John Wall Recruitment

[JDev]

If that's the case, the Collins/Aldrich decisions are good news (in eliminating a competitor for Wall's services), but bad news (in that Kansas will be very good next year).

With those guys returning, and if KU gets either/or of Xavier Henry or Lance Stephenson, which seem like very real possibilities, they have to be on the short list of preseason number one teams.

[arnie]

With Collins returning to Kansas, I think we can cross off Kansas on Wall's list. That leaves us with Baylor, Memphis, Duke, Miami, NC St., and unc.

Did I miss something - Kentucky no longer on his list??

[TheBrianZoubekExperience]

Chad Ford mentioned in his ESPN chat today that there is some talk that Wall will try to declare for the 2009 NBA draft. He may be eligible because he's a 5th year senior and turns 19 in 2009. A case like this hasn't been challenged yet but Ford says the NBA will wait and see what he does and then make a decision. Ford said he will be following up later on the story. He said if he declares hes probably top 5, maybe top 3.

[rotogod00]

"With Collins returning to Kansas, I think we can cross off Kansas on Wall's list."

you may soon be able to scratch everyone off his list. according to chad ford "there is some buzz that Wall believes he might be eligible for THIS year's draft. I've been doing some digging and will be filing a story later today. The short rub is this: Wall is a 5th year senior and depending on how you read the collective bargaining agreement, 5th year seniors are eligible for the draft as long as the turn 19 in the calander year (Wall does). The league is taking a wait and see approach. If he declares, they'll research and make a ruling."

[rotogod00]

Chad Ford mentioned in his ESPN chat today that there is some talk that Wall will try to declare for the 2009 NBA draft. He may be eligible because he's a 5th year senior and turns 19 in 2009. A case like this hasn't been challenged yet but Ford says the NBA will wait and see what he does and then make a decision. Ford said he will be following up later on the story. He said if he declares hes probably top 5, maybe top 3.


you beat me to it :(

[crimsonandblue]

Is that assessment based solely on the scholarship situation at KU?

If that's the case, the Collins/Aldrich decisions are good news (in eliminating a competitor for Wall's services), but bad news (in that Kansas will be very good next year).

It's not a scholarship crunch at Kansas that eliminates Wall (KU had two kids transfer out, leaving one available scholarship and KU may have use of another). It's just the reality of Wall wanting (and deserving) the ball in his hands at point. And Collins isn't coming back to play off the ball.

Kansas needs to land either Stephenson or X Henry to assemble a true powerhouse. We'll see if that happens and if KU can get whichever wing, if any, commits to actually show up, be eligible and play.

Good luck with Wall. I think it's interesting how his recruitment has gone.

[BD80]

"... you may soon be able to scratch everyone off his list. according to chad ford "there is some buzz that Wall believes he might be eligible for THIS year's draft. ..."

I must apologize to Wheat, 'ol roy and all cerlina faithful. One phone call from 'ol roy and Wall is ready for the pros. I guess 'ol roy does deserve a reputation for getting players ready for the next level. :rolleyes:

Now begins the flood of posters who will say: "I told you we shouldn't have gotten involved with Wall in the first place."

I would still like to see Wall in a Duke uniform!

[geraldsneighbor]

Did I miss something - Kentucky no longer on his list??

My bad. Kentucky.

[geraldsneighbor]

you beat me to it :(

I'd rather him do that then go play for the folks 8 miles away.

[rotogod00]

Just completed:

Q: John, can you give us your current list of schools?

John: Memphis, Kansas, Baylor, NC State, Miami, Duke, Carolina, Florida.

[redacted for copyright violation; see linky (http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=25978#wall)]

Q: What do you believe is your greatest weakness?

John: Jumpshot.

John: Thanks for all the support. I just hope that no matter what school I pick you support me in the future.

[DevilWolf]

Wall going pro would drop Gerald down another spot, which for entirely selfish reasons, is fine by me.

[johaad]

Can Wall enter the draft this year? I know you have to be 19 but do you also have to have 1 year of college?

[TheBrianZoubekExperience]

Thats what is up for debate. I think the issue is whether he meets this requirement:

"at least one (1) NBA Season has elapsed since the player’s graduation from high school (or, if the player did not graduate from high school, since the graduation of the class with which the player would have graduated had he graduated from high school);"

You could read that to mean that he is eligible because an NBA season elapsed after his HS class of 2008 graduated OR that because he is a 5th year player (and not for instance someone who dropped out at age 16 or something) he is really in the class of 08 and thus not eligible. It seems that if he had lets say dropped out of HS when he was 16 he would be eligible because a full NBA season has elapsed since his scheduled class would have graduated but because he reamined in school he became a part of the class of 2009 and not 2008. I'd have to think about this more but I think thats the issue from a 30 second glance at the CBA.




Here is the CBA:

http://www.nbpa.com/cba_articles/article-X.php

Section 1. Player Eligibility.
(a) No player may sign a Contract or play in the NBA unless he has been eligible for selection in at least one (1) NBA Draft. No player shall be eligible for selection in more than two (2) NBA Drafts.

