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DukieInBrasil
11-13-2008, 08:57 AM
Josh didn´t play at all in the first few games but has played sparingly in each of the last 2, and has not played poorly. 2ppg and 2rpg. Some people thought he wouldn´t ever play this year, but he is, albeit sparingly.

Oriole Way
11-13-2008, 09:20 AM
Josh didn´t play at all in the first few games but has played sparingly in each of the last 2, and has not played poorly. 2ppg and 2rpg. Some people thought he wouldn´t ever play this year, but he is, albeit sparingly.

The huge mistake he made by leaving early grows by the day. He'd be playing much more this year if he had left a year later as a higher draft pick.

Bluedog
11-13-2008, 09:26 AM
The huge mistake he made by leaving early grows by the day. He'd be playing much more this year if he had left a year later as a higher draft pick.

Well, if he had left a year earlier he would have also been a much higher draft pick. ;) (was projected to go in top 12, I believe) Not saying he would have been doing better in the NBA - just that draft position isn't always indicative of how a player will play in the NBA in case that wasn't obvious already.

hq2
11-13-2008, 09:38 AM
McRoberts would have done better leaving earlier, before the NBA figured out that his skills were not going to grow to match his athletic ability (see Joakim Noah). They often draft on potential, not knowing if it will ever be realized.

That being said, I don't think we really miss him that much, although he might have been helpful late last year. He had attitude problems, and wasn't developing into a really good low post player. This year, he won't be missed at all.

houstondukie
11-13-2008, 09:43 AM
The huge mistake he made by leaving early grows by the day. He'd be playing much more this year if he had left a year later as a higher draft pick.

I agree.

I think Josh would have developed some post moves if he stayed a season longer and could have potentially jumped back into the first round with a good Junior season. Josh needed a lot of work when it came to scoring in the post, but people forget how good, if not great, he was at almost everything else - exceptional vision, great shotblocking, the ball-handling of a gaurd, and great athleticism.

In my opinion, even though he would have a received a huge paycheck as a lottery pick, Josh leaving after his freshmen season would have lead to an extremely short NBA career anyway. Had he stayed at Duke for 3 or 4 years (he made up his mind in high school that he was staying at most 2 years) he would have developed into a better NBA player and would have made more money in the long-run.

We don't miss him this year, but there were many times last year that I wished we had him. We were a big man away from making a big run last year. He would of been perfect for the "Phoenix Suns" type offense.

Diddy
11-13-2008, 09:56 AM
Josh's problem is not a lack of post moves. He is scared of physical play. There is no place in the league for a 6-11 guy who wants to float on the perimeter. Another year in college wouldn't have fixed his problems.

houstondukie
11-13-2008, 11:14 AM
Josh's problem is not a lack of post moves. He is scared of physical play. There is no place in the league for a 6-11 guy who wants to float on the perimeter. Another year in college wouldn't have fixed his problems.

You could say the same thing about Ryan Kelly or Mason Plumnee. I think its wrong to say Josh couldn't have become more of an inside player with another year or two in college. Part of the problem was he needed to gain more strength, just like Kelly and Plumnee need to.

greybeard
11-13-2008, 11:29 AM
McRob had back surgery before he was 21. He is playing on borrowed time. Surgery does not make everything all better, especially surgery on one's back. I am happy for McRob that he is getting to earn playing the game; I hope it lasts long enough for him to put a really, really good (by normal people's standards) nest egg away for himself.

We will never know how good McRob would have been had the back problems that ultimately required surgery not taken the real promise away. We never saw that McRob, nor will we ever.

Hurray that there is enough talent and fortitude there to allow him to be in the NBA. Each day is a gift.

ncexnyc
11-13-2008, 11:34 AM
It's amazing how some people act towards a player who leaves Duke early. They remind me of a jilted lover who can't get over the fact that they are no longer wanted.

Josh was a very talented player who was often described in telecasts by the various announcers as a stat sheet stuffer. I will concede that he wasn't a great scorer and from what I've read it appears he had an attitude problem.

Would he have helped us last year? Based on the up tempo offense that was run last year, most definitely. Can anyone honestly say he wouldn't have helped on the defensive end as well.

Is everyone so in love with what we currently are getting out of the post to say he wouldn't be better at this stage of his career and that he couldn't be a solid contributor?

Rudy
11-13-2008, 04:20 PM
You could say the same thing about Ryan Kelly or Mason Plumnee. I think its wrong to say Josh couldn't have become more of an inside player with another year or two in college. Part of the problem was he needed to gain more strength, just like Kelly and Plumnee need to.
I have mixed feelings about piling onto Josh, since I wish him well. However, when he had the opportunity to develop a post game over the summer between his frosh and sophomore year, knowing that Duke needed someone to step in for the departed Shelden, he didn't. The only real change I saw in his game into his second year was that he developed a between-the-legs dribble on the run. I read that as an attitude problem and scuttlebutt I have heard since confirmed it.

miramar
11-13-2008, 09:23 PM
Josh's problem is not a lack of post moves. He is scared of physical play. There is no place in the league for a 6-11 guy who wants to float on the perimeter. Another year in college wouldn't have fixed his problems.

If there is no place in the league for a 6-11 guy who wants to float on the perimeter, it only gets worse if he doesn't have an outside shot to top it all off.

I always thought that he would do well to develop a hook shot, but I guess that makes me old school. But if you don't have post moves or an outside shot...

As far as him returning last year, he would have made a major contribution with an attitude adjustment, but that may be like saying I would be rich with a financial adjustment. Neither one is likely.

phaedrus
11-14-2008, 01:54 AM
Josh's problem is not a lack of post moves. He is scared of physical play. There is no place in the league for a 6-11 guy who wants to float on the perimeter. Another year in college wouldn't have fixed his problems.

Funny how he finished in the top 3 in the ACC in both rebounding and blocks while being scared of physical play. He must have had long arms to mix it up inside while standing on the perimeter.

bludvlman
11-14-2008, 04:48 AM
I'd take McRoberts over all our bigs right now.

Constantstrain 81
11-14-2008, 08:35 AM
His final year at Duke - Josh was a warrior. He mixed it up with anyone, ran the court, rebounded, blocked shots, and guarded the other team's big guys. His block to stardom, in my opinion, was his lack of a strong "go-to" shot or offensive move. It didn't have to be a post move, just a move or a jumper. Lacking the confidence in that, he probably tended to not really want the ball in crunch time.

Scared of playing inside? Not the Josh I saw. He would take on anyone.

allenmurray
11-14-2008, 08:43 AM
McRob had back surgery before he was 21. He is playing on borrowed time. Surgery does not make everything all better, especially surgery on one's back.

true, True, TRUE

micah75
11-14-2008, 08:44 AM
Funny how he finished in the top 3 in the ACC in both rebounding and blocks while being scared of physical play. He must have had long arms to mix it up inside while standing on the perimeter.

