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Sobriquet
04-28-2009, 05:46 PM
Yes, I understand your point, but I maintain there's a distinction between recruiting an announced one-done, and private comments from a recruit to K. Perhaps this is a distinction without a real difference, but it seems important to me. K's on record as bemoaning the current situation, preferring a minimum 2-year commitment for any player who opts for college ball. [i.e., K says let 'em go straight to NBA from hs, but if a young man chooses college, it's gotta be 2 years]

Of course you're right that this is the new reality, but it's unsettling enough to K and others, including David Stern, that they're pushing hard for a change. Until change comes, yep, K and we must deal with the circus.

On the flip side, I would prefer kids who have announced ahead of time. IF K feels they will buy into the team concept.

I would prefer upfront knowledge rather than be surprised. Deng absolutely devastated Duke with his last second surprise. Devastated us. Maggete also hurt, but the remaining talent was enough to absorb his loss, but we were still a step behind where we would have been with C-Mag in the lineup.

Surprises kill you.

For instance, our pursuit of Wall has not altered our recruitment of a player at his position in the next class, AT ALL. If Wall were not a guaranteed one-and-done, we could not effectively recruit that class. There would be too much uncertainty by the recruits.

When a kid says he is a multi year player, and THEN bones you, well, you are good and BONED.

Also, Wall has never stated publicly, nor privately if the internet can be believed, that he is a one-and-done player.

The one-and-done talk stems from the fact that he is so good no one believes he needs more than one year in college to be a high draft pick.

I'll take 5 of him.

Pick Duke.

freshmanjs
04-28-2009, 06:12 PM
Yes, I understand your point, but I maintain there's a distinction between recruiting an announced one-done, and private comments from a recruit to K. Perhaps this is a distinction without a real difference, but it seems important to me.

i dont understand why you're calling wall an announced one-done? i haven't seem him announce that anywhere.

CameronBornAndBred
04-28-2009, 07:02 PM
i dont understand why you're calling wall an announced one-done? i haven't seem him announce that anywhere.
It's pretty commonly known that is his intent. Recently, he has stated "1 or 2 years" of college, if we got him with his stated intent of staying for 2, I would feel better. But as I said, he only recently has thrown the 2 in there. Unless he has the season that nobody expects, (which is way possible), he is a one and doner.

moonpie23
04-28-2009, 07:33 PM
IF duke gets john, the suspected NBA lock out (if it happens) could change everything with regard to how long john stays.......it's actually probably on G's discussion table as well...

superdave
04-28-2009, 07:47 PM
IF duke gets john, the suspected NBA lock out (if it happens) could change everything with regard to how long john stays.......it's actually probably on G's discussion table as well...

Bingo.

He may be a two-year college athlete.

kramerbr
04-28-2009, 08:42 PM
Bingo.

He may be a two-year college athlete.

As long as he doesn't go to the college that might actually pay him for his two years of college besides the free education....:cool:

SupaDave
04-29-2009, 12:17 PM
THIS really stuck out to me in the Duke Insider Article...


But in the last days of March, both sides appeared to be moving closer together. Wall, who told recruiting writers that he was not necessarily a one-and-done player, visited the Duke campus on the same day as Liberty freshman Seth Curry...

UrinalCake
04-29-2009, 12:20 PM
On the flip side, I would prefer kids who have announced ahead of time. IF K feels they will buy into the team concept. I would prefer upfront knowledge rather than be surprised.

A lot of these guys just don't know that they're going to go pro after a year. I don't think Deng knew. A year after he left I read a short interview with him and he was asked if he thought it was the right decision to leave Duke, and even then he wasn't sure if it was or not.

On the flip side, guys like Patrick Patterson and Greg Monroe were assumed to be one-and-doners. Patterson stayed longer and Monroe still might. Then consider that coaches start recruiting these guys when they're sophomores and juniors in high school. It's a little unreasonable to say we should filter out the one-and-done'ers when we don't even know who they're going to be that early in the game.

Chard
04-29-2009, 12:25 PM
This blog post (http://miamiherald.typepad.com/umiami/2009/04/wall-gives-um-high-marks-after-visit.html) is a bit more informative than the one linked on the front page:

Manny is a great beat writer. I really like his work.

SilkyJ
04-29-2009, 12:27 PM
THIS really stuck out to me in the Duke Insider Article...

care to elaborate on why you think that is meaningful? You think maybe Seth might be able to convince him to come? Or maybe stick around for more than one year if he does come? I guess its always nice to know a person or two that is going to be coming to campus the same time as you are....you think its anything more than that?

watzone
04-29-2009, 12:39 PM
Suppose Wall comes to Duke. I don't think the talk (long threads) will stop until he is gone. I have a little scoop for you ... something will happen in May;)

johaad
04-29-2009, 12:48 PM
Suppose Wall comes to Duke. I don't think the talk (long threads) will stop until he is gone. I have a little scoop for you ... something will happen in May;)

You're right, John Wall will cut his list on Friday May 1. I hope something else happens in May which will benefit Duke...

CameronBornAndBred
04-29-2009, 12:56 PM
This blog post (http://miamiherald.typepad.com/umiami/2009/04/wall-gives-um-high-marks-after-visit.html) is a bit more informative than the one linked on the front page:

Manny is a great beat writer. I really like his work.
From the article you linked.
"Do I want to leave home for a year? I mean you can't control where you get drafted, so this would be my last year at home."
Still sounding like one and done to me.

Bluedog
04-29-2009, 01:19 PM
This blog post (http://miamiherald.typepad.com/umiami/2009/04/wall-gives-um-high-marks-after-visit.html) is a bit more informative than the one linked on the front page:

Manny is a great beat writer. I really like his work.

I love how the comments section of that article are almost universally focused on Florida vs. Miami in FOOTBALL. That tells you the priorities of the fans. Yeah, I don't think he's going to Miami despite the fact that it looked like he enjoyed his visit.

JasonEvans
04-29-2009, 01:37 PM
I love how the comments section of that article are almost universally focused on Florida vs. Miami in FOOTBALL. That tells you the priorities of the fans. Yeah, I don't think he's going to Miami despite the fact that it looked like he enjoyed his visit.

If John Wall ends up at Miami, I will go out and purchase a Hurricanes hat that I will then consume.

Ain't happening, folks. Duke or Kentucky or maybe (tiny chance) Florida or Baylor. I'd rate it at Duke 40%, Kentucky 40%, Florida 5%, Baylor 5%, UNC 5%, and a total shocker (NCSt, Miami, Memphis, play in Europe) at 5% total.

-Jason "I am really liking our odds... maybe I should go to Duke 50% and Kentucky 30%" Evans

Sobriquet
04-29-2009, 01:43 PM
I love how the comments section of that article are almost universally focused on Florida vs. Miami in FOOTBALL. That tells you the priorities of the fans. Yeah, I don't think he's going to Miami despite the fact that it looked like he enjoyed his visit.

I think we as fans put way too much importance on visits. For the players, they already know they like the program if they've granted them a visit. They are just trying to see if something rubs them the wrong way about their potential teammates, the staff, or anything.

In olden times, a visit might be the first time a player really had any experience with or knowledge of a campus. Today, kids play tourneys all over, and they have seen the campus on TV or the internet. Most of the kids we recruit have met each other in some venue at a camp or tourney or something. If a team had a guy you already knew you hated or couldn't play wity, they wouldn't even get a visit.

TV and the web is not as good as being there ion person, but they get a feel for the place. For instance, I saw NCSU's campus on TV, and knew I wouldn't like the urban feel of the campus. It is a solid school, but it just wasn't for me. Same with these recruits. They have a general idea about the campus before ever agreeing to a visit, to say nothing of unofficial visists.

I mean, who has a BAD time on a campus visit? You see a college campus, many of which are beautiful. You go to the best restaurants on campus, and you get to pal around with some of the most popular guys on campus (the team).

Of course you get to go to some cool parties. Nothing illegal or shady, just some colllege kids doing what they do on the weeked.

To top it off, every media outlet and student AND the staff kiss your rear for a weekend and tell you how you are the lynch pin to a FF.

What kind of sociopath would have a BAD time in that scenario? What isn't fun about a campus visit?

Miami is a great town and the school is good. I am sure he had a good visit. That doesn't mean it altered his thinking, at all.

BD80
04-29-2009, 01:48 PM
If John Wall ends up at Miami, I will go out and purchase a Hurricanes hat that I will then consume.

Ain't happening, folks. Duke or Kentucky or maybe (tiny chance) Florida or Baylor. I'd rate it at Duke 40%, Kentucky 40%, Florida 5%, Baylor 5%, UNC 5%, and a total shocker (NCSt, Miami, Memphis, play in Europe) at 5% total.

-Jason "I am really liking our odds... maybe I should go to Duke 50% and Kentucky 30%" Evans

I'd rate it at Duke 65%, Kentucky 35%, Florida 4%, Baylor 4%, UNC 2%

I still can't figure out why I don't get hired to take the ACT exams any more ...

CameronBornAndBred
04-29-2009, 01:54 PM
I'd rate it at Duke 65%, Kentucky 35%, Florida 4%, Baylor 4%, UNC 2%

I still can't figure out why I don't get hired to take the ACT exams any more ...
Because you no longer give your full 110%. :D

El_Diablo
04-29-2009, 02:17 PM
Because you no longer give your full 110%. :D

haha, good catch.

BD80
04-29-2009, 02:35 PM
Because you no longer give your full 110%. :D

Like a Viking giant with a basketball in one hand and a club in the other, standing 10, 11, 12 feet tall.

DIABLOS NUMBER ONE!!!

Greg_Newton
04-29-2009, 03:00 PM
But I've been wondering, is it just the general consensus now the Carolina is no longer a player in the John Wall saga whatsoever? Three weeks ago the sky was falling because Carolina was undoubtably going to offer Wall once Lawson declared and Wall was undoubtably going to accept the offer because he was a lifelong Carolina fan, liked their style of play better, wanted easier academics, just saw them win a NC, etc, etc, etc...

Now, as far as I know, he has never clearly said he is not interested in Carolina, and vice versa... however, the lack of any offer or news on the UNC-Wall front since Lawson's declaration seems to have quelled everyone's fears. I only bring this up because Carolina is the only other team that, IMextremelyHO, would have a legitimate chance to land wall besides Duke and Kentucky, and it doesn't really seem logical for ol' Roy to just take an early summer vacation instead of going after a player they need every bit as "desperately" as Duke to make them a contender next year.

I just can't him feeling a little bit uncomfortable about what Roy might be trying to pull behind the scenes here...

JasonEvans
04-29-2009, 03:11 PM
But I've been wondering, is it just the general consensus now the Carolina is no longer a player in the John Wall saga whatsoever? Three weeks ago the sky was falling because Carolina was undoubtably going to offer Wall once Lawson declared and Wall was undoubtably going to accept the offer because he was a lifelong Carolina fan, liked their style of play better, wanted easier academics, just saw them win a NC, etc, etc, etc...

Now, as far as I know, he has never clearly said he is not interested in Carolina, and vice versa... however, the lack of any offer or news on the UNC-Wall front since Lawson's declaration seems to have quelled everyone's fears. I only bring this up because Carolina is the only other team that, IMextremelyHO, would have a legitimate chance to land wall besides Duke and Kentucky, and it doesn't really seem logical for ol' Roy to just take an early summer vacation instead of going after a player they need every bit as "desperately" as Duke to make them a contender next year.

I just can't him feeling a little bit uncomfortable about what Roy might be trying to pull behind the scenes here...

Brian Clifton has made it very clear that Carolina is not going to be a player so long as he is still in the picture. Clifton has been Wall's father figure for several years now and is clearly quite influential in the decision-making process.

Roy never went that hard after Wall and it is always hard to get in late-- doubly hard if one of the closest advisers wants no part of you.

I think Roy put out some feelers, was rebuffed, and has not bothered to come back for more because he knows it would be a waste of time.

--Jason "Carolina is not even on Wall's list in most media stories about him" Evans

dubayuw
04-29-2009, 03:56 PM
The longer this recruitment goes on the more I think that he is coming Duke and I get the impression that most posters feel the same way. I get the feeling that he really wants to be close to home on a contending team and since UNC isnt making a move that leaves us.

watzone
04-29-2009, 04:12 PM
You're right, John Wall will cut his list on Friday May 1. I hope something else happens in May which will benefit Duke...


I guess my humor didn't translate well;) Trust me, the winds change percentages daily.

Bluedog
04-29-2009, 04:38 PM
The thing I don't get (and maybe this has already been addressed) is how could Wall possibly commit to UK when they don't even have scholarships available as of now? If Meeks and Patterson both come back, that's 14 on the team, so Cal would have to eliminate one person as it is. He has scholarship offers to Wall and Bledsoe, so that would bring it up to 16 if Meeks +PP come back and 14 (still one too many) if they stay in the draft. Obviously, Cal could easily eliminate more players or get rid of their scholarships since they're renewed annually (as there have already been something like 5 transfers/decommits), but if I was Wall, wouldn't I wait until it was verified that there is an open scholarship? Or should we just assume that Cal has told Wall that if he commits to UK, he'll let somebody else loose?

CameronBornAndBred
04-29-2009, 04:46 PM
Or should we just assume that Cal has told Wall that if he commits to UK, he'll let somebody else loose?
If Wall has an offer to Kentucky, then that is the understanding. How'd you like to be on the current roster waiting his decision?

SilkyJ
04-29-2009, 05:24 PM
Three weeks ago the sky was falling because Carolina was undoubtably going to offer Wall once Lawson declared and Wall was undoubtably going to accept the offer because he was a lifelong Carolina fan, liked their style of play better, wanted easier academics, just saw them win a NC, etc, etc, etc...


Actually, for many of us that was not the case. Unfortunately this board and this thread in particular have been overrun with less experienced posters who harp on insignificant details, over-analyze rumors and speculation, and generally have no idea what they are talking about. They made it seem like the sky is falling. If you pay attention to those posters who are seasoned, intelligent, and informed (which in this thread is nearly impossible to do since that group is outnumbered 10-1) then you would not have had this impression, though as I said, its hardly your fault.

SupaDave
04-29-2009, 05:25 PM
care to elaborate on why you think that is meaningful? You think maybe Seth might be able to convince him to come? Or maybe stick around for more than one year if he does come? I guess its always nice to know a person or two that is going to be coming to campus the same time as you are....you think its anything more than that?

Yes - even though you pretty much did it for me, it is GREAT for a recruit to see another recruit. Especially, if the other recruit is not only highly touted but he committed that day that you saw him. Note that Thornton, Hairston, and Dawkins all signed relatively close to each other.

Greg_Newton
04-29-2009, 05:59 PM
Actually, for many of us that was not the case. Unfortunately this board and this thread in particular have been overrun with less experienced posters who harp on insignificant details, over-analyze rumors and speculation, and generally have no idea what they are talking about. They made it seem like the sky is falling. If you pay attention to those posters who are seasoned, intelligent, and informed (which in this thread is nearly impossible to do since that group is outnumbered 10-1) then you would not have had this impression, though as I said, its hardly your fault.

I was probably a little overly dramatic there... my point was just that three weeks ago, Carolina at least seemed like a legitimate potential threat to get Wall. Even though Wall didn't include them on his lists, he seemed to indicate he would be very open to them IF they were to decide to pursue him. Since I hadn't heard any news either way since then, I thought it was interesting that Carolina is never even mentioned anymore. Even if they were to "officially" jump in the race this late, I would still probably give them a better shot than Memphis/NCSU/Miami/Baylor, and probably Kansas simply given their current program reputation and the makeup of their team... when you're looking for a 1-year home, these type of factors are likely more important than how long schools have been recruiting you (see Duke and Kentucky vs. NCSU and Baylor).

Again, this is all just my very humble opinion.

Saratoga2
04-29-2009, 06:34 PM
The thing I don't get (and maybe this has already been addressed) is how could Wall possibly commit to UK when they don't even have scholarships available as of now? If Meeks and Patterson both come back, that's 14 on the team, so Cal would have to eliminate one person as it is. He has scholarship offers to Wall and Bledsoe, so that would bring it up to 16 if Meeks +PP come back and 14 (still one too many) if they stay in the draft. Obviously, Cal could easily eliminate more players or get rid of their scholarships since they're renewed annually (as there have already been something like 5 transfers/decommits), but if I was Wall, wouldn't I wait until it was verified that there is an open scholarship? Or should we just assume that Cal has told Wall that if he commits to UK, he'll let somebody else loose?

As a recruit, would you think it okay to cut someone elses scholarship to let you come in. Think of the cut players friends on the team. I think Wall is a sensitive kid and he would find that approach inappropriate.

CameronBornAndBred
04-29-2009, 09:30 PM
As a recruit, would you think it okay to cut someone elses scholarship to let you come in. Think of the cut players friends on the team. I think Wall is a sensitive kid and he would find that approach inappropriate.
As a stated one and done player who is looking millions of dollars in the face, I'm not sure he gives a rat's azz. As a recruit looking to make the most for himself in the eyes of the NBA, I might eat my "friends" for lunch.
I would hope he cares, but I don't think your argument for sensitivety is a good one. It would hold more water if he were planning on staying around a while in school. Ask any NBA player if they would rather the guy sitting next to him were there next year if it meant it cost him money. That's what Wall boils down to in the short term of his one year in school.

mgtr
04-29-2009, 11:10 PM
Can anyone imagine this kind of worry and analysis (note the first half of that word!) on any subject other than basketball at Duke or football at some other schools? Can't you hear it now? Man, oh man, if we land Smith from MIT we will have the top Physics program in the country! I can't believe it, Jones in Chem may go international! And we have a shot at landing Johnson in Econ from Harvard -- that would be great, we would have the best Econ program ever!
Perhaps we spend excess energy worrying about the wrong things.

wilson
04-29-2009, 11:45 PM
Can anyone imagine this kind of worry and analysis (note the first half of that word!) on any subject other than basketball at Duke or football at some other schools? Can't you hear it now? Man, oh man, if we land Smith from MIT we will have the top Physics program in the country! I can't believe it, Jones in Chem may go international! And we have a shot at landing Johnson in Econ from Harvard -- that would be great, we would have the best Econ program ever!
Perhaps we spend excess energy worrying about the wrong things.

And perhaps the sun will come up again in the morning.

BlueintheFace
04-29-2009, 11:58 PM
I know some disagree with me, but I thoroughly enjoy this thread. The off season is ALL ABOUT fretting over recruits, wild speculation, creating inside jokes, and the like. So long as nobody is ripping the players or coaches, I think it is all fun stuff. Yah, nobody knows anything, but if you are taking definitive statements by posters seriously with no links to back up their statements.. that is just your fault.

Speculate away. John Wall is a lock for Duke? Cool, what is your reasoning, what are your assumptions? Oh really, you have none? Fine by me. It's the off season baby.

SilkyJ
04-30-2009, 12:54 AM
I was probably a little overly dramatic there... my point was just that three weeks ago, Carolina at least seemed like a legitimate potential threat to get Wall. Even though Wall didn't include them on his lists, he seemed to indicate he would be very open to them IF they were to decide to pursue him. Since I hadn't heard any news either way since then, I thought it was interesting that Carolina is never even mentioned anymore. Even if they were to "officially" jump in the race this late, I would still probably give them a better shot than Memphis/NCSU/Miami/Baylor, and probably Kansas simply given their current program reputation and the makeup of their team... when you're looking for a 1-year home, these type of factors are likely more important than how long schools have been recruiting you (see Duke and Kentucky vs. NCSU and Baylor).

Again, this is all just my very humble opinion.

I think your humble opinion is pretty much inline with the general thinking right now, as best as I can tell...


Can anyone imagine this kind of worry and analysis (note the first half of that word!) on any subject other than basketball at Duke or football at some other schools? Can't you hear it now? Man, oh man, if we land Smith from MIT we will have the top Physics program in the country! I can't believe it, Jones in Chem may go international! And we have a shot at landing Johnson in Econ from Harvard -- that would be great, we would have the best Econ program ever!
Perhaps we spend excess energy worrying about the wrong things.

