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Jumbo
11-10-2008, 09:06 PM
80-49 victory for the good guys. Your comments go here!

freedevil
11-10-2008, 09:07 PM
Liked what I saw from Miles. Did not expect him to be as physically mature as he is. Kyle played great.

Obviously a little slow start for the good guys, but it's early.

Go Duke!

Wander
11-10-2008, 09:07 PM
Those 30 seconds sure were fun.

RainingThrees
11-10-2008, 09:09 PM
Good game from Nolan too 15 points. LT also had a strong game with 12 points and 5 reb. Hopefully he will give us a consistant output like tonight.

camcraz25
11-10-2008, 09:09 PM
Great game crazies! Nice and loud the whole game...but I do have a question. Was I hearing things, or was there a 'tar' 'heels' call and answer chant going on? Please tell me it wasn't and that my hearing's just going bad!

geraldsneighbor
11-10-2008, 09:10 PM
A win is a win. Sort of reminded me or the 05-06 opener against Boston. Struggled to set a pace and find a rhythm, but still got the job done. I was impressed with Singler as always. I think Nolan will settle in a the point, I just hope it doesn't effect Greg's ability to get hot and hit his outside shots. On the inside, Lance looks like he has improved. Elliot, Miles, and Olek are young but each showed signs as Marv Albert would say. I'm excited to see tomorrow's game. Ga Southern two years ago played tough in Cameron for a half. Should be exciting.

BlueintheFace
11-10-2008, 09:11 PM
Positives:
1) Scheyer looked amazing in the first half when everyone else was out of sync.
2) Kyle shot well from the free throw line and looked especially chippy out of the gate... even though he forgot how to hit a layup
3) After a very very rough start, Nolan handled the offense well and had great shot selection

Negatives:
1) I'm not sure, but I think Gerald Henderson played today. He had maybe two good drives to the right for the bank shot, but was largely absent.
2) The post play was nothing to write home about... especially against Presbyterian
3) Ball movement was pretty terrible on offense throughout... and as a result the turnovers were numerous (21).

CLT Devil
11-10-2008, 09:11 PM
Really liked the look with Smith and Paulus on the floor at the same time. Something just seems like it's missing when Paulus isnt in the huddle doing all the talking. Very good game overall by Smith. Singler makes it looks easy. Hendo will get his, good to see he didnt try and force it too much and end up getting a charge or taking bad shots. Lots of legitimate players on this team, hope K keeps up a good rotation and doesnt trim the bench minutes like he has in the past.

kramerbr
11-10-2008, 09:13 PM
A pretty good season opener for Duke. It did appear that they hit a wall in the 2nd half though. At one point late, they were actually being outscored in the 2nd half.

beltwayBD
11-10-2008, 09:14 PM
Did not see it (no ESPNU) -- but can someone please tell me that Zoub fouling out in 7 minutes is a stat mistake???

geraldsneighbor
11-10-2008, 09:16 PM
Absolutely not.

DBFAN
11-10-2008, 09:18 PM
They looked pretty good for their first game. Hopefully the freshman will soon be as comfortable at the beginning of a game as they are at the end. I too was a little confused by the lack of Henderson, but they also have another game tomorrow, so there is no use in wasting energy whey Kyle and Jon were having good games. It just bothered me the Henderson seem to be frustrated when they showed him during timeouts. But I guess we all have bad days at the office.

Go Duke

Jumbo
11-10-2008, 09:19 PM
-Loved the fact that Singler wasn't hanging out around the arc. This was the Kyle we saw for the first half of last season -- attacking, using his versatility, playing with confidence and an edge.

-Loved that Scheyer had the ball in his hands way more than last year, and good things generally happened.

-Loved the activity of McClure and Thomas defensively, on the boards, and even on offense at times.

-Wasn't thrilled with the frosh. Plumlee looked nervous. E-Mail was frantic -- he keeps shuffling his feet like a DB on defense for no reason. Wasteful movement. He needs to calm down. Only got to see Czyz in Garbage Time, but we got the expected dunk and travelling violation. They'll improve. It's very early.

All in all, a fine win. It's hard to take too much away from a game like this. Let's take care of business tomorrow and get ourselves to NY.

Jumbo
11-10-2008, 09:20 PM
Did not see it (no ESPNU) -- but can someone please tell me that Zoub fouling out in 7 minutes is a stat mistake???

Not a mistake. It was a tough night for Zoubek, although he actually had a nice stretch for about 2 or 3 minutes in the second half. He got called for a couple of cheap fouls, and struggled with the fact that he had like 8 inches on everyone else in the game.

mapei
11-10-2008, 09:22 PM
Did not see it (no ESPNU) -- but can someone please tell me that Zoub fouling out in 7 minutes is a stat mistake???

You read correctly. He looked pretty bad much of that time. If there's such a thing as an unimpressive 30-point win, this was it. Tons of fouls and turnovers. Lots of athleticism and good moments, but on the whole I can't say much good about this game. Jon may be the exception. Kyle was incredibly active - it seemed like every possession went through him - but he mixed in some sloppiness of his own with his good play.

Nothing worth worrying about, but nothing much to be impressed with, either. They probably would have played better against a better opponent.

BlueintheFace
11-10-2008, 09:25 PM
Can somebody please just reassure me by asserting that Gerald is simply coasting right now so he can bring it tomorrow on one night's rest? I mean, I was expecting him to step up right out of the gates and look for playmaking opportunities more. He was a ghost tonight...

grossbus
11-10-2008, 09:25 PM
Not a mistake. It was a tough night for Zoubek, although he actually had a nice stretch for about 2 or 3 minutes in the second half. He got called for a couple of cheap fouls, and struggled with the fact that he had like 8 inches on everyone else in the game.


actually, he had 4 in four minutes (before he reached that stretch jumbo mentioned).

your "struggled" comment made me laugh, jumbo. you probably didn't intend it that way.

gvtucker
11-10-2008, 09:26 PM
McClure is going to play a lot more than I initially thought he would. During the two exhibitions and then tonight, when McClure entered the game, the defense picked up significantly.

kramerbr
11-10-2008, 09:27 PM
Duke did go on quite a scoring spurt in the 2nd half for a bit. I believe it was about 7pts in under 10 seconds.

Elliot had a pretty nice 360 dunk at the end.

Jumbo
11-10-2008, 09:28 PM
McClure is going to play a lot more than I initially thought he would. During the two exhibitions and then tonight, when McClure entered the game, the defense picked up significantly.

The other interesting thing was that he played a lot more at the "3" than he ever has. Granted, it was with Singler and Thomas, and Singler functions much like a "3" on offense. But it was a change from McClure's usual role.

beltwayBD
11-10-2008, 09:32 PM
Not a mistake. It was a tough night for Zoubek, although he actually had a nice stretch for about 2 or 3 minutes in the second half. He got called for a couple of cheap fouls, and struggled with the fact that he had like 8 inches on everyone else in the game.

Bummer -- but thanks for the confirmation. I'm sure he'll get more time on the floor now that his foot is healthy, but tonight was not his night.

Saratoga2
11-10-2008, 09:36 PM
Sheyer plays within himself and seems to see the game develop in slow motion. He is really the settling influence on the team. Very good game for him except for the foul trouble.

Singler also played very well. He will be a star this year. I would love to see him play a bit more under control ala Scheyer.

Smith and Paulus had decent games but they need to take more care with the ball. Way too many turnovers and that would burn us against a competitive team. Since it is the first real game, I would give them a bye on the turnovers and look for improvement going forward.

Henderson was quiet tonight but the talent is there and it will come out as the level of play demanded goes up. He has the physique of Nelson last year.

Thomas played well tonight and has shown definite improvement. He needs to watch the fould due to overaggression, since he will be needed for quite a few minutes if the display by out other bigs is any indication.

I like Plumlee's athleticism. I see that he will be capable of a lot more as he gains experience. Zoubek looked out of synch. I truly hope he will show more than what we saw tonight.

We just kept rolling the athletes out there, and all of them made some positive contributions. This has got to be the deepest team that Duke has had in a long while. They will be fun to watch as they develop into a really formidable team this year.

roywhite
11-10-2008, 09:40 PM
Presbyterian Falls at Methodist Flats.

