sick offensive skills, ugly shot (but goes in).

Those ten are the most likely suspects that will get massive playing time.

Motion offense, man to man defense. we actually prefer to call it the commotion offense. Will pick you up full court, only trap when the defender on the ball gets screened.

You will get frustrated at times because they won't call fouls when you think they should. But I'm sure we will too :D

So far this year, we have been the tale of two halves. Not sure if it's nerves, or foul trouble (Fay). 1st half struggles, 2nd half solid.

Anything else, feel free to ask.

saluki0483
11-13-2008, 07:20 PM
Thanks for stopping by. It's great to have the perspective of opposing fans. I checked in at the boards and was very impressed with the discussion (esp. the number of folks who shot down any talk of bad officiating as an excuse). Sounds like a passionate and knowledgeable fan base, which is great to see (unfortunately, we're used to Tar Heels :p)

From the little I've seen I LOVE the defensive principles that the Salikis use and it sounds like Lowery has the players to really execute. I'm really looking forward to watching two defensive powerhouses go at it!

Anyway, great to have all of you folks here to join in the discussion.

Edited to add: Special thanks to GoDawgs for that great overview. Young but promising. Sounds like a team on the cusp of really good things.

Register and contribute, it's pretty fun over there.

The younger guys don't have the defensive principals that SIU fans are used to... yet. But, I believe we are playing at a faster pace so our defensive numbers won't be as good this year. I will miss absolutely owning teams and keeping them scoreless for 8,9,10 minutes at a time. But, we are much more athletic than before so we might still be able to do it.

DevilCastDownfromDurham
11-13-2008, 07:24 PM
Sounds like it's a good thing we're getting you so early in the season while guys are still learning the system. Hopefully we can meet again deep in the NCAA's.

GoDawgs
11-13-2008, 07:41 PM
Register and contribute, it's pretty fun over there.

The younger guys don't have the defensive principals that SIU fans are used to... yet. But, I believe we are playing at a faster pace so our defensive numbers won't be as good this year. I will miss absolutely owning teams and keeping them scoreless for 8,9,10 minutes at a time. But, we are much more athletic than before so we might still be able to do it.

Ya I think that can become as good at D, but don't expect this team to hold a lot of teams to 50 or less. Just because they will run the floor a lot more and are much more capable of scoring faster. Unlike in the past you will not see them always run down the shot clock as much. So other teams will get more chances to score then before but we will also score much more.

BD80
11-13-2008, 09:11 PM
A rundown from Jeff Goodman:



... Southern Illinois is considered one of the elite defensive teams in the country.

[UMass point guard Chris] Lowe finished with 10 turnovers and not a single assist last night as Southern Illinois came back to knock off UMass, 80-73, ...

Salukis coach Chris Lowery said that relentless defender Bryan Mullins started on Lowe and also finished. However, he rotated five other guys on Lowe throughout the course of the game in an effort to wear him down. ...

``Bryan is one of the best defenders in the country,” Lowery said. ``He’s unbelievable.”

... big man, Carlton Fay ... wound up finishing with 17 points in just 19 minutes (``He went berserk in the second half,” Lowery said.) ...

``Bryan Mullins has led this team from the beginning,” he said. “They just follow behind him.”

Lowery is also optimistic about this group of freshmen – which includes Kevin Dillard (who saw significant minutes with Mullins in the backcourt), big man Anthony Booker and wing Torres Roundtree.

Roundtree only played five minutes last night and suffered a knee injury. Lowery said he’ll have an MRI today.

``He felt it buckle,” Lowery said. “We’re hoping it’s not torn.”

http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/goodmanonfox

DUKE3042
11-14-2008, 03:14 AM
Hi Godawgs,

I'm glad that the siu fans actually appreciate how good Fay is!!!!

His high school was alittle bit bigger than 60 kids though. But definitely smaller than chicago public league schools or even the better Chicago Catholic League Schools!!! But his school should have won the class A state title if they actually had a half descent coach. You probably don't know, but he was horrible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's amazing that he is so talented and has such a good basketball IQ.

I do agree that he is going to be siu's best player for the next couple of years.

I think that alot of people (fans) just don't get how good some players really are.
Being a hardcore DUKE fan, I think that Jon Scheyer doesn't get the props.......if you will, or the respect that he deserves. Everyone talks about how Henderson is an amazing athlete, but he has so much actual basketball skills and knowledge that he still has to learn.

I've got to stop ranting on.

I think it's going to be a fun game.

GO DUKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

oledawg
11-14-2008, 09:30 AM
one thing that has not been discussed on either board is the fact that former Duke player Chris Carrawell (spelling?) and SIU freshman Torres Roundtree are brothers.

Noteware
11-14-2008, 10:19 AM
Does anybody know the line for the game on Thursday against the Southern Illinois Salukis? An old friend wants to bet sweatshirts on the results (his parents are both profs at So. Ill.), and we can't find the odds. I sure don't want to sign up for any of the online casinos... I can only imagine the SPAM i'd get. Thanks for any help.

SlimSlowSlider
11-14-2008, 10:22 AM
i would think it is far too early for that line to come out.

Noteware
11-14-2008, 10:27 AM
I'm showing my ignorance but my curiosity is taking over... When do the lines usually come out? Given that Duke's a high profile team, will the line come out any earlier than if So. Ill. was playing Campbell?

GoDawgs
11-14-2008, 11:18 AM
Hi Godawgs,

I'm glad that the siu fans actually appreciate how good Fay is!!!!

His high school was alittle bit bigger than 60 kids though. But definitely smaller than chicago public league schools or even the better Chicago Catholic League Schools!!! But his school should have won the class A state title if they actually had a half descent coach. You probably don't know, but he was horrible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's amazing that he is so talented and has such a good basketball IQ.

I do agree that he is going to be siu's best player for the next couple of years.

I think that alot of people (fans) just don't get how good some players really are.
Being a hardcore DUKE fan, I think that Jon Scheyer doesn't get the props.......if you will, or the respect that he deserves. Everyone talks about how Henderson is an amazing athlete, but he has so much actual basketball skills and knowledge that he still has to learn.

I've got to stop ranting on.

I think it's going to be a fun game.

GO DUKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It may have more then 60 but not by much. I grew up in Princeton, which is 20 mins from his high school. I think he has a younger brother playing there now, but he is no as big as Carlton. Don't know how he has been doing. I have to call my Grandpa he loves high school basketball and lives around there.

GoDawgs
11-14-2008, 11:22 AM
Sounds like it's a good thing we're getting you so early in the season while guys are still learning the system. Hopefully we can meet again deep in the NCAA's.

Ya but it would be hard to beat Duke at anytime. And this tournament is great for these kids. They get to see just how good college basketball teams are and how much work they have to do. They also get great experience in tough games before the MVC games.

SALUKI
11-14-2008, 12:18 PM
One thing we do have is a great strength and conditioning program. All of our guys, save a few of the freshman are strong and ready to go head to head physically with the best.

DUKE3042
11-14-2008, 01:22 PM
godawgs,

You're from princeton......I've been there. I know alot of people that went to putnam county and people that live in granville.
Ya, Fay has a younger brother, but he's not as big or as good as Carlton.
It's fun to go to games in that area because it's like the whole town goes to the games. It's like the movie "Hoosiers".

GoDawgs
11-14-2008, 02:55 PM
godawgs,

You're from princeton......I've been there. I know alot of people that went to putnam county and people that live in granville.
Ya, Fay has a younger brother, but he's not as big or as good as Carlton.
It's fun to go to games in that area because it's like the whole town goes to the games. It's like the movie "Hoosiers".

Ya for sure. I graduated in 98 from Princeton. Most my family still live there. Games are fun to go to there. I go to Grad school right now at SIU, but make it back home every now and then. My Mom use to live at Lake Thunderbird which is very close to Granville. Princeton Football games were the best on Friday night followed up by big keg parties at my Dad's shed in the middle of nowhere. We had a six foot long Bar that held two kegs, fun times.

jsaluki
11-15-2008, 03:24 PM
I don't normally join opposing fan boards, but I felt I needed to make an exception. The accounts given by other Saluki members on this board of our team have been pretty accurate. We know what a player we have in Fay and he is by far the most improved on the court from last season.

Many Saluki fans are cautiously optimistic about this season with such a young team on the court. It is the best recruiting class we've ever had, but as you all know, freshman talent can be a little raw at times. I'm looking at this game the same way; cautiously optimistic. I don't think SIU should win, but that is why they play the games. As fans, we're always looking for chances to take on the "big boys" since it is hard to schedule quality games at times because teams will not want to play the Dawgs. It looks like we'll have our chance next week against Duke and then Michigan/UCLA.

Ima Facultiwyfe
11-15-2008, 05:05 PM
The old prof and I are both from Southern Illinois towns and we did a stretch teaching at SIU. Good friends and family still back there. I called back to Carbondale and ordered a flag to fly last year after Duke was out of it.

North Carolina is a beautiful place, but take it from me, the "other Illinois".....that's anything that isn't Chicago....is great and beautiful country. Lots of just plain good people, too. We can look for them to bring it and not back down.

I hope they give us fits and in the end benefit from having played the Devils......but the scoreboard must be in the favor of the royal blue when the buzzer sounds!

Go Duke!

Love, Ima

throatybeard
11-15-2008, 06:01 PM
A quick trip to the Saluki board revealed a few things:

1. They'd love to beat Duke.
2. They think we don't know much about them (true, I guess)
3. They hate Greg Paulus.

Related to the other thread on Duke's brand, we're still a well-recognized villain.

Also, their thread on the game with us has devolved into a bizarre argument about whether it's OK to cheer for more than one school.

jsaluki
11-15-2008, 06:46 PM
Also, their thread on the game with us has devolved into a bizarre argument about whether it's OK to cheer for more than one school.


Don't just lurk...come on over, register, and chat. This may sound biased, but we have a pretty knowledgeable fanbase on http://www.salukitalk.net and one of the newer posters just mentioned how he didn't know who to root for in this one because as a kid, he liked cheering for Duke because he liked the name. This particular poster claims to have two degrees from SIU and says he can't decide...of course he'll catch some grief for that. We're harmless over there and love to talk quality basketball with opposing fans.

saluki0483
11-16-2008, 10:20 AM
Also, their thread on the game with us has devolved into a bizarre argument about whether it's OK to cheer for more than one school.


Not bizarre at all.


Also, looks as if Roundtree will play Thursday. The freshman started the first two games this year. Probably won't start Thursday, as I see Dillard earning his spot back, but alas Roundtree will be playing.

Ima Facultiwyfe
11-16-2008, 02:28 PM
Don't just lurk...come on over, register, and chat. This may sound biased, but we have a pretty knowledgeable fanbase on http://www.salukitalk.net and one of the newer posters just mentioned how he didn't know who to root for in this one because as a kid, he liked cheering for Duke because he liked the name. This particular poster claims to have two degrees from SIU and says he can't decide...of course he'll catch some grief for that. We're harmless over there and love to talk quality basketball with opposing fans.

After posting such nice words about fellow Southern Illinoisians (see above) I decided to take jsaluki up on his invitation to salukitalk. Went over there where I expected to find posts from a "pretty knowledgeable fanbase" that was "harmless".

For the most part that's not what I found. Lots of pretty ugly hate over there, bless their hearts. I think I'll just stay home from now on.

Love, Ima

-jk
11-17-2008, 09:59 AM
After posting such nice words about fellow Southern Illinoisians (see above) I decided to take jsaluki up on his invitation to salukitalk. Went over there where I expected to find posts from a "pretty knowledgeable fanbase" that was "harmless".

For the most part that's not what I found. Lots of pretty ugly hate over there, bless their hearts. I think I'll just stay home from now on.

Love, Ima

The SIU fans seem (understandably) psyched to play us after yesterday's game. I imagine K will keep the team from looking past them.

The early ranking systems (http://www.mratings.com/cb/compare.htm) have SIU around 50 and RI around 100. (At this point, though, they're made mostly from last year's leftovers and WAGs.)

-jk

GoDawgs
11-17-2008, 11:28 AM
This should be a good game. Watched 2 games of Duke this year and seen all of the SIU games. Both teams match up well against each other.

Fay vs. Singler: This is a big match up both are very similar players, both are 6'8" and can play a inside/outside game. Both very capable of knocking down 3 pointers. Singler is a little quicker and the better dribbler. Fay is a little stronger and better on the post. This is a key match-up to watch. If I am SIU I try to get the ball to Fay low right out the gate and maybe pick up a couple fouls on Singler. If I am Duke I would want to do about the same but I would tell Singler to drive on Fay and try a pick up a couple quick ones as well.

Mullins vs. Scheyer: This should be a great match-up as well. For SIU to win Mullins must contain Scheyer with out sending him to line a lot. Scheyer is the better scorer of the two but Mullins better on the D-end. Mullins was the MVC DPY last year, so I hope he can contain Scheyer some what.

After those two match-ups it could just come down too which teams other players step up. Could it be Dillard for SIU or Smith for Duke. Maybe Booker or Thomas. Anyway I think this will be a hard fought game between to well coached teams that could go down to the buzzer.

Indoor66
11-17-2008, 11:47 AM
This should be a good game. Watched 2 games of Duke this year and seen all of the SIU games. Both teams match up well against each other.

Fay vs. Singler: This is a big match up both are very similar players, both are 6'8" and can play a inside/outside game. Both very capable of knocking down 3 pointers. Singler is a little quicker and the better dribbler. Fay is a little stronger and better on the post. This is a key match-up to watch. If I am SIU I try to get the ball to Fay low right out the gate and maybe pick up a couple fouls on Singler. If I am Duke I would want to do about the same but I would tell Singler to drive on Fay and try a pick up a couple quick ones as well.

Mullins vs. Scheyer: This should be a great match-up as well. For SIU to win Mullins must contain Scheyer with out sending him to line a lot. Scheyer is the better scorer of the two but Mullins better on the D-end. Mullins was the MVC DPY last year, so I hope he can contain Scheyer some what.

After those two match-ups it could just come down too which teams other players step up. Could it be Dillard for SIU or Smith for Duke. Maybe Booker or Thomas. Anyway I think this will be a hard fought game between to well coached teams that could go down to the buzzer.

You forgot Henderson and the bench! Duke by 15.

GoDawgs
11-17-2008, 12:26 PM
You forgot Henderson and the bench! Duke by 15.

I mentioned it could be anyone in the last paragraph. I did not mention Henerson by name he is a starter too. Henderson tops Clemmons but I also did not mention Boyle who tops Zoubek. Bench is pretty close SIU goes a little deeper with similar talent but also a lot less experience with all the Fresh. I guy that I really could have a big game is Booker if he plays like he can and not a scared Fresh, at times he has looked great and others not so good. Anyway I don't see a 15 points win by either team as both teams match up good. and they are both solid D- teams. Anyway best of luck.

jsaluki
11-17-2008, 05:26 PM
After posting such nice words about fellow Southern Illinoisians (see above) I decided to take jsaluki up on his invitation to salukitalk. Went over there where I expected to find posts from a "pretty knowledgeable fanbase" that was "harmless".

For the most part that's not what I found. Lots of pretty ugly hate over there, bless their hearts. I think I'll just stay home from now on.

Love, Ima


Well, Ima, I'm sorry you didn't enjoy your stay. The comments I made are true, but being a long time and frequent member on the board, I know more of the posters and us SalukiTalkers know for the most part which fools to ignore over there. I can see where you might get a bad taste on a first impression. Quite alright, you don't have to come back. After all, you are a Duke fan.:p



On a serious note though, I have to basically concur with GoDawgs about it coming down to matchups. I can still picture our guys getting a little starry-eyed because we're playing in MSG against Duke. Someone on SalukiTalk said it best in that Lowery shouldn't let any of our players on the bus/plane that don't think they can beat Duke. I don't see this game getting outside 10 points either way after studying about Duke a little more. I'd still give the nod to Duke, but I feel a little better about SIU's chances after my homework.