(b) A player shall be eligible for selection in the first NBA Draft with respect to which he has satisfied all applicable requirements of Section 1(b)(i) below and one of the requirements of Section 1(b)(ii) below:

(i) The player (A) is or will be at least 19 years of age during the calendar year in which the Draft is held, and (B) with respect to a player who is not an international player (defined below), at least one (1) NBA Season has elapsed since the player’s graduation from high school (or, if the player did not graduate from high school, since the graduation of the class with which the player would have graduated had he graduated from high school); and

(ii)

(A) The player has graduated from a four-year college or university in the United States (or is to graduate in the calendar year in which the Draft is held) and has no remaining intercollegiate basketball eligibility; or

(B) The player is attending or previously attended a four-year college or university in the United States, his original class in such college or university has graduated (or is to graduate in the calendar year in which the Draft is held), and he has no remaining intercollegiate basketball eligibility; or

(C) The player has graduated from high school in the United States, did not enroll in a four-year college or university in the United States, and four calendar years have elapsed since such player’s high school graduation; or

(D) The player did not graduate from high school in the United States, and four calendar years have elapsed since the graduation of the class with which the player would have graduated had he graduated from high school; or

(E) The player has signed a player contract with a “professional basketball team not in the NBA” (defined below) that is located anywhere in the world, and has rendered services under such contract prior to the Draft; or

(F) The player has expressed his desire to be selected in the Draft in a writing received by the NBA at least sixty (60) days prior to such Draft (an “Early Entry” player); or

(G) If the player is an “international player” (defined below), and notwithstanding anything contained in subsections (A) through (F) above:

(1) The player is or will be twenty-two (22) years of age during the calendar year of the Draft; or

(2) The player has signed a player contract with a “professional basketball team not in the NBA” (defined below) that is located in the United States, and has rendered services under such contract prior to the Draft; or

(3) The player has expressed his desire to be selected in the Draft in a writing received by the NBA at least sixty (60) days prior to such Draft (an “Early Entry” player).

(c) For purposes of this Article X, an “international player” is a player: (i) who has maintained a permanent residence outside of the United States for at least the three (3) years prior to the Draft, while participating in the game of basketball as an amateur or as a professional outside of the United States; (ii) who has never previously enrolled in a college or university in the United States; and (iii) who did not complete high school in the United States.

(d) For purposes of this Article X, a “professional basketball team not in the NBA” means any team that pays money or compensation of any kind – in excess of a stipend for living expenses – to a basketball player for rendering services to such team.

[TheBrianZoubekExperience]

Note that he can satisfy (1)(b)(ii)(F) by declaring 60 days prior to the draft so I think that the quesiton is whether he satisfies ALL of:


"(i) The player (A) is or will be at least 19 years of age during the calendar year in which the Draft is held, and (B) with respect to a player who is not an international player (defined below), at least one (1) NBA Season has elapsed since the player’s graduation from high school (or, if the player did not graduate from high school, since the graduation of the class with which the player would have graduated had he graduated from high school)"

He meets (A) so yeah I think 1(B)(i)(B) is the issue.

[Bluedog]

According to the CBA, it sounds to me that if Wall graduates high school this year, there is no way he is eligible since it clearly states "at least one (1) NBA Season has elapsed since the player’s graduation from high school." That would not be the case. However, if he doesn't graduate, I suppose it's possible somebody could argue that he is eligible since he should have graduated in June 2008.


or, if the player did not graduate from high school, since the graduation of the class with which the player would have graduated had he graduated from high school

Seems somewhat silly that perhaps he'd only be eligible if he does NOT graduate from high school. I guess he'd just intentionally fail out? That would be the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. You must fail in order to be eligible for the NBA. I don't see how anybody could read that and come to the conclusion that he is eligible if he graduates from high school this year...but I guess anything is possible.

[quakerdevil11]

He's still technically in high school regardless of his age and how long he's been there so it seems like he still has to wait a year, now this might be a different story if he had graduated and then pg'd at a school like lawrenceville or blair....but that's not the case.

[JasonEvans]

I bet Wall declares for the draft and waits on his college choice to see if he is draft eligible. According to NBA.Fanhouse.com (http://nba.fanhouse.com/2009/04/14/john-wall-eligible-for-2009-draft/), NBA spokesman Tim Frank had this to say about Wall looking into the draft--


If John Wall applies, we will then do our due diligence to determine his eligibility. But nothing has been done yet.

--Jason "Wall should talk to Brandon Jennings to see what a year in Europe would be like" Evans

[Mike Corey]

Wall repeated a grade. That means that he is a member of the graduating class of 2009. He can't declare.

He can fight it like Maurice Clarett did the NFL's restrictions a few years ago, but I highly doubt the NBA doesn't have an ironclad argument ready to go for situations like Wall's (it's not terribly unique).

As someone pointed out on a different board, it would be one thing had Wall dropped out of school a year ago. But he did not (I don't believe...ha).

[yancem]

Thats what is up for debate. I think the issue is whether he meets this requirement:

"at least one (1) NBA Season has elapsed since the player’s graduation from high school (or, if the player did not graduate from high school, since the graduation of the class with which the player would have graduated had he graduated from high school);"

You could read that to mean that he is eligible because an NBA season elapsed after his HS class of 2008 graduated OR that because he is a 5th year player (and not for instance someone who dropped out at age 16 or something) he is really in the class of 08 and thus not eligible. It seems that if he had lets say dropped out of HS when he was 16 he would be eligible because a full NBA season has elapsed since his scheduled class would have graduated but because he reamined in school he became a part of the class of 2009 and not 2008. I'd have to think about this more but I think thats the issue from a 30 second glance at the CBA.