Kind of an Elton Casey reference for fellow old-timers.

mgtr
11-10-2008, 09:44 PM
Though not on offense, on defense McClure reminds me a lot of Larry Bird. He generally seems to be in the right place to get a rebound or to block a shot. He seems to understand angles better than most players. If he was 3 inches taller, he would probably be a superstar. As someone else posted, he will play more this year than many expected.

Bob Green
11-10-2008, 09:45 PM
I listened to the post game interview on the radio and Coach Krzyzewski stated, "We made some bad mistakes on the offensive end."

I expected us to score about 10 - 15 more points than we did but I'll take a 31 point victory without complaint. With another game tomorrow night the team has the opportunity to correct their mistakes and move forward toward some stiff competition in Madison Square Garden. It is time to put first things first and beat Georgia Southern.

riverside6
11-10-2008, 09:47 PM
Here's our enhanced box score (http://www.scacchoops.com/ViewHDGame.asp?hSchedule=1813)...

One interesting thing I reallly like about our box scores are Game Trends. Here we chart the Points Game Flow against Steal %. You can visually see that Duke's 1st half run was keyed by the steal...

http://www.scacchoops.com/files/DukePresFlow.jpg

edensquad
11-10-2008, 09:48 PM
Given that Coach K has said "We are not a young team," I was surprised to see: very little motion in our "motion offense." Lots of one-on-one creating off the dribble while 4 guys stand around ** ugh ** Not pretty!! Have not seen the box score, but can't imagine many assists in this style offense. Woud anyone else like to see more **passing** in the offensive set???

I was surprised we did not pick up full court more; I read several pre-season articles speculating that Duke would be a "40 minutes of hell" type team.... did not see any indication of that tonight.

Oh, well, we shall see.....

DoubleDuke Dad
11-10-2008, 09:51 PM
Not a mistake. It was a tough night for Zoubek, although he actually had a nice stretch for about 2 or 3 minutes in the second half. He got called for a couple of cheap fouls, and struggled with the fact that he had like 8 inches on everyone else in the game.


Iíve been thinking about it and Iíve finally figured out why Zoubek gets all of these fouls and walking calls. The refs have decided to make up for their lack of calls on Hansbrough by calling them on Zoubek. In that way the total number of calls are correct. :)

mapei
11-10-2008, 09:51 PM
I should add . . .

Another good: perimeter D
Another bad: terrible outside shooting

riverside6
11-10-2008, 09:53 PM
Given that Coach K has said "We are not a young team," I was surprised to see: very little motion in our "motion offense." Lots of one-on-one creating off the dribble while 4 guys stand around ** ugh ** Not pretty!! Have not seen the box score, but can't imagine many assists in this style offense. Woud anyone else like to see more **passing** in the offensive set???

I was surprised we did not pick up full court more; I read several pre-season articles speculating that Duke would be a "40 minutes of hell" type team.... did not see any indication of that tonight.

Oh, well, we shall see.....

I really agree, the team looked pretty rough offensively, but my guess is this team is really dedicating itself in practice defensively. There's no doubt that this team will ultimately be successful based upon their potential to be great at defense.

On the offense side, there was quite a bit lost through the lack of consistency.

I had a weird feeling about Gerald Henderson tonight. He really doesn't seem comfortable in his own skin for some reason. It's like he doesn't know how to step forward and want the ball and want to score. Compare his play tonight when he had the ball to Singler. Singler made moves with an authority and aggression while Henderson seemed to think 2 seconds before making a move.

wisteria
11-10-2008, 09:55 PM
I only hope Gerald is OK. I'm concerned. :confused:

CLT Devil
11-10-2008, 10:04 PM
I only hope Gerald is OK. I'm concerned. :confused:

As weird as it sounds, I think it was good that he didnt try and force too much by being overly aggressive, ala Markie when he used to get a lot of charges by going strong to the hoop. I'm sure he was frustrated, and in no way believe he's somehow saving his energy for tomorrow. His game will come, and he needs to let it come to him, which he did to a tee tonight; there was no point where he needed to take over the game with his athletic skills and he did have a few bad bounces.

Devil in the Blue Dress
11-10-2008, 10:09 PM
Presbyterian Falls at Methodist Flats.

Kind of an Elton Casey reference for fellow old-timers.

Now that's a "way back machine" sort of reference!

SushiChef
11-10-2008, 10:09 PM
Duke did go on quite a scoring spurt in the 2nd half for a bit. I believe it was about 7pts in under 10 seconds.

Elliot had a pretty nice 360 dunk at the end.

I agree it was a nice dunk, but it was completely unnecessary and in my opinion, a bit tacky. There were 60 seconds left and we're up by 30+. A layup would have been much classier.

Ima Facultiwyfe
11-10-2008, 10:09 PM
This is the best Devil we've EVER had!!!!!!!!
Love, Ima:D

wisteria
11-10-2008, 10:11 PM
This is the best Devil we've EVER had!!!!!!!!
Love, Ima:D

I'm too young to say "ever", but that is a GREAT devil!!!

Oriole Way
11-10-2008, 10:16 PM
How sweet was Elliot's 360 dunk?

CLT Devil
11-10-2008, 10:19 PM
This is the best Devil we've EVER had!!!!!!!!
Love, Ima:D

I concur!!!! Loved the old one and had a couple of buddies who were the 'Devil' - this one is meaner and is all business, the old one was a little too cartoonish, IMO. Now I can make fun of my Tarhole friends even more for having the ugliest (and most perplexing) mascot in College.

BlueintheFace
11-10-2008, 10:20 PM
he certainly can jump...

FireOgilvie
11-10-2008, 10:22 PM
I miss Taylor King.

CLT Devil
11-10-2008, 10:23 PM
Also, the cheerleaders had new unis that looked good...new black design.

jlear
11-10-2008, 10:24 PM
Great game crazies! Nice and loud the whole game...but I do have a question. Was I hearing things, or was there a 'tar' 'heels' call and answer chant going on? Please tell me it wasn't and that my hearing's just going bad!

I think you heard the Dirty....hose...cheer. Even the Blue Hose fans were laughing.

Acymetric
11-10-2008, 10:29 PM
I miss Taylor King.

I too wish we had someone to drop 30 in a gimme game early in the season, only to be largely ineffective when the games got serious. He did get 30 points once, right? Or close to it? I'm pretty sure I remember that, if I'm wrong, yell at me and I'll take it back.

Not to say I don't think he would be nice to have, but I'd say he would only be above Czyz in the rotation, absent a significant improvement in strength and conditioning.

Ima Facultiwyfe
11-10-2008, 10:39 PM
That's a great cheer! Glad to see it made it back. AND great to see it saved for only the most outstanding plays! Good job, Crazies. And yep, the cheerleaders looked really sharp. We enjoyed the videos and other camera shots, too!

I sure wish more of you upstairs would dance with me on "Every Time We Touch!" Sure is lonesome being the only crazy one up there in the next-to-the-top row.

Love, Ima

wisteria
11-10-2008, 10:45 PM
I like the two new additions adopted by the Grad section during free throws. The "newspaper" one and the "I'm-turning-my-back-and-not-looking-at-you" one. Maybe because they are new, I think the players actually got confused. (Heck, I was confused the first time.) The success rates of these two are quite good so far.

I wish we could stop using the "5-4-3-2-1-beep" one. Never works. They just shoot after the "beep" and it was not distracting at all. I think the old fashioned "sheeeeeeeeeee-ah!" works much better. :D

bfree
11-10-2008, 10:46 PM
I agree it was a nice dunk, but it was completely unnecessary and in my opinion, a bit tacky. There were 60 seconds left and we're up by 30+. A layup would have been much classier.

I agree. Did Coach mention this at all in his post-game comments? I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see any Elliot tomorrow, or if he's running sprints the next free day. Though maybe he probably should get a break... tough call, don't want to dampen his confidence, but showboating is never really necessary.






But man did he get up!

III
11-10-2008, 10:47 PM
I like the two new additions adopted by the Grad section during free throws. The "newspaper" one and the "I'm-turning-my-back-and-not-looking-at-you" one. Maybe because they are new, I think the players actually got confused. (Heck, I was confused the first time.) The success rates of these two are quite good so far.

I wish we could stop using the "5-4-3-2-1-beep" one. Never works. They just shoot after the "beep" and it was not distracting at all. I think the old fashioned "sheeeeeeeeeee-ah!" works much better. :D

The "turning-my-back" one failed for the first time tonight. It started at the end of last season, and opponents are something like 1-8 shooting against it.

jimsumner
11-10-2008, 10:47 PM
FWIW-

King scored 27 points v. Eastern Kentucky last year. 6-11 on 3s.

