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NYC Duke Fan
11-09-2008, 05:10 AM
Realistically do you think that Cutcliffe could bring Duke football up to the same level that Butch Davis has brought UNC football up to, or is it just wishful thinking ?

Aren't most of the players starting at UNC recruited by the prior coach or are these Davis' recruits ?

If things keep going in the same direction as this year, I could see UNC playing for a national championship in the BCS Bowl in a few years.

RelativeWays
11-09-2008, 07:00 AM
Cutcliffe can make a Duke a good team, and by that I mean an 8-4 or 9-3 type team (I'll gladly take that) but Duke isn't in the position to become a national power anytime soon. A lot of things need to be upgraded before we could make such a move. UNC is a lot closer to that point and Butch Davis has helmed a national power before.

sandinmyshoes
11-09-2008, 09:39 AM
I think coach Cut can bring us up to the point UNC is right now in terms of wins and losses. We aren't that far behind them at this time. We can beat them this year if we do not turn the ball over.

That said, we will probably have a difficult time reaching the level UNC might well reach in a couple of years. Especially with the kind of consistency Davis might produce. But for right now, I'll take being in the neighborhood.

DevilWolf
11-09-2008, 10:12 AM
Absolutely. First of all, Bunting had some really good recruiting classes, and their classes ALWAYS ranked ahead of Duke's. Recruiting was never really Bunting's problem. Like Roof and Franks, the actual coaching left a lot to be desired. On our side, Roof did bring in some good players, but never had the depth that UNC had, most importantly among the offensive line.

Second, don't forget what happened last year at UNC. They were 4-8. The previous year they were 3-9 under Bunting.

The difference that Cutcliffe has made in year 1 is much greater than what Davis did in year 1. I don't think that Duke next year will be as different as UNC has been in Davis' second year, but over the long term ... absolutely Cutcliffe is able to get us to be a 9 win football team.

Diddy
11-09-2008, 10:59 AM
UNC under Davis has way too many advantages.

Primarily the reason is recruiting. Cut can sell Duke as a beautiful campus with improving facilities and a new commitment to winning on the field. Off the field Duke sports a beutiful campus with a good social scene and a top rate education.

UNC boasts a beautiful campus, a new committment to winning, and fantastic (and improving) facilities. Off the field UNC has a great nightlife (Franklin St) a beautiful campus, and a very solid reputation academically, especially compared to other state schools.

Cut was the OC who built an offense on a team that won the National Championship. He had already left for Miss when the actual game was played. Davis built a team that won one NC, and should've won another but for a bogus Interference call. So that is a wash, I hope. Most recruits might look at Davis as more responsible for a team winning the NC. Especially since UT's title was built on a sterling Defense and a capable O.

Also, Davis was a HC in the NFL. He failed, but so have a lot of superstar College coaches. Being mentioned with Saban and Carroll is no small feat. Recruits who want to play on Sunday put a lot of stock in a guy who has coached at that level.

Unfortunately, Davis has one monster advantage. Duke has no natural recruiting ground. Duke will have to recruit almost nationally to be competitive. It is certainly possible, as many have proven. Many athletes in North Carolina dislike Duke, both for childhood fan reasons, and because Duke has been a punchline for so long. There is still a negative connotation to going to Duke. It is like, "weren't you good enough to go anywhere else?"

Davis has no such albatross arround his neck. Most youngsters in North Carolina are UNC fans, if only for Basketball reasons. Wake has a solid contingency in Winston, and NCSU has a cadre of fans. But the vast majority of HS atletes in NC do not actively hate UNC. And NC has great HS football. Our players are continuously poached by Tenn, UGA, GT, UVA, VT, and others. If Butch could lock down the stars in NC, he can field a top 15 team. If he secures a few national stars, then he has a top 7 team. And with GT running a gimmick O, Tenn down, and UGA continuously under achieving, locking down the borders is getting easier.

Duke can aspire to WFU's recent success. We can be a threat within the conference that every team (saving only the very elite) must take seriously. We can go to bowl games more often than not. I will be happy with this.

Under Davis, UNC can aspire to be a national power. They can be a threat to win the NC every year.

UNC's upside is simply greater. They have natural recruiting territory, easier (but still good) academics, probably a better night life, and vastly superior facilities.

My real fear is that a national power over in Chapel Hill will be a drag on Duke's recruiting and the enthusiasm of her fans. It might be hard to get up for a Duke team making a run at a low level bowl as UNC is making its annual run at the NC. And FB recruits in the state might completely disregard Duke if UNC offered.

OldPhiKap
11-09-2008, 11:40 AM
Cutcliffe said that he came here to win championships. And that he hoped people laugh when they hear that, because he intends to use that as motivation.

