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NYC Duke Fan
11-03-2008, 02:30 AM
There is no question that UNC-Duke is the best basketball rivalry in all college sports. Some might say that it is the best rivalry in all of sports, although Red Sox- Yankees, Auburn-Alabama ( in football) , Army-Navy ( in football) , Michigan-Ohio State , Clemson- USC, would have supporters.

I cannot come up with a 2nd basketball rivalry that has anywhere near the intensity of UNC-Duke.

I was thinking Kansas-Missouri, Kentucky- Indiana, Syracuse- UConn, but none of them come close. Any suggestions ?

riverside6
11-03-2008, 06:15 AM
Louisville - Kentucky

Kdogg
11-03-2008, 06:42 AM
Arizona-ASU - but not in a good way.

Indoor66
11-03-2008, 07:30 AM
Arizona-ASU - but not in a good way.


Louisville - Kentucky

I would disagree with both ↑as each is based only on geography and has no conference standing implication. Duke - UNC is very often for a lot of marbles and thus makes it totally unique. The closest I can think of are UCLA - USC and Michigan - Michigan State, though they both have far less national implication.

Wander
11-03-2008, 08:28 AM
In basketball, Kentucky-Louisville is probably second place, and it's still two or three steps behind Duke-UNC. You can mention Xavier-Cincy and the Big 5 too, but that's still not at the same level.

I'll go a step further and say that Alabama-Auburn and Michigan-OSU are the only rivalries that can compete with Duke-UNC in any sport on any level.

jimsumner
11-03-2008, 09:10 AM
"I'll go a step further and say that Alabama-Auburn and Michigan-OSU are the only rivalries that can compete with Duke-UNC in any sport on any level."

In the Pacific Northwest the Oregon-Oregon State rivalry is referred to as the Civil War and that's without any post-modern irony.

And let me add Army-Navy.

LetItBD08
11-03-2008, 09:15 AM
I'm not completely sold on the Louisville-Kentucky rivalry. Between 1922 and 1983 they only played 3 times! Also looking at the numbers from recent years, there are a good amount of lopsided victories. Not to mention in four of their last nine games spanning essentially the last decade, neither team was ranked. Granted there were a couple good games, but I don't think that merits second best rivalry in college basketball. I can't think of a good second best rivalry in college basketball today though. Duke vs. anyone else? Carolina vs. anyone else?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kentucky-Louisville_rivalry#Basketball

Wander
11-03-2008, 09:20 AM
And let me add Army-Navy.

Thought about that, but current national relevance in the sport is important to me. If you don't consider quality of the teams themselves a big factor, then I agree.

devilish
11-03-2008, 09:20 AM
That's the second best in this conference, at least.

phaedrus
11-03-2008, 09:29 AM
In basketball, Kentucky-Louisville is probably second place, and it's still two or three steps behind Duke-UNC.

It's hard to take this one too seriously when fans of one of the schools (UK) harbor more enmity for an unnamed out-of-state school.

riverside6
11-03-2008, 10:38 AM
In state Kentucky-Louisville is as heated as Duke-UNC, but it certainly doesn't carry the national attention.

COYS
11-03-2008, 10:45 AM
"I'll go a step further and say that Alabama-Auburn and Michigan-OSU are the only rivalries that can compete with Duke-UNC in any sport on any level."

In the Pacific Northwest the Oregon-Oregon State rivalry is referred to as the Civil War and that's without any post-modern irony.

And let me add Army-Navy.

I love the UNC/Duke rivalry, obviously, but I think we have to limit our sports to American professional and college sports. If we expand it to any sport at any level, it means we have to consider soccer rivalries (Boca Juniors and River Plate in Argentina may have more mutual hatred on a large scale than anything else on the planet, Brazil and Argentina, "El Classico" between Real Madrid and Barcalona . . . etc). That being said, of the American sports I actually pick Duke/UNC and Auburn/Alabama as the top two because of proximity. Auburn and Alabama grads work in the same office buildings, eat at the same restaurants, take their kids to the same rec football leagues . . . and everyone in the state is on one side or the other. The programs have been either pretty good or really good for large parts of many decades. I know the same can be said for Michigan/Ohio State in terms of quality of the programs, but there's something about going to work the next day knowing that you're going to be ragged by co-workers for the next 364 days after your team loses . . .

jimsumner
11-03-2008, 10:58 AM
"I know the same can be said for Michigan/Ohio State in terms of quality of the programs, but there's something about going to work the next day knowing that you're going to be ragged by co-workers for the next 364 days after your team loses . . ."

Agreed. But you can say the same thing about Clemson-South Carolina, Florida-Florida State, Oregon-Oregon State, Virginia-Virginia Tech, Indiana-Purdue, Washington-Washington State, Mississippi-Mississipi State, et. al.