K thought Duke's biggest problem on offense was not making the extra pass. Too many guys open not getting the ball. Missed some layups.

Discussion of Zoubek and fouls. K went about as far as he could go without incurring the wrath of the ACC. Clearly he thinks that Brian is not getting a fair shake from the officials.

Too many turnovers, too many fouls. Not unexpected for a game on November 10. Hard to find any flow. Duke's D was at a pretty high level.

Lance Thomas played quite well.

I saw nothing from Ga. Southern to suggest a competitive game for tomorrow night. They played a lot of zone v. Houston. Will be interesting to see if they try that tomorrow.

SushiChef
11-10-2008, 10:52 PM
I like the two new additions adopted by the Grad section during free throws. The "newspaper" one and the "I'm-turning-my-back-and-not-looking-at-you" one. Maybe because they are new, I think the players actually got confused. (Heck, I was confused the first time.) The success rates of these two are quite good so far.

I wish we could stop using the "5-4-3-2-1-beep" one. Never works. They just shoot after the "beep" and it was not distracting at all. I think the old fashioned "sheeeeeeeeeee-ah!" works much better. :D

I agree. I especially like the "newspaper". What about instead of the "sssshhhhhhh ------ ah" a "sssssshhhhhhh - over the line" in homage to The Big Lebowski. Also, it may raise doubt in the person shooting the ball that he is actually over the line.

camcraz25
11-10-2008, 10:53 PM
I think you heard the Dirty....hose...cheer. Even the Blue Hose fans were laughing.

Oh ok, whew! I thought some fans from down the road had snuck in with the tickets that were available for sale to the general public!

sagegrouse
11-10-2008, 11:04 PM
How sweet was Elliot's 360 dunk?

Don't you think that if the Oriole Way were applied to basketball, E-Will's 360 would be totally inappropriate?

I thought he should have been removed from the game.

Hmmm. I must be grumpier than usual on the first day of the season.

sagegrouse

footballfan2
11-10-2008, 11:10 PM
My thoughts:

1) Defense was good
2) Offense not so good. Too many TOs
3) It appears right now this team is a two headed horse: Scheyer and Singler.
4) Disappointed in Henderson's play today.
5) Very disappointed in Zoubeck. The guy is a junior and he literally plays no better than when he was a freshman. Slow. Takes way too long to develop his own play. Gets beat to the rebounds. Not a shotblocker.
5) Felt Lance Thomas has improved. Not has floppy as last year. Bigger and stronger. Willing to bang inside more.
6) Neutral about Nolan Smith. Didn't really run the offense well, but had one nice drive for a lay-up. He needs to run the offense better. He's a far better perimeter defender than Paulus.
7) If only McClure had developed a better outside 15-18" shot... this guy would be a pretty good SF. Right now he is an offensive liability that allows the opponent to cheat off of and double team other players.
8) Czyz is high energy.

I will await more definitive judgement until several more games are played.

wisteria
11-10-2008, 11:15 PM
I was almost giving up on Lance gaining any weight. But he indeed looks bigger and stronger now. (Or was it because the Hose were so small?) Surely it's going to help his confidence.

ForeverBlowingBubbles
11-10-2008, 11:17 PM
if Ewill does that on UNC, it will have been worth the practice dunk we just witnessed in the first game of the season.

Jumbo
11-10-2008, 11:20 PM
Given that Coach K has said "We are not a young team," I was surprised to see: very little motion in our "motion offense." Lots of one-on-one creating off the dribble while 4 guys stand around ** ugh ** Not pretty!! Have not seen the box score, but can't imagine many assists in this style offense. Woud anyone else like to see more **passing** in the offensive set???

I was surprised we did not pick up full court more; I read several pre-season articles speculating that Duke would be a "40 minutes of hell" type team.... did not see any indication of that tonight.

Oh, well, we shall see.....

1) We haven't run a motion offense in a long time. We ran the Phoenix set last year, which relies on spacing, ball-screens and dribble-drives. I actually thought there was more movement off the ball, screens away, motion, etc. in this game than last year.

2) I don't think anyone expected "40 minutes of hell" with non-stop full-court pressure. That's not Duke's way. I expect we will press in spurts, but I imagine K wants to get the half-court D down first. Besides, pressing against Presbyterian just would be rubbing it in.

Jumbo
11-10-2008, 11:23 PM
I concur!!!! Loved the old one and had a couple of buddies who were the 'Devil' - this one is meaner and is all business, the old one was a little too cartoonish, IMO. Now I can make fun of my Tarhole friends even more for having the ugliest (and most perplexing) mascot in College.

I prefer cartoonish mascots to mean ones. They make me laugh.

Skitzle
11-10-2008, 11:23 PM
Bummer -- but thanks for the confirmation. I'm sure he'll get more time on the floor now that his foot is healthy, but tonight was not his night.

I expect him to foul out a lot this year. 5 fouls in 7-10 min from Zoubek, is still time where he was disrupting the other teams offense in some way or another. It only requires another 30 minutes at the 5 from a combination of Singler/Plumlee/Thomas.

Even on the worst of days, that translate to just about 10-15 min at the 5 for Singler. I can deal with that given he probably played 20-25 minutes at the 5 every game last year.

Edouble
11-10-2008, 11:33 PM
2) I don't think anyone expected "40 minutes of hell" with non-stop full-court pressure. That's not Duke's way. I expect we will press in spurts, but I imagine K wants to get the half-court D down first. Besides, pressing against Presbyterian just would be rubbing it in.

Did we press at all? I was shocked that we didn't press one time against Lenoir-Rhyne (I was at that game, I did not see tonight's game). I understand the need to not rub anything in, but 31 points is not a complete drubbing.

Coach K talked a few times about how valuable Lance is to us in the press. If Z played only 7 minutes tonight (yikes!!!) I'd have to think that LT probably played a little more than expected. Duke is know for tenacious half court D, but I don't see why we couldn't practice full court and half court defense in the same game. We don't want to unveil the press for the first time against UCLA!

edensquad
11-10-2008, 11:35 PM
Jumbo, what we saw here (2 die-hard fans and I) was Paulus/Smith passing to someone on the perimeter & that someone trying to create off the dribble.... essentially a "one pass" offense. Interestingly, Coach K mentioned in the presser that he'd like to see more passing. Whether it is "motion" or not is parsing.... 4 guys standing while 1 guy creates is not a great offense. We didn't see many back screens or pick and rolls.... just isolation 1 on 1.

We also noted, as it relates to your Phase I, very little passing on the break (outlet pass and mucho dribbling). Granted, this is the first game, and ya gotta believe that things will run more efficiently. 33 baskets/13 assists (I think that's correct) ain't too great.

jimsumner
11-10-2008, 11:36 PM
About ten minutes into the game, Zoubek, Plumlee, and Thomas all had two fouls. This led to Duke using some smaller lineups more than they had hoped to.

Assuming the fouls get under control, this should change.

Plumlee and Williams were visibly nervous. That also should change.

jimsumner
11-10-2008, 11:38 PM
BTW, Duke did press. Presbyterian shot something like 32%, committed 28 turnovers, and scored 49 points. Whine about the offense if you wish but the D was pretty darn good.

delfrio
11-10-2008, 11:39 PM
I think our outside (3pt) shooting was pretty good actually. The only person who struggled was Paulus, and several of his shots were as close as you can get without the points. He keeps shooting and the points will come.

Devilhawks
11-10-2008, 11:39 PM
I think you heard the Dirty....hose...cheer. Even the Blue Hose fans were laughing.

During Duke free throw attempts, Presby fans chanted "Blue" "Hose" in the Tar Heel style.

In fact, there were two girls dressed up as Presby cheerleaders who brought a sign with "Blue" on one side on "Hose" on the other. After seeing that, the line monitors made a sign that said "We make it rain on dem". One guy went into the Presby section and held that sign above the "Hose" sign whenever the girls held up "Hose". Great stuff

Jumbo
11-10-2008, 11:44 PM
Jumbo, what we saw here (2 die-hard fans and I) was Paulus/Smith passing to someone on the perimeter & that someone trying to create off the dribble.... essentially a "one pass" offense. Interestingly, Coach K mentioned in the presser that he'd like to see more passing. Whether it is "motion" or not is parsing.... 4 guys standing while 1 guy creates is not a great offense. We didn't see many back screens or pick and rolls.... just isolation 1 on 1.