This interpretation could be very interesting for a lot of players in the future. As has been mentioned in the Andre Dawkins thread, a lot of athletes end up transferring to private schools during their high school career and repeat a year for multiple reasons. This creates a lot of 5th year seniors who are/will be in the same situation as Wall.

I read the CBA in the same manner as you. Whenever he decided to take the 5 year route, his graduation class changed. I don't think that his 5th year will be able to be counted as his year after graduation. If you are going to say that it does, then you should simply make the restriction simply being 19 years old. What if a kid repeated kindergarten (which happens fairly often)? Can he then say well, I should have been in the previous class?

It's a nice try but I think that the nba put this rule into place so that they can get a better chance to scout these guys against better competition. I doubt that they are going to allow him to skirt this rule.

[moonpie23]

color me "dark blue shades" but that has got DUKE written all OVER it...

[yancem]

Maybe the questions that need to be asked are 1) why all of the sudden is he looking into this option and 2) who's the driving force behind this?

He's been active in the recruiting process for a long time without any hints of trying to circumvent the 1 year rule. Why now? Has his economic situation changes? His academic situation? Does he have some type of legal or eligibility issue? Is one of his "handlers" that people have been wringing their hands about decided they want to try to cash in early?

I don't begrudge the guy for wanting to get to the pros sooner, I think that 1 year rule is bogus, but this just seems weird to me.

[mr. synellinden]

I thought this was the most relevant/interesting response from Wall:

John, what would you say is the most important factor for you in making your college decision? i.e. Coaching style, playing close to home, TV exposure?

John Wall: Staying close to home, making sure I get along with the coach, the community of the school. You have to feel that you feel safea nd like a family.

[nyr484]

Encouraging quotes (from Duke's perspective):

Most important factors: "Staying close to home, making sure I get along with the coach, the community of the school. You have to feel that you feel safe and like a family."
"I think I can have a great impact, Stay humble and hungry"
Greatest accomplishment: "Playing for the Nike Hoops Summit...to put the USA across your chest, it's an honor"


Sounds almost like Coach K...

[moonpie23]

i agree on the 1 yr rule being bogus. Professional sports are basically entertainment. You don't see anyone saying a young actor or musician MUST be one year removed from high-school to be able to make a living as a professional. It's absurd.

There are a lot of "student" athletes in high school that SHOULDN'T go to college, and making them do so has many positive AND negative impacts on them AND the college.

i think it will eventually be struck down in court..

[BD80]

I bet Wall declares for the draft and waits on his college choice to see if he is draft eligible. According to NBA.Fanhouse.com, NBA spokesman Tim Frank had this to say about Wall looking into the draft--
Quote:
If John Wall applies, we will then do our due diligence to determine his eligibility. But nothing has been done yet.

--Jason "Wall should talk to Brandon Jennings to see what a year in Europe would be like" Evans

I still don't get the Europe thing. He could have gone to USC and made about the same amount of money ... :D

Why hasn't this issue been raised before now? Is he using Duke and unc to increase his exposure? If he is truly interested in the NBA, wouldn't he start the process as soon as possible so the issue could be resolved? Or is he waiting until the last minute to try and surprise the NBA so it has no choice but to allow him to be drafted? Is there a limit to the number of question marks one can use in a single paragraph?

The NBA has its position prepared and ready for court. There is no reason to take a position until a fifth year senior applies for the draft. I think they would let him in, becaus the age limit is the key restriction. Frankly, I don't see the reason for the high school restriction - it discriminates against domestic kids.

[roywhite]

Maybe the questions that need to be asked are 1) why all of the sudden is he looking into this option and 2) who's the driving force behind this?

He's been active in the recruiting process for a long time without any hints of trying to circumvent the 1 year rule. Why now? Has his economic situation changes? His academic situation? Does he have some type of legal or eligibility issue? Is one of his "handlers" that people have been wringing their hands about decided they want to try to cash in early?

I don't begrudge the guy for wanting to get to the pros sooner, I think that 1 year rule is bogus, but this just seems weird to me.

Is he "all of a sudden" looking into this? Or is this just a hypothetical?

If there is something afoot, I would guess the advisor (Clifton) is involved.

FWIW, I don't think an argument allowing Wall to enter the NBA this year would win the day.

[JasonEvans]

I still don't get the Europe thing. He could have gone to USC and made about the same amount of money ... :D


I know you are just being funny, but I felt it was worth pointing out that the reason Brandon Jennings went to Europe was that he could not get a good enough SAT score to be eligible as a freshmen. College wasn't really an option for him so he went to Europe instead of doing the Juco thing.

--Jason "actually, Jennings took the SAT three times and got a high enough score one time, but his score was flagged because it was soo high everyone knew he had cheated" Evans

[monkey]

i agree on the 1 yr rule being bogus. Professional sports are basically entertainment. You don't see anyone saying a young actor or musician MUST be one year removed from high-school to be able to make a living as a professional. It's absurd.

