10 Greatest College Shooters to be Named

[lavell12]

During the final four pre game show CBS will unvail its list of the 10 greatest college shooters and JJ is to be one of them.

http://www.nba.com/magic/news/Redick_to_be_Featured_on_CBS_P-217689-800.html

I think its should be a tie between JJ and Pistol Pete for number 1.

[ShowMeFan]

Interesting list. While Lew Alcindor was a great player, I never really thought of him as a great "shooter." On the other hand, maybe I don't have an accurate understanding of what they mean when they say "shooter." Does anyone have a good definition of the difference between a shooter and a scorer - besides the obvious point that the ball must go through the net to score?

[hurleyfor3]

Hurley and Laettner belong on that list if one criterion is making shots when it really mattered.

[rsvman]

A lot of incredible shooters on that list. Are you sure JJ made the final 10? No way Maravich isn't on it. Jerry West was the greatest clutch shooter of all time. Larry Bird off the list? Doubt it. Oscar Robertson?

Wow. I don't know if I'd count JJ in for sure unless you have an inside source.

[Troublemaker]

JJ probably has an advantage since his career ended so recently.

Lots of great shooters missing from that list. Among ACC players, I would've added Rodney Monroe and Randolph Childress.

[adam]

How can you forget about the "Alaskan Assassin"? Trajan Langdon was one of the best 'shooters' Duke has ever had.

[adam]

Hurley and Laettner belong on that list if one criterion is making shots when it really mattered.

Laettner is on the list, by the way.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Laettner is on the list, by the way.

And there are those here among us that would argue for Bob Verga to be on the list too. And rightly so.

[GMR]

And there are those here among us that would argue for Bob Verga to be on the list too. And rightly so.

I realize that the article stated that the list was partial, but I have been following college basketball for about 50 years, and the person I would name as the greatest shooter is Rick Mount of Purdue. He played about the same time as Maravich, and I have seen both play numerous times, both in person and on TV, and I have seen no better shooter than Mount. I would be shocked if he weren't among the top 10.

GMR

[Cameron]

I don't know if I'd count JJ in for sure unless you have an inside source.

Well, if JJ is not on the list then I am turning off the television and not taking CBS seriously anymore. If being college basketball's all-time leading three-point shooter with 457 career triples (which is an amazing of average of 114.5 threes per season) is not enough, then please tell me what the qualifications would be. Because I would love to know.

[hurleyfor3]

Well, if JJ is not on the list then I am turning off the television and not taking CBS seriously anymore.

You really need something basketball-related to do that?

[YmoBeThere]

a shooter or a scorer? And are my memories of him clouded by a few magnificent seconds he had against the Tar Holes in '88-'89 at home?

[ricks68]

Ozzie,

Could you (or any one else) scan the picture of Verga on page 126 of the 1967 yearbook and put it up with the picture from the website mentioned in the first post. It's uncanny. Carbon copy. Case closed.

ricks

[rsvman]

Well, if JJ is not on the list then I am turning off the television and not taking CBS seriously anymore. If being college basketball's all-time leading three-point shooter with 457 career triples (which is an amazing of average of 114.5 threes per season) is not enough, then please tell me what the qualifications would be. Because I would love to know.

You can't be serious. You realize, of course, that there WAS no three-point shot for years and years. When Maravich played, there was no such thing as a 3-pointer. And yet he AVERAGED about 45 points a game. Somebody should go back and watch all the games that are on tape and give the guy three points every time he hit a jumper beyond 20 feet and see what his point average would have been in today's game.

Besides, good shooting is not just about making threes. JJ's percentage was certainly not the best in college basketball history. He tossed up a lot of threes. I've been watching college basketball for over 40 years. I've seen a lot of great shooters. I'll grant you that when JJ was on, he was about as good as it gets. But JJ was a streaky shooter, as we all know. And when he was off, he was off pretty badly. I never saw Maravich have a game like JJ's against Kansas, for example (he may have had such a game, but I never saw it).

