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gep
03-27-2007, 12:20 AM
If things don't change quickly in Orlando, JJ is going to be in a similar situation. It's almost to the point where either he or the coach is going to need to go in order for him to be successful in his early NBA career. And if the Magic are going to keep Brian Hill I sincerely hope they do trade JJ.


I'm also glad for Mike... hopefully, this change will do well for him.

As far as JJ, I'd like to think that for now, Grant is "helping" JJ along... something Mike didn't have at Golden State.

Cameron
03-27-2007, 12:40 AM
^^I'd also like to think that Brian Hill is sleeping with Carlos Arroyo because, if not, then JJ has been getting royally screwed this season for no real reason.

JJ could be a 10, 12 PPG scorer in the NBA right now, if he were given the proper opportunity to shine. I still think he could have had a shot at Rookie of the Year had he been placed on any other lottery team last summer.

Uncle Drew
03-27-2007, 02:13 AM
You can't tell me with D. Howard drawing a double team every time he touches the ball there isn't room and playing time for a guy who was drilling NBA 3's in college. Orlando and Atlanta (for those who don't know where Sheldon Willams plays.) the past two drafts have selected players at positions where they had an over abundance. Orlando didn't need a guard and Atlanta didn't need a forward, but they both selected the best available player at that point in the draft. The thing I don't understand is when you draft a player you don't need why not trade for one you do to benefiteveryone involved.

TwoDukeTattoos
11-02-2008, 07:49 AM
It appears that JJ has Van Gundy's vote of confidence has JJ has seen an average of 13 minutes during the Magic's first 3 games. The problem, however, is that JJ is a combined 0-8 from the field. We all know he's a pure shooter, so I'm not concerned about his shot. I am, however, concerned that his coaching staff will give up on him before his shot comes to him.

My son idolizes JJ and still had the big "Chronicles of Redick" POY poster hanging in his room. C'mon, JJ - show the NBA what you can do!!

actionjackson215
11-02-2008, 09:23 AM
I personally don't feel that 13 minutes a game is much of a chance. In the Magic/Grizzlies game, Bogans seemed to be the guy VG trusted, getting most of the minutes in the 4th quarter.

DukieBoy
11-02-2008, 09:34 AM
I personally don't feel that 13 minutes a game is much of a chance. In the Magic/Grizzlies game, Bogans seemed to be the guy VG trusted, getting most of the minutes in the 4th quarter.

It may not be the best of chances, I agree, but it's better than anything he's gotten before. I feel the same as TwoDukeTattoos. Redick needs to find his stroke before the coaches give up on him for good.

heyman25
11-02-2008, 05:06 PM
He really needs to start scoring points or he will not stay with the Magic or have other teams interested in him.He may have to play in Europe and if shooting % stays in the 30's this season,that may be a reach unless he has a great agent.

yancem
11-02-2008, 07:39 PM
I personally don't feel that 13 minutes a game is much of a chance. In the Magic/Grizzlies game, Bogans seemed to be the guy VG trusted, getting most of the minutes in the 4th quarter.

While I agree,whose to say that his minutes wouldn't be higher if his shots were falling. He's in the game for offense so he has to score to stay on the floor.

annie1999
11-02-2008, 10:03 PM
Unfortunately I think his days in the league are numbered. He's Trajan Langdon all over again, too slow for his size. NBA 2's are lock-down defenders for the most part, and that's clearly not JJ. Trajan's had a fantastic career overseas, so it might be a great outcome for JJ.

KandG
11-02-2008, 11:55 PM
I posted some of this in the thread on DeMarcus, but JJ seems surprisingly stiff and tentative his first few games, and the last Magic game against Sacramento was a complete disaster -- 3 awful looking shots that had none of the zip you expect from a confident shooter.

Part of his problem is that the Magic offense overall is still struggling to find a groove this early, so JJ usually ends up getting the scraps after his teammates struggle to establish any sort of flow...and the Magic players are not good passers. When JJ is on the floor with Turkoglu or Lewis (or worse, both), he's unlikely to get anything outside of maybe a desperation pass from a teammate toward the end of the shot clock.

JJ has not looked bad on defense...I haven't noticed him getting abused by opposing guards. But he hasn't looked like a real impact player on either end at this point either -- guys like Bogans and Anthony Johnson, who are not exactly elite players lighting it up on offense, are neverthless getting the playing time because they are more aggressive in making things happen, so they've been getting the PT in the second half when the starters need rest. JJ gets most of his burn in the first half.

The thing is, the Magic do not have a great bench this year, so there is definitely the opportunity for JJ. But if he continues his tentative play, SVG may just shorten his rotation. And then it's back to wondering whether JJ will be traded, or just head to Europe.

KandG
11-03-2008, 09:55 PM
Monday update: looks like JJ is back in the doghouse -- DNP tonight. Rookie Courtney Lee got JJ's minutes, and didn't do much better, but the Magic as a whole played a crisper game.

I think JJ is just not SVG's type of player. He may not be an NBA player either, though he'll never figure it out with the Magic. Time for him to move on and get a chance somewhere else.

heyman25
11-03-2008, 10:10 PM
He has to make shots. Deng did not make any either but he has had big games. JJ has not had the luxury of playing time. They gave him a sliver of pt and he did not deliver. Now he is in danger of not playing and not being a desired trade. He can't move on if he is not wanted by the league's GM's.Otis Smith has made him a prisoner and its his job to get some value in a trade. Who wants an unproven shooting guard that has not hit a shot in the 1st 2 games.

KandG
11-03-2008, 11:14 PM
Otis Smith has made him a prisoner and its his job to get some value in a trade. Who wants an unproven shooting guard that has not hit a shot in the 1st 2 games.


I agree that they've really screwed up with him --- haven't figured out a way to make him deliver value for the Magic, haven't figured out a way to showcase his potential value for a trade.

In fairness to JJ, not only does he play a position for which there are a surplus of players in the league, but the Magic have too many perimeter types on the team, even at forward-- especially Lewis and Hedo. So JJ has to compete for shots on a team with very similar types of players, and he's not athletic enough to distinguish himself (at least not the way SVG uses him).

But giving JJ a grand total of 3 games to prove himself...it ain't working out. And this is what he's been dealing with his whole career with the Magic.

dukemomLA
11-03-2008, 11:28 PM
Again, let's pray that JJ gets out of the Magic debacle. Good for him, good for them. ah.....

SilkyJ
11-03-2008, 11:30 PM
Well JJ had a DNP-CD tonight, so that's that...again...though maybe not as courtney lee took his place and didn't do much according to the box score, though we all know that can be deceiving...would actually love to hear how his D was from anyone who watched the game, especially compared to JJ's over the past 3 games

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=281101019

in other news, demarcus continues to be put up steady numbers. nothing jumping out, but he is shooting well from the field and not turning the ball over, i imagine that steady, solid play with combined with his defense and versatility and knack to make hustle plays like tipins, rebounds, steals, etc. are making him an attractive option for the backup spot at PG in a month or so... (lets be honest, thats what he's playing for) Played 23 minutes again tonight up from 13 and 12 in the first two games. Gotta work on that FT shooting still...

CJ Watson still got more than him at the point, which worries me at little, but demarcus is going to get better game by game, and CJ is has sort of peaked...to anyone who saw the game: did they ever get any run together i know he said he might run him with monta, so monta could guard the 1 and demarcus the 2?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=281101017

gep
11-03-2008, 11:45 PM
in other news, demarcus continues to be put up steady numbers. nothing jumping out, but i imagine that steady, solid play with combined with his defense.

As other posters have mentioned, stats and box scores don't completely reflect the value of a player to the team game.... (e.g. Chris Duhon). Hopefully, DeMarcus is doing what's necessary towards this end:)

SilkyJ
11-04-2008, 12:04 AM
As other posters have mentioned, stats and box scores don't completely reflect the value of a player to the team game.... (e.g. Chris Duhon). Hopefully, DeMarcus is doing what's necessary towards this end:)

I said it too. just look, i promise.

Also, I got all screwed up above looking at demarcus' game log and he played 23mins LAST game, and 26mins TONIGHT, and got more run than CJ watson and Azubuike...my bad.

though that working on the FT sitch still stands...

KandG
11-04-2008, 12:35 AM
i know he said he might run him with monta, so monta could guard the 1 and demarcus the 2?



Coach Nelson is unconventional enough to try a variety of things, but in general, a lineup with monta and markie is a tough one to pull off -- just not enough size or combined offense to make up for what they would give up on defense.

I still think Markie's future is as a defensive backup, but I am really proud of his effort so far, and he's fit in far better than I would have expected with the Warriors. He needs that mid-range jumper to get better and give himself some staying power in the lineup, though.

RainingThrees
11-04-2008, 12:48 AM
A floater would also work very well. Look at Chris Paul he's not the best shooter so when trying to score he either takes it all the way or pulls up for the tear drop. A better example might be Tony Parker, since Chris Paul is more of a pure point while the Spurs run their offense through Duncan, with more scoring going to Parker.

heyman25
11-04-2008, 03:57 AM
not good news for JJ
this from ESPN
Magic backup Keith Bogans, who's had 13 points off the bench after play sparingly in the preseason, continued to take minutes away from J.J. Redick at the shooting guard. Bogans' outside shooting keyed a 12-0 run late in the first quarter as the Magic took a 31-21 lead.
"Bogans' been the only guy on the entire team we were plus with with him on the floor in the first three games," Van Gundy said. "That decision was easy."
Redick, who had his option for next season picked up in the preseason and has been a fan favorite, has seen his minutes dwindle from 19 in the opener to only nine in the victory over Sacramento on Saturday. He didn't play Monday.

TwoDukeTattoos
11-04-2008, 05:27 AM
It's too bad for this happen. I watched the box score closely last night hoping that JJ would at least get in the game, and of course, it didn't happen.

_Gary
11-04-2008, 09:47 AM
When is someone going to listen to me on this one?!! I live about an hour or so away from Orlando and follow the team closely. I'm telling everyone here, JJ will NOT get a truly solid shot with SVG coaching this team, any more than he got with Brian Hill. Neither of them really run a system that fits his style of play. There is simply no question that the only way JJ is going to make it in the NBA at this point is if he's on another team. Otherwise, he's looking at playing overseas. He will not get a fair shake in Orlando - period. Take that to the bank.

sagegrouse
11-04-2008, 10:48 AM
Can we edit the title of this thread either by inserting a "not" before "given" or a "no" in stead of "a" after it ......... or both?

sagegrouse
'JJ not given no chance'

KandG
11-08-2008, 11:14 AM
Can we edit the title of this thread either by inserting a "not" before "given" or a "no" in stead of "a" after it ......... or both?

sagegrouse
'JJ not given no chance'


So true...JJ is pretty much on the outs. We're only five or six games into the season, and it looks like JJ is in the doghouse for good. Time to heat up those trade talks.



JJ can't crack Van Gundy's Rotation (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/orl-magic0808nov08,0,7136417.story)

weezie
11-08-2008, 11:53 AM
When is someone going to listen to me on this one?!! I'm telling everyone here, JJ will NOT get a truly solid shot with SVG coaching this team, any more than he got with Brian Hill. Neither of them really run a system that fits his style of play. There is simply no question that the only way JJ is going to make it in the NBA at this point is if he's on another team. Otherwise, he's looking at playing overseas. He will not get a fair shake in Orlando - period. Take that to the bank.

So which NBA team/coach would be a good fit for him? I don't want to get slapped but what about Mike D and the Knicks?

Ping Lin
11-08-2008, 01:35 PM
Well, JJ has yet to make a field goal this season; he's currently 0-15. I hate it for the guy, but it's hard to fault SVG on this one.

That said, I hope he can break out with another team.

yancem
11-08-2008, 01:57 PM
Yesterday I was thinking about JJ's situation and was remembering a debate a group of us has last season comparing him to Kerr and Paxton. I was also thinking about other Duke players which got me thinking about Deng and his situation in Chicago when it hit me that JJ really is a very similar player to Ben Gordon. I know Gordon is having an exponentially better career than JJ so far but really, they are quite similar. They are both undersized sg's with great shooting touch and defensive limitations. Gordon is slightly more athletic but the difference isn't great. Gordon might have a better handle than JJ but again I doubt is a big difference.

To me the biggest difference between JJ and Gordon is that Gordon has had coaches that have overlooked his defensive deficiencies and given him a green light to shoot while JJ's coaches have kept him on a short leash due to his below average defense and have given him few opportunities to prove himself on offense. I know that JJ got into the first couple of games and missed his shots but Gordon has nights like that all the time without being relegated to the end of the bench.

I don't know if JJ will ever be able to match Gordon's success but I do think that a comparison of the two is a good illustration of how being on the right team with the right coach can easily make or break a player. Sometimes a players lack of success has less to with the player and more to do with the team he plays for.

_Gary
11-08-2008, 07:03 PM
There's a huge difference between JJ and Gordon. Ben can create his own shot, despite his small stature. He can take it to the hole and finishes a good bit with contact too. JJ is much more dependent on his teammates than Gordon is. Just my two cents.

kinghoops
11-08-2008, 10:41 PM
boy he really got his chance tonite 11/8, 3 mins, 2 rebs, 1 assist. now mind you this was in a blowout win. doesnt look like he is going to get much of a chance unless there is an injury

KandG
11-09-2008, 03:00 AM
To me the biggest difference between JJ and Gordon is that Gordon has had coaches that have overlooked his defensive deficiencies and given him a green light to shoot while JJ's coaches have kept him on a short leash due to his below average defense and have given him few opportunities to prove himself on offense. I know that JJ got into the first couple of games and missed his shots but Gordon has nights like that all the time without being relegated to the end of the bench.



Interesting thoughts, but to echo what Gary said, Gordon is a more freakishly athletic and talented offensive player who can create his own shot even when defended tightly. JJ himself has alluded to his limitations as an athlete (most infamously after the LSU loss in the tournament).

It is true that both players are problematic defensively and that Gordon has been cut more slack. But Gordon has played for Scott Skiles, who isn't exactly a freewheeling offensive coach...he didn't think highly of Gordon's defense and fully recognized how much he hurt the team in that sense, but Skiles couldn't ignore how capable Gordon was offensively. JJ just doesn't have that level of talent to sway a coach like SVG away from his tendencies.