I have a question for you Duke fans: It always seems like teams get "up" for playing Duke. Are there teams (besides UNC) that Duke gets "up" for playing?

mgtr
11-17-2008, 06:08 PM
I have a question for you Duke fans: It always seems like teams get "up" for playing Duke. Are there teams (besides UNC) that Duke gets "up" for playing?

We get "up" for every game. If we did not, Coach K would have a lot of players sitting. So, we will be "up" for you.

-jk
11-17-2008, 06:37 PM
We get "up" for every game. If we did not, Coach K would have a lot of players sitting. So, we will be "up" for you.

Except when we aren't up. I seem to recall an unusual starting lineup for a Wake game.

-jk

Salukis2008
11-18-2008, 10:36 AM
SIU FR guard Torres Roundtree is the younger brother of Chris Carrawell, just a little interesting fact.

77devil
11-18-2008, 11:02 AM
Well, I know more of the posters and us SalukiTalkers know for the most part which fools to ignore over there.

I have a question. What in the world is a Salulki?

Indoor66
11-18-2008, 11:04 AM
I have a question. What in the world is a Salulki?

Check it out here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saluki).

Wander
11-18-2008, 11:09 AM
With all due respect I think you Saluki fans are underestimating the talent gap between the two teams. I expect the Duke players to make a living at the FT line, as SIU has been consistently awful in letting opponents get there. I'm pretty sure SIU can beat Michigan though.

Kedsy
11-18-2008, 11:26 AM
I have a question for you Duke fans: It always seems like teams get "up" for playing Duke. Are there teams (besides UNC) that Duke gets "up" for playing?

This is a fair question. Coach K is a great motivator, so the team is usually mentally prepared to play every game at a high level. In recent years, however, there has been the occasional game where the team comes out flat and one possible explanation is they were not "up" for their opponent.

After the Rhode Island game, however, I suspect Duke will be "up" for SIU. We won't have to wait long to find out.

GoDawgs
11-18-2008, 12:23 PM
With all due respect I think you Saluki fans are underestimating the talent gap between the two teams. I expect the Duke players to make a living at the FT line, as SIU has been consistently awful in letting opponents get there. I'm pretty sure SIU can beat Michigan though.

Well Kansas fans said the same, that we were no match for them and they got lucky to win as SIU should have won that game. And this team has more natural talent then any team I have seen play but they are young. That and we don't let people get to the line by making bad fouls or cause they get beat off the dribble and try to make a desperation play that usually leads to a foul. Trust me the fouls will be because our players play intense physical D and up in the face of players, diving at all loose balls. SIU is know as "Floor burn U". SIU has always been a very tough team to blow out because of this style, except some last year just because we really lack anyone that could score from the outside out than Mullins and he is a past first PG. I think this will be a very close game and hard fought.

One thing I can also tell you as you guys have the harder match up than UCLA. Even if you win you may have what the fans call the "Saluki Hangover". It's become a trend that teams look dead or worn out when playing games within a couple days after playing SIU because of the intense D that makes your players play every time up and down the floor. Kansas' coach Self even said that after the SIU game his players were worn out and that may have been the hardest they ever had to work in a single game and he said that it may have effected them against UCLA the next game.

ChicagoSaluki
11-18-2008, 02:22 PM
I guarantee that SIU will be better conditioned and physically stronger as a team than Duke. SIU will battle harder than any team you face all year and will wear down your starters forcing you to go deep into your bench.

Win or lose, the Blue Devils will have THE Saluki Hangover!

Hope your guys have been in the weight room. If not, Friday will be miserable for them and they will lose to UCLA/Michigan.

ChicagoSaluki
11-18-2008, 02:32 PM
With all due respect I think you Saluki fans are underestimating the talent gap between the two teams. I expect the Duke players to make a living at the FT line, as SIU has been consistently awful in letting opponents get there. I'm pretty sure SIU can beat Michigan though.

I am sure there is a talent gap but, as I said below, I guarantee that SIU will be better conditioned and physically stronger as a team than Duke. This will not be a cakewalk by any means. Win or lose on Thursday, on Friday you will witness firsthand what THE Saluki Hangover is. :)

Indoor66
11-18-2008, 02:32 PM
I guarantee that SIU will be better conditioned and physically stronger as a team than Duke. SIU will battle harder than any team you face all year and will wear down your starters forcing you to go deep into your bench.

Win or lose, the Blue Devils will have THE Saluki Hangover!

Hope your guys have been in the weight room. If not, Friday will be miserable for them and they will lose to UCLA/Michigan.

That's a lot of woofing, saluki.

ChicagoSaluki
11-18-2008, 02:35 PM
That's a lot of woofing, saluki.

Bring it.........my friend.

JDev
11-18-2008, 02:36 PM
I guarantee that SIU will be better conditioned and physically stronger as a team than Duke. SIU will battle harder than any team you face all year and will wear down your starters forcing you to go deep into your bench.

Win or lose, the Blue Devils will have THE Saluki Hangover!

Hope your guys have been in the weight room. If not, Friday will be miserable for them and they will lose to UCLA/Michigan.

Your last comment is essentially saying Duke will beat your squad and advance to Friday. And before you say that SIU is the best anything Duke will see this year, try to keep in mind that Duke has the unanimous preseason national favorite on their schedule twice, with a potential third meeting. SIU is not the best at anything of the teams Duke will face.

JDev
11-18-2008, 02:37 PM
Your last comment is essentially saying Duke will beat your squad and advance to Friday. And before you say that SIU is the best anything Duke will see this year, try to keep in mind that Duke has the unanimous preseason national favorite on their schedule twice, with a potential third meeting. SIU is not the best at anything of the teams Duke will face.

That being said, I expect a great game, and I expect the better team to win. I'll let you figure out who that is.

Wander
11-18-2008, 02:41 PM
Well Kansas fans said the same, that we were no match for them and they got lucky to win as SIU should have won that game. And this team has more natural talent then any team I have seen play but they are young. That and we don't let people get to the line by making bad fouls or cause they get beat off the dribble and try to make a desperation play that usually leads to a foul. Trust me the fouls will be because our players play intense physical D and up in the face of players, diving at all loose balls.

Most aspects of your defense are excellent, but for whatever reason, you guys are atrocious at keeping your opponents off the free throw line. If that doesn't improve Thursday night, Duke is going to win by double digits.

And the SIU team that almost beat Kansas didn't struggle with Division 2 teams. For what it's worth, I picked SIU to go to the Elite 8 that year - I was completely sure you would take Va Tech and whatever first round team you played and reasonably confident you could take Kansas.

ChicagoSaluki
11-18-2008, 02:51 PM
Your last comment is essentially saying Duke will beat your squad and advance to Friday. And before you say that SIU is the best anything Duke will see this year, try to keep in mind that Duke has the unanimous preseason national favorite on their schedule twice, with a potential third meeting. SIU is not the best at anything of the teams Duke will face.

There are two games on Friday. The championship and the consulation. I guarantee that Duke will be playing in one of them and that its players will be hurting from head to toe. Whatever game Duke plays in on Friday, it will lose.

SIU may not be the most talented team in the country but there is not another team in the country that plays harder from the opening whistle to the final buzzer.

I would love to see Duke come to the Arena in Carbondale........I am sure it won't happen any time soon because the risk of losing is way too high.

quickgtp
11-18-2008, 02:56 PM
With all due respect, and again I am saying with all due respect (LOL), Duke takes the oppositions best game every game. Teams like Duke, UNC, Kansas, etc. take the best punches from each team they play, game in and game out. I am quite confident that we won't suffer from any hangover win or lose. This is college basketball; any team can win any game on any given night, in any given arena. I believe we will win by 9-14 points, and it will be the typical hard fought Duke game.

ChicagoSaluki
11-18-2008, 03:00 PM
With all due respect, and again I am saying with all due respect (LOL), Duke takes the oppositions best game every game. Teams like Duke, UNC, Kansas, etc. take the best punches from each team they play, game in and game out. I am quite confident that we won't suffer from any hangover win or lose. This is college basketball; any team can win any game on any given night, in any given arena. I believe we will win by 9-14 points, and it will be the typical hard fought Duke game.


We don't need respect but thanks anyway. :D The punches Duke takes from other teams are nothing like the one it will take from SIU. Trust me.

JDev
11-18-2008, 03:00 PM
You seem to be buying in to the old and inaccurate stereotype that Duke is a "soft" team. They are not. They can more than hold their own physically, which you will see, and on top of that, they have the better basketball players. That usually counts for something. There is no doubt that SIU is talented and it will be a good game. SIU will be up and give their best game to Duke, but Duke is accustomed to getting everyone's best game, and RI was a good game for them as far as intensity level. Players come to Duke because they relish the fact that they get everyone's best, and must always bring it.

BlueintheFace
11-18-2008, 03:03 PM
We don't need respect but thanks anyway. :D The punches Duke takes from other teams are nothing like the one it will take from SIU. Trust me.

I like your enthusiasm... you're a lively little fan, but I have to remind you of something. If there is one program more experienced in taking the opponents' best shot than all the others... well you know. You go up against them this week. Should be a fun one.

jsaluki
11-18-2008, 03:07 PM
The level of hasty comments seem to be rising a bit. Any Saluki fan that knows their Dawgs knows we can compete in this game and it may very well come down to the wire. Any Saluki fan also knows we never blow out competition, and are rarely blown out ourselves.

This will be a very physical game on both ends. By no means is Duke soft, and I'm fairly positive they will play other teams that are just as physical as SIU this season. Either way, I think this will be the better of the two semi-final games. Both teams, regardless of the outcome will be tired on Friday for their second game.

As I said earlier in the thread, many Saluki fans are cautiously optimistic about our season, and this game would be a microcosm of that. I'm not going to make any outlandish comments about how you Duke fans will know what a "Saluki hangover" is after this game, or that you'll know what "Floorburn U" is after this game, but it will be a physical game. Both teams play physical basketball, and I'd give the nod to Duke right now at the free throw line.

GoDawgs
11-18-2008, 03:10 PM
Your last comment is essentially saying Duke will beat your squad and advance to Friday. And before you say that SIU is the best anything Duke will see this year, try to keep in mind that Duke has the unanimous preseason national favorite on their schedule twice, with a potential third meeting. SIU is not the best at anything of the teams Duke will face.

I don't think you understand what he is saying. Yes UNC is much better but the style they play does not grind and ware down your players like SIU does. SIU plays very physical at times during the game you will be screaming at the refs because SIU players will be bumping, hitting and in there faces all the time up and down the whole court. UNC plays a much more finesse game while SIU play very physical and tries to ware you down. Its not about who is better but about style. Trust me Duke's players will feel more worn down and beaten up after playing SIU then UNC. Almost every team has said that after playing SIU they felt worn down and battered whether they won by one point or by 15.

ChicagoSaluki
11-18-2008, 03:13 PM
You seem to be buying in to the old and inaccurate stereotype that Duke is a "soft" team. They are not. They can more than hold their own physically, which you will see, and on top of that, they have the better basketball players. That usually counts for something. There is no doubt that SIU is talented and it will be a good game. SIU will be up and give their best game to Duke, but Duke is accustomed to getting everyone's best game, and RI was a good game for them as far as intensity level. Players come to Duke because they relish the fact that they get everyone's best, and must always bring it.

To the contrary, my friend JDev. I do not believe that Duke is soft. It has tons of talent and is physical ...... but it has never seen, and probably will never again see, anything like the physical play of SIU (unless, of course, the two meet in the tournament). So as I said earlier ....... Bring it .............and we will see.

DevilCastDownfromDurham
11-18-2008, 03:13 PM
I think this game will be very interesting because both teams are still trying to gel and build themselves into a cohesive unit. SIU is incorporating a bunch of talented but very young guys and Duke is revamping our team at two major positions (PG and C) and still seems to be finding an offensive identity.

These are also two of the most aggressive and physical defensive units in the nation. I think Duke has more talent (at least per most recruiting rankings I've seen) but SIU has a huge chip on their shoulder and will bring their A+ game.

If I had to place a bet I'd probably pick Duke based on the talent differential, but I expect this to be a close and hard-fought game until the end. I think both of these teams will look much more polished by March, but I expect championship effort from every player on the floor on Thursday. Looking forward to a very good game and I hope both teams can grab a win on Friday. These are two teams that both deserve a ton of respect and our respective RPI's can only benefit for the other's continued success.

GoDawgs
11-18-2008, 03:15 PM
You seem to be buying in to the old and inaccurate stereotype that Duke is a "soft" team. They are not. They can more than hold their own physically, which you will see, and on top of that, they have the better basketball players. That usually counts for something. There is no doubt that SIU is talented and it will be a good game. SIU will be up and give their best game to Duke, but Duke is accustomed to getting everyone's best game, and RI was a good game for them as far as intensity level. Players come to Duke because they relish the fact that they get everyone's best, and must always bring it.

Oh I agree. I am just saying who ever wins Duke or SIU that on Friday they will be more worn down from this game because of the physical styles then UCLA/Mich because that game will be more of a finesse game then the Duke-SIU game.

ChicagoSaluki
11-18-2008, 03:15 PM
I don't think you understand what he is saying. Yes UNC is much better but the style they play does not grind and ware down your players like SIU does. SIU plays very physical at times during the game you will be screaming at the refs because SIU players will be bumping, hitting and in there faces all the time up and down the whole court. UNC plays a much more finesse game while SIU play very physical and tries to ware you down. Its not about who is better but about style. Trust me Duke's players will feel more worn down and beaten up after playing SIU then UNC. Almost every team has said that after playing SIU they felt worn down and battered whether they won by one point or by 15.

AMEN

ChicagoSaluki
11-18-2008, 03:17 PM
I like your enthusiasm... you're a lively little fan, but I have to remind you of something. If there is one program more experienced in taking the opponents' best shot than all the others... well you know. You go up against them this week. Should be a fun one.

It will fun .... that's for sure.

Cavlaw
11-18-2008, 03:17 PM
I think this game will be very interesting because both teams are still trying to gel and build themselves into a cohesive unit. SIU is incorporating a bunch of talented but very young guys and Duke is revamping our team at two major positions (PG and C) and still seems to be finding an offensive identity.

These are also two of the most aggressive and physical defensive units in the nation. I think Duke has more talent (at least per most recruiting rankings I've seen) but SIU has a huge chip on their shoulder and will bring their A+ game.

If I had to place a bet I'd probably pick Duke based on the talent differential, but I expect this to be a close and hard-fought game until the end. I think both of these teams will look much more polished by March, but I expect championship effort from every player on the floor on Thursday. Looking forward to a very good game and I hope both teams can grab a win on Friday. These are two teams that both deserve a ton of respect and our respective RPI's can only benefit for the other's continued success.
Stop that! Reasonable analysis and excitment to see the game without revealing a fervent bloodlust on the part of your favored team clearly no longer has any place in this thread.

ChicagoSaluki
11-18-2008, 03:21 PM
I think this game will be very interesting because both teams are still trying to gel and build themselves into a cohesive unit. SIU is incorporating a bunch of talented but very young guys and Duke is revamping our team at two major positions (PG and C) and still seems to be finding an offensive identity.

These are also two of the most aggressive and physical defensive units in the nation. I think Duke has more talent (at least per most recruiting rankings I've seen) but SIU has a huge chip on their shoulder and will bring their A+ game.

If I had to place a bet I'd probably pick Duke based on the talent differential, but I expect this to be a close and hard-fought game until the end. I think both of these teams will look much more polished by March, but I expect championship effort from every player on the floor on Thursday. Looking forward to a very good game and I hope both teams can grab a win on Friday. These are two teams that both deserve a ton of respect and our respective RPI's can only benefit for the other's continued success.


AMEN again. Thanks for the comments.

ChicagoSaluki
11-18-2008, 03:25 PM
Stop that! Reasonable analysis and excitment to see the game without revealing a fervent bloodlust on the part of your favored team clearly no longer has any place in this thread.


