John Wall Recruitment

[BlueinBlo]

Huh... He probably wont decide until then at this rate.:confused:

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/5075734/


Wall is expected to narrow his list of schools any day now. The signing period ends May 20.

[SilkyJ]

One of the student managers from that squad was a friend and neighber going back to our days in Brown Dorm and (shudder) Trent.

Casey was going to redshirt. Then the world changed.

Right and my friend's sister's dog is screwing the Obamas' new pooch.

Casey hadn't even graduated HS and he was already set on a non-medical redshirt? Sounds like a rumor to me.


http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/5075734/

The may 20th deadline means very little. you are allowed to accept a scholarship offer after that date.

[Kedsy]

I guess what I'm asking is wasn't Wall technically under arrest when he was stopped? It seems that he was. Being arressted and being charged/cited are different events. When he was stopped I beleive he is under arrest. He hasn't been charged with anything or cited for anything at that point but he isn't free to leave. Then the officer makes the decision on what to do. He could have let him go and not cited him, cited him, took him to the station/taking him into police custody, etc, etc. But I think that technically he was under arrest when the officer stopped him to investigate what was going on/what happenned. The outcome was that he was cited but he does seem to have been arrested if I remember the definition correctly (haven't taken crim in awhile so could be way off). I don't want to belabor this since its a minor point but I think the person you were responding to (who said that they thought Wall was arressted) is correct.

Either way I don't think his actions seem that serious all in all. I still hope he comes to Duke.

I'm almost certain the police are allowed to stop somebody for questioning without placing them under arrest, even though the person is not supposed to leave without permission. So I don't think he was "technically" under arrest unless the police officer actually intended to arrest him.

[geraldsneighbor]

That Kentucky sports radio site makes me laugh. According to them they are getting Bledsoe, Wall and Lance Stephenson. I don't doubt they get two of them but how many scholarships can a team have. Hell, they still might have Meeks and PP come back.

[NSDukeFan]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sobriquet
Andre Dawson: He projects to be an absolute stud.


I know his OBP was pretty low, but the Hawk could really knock them out of the park. Not sure how he'll be for us at SG/SF, though.

This made my day. He is my all-time favorite ball player, and I am waiting for him to get into the hall. I think a couple years playing basketball for Duke would give him the recognition he needs along with his MVP, 400 steals and HRs and multitude of gold gloves.

Dawkins sounds like a stud too, but nowhere near a hall-of-famer at this stage.

[derayb]

Here, the cop has reasonable suspician, you know, by having witnessed Wall come out of the house. After stopping Wall, and I am sure performing a pat down, he has questioned Wall, which the pig (Free Wall!) is free to do. Wall COULD have left, but then it becomes resisting an arrest, which is major. Yes, the citation is like an arrest, but not really. It is closer to a conviction. Most judges will accept the cop's account barring other serious evidence to the contrary. The cit mainly involves a fine. But if you leave before the cop finishes giving you the citation, it then becomes resisting an arrest.

Given where NC's state budget is, and our state's Const. limitations, this cop probably only gave out the citation for the revenue it will genarate.

What if the cop didn't actually see Wall coming out of the back door upon arrival...what if it was more like he knew what was going on before he even arrived on the scene, and waited for Wall (and the girl) to come out of the house? One comes out the back and while the officer is talking to him, the other slips out the front. The officer meanwhile knows that the "concerned citizen" who placed the call is watching from a nearby window... the exchange of paper would almost be a must in that situation would it not? That would also explain why more than a week had passed without the paperwork actually being turned in. One question would remain... who tipped off the media? Hmmm.... lol ... speculation? ... perhaps...

[bostonlawyer]

One of the student managers from that squad was a friend and neighber going back to our days in Brown Dorm and (shudder) Trent.

Casey was going to redshirt. Then the world changed.

But didn't that student manager lose all of her credibility with the student government endorsement fiasco?

[umdukie]

That's what Gary Parrish claims.
http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6271764/14886936
How does everyone know? Wall has PUBLICLY stated that he has no leader at this point. I think Miami, Duke and NC State are still in this.

[stickdog]

Exhibit F in the UNC fan Wall to ABD brigade (http://www.chapelhillnews.com/sports/story/49585.html)

Wall has taken a different route. He is still trying to decide where he will play. A big reason he is still available is Carolina's Roy Williams has been the one coach in the country to say no (or possibly maybe if certain criteria are met) to Wall, and UNC just happens to be Wall's dream school.

So Wall's delay has nothing to do with Calipari changing schools and Duke charging into Wall's recruitment and instead everything to do with Wall's coach's mortal enemy not offering Wall (yet) because Roy Williams is the one coach in the NCAA with the courage to hold a childish grudge?

Whether Wall has the necessary board score to be eligible as a freshman is not a matter of public record. The arrest is, and that could be enough to make Williams say thanks but no thanks. Given that will probably end Duke's interest, if it has not already waned, the Blue Devils saying no thanks might make it even easier for UNC walk away.

ABD! ABD! ABD!!!

By the time this thing is said and done, Wall might just be one of those who hears his name called in the first round of the NBA draft in June. He meets the age requirement of 19, so he could challenge the rule that states a player must have a year of separation from his high-school class because Wall spent an extra year in high school. (Talk about a can of worms; of course, that might be the perfect ingredient to add to this stew if kids started staying in high school an extra year to enter the draft.)

Note that the fact that deadline for declaring for the NBA draft has long come and gone has no bearing on Landreth's wholly irrational, grasping at any straw denial of any possibility of Wall ending up at Duke.

Wall could also wind up as the chief recruit for one of Europe's top professional teams. It's just getting harder to say at a time when we thought we would know.

And now it is time to invoke Europe as a probable destination, even though nobody from the Wall camp has ever so much as mentioned this incredibly remote possibility and the number one program in the NCAA, located right next door to Wall, Wall's mother and Wall's coach and headed by a Hall of Fame coach, has basically offered Wall the keys to the team in order to facilitate Wall's quest for NBA riches.

Could the denial be any more blatant?

[ItalianDevil]

Please, coach, don't change your mind on Mr. Wall basing on "this thing". Kids do a lot of stupid things at his age. We really need JW to come in Navy Blue, I think you can learn a couple of things thereafter.

Keep on recruiting him

Thank you

[UrinalCake]

Exhibit F in the UNC fan Wall to ABD brigade (http://www.chapelhillnews.com/sports/story/49585.html)


I too had some issues with this article:

Wall made what is now a famous phone call to Williams before the Final Four.

Everything I've read said that Williams called Wall. Am I missing something?

Then when Ty Lawson and Wayne Ellington announced they were leaving Carolina for the National Basketball Association...

Really? The "National Basketball Association"? Does it somehow make you more sophisticated and intelligent than the rest of us to not just call it the "NBA"?

[stickdog]

It's far more than that. Can anyone name a local publication that has ever written a single article envisioning Duke's chances with Wall as Duke's starting point guard next season?

[quickgtp]

Wall will end up @ UK with Bledsoe, IMO. I love watching Duke play and compete, but we need to make sure we do not raise our expectations for next years team. We will have talent, yes, but no true PG and 3 guards, wow. I know I know, go ahead and say how "negative" I am being. I call it realism.

[Sobriquet]

Wall will end up @ UK with Bledsoe, IMO. I love watching Duke play and compete, but we need to make sure we do not raise our expectations for next years team. We will have talent, yes, but no true PG and 3 guards, wow. I know I know, go ahead and say how "negative" I am being. I call it realism.

I am not so sure. I mean, if we don't get Wall, then you are correct. We have three guards, no low post beast, and no one to run the team unless Nolan starts channeling CDu. Replicating last year's modest success is no sure thing.

But, Bledsoe to KY speaks to me of a couple things.

1. Calipari is wisely taking the bird in hand approach. He wants both players. Wall for a year, and Bledsoe to follow (especially should Bledsoe be a non-qualifier and thus ineligible in year 1). But Cal is smart to take the first player that offers. I think everybody in high major college ball knows the story of Kenny Anderson, Dean Smith, and Bobby Hurley. Take the first one that committs. Better your second option than no option. KY has no PG on its roster. Heck, it doesn't really have a viable option at PG. Without a PG, all the rest of those fancy parts will really hum some games, and stall out in others. And flame out in the NCAAs. Bledsoe, without Wall, has a chance to have that team humming come March.

2. But, this has a downside. Unless Bledsoe, and therefore Wall and Cal, know he won't be eligible next year, Bledsoe's commitment has to have a negative impact on Wall. Sure, Wall is good enough to start over Bledsoe. But, Wall is probably 1 and done, so Cal will make sure that Bledsoe gets quality MPG so that his PG of the future is ready the following year. At Duke, Wall gets tons o MPG at PG. At KY, if Meeks returns as expected, he will play a lot, and Wall will lose some of his minutes. (Now, if Meeks has hired an agent, or flat out said he isn't comming back, then Cal could be pitching a Duhon Williams type Backcourt with Wall and Bledsoe. Yikes. Although, that lineup would be a disaster from three land. Pack in the Zone. But I doubt that scenario. Both these guys need the ball in their hands).

3. Cal may know something, or highly suspect something. Like maybe Wall wants to be closer to his mom. Like how K can, and probably is, camping out on Wall's front yard or HS parking lot. Cal has to know that a Bledsoe Commitment will have an adverse affect on his chances at Wall. Two of the top PGs from one HS class in the same recruiting class at one school? Two posts, two SFs, two wings, SURE. Both can play on the court at the same time (Jon and G, Parks and Meek, Ginyard and Green, etc). Two Pass first, team running, PGs? Both of whom have the same weakness (Perimeter shooting)? So maybe Cal doesn't like his chances with Wall anymore, or at least is unsure to a high level.

I know most of you are getting tired of this saga. I'm not. But I think that the longer this thing drags on, the better Duke's chances are. Memphis, and Cal were thought to be the front runner for Wall ever since he didn't immediately commit to Baylor when his AAU coach's Brother went to Baylor to coach. After his visit to Memphis, Wall all but committed to Cal, saying Memphis was the school to Beat. Then K got seriously involved in the process. Suddenly, Wall was waffling, and NCSU and Miami are not the reasons for that. The longer it takes, the more Wall has to realize the benefits of Duke.

Furthermore, I love K's full throated Pursuit of an elite, surefire early entry candidate. There are other such players, many of whom more closely fit the Duke mold, that are elite talents who are likely to leave early. I really feel that negative recruiting against Duke had successfully established the notion that Duke and K would discourage kids from leaving early. Even if we don't get Wall, our pursuit has proven to every AAU and HS coach, and player, that Duke will support its players, whatever choice they make. We are now receptive to the RIGHT TYPES of one-and-done players who will play within the team concept, take coaching, and play D. If those guys leave early, so be it, as long as they go to class second semester.

Finally, as a plea to Wall, think about it:

You can go to KY and be a part of a great recruiting class on a team with one of the better front lines in recent memory in Cousins, Orton, and Patterson. You can be a key cog in returning a team to greatness. ESPN will interview your entire class as a group during the NCAAs. You will probably win a lot of games, but you won't get much credit for any of it.

Or you can come to Duke as the unquestioned Gem of our recruiting class. You can do interviews BY yourself with Jay Williams as he talks about passing the torch (with a few pithy quips by Hurley and CDu thrown in by the editing Dept.) Duke will put the ball in your hand from day one. And guess what? There is no backup pg that K has to give minutes too in prep for the next year. Heck, your most onerous off-court, non-academic duty will be to help recruit your replacement. And most of that can be done by being your studly baller self on court. And the ACC's TV package is second to NONE. More people will watch you play, and know your name, than some NBA starters. What's not to love?

Also, if Cal lands both Bledsoe and Wall, to go along with some of his other questionable recruits/links to future players, the NCAA will set up a field office in Lexington, and not the good kind.

[BlueinBlo]

Got this from the Bledsoe press conference.

Bledsoe said today that Calipari told him that he "can come in right off the bat and start.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/may/06/point-guard-prospect-eric-bledsoe-picks-kentucky-o/
Hmm, he wouldn't start if they got John Wall. Looks like they may be out of the John Wall game.

[BlueinBlo]

Do you think Cal is just blowing smoke up his skirt about starting or do you think he has actually given up on Wall?

I think he has given up because he doesn't want to hurt his reputation too bad. Taking every player that was looking at Memphis with him would really hurt his legacy in Memphis. With Bledsoe, he was fresh and didn't have interest for Memphis when Cal was there.

[Duvall]

Got this from the Bledsoe press conference.


http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/may/06/point-guard-prospect-eric-bledsoe-picks-kentucky-o/
Hmm, he wouldn't start if they got John Wall. Looks like they may be out of the John Wall game.

Unless John Calipari was being less than truthful - a scenario that I, for one, find hard to imagine.

[johaad]

Unless John Calipari was being less than truthful - a scenario that I, for one, find hard to imagine.

That's what I'm thinking. I hope Blueinbio is right but I doubt it.

[BlueinBlo]

Unless John Calipari was being less than truthful - a scenario that I, for one, find hard to imagine.

I know he said he was going to Kentucky but did he sign that letter of Intent?? I could see him waiting till the 20th to sign it just to make sure.

[Sobriquet]

Got this from the Bledsoe press conference.


http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/may/06/point-guard-prospect-eric-bledsoe-picks-kentucky-o/
Hmm, he wouldn't start if they got John Wall. Looks like they may be out of the John Wall game.

Unles Cal knows Meeks is gone, and plans to start Wall and Bledsoe together. I wouldn't like it if I was wall, but a Duhon-JWill scenario is not outside the realm of possibility.

Only, who shoots the threes in that lineup, and good luck finding a driving lane with Two of Orton, Patterson (unless he's gone also) and Cousins clogging the lane.

Come to Duke.

[BlueinBlo]

Wow, looking at the reader comments in that link, those Memphis fans sure aren't happy. PLEASE, if Wall chooses another school, let us not act like them and start bashing Wall, Coach K, etc.
It depends on what school Wall ends up at. If somehow UNC or Miami gets him I will bash Coach K. I know we came in late but those teams came in real late. Baylor or Memphis or any of the other school I will be fine with.

[Sobriquet]

It depends on what school Wall ends up at. If somehow UNC or Miami gets him I will bash Coach K. I know we came in late but those teams came in real late. Baylor or Memphis or any of the other school I will be fine with.

If its UNC, this board will melt down. If it is Miami, I would be upset, but I would be so shocked that I wouldn't be that upset. A Miami committment isn't K getting out recruited. That would be a kid making a very poor decision.

I can't fault K for that.

[CDu]

It depends on what school Wall ends up at. If somehow UNC or Miami gets him I will bash Coach K. I know we came in late but those teams came in real late. Baylor or Memphis or any of the other school I will be fine with.

Honestly, I don't see why you would bash Coach K based on Wall's decision. If Wall were to go to UNC (which would first require an offer), I'd chalk that up to Wall choosing his dream school over Duke. If Wall chose Miami over Duke, one could chalk that up to Wall preferring the "scenery" there over Duke. In neither case is it necessarily Coach K's fault that Wall went somewhere else. It's very possible that, if Wall goes elsewhere, he'll go there for reasons over which Coach K has no control.

[UrinalCake]

It depends on what school Wall ends up at. If somehow UNC or Miami gets him I will bash Coach K. I know we came in late but those teams came in real late. Baylor or Memphis or any of the other school I will be fine with.

I will assume for the moment that when you say "bash" what you really mean is that you will be critical of Coach K for how he handled this particular recruit. First off, UNC has been interested in Wall for a lot longer than Duke, but held off on pursuing him because of the relationship between Wall's coach and Roy Williams. Secondly, Memphis hasn't been in it for as long as Duke when you consider the fact that their coach and most of their recruiting class are gone, thus they essentially had to start over six weeks ago. Thirdly, there is no guarantee that the earlier you start going after a guy the more likely you are to get him.

That said, I would be disappointed if Miami or Memphis got him because I feel that Duke's roster is better suited to showcase his abilities and make a tournament run. For the same reason I would be ok if he went to Kentucky or even UNC (in which case, please shoot me).

[BlueinBlo]

I will assume for the moment that when you say "bash" what you really mean is that you will be critical of Coach K for how he handled this particular recruit. First off, UNC has been interested in Wall for a lot longer than Duke, but held off on pursuing him because of the relationship between Wall's coach and Roy Williams. Secondly, Memphis hasn't been in it for as long as Duke when you consider the fact that their coach and most of their recruiting class are gone, thus they essentially had to start over six weeks ago. Thirdly, there is no guarantee that the earlier you start going after a guy the more likely you are to get him.

That said, I would be disappointed if Miami or Memphis got him because I feel that Duke's roster is better suited to showcase his abilities and make a tournament run. For the same reason I would be ok if he went to Kentucky or even UNC (in which case, please shoot me).
So you would be ok for Wall to go to an ACC school??? If he goes to UNC there is a serious problem with Coach K recruiting. Duke offers so much more then UNC and location can't be an excuse because they are so close. Also, Kentucky would really stink because we would have to play them at sometime and they would be stacked.

For me it's either Duke or a team not in the ACC or Kentucky. I just feel Duke has so much to offer this kid and if he doesn't choose Duke I would feel that Coach K didn't really try hard enough to show him how important this kid is. Do you people understand how good he is. He takes Duke from sweet sixteen to national championship.

[roywhite]

So you would be ok for Wall to go to an ACC school??? If he goes to UNC there is a serious problem with Coach K recruiting. Duke offers so much more then UNC and location can't be an excuse because they are so close. Also, Kentucky would really stink because we would have to play them at sometime and they would be stacked.

For me it's either Duke or a team not in the ACC or Kentucky. I just feel Duke has so much to offer this kid and if he doesn't choose Duke I would feel that Coach K didn't really try hard enough to show him how important this kid is. Do you people understand how good he is. He takes Duke from sweet sixteen to national championship.


Many on this board take Duke basketball pretty seriously, and hate to see losses, whether on the court or the recruiting trail. But none of us hate to see those losses as much as Coach K .

You're entitled to your way of looking at things, but blaming or bashing Coach K on this subject is not a reasonable point of view, IMO.