I do think JJ could do better in a more open system like D'Antoni's with the Knicks or Nelson's with Golden State...maybe he could even get some burn with a team like San Antonio struggling with injuries. But it's really tough to determine how good he could be when he's been stuck with one team playing so little -- could he be the next Dell Curry? Or is he just a slightly better Steve Novak?

For those interested in looking at numbers, the weighted plus/minus ratings for all NBA players can be seen here:

http://82games.com/ilardi2.htm

JJ has one of the worst defensive ratings for players with less than 2000 minutes. Gordon doesn't have a great number either but it's nowhere near as bad. Probably can't be compared because of the huge disparities in playing time and the different situations, but it's still interesting to glance at.

jma4life
11-09-2008, 03:07 AM
I really hope JJ gets playing time and can live up to the potential I believe he has for some team.

That said, while he's on the Magic, I hope that he continues to do whatever he can at this point to make the team as good as possible. I realize that in the NBA you're fighting for your salary, etc, but I hope and expect that Redick is doing whatever he can not just to improve his situation but to improve the team.

In college, a lot of players on Duke play a few minutes all season. In the past, one might argue that some of them could have done better at another school or that they deserved more pt, but given K's preferences regarding Duke's style of play they didn't.

I certainly would be disappointed if those players didn't do whatever they could to better the team at practice, etc. It would certainly be understandable for certain guys to be upset with their individual situation. But the hope is that they still bust I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. for the sake of the team, and if they sulk, do it on their own time without affecting the team.

For the record, I fully believe that Redick is doing just that. He might complain to the media more than occurs in college but thats part of the nature of pro ball. As long as he's still busting his I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. to help his team in practice, which he most certainly is, he's still doing his job.

yancem
11-09-2008, 01:27 PM
Interesting thoughts, but to echo what Gary said, Gordon is a more freakishly athletic and talented offensive player who can create his own shot even when defended tightly. JJ himself has alluded to his limitations as an athlete (most infamously after the LSU loss in the tournament).

It is true that both players are problematic defensively and that Gordon has been cut more slack. But Gordon has played for Scott Skiles, who isn't exactly a freewheeling offensive coach...he didn't think highly of Gordon's defense and fully recognized how much he hurt the team in that sense, but Skiles couldn't ignore how capable Gordon was offensively. JJ just doesn't have that level of talent to sway a coach like SVG away from his tendencies.

I have never thought of Gordon as being freakishly athletic. To be honest, I'm not sure he is that much more athletic JJ. I may have missed something but when I have watched the Bulls Gordon has gotten most of his shots coming off screens not by blowing by a defender. He also seems to prefer the layup over the dunk on the fast break. If someone is 6'3" and freakishly athletic, then I would expect them to dunk the ball. Duhon and JWill are both shorter and dunk the ball. I would consider them freakishly athletic.

KandG
11-09-2008, 03:47 PM
I have never thought of Gordon as being freakishly athletic. To be honest, I'm not sure he is that much more athletic JJ. I may have missed something but when I have watched the Bulls Gordon has gotten most of his shots coming off screens not by blowing by a defender. He also seems to prefer the layup over the dunk on the fast break. If someone is 6'3" and freakishly athletic, then I would expect them to dunk the ball. Duhon and JWill are both shorter and dunk the ball. I would consider them freakishly athletic.


I guess this comes down as to how you define "freakish" and "athletic" (there's a joke in there somewhere). It's true that the way most of us think of freakish athleticism is folks like Lebron or Jordan, and dunking (and playing above the rim) is the skill most commonly associated with the term.

And maybe with Gordon, "athletic" isn't the most appropriate term to describe what makes him effective. Though Gordon is certainly athletic -- he has quickness and strength for his size that is deceptive and that allows him to get off his shot even against taller defenders. He finishes with contact extremely well for someone of his build.

I haven't watched the Bulls much lately, though I did catch the game last night against Cleveland where Gordon got extended time with Hinrich being hurt. Gordon didn't rely very much on screens outside of one or two plays -- the Cavs were actually double teaming him heaviily because he was hurting them with the way he was shooting (plus he's not a very effective passer when pressured). He was extremely effective with the quick 3s and he's much better on the drive than JJ is -- he can get off quick floaters and/or lay the ball in against taller defenders.

Maybe this is all a longwinded way of saying that Gordon is a more athletic *scorer* than JJ is. (I might rescind the term "freakish" at this point -- I was probably swayed by seeing him in last night's game). But considering his deficiencies (poor defensively, so-so ballhandler, short), I think athleticism certainly plays a role in his effectiveness....Gordon is amazingly productive as a scorer given his issues. JJ just hasn't shown that he can do the same or anything close, and I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect of him.

I'd love to be wrong though -- some pundits had expectations of this being a breakout year for him, but I think expectations are much lower now.

dukegirlinsc
11-09-2008, 06:59 PM
My son idolizes JJ and still had the big "Chronicles of Redick" POY poster hanging in his room.

I still have that poster hanging in my room, as well. :D

yancem
11-09-2008, 11:27 PM
I guess this comes down as to how you define "freakish" and "athletic" (there's a joke in there somewhere). It's true that the way most of us think of freakish athleticism is folks like Lebron or Jordan, and dunking (and playing above the rim) is the skill most commonly associated with the term.

And maybe with Gordon, "athletic" isn't the most appropriate term to describe what makes him effective. Though Gordon is certainly athletic -- he has quickness and strength for his size that is deceptive and that allows him to get off his shot even against taller defenders. He finishes with contact extremely well for someone of his build.

I haven't watched the Bulls much lately, though I did catch the game last night against Cleveland where Gordon got extended time with Hinrich being hurt. Gordon didn't rely very much on screens outside of one or two plays -- the Cavs were actually double teaming him heaviily because he was hurting them with the way he was shooting (plus he's not a very effective passer when pressured). He was extremely effective with the quick 3s and he's much better on the drive than JJ is -- he can get off quick floaters and/or lay the ball in against taller defenders.

Maybe this is all a longwinded way of saying that Gordon is a more athletic *scorer* than JJ is. (I might rescind the term "freakish" at this point -- I was probably swayed by seeing him in last night's game). But considering his deficiencies (poor defensively, so-so ballhandler, short), I think athleticism certainly plays a role in his effectiveness....Gordon is amazingly productive as a scorer given his issues. JJ just hasn't shown that he can do the same or anything close, and I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect of him.

I'd love to be wrong though -- some pundits had expectations of this being a breakout year for him, but I think expectations are much lower now.

I define athletic as physical abilities such as speed, quickness, leaping ability and to a certain extent strength and coordination. The last two are important but I don't think that anyone can be athletic based only on those two. A body builder is strong but not necessarily athletic. A juggler is very coordinated but again not necessarily athletic. Of course being a great athlete doesn't guarantee a person of being a great player. Anyway, I haven't really noticed Gordon as being incredibly athletic. Maybe I need to watch him play more.

dukegirlinsc
11-09-2008, 11:47 PM
Can we edit the title of this thread either by inserting a "not" before "given" or a "no" in stead of "a" after it ......... or both?

sagegrouse
'JJ not given no chance'

Agreed. How frustrating.

Maybe it's the braces? :rolleyes:
Kidding.

heyman25
11-10-2008, 01:59 AM
With 82 games in a season. Key players go down with injuries,not for the whole year. If someone needs a shooting guard that may be JJ's only salvation. Not making a shot in the first 2 games may have doomed his whole year with a vindictive coach like Jeff Van Gundy.He will be a gamble for other teams because Van Gundy won't give him a fair shake.Nobody knows his value, unless they saw his preseason play.

jma4life
11-10-2008, 03:11 AM
AI usually doesn't dunk either. Doesn't necessarily mean one can't dunk or lacks athleticism.

And Gordon certainly can dunk. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mzsazDWVcY&feature=related

But even if he hasn't, hes got excellent quickness.

monkey
11-10-2008, 11:32 AM
I feel bad that things aren't working out for JJ ... but people blaming SVG are being more than a bit ridiculous. JJ's most valuable and NBA-quality skill is his outside shot -- and he wasn't delivering on the area in which he specializes.

So what if he was only getting 13 mpg. This is like blaming a coach for benching a field goal kicker who misses the few times a game when brought in to kick the field goal.

mkirsh
11-10-2008, 12:55 PM
"Fit" is extremely important in the NBA, and it seems obvious that JJ isn't a great fit for the Magic's system or SVG. If you look at the guys who are 5-12 on most NBA rosters (and some starters on some of the bad teams), the difference between those guys being in the NBA or playing d-league/overseas is pretty thin, and most of them are around because they fit the system or the coach or both. I think there is a place for JJ in the NBA (I always though he would be great as Rip Hamilton's back up in Detriot or a wide-open offensive system like D'Antoni's Knicks or Toronto). However, since he's not a sure fire player in all systems, I think the stars need to line up for him somewhat to make it in the NBA. I hope it happens as I love watching him play, but agree with Gary that it's not likely to happen in Orlando.

miramar
11-16-2008, 03:09 PM
Shelden and JJ are about as active as Shav and Josh.JJ can't make shots when he gets in the game and Shelden is not as good as their rookie Thompson from Rider.

It's really unfortunate, but JJ hasn't made a field goal this season. And Shelden doesn't seem to have much of a future with Sacto.

http://www.sacbee.com/kings/story/1329957.html

Let's hope they're traded or hook up with another team next year.

Marty10
11-18-2008, 07:46 PM
JJ got the start tonight against the raptors, he's playing well so far, he's 2 of 6 from the field 1 of 2 from 3. He's moving well on offense and getting open shots, its only a matter of time before they start falling in.

heyman25
11-18-2008, 07:54 PM
Lightning must have struck Van Gundy's house yesterday. I am totally surprised. JJ make a better % than 33 1/3 and you will play again.I think this is the 1st game that he has actually made a field goal

heyman25
11-18-2008, 08:36 PM
10 pts and still in the game. Stunning development, JJ has played over 20 minutes in a game and its not even the 4th quarter yet

zingit
11-18-2008, 08:45 PM
Interesting. I saw that Pietrus is injured, but still I wondered why Bogans wasn't starting instead, since he has been ahead of JJ in the depth chart pretty much since the season officially started. Apparently SVG wants to keep the bench rotation the same, so JJ leapfrogged the bench players. Works for me! Maybe SVG will see how JJ can be an asset. I'm glad that JJ has been able to stay ready despite not getting playing time.

WojoSay?
11-18-2008, 09:05 PM
30 mins in 3 quarters. I hope this is a sign of things to come.

Jim3k
11-18-2008, 09:56 PM
34+ mins. 4 for 9 = 10 pts; no turnovers; 1 steal; +/- was +20.

If that continues, he'll be out there a lot. Oh...and most importantly, Orlando beat Toronto by 13.

CDu
11-18-2008, 10:05 PM
I have never thought of Gordon as being freakishly athletic. To be honest, I'm not sure he is that much more athletic JJ. I may have missed something but when I have watched the Bulls Gordon has gotten most of his shots coming off screens not by blowing by a defender. He also seems to prefer the layup over the dunk on the fast break. If someone is 6'3" and freakishly athletic, then I would expect them to dunk the ball. Duhon and JWill are both shorter and dunk the ball. I would consider them freakishly athletic.

I think you're way off on Gordon. He is absolutely someone I'd call freakishly athletic. He's incredibly quick and has pretty good hops. He has shown on many occasions as a Bull the ability to dunk with authority. In fact, during Gordon's first year in the league, Eddy Curry referred to him as Little Superman because of his athleticism.

The fact that Gordon frequently goes for the layup is not evidence that he's not athletic - it's evidence that he doesn't want to waste energy dunking. As a Duke fan and a Bulls fan I've seen plenty of both players. And trust me - the differences between Gordon and Redick athletically are substantial.

chrisheery
11-18-2008, 10:19 PM
is most assuredly a freak athlete. He is a short 2 guard, but he is fast as anyone and can jump with almost anyone in the NBA. Look at that alley-oop, that is Steve Francis-like. Comparing him to JJ is just silly. JJ brings perfect technique and plays off his teammates amazingly. If you could combine the athleticism of Gordon and the height, basketball smarts, ability to play under control, and shooting ability of JJ, you would have Dwayne Wade.

By the way, so glad JJ got to play tonight. Hope Pietrus (spelling?) is out for a few games so he gets a chance. If you look on a box score that has this, look at JJ's +/-. He was +20 tonight and is frequently in the high +'s when he plays. Its the most important stat in team sports.

dukelifer
11-18-2008, 10:48 PM
34+ mins. 4 for 9 = 10 pts; no turnovers; 1 steal; +/- was +20.

If that continues, he'll be out there a lot. Oh...and most importantly, Orlando beat Toronto by 13.

JJ is a starter- that is, he plays better when he plays more and from the get go. He is not a come-off-the bench guy. Some guys can make the transition- some cannot. Basketball at this level is about confidence. If Van Gundy has more confidence in JJ - JJ will have more confidence in himself and he will begin to relax and just play and not think. Time will tell.

yancem
11-18-2008, 11:01 PM
I think you're way off on Gordon. He is absolutely someone I'd call freakishly athletic. He's incredibly quick and has pretty good hops. He has shown on many occasions as a Bull the ability to dunk with authority. In fact, during Gordon's first year in the league, Eddy Curry referred to him as Little Superman because of his athleticism.

The fact that Gordon frequently goes for the layup is not evidence that he's not athletic - it's evidence that he doesn't want to waste energy dunking. As a Duke fan and a Bulls fan I've seen plenty of both players. And trust me - the differences between Gordon and Redick athletically are substantial.

I'll have to try to watch more Chicago games. The few times I've seen them play it always seemed like he always came off screens or received passes via drives and kicks.

TheBrianZoubekExperience
11-19-2008, 11:42 AM
I do like like JJ is being given a chance and agree he needs starter type minutes to be effective. He operates more in the flow of the offense and game and I think its hard to just plug him into a game and expect him to start raining threes. If you try to do that with him he's not going to take the best shots which probably contributes to his poor shooting though most of that is still on him to make the shots.