I would be pleased as punch if Cut were able to get us to semi-consistent bowl eligibility. But I'm not selling him short, either. Duke is a national brand that, with a little success, can recruit anywhere in the country. Cut has a staff that has worked well with him over the years. He knows what it takes to be a major contender.

I refuse to believe that we are destined to be inferior to the Heels "just because." GTHC, and Go Coach Cut!!!

Devil in the Blue Dress
11-09-2008, 11:48 AM
So many of the posts following the loss to State, as well as on some other threads, don't seem to take into account the recruiting which Coach Cutcliffe and the staff have accomplished so far..... faster, bigger players on the way.

For whatever it's worth, Coach Cutcliffe has recruited pretty well in NC so far. He's emphasized that geography is the most important factor in recruiting (recruit's proximity to the school recruiting him). The man has hit the ground running and gotten some great commitments for the near future.

The first goal of improving the football program has to be to become competitive. It's an uphill process, but it can be done. As for how does Coach Cutcliffe compare to Butch Davis? It's too early to do more than speculate. Which one would I rather be the coach at Duke? We've got him on board right now.

Devil in the Blue Dress
11-09-2008, 11:50 AM
Cutcliffe said that he came here to win championships. And that he hoped people laugh when they hear that, because he intends to use that as motivation.

I would be pleased as punch if Cut were able to get us to semi-consistent bowl eligibility. But I'm not selling him short, either. Duke is a national brand that, with a little success, can recruit anywhere in the country. Cut has a staff that has worked well with him over the years. He knows what it takes to be a major contender.

I refuse to believe that we are destined to be inferior to the Heels "just because." GTHC, and Go Coach Cut!!!

Amen to that!

Devilsfan
11-09-2008, 01:22 PM
Yes!! Cut is an amzing HC IMO. He has done more in a short period of time than I ever thought was possible. Our team is respectable. His task is extremely difacult in that we are a team with players that are required to have three digit IQs.

devildeac
11-09-2008, 02:25 PM
I think coach Cut can bring us up to the point UNC is right now in terms of wins and losses. We aren't that far behind them at this time. We can beat them this year if we do not turn the ball over.

That said, we will probably have a difficult time reaching the level UNC might well reach in a couple of years. Especially with the kind of consistency Davis might produce. But for right now, I'll take being in the neighborhood.

I'll respond to this here but it could just as easily be in the Duke-ncsu game thread. We can beat them but it will take a LOT more than just not turning the ball over. We had zero yesterday and just one major special teams mistake and still lost to a state team that is certainly inferior to unc. We simply did not make a lot of good, standard FB plays yesterday like missing tackles and being unable to knock away a number of passes that went for long yardage when we had a reasonable chance to intercept or break up the play. We also failed on a number of offense efforts to run the routes required for 1st down yardages or open up a reaonable hole in the OL to gain a few yards in 1st and goal situations (or throw the ball instead as several other folks have mentioned already). I look at unc now as probably having the size/speed/talent as GT (better, considering the 28-7 pasting yesterday) and miami, both teams we had significant trouble with. I know it's a rivalry game but I suspect we'll be significant underdogs come 11/29. An upset would not surprise me but a 3 TD (or more) loss wouldn't either.

dukegirlinsc
11-09-2008, 02:29 PM
It can absolutely happen!:D Like others replied previously, UNC has some major recruiting advantages, but I believe Duke will gain some advantages as they continue to improve on the field.

Scorp4me
11-10-2008, 08:14 AM
The credit you guys are giving Bunting and Carolina is quite frankly disgusting. I see no power house over there and expect them to be competent, but certainly no National Champion Contender in the coming years. Quite frankly I don't see that much of a disimilar outlook for Duke.

I'll disagree that it would have taken alot more to beat State yesterday. Someone mentioned that we had no turn overs, but we did. Twice we turned the ball over on 4th down inside the 10 if I recall. That's as good as a fumble and as bad a turnover as you can make. Second, you hit the nail on the head with not being able to break up passes. For some time now our secondary has been outran by the opposing teams receivers. Lately they've been out jumped by them. And against State they were simply out fought by them. I absolutely hate 3rd and long situations for Duke's opponents cause it usually means a long gain and a first down. Until Duke gets their secondary taken care of we won't be able to hold teams back.

There's certainly other areas to improve make no doubt. But I see a huge imporovement when that is taken care of and had it been taken care of against State we might have won even without the two touchdowns we missed on.

killerleft
11-10-2008, 08:30 AM
Who would have thought that through nine games of his first season, Coach Cutcliffe could have done so well that somebody could actually ASK such a question?

I am optimistic that we can recruit the players to win at a very high level. No ceiling for me.

Devil in the Blue Dress
11-10-2008, 09:23 AM
Who would have thought that through nine games of his first season, Coach Cutcliffe could have done so well that somebody could actually ASK such a question?

I am optimistic that we can recruit the players to win at a very high level. No ceiling for me.