You were on a roll last night, phaedrus. That was some funny stuff! Got a good chuckle out of this. Actually, it was more like a hearty guffaw than a chuckle. I was trying to imagine a timid Casper Milquetoast hiding out 7 or 8 feet beyond the 3 point arc, grabbing rebounds and swatting shots into the stands with his elongated arms, apologizing to his man "ekth-kuthe me, thir, but my coach sayeth I muth taketh thith round ball from thee. With thy permithion, of courth."

dukebluelemur
11-14-2008, 11:34 AM
I'd take McRoberts over all our bigs right now.

I'm going to assume you weren't including Singler (who played as our primary big last year) in that...?

CDu
11-14-2008, 01:21 PM
I'm going to assume you weren't including Singler (who played as our primary big last year) in that...?

That's the assumption I'd make too. Among the bigs, I'd include Zoubek and Plumlee. Those are the guys that are true post players. Among the not-quite-so-bigs, I'd list Singler, Thomas, and Czyz. Those are guys that aren't ideally suited to be post players (for various reasons) but can do it (and have done it) out of necessity.

And to be completely honest, I'd put McRoberts in a similar category talent-wise to Singler. While Singler is a force offensively as a creative scorer, McRoberts was a force defensively (as a rebounder and shot blocker) and as a creative passer. I think the two would have really complemented each other.

jma4life
11-14-2008, 01:27 PM
Pretty much agree, assuming that McRoberts didn't upset chemistry too much.

Also, I could be wrong but I really believe that on the right team, where he didn't have to be a go to guy, McRoberts could have thrived as a distributor. I think him and Singler down low could have honestly been an unbelievable duo.

That said, it seems like we have this exact discussion every couple of months. It's definitely nice to see McRoberts getting some pt though.

CDu
11-14-2008, 01:46 PM
Pretty much agree, assuming that McRoberts didn't upset chemistry too much.

Also, I could be wrong but I really believe that on the right team, where he didn't have to be a go to guy, McRoberts could have thrived as a distributor. I think him and Singler down low could have honestly been an unbelievable duo.

That said, it seems like we have this exact discussion every couple of months. It's definitely nice to see McRoberts getting some pt though.

I agree. I think the biggest problem for McRoberts was that he was easily frustrated and that he was asked to take on a role that he really wasn't well-suited for. I think had he had the fortune of playing with a versatile scorer like Singler, it'd have been a magical combination. That of course assumes that the chemistry thing was more due to the issues I mentioned in my first sentence and not a case of McRoberts simply being a complete jerk (which I hope wasn't/isn't the case).

I wish him well in the NBA. It's too bad things didn't work out better in college - for him or for Duke.

sagegrouse
11-14-2008, 02:15 PM
That's the assumption I'd make too. Among the bigs, I'd include Zoubek and Plumlee. Those are the guys that are true post players. Among the not-quite-so-bigs, I'd list Singler, Thomas, and Czyz. Those are guys that aren't ideally suited to be post players (for various reasons) but can do it (and have done it) out of necessity.

And to be completely honest, I'd put McRoberts in a similar category talent-wise to Singler. While Singler is a force offensively as a creative scorer, McRoberts was a force defensively (as a rebounder and shot blocker) and as a creative passer. I think the two would have really complemented each other.

McRoberts was much better suited for a Coach K team than either Zoubs or MP1. This is because he could run and was so versatile at ball-handling and so on. (Didn't you sense at the Olympics that K really grooved on the team when Chris Bosh was playing C?) Howsomever, it never happened at Duke. Maybe, maybe, if he stayed around all four years, he would have become the "go-to" guy.

Or, maybe, he didn't have the drive and determination to be a star.

sagegrouse

CDu
11-14-2008, 03:12 PM
McRoberts was much better suited for a Coach K team than either Zoubs or MP1. This is because he could run and was so versatile at ball-handling and so on. (Didn't you sense at the Olympics that K really grooved on the team when Chris Bosh was playing C?) Howsomever, it never happened at Duke. Maybe, maybe, if he stayed around all four years, he would have become the "go-to" guy.

Or, maybe, he didn't have the drive and determination to be a star.

sagegrouse

I don't think McRoberts was ever going to be the "go-to" guy (at least not in terms of scoring). I don't think his strengths were suited to it. I'm sure he could have developed his shooting touch to become an adequate shooter, but the strength of his game was always his athleticism, court vision, and passing ability. That's why I think he (and Duke) missed out by not getting to pair him with Singler. I think their skillsets really complemented each other. McRoberts had the size and willingness to defend in the post, which would have freed up Singler from that duty. And Singler's versatility as a scorer would have played perfectly with McRoberts's unselfishness and passing ability, and would have taken a ton of pressure off of McRoberts to be "the man."

CameronBornAndBred
11-15-2008, 07:15 AM
Both McRoberts and Randolph were listed as inactive for last night's games, anyone know why?

CDu
11-15-2008, 08:46 AM
Both McRoberts and Randolph were listed as inactive for last night's games, anyone know why?

My guess would be because their coaching staffs didn't see them breaking the 12-man rotation that night. The NBA let's you carry a 15-man roster, but each night you can only have 12 active players. It was a concession to eliminate the "phantom injury" policy teams would use for roster flexibility. My guess is that the teams felt that McRoberts and Randolph weren't active because they weren't among the top 12 last night.

In Indiana, McRoberts is behind Murphy, Hibbert, Foster, and Nesterovic, and is battling with Maceo Baston for fifth big guy minutes. He's gotten in for two games, but otherwise has been inactive. In Portland, Randolph has yet to play a game this year as he is behind Pryzbilla, Aldridge, Oden, Frye, and Diogu. I think he's been inactive all year because of that spot on the depth chart.

Carlos
11-15-2008, 08:50 AM
Well, I'm not sure with McRoberts, but Shav is the 15th guy on the Blazer's roster. He was active the last few games because Raef LaFrentz and Greg Oden were both injured. (LaFrentz is out for the season and the only reason he's on the roster is because his contract expires at the end of the year and will free up cap space for the huge free agent class this summer.)

Once Oden returned to action Shav was back in a suit.

devildeac
11-15-2008, 11:10 AM
Well, I'm not sure with McRoberts, but Shav is the 15th guy on the Blazer's roster. He was active the last few games because Raef LaFrentz and Greg Oden were both injured. (LaFrentz is out for the season and the only reason he's on the roster is because his contract expires at the end of the year and will free up cap space for the huge free agent class this summer.)

Once Oden returned to action Shav was back in a suit.

Oden came out of retirement:rolleyes:?

CDu
11-15-2008, 11:29 AM
Oden came out of retirement:rolleyes:?

He actually had a pretty good game in a loss to New Orleans last night (11 pts, 11 reb, 4 blk). He's had a rough go of it with the injuries the past 2 years. Hopefully for him his health is turning around.

heyman25
11-15-2008, 05:35 PM
Shelden and JJ are about as active as Shav and Josh.JJ can't make shots when he gets in the game and Shelden is not as good as their rookie Thompson from Rider.