I also think he'd benefit from being in a situation where the offense either move quicker so he has more opportunities to find open spots. Also, defensively its tough to play him with Nelson in my opinion. Nelson is short and not a great defender. Any team with a decent SG poses a matchup problem where JJ either has to guard a good scorer or Nelso has to and give up a ton of size. JJ might beneifit defensively from playing on a team with a good defensive point guard. My .02.

Also, you can't credibly compares Gordon's athleticism to JJ's. Gordon is in an entirely different league athletically. He is much quicker and always has the threat to drive. Its much easier to close out on JJ hard and make him put the ball on the floor. JJ is not good at driving in the NBA at this point. Gordon can. Even when they appear to be doing the same thing, you have to consider that the defense has to respect Gordon's speed and athleticism and his ability to drive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RV7MmeqniOI

Here is a good mix of Gordon with some good drives. I can't see JJ driving like this.

----------
"And on the 3rd Day, God Created Zoubek"

JasonEvans
11-19-2008, 11:58 AM
34+ mins. 4 for 9 = 10 pts; no turnovers; 1 steal; +/- was +20.

If that continues, he'll be out there a lot. Oh...and most importantly, Orlando beat Toronto by 13.

If JJ gets 30+ minutes a game over the next couple weeks, I guarantee he will have a game where he scores more than 20 and just takes over for a while. It will happen.

--Jason "what a nice development for a kid who has kept his head up and kept on working in the face of some frustrating times" Evans

ForeverBlowingBubbles
11-19-2008, 11:59 AM
is most assuredly a freak athlete. He is a short 2 guard, but he is fast as anyone and can jump with almost anyone in the NBA. Look at that alley-oop, that is Steve Francis-like. Comparing him to JJ is just silly. JJ brings perfect technique and plays off his teammates amazingly. If you could combine the athleticism of Gordon and the height, basketball smarts, ability to play under control, and shooting ability of JJ, you would have Dwayne Wade.

By the way, so glad JJ got to play tonight. Hope Pietrus (spelling?) is out for a few games so he gets a chance. If you look on a box score that has this, look at JJ's +/-. He was +20 tonight and is frequently in the high +'s when he plays. Its the most important stat in team sports.

You wouldn't have anything close to Dwayne Wade. He's not a great outside shooter, He's a much much much better ball handler, jumper, athlete, rebounder, passer; has longer arms, is one of the top 5 quickest guys in the NBA, and much much more. He's also a decent defender - JJ and Gordon both are below average defenders.

ice-9
11-19-2008, 12:22 PM
Maybe more Michael Redd or Ray Allen (in his prime) than Dwayne Wade?

SilkyJ
11-19-2008, 02:57 PM
this one kind of snuck up on me last night when i was glancing at scores. Great news obviously, and I totally agree with Jason that he can/will blow up if you give him a few games with 30 minutes.

It was great to see him score a little, but equally great to see ZERO turnovers and only 1 foul. Anybody see the game live or on TV and can offer some commentary on his D?

TheBrianZoubekExperience
11-19-2008, 03:33 PM
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=PERdieminsider-081119

ESPN's John hollinger:

"We had a J.J. Redick sighting Tuesday night. With Mickael Pietrus sidelined by bruised ribs and the Raptors lacking an imposing perimeter scorer, Orlando opted to start Redick and played him 34 minutes -- or about 33 longer than his usual stint. With the benefit of playing time, Redick actually relaxed a little, hitting his first buckets after an 0-for-10 start to the season and scoring 10 points without a turnover. Redick's 2008-09 numbers remain brutal, but given that his full-season stats from last season were reasonably good and that he has yet to approach his spectacular college 3-point numbers as a pro, I still suspect he can do more than he's shown thus far."

tbyers11
11-19-2008, 04:58 PM
Good read about JJ's first career start (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/orl-sportsmside19111908nov19,0,4016176.story) from the Orlando Sentinel.

The article also has praise for JJ's defense on Anthony Parker. Also says that Pietrus is likely only out for one more game at most

lazee
11-19-2008, 05:22 PM
JJ highlights and post-game interview from last night

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eABG__5dzQk

WojoSay?
11-19-2008, 06:42 PM
JJ highlights and post-game interview from last night

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eABG__5dzQk

Thanks for the link.

chrisheery
11-20-2008, 12:28 AM
You wouldn't have anything close to Dwayne Wade. He's not a great outside shooter, He's a much much much better ball handler, jumper, athlete, rebounder, passer; has longer arms, is one of the top 5 quickest guys in the NBA, and much much more. He's also a decent defender - JJ and Gordon both are below average defenders.

JJ's deficiencies on defense stem mostly from his lack of athleticism. Gordon's stem mainly from his lack of effort and concentration. I disagree that Wade is a great ball handler, but he is a much smarter player about when and where he attacks the hoop.

Regardless, it was more of an example to show the differences between the two than to decide who they would be if you could combine them. I mean, who cares.

But, thank you for dissecting something that was clearly meant to make a completely different point. That is very helpful to the ongoing discussion.

chrisheery
11-20-2008, 12:30 AM
Maybe more Michael Redd or Ray Allen (in his prime) than Dwayne Wade?

In his prime, that is probably about right. But, like I said, this was never the point of why I mentioned it.

KandG
11-20-2008, 02:21 AM
Like everyone else here, I was completely shocked to be channel surfing around the basketball games and to see JJ in uniform and playing -- I honestly thought maybe highlights were being shown from last year.

Unfortunately, given Pietrus is likely to be back by the end of the week, I suspect JJ will end up back on the pine, scraping for garbage minutes. What his start did accompllish, though, was alleviating any fears Van Gundy might have had about the defense and overall play going down the tubes with JJ having significant minutes. So maybe SVG will be more willing to experiment with some lineups that give JJ more time.

At the very least, I'm sure Orlando liked having the ability to showcase JJ, with the possibility of making a trade sometime midseason. JJ's 33 minutes of play prior to last night's start were so dreadful that the Magic would definitely have been selling low in any trade scenario. The more time JJ gets, the more another team's interest may be piqued.

hq2
11-20-2008, 10:07 AM
Actually, believe it or not, J.J. started, played 34 minutes and scored 10 points.
But don't get your hopes up; they had him on Jose Calderon. He won't play against the better guards.

Jumbo
11-20-2008, 10:12 AM
Actually, believe it or not, J.J. started, played 34 minutes and scored 10 points.
But don't get your hopes up; they had him on Jose Calderon. He won't play against the better guards.

Jose Calderon is a very good guard. J.J. started because Pietrus was hurt.

Oriole Way
11-20-2008, 10:43 AM
Actually, believe it or not, J.J. started, played 34 minutes and scored 10 points.
But don't get your hopes up; they had him on Jose Calderon. He won't play against the better guards.

I actually think Calderon is a top 5 NBA point guard. But he's not going to blow by many guys, which is why J.J. could guard him.

grossbus
11-20-2008, 11:06 AM
he will be back on the end of the bench tonight.

CDu
11-20-2008, 11:17 AM
I'll have to try to watch more Chicago games. The few times I've seen them play it always seemed like he always came off screens or received passes via drives and kicks.

I think he actually does most of his scoring "on the ball." When he doesn't have the ball, most of Gordon's time is spent primarily standing around on offense (he's pretty passive without the ball). Eventually, he'll come to the top and take the ball from a big or from the PG and then will attack his man one-on-one. He's explosive enough to beat his man off the dribble or to create space with a jab-step followed by a jumper.

Now, Gordon does get some points from standing on the wing or in the corner and receiving drive-and-kick passes. But that's just a part of his offensive game. Now, if Gordon worked as hard as Redick does/did off the ball running off screens, he'd be even more explosive as a scorer than he already is. But don't let the fact that he's a good spot-up shooter deceive you into believing he's not athletic and doesn't create his own shots. He does his best scoring work with the ball in his hands, rather than spotting up or coming off of screens.

lazee
11-20-2008, 12:12 PM
Jose Calderon was actually inactive (hamstring), so JJ was guarding the the tandem of Anthony Parker & Jason Kapono, which happened to be a good matchup for him as neither player are the type to post him up or slash to the basket.

FerryFor50
11-20-2008, 12:12 PM
I actually think Calderon is a top 5 NBA point guard. But he's not going to blow by many guys, which is why J.J. could guard him.

Calderon did not play that night:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2008111819

Acymetric
11-23-2008, 01:50 AM
JJ posted some good stats tonight. Not a good night shooting (2-7 FG, 1-3 from 3). But he got to the line for 10 shots, and made 8. Add in a rebound, 3 assists, and no turnovers or fouls. 13 points in 28 minutes of play off the bench. Not a bad performance, though he's still not shooting the ball well.

Good to see he still has the free throw touch.

phaedrus
11-23-2008, 04:27 AM
Good to see he still has the free throw touch.

Meh, he would have made like 9.3 of those in college. Obviously he was effective getting to the line tonight, though. Did anyone see the game?

mgtr
11-23-2008, 05:06 AM
I watched a good bit of the game on TV. JJ has put on some more muscle, and drove into the center a couple times, trying to draw a foul, which he did. When he missed a second free throw, one of the commentators noted that was a whole season of misses for him. He had an open three from the right baseline which went in and came back out. He hit an unmolested three from out in front that looked like the old JJ. He hit a two from 12-15 feet which he made look easy. He played OK defense, but he slacked off his man (Barry) a lot to try to help inside. Hard for me to know what he was supposed to be doing.

_Gary
11-23-2008, 09:28 AM
He played OK defense, but he slacked off his man (Barry) a lot to try to help inside. Hard for me to know what he was supposed to be doing.

True, but on one of those slack offs he drew a charge by coming over and helping out. It was a nice play on his part.

At this point I don't believe it's JJ's defense that's going to keep him off the court as much as his offense. He is what he is on D. A very average, "just stay in front of your man as best you can" defender. And he does ok with that. But the whole point of him being on the court is to knock down open looks. And he missed several last night. The three you mentioned going in and out was just bad luck. He had another longer three toward the end that missed front iron, but those are the type of shots he just has to hit in order to justify him being on the court. He also has to hit the mid-range jumper when he pump fakes a guy and is gliding to his left or right as he shoots. I know he'd rather be squared up (who wouldn't), but that's how he's getting some open looks and he's going to have to find a way to knock those down or I can't see this window of opportunity staying open very long.

Gary

MIKESJ73
11-24-2008, 01:41 PM
After two pretty good games last week, JJ will get a chance finally. 6th man Keith Bogans will be out for 4-6 weeks with a fractured thumb. With Peitrus always in foul trouble and only one other SG, rookie Courtney Lee, he should get plenty of time on the court.

hughesmiester
11-24-2008, 03:11 PM
After two pretty good games last week, JJ will get a chance finally. 6th man Keith Bogans will be out for 4-6 weeks with a fractured thumb. With Peitrus always in foul trouble and only one other SG, rookie Courtney Lee, he should get plenty of time on the court.

I think it's now or never for JJ with the Magic.

_Gary
11-24-2008, 04:59 PM
I think it's now or never for JJ with the Magic.

No question. This is the break he needed, and it is now or never. Hope he makes this chance count!

heyman25
11-24-2008, 07:20 PM
http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_magic/2008/11/jj-redick-has-c.html

He better start making his shots. This is being handed to JJ. Don't blow this golden opportunity.

wisteria
11-24-2008, 07:47 PM
0-3 so far...:( JJ, make a shot.

heyman25
11-24-2008, 07:50 PM
Unbelievable. Maybe Jimmy Barron can send him a tape before its too late. If he can't shoot his value in the NBA will be zero after this season

heyman25
11-24-2008, 08:51 PM
Checked Orlando Milwaukee score board. 2 threes in a row for JJ. The Jimmy Baron (correct spelling) icon is back in business. Lets see if he can get his shooting % to .500 during Bogans absence.

wisteria
11-24-2008, 08:54 PM
3 for 3 from 3, since the 0-3 start. :)

monarch34
11-24-2008, 10:44 PM
3 for 3 from 3, since the 0-3 start. :)

This is precisely why JJ needs more mpg. Earlier in the season, Van Gundy would have yanked him after his 0-3 start, the announcers would have been on JJ for having an awful night shooting, and he never would have been able to level the score. But 3-for-6 from 3 point land is a pretty torrid pace. Heck, in the NBA, 3-for-6 from two-point land is considered a hot hand.

micah75
11-24-2008, 11:19 PM
This is precisely why JJ needs more mpg. Earlier in the season, Van Gundy would have yanked him after his 0-3 start, the announcers would have been on JJ for having an awful night shooting, and he never would have been able to level the score. But 3-for-6 from 3 point land is a pretty torrid pace. Heck, in the NBA, 3-for-6 from two-point land is considered a hot hand.

So, he finished with 10 points on 3 for 6 shooting behind the arc, plus a FT.
Let's hope that in the future Van Gundy will remember this game and not be so hasty to bench JJ for a slow start, when it's fairly obvious he needs those extra minutes to find his rhythm and confidence.

wisteria
11-24-2008, 11:30 PM
The magic's message board is hilarious. Not a day can pass without a fight about JJ. So much hate. So much defending as well. Despite being a bench warmer for two years, JJ apparently still sells tickets better than anyone else.

RelativeWays
11-25-2008, 08:15 AM
The magic's message board is hilarious. Not a day can pass without a fight about JJ. So much hate. So much defending as well. Despite being a bench warmer for two years, JJ apparently still sells tickets better than anyone else.


He's the number 2 selling jersey after Dwight Howard. Thats the main reason Olando keeps him around. Despite the fact that a lot of people hate Redick for his Duke heritage, many more seem to love the guy in Orlando.

mike88
11-26-2008, 09:37 AM
I had a chance to see the Magic play Monday night vs the Bucks while down in Orlando for vacation. JJ was the first sub off the bench and played major minutes.

As noted above, he missed his first three shots and was getting pretty frustrated with himself, but I was impressed that his defense was actually better than average. He finally got on track by hitting a deep three and getting fouled, and went on to make two more in the second half. His defense stayed strong and he was able to draw another important charge from the help side.