There are a lot of "student" athletes in high school that SHOULDN'T go to college, and making them do so has many positive AND negative impacts on them AND the college.

i think it will eventually be struck down in court..

The 1 year rule isn't bogus. It's very smart. It just has nothing to do with helping college. It has everything to do with the NBA proecting the quality of its product. It wants more refined players without GMs feeling the need to draft the guy with incredible skills that will take several years to develop. This way, it's at least a year before that player gets drafted. Bonus from the players side - this helps keep roster spots for skilled older players instead of having those spots get taken by the aforemented skilled raw player that isn't really ready to contibute. Another bonus - the teams don't have to pay millions of dollars to the raw talented athlete while he hones his game for a year.

It wouldn't surprise me to see this increased to two years. And it's not going to be struck down by a court if it's been collectively bargained.

Athletes that don't want to be in college should (and do, if they are talented enough) have the ability to go play in a minor league or in Europe and get paid. I would guess the NBA wouldn't mind this outcome at all.

[TheBrianZoubekExperience]

Is he "all of a sudden" looking into this? Or is this just a hypothetical?

If there is something afoot, I would guess the advisor (Clifton) is involved.

FWIW, I don't think an argument allowing Wall to enter the NBA this year would win the day.

The way Chad Ford wrote it (someone copied it above) it was that Ford was hearing that Wall (or his camp or people or whatever) were thinking that Wall might be eligible. So I took that to mean Wall is considering it rather than just Chad Ford or someone in the media throwing it out as a hypothetical.

All in all, I don't think he has a very strong argument. If he graduates then it seems the CBA will make him wait a year. If he doesn't graduate than he has to argue that he would have graduated in 2008 which doesn't seem possible unless he had all the credits and even then it seems like he voluntarily made himself part of the class of 2009.

My guess is that the parenthetical was meant to address a situation in which someone is on pace to graduate in a certain year but drops out before that time and then declares for the draft the year after they would have graduated. I would think that Wall would have to prove that he would have graduated in 2008 (had met all the requirements) but did not and then chose to use his 5th year in HS. I'd guess in the end he doesn't challenge it and goes to college for a year.

[BD80]

The 1 year rule isn't bogus. It's very smart. It just has nothing to do with helping college. It has everything to do with the NBA proecting the quality of its product. It wants more refined players without GMs feeling the need to draft the guy with incredible skills that will take several years to develop. This way, it's at least a year before that player gets drafted. Bonus from the players side - this helps keep roster spots for skilled older players instead of having those spots get taken by the aforemented skilled raw player that isn't really ready to contibute. Another bonus - the teams don't have to pay millions of dollars to the raw talented athlete while he hones his game for a year.

It wouldn't surprise me to see this increased to two years. And it's not going to be struck down by a court if it's been collectively bargained.

Athletes that don't want to be in college should (and do, if they are talented enough) have the ability to go play in a minor league or in Europe and get paid. I would guess the NBA wouldn't mind this outcome at all.


What is the difference between a four year starter that graduates at 16 and one that graduates at 18? Why make one wait one year and the other one two years? Why can a 19 year old Euro get drafted but a 19 year old like Wall can't? The age limit should be upheld, but the high school limitation should be made as an alternative, thus 19 OR a year past high school graduation.

[KandG]

Maybe the questions that need to be asked are 1) why all of the sudden is he looking into this option and 2) who's the driving force behind this?

He's been active in the recruiting process for a long time without any hints of trying to circumvent the 1 year rule. Why now?


I've tried to stay away from this crazy Wall recruitment saga, but I watch a lot of NBA games and follow the news, and Wall's most recent performance at the Hoop Summit had a *lot* of people drooling. (Example 1 (http://www.blazersedge.com/2009/4/12/832139/nike-hoop-summit-recap), Example 2 (http://freedarko.blogspot.com/2009/04/death-to-america.html))

"It is almost impossible to explain how awesome John Wall is. He's like a more athletic, less selfish, Derrick Rose. Like LeBron if he hadn't been made in space and was crossed with Chris Paul. Like that column someone wrote during Wade's championship about how no one saw Jordan coming, either, and the Messiah is supposed to be unexpected and organic. I have absolutely no idea how someone can be both so freakishly dominant and yet so comfortable staying within an offense. Did I mention he has at least five "extra gears," like a series of increasingly explosive first steps that happen within mere feet of each other?"

My guess would be that now that a bunch of NBA teams' seasons are over and the focus is on a weak draft, the thought that Wall could be a top 3 pick this year led Wall's camp to explore the possibility.

When sites like this are popping up suddenly:

http://draftjohnwall.blogspot.com/

You know it's insane.

[FireOgilvie]

I don't think he'll qualify for the NBA Draft... but if he did, he'd be a possible number 1 pick for the right team. Blake Griffin is good, but NBA teams aren't built around power forwards. This year's draft is really really weak at the top.

[TheBrianZoubekExperience]

I don't think he'll qualify for the NBA Draft... but if he did, he'd be a possible number 1 pick for the right team. Blake Griffin is good, but NBA teams aren't built around power forwards. This year's draft is really really weak at the top.

I could see him going as high as 2 but I don't think any team would take him over Griffin.

[dukeballer2294]

why does he always dunk left handed?

[CDu]

I could see him going as high as 2 but I don't think any team would take him over Griffin.

