Expand Cameron Indoor?

[TwoDukeTattoos]

To be more flush with our competitors in regards to the size and amenities of home courts, and to allow an increase of attendance by thousands of fans who are simply unable to ever get a ticket due to the small size of the gym, should Duke consider expanding Cameron Indoor? Of course, this couldn't be done without tearing down walls and ceilings, but has the time finally come?

[Kedsy]

To be more flush with our competitors in regards to the size and amenities of home courts, and to allow an increase of attendance by thousands of fans who are simply unable to ever get a ticket due to the small size of the gym, should Duke consider expanding Cameron Indoor? Of course, this couldn't be done without tearing down walls and ceilings, but has the time finally come?

The few people I know who have a connection to the UNC program all lament the demise of Charmichael gym. State certainly hasn't had any sort of resurgence since they junked Reynolds. Bigger is rarely better, at least where basketball arenas are concerned. Except for revenue, of course, but I don't think Duke's basketball program is hurting in that regard. If Cameron were falling apart it might negatively affect recruting, but it isn't. I assume prospective recruits would enjoy a small gym where the noise reaches jet engine levels a lot more than they would a larger, sanitized arena where they serve wine and cheese.

[TwoDukeTattoos]

Very nice response! Should Duke, perhaps, install blue seats to enhance the atmosphere of "team"?

[watzone]

This will never happen. Expect some spruce ups, but Cameron will remain pretty much as is. I wouldn't be surprised to see the birds nest (Bob and company) get an upgrade. Maybe, that is maybe there will be some new seats in the way of luxury boxes. It will not add a significant number of people though.

[lifelongdevil]

as seen by the recent debate over attendance on this board and from Coach K's comments about empty seats, I'm not sure Duke could consistently fill a bigger arena. Yes we have a huge fanbase nation wide, but the number of prospective season ticket holders in this area doesn't strike me as huge. While a bigger arena would be unbelievable for a few games a year, I think it would detract from the rest, unless ticket prices in the new upper deck were vastly reduced.

[RainingThrees]

Its too expensive to get into games, all for it.

[jimsumner]

Duke looked into this a few years ago and determined that it was practically impossible to expand Cameron.

More cost effective to build a new facility.

And they aren't going to do that, either.

The idea that you can't get into Cameron without a second mortgage is a myth. Big games, sure. But most games you can buy tickets outside at or below face if you're patient.

[SilkyJ]

nowayjose. Its the best gym in college bball, and the size is part of what makes the crazies so effective.

At some point, we're gonna have to build a new gym, but it sounds like it won't be anytime soon. K said he wants to coach another 10 years, and I would bet we see him finish out in cameron.

[bill brill]

it is HIGHLY unlikely that much will ever be done to the upstairs seats. not cost effective at all, and there would be fewer seats. much of what may be done will be cosmetic.

[Truth]

as seen by the recent debate over attendance on this board and from Coach K's comments about empty seats, I'm not sure Duke could consistently fill a bigger arena. Yes we have a huge fanbase nation wide, but the number of prospective season ticket holders in this area doesn't strike me as huge. While a bigger arena would be unbelievable for a few games a year, I think it would detract from the rest, unless ticket prices in the new upper deck were vastly reduced.

Ditto. Let's fill the space we have now for every game before we start expanding for the handful of prime games...

[CameronBornAndBred]

Yes we have a huge fanbase nation wide, but the number of prospective season ticket holders in this area doesn't strike me as huge.

Considering that only a small number of people can afford the thousands of dollars required for season tickets, it is not surprising the number is small. That being said, they should leave Cameron as it is.

[footballfan2]

how can you make it bigger when 10-20% of the seats are empty? And don't give me the expensive stuff either, because student seats (free!) are just as empty.

[CameronBornAndBred]

And don't give me the expensive stuff either, because student seats (free!) are just as empty.

They aren't free, they cost $45,000. :D

[RaineyDevil]

as seen by the recent debate over attendance on this board and from Coach K's comments about empty seats, I'm not sure Duke could consistently fill a bigger arena. Yes we have a huge fanbase nation wide, but the number of prospective season ticket holders in this area doesn't strike me as huge. While a bigger arena would be unbelievable for a few games a year, I think it would detract from the rest, unless ticket prices in the new upper deck were vastly reduced.