Perhaps. But Duke has a 10 figure endowment and is run by an English professor from Yale, so I think plenty of energy has been and will be spent on the "right" things.

BlueintheFace
04-30-2009, 01:00 AM
Can anyone imagine this kind of worry and analysis (note the first half of that word!) on any subject other than basketball at Duke or football at some other schools? Can't you hear it now? Man, oh man, if we land Smith from MIT we will have the top Physics program in the country! I can't believe it, Jones in Chem may go international! And we have a shot at landing Johnson in Econ from Harvard -- that would be great, we would have the best Econ program ever!
Perhaps we spend excess energy worrying about the wrong things.

... all i have to say is that you would be aMAAAAZed at the level of analysis and fretting that takes place in top tier academic institutions at the administrative level. Obviously you don't have thousands of people freaking out about faculty, but the craziness is there in smaller numbers (especially around the time USN&WR comes out).

SilkyJ
04-30-2009, 01:09 AM
The off season is ALL ABOUT fretting over recruits, wild speculation, creating inside jokes, and the like. So long as nobody is ripping the players or coaches, I think it is all fun stuff. Yah, nobody knows anything, but if you are taking definitive statements by posters seriously with no links to back up their statements.. that is just your fault.

Speculate away. John Wall is a lock for Duke? Cool, what is your reasoning, what are your assumptions? Oh really, you have none? Fine by me. It's the off season baby.

I very strongly disagree with much of this. Your statement that "nobody knows anything" is ridiculous. There must be a dozen or more regular posters on this board with strong relationships within the program or duke athletics in general.

Secondly, I don't think "wild speculation" is a part of what this board is for.
This board is about thoughtful discussion. Having fun and making jokes too. But people are saying "John Wall is a lock for Duke" with no more reasoning than "I just know he'd love it here" and being serious. What purpose does that serve?

I think reasonable speculation like "Ryan Kelly could play 20mpg next year" or "elliot could make an all-acc team next year" is perfectly fine and exactly what the offseason is for. There are facts there to support those arguments. Kelly is a very good shooter and brings size to the table and we are short on guards and may be forced to go big often. Elliot came on very strong to close the year and is probably our best attacker of the basket (hopefully not ;) ). Not to mention he has shown how good of a defender he is. Those are all reasonable statements.

Wild speculation serves no purpose and does not add to the discussion, and can be subject to an infraction. Someone posting right now or even 2 months ago that "John Wall will go to St Johns b/c they play in MSG and its the biggest stage in basketball" is not what this board is for. Not to mention its a completely useless statement and totally absurd yet bears some actual reasoning making it more than you are asking for. Moreover, I would probably file it under:

"Needless Posting - For posts wholly without redeeming qualities that don't rise to a more serious infraction. Think before you post."

BlueintheFace
04-30-2009, 01:29 AM
I very strongly disagree with much of this. Your statement that "nobody knows anything" is ridiculous. There must be a dozen or more regular posters on this board with strong relationships within the program or duke athletics in general.

Secondly, I don't think "wild speculation" is a part of what this board is for.
This board is about thoughtful discussion. Having fun and making jokes too. But people are saying "John Wall is a lock for Duke" with no more reasoning than "I just know he'd love it here" and being serious. What purpose does that serve?

I think reasonable speculation like "Ryan Kelly could play 20mpg next year" or "elliot could make an all-acc team next year" is perfectly fine and exactly what the offseason is for. There are facts there to support those arguments. Kelly is a very good shooter and brings size to the table and we are short on guards and may be forced to go big often. Elliot came on very strong to close the year and is probably our best attacker of the basket (hopefully not ;) ). Not to mention he has shown how good of a defender he is. Those are all reasonable statements.

Wild speculation serves no purpose and does not add to the discussion, and can be subject to an infraction. Someone posting right now or even 2 months ago that "John Wall will go to St Johns b/c they play in MSG and its the biggest stage in basketball" is not what this board is for. Not to mention its a completely useless statement That statement is totally absurd yet bears some actual reasoning making it more than you are asking for. Moreover, I would probably file it under:

"Needless Posting - For posts wholly without redeeming qualities that don't rise to a more serious infraction. Think before you post."

First, I very obviously didn't mean that nobody knows anything about any topic. I was speaking specifically to recruiting (watzone being the only consistent exception of course).

Second, I'm not seeing a lot of posts that say, "John Wall is coming to Duke because it is awesome." This kind of post obviously has no redeeming quality.

However, I like some of the speculation on recruits based on limited information. Everybody may be working off of the same limited information.

John Wall visited School X
He said A
He said B
He said C
His coach said Y
Coach K said Z

Posters then choose the elements they find most important, combine them, and try to piece together a logical fabric for a conclusion. Does this make sense given the limited information, probably not. Still, it's an exercise in debate that revolves around potentially relevant recruiting information. Why Not? For those who decide to use less convincing elements like "Duke is better than Kentucky" they are shouted down and ripped for objectively inferior arguments.

It's the same intellectual darwinism that we see on the board during the season, only now in the off season, the topics around which the debates revolve are less relevant to Duke basketball as a result of the dearth of information that comes with recruiting.

RelativeWays
04-30-2009, 07:24 AM
I've decided that recruiting threads, and this one in particular are the message board equivalent to a kidney stone. Make the agony end! :eek: :D

NYDukie
04-30-2009, 08:10 AM
I've decided that recruiting threads, and this one in particular are the message board equivalent to a kidney stone. Make the agony end! :eek: :D

All I know is that you have a possible 30 days of agony to endure in May according to the reports that there may, and I emphasis the word "may", be a end game in sight for Wall this May. Hope you pass that stress test if you have a physical this month...LOL

Getting close to 1800 posts.

duke4ever19
04-30-2009, 09:55 AM
This is my first post at this fine website! :)

I've noticed that UK fans are saying they have info as of today that Wall has chosen UK. Apparently its been on the radio. Anybody heard this?

Can anybody give any further info on this? I know its probably just a rumor, but with it being put on the radio gives it a tad more weight.

Somebody please tell me this info has already been proven false.

duke4ever19
04-30-2009, 10:02 AM
I would give a link but I'm not saying its legit (obviously).

I just wanted to know if anybody else heard the same and could verify that its another false report from the UK folks.

CMS2478
04-30-2009, 10:24 AM
I would give a link but I'm not saying its legit (obviously).

I just wanted to know if anybody else heard the same and could verify that its another false report from the UK folks.

Yeah, they were claiming that some guy said on his radio show that Wall was going to UK and the guy came out later and said that he hadn't even been on the radio that night and debunked the whole rumor. Wall may end up at UK, but this particular rumor is false.

jatotown
04-30-2009, 01:11 PM
That's what I saw on the Ky boards as well.

However, I have consulted my magic 8 ball, digging it out of the attic, and asked: "Where will John Wall go?"

It said:

"Reply hazy, try again."

Well, there you have it.

allenmurray
04-30-2009, 01:17 PM
Is that the University of Reply Hazy Try Again or is it the less well known East Hazyreply Try Again state?? There is a big difference between the two schools, both in regards to academics and basketball programs. In any event I think I will go out and get a RHTA t-shirt.

SilkyJ
04-30-2009, 02:14 PM
First, I very obviously didn't mean that nobody knows anything about any topic.....

However, I like some of the speculation on recruits based on limited information. Everybody may be working off of the same limited information.

John Wall visited School X
He said A
He said B
He said C
His coach said Y
Coach K said Z


Fine, but this ^ post is way different from the below post. What you offer up above is an example of "reasoning." Earlier you said no reasoning required.



Speculate away. John Wall is a lock for Duke? Cool, what is your reasoning, what are your assumptions? Oh really, you have none? Fine by me. It's the off season baby.

BlueintheFace
04-30-2009, 03:33 PM
Fine, but this ^ post is way different from the below post. What you offer up above is an example of "reasoning." Earlier you said no reasoning required.

alright, alright. Fair enough. When I said "NO Reasoning" I suppose I wasn't being literal. I can't imagine that somebody would just post something with ZERO reasoning. It makes me think of the Anchorman... "I love Lamp."

I haven't seen a whole lot of that, but maybe my radar is off for such a thing.

rhcpflea99
04-30-2009, 07:42 PM
http://www.nbcmiami.com/sports/basketball/hurricanes/Source-John-Wall-Choosing-Between-UM--Kentucky.html

roywhite
04-30-2009, 07:46 PM
http://www.nbcmiami.com/sports/basketball/hurricanes/Source-John-Wall-Choosing-Between-UM--Kentucky.html

I'll see that report and raise you with this one...a visit to NC Central, of all places.

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/prepsnow/wall-recruitment-takes-a-new-twist

Devil07
04-30-2009, 08:02 PM
I'll see that report and raise you with this one...a visit to NC Central, of all places.

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/prepsnow/wall-recruitment-takes-a-new-twist

And here I thought it was a joke when people said that he'd actually add to his list this week...guess that's what I get for thinking...

chrisheery
04-30-2009, 08:05 PM
I'll see that report and raise you with this one...a visit to NC Central, of all places.

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/prepsnow/wall-recruitment-takes-a-new-twist

Is it possible he will never choose a college? I mean, I really want the guy, I think it would be fun to watch a guy of this talent level for a year, as long as Coach K thinks he would fit, which he seems to. But, come on, man. Just pick a school already. His Pro/Con list must be unwieldy at this point.

I think the Central visit is more to help the rep of this coach he knows, but still, this is just getting silly.

kramerbr
04-30-2009, 08:05 PM
http://www.nbcmiami.com/sports/basketball/hurricanes/Source-John-Wall-Choosing-Between-UM--Kentucky.html

Wall has been playing everything so incredibly close to his vest that he isn't going to tell some scrub from Miami that it is between them and UK. Especially when he is planning on cutting his list in the next week.

Interesting first post...are you from Miami or Kentucky?

Welcome2DaSlopes
04-30-2009, 08:09 PM
I like john wall but it's becoming a love hate thing with this long wait haha

dubayuw
04-30-2009, 08:21 PM
I'll see that report and raise you with this one...a visit to NC Central, of all places.

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/prepsn...es-a-new-twist

What if he never picks a college?!?!?!?!?!:eek::eek::eek:

johaad
04-30-2009, 08:32 PM
http://www.nbcmiami.com/sports/basketball/hurricanes/Source-John-Wall-Choosing-Between-UM--Kentucky.html

I'm sorry, I don't buy this either. This is the most ridiculous thing I have heard (including the Central visit). Like someone else said, he isn't going to tell some guy that it is between Miami and Kentucky. ALso, look how the source is quoted. It originally makes it seem like UM made the statement, but then switches to some other guy. I do appreciate the info though. Let me just say this, I will be more disappointed than almost anything(UK) else if he goes to UM. If he wants to be a hurricane, he should take up hockey.

BlueintheFace
04-30-2009, 08:33 PM
I'll see that report and raise you with this one...a visit to NC Central, of all places.

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/prepsnow/wall-recruitment-takes-a-new-twist

I fold.

Oriole Way
04-30-2009, 08:50 PM
The most recent blog post about NC Central makes Wall look like a huge drama queen. At this point he's turning his recruitment into a show.

His visit to Miami was just a free trip to visit a nice area. Similar to Boynton's trip to USC for a football game, you might as well take advantage. But this NC Central stuff is out of left field.

Atlanta Duke
04-30-2009, 09:25 PM
Prolonging the suspense as a kid athlete keeps adults who should know better agonizing over this sort of drama is probably unavoidable when you combine an Internet/cable sports culture that will gum any subject to death and the rapture of an adolescent being the star of his own movie

The same show went on as current Ohio State QB prodigy Terrelle Pryor strung out his decision in the spring of 2008 - link below

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/football/news/story?id=3300355

You either follow the drama or ignore it - as the post count for this thread approaches 2000 it appears DBR posters prefer not to ignore the subject:)

Edouble
04-30-2009, 11:47 PM
Did it occur to anyone else that there are many historically black universities out there: Virginia Union, Howard, Morehouse, et al. Wall, however, chose to visit the one located in Durham. It's obvious that he's visiting Central because he has a relationship with the coach. I wonder though, if the UK contingency is squirming with paranioa that he's gonna be going back through Durham again. :D

BuschDevil
05-01-2009, 12:31 AM
NC Central... you know, regardless of the chances he would actually go to Central, the attention this will give that program just to be mentioned in top recruiting circles with Duke, Kentucky, etc. will be priceless to a program just starting out in Div-I.

Go Duke! ... & Go NCCU!

mo.st.dukie
05-01-2009, 12:40 AM
I like john wall but it's becoming a love hate thing with this long wait haha

I guess you weren't on message boards during the Lance Thomas and Patrick Patterson recruitments. Talk about a long wait, those were rediculous, especially Patterson's. Waiting is all a apart of the recruiting game, just imagine how the coaches feel.

Indoor66
05-01-2009, 07:39 AM
Waiting is all a apart of the recruiting game, just imagine how the coaches feel.

I imagine the coaches, being professionals, are far calmer than some of the posters on this board. :)

Devilsfan
05-01-2009, 07:58 AM
Hope NCSU hypes what a great place Durham is to live.

obsesseddukefan
05-01-2009, 08:56 AM
But to be honest, as good as Wall is, I am not sure if I want him to come to Duke. Reason being is that I fear we run into another "McBob" as far as attitude and chemistry. We all saw the difference the between the teams that had McBob, and the teams that didnt...there was no chemistry only a lot of arrogance. I for one dont want a one and done, especially if he is going to bring attitude and a "me me me" mindset.
Last, if he does come can you imagine the amount of pressure to win a NC? I think last year proved that if you play your game and have fun with it, you can go far. Did we win the NC..no, but it has been a while since I saw Coach K and the players hug and hi-five each other..I will take that emotion all day long..even if we dont win the NC.
Is Wall good....hell yes. Would we better with him...probably. But it comes with a price. I dont know him and only speculating, but a person with that amount of talent being recruited by major schools, I find it hard to believe that Wall wouldnt come in with a big head...especially an 18 year old.
Just my thoughts...:)

UrinalCake
05-01-2009, 09:04 AM
But to be honest, as good as Wall is, I am not sure if I want him to come to Duke.

We've had similar discussions many times over in this thread. Is it possible that Wall could bring problems or "baggage" off the court? Yes. But the general response of those who support him coming is 1.) his negatives have been somewhat overblown by the media, and 2.) Coach K has analyzed the situation and decides that he wants him, and that's good enough for us.

Any time you bring in a talented player or players, there's pressure to do well. McRoberts was an example of a player who didn't live up to expectations, but there are plenty who did. When Deng came in, Coach K called him the most talented player on the team even before he played a single minute for us. He handled the pressure and played well within the team. Who's to say Wall can't do the same?

Do you want to have great talent and face pressure to do well, with the understanding that you might fail? Or would you rather not have that talent to begin with and therefore not have anything to lose? Note that I am NOT saying that the rest of our team is not talented; my point is that I'd rather bring in another great player and enjoy the heightened expectations.

Kedsy
05-01-2009, 09:06 AM
I dont know him and only speculating, but a person with that amount of talent being recruited by major schools, I find it hard to believe that Wall wouldnt come in with a big head...especially an 18 year old.
Just my thoughts...:)

Every kid who comes to Duke is recruited by major schools. They're not all good enough to be surefire one-and-done candidates, but they all have a lot of talent and they were all "the man" in high school. Yet most of them have (as far as I can tell) normal sized heads. Everyone has an unfounded opinion about John Wall. Give the kid a chance.

Kedsy
05-01-2009, 09:07 AM
Hope NCSU hypes what a great place Durham is to live.

Well, since NCSU is in Raleigh, I assume you mean NCCU?

Chard
05-01-2009, 10:04 AM
Guess you guys haven't heard of Bryce Brown (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/andy_staples/03/16/brown-tennessee/index.html) and his recent recruiting saga. John Wall is a saint in comparison.

Get used to it guys. This is the way it is.

Did any of you watch the video on the nbcmiami page that was linked in this thread and on the main page? That intro cracked me up. All slow motion and stuff. It's getting crazy.

SupaDave
05-01-2009, 11:08 AM
NC Central... you know, regardless of the chances he would actually go to Central, the attention this will give that program just to be mentioned in top recruiting circles with Duke, Kentucky, etc. will be priceless to a program just starting out in Div-I.

Go Duke! ... & Go NCCU!

As an HBCU alum, the acknowledgement alone is a very special thing. And as an N.C. A&T alum, Wall goes to NCCU over my dead body!!!

geraldsneighbor
05-01-2009, 11:16 AM
This is an absolute show. I am worried that UM seems to have gained ground however.

K-Duke
05-01-2009, 11:32 AM
This is an absolute show. I am worried that UM seems to have gained ground however.

No kidding. One minute I think the sky is falling and he's going to UNC. Then, it looks like he was going to go to KY all along. Then, things were looking good for Duke and I was getting excited. Now, these reports coming from Miami... Of course, the lesson here is to just not get all worked up about it in the first place, getting swept up by every little rumor, and just let things happen. As this thread indicates, however, easier said than done!

tbyers11
05-01-2009, 11:34 AM
This is an absolute show. I am worried that UM seems to have gained ground however.

Every school gets a bump right after a prized recruit visits them because the recruit always says nice things about the school.

IMHO, I don't buy this Miami thing for Wall, though. If a recruit is really wowed by a place, he will often commit immediately after visiting it. See Greg Monroe to Georgetown or Jason Williams to Duke.

As just about everyone else in the this thread, I have no insider info, but I would be shocked if Wall ends up anywhere besides UK or Duke.

allenmurray
05-01-2009, 11:34 AM
I hope he goes to NCCU (not that I wouldn't like to see him go to Duke). For a HBCU in only its second year in Division I, that isn't even in a conference yet, to land such a recruit would be huge for them. They would go from being relatively unknown to being on TV regularly. It would be fun to watch.

moonpie23
05-01-2009, 12:06 PM
I wonder if he's gonna visit Shaw Univ?..

allenmurray
05-01-2009, 12:12 PM
I wonder if he's gonna visit Shaw Univ?..

He said he was interested in looking at an HBCU - NCCU has a better academic and athletic reputation than Shaw.

Scorp4me
05-01-2009, 12:25 PM
I said I don't know how many pages ago that this is going to end bad. I just don't know when the end will be. Maybe soon, maybe later, as obsesseddukefan said maybe not til next year. But nice to see I'm no longer alone in my thinking.

NYDukie
05-01-2009, 01:03 PM
I don't begrude John Wall the opportunity to evaluate all the schools on his list, be it for a educated decision on his personal, basketball and academic future or just for the attention the whole process had brought him. I tend to believe its more the former than the latter, call me a sucka or not. However, I will say this as a Duke fan, I cannot wait until this is over because its been such a drawn out process that it has sucked a lot my Duke energy out of me, as silly as this sounds. Don't get me wroing, I do hope he comes to Duke and if not, then the best of luck wherever he goes, just not at UNC or the U. I just need something else to grasp onto related to the team (a Barnes committment, Knight including us on this short list) or just take that 2-4 week break from Duke basketball matters to recharge...just like a vacation...LOL I just feel drained.

Yet, this all reminds me of trying to get away for a summer weekend from NYC and being stuck in traffic because of an accident or breakdown and it just sucking you dry. Yet, as you get near it you can't help to slow down and rubberneck and check things out no matter how bad you want to move on and get to where you need to be.

blueprofessor
05-01-2009, 01:36 PM
I don't begrude John Wall the opportunity to evaluate all the schools on his list, be it for a educated decision on his personal, basketball and academic future or just for the attention the whole process had brought him. I tend to believe its more the former than the latter, call me a sucka or not. However, I will say this as a Duke fan, I cannot wait until this is over because its been such a drawn out process that it has sucked a lot my Duke energy out of me, as silly as this sounds. Don't get me wroing, I do hope he comes to Duke and if not, then the best of luck wherever he goes, just not at UNC or the U. I just need something else to grasp onto related to the team (a Barnes committment, Knight including us on this short list) or just take that 2-4 week break from Duke basketball matters to recharge...just like a vacation...LOL I just feel drained.