We also noted, as it relates to your Phase I, very little passing on the break (outlet pass and mucho dribbling). Granted, this is the first game, and ya gotta believe that things will run more efficiently. 33 baskets/13 assists (I think that's correct) ain't too great.


I understand. I'm just saying this isn't a new pheomenon. Last year's offense was all about standing around. If we're running the Phoenix offense, ball movement and motion without the ball aren't stressed. Spreading the floor, attacking off the dribble and kicking out are key. Granted, I'd like to see less of that and more pure motion, too.

buzz
11-10-2008, 11:49 PM
One silver lining I saw in Zoubek's effort was that he was physically aggressive on multiple plays. This is something I've been waiting to see. Now, the question remains whether he can learn to control his arms and body so that he is muscling his opponents without drawing obvious fouls. If he is able to do that consistently, it would represent a major leap forward in his progress.

dahntaysdawg
11-10-2008, 11:52 PM
Are you guys serious about benching Elliot for his 360 at the end of the game??? I remember Ricky Price doing the exact same thing in 1998 and nobody seemed to care. Maybe I'm too "new school" but I really wouldn't care to see a Jeff Mullins "one leg up bank shot" in that situation.


WAY TO GET UP E-MAIL!!!!

CLT Devil
11-10-2008, 11:53 PM
Plumlee and Williams def looked nervous. However, I am very encouraged by how athletic and quick Plumlee was for his size. There were a few times he could have done a better job of moving his feet, but it looks like we've got a player. I say give him Zoub's minutes and see what happens...

dukeballer2294
11-11-2008, 12:11 AM
just have to say... how big of an earfold will k give to elliot after his 360 "showboat" dunk?

Neals384
11-11-2008, 12:22 AM
I thought the frosh showed well, except EWill needs to pick it up on defense. On one play he totally lost his man: two-on-one under the basket and he was still at the free throw line.

Neal

Acymetric
11-11-2008, 12:55 AM
Hey, I started typing a rather lengthy explanation/apology for those who had been offended by my comment, and after I was done, the comment was gone. So I'll sum it up and say that this wasn't the appropriate place for comments like that, and that I'm sorry if I offended anyone. I was just being lighthearted, but it ended up coming off as off color/offensive. So I apologize for that.

As far as the game, I missed all but the last 8 minutes (though I did bring a radio to my class and tuned in for score updates periodically) but I liked what I saw at the end. Obviously I missed Z's ineffectiveness, all I saw was his one bucket. I don't have a problem with the 360 dunk at the end, but coach K might feel differently, and if I heard that he was on Elliot's case about the play I wouldn't be surprised, and I wouldn't blame K a bit. It was fun to watch as a fan, and I'm sure fun to do as a player, but it might have lacked a little bit of class that coach K is so fond of. Though he is also trying to really bring back the idea of having fun...so who knows?

I think this team is going to be tons of fun to watch this year, and lucky us we get to see it again in about 20 hours.

Lulu
11-11-2008, 01:08 AM
If I were an official, and went more than a couple minutes without calling a foul on Zoubek I'd be afraid of being chastised later. And when he's on the ball... that's just a gimme, you know, like the putt you can just pick up.

DukeCO2009
11-11-2008, 01:11 AM
Are you guys serious about benching Elliot for his 360 at the end of the game??? I remember Ricky Price doing the exact same thing in 1998 and nobody seemed to care. Maybe I'm too "new school" but I really wouldn't care to see a Jeff Mullins "one leg up bank shot" in that situation.


WAY TO GET UP E-MAIL!!!!

Totally agree. Let the haters hate all they want, but that was a sick dunk regardless. I loved it--it showed a fire that we haven't had the past few years. In a way, I thought it was even symbolic: not only can we finish games this season, we can finish them in style. I suspect K thought the same thing, or a) he would've called an immediate TO and EWill would've been pulled, b) he would've been visibly disgusted (think Maggette putting his feat on the backboard), and c) he would've discussed the matter in the post-game presser. I understand why a few people might be put off by the showmanship of the move, but it's nothing to worry about.

trinity92
11-11-2008, 01:12 AM
One of the hardest Duke games I've ever had to watch. It was just horrible. I'm going to chalk it up to rust and forget it ever happened.

With regard to EW's dunk, all you Franceses need to settle down. If K didn't bench Roshown McLeod for his face-making antics (still a source of embarrassment for me), I don't see any problem with EW's 360 dunk.

1. Most starters were out and I think we had all three freshmen in the game. I think backups are entitled to play as hard as they can no matter how much we're up;

2. We weren't up by that much for a home opener against a borderline DI school; and

3. EW didn't woof at all-- he just made a killer dunk.

If not at that moment and in that situation, when would have been more appropriate for EW to try a tough dunk? I sure wouldn't want him trying that with the game in doubt.

BlueintheFace
11-11-2008, 01:19 AM
Regarding E-Will's Dunk: I think K wants this team to have a little more swagger this year. Nolan, in particular, has been talking about Duke being tougher and playing with more of a swagger this time around. I believe there is a decent chance that K didn't mind it and even secretly liked to see it since it was his first points in Cameron and confidence will be important for his development. That being said, if he thought it was rubbing it in, then E-will might get an ear full.

Diddy
11-11-2008, 01:39 AM
I have a few observations/opinions.

First, I too was relatively impressed by the bigs. They were not gangbusters tonight, in any way shape or form. But they were active. Most importantly, they were capable. All three of the Bigs (or Cs, 5s, whateves) combined to be decent. I think a lot of people heard reports of Plumlee and were secretly hoping, in their heart of hearts, that he was going to shock the world and be pretty good. He will be, but maybe not immediately.

But, overall, the 5 position will not be the soft, unprotected underbelly at Duke. They were solid on D, and that picked up as the game went on. Thomas and Plumlee were bouncing arround for rebounds, and were generally in the right place. By Feb, Kyle might not have to play ANY significant minutes in the low post by himself. Lance and Plumlee are capable of handling the bulk of the minutes. At best, Zoubs will come on and alleviate their burden. At worst, he is a big guy who can take up space, lean on some opposition centers, and dole out 5 fouls of righteousness. Heck, I liked the potential I saw out of Olek. He was bouncy and aggressive. He will be good for 5 fouls this year, and when he is in I think he will at least get a few boards and buckets. Though he still needs a ton of work, he is further along than I feared. He has Joe Alexander potential written all over him.

I think the capable play of our post players really influenced Hendo's off night. Late last year, as he was comming on, Duke looked RADICALLY different than the team we had tonight. Yes, we only lost Demarcus, but the team has still changed tremendously. When Hendo was comming on last March, Duke was playing 4 guards and 1 forward for 80%+ of the game. And that 1 F, Singler, spent a lot of time floating on the perimeter. From G's pov, driving lanes must have looked like empty freeways late last year. With those lanes behind them, opposing D's had to lay off G to prevent drives. This opened up midrange J's or whatever for G. But there were no Dukies clogging up the lane, and keeping their Defenders with them, to impede his drives.

This year, Hendo's vista is drastically altered. Now, there will almost certainly always be a Duke Big in the low post. Either Plum or Thomas, or even Zoubs will almost always be in the game. Along with the improved posts, Singler has altered his body to allow him to work in the post more, rather than just floating on the perimeter like last March. For Hendo, the driving lanes are much more crowded than last year. He will have to adjust, and that mike take a couple of weeks, as Duke irons out its spacing.

Regarding Spacing, the New 3 line has affected Duke. I now believe, and this is purely opinion, that the new three line is one of the primary reasons that Nolan is starting. Paulus's chief asset is his outside stroke. And the new three reduces the value of that shot. First, the farther shot is bound to negatively impact his percentage, if only by a few points. He has spent his entire career learning to spot up on the previous line. That is more than a decade of practice. We, as fans, don't get this, but setting up at the previous line was probably more muscle memory than conscious thought. He had gone through motions and weaves designed to get himself to a certain spot and then shoot. Now he is having to learn to do it a foot further back. It is hard, and the new spacing is messing with everybody. I think it will bother Duke less than most other teams, but it will not be a seamless transition.