[NYDukie]

Got this from the Bledsoe press conference.


http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/may/06/point-guard-prospect-eric-bledsoe-picks-kentucky-o/
Hmm, he wouldn't start if they got John Wall. Looks like they may be out of the John Wall game.

Who knows what Meeks and PP do, but who is to say Cal wouldn't go w/ a 2 PG or 3 guard alignment? It already seems that most teams don't have a traditional lineup and start 3 guards, though it tends to be with two guards more of a off guard mold. Cal plays a full throttle attack game as it is, especially on the defensive end and to have both Bledsoe and Wall pressure the ball could be explosive. I'm of the glass if half full thinking regarding Duke's recruiting but to dismiss Wall to UK because of Bledsoe committing is a bit premature in my eyes. For the record I have soured on the Wall recruitment because of various issues involving Wall and Co. and I still believe we are in the mix until the end but Bledsoe's decision changes nothing in my eyes regarding Duke's chances.

[UrinalCake]

I'm not saying I'd be okay with him going to UNC, I'm just saying that from the standpoint of what other players are on the roster it would make sense for him to go to UNC or Kentucky. Either of those teams would be a FF-type team with him (this is just my opinon, and would be a whole separate debate in and of itself). Not so much with Miami and Memphis.

[BlueinBlo]

Who knows what Meeks and PP do, but who is to say Cal wouldn't go w/ a 2 PG or 3 guard alignment? It already seems that most teams don't have a traditional lineup and start 3 guards, though it tends to be with two guards more of a off guard mold. Cal plays a full throttle attack game as it is, especially on the defensive end and to have both Bledsoe and Wall pressure the ball could be explosive. I'm of the glass if half full thinking regarding Duke's recruiting but to dismiss Wall to UK because of Bledsoe committing is a bit premature in my eyes. For the record I have soured on the Wall recruitment because of various issues involving Wall and Co. and I still believe we are in the mix until the end but Bledsoe's decision changes nothing in my eyes regarding Duke's chances.
Who is going to score then?? Neither Wall or Bledsoe are really scorers. It would be tough for a team to operate on only relying on 3 guys to score all the points.

[rotogod00]

Who is going to score then?? Neither Wall or Bledsoe are really scorers. It would be tough for a team to operate on only relying on 3 guys to score all the points.

hate to say this, but isn't that what we do?

[JasonEvans]

Note:

All the posts in this thread that had nothing to do with John Wall and were instead a discussion of Duke's prospects next year have been moved to the 2009-2010 Duke discussion thread.

--Jason "lets keep it focused on John Wall in this thread, ok folks?" Evans

[flyingdutchdevil]

If Wall went to UNC, there would be panic in Duke country. I think that every Duke fan has their heart set on getting Wall, and if he went somewhere else, we would be disappointed. But if he went to UNC, we would be crushed. There would be a big difference and we should all pray together that that doesn't happen.

Also, I'm sure you've all seen this article, but there is one phrase (don't know the accuracy of it, but I hope it's incorrect) that scares the hell out of me:

"Wall has taken a different route. He is still trying to decide where he will play. A big reason he is still available is Carolina's Roy Williams has been the one coach in the country to say no (or possibly maybe if certain criteria are met) to Wall, and UNC just happens to be Wall's dream school."

http://www.chapelhillnews.com/sports/story/49585.html

Please basketball Gods, don't let Wall go to UNC. I really hope this isn't karma for Duke dominating during the late 90s and early 00s....

[Sobriquet]

Who is going to score then?? Neither Wall or Bledsoe are really scorers. It would be tough for a team to operate on only relying on 3 guys to score all the points.

Cousins and Patterson are scorers. And Wall is a Nasty Scorer. His ability to get to the rim, at WILL, against ANYBODY in this past class is why others are so high on him. He is your third scorer. And KY has enough residual talent on the team outside of Wall, Bledsoe/Meeks, and the bigs to chip in 10-20 ppg. And that will be enough.

Add Wall to the mix and KY is loaded. Same at UNC, a scenario which I have avoided posting about for fear of putting ideas in Wall's head.

But, to put it simply, with John Wall at UNC, UNC has a comparable level of talent with Kansas, currently the clear cut NC favorite next year.

Duke becomes the class of the ACC and a final four contender, with NC possibilities.

Wall at UNC turns next year into KU - UNC circus.

Choose Duke. Be a hero, instead of a cast mate.

[CDu]

So you would be ok for Wall to go to an ACC school???

I wouldn't be happy about it, but them's the breaks sometimes.


If he goes to UNC there is a serious problem with Coach K recruiting.

Or it could simply mean that Wall went to the school he's dreamed of playing for since being a kid.


Duke offers so much more then UNC and location can't be an excuse because they are so close.

Duke offers more from your perspective. But your perspective (and mine, and anyone else's besides John Wall's) doesn't matter. It's what the school offers to John Wall personally that matters. And if it's his dream school, then Duke doesn't offer that.

This is why I think it's silly to bash Coach K if the kid goes. If Wall goes somewhere else, it may simply be that there was nothing Coach K could have done. You seem to be under the assumption that recruiting effort guarantees landing a kid. That's not necessarily the case.

Would I be happy about Wall going to UNC or UK or Miami? No. But if he does go elsewhere that doesn't necessarily mean it was Coach K's fault. Recruiting is a two-way street.

[Sobriquet]

If Wall went to UNC, there would be panic in Duke country. I think that every Duke fan has their heart set on getting Wall, and if he went somewhere else, we would be disappointed. But if he went to UNC, we would be crushed. There would be a big difference and we should all pray together that that doesn't happen.

Also, I'm sure you've all seen this article, but there is one phrase (don't know the accuracy of it, but I hope it's incorrect) that scares the hell out of me:

"Wall has taken a different route. He is still trying to decide where he will play. A big reason he is still available is Carolina's Roy Williams has been the one coach in the country to say no (or possibly maybe if certain criteria are met) to Wall, and UNC just happens to be Wall's dream school."

http://www.chapelhillnews.com/sports/story/49585.html

Please basketball Gods, don't let Wall go to UNC. I really hope this isn't karma for Duke dominating during the late 90s and early 00s....

Read back a few pages.

Consider the source of this quote.

Duke was the dream school, and childhood favorite of both Kenny Boynton AND Greg Monroe. It means nothing today.

Consider what will happen to UNC vs Duke next year if Wall enrolls at Duke. Now consider how a pro-UNC "journalist" would feel about that.

[rotogod00]

I wouldn't be happy about it, but them's the breaks sometimes.



Or it could simply mean that Wall went to the school he's dreamed of playing for since being a kid.



Duke offers more from your perspective. But your perspective (and mine, and anyone else's besides John Wall's) doesn't matter. It's what the school offers to John Wall personally that matters. And if it's his dream school, then Duke doesn't offer that.

This is why I think it's silly to bash Coach K if the kid goes. If Wall goes somewhere else, it may simply be that there was nothing Coach K could have done. You seem to be under the assumption that recruiting effort guarantees landing a kid. That's not necessarily the case.

Would I be happy about Wall going to UNC or UK or Miami? No. But if he does go elsewhere that doesn't necessarily mean it was Coach K's fault. Recruiting is a two-way street.

terrific, terrific post

[flyingdutchdevil]

Read back a few pages.

Consider the source of this quote.

Duke was the dream school, and childhood favorite of both Kenny Boynton AND Greg Monroe. It means nothing today.

Consider what will happen to UNC vs Duke next year if Wall enrolls at Duke. Now consider how a pro-UNC "journalist" would feel about that.

I can assure you that Duke fans will be less thrilled about Wall joining UNC than UNC fans thought's regading Wall joining Duke because of
a) UNC has beaten Duke at Cameron 4 times in a row and has complete bragging rights right now
b) UNC hasn't recruited Wall as hard as DUke
c) UNC just won the national championship and, although they would love another, they are probably content on just making the tourney next year which will most likely happen

UNC isn't going to overflow their blogs with cries of "dammit, I hate Duke" if Wall comes here. If UNC gets Wall, I guarantee we will be ending our posts with "dammit, I hate UNC"

[NYDukie]

Who is going to score then?? Neither Wall or Bledsoe are really scorers. It would be tough for a team to operate on only relying on 3 guys to score all the points.

With all due respect then, if you look at this past year's Duke team you will see that Singler, G and Jon accounted for over 60% of the team's scoring. Yes, they fizzled against Nova but they were ranked top 10 all year and #1 for a week with 3 primary scorers. I would bet the house that Cal would have no problem putting Wall and Bledsoe out there together. They are the top rated PG and top 5 rated PG in nation. We have all said on this thread how Wall can drive and get to the hole. So why can't you have two do the same? Yes, the may not be great shooters or the prototypical type of shooters you may want, but I doubt they are that bad. Anytime you can get two top 5 rated PGs with no other options available, you take them. Anytime you can great talents you get them and then as any great Coach will do, you mold your team around the talent you have.

My apologies to the moderators for being a bit off topic with regards to the Wall recruitment. I just felt the need to defend my statement.

[BlueinBlo]

hate to say this, but isn't that what we do?

Yes, you are correct that is pretty much what we do and look at where we have ended up. I would also say Scheyer, G and Singler would be better than what they had. Also, almost every game Duke had a guy that would step up and be that fourth scorer in either, Thomas, Zoubek, Smith or Williams. One of them would get 15 or more points a game while the other 3 contirbuted in their usual ways.

Too me, Duke looks like a option for a national championship over Kentucky, if I were John Wall.

[Sobriquet]

Yes, you are correct that is pretty much what we do and look at where we have ended up. I would also say Scheyer, G and Singler would be better than what they had. Also, almost every game Duke had a guy that would step up and be that fourth scorer in either, Thomas, Zoubek, Smith or Williams. One of them would get 15 or more points a game while the other 3 contirbuted in their usual ways.

Too me, Duke looks like a option for a national championship over Kentucky, if I were John Wall.

Six of one, half dozen of the other. Meeks' decision has huge ramifications, both as a three pt threat and a huge change to the PT equation.

[ChicagoCrazy84]

I would in no way "bash" Coach K for losing out on the kid, but it would be a frustrating recurring theme we have seen the past 4 years or so in losing big time recruits. I just don't know why it wasn't a very high priority for Coach K to get a PG after Boynton decided to go to Florida. It seemed like he just said "I guess we'll see if Wall is interested, if not, oh well." Meanwhile, Calipari goes to UK knowing he doesn't have a PG and goes ruthlessly after Wall and Bledsoe.
The fact is, I can't see why people would be excited for next year without Wall. You can not get through the ACC and certainly not March without a solid backcourt and PG and without Wall, we have two unproven and inconsistent guards in EWill and Nolan and a sharpshooter in Scheyer, that's it. Losing your most prolific athlete, scorer, and creator in Henderson without somehow replacing it is tough to overcome.

[rotogod00]

"The fact is, I can't see why people would be excited for next year without Wall."

personally, i am not (speaking with some sense of realism). shouldn't say i'm not excited. just not overly optimistic.

[CameronBornAndBred]

The fact is, I can't see why people would be excited for next year without Wall.
How about because we are Duke fans. I'm excited every year we play, and we haven't had Wall any of the other 30+ years I've been following us.

[roywhite]

"The fact is, I can't see why people would be excited for next year without Wall."

personally, i am not (speaking with some sense of realism)

There are other teams to follow.

Explore your alternatives.

[rotogod00]

There are other teams to follow.

Explore your alternatives.


revised my post. not being excited is not correct. not overly optimistic is more appropriate

[NYDukie]

Yes, you are correct that is pretty much what we do and look at where we have ended up. I would also say Scheyer, G and Singler would be better than what they had. Also, almost every game Duke had a guy that would step up and be that fourth scorer in either, Thomas, Zoubek, Smith or Williams. One of them would get 15 or more points a game while the other 3 contirbuted in their usual ways.

Too me, Duke looks like a option for a national championship over Kentucky, if I were John Wall.

Depending on whom comes back, it will be an interesting decision. Neither cupboard is bare, even if those who declared don't come back. For Duke there will be Singler and Scheyer as the main cogs with the continued development of EWill and Smith along with the upside of MPI, MPII and Kelly as an allure to Wall. For UK, there is a much anticipated freshman class coming in and Wall wanting to play Cal whom he seems to have wanted to play for initially at Memphis before his departure. I would say Duke's parts may be a bit better because of a proven core but then again, they lack a true returning post presence whereas UK brings in two big time post recruits. MP II is our post recruit but he seems more a hybrid inside/out mix. In the end, I can't definitively say either would be a bad decision for Wall, basketball wise.

Also, for anyone wondering if Bledsoe and Wall could or would want to play together in the same backcourt, here is a link I fell into in which Bledsoe states he would have no problem playing together with Wall. Take it and the sites validity with a grain of salt I suppose.

http://www.zagsblog.com/2009/05/05/bledsoe-to-kentucky-armstead-to-oregon/

[sagegrouse]

I would in no way "bash" Coach K for losing out on the kid, but it would be a frustrating recurring theme we have seen the past 4 years or so in losing big time recruits.

I know you always regret the one that got away, but -- even so -- would you describe the following recruits from the last four recruiting classes as chopped liver?

McRoberts
Singler
Henderson
Scheyer
Nolan
EWill
LT

I mean, Carolina was truly lucky that Hansbrough, who was ranked below McBob, was so well-suited for the college game and was willing to stay four years and that Lawson, who was not as highly regarded as many other recruits, proved to be a stud.

Seriously, if we get three recruits every year who are in the top 30 and that K thinks are a good fit for his team, we are going to be a superb program. Does it really matter whether we recruit only three players and get them all or recruit ten players and get only three?

sagegrouse

[Sobriquet]

I can assure you that Duke fans will be less thrilled about Wall joining UNC than UNC fans thought's regading Wall joining Duke because of
a) UNC has beaten Duke at Cameron 4 times in a row and has complete bragging rights right now
b) UNC hasn't recruited Wall as hard as DUke
c) UNC just won the national championship and, although they would love another, they are probably content on just making the tourney next year which will most likely happen

UNC isn't going to overflow their blogs with cries of "dammit, I hate Duke" if Wall comes here. If UNC gets Wall, I guarantee we will be ending our posts with "dammit, I hate UNC"


A). UNC hates Duke in a way that Duke does not hate UNC. Many of Duke's fans leave the state upon graduation. UNC's fans ARE the state. For them it is about locals vs outsiders, southerners vs Yankees. UNC will never be content with last year's success. They would like to beat Duke in CIS forever.
B) Wall has said that UNC was his dream school. Remember the consternation here when similiar declarations from Monroe and Boynton proved worthless? In North Carolina it is worse. This would be an in state player, close enough to bike to UNC's campus, choosing the State's No. 1 Villian (Duke/K) over the "good guy." Further, Wall appears to be a recruit that Roy simply had to reach out and pick up. He hasn't even extended that modicum of effort.
C) Are you stoned? Right now the biggest stick in UNC's Craw is that K repeated as NC, and UNC (ie Dean) never accomplished this feat. Also, the fact that K has more titles than any 1 UNC coach. That eats at them. UNC fans will never be fully happy until they can repeat. Which isn't outside the realm of possibility next year. If Drew can play solid at the PG, UNC COULD win the title next year. It is a long shot, but it is possible. Make the NCAAs? UNC is a top 10 team next year, right now. Yes, they lost a lot. They were so talented that they still have a lot. And they got a good recruiting class. Wall would put them in the top 2, and it would let them hopefully exercise any demons they have about Roy being guilted into comming home to UNC and any lingering feelings of love Roy has for KU.

Wall is not just any recruit. It is not just any recruit who considered UNC their dream school. In the 90s that was every SG or WF in the nation because of Mike Jordan. Wall is the number 1 player, who grew up in N freaking C, who happens to play the one position where UNC is weakest next year. A position that happens to be integral to Roy's entire offensive system.

Further, UNC has delighted in Duke's recent lack luster performance. They would like that to continue. If K gets Wall, Duke will be back. It would probably be the first trickle in a flood of recruits that would vault Duke back into the elite teams in the nation, right up there with UNC.

Sure, this board will melt down if Wall chooses UNC.

Sure, the UNC blogs have been relatively quiet on the subject. That was when Wall seemed to be a heavy KY lean. With the Bledsoe decision, that no longer seems to be the case. Pro-UNC journalists, who have grasped this firmly in the last week, have been on a crusade to get Wall to ABD. This was ignored by UNC fans basking in the NC, who were confidant he was KY bound. Soon, they will wake up to the fact that Duke has a legitimate chance to get Wall, and that with Wall Duke is a front-runner for the NC. The vitriol is forthcomming. Wall would become public enemy number 1, instantly. A FF run with Wall at the PG, combined with an early round flameout when Drew gets victimized by some PG at a middling school, would have UNC fans howling at Roy.

Wall, come to Duke. Everybody secretly loves the villians the most. Not here in NC, obv. But the rest of the nation. And when you excell in that pressure cooker, and you will excell, every NBA team in the country will be gagging for you. There will be no doubts about your abilities as a baller, a leader, or a man. They will know that no opposing player or arena will get in your head.

Wall, come, to the dark side. Being Bad is more fun in the end.

[Kedsy]

Wall, come, to the dark side. Being Bad is more fun in the end.

Do you really think John Wall is reading your posts?

Besides, everybody knows UNC is the dark side.

[sagegrouse]

A). UNC hates Duke in a way that Duke does not hate UNC. Many of Duke's fans leave the state upon graduation. UNC's fans ARE the state. For them it is about locals vs outsiders, southerners vs Yankees. UNC will never be content with last year's success. They would like to beat Duke in CIS forever.


As one who can take an elevated view of these proceedings (the Sage Grouse's personal habitat is at 7,000 feet), I believe you are talking about the fan environment in the state of North Carolina. Typically, the most obnoxious fans in any state that support the state U. (esp. in Texas, Oklahoma, Alabama, and North Carolina) have only set foot on campus to go to the football stadium or basketball arena and are not alumni in any sense of the word.