Yet, this all reminds me of trying to get away for a summer weekend from NYC and being stuck in traffic because of an accident or breakdown and it just sucking you dry. Yet, as you get near it you can't help to slow down and rubberneck and check things out no matter how bad you want to move on and get to where you need to be.

You have captured the mood precisely,NYDukie!
I hope I live long enough to discover the outcome.
Let's hope JWall does arrive and that BKnight (Estragon) and Barnes (Vladimir)
are here on a commitment visit to greet him!:D

Best--Blueprofessor:)

miramar
05-01-2009, 02:30 PM
Pardon me if someone has already inquired, but is this the longest thread in DBR history?

Matches
05-01-2009, 02:45 PM
Pardon me if someone has already inquired, but is this the longest thread in DBR history?

Not even close.

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5554

But if Wall commits to UNC I think it could become competitive.

dukelifer
05-01-2009, 03:09 PM
John Wall is supposed to narrow his list from 8 today (which does not currently include UNC) of which there is no leader. Then he added one more so he will narrow it from 9. But since he has not visited NCCU- will it be on the list? I honestly don't expect a list today. Even John's Mom is getting tired of this indecision. From the N&O

"It is a really tough decision right now," he said. "I know my mom is ready for me to decide, and I am, too, but I'm still working on it."

Duke, N.C. State, Baylor, Kentucky, Miami, Florida, Kansas and Memphis remain on his list.

"I'm still at eight schools," Wall said. "There is no leader."

El_Diablo
05-01-2009, 03:16 PM
John Wall is supposed to narrow his list from 8 today (which does not currently include UNC) of which there is no leader. Then he added one more so he will narrow it from 9. But since he has not visited NCCU- will it be on the list? I honestly don't expect a list today. Even John's Mom is getting tired of this indecision. From the N&O

"It is a really tough decision right now," he said. "I know my mom is ready for me to decide, and I am, too, but I'm still working on it."

Duke, N.C. State, Baylor, Kentucky, Miami, Florida, Kansas and Memphis remain on his list.

"I'm still at eight schools," Wall said. "There is no leader."

One of the articles linked earlier had him saying that he will likely not narrow it down until Monday now.

dukelifer
05-01-2009, 03:27 PM
One of the articles linked earlier had him saying that he will likely not narrow it down until Monday now.

Those weekends are great for working on it.

KyDevilinIL
05-01-2009, 03:43 PM
Today's Wall update is the last straw for me. Honestly, this is ridiculous, and I'm totally indifferent as to whether he picks Duke or not. I feel stupid for having contributed to this thread over recent weeks, thereby contributing to the Wall circus as a whole.

Azdukefan
05-01-2009, 04:10 PM
First of all let me preface with saying this is my first post. However, I had to register because I could not continue to look at this thread and not give my two cents. Honestly, this recruitment is consuming my life (it took on a life its own for me after Gerald bolted) but I am happy to say that I think we are making progress in terms of recruiting. An earlier poster talked about the 1999 team which consisted of many early entries and the 2004 which had Deng on it and we have not seen the likes of these teams since. We have shied (sp?) away from the typical one and dones at the expense of hoping senior classes would pay off every four years when the reality is, a full core of seniors does not really happen anymore (see: Gerald Henderson taking the money and running). Coach had to take this gamble and it will open the eyes of future recruits not planning on putting in four years.

I for one believe we need to remain dilligent with this recruitment as it truly is the key to next year's success. Again I do not have any insider information but believe as long as we do not throw the towel in, Wall will be heading to Durham and we will be headed back to the final four for the first time since 2004. This thread will continue to grow and I will not sleep but in the end it will be worth it!

yancem
05-01-2009, 04:36 PM
I hope he goes to NCCU (not that I wouldn't like to see him go to Duke). For a HBCU in only its second year in Division I, that isn't even in a conference yet, to land such a recruit would be huge for them. They would go from being relatively unknown to being on TV regularly. It would be fun to watch.

This is a nice notion and Wall committing to NCCU would made for a compelling story but in the end, I'm not all that sure that, even with Wall, NCCU would get many of their games televised. With Wall on the team they certainly get a lot of publicity but they had a terrible record last year and even with Wall's talent, I don't see them being drastically improved. Also, a significant number of their games are going to be against either teams that will greatly out match them or against also lower level DI and DII teams which won't make for very entertaining basketball. I do think that they would get at least a few games region broadcast regionally which would be great exposure for NCCU. I just wouldn't expect to turn on espn on every week to see them play.

chrisheery
05-01-2009, 07:20 PM
This is an absolute show. I am worried that UM seems to have gained ground however.

Really? I honestly believe, based on only reading that article, that this story is a fabrication created by the Miami publicity machine to make them sound like they have a chance. Clearly, Wall was going to say that he had a good time and is "considering" the school. That's just common courtesy. But everything else in the article is conjecture and is clearly just an attempt by the author, who probably went to or has a friend that works at Miami, to make it sound like Wall is down to UK and Miami. He can do that because he probably thinks its a safe bet Wall will end up at UK and no one will ever be the wiser that Miami wasn't really a serious consideration.

Regardless, I agree that this is silly, but while reading this, I just realized that I don't think I decided where to go to school until about this time of year my senior year of high school. I waffled between Duke and a school I thought was also fantastic right up until the last day I had to decide. I even drove to Duke one weekend and then the other school (600 miles away) right before deciding to try to get a better feel. Maybe we should give a kid a break and not assume he is just messing with us. (Though it feels like he is sometimes).

Indoor66
05-01-2009, 08:54 PM
He said he was interested in looking at an HBCU - NCCU has a better academic and athletic reputation than Shaw.

What is an HBCU?

hedgehog
05-01-2009, 09:01 PM
What is an HBCU?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=hbcu

Kishiznit
05-01-2009, 10:49 PM
I prefer the early commit recruits. This is ludicrous.

Let's go hard after Bledsoe.

Or....let's get a 3 star guard that can give us 6-10 minutes a game.

umdukie
05-02-2009, 02:54 AM
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/may/01/tigers-hope-bledsoe-gets-point/

''Bledsoe confirmed Memphis and Kentucky are the only schools is he considering. 'That's who I'm deciding between,' he said. 'I'm going to try to make (a decision) next week.'"

If Memphis gets Bledsoe, Kentucky gets Wall and we get nobody, I might actually cry.

If this happens, I don't believe we are any longer an "elite" program and I don't believe Coach K is on the same level as a recruiter as Cal and Roy.

It's especially sad because if we had just offered Bledsoe a while back, he would have definitely accepted because of his love of Duke.

Come on K, please please work the magic.

ice-9
05-02-2009, 05:28 AM
Wow, you gotta relax!

If you recall, it was only a couple weeks ago that Bledsoe identified Florida as his leader. Kids obviously change their minds...a lot! Plus if Bledsoe ends up at Kentucky that would be really, really good news for us.

Finally...if Bledsoe doesn't have the grades or the scores to cut it at Duke, do we really want him? I'm proud of Duke basketball, but I'm even more proud of Duke's academic standing.

sagegrouse
05-02-2009, 07:45 AM
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/may/01/tigers-hope-bledsoe-gets-point/

''Bledsoe confirmed Memphis and Kentucky are the only schools is he considering. 'That's who I'm deciding between,' he said. 'I'm going to try to make (a decision) next week.'"

If Memphis gets Bledsoe, Kentucky gets Wall and we get nobody, I might actually cry.

If this happens, I don't believe we are any longer an "elite" program and I don't believe Coach K is on the same level as a recruiter as Cal and Roy.

It's especially sad because if we had just offered Bledsoe a while back, he would have definitely accepted because of his love of Duke.

Come on K, please please work the magic.

I dunno, umdukie. Have you considered decaf?

sagegrouse

whereinthehellami
05-02-2009, 08:10 AM
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/may/01/tigers-hope-bledsoe-gets-point/

''Bledsoe confirmed Memphis and Kentucky are the only schools is he considering. 'That's who I'm deciding between,' he said. 'I'm going to try to make (a decision) next week.'"

If Memphis gets Bledsoe, Kentucky gets Wall and we get nobody, I might actually cry.

If this happens, I don't believe we are any longer an "elite" program and I don't believe Coach K is on the same level as a recruiter as Cal and Roy.

It's especially sad because if we had just offered Bledsoe a while back, he would have definitely accepted because of his love of Duke.

Come on K, please please work the magic.

is this a parody poster?

NYDukie
05-02-2009, 08:13 AM
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/may/01/tigers-hope-bledsoe-gets-point/

''Bledsoe confirmed Memphis and Kentucky are the only schools is he considering. 'That's who I'm deciding between,' he said. 'I'm going to try to make (a decision) next week.'"

If Memphis gets Bledsoe, Kentucky gets Wall and we get nobody, I might actually cry.

If this happens, I don't believe we are any longer an "elite" program and I don't believe Coach K is on the same level as a recruiter as Cal and Roy.

It's especially sad because if we had just offered Bledsoe a while back, he would have definitely accepted because of his love of Duke.

Come on K, please please work the magic.

I'm not privy to the inner workings of Duke basketball or the admissions department but it may not be as easy as just offering a scholarship to either Bledsoe or Wall due their current academic standings. Just like many here, I would love either one to come to Duke but there may be some who are higher on the food chain that make the final ultimate decisions, rather than Coach K, regarding admissions much to the chagrin of some.

quickgtp
05-02-2009, 08:46 AM
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/may/01/tigers-hope-bledsoe-gets-point/

''Bledsoe confirmed Memphis and Kentucky are the only schools is he considering. 'That's who I'm deciding between,' he said. 'I'm going to try to make (a decision) next week.'"

If Memphis gets Bledsoe, Kentucky gets Wall and we get nobody, I might actually cry.

If this happens, I don't believe we are any longer an "elite" program and I don't believe Coach K is on the same level as a recruiter as Cal and Roy.

It's especially sad because if we had just offered Bledsoe a while back, he would have definitely accepted because of his love of Duke.

Come on K, please please work the magic.

While there is a bit of panic in this post, I have to say that you are pretty accurate in the fact that if we lose out on Bledsoe (if he qualifies) and Wall then yes, K is losing his recruiting touch/magic/drive......whatever you want to call it.

I do not think some of you realize how much trouble this team would be in next year with 3 guards and NO PG. Not only that, but we will have one truly athletic player. Sure, winning the ACC title would be nice, but come tourney time we would get smacked again by another athletic team. I know a few of you won't like my post, but hey, I am just being realistic. If having good grades and being a prestigious school year in and year out is enough for you then so be it. I thought the ultimate goal in college b-ball was to win the NCAA's, or at least be a legit contender.

kramerbr
05-02-2009, 09:28 AM
While there is a bit of panic in this post, I have to say that you are pretty accurate in the fact that if we lose out on Bledsoe (if he qualifies) and Wall then yes, K is losing his recruiting touch/magic/drive......whatever you want to call it.

I do not think some of you realize how much trouble this team would be in next year with 3 guards and NO PG. Not only that, but we will have one truly athletic player. Sure, winning the ACC title would be nice, but come tourney time we would get smacked again by another athletic team. I know a few of you won't like my post, but hey, I am just being realistic. If having good grades and being a prestigious school year in and year out is enough for you then so be it. I thought the ultimate goal in college b-ball was to win the NCAA's, or at least be a legit contender.

Exactly the reason why premium sites are very very nice...

Houston
05-02-2009, 09:42 AM
While there is a bit of panic in this post, I have to say that you are pretty accurate in the fact that if we lose out on Bledsoe (if he qualifies) and Wall then yes, K is losing his recruiting touch/magic/drive......whatever you want to call it.

I do not think some of you realize how much trouble this team would be in next year with 3 guards and NO PG. Not only that, but we will have one truly athletic player. Sure, winning the ACC title would be nice, but come tourney time we would get smacked again by another athletic team. I know a few of you won't like my post, but hey, I am just being realistic. If having good grades and being a prestigious school year in and year out is enough for you then so be it. I thought the ultimate goal in college b-ball was to win the NCAA's, or at least be a legit contender.


Duke has been a dominant basketball program in the past w/o sacrificing academics and will do so in the future. Duke is in a transition. I believe coach and staff are adjusting their recruiting to adjust to today's environment. Unfortunately, this will not occur overnight. Things will start to get very exciting with the 2010 class.

If Wall comes that's a bonus. If he does not, the program will still be very strong. Coach is addressing the weaknesses.

DukieBoy
05-02-2009, 09:51 AM
The recruitment of John Wall and Eric Bledsoe has now led into a discussion of whether Duke is an elite program.

Will you two just commit somewhere already?!?!?! :mad:

NSDukeFan
05-02-2009, 10:04 AM
While there is a bit of panic in this post, I have to say that you are pretty accurate in the fact that if we lose out on Bledsoe (if he qualifies) and Wall then yes, K is losing his recruiting touch/magic/drive......whatever you want to call it.
http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=886970 and then add Seth Curry, with the potential for other(s)


I do not think some of you realize how much trouble this team would be in next year with 3 guards and NO PG. Not only that, but we will have one truly athletic player. Sure, winning the ACC title would be nice, but come tourney time we would get smacked again by another athletic team.
I am not at all worried about Duke basketball next year, even if we don't have any additions to the team. Yes, yes, yes, it would be great to have a great point guard and Kareem, Wilt, or Russell (probably even now for Russell and Kareem:)) at center. However, one of the things that makes basketball such a fun sport to watch, is that there are many ways to have a successful team and I look forward to seeing how K uses the many talented parts he has in place for next year, even if we don't get John Stockton, Isaiah Thomas or John Wall to come to Duke.

I know a few of you won't like my post, but hey, I am just being realistic. If having good grades and being a prestigious school year in and year out is enough for you then so be it. I thought the ultimate goal in college b-ball was to win the NCAA's, or at least be a legit contender.

I wouldn't say I don't like your post, just that I don't at all agree with it. The ultimate goal in college b-ball was and is to win the national championship, which one team does each year. The ultimate goal for a university's basketball program such as Duke may not necessarily be to do whatever it takes to try to win this title, without worrying about the integrity and ethics of the university.

gumbomoop
05-02-2009, 10:14 AM
If we lose out on Bledsoe (if he qualifies) and Wall then yes, K is losing his recruiting touch/magic/drive......whatever you want to call it.

I do not think some of you realize how much trouble this team would be in next year with 3 guards and NO PG. Not only that, but we will have one truly athletic player. Sure, winning the ACC title would be nice, but come tourney time we would get smacked again by another athletic team. I know a few of you won't like my post, but hey, I am just being realistic. If having good grades and being a prestigious school year in and year out is enough for you then so be it. I thought the ultimate goal in college b-ball was to win the NCAA's, or at least be a legit contender.


Here's why I mostly disagree with you:

(1) "one truly athletic player" - Nolan is also very athletic, when not passive; so I think it's not his athleticism that we should worry about, but his attitude and confidence. I've posted before that he, along with obviously athletic EWill, must become relentlessly fearless. I view their attitude adjustment as key to '09-'10. Nolan must play like his mentors: Johnny Dawkins and Derek Smith.

(2) "realistic" - Maybe, but neither pessimism nor optimism = realism. Take K, for instance, who said [Wed night, I think] on Tavis Smiley's show, "We'll be top 10 preseason next year." Now, perhaps he said that with confidence that we'd have G or Wall or Bledsoe; hard to say. But I think, realistically, and looking at the paucity of clearly dominant teams next year - compared to Oct. '08 on-paper look of UNC, UConn, and Pitt [talent and experience] - that we're easily top 10, more likely top 7 [with Kansas, Mich St, Texas, 'Nova, UK-if-Wall, UNC].

(3) "legit contender" - Now, you may well vociferously [and pessimistically?] say, no way are we preseason top 10; but I don't think K was being overconfident at all. Certainly I'd prefer to be G and/or Wall-included top 2 [with Kansas], but top-10 is surely a "legit contender" if there are no clearly dominant teams going in. Only Kansas marginally qualifies as potentially [= on-paper] dominant, and even they aren't anywhere near UNC/UConn/Pitt likely-dominant.

(4) I do not disagree with your sensible concern about our lack of depth in backcourt, but I am optimistically, and perhaps to you foolishly, confident that Singler's 3-pt [I]and passing /I] skills will be regularly displayed when he switches, as he must, perhaps 12-15 mpg, to the 3-spot.

(5) Imo, your surest point concerns our PG. I can only admit that I'm optimistic that both Nolan and EWill will improve dramatically this year, by which I mean that Nolan becomes a steady PG, backed for 8-10 mpg by Scheyer or EWill.

(6) I have no answer whatsoever for the possible catastrophe of a serious injury to any of our 3 backcourt fellows. We'd obviously have to go big, and I've no clue how far we'd go then.

(7) K's recruiting - (a) Well, if MP1 doesn't develop into a very good, and if MP2 and Kelly don't become excellent, player(s) during their 3-4 years at Duke, this suggests that K or Wojo aren't great coaches, but it's no comment on K's recruitment. (b) If K fails to land any of these players - Wall, Barnes, Knight, Irving - I'd sure be disappointed, but probably only temporarily.

(8) In response to another poster, and in the aftermath of our post-'Nova kvetching, I admitted to feeling "entitled" to making the Final 4 every 4-5 years. But in the intervening weeks, other posters have noted that the period [1986-94] when Duke made 7 of 9 Final 4s, played for the NC 5 times, won twice - all that is no more. I'm confident we'll play again for the NC in the next several years, say, well before the DOW reaches again its historic high and before all American troops have departed Iraq and Afghanistan…….

moonpie23
05-02-2009, 10:48 AM
question: other than taking part in an actual GAME.....are there any restrictions on Seth Curry with regard to how much he can be a part of the "team"? i'm excited at the prospect of him being able to take advantage of a year as a "non-playing" member of Duke BB team...


just curious..

A-Tex Devil
05-02-2009, 10:52 AM
I wish recruiting was more like dating. I've found that in dating, if you like the other person, but they are wishy-washy and not sure whether they want to commit because there are other fish in the sea, then walk. If they wise up and come back fully committed, great, if they don't fine. But at least we aren't begging.

John Wall, we'd like you to commit. But if you are going to drag this on for another month, call us when you make a decision. We've got things to do, pepole to meet, places to go.

Truth
05-02-2009, 11:18 AM
John Wall doesn't have time to read this thread... nobody does.

PS- From now on I will only refer to this thread as "The Behemoth"

John Wall doesn't have time to read The Behemoth... nobody does.

In fact, I am starting a campaign to re-name this thread "John Wall Recruitment- The Behemoth"... JOIN ME FELLOW POSTERS!!

Personally, I am of the mindset that if you haven't actually read the entire thread, then you shouldn't post in it. Obviously, exceptions exist (some writers have good information that can/should be shared, but for most of us, we're just theorizing with on others posts or giving our feelings in general), but if you "don't have time" (or more accurately, the inclination), then you should really question whether "you have the time" to actually add value to the thread.

BlueintheFace
05-02-2009, 11:36 AM
All of the twists and turns and absurdities of this recruitment have, oddly enough, made me less interested in the recruitment. In my head, our team is now set for next year.

I wipe my hands of you John Wall, you and your stupid thread. I'll be back when you make a decision.

houstondukie
05-02-2009, 12:21 PM
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/may/01/tigers-hope-bledsoe-gets-point/

''Bledsoe confirmed Memphis and Kentucky are the only schools is he considering. 'That's who I'm deciding between,' he said. 'I'm going to try to make (a decision) next week.'"

If Memphis gets Bledsoe, Kentucky gets Wall and we get nobody, I might actually cry.

If this happens, I don't believe we are any longer an "elite" program and I don't believe Coach K is on the same level as a recruiter as Cal and Roy.

It's especially sad because if we had just offered Bledsoe a while back, he would have definitely accepted because of his love of Duke.

Come on K, please please work the magic.

Oh, please. Cry me a river.

I am so sick and tired of hearing this crap about Duke falling off in recruiting. We have two top 20 players coming in this year (Plumnee, Kelly). Andre Dawkins is another consensus top 20 player. We are in great shape with Harrision Barnes, the number 1 player in the country. And I haven't even mentioned Seth Curry, Joshua Hairston, or Tyler Thornton.

