The Big Feast vs. The Atlantic Toast Conference

[rthomas]

Just to rub it in a little. The ACC 'steals' 3 teams from the Big East in order to beef up football. The Big East retaliates by 'stealing' Louisville, Marquette, DePaul, etc. from Conference USA and becomes a basketball conference.

This season, the ACC went 3-7 against the Big East in football (including two bowl losses) and 8-13 in basketball (including two NCAA Tournament losses).

In football, the Big East went 5-0 in bowl games. And had three teams -- Louisville, West Virginia and Rutgers -- ranked well ahead of the highest-ranked ACC team -- No. 18 Wake Forest -- in last year's final AP Top 25.

In basketball, the ACC, for the first time in 25 years, placed only one basketball team in the regional semifinals and was shut out from the Final Four and the AP All-America first team.

Here is an article from which I am stealing info from...
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/college/s_500271.html

[Son of Jarhead]

Let's hope this year is the exception to the (ACC) rule(s).

[Exiled_Devil]

It's not like many here ever supported the expansion. I for one, agreed with Coach K's assessment that we should have stuck with 9 teams. Round robin, even schedules, more OOC games.

I would be glad to take back our position and give back the Big Least teams.

Exiled

[hurleyfor3]

I'm hardly the first person to postulate this, but a look for a group of 6-8 disaffected major-conference teams to break off and form their own conference in five years or so. This may involve Duke, perhaps Wake or even UNC if Duke goes, a Big Ten team or two and even Notre Dame in football. If it involves ND in football it can't be too big, so that ND can maintain its existing rivalries.

The impetus is the existing Big East, which is the plutonium-241 of athletic conferences, bound to break up in a few years. Oh, and also harmful to your health.

[Wander]

The stats you site are pointless. No 1st team All-American? That's a meaningless fact in this comparison. The ACC was better than the Big East this year by any reasonable measurement in basketball.

Obviously, the Big East was light years ahead of the ACC in football.

[FireOgilvie]

The ACC was actually too tough this year from top to bottom... I think teams were worn out from having to go harder than in previous years every single game. This explains why the ACC faded in the NCAAT and at the end of the season. Duke beat Georgetown this year - and we held a middle-of-the-road Big East team (St. John's) to 10 first half points. The Big East is horrendous at the bottom of the conference in basketball. The Big East is a joke. Only 8 football teams but 16 basketball teams? Give me a break.

[Wander]

The ACC was actually too tough this year from top to bottom... I think teams were worn out from having to go harder than in previous years every single game. This explains why the ACC faded in the NCAAT and at the end of the season.

That's nonsense and you know it. It's clear the ACC was better than the Big East this year but this reasoning is ridiculous. None of the ACC teams in the tournament were beat by lesser teams - they were all beat by better or equivalent opponents.

[rthomas]

Actually the joke is on the ACC for taking our two thug teams and improving the reputation of the Big East in one fell swoop.

I do think the ACC is better than the BE in baseball and some of the nonrevenue sports.

[feldspar]

That's nonsense and you know it. It's clear the ACC was better than the Big East this year but this reasoning is ridiculous. None of the ACC teams in the tournament were beat by lesser teams - they were all beat by better or equivalent opponents.

Agreed.

Duke lost to VCU. Probably the worst loss of the ACC in the tourney, but VCU almost beat Pitt and could have easily landed in the Sweet Sixteen.

Georgia Tech lost to UNLV, which went to the S16 and gave Oregon a run for their money before folding.

Virginia Tech lost to So. Illinois, which is making a case as the strongest and most consistent mid-major team, they took Kansas to the brink.

Maryland folded earlier than they probably should have against Butler, but Butler played great basketball and nearly knocked off Flawda.

UNC was one choke away from making the Final Four.

BC lost to Final Four participant Georgetown.

Virginia lost to Tennessee, which has been a good team all season, took down Florida in the regular season, and gave Ohio State all they could handle.

So, yeah, the ACC went 7-7, but with the exception of VCU and maayyyybbbee Butler, it's not like we lost to crappy teams that didn't deserve to beat in the Dance or anything.

[Wander]

Exactly.

Southern Illinois is a significantly better team than Virginia Tech.
Georgetown is a significantly better team than BC.
UNLV is a significantly better team than Georgia Tech.

UNC and Georgetown are about equal, Virginia and Tennessee are about equal, Maryland and Butler are about equal, and Duke and VCU are about equal.

No one lost to a lesser team because they were "tired."

[pamtar]

As far as football goes, this was the most upside down year in recent memory for both conferences. Miami was uncharacteristicly down as was Fla St. And I mean Rutgers isnt exactly your annual contender...neither is L-ville. Ironically, BC and VT were among the top in the hoops realm while Duke and MD had an off year. UCONN and Syracuse also experienced difficulties to say the least. I think the expansion has not proven either conference to be better than the other in either sport. What it has done is allowed the SEC to become the top in the east by creating unprecedented parity within our two leagues. Its too early to judge but I think that eventually the ACC will regain the top spot. You cant hold down the elite teams who struggled in both sports for very long as we will see next year when Duke reclaims the national throne and Fla. St. wins the ACC.

[The Gordog]

The ACC is indisputably the best in Men's Soccer.

[CMS2478]

Actually the joke is on the ACC for taking our two thug teams and improving the reputation of the Big East in one fell swoop.

I do think the ACC is better than the BE in baseball and some of the nonrevenue sports.