The only negative for JJ was that he made took and missed two ill-advised shots early in the shot clock when the Magic were up 10 points with less than 3 mionutes to go. SVG was clearly frustrated and after the game JJ remarked that he needed to make better decisions . . .

JJ's minutes are going to go up even more, as Jameer Nelson strained his groin and will be out for 1-2 weeks, leaving the Magic very short-handed at guard. Look for JJ to get 20-30 minutes tonight vs Elton and the 76'ers.

miramar
11-26-2008, 10:16 PM
It was good to see both JJ and Elton Brand on the tube. JJ's team came out on top, but Brand had the better game.

I wish SVG would play JJ more, but at the same time it's good to see him coaching again. In Miami VG was so affected by Pat Riley's decision to replace him that he could barely leave his house. I'm glad that experience is behind him.

micah75
11-26-2008, 10:52 PM
I only watched the 2nd half. JJ's teammates do not appear to be willing to feed him when he's wide open. They'd rather make a risky pass into the post, sometimes leading to turnovers. He seems to be on a short leash. Only 2-3 shooting with no 3 pointers. 3-3 from the charity stripe. 7 points, all in the first half. I sort of expected him to get more PT with Jameer Nelson out, but he only got 20 minutes. He got yanked real quick on a dribble turnover while double-teamed towards the end of the game. But at least he was put back in during the closing minute or two during crunch time, which is a good sign.

JBDuke
11-27-2008, 12:17 AM
...He got yanked real quick on a dribble turnover while double-teamed towards the end of the game...

You mean that played when he dribbled from left to right at the top of the key, got bumped twice and then mugged, and then the ball went OOB off his leg? Yeah, I remember that play...

Just after that, Hubie Brown noted that the refs were "letting them play" and that it was "favoring Philly". You can say that again.

godukerocks
11-28-2008, 06:53 AM
JJ had another decent seven points last night, but missed quite a couple of threes, and you could tell his frustration at one point. He did see more action than the Philly game though.

jv001
11-28-2008, 07:58 AM
JJ had another decent seven points last night, but missed quite a couple of threes, and you could tell his frustration at one point. He did see more action than the Philly game though.

JJ looked to be more at ease in this latest game and not pressing. Still his shot was off. The first one went in and out. Maybe thay will start falling soon. The Maryland fans were booing him when he got the ball. They need to get a life. Go Duke!

heyman25
11-28-2008, 08:04 AM
JJ's future in the NBA depends on accurate shooting. His teammates started passing him less because he is unreliable. Nowhere near a Steve Kerr in shooting consistency.5 to's is not a good stat. He needs to improve drastically before Bogans returns.

Bay Area Duke Fan
11-28-2008, 12:10 PM
Five turnovers in 24 minutes is not the way to earn more playing time.

Oriole Way
11-29-2008, 12:56 PM
Mickael Pietrus is out for 3-5 weeks, joining Keith Bogans as players out for a month or longer. Both guys were ahead of J.J. on the depth chart, so J.J. will now be starting and getting the most minutes of his career. If he doesn't show what he can do now, he probably never will (with the Magic).

source (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/basketball/magic/orl-pietrus-out-with-torn-thumb-ligament-112908,0,4527536.story?track=rss)

_Gary
11-29-2008, 02:58 PM
Mickael Pietrus is out for 3-5 weeks, joining Keith Bogans as players out for a month or longer. Both guys were ahead of J.J. on the depth chart, so J.J. will now be starting and getting the most minutes of his career. If he doesn't show what he can do now, he probably never will (with the Magic).

source (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/basketball/magic/orl-pietrus-out-with-torn-thumb-ligament-112908,0,4527536.story?track=rss)

Well, as someone who has harped on JJ needing to get a break - I can't say it any more. If he doesn't produce during the next month then you are 100% correct. His career with the Magic will be over for sure. I personally think he's struggling just a bit with his confidence. He's not hesitating on his shots or anything like that. He's just had a bunch of in and outs in the last week or so. If a few of those will go down JJ can and will be a solid contributor. But those shots he's getting when the ball is rotated and he's wide, wide open have got to fall.

bludvlman
11-29-2008, 06:19 PM
JJ is now an NBA starter :)

lazee
11-29-2008, 09:37 PM
Indiana went small in the 4th quarter with Ford & Jack in the backcourt. SVG ended up going with the rookie Courtney Lee as the SG instead of JJ down the stretch. He played very well on defense. JJ may just have to battle the rookie for minutes for extended minutes. Orlando plays Boston on Monday, and SVG may end up having Lee start to guard Ray Allen.

micah75
11-29-2008, 09:41 PM
Yes, JJ started and played 30 minutes in an Orlando victory over Indiana, 110-96. Unfortunately, JJ only scored 4 points with 1-4 from the field and 1-1 FT.
He was 1-3 behind the arc. 4 assists, 3 turnovers, 2 rebounds, 1 steal, 1 pf.

I didn't see the game, so perhaps he played better than the stats would indicate.

bludvlman
11-30-2008, 12:28 AM
from the few games i've watched it seems that all his misses are shots that rimed out. they simply aren't falling yet and they will. if he is starting or not it doesn't really matter these few weeks b/c he will getting atleast twenty minutes per game with pietrus and bogans out.

heyman25
11-30-2008, 07:18 AM
However if JJ would make the damn open looks,he may have a chance to retain minutes when Bogans is back. He also needs to show the rest of The NBA he can shoot or he may end up like Shav. Making a team, but only playing on rare occasions.This is JJ 's 3rd year , he has minutes to show what he can do in the next 3 or 4 weeks. Making 25% will not excite other teams in the NBA.Rashard Lewis and Hedo Turkuglu are much better 3 pt shooters than JJ. It should not be that way.He needs to be there equal if not better. Orlando goes to Howard mostly, but if JJ can shoot 45% he could become a scoring option. Now he runs around the perimeter watching Howard Turkoglu and Lewis take most of the shots.

KandG
11-30-2008, 11:56 AM
Now he runs around the perimeter watching Howard Turkoglu and Lewis take most of the shots.


And this has been the problem all along with the team JJ plays for -- the forwards are basically bigger shooting guards, and even the point guard (Nelson) isn't much of a playmaker in terms of setting up his teammates.

JJ is thus reduced to sitting around the perimeter or making some token cuts and looking for places he can catch and shoot. I do agree that he needs to make the most of the opportunities he's given and earn greater trust from his teammates -- yesterday, Anthony Johnson was the beneficiary of passes from Howard, and sunk most of his 3s. JJ needs to be able to do the same thing.

Davidson09
11-30-2008, 12:04 PM
Indeed. I saw the game against the Wizards on TV the other night. As a die-hard Wizards fan (don't get me started on this season), it's disappointing to see how little defense we play (outside of Caron Butler). As a JJ fan, I hoped for more of those 6 3 pointers to go in than 1. If you can't do it against the Wizards, it's going to be harder against most other teams.

gvtucker
12-01-2008, 01:50 PM
In watching a bit of JJ's games over the past couple of weeks, it looks to me like he is having a very difficult time adjusting to the speed of the NBA game. That would explain why he's missing open looks that he would ordinarily knock down 75% of the time. If he's not able to adjust to NBA speed, he won't be able shoot in his normal rhythm.

Unfortunately, if that's the case, then there isn't much that JJ can do about it. Players hit that speed wall all the time. The ones that can play at that level adjust very quickly. The ones that don't adjust quickly usually aren't physically able to make the adjustment.

jv001
12-01-2008, 02:06 PM
In watching a bit of JJ's games over the past couple of weeks, it looks to me like he is having a very difficult time adjusting to the speed of the NBA game. That would explain why he's missing open looks that he would ordinarily knock down 75% of the time. If he's not able to adjust to NBA speed, he won't be able shoot in his normal rhythm.

Unfortunately, if that's the case, then there isn't much that JJ can do about it. Players hit that speed wall all the time. The ones that can play at that level adjust very quickly. The ones that don't adjust quickly usually aren't physically able to make the adjustment.

I don't think the speed of the game has anything to do with JJ's shots not falling. He has been wide open on most of them. For what ever reason, he's just not hitting them now. As others have said many have gone in and out and there is nothing he can do about that. His defense has been ok this year compared to his first two years. I think someone put it best when they said there are atleast two other first and second options on the kick out. JJ seems to be the 3rd choice. Let's hope he starts draining some of the 3's. Go Duke!

gvtucker
12-01-2008, 02:21 PM
I don't think the speed of the game has anything to do with JJ's shots not falling. He has been wide open on most of them. For what ever reason, he's just not hitting them now. As others have said many have gone in and out and there is nothing he can do about that. His defense has been ok this year compared to his first two years. I think someone put it best when they said there are atleast two other first and second options on the kick out. JJ seems to be the 3rd choice. Let's hope he starts draining some of the 3's. Go Duke!

You miss my point. He misses wide open jumpers because the game is going too fast. When the game is going too fast, you can't adjust your body to the type of things you can ordinarily do. So thegameisgoingsofastyoucan'tgetyourbearings, and then when a wide open jumper comes, youcan'tslowdown. Even free throws are tougher. I've seen it time and time again.

jv001
12-01-2008, 02:31 PM
You miss my point. He misses wide open jumpers because the game is going too fast. When the game is going too fast, you can't adjust your body to the type of things you can ordinarily do. So thegameisgoingsofastyoucan'tgetyourbearings, and then when a wide open jumper comes, youcan'tslowdown. Even free throws are tougher. I've seen it time and time again.

Understood.

TheBrianZoubekExperience
12-02-2008, 11:29 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-081202

ESPN article about his shooting troubles.

Also, I didn't realize he was such a crowd favorite in Orlando.

dukelifer
12-02-2008, 12:27 PM
You miss my point. He misses wide open jumpers because the game is going too fast. When the game is going too fast, you can't adjust your body to the type of things you can ordinarily do. So thegameisgoingsofastyoucan'tgetyourbearings, and then when a wide open jumper comes, youcan'tslowdown. Even free throws are tougher. I've seen it time and time again.
There is probably some truth to this. JJ is a also rhythm shooter and getting just a few looks and then having to knock them down is easier said than done. He never really gets into a rhythm. I seen games where he hits a shot or two and then no one looks for him for a long time. At Duke and High School- he was fed the ball time and time again. This will not happen in the NBA- unless he morphs into Kobe. Some of this has to be mental as well. Perhaps with time he will adjust or take his game overseas-where he could flourish.

ForeverBlowingBubbles
12-03-2008, 10:19 PM
3 nights of 30 plus minutes and he still has one of the worst PER's in the league.

He's an awesome baller, theres no doubt... but I think he might need to spend some time in Europe or be traded to a contender where he won't so much pressure.

I think Lee just took his starting spot tonight which is not good... not good at all.

CDu
12-03-2008, 10:31 PM
3 nights of 30 plus minutes and he still has one of the worst PER's in the league.

He's an awesome baller, theres no doubt... but I think he might need to spend some time in Europe or be traded to a contender where he won't so much pressure.

I think Lee just took his starting spot tonight which is not good... not good at all.

As many have said, Redick has one "plus" NBA skill: shooting. So far this year, he's not distinguishing himself as a shooter. If he can't distinguish himself as a shooter, he has no place in the NBA. Shooting guards are a dime a dozen in the NBA, and plenty of them can shoot really well AND provide above average skill in other areas.

KandG
12-04-2008, 12:29 AM
Yup, things look bad for J.J. right now (again). 30+ minutes and he can't seem to get more than a handful of shots and points. Lee comes off the bench and gets 19 points in less time. Looks like he and Lee may be switching places soon...thank goodness he has a few more games before the injured guys come back.

heyman25
12-04-2008, 05:13 AM
Lee is in his 1st year and exudes confidence. JJ looks and plays tight as a drum. If he can only score 5 or 6 points a game in the minutes he is now getting,I doubt if he will be tradeable. Europe or Australia Israel are possibilities, but time is running out.

JasonEvans
12-04-2008, 08:59 AM
I am stunned at JJ's struggles now that he is getting real time. It is especially puzzling because whenever JJ has gotten time in the preseason games he has done quite well.

I don't know what to make of this, but I agree that JJ's chances of a meaningful NBA career may be dwindling. How can a guy who was perhaps the greatest shooter in NCAA history be struggling like this at the next level?

--Jason "is Orlando just not giving him the ball in a position to score?" Evans

_Gary
12-04-2008, 09:44 AM
--Jason "is Orlando just not giving him the ball in a position to score?" Evans

That's definitely some of it, Jason. Orlando doesn't do a lot of inside out play so JJ, when his man finally does come off him from time to time, rarely gets a nice kick out from Howard or Turk. Once that ball goes into the paint, a shot is going up a vast majority of the time. And that's really frustrating because on the few occasions when Howard or someone else actually kicks the ball out to JJ and he can shoot it in rhythm he buries it.

But what Heyman said in his post is the absolute truth. For whatever reason, JJ is playing with zero confidence right now. I mean the guy doesn't even want to take a dribble most of the time. He just runs to a corner on offense and stays there. Sometimes he'll come off screens and stuff but it's usually diversionary and he doesn't get the ball. When he does get it, he looks to pass into the post 90% of the time. The poor guy just has no confidence right now at all. And I believe the other players around him know it and they aren't passing him the ball like they will to Lee. And yes, Lee is playing with a ton of confidence. It's really a fascinating look at sports psychology playing out right now between the two of them. The guy that should have all the confidence in the world (JJ) has none right now, and the guy that should be nervous is anything but. And he's going to be rewarded for it and JJ is going to end up way at the back of the bus when the injured players get healthy unless he has a couple of break out games - immediately!

I think JJ's only chance in this league is if he moves to a different team and gets a fresh start. I honestly believe he's not comfortable playing for SVG, and I can't blame him. I know he feels like if he makes one mistake he'll get yanked right away, and that's a terrible way to have to try and play. It really is a psychological battle at this point, IMHO.


Gary

zingit
12-05-2008, 09:54 PM
Here's an article (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/orl-sportsmagic05120508dec05,0,888782.story) in the Orlando Sentinel about JJ's struggles. Seems like he's still learning how to fit in the offense. It's got to be such a pain to answer all these questions about his shot when he needs to be focusing on the next play.