It's a moot point, as Wall won't be available for the draft. But I could see a few teams that would take Wall over Griffin. Any team in the lottery that is set at PF but could use a PG would want Wall.

For example, Minnesota has Jefferson and Kevin Love, but probably wouldn't mind upgrading over Telfair and Foye at the PG spot (and moving Foye to the SG spot). Same for Sacramento (they have Hawes and Thompson inside, but could stand to upgrade from Udrih).

It would just be a matter of the team with the right needs getting the #1 pick.

[TheBrianZoubekExperience]

It's a moot point, as Wall won't be available for the draft. But I could see a few teams that would take Wall over Griffin. Any team in the lottery that is set at PF but could use a PG would want Wall.

For example, Minnesota has Jefferson and Kevin Love, but probably wouldn't mind upgrading over Telfair and Foye at the PG spot (and moving Foye to the SG spot). Same for Sacramento (they have Hawes and Thompson inside, but could stand to upgrade from Udrih).

It would just be a matter of the team with the right needs getting the #1 pick.

Regardless of need, I really don't see any team passing on Griffin for Wall. At the top of the draft teams usually go for what they think is the best prospect rather than go on need. Blazers passed on upgrading their SF spot from Outlaw to Durant to take Oden when they had Joel, Bulls had Kirk Hinrich and a need at PF and went with Rose, etc. Especially considering that teams have seen Griffin play two years and dominate, I just can't see it happenning. Wall looks like he has a TON of talent but he's not Lebron and he's still only played at the HS level. Thats just my opinion. FWIW Chad Ford pegs Wall in the 3 to 5 range.

Although I thinks its unlikely he declares for the draft and is allowed to enter, I wouldn't rule it out just yet.

Heres the latest from Chad Ford's ESPN.com article:

"John Wall, PG, uncommitted
Pegged as a Derrick Rose clone and a potential No. 1 pick in the 2010 NBA draft, Wall was terrific against the World Team. He showed off his amazing speed, toughness and ridiculous leaping ability on his way to 13 points and 11 assists. While it's clear he needs to work on his jump shot and decision-making in the half-court game, he did about everything he could to get GMs drooling.

After the game a few scouts mentioned to me that they believe Wall is hesitating to commit to a school because he believes he could be eligible for this year's draft. They might be on to something.

Wall is technically in his fifth year of high school -- he had four years of eligibility at a regular high school and played at the Word of God prep school in North Carolina this year. The McDonald's All-American game ruled him ineligible to play because he was a fifth-year senior.

The NBA collective bargaining agreement says an American player is eligible for the draft if:

"The player is or will be at least 19 years of age during the calendar year in which the Draft is held, and with respect to a player who is not an international player, at least one NBA Season has elapsed since the player's graduation from high school (or, if the player did not graduate from high school, since the graduation of the class with which the player would have graduated had he graduated from high school)" -- Article X, Section 1(b)(i).

Wall will turn 19 in September, so he's clear there. The question is: When did Wall's class graduate? If he's truly a fifth-year senior, then it was last year, making him eligible for the 2009 draft.

Since this is a gray area in the NBA CBA, I asked for a comment from the league on Wall's eligibility. The NBA's Tim Frank responded with this:

"Don't have an opinion yet … if he applies, we will then do our due diligence to determine his eligibility."

I spoke with a number of NBA executives who believe, given the facts, that Wall would be eligible for the draft. However, several others disagree.

It will be interesting to see whether Wall applies and forces the NBA's hand. If he is eligible, scouts say he would likely be a high lottery pick, probably somewhere in the 3 to 5 range. And if he goes to college, he has a great chance to be the No. 1 pick in the 2010 draft."

[Newton_14]

why does he always dunk left handed?

In watching his U-Tube clips and in the Hoops Summitt I noticed the same thing. In the online ESPN chat session this week he was asked about it. He said that he has always worked hard on his left hand and that he feels it is his stronger hand now.

In the game Sat he had a break away jam left handed where he cupped it before throwing it down. It was nasty. I was hesitant to jump on the hype wagon, but after watching the Hoops Summitt game, I have to say "wow". He is really really good. The only thing lacking in his game at all is his jumpshot. He plays extremely hard, was very disruptive on defense always hawking the ball and is a great shot blocker. His ball handling and court vision was off the charts, and with his wingspan and hops, he plays bigger than his size which enables him to finish with dunks on plays where other guards his size would have no chance of doing so.

Yet with all that the most impressive play in the game, came when he came from behind his man near half court and disrupted a hand off pass from a big. He then got control of the ball and headed the other way but his man was in the way, so he immediately went behind his back from his left hand to his right, blew by his man and then hit Avery with a sick behind the back pass with his left hand hitting Avery in perfect stride for a lay up.

He is just an extremely gifted young man. To see him in a Duke uniform would be awesome...

[FireOgilvie]

A lot of people compare Wall to Derrick Rose... ESPN said he was a Rose "clone." I watched a lot of Derrick Rose in college and in the NBA and I've seen Wall a few times. Here is my opinion from what I've seen:

1. Wall is a little bit quicker. He has a quicker first step and faster top end (while controlling the ball). If Wall decides he wants to drive on someone, he can't be stopped.
2. Rose can jump a few inches higher, but Wall's arms are longer so they can both throw down. Watch highlight videos of Rose in high school... his head is right under the rim.
3. Wall's long arms and athleticism make him an amazing shot blocker.
4. Rose had a better shot in college than Wall does now, but obviously that can be improved.
5. Rose was stronger. He had some impressive muscle for a freshman in college.
6. Wall might be a better passer than Rose. It's hard to tell.