You sound like such a spoiled brat.

watzone
05-02-2009, 12:27 PM
The one thing I have learned over the years while covering recruiting is that you cannot hang on every word a prospect says. Common sense needs to be applied when deciphering what Wall says. Take NCCU for instance. Why would he go anywhere the day before his SAT? I am assuming that those here know he is taking the SAT today?:) Anyhow, I am guilty of not reading too far down in the thread so I am assuming that is out there by now. If not, zagsblog made sure it was today.

houstondukie
05-02-2009, 12:30 PM
I wish recruiting was more like dating. I've found that in dating, if you like the other person, but they are wishy-washy and not sure whether they want to commit because there are other fish in the sea, then walk. If they wise up and come back fully committed, great, if they don't fine. But at least we aren't begging.

John Wall, we'd like you to commit. But if you are going to drag this on for another month, call us when you make a decision. We've got things to do, pepole to meet, places to go.

I agree with my fellow Texan.

There was a time when I wanted John Wall so badly it was sickening (I have subscriptions to both Rivals and Scout and was constantly checking for updates). Now I couldn't care less where he decides to go, if he ever does make a decision. I am starting to resent him anyway, and kinda wish he would go somewhere else.

I know next year will be a struggle with only 3 guards. In fact, I started a post at the beginning of this past season, and was shot down by everyone on this board. No one else seemed concerned. Now that it could be a reality, it should be a concern.

But I say we take our chances with Singler at SF and going big with Lance Thomas and Mason Plumnee. We would finally be a great rebounding team with size. Even if we don't go very far in the tourney, we will be loaded in 2010-2011, if Singler stays and Barnes comes to Duke (both very possible).

Be patient folks. Duke will be back.

cspan37421
05-02-2009, 12:55 PM
Personally, I am of the mindset that if you haven't actually read the entire thread, then you shouldn't post in it. Obviously, exceptions exist (some writers have good information that can/should be shared, but for most of us, we're just theorizing with on others posts or giving our feelings in general), but if you "don't have time" (or more accurately, the inclination), then you should really question whether "you have the time" to actually add value to the thread.

That's a pretty high bar - this thread is 93 pages and counting. Have you contributed to the "The Longest Thread Ever"?

Personally, I'll let the mods decide. At PG, we'd all love the next Bobby Hurley or JWill to walk through that door. If - and let me emphasize IF - instead we're falling all over ourselves to land a showboating one-and-done player replete with handlers from a diploma mill (referencing 1st page of thread), that sure doesn't sound like a Duke player to me. How would we then be any different from any other school?

Edouble
05-02-2009, 01:21 PM
Personally, I am of the mindset that if you haven't actually read the entire thread, then you shouldn't post in it. Obviously, exceptions exist (some writers have good information that can/should be shared, but for most of us, we're just theorizing with on others posts or giving our feelings in general), but if you "don't have time" (or more accurately, the inclination), then you should really question whether "you have the time" to actually add value to the thread.

I don't know. I actually have read the whole thread, but if someone were to want to get on board now, it would be pretty time consuming to go back and read the whole thing from start to finish.


I do not think some of you realize how much trouble this team would be in next year with 3 guards and NO PG. Not only that, but we will have one truly athletic player. Sure, winning the ACC title would be nice, but come tourney time we would get smacked again by another athletic team. I know a few of you won't like my post, but hey, I am just being realistic. If having good grades and being a prestigious school year in and year out is enough for you then so be it. I thought the ultimate goal in college b-ball was to win the NCAA's, or at least be a legit contender.

We could debate all day about athleticism, I suppose. I think Nolan, and for his size, Singler, are very athletic. I'm really less concerned with getting smacked around, and more concerned with being incredibly dull. If Nolan can't become a mean point guard for us and we miss on Wall, I have a bad image of us really grinding it out next year: Jon bringing the ball into the half court, Singler and Kelly bombing threes all day long. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather play like Wisconsin and win than play like old school Loyola-Mrymt. and lose (I guess), but we might have problems looking like the Duke team that likes to "push it", as was described in a recently linked Blue Planet video without an improved Nolan or Wall.

Singler and Jon have excellent vision, but it would be nice to run sometimes. I think it leads to easy points, which is always nice, plus I'm sure that it helps recruiting.

johnb
05-02-2009, 01:40 PM
I wipe my hands of you John Wall, you and your stupid thread. I'll be back when you make a decision.

I assume this was tongue in cheek. Surely Wall isn't posting here regularly.

There are so many possibilities for his delay that our frustration says more about us than about him.

As for our goals for the future: It would be nice to be the overwhelming #1 team in the country (though even I got a little bored watching Brand and Co destroy solid teams throughout the regular season), but how about being top 10 every year with guys who are enthusiastic about being at Duke. If one or two of our McD's A-A's ends up being a POY candidate in a particular year, them we increase our shot at being in the final four, which is a nice bonus, but even that is no guarantee (see JJ and Shelden as an example).

As for whether our guys are athletic and tough: I have seen very few of our players who weren't athletic and none whom I'd label soft.

As for K's "magic": the list of players over the past 25 years who have gone elsewhere after putting us in the final 2 or 3 would make one heck of a team. We get a hugely disproportionate percentage of upper-middle-class high school All Americans (which is likely a small number), but we still don't get them all. As for inner city players, there is something to be said about going to a big state university where there might be more academic flexibility and (perhaps more importantly) more of a comfortable social scene. We still do better than most schools, but if a great player picks a school very different from Duke, I don't hold it against them. When a great player picks Georgetown, Stanford, Vandy, Northwestern, etc, I do wonder a bit more about why they wouldn't come to Duke, but it's fairly rare for us to lose a great player to anybody from this cluster of schools. If they pick Carolina, I just assume they've had their souls stolen...

watzone
05-02-2009, 10:55 PM
While I understand what Brett Friedlander was implying in the front page link, his research was lacking in many ways. UNC? Anyhow, I have seen it stated that fans in the Triangle are fed up. In my opinion, there are two reasons for the angst. For Duke fans, it's the waiting game(s) But for NCSU and UNC fans, well, they are not exactly in the running like Duke is supposed to be. Of course, anything can happen in recruiting. Lots and lost of rumors surrounding this one and lots and lots of opinions:)

Duke #33
05-03-2009, 02:44 AM
From the link on the home page, it says that from talking to Wall, he seems like he is very close to deciding where he will go to college. That is good news as it seemed like he would never choose and keep adding schools to his list.

fogey
05-03-2009, 07:53 AM
From the link on the home page, it says that from talking to Wall, he seems like he is very close to deciding where he will go to college. That is good news as it seemed like he would never choose and keep adding schools to his list.
Please, for the love of God, not before post #2000!

NYDukie
05-03-2009, 10:07 AM
Please, for the love of God, not before post #2000!

Hey, it could be a lot worse. Take the Lance Stephenson article link on the homepage. At least Wall seems not to be the prima donna Stephenson and is wanted, while some teams are distancing themselves from Stephenson a bit as if you read in between the lines that St. John's may be glad he cut them from the list and Calipari of all people doesn't want him. And Stephenson is a top 10 recruit to boot.

roywhite
05-03-2009, 10:26 AM
Hey, it could be a lot worse. Take the Lance Stephenson article link on the homepage. At least Wall seems not to be the prima donna Stephenson and is wanted, while some teams are distancing themselves from Stephenson a bit as if you read in between the lines that St. John's may be glad he cut them from the list and Calipari of all people doesn't want him. And Stephenson is a top 10 recruit to boot.

Stephenson is not the only top 10 recruit who will be a challenge to coach. Just watching Ricardo Sidney and Cousins play can be frustrating; while they have ability, they don't seem to play hard, are not in great shape, and lack in some fundamentals. I don't include John Wall on this list at all.

I'm wondering whether the prima donna effect is a symptom of the times, or just a notable feature of the 2009 class.

quickgtp
05-03-2009, 10:54 AM
Exactly the reason why premium sites are very very nice...

Kramer, I am a member of 2 premium sites so your comment here is, IMO, pointless. My argument is valid until we land a PG, and at this point it hasn't happened. While I value what those sites say, it means nothing until the recruit actually commits (see Patterson, Monroe, Boynton, etc.)

quickgtp
05-03-2009, 10:58 AM
I don't know. I actually have read the whole thread, but if someone were to want to get on board now, it would be pretty time consuming to go back and read the whole thing from start to finish.



We could debate all day about athleticism, I suppose. I think Nolan, and for his size, Singler, are very athletic. I'm really less concerned with getting smacked around, and more concerned with being incredibly dull. If Nolan can't become a mean point guard for us and we miss on Wall, I have a bad image of us really grinding it out next year: Jon bringing the ball into the half court, Singler and Kelly bombing threes all day long. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather play like Wisconsin and win than play like old school Loyola-Mrymt. and lose (I guess), but we might have problems looking like the Duke team that likes to "push it", as was described in a recently linked Blue Planet video without an improved Nolan or Wall.

Singler and Jon have excellent vision, but it would be nice to run sometimes. I think it leads to easy points, which is always nice, plus I'm sure that it helps recruiting.


Edouble, you are right, we could debate athleticism all day. Smith is somewhat athletic, but when I compare him to the other top 20 teams from last year I would say he is average athletically, IMO. Singler? Let's just say I disagree with you believing he is athletic, again IMO. I do not see him playing the 3 on the defensive end. I hope we keep him at the 4.

quickgtp
05-03-2009, 11:03 AM
http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=886970 and then add Seth Curry, with the potential for other(s)

I am not at all worried about Duke basketball next year, even if we don't have any additions to the team. Yes, yes, yes, it would be great to have a great point guard and Kareem, Wilt, or Russell (probably even now for Russell and Kareem:)) at center. However, one of the things that makes basketball such a fun sport to watch, is that there are many ways to have a successful team and I look forward to seeing how K uses the many talented parts he has in place for next year, even if we don't get John Stockton, Isaiah Thomas or John Wall to come to Duke.


I wouldn't say I don't like your post, just that I don't at all agree with it. The ultimate goal in college b-ball was and is to win the national championship, which one team does each year. The ultimate goal for a university's basketball program such as Duke may not necessarily be to do whatever it takes to try to win this title, without worrying about the integrity and ethics of the university.

Your recruiting thinking speaks of "potential for other(s)." That's exactly my point. Sure there is potential, but we have missed out the past few years, and if we miss out on a PG for next year, IMO we are in trouble. Will we have a good year? Sure, K is a darn good coach (sorry for the Roy-type talk) but his options will be limited in certain key areas, more so than the other top 10 teams or so. I know that only one team cuts the nets down, but we should at least be competitive and considered one of the top 4 or 8. We have not been the last 3 years and next year will be the same until we sure up the weak spots. I know I sound negative, but this is just realism. Will I support Duke basketball either way? Of course I will! It's just frustrating going through this recruiting period.

DDB4208
05-03-2009, 12:02 PM
Can someone please clear this up for me?

How can Kentucky have room for Beldsoe and Wall?
How can Miami have room for Wall?

Kentucky has 14 scholarship players coming back. That is not including Patterson or Meeks. And Jodie Meeks probably will return because he is a second round pick.

Miami has 12 scholarship players coming back at the moment but Dwayne Collins is also likely to return which would make it 13 scholarships.

How can Miami and Kentucky recruit Wall if they can't guarantee a spot on the roster? Are they just hoping one of their players transfers?

Kedsy
05-03-2009, 12:11 PM
Can someone please clear this up for me?

How can Kentucky have room for Beldsoe and Wall?
How can Miami have room for Wall?

Kentucky has 14 scholarship players coming back. That is not including Patterson or Meeks. And Jodie Meeks probably will return because he is a second round pick.

Miami has 12 scholarship players coming back at the moment but Dwayne Collins is also likely to return which would make it 13 scholarships.

How can Miami and Kentucky recruit Wall if they can't guarantee a spot on the roster? Are they just hoping one of their players transfers?

This has been explained ad nauseam on this thread. Scholarships are only promised on a year-to-year basis and are renewed every year, but the school is not required to renew them. Kentucky or Miami can simply not renew the scholarship of one (or more) of the other players on the team.

gumbomoop
05-03-2009, 12:49 PM
Hey, it could be a lot worse. Take the Lance Stephenson article link on the homepage. At least Wall seems not to be the prima donna Stephenson and is wanted, while some teams are distancing themselves from Stephenson a bit as if you read in between the lines that St. John's may be glad he cut them from the list and Calipari of all people doesn't want him. And Stephenson is a top 10 recruit to boot.

Having made, in a recent post, a contrast between the on-court demeanor of Wall and Stephenson, I second NYDukie's point [and roywhite's, too]. I've referred to the Wall saga as near-hilarious, which is rather kinder than a few references from other posters.

Yet the Tim Stevens profile of Wall should bring all of us up just a bit short: how could one not be at least slightly charmed by Wall's "I'm just a kid"? Or his befuddled -not at all big-headed- responses to various ill-informed rumors?

With Stephenson, one finds numerous "read-between-the-lines" red flags; with Wall, I haven't seen 'em. And what I saw in all-star games, limited to be sure, was Wall-positive, Stephenson..... uh, not so much.

John Wall doesn't appear to be leading people on. Rather, he appears to be agonizing over a complicated decision, one not fairly described as "C'mon Wall, cut the crap." I trust we'll be unanimous in welcoming him if and when he decides to enroll at Duke, and nearly so in wishing him a wonderful time elsewhere, except if and when he's on the court as an opponent.

Let's hope John Wall celebrates a sweet Mother's Day a week from now. Hard to believe, perhaps, but right now that's a more important day for him than..... other things.

NYDukie
05-03-2009, 03:58 PM
With Stephenson, one finds numerous "read-between-the-lines" red flags; with Wall, I haven't seen 'em. And what I saw in all-star games, limited to be sure, was Wall-positive, Stephenson..... uh, not so much.


If you recall, I believe last summer, there were tryouts for one of the junior national teams that Kelly was on and coached by McKillop in which Stephson was cut from b/c of his "there is not I in team" approach. Here you had a team with players of similar ability and he was trying to put himself ahead of the team. This was not an all-star game but a respected tourney to maintain or improve the U.S's rep. You can take another step further and read up on some of articles up here in the NYC area where I live and you get the feeling the Stephenson situation is very similar to that of Marbury and Telfair as they all grew up in the same Coney Island neighborhood, played for the same H.S., not sure if they all played for the same coach but all appeared to be treated in a "god" like manner in which the enabled them to feel entitled to certain basketball related matters. I know the NYC player reputation has lost a bit of its luster, but the way the above noted players carried themselves and contributed to the prima donna persona has done nothing to help such NYC area products the past few years as Levance Fields, Kemba Walker and Sylvan Landesberg (product of my H.S. alma mater) and others. Not to diverge too much more from the Wall thread, but it seems again that Wall appears to not be the extreme head ache that Stephenson may be, or that like Cousins and Sidney. I'm not saying he is "innocent" in all matters but I don't think he's such a problem that he isn't worth the recruiting "effort" that some seem he is. I just think many are a bit jaded by the Monroe and Patterson events that transpired in which we were "possibly" led to believe Duke was the leader coming down the end for a while and then left at the alter and are taking out that frustration on the Wall situation which is pretty much very different.

Devilsfan
05-03-2009, 04:28 PM
Hats off to Mr. Wall. This is a major decission in his young life and he wants to make sure he chooses what's best for him. I hope it's Duke. I hope he believes he is capable of handling the rigors of a top ten basketball and ACADEMIC institution. So often coaches will do almost anything to get the best recruits, never thinking of what's best for the player. The coaches' income is dependent on the recruits ability on the court or the field. Many colleges will go after a kid hard telling them how much they love him until they get someone ranked higher on their board. Seems like Mr. Wall is not falling for the bait. I believe Coach K may be the only coach to tell him the straight out truth. Let's hope playing for the best coach at the best school is enough for him.

NSDukeFan
05-03-2009, 08:31 PM
Your recruiting thinking speaks of "potential for other(s)." That's exactly my point. Sure there is potential, but we have missed out the past few years, and if we miss out on a PG for next year, IMO we are in trouble. Will we have a good year? Sure, K is a darn good coach (sorry for the Roy-type talk) but his options will be limited in certain key areas, more so than the other top 10 teams or so. I know that only one team cuts the nets down, but we should at least be competitive and considered one of the top 4 or 8. We have not been the last 3 years and next year will be the same until we sure up the weak spots. I know I sound negative, but this is just realism. Will I support Duke basketball either way? Of course I will! It's just frustrating going through this recruiting period.

I agree that it is frustrating going through this recruiting period, but think that even without the potential, we have a very good class already signed up for 2010, so I just thought your comment that "K is losing his recruiting touch/magic/drive......whatever you want to call it" was a bit harsh.

You are right that we have not been considered one of the top 4 or 8 teams at the end of each of the last 3 years, but we have been at some point each of those years and have been pretty close, with some disappointments in the tournament. Unlike some posters, I don't feel the NCAA tournament is the be-all and end-all for a season's success, though do agree it is very important. I don't think I disagree much with you, just that you seem a bit prone to exaggeration on the pessimistic side and maybe I am a bit on the optimistic side.

jatotown
05-03-2009, 11:32 PM
This has been explained ad nauseam on this thread. Scholarships are only promised on a year-to-year basis and are renewed every year, but the school is not required to renew them. Kentucky or Miami can simply not renew the scholarship of one (or more) of the other players on the team.

But that's only the technical answer. The real issue underlying DDB4's question is an ethical one. If a player is offered a scholarship, there's always been an implied promise that so long as the player does what he's supposed to, i.e., not get into trouble with the law or the school, go to class, take the required courses, get the required GPA, show up for practices, work as hard as he can on the court, that he is there for the full ride.

If in coach ______________'s* scheme of things, this implied promise is also conditioned on something else: say, if a better player is recruited and the scholly is needed to sign that better player, so the scholly for the lesser player is yanked, there is an ethical issue, if not a legal one.

What kind of college system does this if these players are truly student athletes? If the purpose of the scholarship is to educate the student given it?

Of course, it never really comes down to this. Strings are pulled, options are given to the lesser player, and all gets smoothed over. The curtain isn't pulled back to reveal the hypocritical machinery and everyone who benefits pretends that's it's all ok, and the NCAA makes it a point to use the phrase "student-athlete" ad nauseum during the tournament, as if by saying the phrase often enough it makes it real.

Where in the heck is Toto when you need him.


*fill in the blank

yancem
05-03-2009, 11:41 PM
But that's only the technical answer. The real issue underlying DDB4's question is an ethical one. If a player is offered a scholarship, there's always been an implied promise that so long as the player does what he's supposed to, i.e., not get into trouble with the law or the school, go to class, take the required courses, get the required GPA, show up for practices, work as hard as he can on the court, that he is there for the full ride.

If in coach ______________'s* scheme of things, this implied promise is also conditioned on something else: say, if a better player is recruited and the scholly is needed to sign that better player, so the scholly for the lesser player is yanked, there is an ethical issue, if not a legal one.

What kind of college system does this if these players are truly student athletes? If the purpose of the scholarship is to educate the student given it?

Of course, it never really comes down to this. Strings are pulled, options are given to the lesser player, and all gets smoothed over. The curtain isn't pulled back to reveal the hypocritical machinery and everyone who benefits pretends that's it's all ok, and the NCAA makes it a point to use the phrase "student-athlete" ad nauseum during the tournament, as if by saying the phrase often enough it makes it real.

Where in the heck is Toto when you need him.


*fill in the blank

There is also a time issue that needs to be considered. The university has to make a decision about renewing the scholarship at some point. I'm not sure what that date is but I know that there is a deadline for making the decision as to extend the scholarship or to rescind it. They have to give the player enough time to figure out how they are going to cover their tuition.