Cdog923
11-15-2008, 08:58 PM
I'm glad he left when he did. He was a detriment to team chemistry and his departure allowed Singler to blossom.

CDu
11-15-2008, 10:47 PM
I'm glad he left when he did. He was a detriment to team chemistry and his departure allowed Singler to blossom.

I'm pretty sure Singler would have blossomed with McRoberts here as well. The two play different positions and have different strengths. I think that McRoberts would have actually allowed Singler to be even MORE effective than he already is.

But, alas, it's a moot point. McRoberts is in the NBA, Singler is playing well.

FerryFor50
11-20-2008, 08:49 AM
There is no place in the league for a 6-11 guy who wants to float on the perimeter.

Are you serious?

There is a solid chunk of the league that is 6'11"+ that does EXACTLY this. :p

Acymetric
12-03-2008, 12:31 AM
Josh got some PT today, 11 minutes with 6 boards, 2 points on 1-2 shooting, 1 block, 1 assist, 1 turnover, and 4 fouls. I wonder if he's going to start working his way in as a reserve guy or if there are some special circumstances that made it necessary to play him.

dukemomLA
12-03-2008, 01:52 AM
Sorry, but I was never a big fan of Josh at Duke. I felt that he didn't work hard enough on or off the court, and that he didn't really want to be here.

I wish him well, truly I do. But I was not sad to see him go. His pouting and blaming others for his mistakes annoyed me. And it devastated me that he didn't even try to live up to his potential -- which is HUGE.

I hope he can find his game (and attitude in the NBA). He has an amazing upside. We all hope he can find that. Hasn't so far.

greybeard
12-03-2008, 09:47 AM
I have always thought that McRobs difficulties on the offensive end had everything to do with his back. He was a poor receiver of the ball, except when on the move going to the basket, which is puzzling given his ability to move on defense, but not really if you accept that getting pushed from behind might force body positions on him that plain "hurt" or were destablizing.

His inability to shoot short jump shots or foul shots for a guy so fluid also bespeaks of some sort of disconnect through his spine, at least to me. And, why did he love so much spinning to his left and shooting short righty jump hooks or even finishing with his right hand at the rim?

"Yeesh, grey, is this an anatomical speculation show, or a discussion of McRob's game." Interesting question; in this case to me they are tied at the hip.

BTW, I think that McRob played his heart out for Duke, and left precisely because the back has dramaticly impacted his ability to earn in the game. I also think that had he been able to stay, it is scary to think how good this team would be. I think that he would have melded with Kyle fabulously well. You might well have been looking at back-to-backs.

Those two together, with Jon, G, and the rest. Are you kidding me. And, we (myself included) wonder whether Duke has fallen off in recruiting. Sometimes you can only laugh at yourself.

SupaDave
12-03-2008, 02:00 PM
I have always thought that McRobs difficulties on the offensive end had everything to do with his back. He was a poor receiver of the ball, except when on the move going to the basket, which is puzzling given his ability to move on defense, but not really if you accept that getting pushed from behind might force body positions on him that plain "hurt" or were destablizing.

His inability to shoot short jump shots or foul shots for a guy so fluid also bespeaks of some sort of disconnect through his spine, at least to me. And, why did he love so much spinning to his left and shooting short righty jump hooks or even finishing with his right hand at the rim?

"Yeesh, grey, is this an anatomical speculation show, or a discussion of McRob's game." Interesting question; in this case to me they are tied at the hip.

BTW, I think that McRob played his heart out for Duke, and left precisely because the back has dramaticly impacted his ability to earn in the game. I also think that had he been able to stay, it is scary to think how good this team would be. I think that he would have melded with Kyle fabulously well. You might well have been looking at back-to-backs.

Those two together, with Jon, G, and the rest. Are you kidding me. And, we (myself included) wonder whether Duke has fallen off in recruiting. Sometimes you can only laugh at yourself.

The only problem I have with all of this is that if the back is THAT bad - then how come he keeps passing team physicals? Someone has got to red light that right?

greybeard
12-03-2008, 03:48 PM
The only problem I have with all of this is that if the back is THAT bad - then how come he keeps passing team physicals? Someone has got to red light that right?

People play with lingering injuries (deficits) or the time that take away from their games. Some play on an extremely high level. McCrady has a back few of us would want and he plays pretty well. No one is turning him aside because of his back. Do the adjustments he makes because of his back give rise to auxilliary problems, or are those problems independent of the back. When the back is hurting but not bad enough to stop him from playing I am sure that it inhibits significantly what he can do well and what he dares to try.

I think McRob's back limits what he can do significantly. When he played at Duke, which was the last time I saw him, his bad back notwithstanding, he still had quite an impressive game. What he could not do was shoot the ball (jump or set shot), or post, seal and then come to the ball and catch it. He also could not catch down low and finish with his left hand, at least he rarely chose to even try, even when that seemed the most available finish.

With those limitations, I thought that McRob exhibited a reasonably sophisticated back to the basket game, which lacked diversity mostly because of his inability to jump shoot even in close and his inability to come to the ball after holding off defenders rather well. When he caught it low, McRob had strong moves to the baseline in either direction, and a nice little jump hook (righty). As I mentioned, for some reason, he did not like to finish lefty. Strangely, McRob looked terrifically athletic moving behind the defense and finishing at the rim, and in playing off-the-ball defense and rebounding defensively. The latter I believe was often done on sheer grit.

Compared to the deftness he displayed at other times, the deficites in McRob's game make no sense to me except as a byproduct of his back.

yancem
12-03-2008, 04:00 PM
I caught part of the game last night and noticed a play that just makes me wonder. One of the Indiana guys worked his way into the lane and kicked it back out to McRoberts. A foul was called prior to McRoberts receiving the ball but he caught it and smoothly hoisted a three that was nothing but net.

That is the McRoberts I saw in the McDonalds game and thought man this guy is going to be great. Why can't he shoot the ball like that during the game? Is it mental or does it really have something to do with his back? If he can start consistently hitting the outside shot then he could develop into a solid nba player. Here's to hoping he can get some minutes and show some ability.

BTW, I'm in the camp that adding McRoberts to this year's squad (or last year's for that matter) would place us at least as co-front runners for the NC. That is at least on paper. My only concern would be that of team chemistry. I don't know how legitimate the rumors about problems with his attitude/ego were but they say where there's smoke, there's usually a fire.

CDu
12-03-2008, 04:26 PM
BTW, I'm in the camp that adding McRoberts to this year's squad (or last year's for that matter) would place us at least as co-front runners for the NC. That is at least on paper. My only concern would be that of team chemistry. I don't know how legitimate the rumors about problems with his attitude/ego were but they say where there's smoke, there's usually a fire.