[JasonEvans]

The more the merrier!!!

After getting word that the NBA is in the mix for John Wall today, there is yet another name to add to the list of schools-- Florida. ESPN spoke to Wall (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/basketball/mens/news/story?id=4068273)and says he has added the Gators to his list of possible schools.


With the addition of the Gators, Wall says he's now considering nine programs at which he could potentially play college ball.

The Gators have come on strong in the past week or two, Wall said. Florida coach Billy Donovan recently visited Wall's mother while he was in Oregon participating in the Nike Hoops Summit.

Florida joins Baylor, Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, Memphis, Miami, North Carolina and NC State as the programs competing for Wall's services.

"Most of the schools on my list, I feel like I am the missing piece for them," said Wall, who was in Bristol touring ESPN's campus before his appearance in the Jordan Brand All-American Game in New York. "If I am going to be in school for one or two years, I want to come in and win."

Wall also says he expects to narrow his list to just a few right after the Jordan Brand game, but he has no timetable for a decision after that.

Oh joy-- I cannot wait for a few more weeks of this!! I want to see if we can take this thread up to 2000 posts...

-Jason ...NOT!!" Evans

[Ian]

At this point I would be shocked if Wall ends up at Duke.

[Kewlswim]

The more the merrier!!!

After getting word that the NBA is in the mix for John Wall today, there is yet another name to add to the list of schools-- Florida. ESPN spoke to Wall (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/basketball/mens/news/story?id=4068273)and says he has added the Gators to his list of possible schools.



Wall also says he expects to narrow his list to just a few right after the Jordan Brand game, but he has no timetable for a decision after that.

Oh joy-- I cannot wait for a few more weeks of this!! I want to see if we can take this thread up to 2000 posts...

-Jason ...NOT!!" Evans

Hi,

Weren't there a bunch of people saying things about how Coach K has lost his recruiting touch if John Wall does not come to Duke? If John Wall does not come to UNC does that mean Coach Williams has lost his ability to recruit too? Wait a minute if he comes to UNC does that mean that Coach Donovan can't recruit anymore either and so we won't have to worry about the Gators winning another national championship in men's hoops?

If Coach Cal gets him he is the best recruiter in the whole world, right? Just making sure. So Coach Donovan, Krzyzewski, and Williams are second fiddle and the championship that UNC won this year is sort of a recruiting fluke because the person who can really recruit the player who puts a team over the top would be Coach Cal? I guess he really did deserve all that money with no national championships below his belt.

GO DUKE!

[RelativeWays]

At this point I almost wish John Wall would just go away. Not that I wish the kid any ill will or wouldn't be thrilled to have him, but this is getting ridiculous. The cynic in my says Wall is playing us all, Duke, UK, UNC everyone for NBA hype and we're all going to end up being big losers. More people are talking about Wall now than a few months ago.

In any event, we need a pg and I certainly hope we have a couple of other irons in the fire outside of Wall and possibly Bledsoe.

[1999ballboy]

Obviously the best case scenario is that he ends up at Duke. If that doesn't happen, I'm hoping he pulls a Brandon Jennings. Since he can't seem to make up his mind, it's as sensible an option as any. And there'd be no talk of anyone "out-recruiting" K. Not that I buy into that talk, but it would be really annoying to have to hear.

[mo.st.dukie]

At this point I almost wish John Wall would just go away.

I kind of find it entertaining. That's one of the main reasons I like to follow recruiting so closely because of all the craziness that happens with some of these players. Sure it's disappointing when I'm waiting on pins and needles for so long only to see the recruit choose another school, but I find the whole process just fascinating. I love hearing all the rumors on various fan message boards and watching people break down every little thing the recruit says in an interview just to try to get a clue as to where he's leaning. It's pretty interesting, who needs reality TV when you've got basketball recruiting.

[RelativeWays]

Its like a study into the theory of deconstruction I guess. Every audience is finding their own fairly different interpretation of the same comment or article written about him.

[BlueintheFace]

The more the merrier!!!

After getting word that the NBA is in the mix for John Wall today, there is yet another name to add to the list of schools-- Florida.

hahahhaha. All you can do is laugh at this point.

[dubayuw]

I thought he was trying to narrow it down, yet he continues to add options. At this point, none of the 9 schools are confident about getting him because he has so many options and has given no indication where he is leaning. Mine as well sit back and watch the show, i don't think we are going to get any hints until he picks a school.

[SilkyJ]

I kind of find it entertaining. That's one of the main reasons I like to follow recruiting so closely because of all the craziness that happens with some of these players. Sure it's disappointing when I'm waiting on pins and needles for so long only to see the recruit choose another school, but I find the whole process just fascinating. I love hearing all the rumors on various fan message boards and watching people break down every little thing the recruit says in an interview just to try to get a clue as to where he's leaning. It's pretty interesting, who needs reality TV when you've got basketball recruiting.