But, as for Paulus, it really hurts him the most. 1-5 from 3 land is not great. He is still a D liability that got burned a few times, but he also directs the team fairly well. But the increased difficulty of the three line hurts what is by far his most deadly weapon. That considered, Duke benefits from his game experience, and his value will increase as he, and the team, gets the new spacing down. Having the old (and still Women's) three line is a disaster, but one that probably can't be avoided.

The End.

PS. About Elliot's Dunk. I loved it. I love that he showboated on a lesser team in a blow out.

In olden times at Duke, the mighty Devils were HATED by our opponents. Ok, that hasn't really changed. But in olden times, a key component of that hatred was FEAR. That fear is missing now. It has definitely been missing since JJ and Shel left, and that fear may have been missing since Deng one and doned us. Fear has been replaced by Disrespect. They used to hate us because we we bullies. Now they hate us because we are dorks.

I want the fear back. I want our opponents to fear the blowout Dunk. I want them to lose sleep because they are haunted by nightmare visions of the "nerds" in Royal Blue going Billy Jack upside their heads. Duke will get back to being Duke when that fear is there. We need the swagger that comes with what Elliot did.

Opponents, and the rest of the basketball world, will never love Duke. Never. Not Ever. So give up that hope. We cannot convince them we are good guys. Until some Dukie can cure disease by hitting threes, Duke, her fans, and her players will be reviled.

And as a famous Italian once said, "tis better to be feared than loved." Dunk on Elliot. Bring back the fear.

roywhite
11-11-2008, 06:33 AM
Glad to hear Lance Thomas played well. He was credited with 2 assists, which is twice as much as his first season total and well on his way to exceeding last season's total of 10.

Didn't see the game, but I take this (and other reports) as a sign that he is more comfortable and aware on the court.

Oriole Way
11-11-2008, 07:43 AM
I think the play of Lance Thomas was perhaps the single most encouraging thing about the game. The game was poorly officiated, and it radically affected the flow of the game for both teams. But Duke in particular was adversely affected.

Ignatius07
11-11-2008, 07:52 AM
I was impressed by Thomas' activity, though a motor was never LT's problem. He put up good stats his freshman year in the early-season cupcake games. I'll wait to see how he does against UCLA and Purdue (while neither team has experienced and fearsome big-men, they do have highly-regarded bigs and are big-time schools).

Devilsfan
11-11-2008, 08:26 AM
Overall the game was painful to watch. I thought K's spin was interesting saying this was only the first game. I thought we returned everyone but Nelson. They have played together more than most teams in our league. Singler, Scheyer and McClure looked good though. Our point guards have a ways to go, IMO. My biggest question is when is G going to man up. All that natural talent he is saving needs to be impossed on the opponents.

Saratoga2
11-11-2008, 08:42 AM
To me, Scheyer was best at distributing the ball and making the offense go. Very smooth game last night except for his fouls.

Smith is fairly new at the point and will need to learn how to draw the defense and make the pass to an open man. He has all the tools, and should improve as he learns to create offense for others.

Paulus, who is now and old vet, still seems to want to make the spectacular pass. That would be okay if were more successful. He should be at a level where he is far less turnover prone.

To be a really great team, the turnovers must be held way down. Last night there were excuses, since we had a lot of new combinations on the floor, but our old vets should not be the ones making turnovers on bad decisions with the ball.

dukeENG2003
11-11-2008, 08:50 AM
E-Will's dunk was fine. The whole place wanted him to throw it up to Czyz, and he wanted to say "hey, I can dunk too". I liked it.

And keep in mind, with 45 seconds left, we came down, and he easily could have driven straight to the basket again, but pulled it out in typical Duke end of game style.

Let the kid (and the crazies) have some fun.

1Devil
11-11-2008, 08:52 AM
-Loved the fact that Singler wasn't hanging out around the arc.


I was not happy to see Singler spending some time playing freaking CENTER. This occurred toward the end of the first half...may have happened at other times as well.

Dr. Rosenrosen
11-11-2008, 08:53 AM
I think Zoubs just needs to slow down a little. You could see him anticipating getting the ball and thinking... I gotta make a quick move. He just turned right into the set defender twice and got called for the charge. His best offensive moment came later when he set himself and made a nice move to the middle. Even though he missed the baby hook, it was much more under control. With a little patience, he could have simply passed back out of the double teams that came his way. But that's hard to do when you're rushing to shoot without even seeing the basket first. I think he's got what it takes and am hopeful we'll see a more controlled style emerge over the next several games.

6th Man
11-11-2008, 08:58 AM
E-Will's dunk was fine. The whole place wanted him to throw it up to Czyz, and he wanted to say "hey, I can dunk too". I liked it.

And keep in mind, with 45 seconds left, we came down, and he easily could have driven straight to the basket again, but pulled it out in typical Duke end of game style.

Let the kid (and the crazies) have some fun.

I agree. Coach K's deal this year is about having some fun. Elliot was just having fun. It's not like he flexed his muscles after the dunk or thumped his chest or anything. Everyone needs to lighten up. If I was a recruit reading this and saw that fans were upset that a kid does a 360 at the end of the game, I might explore other options. It was nice to see a little swagger. Which like or not, you have to have some swagger to be good.

As far as the overall game...I am glad to see the coach and players were not happy. I hope they come out tonight and play like they can. I know last night was not Duke's best effort. A lot of unforced turnovers....Zoubs and Plumlee combine to go 1-4. For those of you that like what you saw from the bigs, I admire your optimism.

arnie
11-11-2008, 09:00 AM
I was not happy to see Singler spending some time playing freaking CENTER. This occurred toward the end of the first half...may have happened at other times as well.

Singler was all over the place, rebounding, bringing the ball up court, diving on the floor, playing the 5 and getting very tired. I would hope to see Plumlee pay many more minutes against these teams (2 fouls or not), because we know what Singler can do. Hopefully, Plumlee will play at least 15-20 minutes tonite.

1Devil
11-11-2008, 09:02 AM
I have a few observations/opinions.

First, I too was relatively impressed by the bigs. They were not gangbusters tonight, in any way shape or form. But they were active. Most importantly, they were capable...

...
I think the capable play of our post players really influenced Hendo's off night...

What game were you watching? Nothing really positive to talk about inside other than Lance. And Miles had a nice block at the end of the game. I certainly hope we see more from these guys tonight.

Inonehand
11-11-2008, 09:04 AM
Overall the game was painful to watch. I thought K's spin was interesting saying this was only the first game. I thought we returned everyone but Nelson. They have played together more than most teams in our league. Singler, Scheyer and McClure looked good though. Our point guards have a ways to go, IMO. My biggest question is when is G going to man up. All that natural talent he is saving needs to be impossed on the opponents.

I was at the game and witnessed Henderson's frustration on the offensive end quite often. Honestly, if we are going to play a pass and create type of offense then I have one suggestion...GET OUT OF G's WAY! This includes Singler. Many times G had the ball on the wing and he knew, I knew, we all knew he could take his man, but Singler or Plumlee or somebody was always in the driving lane. If anyone on this team can take it to the basket and create his own shot it is Henderson. Let him do it. He can kick it if he's not open.

chattpanther
11-11-2008, 09:09 AM
I don't think anyone has posted this but here is a link to the Williams 360 dunk:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1CYDLvEXpI

Exiled_Devil
11-11-2008, 09:17 AM
I should add . . .

Another good: perimeter D
Another bad: terrible outside shooting

I think the outside shooting may be effected by the new double line - I expect that it will take some time for people to adjust, and stop thinking about where the 3 pt line is.

My thoughts in general:

Love Scheyer's pull up jumper - don't remember him having that so consistently last year (may have been overshadowed by G's)

McClure and LT have been two of my favorite players since they each arrived. I am very excite to see Lance contributing solidly on both ends of the court, and have always been a proponent of Dave's addition on defense. I've always liked the defensive minded 'energy guy' - LT, Dave, Reggie, Freshman Shane. I always hope they will develop the way Shane did.

I am undecided on my opinion of the two headed PG. I noticed the variation in line up, and the fact that Scheyer, Singler, Henderson all can bring the ball up straight from the rebound, which may make the point position moot in the open court, but I am not sure that the clumsy offensive sets from last night aren't due to the points. Hopefully,this will get resolved with more practice and game time.