I think McRoberts would have made last year's team (and this year's team) a legitimate final-four team. He would have added the consistent rebounding and low-post defensive presence that we lacked last year and will likely lack this year as well. And he'd have given us more post depth last year, and better quality post depth this year.

I also think the chemistry thing might have been overplayed. I think McRoberts is highly competitive and got frustrated in his sophomore year by playing for what was just not a very good team (due to inexperience and injury, and lack of the right pieces). I think being forced to try to carry the scoring load (which wasn't a strength of his) didn't help. Thus, I think Singler's presence on the offensive end and Smith's presence as another option at PG would have made life much easier on McRoberts, and would have addressed the chemistry issues.

That said, it's hard to really discuss, as we can't know how it would have played out. And it's sort of irrelevant now as he's not a part of the team anymore (nor was he last year). Oh well.

greybeard
12-03-2008, 06:49 PM
I think McRoberts would have made last year's team (and this year's team) a legitimate final-four team. He would have added the consistent rebounding and low-post defensive presence that we lacked last year and will likely lack this year as well. And he'd have given us more post depth last year, and better quality post depth this year.

I also think the chemistry thing might have been overplayed. I think McRoberts is highly competitive and got frustrated in his sophomore year by playing for what was just not a very good team (due to inexperience and injury, and lack of the right pieces). I think being forced to try to carry the scoring load (which wasn't a strength of his) didn't help. Thus, I think Singler's presence on the offensive end and Smith's presence as another option at PG would have made life much easier on McRoberts, and would have addressed the chemistry issues.

That said, it's hard to really discuss, as we can't know how it would have played out. And it's sort of irrelevant now as he's not a part of the team anymore (nor was he last year). Oh well.

POTD

SupaDave
12-03-2008, 08:12 PM
I think McRoberts would have made last year's team (and this year's team) a legitimate final-four team. He would have added the consistent rebounding and low-post defensive presence that we lacked last year and will likely lack this year as well. And he'd have given us more post depth last year, and better quality post depth this year.

I also think the chemistry thing might have been overplayed. I think McRoberts is highly competitive and got frustrated in his sophomore year by playing for what was just not a very good team (due to inexperience and injury, and lack of the right pieces). I think being forced to try to carry the scoring load (which wasn't a strength of his) didn't help. Thus, I think Singler's presence on the offensive end and Smith's presence as another option at PG would have made life much easier on McRoberts, and would have addressed the chemistry issues.

That said, it's hard to really discuss, as we can't know how it would have played out. And it's sort of irrelevant now as he's not a part of the team anymore (nor was he last year). Oh well.

Doesn't make sense - if you're playing for the draft - why wouldn't you want to shoot MORE? He wasn't ready physically or mentally.

I have a baby cousin much like McRoberts. He's 15 years old and 6'-9. My family is a basketball family with REAL pro athletes. I talk Duke to him but it's clear he's not motiviated - he's too busy being coddled by my family and being told by people who are 5'-2 that he's going pro. He's a good kid but he rejects hard work and the most emphatic directions to do so - yet still thinks he'll be a pro. In essence - he's soft and I don't know what will light a fire under him.

This is how I think of McRoberts. Extreme talent but geez it's just so hard to pinpoint what went wrong. Your arguments about his back have tremendous merit but I also know that alley-oop dunks put an extreme amount of strain on your back and he seemed to love doing that - blocking shots as well.

I personally would love to have a luxury like McRoberts but would he have bought into the team concept and sacrificed minutes?

McRoberts didn't recruit. BUT he went to DUKE and Coach K was his coach - how could he NOT think help was on the way? They knew Singler was coming - b/c we did.

Zoubs could be light years ahead. But see? It's so many 'what ifs' that I prefer to just enjoy what he gave us. Yes there were some disappointments but I think you have that with just about everyone whose ever put on a Duke jersey. Can't win 'em all.

If he gets to dunking in Indiana then it's a whole new ball game...

CDu
12-03-2008, 09:27 PM
Doesn't make sense - if you're playing for the draft - why wouldn't you want to shoot MORE? He wasn't ready physically or mentally.

My post had nothing to do with playing for the draft, so I'm not sure what you're getting at. Regardless, why does scoring have to be the key to getting drafted? The strength of Josh's game was all about his diverse skillset. He could handle the ball, run the floor, pass exceptionally well. Scoring was simply his weakest attribute. The problem in his sophomore year was that we had a team that struggled to score, so McRoberts was often forced to try to score more than he was really suited to do. Pairing him with Singler would have been a match made in heaven: McRoberts a guy who could defend the bigs, run the break and pass to a crafty Singler for points. Singler would take the scoring burden off of McRoberts. This has nothing to do with the draft.


I have a baby cousin much like McRoberts. He's 15 years old and 6'-9. My family is a basketball family with REAL pro athletes. I talk Duke to him but it's clear he's not motiviated - he's too busy being coddled by my family and being told by people who are 5'-2 that he's going pro. He's a good kid but he rejects hard work and the most emphatic directions to do so - yet still thinks he'll be a pro. In essence - he's soft and I don't know what will light a fire under him.

This is how I think of McRoberts. Extreme talent but geez it's just so hard to pinpoint what went wrong. Your arguments about his back have tremendous merit but I also know that alley-oop dunks put an extreme amount of strain on your back and he seemed to love doing that - blocking shots as well.

Firstly, you are presuming a LOT about McRoberts's personality with probably VERY little actual knowledge of him. That's probably not fair. Regardless, I'd say it's pretty inaccurate to characterize a guy as soft when that guy averaged 7.9 rebounds and over 2.5 blocks per game and carried the entire post burden to himself. I think he played very hard at Duke. He was limited in what he could do as a scorer. I think you are mislabeling his limited ability to score as being soft. But nothing about his play suggested to me that he was soft. Also, I don't think I ever brought up his back problems in my discussion. That's not a discussion point I have regarding him.

greybeard
12-03-2008, 10:22 PM
My post had nothing to do with playing for the draft, so I'm not sure what you're getting at. Regardless, why does scoring have to be the key to getting drafted? The strength of Josh's game was all about his diverse skillset. He could handle the ball, run the floor, pass exceptionally well. Scoring was simply his weakest attribute. The problem in his sophomore year was that we had a team that struggled to score, so McRoberts was often forced to try to score more than he was really suited to do. Pairing him with Singler would have been a match made in heaven: McRoberts a guy who could defend the bigs, run the break and pass to a crafty Singler for points. Singler would take the scoring burden off of McRoberts. This has nothing to do with the draft.



Firstly, you are presuming a LOT about McRoberts's personality with probably VERY little actual knowledge of him. That's probably not fair. Regardless, I'd say it's pretty inaccurate to characterize a guy as soft when that guy averaged 7.9 rebounds and over 2.5 blocks per game and carried the entire post burden to himself. I think he played very hard at Duke. He was limited in what he could do as a scorer. I think you are mislabeling his limited ability to score as being soft. But nothing about his play suggested to me that he was soft. Also, I don't think I ever brought up his back problems in my discussion. That's not a discussion point I have regarding him.