ChicagoCrazy84
05-03-2009, 11:51 PM
Looks like it will be at least another week before we hear anything further on Mr. Wall according to Rivals. I have nothing against John Wall and this process. I don't think it is anything like the Bryce Brown saga that the NCAA Football world went through a couple months ago. I do find it interesting that it has been such a long process for someone that could possibly only be in school for a year. You would think that someone in his position would just pick a school that seems like a good fit and get it over with. One could argue that this process is a positive because he is not just randomly making a decision without any consideration. This is perceived to be such a negative, mainly because we are in such need of his services. Everyday, Duke fans are looking for updates, but everyday the updates are the same: "Wall to wait until next week to trim list.
I have not agreed with Coach K and his staff this season with their recruiting approach mainly because they threw all their eggs in one basket even though Coach K publicly admitted, "We need a point." I would've been very happy if we landed a Darius Smith (now with UCONN) or gone after Bledsoe a little more, but they didn't seriously consider either of them. Now, if we land Wall, all will be forgotten and Durham will be rocking once again, however in the event we don't, the consequences could be bigger than everyone thinks. I will always have faith in Coach K, but you have to admit, this move might be a little too risky.

PS- How sick would it be if Gerald Henderson just decided to go talk to John Wall and say, "Dude, come to Duke and I'll come back for my last year and we'll tear up the ACC and win it all."

Ah, one can dream.

ChicagoCrazy84
05-04-2009, 12:01 AM
One additional question I have been wondering. In regards to Kentucky, with Calipari going hard after Wall and Bledsoe, what are the two of them thinking about eachother's decision? Could Bledsoe be waiting to see what Wall does or vice versa? Or could Bledsoe just decide tomorrow, I am going to Kentucky? I believe Calipari has offered, but I could be wrong. It would make sense I guess that Calipari is waiting to see what Wall does before he decides anything with Bledsoe, but with no answer coming soon it seems, it would be hard to imagine Calipari would be so conservative with him cause Bledsoe is a very good player in his own right.

Also, has Coach K and John Wall met again since that one meeting a month or so ago?

Duke #33
05-04-2009, 02:19 AM
One additional question I have been wondering. In regards to Kentucky, with Calipari going hard after Wall and Bledsoe, what are the two of them thinking about eachother's decision? Could Bledsoe be waiting to see what Wall does or vice versa?

I think that if Bledsoe decides to go to Kentucky, that will not effect Walls decision because Wall is the better player who is more ready to play so even if they are both on the same team, Wall will get the minutes because he is better. Now if Wall decided to go to Kentucky and Bledsoe has not decided, I think that it would be unlikely that Bledsoe would also commit to Kentucky knowing that he will all ready be behind Wall and have to compete for serious minutes.

Duke #33
05-04-2009, 02:24 AM
I believe Calipari has offered, but I could be wrong.

Calipari has offered Bledsoe.http://rivalshoops.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?pr_key=63746&Sport=2 Right now, Kentucky is going after both of them(Wall and Bledsoe).http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=942070

DukieBoy
05-04-2009, 07:39 AM
I've asked this once already with the recruiting process, but let me try again. I didn't feel like weeding through the 1800 posts, so is there any time table set for him to make his decision. When I asked this earlier in recruiting, someone said April 19, IIR.

NSDukeFan
05-04-2009, 08:36 AM
I've asked this once already with the recruiting process, but let me try again. I didn't feel like weeding through the 1800 posts, so is there any time table set for him to make his decision. When I asked this earlier in recruiting, someone said April 19, IIR.

I think it is going to be after that.;)

miramar
05-04-2009, 09:35 AM
I've asked this once already with the recruiting process, but let me try again. I didn't feel like weeding through the 1800 posts, so is there any time table set for him to make his decision. When I asked this earlier in recruiting, someone said April 19, IIR.

Why not cinco de mayo? It would allow everyone to celebrate and drown their sorrows at the same time.

UrinalCake
05-04-2009, 09:48 AM
If a player is offered a scholarship, there's [B]always been an implied promise... that he is there for the full ride.

We talked about this a while back on this thread... the issue with pulling scholarships like this is that it affects your recruiting down the road. A potential recruit might think twice about playing for a coach that would recruit over him and then rescind his scholarship solely based on performance.

JasonEvans
05-04-2009, 10:12 AM
I've asked this once already with the recruiting process, but let me try again. I didn't feel like weeding through the 1800 posts, so is there any time table set for him to make his decision. When I asked this earlier in recruiting, someone said April 19, IIR.

You do not have to read through 1800 posts... in just the past 20 or so folks have lamented the fact that Wall seems to be continually moving dates for making decisions.

He is currently listing something like 7 or 8 schools and has said for a few weeks that he plans to cut that list-- though he does not say exactly how much he will cut it. Many so-called "informed experts" seem to feel he will cut to 3 or 4 schools in the next few days.

But actually picking a school and making a commitment, no one has any idea when that will happen. There is some thought it might come very soon and that he might not even bother with the whole "trimming the list" part of things. But I would not trust any kind of timetable or speculation at this point.

I expect us to know by June, simply because Wall is going to want to get on campus somewhere and start working with his future teammates, and that process starts in June at most schools.

--Jason "this whole thing is sorta fun... and it is also sorta torturous" Evans

Vincetaylor
05-04-2009, 10:26 AM
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/5075734/

minns 10
05-04-2009, 10:29 AM
wow, i guess this thread will get over 2,00 posts now!

NCSurfer1
05-04-2009, 10:30 AM
How dumb do you have to be. Maybe we dodged a bullet on this kid!

yancem
05-04-2009, 10:31 AM
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/5075734/

Admittedly this doesn't look good but I would wait until all of the facts come out before rushing to judgment.

marmaduke
05-04-2009, 10:38 AM
I never have felt good about this young man wearing Duke across his chest. We need to tell him "thanks, but no thanks" concerning his involvement with Duke basketball. Next play!

SMO
05-04-2009, 10:54 AM
Admittedly this doesn't look good but I would wait until all of the facts come out before rushing to judgment.

Good point. No forced entry and nothing taken sounds benign, but then why make 3 arrests? Details should be interesting but this surely complicates, if not ends, Duke's recruitment.

RoyalBlue08
05-04-2009, 10:54 AM
I'm thinking of starting a "Please Coack K, end our recruitment of John Wall" Facebook page. Is that any kind of violation?

dukelifer
05-04-2009, 10:58 AM
Admittedly this doesn't look good but I would wait until all of the facts come out before rushing to judgment.

I agree- we should wait until we find out exactly what happened. But I am pretty sure he will not be trimming his list today.

Bluedog
05-04-2009, 10:59 AM
Rumor is that it was a vacant house for sale, and he went in with a girl not to steal anything, but to hang out (or whatever he was going to do with the girl) in an empty house, rather than his own house (yeah, teenagers sometimes get way too creative). Although the article says two other people were charged, so I guess they were with another guy too. In any event, it doesn't sound like it was an attempt to burglarize a home, but rather a really really really stupid move on Wall's part to hang out in a vacant home that was unlocked without the owner's approval. I don't know if this signals the immediate end of Duke's recruitment of Wall - it could potentially, but not until more information comes to light, IMO. It's not like JamesOn Curry's dealing drugs, which ended UNC's recruitment of him; doesn't seem to be nearly on that level. I'll reserve judgment til all the facts come out.

Mods - If this post qualifies as "rumor-mongering," feel free to delete it and accept my apologies.

devildeac
05-04-2009, 11:06 AM
If he is eventually charged with a crime, then perhaps our "friends" in Storrs will be added to his list of potential schools...:rolleyes:

HK Dukie
05-04-2009, 11:07 AM
Lighten up people. It's a misdemeanor at worst.

How many of you got speeding tickets or got flagged by campus police for alcohol consumption or was caught jaywalking. Glass house, stones anyone?

Hell, I used to play football right on the yard right outside a vacant house for years growing up with my friends from the neighborhood. Glad we weren't caught and vilified in the media for it.

Our recruits haven't been completely clean either. I do recall one example of someone with a retired jersey who turned out to be one of our nicest players and great representatives of the university...

Stray Gator
05-04-2009, 11:07 AM
Admittedly this doesn't look good but I would wait until all of the facts come out before rushing to judgment.

Whether or not individual fans here favor Duke's recruitment of John Wall, I would hope that the lessons of the lacrosse rape hoax are still fresh enough in our memories that Duke fans, most of all, would reserve judgment on Wall's guilt or innocence of these charges--especially in light of the report in the news story that there was no forced entry and no indication that anything was taken from the house. As those who remember the incident involving Shelden Williams should understand, sometimes a young person who is innocent can be made to appear guilty of misconduct simply by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. In fairness, I believe we should wait for the investigation to produce evidence that either confirms or refutes the charge, or explains the circumstances, before we pass judgment based on assumptions and speculation.

mehmattski
05-04-2009, 11:10 AM
Two words: Shelden Williams.

jipops
05-04-2009, 11:13 AM
Whether or not individual fans here favor Duke's recruitment of John Wall, I would hope that the lessons of the lacrosse rape hoax are still fresh enough in our memories that Duke fans, most of all, would reserve judgment on Wall's guilt or innocence of these charges--especially in light of the report in the news story that there was no forced entry and no indication that anything was taken from the house. As those who remember the incident involving Shelden Williams should understand, sometimes a young person who is innocent can be made to appear guilty of misconduct simply by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. In fairness, I believe we should wait for the investigation to produce evidence that either confirms or refutes the charge, or explains the circumstances, before we pass judgment based on assumptions and speculation.

Man you beat me to it on this one. I was going to post very similar sentiments. It would be wrong to simply 'bail' on this kid not knowing any actual info.

loran16
05-04-2009, 11:13 AM
Once again, Grain of Salt people.

Nothing's proven, there was no sign of forced entry, and two others were arrested. Nothing taken either.

Which suggests an earlier post that it was a vacant house that they were just hanging out in and got caught.

Is it smart? Not really, there's much better ways to hang out.

Is it a horrible criminal offense that puts his morals below those we want at Duke? Uh....no.

sivartrenrag
05-04-2009, 11:15 AM
If it really is as simple as him hanging out in a vacant house then, well, let's just say I did things that were far worse than that when I was his age. I've also gone inside vacant houses, too! As a matter of fact I scoped out a vacant apartment a few months ago. I agree with everyone else that it's very important that we don't pass judgement too early.

RoyalBlue08
05-04-2009, 11:23 AM
If it really was a vacant house that changes my opinion of the whole thing quite a bit.

SMO
05-04-2009, 11:27 AM
If it really was a vacant house that changes my opinion of the whole thing quite a bit.

Absolutely. The only thing proven beyond a reasonable doubt in my mind is that this thread will reach 2000 posts.

BlueintheFace
05-04-2009, 11:39 AM
(putting on my lawyer hat)

John Wall getting charged with breaking and entering without there being forced entry means that he, or even just one of the friends he was with, simply opened an unlocked door or window and they went inside the vacant house. If he had taken anything, he would have been charged with NC's equivalent of Burglary, which he was not. If he had damaged anything, there would have been further charges as well.

It appears that he and his friends simply entered an unlocked vacant house for a time before leaving.

(taking off my lawyer hat)

Crap, i told myself I wouldn't come back to this thread. I am weak.

MIKESJ73
05-04-2009, 11:45 AM
It was a foreclosed property, but fairly nice. Hopefully it was open and they didn't actually break in. It will be interesting to hear all the facts.

769

moonpie23
05-04-2009, 11:52 AM
doesn't seem too bad unless other information is found out......that big ol' magnifying glass can cause heat too... :eek:

CMS2478
05-04-2009, 11:53 AM
It was a foreclosed property, but fairly nice. Hopefully it was open and they didn't actually break in. It will be interesting to hear all the facts.

769

Wait, so is that John standing in the front yard inside the circle? ;)

Bluedog
05-04-2009, 12:07 PM
It was a foreclosed property, but fairly nice. Hopefully it was open and they didn't actually break in. It will be interesting to hear all the facts.

769

http://realestate.yahoo.com/North_Carolina/Raleigh/3924-laurel-glen-dr:32266badd52a45a3046f756c874ab78

Selling for $134,900 "AS-IS."

yancem
05-04-2009, 12:14 PM
It was a foreclosed property, but fairly nice. Hopefully it was open and they didn't actually break in. It will be interesting to hear all the facts.

769


http://realestate.yahoo.com/North_Carolina/Raleigh/3924-laurel-glen-dr:32266badd52a45a3046f756c874ab78

Selling for $134,900 "AS-IS."

Man, you guys really have too much time on your hands!

SushiChef
05-04-2009, 12:14 PM
http://realestate.yahoo.com/North_Carolina/Raleigh/3924-laurel-glen-dr:32266badd52a45a3046f756c874ab78

Selling for $134,900 "AS-IS."

Man, that's a steal. Just imagine once he becomes an NBA star, you can say that you own the house that John Wall broke into in high school.

tecumseh
05-04-2009, 01:05 PM
I think this incident makes it MORE likely he ends up at Duke. He can use Duke's good image to help his and the people around him may realize he needs some top notch people to prepare him for the big time and whatever else Duke does or does not do they prepare people for the big time scrutiny of life in the NBA as well as anyone else.

snowdenscold
05-04-2009, 01:17 PM
All I could think about when I read this story was something odd that happened to me fairly recently:

I was going down to VA Beach and needed to stay the night so I called up my mom's good friend who lives there. I had been to her house several times, but not in probably 12 years or so. I remembered the street, but not the actual house #, so she told me that and said it was 3/4 of a mile down on the right. She said she would leave the key in a funny looking plant to the left of the door.

When I arrived on the street at 2 AM I had lost the paper w/ the house #, so I went 3/4 of a mile down and found the only house around w/ the same look and layout as I remembered. I found the key in a funny looking plant to the left of the door and after gathering all my stuff, went in. She lives by herself now and I saw her sleeping since the door was open. I found it odd that the bed wasn't made though (there was stuff all over it) in the guest bedroom and that the bathroom light was on instead of the bedroom light. After being not sure what to do because of the messy room, I wandered around for a bit, feeling this is was odd and eventually was in the kitchen. With the lights on, I finally saw a table full of family pictures and realized THIS WAS THE WRONG HOUSE. After freaking out, I gathered all my things somehow w/o waking her and took them back out to my car. I then realized I had left a big McDonald's trash bag sitting on top of her bathroom trash can and decided to go back in to grab it (or she would have been creeped out the rest of her life).

Thankfully she never woke up. I could have been shot or arrested. It turns out the right house was only 1/2 mile down (they were the only two on the mile long street w/ that layout)


I'm sure that's not what happened here, but it is a very strange true story that is similar...

Scorp4me
05-04-2009, 01:19 PM
You can explain it away all you want, say you did similar things when you were young, remind us we stuck by Shelden, but the fact is he is not our committment (just a recruit) and you were never in the middle of the media circus that is his recruitment. The fact is it shows very poor judgement on his part. I know, most kids these days show poor judgement, but it is the timing I'm speaking about more than the actions. I'm not saying we shouldn't wait til we get all the facts. Might as well see how deep the rabbit hole goes I guess.

Duke4Ever32
05-04-2009, 01:23 PM
According to one of the news articles, this happened at 12:30 last Monday afternoon. I realize this is no big deal, but shouldn't Wall have been in school at this time instead of hanging out in houses that aren't his??

Festus
05-04-2009, 01:52 PM
I would not read anything into the fact that John was not in school on a traditional school day. Nowdays, at least in public school where I taught for a few years, seniors often had accumulated enough credits and quite frequently only attended one or two class periods their last semester. Not sure what the policy is at the Word of God private school.

SoCalDukeFan
05-04-2009, 01:57 PM
is a kid.

SoCal

weezie
05-04-2009, 02:02 PM
that there are few jobs harder than raising a boy.....sigh....

sagegrouse
05-04-2009, 02:03 PM
According to one of the news articles, this happened at 12:30 last Monday afternoon. I realize this is no big deal, but shouldn't Wall have been in school at this time instead of hanging out in houses that aren't his??

Even if he should have been in school and even if his intentions were innocent (no theft intended, e.g.), how dumb do you have to be to be prowling a neighborhood with a couple of buds and going into the back door of a vacant house IN BROAD DAYLIGHT? Seems likely that the neighbors called the cops (I would have). Shheeshh!

sagegrouse
'The only time I can remember getting in trouble like that was when I was 12. My friend Nat and I built a small fire to toast pecans in a wood behind some nice houses. "Nat and Gary are burning down the woods," was the report that reached my Mother (via Nat's mother). Pure exaggeration, it was only a small grass fire that burned at most 20 feet in any direction.'

weezie
05-04-2009, 02:11 PM
Like I said....boys......

Can't wait for my own son to produce a few boys of his own.

keithg
05-04-2009, 02:15 PM
I would not read anything into the fact that John was not in school on a traditional school day. Nowdays, at least in public school where I taught for a few years, seniors often had accumulated enough credits and quite frequently only attended one or two class periods their last semester. Not sure what the policy is at the Word of God private school.

If you guys think that Word of God is a real academic school, you are fooling yourselves. The NCAA clearinghouse quit accepting transcripts from there for a short period of time in 2006 before they were reinstated.

G man
05-04-2009, 02:20 PM
I agree that we should all wait to pass judgment, but as someone with a great career in front of him filled a ton of money and houses that are worth a whole lot more than this place he should recognize the fact that he needs to keep himself out of trouble. I hope this all goes away for his sake, but even though he is a kid he is a legal adult and needs to conduct himself as one.

Azdukefan
05-04-2009, 02:24 PM
According to the homepage, it sounds slim that Wall will be in Durham. Hopefully that information is incorrect.

DevilWolf
05-04-2009, 02:46 PM
According to the homepage, it sounds slim that Wall will be in Durham. Hopefully that information is incorrect.

Why that's even on there, I have no idea. It basically says "We don't know anything, but Wall won't play at Duke."

JasonEvans
05-04-2009, 03:15 PM
The thing that all of us are wondering in the wake of the Wall arrest is -- how does this affect Duke's recruitment of the kid?

Well, I think it is worth noting that John Wall was arrested on April 27th, about a week before this incident was reported in the press. The key factor, as it relates to Duke, may be whether John told Duke and Coach K about the arrest. Was John forthcoming and honest with K about it after it happened or is K learning of this for the first time today, like the rest of us.

If K is only finding out about this today, I would suspect that it would give him real pause about continuing to pursue John Wall. This is the kind of thing that Wall should tell K about RIGHT AWAY.

On the other hand, if Wall told K (and other coaches) about this shortly after it happened and before it leaked to the media, then I see that as a strong sign that the kid has his head on straight.

We shall see which it is but this could turn into a positive and actually alleviate some of the concerns about Wall. how crazy is that?

--Jason "the rush to judgment by some folks is really foolish" Evans

johnb
05-04-2009, 03:16 PM
A friend of mine was wandering around some woods near Duke. It was getting to be dusk. He was a senior and getting ready to start med school in the fall. He was with his girlfriend, who was starting law school. They found an overgrown, abandoned, long-in-disuse traintrack, and so he--being romantic and drunk--started a modest fire on the track, reasoning that it was the safest place around for a campfire. All went well until the police arrived, and they were arrested for destroying federal property, which is a federal crime. Both had professional parents, and so the legal teams went to work, and the "crime" was expunged. Admittedly, their actions were not revealed on espn (which hadn't yet been created), but they were 22 yo, not 18, and if they'd been convicted, they would have had a hard time going on to their respective professional schools, but I still see them as reasonable people. Walking into and out of a vacant building--if that's all it is-- would be a nonissue if he weren't a great player.

Ie, if K retains his scholarship offer, I'm behind it 100%.

roywhite
05-04-2009, 03:31 PM
The thing that all of us are wondering in the wake of the Wall arrest is -- how does this affect Duke's recruitment of the kid?

Well, I think it is worth noting that John Wall was arrested on April 27th, about a week before this incident was reported in the press. The key factor, as it relates to Duke, may be whether John told Duke and Coach K about the arrest. Was John forthcoming and honest with K about it after it happened or is K learning of this for the first time today, like the rest of us.

If K is only finding out about this today, I would suspect that it would give him real pause about continuing to pursue John Wall. This is the kind of thing that Wall should tell K about RIGHT AWAY.

On the other hand, if Wall told K (and other coaches) about this shortly after it happened and before it leaked to the media, then I see that as a strong sign that the kid has his head on straight.