That's funny

GoDawgs
11-18-2008, 03:26 PM
I think this game will be very interesting because both teams are still trying to gel and build themselves into a cohesive unit. SIU is incorporating a bunch of talented but very young guys and Duke is revamping our team at two major positions (PG and C) and still seems to be finding an offensive identity.

These are also two of the most aggressive and physical defensive units in the nation. I think Duke has more talent (at least per most recruiting rankings I've seen) but SIU has a huge chip on their shoulder and will bring their A+ game.

If I had to place a bet I'd probably pick Duke based on the talent differential, but I expect this to be a close and hard-fought game until the end. I think both of these teams will look much more polished by March, but I expect championship effort from every player on the floor on Thursday. Looking forward to a very good game and I hope both teams can grab a win on Friday. These are two teams that both deserve a ton of respect and our respective RPI's can only benefit for the other's continued success.

This I think is spot on right here. Dukes talent level is a little higher, that's why I think is so important for SIU to try and go down low right from the start were they have a slight advantage. I think the Fay/Singler is key. Siu needs to get the ball to Fay on the post and try to pick u a couple quick fouls on Singler as Fay is better on the post. But I think if Duke is smart they have Singler attack Fay on the dribble and try to get fouls on Fay as Singler is the better ball handling/quicker. For SIU to have a chance Fay can not be on the bench a lot so they must rotate good for help if Singler is going to the bucket and not let Fay pick up fouls.

SMO
11-18-2008, 03:27 PM
To the contrary, my friend JDev. I do not believe that Duke is soft. It has tons of talent and is physical ...... but it has never seen, and probably will never again see, anything like the physical play of SIU (unless, of course, the two meet in the tournament). So as I said earlier ....... Bring it .............and we will see.

The amount of chest-thumping from the Saluki fans is incredible! You would think Duke is about to play the New York Knicks of the Ewing, Oakley, Mason era the way some of you are talking. You'll look like a bunch of long-eared galoots if your team gets rolled over.

ChicagoSaluki
11-18-2008, 03:31 PM
The amount of chest-thumping from the Saluki fans is incredible! You would think Duke is about to play the New York Knicks of the Ewing, Oakley, Mason era the way some of you are talking. You'll look like a bunch of long-eared galoots if your team gets rolled over.

The apathy of Duke fans is incredible. The chest thumping is what makes college BB so fun. If SIU gets rolled over it will not bother me in the least because everyone expects it. On the other hand, if Duke loses ...... oh my god the sky will fall.

wtsnap
11-18-2008, 03:32 PM
I hope they come out playing physical, especially with Singler. From what I've seen of him over last year he really rises to physical challenges and plays with a crazy fire.

throatybeard
11-18-2008, 03:32 PM
I'm pretty sure I've already got the Saluki hangover as a result of this thread.

As for the possibility we'd ever come to Carbondale, it isn't the potential for losing that is the limiting factor. It's that our Coach/AD refuse to play at any scheduled OOC road venue outside of tournaments or events like ACC-B10. I'm reminded of Homer telling Lisa "if we didn't quiet down for the cops, what chance do you think you have, sweetie?" I lament this, but we can't even get something like UNC-Kentucky done, much less something like Duke at SIU. Apparently we have to play four games a year in DC/NY/NJ/Chicago at neutral sites. Oh well. It's not a new complaint.

ChicagoSaluki
11-18-2008, 03:35 PM
I'm pretty sure I've already got the Saluki hangover as a result of this thread.

Now you are seeing the light.

ChicagoSaluki
11-18-2008, 03:37 PM
I hope they come out playing physical, especially with Singler. From what I've seen of him over last year he really rises to physical challenges and plays with a crazy fire.

We like crazy fire.

SMO
11-18-2008, 03:37 PM
The apathy of Duke fans is incredible. The chest thumping is what makes college BB so fun. If SIU gets rolled over it will not bother me in the least because everyone expects it. On the other hand, if Duke loses ...... oh my god the sky will fall.

Apathy...hmmm...ever seen a game at Cameron? Notice how many people are on this board? Don't confuse objectivity with apathy.

jsaluki
11-18-2008, 03:45 PM
The amount of chest-thumping from the Saluki fans is incredible! You would think Duke is about to play the New York Knicks of the Ewing, Oakley, Mason era the way some of you are talking. You'll look like a bunch of long-eared galoots if your team gets rolled over.

SMO, the only real chest thumping is coming from this ChicagoSaluki character. Which, I just did a quick search on salukitalk to find a "chicagosaluki" with only three total posts...not what I'd call a regular contributor. I don't like the brashness anymore than you, and this is coming from a Saluki fan!

Outside of the East Coast, many programs around the country know of SIU. The Salukis often times get the "A" games from other teams because they are seen as the team to beat in our respective corner of college basketball. Don't read that and see me comparing SIU's program to Duke...we're not at that level yet...but many SIU fans are hopeful of a continued rise in national exposure and prominence (think Gonzaga), especially in light of our most recent recruiting class.

I like the approach of letting the bigger teams automatically feel they're better...doesn't bother me because on paper it is true. This is why the games are played on the court. I can easily see either team winning on Thursday, but in no way am I going to say 100% either way that SIU or Duke will win. I'd tip my bet to Duke, but pull for the dark horse in SIU.

ChicagoSaluki
11-18-2008, 03:45 PM
Apathy...hmmm...ever seen a game at Cameron? Notice how many people are on this board? Don't confuse objectivity with apathy.

Then lets see some chest thumping from you.

ChicagoSaluki
11-18-2008, 03:47 PM
SMO, the only real chest thumping is coming from this ChicagoSaluki character. Which, I just did a quick search on salukitalk to find a "chicagosaluki" with only three total posts...not what I'd call a regular contributor. I don't like the brashness anymore than you, and this is coming from a Saluki fan!

Outside of the East Coast, many programs around the country know of SIU. The Salukis often times get the "A" games from other teams because they are seen as the team to beat in our respective corner of college basketball. Don't read that and see me comparing SIU's program to Duke...we're not at that level yet...but many SIU fans are hopeful of a continued rise in national exposure and prominence (think Gonzaga), especially in light of our most recent recruiting class.

I like the approach of letting the bigger teams automatically feel they're better...doesn't bother me because on paper it is true. This is why the games are played on the court. I can easily see either team winning on Thursday, but in no way am I going to say 100% either way that SIU or Duke will win. I'd tip my bet to Duke, but pull for the dark horse in SIU.



Not the same chicagosaluki.

jsaluki
11-18-2008, 03:48 PM
I like our board better...we have an ignore feature for annoying posters.

ChicagoSaluki
11-18-2008, 03:49 PM
Not the same chicagosaluki.

My "brashness" started a nice little lively discussion over here. Before that it was like sipping wine at the country club.

SMO
11-18-2008, 03:49 PM
SMO, the only real chest thumping is coming from this ChicagoSaluki character. Which, I just did a quick search on salukitalk to find a "chicagosaluki" with only three total posts...not what I'd call a regular contributor. I don't like the brashness anymore than you, and this is coming from a Saluki fan!

Outside of the East Coast, many programs around the country know of SIU. The Salukis often times get the "A" games from other teams because they are seen as the team to beat in our respective corner of college basketball. Don't read that and see me comparing SIU's program to Duke...we're not at that level yet...but many SIU fans are hopeful of a continued rise in national exposure and prominence (think Gonzaga), especially in light of our most recent recruiting class.

I like the approach of letting the bigger teams automatically feel they're better...doesn't bother me because on paper it is true. This is why the games are played on the court. I can easily see either team winning on Thursday, but in no way am I going to say 100% either way that SIU or Duke will win. I'd tip my bet to Duke, but pull for the dark horse in SIU.

As a Richmond Spider I appreciate that perspective and am anticipating a good game.

GoDawgs
11-18-2008, 03:50 PM
The amount of chest-thumping from the Saluki fans is incredible! You would think Duke is about to play the New York Knicks of the Ewing, Oakley, Mason era the way some of you are talking. You'll look like a bunch of long-eared galoots if your team gets rolled over.

How is that? Were are Saluki fans guaranteeing a win. Were have we said we will win by 15 or 20. What we are saying this will not be a easy win. How is that chest pumping. Its what we expect and what usually happens, SIU will play a close hard fought game. Outside of last years team which was not near as talented as this years to or ones before that we don't get blown out. Just like all those Kansas' fans say easy game we win by 20, we were right about that game. Although Duke fans have been much more respectful. How is feeling that we have a chance to win and that we will play you tough and it will be physical draining game thinking anything like you just said. Sorry that we don't think Duke is a unbeatable team, we are not Dicky V were Duke is god. Again I sorry for showing some faith in my team.

Cell-R
11-18-2008, 03:56 PM
Then lets see some chest thumping from you.

The difference between Duke fans and SIU fans is not the intensity or desire to win. To be honest I would say that Duke probably has one of the most intense fan bases to be found in the world of college basketball. The fact that we can step back and look at a basketball game without trying to degrade the other team, or incite an argument, does in no way mean that we are apathetic or that we cannot "Chest Thump" when the occasion arises. Trust me, we can :D

GoDawgs
11-18-2008, 03:57 PM
Apathy...hmmm...ever seen a game at Cameron? Notice how many people are on this board? Don't confuse objectivity with apathy.

Ya games at Cameron are great but this board does not have that many people at all. Salukitalk has tons more people posting. Honest question is this the most posted on board for Duke basketball. Or is it kind of just spread out between many boards. I know Duke has more fans that why I think maybe there are multiple boards that Duke fans post at. Us Saluki fans all go to Saluki talk cause that is really the only good boards for us.

jsaluki
11-18-2008, 03:58 PM
A question for you I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.ies...there is a discussion going on over at SalukiTalk about who we should have guarding Singler. SIU has used quicker, more defensive-minded guards in the past to guard bigger guys that can shoot outside, but I'm not sure that would be effective in this case. Oh, maybe two questions in one...should SIU worry more about Singler or Scheyer? I can see a case for either.

SMO
11-18-2008, 03:59 PM
How is that? Were are Saluki fans guaranteeing a win. Were have we said we will win by 15 or 20. What we are saying this will not be a easy win. How is that chest pumping. Its what we expect and what usually happens, SIU will play a close hard fought game. Outside of last years team which was not near as talented as this years to or ones before that we don't get blown out. Just like all those Kansas' fans say easy game we win by 20, we were right about that game. Although Duke fans have been much more respectful. How is feeling that we have a chance to win and that we will play you tough and it will be physical draining game thinking anything like you just said. Sorry that we don't think Duke is a unbeatable team, we are not Dicky V were Duke is god. Again I sorry for showing some faith in my team.

Well, I didn't accuse anyone of saying they'd win by 15-20. Read some of ChicagoSaluki's posts regarding SIU's physicality. You would think he's talking about one of the most dominating forces on the planet. Those are strong statements. If SIU doesn't come close to living up to them that poster will look silly. That's all I said. Your strawman attacks in this post are unnecessary.

jsaluki
11-18-2008, 04:00 PM
Interesting...I guess playful name calling is a no-no on the beloved Duke site...:rolleyes:

JDev
11-18-2008, 04:01 PM
Oh I agree. I am just saying who ever wins Duke or SIU that on Friday they will be more worn down from this game because of the physical styles then UCLA/Mich because that game will be more of a finesse game then the Duke-SIU game.

I think that is a fair and accurate statement.

Cell-R
11-18-2008, 04:04 PM
A question for you I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.ies...there is a discussion going on over at SalukiTalk about who we should have guarding Singler. SIU has used quicker, more defensive-minded guards in the past to guard bigger guys that can shoot outside, but I'm not sure that would be effective in this case. Oh, maybe two questions in one...should SIU worry more about Singler or Scheyer? I can see a case for either.

Apparently you're a real wanker for saying that.
Haha :)

Based on statistics you should be worried more about Singler, but obviously Scheyer is a real threat as well. The biggest threat won't come from just one of them, it will come when they are working together and playing off of each other.

jsaluki
11-18-2008, 04:06 PM
Apparently you're a real wanker for saying that.
Haha :)

Based on statistics you should be worried more about Singler, but obviously Scheyer is a real threat as well. The biggest threat won't come from just one of them, it will come when they are working together and playing off of each other.



I would agree with that (no, not the wanker part!:D). In the past against certain teams, SIU has taken the approach of shutting down one particular player that may do great damage, and forcing the other players on the team to beat SIU. It has worked well in the past...I can't wait to see the matchup of Scheyer/Mullins and most likely Singler/Fay.

JDev
11-18-2008, 04:09 PM
From the way the SIU fans describe their team and how they like to play defense, it seems to me that how this game is officiated could be a huge factor. If the refs are calling it tight that might not bode well for a SIU team that seems to have trouble keeping the opposing teams off the free throw line. Duke has long made it policy to make more free throws than the other team attmepts. If it is called closely and Duke gets to the line a lot that would probably mean that important SIU players are dealing with foul trouble as well. Could be an interesting factor in what looks like a really good game.

GoDawgs
11-18-2008, 04:11 PM
Well, I didn't accuse anyone of saying they'd win by 15-20. Read some of ChicagoSaluki's posts regarding SIU's physicality. You would think he's talking about one of the most dominating forces on the planet. Those are strong statements. If SIU doesn't come close to living up to them that poster will look silly. That's all I said. Your strawman attacks in this post are unnecessary.

Sorry did not mean to attack you and I understand what you are saying about ChicagoSaluki's posts. But I trying explaining what he was talking about earlyer, as I think some of you guys are taking some of what he saying the wrong way. He does not mean that were physicaly more stronger then other teams are more gifted. But the style that we play will take a toll on any team. Its just more physically draining to play the style that we play then say UNC. Nothing to do with talent or who is better. But it also takes its toll on are players as well. Hope that makes since don't kwno if that was the best way to explain it.

Oh and I kind of expect Saluki fans to be pumped/hyped up for this game. I know its just a game for you guys but this is a big deal for us Saluki fans we don't get to play teams like Duke very often at all. So there will be a lot of overly excited Saluki fans on here this week, sorry guys.

GoDawgs
11-18-2008, 04:16 PM
A question for you I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.ies...there is a discussion going on over at SalukiTalk about who we should have guarding Singler. SIU has used quicker, more defensive-minded guards in the past to guard bigger guys that can shoot outside, but I'm not sure that would be effective in this case. Oh, maybe two questions in one...should SIU worry more about Singler or Scheyer? I can see a case for either.

I think Fay is on him to start as I said this could be a key match up. As Fay is better on the post while Singler is better outside. If Fay can't handle him I think a guy that might be good to put on him is Ryan Hare. Hare will be giving about 4 inches but he is a strong physical guard who is good at d and a very good rebounder for a guard.

SMO
11-18-2008, 04:17 PM
Sorry did not mean to attack you and I understand what you are saying about ChicagoSaluki's posts. But I trying explaining what he was talking about earlyer, as I think some of you guys are taking some of what he saying the wrong way. He does not mean that were physicaly more stronger then other teams are more gifted. But the style that we play will take a toll on any team. Its just more physically draining to play the style that we play then say UNC. Nothing to do with talent or who is better. But it also takes its toll on are players as well. Hope that makes since don't kwno if that was the best way to explain it.

Oh and I kind of expect Saluki fans to be pumped/hyped up for this game. I know its just a game for you guys but this is a big deal for us Saluki fans we don't get to play teams like Duke very often at all. So there will be a lot of overly excited Saluki fans on here this week, sorry guys.

I'm definitely interested to see if they live up to the hype.

Cavlaw
11-18-2008, 04:28 PM
SMO, the only real chest thumping is coming from this ChicagoSaluki character. Which, I just did a quick search on salukitalk to find a "chicagosaluki" with only three total posts...not what I'd call a regular contributor. I don't like the brashness anymore than you, and this is coming from a Saluki fan!