I take it all back. What was I thinking. This is the POTD!

Rudy
12-04-2008, 11:05 AM
Compared to the deftness he displayed at other times, the deficites in McRob's game make no sense to me except as a byproduct of his back.

Maybe an unwillingness to work on the weaknesses in his game, particularly in the offseasons?

greybeard
12-04-2008, 11:15 AM
Maybe an unwillingness to work on the weaknesses in his game, particularly in the offseasons?

Ridiculous. The things we are talking about are elemental, particularly as compared to the skill set he exhibited.

DukeDevilDeb
12-04-2008, 11:35 AM
McRob had back surgery before he was 21. He is playing on borrowed time. Surgery does not make everything all better, especially surgery on one's back. I am happy for McRob that he is getting to earn playing the game; I hope it lasts long enough for him to put a really, really good (by normal people's standards) nest egg away for himself.

We will never know how good McRob would have been had the back problems that ultimately required surgery not taken the real promise away. We never saw that McRob, nor will we ever.

Hurray that there is enough talent and fortitude there to allow him to be in the NBA. Each day is a gift.

More than most of us know, Josh's back played a HUGE part in his decision to leave. What if he stayed another year and his back got worse? He has a shot at a pro life, but it is going to be very, very short.

SupaDave
12-04-2008, 12:07 PM
My post had nothing to do with playing for the draft, so I'm not sure what you're getting at. Regardless, why does scoring have to be the key to getting drafted? The strength of Josh's game was all about his diverse skillset. He could handle the ball, run the floor, pass exceptionally well. Scoring was simply his weakest attribute. The problem in his sophomore year was that we had a team that struggled to score, so McRoberts was often forced to try to score more than he was really suited to do. Pairing him with Singler would have been a match made in heaven: McRoberts a guy who could defend the bigs, run the break and pass to a crafty Singler for points. Singler would take the scoring burden off of McRoberts. This has nothing to do with the draft.



Firstly, you are presuming a LOT about McRoberts's personality with probably VERY little actual knowledge of him. That's probably not fair. Regardless, I'd say it's pretty inaccurate to characterize a guy as soft when that guy averaged 7.9 rebounds and over 2.5 blocks per game and carried the entire post burden to himself. I think he played very hard at Duke. He was limited in what he could do as a scorer. I think you are mislabeling his limited ability to score as being soft. But nothing about his play suggested to me that he was soft. Also, I don't think I ever brought up his back problems in my discussion. That's not a discussion point I have regarding him.

Since this was the 'POTD' I thought I'd take a careful look at this thread.

True - your post had nothing to do with the draft but you speak of McBob failing under a scoring 'burden'. Coming out of high school, McRoberts was the McDonald’s All-America Player of the Year and he doesn't want to score? I can introduce you to about a hundred guys with much less ability that will shoot the ball every time they touch it.

We mention the draft b/c of McRoberts himself and the fact that we are tracking his professional career. "I will miss Duke, the coaching staff and my teammates, but it has always been goal of mine to play in the NBA." BUT he doesn't want to score?

So you’re telling me that the #1 player overall in the Class of 2005 thought he was gonna pass and dunk his way into the NBA?

And I’m not calling Josh McRoberts soft – I’m calling my cousin soft and that’s primarily b/c he’d rather be texting, playing video games, or on Facebook. I cut him some slack cause he’s 15 but a few in my family are disgusted with his apparent lack of interest in getting better.

However, McRoberts was a 37th pick in the 2nd round and had his own blog before he scored a point in the NBA - where in the first post he mentions a sprained ankle and being able to LIFT WEIGHTS (no back problems are ever mentioned). Some things just strike me as familiar. Personally, I wouldn’t want to dance with either one of those big boys. (http://www.yardbarker.com/joshmcroberts).

My view of toughness might be different than others (I'm the son of a Marine and I wrestled and played football) so I decided to query the boards with the words ‘McRoberts’ and ‘SOFT’ to see what was out there and I saw the following thread:

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=476&highlight=mcroberts+soft

Amazingly, Greybeard is still talking about his back. My feeling on the whole back issue is that if it hurts that bad – retire (Larry Johnson made it 10 years before he shut it down). I'm not big on excuses and you can always dominate the rec league. Life as a regular person isn’t that bad and the NBA should never be considered a guaranteed thing - or birthright (just ask Anthony Parker - older brother of Candace).

I don't know where you could get the association that a lack of scoring equals soft. GT's Jeremis Smith was not a great scorer (getting most of his points under the goal and at the free throw line) but he was NEVER labeled soft. His stat line isn't THAT different from Josh's.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=22257

Not to harp on McBob b/c I think he is a great kid but if you search the net there’s plenty of talk about his lack of aggression. I thought I’d use ones that used the word ‘soft’. Here’s just a few.

http://www.hoopsvibe.com/nba/nba-draft/nba-draft-news/josh-mcroberts-robs-himself-ar42080.html

http://www.javariscrittenton.org/javaris-crittenton-news20070627.php

http://nba.suite101.com/article.cfm/2007_nba_draft_day_notes

http://www.phxsuns.net/archive/index.php/t-233.html (5th post is Chad Ford’s insider info)

It’s amazing that you can compliment McRoberts’ stat line as stellar but all one has to do is look at any Zoubek/Thomas thread and they will see pretty much the same numbers being lamblasted as insufficient. I don't know how many times I've seen it posted that we would like at least 15 and 10 out of the post.

Finally after all this I will get back on topic - one of the most interesting things I'm seeing about him right NOW is that he's a high energy guy coming off the bench. I think that bodes very well for Josh.

SupaDave
12-04-2008, 12:32 PM
You could say the same thing about Ryan Kelly or Mason Plumnee. I think its wrong to say Josh couldn't have become more of an inside player with another year or two in college. Part of the problem was he needed to gain more strength, just like Kelly and Plumnee need to.

Actually Kelly and Plumlee are both known to mix it up down low.

http://www.hoopitup.com/article.aspx?id=119

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/future-devil-working-it-for-usa-hoops

jma4life
12-04-2008, 01:06 PM
Honestly, how different are McRobert's and Singler's stats? McRoberts is probably averaging a couple less points and a couple more rebounds yet we all agree Singler is playing like a potential all american.

Obviously, stats are not the be all end all of what a player is doing but the bottom line is that for all the McRoberts hate, he did better as a sophomore than a lot of former great Duke players and in my opinion he was the best player on the team his sophomore year. The reality is, whether or not he is limited physically, he was undoubtedly limited skill wise at Duke yet eh still put up respectable numbers. Had absolutely no shot, and not a single back to the basket move. I suppose a guy like Tyler and do well with that, though he has good touch, but he's a once in a generation type of player.