We shall see which it is but this could turn into a positive and actually alleviate some of the concerns about Wall. how crazy is that?

--Jason "the rush to judgment by some folks is really foolish" Evans

Jason, there are a few different news versions of this timeline, but it seems to me that the most careful accounts of this indicate that he was not arrested, but was detained at the scene and information gathered. A citation for the 4/27 incident was apparently issued last night 5/3.

Not an arrest...a citation, which was issued yesterday.

No info relating to communication between Coach K and Wall, though Wall may have reasonably thought this was not something that needed to be communicated right away.

JG Nothing
05-04-2009, 03:36 PM
According to one of the news articles, this happened at 12:30 last Monday afternoon. I realize this is no big deal, but shouldn't Wall have been in school at this time instead of hanging out in houses that aren't his??

If you can overlook the fact that Wall still has not qualified academically, then it is pretty easy to overlook Wall missing a day of school to hang out in houses that aren't his.

Lulu
05-04-2009, 03:45 PM
I never know if I can trust the front page of this site when it isn't clear what's fact and what's opinion. "Based on what [they've] read and heard" John Wall isn't coming to Duke. Well... does this mean that "Based on the supposed facts regarding Wall's misdemeanor and his character, it is our opinion that Duke won't be his collegiate destination" or "We've heard or read something which directly indicated John Wall is not going to choose Duke? (or Duke is ending its pursuit)". I feel some judging might be present here and I just don't know how to read that.

As completely awful as the headline "breaking and entering" sounds, the fact that there was no forced entry lends slight credibility to the notion that this isn't necessarily a big deal. This is a high school kid after all with high school friends. As ridiculous as it might sound we should wait to see what the story is, because it wouldn't be the first time one kid was unaware of what was going on or mislead my friends (e.g. "This is my uncle's house; he won't care"... only to find out later that the uncle in question actually cared a whole LOT. etc etc And add some underage drinking by anyone present and suddenly you could have adults feigning ignorance. It's far-fetched, but just making a point.) So, sure, it's probably cut-and-dry breaking and entering, but let's wait a moment before declaring anything about this incident.

houstondukie
05-04-2009, 03:58 PM
Could someone refresh my memory...

This incident happened on Monday, April 27. When was the infamous Coach K - John Wall meeting that was suppose to happen but never did because Coach K was "stuck" in NYC for his book tour?

I apologize if I am getting my dates wrong.

DevilWolf
05-04-2009, 04:09 PM
I think the meeting was supposed to be April 21st or something like that.

Ian
05-04-2009, 04:23 PM
I agree with the calls for not rushing to judgment.

However, I think it's pretty clear based on everything that Wall is not coming to Duke.

I think I agree with Jumbo's post earlier. If it were any one or two of these things, you can explain it away. But it's ALL of these things. Sure, everyone has a story where one of the things Wall has been involved in can be explained away as just a harmless mistake.

Take Shelden for example, yes, he had that one issue, but aside from that he had no other issues, so you can explain that as someone caught at the wrong place at the wrong time.

If this latest were the first signs of concerns with Wall, it would be easy to explain away, but the track record is more than a little disconcerting.

MIKESJ73
05-04-2009, 04:32 PM
Wall could have been at school on the 27th. Word of God is right down the road (Rock Quary Rd.) from the house he was detained at. It was lunch time and with a total high school enrollment of 34 students for 4 grades, I'm sure there isn't a cafeteria. Seniors probably can leave for lunch. It was stupid, but I did stupid things when I was 18 too.

blueprofessor
05-04-2009, 04:34 PM
The thing that all of us are wondering in the wake of the Wall arrest is -- how does this affect Duke's recruitment of the kid?

Well, I think it is worth noting that John Wall was arrested on April 27th, about a week before this incident was reported in the press. The key factor, as it relates to Duke, may be whether John told Duke and Coach K about the arrest. Was John forthcoming and honest with K about it after it happened or is K learning of this for the first time today, like the rest of us.

If K is only finding out about this today, I would suspect that it would give him real pause about continuing to pursue John Wall. This is the kind of thing that Wall should tell K about RIGHT AWAY.

On the other hand, if Wall told K (and other coaches) about this shortly after it happened and before it leaked to the media, then I see that as a strong sign that the kid has his head on straight.

We shall see which it is but this could turn into a positive and actually alleviate some of the concerns about Wall. how crazy is that?

--Jason "the rush to judgment by some folks is really foolish" Evans

Good points.
As a parent trying to assume Wall's mom's impression, I would look to a program that is close to home, a school with a top rep for class and academics, and a coach and staff and players who would be 1st rate role models for my kid.
The AAU coach must know that another event like this could cost Wall a lot of money, but momma is thinking that she doesn't want her baby around any program that has punks in it or on the periphery.

Best--Blueprofessor:)

stickdog
05-04-2009, 04:41 PM
This misdemeanor B&E citation clearly eliminates Wall from attending any college that doesn't have doming, tunneling or sex in the stax.

johaad
05-04-2009, 05:12 PM
This misdemeanor B&E citation clearly eliminates Wall from attending any college that doesn't have doming, tunneling or sex in the stax.

I guess you are on tdd also.

Wander
05-04-2009, 05:27 PM
This misdemeanor B&E citation clearly eliminates Wall from attending any college that doesn't have doming, tunneling or sex in the stax.

And driving in reverse...

Yeah, I never got how that one was grouped with the others.

darkblue2769
05-04-2009, 05:35 PM
So, Wall was supposed to "trim his list of schools" today....

Anybody else think this is what he meant?
(I kid, of course)

miramar
05-04-2009, 06:10 PM
This is what eight coaches are thinking as they read the N&O:

"Damn, this kid can leave school and go to a house three miles away during his lunch hour! That's what I call a fast break!"

Dianesboy
05-04-2009, 06:54 PM
that there are few jobs harder than raising a boy.....sigh.... Bria Renea Draughn, 16...except raising a girl.

dukebsbll14
05-04-2009, 07:37 PM
Well, now that Wall's been charged with a misdemeanor...

enter Carolina

Wheat/"/"/"
05-04-2009, 08:00 PM
Well, now that Wall's been charged with a misdemeanor...

enter Carolina

UNC is the one school that has seemed to step away from this kid a long while ago. 'Ol Roy just might be one step ahead, again. ;)

That said, I agree with DBR that we should sit back and withhold any judgement on the kid. The facts don't seem to be too clear. And he is in such a bright spotlight, the glare could be blinding us all...or maybe it did blind him.

NYDukie
05-04-2009, 09:11 PM
I've been in the pro Wall faction during the recruitment. This was mainly due to allowing a kid, at let's not forget how we were when we were 18 year old kids, another chance at a great opportunity to further not only his NBA aspirations but be exposed to a top level education and also to other individuals who would help him grow into a man. I'm also in the corner of those saying not to rush to judgement on Wall similar to the LAX case. I also remember that Sheldon Williams was accused of a act that could have landed him in jail but was never substantianted. And I also understand that this trouble that Wall is now in, whether proven correct or not, seems minor compared to others who have been accepted on various campuses in the country. However, my bigger issue is that there seems to be a pattern of issues that don't pass the "smell" test and as a result, Duke may be better off passing on Wall. It has been him attending multiple schools in the past few years, have handlers influence him, his academic integrity questioned and now this. I know that individually these instances may not seem great, but there seems not to be always "something" going on with Wall. Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions, and I'm flip-flopping on my stance, but maybe it's best to stay away from Wall before he takes down others with him. There just seems to be a bad karma that follows this kid.

Chicago 1995
05-04-2009, 09:30 PM
UNC is the one school that has seemed to step away from this kid a long while ago. 'Ol Roy just might be one step ahead, again. ;)



A while ago? Like less than a month? Or did Ol Roy not check in on John after the Final Four? And do you really think Roy would be staying away if he didn't have Clifton there talking some sense ;) into John? You really think Roy prefers a Drew/Strickland combo over Wall?

You've earned the right to crow over here Wheat. Roy's killing us on the court and he's killing us worse off the court, but stuff like this is a little much.

Wheat/"/"/"
05-04-2009, 09:51 PM
A while ago? Like less than a month? Or did Ol Roy not check in on John after the Final Four? And do you really think Roy would be staying away if he didn't have Clifton there talking some sense ;) into John? You really think Roy prefers a Drew/Strickland combo over Wall?

You've earned the right to crow over here Wheat. Roy's killing us on the court and he's killing us worse off the court, but stuff like this is a little much.

Now, now, show me one example of where I have "crowed" here.
It didn't happen so you might want to save your time on the search feature.

The only thing I may be remotely guilty of is a little pregame good natured trash talking and some spirited defense of HansHeOwnsYou. :)

UNC is not showing up on any list I've seen lately as going after him. And in the last article I read, Wall himself was quoted saying that UNC has not contacted him since before the tournament. I have been traveling for over a week, so things could have changed. Am I wrong ?

derayb
05-04-2009, 10:11 PM
JW's real crime here was chasing skirt...

He had access to the house because it used to belong to a friend's family... he was using it as a convenient location to handle his business with the young tender mentioned in the article. He got caught with his pants down (not literally) coming out of the house after the fact. Because the neighbor who was apparently watching the house and called the police was likely watching he events unfold, the officer issued the slap on the wrist citation (which is equivalent to a speeding ticket by the way) and moved on. This would have never made the news had someone not leaked it to the press...The third wheel was the guy who gave JW and the girl a ride (that is why he was caught upon "returning to the house").

Villify JW all you want but the fact is kids do this sort of thing all the time and he just happened to get caught. Breaking and entering is the equivalent of trespassing. If your neighbor's door is open and you walk in, if an officer happens to catch you in the house without proof that you have permission to be there, it is breaking and entering. If there was the slightest thought that there was even an "intent" to steal anything (or otherwise commit a crime), burglary would have been the charge.

Chicago 1995
05-04-2009, 10:32 PM
Now, now, show me one example of where I have "crowed" here.
It didn't happen so you might want to save your time on the search feature.

The only thing I may be remotely guilty of is a little pregame good natured trash talking and some spirited defense of HansHeOwnsYou. :)

I meant only the good natured pro-UNC discussion you've added to the board. You're proud of your Tarheels and you should be. I didn't mean that your pro-UNC talk -- that I did call crowing -- was anything untoward. You've been a gentleman here, even if one wearing the wrong shade of blue.

And Psycho T doesn't need you to defend him until at least the start of the NBA season, Wheat. He's got a legion of college referees who are doing, and have been for four years, the defending for you.

When they hang his banner at the Dean Dome, will they raise three officials jerseys with it? ;)


UNC is not showing up on any list I've seen lately as going after him. And in the last article I read, Wall himself was quoted saying that UNC has not contacted him since before the tournament. I have been traveling for over a week, so things could have changed. Am I wrong ?

There are quite a few posts that show UNC did at least check in after the Final Four. I don't think those have been shown to be false.

http://www.tarheelfanblog.com/2009/04/did-roy-williams-call-john-wall/

UNC may not be recruiting him, but they did show interest in April, and given Clifton's anti-Roy stance, it's at least possible, no, that UNC isn't recruiting him because it wouldn't do any good. Roy wouldn't be the first or last coach to quit recruiting a kid so he wouldn't get rejected. I don't think it's anywhere near obvious that Wall's baggage is the reason UNC hasn't targetted him. Clifton's anti-UNC stance and Wall's indifference is as possible, as is the idea that last November, Roy was more sure that Larry Drew and Dexter Strickland were going to be his PGs of the future.

xblade
05-04-2009, 10:41 PM
Villify JW all you want but the fact is kids do this sort of thing all the time and he just happened to get caught.

Well, since you put it THAT way, I guess it's ok then. Heck, who cares really anyway. I mean, we're already compromisng our integrity by recruiting a guy who couldn't care less about college to begin with, so what's a little breaking and entering among elite basketball recruits? :rolleyes:

Scorp4me
05-04-2009, 11:19 PM
I haven't been in the pro-Wall camp from the beginning, but NYDukie still explained my reasons better than I could. Just a shame that our involvement in this recruitment will only add fuel to the "Duke's desperate" fire.

And Carolina isn't recruiting him because Wall said there was next to no way he would end up there. This was after Roy spoke to him following the Final Four. So of course he isn't recruiting him.

Wheat/"/"/"
05-04-2009, 11:35 PM
I meant only the good natured pro-UNC discussion you've added to the board. You're proud of your Tarheels and you should be. I didn't mean that your pro-UNC talk -- that I did call crowing -- was anything untoward. You've been a gentleman here, even if one wearing the wrong shade of blue.

And Psycho T doesn't need you to defend him until at least the start of the NBA season, Wheat. He's got a legion of college referees who are doing, and have been for four years, the defending for you.

When they hang his banner at the Dean Dome, will they raise three officials jerseys with it? ;)



There are quite a few posts that show UNC did at least check in after the Final Four. I don't think those have been shown to be false.

http://www.tarheelfanblog.com/2009/04/did-roy-williams-call-john-wall/

UNC may not be recruiting him, but they did show interest in April, and given Clifton's anti-Roy stance, it's at least possible, no, that UNC isn't recruiting him because it wouldn't do any good. Roy wouldn't be the first or last coach to quit recruiting a kid so he wouldn't get rejected. I don't think it's anywhere near obvious that Wall's baggage is the reason UNC hasn't targetted him. Clifton's anti-UNC stance and Wall's indifference is as possible, as is the idea that last November, Roy was more sure that Larry Drew and Dexter Strickland were going to be his PGs of the future.

No worries here.

It seems that UNC decided long ago not to go after him that hard, for some reason. I really have no idea what the inside story is.

I have loosely followed Wall's recruitment for over a year, and the sense I have gotten durnig that time is that they love his game, and always tried to keep their options open in case he showed he could mature, but after the initial evaluation, he was never a real target.

UNC fans have been practically begging UNC to recruit him, but Roy has been pretty cool to the idea the whole way, for whatever reason.

There is no doubt UNC would love to have a player with his talent, as would Duke and everybody else. And talent like his can make programs willing to deal with a lot of "issues".

But UNC seems to have recognized something amiss with him early on and not willing to deal with it.

Of course, my two bit deductions of third party info from the internet will make me look stupid if UNC signs him tomorrow. I'll be the first to admit to not having a clue concerning the recruiting game.

stickdog
05-05-2009, 06:24 AM
I've finally determined that the main reason I want Wall at Duke so much (other than the fact that he is simply an amazing point guard) is because UNC fans fear this possibility so much.

Bob Gibbons is a perfect example (http://www.newsobserver.com/821/story/1513808.html)

Gibbons, a recruiting analyst for All-Star Sports, said the arrest might make some schools reconsider, though.

"Even though this is a misdemeanor, it creates one more question mark with John Wall," Gibbons said. "If an [athletic director] somewhere hears about this, the basketball coach might have to offer an explanation of why the school is recruiting John. This creates a little red circle around John; it creates more doubt.

"When you add this to borderline academics and the probability that he may play only one year -- and will he play for the good of his college team or for his NBA draft status? -- and there is a little bit more uncertainty. The misdemeanor may bother some schools more than others. This could be the determining factor in whether a school wants to have a relationship with him."

*****

I can't help but find it hilarious that almost every UNC fan on the planet thinks that the most heinous thing that could possibly ever happen in the entire history of human civilization is if John Wall somehow goes to Duke!

derayb
05-05-2009, 07:20 AM
Well, since you put it THAT way, I guess it's ok then. Heck, who cares really anyway. I mean, we're already compromisng our integrity by recruiting a guy who couldn't care less about college to begin with, so what's a little breaking and entering among elite basketball recruits? :rolleyes:

and there you go making assumptions...

NYDukie
05-05-2009, 08:40 AM
I haven't been in the pro-Wall camp from the beginning, but NYDukie still explained my reasons better than I could. Just a shame that our involvement in this recruitment will only add fuel to the "Duke's desperate" fire.

And Carolina isn't recruiting him because Wall said there was next to no way he would end up there. This was after Roy spoke to him following the Final Four. So of course he isn't recruiting him.

Thanks Scorp4me. However, I do disagree that Duke appears desperate.

Continuing to add to this thread, I want to add few more thoughts to Wall's recruitment and situation. I don't see the initial problem of recruiting a player who may want to be near home, play for a top program and be able to develop his NBA skills while being exposed to a top level institution, coach and teammates. This even if Wall wasn't the "stereotypical" Duke recruit, and I DON'T MEAN BEING WHITE but with regards to the overall student/athlete package. Others were given opportunities such as Dockery, Avery and Sheldon the past 10 years and some took advantage of what was given to them and others not so much. I can see where Wall seems to be a good kid but he also seems very immature. I know we are all immature at 18 but again, I go to a pattern of events or situations that have occurred that have swayed me from being pro Wall. I don't think Wall intentionally goes looking for or going to cause trouble. I just think he makes more bad decisions than most and is appears to be easily influenced. He may be a leader on the court but it looks like he may not be one off it. I know some will say "you don't know him". And I don't and it's all assumption on my part as it is by everyone of who Wall is. However, I am going by what I have read, heard and seen. And as most of you know, perception plays a great part in how we are perceived and what doors are open for you and the perception I have has soured on Mr. Wall. I hope he proves me wrong because I wish him no ill will but I'd be willing to bet that there will be "something else" that will occur involving Wall to some degree or another in the near future.

Channing
05-05-2009, 08:51 AM
I don't know what the North Carolina law is specifically, but someone needs to sit Mr. Wall down (along with just about every other high school senior) and tell him the stories of Genarlow Wilson and Marcus Dixon.

SupaDave
05-05-2009, 09:31 AM
Well, since you put it THAT way, I guess it's ok then. Heck, who cares really anyway. I mean, we're already compromisng our integrity by recruiting a guy who couldn't care less about college to begin with, so what's a little breaking and entering among elite basketball recruits? :rolleyes:

How do you know he couldn't care less? I guess that's why he's looking at all these programs - b/c he doesn't care.

johaad
05-05-2009, 09:42 AM
I don't know what the North Carolina law is specifically, but someone needs to sit Mr. Wall down (along with just about every other high school senior) and tell him the stories of Genarlow Wilson and Marcus Dixon.

I thought the same thing. But we still don't really know what he was doing in that house, so barring any other bombshells with this situation, he should be fine. I'm still not going to villify a kid for a mistake. As Duke fans (given our history) we should know better.

SupaDave
05-05-2009, 09:44 AM
I don't know what the North Carolina law is specifically, but someone needs to sit Mr. Wall down (along with just about every other high school senior) and tell him the stories of Genarlow Wilson and Marcus Dixon.

I have a problem with this. WHY do you think this is relevant? This is a totally different situation that has nothing to do with any sort of violence. I'm also positive that Wall is aware of their situation. Not just that but I'm quite sure that it was all in the "chase" as previously mentioned. I can personally recall sneaking off into the high school basement with a female a time or to myself.

NOW, if you want to get into the villification of the young black male, which is where this thread has dipped into from time to time then perhaps those stories may have some merit but at this time this is something more on the level of a juvenile offense that will most definitely not even result in anything more than some community service - if that.

blueprofessor
05-05-2009, 09:45 AM
[/I]

*****

I can't help but find it hilarious that almost every UNC fan on the planet thinks that the most heinous thing that could possibly ever happen in the entire history of human civilization is if John Wall somehow goes to Duke!

There is a discussion on Devil's Den now in this regard (and the selective memory of some UNC fans) and a listing of the voluminous crimes by numerous UNC basketball and football players---including some whose misconduct occurred in high school and still were allowed to play at UNC.
Many were assaults on females; some were hard drug cases. Some bballers discussed are Wallace,Stack,Worthy,Scott,Rice,Reid,McInnis, Newby,Ndiaye,Lawson,Graves,Forte,Cota.

Point guard appears to be a particular position problem. The football list requires the work of a stenographer to transcribe.

Roy got a second chance at Kansas, so Wall should have his rehabilitation as well.Heh.Both had too much time on their hands.
Best --Blueprofessor:)

dukiedevil89
05-05-2009, 09:45 AM
I honestly think it's a waste of time to debate right now the ethics of recruiting a kid charged with breaking and entering. If he chooses Duke (which I still hope he does), then we can discuss it. But if doesn't pick Duke, then we will have wasted all of our time arguing whether it's acceptable for Duke to even think of recruiting a kid like him.