Outside of the East Coast, many programs around the country know of SIU. The Salukis often times get the "A" games from other teams because they are seen as the team to beat in our respective corner of college basketball. Don't read that and see me comparing SIU's program to Duke...we're not at that level yet...but many SIU fans are hopeful of a continued rise in national exposure and prominence (think Gonzaga), especially in light of our most recent recruiting class.

I like the approach of letting the bigger teams automatically feel they're better...doesn't bother me because on paper it is true. This is why the games are played on the court. I can easily see either team winning on Thursday, but in no way am I going to say 100% either way that SIU or Duke will win. I'd tip my bet to Duke, but pull for the dark horse in SIU.
Erm, Duke may be located on the east coast, but it's a school that draws students from across the country (and around the world). A lot of students come from the Chicago area, and a lot of us are familiar with SIU (quite probably over a longer timeframe than most of the Salukis coming here to post this week).

SIU has also been on the national stage making the tournament, playing in the MVC tournament, and participating in the BracketBuster, along with other high profile games over the years.

All of this talk about SIU coming out of nowhere to surprise Duke with superior play is absurd. SIU is a solid program that everyone who follows NCAA ball is familiar with.

GoDawgs
11-18-2008, 04:31 PM
I'm definitely interested to see if they live up to the hype.

I sure hope we do right now I say Duke by 4. We need the key "little things" to go are way to have a chance to win. The one thing I don't like about playing against Duke compared to other big schools is I think they are better coached and don't play just to win on talent alone. Many times have I seen Duke teams have slightly less talent then other schools but they win because they know how to do the little things that win games. SIU has to turn the tables around and do that to win, going to be a tough challenge.

sagegrouse
11-18-2008, 04:38 PM
My "brashness" started a nice little lively discussion over here. Before that it was like sipping wine at the country club.

Word. Moreover, my country club has a lousy wine list.

sagegrouse

Faison1
11-18-2008, 04:44 PM
Then lets see some chest thumping from you.

Hey man....I appreciate the passion, but if you want chest thumping, you should check one of the other Duke Boards....I don't know their names or addresses, because I don't want to waste my time with inane chatter about he-said-she-said type stuff (I think one is on Scout).

People come here because they're usually sober about their opinions and theories. Respect is for hard fought battles, and well run teams.

So, in regards to the upcoming game, I predict a very compelling and entertaining couple of hours.

Judging by the posts from Saluki fans here, I would guess SIU is going to be UP for this game and exposure. So, Duke better be ready for a rumble. Good luck to all.

sagegrouse
11-18-2008, 04:49 PM
I have a question for you Duke fans: It always seems like teams get "up" for playing Duke. Are there teams (besides UNC) that Duke gets "up" for playing?

I think SIU is one.

The coaching staff will be all over the players this week. I thought Duke played the first half against URI as though the team didn't want to be playing basketball -- freelancing on offense, slow on D, listless shooting. I believe the coaching staff will put playing time up for grabs and 12 players will be ready to kill to get more minutes. I only hope that "kill" translates into steals, rebounds, assists, and shots made and not, you know....

sagegrouse
'In the 2nd half Duke played well -- except that Mr. Jimmy Baron channeled JJ Redick'

Carlos
11-18-2008, 05:16 PM
Ya games at Cameron are great but this board does not have that many people at all. Salukitalk has tons more people posting. Honest question is this the most posted on board for Duke basketball. Or is it kind of just spread out between many boards. I know Duke has more fans that why I think maybe there are multiple boards that Duke fans post at. Us Saluki fans all go to Saluki talk cause that is really the only good boards for us.

You can't swing a dead cat... let's make that a dog in this case... by the tail without hitting a Duke message board. In addition to this one there's the Scout board, the Rivals board, Watzone's board, and probably a few others out there.

If you're looking for name calling and smack talk you may want to try a couple of those.

ChicagoSaluki
11-18-2008, 05:40 PM
Word. Moreover, my country club has a lousy wine list.

sagegrouse

And this board had one too until I started talking smack. :)

ChicagoSaluki
11-18-2008, 05:41 PM
You can't swing a dead cat... let's make that a dog in this case... by the tail without hitting a Duke message board. In addition to this one there's the Scout board, the Rivals board, Watzone's board, and probably a few others out there.

If you're looking for name calling and smack talk you may want to try a couple of those.


Boring

JDev
11-18-2008, 05:55 PM
Boring

You know what they say. If you don't like the tune change the channel.

GoDawgs
11-18-2008, 06:15 PM
You can't swing a dead cat... let's make that a dog in this case... by the tail without hitting a Duke message board. In addition to this one there's the Scout board, the Rivals board, Watzone's board, and probably a few others out there.

If you're looking for name calling and smack talk you may want to try a couple of those.

Thats cool this one is good. I am not about the name calling and smack, more about talking good basketball. For us its an all in one thing at Salukitalk we have boards at like scout, rivals, and espn and such just nobody uses them.

Acymetric
11-18-2008, 06:34 PM
Erm, Duke may be located on the east coast, but it's a school that draws students from across the country (and around the world). A lot of students come from the Chicago area, and a lot of us are familiar with SIU (quite probably over a longer timeframe than most of the Salukis coming here to post this week).

SIU has also been on the national stage making the tournament, playing in the MVC tournament, and participating in the BracketBuster, along with other high profile games over the years.

All of this talk about SIU coming out of nowhere to surprise Duke with superior play is absurd. SIU is a solid program that everyone who follows NCAA ball is familiar with.

Agreed. I've certainly heard of the Salukis before.

As far as all the talk about physicality, That's great. I prefer it when teams try to rough us up, Duke players tend to play their best when someone pisses them off. Particularly Singler, Henderson, Paulus, and Smith. I'm not sure about Scheyer, I don't know that I've ever seen him get frustrated, plus he pretty much brings it all day anyways (not that the other guys don't, but you can definitely see a different level of play when someone gets mad).

I'm looking forward to this game, I think it'll be a lot of fun. Would probably be real exciting to be there in person.

saluki0483
11-18-2008, 06:35 PM
Most aspects of your defense are excellent, but for whatever reason, you guys are atrocious at keeping your opponents off the free throw line. If that doesn't improve Thursday night, Duke is going to win by double digits.

And the SIU team that almost beat Kansas didn't struggle with Division 2 teams. For what it's worth, I picked SIU to go to the Elite 8 that year - I was completely sure you would take Va Tech and whatever first round team you played and reasonably confident you could take Kansas.

Sending them to the free throw line is oddly part of our strategy. We like to be very physical, bump, push, and flat out frustrate teams. Sometimes you get refs that call a lot of touchy fouls, sometimes you don't. That's why we seem to send the other team to the line quite a bit. I know it sounds weird, but it works. Somehow.

JDev
11-18-2008, 07:39 PM
Sending them to the free throw line is oddly part of our strategy. We like to be very physical, bump, push, and flat out frustrate teams. Sometimes you get refs that call a lot of touchy fouls, sometimes you don't. That's why we seem to send the other team to the line quite a bit. I know it sounds weird, but it works. Somehow.

It has long been part of Duke's M.O. to make more free throws than the other team attempts. If Duke gets to the line a lot I have to think that benefits Duke (particularly if they shoot them like they did against RI). Not only does it generate points but it puts the other teams in foul trouble and they are forced to use line-ups they are less comfortable with. But I could be wrong.

dyedwab
11-18-2008, 07:54 PM
Hate to go meta here, but this is an awesome thread. One of the great things about this board is when knowlegable and passionate fans of other teams come and discuss their teams (and even woof a little)....

...It makes me more excited for the upcoming game, and it certainly means that I'll spend much more of the season paying attention to the Salukis....

good luck...except when you play the Devils :-)

saluki0483
11-18-2008, 08:01 PM
It has long been part of Duke's M.O. to make more free throws than the other team attempts. If Duke gets to the line a lot I have to think that benefits Duke (particularly if they shoot them like they did against RI). Not only does it generate points but it puts the other teams in foul trouble and they are forced to use line-ups they are less comfortable with. But I could be wrong.

Like I said, it's an odd thing really. We've beaten teams we sent to the line 30 times in a game. Obviously if we send you to the line, it benefits you. But, part of sending you to the line is getting beat up physically on the court. Frustration and fatigue set in causing you to miss those tosses. It really is an odd thing. If the refs allow physical plays, then advantage SIU.. by a wide margin.

-jk
11-18-2008, 08:04 PM
Ya games at Cameron are great but this board does not have that many people at all. Salukitalk has tons more people posting. Honest question is this the most posted on board for Duke basketball. Or is it kind of just spread out between many boards. I know Duke has more fans that why I think maybe there are multiple boards that Duke fans post at. Us Saluki fans all go to Saluki talk cause that is really the only good boards for us.

Welcome to the board!

As far as I can tell, SIU has around 20,000 undergrads. Duke has about 6,000. Bit of a difference there, and in the subsequent alumni base. There are several Duke boards, but I think we're still the most visited.

I'm looking forward to a great game. As far as physical play goes, we do see a bit in the ACC now and again.

-jk

ChicagoSaluki
11-18-2008, 08:18 PM
hate to go meta here, but this is an awesome thread. One of the great things about this board is when knowlegable and passionate fans of other teams come and discuss their teams (and even woof a little)....

...it makes me more excited for the upcoming game, and it certainly means that i'll spend much more of the season paying attention to the salukis....

Good luck...except when you play the devils :-)



exactly!

ChicagoSaluki
11-18-2008, 08:20 PM
you know what they say. If you don't like the tune change the channel.

still boring

JDev
11-18-2008, 08:24 PM
Like I said, it's an odd thing really. We've beaten teams we sent to the line 30 times in a game. Obviously if we send you to the line, it benefits you. But, part of sending you to the line is getting beat up physically on the court. Frustration and fatigue set in causing you to miss those tosses. It really is an odd thing. If the refs allow physical plays, then advantage SIU.. by a wide margin.

I see what you are saying, but I can't imagine fouling is part of the game plan. I think physical play is the game plan, and thus far it has resulted in more fouls than the SIU coaches would probably like. They don't want to see the guys they count on in foul trouble and Duke or whoever the opponent is shooting a lot of free throws. If you want your hallmark to be physicality, and you want the cumulative effect, you don't want repeated stoppages of play where a team is able to score while catching their breath, which is essentially what is happening when shooting free throws. I'm sure the coaches are working on being physical and toeing the line, as opposed to overly physical and fouling. But perhaps they do want a certain amount of fouls. You guys certainly know your team and I am enjoying the input.

ChicagoSaluki
11-18-2008, 08:32 PM
I see what you are saying, but I can't imagine fouling is part of the game plan. I think physical play is the game plan, and thus far it has resulted in more fouls than the SIU coaches would probably like. They don't want to see the guys they count on in foul trouble and Duke or whoever the opponent is shooting a lot of free throws. If you want your hallmark to be physicality, and you want the cumulative effect, you don't want repeated stoppages of play where a team is able to score while catching their breath, which is essentially what is happening when shooting free throws. I'm sure the coaches are working on being physical and toeing the line, as opposed to overly physical and fouling. But perhaps they do want a certain amount of fouls. You guys certainly know your team and I am enjoying the input.

Stop trying to analyze and just watch on Thursday .... you may learn something.

mgtr
11-18-2008, 08:36 PM
I think it will be interesting to revisit this thread on Friday.

quickgtp
11-18-2008, 08:36 PM
Chicago Saluki, you act as if SIU won the title last year and are a threat to repeat this year. They finished 17-13 last year. Please explain.

ChicagoSaluki
11-18-2008, 08:38 PM
Chicago Saluki, you act as if SIU won the title last year and are a threat to repeat this year. They finished 17-13 last year. Please explain.


Read the previous posts.

ChicagoSaluki
11-18-2008, 08:39 PM
Chicago Saluki, you act as if SIU won the title last year and are a threat to repeat this year. They finished 17-13 last year. Please explain.

The natives are starting to get restless..........;)

quickgtp
11-18-2008, 08:41 PM
Ok I guess your team suffered 13, actually 15, total hangovers last year. You only inflicted 18 total hangovers. Wow!

I am "stating" to get restless? No, your posts are getting lame.

ChicagoSaluki
11-18-2008, 08:42 PM
Ok I guess your team suffered 13, actually 15, total hangovers last year. You only inflicted 18 total hangovers. Wow!

I am "stating" to get restless? No, your posts are getting lame.

Caught me typing too fast.

ChicagoSaluki
11-18-2008, 08:43 PM
Ok I guess your team suffered 13, actually 15, total hangovers last year. You only inflicted 18 total hangovers. Wow!

I am "stating" to get restless? No, your posts are getting lame.

This should be funny on Friday...who ever wins.

quickgtp
11-18-2008, 08:44 PM
I guess we should prepare the Michigan boards for your arrival late Thursday evening? You can inform them of the potential hangover they will have after playing in the 3rd and 4th place game.

ChicagoSaluki
11-18-2008, 08:49 PM
I guess we should prepare the Michigan boards for your arrival late Thursday evening? You can inform them of the potential hangover they will have after playing in the 3rd and 4th place game.


You are really taking this personally ..... I like it.

quickgtp
11-18-2008, 08:51 PM
Wow, personally, huh? Please explain. Wait, are you going to tell me to read previous posts? I am actually trying to help you realize how moronic you appear.....:p

Cell-R
11-18-2008, 08:57 PM
Hey quickgtp, sorry if i'm stepping on any toes here, but you are giving him exactly what he wants.

It won't do any good to continue arguing with him, otherwise this thread will turn into a "Chest Thumping" competition. aka. Flame War :p

quickgtp
11-18-2008, 09:01 PM
LOL Cell I appreciate it. I have been sitting back watching this today cracking up. I am just trying to see how low he can go! You're right, it's not fair to everyone else!

Duke 84
SIU 71

There is my final thought on this matter. Bring on UCLA.

JDev
11-18-2008, 09:02 PM
Stop trying to analyze and just watch on Thursday .... you may learn something.

Don't be dumb enough to assume anything about anonymous message board posters. I know plenty. I was discussing the analysis of one of your fellow Salukis. Is okay for them to analyze, but not a Blue Devil?

ChicagoSaluki
11-18-2008, 09:08 PM
Hey quickgtp, sorry if i'm stepping on any toes here, but you are giving him exactly what he wants.

It won't do any good to continue arguing with him, otherwise this thread will turn into a "Chest Thumping" competition. aka. Flame War :p

I knew the Dukies were smart...:D

slower
11-18-2008, 09:12 PM
You are really taking this personally ..... I like it.

of the "dark" side of fandom. This appears to be somebody who really just wants a fight of some sort, like many of the more annoying "fans" of pretty much ANY team. The kind of a-hole who inhabits bars, just looking to set somebody off. The kind of person who just wears you down through sheer tenacity/stupidity/whatever and then, when you move on to other/better things to do, thinks that they have won the argument. Thanks for being a stereotype.

ChicagoSaluki
11-18-2008, 09:22 PM
of the "dark" side of fandom. This appears to be somebody who really just wants a fight of some sort, like many of the more annoying "fans" of pretty much ANY team. The kind of a-hole who inhabits bars, just looking to set somebody off. The kind of person who just wears you down through sheer tenacity/stupidity/whatever and then, when you move on to other/better things to do, thinks that they have won the argument. Thanks for being a stereotype.

:D:D:D:D

slower
11-18-2008, 09:31 PM
You're probably a decent guy. I'm just cranky today. Thanks for injecting some life into the board. :D

ChicagoSaluki
11-18-2008, 09:51 PM
You're probably a decent guy. I'm just cranky today. Thanks for injecting some life into the board. :D

That was the intent.

I was not trying to pick a fight just trying to spark some lively discussion between opposing fans. It was quite fun seeing the board come to life.

-jk
11-18-2008, 09:52 PM
That was the intent.

I was not trying to pick a fight just trying to spark some lively discussion between opposing fans. It was quite fun seeing the board come to life.

You should have been here after the RI game...