CDu
12-04-2008, 01:26 PM
Since this was the 'POTD' I thought I'd take a careful look at this thread.

True - your post had nothing to do with the draft but you speak of McBob failing under a scoring 'burden'. Coming out of high school, McRoberts was the McDonald’s All-America Player of the Year and he doesn't want to score? I can introduce you to about a hundred guys with much less ability that will shoot the ball every time they touch it.



We mention the draft b/c of McRoberts himself and the fact that we are tracking his professional career. "I will miss Duke, the coaching staff and my teammates, but it has always been goal of mine to play in the NBA." BUT he doesn't want to score?

So you’re telling me that the #1 player overall in the Class of 2005 thought he was gonna pass and dunk his way into the NBA?

Again, I'm really not sure what your point is here. I don't care what his NBA prospects were. I was talking about his ability to help this year's team and last year's team. You keep bringing up the scoring, and I keep saying that that's why he's a perfect fit with Singler: Singler can carry the scoring burden, McRoberts can carry the defense burden.


And I’m not calling Josh McRoberts soft – I’m calling my cousin soft and that’s primarily b/c he’d rather be texting, playing video games, or on Facebook. I cut him some slack cause he’s 15 but a few in my family are disgusted with his apparent lack of interest in getting better.

You described your cousin as soft, and then said that's how you think of McRoberts. Sorry if I misinterpreted your point, but whether you meant it or not you definitely implied that you think he's soft.


It’s amazing that you can compliment McRoberts’ stat line as stellar but all one has to do is look at any Zoubek/Thomas thread and they will see pretty much the same numbers being lamblasted as insufficient. I don't know how many times I've seen it posted that we would like at least 15 and 10 out of the post.

Here are McRoberts's numbers from his sophomore year:
35.3mpg, 13.0ppg, 7.9rbp, 2.5bpg, 3.5apg, 1.4:1 assist:turnover, 2.5fpg

Here were Zoubek's and Thomas's stats last year:
28.5mpg, 8.1ppg, 6.7rpg, 1.3bpg, 0.8apg, 1:2.25assist:turnover, 4.7fpg

Zoubek and Thomas could basically combine to match McRoberts' rebounding, but they couldn't touch his shotblocking presence or his abilities on offense (either scoring or passing). And they'd commit 2-3 more fouls per game than McRoberts. You seem to be ignoring that. McRoberts could contribute rebounding and defense consistently while being able to stay on the floor. And that stat comparison ignores the possibility that McRoberts would have improved from his sophomore to junior year, which would make the comparison even more drastic in favor of McRoberts.

Now, imagine having McRoberts playing the majority of the minutes (with much better production than those other guys) and THEN having those guys to fill in scrap minutes. Do you see how we'd be better? Imagine the high-low game that McRoberts and Singler could work together with each of their ballhandling and passing abilities.


Finally after all this I will get back on topic - one of the most interesting things I'm seeing about him right NOW is that he's a high energy guy coming off the bench. I think that bodes very well for Josh.

I agree. I wish him well in the NBA. I just wish he could have been playing for us last year (and this year) as I think we'd be a better team with him than without him. That was my point.

CDu
12-04-2008, 01:29 PM
Honestly, how different are McRobert's and Singler's stats? McRoberts is probably averaging a couple less points and a couple more rebounds yet we all agree Singler is playing like a potential all american.

Obviously, stats are not the be all end all of what a player is doing but the bottom line is that for all the McRoberts hate, he did better as a sophomore than a lot of former great Duke players and in my opinion he was the best player on the team his sophomore year. The reality is, whether or not he is limited physically, he was undoubtedly limited skill wise at Duke yet eh still put up respectable numbers. Had absolutely no shot, and not a single back to the basket move. I suppose a guy like Tyler and do well with that, though he has good touch, but he's a once in a generation type of player.

Singler is a better scorer, McRoberts a better shotblocker and passer. I agree wholeheartedly. There is a lot of McRoberts hate, and I think a lot of it is unfounded. He was asked to do something he wasn't very good at - carry the scoring burden. He struggled to score consistently (as should have been expected), but was a major contributor in nearly every other aspect of the game.

SupaDave
12-04-2008, 03:18 PM
Singler is a better scorer, McRoberts a better shotblocker and passer. I agree wholeheartedly. There is a lot of McRoberts hate, and I think a lot of it is unfounded. He was asked to do something he wasn't very good at - carry the scoring burden. He struggled to score consistently (as should have been expected), but was a major contributor in nearly every other aspect of the game.

As far as I can tell McRoberts is pretty much the only Mickey D's All-American that has ever had a 'scoring' problem. This is where I have a problem - it just boggles my mind. Look at the people included in this list.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald's_All-American_Team

CDu
12-04-2008, 03:39 PM
As far as I can tell McRoberts is pretty much the only Mickey D's All-American that has ever had a 'scoring' problem. This is where I have a problem - it just boggles my mind. Look at the people included in this list.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald's_All-American_Team

I'm not sure why you're so infatuated with McRoberts's lack of scoring ability. It's as if you think that's the only attribute that makes a player a good player. There are plenty of players who are big-time players and yet aren't great scorers. I'm also not sure why it's relevant in our discussion.

That said, I can name a BUNCH of McDonald's AA who had more trouble scoring than McRoberts:

Casey Sanders
Eric Boateng
Neil Fingleton
Brian Butch
Wojo
Taymon Domzalski
Luke Zeller
Sean Dockery

And that's without any real effort at all. I bet I could find a heck of a lot more of those guys with even a modest amount of research. But again, that is really irrelevant. The fact that McRoberts didn't NEED to score if he was on last year's team is exactly my point.

greybeard
12-04-2008, 03:45 PM
McRob's last year at Duke, K was set on shutting teams down and running clock on the other end, shooting with next to nothing on the clock. We all agree on this? If not, we (you) were not watching.

Now, how did Duke intend to shut people down. Here's how, with three super defenders and one surprise one, that would be Jon. I've written a little about how McClure's role on that team was "unique" in the sense that while the team as a whole switched on screens, when McClure was involved, his job was to stay with the ball. As a consequence, the guy was in a low defensive stance for like 20 seconds or more at a time sometimes. Then he crashed the boards. But enough about McClure.

McRob's job was just about as unique. His job was to hard double anyone who penetrated the lane, I mean hard! Not let him either shoot or pick out anyone, like McRob's guy for instance, who might be in the paint, but instead have to kick it out. Everybody else stayed home. If the guy passed it inside, McRob's job, yeap, you got it right, to shut that guy down too. And, when the ball went up, McRob was the principal guy on the boards. His job was to get it.

Now, we all know that Kyle dragged a bit at the end of the year, and he had an outside game to go to, and stronger offensive players around him.