Plus the fact that season tix are only offered to higher end Iron Dukes. They dont offer a 5-10 game package as other ACC schools do, to public non affiliated members of society. I think the reason the seats are empty is b/c is it hard for the average Duke fan to find a recycled season ticket without sometimes paying an arm and a leg to scalpers. I wish i could help offer a solution to the empty seat/ticket problem.

[RaineyDevil]

and NO they shouldn't expand Cameron. Too much of the atmosphere is created around the small, on top of you arena.

[Lord Ash]

Heck no. Judging by the new football facilities and the new basketball practice facilities, we have no revenue problem, and if recruits want fancy... well, that is what the practice facilities are for. Tradition and excellence and atmosphere and yes, exclusivity, MEAN something, IMO. You want a big empty-feeling arena full of piped in noise and flashy jumbotrons? Go to State.

[Rudy]

You didn't include "build new facility" in your choices, so I didn't vote. I would vote no on expanding Cameron, but a new facility can be built and still preserve some of what's good about CIS.

The problem with building something bigger, as some folks have mentioned, is that there isn't a large population around to support large crowds consistently. There is the competition for relatively neutral potential customers with Chapel Hill nearby. Plus, Duke is one of the smaller ACC schools in undergraduate student population at 6,300.

Consider other ACC facilities:

It seems there is consensus that the Dean Dome is too big with its capacity of 21,750, despite a large undergraduate student population of over 23,000.

The Maryland Comcast Center was done right with a capacity of almost 18,000 and the student seats are near the floor:

"The student section contains 4000 seats arranged in the first ten rows on all sides of the arena, plus the most notable feature of the arena, the steeply pitched seating area at the west end of the arena behind the visiting team’s second half basket, informally known as “The Wall.” Originally designed to reduce excavation costs due to a hill, the area features 2600 student seats meant to intimidate opposing players who shoot free throws in the second half." (Wikipedia)But the undergraduate population of U. Md. is 26,000 and D.C. is very nearby, so it is fairly easy to fill.

The new John Paul Jones Arena at U. Virginia seats 15,219 for basketball and features coaches' office complexes, locker rooms, a training room, a strength and conditioning area and an equipment room. However, again U.Va. undergraduate enrollment is double that of Duke's at 14,000. Plus, D.C. and the northern Virginia suburbs are just 2 hours drive away. I bought a 5 game series of seats this season. I do not know yet how they manage their students at the games.

Wake's Joel Memorial Coliseum seats 14,400 and is usually pretty full as I understand. I expect it will be this year since the team is pretty good. Wake, however, horribly mismanages the student seats. The "Screamin' Deacons" are boisterous but they are put in one corner and the numbers are limited to 2,250 out of a total undergraduate enrollment of 4,400. Skip Prosser did a great job of boosting student interest in the team, and of course having Chris Paul there helped quite a bit for a couple of years, too.

But Wake's example on size alone is encouraging for a new Duke facility. It wouldn't have to have all the auxiliary facilities such as practice gyms, with Duke's new practice facility in place. However, it could serve as a multi-function facility as many of the other larger arenas do, with concerts, university-wide gatherings, commencement in case of rain or unbearable heat, etc.

CIS is a shrine, of course, with many great memories. One of my own was the first time I set foot in it a little over 4 years ago last summer when I was taking my son around on college tours. The two of us got in when it was empty and we walked out on the floor, both of us awestruck as basketball fans. I think he decided at that moment Duke was the place for him.

But a new place would develop its own memories as time and seasons come and go. The Maryland Comcast arena should be the model for student seating. They are close to the court and surround it. The Crazies could still be loud and boisterous in that kind of configuration. That arena configuration has nothing to do with how obnoxious Maryland fans are, the worst in the ACC in my book.

[CLT Devil]

Never ever. Of course maybe one year we'll have to do something if the building falls in on itself, but why mess with what is regarded as one of the best sporting venues on the planet? There are tickets to be had...like another poster said; you don't have to pay a ridiculous amount of money to get one, at least for a non-ACC game.