-jk

ChicagoSaluki
11-18-2008, 09:55 PM
Win or lose I will be here after the SIU game. If we win I will be talking major smack. If we lose its fair game on me because I deserve it.

jsaluki
11-18-2008, 09:56 PM
One thing I think many of you Duke fans will appreciate about SIU this year as opposed to most of our years in the past is that the team this year is a little more offensive-minded. The Saluki trademark has been to wind down the shotclock on offense to lower the number of offensive possessions for the opponent...that is why many of our scores are often times in the 50s-60s range. As fans, we've grown accustomed to cheering just as loudly for a shotclock violation against our opponent as some high-flying alley-oop dunk. Many fans in the MVC have hated this tactic because it can "slow down the game." Thus far (two exhibition games and the pod games for the CvC tournament) SIU has taken the ball to the hole a lot quicker. SIU has rarely had to force a shot on offense due to a shotclock winding down.

If there were our sweet sixteen team from a couple years ago (or any other in between for that matter), this might be a little more of a defensive, ugly slugfest, which like I said, we've grown accustom to viewing as quality basketball. High flying offenses have hated it, but as Salukis, we've loved racking up the wins!:)

BlueintheFace
11-18-2008, 09:58 PM
Win or lose I will be here after the SIU game. If we win I will be talking major smack. If we lose its fair game on me because I deserve it.

.. and we will respect you for that on this board... to an extent. Trust me, you won't hear too many disparaging remarks here if we win... unless your team plays dirty.

ChicagoSaluki
11-18-2008, 10:06 PM
.. and we will respect you for that on this board... to an extent. Trust me, you won't hear too many disparaging remarks here if we win... unless your team plays dirty.

You will not see dirty play from the Salukis .... that much I can guarantee.

ChicagoSaluki
11-18-2008, 10:11 PM
.. and we will respect you for that on this board... to an extent. Trust me, you won't hear too many disparaging remarks here if we win... unless your team plays dirty.

What you will see is a very deep team that will go all the way to the end of its bench against any team without much of a drop off in talent.

Bob Green
11-18-2008, 10:15 PM
SIU Fans - please tell us about your team. Bryan Mullins is your go to guy? I see he plays 34 mins and averages a double-double (points and assists) so far this year. How about your inside guys? Describe Carlton Fay's game. How are the two big freshmen? If you guys are going to hang out here how about making yourself useful. :D

Edouble
11-18-2008, 11:12 PM
Um, I chose the wrong day to step away from the boards. Chicagosaluki already has 32 posts! I'm suprised he hasn't given himself a Saluki hangover.

I'm looking forward to seeing this physical brand of play from the Salukis. I've followed them as much as the next die-hard college basketball fan over the past five years, which is to say that I see them mostly in March.

I hope the Saluki people stop by on occassion throughout the season, regardless of Thursday's outcome, as they seem like good, knowledgable fans.

ChicagoSaluki
11-18-2008, 11:22 PM
SIU Fans - please tell us about your team. Bryan Mullins is your go to guy? I see he plays 34 mins and averages a double-double (points and assists) so far this year. How about your inside guys? Describe Carlton Fay's game. How are the two big freshmen? If you guys are going to hang out here how about making yourself useful. :D


Here's the run down

Justin Bocot G 6-4 175 SO; academically ineligible last year; was an offensive machine in high school; heavily recruited by University of lllinois and other "BCS" schools;

Anthony Booker F 6-8 230 FR; top 25 recruit; still makes some freshmen mistakes but is going to be very good, very soon.

Tony Boyle F 6-8 235 SR; defensive work horse; scores big baskets when needed.

Wesley Clemmons G 6-3 195 SR; decent scorer; very good defender.

Christian Cornelius F 6-7 215 JR; unproven because of injuries the last two years but has shown flashes of being very solid this year.

Kevin Dillard G 6-0 160 FR; Mr. Basketball in Illinois last year; very good passer and can light it up from anywhere on the floor. Still makes some freshmen mistakes.

Nick Evans C 6-11 245 FR; raw talent; only played two years of organized ball before coming to SIU; goes 100% all the time. Plays out of control sometimes but has a knack for rebounding and finding loose balls. Runs the floor very well for his size.

Carlton Fay F 6-8 225 SO; team's leading scorer; described by Coach Lowery as "going beserk" both offensively and defensively in second half of UMass game. That decribes his game perfectly. He will be all over the floor. Very good in the post and can shoot the three.

Tony Freeman G 6-1 195 SR; transfer from Iowa (was its leading scorer last year); inelligible this year.

Ryan Hare G 6-4 200 FR; defensive stud; started as SG for the class 2A runner up in llinois last year; steal of the recruiting class IMO because he is the most refined player of our recruiting class. Last minute commitment.

Bryan Mullins G 6-2 190 SR; lefty; team captain; defensive stud; not as quick as some but his positioning and technique make him one of the best man to man defenders in the country. Strong as hell and will wear you down quickly. Averaging a double double this year; ranked 2d in the country in assist average so far.

Torres Roundtree G 6-4 190 FR; good defender; has shown flashes of offensive brilliance.


As I have said before, this is a very deep team. We play mostly a three guard game but have the players to go big if needed. I can't wait for you guys to see us in action. Hope I dont have to eat crow but, win or lose, I think you will be impressed.

Cavlaw
11-18-2008, 11:55 PM
Here's the run down

Justin Bocot G 6-4 175 SO; academically ineligible last year; was an offensive machine in high school; heavily recruited by University of lllinois and other "BCS" schools;

Anthony Booker F 6-8 230 FR; top 25 recruit; still makes some freshmen mistakes but is going to be very good, very soon.

Tony Boyle F 6-8 235 SR; defensive work horse; scores big baskets when needed.

Wesley Clemmons G 6-3 195 SR; decent scorer; very good defender.

Christian Cornelius F 6-7 215 JR; unproven because of injuries the last two years but has shown flashes of being very solid this year.

Kevin Dillard G 6-0 160 FR; Mr. Basketball in Illinois last year; very good passer and can light it up from anywhere on the floor. Still makes some freshmen mistakes.

Nick Evans C 6-11 245 FR; raw talent; only played two years of organized ball before coming to SIU; goes 100% all the time. Plays out of control sometimes but has a knack for rebounding and finding loose balls. Runs the floor very well for his size.

Carlton Fay F 6-8 225 SO; team's leading scorer; described by Coach Lowery as "going beserk" both offensively and defensively in second half of UMass game. That decribes his game perfectly. He will be all over the floor. Very good in the post and can shoot the three.

Tony Freeman G 6-1 195 SR; transfer from Iowa (was its leading scorer last year); inelligible this year.

Ryan Hare G 6-4 200 FR; defensive stud; started as SG for the class 2A runner up in llinois last year; steal of the recruiting class IMO because he is the most refined player of our recruiting class. Last minute commitment.

Bryan Mullins G 6-2 190 SR; lefty; team captain; defensive stud; not as quick as some but his positioning and technique make him one of the best man to man defenders in the country. Strong as hell and will wear you down quickly. Averaging a double double this year; ranked 2d in the country in assist average so far.

Torres Roundtree G 6-4 190 FR; good defender; has shown flashes of offensive brilliance.


As I have said before, this is a very deep team. We play mostly a three guard game but have the players to go big if needed. I can't wait for you guys to see us in action. Hope I dont have to eat crow but, win or lose, I think you will be impressed.
Now that's how you earn your keep around here!

DBR regulars, please remember to limit criticism to posts and not posters. The Salukis are just passing through, and for the most part aren't causing too much of a ruckus (a handful have been shown the door). Duke fans who want to continue posting throughout the season should remember we have civility rules (among others) that need to be followed.

ChicagoSaluki
11-19-2008, 12:09 AM
now that's how you earn your keep around here!

Dbr regulars, please remember to limit criticism to posts and not posters. The salukis are just passing through, and for the most part aren't causing too much of a ruckus (a handful have been shown the door). Duke fans who want to continue posting throughout the season should remember we have civility rules (among others) that need to be followed.


i am not concerned about earning my keep.

throatybeard
11-19-2008, 12:17 AM
SIU Fans - please tell us about your team. Bryan Mullins is your go to guy? I see he plays 34 mins and averages a double-double (points and assists) so far this year. How about your inside guys? Describe Carlton Fay's game. How are the two big freshmen? If you guys are going to hang out here how about making yourself useful. :D

They already did early in the thread:

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showpost.php?p=217342&postcount=27

Bob Green
11-19-2008, 12:52 AM
Here's the run down



Thanks for a great post!!!

NashvilleSaluki
11-19-2008, 12:02 PM
What a game coming up. I will have to say however, as a Saluki, raised on campus, as a graduate, that each time we hoped for an epic game, something else happened. SIU is quite capable of beating Duke, but will it actually happen. I for one am very excited about this new class and look for them to grow in strength and talent, not only this year but the next few down the road. The best is yet to come from them and knocking off UMass is just a start.

One of the toughest challenges that the SIU team faces is keeping a head coach long enough to remain dominate. Any success at all usually has the top D1 schools enticing them away. Kudos to the program for at least putting together strong teams that do pretty well in March.

Duke will never be a rival, so when you Blue Faces watch the game this thursday, think about our small program, it's non top recruit players, and their ability to play with the top BB programs in the country..

Best

A saluki born and raised.....

DawgStyle
11-19-2008, 01:10 PM
ChicagoSaluki - Stop it. Your making all SIU fans look bad whether that is your intention or not.

From one SIU fan to the rest of the Duke Board, I apologize for ChicagoSaluki and his actions. He does not speak for all of us, and I would hope you do not judge all of us by his actions.

As for the game. Let me clarify what people are trying to say.

1) SIU is not more talented than Duke or a host of quality teams in the country. No one is or should be claiming that.

2) They also should not be claiming that SIU is the best conditioned or strongest team you guys will play. They have no way of knowing that or proving it.

3) This SIU teams defense is not as good as past SIU teams.

4) We are however better offensively.

5) We do have a deeper squad than past years, but it is incredibly young, and no one knows how they will react in their first road game, let along Madison Square Garden, and a top 15 team.

6) As far as saying Duke will have the Saluki Hangover. I think that's a bit of bravado by some on here. I think the over all point isn't that SIU is better conditioned or more talented, they aren't. But their style of play is conducive to being very physical at all times, not just certain parts of the game. Basically your guys will have more bumps and bruises after playing us than most teams. Does that mean you will lose, I highly doubt it.

7) Most importantly, this SIU team is no where near as good (yet) as the team that took Kansas to the wire 2 years ago in the sweet 16. We have a long way to go before that happens.

8) Duke will win this game in my opinion. Probably by 10 plus.

9) In future years as this team grows and matures, SIU will be a powerful force in the top 25, but SIU fans need to remember that it isn't gonna be this year.

Thanks for letting me post.

bigj4194
11-19-2008, 01:47 PM
ChicagoSaluki - Stop it. Your making all SIU fans look bad whether that is your intention or not.

From one SIU fan to the rest of the Duke Board, I apologize for ChicagoSaluki and his actions. He does not speak for all of us, and I would hope you do not judge all of us by his actions.

As for the game. Let me clarify what people are trying to say.

1) SIU is not more talented than Duke or a host of quality teams in the country. No one is or should be claiming that.

2) They also should not be claiming that SIU is the best conditioned or strongest team you guys will play. They have no way of knowing that or proving it.

3) This SIU teams defense is not as good as past SIU teams.

4) We are however better offensively.

5) We do have a deeper squad than past years, but it is incredibly young, and no one knows how they will react in their first road game, let along Madison Square Garden, and a top 15 team.

6) As far as saying Duke will have the Saluki Hangover. I think that's a bit of bravado by some on here. I think the over all point isn't that SIU is better conditioned or more talented, they aren't. But their style of play is conducive to being very physical at all times, not just certain parts of the game. Basically your guys will have more bumps and bruises after playing us than most teams. Does that mean you will lose, I highly doubt it.

7) Most importantly, this SIU team is no where near as good (yet) as the team that took Kansas to the wire 2 years ago in the sweet 16. We have a long way to go before that happens.

8) Duke will win this game in my opinion. Probably by 10 plus.

9) In future years as this team grows and matures, SIU will be a powerful force in the top 25, but SIU fans need to remember that it isn't gonna be this year.

Thanks for letting me post.

Thank you so much for this post my friend. This is a pleasure to see. I not going to say that I have been following SIU for a long time, but it has been a pleasure to see your success the past few seasons. Your program is obviously on the rise. This is a very useful analysis of your team and I look forward to seeing this matchup tomorrow night.

One quick note, I believe the SIU style of playing physical is good, but Duke can play that game too. If we look to last year, Wisconsin, a very physical pound it in the paint team, was an interesting game. We were able to not let them get comfortable in their usual style of play. While yes we do not have an ideal go to bigman, we have people who can defend the post well.

As for the other Saluki posters, welcome to the board, but stop acting like you have to promote yourself to us...i feel that we here on DBR are all dedicated basketball fans and have thus heard of you and know a little about your program. I am not a moderator of this board, but I know there are many people here that are more knowledgeable about college basketball than I am, but I know of your successes. (sorry Cavlaw, i just had to say something and this is not in response to one particular poster)

RainingThrees
11-19-2008, 01:52 PM
Any news on Greg's injury? I would really enjoy at least a 20 point game from G.

Saratoga2
11-19-2008, 01:58 PM
The apathy of Duke fans is incredible. The chest thumping is what makes college BB so fun. If SIU gets rolled over it will not bother me in the least because everyone expects it. On the other hand, if Duke loses ...... oh my god the sky will fall.

One after another of your posts indicate that you think your team is some kind of incarnation of the Detroit Pistons in their heyday. I can assure you that Duke faces physical teams in the ACC. The RI game had a lot of tough defense and bumping as well. The difference is they also had an incredible shooting night and they still lost. I will enjoy watching the game and I hope you will return with your post game thoughts. Other Saluki fans seem more moderate and objective.

NashvilleSaluki
11-19-2008, 02:39 PM
One after another of your posts indicate that you think your team is some kind of incarnation of the Detroit Pistons in their heyday. I can assure you that Duke faces physical teams in the ACC. The RI game had a lot of tough defense and bumping as well. The difference is they also had an incredible shooting night and they still lost. I will enjoy watching the game and I hope you will return with your post game thoughts. Other Saluki fans seem more moderate and objective.

He is only one, just more into stirring the pot, don't let it ruin your chili...

WiJoe
11-19-2008, 02:58 PM
I will be in the garden tomorrow night, God willing, and wanted to live blog during the game. What I will end up doing is one of two things:

1) Just dive in on the snrub chat

2) Start a thread and have a poor man's chat, which would be very disjointed.

Any input from you folks wold be appreciated. It will be an interesting couple of nights, no doubt. And Bobby Knight doing the analysis? WOW!

Looking forward to attempting to add some insight to the games.

Jerry K.

ACCBBallFan
11-19-2008, 06:32 PM
Here's the run down

Justin Bocot G 6-4 175 SO; academically ineligible last year; was an offensive machine in high school; heavily recruited by University of lllinois and other "BCS" schools;

Anthony Booker F 6-8 230 FR; top 25 recruit; still makes some freshmen mistakes but is going to be very good, very soon.

Tony Boyle F 6-8 235 SR; defensive work horse; scores big baskets when needed.

Wesley Clemmons G 6-3 195 SR; decent scorer; very good defender.

Christian Cornelius F 6-7 215 JR; unproven because of injuries the last two years but has shown flashes of being very solid this year.

Kevin Dillard G 6-0 160 FR; Mr. Basketball in Illinois last year; very good passer and can light it up from anywhere on the floor. Still makes some freshmen mistakes.

Nick Evans C 6-11 245 FR; raw talent; only played two years of organized ball before coming to SIU; goes 100% all the time. Plays out of control sometimes but has a knack for rebounding and finding loose balls. Runs the floor very well for his size.

Carlton Fay F 6-8 225 SO; team's leading scorer; described by Coach Lowery as "going beserk" both offensively and defensively in second half of UMass game. That decribes his game perfectly. He will be all over the floor. Very good in the post and can shoot the three.