I've been following this ginormous thread for a while now, and up to this point, I have found it very interesting and informative. But I hope that, in the midst of this new situation, we can still keep this thread on the topic of whether John Wall comes to Duke and other information about schools recruiting him without getting into controversial topics like ethics or just downright depressing topics like whether Duke is "desperate" or K has "lost his edge."

Also, we are still Duke, so we are still awesome. ;) And I love us no matter what! Go Duke!

Reddevil
05-05-2009, 09:47 AM
JW's real crime here was chasing skirt...

He had access to the house because it used to belong to a friend's family... he was using it as a convenient location to handle his business with the young tender mentioned in the article. He got caught with his pants down (not literally) coming out of the house after the fact. Because the neighbor who was apparently watching the house and called the police was likely watching he events unfold, the officer issued the slap on the wrist citation (which is equivalent to a speeding ticket by the way) and moved on. This would have never made the news had someone not leaked it to the press...The third wheel was the guy who gave JW and the girl a ride (that is why he was caught upon "returning to the house").



If this scenario is the motivation behind what happened, it is a relief to me. Embarrassing - sure; Poor judgement - definitely; Understandable - absolutely.

Channing
05-05-2009, 09:57 AM
I have a problem with this. WHY do you think this is relevant? This is a totally different situation that has nothing to do with any sort of violence. I'm also positive that Wall is aware of their situation. Not just that but I'm quite sure that it was all in the "chase" as previously mentioned. I can personally recall sneaking off into the high school basement with a female a time or to myself.

NOW, if you want to get into the villification of the young black male, which is where this thread has dipped into from time to time then perhaps those stories may have some merit but at this time this is something more on the level of a juvenile offense that will most definitely not even result in anything more than some community service - if that.

you're kidding right...Wilson and Dixon were both star high school athletes who were convicted of (Wilson) or charged with (Dixon) statutory rape. How is that the villification of young black male? Regardless of the outcome, both men had to spend a significant amount of time behind bars. I don't understand how you DONT see the relevance. A lot of high school students dont realize the possible remifications of "skirt chasing" - especially when, in the eyes of the law, they are a man (isnt Wall 18 or 19), and their partner is a child (wasnt she 16). Regardless of where Wall commits, I would hate for his career, and more importantly his life, to be derailed because of unintended legal consequences.

Again, I dont see how that is the villification of a young black male. Race had nothing to do with my post (other than the fact that Dixon and Wilson were both african american. The point still holds for any caucasian, hispanic, or native american athletes who have found themselves in similar circumstances), and I am a little surprised at your race bating.

Sobriquet
05-05-2009, 09:59 AM
I've finally determined that the main reason I want Wall at Duke so much (other than the fact that he is simply an amazing point guard) is because UNC fans fear this possibility so much.

Bob Gibbons is a perfect example (http://www.newsobserver.com/821/story/1513808.html)

Gibbons, a recruiting analyst for All-Star Sports, said the arrest might make some schools reconsider, though.

"Even though this is a misdemeanor, it creates one more question mark with John Wall," Gibbons said. "If an [athletic director] somewhere hears about this, the basketball coach might have to offer an explanation of why the school is recruiting John. This creates a little red circle around John; it creates more doubt.

"When you add this to borderline academics and the probability that he may play only one year -- and will he play for the good of his college team or for his NBA draft status? -- and there is a little bit more uncertainty. The misdemeanor may bother some schools more than others. This could be the determining factor in whether a school wants to have a relationship with him."

*****

I can't help but find it hilarious that almost every UNC fan on the planet thinks that the most heinous thing that could possibly ever happen in the entire history of human civilization is if John Wall somehow goes to Duke!


You have really hit the nail on the head. The UNC fear of this is palpable. With good reason. Wall is almost as fast as Lawson, but he is 5-6 inches taller.

UNC, and the college basketball media at large, are really scared of Wall coming to Duke for a couple of reasons. First, his arrival would probably vault Duke back near the top of college hoops next year. Stories about Duke's demise are more popular (and fun for them to write) than stories about Duke winning big with articulate, upstanding, intelligent young men. I can see their point. For a writer, the whole Duke wins and the young men are steller, and CIS is awesome, and all this at a school where NONE OF MY READERS COULD GET INTO has been done to death.

Second, Wall's inclusion at Duke would be K's THIRD reset of recruiting. His first was obviously when he arrived at Duke, his second was with the Battier-Brand-Burgess class after the lackluster recruiting of the Mid-90s. Wall would be a signal that Duke is going after the very top kids, regardless of longevity at Duke. If we got Wall, you can bet your patootie that Knight would start to keep a very keen eye on Duke. He might see himself leading a talented team in need of a PG after Wall becomes a top 3 draft selection (after leading Duke on a deep March Run). Suddenly, the top kids, who may have an eye on the pros sooner rather than later, would start to seriously consider Duke. And if we are seriously being considered, K can close the deal as well as anyone. Some of these One-and-doners could really benefit from K, both as basketballers and as men, but also from the public perception standpoint. Wall's commitment could start a river of top notch talent to Duke. This would set up Duke as a perennial super power, yet again, and I have previously mentioned how the media isn't crazy about that.

As for UNC, of course, Duke will have gotten a top notch player from withing Bicycle distance of UNC. A player who might bury them next year, and possibly lead Duke to March Glory. A player who might 'reset' the Duke juggernaught.

As for the media, and others, who worry that Wall will play for Wall and not for Duke, that is a foolish worry. They are the same thing. Wall has a rep for a good passing PG who can run a team both in the transition game and in the half court.

What is good for John Wall is good for Duke.

If he comes in and looks for his own shot and doesn't distribute the ball or play good D, it will only cost him money. There are some red flags about this kid. I want him to come to Duke, but I can't deny that there are some iffy things on his CV. The one, and ONLY, thing that counterbalances that is the fact that he is a super athletic PG, perhaps the second most valuable position in the NBA (behind stud low posts, of which there is one every 3-5 years anymore). To max out his NBA value, Wall must run the team, distribute the ball, and basically lead Duke to success. He knows, after watching Rose, that there is no better way to max out his NBA potential than a strong NCAA run.

Given where revenues are, in the next few years we could see rookie salaries actually go DOWN, or the first contract period get extended. His biggest paycheck could be from an endorser, and that money is getting harder to come by today.

I don't worry about the ME factor on John Wall. His most selfish acts, those acts in his very best self interest, happen to encompass being a great PG, passing the ball, and running the team. I don't see how that is bad for Duke.

As a self rejoineder, I am fully cognizant that not all one-and-dones fit this mold. There are some players, mostly wing Gs and Fs, whose self interest could be detrimental to a team. They are in a position to get the ball in their hands and do something that is good for themselves but not the team. Since they are judged on scoring, not passing, they can turn into black holes, put up good numbers, and bail on a team without the team winning big in March. Posts can do this, but they don't always get the ball enough to make it happen.

For example, see Stephenson, Lance, and Sidney, Renardo. Lance is a complete ball hog, and Sidney, whose skills and body type make him a player Duke desparatelly needs, has been upfront about only being out for himself. Duke never made a serious inquiry about either. Neither of those guys were going to unpack their bags at Duke, so we didn't need that. Wall, by virtue of playing the PG, will play for Duke's benefit, even if he doesn't unpack his bags.

I trust K in this. I have been upset for years that he wasn't going after the top, short-term, players. I understand that he wants kids who unpack their bags, but I disagreed with his blanket refusal to go after most of them. On a case by case basis, I trust K to determine which of the elite talents will mesh at Duke, both on and off court. I never expect Duke to make runs at every top one and done, even those who play a position of need. But I wanted to see Duke go after some of them. Now that we are seriously going after guys like Wall, it will send a signal to other top players that Duke is a viable destination, even for the short term.

4decadedukie
05-05-2009, 10:18 AM
With respect to DBR's superb management, today’s front-page makes the point that Wall was not arrested for misdemeanor Breaking and Entering. I am not a lawyer -- and I leave definitive judgments to our attorneys -- but I believe DBR is misinformed. The fact that the police opted to issue a citation, rather than to detain Wall, does not mean he was not “arrested.” I am quite certain this incident will appear on Wall's criminal record (and I know he would be required to list this as “an arrest," for example on Federal security clearance background forms that mandate full criminal-involvement information, not only convictions). I am NOT attempting to “pile on” Wall or to denigrate him in any manner; however, I believe it is important to be entirely accurate.

roywhite
05-05-2009, 10:19 AM
A lot of high school students dont realize the possible remifications of "skirt chasing" - especially when, in the eyes of the law, they are a man (isnt Wall 18 or 19), and their partner is a child (wasnt she 16). Regardless of where Wall commits, I would hate for his career, and more importantly his life, to be derailed because of unintended legal consequences.



One small note...16 is the legal age of consent in NC.

Channing
05-05-2009, 10:30 AM
One small note...16 is the legal age of consent in NC.

fair enough, which is why I initially posted that I dont know the NC law.

Sobriquet
05-05-2009, 11:58 AM
With respect to DBR's superb management, today’s front-page makes the point that Wall was not arrested for misdemeanor Breaking and Entering. I am not a lawyer -- and I leave definitive judgments to our attorneys -- but I believe DBR is misinformed. The fact that the police opted to issue a citation, rather than to detain Wall, does not mean he was not “arrested.” I am quite certain this incident will appear on Wall's criminal record (and I know he would be required to list this as “an arrest," for example on Federal security clearance background forms that mandate full criminal-involvement information, not only convictions). I am NOT attempting to “pile on” Wall or to denigrate him in any manner; however, I believe it is important to be entirely accurate.

A citation is not an arrest. It is like a Driving "Citation." If Wall is "convicted" it will be treated as a Level 1 crime. As a former ADA I can tell you that Level 1 crimes are misdemeanors such as speeding, jay walking, or similiar.

The real negative is that it IS a crime and will be counted against him should he get into more trouble at a later date.

And since it is a citation, it is easily remedied. If the owner of the house says that Wall was invited in or had permission to be in the house, the ADA HAS to dismiss.

After reading this report, this isn't a big thing at all.

4decadedukie
05-05-2009, 12:27 PM
Thanks, Sobriquet, for the helpful information.

miramar
05-05-2009, 12:35 PM
Since Wall gets out of school at noon, I find it commendable that he spends his afternoons scouting investment properties that he will be able pick up at rock bottom prices once he signs that fat NBA contract. I am sure that young lady with him is a future real estate agent, and she was merely giving him some handy investment advice.

I am glad to see that John is already planning for his future. Most guys his age are just interested in sports and girls.

SilkyJ
05-05-2009, 12:45 PM
This is an absolute show. I am worried that UM seems to have gained ground however.

You worry every time someone opens their mouth and isnt talking about Duke.


This is what eight coaches are thinking as they read the N&O:

"Damn, this kid can leave school and go to a house three miles away during his lunch hour! That's what I call a fast break!"

Since Wall gets out of school at noon, I find it commendable that he spends his afternoons scouting investment properties that he will be able pick up at rock bottom prices once he signs that fat NBA contract. I am sure that young lady with him is a future real estate agent, and she was merely giving him some handy investment advice.

I am glad to see that John is already planning for his future. Most guys his age are just interested in sports and girls.

Count it. 2 for 2.

This frenzy over every word and every move John makes is getting absurd. For everyone involved. He ought to do himself a favor and get on with his decision, then the media spotlight can focus squarely on others like Lance Stepheson and Renardo Sidney...and soon enough Brandon Knight once the summer tour picks up.

Vincetaylor
05-05-2009, 02:35 PM
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/5075734/

After hearing more details on the incident, I no longer think this is a big deal at all. I regret jumping to conclusions before the facts came out. It's unfortunate that WRAL chose to make a big deal of it when they probably were privy to the facts before making it "Breaking news" on their website.

geraldsneighbor
05-05-2009, 02:40 PM
You worry every time someone opens their mouth and isnt talking about Duke.


This post is from what 4 or 5 days ago? In that time Duke does seem to have faded a little bit on his list for whatever reason. I'm not sure why your singling me out anyway when other posters worry as well.

SupaDave
05-05-2009, 03:07 PM
you're kidding right...Wilson and Dixon were both star high school athletes who were convicted of (Wilson) or charged with (Dixon) statutory rape. How is that the villification of young black male? Regardless of the outcome, both men had to spend a significant amount of time behind bars. I don't understand how you DONT see the relevance. A lot of high school students dont realize the possible remifications of "skirt chasing" - especially when, in the eyes of the law, they are a man (isnt Wall 18 or 19), and their partner is a child (wasnt she 16). Regardless of where Wall commits, I would hate for his career, and more importantly his life, to be derailed because of unintended legal consequences.

Again, I dont see how that is the villification of a young black male. Race had nothing to do with my post (other than the fact that Dixon and Wilson were both african american. The point still holds for any caucasian, hispanic, or native american athletes who have found themselves in similar circumstances), and I am a little surprised at your race bating.

But there was no rape and you don't know what happened. Those guys were not even remotely close to Wall's level and didn't receive a smidgeon of the scrutiny. They were also victim's of a system and archaic laws which pitted classmates against each other. Why would you even take it down the 'rape' road? It is NOT a parallel.

darkblue2769
05-05-2009, 03:24 PM
The treatment the press gives to athletes who have run into the law disgusts me. Sure, Wall is probably guilty of the B&E charge he was handed, but news stations run out with no more than a headline and leave everyone guessing, assuming he's the next big gangster crime lord when, if what some posters here have said, his charge is extremely misleading. I tend to believe, at least to some extent, what has been here about him really only being there for, ahem, "personal" reasons. Yes, that's still wrong, yes he still broke the law, but no, it is NOT a big deal. But still, thanks to the media, everyone is up in arms. I'll stop there, so as to not branch to far from the topic of Wall, but it really is horrible that the press can act this way when receiving only part of the story, distributing such misleading information and possibly hurting the future of such a talented kid.

In any case, I hope that this does not become an even bigger issue, hope that it does not affect our recruitment of Wall, and hope that it does not affect his future any more than it should.

Sobriquet
05-05-2009, 03:29 PM
The treatment the press gives to athletes who have run into the law disgusts me. Sure, Wall is probably guilty of the B&E charge he was handed, but news stations run out with no more than a headline and leave everyone guessing, assuming he's the next big gangster crime lord when, if what some posters here have said, his charge is extremely misleading. I tend to believe, at least to some extent, what has been here about him really only being there for, ahem, "personal" reasons. Yes, that's still wrong, yes he still broke the law, but no, it is NOT a big deal. But still, thanks to the media, everyone is up in arms. I'll stop there, so as to not branch to far from the topic of Wall, but it really is horrible that the press can act this way when receiving only part of the story, distributing such misleading information and possibly hurting the future of such a talented kid.

In any case, I hope that this does not become an even bigger issue, hope that it does not affect our recruitment of Wall, and hope that it does not affect his future any more than it should.

The treatment SOME athletes get from the Press.

If Wall were committed too or seriously considering UNC, this story would be told from an entirely different standpoint.

Honestly, it is like there is a vast, Baby-Blue Conspiracy to get Wall to go anywhere but Duke.

No one ever beleives me when I say, but those Baby Blue Basterds are pure evil.

Luckily, their capacity for Evil is surpassed by their incompetance.

KandG
05-05-2009, 03:39 PM
Just a shame that our involvement in this recruitment will only add fuel to the "Duke's desperate" fire.



Don't know if "Duke" is desperate, but the continued growth of this thread and speculation around every microscopic new development points to a hysterical level of desperation among Duke fans, no question.

stickdog
05-05-2009, 04:09 PM
Don't know if "Duke" is desperate, but the continued growth of this thread and speculation around every microscopic new development points to a hysterical level of desperation among Duke fans, no question.

Just trying to see what happens when a thread grows to 100 pages ...

Back on the topic of the amazing desperation of UNC fans to send Wall packing anywhere but Duke ....

Bomani Jones is Exhibit B (http://www.850thebuzz.com/blog/?p=9496)

Far be it from me to tell someone what’s best for him, but there have been two constants in Wall’s recruitment – the school he’s always wanted to go to and the coach he most wants to play for. That school is North Carolina. That coach is John Calipari. Calipari, at Memphis and Kentucky, has demonstrated legitimate interest. North Carolina has not. Factor in in the possibility that Kentucky would be a Final Four candidate with Wall, and this appears to be a no-brainer. ...

Of Wall’s prominent suitors, an overwhelming majority of neutral observers agree that Kentucky is the only choice that makes sense. Miami can offer Miami and Duke can offer proximity to home and Duke, but no one could objectively say any school left in this could offer the combination of prestige, publicity, professional preparation, and potential for success as Kentucky. In all likelihood, Wall will spend one year in college before beginning his professional career. 2009’s decision must be with 2010 in mind first and foremost, and no one has proven capable of doing more in one season with a wunderkind point guard than John Calipari. ...

The only question left – other than one of the zillion involving North Carolina’s apparent lack of interest in Wall — is why anyone would suggest that Wall go anywhere but Lexington. ...

Wall’s list is amorphous, but it can be broken down into three groups – Kentucky, a pipe dream, and everyone else. It’s hard to imagine there’s much to figure out, if basketball is at the center of the decision.

Sobriquet
05-05-2009, 04:20 PM
Don't know if "Duke" is desperate, but the continued growth of this thread and speculation around every microscopic new development points to a hysterical level of desperation among Duke fans, no question.

I don't think it is hysterical.

We are facing a unique set of circumstances with this one. As it stands, with G in the Draft, Duke is thin at guard. Casey Saunders Freshman year thin.

But, there are a lot of pieces for a successful year already in place. We have a lot of length in the post, some potentially great wings, and a wealth of experience.

Even so, a Sweet 16 flameout with this year's team would surprise NO ONE. We are missing a few key elements. Most glaring is a Brandesque low post beast. There aren't any of those still available.

Secondly, we need an athletic, pas first PG capable of penetrating the lane at will AND setting other players up. Frankly, such a PG would somewhat negate our other weakness (wide body post). Our current collection of bigs would be most effective running end to end and crashing the boards following a drive, and feasting off dish-offs from said drives to the hole.

As it just so happens, there is a guard who meets those criteria, still on the board, and he is strongly (I hope) considering Duke. Not only does he fit the criteria to a t, but he is the Number 1 player in the country. He would elevate what is currently a top 15 (ish) recruiting class into the top 5. His skills and style of play would enable Kelly and MP2 to get on the court earlier, because highly skilled, mobile bigs will thrive with a guard like Wall. Without such an athletic, penetrating PG, our bigs will have to operate in a half court set against established Defenders. Defenders who can take advantage of our guy's lack of bulk. With perimeter orriented guards who aren't great penetrators, the mobility and skill of our bigs (no, Talls) is less valuable.

Furthermore, I feel some desparation IS called for. Next year is as good a chance (with Wall) to have a deep March Run as Duke has seen for a few years. I would like Jon and Kyle to have some March Success. Jon graduates next year. There is a decent (or better) chance that Kyle goes pro early next year. Lance and Zoubs also graduate. That leaves a real thin team.

I know, I know, "the 2010 recruiting class will bring Duke back to glory!!!!!!!!"

I am not so sure. In that class we have:

Andre Dawson: He projects to be an absolute stud. Shooting, jumping, apparantly he can do it all. Of course, he plays the same position as E-Will, who could be one of the best players in the nation as a JR. Even so, AD will be hard to keep on the bench if his recent play is any indicator.

Josh Hairston: Currently he is in the mid 20s to mid 30s depending on the service. Right now, given the low level of comp he faces in HS, and the overall reports on athleticism/skill, I don't really see him as anything more than a Lance Thomas Level of player. His ranking has dipped since he committed. Maybe he brings it back up this summer. I think a lot of services have trouble ranking him because he plays against garbage in a low level of comp in VA.

Tyler Thornton: Solid pg/sg. Good pg, decent athlete, solid scorer. Basically, a very poor man's Daniel Ewing. Frosh Daniel, not sr Daniel. Maybe closer to Bobby Frasor or Larry Drew Jr. Most services seem to be screaming "career backup" when discussing him, which in itself occurs very infrequently, which is also a notable occurance in college hoops recruiting.