I've always thought there was some special tension when a state has a state-supported, liberal arts school, e.g. UNC, UVA, South Carolina, and a state-supported Morrill Land-Grant school like NCSU, VT, or Clemson. You can have some real cultural divisions, some real animosities here.

On a national level Alabama-Auburn might be the best example, because the two schools traditionally have football programs that range from good to great, with a healthy dose of rules?-what rules? throw in. But on the local level, this shows up in a lot places.

To veer off course a bit, I've always wondered what it would be like to live in a state that has one dominant university, Nebraska or Minnesota for example. Out-of-state rivals to be sure. But in-state, everybody rooting for the same school. Having lived so long with our in-state rivalries, it seems like this would be boring but what do I know?

rsvman
11-03-2008, 11:08 AM
Nationally, there's probably nothing that compares.

But regionally, there are lots of heated rivalries. Participants and fans in those rivalries feel pretty much the same way about their rivalries as we do about Duke-UNC, and the lack of national attention doesn't put a damper on the rivalries at all.

Somebody already mentioned Oregon-Oregon St. I'd like to say that BYU-Utah is pretty much the same as Duke-UNC for the people involved (although obviously not as much is at stake nationally). There are probably dozens of others that could only be understood by attending one of the universities involved, or by growing up in the areas involved. Pitt-West Virginia is pretty big, too.

should_be_working
11-03-2008, 11:20 AM
I live in Northern Kentucky, my husband is a Louisville fan (more like a rick pitino fan) and living in the state, I'm not so sure about the UK-Louisville rivalry being the second best. In fact I would venture to say that a UK fan would rather beat a Duke team any day of the week over a Louisville team - not sure that really constitutes a rivalry, rather just an intense hatred. Plus there can be an argument for Indiana being a big rivalry against UK as well.

I also live closer to Cincinnati, and the Xavier/UC game is very much a big deal to the city, but not so much on a national level. Sad it doesn't get the exposure it deserves.

Devil in the Blue Dress
11-03-2008, 11:25 AM
"I know the same can be said for Michigan/Ohio State in terms of quality of the programs, but there's something about going to work the next day knowing that you're going to be ragged by co-workers for the next 364 days after your team loses . . ."

Agreed. But you can say the same thing about Clemson-South Carolina, Florida-Florida State, Oregon-Oregon State, Virginia-Virginia Tech, Indiana-Purdue, Washington-Washington State, Mississippi-Mississipi State, et. al.

I've always thought there was some special tension when a state has a state-supported, liberal arts school, e.g. UNC, UVA, South Carolina, and a state-supported Morrill Land-Grant school like NCSU, VT, or Clemson. You can have some real cultural divisions, some real animosities here.

On a national level Alabama-Auburn might be the best example, because the two schools traditionally have football programs that range from good to great, with a healthy dose of rules?-what rules? throw in. But on the local level, this shows up in a lot places.

To veer off course a bit, I've always wondered what it would be like to live in a state that has one dominant university, Nebraska or Minnesota for example. Out-of-state rivals to be sure. But in-state, everybody rooting for the same school. Having lived so long with our in-state rivalries, it seems like this would be boring but what do I know?
One dominant (state) university: How about LSU? Any serious in-state rivalries?

jimsumner
11-03-2008, 11:29 AM
In those years when Tulane is up and LSU is down, they have a rivalry. Doesn't happen ofen.

Of course, the best party-school rivalry is something else.

rsvman
11-03-2008, 11:51 AM
In those years when Tulane is up and LSU is down, they have a rivalry. Doesn't happen ofen.

Of course, the best party-school rivalry is something else.
In the party-school category, Tulane doesn't even enter into the discussion with LSU. That wouldn't even be close. Like the Lakers against your high school basketball team.

jimsumner
11-03-2008, 12:04 PM
For all of its historical mediocrity on the gridiron, Tulane is still a D-1A (BCS) football program and does have its in-state fan base. I was thinking more about states like Nebraska, where one school has something close to an absolute monoploy on the in-state fan base.

-jk
11-03-2008, 12:07 PM
Of all the rivalries out there, it was Duke-UNC that launched ESPN 2.