Why does this matter? Those people are only in NC, and when you cross the border, they mysteriously disappear. The UNC grads I know in Colorado and elsewhere seem to masquerade, at least in my presence, as decent folk and friendly rivals.

sagegrouse

[SilkyJ]

Too me, Duke looks like a option for a national championship over Kentucky, if I were John Wall.

Do you think John Wall really cares about a national championship. this is a BUSINESS decision, to prepare him for the NBA. Winning a NC probably means being on a team with 3-5 other potential NBA draft picks, which means less shots for him and less opportunity to showcase his talent. So maybe that actually hurts our chances of landing him.

[roywhite]

I know you always regret the one that got away, but -- even so -- would you describe the following recruits from the last four recruiting classes as chopped liver?

McRoberts
Singler
Henderson
Scheyer
Nolan
EWill
LT

I mean, Carolina was truly lucky that Hansbrough, who was ranked below McBob, was so well-suited for the college game and was willing to stay four years and that Lawson, who was not as highly regarded as many other recruits, proved to be a stud.
Seriously, if we get three recruits every year who are in the top 30 and that K thinks are a good fit for his team, we are going to be a superb program. Does it really matter whether we recruit only three players and get them all or recruit ten players and get only three?

sagegrouse


Your overall point of good fortune factoring in is true. I'll take issue with your characterization of Lawson, who arrived as a highly-touted recruit. The good fortune there was that he stayed for 3 years (and got better) whereas as Michael Conley, another talented PG in that class, for example, went pro after his freshman year at Ohio State. As you say, Hansbrough turned out to be a terrific 4-year player, and Green and Ellington also stayed one year more than they might have preferred, making the 2009 team very powerful and experienced.

One of the keys seems to be maintaining a talented nucleus for two or three years. UConn, for example, seems to fall off sharply in their rebuilding years, but manage to put together a very good nucleus for a time and challenge for championships every few years.

[-jk]

Let's all calm down, folks. Attack the post, not the poster.

thanks,

-jk

[Sobriquet]

I know you always regret the one that got away, but -- even so -- would you describe the following recruits from the last four recruiting classes as chopped liver?

McRoberts
Singler
Henderson
Scheyer
Nolan
EWill
LT

I mean, Carolina was truly lucky that Hansbrough, who was ranked below McBob, was so well-suited for the college game and was willing to stay four years and that Lawson, who was not as highly regarded as many other recruits, proved to be a stud.

Seriously, if we get three recruits every year who are in the top 30 and that K thinks are a good fit for his team, we are going to be a superb program. Does it really matter whether we recruit only three players and get them all or recruit ten players and get only three?

sagegrouse

Yeah, Duke's 2005 class was a complete disaster. It hamstrung us for years to come. Only 2 of the class graduated from Duke, and virtually each player was a dissappointment.

UNC did get lucky with Hans. He was ideally suited for College ball, and he stayed four years, mainly because his family had no financial hardships, at all. Them's the breaks.

But, with regards to Lawson, Jigga Say What???!!!!

http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=9&c=4&cfg=bb&yr=2006

That is a link to Scout's overal ratings for the 06 recruiting Class. They list by position rather than overall rank, but take a look.

Lawson: Number 1 pg, absolutely correct.
Ellington: Number 1 sg. Not so much, but pretty darn good by the end of last year.
Wright: Number 1 pf. Left before he really did anything.

Lawson did not over achieve. He did exactly what everybody thought he would do. Be a stud and win an NC. It happened a year or two late, but it happened. I would have preferred a NC his frosh or soph year cause Hans woud have left, preserving JJ's record and eroding Han's legacy at UNC.

We got the No. 1 PG and No. 1 Pf in 2005 in Paulus and McBob.

UNC ended up with Lawson (06) and Hans. Whew.

As lackluster as the team has been the last couple of years, I do have to applaud K. Coaching regimes have collapsed due to far smaller recruiting busts than the 05 class. It was a bust at every single position, relative to their HS ranking, both as a group and their individual HS ranking.

McRoberts: Bust, relatively speeking
Singler: Great Player, but not yet an elite player
Henderson: Stud. Best of Luck
Scheyer: Solid to great player, but not a star
Nolan: Not yet living up to expectations.
EWill: Tons of potential, but he has a lot of work to do on his game.
LT: Not the player we hoped for, as yet.

The above list looked great on paper and in the recruiting services. But they have yet to produce anything at the college level. Sure, the services missed on all those players. But Roy wasn't ever even remotely interested in most of them (maybe G?). How did he see what K didn't?

[BlueinBlo]

Do you think John Wall really cares about a national championship. this is a BUSINESS decision, to prepare him for the NBA. Winning a NC probably means being on a team with 3-5 other potential NBA draft picks, which means less shots for him and less opportunity to showcase his talent. So maybe that actually hurts our chances of landing him.

But you just go ahead and bash coach K if we dont get him since you clearly know so much.

I think he cares about winning, who doesn't. If he cared so much about money, he would be playing in Europe next year.

To be the best, you have to beat the best. Out performing those other draft picks will go a lot further than being a crappy team and tearing it up, that's why Seth Curry transferred schools.

[stickdog]

Who knows what Meeks and PP do, but who is to say Cal wouldn't go w/ a 2 PG or 3 guard alignment? It already seems that most teams don't have a traditional lineup and start 3 guards, though it tends to be with two guards more of a off guard mold. Cal plays a full throttle attack game as it is, especially on the defensive end and to have both Bledsoe and Wall pressure the ball could be explosive. I'm of the glass if half full thinking regarding Duke's recruiting but to dismiss Wall to UK because of Bledsoe committing is a bit premature in my eyes. For the record I have soured on the Wall recruitment because of various issues involving Wall and Co. and I still believe we are in the mix until the end but Bledsoe's decision changes nothing in my eyes regarding Duke's chances.

Both Wall and Bledsoe are pass first penetrators. Neither player is proficient from beyond the arc. Both players are wizards with the ball.

Name the last time two top 5 point guards from the same class committed to the same college.

It's one thing to say that UK is not out of the battle. It's another thing completely to say that taking a commitment from the second best available PG has no bearing on the decision of the best available PG.

[gethlives]

Iyour non-graduate fans are a bunch of racist, anti-semitic hill-billies.

As a non-graduate of Carolina, who does happen to be a fan of the Tar Heels, I think I will choose to take offense at your characterization.

I have no doubt that there are racist, anti-Semitic Carolina fans. I have no doubt that there are racist anti-Semitic Duke fans as well.

I know you are trying to be funny here--but once again folks who try to look for reasons on why Carolina fans hate Duke or vice versa are missing the point. We hate Duke simply because you are Duke, and as much as we try to come up with reasons why, it comes down to that. And I imagine the same is true for you all about hating Carolina.

Really this whole tangent is not worthy of this Board.

[Sobriquet]

Do you really think John Wall is reading your posts?

Besides, everybody knows UNC is the dark side.

I include my little bon mot on the off chance he reads my posts. You never know.

I personally would peruse sites like this if I or my kid were a top notch player. Just in case.

As for being villians, we are. We just need to accept it. Duke is a private school full of smart kids. Not the type of private school for kids too dumb to get into the state school. The state of North Carolina is tremendously proud of Chapel Hill. It is one of the top universities in the country. We have an on going feud with Georgia about which state school was the first such university. (UGA was chartered first, UNC was operating first) That debate shows no signs of ending.

Duke is full of kids too smart to go to any state school in the nation. Our school is populated by the nerds that most state school goons beat up in HS (aka the glory years). Most Duke grads have their best years ahead of them. Most public school fans have already had their best years. Not necessarily the alums of the state schools, but most state school fans have no association with the state university other than taxes and fandom.

Every fan of every public school hates Duke. Not EVERY fan, but 98% or better.

We at Duke need to embrace this role. Heck, its a lot of fun. When I wear my Duke hat, and get ribbed by some UNC fan, I ask when they graduated from Chapel Hill. When they say they didn't actually go there, I respond with a comment about how they aren't real fans and their opinions don't matter. Usually while sneering (I am big enough to get away with it).

Me being nice isn't going to change their opinion.

We will never convince our haters that we are good guys. Our winning, our recruiting the right types of players (and don't think every UNC fan doesn't know in their Heart of Hearts that Rasheed was anything but a thug), and our academic excellance mean nothing. Most of it is something those outside our fan base will never understand or accept, much less ever hope to achieve.

Lets just embrace our villany. The best stories have the best villians.

Die Hard? Alan Rick was a great Villian.
Harry Potter? He Who Shall Not Be Named.
Every Wold War II movie? The Nazis

And finally,

STAR WARS: Darth Vader. The man. Well, cyborg I guess. It was never really addressed. Sure, the rest of the movie was great. But that ominous, powerful, purely evil villian was the lynch pin. Most elite level athletes believe they are better than other people. They have to.

At Duke, John Wall won't even have to pretend otherwise.

Choose Duke.

[SupaDave]

I know, it doesn't make sense. I should clarify that the anti-semitism does not apply to the student body or alumnus base. But most of NC are UNC fans, and they did not go to school there. Much of your fanbase has no real connection to the school, other than supporting it with their tax dollars. Heck, they could barely spell UNC.

I was born and raised in rural NC, and those fans are more colorful (despite being uniformly white).

I apologize to any UNC grad or student who took my comment ammiss. But your non-graduate fans are a bunch of racist, anti-semitic hill-billies. I know. I grew up with them.

Duke's large Jewish population (which I loved. Those Jews knew how to feed a man who was visiting their kid.) is a source of consternation to many rural fans (which is a large part of the state).

Many of these fans talk about "New York" yankees at Duke. That is code for New York "jews" who are apparantly all going to Hades. I must have slept through that sermon (as usual).

I take HIGH offense to this and it sounds quite idiotic to be honest.

As a person born and raised in Durham, this post is just ludicrous. "Those jews"? Wow. I'm not even Jewish and I'm offended.

Do a lot of my high school friends like UNC? You betcha. Do a lot of them like Duke? Most definitely and I have just as many friends who graduated from both.

The rivalry is understood from both sides - they are yin and yang.

[SupaDave]

I include my little bon mot on the off chance he reads my posts. You never know.

I personally would peruse sites like this if I or my kid were a top notch player. Just in case.

As for being villians, we are. We just need to accept it. Duke is a private school full of smart kids. Not the type of private school for kids too dumb to get into the state school. The state of North Carolina is tremendously proud of Chapel Hill. It is one of the top universities in the country. We have an on going feud with Georgia about which state school was the first such university. (UGA was chartered first, UNC was operating first) That debate shows no signs of ending.

Duke is full of kids too smart to go to any state school in the nation. Our school is populated by the nerds that most state school goons beat up in HS (aka the glory years). Most Duke grads have their best years ahead of them. Most public school fans have already had their best years. Not necessarily the alums of the state schools, but most state school fans have no association with the state university other than taxes and fandom.

Every fan of every public school hates Duke. Not EVERY fan, but 98% or better.

We at Duke need to embrace this role. Heck, its a lot of fun. When I wear my Duke hat, and get ribbed by some UNC fan, I ask when they graduated from Chapel Hill. When they say they didn't actually go there, I respond with a comment about how they aren't real fans and their opinions don't matter. Usually while sneering (I am big enough to get away with it).

Me being nice isn't going to change their opinion.

We will never convince our haters that we are good guys. Our winning, our recruiting the right types of players (and don't think every UNC fan doesn't know in their Heart of Hearts that Rasheed was anything but a thug), and our academic excellance mean nothing. Most of it is something those outside our fan base will never understand or accept, much less ever hope to achieve.

Lets just embrace our villany. The best stories have the best villians.

Die Hard? Alan Rick was a great Villian.
Harry Potter? He Who Shall Not Be Named.
Every Wold War II movie? The Nazis

And finally,

STAR WARS: Darth Vader. The man. Well, cyborg I guess. It was never really addressed. Sure, the rest of the movie was great. But that ominous, powerful, purely evil villian was the lynch pin. Most elite level athletes believe they are better than other people. They have to.

At Duke, John Wall won't even have to pretend otherwise.

Choose Duke.

Are you kidding me? So going to Duke makes you a BETTER fan? You do realize we are reading this idiocy right? I know people that have held seats in CIS since BEFORE you were born - and none of them graduated from Duke.

However, just about every high school student in Durham, NC has graduated in yes - Cameron Indoor Stadium.

Are you on drugs? This post will never convince anyone that YOU'RE a good guy...

[allenmurray]

I was born and raised in rural NC, and those fans are more colorful (despite being uniformly white).


Unless you are talking specifically about the western part of the state, you couldn't be more wrong. Most of rural NC has a very high African-American population - higher than the state or country average.


I apologize to any UNC grad or student who took my comment ammiss. But your non-graduate fans are a bunch of racist, anti-semitic hill-billies. I know. I grew up with them.

As someone with deep roots in rural NC I find your statement to be untrue. Perhaps the company you chose to keep was that way, but it is not my experience. I'll put my rural NC bona fides up against anyones. We are not all anti-semitic racist hillbillies, whether we graduated from UNC or not.

With statements like the ones you made above, is it any wonder that Duke fans are seen as elitist? Calling folks racist andanti-semitic with no proof or reason is hardly worthy of this board.

[derayb]

This thread has taken every twist and turn imaginable and I have to admit that I haven't read every page. I am though a little disappointed in the main theme of the last page and a half of comments so I pose the following question for your response to get the focus back on Wall.

I think there is a good argument to be made that John Wall needs Duke more than Duke needs John Wall. A few of the bases for my argument would be as follows:

1) Wall needs an image adjustment to solidify him as a top pick in next year's draft. Yes he is likely to go high anyway but he wants to be sure that he is going to maximize the money he might be able to make... i.e. be in line for endorsements as well as being taken high. Many of you don't seem to think so but I would bet a small fortune that Wall would be a choirboy while at Duke if he chose to come.

2) His real money is going to be made in the NBA as a distributor and not necessarily a scorer. I won't take the time to develop this as an argument here but those who have watched him play should know by now that his game is best suited for playing a style where he is pass first or finish off the drive.

3) People overlook his tenacious defensive skills which I think he really wishes to showcase as a part of his skill set. Cal's system isn't all that known for stressing tough defense (although I'd argue that Cal should get a little bit more credit than he does for that). Duke's best defender is almost always in the running for National Defensive Player of the Year.

4) Like them or not, Beckwith and Clifton have been good influences on Wall and although they wouldn't have the kind of access to him that they have now, they probably would have more if he stayed closer to home than if he were to go to Kentucky or the state of Florida.

5) Everyone has already seen what kind of things Wall can do in a free flowing NBA style offensive system but I think he'd gain the most from being able to showcase what he can do in a different type of system night in and night out against a level of competition that is consistently better across the board than the SEC is right now.

6) This one goes back to number one but I also want to add that showing everyone that he can handle the demands of a Coach like K and an academic atmosphere like the one at Duke would also put to rest all of the other "concerns" that people have raised about his character. For big man prospects I don't think character issues tend to matter as much on draft day but for wing players (given that they are usually plentiful) it can make a difference in terms of which slot you go.

7) JW's biggest percieved attribute is his quickness and I think playing at Duke will highlight that. Every time on the court he will be clearly the fastest man wearing royal blue and white... he might not get to show that off at any of his other choices (State and Baylor aside).

Any way...what do you all think? Again forgive me if this discussion to place earlier...I'm not reading back through over 2000 posts...

[JasonEvans]

As a Tar Heel fan who happens to be Jewish and who lives in North Carolina, I don't think it is particularly cool to accuse a fan base of being Anti-Semitic.

The owners and moderators of this site agree. This is not good conduct and Sobriquet has been cited for it. I urge others to express more restraint.

I will be deleting a number of posts that follow this one. Sobriquet's accusations of racism and anti-semitism are not something the DBR supports of endorses.

-Jason "very poor form" Evans

[roywhite]

I think there is a good argument to be made that John Wall needs Duke more than Duke needs John Wall. A few of the bases for my argument would be as follows:.....

Any way...what do you all think? Again forgive me if this discussion to place earlier...I'm not reading back through over 2000 posts...

All good points, derayb...

Calipari might note that he had Derrick Rose, who was not only one-and-done as a PG, but also the #1 overall NBA pick.

But the idea of John Wall and Duke being a good fit has been enough to keep me engaged in this story, even though some are discounting our chances.

We'll see sometime in the next couple of weeks, I'd guess.

[Bluedog]

Not that I necessarily trust everything Gottlieb says, but this is his opinion:


Brad (Sandusky, OH): Doug, should John Wall still consider Kentucky now that they have a solid PG in Eric Bledsoe?

SportsNation Doug Gottlieb: Listen, if Kentucky takes Bledsoe which they have, they are not getting wall. Period. End of story. That's how it works. It does't mean that Bledsoe is better than Wall or that Wall is scared of Bledsoe. But if you are in the running for the top point guard in the country and you take another top ten point guard, it's an obvious sign that Wall is not coming. Period.

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=26324

[JasonEvans]

IMO, Sobriquet's posts in this thread should be deleted.


By the way, for a guy who fancies himself an academic, his spelling is atrocious.

He has been sent "on vacation" by the mods and many of his posts are being culled from this thread. I am glad so many posters recognize that his comments are not acceptable. Even insults aimed at Carolina are not allowed if they fall into the mean-spirited realm that Sobriquet occupied.

-Jason "it was ugly folks... very ugly" Evans

[DukieBoy]

Would Wall coming to Duke affect G coming back at all or vice versa. Adding a top five recruit to an already great team has to influence G to want to play one more year. Could you imagine a lineup of...

PG - Wall
SG - Scheyer
SF - G
PF - Singler
C - Z/Thomas/Plumlees/Kelly

With Nolan and E-Will, both starters, being on the bench, we could have a truly special team. I think either way (Wall committing to Duke or G coming back) that has to affect the decision of the other. If I'm a top five recruit and know that, if I join the team, there is a REALLY good chance they could be national champions, then I have to think twice about coming back. Same with G. If one of your biggest weaknesses is filled with the best possible option, wouldn't you want to come back for one more shot?

[allenmurray]

He has been sent "on vacation" by the mods and many of his posts are being culled from this thread. I am glad so many posters recognize that his comments are not acceptable. Even insults aimed at Carolina are not allowed if they fall into the mean-spirited realm that Sobriquet occupied.