Tony Freeman G 6-1 195 SR; transfer from Iowa (was its leading scorer last year); inelligible this year.

Ryan Hare G 6-4 200 FR; defensive stud; started as SG for the class 2A runner up in llinois last year; steal of the recruiting class IMO because he is the most refined player of our recruiting class. Last minute commitment.

Bryan Mullins G 6-2 190 SR; lefty; team captain; defensive stud; not as quick as some but his positioning and technique make him one of the best man to man defenders in the country. Strong as hell and will wear you down quickly. Averaging a double double this year; ranked 2d in the country in assist average so far.

Torres Roundtree G 6-4 190 FR; good defender; has shown flashes of offensive brilliance.


As I have said before, this is a very deep team. We play mostly a three guard game but have the players to go big if needed. I can't wait for you guys to see us in action. Hope I dont have to eat crow but, win or lose, I think you will be impressed.
Thanks to you and all the Saluki fans who offered objective opinions on the roster this year.

It pretty much confirms what I surmised by looking at this year's stats. The method I use is not important, just that it attempts to figure out the best players taking all stats into consideration:


79 f 6'8" 235 Carlton Fay
59 g 6'1" 185 Bryan Mullins
51 g 5'11" 160 Kevin Dillard
47 f 6'8" 230 Tony Boyle
42.3 SIU Team Totals
39 g 6'3" 195 Wesley Clemmons

56 c 6'11" 250 Nick Evans
34 f 6'8" 220 Anthony Booker
30 g 6'4" 200 Ryan Hare
25 g 6'3" 175 Justin Bocot
21 g 6'7" 215 Christian Cornelius
09 g 6'4" 185 Torres Roundtree

One common thread is a lot of your analyses is that SIU is young and makes mistakes. This is something Duke thrives in taking advantage of. Freshman turnovers and fouls will kill you if you do that vs. Duke.

Another is that your team is deep. The thing you need to recognize about Duke is they go 12 deep in potential and some posters would actually prefer a lot of fouls be called so their particular favorite players who may not be getting as much PT as they think should happen, play more.

SIU may be getting some of the top players from STL where I grew up many moons ago and in Illinois where Scheyer hails from too, but Duke is stacked with McDonald's All-Americans and all 12 guys are top 100, probably 9 or so top 50 and half a dozen top 30 or better.

You are right though, best way to compete with Duke is to get Singler in foul trouble. But SIU despite its strength and conditioning is not big and guys like Lance Thomas and Dave McClure who are small by ACC standards can play against your team if need be to contain Fay.

Personally I hope Duke goes with 7' 1" 280 pound Zoubek in post backed up by 6' 10" 240 pound Miles Plumlee who have each only averaged 10- 12 MPG so far. Their size will be needed vs. UCLA if both advance.

Forget about trying to guard Singler with anybody but Fay just as most teams that do not have a Singler would have difficulty guarding Fay. but Lance Thomas is about same size as Boyle and Fay and McClure slightly smaller but 5th year guy who positions well and does the little things that win games.

If two of Boyle, Fay and Evans get in foul trouble, it is curtains for SIU, whereas Duke has 6 guys that size.

Henderson has not done much so far this year, but watch out if he does. He and Singler are sure first round NBA whenever they decide to go that route.

There are a ton of athletic guys no one has mentioned yet like Elliott Williams, Marty Pocius who get little PT on Duke but would be sure starters for SIU and other guys like Olek Czyz with enormous potential but lot to learn.

So Duke also plays a 3 guard set and goes 6 deep with little drop off, has Singler as PF and can go with either two big centers or two small post defenders depending on the opponent, or combination of all 4 with one of them backing up Singler.

So while wearing down an opponent and getting them to use their bench usually works for SIU and will work against you, it will not work against a very few teams and Duke and UNC are two of them.

The best remedy to beat Duke is dominating big men (much bigger than Fay) and multiple fast penetrating gaurds in a spread the floor offense. So Duke better hope to not have that Saluki hangover if they likely face UCLA.

Game will be competitive and both teams will benefit from having played a better opponent than the typical OOC game.

dukestheheat
11-19-2008, 06:53 PM
Good luck to the Salukis and here is to a great game!

dukestheheat

mgtr
11-19-2008, 07:56 PM
Setting aside the bravado and chest-thumping, the rest of the Saluki posters have provided some interest in the game and the competition. I hope that SIU plays a decent game -- it will help their program. However, I expect that Duke will win by 10+ points. In fairness, though, I made the same forecast for the URI game, and I was wrong.

Carlos
11-19-2008, 08:36 PM
Here's the run down

Anthony Booker F 6-8 230 FR; top 25 recruit; still makes some freshmen mistakes but is going to be very good, very soon.

Who had Booker ranked in the top 25? According to RSCI, the highest he was ranked was ranked 44th by Rivals and in the 70's and 80's by everyone else.

coach_k5
11-19-2008, 08:44 PM
Hey guys I'm from around the SIU area and everyone is talking about this game. Of course they have a young coach and he has done wonders for the program. I have seen SIU a little and Duke should have no problem unless Big Z gets into foul trouble, he must contribute to the cause greatly tomorrow. I don't know about you guys but Z must contribute this year as well as Plumlee. SIU will guard the peremeter sharply tomorrow night, so we must have a big game underneath.

JDev
11-19-2008, 08:47 PM
Thanks to you and all the Saluki fans who offered objective opinions on the roster this year.

It pretty much confirms what I surmised by looking at this year's stats. The method I use is not important, just that it attempts to figure out the best players taking all stats into consideration:


79 f 6'8" 235 Carlton Fay
59 g 6'1" 185 Bryan Mullins
51 g 5'11" 160 Kevin Dillard
47 f 6'8" 230 Tony Boyle
42.3 SIU Team Totals
39 g 6'3" 195 Wesley Clemmons

56 c 6'11" 250 Nick Evans
34 f 6'8" 220 Anthony Booker
30 g 6'4" 200 Ryan Hare
25 g 6'3" 175 Justin Bocot
21 g 6'7" 215 Christian Cornelius
09 g 6'4" 185 Torres Roundtree

One common thread is a lot of your analyses is that SIU is young and makes mistakes. This is something Duke thrives in taking advantage of. Freshman turnovers and fouls will kill you if you do that vs. Duke.

Another is that your team is deep. The thing you need to recognize about Duke is they go 12 deep in potential and some posters would actually prefer a lot of fouls be called so their particular favorite players who may not be getting as much PT as they think should happen, play more.

SIU may be getting some of the top players from STL where I grew up many moons ago and in Illinois where Scheyer hails from too, but Duke is stacked with McDonald's All-Americans and all 12 guys are top 100, probably 9 or so top 50 and half a dozen top 30 or better.

You are right though, best way to compete with Duke is to get Singler in foul trouble. But SIU despite its strength and conditioning is not big and guys like Lance Thomas and Dave McClure who are small by ACC standards can play against your team if need be to contain Fay.

Personally I hope Duke goes with 7' 1" 280 pound Zoubek in post backed up by 6' 10" 240 pound Miles Plumlee who have each only averaged 10- 12 MPG so far. Their size will be needed vs. UCLA if both advance.

Forget about trying to guard Singler with anybody but Fay just as most teams that do not have a Singler would have difficulty guarding Fay. but Lance Thomas is about same size as Boyle and Fay and McClure slightly smaller but 5th year guy who positions well and does the little things that win games.

If two of Boyle, Fay and Evans get in foul trouble, it is curtains for SIU, whereas Duke has 6 guys that size.

Henderson has not done much so far this year, but watch out if he does. He and Singler are sure first round NBA whenever they decide to go that route.

There are a ton of athletic guys no one has mentioned yet like Elliott Williams, Marty Pocius who get little PT on Duke but would be sure starters for SIU and other guys like Olek Czyz with enormous potential but lot to learn.

So Duke also plays a 3 guard set and goes 6 deep with little drop off, has Singler as PF and can go with either two big centers or two small post defenders depending on the opponent, or combination of all 4 with one of them backing up Singler.

So while wearing down an opponent and getting them to use their bench usually works for SIU and will work against you, it will not work against a very few teams and Duke and UNC are two of them.

The best remedy to beat Duke is dominating big men (much bigger than Fay) and multiple fast penetrating gaurds in a spread the floor offense. So Duke better hope to not have that Saluki hangover if they likely face UCLA.

Game will be competitive and both teams will benefit from having played a better opponent than the typical OOC game.

Home run of a post. Great job. Duke does have the personnel who are underized in the league, but quite suited for a game like this. Thomas and McClure will be very helpful in this game, particularly guarding Fay.

jsaluki
11-19-2008, 09:48 PM
Well Duke fans, it has been fun discussing the game over the last week. I would love to say good luck tomorrow, but, well, you know...:)

I'll see ya on here Friday...win or lose.

JDev
11-19-2008, 09:56 PM
Well Duke fans, it has been fun discussing the game over the last week. I would love to say good luck tomorrow, but, well, you know...:)

I'll see ya on here Friday...win or lose.

I certainly don't speak for everyone, but feel free to come by any time over the course of the season to discuss all things college basketball. Looking forward to a fun game!

Rabid Dog
11-19-2008, 10:14 PM
Bryan Mullins is SIU's most consistent player. When nobody else is playing well, you can assume that he is still having a decent game. He is the CPU of SIU, coordinating all the plays; he is really good at keeping his head up and reading the defense and taking what it gives. Mullins is clutch with threes and will occasionally catch the D falling asleep and dribble in for an easy layup (part of his being good at reading the D). He is one of the best on the ball defenders in the country (left over from the 06'-07' legendary defensive team, they were the best defensive team in the country at the time IMO), harassing players all over the floor he gives them not a moments respite; his hands are always up and ready for the steel. I wouldn't call Mullins our "go to guy" however. He is the one doing the distributing. He is definitely not really a scoring type guard, but more of the type of player that brings out the best in his team each possession: a true leader. Although, he is averaging double figure points, which is a good contribution.

Our inside guys? Well...SIU may be somewhat lacking in the frontcourt, the backcourt is it's strength. Our tallest guy is Evans and he is rather raw. Raw in the sense that he didn't begin playing till his soph year in high school. But...he shows a lot of vigor and vim for the game and he is very enthusiastic, runs the court very well, finishes well, rebounds well. Basically he does all the things a big man is supposed to do. But he is something of a work in progress; he may only need one season and could be awesome by the end of this season, or he may need a little more time, we'll see. But right now he is a work in progress.

Boyle is a senior (I think) and a vet in the program. In previous posts describing him on this board, I thought they didn't give him enough credit. Boyle actually has decent moves in the post and always finds a way to get the shot off (he utilizes the fake really well); he is rarely blocked, etc. I like his offensive game: he has a good mid range J, he is a functional post player (for his size especially) and he is one of the few on the team I have faith in at the free throw line. His defense is mediocre and he tends to foul a lot (although he has kept himself under control so far this season in this dept.); he is a very physical player.

Booker is our four star, highly touted recruit. Out of everybody, he has looked the most rusty so far; except for decent rebounding. Whether it is jitters or the silence before the storm, I don't know. I hope he breaks out soon and does what he is supposed to be able to as such a valuable recruit, maybe tomorrow. He is supposed to be a "do it all" type player, not unlike your Singler he can make the three or post up or take a guy to the hoop. But...we have yet to see it. Basically, he is a freshmen and I expect him to be shining by the end of the season. This is who Lowery needs to have guarding Singler I think, we will see what he does though.

Fay is the most improved player since last season by far. I don't know what happened to him over the summer? But now he is our leading offensive player in the way of putting points on the board. He is probably the best shooter on the team, he can shoot anywhere on the floor. His footspeed was a problem last season, but this has wholly improved. Now he guards better, gets to loose balls better and fits into the Saluki style of play much better. IMO, not unlike the past Saluki Matt Shaw, he seems somewhat afraid to post up (he is 6'8" and very strong; in other words, he has the physique for it) and is relying heavily on his supreme shooting touch for his points. I would like to see him post up more and slash to the hoop a bit more. Your Dukies will want to be sure to have a hand in this guy's face.

The freshmen: I am the most impressed with Dillard and Roundtree so far, although I think Hare is emerging quickly. Dillard is a very quick guard who can do it all. He is going to be awesome for this program. He looks to score more than Mullins (not that he tries to outscore him, just that he wants to score). However, he can distribute equally as well as Mullins. Definitely not as smart as Mullins yet in the sense that he doesn't read the defense as well. He doesn't appear to be able to make free throws, although he can make the three (something I'll never understand, I guess such players need to be in the rhythm of the game to make shots?)

Rountree is a wonderful athelete. He is more of a slasher type scorer that likes to dunk and can create his own shot. I'm not sure about his shot yet. His defense is great, and it will get even better as his career at SIU progresses. He seems to be guided by an extremely competitive spirit and will wind up being a big clutch man. He is probably one of those guys that hates to lose a little more than the next guy. He banged his knee in the UMass game, but I think he will be fine tom. (I hope). He will be a Saluki great. He and Booker were teammates in high school.

Hare is going to be the type of player that has a great intuition for being in the right place at the right time. He will be the kind of player to get a lot of rebounds even though he is smaller. Hare will find himself on top of a lot of loose balls, stealing the ball, getting awkward rebounds and put backs. He will have a magnetic relationship with the ball. Not sure about his shot.

Bocot is the other freshman. He is mainly an offensive player (he is lagging behind the other newbs on D) and can create his own shot. He is atheletic like Roundtree and slashes, likes to dunk (although he is a stick), etc. He may be a better shooter than the other two newbs, but time will tell. I havent even seen these guys play yet I admit. Only listened to the games on the radio.

All of the freshmen bring offense firepower that has been absent in the past and, as a result, the Princeton style offense may be changed up a bit. Our current team doesn't aim for a low scoring game like teams of the past. When there is a decent shot, they take it, or they make their own shot. Actually, this is normal, what was abnormal was how, in the past SIU teams would be forced to take shots out of duress because there would be no time left on the shot clock. This has been cured and now we have a more balanced team. SIU teams of the past had the best defense in the country to make up for an insane attempt at a half court princeton offense. This season we don't have as good of defense (the freshmen will have to learn the Saluki brand of D, which doesn't happen overnight), but our offense has kicked up a notch so the end result is that we currently have a more balanced team.

As for tomorrow, it isn't necessary to guess who will win...that's why we watch, no? Whoever is able to impose their will the most wins the game. SIU has a very physical defense so there is a decent chance your players will be spending a lot of time at the free throw line and that SIU will get into foul trouble. I don't know Duke's game well enough to state what may be their Achilles heel for tom. In the past I would've been confident enough in our defense that I would have known Duke would struggle with it, but now I don't know and we may not be able to stop ya'll. Anyone care to enumerate how Duke might lose?

gotham devil
11-19-2008, 10:25 PM
Duke opens as a 13.5 favorite.

Kedsy
11-20-2008, 12:12 AM
Anyone care to enumerate how Duke might lose?

Well, no, I wouldn't like to speculate on how Duke might lose. I never like to think about such things. Having said that (and I'm sure numerous other posters will disagree with my assessment), Duke occasionally struggles when faced with quick, penetrating guards combined with athletic, burly forwards who crash the boards. If Duke has a poor shooting night against a team with those qualities, it can lead to trouble. We also learned from the Rhode Island game that if someone on the opposing team can shoot 8 for 9 on long 3-pointers with a hand in his face, then the game has a good chance of being close.

salukiguy
11-20-2008, 08:32 AM
Hi all. I've read through the thread and thought I could add a bit to what's already been said. I've been following the Salukis for about a decade now and go to every home game ("season tickets baby!").