Rudy
11-11-2008, 09:31 AM
I am beginning to think refs expect Z to foul and therefore give the benefit of any doubt to his opposing player. Two plays in particular were unfair. One he turned and was called for lowering shoulder but it didn't look like he pushed into the player with it. The other had the defensive player crowding so close Z didn't have room to catch and turn. IMO neither of those would have gone against him in the pros. But it is college ball....

LT's play very nice, better controlled. I've always admired how quick he can go to the hoop after catching the ball but so often he seemed to miss the shot. Tonight he made quick moves and was 5/6, including a very nice drop step move on the side of the lane from a pass at the top of the key.

Greg creates turnovers on defense even when he doesn't get the stat for it. He will get beat off the dribble from time to time but with his doggedness and timely double teams he makes up for it. Evenly split time with Nolan, which I expect to continue. Nolan's play has noticeably improved, particularly on offense. He still had some errant passes, but he wasn't alone in that.

Williams' dunk? The game is still supposed to be fun and that was fine as long as the game was out of reach. If it were close that would be different. Wake Forest fans still remember Trent Strickland's blown dunk the year after Chris Paul left. Wake had the momentum on Duke when he made a steal, sprinted down the court and clanged the ball off the rim. It deflated the whole team, Duke came back to win and the rest of the Wake season tanked. (Yes, an overstatement of effect, but that moment became symbolic.)

DukieInBrasil
11-11-2008, 09:41 AM
Before the season got under way, i thought that we would be hard to beat if we got 15pts-12rebs from our non-Singler post players (Henderson is not a post player). Last night we got more than that, 20-13, and we won big despite "poor" guard play. If we get that level of production from those 5 guys when our guard play is on, we will be a very fun team.

davekay1971
11-11-2008, 09:51 AM
All in all, last night left me with more concerns than positives. Obviously our D was stout, and I appreciate that. We'll win a lot of games from solid D. Scheyer and Singler look good. Singler's missed shots are no concern for me - that's probably just early season form and those will be automatic in a month. Scheyer continues to smoothly give us what we need, every game. Thomas was impressive. He's bulked up, and he's playing confidence, and he looks ready to contribute on both ends of the court.

Some concerns:
Why is G playing so passively on offense? We need his scoring - not so much last night, but going forward. He's got to be a go-to guy for us.

We were sloppy with the ball. I'm sure that will be remedied, but it needs to be. A better team would have taken advantage of us.

Zoubek and Plumlee were nonentities. I haven't seen enough of Plumlee to make any judgements from one game, though you could see his athleticism just in the way he moves. Zoubs just plays soft. In a game of little guys, he should have established space and owned the lane. Instead he let other players dominate his lane. I feel for the guy with his injuries, and I agree with the poster who noted that he's probably getting called for fouls because the refs are looking for it, but there's no excuse for the way he just lets other guys take the ball from him on the boards. I think it's just mental - he hasn't made up his mind that he's going to own the lane.

All that being said, I can't wait for tonight. I want to see how our guys react to last night's game. I want to see G go off. I really want to see if Zoubek or Plumlee can establish a post presence for us.

Matches
11-11-2008, 10:09 AM
Eh - not our best performance, but we won by 31. No matter the opponent, it's hard to gripe too much about winning by 31. The team is a work in progress - it's reasonable to expect improvement as the season progresses.

I loved EW's dunk BTW - I am not a fan of showboating but did not consider that to be over the line. Let the kid have a little fun.

jv001
11-11-2008, 10:11 AM
Very good games for: Scheyer, Singler and Thomas. Nolan played ok, but sometimes had trouble running the offense. The defense was very good and I agree that the offense looked less than sharp. Too much dribbling and standing around. Jon looked good with the ball in his hands. Go Duke!

Constantstrain 81
11-11-2008, 10:13 AM
Not overwhelmingly awesome.

Singler played like a star. Missed some shots, got some turnovers - but stars do that sometimes. He has a swagger.

Scheyer will be rock-solid all year.

Nolan and Greg played fine. I think they have to learn to fit into their new roles. Nolan is now playing with the three best players on the team and actually has to defer to them as the point - get them involved. Offensively, that will be a learning process. Greg has to figure out where his shots come - he forced three that I remember. He is an offensive weapon when he is out there - he just has to better pick his spots and read where his teammates are for the rebound.

Pleasant surprises from Lance and Dave. Playing 3/4 type positions make a big difference for them.

The two bigs had a tough night. Defensively, they had to guard little guys with no help. Offensively, they had the advantage, but (most of the time) they were not "featured." So their advantage went for nothing. Add in Zoubek getting called for 2-3 fouls just because he was bigger and Plumlee playing in his first game and you get, ... well, what you got.

Marty was playing defense. He has learned. I mean, he has.

Olek will be exciting, he just does have a lot to learn. I think he will.

Gerald ...
No more potential talk, please. If you are going to be a superstar, then be one. Walk with a swagger. Demand the ball. Make the other team fear your presence. Or not. Just be a good team player and do the dirty work. I think he could be so much more, but he just isn't. This isn't a one game thing, mind you. Be a superstar.

What will make Gerald a superstar, besides the swagger and fear thingies, will be the ability to take the ball and create a deadly mid-range jumper. For him, that is the signature move. We know he can drive to the hoop and jump. However, he is not Lebron-sized, so that is not the bread and butter. We know that he can occasionally hit the three, but ... well that is enough of that - that is not the bread and butter. Superstar status for Gerald is the create your own shot mid-range 2 pointer. We need it. Only he can provide it. Did they fear him last night? No. They hardly noticed him. We hardly noticed him and we were watching closely.

Yes, run the offense. Yes, play team ball. Yes play suffocating defense. Yes, run the break. To win the national championship, you still need a superstar. Kyle and Jon are such, in their own way. We need Gerald to join them in his own way.

Okay, I got that off my chest. Go Duke!:)

DukeUsul
11-11-2008, 10:16 AM
Zoubek and Plumlee were nonentities. I haven't seen enough of Plumlee to make any judgements from one game, though you could see his athleticism just in the way he moves. Zoubs just plays soft. In a game of little guys, he should have established space and owned the lane. Instead he let other players dominate his lane. I feel for the guy with his injuries, and I agree with the poster who noted that he's probably getting called for fouls because the refs are looking for it, but there's no excuse for the way he just lets other guys take the ball from him on the boards. I think it's just mental - he hasn't made up his mind that he's going to own the lane.


I think Zoubs is caught between a rock and a hard place and isn't sure what to do. You say he needs to dominate the lane more. I agree. However, when he gets whistled for any kind of contact, that has to take its toll. He certainly does foul and those should be called. But sometimes he's just banging against a shorter guy - and when Zoub's elbow makes contact with a shorter guy's face and the guy goes down - well it looks bad and it gets called. If he's playing against someone his size and he makes the same move - the elbow goes into the chest and it doesn't get called. Getting whistled so frequently has to make him unsure of what to do. Play with more physicality to dominate the lane? Try to be more nimble and elegant to avoid contact? He's not really good at the latter but when he does the former he fouls out. If I were him I'd be getting pretty frustrated.

should_be_working
11-11-2008, 10:26 AM
Couple of things:

-As mentioned, the offense wasn't good. Way too much one on one, there were plenty of possessions where there wasn't a single pass - very "un-duke-like"

-Plum and Zoubek looked bad. Neither was all that effective on defense or offense. I think all 3 freshmen looked nervous. Would have liked to have seen more minutes from Plumlee, Czyz and some others, especially since we were up by 20 or more pretty much the whole game

-Too slow of a start. I remember the days when the game was basically over within the first minute or two because Duke came out firing on all cylinders. That explosiveness has seemed to be missing in the past couple of years.

-Even though Scheyer had a stellar first half, he didn't finish strong. Too much inconstancy between he and Henderson. Hopefully this will get better as the season progresses.

- With Nolen, i think you can get more offensive production and better defense, but he made some bad turnovers tonight. But there is always room for improvement.

-Finally, ESPN's new shot from the stands is incredibly annoying! I broke down, bought a big screen TV and its wonderful, but when they shrink the actual game footage by nearly half to show me a shot from the stands (which you can see just fine in a normal game shot), it makes me more angry than i would like. I really hope this isn't something they do all the time. Although there weren't any in-game sportscenter updates, which made me very happy.