I like the way you think! Our expectations have been raised this season as well they should be..... but the season's not over. Some may think they can predict the outcome of the remaining games. Each game offers another opportunity to continue to improve. I look forward to seeing what the team can do.

GO DUKE! Beat Clemson!

Diddy
11-10-2008, 11:11 AM
The credit you guys are giving Bunting and Carolina is quite frankly disgusting. I see no power house over there and expect them to be competent, but certainly no National Champion Contender in the coming years. Quite frankly I don't see that much of a disimilar outlook for Duke.

I'll disagree that it would have taken alot more to beat State yesterday. Someone mentioned that we had no turn overs, but we did. Twice we turned the ball over on 4th down inside the 10 if I recall. That's as good as a fumble and as bad a turnover as you can make. Second, you hit the nail on the head with not being able to break up passes. For some time now our secondary has been outran by the opposing teams receivers. Lately they've been out jumped by them. And against State they were simply out fought by them. I absolutely hate 3rd and long situations for Duke's opponents cause it usually means a long gain and a first down. Until Duke gets their secondary taken care of we won't be able to hold teams back.

There's certainly other areas to improve make no doubt. But I see a huge imporovement when that is taken care of and had it been taken care of against State we might have won even without the two touchdowns we missed on.

Bunting hasn't been at UNC for a couple of Years. Butch Davis, the architect of the Miami Resurgance of the early oughts, is at UNC. He is recruiting up a storm. Each year's class has been better than the previous class. Some pundits are starting to say that UNC will be the conference favorite next year. UNC will absolutely be a national caliber team within 2-3 years or sooner, so long as Davis stays.

That is not a projection, or an oppinion, or a guess. It is a fact. The ACC is a BCS conference. If you can win the ACC, and go undefeated, you have a chance to play for the NC. Next year, the best three teams in the ACC will be FSU, Miami, and UNC. None of the three are perfect, but each has great potential. Should UNC go undefeated, which they are certainly capable of, they would have a great shot at the NC game.

This happens a lot on this board. Posters routinely dismiss anything that they don't want to believe. It lessens the credibility of the discussions.

Is Duke improving? Yes. By leaps and bounds. But we were truly awful to begin with. Truly AWFUL. The program was a complete joke at all levels of the sport. Improving over that is not super difficult. Cut is doing a good job, but we have to put our program into perpective. At his last HC job, he did great while he had Eli Manning. Once Eli left Ole Miss, Cut's next team took a big step back and he was fired. Many bemoaned his firing, but most of his best players from that dissappointing team were graduating or leaving the program, and the recruits replacing them were bad. The next year the team nosedived because the talent was so far below SEC standards.

UNC was bad, but they underachieved under the previous few coaches. They hired one of the best coaches in the business. His last College HC job was to build one of the more dominant college teams in recent memory. They lost 1 game in two years, and they were hosed on an awful call in that NC game. UNC is going to be fantastic. Soon.

Deal with it.

billybreen
11-10-2008, 11:20 AM
What is the likelihood that if Davis and Cutcliffe continue their strong performances they'll still be at UNC and Duke in five years, respectively? Is there any reason to believe that either school can hold onto national caliber coaching talent (assuming that's what we have) indefinitely?

killerleft
11-10-2008, 02:16 PM
What is the likelihood that if Davis and Cutcliffe continue their strong performances they'll still be at UNC and Duke in five years, respectively? Is there any reason to believe that either school can hold onto national caliber coaching talent (assuming that's what we have) indefinitely?

The answer might be yes. Davis is 58, Cutcliffe 54. Their ages alone might be a reason to stay. And David Cutcliffe, I believe, is going about the business of proving that his coaching staff can make Duke a proven winner.

David Cutcliffe was denied the chance to make Ole Miss into a big-time football school. He virtually assembled the same staff that Ole Miss wanted him to fire just to keep his job. He (and they) have something to prove.

billybreen
11-10-2008, 02:22 PM
The answer might be yes. Davis is 58, Cutcliffe 54. Their ages alone might be a reason to stay. And David Cutcliffe, I believe, is going about the business of proving that his coaching staff can make Duke a proven winner.

David Cutcliffe was denied the chance to make Ole Miss into a big-time football school. He virtually assembled the same staff that Ole Miss wanted him to fire just to keep his job. He (and they) have something to prove.

Yeah, so the answer I was fishing for was 'Cutcliffe is making Duke his life's work' and 'Davis will leave for the first major national opportunity.' You are half way there. ;)

killerleft
11-10-2008, 03:01 PM
Yeah, so the answer I was fishing for was 'Cutcliffe is making Duke his life's work' and 'Davis will leave for the first major national opportunity.' You are half way there. ;)

I really hope somebody beams Butchie outta there! Matt Doherty would make a fine football coach!