-Jason "it was ugly folks... very ugly" Evans

Thank you.

[Lord Ash]

I would think the Bledsoe thing would get a lot of mention here in the John Wall thread! I think this is a pretty big deal... it looks like Kentucky might be out of the running. It could look really good for us, but it could also be a nice turn for UNC, should they get seriously involved...

I am very curious as to when this all might end.

[blueprofessor]

As someone with deep roots in rural NC I find your statement to be untrue. Perhaps the company you chose to keep was that way, but it is not my experience. I'll put my rural NC bona fides up against anyones. We are not all anti-semitic racist hillbillies, whether we graduated from UNC or not.



I believe ,derayb, you are correct about why Wall should come to Duke. I posted earlier (days? weeks? years? ago) from the perspective of a parent (Wall's momma) who loved her son that Duke would be the best place for him to gain stability. He would be surrounded by people of high character and tough love who gave a damn about him as a person.
It would be a slam dunk for character and talent cultivation. If Wall were my son, he would be going to Duke.

Now, as far as rural Southerners being bigots...here goes. Rural folks often grew up in the South in a checkerboard living arrangement with blacks. I have had a ton of black friends tell me the rural and non-metro South was where they really knew who their white friends were.One was the local NCAA attorney who had gone to Columbia Law on an Earl Warren scholarship. Although our politics were often at odds, we spent many honest times talking from the heart about everything. Black classmates often remarked that there was an honesty between people of different races in the South ,as much as they hated the uncivil laws, and that they had experiences as I(and probably many, including Allen Murray and Stray Gator, on this board) in which their childhood buddies included kids of another race.

Bigotry exists and often in unexpected places. I was fortunate to attend 2 fine (supposedly progressive) schools in the North beginning in the mid 1960s. I had a strong Southern accent. I got into fights in college because I was looked at in a negative way by more sophisticated folks from north of the Maison Dixon line. After the grades came out and after more than a few fist fights,my circumstances changed for the better. Still some folks had hated me because of my accent.To them I had to have been a Klansman because of my origin. I think growing up in the rural South is a blessing and I remember vividly being instructed by my parents (also rural Southerners) to respect every man and woman and to admire anyone who did a good job in something (painting, shining shoes, teaching). This was true of people of all races and religions---some of my Jewish pals had more pronounced Southern accents than I.
Sobriquet, you might consider that stereotypes are often wrong.It is a form of bigotry ,as well, to classify people (as groups) unfairly.You obviously are a pretty smart person so maybe you can realize that bigots exist everywhere and that there is also a lot of goodness everywhere.
Best regards--Blueprofessor:)

[BlueinBlo]

I would think the Bledsoe thing would get a lot of mention here in the John Wall thread! I think this is a pretty big deal... it looks like Kentucky might be out of the running. It could look really good for us, but it could also be a nice turn for UNC, should they get seriously involved...

I am very curious as to when this all might end.

It's looking like May 20th will be the big day.

Well, I hope so.


It’s time to wrap this up. If things aren’t clear to Wall now, whatever additional information he gets between now and May 20th (Wall’s supposed deadline, according to Kentucky Sports Radio) could only be confusing.

http://www.850thebuzz.com/blog/?p=9496

[TheBrianZoubekExperience]

Why is May 20th the suppossed deadline? I noticed SATs dont come out until the next day so if that is the hold up then he won't have his scores by the 20th.

[BlueinBlo]

Why is May 20th the suppossed deadline? I noticed SATs dont come out until the next day so if that is the hold up then he won't have his scores by the 20th.
It's like the last day in the spring signing period. Also, it is very late to pick a college anyways. I mean after he picks, in three months he will be taking classes.

[Chicago 1995]

It's like the last day in the spring signing period. .

Wall can wait to commit until after the 20th. Letting that deadline lapse has no bearing.

Now the KSR report that he wants to do it on the 20th is something different, but there is nothing compelling him to make a decison at any point prior to the close of enrollment at any of the colleges he's interested in. They'll all hold a spot for him, I'd assume.

I'd just as soon he gets it over with, since I'm a pessimist, and would prefer not waiting on what I assume will be bad news.

[superdave]

3) People overlook his tenacious defensive skills which I think he really wishes to showcase as a part of his skill set. Cal's system isn't all that known for stressing tough defense (although I'd argue that Cal should get a little bit more credit than he does for that). Duke's best defender is almost always in the running for National Defensive Player of the Year.


Didnt Memphis have one of the better defensive teams in the country this past year?

With Nolan in the game, Wall could also play the 2 on the defensive end because of his height. Could be a wrecking ball D again.

[TheBrianZoubekExperience]

Wall can wait to commit until after the 20th. Letting that deadline lapse has no bearing.

Now the KSR report that he wants to do it on the 20th is something different, but there is nothing compelling him to make a decison at any point prior to the close of enrollment at any of the colleges he's interested in. They'll all hold a spot for him, I'd assume.

I'd just as soon he gets it over with, since I'm a pessimist, and would prefer not waiting on what I assume will be bad news.

Right. I was wondering if that was a deadline given to Wall by Kentucky. If his SAT score is actually important to Duke and we are waiting on the scores to come out on the 21st then maybe setting a deadline of the 20th makes sense since it forces him to decide on Kentucky (if he really thinks they won't take him after their deadline which I would doubt) before he finds out his scores.

[BlueintheFace]

This thread is escalating in the crazy department as Wall's decision grows closer.

[SushiChef]

One was the local NCAA attorney who had gone to Columbia Law on an Earl Warren scholarship.

Did you mean NAACP attorney?

[blueprofessor]

Did you mean NAACP attorney?

Yes. Thanks, SushiChief. NAACP attorney. Overwhelmed by rural area and Wall recruitment.:)
Best--Blueprofessor

[derayb]

Didnt Memphis have one of the better defensive teams in the country this past year?

With Nolan in the game, Wall could also play the 2 on the defensive end because of his height. Could be a wrecking ball D again.

Memphis was highly ranked defensively last year but I think a lot of people (incorrectly) wrote that off to poor competition in C-USA.

I agree with you about Wall playing the 2 on D from time to time... that would be scary!

[derayb]

It's like the last day in the spring signing period. Also, it is very late to pick a college anyways. I mean after he picks, in three months he will be taking classes.

This raises another question for me... if he is borderline academically wouldn't it be better for him to go ahead and commit and possibly enroll in summer school? How does that work...is there an absolute NCAA deadline for qualifying or can a player who doesn't quite have the GPA and test score combination get a waiver to take "remedial" type classes to get up to standard... Now that I've written that thought, I guess I can see the flaw in that... University X could give said player credit for taking bogus classes just to reach whatever standard needed to be met...never mind

[johaad]

I've learned during this recruiting process never to take anything very seriously but I thought I would share this. A few poster at TDD have said that Wall is supposed to visit Duke tomorrow. They seem to be fairly respected posters but who knows? Lets hope its good.

[NYDukie]

Both Wall and Bledsoe are pass first penetrators. Neither player is proficient from beyond the arc. Both players are wizards with the ball.

Name the last time two top 5 point guards from the same class committed to the same college.

It's one thing to say that UK is not out of the battle. It's another thing completely to say that taking a commitment from the second best available PG has no bearing on the decision of the best available PG.

Did not say taking the second best PG would have completely no impact on Wall. On the contrary, many were implying that Bledsoe going to UK would seem to make Wall a Duke commit. All I was saying was not to discount the possibility that Wall still may very well end up at UK even with Bledsoe there. Have two top PGs committed to the same school in the same year? I don't know but I do know that there have been PGs from different classes play together on the same team such as Westbrook/Collison at UCLA and Collins/Chalmers at KU last year, Kemba Walker/Price at UConn and Reynolds/Fisher at Nova this year. And those teams fare pretty well. Yes, they are different types of PGs compared to Wall/Bledsoe but the precedent is there to play two PGs together. Do I personally think Bledsoe's decision will impact Wall's? Yes I do but to what extent? We shall see soon enough.

[BlueinBlo]

I've learned during this recruiting process never to take anything very seriously but I thought I would share this. A few poster at TDD have said that Wall is supposed to visit Duke tomorrow. They seem to be fairly respected posters but who knows? Lets hope its good.

This may be a stupid question but what is TDD.

[NYDukie]

This may be a stupid question but what is TDD.

TheDevilsDen.com

[DUKIE V(A)]

If we somehow end up with JWall, what would the over/under on posts in this thread before someone complained about us not getting what they deem a legit bigman? I'd put it at 3.

[NYDukie]

I wanted to get away from the Duke verse Kentucky angle in the Wall saga and ask the board members who they thought would be most positively impacted by a Wall commitment, should he commit? I'm thinking EWill. Athletically, EWill and Wall would be the most equal and the thought of them on the break would be sick. On top of that, I believe their defensive pressure potential would be the spark to such a fastbreak fury. As for the half court game, I think Wall's ability to create and get the basket would allow EWill to float in as a filler in the lane and finish off Wall's passes either in the lane or off a lob to the basket.

Your thoughts are much appreciated.

[FireOgilvie]

I wanted to get away from the Duke verse Kentucky angle in the Wall saga and ask the board members who they thought would be most positively impacted by a Wall commitment, should he commit? I'm thinking EWill. Athletically, EWill and Wall would be the most equal and the thought of them on the break would be sick. On top of that, I believe their defensive pressure potential would be the spark to such a fastbreak fury. As for the half court game, I think Wall's ability to create and get the basket would allow EWill to float in as a filler in the lane and finish off Wall's passes either in the lane or off a lob to the basket.

Your thoughts are much appreciated.

Definitely the big men, especially the Plumlees due to their ability to run and finish hard at the rim. Penetrate, dish, and dunk. With a penetrating PG, all of our big men will finally see consistent "easy" FGs for the first time in their careers.

[Greg_Newton]

If you've read any reader comments on any of the UK articles about Wall or Bledsoe, you've no doubt seen some mention of a "Worldwide Wes" character (calling him Cal's secret weapon, his "big gun", etc.). If you've been curious who in the world they're talking about, this is a pretty interesting read on him: http://men.style.com/gq/features/full?id=content_5735

Recruiting is just such a strange world...

[moonpie23]

If we somehow end up with JWall, what would the over/under on posts in this thread before someone complained about us not getting what they deem a legit bigman? I'd put it at 3.

i'll take the under......put me down. i'm good for it..

[Faison1]

If we somehow end up with JWall, what would the over/under on posts in this thread before someone complained about us not getting what they deem a legit bigman? I'd put it at 3.

Dude...unless I am misunderstanding you, the bigman complaint happened 4 posts before yours.....check out post #2084.

Congrats to everyone on getting over 2000 posts....I think we went from @1,800 to almost 2,100 in 2 days. That's impressive. Or pathetic. Depends, I guess.

[DukieBoy]

Dude...unless I am misunderstanding you, the bigman complaint happened 4 posts before yours.....check out post #2084.

Congrats to everyone on getting over 2000 posts....I think we went from @1,800 to almost 2,100 in 2 days. That's impressive. Or pathetic. Depends, I guess.

Pathetically impressive?

[Indoor66]

Pathetically impressive?

Heavy, heavy on the pathetic! :confused:

[PSurprise]

Pathetically impressive?

Impressively pathetic.

[Faison1]

Pathetically impressive?

Thank you for helping me with that.....

As I read/wade through this thread trying to find any kind of fact, or at the very least, rumor, I have started to wonder what overall direction this board is taking. Have the moderators decided to let this insanity run its course, then restore order? Or have all sane/respectable posters simply decided to stay away? Only time will tell.

Hopefully this will all be over soon, and I pray the insanity of this thread does not trickle into other areas of a wonderful idea....that idea being the Elizabeth King Forum.

[speedevil2001]

While adding John Wall would give Duke a true PG and some depth aside Jon-Nolan-Elliott, it does not solve Duke's more major problem of getting a jumbo sized productive center.

With or without Wall, Duke's only two legitimate candidates are Miles Plumlee and Brian Zoubek. Besides being freshmen, Mason and Kelly are tall but lack weight, strength and experience. Lance is experienced but lacks height weight and strength.

Zoubek is what he is and Jumbo's stats prove he is one of Duke's most productive +/- players a fact not immediately evident from mere observations without metrics, a case of substance over form.

Miles appeared to have the potential at beginning of last year and for whatever reasons faded, but he could work on those deficiencies in off season.

Realistically Mason and Ryan Kelly even on a rigorous strength and conditioning program will take a year to get up to size.

Wall would be an improvement, but Nolan-Jon-Elliott are sufficient in a two guard set. Wall also gives coach K the flexibility to play either a two guard or a three guard set, something both practice teams cannot do with only 4 guards counting Curry unless Jordan Davidson is available.

So adding John Wall would be an overall plus but not necessarily the silver bullet some are making him out to be. Having teammates like Jon, Kyle, Elliott, Nolan and whichever bigs surface will make Wall as productive as any other college teammates next year.

Despite the UK Propaganda, Wall would learn more practicing daily vs. Nolan, Jon and Elliot than vs. Bledsoe who like Wall only has High School and AAU experience.

how many jumbo size productive center's are out there available to sign with Duke?
Plus Duke did sign Mason Plumlee. He will be the starting 5 for Duke.

John Wall is the #1 rated point guard that is available to sign with Duke if he chooses. A point guard will never solve the problem of a center, but he does solve Duke's problem of not having a legit point guard to run Coach K system.

[speedevil2001]

If we somehow end up with JWall, what would the over/under on posts in this thread before someone complained about us not getting what they deem a legit bigman? I'd put it at 3.

you should start a poll in a different tread. lol
but ill say before wall even signs with duke...ala accbballfan.

[johaad]

Thank you for helping me with that.....

As I read/wade through this thread trying to find any kind of fact, or at the very least, rumor, I have started to wonder what overall direction this board is taking. Have the moderators decided to let this insanity run its course, then restore order? Or have all sane/respectable posters simply decided to stay away? Only time will tell.

Hopefully this will all be over soon, and I pray the insanity of this thread does not trickle into other areas of a wonderful idea....that idea being the Elizabeth King Forum.

I know what you mean. I think we are all just grasping at anything we can get our hands on because really, there is not much (relevant and new) public information about the situation.

[ChicagoCrazy84]

How did this get turned into the big man thread? Anyway, does anyone else think John Wall should just say the heck with it and go to Europe? I think the NBA thing has passed. Didn't underclassmem have to delcare by April 20 something anyway? I just don't care for this anymore. He has dragged this on for way too long and you know he has so much time on his hands since the basketball season ended. He doesn't do anything else in school, he's a senior. This should be plenty of time for him to sit down with his parents/coaches and at the absolute least, shorten his list. I think the truth is, he doesn't care enough. He'll put on a show and say all the right things to the right people, but at the end of the day, IMO, he could care less. He's not losing any sleep over this and saying "God help me pick the right school for me! Some people will say I don't know him and I am judging, which you could be right, but the kids that care know what is a right fit for them because they care enough to pay attention and they have a good repoire with the coaches. There is no ONE school out there for him or anyone for that matter. It's all about finding a right fit and for him, the right fit is not on a college campus. Just do us a favor John and call it a day. Go to Italy!

[houstondukie]

How did this get turned into the big man thread? Anyway, does anyone else think John Wall should just say the heck with it and go to Europe? I think the NBA thing has passed. Didn't underclassmem have to delcare by April 20 something anyway? I just don't care for this anymore. He has dragged this on for way too long and you know he has so much time on his hands since the basketball season ended. He doesn't do anything else in school, he's a senior. This should be plenty of time for him to sit down with his parents/coaches and at the absolute least, shorten his list. I think the truth is, he doesn't care enough. He'll put on a show and say all the right things to the right people, but at the end of the day, IMO, he could care less. He's not losing any sleep over this and saying "God help me pick the right school for me! Some people will say I don't know him and I am judging, which you could be right, but the kids that care know what is a right fit for them because they care enough to pay attention and they have a good repoire with the coaches. There is no ONE school out there for him or anyone for that matter. It's all about finding a right fit and for him, the right fit is not on a college campus. Just do us a favor John and call it a day. Go to Italy!

I agree.

How hard is it to at least cut your list of 8 schools down? I read somewhere that some of the schools on his list have stopped recruiting him, at least not very hard, because they know they have no realistic shot. So why does Wall still list them?

[Kedsy]

Anyway, does anyone else think John Wall should just say the heck with it and go to Europe? I think the NBA thing has passed. Didn't underclassmem have to delcare by April 20 something anyway? I just don't care for this anymore. He has dragged this on for way too long and you know he has so much time on his hands since the basketball season ended. He doesn't do anything else in school, he's a senior. This should be plenty of time for him to sit down with his parents/coaches and at the absolute least, shorten his list. I think the truth is, he doesn't care enough. He'll put on a show and say all the right things to the right people, but at the end of the day, IMO, he could care less. He's not losing any sleep over this and saying "God help me pick the right school for me! Some people will say I don't know him and I am judging, which you could be right, but the kids that care know what is a right fit for them because they care enough to pay attention and they have a good repoire with the coaches. There is no ONE school out there for him or anyone for that matter. It's all about finding a right fit and for him, the right fit is not on a college campus. Just do us a favor John and call it a day. Go to Italy!


I agree.

How hard is it to at least cut your list of 8 schools down? I read somewhere that some of the schools on his list have stopped recruiting him, at least not very hard, because they know they have no realistic shot. So why does Wall still list them?

You are acting like John Wall owes something to somebody and there's some sort of recruiting etiquette he has to live up to. But he doesn't and there isn't.

He should be forced to choose a school (or cut down his list) because you are impatient? Why should he care about that? Who is he hurting by waiting?

I understand why this thread is so long. I've been checking it several times a day, too. But I don't understand why people seem indignant about the way this young man is going about deciding where he's going to spend (at least) the next year of his life. Because it is his life, not yours.

[stickdog]

How did this get turned into the big man thread? Anyway, does anyone else think John Wall should just say the heck with it and go to Europe? !
Eddy Landreth, is that you?