Not horrible for the first game, but not that great either - too many flashes of last season. Can't wait to watch them again tonight.

riverside6
11-11-2008, 10:37 AM
Finally, ESPN's new shot from the stands is incredibly annoying! I broke down, bought a big screen TV and its wonderful, but when they shrink the actual game footage by nearly half to show me a shot from the stands (which you can see just fine in a normal game shot), it makes me more angry than i would like. I really hope this isn't something they do all the time. Although there weren't any in-game sportscenter updates, which made me very happy.

Amen to that. I'm crossing my fingers that they won't bring that back for tonight. It would've been one thing if they showed the shot for 30 seconds and then went back to normal, but they stayed with it much longer.

Kedsy
11-11-2008, 11:03 AM
Not horrible for the first game, but not that great either - too many flashes of last season. Can't wait to watch them again tonight.

Why is everyone so negative about last season? I thought it was a terrific year. It was a shame that several key players were sick during the first NCAA weekend; if that hadn't happened, I'm pretty sure Duke would have won two more games (WVa and Xavier) and gone to the Final Eight. And probably would have played UCLA tough in the Regional final.

And if that had been the case, would anyone be complaining about disturbing flashbacks? I don't think so.

should_be_working
11-11-2008, 11:20 AM
Why is everyone so negative about last season? I thought it was a terrific year. It was a shame that several key players were sick during the first NCAA weekend; if that hadn't happened, I'm pretty sure Duke would have won two more games (WVa and Xavier) and gone to the Final Eight. And probably would have played UCLA tough in the Regional final.

And if that had been the case, would anyone be complaining about disturbing flashbacks? I don't think so.

You're right, to an extent. I shouldn't have used the term "season". We did however in my eyes play poorly in the last month of the season, in the ACC tournament, and in the NCAA tournament. We had a great season, but we fell apart at the end. Unfortunately those are the last things i remember about last season, so that is what is fresh in my mind about last year's team. I don't like to use excuses like the flu, or whatever else, bottom line we didn't play well in the tournament. But, my apologies about my use of terms, I should have been more specific.

sagegrouse
11-11-2008, 11:26 AM
...but not everyone has said it. Now its my turn........

Actually, I agree with most of the posts I have read. I will make three different points.

(1) Jumbo's remark that Zoubek looked lost playing against smaller players was right on. Perhaps he will be a defensive stalwart against larger front lines. PC [as the school is known in SC] didn't even try to challenge him. As to developing Christian-Laettner-style footwork in the paint, I don't think that will ever happen.

(2) On offense, it looked like each of the Duke guards and wings really believed he could take his man one-on-one, but knew he wasn't supposed to. The resulting hesitation led to a herky-jerky offense that was a poor compromise between excellent team play and exciting one-on-one moves. I expect that this performance will be grist for the practice mill, and the coaching staff will get a lot of mileage out of the poor offensive play.

(3) Although I, like others, was dismayed at the play of MP1 and Zoubs, there is a bright spot in there. LT played really well and showed a lot of improvement. I would be happy to take that to the bank, even being disappointed that we can't get effective offensive play from our bigs.

sagegrouse

DoubleDuke Dad
11-11-2008, 11:51 AM
...but not everyone has said it. Now its my turn........

Actually, I agree with most of the posts I have read. I will make three different points.

(2) On offense, it looked like each of the Duke guards and wings really believed he could take his man one-on-one, but knew he wasn't supposed to. The resulting hesitation led to a herky-jerky offense that was a poor compromise between excellent team play and exciting one-on-one moves. I expect that this performance will be grist for the practice mill, and the coaching staff will get a lot of mileage out of the poor offensive play.

sagegrouse

I believe that Presbyterian was playing a match-up zone the whole game that seemed to disrupt Dukeís offensive flow. The ball movement was poor and anytime the ball went into the post the Duke player was surrounded by three players.

Jumbo
11-11-2008, 12:20 PM
I was not happy to see Singler spending some time playing freaking CENTER. This occurred toward the end of the first half...may have happened at other times as well.

Uh, why? And why so angry? Duke was playing against a tiny team. Is there something wrong with playing him next to McClure for little while? Or with four guards? It's not like he was getting roughed up burly post players, and in a lot of games, he'll have a huge matchup advantage at the 5.

COYS
11-11-2008, 12:35 PM
Uh, why? And why so angry? Duke was playing against a tiny team. Is there something wrong with playing him next to McClure for little while? Or with four guards? It's not like he was getting roughed up burly post players, and in a lot of games, he'll have a huge matchup advantage at the 5.

Definitely agree on this one. The coaching staff has stated repeatedly that they are dedicated to preventing Singler from wearing down against big, physical post players. However, there is nothing wrong with using a small lineup from time to time, especially when it's Singler who is the big, physical post player beating up on a little guy. Even in games when there is a big burly post player (like, say last February in Chapel Hill), playing Singler at the 5 to exploit an opposing player's (such as hansblow's) defensive limitations is also a good move. We'll see Singler playing the 5 every single game this season, most likely. The issue is not keeping Singler from ever playing the 5, it's more about limiting his minutes there and making Zoubs, Miles et. al. the primary defenders at the 5 spot.

1Devil
11-11-2008, 12:40 PM
It was a shame that several key players were sick during the first NCAA weekend...

No, that was pretty much debunked.

1Devil
11-11-2008, 12:44 PM
Definitely agree on this one. The coaching staff has stated repeatedly that they are dedicated to preventing Singler from wearing down against big, physical post players. However, there is nothing wrong with using a small lineup from time to time, especially when it's Singler who is the big, physical post player beating up on a little guy. Even in games when there is a big burly post player (like, say last February in Chapel Hill), playing Singler at the 5 to exploit an opposing player's (such as hansblow's) defensive limitations is also a good move. We'll see Singler playing the 5 every single game this season, most likely. The issue is not keeping Singler from ever playing the 5, it's more about limiting his minutes there and making Zoubs, Miles et. al. the primary defenders at the 5 spot.

When we are playing Presbyterian, we should play the lineup we want. We do not need to adjust to who they have on the court. We make them adjust to who we have on the court. Plumlee and Zoubek's ineffectiveness caused us to adjust (I don't think we needed to, but we did). Is it possible that K simply wanted to have Singler at center for a while? I guess so, but I doubt it.

Cavlaw
11-11-2008, 01:05 PM
When we are playing Presbyterian, we should play the lineup we want. We do not need to adjust to who they have on the court. We make them adjust to who we have on the court. Plumlee and Zoubek's ineffectiveness caused us to adjust (I don't think we needed to, but we did). Is it possible that K simply wanted to have Singler at center for a while? I guess so, but I doubt it.
Isn't who adjusts to who something of a chicken and egg question? When something is working, the other team adjusts to you. When it isn't (or could be working better), you adjust to them.

On a whole other level - when you've playing a game that's basically a win in hand, you have the freedom to experiment a little more, too.

Jumbo
11-11-2008, 01:16 PM
When we are playing Presbyterian, we should play the lineup we want. We do not need to adjust to who they have on the court. We make them adjust to who we have on the court. Plumlee and Zoubek's ineffectiveness caused us to adjust (I don't think we needed to, but we did). Is it possible that K simply wanted to have Singler at center for a while? I guess so, but I doubt it.

Why on Earth would you "doubt it?" K was experimenting with lineups all night. Go to my charting thread and see how many different combos he used. This game was about learning and getting ready to play better team. Of course he wanted to see how a couple of smaller lineups would perform.

roywhite
11-11-2008, 01:26 PM
Why on Earth would you "doubt it?" K was experimenting with lineups all night. Go to my charting thread and see how many different combos he used. This game was about learning and getting ready to play better team. Of course he wanted to see how a couple of smaller lineups would perform.

I've got a feeling that "definition of roles" and "lineup combinations" will be main themes extending through Phase 1 and into Phase 2.

My early take is that, despite the number of returning players, it's a whole new puzzle for the coaches to fit together.

ncexnyc
11-11-2008, 01:31 PM
I finally got a chance to watch the game in the wee hours of this morning, thank goodness for DVRs.

I am concerned about two areas:
1. Turnovers
2. 3 pt. shooting

I'm not sure if the turnovers are due to the various combinations, which are being put on the floor, but I hope we nip this in the bud before this becomes a habit during the season.

Does anyone have statistics for 3 pt shooting from other college teams? Is it just us or is it everyone? If it's everyone, then we can assume it's the new line and that should eventually work itself out, if it's not then we might have something to be concerned about.

Loved Kyle's game. He definitely is stronger and appears very confident. It definitely looked like HIS team last night.