I didn't see Orlando's game tonight, but his stat line is not bad: 19 min, 3-5 FG, 1-2 3-pt FG, 2 assists versus 1 turnover and 1 foul. He still got more minutes than Courtney Lee (10), but now that Bogans is back that may decrease.

Edited to add that I was watching the game on gametracker, and his one turnover was a pretty bad one. I think it was right out of a timeout, with 8 seconds left before halftime (and the game was reasonably close), and he traveled. Whoops. Not how you want to end the half.

mgtr
12-05-2008, 09:58 PM
i watched the game tonight, and JJ did well. He was in the right place at the right time. He made some of the shots he needed to make. If he can make his shots on a regular basis, he will get PT. If not, why play him? I am guessing, but I think he is going to end up in Europe. A shame, really.

lkyfool
12-05-2008, 11:47 PM
i agree with dukelifer. as a shooter, you may need a certain amount of touches to really feel it. i suspect JJ may be able to work thru that with time and practice as well. but, for such a prolific scorer, it is quite a change of pace.

heyman25
12-09-2008, 01:17 AM
JJ did not play tonight Lee and Bogans did. He sealed his own fate with lack of scoring production while Bogans was out.

bludvlman
12-09-2008, 01:20 AM
I'd like to see JJ on a contender but I think it maybe best if he went to a bad team where he can be a more important figure in the offense. Hedo never passes him the ball and neither does Dwight. He isn't a focus on the offense which he needs to be. I say send him to a team like Oklahoma City.

heyman25
12-09-2008, 08:44 AM
You may want him to go to Oklahoma City.I know its unfair he isn't a key element in Orlando's offense, however GM's will look at footage of his play.Are they really going to be interested in JJ.He was amazing at Duke,but it will be a huge gamble for another team to take JJ based on what he has accomplished in 3 years at Orlando. Unfortunately Shelden Williams is in a parallel universe.
He is behind Thompson in the PF a rookie at a weak team the Sacramento Kings. Both Shelden and JJ are stumbling. Perhaps they may revive on new clubs, but their underwhelming performances may make them both trying out next year to get on a NBA team..

Lord Ash
12-09-2008, 10:32 AM
J.J.s struggles are, to me, my least favorite Dukie-in-the-NBA story. I SO wanted him to do well on the big stage, and am still convinced he can... while it doesn't have the heartbreak of the JWill story or the Bobby story, it still kills me that it gives ammo to some idiots who think that JJ cannot play in the League.

I hope he gets a shot on another team and lights it up... he definately has the ability!

Oh Canada
12-09-2008, 11:28 AM
Now I'm only coaching high school basketball but I always pride myself in keeping my emotions in check when it comes to players making mistakes in a game.

If they make a bad pass or a turnover I don't want them to see my angst so I will call them over to the sideline and explain what they should have done in place of what they chose.

I'm saying this because if you watch SVG on a regular basis he jumps around and throws his arms up (making an embarrassing scene) after each error.

How can you be comfortable on the court when your coach shows you up with every mistake. I don't have problems with players making mistakes if they're being aggressive. Now, if they do it after they've been instructed not to they'll spend some time sitting beside me but you have to give players some freedom and let them be a little creative without the fear of being yanked.

I feel for JJ because he looks extremely tentative and it has to be directly related to the antics he witnesses out of his peripheral vision!

gvtucker
12-09-2008, 11:37 AM
I am stunned at JJ's struggles now that he is getting real time. It is especially puzzling because whenever JJ has gotten time in the preseason games he has done quite well.

I don't know what to make of this, but I agree that JJ's chances of a meaningful NBA career may be dwindling. How can a guy who was perhaps the greatest shooter in NCAA history be struggling like this at the next level?

--Jason "is Orlando just not giving him the ball in a position to score?" Evans

It isn't all that unusual, Jason. For another example, think of Steve Alford, the go to guy for a national champ. And there are plenty of others. Sometimes players just cannot adjust to the game at a higher level, no matter how much the excel at a lower level. High school All Americans sometimes can't adjust to D-1 ball, either (see "Beard, Joey"). Kids who make All State at the Class A level can't play at all at the AAAA level. It happens.

trinity92
12-09-2008, 12:21 PM
D'Antoni's style might be perfect for JJ, and I'm assuming JJ would be glad to take a pay cut to stay in the league with a chance to play, which would keep the team salary where management wants it for their LeBron gambit.

davekay1971
12-09-2008, 02:31 PM
This is pure speculation. But Lebron has exhibited such an obvious man-crush on Curry, that a team wanting to land him might draft Curry just to help woo King James along. Just thinkin'...but I wouldn't be surprised to see the Knicks grab Curry in the draft whenever he comes out (this year or next) as an obvious "see how much we love you, Lebron, we drafted your boy in the first round!" move. With Duhon looking good at the 1, that would allow Curry his natural spot at the 2 (albeit he'd be a small 2 in the NBA, but that's not unheard of), which would leave "Only Duke-Haters Think He's" Just Jumpers Redick out in the cold. Still, I agree with the general gist of the thread that our boy would do well in a better system.

Highlander
12-09-2008, 03:43 PM
This is pure speculation. But Lebron has exhibited such an obvious man-crush on Curry, that a team wanting to land him might draft Curry just to help woo King James along. Just thinkin'...but I wouldn't be surprised to see the Knicks grab Curry in the draft whenever he comes out (this year or next) as an obvious "see how much we love you, Lebron, we drafted your boy in the first round!" move. With Duhon looking good at the 1, that would allow Curry his natural spot at the 2 (albeit he'd be a small 2 in the NBA, but that's not unheard of), which would leave "Only Duke-Haters Think He's" Just Jumpers Redick out in the cold. Still, I agree with the general gist of the thread that our boy would do well in a better system.

This scenario is so far beyond speculation that speculation changed its name to facts in protest. I lost count of all the hypotheticals, but I did enjoy the post :)

davekay1971
12-09-2008, 04:03 PM
This scenario is so far beyond speculation that speculation changed its name to facts in protest. I lost count of all the hypotheticals, but I did enjoy the post :)

I haven't begun to warm up my hypotheticals yet. I mean, what if, while J.J. was getting his next biblical tatt, he was injected with radioactive ink and got super powers...:eek:

JasonEvans
12-09-2008, 05:51 PM
It isn't all that unusual, Jason. For another example, think of Steve Alford, the go to guy for a national champ. And there are plenty of others. Sometimes players just cannot adjust to the game at a higher level, no matter how much the excel at a lower level. High school All Americans sometimes can't adjust to D-1 ball, either (see "Beard, Joey"). Kids who make All State at the Class A level can't play at all at the AAAA level. It happens.

I am very aware of that GV and I would chalk it up to a kid being unable to do at the next level what he did at a lower one...

...but there is the preseason thing to consider. While the preseason games include some lesser players who are never going to earn a lasting NBA paycheck, there majority of guys in those games are legit NBA players. It is a big step up from summer league ball and JJ has done quite well in his preseason appearances for Orlando.

That is why I figured he would do well when he wa given decent minutes and that is why I am so confused as to his struggles this season.

--Jason "sigh-- it will be interesting to see if JJ can do it somewhere else next year because I cannot imagine he will stay in Orlando" Evans

Lord Ash
12-09-2008, 10:23 PM
I think JJ can definately stick in the league. I think he has had a rash of bad luck, mixed with not really getting the chance.

_Gary
12-09-2008, 10:38 PM
I think JJ can definately stick in the league. I think he has had a rash of bad luck, mixed with not really getting the chance.

I've seen JJ play enough over the last couple of seasons to believe he can stick in this league, and even be a solid bench scorer and contributor. Not sure about a starter, but certainly a solid role guy coming in and playing 20 minutes a game. Maybe along the lines of a Vinny Johnson type (not in style of play, but in quality scoring minutes). He's not that bad a defender any more. Not great, but certainly improved. He's not a bad dribbler. Not great, but improved. And he absolutely can hit shots from all over - IF - he's given the chance and doesn't play scared. That's what he's done with Orlando this year, IMHO. I'm so sure of that appraisal that I'd bet Jason's house on it. :D


Gary

yancem
12-09-2008, 11:35 PM
I am very aware of that GV and I would chalk it up to a kid being unable to do at the next level what he did at a lower one...

...but there is the preseason thing to consider. While the preseason games include some lesser players who are never going to earn a lasting NBA paycheck, there majority of guys in those games are legit NBA players. It is a big step up from summer league ball and JJ has done quite well in his preseason appearances for Orlando.

That is why I figured he would do well when he wa given decent minutes and that is why I am so confused as to his struggles this season.

--Jason "sigh-- it will be interesting to see if JJ can do it somewhere else next year because I cannot imagine he will stay in Orlando" Evans

At this point I think JJ's difficulties are 1 part psychological and 1 part playing on a team that either doesn't trust him or simply doesn't think he can play. I got a chance to watch a couple of his last couple of games and no one seemed to want to pass to him and the few times he did touch the ball he seemed to want to pass it like it was a hot potato. I'm hoping he can get a change of scenery because at this point it may take a miracle for him to make it in Orlando.

tommy
12-09-2008, 11:37 PM
Definitely seems like he's done in Orlando. Last night Bogans, Nelson, and Lee were all back and JJ didn't get in at all. Had he made any kind of impression while Nelson and Bogans were hurt, he'd have stayed in the rotation. The DNP is about a clear a sign as can be that it's not going to happen in Orlando. Unfortunately, I don't think anyone can say he never got a fair chance. The guys in front of him were hurt, he got a great chance to prove what he could do in real game situations over a few weeks, and his shot failed him just when he most needed it to go down.

I agree he can be a valuable player in the league in the right situation, but it's not going to be in Orlando.

wisteria
12-10-2008, 12:09 AM
The knicks could use a shooter right now. They are shooting a TON of 3s in the new system, and they just don't have a decent shooter. And it's not like their coach focuses on D.... Don't think it'll happen though. The magic needs a back-up point guard, which is non-existent in NY.

Billy Dat
12-10-2008, 06:48 AM
As a Knick fan, it has been a pleasure watching Duhon run the attack and hit guys spotting up for open 3 after open 3. It's really too bad that JJ isn't up here right now because the Knicks are under-manned, play no defense, and jack up 3s like they are going out of style.

That being said, the NBA doesn't provide many windows to prove yourself like the one he just got. Sadly, he failed. The Orlando thing is probably done. It really sucks that they picked up his option - not for him financially because it means a lot more guaranteed money - but for his ability to try and find a better situation. The true indication of how the league views him will come when we see who pursues him - the widely considered sages of the league (e.g. Buford and Pop in San Antonio, et al.) or the front office half wits (e.g. #23 in Charlotte).

davekay1971
12-10-2008, 09:10 AM
As a Knick fan, it has been a pleasure watching Duhon run the attack and hit guys spotting up for open 3 after open 3. It's really too bad that JJ isn't up here right now because the Knicks are under-manned, play no defense, and jack up 3s like they are going out of style.

That being said, the NBA doesn't provide many windows to prove yourself like the one he just got. Sadly, he failed. The Orlando thing is probably done. It really sucks that they picked up his option - not for him financially because it means a lot more guaranteed money - but for his ability to try and find a better situation. The true indication of how the league views him will come when we see who pursues him - the widely considered sages of the league (e.g. Buford and Pop in San Antonio, et al.) or the front office half wits (e.g. #23 in Charlotte).

Don't worry...the half wits in Chapel Hill West Bobcats front office probably won't inflict themselves on JJ...he's a Dukie. They prefer to pander to the local Tarhole fans by paying Sean Mays to sit at the end of the bench mainlining chili dogs. I think JJ is safe from the torment of joining that sinking ship.

KandG
12-11-2008, 01:13 PM
Don't worry...the half wits in Chapel Hill West Bobcats front office probably won't inflict themselves on JJ...he's a Dukie. They prefer to pander to the local Tarhole fans by paying Sean Mays to sit at the end of the bench mainlining chili dogs. I think JJ is safe from the torment of joining that sinking ship.



For a humorous and all too true take on how bad and UNC-obsessed the Bobcats braintrust is, I thought this was a great read (http://hardwoodparoxysm.blogspot.com/2008/12/nba-wisdom-from-my-dad.html).

ForeverBlowingBubbles
12-13-2008, 03:19 AM
if JJ isn't traded this season - we might very well see him in Europe.

Courtney Lee is getting a ton of minutes and shooting extremely poorly - but still earning those minutes.

After watching the last 3 games - I'm not so sure Courtney Lee is actually Orlando's best on-ball defender either (as Stan states). He looks like he gets beat just as much as anyone on the perimiter - but he just looks extermely spastic with his movements and kind of reminds me of Tweak off Southpark.

He still has a far worse +/- then Redick (-19.5 to -5.7) and is now getting ALL of the minutes.

CameronBornAndBred
12-13-2008, 03:38 AM
For a humorous and all too true take on how bad and UNC-obsessed the Bobcats braintrust is, I thought this was a great read (http://hardwoodparoxysm.blogspot.com/2008/12/nba-wisdom-from-my-dad.html).
Besides the fact that JJ is a Dukie, the Bobcats already have Morrison, so I can't see them having both at once. As for that story, that's hilarious. I hope that guy's dad is right and they DO take Hansblah. Put enough Holes in one boat and it's guaranteed to sink.

heyman25
12-13-2008, 03:45 AM
Only about 60 games left at Orlando. He should have his agent make a reel that shows only his shots going in and start pitching to every GM in the NBA.Maybe D'Antoni because of his relationship with K and Chris Duhon, can try him out next season. The Knicks are attemting to free all their salary money for the LeBron 2010 free agency.If he is tradeable it will take all the planets and stars being aligned, because JJ's moments on the court this season have been unmemorable.

Devilsfan
12-13-2008, 09:37 AM
It would be nice to see him play on a team that would occasionally pass to him when he's on the court.

dukelifer
12-13-2008, 11:00 AM
It isn't all that unusual, Jason. For another example, think of Steve Alford, the go to guy for a national champ. And there are plenty of others. Sometimes players just cannot adjust to the game at a higher level, no matter how much the excel at a lower level. High school All Americans sometimes can't adjust to D-1 ball, either (see "Beard, Joey"). Kids who make All State at the Class A level can't play at all at the AAAA level. It happens.