I've been to games at the Dean Dome and RBC Center and to be honest it feels more like an NBA game. In the 'Dome the Whine and Cheese get all the close seats so it's not nearly as loud. I think Michigan State and Clemson both said they wanted their arenas to be more like Cameron when they built them. I see no reason to do anything at all to Cameron.

Last year I went to the Notre Dame v Duke football game and that was pretty wild...the wooden seats are literally rotting away and full of splinters, the scoreboard is from the 1960's or so, the space between the out of bounds line on the field and the first row of seats is no more than 15 feet...all of this is what makes it so great.

I hope in my lifetime they will never replace Cameron, but then gain I have been blessed to be able to go to games there every year since I was a kid, so I can understand for those who have a hard time getting a ticket...but then again, exclusivity adds to the aura behind CIS.

[weezie]

Let me ask the good people of DBR: a few times in the last couple of years we put our ID tickets on the ticket exchange board here. No one responded and then it was too late to turn them back into the ID office.
I'm not looking to make any money, I just want the tickets used. Should I be insisting on an early contact deadline? Do others here check the ticket exchange board that often?

[CLT Devil]

I've never used the exchange board, so I don't know. However, I always call Mary Dinkins and even at the last minute she can find someone to use the tickets. I don't get paid for them, but they do not go to waste.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Let me ask the good people of DBR: a few times in the last couple of years we put our ID tickets on the ticket exchange board here. No one responded and then it was too late to turn them back into the ID office.
I'm not looking to make any money, I just want the tickets used. Should I be insisting on an early contact deadline? Do others here check the ticket exchange board that often?

I would say if you know weeks in advance that you will not be there, put them up. If you have not had response getting closer to the turn in deadline then go ahead and do so.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

No! Never!

[kinghoops]

No! Never!

my sentiments exactly!!!!!!

[Newton_14]

Does anyone know why the tv announcers are not allowed to be courtside at CIS, like other arenas? I have always wondered about that.

[kinghoops]

Does anyone know why the tv announcers are not allowed to be courtside at CIS, like other arenas? I have always wondered about that.

just a guess, but where would you put them courtside???

[weezie]

Does anyone know why the tv announcers are not allowed to be courtside at CIS, like other arenas? I have always wondered about that.


Because they would be completely drowned out by the Crazies?

[TwoDukeTattoos]

I hear a lot of noise from Nursery Blues regarding the grandeur of their precious powder blue Dean Dome and how Duke’s humble, historic gym doesn’t compare. True, the Dean Dome more than doubles Cameron’s seating capacity, but volume alone doesn’t necessarily equate to a consistently electric atmosphere. So, I compiled the opinions of a few unbiased sources who have actually been to a few arenas across the country. Bad news to the Nursery Blues: The information below reiterates why they've been labeled the Whine and Cheese crowd. MAN, IT'S GOOD TO BE A DUKE FAN!

CBS College Sports ranked Cameron Indoor as the #1 college hoops venue in the country. The Doomed Dome didn’t make the list.

http://cstv.collegesports.com/bestof/category.php?cid=16

Sports Illustrated ranked their top 10 venues of ALL college sports, regardless of the sport. Cameron Indoor Stadium ranked #2. The Doomed Dome didn’t make the list.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0707/campus.top10.venues/content.9.html

Several ESPN writers picked Cameron Indoor as one of their top-5 college hoops venue. The Doomed Dome didn’t make any list.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=1974962

On Collegehoopsnet.com, the writer covers a story by ESPN. Cameron Indoor appeared multiple times as one of the top venues in college hoops. Of the 26 venues selected, the Doomed Dome received ZERO votes.

http://www.collegehoopsnet.com/story/best_college_arena_atmosphere27658

Of course, none of this means much if it doesn’t equate to wins. Duke has a home court record of 675-141 for a winning percentage of .827 while the Doomed Dome has a home court record of 176-27 for a winning percentage of .867. So, UNC’s winning percentage is slightly higher. But I’ll take the court with proven excellence over 68 years as opposed to 22.

GO DUKE!