[roywhite]

There is a premium article on Rivals with some quotes from Wall. He indicates he will soon (by today 5/7 or by "the end of the week") cut his list down, that his relationship with the coach is the most important factor, and that Kentucky will definitely make the cut.

[Truth]

There is a premium article on Rivals with some quotes from Wall. He indicates he will soon (by today 5/7 or by "the end of the week") cut his list down, that his relationship with the coach is the most important factor, and that Kentucky will definitely make the cut.

Be very careful with sharing premium information. I realize you didn't share the article, but sharing the overall message is just as bad...

[roywhite]

Be very careful with sharing premium information. I realize you didn't share the article, but sharing the overall message is just as bad...

Feel free to delete if against policy. Sorry.

Just trying to bring some news to our long thread.

[DUKIE V(A)]

In answer to the question who would benefit most on our team from the addition of John Wall, I would say Scheyer. JS would not have as much ball-handingly responsibility and would be the beneficiary of a ton of open three pointers due to JW's ability to penetrate and hit the open man. My second vote would be Singler. JW's addition would prevent teams from being able to load up as much on KS.

[devildeac]

There is a premium article on Rivals with some quotes from Wall. He indicates he will soon (by today 5/7 or by "the end of the week") cut his list down, that his relationship with the coach is the most important factor, and that Kentucky will definitely make the cut.

Tim Stephens, from the N&O had a nice piece on JW recently and discussed all we have here but also that he's never had a negative moment/interview with JW and discussed how he was always polite and eager to please the coaches that are recruiting him. In fact, his AAU coach made him promise not to commit during a visit as he said John would commit to every school he visited (paraphrased). This gives me a bit more understanding into the very complex process it is and the dilemma he is having. Tim seems to be a pretty good guy and I don't reacall him grinding many axes like Tudor, DeCrock (sic) and Gigolo (sic) do on a regular Duke-hating basis.

[sagegrouse]

Gigolo (sic) do on a regular Duke-hating basis.

It's J.P. Giglio, but the mistake is understandable (and probably intentional) as, in the words of the old Louie Prima song, he is "Just a Gigolo."

sagegrouse

[devildeac]

It's J.P. Giglio, but the mistake is understandable (and probably intentional) as, in the words of the old Louie Prima song, he is "Just a Gigolo."

sagegrouse

It was intentional. He and DeCrock (again, intentional) have a column called Rim Shots (though I REALLY want to misspell shots, too:D:o) which routinely takes swipes at our beloved Devils and NCSU and not-so-often at the team 8 miles south on 15-501.

[Virginian]

Be very careful with sharing premium information. I realize you didn't share the article, but sharing the overall message is just as bad...

The short report on the upshot of the article is perfectly legal and reasonable under the fair use exception in the Copyright Act. It's just like saying "hey, I read in the Wall St. Journal today that six banks, including Goldman Sachs, got a clean bill of health in the government's stress test."

These threads are full of synopses that people offer from things they have read that came from copyrighted and for-fee sources. As long as we aren't copying significant sections of such source material, there's nothing "bad" about it at all.

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

The short report on the upshot of the article is perfectly legal and reasonable under the fair use exception in the Copyright Act. It's just like saying "hey, I read in the Wall St. Journal today that six banks, including Goldman Sachs, got a clean bill of health in the government's stress test."

These threads are full of synopses that people offer from things they have read that came from copyrighted and for-fee sources. As long as we aren't copying significant sections of such source material, there's nothing "bad" about it at all.

I don't want to move this entire behemoth into the PPB, but I think there's a very strong argument under the Harper & Row line of cases that posting premium information would be considered taking the "heart of the work (http://www.copyright.com/Services/copyrightoncampus/basics/fairuse_heart.html)."

I'm as happy to see premium info as the next guy (and much less willing to shell out $ for info that will be public soon enough anyway) but it's arguably not fair use, it's probably a violation of the terms of any premium site, and it's definitely not acting in good faith to re-post premium info on a free site, IMO.

[derayb]

This is an article by Greg Doyle which gives the best take I've seen so far on the John Wall incident... I hate what he called my friends in blue...err...light blue and gray...but good read nonetheless...

http://www.cbssports.com/columns/story/11719553

[Scorp4me]

You are acting like John Wall owes something to somebody and there's some sort of recruiting etiquette he has to live up to. But he doesn't and there isn't.

While that's true, a school also has no recruiting etiquette it has to live up to either. It can just as easily say "thanks but no thanks" for continuing to drag everyone's chain around. Not saying that is happening or should happen, I try to let Duke decide that. But the fact is just as kids can lose interest in a school, the opposite can happen based on the recruitment.

[ChicagoCrazy84]

You are acting like John Wall owes something to somebody and there's some sort of recruiting etiquette he has to live up to. But he doesn't and there isn't.

He should be forced to choose a school (or cut down his list) because you are impatient? Why should he care about that? Who is he hurting by waiting?

I understand why this thread is so long. I've been checking it several times a day, too. But I don't understand why people seem indignant about the way this young man is going about deciding where he's going to spend (at least) the next year of his life. Because it is his life, not yours.


I am impatient, but that is not the reason why I feel the way I do. I DO think there is a certain etiquette that these kids should follow, there is just nothing in writing. These kids should feel honored any time a school comes to them asking if they want to play basketball. I was recruited to play golf at a few schools and any time I got a letter in the mail, I got goosebumps. So, I do think these kids should respect the process more and it has nothing to do with impatience. Take last week for example, Mr. Wall said he was going to visit NC Central and see what a true black college could do for him and he didn't even go. I just think he is giving some schools the run around and it makes it seem like he is waiting so long for all the wrong reasons. Picking a college is one of the most important decisions a 17 yo kid makes, whether they are planning on being an athlete or just finding a good business program or whatever it may be. It doesn't take a kid that long to find a good fit and it is because they go somewhere and they are proactively looking for all the positives and negatives and they look to see where they are comfortable. In all the visits he has made and all the talks and meetings he has had, if you can't get comfortable somewhere and say "Wow, I like it here", look for other options and that other option is Europe where he can just concentrate on basketball.

[Kedsy]

While that's true, a school also has no recruiting etiquette it has to live up to either. It can just as easily say "thanks but no thanks" for continuing to drag everyone's chain around. Not saying that is happening or should happen, I try to let Duke decide that. But the fact is just as kids can lose interest in a school, the opposite can happen based on the recruitment.

True, but nobody around here is complaining about that. They're complaining about the kid who can't make up his mind. And they shouldn't. IMO, anyway.

[umdukie]

Some of my friends told me today that John Wall is visiting Coach K today and is on campus right now. Is there any truth to this? Moderators, feel free to remove this post if it counts as rumor mongering.

[Kedsy]

Picking a college is one of the most important decisions a 17 yo kid makes, whether they are planning on being an athlete or just finding a good business program or whatever it may be. It doesn't take a kid that long to find a good fit and it is because they go somewhere and they are proactively looking for all the positives and negatives and they look to see where they are comfortable. In all the visits he has made and all the talks and meetings he has had, if you can't get comfortable somewhere and say "Wow, I like it here", look for other options and that other option is Europe where he can just concentrate on basketball.

I completely disagree. When I was trying to pick a college, I had four very good, very different options, so good and so different I found it impossible to choose among them. I finally narrowed it down to two but I just couldn't pull the trigger. I wanted to flip a coin but I knew if I did I wouldn't trust a single coin flip (OK, let's make it two out of three, etc.), so I snuck into the computer room after school and wrote a program that would electronically flip a coin 10,000 times and then tell me which school won. In retrospect, I am really glad the program typed out "You are going to Duke," but my point is my inability to make up my mind was not because I didn't like any of the options but exactly the opposite: I loved them all, but none of them seemed head and shoulders better than the others.

And I imagine it's that much harder for someone like John Wall, who has so many famous and talented coaches all whispering in his ear about how wonderful it would be at their school. It doesn't surprise me he's having problems picking a school; to me, the real wonder is how so many top players find it so easy to decide.

[dubayuw]

I completely disagree. When I was trying to pick a college, I had four very good, very different options, so good and so different I found it impossible to choose among them. I finally narrowed it down to two but I just couldn't pull the trigger. I wanted to flip a coin but I knew if I did I wouldn't trust a single coin flip (OK, let's make it two out of three, etc.), so I snuck into the computer room after school and wrote a program that would electronically flip a coin 10,000 times and then tell me which school won. In retrospect, I am really glad the program typed out "You are going to Duke," but my point is my inability to make up my mind was not because I didn't like any of the options but exactly the opposite: I loved them all, but none of them seemed head and shoulders better than the others.

Cool story and good point. Its very easy to get mad at Wall over the situation but in the end he is only 19 and is making the most important decision of his life thus far.

[El_Diablo]

I snuck into the computer room after school and wrote a program that would electronically flip a coin 10,000 times and then tell me which school won.

Wow...great story!

I hope Wall isn't doing this. ;)

[roywhite]

I completely disagree. When I was trying to pick a college, I had four very good, very different options, so good and so different I found it impossible to choose among them. I finally narrowed it down to two but I just couldn't pull the trigger. I wanted to flip a coin but I knew if I did I wouldn't trust a single coin flip (OK, let's make it two out of three, etc.), so I snuck into the computer room after school and wrote a program that would electronically flip a coin 10,000 times and then tell me which school won. In retrospect, I am really glad the program typed out "You are going to Duke," but my point is my inability to make up my mind was not because I didn't like any of the options but exactly the opposite: I loved them all, but none of them seemed head and shoulders better than the others.

And I imagine it's that much harder for someone like John Wall, who has so many famous and talented coaches all whispering in his ear about how wonderful it would be at their school. It doesn't surprise me he's having problems picking a school; to me, the real wonder is how so many top players find it so easy to decide.

Great story; you even worked in the "Breaking and Entering" part...:)

[SushiChef]

I completely disagree. When I was trying to pick a college, I had four very good, very different options, so good and so different I found it impossible to choose among them. I finally narrowed it down to two but I just couldn't pull the trigger. I wanted to flip a coin but I knew if I did I wouldn't trust a single coin flip (OK, let's make it two out of three, etc.), so I snuck into the computer room after school and wrote a program that would electronically flip a coin 10,000 times and then tell me which school won. In retrospect, I am really glad the program typed out "You are going to Duke," but my point is my inability to make up my mind was not because I didn't like any of the options but exactly the opposite: I loved them all, but none of them seemed head and shoulders better than the others.

And I imagine it's that much harder for someone like John Wall, who has so many famous and talented coaches all whispering in his ear about how wonderful it would be at their school. It doesn't surprise me he's having problems picking a school; to me, the real wonder is how so many top players find it so easy to decide.


Are you sure you simulated a fair coin? Or did you have a prior to skew the probabilities in Duke's favor?

[derayb]

Good read here... http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4149709&name=katz_andy

[ChicagoCrazy84]

That wasn't a good read at all! It basically said if it wasn't for Clifton, Duke wouldn't have a chance. I hope that he now goes to Miami so we can beat up on them 2 times during the season and maybe Plumlee can give him a shiner or something.

[Kedsy]

Are you sure you simulated a fair coin? Or did you have a prior to skew the probabilities in Duke's favor?

Well, it's funny you say that, because I used the random generator that came with the programming language (which I think was BASIC; this was a pretty long time ago), but the count came out approximately 5900 for Duke and 4100 for my second choice, a skew that is statistically improbable to say the least. So either the computer (or the fates or a higher being/Duke fan) really wanted me to go to Duke (which is the interpretation I made when I saw the results, after I checked the program several times and determined it wasn't programmer error) or something was wrong with the random generator.

I'm just hoping John Wall uses the same program...

[NYDukie]

Good read here... http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4149709&name=katz_andy

What I don't understand that if what Katz says is true, why is Wall to have supposedly visited Duke today? If he did visit Duke today, and please feel free to clarify if he did anyone, was it a makeup date scheduled for the postponed visit from a couple of weeks ago?

Just when you think you start to understand what is going on, another article or incident happens to make the Wall recruitment even more confusing and interesting depending on where you sit on the fence!!!!

[Mike Corey]

I hope that he now goes to Miami so we can beat up on them 2 times during the season and maybe Plumlee can give him a shiner or something.

I sincerely hope that you were not being serious when you wrote this; and I sincerely hope this is not something you joke about in the future.

[KrazyKfan]

I sincerely hope that you were not being serious when you wrote this; and I sincerely hope this is not something you joke about in the future.

Everybody's just a little tired of the whole JWall recruiting saga and we desperately want it to end in our favor. If it doesn't, well some of us would love to prove that JWall's decision was a poor one.

[Devil07]

Everybody's just a little tired of the whole JWall recruiting saga and we desperately want it to end in our favor. If it doesn't, well some of us would love to prove that JWall's decision was a poor one.

I'm sorry but I just don't get that. There's no reason to take Wall's decision personally. It's his choice and he's entitled to make it. I understand being disappointed if he goes elsewhere (and being ready for this to end) but if that's the choice he makes then that's where it ends for me. What is there to be gained by trying to "prove" that he made a poor choice. It would be like if after I chose to go to Duke the other schools I had considered felt the need to show me what I was missing. I sincerely hope that if John decides to go elsewhere people on this board can understand that this is recruiting and not a personal rejection. Disappointment is one thing, but holding a grudge or lashing out is just counterproductive in my opinion.

As for the actual recruitment, I find Katz's article to be somewhat disheartening. I would hate to think that Clifton is pushing Duke out of his own self-interest and frankly, if John comes here I hope that it's because Duke is where he wants to be. I take all these articles with a grain of salt, but ultimately I think it's best for all involved (including Duke) if John goes to the school that he thinks is best for him. I hope that place is Duke, but if not, so be it.

[SilkyJ]

What I don't understand that if what Katz says is true, why is Wall to have supposedly visited Duke today? If he did visit Duke today, and please feel free to clarify if he did anyone, was it a makeup date scheduled for the postponed visit from a couple of weeks ago?

Just when you think you start to understand what is going on, another article or incident happens to make the Wall recruitment even more confusing and interesting depending on where you sit on the fence!!!!

It probably is a resked of sorts, but he's taken lots of meetings. It could mean anything, everything, or nothing. So don't let it bother you. He's still in the process of TRIMMING his list folks, so chill.


If it doesn't, well some of us would love to prove that JWall's decision was a poor one.

No offense, but most of the people acting crazy over this, and I would include wanting revenge on a recruit we didnt land pretty crazy (its not like he'll have decommitted or something, he might just chose another place) have post counts under 100. You guys ought to chill out and read some of the veteran guys' posts for some perspective.

Try searching in this thread (or board for that matter) for jason_evans, jimsumner, carlos, olympicfan, stray gator, Bob Green. They have some good perspective to lend...

[verga]

its not about reading someone, who made sense to you or who you thought took a logical approach to the subject. its about a message board, where people get to blow off steam. The posters deserve to vent and make their opinions known. Who knows what will happen with Wall, i certainly don't and i know more basketball than 3/4 of the people here. If Wall goes somewhere else, it will be the last time i speak of him, why should i? If he comes to Duke, i'll cheer for him. We have made far too much of a player who has a shaky jump shot and throws balls away with regularity (sounds a little like Bobby Hurley, his freshman year lol). He is a great athlete and can jump with the best but is he a Duke kid, i don't know. We have gotten way to deep into this situation, its basketball, not rocket science (is that hard?). In closing i'd like to say that the first 10 years of this endless recruitment was fun, the last 10, not so much, i'm ready for it to be over. If he comes, he comes, if not, well you get the picture. Now Harrison Barnes, thats a whole new level of torment.

[Kedsy]

i know more basketball than 3/4 of the people here.

I'm interested in how you arrived at this calculation?

[BlueintheFace]

I'm interested in how you arrived at this calculation?

me too, is there like a formula or is this kind of just by feel?

[johaad]

It probably is a resked of sorts, but he's taken lots of meetings. It could mean anything, everything, or nothing. So don't let it bother you. He's still in the process of TRIMMING his list folks, so chill.



No offense, but most of the people acting crazy over this, and I would include wanting revenge on a recruit we didnt land pretty crazy (its not like he'll have decommitted or something, he might just chose another place) have post counts under 100. You guys ought to chill out and read some of the veteran guys' posts for some perspective.

Try searching in this thread (or board for that matter) for jason_evans, jimsumner, carlos, olympicfan, stray gator, Bob Green. They have some good perspective to lend...

I agree with this. I have found many of those people to have very informative posts with good information. I do want to say that the reason I prefer DBR over TDD is because of the GENERAL attitude. Usually, this place is more relaxed. It is usually a place where intelligent conversations can go on about important aspects of Duke Basketball. Lately though, I've noticed a change. Things have become negative. Posts are off topic (like this one). And worse than anything, people seem to be fighting. Lets just remember, we are Duke. And that means we support the program, with or without a recruit. Lets look forward to next season and seeing our Blue Devils beat up the competition.

Mods, I know I am off topic so feel free to delete if necessary. I just felt this needed to be said.

[gep]

I would hate to think that Clifton is pushing Duke out of his own self-interest and frankly, if John comes here I hope that it's because Duke is where he wants to be. I take all these articles with a grain of salt, but ultimately I think it's best for all involved (including Duke) if John goes to the school that he thinks is best for him. I hope that place is Duke, but if not, so be it.

What's best for him? If it's really him that matters? Then, I don't see unc as out of the picture.:rolleyes:

[ChicagoCrazy84]

I sincerely hope that you were not being serious when you wrote this; and I sincerely hope this is not something you joke about in the future.

Why are you taking that so personally?... or seriously? Calm down. It was just a joke stemming from the small reports saying Miami could be his destination. I really didn't think I would get this kind of reaction, just a few chuckles.

[JBDuke]

... its about a message board, where people get to blow off steam. The posters deserve to vent and make their opinions known. Who knows what will happen with Wall, i certainly don't and i know more basketball than 3/4 of the people here....

A couple of things.

First of all, please try to use proper punctuation and grammar - it makes reading posts much easier. Also, readers are more likely to discount your opinion if you can't even be bothered to write properly.