We also have to consider the enormous pressure he is putting on himself to succeed. He knows everyone thinks he will be a bust and in his few moments where he has had a shot - things have not gone as well as he would have liked. Confidence is a huge part of sports. The NBA is not an easy adjustment - the travel the boredom the fact that many games don't really matter until the end- and as you say - some can do it and some cannot. JJ may be better off going overseas and building his game up and get his confidence back. I have no doubt he can succeed there. But he could end up on another roster and who knows what a change may do. A number of folks were ready to count Duhon out in Chicago last year and now he is one of the hottest point guards in the league. That can happen as well.

KandG
12-13-2008, 01:35 PM
But he could end up on another roster and who knows what a change may do. A number of folks were ready to count Duhon out in Chicago last year and now he is one of the hottest point guards in the league. That can happen as well.


Duhon had his moments in Chicago, though, and was given ample opportunities to play -- his issue was that he was jerked around by the coaches who kept vacillating between Ben Gordon's offense and his defense and playmaking. JJ, on the other hand, has gotten some burn, but not nearly enough for other teams to feel comfortable taking a gamble.

With that said (and I may have said this before), if Steve Novak can find room on an NBA roster, there has to be a spot for JJ.

JJ right now is so far down the depth chart at Orlando it isn't funny, though. Howard gets hurt last night in a game against the Suns, and pretty much everyone comes off the bench except JJ, in a wide open game with lots of threes.

KandG
12-14-2008, 11:29 AM
JJ got some burn last night in Orlando's game against the Jazz, with Howard hurt and the team playing the second of a back to back. It was painful to watch though -- JJ was clearly trying to be aggressive, but no one was passing the ball to him. On one sequence on a fast break, JJ was wide open under the basket and Jameer Nelson never even saw him. Van Gundy might have said something, because on a subsequent fast break, Nelson made a more difficult cross court pass in transition and JJ got a two point jumper.

In general though, the worst sequence of the game for the Magic without Howard was when JJ was in the game -- tough matchup for JJ against CJ Miles of the Jazz, plus none of his teammates were making any shots. I don't get the impression Nelson or Turkoglu or Lewis like having JJ on the floor with them -- and like it or not, Bogans gives them a much better defensive profile. In the second half without JJ, the Magic made a huge run and ended up winning the game.

The most painful thing to watch last night was Shelden getting garbage time on the Kings against the Knicks, with Candace in the audience. Shelden plays hard, but his game on the Kings seems all wrong for the NBA now -- I'm not sure what's going on with him.

_Gary
12-14-2008, 03:58 PM
It was painful to watch though -- JJ was clearly trying to be aggressive, but no one was passing the ball to him... I don't get the impression Nelson or Turkoglu or Lewis like having JJ on the floor with them...

This has been my impressions from watching many Magic games this year as well. Don't get me wrong with what I'm about to say. JJ has made his own bed by not hitting shots when he's been in games this season. BUT... His teammates do not look for him and there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that he's the least liked guy on his team. I don't think it's really all his fault. He's not been treated well by either head coach in my opinion, but because he made so much noise last year about wanting to be traded I imagine there just isn't a lot of love for him in the locker room. Still, these are professionals and to see some of the guys not pass the ball to a wide open JJ this season has been painful and it's difficult to believe there's not at least a little subconscious attitude involved with some of the players against JJ.

Bottom line - JJ must have a fresh start in a different location if he's going to make a go of it in the NBA. He has no chance in Orlando at this point, IMHO.

heyman25
12-14-2008, 06:48 PM
I agree Gary, but because of his underwhelming play when he is in the game he is between a rock and a hard place. Orlando might trade him if there is a position they need for their depth chart. Anywhere would be better for his longevity in the NBA than Orlando,but Orlando is one of the better teams in the East.At least if nothing happens they are a guaranteed playoff team.

heyman25
12-16-2008, 05:44 AM
Look at JJ's stats and look at rookie Courtney Lee.
http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=281215009

_Gary
12-16-2008, 09:38 AM
Look at JJ's stats and look at rookie Courtney Lee.
http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=281215009

Sometimes the stars just aren't aligned for you. I remember Dunleavy and his struggles with the Warriors. His confidence was completely shattered by that blunder-head of a coach they had at the time - an idiot who put Mike in for one play at the end of the first half of his first pro game with his parents in the stands. It killed the guy's confidence and he was no good for the entire year (not that the coach ever really gave him a solid chance that first year). JJ saw much of the same under the previous Magic coach, also a blunder-head.

Mike also had the misfortune of having to fight for playing time with a player or two who magically caught fire when you knew they weren't that good and were just playing over their head. I believe his name was Brian Cardinal (although I may be thinking of someone else). The guy just went nuts with the Warriors and it definitely limited Dun's time on the court. Yet when Cardinal left the Warriors he dropped back off to being the limited, small role player he should have always been. He just happened to hit on a major streak at the same time Mike was trying to get minutes at Golden State. Same thing is happening with JJ in Orlando as best I can tell. Last year (or maybe the year previous) Keith Bogans suddenly developed an outside shot. Any one that has followed him knows that was never his strength. Fact is, it was his major weakness. Yet when JJ is trying to crack the rotation he found himself matched up with a guy that suddenly started channeling Larry Bird with his 3 point shot. It was maddening to watch. And now, we've got this rookie Lee who's playing crazy good and once again JJ is sitting on the bench.

Like I said earlier, don't get me wrong: part of this is JJ's own fault. But I can't help but believe that this is just plain old bad luck, along with a unhealthy dose of lack of confidence thrown in for good measure. JJ is better than he's shown us this year. He really is. But he just needs a change of scenery. That's what Mike needed and it made a big difference for him. I hope JJ get's one more shot with another team. I can't help but think it would make a big difference.

Just my two cents.

Gary

zingit
12-17-2008, 02:41 AM
Here's an interesting trade rumor: JJ for Grant Hill (http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_magic/2008/12/can-magic-pull.html). I doubt that this will happen though. Hasn't Grant been booed in Orlando?

lmb
12-17-2008, 01:23 PM
I want J.J. in Philly. We need a 3-point shooter!!

mgtr
12-17-2008, 02:33 PM
I want J.J. in Philly. We need a 3-point shooter!!

You probably need a 3-point maker, and, sadly, JJ has not been able to do that too much this year. True, he doesn't get the ball in the best spots, but he still has to make them.

Lord Ash
12-17-2008, 02:55 PM
Methinks a career as one of the great 3 point shooters maybe says more for a guys ability than a few spotty, coach-watching-over-your-shoulder games with a team where no one passes you the ball, no?

jv001
12-17-2008, 03:20 PM
Methinks a career as one of the great 3 point shooters maybe says more for a guys ability than a few spotty, coach-watching-over-your-shoulder games with a team where no one passes you the ball, no?

Lord Ash, you are correct you don't go from being the best shooter in college bb to a 25% 3pt shooter in the pros unless something beneath the surface is there. A trade to a team that needs 3 point shooting will be the fresh start JJ needs. Go Duke!

mgtr
12-17-2008, 07:01 PM
Well, against the Warriors (not too rough a competition), JJ scored 14 points on 4-5 3 point shooting. Maybe he got VanGundy's attention. Way to go JJ.

huied
12-17-2008, 10:36 PM
Well, against the Warriors (not too rough a competition), JJ scored 14 points on 4-5 3 point shooting. Maybe he got VanGundy's attention. Way to go JJ.

When did this happen? I'm trying to find those stats in the box score but all I see is that he was 1-1 with two missed FTs. Am I missing something here? :confused:

RainingThrees
12-17-2008, 10:40 PM
Article on JJ and all the crap he took while at Duke. This is kind of a response to an article about the hate that Hansbrough gets, which is mostly made up by UNC fans wanting to look like they are hated while they are the most popular team in the nation as of now.


http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3774980

mgtr
12-18-2008, 08:29 AM
When did this happen? I'm trying to find those stats in the box score but all I see is that he was 1-1 with two missed FTs. Am I missing something here? :confused:

They played Monday night. Check the GS Warriors site, that is where I saw it.

Oriole Way
12-18-2008, 08:37 AM
They played Monday night. Check the GS Warriors site, that is where I saw it.

Website is incorrect, if that's the case. J.J. did not score 14 points against the Warriors, huied saw the correct box, in which he scored 2 points.

RainingThrees
01-01-2009, 06:11 PM
JJ got 20 min. and had 7 points on 3 of 6 shooting.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=281231004

ricks68
01-01-2009, 06:22 PM
He made the highlight reel on SportsCenter at around 1:00 am CST partly as an unusual player for Orlano to be playing. He missed a three, a team mate got the rebound and passed it back to him for a good three, and then they had a pass to him after a steal for a lay-in.

ricks

RainingThrees
01-01-2009, 06:26 PM
Sweet now if only he could dunk on someone. Like Shaq maybe, that might get the #1 play.

huied
01-02-2009, 08:27 AM
Don't look now, but JJ seems to have himself another shot. Peitrus has broken his wrist and is now out indefinitely. It's unfortunate that we have to rely on injuries, but JJ has to make the most of this opportunity.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3802519

_Gary
01-02-2009, 10:09 AM
Don't look now, but JJ seems to have himself another shot. Peitrus has broken his wrist and is now out indefinitely. It's unfortunate that we have to rely on injuries, but JJ has to make the most of this opportunity.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3802519

Eh. It might help a tad, but I think we'd need to see Bogans or Lee to be out for a length of time in order for JJ to get any serious minutes. As long as SVG has those two at his disposal, I'm fearful JJ will still only be seeing limited action in competitive games. Peitrus alone being gone isn't going to cut it I'm afraid.

Gary

mike88
01-02-2009, 10:58 AM
January is going to be a tough month for the Magic - they have a number of tough opponents including a pretty brutal West Coast road trip. Not having Pietrus will hurt- he was playing great before his (first) injury.

I agree with Gary that JJ will probably not get the majority of the minutes that will be available from Pietrus' injury- they have been using Courtney Lee much more lately, and he has had some very good performances (albeit alot of rookie mistakes, too). Keith Bogans has not been playing as well lately as he was earlier in the season, which may open up some time for JJ- we will see. SVG really likes to ride his starters.

The Magic are a little unusual in that the "2" guard (Bogans, Pietrus, JJ) plays a pretty limited role (Mainly setting up in the off-side corner for threes). Partly, this is because both Lewis and Hedo bring "2" guard skills to the forward positions, and the Magic (rightly, I think) run their offense through them and through Dwight Howard. I don't think that will change anytime soon.

JasonEvans
01-03-2009, 10:10 AM
I agree with Gary that JJ will probably not get the majority of the minutes that will be available from Pietrus' injury- they have been using Courtney Lee much more lately, and he has had some very good performances (albeit alot of rookie mistakes, too). Keith Bogans has not been playing as well lately as he was earlier in the season, which may open up some time for JJ- we will see. SVG really likes to ride his starters.


Last night JJ got the dreaded DNP-CD.

Bogans played 20 mins and Lee had 28.

--Jason "it has been said many times... JJ needs a new home" Evans

mike88
01-03-2009, 11:18 AM
Last night's game was a good example of why it is going to be hard for JJ to get playing time, and not just in Orlando. He would have been matched against D Wade, who was absolutely unstoppable for the first three quarters. Fortunately for the Magic, Wade started to miss near the end of third, about the time SVG brought in Courtney Lee. Whether it was Lee's defense or just Wade getting tired, it made a big difference down the stretch, and the Magic were able to pull out a win.

Defending the 2-guard spot in the NBA is tough pretty much every night, and while JJ is clearly playing better defense this year, he has some pretty tough match-ups at that position.

gvtucker
01-03-2009, 12:00 PM
Lord Ash, you are correct you don't go from being the best shooter in college bb to a 25% 3pt shooter in the pros unless something beneath the surface is there.

It happens all the time, there doesn't have to be anything beneath the surface. I can't say this enough, JJ is having difficulty adjusting to the speed of the game. And it is quite possible that he can't adjust to the speed of the game.

OZZIE4DUKE
01-03-2009, 07:04 PM
Defending the 2-guard spot in the NBA is tough pretty much every night, and while JJ is clearly playing better defense this year, he has some pretty tough match-ups at that position.

If JJ was shooting well, wouldn't it be tough for the other 2-guard to guard him as well? Of course it would. The object is to score more points than the other team does after 48 minutes. Scoring 3 at a time 10 times a game is a good way to do that.

mgtr
01-03-2009, 11:50 PM
JJ is in a fairly large city (well, large by my standards), and he should be able to easily get a contract on Lee and maybe even Bogans (though one would be sufficient). What was the name of the guy who disabled Nancy Kerrigan? Assuming he is not tied up, so to speak, he might be available. However, I doubt that either Lee or Bogans would scream as effectively as Nancy Kerrigan.
Mods, before you jump all over me, this is all meant to be tongue in cheek (is there a smilie for that?) I don't favor brute force used on anyone (certainly not me!).

mike88
01-04-2009, 10:44 PM
JJ got some important minutes today vs. the Raptors. SVG brought him in during the third quarter when the Magic were down and he was able to nail a couple of threes. He ended up playing all of the fourth quarter, and acquitted hinself pretty well (8 points, 3 rebounds in 18 minutes), although he missed a pretty good look at a three at the end that would have tied the game. On defense, he guarded Jason Kapono and did pretty well (aside from one lapse) but could not stop Anthony Parker, who went 13-16 from the floor.

It will be interesting to see if JJ gains more time in the rotation - SVG was not real happy with Keith Bogans' defense today. The Magic's three games this week are vs Washington, then a home and home with the Hawks, who beat the Magic pretty badly at the beginning of the season and who are playing great ball right now.

Oriole Way
01-05-2009, 01:25 AM
JJ got some important minutes today vs. the Raptors. SVG brought him in during the third quarter when the Magic were down and he was able to nail a couple of threes. He ended up playing all of the fourth quarter, and acquitted hinself pretty well (8 points, 3 rebounds in 18 minutes), although he missed a pretty good look at a three at the end that would have tied the game. On defense, he guarded Jason Kapono and did pretty well (aside from one lapse) but could not stop Anthony Parker, who went 13-16 from the floor.