I thought you were a Duke fan, this sounds more like you are WVU fan first. :confused:

[FireOgilvie]

That's nonsense and you know it. It's clear the ACC was better than the Big East this year but this reasoning is ridiculous. None of the ACC teams in the tournament were beat by lesser teams - they were all beat by better or equivalent opponents.

Nonsense? I said they were worn out - I didn't mean to imply they were actually physically exhausted - although some of the Duke freshmen faded at the end of the year. What I should have clarified was that the strength of the conference hurt their records, which in turn hurt their seeding... which hurts the overall NCAAT record. Losing a lot of games in the season also has to hurt confidence - you know you can be beaten. Look at Duke. In last year's ACC they would not have been 8-8. More like 11-5. You said:

"Southern Illinois is a significantly better team than Virginia Tech.
Georgetown is a significantly better team than BC.
UNLV is a significantly better team than Georgia Tech.

UNC and Georgetown are about equal, Virginia and Tennessee are about equal, Maryland and Butler are about equal, and Duke and VCU are about equal."

THAT is nonsense. If the conference was down this year then nearly every ACC team would have had an improved record and better seeding in the tournament. UNC was the exception obviously... but they still had 6 losses - this would usually not give a team a number 1 seed. So. Illinois "significantly better" than Va Tech? Maybe more consistent... but that comes back to the ACC strength. UNLV is not significantly better than Georgia Tech. All of those ACC teams you say are "about equal" lost. This was the strongest the ACC has been from top to bottom in awhile... and it correlates with the worst ACC performance in a long time. "But that just has to do with seeding!" If the teams hadn't had their records beaten up in conference play by unexpected losses to the usual bottom-feeders, their seeds would be higher, they would have played easier teams in the first rounds, and the ACC record would be vastly improved. An example is last year... our overall record was much better with only 4 teams in the tournament... and that happened to correlate with a weak conference year.

[rthomas]

CMS2478, I was just trying to start something. I am actually an huge ACC fan first and rarely a BE fan, except for WVU (and now pulling for Georgetown in the FF). I grew up as an ACC fan when South Carolian was in the league. I saw them leave, I saw GT enter (I liked that move). I saw FSU enter (I was less favorable about that) and now... I am an ACC fan who thought that the recent expansion was a bad idea and only about greed.

I'm glad that it has come back to bite the ACC's butt. I'm serious that the BE is very happy that VT and Miami are now the ACC's problem (look at Miami's fight last year, shooting etc. and two years ago VT quarterback (younger Vick) trying to hurt somebody and IIRC spitting on oposing players).

AND maybe I'm a little bitter too. I really wish that ACC had us (WVU) instead of one of them. Afterall, this year we have proven we can play football witht the ACC (beat Georgia Tech in the Gator Bowl) as well as basketball (beat NCSU twice and Clemson last night in the NIT final).

[feldspar]

CMS2478, I was just trying to start something. I am actually an huge ACC fan first and rarely a BE fan, except for WVU (and now pulling for Georgetown in the FF). I grew up as an ACC fan when South Carolian was in the league. I saw them leave, I saw GT enter (I liked that move). I saw FSU enter (I was less favorable about that) and now... I am an ACC fan who thought that the recent expansion was a bad idea and only about greed.

I'm glad that it has come back to bite the ACC's butt. I'm serious that the BE is very happy that VT and Miami are now the ACC's problem (look at Miami's fight last year, shooting etc. and two years ago VT quarterback (younger Vick) trying to hurt somebody and IIRC spitting on oposing players).

AND maybe I'm a little bitter too. I really wish that ACC had us (WVU) instead of one of them. Afterall, this year we have proven we can play football witht the ACC (beat Georgia Tech in the Gator Bowl) as well as basketball (beat NCSU twice and Clemson last night in the NIT final).

I would have much rather had WVU than those hooligans in Blacksburg.

[Wander]

THAT is nonsense. If the conference was down this year then nearly every ACC team would have had an improved record and better seeding in the tournament. UNC was the exception obviously... but they still had 6 losses - this would usually not give a team a number 1 seed. So. Illinois "significantly better" than Va Tech? Maybe more consistent... but that comes back to the ACC strength. UNLV is not significantly better than Georgia Tech. All of those ACC teams you say are "about equal" lost. This was the strongest the ACC has been from top to bottom in awhile... and it correlates with the worst ACC performance in a long time. "But that just has to do with seeding!" If the teams hadn't had their records beaten up in conference play by unexpected losses to the usual bottom-feeders, their seeds would be higher, they would have played easier teams in the first rounds, and the ACC record would be vastly improved. An example is last year... our overall record was much better with only 4 teams in the tournament... and that happened to correlate with a weak conference year.

Southern Illinois is significantly better than Virginia Tech. They have an RPI about 25 spots better, have a better record, a better conference record, a better road/neutral record, a better record against top teams, and beat Virgnia Tech twice this year. Southern Illinois is a borderline Top 10 team, while VT is a borderline Top 25 team.

All the same arguments hold true for UNLV vs. Georgia Tech - UNLV has an RPI about 40 spots higher, a much better road record, etc.

If you objectively compare these teams, it's very, very clear to see that UNLV and SIU are better by significant margins. The point is not to trash talk VT or GT, because they're fine teams. But SIU and UNLV were simply better teams this year by any standard.

Also, I don't know how you can bring seedings into this, considering Virginia and Duke were overseeded, Georgia Tech possibly shouldn't have even been in, and UNC got a 1 seed.