You are one sadistic s.o.b. ;)

If you can take it more props to you. I worry that I'm going to have gray hairs in a few years b/c of this, which is pretty sad.

[Philadukie]

Hi,

Weren't there a bunch of people saying things about how Coach K has lost his recruiting touch if John Wall does not come to Duke? If John Wall does not come to UNC does that mean Coach Williams has lost his ability to recruit too? Wait a minute if he comes to UNC does that mean that Coach Donovan can't recruit anymore either and so we won't have to worry about the Gators winning another national championship in men's hoops?

If Coach Cal gets him he is the best recruiter in the whole world, right? Just making sure. So Coach Donovan, Krzyzewski, and Williams are second fiddle and the championship that UNC won this year is sort of a recruiting fluke because the person who can really recruit the player who puts a team over the top would be Coach Cal? I guess he really did deserve all that money with no national championships below his belt.

GO DUKE!

I read this board thoroughly, and I've never seen anyone state outright that Coach K has lost his recruiting touch. I've seen claims that there may be various factors impacting our ability to recruit, some internal and others external to the program.

These simplistic, either/or salvos meant to scorn any criticism are tiresome and annoying at best and even more tiresome and corrosive at worst.

The mods do a good job of regulating baseless, baiting "negative" comments on this board. The same treatment should be given to baseless, baiting "positive" comments, no?

I rarely post like this, but... really? How many more snide and witless attempts to dismiss any criticism like this do we have to endure?

[roywhite]

I read this board thoroughly, and I've never seen anyone state outright that Coach K has lost his recruiting touch. I've seen claims that there may be various factors impacting our ability to recruit, some internal and others external to the program.

These simplistic, either/or salvos meant to scorn any criticism are tiresome and annoying at best and even more tiresome and corrosive at worst.

The mods do a good job of regulating baseless, baiting "negative" comments on this board. The same treatment should be given baseless, baiting "positive" comments, no?

I rarely post like this, but... really? How many more snide and witless attempts to dismiss any criticism like this do we have to endure?

Okay, you lost me.

What is your point?

[Kewlswim]

I read this board thoroughly, and I've never seen anyone state outright that Coach K has lost his recruiting touch. I've seen claims that there may be various factors impacting our ability to recruit, some internal and others external to the program.

These simplistic, either/or salvos meant to scorn any criticism are tiresome and annoying at best and even more tiresome and corrosive at worst.

The mods do a good job of regulating baseless, baiting "negative" comments on this board. The same treatment should be given baseless, baiting "positive" comments, no?

I rarely post like this, but... really? How many more snide and witless attempts to dismiss any criticism like this do we have to endure?

Hi,

I was trying to show that if Coach K misses out here there are also a number of other Coaches who will miss out here and they are not usually being castigated for a number of the things Coach K is. I didn't mean it to be snide--doesn't snide imply something along the lines of "false" and "deceptive"? Wit is a bit more subjective and I will grant you that it is probably witless, but it was not meant to be particularly witty. However, your note seemed a bit mean-spirited, I might have read it wrong though have a bunch of stuff going on at the same time. Sorry about your loss in Philly, what a voice. :-(

GO DUKE!

[Kedsy]

I read this board thoroughly, and I've never seen anyone state outright that Coach K has lost his recruiting touch. I've seen claims that there may be various factors impacting our ability to recruit, some internal and others external to the program.

These simplistic, either/or salvos meant to scorn any criticism are tiresome and annoying at best and even more tiresome and corrosive at worst.

The mods do a good job of regulating baseless, baiting "negative" comments on this board. The same treatment should be given to baseless, baiting "positive" comments, no?

I rarely post like this, but... really? How many more snide and witless attempts to dismiss any criticism like this do we have to endure?

I thought Kewlswim's was a fair and insightful post. Whether or not people say it "directly," lots of people moan about how we supposedly don't get the good recruits anymore. Notwithstanding the fact that we get loads of top-notch recruits every year, the implication appears to be if we don't get every recruit we "need" (i.e., PG and back-to-the-basket C) there's something wrong. IMO it's a ridiculous viewpoint, and I was glad Kewlswim came out and confronted it.

[Lauderdevil]

At this point I almost wish John Wall would just go away.

Given the long break before fall practice begins, I thank him for giving us something to talk about. Meantime, his delay could be brilliant. If he wants to pick a team that gives him a direct route to a championship (to burnish his image en route to the NBA), why not wait to see who's staying and who's going on the teams he's considering? And why not further strengthen the image by getting speculation going that he would be near the top of the lottery right out of high school?

Exactly what is he doing wrong? Sounds to me like he's playing the game exactly right.

[geraldsneighbor]

I don't know if anyone has had so many school left this late in the recruiting process than Wall. He is quite the methodical one.

[Philadukie]

Hi,

I was trying to show that if Coach K misses out here there are also a number of other Coaches who will miss out here and they are not usually being castigated for a number of the things Coach K is. I didn't mean it to be snide--doesn't snide imply something along the lines of "false" and "deceptive"? Wit is a bit more subjective and I will grant you that it is probably witless, but it was not meant to be particularly witty. However, your note seemed a bit mean-spirited, I might have read it wrong though have a bunch of stuff going on at the same time. Sorry about your loss in Philly, what a voice. :-(

GO DUKE!