It will be interesting to see if JJ gains more time in the rotation - SVG was not real happy with Keith Bogans' defense today. The Magic's three games this week are vs Washington, then a home and home with the Hawks, who beat the Magic pretty badly at the beginning of the season and who are playing great ball right now.

It was very surprising to see Van Gundy go to J.J. today at all, even more so to give him extended minutes and leave him on the floor for the stretch run in the 4th quarter. It is important to note that Van Gundy stuck with him even thought he started out shooting slow from the field. It worked, as J.J. played pretty well on both sides of the ball.

I'm not sure if it was mostly Bogans playing poorly or what, but Lee has been getting a steady diet of minutes, and he wasn't used either. It will be very interesting to see if J.J. will get some more PT going forward, or if it was just an isolated hunch played by Stan.

dukelifer
01-07-2009, 09:55 PM
JJ has now had three straight decent games in a row, 8, 8 and tonight 11pt in 20 minutes of play and the team is 2-1 in that stretch. If he can continue that sort of consistent play- he will get time.

mike88
01-07-2009, 10:41 PM
I didn't see tonight's game vs the Hawks b/c I was at Cameron, but in last night's win vs. the Wizards, JJ looked (for the first time this year) like he had his confidence back. He hit a couple of JJ-range 3's and played good defense. It is great to see from the box score that he was able to carry it over in tonight's win at Atlanta, which was a big game for the Magic. Keith Bogans did not play in the last two games b/c of an ankle sprain- I don't know how long he is expected to be out, but Courtney Lee and JJ are doing a pretty good job in Bogans' and Pietrus' absence.

Duke79UNLV77
01-07-2009, 10:50 PM
he's 5 for his last 8 on 3's and is shooting 43% for the year on 3's after his horrendous 0 for 10 start.

RainingThrees
01-07-2009, 11:00 PM
Good night for JJ. In other news Maggette already has 10 on 5/6 in the 1st quarter against tha Lakers and....Dunleavy has returned!! He has 12 in 15 min. Grant Hill has 15 against the Pacers who are winning early in the 4th.

huied
01-07-2009, 11:04 PM
Not sure how many times it's happened before, but JJ made the ESPN highlight recap tonight. Nice to see the man hit a 3!

_Gary
01-09-2009, 07:45 PM
After we jinxed Chris last night I'm hesitant to say anything... A certain player for the Magic has put up 11 in the 1st quarter. That is all. But hopefully that is not all (if you get my drift).

Gary

bludvlman
01-09-2009, 07:46 PM
After we jinxed Chris last night I'm hesitant to say anything... A certain player for the Magic has put up 11 in the 1st quarter. That is all. But hopefully that is not all (if you get my drift).

Gary


in only 3 minutes of the first quarter.

mike88
01-09-2009, 07:50 PM
JJ came off the bench, went 3-3 in 3-pt field goals, and had 11 total points in the first quarter vs the Hawks tonight. Each one of his threes came from deep and I don't think he has touched the rim yet. It is great to see him getting his confidence back!

They showed an interview with him from earlier today where he spoke about resolving to keep a positive attitude this year regardless of whether he was starting or coming off the bench. Stan Van Gundy has also been very complimentary of how JJ has persevered in the face of erratic opportunities. Maybe things will work out for him in Orlando after all . . .

CameronBornAndBred
01-09-2009, 07:56 PM
On NBA channel or national?

CameronBornAndBred
01-09-2009, 08:03 PM
595

Hope it continues. He's finding his confidence.

mike88
01-09-2009, 09:52 PM
JJ finished with 15 points and 4 rebounds in 20 minutes of action. The Magic beat the Hawks so badly (they were up 40 most of the second half) that SVG emptied the bench and neither the starters nor JJ played much in the second half.

The Magic now have a tough West Coast swing beginning Sunday night at San Antonio. I hope JJ can continue his good play, as the Magic will need a great effort against the Spurs, who have won 4 straight.

wisteria
01-09-2009, 10:04 PM
Actually he got 17. Stupid ESPN/NBA credited his 2pt drive/layup to another magic player. I was counting!! Good thing CBS got it right. :o

Duke79UNLV77
01-09-2009, 10:34 PM
43% since his 0-10 cold spell to start the year. hope he keeps getting time. a shooter's got to shoot.

ldavid1
01-10-2009, 09:03 AM
I know it will never happen(hope I'm wrong) but what do you think JJ would do if he were given30+ minutes a game and complete confidence from SVG? Can he really play in the NBA and be a major factor? Who knows, but I would sure like to see him given a chance.

I don't subscribe to any NBA premium channels so I don't get to see JJ play much, but when I have it appears he stands alot in the corners and doesn't get the looks from his teammates that he should. Can anyone comment on that??
THANKS

DukieInBrasil
01-10-2009, 09:11 AM
JJs on fire!!! Great game last night in a huge blow-out of the Hawks, that used to not be big news, but the Hawks are pretty good so far. He´s brought his numbers right up to his career averages in shooting, except FTs. As his shooting has been good he gets minutes, seems to be a direct corelation. Kind of a which came first... scenario.
In other former Duke player news: Dunleavy has had 2 very nice games since he returned. Hardly anyone has mentioned this but, after a very slow start, Grant Hill has been playing very good ball out in Phoenix lately.

mike88
01-10-2009, 09:38 AM
I know it will never happen(hope I'm wrong) but what do you think JJ would do if he were given30+ minutes a game and complete confidence from SVG? Can he really play in the NBA and be a major factor? Who knows, but I would sure like to see him given a chance.

I don't subscribe to any NBA premium channels so I don't get to see JJ play much, but when I have it appears he stands alot in the corners and doesn't get the looks from his teammates that he should. Can anyone comment on that??
THANKS

The Magic's offense is (appropriately) built around Dwight Howard, and takes advantage of Rashard Lewis' and Hedo Turkoglu's versatility, including their strong 3 point shooting. This year, they have successfully integrated Jameer Nelson's skills, who is playing great basketball. Partly as a consequence, the 2-guard's role in the offense is pretty limited - this is not just the case for JJ, but Bogans and (to a lesser extent) Pietrus and Lee, too. Fortunately, what they ask the 2 guard to do is spot and shot threes, which is well within JJ's skill set!

This is less true when the "second unit" is in the game, but they still run basically the same offense.

In terms of your first question, I don't think JJ brings good enough defense to earn 30 minutes a game on the current Magic team, particularly one Pietrus is back. Realistically, if he can continue to give them 15-20 minutes a night and 10 points a game, I would be very happy.

DukeFanInTerpLand
01-10-2009, 10:28 AM
Here are some good highlights of the Atlanta game. Shows all of Redick's 3's.

NBA.com link (http://www.nba.com/video/games/magic/2009/01/09/nba_atl_orl_0020800528_recap.nba/index.html?ls=gt1hp0020800528)

Devilsfan
01-10-2009, 10:37 AM
Way to go JJ! Maybe Stan of "Laurel and Hardy " fame will start giving you more PT.

Cameron
01-10-2009, 11:33 AM
Watching JJ's classic post shot pose gives me chills. Legendary.

BobbyFan
01-10-2009, 11:33 AM
Realistically, if he can continue to give them 15-20 minutes a night and 10 points a game, I would be very happy.

So would the Magic.

Lord Ash
01-10-2009, 11:43 AM
Three thoughts;

1) Damn, it is good to see JJ again.

2) Man, NBA teams are GOOD.

3) The 24 second shot clock is the anti-Christ.

hughesmiester
01-10-2009, 02:06 PM
"What GM Danny Ainge wants is a shooter off the bench, but he’s struggling to find one. League sources say he made a bid for the Orlando Magic’s J.J. Redick recently, a guard he’s long coveted, but an offer of J.R. Giddens and Gabe Pruitt couldn’t come close to prying Redick. What’s more, Orlando isn’t motivated to fortify the Celtics. Suddenly, the Magic believe they can beat Boston. League executives say Ainge has become more persistent this week in searching out deals, but as a Western Conference executive said, "He just doesn’t have any players that anyone wants."

Link: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Ag19E1eylUfpXmu9OSJWXg.8vLYF?slug=aw-celtics011009&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

As a big Celtics and Duke fan, I'd go nuts if the C's could get JJ. He is EXACTLY what they could use right now, as Eddie House has been awful, but I doubt it happens as the Magic are playing too good to trade with the C's.

dukelifer
01-11-2009, 11:02 PM
Did not see it but JJ played 29 minutes- in at crunch time- hit a cluch 3 to put Orlando up against the Spurs (at San Antonio) with 2:33 left and Orlando never trailed after that. That will get you love from a coach.

Billy Dat
01-11-2009, 11:08 PM
Did not see it but JJ played 29 minutes- in at crunch time- hit a cluch 3 to put Orlando up against the Spurs (at San Antonio) with 2:33 left and Orlando never trailed after that. That will get you love from a coach.

Just saw this stat line, too. JJ may have finally FINALLY broken through. Fingers crossed...but this was a big time game between two of the top 6 teams in the NBA right now.

Duke79UNLV77
01-11-2009, 11:15 PM
46.9% since starting the year 0-10. en fuego!

Oriole Way
01-11-2009, 11:18 PM
For the first time in his career, J.J. looks like the player he was at Duke. He's flying off off screens and nailing those pretty 3's with men in his face. He's been on the floor in crunch time in the fourth quarter for the past 3 or 4 games. I think he will finally break through as long as he keeps nailing a few threes and if he can stay healthy.

mike88
01-11-2009, 11:21 PM
Did not see it but JJ played 29 minutes- in at crunch time- hit a cluch 3 to put Orlando up against the Spurs (at San Antonio) with 2:33 left and Orlando never trailed after that. That will get you love from a coach.

JJ played well again tonight- he hit 4-6 from 3 point range and played most of the second half. His last three was key, and his defense was good, although he had a couple of miscues down the stretch that fortunately didn't turn into SA points. He is playing VERY hard- and looks like he is having fun, too!

This was a huge win for the Magic. They have LA, Sacto, Denver, and then home against Boston, so they were fortunate to get off to a good start on the road.

mgtr
01-11-2009, 11:29 PM
I agree that JJ played well tonight. He hit the critical shots, and played OK defense. He always seems to know where to be on the floor, and the other players don't hesitate to pass it him. Perhaps he is being accepted.

ForeverBlowingBubbles
01-11-2009, 11:31 PM
I'm so pumped with the way JJ has been playing lately. I'm glad he's been given the opportunity to play through a few mistakes (4 turnovers tonight but still second highest +/- on the team). He's showing he belongs.

His 3% is now even with his career %. He looks like he's found a groove!

zingit
01-13-2009, 07:18 PM
Praise for JJ: http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_magic/2009/01/this-is-what-ma.html. Hope it keeps up tonight against Sacramento!

Cell-R
01-13-2009, 09:08 PM
This is a pretty exciting development! :D Hopefully he plays well tonight also!

_Gary
01-13-2009, 11:09 PM
This is a pretty exciting development! :D Hopefully he plays well tonight also!

He is! The first half hasn't quite ended and I believe JJ is 4 of 5 from downtown. And they are all pure too. Very nice to see him playing with confidence!!

Cell-R
01-13-2009, 11:15 PM
He is! The first half hasn't quite ended and I believe JJ is 4 of 5 from downtown. And they are all pure too. Very nice to see him playing with confidence!!

Awesome!!!

Is there any way to watch it on the computer?
I don't think I get the channel his game is on right now... :(

Cell-R
01-13-2009, 11:16 PM
Wow... 4 for 5 in only 11 minutes of play in the first half...

Give this guy some more time!

Min FG 3PT FT
19.6 20-32 15-21 3-4 0.4 0.0 1.6 1.8 0.0 1.6 1.6 0.8 11.6

Numbers for the last 5 games^

What if he got to play for 35-40 minutes?

Lord Ash
01-13-2009, 11:39 PM
The only people who didn't know JJ could do this are Carolina fans and Orlando management. The guy is an all-time great who lit up PLENTY of future NBA players in his college days for 35 and 40 points; that doesn't just GO AWAY.

godukerocks
01-13-2009, 11:50 PM
Redick with an old-fashioned 3-point play, after a hard foul...although after he checked out he went to the locker room; not sure why.

OZZIE4DUKE
01-13-2009, 11:53 PM
Redick with an old-fashioned 3-point play, after a hard foul...although after he checked out he went to the locker room; not sure why.
Pithily I'd say he burned his hot hand, but I sure hope he isn't hurt. The man deserves his shot! Go JJJ! It's time to break out my old sign.

yancem
01-14-2009, 12:14 AM
Maybe the season is turning around for former Duke players in the nba. Not only is JJ getting some minutes and playing well but Dunleavy is back and already putting up big numbers. Hill is quietly coming on as well. Now if we can only get Brand and Boozer healthy and back up to speed and for Deng to get back on track.

tommy
01-14-2009, 12:26 AM
JJ has 15 tonight in 25 minutes of action (a few minutes to go in the blowout of the Kings). 5 of 9 shooting, including 4 of 7 on 3-pointers. And Lee only got 14 minutes and Bogans 23, and it is those two guys who are in in garbage time right now, not JJ.

RainingThrees
01-14-2009, 08:32 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/photos?photoId=2122494&gameId=290113023

Does this picture look familiar at all?

CameronBornAndBred
01-14-2009, 08:40 AM
From a FOXSports article (http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/9076868/Magic-break-NBA-record-with-23-treys) on how the Magic set a 3 pointer record last night...this was in the Notes section.

"Redick connected on four 3-pointers in the first half and two fans in the lower level repeatedly stood and chanted his name after each basket. "

Sounds like two past Crazies might have been in attendance.

jacone21
01-14-2009, 08:54 AM
....
Sounds like two past Crazies might have been in attendance.

Unless they were Maryland grads chanting FU JJ! :D

jv001
01-14-2009, 09:43 AM
Well for those that said the NBA game was too fast for JJ, I have to say JJ must have gotten faster or the other players have slowed down. You just don't lose the shooting ability unless you are injured or lose confidence in your play. That could come from lack of playing time and I suspect that's what was wrong with JJ. Keep up JJ. Go Duke!