Second, I don't know which message boards you frequent, but DBR is most certainly NOT a place where "posters deserve to vent". Venting is DISCOURAGED here. If you need to vent, go somewhere else. We strive for a higher level of discourse, despite what you may read elsewhere in this thread.

As for knowing "more basketball than 3/4 of the people here", be careful what you assume. We have some true experts that read an occasionally post here.

[ChicagoCrazy84]

I think that I just realized what the problem is here. We as Duke fans have been so spoiled over recruits in the decade that when the first reports of someone picking another school over Duke, we get bent out of shape. I know this is me for sure. I will never forget when Corey Maggette out of Chicago picked Duke, I was so excited, then Dunleavy and Jason Williams in 2000. We were getting everyone we wanted! Now in the culture of college basketball we are in, recruiting is a reality show. It is so highly publicized it makes it so much easier to be heartbroken as a fan because you think of "oh, what could've been." I don't want to think of John Wall as being the savior to this program because he WOULDN'T be if he came here. It is just so hard nowadays because all of these decisions get to the media and it is HUGE. With this culture, is it hard to believe that one's decision could affect the decision of future players as well? That is the scary thing. I don't want kids who have incredible basketball futures to pass Duke over just because guys like Boynton, Wall, Monroe, Patterson, and so on didn't come here, but instead Plumlee and Kelly do.
I know I kind of went off on a tangent here, but that is how I feel and why this is important to me (and probably a lot of other people as well).

[Mike Corey]

Why are you taking that so personally?... or seriously? Calm down. It was just a joke stemming from the small reports saying Miami could be his destination. I really didn't think I would get this kind of reaction, just a few chuckles.

Suggesting that we give a player a shiner simply because he opted not to attend Duke isn't that amusing to me, I suppose.

It's not personal, Crazy. It's strictly business.

[JStuart]

"I'm interested in how you arrived at this calculation?"

Kedsy,
Verga probably used your computer program to calculate the odds....

[DukieBoy]

"I'm interested in how you arrived at this calculation?"

Kedsy,
Verga probably used your computer program to calculate the odds....

it's similar to how they calculate the BCS standings.

[NYDukie]

I think that I just realized what the problem is here. We as Duke fans have been so spoiled over recruits in the decade that when the first reports of someone picking another school over Duke, we get bent out of shape. I know this is me for sure. I will never forget when Corey Maggette out of Chicago picked Duke, I was so excited, then Dunleavy and Jason Williams in 2000. We were getting everyone we wanted! Now in the culture of college basketball we are in, recruiting is a reality show. It is so highly publicized it makes it so much easier to be heartbroken as a fan because you think of "oh, what could've been." I don't want to think of John Wall as being the savior to this program because he WOULDN'T be if he came here. It is just so hard nowadays because all of these decisions get to the media and it is HUGE. With this culture, is it hard to believe that one's decision could affect the decision of future players as well? That is the scary thing. I don't want kids who have incredible basketball futures to pass Duke over just because guys like Boynton, Wall, Monroe, Patterson, and so on didn't come here, but instead Plumlee and Kelly do.
I know I kind of went off on a tangent here, but that is how I feel and why this is important to me (and probably a lot of other people as well).

I have to agree Chicago. I remember back from when Elton, Battier and their crew committed and how much that class was revered and compared to recent great classes similar to the Fab 5 at Michigan. After that in the following year Maggette committed (small class that year) and then it followed with the JWill, Boozer and Dunleavy haul the next. A couple of years after that JJ, Sheldon and company came in and it was deemed either 1 or 2 with UNC's May, Felton class. Deng followed that and he was the #2 player after LeBron. Even Paulus and McBob's class was #1. And for that matter, the year after had Livingston though he never stepped foot on campus. So in a 7-8 year period Duke either had the #1 or #2 class FOUR times and in the other years when they only could sign one or two players, that player or players usually included a top 5 overall recruit. So yes Chicago, you're 100% correct in that we as Duke fans have been spoiled. Now if we only have 2 or 3 scholarships to offer and the players that commit include a bordeline top 10 player, a top 20 player and someone else on the fringe of that, we had the sky is falling feeling. We as fans also have to realize that there are other factors in who is able to come to Duke. I think as a whole we realize that but we do lose touch in that, that being the academic standards. During that period we were fortunate to see many of the top players not only be excellent basketball players but also have above average academic creditials. Just watch the interviews of NBA Duke alumni such as Battier, Brand, Dunleavy adn JWill and you can see that they are more than just NBA players. I'm not a grad of Duke but of a well respected NYC university but am proud to see how well these players represent Duke.

Sorry to go off topic here but I felt the need to keep a bit of perspective here will regard to Duke's recruiting efforts. Do I want Wall? Part of me does and part of me doesn't. I don't know to be honest as I've leaned towards the latter of late but I'm back to 50/50 on it. But I will say this, if he does choose to go to Duke he will be better for it, not only in a basketball sense but in a life experience and personal growth sense too.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Sorry to go off topic here but I felt the need to keep a bit of perspective here will regard to Duke's recruiting efforts. Do I want Wall? Part of me does and part of me doesn't. I don't know to be honest as I've leaned towards the latter of late but I'm back to 50/50 on it. But I will say this, if he does choose to go to Duke he will be better for it, not only in a basketball sense but in a life experience and personal growth sense too.

I completely see what you're saying here and understand it. That said, I think that 100% of me wants Wall. From what I've read, I don't think that Wall is a bad kid - I just think he is your average 18 year old. I don't know about you, but when I was 18, I wasn't exactly the most mature; every kid gets into trouble! I think a year of college in a good school (cough Duke cough) would do him really well (as you said, for life experience and personal growth).

I really like Wall and I think he is a complete game changer - Derrick Rose-esk.

[NYDukie]

I completely see what you're saying here and understand it. That said, I think that 100% of me wants Wall. From what I've read, I don't think that Wall is a bad kid - I just think he is your average 18 year old. I don't know about you, but when I was 18, I wasn't exactly the most mature; every kid gets into trouble! I think a year of college in a good school (cough Duke cough) would do him really well (as you said, for life experience and personal growth).

I really like Wall and I think he is a complete game changer - Derrick Rose-esk.

I totally know what you mean to be a 18 year old kid and I don't forget some of the stuff I did or my friends did. My only issue is that given what he has at stake, maybe him and his "handlers" would be a bit more aware of what he and they do and say. Most of what has happened probably has been blown out of proportion as he is under the preverbial "microscope" and I'm probably guilty of this myself, but I still wonder if he is a bit more immature than you're average 18 year old. That said, maybe I can give credit to Clifton, and I can't believe I'm actually supporting a comment or action a handler has given, to suggest that Wall being under the tutelage of Coach K, involved in the environment of the basketball program and that of Duke academia would be in Wall's best interest as he grows as a basketball player and person.

Maybe I am talking myself into believing Wall should come to Duke and not only for basketball purposes even if only for a year?

[derayb]

I know we keep grasping at straws here on some levels but I just read something in an article about Kyle Singler that I've forwarded to the mods that might be of interest. He mentioned the possibility of going pro after next season which really wouldn't be good news if it were to happen but when talking about next season he mentioned the possibility of playing with John Wall. Again...it is speculation on Kyle's part and nothing more but the way we've been grasping at every little tidbit of info. we can get our hands on, I thought some may find it worth reading. I don't know when they will post the article on the main site but here's a link. http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090508/SPORTS/905080336

[flyingdutchdevil]

I totally know what you mean to be a 18 year old kid and I don't forget some of the stuff I did or my friends did. My only issue is that given what he has at stake, maybe him and his "handlers" would be a bit more aware of what he and they do and say. Most of what has happened probably has been blown out of proportion as he is under the preverbial "microscope" and I'm probably guilty of this myself, but I still wonder if he is a bit more immature than you're average 18 year old. That said, maybe I can give credit to Clifton, and I can't believe I'm actually supporting a comment or action a handler has given, to suggest that Wall being under the tutelage of Coach K, involved in the environment of the basketball program and that of Duke academia would be in Wall's best interest as he grows as a basketball player and person.

Maybe I am talking myself into believing Wall should come to Duke and not only for basketball purposes even if only for a year?

Completely agree on that comment regarding Clifton. I hate the baggage that comes with being a great basketball player (handlers, AAU, potential agents and endorsements, your 15-person strong entourage...), but I have to side with Clifton on this one!

[BD80]

.. i know more basketball than 3/4 of the people here. ...

And polls show that 85% of people consider themselves better than average drivers.

[derayb]

Completely agree on that comment regarding Clifton. I hate the baggage that comes with being a great basketball player (handlers, AAU, potential agents and endorsements, your 15-person strong entourage...), but I have to side with Clifton on this one!

Here is an article that I stumbled upon that gives some insight on Clifton and why he does what he does... scroll to the bottom of the page after clicking the link
http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs094/1101830334228/archive/1101881200222.html#LETTER.BLOCK13

[roywhite]

http://www.courier-journal.com/blogs/bozich/2009/05/duke-new-leader-with-wall.html

Encouraging, particularly since it comes from the Louisville Courier-Journal.

[BlueinBlo]

http://www.courier-journal.com/blogs/bozich/2009/05/duke-new-leader-with-wall.html

Encouraging, particularly since it comes from the Louisville Courier-Journal.

Patterson is now going back to Kentucky so he would have to fight a lot of guys for the spotlight. Duke looks like his team right now.

[MarkD83]

http://www.courier-journal.com/blogs/bozich/2009/05/duke-new-leader-with-wall.html

Encouraging, particularly since it comes from the Louisville Courier-Journal.

Blogs on the internet as a source of information would make a great sociology/journalism/psychology thesis.

Let's see the linked blog basically said "I know an unnamed coach who says that some school has a small lead to get a player who is still clearly undecided about his college choice." Yet I immeadiately was drawn to this thread and the link.

Argh!!! I must be going insane or it is the offseason. When do they start playing games again so I can be put out of my misery.

[wilson]

Blogs on the internet as a source of information would make a great sociology/journalism/psychology thesis.


Your point is well taken, but I have a nit to pick. The linked piece, in my eyes, is not really a blog per se. Because it lies under the umbrella of a legitimate newspaper and is maintained by someone on their payroll, I view it as entirely different than "Johnny Jumpshot's Hoops Scoops" or something like that.

[jatotown]

Blogs on the internet as a source of information would make a great sociology/journalism/psychology thesis.

Let's see the linked blog basically said "I know an unnamed coach who says that some school has a small lead to get a player who is still clearly undecided about his college choice." Yet I immeadiately was drawn to this thread and the link.

Argh!!! I must be going insane or it is the offseason. When do they start playing games again so I can be put out of my misery.

I feel your pain, brother.

[RainingThrees]

I'm a little lost, did Wall actually trim his list down when he said he was going to? What is his official status minus rumors?

[Welcome2DaSlopes]

yea this is crazy i think we should have the lead with patterson going back to Kentucky and Eric Bledsoe going as well he would start but PT would not be as much as he would maybe want it to be but who knows? maybe he hates duke but its is his best option

[tommy]

Patterson is now going back to Kentucky so he would have to fight a lot of guys for the spotlight. Duke looks like his team right now.

Of course there's always a flip side. On this one, if Patterson is back, then with him and Meeks and the incoming freshmen, Kentucky will be viewed as a stronger NC contender than Duke, if that's important to Wall.

[BlueinBlo]

Of course there's always a flip side. On this one, if Patterson is back, then with him and Meeks and the incoming freshmen, Kentucky will be viewed as a stronger NC contender than Duke, if that's important to Wall.

Ya, but one thing I have learned through this whole process is that Wall loves the attention. I know it is a tough choice but hundreds of other teens do it and almost all the top recruits have already done so by now. This is very late for a senior to be picking a college. IMO, he knows where he wants to go, he just wants to drag it out. These goes directly into my point of that he wants the attention and it will defiantly be shared at UK.

Also, he will lack playing time at Kentucky. Cal has a lot of recruits coming but he also can't forget about the guys from last year. If he just keeps Wall out there for a whole game, these freshman could get mad and just transfer (Taylor King). Not to mention Kentucky is already at 14 people on scholarship not counting if Meeks comes back. I have a feeling Cal has jumped out of the race.

[BlueintheFace]

Also, he will lack playing time at Kentucky. Cal has a lot of recruits coming but he also can't forget about the guys from last year.

Really? The #1 recruit in the nation and a player Chad Ford has said will be one of the 5 best PG's in the NBA a few years from now will have trouble getting his minutes?

Really?

[BlueinBlo]

Really? The #1 recruit in the nation and a player Chad Ford has said will be one of the 5 best PG's in the NBA a few years from now will have trouble getting his minutes?

Really?

He won't have trouble getting minutes but I can guarantee he would get less at Kentucky then he would at Miami or Duke. Kentucky is a very deep team and Cal knows better than Wall is a one and done player. You think he is going to play Wall all 40 min and sit Bledsoe for around 20 min when Eric is the long term PG?? Benching top recruits is tricking.

[houstondukie]

He won't have trouble getting minutes but I can guarantee he would get less at Kentucky then he would at Miami or Duke. Kentucky is a very deep team and Cal knows better than Wall is a one and done player. You think he is going to play Wall all 40 min and sit Bledsoe for around 20 min when Eric is the long term PG?? Benching top recruits is tricking.

Long-term PG? You really think Calipari cares about long-term? He is the master of one-and-done players. He's recruiting B. Knight and K. Irving as well.

[Travi_K]

I broke a personal rule today and went to the Carolina board to get another perspective on the Wall recruitment and I was blown away how similar it is to this site with anticipation that Wall will sign with their respective team. What is incredible is that we are acually recruiting Wall and how dead set they seemed to be that Roy is going to offer. Naturally this could still happen and I am not disputing that Carolina may get involved but with the info that is currently out there I was just really amazed at the consistant confidence that posters seemed to have that it is just a matter of time before Wall gets a Carolina offer and he accepts. I did not read all the post but I kept waiting for one person as a check and balance to call the other posters out and say something like [Look guys, this may happen but it is May 8, Clifton hates Roy, and no known contact since the FF, and our team is not even mentioned as a contender in most publications about the final schools in contention, so our optimism is not realistic ] But never saw a post like this over the ones that I read. I was expecting to see more Please don't go to Duke/KY posts but very very little of this. It really sounded like Duke and Ky fans posting. Just thought the confidence was very interesting but should I have really expected anything different.

[godukecom]

I broke a personal rule today and went to the Carolina board to get another perspective on the Wall recruitment and I was blown away how similar it is to this site with anticipation that Wall will sign with their respective team. What is incredible is that we are acually recruiting Wall and how dead set they seemed to be that Roy is going to offer. Naturally this could still happen and I am not disputing that Carolina may get involved but with the info that is currently out there it just really amazed at the consistant confidence that posters seemed to have that it is just a matter of time before Wall gets a Carolina offer and he accepts. I did not read all the post but I kept waiting for one person as a check and balance to call the other posters out and say something like [Look guys, this may happen but it is May 8, Clifton hates Roy, and no known contact since the FF, and our team is not even mentioned as a contender in most publications about the final schools in contention, so our optimism is not realistic ] But never saw a post like this over the ones that I read. I was expecting to see more Please don't go to Duke/KY posts but very very little of this. It really sounded like Duke and Ky fans posting. Just thought the confidence was very interesting but should I have really expected anything different.

that is one rule you should never break

[verga]

alright guys, i get it

[BlueinBlo]

Long-term PG? You really think Calipari cares about long-term? He is the master of one-and-done players. He's recruiting B. Knight and K. Irving as well.

Knight has low interest while Irving has not gotten an offer according to scout.

[Welcome2DaSlopes]

Wassup with Ryan Kelly he is Wall's teammate does he not have any levarage? is he trying to get wall to duke like they said MP2 was

[speedevil2001]

Ya, but one thing I have learned through this whole process is that Wall loves the attention. I know it is a tough choice but hundreds of other teens do it and almost all the top recruits have already done so by now. This is very late for a senior to be picking a college. IMO, he knows where he wants to go, he just wants to drag it out. These goes directly into my point of that he wants the attention and it will defiantly be shared at UK.

Also, he will lack playing time at Kentucky. Cal has a lot of recruits coming but he also can't forget about the guys from last year. If he just keeps Wall out there for a whole game, these freshman could get mad and just transfer (Taylor King). Not to mention Kentucky is already at 14 people on scholarship not counting if Meeks comes back. I have a feeling Cal has jumped out of the race.

hahaha thats a joke, john wall will start no matter what team he's on, nba included.

[Welcome2DaSlopes]

I think we should all know he going to start it's just how much playing time he will get.

[NYDukie]

I broke a personal rule today and went to the Carolina board to get another perspective on the Wall recruitment and I was blown away how similar it is to this site with anticipation that Wall will sign with their respective team. What is incredible is that we are acually recruiting Wall and how dead set they seemed to be that Roy is going to offer. Naturally this could still happen and I am not disputing that Carolina may get involved but with the info that is currently out there I was just really amazed at the consistant confidence that posters seemed to have that it is just a matter of time before Wall gets a Carolina offer and he accepts. I did not read all the post but I kept waiting for one person as a check and balance to call the other posters out and say something like [Look guys, this may happen but it is May 8, Clifton hates Roy, and no known contact since the FF, and our team is not even mentioned as a contender in most publications about the final schools in contention, so our optimism is not realistic ] But never saw a post like this over the ones that I read. I was expecting to see more Please don't go to Duke/KY posts but very very little of this. It really sounded like Duke and Ky fans posting. Just thought the confidence was very interesting but should I have really expected anything different.

Very interesting. I'm not much for "conspiracy theories" but given what you read I do find interesting how long this has dragged out. As though Wall is "hoping" to get a UNC offer. I don't fault Wall for doing his due diligence in selecting a school. I actually appreciate that decision but at the same time I don't understand having 5, 6 or more schools still in the equation. I know it was mentioned he was trim his list but no word has come yet. But why have that many schools involved this late in the game to begin with? Two or three and I understand it better. Just makes me wonder if UNC is somehow waiting in the weeds to strike with all the Roy hates Clifton and Clifton hates Roy being a cover? I'm sorry for this "theory" but will all the posts the Wall recruitment has garned and all the rumors of this and that, one's mind starts to wonder at times about the situation. At the end of the day though, I still believe its either Duke or UK.