Jon also had a very nice game. He does it all and should have a very nice year.

Nolan looked fast. Impressive on the ball defense and he can take people off the dribble. If he can get the turnovers under control, he will be a big plus for the team at PG.

Thomas looked awesome. I was shocked at how well he played. He's always brought alot of energy, but never seemed to be able to convert offensively. Hopefully we will get more of the same in future games.

Miles definitely has the skill set to be a very good big man. He seems confident and as most of us have realized, anything we can get out of the post is a bonus. By the end of the season he will be our bonafide starting center.

Henderson had a fairly quiet game. Despite the complaints of a number of board members, I find nothing wrong with what he did last night. He did make a couple of nice drives to the hoop and seemed to take his man when he wanted to, at will. I believe his lack of major production last night was more about the plays that were set-up and the fact that Jon and Kyle were exerting themselves offensively. Let's remember, there is only one basketball on the court.

Greg played with his usual intensity, but doesn't appear to be the sixth man that Jon was last year. It's early and it will take time for him to adjust to his new role. For all I know Coach K may very well just want him to run the point and let others be the scorers, if that's the case comparing Greg to Jon isn't a fair.

Brian was very disappointing! He seems to be under a great deal of self imposed pressure. The staff definitely needs to sit down with him and assure him that he will get his playing time and that it doesn't matter who starts.

David was Mr Energy as usual. Still don't see much playing time coming his way.

Marty was Marty and he's another player who won't see much PT.

Olek showed why so many people are hyped about him. If he learns the system he can be a contributor.

Email definitely has game and will be a contributor if he can continue to learn what the staff wants him to do.

A less than impressive win, but the true testament to a team is if they learn from their mistakes. We'll see what we've got after tonight's upcoming game.

1Devil
11-11-2008, 01:41 PM
Why on Earth would you "doubt it?" K was experimenting with lineups all night. Go to my charting thread and see how many different combos he used. This game was about learning and getting ready to play better team. Of course he wanted to see how a couple of smaller lineups would perform.

I doubt it because that lineup will be a postseason loser.

Jumbo
11-11-2008, 01:43 PM
I doubt it because that lineup will be a postseason loser.

You doubt K wanted to see what a couple of smaller lineups looked like because it is destined to fail in the postseason? Huh???

diveonthefloor
11-11-2008, 01:50 PM
Please y'all, let's compliment Elliot rather than get on his case.

He played hard all night; K even had him guarding the point for quite a while which I think he did quite well!

He had missed on a couple of shots last night. After he created a steal he realized he was about to score his first two career college points. He was having fun, showing emotion, and wanted to give something to the crazies.
He was not showboating and not "rubbing it in" to the Blue Hose.

BTW, I have known Elliot for 3 years now....he is a terrific kid, excellent student, and great role model.

1Devil
11-11-2008, 02:19 PM
You doubt K wanted to see what a couple of smaller lineups looked like because it is destined to fail in the postseason? Huh???

The small lineup is not one we go to proactively. It's one we go to reactively, in order to get our best players on the floor. However, this is a flawed lineup that can be exploited by good teams. My opinion is we need to get out of this negative pattern. We need to spend this early part of the season working on the bigger lineups.

COYS
11-11-2008, 02:29 PM
When we are playing Presbyterian, we should play the lineup we want. We do not need to adjust to who they have on the court. We make them adjust to who we have on the court. Plumlee and Zoubek's ineffectiveness caused us to adjust (I don't think we needed to, but we did). Is it possible that K simply wanted to have Singler at center for a while? I guess so, but I doubt it.

I'm fairly confident, quite frankly, that K likes going small and chose to do this. As long as the defensive matchups don't kill us, I have absolutely no problem seeing Singler and four guards or Singler, McClure and three guards from time to time. We can run all over the other team and play to our perimeter strengths. Foul trouble may have contributed to K's decision to use this lineup, but I think that we will see a lineup like this every game and it will be a good thing, not a bad thing.

COYS
11-11-2008, 02:41 PM
I doubt it because that lineup will be a postseason loser.


Remember that when we lost to WVU last year, we didn't lose because we went small and quick . . . we lost because WVU went smaller and quicker.

By your logic, we should never ever even try a lineup where Singler plays the 5. No matter if it gives our team an advantage or plays to our strengths. For our team to be successful, we need to be capable of fielding a lineup with Kyle at the 4 for large portions of games. However, I guarantee that there will be games in the postseason and in the regular season in which Kyle plays 15 or minutes at the 5 and we win because of his play there, whether it's taking advantages of mismatches on offense or pressing a team into submission on defense.

1Devil
11-11-2008, 02:49 PM
Remember that when we lost to WVU last year, we didn't lose because we went small and quick . . . we lost because WVU went smaller and quicker.

By your logic, we should never ever even try a lineup where Singler plays the 5. No matter if it gives our team an advantage or plays to our strengths. For our team to be successful, we need to be capable of fielding a lineup with Kyle at the 4 for large portions of games. However, I guarantee that there will be games in the postseason and in the regular season in which Kyle plays 15 or minutes at the 5 and we win because of his play there, whether it's taking advantages of mismatches on offense or pressing a team into submission on defense.

I'd be in favor of going to the small lineup if it seemed we were doing it to gain an advantage rather than hide a weakness.

Jumbo
11-11-2008, 03:03 PM
The small lineup is not one we go to proactively. It's one we go to reactively, in order to get our best players on the floor. However, this is a flawed lineup that can be exploited by good teams. My opinion is we need to get out of this negative pattern. We need to spend this early part of the season working on the bigger lineups.

Going to a small lineup "in order to get our best players on the floor" is the definition of proactive, not reactive.

We should look for every way to exploit mismatches. Sometimes that will mean going big, other times small. Small times it will mean putting more shooters on the floor, other times it will mean putting more slashers out there. And so forth.

devilish
11-11-2008, 03:40 PM
I believe that Presbyterian was playing a match-up zone the whole game that seemed to disrupt Dukeís offensive flow. The ball movement was poor and anytime the ball went into the post the Duke player was surrounded by three players.

Yes, they were. I saw PC play a zone against State last year, but it was more of a traditional 2-3, pack-it-in style. Last night the zone seemed like a half-court zone press. It definately had a lot to do with Duke's turnovers. If the Hose had shot a little better, like a lot of teams do when they come to Cameron for the first time, it would have been a much closer game.

tarasoccer04
11-11-2008, 04:33 PM
How sweet was Elliot's 360 dunk?

It was a stupid play which, along with clearly not knowing where he is supposed to be on many of the plays, demonstrated his lack of maturity.

RockyMtDevil
11-11-2008, 04:46 PM
Obviously the 3 point line has changed, any chance during regular games we only have the men's line on the court, or are we stuck with the two lines?

CLT Devil
11-11-2008, 05:13 PM
Obviously the 3 point line has changed, any chance during regular games we only have the men's line on the court, or are we stuck with the two lines?

The Women's line has not changed, so yes, we are stuck with two lines.

-jk
11-11-2008, 05:33 PM
I'm not in a position to dig up the link just now, but I seem to recall that the rules require both lines, regardless of whether the women play on the court.

-jk

pfrduke
11-11-2008, 06:53 PM
I'm not in a position to dig up the link just now, but I seem to recall that the rules require both lines, regardless of whether the women play on the court.

-jk

I'm certainly not going to disagree with your statement of what the rule is, since I haven't read it. If that is, in fact, the rule, it makes precisely zero sense to me. What possible reason could the NCAA have for forcing teams to keep a line on the court that is 100% meaningless in the game?

phaedrus
11-11-2008, 07:53 PM
I'm certainly not going to disagree with your statement of what the rule is, since I haven't read it. If that is, in fact, the rule, it makes precisely zero sense to me. What possible reason could the NCAA have for forcing teams to keep a line on the court that is 100% meaningless in the game?

Because the women play on the same court. The line is painted on there... you can't just add or remove it before and after every men's and women's game.

pfrduke
11-11-2008, 11:35 PM
Because the women play on the same court. The line is painted on there... you can't just add or remove it before and after every men's and women's game.

I will direct your attention to -jk's post above, which stated:


I seem to recall that the rules require both lines, regardless of whether the women play on the court.

I get why they can't take it off in Cameron. In a stadium where no woman's team plays, however, I fail to see why they would continue to require the inside line.