This season is very interesting. All the new players make any predictions difficult to make. With so many young guys on the roster, their mindset entering the game is maybe the most important intangible. If they aren't overwhelmed by the Garden and the hype that Duke brings with them every game, they should have a good showing. Having said that, I think we'll know how the game will go in the first ten minutes. If they play like they did against UMass in the first ten, then the game is over. They were able to come back from a big hole (15 points) against UMass, but UMass isn't Duke and they will be playing at the Garden and not the SIU Arena where the crowd is terrific at motivating the team. If they start out strong and can keep it close they have a shot at winning as do half the D-1 teams on any given night. You have to figure that if SIU can be within striking distance midway through the 2nd half that the crowd will start going for the underdog and then it anyone's ball-game.

The keys to the Saluki's success will be Fay (6'8" forward) staying out of foul trouble early and their young guards (4 freshman/talented but young) taking care of the basketball and limiting turnovers. Those soft high-school passes don't get past D-1 players. Heck, they didn't get past the D-2 teams we played in our exhibition games actually. Hopefully (at least for Saluki fans) Lowery gave them enough passing drills over the last couple weeks to fix that problem for good. To have a chance, SIU has to play 11 guys and try to wear down Duke and be quicker at the end of the game than the Blue Devils. With 6 freshmen that all see action their composure will be a big part in determining the game's outcome.

Some players to watch:
Nick Evans (FR 6'11" 250lb): Raw in basketball skills but very athletic. He was a sprinter in HS and was said to be the fastest person in his school. Not a common trait for a 6’11” kid.

Brian Mullins: The SR guard is a known commodity and will have to control the tempo of the game and be the on-floor coach for the young guys to give SIU a chance.

Carlton Fay (SO 6'8" 235lb forward): Great skill set but young. Strong kid with a nice touch could present some match-up problems if SIU can still rebound well even when he looks for shots from the perimeter.

Kevin Dillard (FR guard): Great B-Ball IQ for a freshman and has shown flashes of the basketball brilliance that made him MR. Basketball in Illinois his SR year. Unfortunately he can get a bit ahead of himself sometimes and try to do too much...a combination of tendencies Lowry has coined as being "magical or tragical".

Tony Boyle (SR 6'8" 230lb): If he comes to play, and he usually does in big games, he could be a difference maker.
Best of luck to both teams. Here’s hoping everyone makes it out healthy.

mgtr
11-20-2008, 08:45 AM
Thanks, salukiguy, for your calm and reasoned assessment. It is normal for you folks to have high hopes for your team, just as we do for Duke. I, too, hope it is a good game (perhaps not quite as good as URI was!), and that there are no injuries. I hope the refs set the right tone early, and everybody can play some basketball.
I think that our guys were looking past URI to you guys. Hopefully we are not now looking past you to UCLA. I expect that Coach K had a word or two to say about that.

Edouble
11-20-2008, 10:12 AM
Kudos to DBR for a nice game preview on the main page today. While I understand their point regarding the "Duke aura", we did not lose to Belmont.

dukestheheat
11-20-2008, 10:44 AM
Well, no, I wouldn't like to speculate on how Duke might lose. I never like to think about such things. Having said that (and I'm sure numerous other posters will disagree with my assessment), Duke occasionally struggles when faced with quick, penetrating guards combined with athletic, burly forwards who crash the boards. If Duke has a poor shooting night against a team with those qualities, it can lead to trouble. We also learned from the Rhode Island game that if someone on the opposing team can shoot 8 for 9 on long 3-pointers with a hand in his face, then the game has a good chance of being close.

and I did state earlier, in another thread, that Duke over the last several years has had trouble with teams who come in and match Duke's intensity. That doesn't mean we've lost the game, and in most cases we've won the game actually, but the game is more competitive and the score is closer when teams come in and decide to match Duke from the tip on attitude, swagger and energy.

Look for a good game tonight.

dukestheheat

Bluedog
11-20-2008, 10:55 AM
Now, I'm certainly not looking past SIU (or assuming we're losing the game tonight, of course), but just thought that it was interesting that it's possible for us to play Michigan twice within a two week span. Have we ever played a non-conference opponent twice in such a short span? Going further, how many times have we played a non-conference opponent twice in the same season? I can't imagine very many...

Edouble
11-20-2008, 11:05 AM
Now, I'm certainly not looking past SIU (or assuming we're losing the game tonight, of course), but just thought that it was interesting that it's possible for us to play Michigan twice within a two week span. Have we ever played a non-conference opponent twice in such a short span? Going further, how many times have we played a non-conference opponent twice in the same season? I can't imagine very many...

Temple

11/24/2000 and 12/02/2000

Rabid Dog
11-20-2008, 11:43 AM
Well, no, I wouldn't like to speculate on how Duke might lose. I never like to think about such things. Having said that (and I'm sure numerous other posters will disagree with my assessment), Duke occasionally struggles when faced with quick, penetrating guards combined with athletic, burly forwards who crash the boards. If Duke has a poor shooting night against a team with those qualities, it can lead to trouble. We also learned from the Rhode Island game that if someone on the opposing team can shoot 8 for 9 on long 3-pointers with a hand in his face, then the game has a good chance of being close.

Thanks for the insight. It helps to have an objective enough view on the game to understand how your own team may go wrong so you aren't crushed if it materializes. I definitely know what it could be with the Dawgs. I like what I am hearing however regarding how Duke doesn't like teams that match their intensity of course because SIU is all about intensity if nothing else (with the moniker Floorburn U). So maybe we will at least have a good game to watch, eh? Still, Henderson is the total mismatch from where I am standing...he scares me; he is your best player IMO.

And even though we've touted Carlton Fay quite a bit...he could have an off night. If he does, it will probably be Mullins to pick up the scoring slack because he is such a good leader/player. Boyle may help in this regard too. As a matter of fact I wouldn't be surprised if this is what happened: Boyle and Mullins (our vets) carry us. Although, our freshmen are the slashers with the speed to perhaps give Duke problems (if that is indeed what they struggle with). Lets hope for a good one. :cool:

slower
11-20-2008, 12:05 PM
But I think tonight may be the night that Henderson gets his groove back.

quickgtp
11-20-2008, 12:14 PM
Any projections for starting lineup this evening?

I say Smith, Scheyer, Henderson, Singler and Thomas....

I dunno, I have a feeling Lance has earned the job for tonight. Am i crazy to think that? Or does Z/Plumlee get the nod instead?

Rabid Dog
11-20-2008, 12:20 PM
I must say that I am pissed that Paulus won't play. I was looking forward to him getting burned, as that is one of Dukes vulnerabilities IMO: the slowish footspeed of it's backcourt. Who will be replacing Paulus? Is he any quicker?

gotham devil
11-20-2008, 12:45 PM
I must say that I am pissed that Paulus won't play. I was looking forward to him getting burned, as that is one of Dukes vulnerabilities IMO: the slowish footspeed of it's backcourt. Who will be replacing Paulus? Is he any quicker?

Nolan Smith and, yeah, he's quicker.
Duke is currently a 12.5-13 point favorite, while UCLA, which opened as a 14 point favorite against Michigan, is now down to 9.5-10.

Acymetric
11-20-2008, 12:47 PM
I must say that I am pissed that Paulus won't play. I was looking forward to him getting burned, as that is one of Dukes vulnerabilities IMO: the slowish footspeed of it's backcourt. Who will be replacing Paulus? Is he any quicker?

Has anyone said he won't play? He played hurt last game, I'd imagine he has recovered some at this point and would get at least as much time as he got against RI. Unless I missed someone saying he was out?

Cavlaw
11-20-2008, 12:48 PM
I'm not sure I would say Nolan is replacing Greg, since Nolan is the starter so far this season.

trinity92
11-20-2008, 12:53 PM
And will report on the game afterwards. Hoping to score some cheap tickets to the championship game from shellshocked/disenheartened saluki fans who forget that Duke's defense will be unlike anything they've ever experienced, except with better athletes who have just been scared out of taking a small-time program lightly by a close call at home. Actually, I suppose SIU did experience defense like ours in the1993 NCAA tournament-- we beat them 105-70. :p

Couldn't resist.

Go Duke!

dukestheheat
11-20-2008, 12:58 PM
Any projections for starting lineup this evening?

I say Smith, Scheyer, Henderson, Singler and Thomas....

I dunno, I have a feeling Lance has earned the job for tonight. Am i crazy to think that? Or does Z/Plumlee get the nod instead?

will probably start; he seems to have earned more time because he's been playing well lately, in my opinion. He looked pretty good versus the Rhode and he seems to have matured.

dth.

DawgStyle
11-20-2008, 01:00 PM
And will report on the game afterwards. Hoping to score some cheap tickets to the championship game from shellshocked/disenheartened saluki fans who forget that Duke's defense will be unlike anything they've ever experienced, except with better athletes who have just been scared out of taking a small-time program lightly by a close call at home. Actually, I suppose SIU did experience defense like ours in the1993 NCAA tournament-- we beat them 105-70. :p

Couldn't resist.

Go Duke!

except they play their own defense every day in practice, but you're right, they've never seen a defense like Dukes, with the exception of kansas, indiana, uconn, etc. etc.

dukestheheat
11-20-2008, 01:00 PM
I must say that I am pissed that Paulus won't play. I was looking forward to him getting burned, as that is one of Dukes vulnerabilities IMO: the slowish footspeed of it's backcourt. Who will be replacing Paulus? Is he any quicker?

don't leave him open for the jumper or Greg's the one doing the burning. Dude can fill it UP.

dth.

JDev
11-20-2008, 01:02 PM
There is a lot of talk about how SIU likes to play a physical brand of basketball, and I have no doubt that is true. The misconception is that that will affect Duke. This Duke team, along with all others, has the great luxury of playing in the ACC, which exposes them to all brands of basketball. The ACC sports its share of powerful, physical teams (VT and Clemson), teams that run-and-gun and get up and down the floor (UNC), freakishly athletic teams (Wake), huge teams (seemingly this year's FSU squad), teams that opperate out of specific sets often (Maryland and their flex O), and everything in between. That is one of the many reasons ACC teams typically fair well in March, they can play and beat any style.

BlueintheFace
11-20-2008, 01:04 PM
except they play their own defense every day in practice, but you're right, they've never seen a defense like Dukes, with the exception of kansas, indiana, uconn, etc. etc.

Duke's defense is in fact very dissimilar from the teams you name above. There is a reason you hear about Duke's pressure defense year in and year out. Now, if you had said UCLA, I would have conceded that point. Their defense is very similar man-to-man, ball pressure, denial fueled D... like ours.

wisteria
11-20-2008, 01:06 PM
I'm looking forward to how Duke's offense is going to fare against SIU's touted defense. Our own defense has been solid in the first two games, and really it wasn't bad against URI. But our offense has a lot of room for improvement. Good thing that SIU excels in defense, and if we pass the test, UCLA is famous for defense as well. Great early season tests for our guys.

Rabid Dog
11-20-2008, 01:23 PM
Actually, I didn't know for sure if Paulus would play if he isn't starting. Or does Duke vary the starting line up a lot? The only thing that makes me feel comfortable going into this game is the fact that we have a guard with one of the highest bball IQs in college hoops by the name of BM leading the Saluki vanguard. And I am hoping that our youngins can use their inexperience and naivety to their advantage and not fall for all the hype surrounding this game instead of it going the other way and them getting a terrible case of jitters. All of our new guys like to slash to the hoop and create their own shots, which is also something I take comfort in because I noticed how Duke got burnt a lot by RI who also had guards that played this way. I hope Lowery noticed this too and plans to try it, he has players that specialize in this area. If SIU gets beat, I hope it is by less than ten points.

Acymetric
11-20-2008, 01:36 PM
Actually, I didn't know for sure if Paulus would play if he isn't starting. Or does Duke vary the starting line up a lot? The only thing that makes me feel comfortable going into this game is the fact that we have a guard with one of the highest bball IQs in college hoops by the name of BM leading the Saluki vanguard. And I am hoping that our youngins can use their inexperience and naivety to their advantage and not fall for all the hype surrounding this game instead of it going the other way and them getting a terrible case of jitters. All of our new guys like to slash to the hoop and create their own shots, which is also something I take comfort in because I noticed how Duke got burnt a lot by RI who also had guards that played this way. I hope Lowery noticed this too and plans to try it, he has players that specialize in this area. If SIU gets beat, I hope it is by less than ten points.

Paulus hasn't started once this year. His name is BM? Thats an unfortunate nickname...

Anyways, my guess is that unless his hand is still really hurting him he'll see around 20 minutes, same with Smith (our starting PG so far this year). I imagine we'll see at least one lineup with both of them too.

DawgStyle
11-20-2008, 01:59 PM
I don't want to hype SIU's defense too much this year. This isn't the same team from 2 years ago that hung with Kansas, which may have been the best defense I have seen in 20 years.

This isn't that SIU team, most of those players are gone or graduated.

SIU's defense will be decent, not great. And against a team like Duke, it may look average, we'll see about that.

The biggest difference is this SIU team has little more offensive punch, than past teams. Will it be enough to off set the slip in defense? I don't know, that's why they play the games.

RainingThrees
11-20-2008, 01:59 PM
News on Paulus?? I don't see us looking ahead to the UCLA game after what happened during the Rhode island game and I expect a blow out.

Rabid Dog
11-20-2008, 02:09 PM
Paulus hasn't started once this year. His name is BM? Thats an unfortunate nickname...

Anyways, my guess is that unless his hand is still really hurting him he'll see around 20 minutes, same with Smith (our starting PG so far this year). I imagine we'll see at least one lineup with both of them too.

Fair enough. It sounds like we don't know each others teams well enough. If you haven't heard of Bryan Mullins, make sure to check out his game tonight, he is the epitome of what a point guard is supposed to be.

GoDawgs
11-20-2008, 02:11 PM
Duke's defense is in fact very dissimilar from the teams you name above. There is a reason you hear about Duke's pressure defense year in and year out. Now, if you had said UCLA, I would have conceded that point. Their defense is very similar man-to-man, ball pressure, denial fueled D... like ours.

Nothing against Duke but Kansas' D of two years ago was much better and played a pressure in your face D. I think Kansas was like 5th in points allowed that year and we were number 1. But this years team is not as good at D as the 06-07 team, that team gave up the fourth fewest points in College BB since 1965.

nyr484
11-20-2008, 02:12 PM
His name is BM? Thats an unfortunate nickname...

HAHAHA. Too bad that is going straight over the heads of 90% of the readers.

GoDawgs
11-20-2008, 02:18 PM
I don't want to hype SIU's defense too much this year. This isn't the same team from 2 years ago that hung with Kansas, which may have been the best defense I have seen in 20 years.

This isn't that SIU team, most of those players are gone or graduated.

SIU's defense will be decent, not great. And against a team like Duke, it may look average, we'll see about that.

The biggest difference is this SIU team has little more offensive punch, than past teams. Will it be enough to off set the slip in defense? I don't know, that's why they play the games.

Yes that is for sure this d is good, the 06-07 D was unreal 4th best ever in college BB since they kept track of the stat (since 1965). This team still has Mullins but nobody that can take out a player like Tony Young could. I think Hare or Roundtree could become that way on D but to early to tell right now. Another then to consider is that this team will push the ball a lot more and will not run down the shot clock as much. So just that alone will give the other team more chances on Offense.

JDev
11-20-2008, 02:20 PM
HAHAHA. Too bad that is going straight over the heads of 90% of the readers.

I don't know about that. It's not a difficult joke to get.

elvis14
11-20-2008, 02:26 PM
The keys to the Saluki's success will be Fay (6'8" forward) staying out of foul trouble early and their young guards (4 freshman/talented but young) taking care of the basketball and limiting turnovers. ... To have a chance, SIU has to play 11 guys and try to wear down Duke and be quicker at the end of the game than the Blue Devils.

Some players to watch:
Nick Evans (FR 6'11" 250lb): Raw in basketball skills but very athletic. He was a sprinter in HS and was said to be the fastest person in his school. Not a common trait for a 6’11” kid.

Brian Mullins: The SR guard is a known commodity and will have to control the tempo of the game and be the on-floor coach for the young guys to give SIU a chance.