-jk

Wags
11-03-2008, 12:08 PM
Duke vs Maryland

davekay1971
11-03-2008, 12:18 PM
Sorry, but I just don't think there's a college basketball rivalry out there that's in the same universe as Duke-UNC. Here are the things that make Duke-UNC what it is (an unbiased list):

1) Proximity of the schools
2) They play in the same conference
3) The two schools have been dominant in the conference for a long time
4) The two schools have been factors in the national championship picture for a long time
5) The two schools have both been consistently relevant (in conference and nationally) for decades
6) UNC is full of bitter kids who couldn't make it into Duke
7) Our blue is better than theirs
8) Their women want us...their men want to be us.
9) Devils eat Rams after roasting them over a fiery pit

No school rivalry can claim all of that. Other rivalries, while fierce, tend to come and go, or to be relatively one-sided. UCLA-USC, Georgetown-Syracuse, Louisville-KY, etc...all may be a great rivalry for a few years, or for a decade, but then they sputter for awhile.

hurleyfor3
11-03-2008, 12:38 PM
Syracuse/Georgetown was huge in the 1980s. I think the fact that it wasn't based on geography helped spur the rise of the Big East.

MADevil30
11-03-2008, 01:02 PM
Syracuse/Georgetown was huge in the 1980s. I think the fact that it wasn't based on geography helped spur the rise of the Big East.

As a lot of people have pointed out Duke-UNC is by far in its own category nationally. That being said, I think its really hard to compare rivalries based on national significance. At its core, a rivalry is about the fans even more than it is about the teams and players; if the fans are really passionate about their hatred for another school, the rivalry will be good. While the significance of the games in terms of winning a championship can be a part of that, a really great rivalry is just as ferocious regardless of long term implications.

My girlfriend is a Georgetown student and her father a Louisville grad. Even if those rivalries do not garner as much national attention as they have in the past, Georgetown students hate Syracuse and Louisville students despite Kentucky. As long as the two teams are fairly closely-matched on the floor, these rivalries are very strong.

In terms of other great rivalries that haven't been mentioned, there are a bunch in NCAA hockey: BC-BU, Michigan-Michigan St., Minnesota-Wisconson to name a few.

sagegrouse
11-03-2008, 01:10 PM
I am not sure the DBR members agreeing with themselves advances the forefront of knowledge. I think most would agree that Duke-UNC is #1 in basketball (if not, Dickie V. would cause one to lose one's hearing as he started shouting about it). Beyond Duke and UNC, it gets a bit more argumentative. Here's one source, though. (http://http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/2-14-2003-35500.asp)

College football rivalries are of even greater interest. And, moreover, there is less agreement. In this post (http://http://www.faniq.com/poll_results.php?poll_id=261353&rnum=), the highest ranking rivalry -- Mich-Ohio State -- got only 7% of the votes.

sagegrouse

Dr. Rosenrosen
11-03-2008, 02:07 PM
When there were still lots of independents in college football, there may have been no better rivalry (at least in football) than Miami-Notre Dame. Catholics vs. Convicts! I grew up a Convicts fan and miss those big games which almost always had major bowl and championship implications.

hurleyfor3
11-03-2008, 02:48 PM
When there were still lots of independents in college football, there may have been no better rivalry (at least in football) than Miami-Notre Dame. Catholics vs. Convicts! I grew up a Convicts fan and miss those big games which almost always had major bowl and championship implications.

Didn't ND "ban" those T-shirts on campus? Now that's a rivalry, when school administrations start to partiticpate in it! How did that work, anyway? Did they threaten to expell kids for wearing n forbidden T-shirt? And what if you weren't a student, just visiting campus that day maybe, and were wearing one?

brevity
11-04-2008, 01:34 AM
Of all the rivalries out there, it was Duke-UNC that launched ESPN 2.

I was thinking along the same lines. I'm not entirely sure about this, but back in the mid-90s ESPN made a power play to get cable systems in Kentucky to add ESPN2 to their lineups by broadcasting the Louisville-Kentucky game exclusively on The Deuce. Naturally, the network succeeded.

There's no consensus on a 2nd-best college hoops rivalry because the best candidates would still lag far behind. Xavier-Cincinnati is usually a high-quality game, regardless of who's up or down that year. Louisville-Kentucky really should be more hyped than it is, especially with Pitino's defection; I don't know why we regard it so lightly. Both rivalries are out of conference, which reduces the stakes somewhat.

If Michigan and Michigan State can coexist in the Top 25 anytime soon, they might be a good option. UCLA-USC is kind of there right now, but the conference superiority is still too one-sided.

DukieBoy
11-04-2008, 06:46 AM
I would disagree with both ↑as each is based only on geography and has no conference standing implication. Duke - UNC is very often for a lot of marbles and thus makes it totally unique. The closest I can think of are UCLA - USC and Michigan - Michigan State, though they both have far less national implication.


I would say Purdue-Indiana is a big rivalry. The rivalry is probably more based on the fact that they are in the same state and conference, but it did have national title implications when Knight was there. It could this year too with Purdue having a very talented team.