My take, K told McRob that offense was second, that he needed him to be strong and very active on the defensive end and defensive boards, in particular at the end of close games. If K didn't tell him to, that was a role that McRob took upon himself (not possible that K did not tell him that that was the number 1 priority, not possible).

Now, on the offensive end, McRob's best game was creating opportunities to catch going to the rim and he did some spectacular things in that regard. When he caught it low, he used his right hand very effectively. He did not catch it enough because he simply could not shield and then, having held the guy off in a bent position, extend upwards with his torso while jumping forward to receive. Couldn't do it. At least I never saw him, not once in all the games I watched. I learned that one from Sunny Hertzberg when I was 13. I'm betting McRob had that down by, oh, 9.

Not having a little jump shot to go to hurt McRob's ability to get easy-on-the-body (or at least easier) chances inside that might have really opened up the lane for him. Slipping the pressure and popping out and hitting a lttle jump shot ain't that tough to develop, and I cannot imagine that as a young teenager that type game was not part of McRob's repetoire.

In short, given the extraordinary "sweeper-like" job McRob did on the defensive end, and the limitations on offense that his back posed, I think that McRob's offensive output his sophomore season was more than respectable. His overall play did honor, in my view, to the Duke tradition.

Backs are a funny thing and the human brain has the ability to adjust and adapt. If McRob finds a way to shoot the ball consistently and bring it to shooting position with diversity, look out. I'm rooting for him, just like I did when I watched him at Duke. (By the way, there were times when he was repeatedly hurling himself in the air on defensive, going from one shooter to the next, and then going after the ball, that he looked awkward. That pained me, because I swear he made some aerial plays on offense that took my breath away. Two different people, one, when that back got in the way, and a second when it didn't. The guy was a Duke basketball player in the best sense of the term.)

greybeard
12-04-2008, 04:05 PM
BTW, if he had stayed and hooked up with Singler, he would have scored the ball with amazing efficiency even if with a summer's rest and an ability to play around with his game, he did not improve his offensive repetoire.

With Singler helping to guard the basket and defensive rebound, McRob would have had more mental and physical energy to expend on the offensive end, and could have come out of games for needed rests that would have permitted him to assess the flow. It is downright scary to think how Singler the passer and McRob the finisher might have hooked up. No other word for it but scary. Singler lobbing or scooching it low to McRob who finishes or one-touches it back to Singler who finishes, or McRob passes it cross court to Paulus or Jon or Demarcus who shoot or penetrate and finish or pull up or lob or dish to whomever who yadayadayada; Singler driving and dishing. Oh, I forgot the wing penetration game, which they stopped towards the end of last year with a big, which would have left McRob open to attack the rim for a pass. Yikes.

SupaDave
12-05-2008, 09:54 AM
BTW, if he had stayed and hooked up with Singler, he would have scored the ball with amazing efficiency even if with a summer's rest and an ability to play around with his game, he did not improve his offensive repetoire.

But since we're talking about McBob the 'pro', I'm wondering what's the hold up now? Can't still be the back right? Defense is supposed to get you in the game - at least that's what they keep telling J.J. Just b/c he can be physical doesn't mean he's 'hard'. Is he out of position getting '5' minutes?

I mean, we've reminisced and hypothesized but it seems that noone is looking at what's going on right NOW.

There's not a lot of news out there on him for sure but from what I can tell players like Granger, Murphy, Nesterovic, and Foster (who also has back problems but is producing) are keeping him on the bench. He's got to be more athletic than Hibbet.

We have been touting his defense but it appears that is the very thing keeping him out of games.

http://www.sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/1231885

CDu
12-05-2008, 10:13 AM
But since we're talking about McBob the 'pro', I'm wondering what's the hold up now? Can't still be the back right? Defense is supposed to get you in the game - at least that's what they keep telling J.J. Just b/c he can be physical doesn't mean he's 'hard'. Is he out of position getting '5' minutes?

I mean, we've reminisced and hypothesized but it seems that noone is looking at what's going on right NOW.

There's not a lot of news out there on him for sure but from what I can tell players like Granger, Murphy, Nesterovic, and Foster (who also has back problems but is producing) are keeping him on the bench. He's got to be more athletic than Hibbet.

We have been touting his defense but it appears that is the very thing keeping him out of games.

http://www.sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/1231885

Your analysis of him in the pros is all over the map with problems. McRoberts isn't playing (while Hibbert is - though not that much more) because McRoberts is a PF behind a better version of himself in Troy Murphy. Hibbert is a C (that's a different position in the pros), and plays behind Nesterovic. Foster is a superior defender to both players and has a lot of NBA experience, and thus is the primary backup at both the PF and C spot.

Comparing McRoberts' situation to Redick's is also faulty. McRoberts simply has a better player in front of him. Redick simply isn't performing at the one thing he should be able to do well at the NBA level. This doesn't have to do with defense for McRoberts. Defense is only part of the problem for Redick - everything is the problem for Redick.

Ultimately, it's debatable whether either will be an effective pro player. McRoberts seems to be the type of player who could dominate in high school and be very productive in college despite a lack of scoring ability, probably because his athleticism and skillset were uncommon in someone his size. At the NBA level, that combination is not nearly as rare, and thus his deficiencies are more evident. Redick could be a dominant scoring presence in high school and college largely because his athleticism wasn't a hindrance. At the NBA level, it appears (so far at least) that the athletic bar has risen beyond his capabilities.

Hopefully both guys figure out a way to maximize their NBA abilities.

bludvlman
12-20-2008, 09:33 PM
Josh McRoberts is getting some real burn now and had twenty eight minutes of burn tonight. He had 10 points on 5 of 12 shooting (0-3 from three), 8 rebounds and 4 blocks.

I went over to a Pacers forum and they really want him to get minutes now, apparently he saved the team from losing with three of their regulars with the flu.

I always liked Josh and thought he was better suited for the NBA than Duke.

CameronBornAndBred
12-20-2008, 09:43 PM
I always liked Josh and thought he was better suited for the NBA than Duke.
He always thought so, too.

bludvlman
12-20-2008, 09:49 PM
The pacers fans love his D and athletecism, he does foul too much but besides that and shooting threes he is doing a great job when he gets PT.

Bob Green
12-20-2008, 11:42 PM
I read on a different forum I belong to that McRoberts played 28 minutes because three or four Pacers are down hard with the flu. He will not get serious "burn" when the team is healthy. "Burn" is a term I've never understood, perhaps I'm showing my age! Or, perhaps I couldn't resist contributing to a thread about my least favorite Blue Devil in recent memory.

bludvlman
12-21-2008, 12:03 AM
McRoberts got a bad rap, he wasn't used correctly which is rare for K and also he was the best player on a bad Duke team and was blamed for the team's failure. His freshmen year he was the only one that did anything outside of JJ and Shelden. I thought he was very underrated at Duke.

geraldsneighbor
12-21-2008, 12:50 AM
Granger, Murphy, and another player were out with the flu tonight. I was a fan of Josh's intensity while he was here. I think when he announced his intentions to go pro, no one was real upset. I really do wonder how him and Greg and the rest of the team got along with him because I have read JJ and him remain good friends. I wish Josh the best of luck but really don't know how I should remember him. I will say, him taking NBA 3's is a little absurd.