Carlton Fay (SO 6'8" 235lb forward): Great skill set but young. Strong kid with a nice touch could present some match-up problems if SIU can still rebound well even when he looks for shots from the perimeter.

Kevin Dillard (FR guard): Great B-Ball IQ for a freshman and has shown flashes of the basketball brilliance that made him MR. Basketball in Illinois his SR year. Unfortunately he can get a bit ahead of himself sometimes and try to do too much...a combination of tendencies Lowry has coined as being "magical or tragical".

Tony Boyle (SR 6'8" 230lb): If he comes to play, and he usually does in big games, he could be a difference maker.
Best of luck to both teams. Here’s hoping everyone makes it out healthy.

Seems like every Saluki poster mentions that they go 11 to 12 players deep and are counting on wearing Duke down. Duke goes 12 deep, they are in great shape, they haven't played since Sunday. Don't count on Duke wearing down. We also hear mention of tough man to man defense. Have you watched Duke play? All we play is tough man to man defense. You know what we call physical man to man defense? Practice, b/c we see it every day and we have better athletes. Meaning, we will be more than ready for a tough man to man. Offensively we only really struggle when we miss our open 3's (see URI). One thing I would like to see is for to Duke come out stronger in the first 5-10 minutes in this game and establish themselves.

For you Saluki fans, some players to watch:
Kyle Singler (SO forward 6'8" 235#): Great B-Ball IQ. Tough as iron. You don't have anyone that can guard Kyle, he's money inside, outside, midrange. Plays good D and rebounds well. Clutch player as well. Shoots FT well. Kyle is really the player we want to keep out of foul trouble the most.

Jon Scheyer (JR guard 6'5" 185#): Great B-Ball IQ. Tough as iron. Often the primary ball handler on offense. On offense he does it all, outside, drives, midrange. On defense, he is just great. Clutch player as well. Shoots FT well. He's just one of those guys that's always around the ball and does the little things.

Gerald Henderson (JR G/F 6'4" 215): Stud. You don't have anyone that can guard G. Has started the season slow, he'll be looking to make up for that this weekend. You should hope he continues his slow start b/c if he doesn't, he's a game changer and it won't change in your favor!

Nolan Smith (SO G 6'2" 185#): Super quick combo guard learning to play the point. Won the starting job over a Sr. who was a 3 yr starter. Plays great on the ball D. Needs to look for his shot a bit more and look to create with his drive. When he does drive he is a quick jumper and finishes well.

Brian Zoubek (JR C 7'1" 280#): Big Z will cause match up problems. He boards well, scores OK. Doesn't have great hands. We basically have 3 guys sharing time at the 5, as needed. The other two are Lance Thomas and Miles Plumlee. Together they give us a solid inside presence. Not sure which will be starting.

Greg Paulus (SR G 6'1" 185#): Tough as iron. Great 3 point shooter. Plays with great heart. In the transition game, he makes good decisions and good passes. Clutch player as well. Shoots FT well. Yes, he has defensive issues. Fans of other teams hate him, we love that!

David McClure (SR F 6'6" 215#): Great B-Ball IQ. Great defender. Is quick enough to keep up with smaller players and use his size to give them issues. Is strong enough to bang with bigger players. He's finally healthy this season and it's showing! He's just one of those guys that's always around the ball and does the little things.

Mary Pocius (JR G/F 6'5" 190#): Fan favorite. Can shoot the 3, good at taking the ball to the hoop. Many feel that he could put up good numbers with more playing time but we can't sit Jon or G. Plays with good energy and looks to have improved his defense enough to get PT this year. Has had ankle injuries the last 2 years so we are looking forward seeing to what he can do when healthy.

Lance Thomas (JR F 6'8 220#): Shares time at the 5 with Brian and Miles. Very quick for his size. Plays defense really well in the open court. Great at playing trapping/pressure D. Looks to be much improved on offense, has been finishing strong this season.

Miles Plumlee (FR F/C 6'10" 235#): Very mobile for his size. Is sharing time at the 5 with Lance and Brian. Plays like a freshman at times but has been good enough to start some. We are still learning what we'll get from this guy but so far we are pleasantly surprised.

Elliot Williams (FR G 6'4 180#): Very athletic freshman. Had 11 boards in 14 minutes vs Ga. Southern. That was fun to watch. Has long arms and quick feet allowing him to play some pretty good D. Smooth with the ball, will be a great sorcerer. We are so deep at the wing, that you will see Elliot or Marty get significant playing time but not both.

Olek Czyz (FR F 6'7" 240#): Will be another fan favorite. A bit raw. Can jump out of the gym. You should hope you don't see Olek get significant playing time because if plays lots of minutes it means you got blown out!
There are others on the roster but those are the ones you should be MOST concerned about. We are deep, very deep, more so than SIU. I'm looking forward to this game to see how Duke responds to the tough URI game. Having such a tough game vs. URI really hurts SIU's chances. No chance of Duke coming in relatively flat or looking towards the UCLA game. Also, we got an early taste for handling pressure (which we did pretty darn well) and made the adjustments necessary to win a game when we were not hittin' the 3. Can Duke take it's game to the next level tonight? Will G show up and be the player we expected? Can SIU show up on fire like URI? Will Paulus play? Which team will make the first run and how will the other respond? I'm looking forward to finding out those questions and the other 8 I'm too lazy to post.

Good luck guys and thanks to all (well all but 1) the Saluki fans for the lively discussion. I like the knowledge and passion you have for your team and appreciate you sharing this week. Heck I feel like I've seen you play 3 times after reading all the stuff on here :D

GoDawgs
11-20-2008, 02:26 PM
HAHAHA. Too bad that is going straight over the heads of 90% of the readers.

After the game you will appreciate him I think. Even if he don't put up big #'s. He is a kid that works his butt off to get were he is. He is not a NBA type player, he is not big, fast or a great athlete. He makes up for it by being in excellent shape, understanding the fundamentals of the game and out working better players. Just a good kid all around, not just on the court, but as a student as well. He has a 4.0 gpa.

RaineyDevil
11-20-2008, 02:31 PM
SIU starts 4 guards and 1 forward. So that matches up well for us since we are a very guard oriented team, with a little bit of height in the middle this year. Our guards should be superior to theirs and G should have mis match opportunities with his athletic ability. Duke should look to get Zoubek/Thomas/Plumee involved downlow and pound the glass. Should be a good game for us.

GO DEVILS

GoDawgs
11-20-2008, 02:52 PM
SIU starts 4 guards and 1 forward. So that matches up well for us since we are a very guard oriented team, with a little bit of height in the middle this year. Our guards should be superior to theirs and G should have mis match opportunities with his athletic ability. Duke should look to get Zoubek/Thomas/Plumee involved downlow and pound the glass. Should be a good game for us.

GO DEVILS

This is not right at all. We start 3 guards. Fay and Boyle start down low. If anything we are stronger down low. As Fay is bigger then Singler and Boyle is better then Zoubek. Plus we have a 6'11" Evens and 6'8" Booker of the bench. I really think Thomas would be a better guy for you guys to start then Zoubek.

Rabid Dog
11-20-2008, 03:05 PM
SIU excels at taking charges, which Duke may learn rather quickly and then shy away from scoring that way. SIU should be a quicker team in general and this should be a boon for them, there is a chance we can ride this advantage to a W, or hell, maybe SIU will catch fire, we do have a few great shooters. And I hope these young guys at SIU can start of their careers off beating a prestigous program like Duke's. It is common knowledge (amongst SIU fans) that SIU has the better recruiting class they've had in a long time, or perhaps ever...we have guys who can score, period. It won't be a pushover for Duke, trust me. Prepare for a great game.

elvis14
11-20-2008, 03:23 PM
It won't be a pushover for Duke, trust me. Prepare for a great game.

We do NOT expect SIU to be a pushover. Especially on the heels of the URI game. Everybody brings their A game to Duke so we get to constantly prepare for a great game. It's a curse and a blessing. Heck that URI game was a great game.

Is it 7:00 yet? This board is going to get me fired!

GoDawgs
11-20-2008, 03:34 PM
Well it was great talking about the game. But its time to start getting ready for game time. Beer, pizza and a big screen TV at the frat house.

Here is to a great game and no injuries. Talk to you tomorrow win or lose.

Rabid Dog
11-20-2008, 03:36 PM
We do NOT expect SIU to be a pushover. Especially on the heels of the URI game. Everybody brings their A game to Duke so we get to constantly prepare for a great game. It's a curse and a blessing. Heck that URI game was a great game.

Is it 7:00 yet? This board is going to get me fired!

It's just smack talkin time. It's time to be confident in your team you know, time to make it look like you expect them to win in the event that they do win. I just hope my team can back up the things I've said about them, you know...cause I know they're capable of it, but will they have a good night...time will tell. I hope both teams are at their best actually.

RepoMan
11-20-2008, 03:59 PM
Mad props to the Saluki fans for their well-mannered invasion of the board. Has there ever been so much pregame banter with a foe?

slower
11-20-2008, 04:05 PM
One thing to note, for SIU fans who might not be familiar with this year's Duke team:

Duke is NOT a soft team. Singler, Smith and Paulus, in particular, will not back down from anybody. ANYBODY.

It will be interesting to see just how "physical" things get. Hopefully, the game won't deteriorate to Miami/VT-level thuggery.

Carlos
11-20-2008, 04:49 PM
Nothing against Duke but Kansas' D of two years ago was much better and played a pressure in your face D. I think Kansas was like 5th in points allowed that year and we were number 1. But this years team is not as good at D as the 06-07 team, that team gave up the fourth fewest points in College BB since 1965.

Total points allowed is a really blunt measure of a defense. For years NC State was one of the leading teams in the ACC in points allowed but that was greatly enhanced by the Princeton offense that they played. If your team averages 70 ppg on offense then giving up 60 ppg on defense doesn't necessarily indicate a great defensive team.

throatybeard
11-20-2008, 04:49 PM
Mad props to the Saluki fans for their well-mannered invasion of the board. Has there ever been so much pregame banter with a foe?

Not since the new software, certainly.

The constant assertions that Duke is taking SIU lightly are really annoying.

BlueintheFace
11-20-2008, 05:08 PM
Not since the new software, certainly.

The constant assertions that Duke is taking SIU lightly are really annoying.

Agreed about the second comment, but out of curiosity... how many invasions have their been on this board?

Wasn't there the great Kentucky invasion a long time ago and lesser known Terrapin assault not long after. I've been on and off the board for awhile, but I don't go nearly far enough back to have a complete history... Can somebody give a brief history of DBR board warfare (preferably related as though written in a history textbook by a british professor)

RainingThrees
11-20-2008, 05:17 PM
40 till the game. Excited to finally see a game on the tv and not on the net.

ChicagoSaluki
11-20-2008, 05:31 PM
Welcome to the big show, Salukis

Thursday, November 20, 2008 | Print Entry


Posted by Andy Katz (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3714838&name=katz_andy)

NEW YORK -- Southern Illinois, desperate to get on a national stage prior to March, needed play in high-profile, televised nonconference games prior to the NCAA tournament to increase its visibility and credibility...

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ChicagoSaluki
11-20-2008, 05:33 PM
Alright, time to bury the hatchet and watch some baskeball.

Rabid Dog
11-20-2008, 05:57 PM
It's not too obvious that this game might mean more to SiU fans than Duke fans is it?:D

Lotus000
11-20-2008, 06:03 PM
Is there a chat tonight? Didn't see a link anywhere.

BTW, The General is calling the game? This'll be interesting....

grossbus
11-20-2008, 06:12 PM
half court O again MIA.


the garden is EMPTY!

Lotus000
11-20-2008, 06:14 PM
half court O again MIA.


the garden is EMPTY!

Yeah, I noticed that, too. It'll be filling up more by halftime, and tomorrow night will be more packed. Still, it IS Thursday in NYC, you'd think there'd be more people there.

Where the heck is our offense right now, back in Durham?

dukebsbll14
11-20-2008, 06:22 PM
Where the heck is our offense right now, back in Durham?

It must be...This going scoreless for 5 minutes thing is not working

Lotus000
11-20-2008, 06:26 PM
Oh my Lord, Zoubek had a good three minute stretch there!

If he can get those happy feet under control, maybe he can start jumping and being strong...he looks (this is the first game I've been able to watch) WAY stronger and actually slightly fierce this year. Me likey.

grossbus
11-20-2008, 06:35 PM
there isn't much else to like.


we look awful. this is the SAME offense he had in durham.

dukebsbll14
11-20-2008, 06:36 PM
hmmm ok....

when did we find that it was acceptable to turn the ball over all the time?? Is this just very good So Ill defense (cause theirs is pretty good) or have we suddenly forgotten how to take care of the ball?

Dr. Rosenrosen
11-20-2008, 06:37 PM
Are those impostors out there wearing Duke uniforms? What in the world is going on?!?

dukebsbll14
11-20-2008, 06:40 PM
its Bob Knight...the last two Duke games he's seen Duke has played terrible lol

But seriously,

I think its about time for Coach K to get on these guys' butt and tell them to wake up cause if we play like this in ACC play, expect another season like 06-07 (maybe worse)

dairedevil
11-20-2008, 06:46 PM
Foul, foul, turnover, turnover, foul...turnover...foul, foul....I would love to see some dribble, pass, score!
Maybe K will fix things in the 2nd half.
The one positive I've seen is Zoubek.

Cavlaw
11-20-2008, 06:48 PM
Zoulbek is having a great game, I think.

The offense definitely looks out of synch, but it doesn't appear to be caused by the Saluki defense. There's not a lot of ball pressure, our guys just don't seem to have their heads up to see the court more than an arm length away.

Cdog923
11-20-2008, 06:58 PM
This team looks terrible right now.

grossbus
11-20-2008, 06:58 PM
more turnovers than FG's..

that sums it up.

what is up with hendu? 4th game in a row it is like he isn't there mentally.

hendu, singler and paulus with 0 points. yikes.

Dr. Rosenrosen
11-20-2008, 06:59 PM
Zoulbek is having a great game, I think.

The offense definitely looks out of synch, but it doesn't appear to be caused by the Saluki defense. There's not a lot of ball pressure, our guys just don't seem to have their heads up to see the court more than an arm length away.

They look flustered and unsure of themselves. I don't get it. Thank god SIU can't hit an outside shot.

Sixthman
11-20-2008, 07:00 PM
No case to be made that SIU made us look bad either. I'm guessing a different team comes out for the next half.

miramar
11-20-2008, 07:00 PM
Thank God for free throws?

Has Zoubek lost weight? He's looks thinner to me. Definitely player of the half.

arnie
11-20-2008, 07:04 PM
That was certainly a team effort on offense - think every player probably had a turnover.

Is something physically wrong with Henderson?? He has passed up 5-10 foot shots that he would have taken last year.

Though Zoubek and Plumlee looked pretty good - the announcers struggled keeping up with who was in the game.

grossbus
11-20-2008, 07:04 PM
it is SO nice having someone do color analysis that actually does analysis. knight is great. keep dickie v. in tampa.

dukebb444
11-20-2008, 07:05 PM
take it easy guys..... hell it's only the 4th game of the season! negatives= to's, so i've seen more positives than negatives. we are winning with no points from singler nor henderson. zoubek has looked good, along with miles although he was caught out of position a time or two. elliot i thought looked good as well. we duke fans are way to harsh at times. set back enjoy the season and remember who the coach is. "KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK"

grossbus
11-20-2008, 07:09 PM
"negatives= to's"

and half court offense. i think that is what concerns us (certainly ME) most.

dukebb444
11-20-2008, 07:14 PM
"negatives= to's"

and half court offense. i think that is what concerns us (certainly ME) most.


agree! half court offense has looked terrible. i do like the amount of points in the paint the last couple of games.

Lavabe
11-20-2008, 07:15 PM
Zoubs and Lance made free throws, and played well.

How cool is that!:cool:

miramar
11-20-2008, 07:24 PM
Was that Nolan Smith or Dahntay Jones?