[ricks68]

They have been showing a half hour series of programs on Pistol Pete every weekend for a while now. I suggest you all tune in and watch the greatest of all time. He was a shooter AND a scorer. Bird, Mount, and West would also have to be at the top for me. Laettner would have to be the #1 clutch man for me, as he has the proof by doing it over and over again in the NCAA's most important games. And in the greatest college game ever played, he was PERFECT! (Sorry, had to shout it.)

Oh, and what does this have to do with Colorado, by the way?

ricks

[jimbonelson]

if pistol pete is not number 1 the count is not legit ...a couple other names chris mullin and steve alford were great shooters

[Cameron]

I wasn't inferring that JJ was better than guys like Maravich or Bird or Mount. I was just saying that, considering everything JJ was able to accomplish, all of those incredible numbers that will probably never be broken, he deserves to be on the list. CBS is going to add somebody from the past 15 to 20 years on their list, and JJ would, IMO, be the logical choice. I would take Alford, Mullin, Laettner, and Redick from the past quarter century, and then pick the rest from the older guys from the previous era. The Maravich's, the Birds, the Mounts, etc. That's just my opinion.

[johnnydakota]

I love this debate. Certainly people like Mount, Maravich, Bird, etc.. would've put up untouchable numbers with a three point line. In defense of more recent players, like JJ, they have faced more athletic defenders and a much broader range of talent throughout college basketball. Alford and Mullin were just pure. Ray Allen, Glen Rice, and Jerry West would be in my top 10 as well. I still need one more. Very interesting....

[Cameron]

^^Ray Allen is also a very good choice. And, even though he played for that goon up in Storrs, I always like Ray. He was one hell of a player. Would have loved to have him Durham.

I think the real problem with this list is that it is too short:) Way too many great shooters who could be added. But, I guess that's what makes this such a great debate. One could also argue that Steve Kerr should be added. He shot something like 57 percent from three as a senior at Arizona. Incredible. Wow, there are just so many guys who are worthy...

[dukemsu]

Great debate. These are the fun kinds of things that CBS and ESPN should do more of, in my opinion.

Top 5 I've Seen: (I've only been watching since 82)

1. Mullin
2. Alford
3. Laettner
4. Rice
5. Allen

JJ's #6 for me. Great as he was, that's where I'd have him. Laettner's a tough call and there's no way he'll be in the top 10, but he was reliable in all phases (2pt, 3pt, and FT) and his resume of clutch shots should put him up there. If Jordan's listed the list loses credibility for me. His J was actually his weakness for a long, long time. I know, he hit a wide open J in 82 that was incredibly clutch, but overall, his midrange/longrange game was not that great while in college.

As an aside, I have no idea how Steve Smith is on this list. And I'm a Spartan who loves Steve for his career and what he's done for the school, but as K might say, C'mon.

dukemsu

[MusicCityDevil]

CBS announced during the earlier stages of their Final Four show that due to tennis running over into the Final Four Show, the Top 10 Greatest Shooters will not be revealed until Sunday, May 13 at (I believe) 3:30 ET (not 100% sure, but it's sometime that afternoon)

[Cameron]

^^That sucks as I was really looking forward to watching that. I'm going to go out on the limb and guess I will never remind myself to turn on "College Basketball's Ten Greatest Shooters" at 3:30 in the afternoon on May 13th. Just a hunch. I'll probably be walking through Duane Reade's or something looking for gladware.

[captmojo]

Hey Oz, what'ya think Verga could have done with a 3 point line? Vacindek also comes to mind. This 'ol world didn't start in 1980.

[Cameron]

This 'ol world didn't start in 1980.

Yeah, but right around 1980 there was a seldom remembered kid by the moniker of Chip Engelland who was pretty good. He made 55 percent from beyond the experimental arc during the 1982-83 season. Can you imagine if he would of had the three-ball his entire career?