[BlueinBlo]

http://www.courier-journal.com/blogs/bozich/blog.html

John Wall is suppose to commit to UK next week according to this guy.

[Kedsy]

http://www.courier-journal.com/blogs/bozich/blog.html

John Wall is suppose to commit to UK next week according to this guy.

Well, four hours earlier the same guy said Duke was the leader.

Then he attributes to a different unnamed source who supposedly said, "UK is optimistic about getting a commitment from John Wall next week."

That's a lot different from "suppose [sic] to commit to UK." It's possible it will happen that way -- practically anything's possible at this point -- but this guy's reliability seems extremely low.

[CameronBornAndBred]

http://www.courier-journal.com/blogs/bozich/blog.html

John Wall is suppose to commit to UK next week according to this guy.
Baseless speculation. Any school that is highly involved is "optimistic" that Wall will choose them. As the Kedsy stated, he had a different look 4 hours earlier. The writer knows as much about Wall's choice as you and I do.

[mo.st.dukie]

Wasn't it just a few weeks ago that someone in the Miami program said they were optimistic about their chances as well?

[geraldsneighbor]

Wasn't it just a few weeks ago that someone in the Miami program said they were optimistic about their chances as well?

I'm optimistic he is committing to Duke. Quick put it online! No one really knows what this kid is going to do. Optimism is only a state of mind. I'm optimistic about a lot of things. I'm not optimistic about a lot of things too.

[DukieBoy]

http://www.courier-journal.com/blogs/bozich/blog.html

John Wall is suppose to commit to UK next week according to this guy.

Like Kedsy said, he said a few hours earlier that Duke was the favorite, then switches to UK. At this points, no one can predict where this kid is going. If only he knew what kind of tailspin, obsession filled craze he has sent the basketball world into to.

[CameronBornAndBred]

If only he knew what kind of tailspin, obsession filled craze he has sent the basketball world into to.
I'm very certain he does.

[Bob Green]

Recruiting expert Tom Konchalski states, "I'll be suprised if John Wall ends up anywhere other than Kentucky."

http://www.zagsblog.com/2009/05/08/konchalski-on-lance-wall-parrom/

[Oriole Way]

Recruiting expert Tom Konchalski states, "I'll be suprised if John Wall ends up anywhere other than Kentucky."

http://www.zagsblog.com/2009/05/08/konchalski-on-lance-wall-parrom/

Sigh... I've never been optimistic about landing Wall. It's been 5 years since we've seen a great pure point guard play for Duke, and it could be 7 or 8 total before we see another one. Here's to hoping K puts on a great last ditch effort to get this kid.

[speedevil2001]

Recruiting expert Tom Konchalski states, "I'll be suprised if John Wall ends up anywhere other than Kentucky."

http://www.zagsblog.com/2009/05/08/konchalski-on-lance-wall-parrom/

to me all that means, is that tom konchalski thinks kentucky is now in the lead for wall.
i believe wall's mom and friend's opinion will win through and he will stay home and choose duke within a few weeks.

[slower]

i believe wall's mom and friend's opinion will win through and he will stay home and choose duke within a few weeks.

Or maybe Calipari will have Worldwide Wes give Wall a ring and conference call with MJ, Lebron, Phil Knight, Jay-Z, Ashley Judd and the ghost of Secretariat.

[DevilWolf]

John has taken this long to make a decision and I firmly believe he doesn't know where he's headed yet. I seriously doubt that after this long he would tip off anything to anyone prior to his announcement.

[grossbus]

how many scholly's does kentucky have with PP returning?

[KenTankerous]

Minus three...

http://kentucky.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=943715

[yancem]

Minus three...

http://kentucky.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=943715

So if I'm reading this right, Kentucky will have to cut 4 scholarship players to make room for Wall (assuming that rumors are true and both Meeks and Patterson pull out of the draft). This seems like a shaky proposition even for Callipari. I have to guess that he has a plan to get down to 13 with or without Wall but you have to wonder if there will be any fall out from yanking 4 sholarships.

[KenTankerous]

How Cal handles the lack of scholarships will, for me anyway, be a major indicator of how he plans on running this team. I'm as happy as any KY fan to have an elite coach at the helm of the program. But elite means more than recruiting the best class in the country or winning the NC. How he goes about winning DOES still matter to myself and the majority of Cat fans I know.

[roywhite]

So if I'm reading this right, Kentucky will have to cut 4 scholarship players to make room for Wall (assuming that rumors are true and both Meeks and Patterson pull out of the draft). This seems like a shaky proposition even for Callipari. I have to guess that he has a plan to get down to 13 with or without Wall but you have to wonder if there will be any fall out from yanking 4 sholarships.

This stinks pretty bad.

The concept that Calipari gets to build a team from the current roster and the recruiting classes of Memphis and UK, no matter if that means cutting scholarship players, may be tough for even some UK fans to justify. Or maybe not.

I don't know if Calipari would be outright breaking any rules, but the NCAA should certainly take note of this.

And didn't Bledsoe indicate that Calipari promised him the starting PG job? I don't see how Bledsoe breaks into the starting lineup if the backcourt features Wall and Meeks.

A win-at-all-costs coach has married a win-at-all-costs fanbase. Yuck...

[KenTankerous]

A win-at-all-costs coach has married a win-at-all-costs fanbase. Yuck...

I can only hope that the administration will remember how much Eddie Sutton did for the legacy of the program and try to keep him in check.

[roywhite]

A win-at-all-costs coach has married a win-at-all-costs fanbase. Yuck...

I can only hope that the administration will remember how much Eddie Sutton did for the legacy of the program and try to keep him in check.

Ken, I don't doubt your sincerity, or that there are those like you in the Commonwealth.

But when a coach has a projected roster of 16 scholarship players, and is looking for more, the situation doesn't pass the smell test.

[KenTankerous]

No, I agree with you roywhite. It makes me very uneasy. I don't know how is planning on dealing with this and that will be very telling.

And for me, it brings up the impossible question of what one does when one's program doesn't meet ethical expectations. How do I stop being a fan? I can stop supporting the program with any merchandise or ticket purchases. But can I stop watching college basketball? I suppose I could but, golly, that's harsh.

[Faison1]

Ken, I don't doubt your sincerity, or that there are those like you in the Commonwealth.

But when a coach has a projected roster of 16 scholarship players, and is looking for more, the situation doesn't pass the smell test.

Let's be respectful of Ken. He has been nothing but respectful towards his former arch-enemy. He's even defended Duke in public forums.

Only time will tell in regards to the UK-Calipari experiment. I personally don't have a problem with Cal. Sure, there's been some shady things in the past, but I'm guessing he would have been caught if indeed he had done something wrong, considering how tight the NCAA is these days.

Let me ask a question: what if Duke was full on scholarships, and the second coming of Elton Brand said he wanted to play for K.....do you think we'd make room somehow? If memory serves, in recent history, Melchioni didn't get a scholarship his first year.......

[roywhite]

Let's be respectful of Ken. He has been nothing but respectful towards his former arch-enemy. He's even defended Duke in public forums.

Only time will tell in regards to the UK-Calipari experiment. I personally don't have a problem with Cal. Sure, there's been some shady things in the past, but I'm guessing he would have been caught if indeed he had done something wrong, considering how tight the NCAA is these days.

Let me ask a question: what if Duke was full on scholarships, and the second coming of Elton Brand said he wanted to play for K.....do you think we'd make room somehow? If memory serves, in recent history, Melchioni didn't get a scholarship his first year.......

Are you suggesting an equivalence between Duke and Kentucky here in regards to manipulating the scholarship numbers?? Or just an "everybody does it; so what?" point of view?

Discussions with the Melchionni family (which of course includes former Duke star and team caption Gary M.) were above board and prior to the fact.

Is there an instance where Coach K has run off players to meet scholarship limits? I'm not aware of any.

[Faison1]

Are you suggesting an equivalence between Duke and Kentucky here in regards to manipulating the scholarship numbers?? Or just an "everybody does it; so what?" point of view?

Discussions with the Melchionni family (which of course includes former Duke star and team caption Gary M.) were above board and prior to the fact.

Is there an instance where Coach K has run off players to meet scholarship limits? I'm not aware of any.

I'm not suggesting anything. Just asking a question. I'm wondering how everyone would react to the situation I posed. You don't think K would ask a walk-on who got a scholly the year before to take a back seat next year if he knew a recruit would take Duke to the promised land? Again, to be clear, I am only asking the question.....not questioning the integrity of K or the Program.

[roywhite]

I'm not suggesting anything. Just asking a question. I'm wondering how everyone would react to the situation I posed. You don't think K would ask a walk-on who got a scholly the year before to take a back seat next year if he knew a recruit would take Duke to the promised land? Again, to be clear, I am only asking the question.....not questioning the integrity of K or the Program.

What's the point of a hypothetical about Coach K here? He's been at Duke for 30 years; has there been a time where he's forced out scholarship players to reach a mandated limit?

There have been instances of walk-on players receiving a scholarship during their time on the roster, but that can be a year-to-year situation, and I don't have a problem with it.

I thought the thread was about John Wall's recruitment, and the specific question was about Kentucky's scholarship situation and how, or whether, that would affect Wall's situation.

[KenTankerous]

So, about John Wall. We agree that Calipari would probably cut previous scholarship player to make room for Wall. And that is sad and probably shouldn't be allowed. But I think it is under current NCAA regs.

I doubt Coach K would get himself into that situation but if G had stayed and the roster filled, to what lengths would you be comfortable going if Wall wanted to attend Duke?

[CameronBornAndBred]

What really sucks IF Wall goes to UK is that there is one person who isn't coming back next year, and since he would probably be transferring, now has to sit out a year before he gets to play again. What also sucks is that even though it's only one person, until Wall announces there are a few guys on the Kentcuky roster who have no idea if they will get the short straw or not.

[MChambers]

So, about John Wall. We agree that Calipari would probably cut previous scholarship player to make room for Wall. And that is sad and probably shouldn't be allowed. But I think it is under current NCAA regs.

I doubt Coach K would get himself into that situation but if G had stayed and the roster filled, to what lengths would you be comfortable going if Wall wanted to attend Duke?
I wouldn't be comfortable with taking away anyone's scholarship, unless it were a walk-on who knew that having a scholarship depended on there being an extra one available.

[JasonEvans]

I doubt Coach K would get himself into that situation but if G had stayed and the roster filled, to what lengths would you be comfortable going if Wall wanted to attend Duke?

I think it is impossible for us to address this scenario. I do not think Coach K would get involved with a kid whose acceptance of a scholarship would put Duke in a situation where K had to yank a scholarship from a kid who was planning on being at Duke on scholarship the next year and could not afford to be there otherwise.

This is, of course, different from walk-ons who are granted scholarships on a year-to-year basis or a situation like Melchioni where the scholarship situation was made 100% clear to Lee and the family prior to Lee deciding to come to Duke.

I remember for a very long time that K never, ever had Duke at the scholarship limit. I always wondered about why he did this. I was told it was so he could hand out scholarships to walk-ons and so he always had an option in his back pocket.

--Jason "if it meant harming one of his player's futures, K would not go after that extra player-- doesn't matter how good he was" Evans

[BoozerWasFouled]

The question about what Coach K would do can be answered by looking at the history of Duke basketball. He has never cut a scholarship player to make room for a recruit.

Question for Ken. On some of the UK message boards, fans appear to be quite excited about the possibility of cutting loose recruits to make room for Calipari's players. But of course the message board people are a self-selecting group. What does the larger UK fanbase think about this? Are there concerns in Kentucky?

[KenTankerous]

I have issues, obviously, but the larger fan base really doesn't think pulling a scholarship from a roster player to make room for a high level recruit is any big deal at all:

Louisville Social network site, mojo, thread regarding the recruiting class (http://www.louisvillemojo.com/newforums/Replies.Cfm?TID=153360&FID=18)

Notice the post after mine.

I am formulating a response to that but have to not sound like too much of a Duke fan when I say Coach K wouldn't do that. I don't think Ole Roy would either, or Mike Izzo, or even Pitino.

[johaad]

I have issues, obviously, but the larger fan base really doesn't think pulling a scholarship from a roster player to make room for a high level recruit is any big deal at all:

Louisville Social network site, mojo, thread regarding the recruiting class (http://www.louisvillemojo.com/newforums/Replies.Cfm?TID=153360&FID=18)

Notice the post after mine.

I am formulating a response to that but have to not sound like too much of a Duke fan when I say Coach K wouldn't do that. I don't think Ole Roy would either, or Mike Izzo, or even Pitino.

That post after yours is disgusting. I have no other words.

[Scorp4me]

That post after yours is disgusting. I have no other words.

I agree with you completely. Unfortunately those guys are the majority in this day and time. Makes it hard for the good coaches...the ones who win with ethics, to succeed. I am not just talking about college basketball, but nearly every sport at every level.

[houstondukie]

I agree with you completely. Unfortunately those guys are the majority in this day and time. Makes it hard for the good coaches...the ones who win with ethics, to succeed. I am not just talking about college basketball, but nearly every sport at every level.

That post was disgusting, but sadly true. We expect our coaches to not only win, but win now. The ethical thing would be to build up a program and win through good coaching and dedication to the STUDENT-athlete, but fans and organizations aren't patient enough (and Kentucky fans are the worst at this). I'm not a Calipari fan at all, but I can't really blame him, and I sometimes wonder if I were in his shoes, with all that pressure to win (especially from Kentucky fans), if I would act differently.

[Franzez]

Can someone explain to me how Kentucky expects to win with such massive roster change over every season.

After this season they lose Cousins,Patterson,Meeks, and Wall(if he signs there).

So they are already going to basically cut 4 players from the team leaving them with 13 players for this season.

3 players(Wall,Cousins,Patterson) are 100% leaving early after the 2009-2010 season,and Meeks,Stevenson,Galloway,and Harris each graduate next season.

6 players left(Bledsoe,Hood,Orton,Liggins,Miller,Dodson)
Hes not cutting any of these players for the upcoming season.

So he will need to recruit 7(or more) freshmen to fill out his 2010 recruiting class.

There is no possible way you can keep a team like that together with all of the egos clashing, he will literally have to recruit some freshmen to sit on the bench for a year and then their job may be in jeopardy the following season if when he overrecruits.

[geraldsneighbor]

Can someone explain to me how Kentucky expects to win with such massive roster change over every season.

After this season they lose Cousins,Patterson,Meeks, and Wall(if he signs there).

So they are already going to basically cut 4 players from the team leaving them with 13 players for this season.

3 players(Wall,Cousins,Patterson) are 100% leaving early after the 2009-2010 season,and Meeks,Stevenson,Galloway,and Harris each graduate next season.

6 players left(Bledsoe,Hood,Orton,Liggins,Miller,Dodson)
Hes not cutting any of these players for the upcoming season.

So he will need to recruit 7(or more) freshmen to fill out his 2010 recruiting class.

There is no possible way you can keep a team like that together with all of the egos clashing, he will literally have to recruit some freshmen to sit on the bench for a year and then their job may be in jeopardy the following season if when he overrecruits.

Definitely some legit points. You gotta think that this style of recruiting whether its because hes taking over a new team or not, will eventually prove to be counter-productive. I don't doubt they will have a good team next year but recruiting the glue guys will prove much more difficult over the coming years because of how he has handled his roster this year.

[johaad]

Here's a good read about John Wall. It kind of puts things in perspective. It is by far one of the better written articles that we've seen lately. It gives a good summary of the Wall saga.

http://www.truthbegins.com/blog/2009/05/09/from-the-window-to-the-wall/

[Franzez]

Definitely some legit points. You gotta think that this style of recruiting whether its because hes taking over a new team or not, will eventually prove to be counter-productive. I don't doubt they will have a good team next year but recruiting the glue guys will prove much more difficult over the coming years because of how he has handled his roster this year.
There is just no way you can win consistently this way with recruiting, you're literally banking your success each season on recruiting an elite 1 & Done prospect to lead the team every year.

Every Championship team needs those "glue guys", the non highly recruited prospects who are willing to provide a specific role on the team.

How the heck do you sell to an All American like Eric Bledsoe that his only role will be as the back-up PG for 4 years because he plans to recruit the elite PG prospect in each recruiting class and allow them to start for 1 year before heading to the NBA?

[ncexnyc]

Definitely some legit points. You gotta think that this style of recruiting whether its because hes taking over a new team or not, will eventually prove to be counter-productive. I don't doubt they will have a good team next year but recruiting the glue guys will prove much more difficult over the coming years because of how he has handled his roster this year.

What's so special about "glue guys?" Who would you consider the "glue guy" for this year's championship team?

When you're talking about a Coach and a school who put winning first, you're talking about a program that will find plenty of extremely talented kids who will be able to step right in and keep that team in serious contention for a title year after year. What more proof do you need than what's taken place at Memphis these past few years.

[nyr484]

There is just no way you can win consistently this way with recruiting

Well, Memphis seems to have had a pretty successful run in the last few years. And if Calipari had stayed there, it showed no signs of stopping.



How the heck do you sell to an All American like Eric Bledsoe that his only role will be as the back-up PG for 4 years

Good point, but somehow Calipari got him to commit. Maybe Cal convinced him that he could develop into an elite PG such that Cal wouldn't recruit someone to play in front of him every year. It wasn't all 1-and-dones at Memphis... Cal did have very talented 4 year players and "glue guys" as well.

[dgoore97]

Here's a good read about John Wall. It kind of puts things in perspective. It is by far one of the better written articles that we've seen lately. It gives a good summary of the Wall saga.

http://www.truthbegins.com/blog/2009/05/09/from-the-window-to-the-wall/

but seems a bit unfair when he talks about a "questionable past"...

[Greg_Newton]

Well, Memphis seems to have had a pretty successful run in the last few years. And if Calipari had stayed there, it showed no signs of stopping.