UrinalCake
01-14-2009, 09:50 AM
Does this picture look familiar at all?

For four years as a Duke fan there was no sweeter sight than watching JJ drain a three. That photo says it all, though it's still weird for me to see him wearing a different uniform.

OZZIE4DUKE
01-14-2009, 10:16 AM
"Redick connected on four 3-pointers in the first half and two fans in the lower level repeatedly stood and chanted his name after each basket. "

Sounds like two past Crazies might have been in attendance.
I agree. I don't think it was disgruntled Maryland fans. Next time, they should wear Duke garb so the world would know!

ldavid1
01-14-2009, 11:00 AM
The only people who didn't know JJ could do this are Carolina fans and Orlando management. The guy is an all-time great who lit up PLENTY of future NBA players in his college days for 35 and 40 points; that doesn't just GO AWAY.

Love the post, but just have to disagree. The Carolina fans know he can do this, but fail to give him the proper credit. I would guess many of them still hate him even though he has carried himself well and typically classy style of most all Duke alum in the NBA.

Keep up the great work JJ!

moonpie23
01-14-2009, 12:48 PM
For four years as a Duke fan there was no sweeter sight than watching JJ drain a three. That photo says it all, though it's still weird for me to see him wearing a different uniform.

At least it's a dark blue uni.......i hate seeing boozer in baby blue... :(

Bluedog
01-14-2009, 12:54 PM
The last five games (all wins) JJ has averaged 12.2 points, shooting 58.3% FG (65.2% 3-pt FG!) in 22.5 minutes.

Cell-R
01-14-2009, 01:20 PM
"The Magic made 23 3-point shots to set an NBA record in their 139-107 victory over the Kings."

Wouldn't have happened without J.J. playing for those 25 minutes

Devilsfan
01-14-2009, 04:11 PM
Maybe Stanley is a better coach than I thought.
Congrats JJ, keep it up.

Edouble
01-15-2009, 02:44 AM
At least it's a dark blue uni.......i hate seeing boozer in baby blue... :(

I agree sir.

Dahntay as well.

_Gary
01-15-2009, 09:09 AM
Maybe Stanley is a better coach than I thought.
Congrats JJ, keep it up.

Not to throw any cold water on this amazingly wonderful development we've witnessed over the last couple of weeks but... I'd say we need to wait until Pietrus comes back and Bogans gets the rust off from his recent injury to see if these minutes will continue for JJ. I hope they do, but if recent history is any judge we might better temper our enthusiasm for SVG a bit. I've learned that the guy can pull leashes in pretty quickly, so I'm taking more of a wait and see approach before I send Stan any flowers and candy.

Gary

mike88
01-15-2009, 11:29 AM
Not to throw any cold water on this amazingly wonderful development we've witnessed over the last couple of weeks but... I'd say we need to wait until Pietrus comes back and Bogans gets the rust off from his recent injury to see if these minutes will continue for JJ. I hope they do, but if recent history is any judge we might better temper our enthusiasm for SVG a bit. I've learned that the guy can pull leashes in pretty quickly, so I'm taking more of a wait and see approach before I send Stan any flowers and candy.

Gary

I agree, particularly with regard Pietrus, who was playing very well (including shooting the 3) before his first injury- he brings some skills that JJ just doesn't have. I do think JJ will continue to get minutes, but it will be fewer. We might see Hedo playing a little less, with Pietrus playing in place of him at the "3" spot.

yancem
01-15-2009, 01:25 PM
Not to throw any cold water on this amazingly wonderful development we've witnessed over the last couple of weeks but... I'd say we need to wait until Pietrus comes back and Bogans gets the rust off from his recent injury to see if these minutes will continue for JJ. I hope they do, but if recent history is any judge we might better temper our enthusiasm for SVG a bit. I've learned that the guy can pull leashes in pretty quickly, so I'm taking more of a wait and see approach before I send Stan any flowers and candy.

Gary

You are probably correct but at least JJ has gotten to show that he can compete in the league which should help him down the road. Sooner or later Orlando is going to have to play or trade him. He only has one more year left on his contract and if they are not going to make him a part of their long term plans, then they will trade him so that they can get something back instead of loosing him to free agency. His recent play both increases his value on the floor and as a trading piece. Not to mention helping with the possibility of a second contract.

OZZIE4DUKE
01-15-2009, 11:11 PM
JJ and the Magic will be on ESPN Friday night at 10:30, playing the Lakers.

Here's to JJ getting 20+ points, 25 minutes, and hitting the game winning 3 over Kobe :D

Acymetric
01-16-2009, 11:19 PM
Just a reminder: The Magic are on ESPN right now (game started at 10:30). J.J. is in right now, hasn't done much yet, but then neither has anyone else on the Magic really.

Cell-R
01-17-2009, 12:51 AM
Redick is 1-1 from 3 pt land in a close one with the Lakers.

87-87 with 5:41 left in the 4th quarter.

ESPN stats has Redick at 1 for 2... I don't remember the second shot though?

I feel like they may have counted his missed shot that he took after his teammate traveled.

They complain about his defense... But what can you do when you are guarding Kobe?! :confused:

jv001
01-17-2009, 09:14 AM
Redick is 1-1 from 3 pt land in a close one with the Lakers.

87-87 with 5:41 left in the 4th quarter.

ESPN stats has Redick at 1 for 2... I don't remember the second shot though?

I feel like they may have counted his missed shot that he took after his teammate traveled.

They complain about his defense... But what can you do when you are guarding Kobe?! :confused:

When guarding Kobe just pray. Go Duke!

godukerocks
01-17-2009, 10:21 AM
They complain about his defense... But what can you do when you are guarding Kobe?! :confused:

JJ was matched with Kobe twice at about the same spot on the court; the free throw line extended right in front of the three point line. Both times Kobe just shot right over him. But hey, it's Kobe.

But yes, Redick only shot once on a nice catch and shoot three in transition.

hood7
01-17-2009, 10:37 AM
JJ shot a near airball (caught front iron and went straight down) from the corner in the 2nd quarter. He was just off the bottom corner of the tv screen when he shot, so I can understand why you guys didn't notice it, but it was definitely JJ that shot that one.

Otherwise, I thought he looked pretty good out there. I hadn't really watched him much, and was afraid he would look like he didn't belong, but I was pleasantly surprised.

OZZIE4DUKE
01-17-2009, 10:42 AM
JJ was matched with Kobe twice at about the same spot on the court; the free throw line extended right in front of the three point line. Both times Kobe just shot right over him. But hey, it's Kobe.

But yes, Redick only shot once on a nice catch and shoot three in transition.
And Kobe did the same thing to the guy that replaced JJ in the 4th quarter. Kobe is pretty good. :rolleyes:

COYS
01-17-2009, 01:21 PM
I thought it was a good sign that JJ got as much burn as he did. It was a great game and a really close one, Courtney Lee played well and yet JJ still made it onto the floor for significant stretches of the first half and even got a little fourth quarter burn. Kobe draining a shot over him isn't so bad. If anything, it would have been worse had he beaten him off the dribble. It's near impossible to stop Kobe from getting off his fade-away. Anyway, he played well. I thought some of the his teammates missed him in the corner a few times for a wide-open three, but he kept his head in the game and buried a nice one in the 4th quarter in crunch time. The game definitely showed that the Magic are for real, though. Hopefully we'll see JJ knock a few three's down deep into the playoffs.

_Gary
01-17-2009, 09:42 PM
May be a bad sign tonight against Denver here in the first quarter: Bogans has come in ahead of JJ, who's sitting near the end of the bench again. It's still early, but I take it as bad news to see Bogans in first.

_Gary
01-17-2009, 10:26 PM
JJ did come in for the start of the 2nd quarter and actually played the entire quarter because of foul trouble from other players. Unfortunately they only ran one play for him in the entire 2nd quarter, a double screen that freed JJ up for only a half second and he had to rush a shot from the corner that he missed. The only other shot I remember him taking was a three off a pass from Howard in the post, but again the pass was high and JJ was unable to catch and shoot in rhythm. Another miss. Beyond those two shots, he was the invisible man on offense. His teammates most assuredly did not look for him at all. His defense was admirable, but far from perfect. I truly believe (and have felt this way since he first came to the team) that his teammates do NOT give him a fair shake and look for him very much at all.

Ultimately, I believe a change of scenery is still JJ's best shot.


Gary

OldSchool
01-23-2009, 12:07 AM
JJ in for a good 27 minutes against the Celtics and played quite solid D against Eddie House and Ray Allen.

Since he was the ONLY Magic player with a "+" number in the "+/-" category (according to the ESPN boxscore), applying the Basketball Law of Extrapolation, the Magic clearly would have beaten the Celtics if only they would have played JJ for 48 minutes.

SilkyJ
01-23-2009, 01:30 AM
JJ in for a good 27 minutes against the Celtics and played quite solid D against Eddie House and Ray Allen.

Since he was the ONLY Magic player with a "+" number in the "+/-" category (according to the ESPN boxscore), applying the Basketball Law of Extrapolation, the Magic clearly would have beaten the Celtics if only they would have played JJ for 48 minutes.

Beat me to it, and I was going to point out the same stat (I love that ESPN is now showing that as part of their box scores.)

Don't want to speak prematurely b/c we've all gotten our hopes up when it comes to JJ seeing a little PT, but he seems to have moved ahead of Bogans on the depth chart though I know he;s been struggling with injuries. Once Pietrus comes back he'll probably get shifted down, though Lee only played 18 mins last night to JJ's 27 so you never know...

dukebballcamper90-91
01-23-2009, 06:31 AM
Is it me or will Turkalu, or however you spell it, not pass the ball to JJ. At the end of the 3rd qtr JJ was waiting on the wing for the kick out 3 and Turk did some crazy move and lost the ball. JJ is playing some good basketball right now.

Lord Ash
01-23-2009, 07:20 AM
though Lee only played 18 mins last night to JJ's 27...

And missed every shot he took. JJ got two shots the whole game... amazing how many other players took, and missed.

sagegrouse
01-23-2009, 07:28 AM
Is it me or will Turkalu, or however you spell it, not pass the ball to JJ. At the end of the 3rd qtr JJ was waiting on the wing for the kick out 3 and Turk did some crazy move and lost the ball. JJ is playing some good basketball right now.

It's "turko-GLU," as in "once the ball touches his hands he doesn't give it up until he shoots."

sagegrouse

ice-9
01-23-2009, 08:00 AM
It's "turko-GLU," as in "once the ball touches his hands he doesn't give it up until he shoots."

sagegrouse

LOL, so true...

SilkyJ
01-23-2009, 12:43 PM
Is it me or will Turkalu, or however you spell it, not pass the ball to JJ. At the end of the 3rd qtr JJ was waiting on the wing for the kick out 3 and Turk did some crazy move and lost the ball. JJ is playing some good basketball right now.

You know, this has question has been posed more than once on this board, perhaps in this thread. I actually thought JJ and Hedo were on good terms last year. I remember a big buzzer beater Hedo made and JJ was the first off the bench to meet him on the court nad give him a chest bump.

Who knows, but it does seem like JJ does not get the ball very often (and not just b/c of hedo, others seem to not pass very often), tho the NBA is not known for its ball movement and everyone likes to do their best Allen Iverson so it may be more of that than anything...

phaedrus
01-23-2009, 02:32 PM
Chris Mannix of SI just wrote a short piece on the Magic where he forecasts more opportunity ahead for JJ:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/chris_mannix/01/23/magic.celtics/index.html

Edouble
01-24-2009, 01:58 AM
Chris Mannix of SI just wrote a short piece on the Magic where he forecasts more opportunity ahead for JJ:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/chris_mannix/01/23/magic.celtics/index.html

Possibly opportunity with the Celtics. That's exciting!

jv001
01-24-2009, 04:22 PM
Possibly opportunity with the Celtics. That's exciting!

The Celtics and Magic have had conversations regarding JJ this month. Now that is encouraging. That tells me that if the Celts see JJ as a missing piece of their puzzle, he must better than some have thought. I look forward to the day JJ becomes a Celtic. Go #4 and Go Duke!

AtlDuke72
01-24-2009, 08:00 PM
The Celtics and Magic have had conversations regarding JJ this month. Now that is encouraging. That tells me that if the Celts see JJ as a missing piece of their puzzle, he must better than some have thought. I look forward to the day JJ becomes a Celtic. Go #4 and Go Duke!
I watched Orlando this week because JJ was getting some playing time. He will be better going anywhere rather than staying with that team. He went about 5 minutes without even touching the ball. Whoever got it just went one on one. Torkgolu was the worst. Does he ever pass? There is a reason that foreign teams have been beating the U.S . teams over the past decade. It is not that their players have caught up. They play like a team which beats one on one play anytime. The NBA style of basketball is horrendus.

hq2
01-24-2009, 08:24 PM
Saw J.J. play against the Celtics the other day. He definitely does have problems on defense, at least against better players. When he was in,
Ray Allen drove around him 2 or 3 times, and even backed in and shot
a turnaround jumper over him, which he almost never does. I'm not sure
if J.J. would really help the C's all that much, although I'd love to see him up
here. Both Allen and Eddie House are pretty good (although sometimes
streaky) 3 point shooters, and they play better D. He might be better off elsewhere; needs to go to a team with good street ball players who need a good spot up shooter. Any suggestions?

Indoor66
01-24-2009, 08:25 PM
JJ just went out of the Miami-Orlando game after about 10 1st & 2nd qtr minutes. he scored 4 + a rebound and assist.

SilkyJ
01-24-2009, 10:05 PM
JJ just went out of the Miami-Orlando game after about 10 1st & 2nd qtr minutes. he scored 4 + a rebound and assist.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=290124014

According to the ESPN boxscore, he only played 3 mins. Do you know if we went out with an injury and if so what type?

juise
01-27-2009, 09:03 PM
Pietrus is back (http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=290127019) and playing well enough that neither J.J. or Keith Bogans entered the game for the first 38 minutes. Bummer.