Curry: Undersized SG. Until I hear otherwise, I am not considering him a PG. If that develops this year we may be set. If not, we will have three players in E-Will, Dawkins, and Curry who are best suited at the SG. Nolan will be the PG, and that has yet to blow wind up my kilt.

When considering the 2010 class, many of you seem to be taking for granted Harrison Barnes, one of either Kyrie Irving or Brandon Knight, and a maybe a post to be named later, hopefully Josh Smith.

Well those guys havent committed yet. This board penciled in Greg Monroe and Kenny Boynton very early in the process, and got neither. Until they committ, a recruit is just someone we are recruiting.

We have major comp for all the above players. Everybody is after Barnes, and some think Kansas or UNC may have just as good a chance as Duke. Irving has been singing IU's praises for a while, and they are shadowing his every move. Florida and KY, to name but a tiny few, are seriously after Knight, whose list seems to change every other week. Smith is reported to be a huge Left Coast lean, despite his comments to the contrary.

Currently, out of the 2020 class, we for sure have

Dawkins: Top 15, and rising, stud.
Hairston: Top 35 player whose ranking has slipped.
Thornton: Top 75 player whose upside potential is limited.
Curry: Undersized SG who was a gunner in his frosh year at a level way below the ACC. There are several HS teams that could take Liberty.

Folks, the above is a solid recruiting class with a potential superstar. But it is not a class that will return Duke to glory. Hairston and Thornton don't figure to start, and depending on player progess among current players they might not play much, at all, as frosh. If Kyle should return, and Kelly were to progress, and Olek were to become a capable sub, there might be serious talk of a red shirt for Hairston.

So yes, there is some desparation over Wall. He MIGHT be able to turn a solid team into a spectacular team. We might not make the FF, even with Wall.

But I am fairly confident in saying that next year's team is a long shot for the elite 8 or beyond with its current makeup, barring phenomenal player improvement by current players.

stickdog
05-05-2009, 04:21 PM
Brett Friedlander is Exhibit C (http://www.starnewsonline.com/article/20090501/ARTICLES/905019955/1017/NEWS0102?Title=ACC-Insider-John-Wall-won-t-build-right-history-for-N-C-colleges)

Even teams with plenty of blue chip talent to put around him might want to think twice about mortgaging their programs – and in Krzyzewski’s case, their principles – by bringing in a stop-gap solution such as Wall. ...

If you’re Krzyzewski or Williams, do you really want a point guard who is that indecisive? Or worse, if he’s holding out for the best deal – above or below the table – or stringing out the process because he enjoys being the center of attention, do you want someone of that kind of character? No matter how desperate you are, the answer is no.

Let him go to Kentucky, where he’ll help John Calipari get established and maybe sell a few tickets before leaving for the NBA. Duke, UNC and State simply don’t need the aggravation.

*****

Friedlander is especially funny here. UNC is out because Roy Williams burned the Clifton bridge. NC State is out because even with Wall, they would struggle to make the NCAA tournament. Since of the three only Duke is a legitimate potential destination, Wall definitely isn't worth the trouble.

Is it just me, or is the possibility of Wall going to Duke simply eating away at UNC fans to the point that they are already working themselves through the seven stages of grief?

Sobriquet
05-05-2009, 04:25 PM
Brett Friedlander is Exhibit C (http://www.starnewsonline.com/article/20090501/ARTICLES/905019955/1017/NEWS0102?Title=ACC-Insider-John-Wall-won-t-build-right-history-for-N-C-colleges)

Even teams with plenty of blue chip talent to put around him might want to think twice about mortgaging their programs – and in Krzyzewski’s case, their principles – by bringing in a stop-gap solution such as Wall. ...

If you’re Krzyzewski or Williams, do you really want a point guard who is that indecisive? Or worse, if he’s holding out for the best deal – above or below the table – or stringing out the process because he enjoys being the center of attention, do you want someone of that kind of character? No matter how desperate you are, the answer is no.

Let him go to Kentucky, where he’ll help John Calipari get established and maybe sell a few tickets before leaving for the NBA. Duke, UNC and State simply don’t need the aggravation.

*****

Friedlander is especially funny here. UNC is out because Roy Williams burned the Clifton bridge. NC State is out because even with Wall, they would struggle to make the NCAA tournament. Since of the three only Duke is a legitimate potential destination, Wall definitely isn't worth the trouble.

Is it just me, or is the possibility of Wall going to Duke simply eating away at UNC fans to the point that they are already working themselves through the seven stages of grief?


AMEN.

Seriously.

Baby Blue Conspiracy. It is so transparant that it is sad.

darkblue2769
05-05-2009, 04:28 PM
Yes, fans on this board are going crazy over Wall, but given how phenomenal his play is and how we are still in the running to get him on our team in the spot where we desperately need a player, I don't find it hysterical. A little excessive, maybe, but not hysterical.


no one could objectively say any school left in this could offer the combination of prestige, publicity, professional preparation, and potential for success as Kentucky.

This I find hysterical.

TheBrianZoubekExperience
05-05-2009, 04:38 PM
A citation is not an arrest. It is like a Driving "Citation." If Wall is "convicted" it will be treated as a Level 1 crime. As a former ADA I can tell you that Level 1 crimes are misdemeanors such as speeding, jay walking, or similiar.

The real negative is that it IS a crime and will be counted against him should he get into more trouble at a later date.

And since it is a citation, it is easily remedied. If the owner of the house says that Wall was invited in or had permission to be in the house, the ADA HAS to dismiss.

After reading this report, this isn't a big thing at all.

I agree that its not really a big deal if the facts that are coming out are correct. Though a citation is not necessarilly an arrest, couldn't Wall still have been considered under arrest? My memory of crim law was that you can be aressted or under arrest if you aren't free to leave even if you aren't put in handcuffs or told you are under arrest.

InSpades
05-05-2009, 04:41 PM
Currently, out of the 2020 class, we for sure have
...


You know things are getting crazy when you are talking about recruiting classes that will not attend Duke for more than a decade!

Just doing my part to get to 2000.

FireOgilvie
05-05-2009, 04:43 PM
If Kyle should return, and Kelly were to progress, and Olek were to become a capable sub, there might be serious talk of a red shirt for Hairston.



I agree with most of what you say, but this is crazy. When was the last time Duke red-shirted a scholarship player when he wasn't injured? Also, Singler, Kelly, and Olek can all play 3/4, while Hairston is a definite 4. If Singler is even still here (I doubt it), there will be plenty of PT for Hairston.

Back to John Wall.

Bomani Jones and Brett Friedlander are out of their minds. I truly think it's a good fit, even if it's different from the usual situation.

MChambers
05-05-2009, 04:44 PM
Andre Dawson: He projects to be an absolute stud. Shooting, jumping, apparantly he can do it all. Of course, he plays the same position as E-Will, who could be one of the best players in the nation as a JR. Even so, AD will be hard to keep on the bench if his recent play is any indicator.

At least we'll have a centerfielder!

(Also doing my part to get to 2000 and beyond!)

stickdog
05-05-2009, 04:57 PM
Although more ABD haters than actual UNC fans, Luke DeCock and JP Giglio are Exhibits D & E.

Wall Would Be a Success at State (http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/decock/story/1430903.html)

Dear John Wall,

The best of your basketball career is still in front of you, but as you finish up your final year at Word of God, you've got a big choice to make. ...

You have valid reasons for choosing whatever school you end up selecting. No one's going to hold it against you. But here's some unsolicited advice: Give a second thought to staying home and going to N.C. State. ...

Kansas and Duke also have their obvious merits. The latter would keep you at home as well, but it's hard to see your personality and style of play being a fit with Mike Krzyzewski. Plus, you wouldn't get the true benefits of Krzyzewski's coaching in only one season.

It's not like you could go wrong at either of those schools, but at N.C. State, you have a chance to do so much more. ...

Wall Would Be Great At State, But Duke Must Be Horribly Desperate To Even Consider the Mercenary (http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/desperate-act-by-duke)

Duke's pursuit of Raleigh's John Wall, a presumed "one-and-done" basketball recruit, illustrates both a shift in Mike Krzyzewski's recruiting philosophy and just how desperate the situation is for Duke. ...

But Curry can't help Duke in '09-'10, a potentially great Duke team if both Gerald Henderson and Kyle Singler return. Wall can, hence the mercenary's visit with Duke on Monday, a recruit K wouldn't have touched five years ago. A less desperate Coach K would have wished Wall good luck, not promised him Jason Williams' playbook. ...

Sobriquet
05-05-2009, 04:59 PM
I agree with most of what you say, but this is crazy. When was the last time Duke red-shirted a scholarship player when he wasn't injured? Also, Singler, Kelly, and Olek can all play 3/4, while Hairston is a definite 4. If Singler is even still here (I doubt it), there will be plenty of PT for Hairston.



I agree that it is unlikely. Kyle could be gone, and Kelly and Olek would have to really improve for this to happen. But there is precedent. I was on campus when Casey committed, and it was an open secret that Casey was going to redshirt to work on his game and body. But then Elton went pro, Burgess transferred, and our post options were reduced to Boozer and some walk-ons. And some bald headed defensive whiz. Whatever his name was. (no depth is what I's is getting at).

I think Hairston has some 3/4 potential as well, depending on his athleticism. Opinions on that are all over the place, again probably due to lousey comp in HS. (Hie thee to Oak Hill)

As for Wall, Duke is a perfect fit. Better than KY in my opinion. Duke has mobile bigs who can run with Wall and not clog the lane. KY has plodding dinosaurs who will get in his way.

As for Cal turning out better 1 year pros: he has.

His ability to take one of the top 2 guards in the class and turn them into immediate pros is astounding. If not for Cal, both these players, neither of whom would have fallen out of the draft lottery if eligible as HS seniors, would never have made the PROs.

Given how obnoxious the UNC fans here in the Triad are of late, this fly in their ointment is causing me to chub a little.

stickdog
05-05-2009, 05:08 PM
I agree that it is unlikely. Kyle could be gone, and Kelly and Olek would have to really improve for this to happen. But there is precedent. I was on campus when Casey committed, and it was an open secret that Casey was going to redshirt to work on his game and body. But then Elton went pro, Burgess transferred, and our post options were reduced to Boozer and some walk-ons. And some bald headed defensive whiz. Whatever his name was. (no depth is what I's is getting at).

I think Hairston has some 3/4 potential as well, depending on his athleticism. Opinions on that are all over the place, again probably due to lousey comp in HS. (Hie thee to Oak Hill)

There is almost no way that Hairston won't be at least a decent contributor as a freshman. The redshirt suggestion is way OTT. Even in a stacked 2010 class, I would look for Hairston to regain his top 25 status with his play this summer. I'm not sure if he will ever be a 3/4, but he can play the Duke 4, and he's definitely got some game.

Sobriquet
05-05-2009, 05:10 PM
I agree that its not really a big deal if the facts that are coming out are correct. Though a citation is not necessarilly an arrest, couldn't Wall still have been considered under arrest? My memory of crim law was that you can be aressted or under arrest if you aren't free to leave even if you aren't put in handcuffs or told you are under arrest.


Here, the cop has reasonable suspician, you know, by having witnessed Wall come out of the house. After stopping Wall, and I am sure performing a pat down, he has questioned Wall, which the pig (Free Wall!) is free to do. Wall COULD have left, but then it becomes resisting an arrest, which is major. Yes, the citation is like an arrest, but not really. It is closer to a conviction. Most judges will accept the cop's account barring other serious evidence to the contrary. The cit mainly involves a fine. But if you leave before the cop finishes giving you the citation, it then becomes resisting an arrest.

Given where NC's state budget is, and our state's Const. limitations, this cop probably only gave out the citation for the revenue it will genarate.

FireOgilvie
05-05-2009, 05:15 PM
Here, the cop has reasonable suspician, you know, by having witnessed Wall come out of the house. After stopping Wall, and I am sure performing a pat down, he has questioned Wall, which the pig (Free Wall!) is free to do. Wall COULD have left, but then it becomes resisting an arrest, which is major. Yes, the citation is like an arrest, but not really. It is closer to a conviction. Most judges will accept the cop's account barring other serious evidence to the contrary. The cit mainly involves a fine. But if you leave before the cop finishes giving you the citation, it then becomes resisting an arrest.

Given where NC's state budget is, and our state's Const. limitations, this cop probably only gave out the citation for the revenue it will genarate.

True. Wall made at least one smart move by not immediately running away. Although, if he did, there's no way he would have been caught... one step and he's goooone. :D

hedgehog
05-05-2009, 05:21 PM
Andre Dawson: He projects to be an absolute stud.

I know his OBP was pretty low, but the Hawk could really knock them out of the park. Not sure how he'll be for us at SG/SF, though.

SilkyJ
05-05-2009, 05:22 PM
I agree that it is unlikely. Kyle could be gone, and Kelly and Olek would have to really improve for this to happen. But there is precedent. I was on campus when Casey committed, and it was an open secret that Casey was going to redshirt to work on his game and body. e.

More like a rumor...You have no way of validating that. It was also an open secret that Zoubek and Nolan were going to transfer last year. Come on, you can do better than a 10 year old rumor.

TheBrianZoubekExperience
05-05-2009, 05:25 PM
Here, the cop has reasonable suspician, you know, by having witnessed Wall come out of the house. After stopping Wall, and I am sure performing a pat down, he has questioned Wall, which the pig (Free Wall!) is free to do. Wall COULD have left, but then it becomes resisting an arrest, which is major. Yes, the citation is like an arrest, but not really. It is closer to a conviction. Most judges will accept the cop's account barring other serious evidence to the contrary. The cit mainly involves a fine. But if you leave before the cop finishes giving you the citation, it then becomes resisting an arrest.

Given where NC's state budget is, and our state's Const. limitations, this cop probably only gave out the citation for the revenue it will genarate.

I guess what I'm asking is wasn't Wall technically under arrest when he was stopped? It seems that he was. Being arressted and being charged/cited are different events. When he was stopped I beleive he is under arrest. He hasn't been charged with anything or cited for anything at that point but he isn't free to leave. Then the officer makes the decision on what to do. He could have let him go and not cited him, cited him, took him to the station/taking him into police custody, etc, etc. But I think that technically he was under arrest when the officer stopped him to investigate what was going on/what happenned. The outcome was that he was cited but he does seem to have been arrested if I remember the definition correctly (haven't taken crim in awhile so could be way off). I don't want to belabor this since its a minor point but I think the person you were responding to (who said that they thought Wall was arressted) is correct.

Either way I don't think his actions seem that serious all in all. I still hope he comes to Duke.

Sobriquet
05-05-2009, 05:41 PM
There is almost no way that Hairston won't be at least a decent contributor as a freshman. The redshirt suggestion is way OTT. Even in a stacked 2010 class, I would look for Hairston to regain his top 25 status with his play this summer. I'm not sure if he will ever be a 3/4, but he can play the Duke 4, and he's definitely got some game.

I agree it is doubtful. But not impossible.

Duke's post rotation in 2010-11 would be as follows:

Kyle Singler: Senior. Campus King. Preseason ACC POY frontrunner.
MP1
MP2
Ryan Kelly
Olek

Given what we absolutely know about the guards we will have:

Nolan
Dawkins
E-Will
Curry

At a guess, the starting rotation with that current roster would be Curry/Smith at the PG
Any two of Dawkins/EWill/Curry at the wing positions.

Kyle at starting PF

One of the remaining Bigs at C.

Kyle will play big minutes at the F. Huge MPG. Anything under 30 would shock me, unless we are absolutely railing other teams. MP1, MP2, and Kelly are all better suited to C than Hairston, and all of them are capable of also playing at the 4 to rest Kyle. Given Hairston's 6-8, 195 lb frame, if he is playing with Kyle, Kyle would have to play the C.

Given that we only have 4 guards, Kyle probably plays some at the 3 as Duke goes "tall"

But if Barnes, or another top flight wg/wf were to commit, Kyle would spend every minute on the court at a 4.

I am just saying that there are a lot of quality bigs for Hairston to beat out in that scenario. I know he won't beat out Kyle. The Plums and Kelly could be hard to dislodge. And by then, Olek will be a JR. If he has progressed, he will get some burn as well.

It seems like Hairston is a poor man's Kyle Singler right now. And this says nothing of Hairston the college frosh vs Senior Kyle.

Certainly, Kelly, both Plums, and Olek would have to be very good for this to come about.

And of course, my opinion doesn't include improvement by Hairston, which could certainly happen. It also assumes no attrition, which seems highly unlikely.

The redshirt comment may very well have been OTT. But my underlying point was that people are pointing to the 2010 class as a bunch of saviors on white horses swooping in to turn Duke into world beaters, when the reality is that 2010 is a solid class with one surefire (probably) starter from day one (Dawkins), and two players who might not get significant minutes as frosh (Thornton and Hairston). And a transfer eligible player whose role remains undefined. It is a good class. But, right now, it isn't a top flight class. It wouldn't even be top 5 at Duke. Maybe not top 10. With a few more commits, sure, it could be bananas. Could ain't Is.

On a related note, I am having real trouble with Josh Hairston and Harrison Barnes. Hairston and Harrison are messing with my head. We need nicknames, or SOBRIQUETS, stat.

Wall, Please come to Duke. Help Duke win a title so that Kyle and Jon can ride off into the sunset (NBA) as they richly deserve. Thus negating all my above reasoning.

See how I tied it all up the end, back to Wall, so this isn't an off topic post.

Convoluted, full of shoddy reasoning, self aggrandizing, and barely pertaining to the topic at hand.

You've just been Lawyered.

BigDuke6
05-05-2009, 05:45 PM
I guess what I'm asking is wasn't Wall technically under arrest when he was stopped? It seems that he was. Being arressted and being charged/cited are different events. When he was stopped I beleive he is under arrest. He hasn't been charged with anything or cited for anything at that point but he isn't free to leave. Then the officer makes the decision on what to do. He could have let him go and not cited him, cited him, took him to the station/taking him into police custody, etc, etc. But I think that technically he was under arrest when the officer stopped him to investigate what was going on/what happenned. The outcome was that he was cited but he does seem to have been arrested if I remember the definition correctly (haven't taken crim in awhile so could be way off). I don't want to belabor this since its a minor point but I think the person you were responding to (who said that they thought Wall was arressted) is correct.

Either way I don't think his actions seem that serious all in all. I still hope he comes to Duke.

I thought it is considered an arrest if the Miranda Rights are read. For instance, you can be placed in cuffs to be detained but not arrested until you have been read your rights.

Sobriquet
05-05-2009, 05:45 PM
More like a rumor...You have no way of validating that. It was also an open secret that Zoubek and Nolan were going to transfer last year. Come on, you can do better than a 10 year old rumor.

One of the student managers from that squad was a friend and neighber going back to our days in Brown Dorm and (shudder) Trent.

Casey was going to redshirt. Then the world changed.

Sobriquet
05-05-2009, 05:48 PM
I thought it is considered an arrest if the Miranda Rights are read. For instance, you can be placed in cuffs to be detained but not arrested until you have been read your rights.

It's a grey area. Fleeing a citation becomes resisting arrest because most citations are driving related, with a cop standing beside a car. If that car tears off before while the cop is standing there the cop would be in serious danger.

And state reps don't get re-elected by putting cops in danger.

A citation isn't an arrest, but it is treated as such when fleeing said citation/arrest because the legislature wants to discourage actions that put cops in danger.

dubayuw
05-05-2009, 05:50 PM
Is there a deadline for when he has to commit? I feel like this will never end...:rolleyes:

BlueinBlo
05-05-2009, 05:50 PM
Is there a deadline for when he has to commit? I feel like this will never end...:rolleyes:

BTW, 100 Pages!!!

I read somewhere May 20th.

dubayuw
05-05-2009, 05:53 PM
I read somewhere May 20th.

Huh... He probably wont decide until then at this rate.:confused:

cwaugh
05-05-2009, 05:53 PM
we now have 2000 posts