Good point, but somehow Calipari got him to commit. Maybe Cal convinced him that he could develop into an elite PG such that Cal wouldn't recruit someone to play in front of him every year. It wasn't all 1-and-dones at Memphis... Cal did have very talented 4 year players and "glue guys" as well.

I tend to agree with your first point there... there are many reasons to fault the man, but successfully recruiting incredibly good players isn't one of them IMO. Many highly recruited players end up being glue guys/role players in college anyway... just look at Duke's role players in recent years, for example.

I remember when Bledsoe announced his decision, the word on all the UK boards was that Cal had told Bledsoe he would be the starter. Of course, who knows if that was actually the case, but either way it really would be pretty ridiculous if UK could snag both Wall and Bledsoe. It just seems like it would work out better for all parties involved (Wall, Bledsoe, Duke and maybe even UK) if one just went to Duke and the other just went to UK... both schools would fill their glaring need with a top-5 pure PG, and both players would come in and start right away for great teams. Hopefully this will still be the case, but it's looking less likely than it did a few weeks ago...

[johaad]

"but seems a bit unfair when he talks about a "questionable past"... "

True, but I thought he was just trying to cover all bases of John Wall. And as much as we hate it now, that was the original report on Wall.

[DukieBoy]

I'm sure this was posted on here somewhere, but thought I would post it just to be sure.

Here's a mixtape (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4CbQGBbUOw&feature=fvhl) of his. After watching this, my mouth was watering at the thought of him joining our team.

[FireOgilvie]

I'm sure this was posted on here somewhere, but thought I would post it just to be sure.

Here's a mixtape (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4CbQGBbUOw&feature=fvhl) of his. After watching this, my mouth was watering at the thought of him joining our team.

One thing that's often overlooked is that he's almost totally ambidextrous. If you watch his dunk highlights, you think he's left handed, but he shoots right handed. He dribbles equally well with both hands.

[speedevil2001]

Can someone explain to me how Kentucky expects to win with such massive roster change over every season.

After this season they lose Cousins,Patterson,Meeks, and Wall(if he signs there).

So they are already going to basically cut 4 players from the team leaving them with 13 players for this season.

3 players(Wall,Cousins,Patterson) are 100% leaving early after the 2009-2010 season,and Meeks,Stevenson,Galloway,and Harris each graduate next season.

6 players left(Bledsoe,Hood,Orton,Liggins,Miller,Dodson)
Hes not cutting any of these players for the upcoming season.

So he will need to recruit 7(or more) freshmen to fill out his 2010 recruiting class.

There is no possible way you can keep a team like that together with all of the egos clashing, he will literally have to recruit some freshmen to sit on the bench for a year and then their job may be in jeopardy the following season if when he overrecruits.

calipari coached memphis the master of the one and done...after rose left, he brought in tyrek evans and memphis did pretty good last year.

[NYDukie]

Definitely some legit points. You gotta think that this style of recruiting whether its because hes taking over a new team or not, will eventually prove to be counter-productive. I don't doubt they will have a good team next year but recruiting the glue guys will prove much more difficult over the coming years because of how he has handled his roster this year.

I know we like to bash Cal, myself included, because of his used car salesman ways but I have to disagree with the counter-productive assessment. He had that Memphis program humming along and the guy can flat out coach at the college level. Current recruits were beginning to see Memphis as the "now" teams, similar to how UNLV was back in the day. I remember a few articles in which recruits mentioned Memphis in such a manner. To think that UK won't be a much improved team and a possible national factor next year is a bit ignorant and probably a by-product of the UK rivalry from our Tourny rivalry and now at the recruiting level (i.e. Patterson and Wall, regardless of how that turns out).

I now fully expect some backlash due to defending Cal and UK, though in a minor way, even though I can't stand UK and Cal in general..LOL

[moonpie23]

I'm sure this was posted on here somewhere, but thought I would post it just to be sure.

Here's a mixtape (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4CbQGBbUOw&feature=fvhl) of his. After watching this, my mouth was watering at the thought of him joining our team.

that's a great mixtape ('cept the sound track:cool:) but before we go just plain NUTS, let's all remember. John will be playing against talent like he's never met up with in his whole life. Yeah, he's got mad skills, but he will be facing much tougher talent than he is in any of those clips...

moon "just watching some old josh mcroberts highlight mixtapes" pie.





sorry jason....

[derayb]

;) Here is an article regarding John Wall's decision... http://bleacherreport.com/articles/172291-john-wall-makes-a-decision

I couldn't resist posting this one... :D

[JasonEvans]

;) Here is an article regarding John Wall's decision... http://bleacherreport.com/articles/172291-john-wall-makes-a-decision

I couldn't resist posting this one... :D

Best part about that post--

The poll to the side of the screen that reads:


Should NCAA establish May 15th deadline for Scholarship Athletes to Commit
* Yes
* No
* I like the idea of college coach and AAU coach negotiating through the summer

--Jason "this reminds me of Lord of the Rings when Treebeard announces the Ents have made a decision... they have decided that the Hobbits are not Orcs" Evans

[JasonEvans]

--Jason "this reminds me of Lord of the Rings when Treebeard announces the Ents have made a decision... they have decided that the Hobbits are not Orcs" Evans

Wow... did I really write that. I am the world's biggest geek.

--Jason "I am pathetic" Evans

[hedgehog]

I am the world's biggest geek.

--Jason "I am pathetic" Evans

Takes a lot of nerve to proclaim yourself the world's biggest geek on an internet forum. I guess it is more likely to fly here than a WoW forum.

Oh yeah, for some b-ball content. John Wall - Ignore the geeks and come to Duke!!

[Franzez]

Well, Memphis seems to have had a pretty successful run in the last few years. And if Calipari had stayed there, it showed no signs of stopping.
Conference USA.:D






Good point, but somehow Calipari got him to commit. Maybe Cal convinced him that he could develop into an elite PG such that Cal wouldn't recruit someone to play in front of him every year. It wasn't all 1-and-dones at Memphis... Cal did have very talented 4 year players and "glue guys" as well.
But we know that Cal is going to recruit someone to play ahead of him every year, they are already pushing for Selby & Knight for 2010.

Cal did have some good 4 year players but those were the type of players that I mean claiming not highly recruited who projected for 4 years as role players, Anderson,Dozier,Dorsey, and others werent top recruits or even top 50 recruits.

Due to Kentucky's standards for recruiting he is only targeting All Americans, remember that Tubby Smith got ran out of town for not solely recruiting HS All Americans instead recruiting guys who fit his system that would stick for 3-4 years.

[CameronBornAndBred]

;) Here is an article regarding John Wall's decision... http://bleacherreport.com/articles/172291-john-wall-makes-a-decision

I couldn't resist posting this one... :D
Since I loathe bleacherreport and their so-called "articles" I was tempted not to look, but it's like rubbernecking a trainwreck, gotta do it.

That being said, that is the best bleacherreport "article" ever written.

[yancem]

Wow... did I really write that. I am the world's biggest geek.

--Jason "I am pathetic" Evans

I'm not even sure you are the biggest Geek on this thread, don't forget that Kedsy admitted to scripting a coin flipping program to determine his college choice. That sounded like something one of the cast from the comedy series Big Bang.

PS - Kedsy, I'm not trying to harsh on you, I thought it was a great story but it was a little on the geeky side.

[Kedsy]

I'm not even sure you are the biggest Geek on this thread, don't forget that Kedsy admitted to scripting a coin flipping program to determine his college choice. That sounded like something one of the cast from the comedy series Big Bang.

PS - Kedsy, I'm not trying to harsh on you, I thought it was a great story but it was a little on the geeky side.

Well, yeah, I suppose I did go through a geeky phase. I also went through a beer-guzzling phase. Not sure either phase is over yet, though, which may or may not be a problem.

[yancem]

Well, yeah, I suppose I did go through a geeky phase. I also went through a beer-guzzling phase. Not sure either phase is over yet, though, which may or may not be a problem.

As I see it they both go hand in hand. The geeky phase earns the money to pay for the beer guzzling phase and they both offset the other's perceived social limitations. If you're guzzling beer you can't be seen as too much of a geek and if you're a geek then you can't be seen as too much of a beer guzzler!

[Indoor66]

What happened to DukeDevilDeb's post?

[CameronBornAndBred]

What happened to DukeDevilDeb's post?
If it was there and now it's not, it probably got sent to the cornfield.
http://www.notmytribe.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/twilight-zone-good-life-anthony-freemont.jpg

[Franzez]

What happened to DukeDevilDeb's post?
The mods enjoy deleting posts in threads.

[SupaDave]

The mods enjoy deleting posts in threads.

Yep - and if some of us had our way this thread would have about 7 posts. Some of you have gone stir crazy...

[devildeac]

Yep - and if some of us had our way this thread would have about 7 posts. Some of you have gone stir crazy...

Which seven?

[SupaDave]

Which seven?

Glad you asked!!

-John Wall has interest in Duke
-John Wall is the #1 Pg in the nation and wants to stay near home
-John Wall talks to Coach K
-John Wall gets offer from Duke
-John Wall visits Duke
-John Wall to have press conference
-John Wall commits to Duke

[dyedwab]

Glad you asked!!

-John Wall has interest in Duke
-John Wall is the #1 Pg in the nation and wants to stay near home
-John Wall talks to Coach K
-John Wall gets offer from Duke
-John Wall visits Duke
-John Wall to have press conference
-John Wall commits to Duke

POTW, maybe Post of the Off-Season?

[devildeac]

Glad you asked!!

-John Wall has interest in Duke
-John Wall is the #1 Pg in the nation and wants to stay near home
-John Wall talks to Coach K
-John Wall gets offer from Duke
-John Wall visits Duke
-John Wall to have press conference
-John Wall commits to Duke

Well, 5 of them already exist, though it took us about 2200 to get there:rolleyes:. There are only 2 that are still missing from this thread...;)

[Edouble]

Due to Kentucky's standards for recruiting he is only targeting All Americans, remember that Tubby Smith got ran out of town for not solely recruiting HS All Americans instead recruiting guys who fit his system that would stick for 3-4 years.

He got run out for not going to a Final Four after his first season.

[MIKESJ73]

Does anyone know what kind of position he was given at Baylor? I saw an article that said he was pushing Duke so he could stay in Wall's inner circle. I assumed that Clifton would be at Baylor next year. He won't still be in Durham will he?

[SupaDave]

Does anyone know what kind of position he was given at Baylor? I saw an article that said he was pushing Duke so he could stay in Wall's inner circle. I assumed that Clifton would be at Baylor next year. He won't still be in Durham will he?

OK - this is like the 50th post from someone who refuses to read the whole thread. So I'm wondering - anyone feel like going through the thread and doing a media synopsis of all the links?

[DukeDevilDeb]

What happened to DukeDevilDeb's post?

I put a tongue in cheek post on the John Wall thread last night, and it has disappeared. Several people have asked in the 112 thread where it is. There was nothing obscene or particularly critical about it... just a comment on a silly 112-page thread that basically was blather. Wall is going to make his decision; why are we obsessing about it?

I would like to ask the moderators a question. I'm sure whoever removed it had a reason, but I would surely like to know what it is. And given that I am a regular poster on this board, wouldn't it have been simply polite to send me a private message explaining why this post was removed?

I have always defended the work of the moderators here, but now I am beginning to question it a little. I know this is Julio's site, but if a post isn't obscene or offensive, why is it removed?

I await a response eagerly. :)

Thanks.

[DukeDevilDeb]

OK - this is like the 50th post from someone who refuses to read the whole thread. So I'm wondering - anyone feel like going through the thread and doing a media synopsis of all the links?

I was trying to suggest last night... we can't expect anyone to go back and read through 112 pages... this thread has gotten out of control! The moderators were quick to remove my post last night but haven't been willing to edit this in any way. It would sure be a help if someone would go through and (1) leave in the links to various stories, but (2) remove the redundancies!

We might get it shortened to 90 pages! ;)

[Indoor66]

OK - this is like the 50th post from someone who refuses to read the whole thread. So I'm wondering - anyone feel like going through the thread and doing a media synopsis of all the links?

Pray tell, how can you expect ANYONE to read all of a thread that has 2200+ posts prior to asking a question?

[Truth]

Pray tell, how can you expect ANYONE to read all of a thread that has 2200+ posts prior to asking a question?

Click. Read. Click next. Reaadd. Click next - reeaaad.

There's also a search tool if you're looking for, or posting, something specific.

Also, let's be honest with ourselves here. A complete newbie to the board has a reason for being 2200+ posts behind, but anyone that's around for a few months or more is likely nowhere near 2200 posts behind. Even if you don't keep up with the board, or this thread in particular, on a regular basis, "regulars" are still likely to be only a few hundred posts behind at most. Surely, someone can spend time catching up before issuing duplicate posts -- I do not think that is unreasonable.

[SupaDave]

I put a tongue in cheek post on the John Wall thread last night, and it has disappeared. Several people have asked in the 112 thread where it is. There was nothing obscene or particularly critical about it... just a comment on a silly 112-page thread that basically was blather.

I have always defended the work of the moderators here, but now I am beginning to question it a little. I know this is Julio's site, but if a post isn't obscene or offensive, why is it removed?

I await a response eagerly. :)

Thanks.

And you're wondering why?

Just b/c a post isn't cruel or obscene doesn't mean it isn't counter-productive... That particularly post would have been inflammatory and definitely have added another few pages to the thread. It would have been more suited for the LTE where you are allowed to vent a little...

We are really trying to keep some sanity in these last few days - OR months...

[SupaDave]

Pray tell, how can you expect ANYONE to read all of a thread that has 2200+ posts prior to asking a question?

Haven't YOU read all 2200+ posts?

[SupaDave]

That is old news. There are dozens of posts on that topic in this thread already.

The DBR strongly advises that you spend at least a little bit of time checking the boards to make sure that the "news" you are announcing has not already been reported and commented on many, many times over.

Thanks.

--Jason "mod much?" Evans

Just to pop this back up...

[Kedsy]

Does anyone know what kind of position he was given at Baylor? I saw an article that said he was pushing Duke so he could stay in Wall's inner circle. I assumed that Clifton would be at Baylor next year. He won't still be in Durham will he?

The answer to your question is there are two Cliftons (brothers). One is now at Baylor. One is in Raleigh. The article was referring to the one in Raleigh.

[JasonEvans]

I was trying to suggest last night... we can't expect anyone to go back and read through 112 pages... this thread has gotten out of control! The moderators were quick to remove my post last night but haven't been willing to edit this in any way. It would sure be a help if someone would go through and (1) leave in the links to various stories, but (2) remove the redundancies!

We might get it shortened to 90 pages! ;)

Are you actually suggestion that the mods go back and cull out hundreds of posts in this thread because they are redundant or useless? Is this request actually coming from someone who is also complaining because his most recent redundant/useless post was deleted from the thread? Irony much!?!?

;)

Your post was taken down because it did nothing to help Duke's case with Wall and was borderline destructively negative. I did not remove it, but I read it after it was removed and I 100% agree with the decision of the Mod who chose to take it down. The post was not something that would have advanced the discussion in this thread in any constructive way. Sorry.

We also ask that posters send PMs to Mods when they are confused about what happened to a removed or edited post. Diverting a thread with a discussion like the one we are having now is not generally productive.

I agree that it is not easy for newbies to comb through a lengthy thread. Still, they should at least make a little bit of effort. Perhaps one of us can try to sum up the Wall story in a post that the newbies can read and get most of their questions answered. Of course, such a post would become old shortly after it was posted and we would have to continually move it to the newest portions of the Wall thread. I am not sure I have the time or desire to do it right now.

--Jason "lets try to keep things civil as we await Mr. Wall's decision... I am sure it is only a few months away ;) " Evans

[cbnaylor]

As much as we would want this to end today, the John Wall incident has been somewhat exciting. I want John Wall to accept Duke as bad as the next person on this board, but if he doesn't accept Duke, it's not the end of the world. Duke has a really good team coming in this year and next. The one thing that is good about this whole hoopla around John Wall, is the fact that he could very well pick Duke and we should all be thankful that the #1 pg is even considering Duke. We need to remember where Duke has come from. There are schools that would love to be in Duke position right now with having such an elite player looking at their school. I can think of a few schools that would love to even have a #1 pg looking at their school.

So let's remember if Wall doesn't come, it's not the end of the world. We are still Duke and once again very soon, teams will fear the four letter word looking them dead in the eye on the basketball court......DUKE. In time.

[Indoor66]

Haven't YOU read all 2200+ posts?

Actually I have read most of them. That said, I could not tell you what the ones posted between 800 and 1000 or 1200 and 1600 said or what aspects of the subject they address. Redundancy is the norm rather than the exception in this thread!

[TaiAdmiral]

http://www.zagsblog.com/2009/05/12/sources-john-wall-down-to-two-fordham-releases-a-3rd-player-recruiting-notes/#more-16499

According to this, it's not looking good for us.

[gotham devil]

http://www.zagsblog.com/2009/05/12/sources-john-wall-down-to-two-fordham-releases-a-3rd-player-recruiting-notes/#more-16499

According to this, it's not looking good for us.
Good luck to Miami.
We should be able to win the ACC and contend for another Sweet 16 in 2009-2010. In 2011-2012, we can, perhaps, contend for another title.

[SupaDave]

http://www.zagsblog.com/2009/05/12/sources-john-wall-down-to-two-fordham-releases-a-3rd-player-recruiting-notes/#more-16499

according to this, it's not looking good for us.

abd! Abd! Abd! Abd! Lmao!

[Franzez]

Good luck to Miami.
We should be able to win the ACC and contend for another Sweet 16 in 2009-2010. In 2011-2012, we can, perhaps, contend for another title.
I dont see how he would put Miami over the top with going there but I can't lie I would love to be in Miami during the fall & winter.

The ACC is Duke's to lose, and Florida State's to win.

[Bluedog]

http://www.zagsblog.com/2009/05/12/sources-john-wall-down-to-two-fordham-releases-a-3rd-player-recruiting-notes/#more-16499

According to this, it's not looking good for us.

http://twitter.com/EvanDanielscout


The latest report on John Wall being down to two is inaccurate, according to his AAU coach Brian Clifton.