DukieInBrasil
12-21-2008, 03:22 PM
McRoberts blew it up!!!! He got a sliver of a chance the previous game and did a respectable job and then got a return call and made it huge. He can´t buy a 3-ball but he has bee hitting the boards hard and with this last game, he may hae earned himself a bunch more PT. Good for him!!!

Ders24
12-21-2008, 03:53 PM
Granger, Murphy, and another player were out with the flu tonight. I was a fan of Josh's intensity while he was here. I think when he announced his intentions to go pro, no one was real upset. I really do wonder how him and Greg and the rest of the team got along with him because I have read JJ and him remain good friends. I wish Josh the best of luck but really don't know how I should remember him. I will say, him taking NBA 3's is a little absurd.

I never liked Josh when he was at Duke, it was pretty clear that he wasn't really interested in being there (this is from his attitude on campus and dealing with students). From what I saw, no one was very upset to see him go.

DukieInBrasil
12-24-2008, 05:43 PM
Josh has gotten respectable minutes in 3 strait games now and has done a decent job, possibly earning a longer look or even a semi-permanent spot in the rotation. In Game 3 he scored 8pts, 4 rebs, 5 asts and 2 blocks. That is a very impressive stat line. His only drawback has been FG%, 40% in the 3 games, partly due to an 0-4 3pt in game #2. Keep it up Josh.

Devilsfan
12-24-2008, 06:07 PM
Never thought of it before but Bludvlman might have a point, believe it or not.

DevilDan
12-24-2008, 10:31 PM
So let's see ... two years ago, Josh McRoberts couldn't even shoot 5-9 footers with ANY consistency at Duke ... so now he's taking 3-pointers ?? UHHHHHH ????

While at Duke he was adept at posting impressive game totals in boards, blocks, assists, and (every so often) points. He was clearly more comfortable being the third best player on the floor, than in that final year when Duke needed him to be the "go-to guy". Still a hard guy to figure out ...

jimsumner
12-26-2008, 05:32 PM
"McRoberts got a bad rap, he wasn't used correctly which is rare for K and also he was the best player on a bad Duke team and was blamed for the team's failure. His freshmen year he was the only one that did anything outside of JJ and Shelden. I thought he was very underrated at Duke."

In what way did Mike Krzyzewski misuse Josh McRoberts?

Do you really think Josh McRoberts played on a "bad" Duke team? Hint. I've seen bad Duke basketball and it didn't remotely resemble 2007.

In what way was Duke's only All-ACC player in 2007 blamed for that team's "failure."

Do you really think that Greg Paulus, DeMarcus Nelson, and Sean Dockery did not do "anything" for Duke basketball in 2006?

ncexnyc
12-26-2008, 11:53 PM
In what way did Mike Krzyzewski misuse Josh McRoberts?


Perhaps, "misused" isn't the correct word. Maybe it was more of the proverbial, "Trying to put a square peg, into a round hole" situation.

The team needed Josh to fill a certain role, one which his skill set and personal make-up wasn't suited for.

Josh chose to leave, end of story. I really don't understand why we have to do this everytime a kid decides to leave early. I'm surprised we don't have a Taylor King thread up and running discussing what his current class schedule looks like.

jv001
12-27-2008, 10:46 AM
All Josh did was lead the team in rebounding, play very good defense, bring the ball up the court against pressure and make some outstanding passes. People expected him to score 20 pts, get 10+ rebounds and 10 assists per game. He did a good job in all 3 areas of play, just not the total numbers fans wanted. Josh was not the problem with the team, we were just not as good as people thought we would be. I don't know about Josh's attitude because I wasn't at the practice sessions or in the locker room. However I know he gave it his all in the games. So I wish him luck in his attempt to become a good pro player. Go Duke!

jimsumner
12-27-2008, 11:48 AM
McRoberts was a consumate complementary player, skilled, athletic, and multi-dimensional. But he didn't have a go-to-move and had limited range on his shot.

So, how to use him? McRoberts was second in the ACC in rebounding and blocked shots, second on Duke in assists and steals. Centers aren't often second on teams in assists and steals. 13 points, 8 rebounds, 3.5 assists per game. He brought the ball up against pressure, frequently initiated the offense, and guarded the other team's best post player.

Seems to me that Krzyzewski used him about as well as he could have been used.

McRoberts was voted second-team All-ACC and first-team All-ACC defense. So knowledgeable observers didn't blame him for Duke's season.

Did "some" Duke fans expect better? I'm sure they did. But some Duke fans have a sense of entitlement and expectation that defies rational comprehension.

Because of attrition, injuries, and the Humphries fiasco, the 2007 Duke team was the youngest and least experienced in living memory. McRoberts was forced into a leadership role that rarely falls to sophomores and he didn't always handle it as well as he could have.

McRoberts always saw himself in the NBA and, to borrow a phrase from Krzyzewski, I'm not sure he totally unpacked his bags.

Had he returned last season, fully invested in being at Duke, then I think the result would have been a powerhouse Duke team and a Josh McRoberts better suited to become an impact player in the NBA. McRoberts was at least as good as a sophomore as Shane Battier, Carlos Boozer, Mike Dunleavy, or Shelden Williams were as sophs and not far below Danny Ferry or J.J. Redick as sophomores.

I would have loved to have seen him develop more at Duke. But he made the decision that he felt was best for him at that time and I wish him nothing but the best in the NBA.

ice-9
12-27-2008, 09:39 PM
The irony is had McRoberts left Duke after his freshman year, we wouldn't be giving him half the grief that we are giving now. We would have simply thought... "McRoberts is a one and done like Deng who helped the 2005-2006 team to a #1 ranking and #1 seed. Too bad he left for the NBA early, but he did good at Duke while he was here and so we hope him the best."

But now, because he stayed around his sophomore year to play on a limited team, we assign most of the blame to McRoberts for the team's lack of success. Does that seem fair to you? Leave early -> avoid blame. Stay around -> take blame?

SMO
12-29-2008, 08:22 AM
I agree that McBobs gets a bad rap sometimes for his on-the-court performance. Consider that he was just a soph and averaged:

PPG: 13.0, RPG: 7.9, APG: 3.5, BPG: 2.5, FG%: 50.2%

Compare this vs. Singler so far in his Soph year:

PPG: 15.9, RPG: 7.8, APG: 3.5, BPG: 0.9, FG%: 46.4%

McBobs' numbers suggest he was very good. I think many posters here have knowledge about his attitude that may be influencing their opinion of his performance, which is reasonable. I found this comparison very interesting though and wonder why some are so quick to label him a bust.