[ricks68]

Vacendak is the correct spelling. He was a fantastic defender and good passer. Good drives to the basket and had a good outside shot when needed. He was the high scorer with over 20 pts 6 times when both Verga and Marin were also in the game during the '64-'65 season. Had one 32 pt outing also during that time in a 5 pt win over Wake. Outstanding ball handler. He broke the famous UCLA press all by himself by just dribbling through it when we beat them in back to back games at home and in Charlotte early in the '65-'66 season.

Verga probably would have conservatively averaged about 4 to 6 more points a game if the 3 pt line existed, I believe. Maybe even more. He could have very well been the all-time Duke scorer if they had allowed frosh to play varsity and had a 3 pt line. (But that's a lot of if's) Jumbo, your take?

ricks

[jimsumner]

Actually, there are even more ifs than that.

Redick v. Verga benefitted from

3-point shot
4-year eligibility
shot clock
longer seasons
More post-season teams.

Let me elaborate on the latter. Duke went 20-5 in 1965 but did not play in the postseason. Duke played 30 games in 1966 and that included the Final Four consolation game. 27 games in 1967. Duke played more games per season in the 2000s than in the 1960s.

So Verga could have averaged more ppg but had fewer total points that Redick.

Verga was a great shooter, with great range. Six 3's per game isn't realistic, imo,, but four is.

Marin probably was a better 3-point threat than Vacendak, btw.

[greybeard]

Cotton Nash, Kentucky '62 or '63;
Bobby Llyod, Rutgers ditto;
Bobby Lewis & Larry Miller, I forget for a second, late 60s;
Louie Dampier, Kentucky '65
Elvin Hayes, Houston '67
JoJo White, Kansas, '65
Barry Krammer, NYU '63

Every guard on the early Celtics except KC: Sam, Cousey, Sharmon, Ramsey, Tommy Heinsohn, and Willie Naules as forwards

Just counting his fad aways, Wilt;
Just counting his hook shots, Bill;
Just counting his game against Memphis, Bill

This is fun, but silly. GEICO, they will get their money out of you!

[Saratoga2]

Great debate. These are the fun kinds of things that CBS and ESPN should do more of, in my opinion.

Top 5 I've Seen: (I've only been watching since 82)

1. Mullin
2. Alford
3. Laettner
4. Rice
5. Allen

JJ's #6 for me. Great as he was, that's where I'd have him. Laettner's a tough call and there's no way he'll be in the top 10, but he was reliable in all phases (2pt, 3pt, and FT) and his resume of clutch shots should put him up there. If Jordan's listed the list loses credibility for me. His J was actually his weakness for a long, long time. I know, he hit a wide open J in 82 that was incredibly clutch, but overall, his midrange/longrange game was not that great while in college.

As an aside, I have no idea how Steve Smith is on this list. And I'm a Spartan who loves Steve for his career and what he's done for the school, but as K might say, C'mon.

dukemsu

A lot of guys on the board are younger and probably don't remember some of the great pure shooters from the NBA. Jo Jo White was a prime example of someone who could drain a pull up jumper better than most I have seen. There were others like Charmin and the Iceman. A list like the top ten shooters is bound to leave off some of the greatest ones, whose only problem is that they were great too many years ago.

[Jfrosh]

a shooter or a scorer? And are my memories of him clouded by a few magnificent seconds he had against the Tar Holes in '88-'89 at home?

A'hh Dennis Scott, probably my favorite Non-Duke player of all time. He was definitely a shooter. Had one of the smoothest shots I've ever seen.

[Ggallagher]

Ozzie,

Could you (or any one else) scan the picture of Verga on page 126 of the 1967 yearbook and put it up with the picture from the website mentioned in the first post. It's uncanny. Carbon copy. Case closed.

ricks

Here's the photo you asked for from the 1967 yearbook.

Glen

[Troublemaker]

Dennis Scott. Forgot about him! Yes, he could fill it up.