Well, I can't stay mad with a well-meaning and frankly nice reply like that.

My post was harsh, and I'm sorry. It's not particularly directed at you really. Yours was just the last in what seems, to me anyway, like a string of posts trying to dismiss any claims or arguments critical of Duke's recruiting with a simplistic and somewhat baiting reply. (How many times are we going to see the sarcastic "But Duke can't recruit any big men" with a winking emoticon after it?)

Your argument, if I understand it correctly, is that if Coach K misses on Wall, so will a bunch of other coaches, and therefore the claims that K's "lost his recruiting touch" are unfounded. First of all, this is a non-sequitur. Whether or not a bunch of other coaches miss on John Wall is no indication of K's ability (or inability) to recruit. Secondly, I've not seen anyone claim that K has "lost his touch." Again, there's been varied and nuanced (and not so nuanced) criticisms leveled against Duke's recruiting, but your post seem to lump them all into one simplistic dismissal.

In any case, this should go back to John Wall. I'm probably sour because I just completed my taxes. Mods, you can delete this whole exchange if you see fit.

BTW, my dictionary says snide means "sarcastic and derogatory," although you may be correct too. And thank you for your condolences. Peace.

[G man]

At this point I would be shocked if Wall ends up at Duke.

At this point nothing would surprise me. Maybe he will go pro at water polo. I think I am done following him until its all over, but come to Duke.

[Greg_Newton]

I rarely post like this, but... really? How many more snide and witless attempts to dismiss any criticism like this do we have to endure?

I kind of agree with you on this (although I thought it was somewhat witty). Please, let's not turn this into a thread on recruiting philosophy and Coach K (again)... which is what baiting posts like that do, no matter what point you're arguing. That's all I'll say about that.

Wall seems to have been going to great lengths recently to keep the suspense up. When he lists his "possibles", he tends to start with NCSU/Miami/Baylor/Kansas, etc, and he left UK off completely in the ESPN chat today... only to confirm later in the interview that yes, they were still a very strong contender. I find it hard to believe all 7 or 8 or 44 or however many schools are still in a dead heat. His final quote was very telling: something like "I hope you all will support me wherever I end up". Is he playing us all, on some level? Yes. Can I blame him? Nope. Smart kid!

He reminds me much more of Chris Paul than Derrick Rose. I remember sneaking up to the 2nd row and watching Chris Paul up close in the NCAA tournament one year, and just being amazed at how fast he could move for a human being... Wall strikes me as the same way. To me, he is a longer, less controlled, better jumping, worse shooting Chris Paul. His game is very different than Rose's, IMHO.

I wouldn't say Rose is a better jumper though - did you see Wall's fast break block Saturday where it came back and hit him in the head? His head was rim level on that play.

[BlueintheFace]

John Wall will beat out Greg Paulus for the QB spot at Michigan. You heard it here first.

[shadowfax336]

John Wall will beat out Greg Paulus for the QB spot at Michigan. You heard it here first.

now THAT is funny

[stickdog]

Draft Express on Wall's NBA draft eligibility (http://www.draftexpress.com/article/NBA-Draft-Roundup-April-15-3182/)

One important fact that needs to be resolved is: did John Wall graduate from high school? A quick call to our friend Dave Telep, widely considered the #1 expert in everything relating to high school basketball, who happens to based out of the same part of the country that John Wall is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Telep says that Wall "has not graduated from high school yet" due to the fact that he was "reclassified after transferring from Garner High School." In Telep's view, Wall "would not be eligible for this year's draft, since his one year clock has not yet started, based on my interpretation of the rules at least." ...

This is all moot, since it doesn't appear that Wall has any interest in being a part of this draft class anyway, as Ford seemed to indicate by saying "Wall believes he might be eligible for THIS year's draft."

"There is absolutely no truth to that whatsoever," Wall's AAU coach Brian Clifton told us. "No merit at all. John hasn't talked about it, his mother hasn't talked about it, and I haven't talked about it. Outside of the three of us, no one is in any position to speculate about that."

When asked whether Wall may reconsider if he were indeed deemed eligible for this year's draft, Clifton didn't leave any doubt: "That's not a question, not a consideration at all. He is going to school, and that has been the plan all along."

[UrinalCake]

"'The player is or will be at least 19 years of age during the calendar year in which the Draft is held, and with respect to a player who is not an international player, at least one NBA Season has elapsed since the player's graduation from high school (or, if the player did not graduate from high school, since the graduation of the class with which the player would have graduated had he graduated from high school)' -- Article X, Section 1(b)(i).

Based on that last parenthetical remark, it almost sounds like it would be better if he intentionally flunked out of school right now. If he graduates, then he has to wait for a year after that graduation. But if he doesn't graduate, then he only has to wait for a year after he WOULD have graduated, and he could argue that he would have graduated last year.

The insanity continues...

[stickdog]

Based on that last parenthetical remark, it almost sounds like it would be better if he intentionally flunked out of school right now. If he graduates, then he has to wait for a year after that graduation. But if he doesn't graduate, then he only has to wait for a year after he WOULD have graduated, and he could argue that he would have graduated last year.

The insanity continues...

That might make sense if he was on pace to graduate from high school last year. However, considering that he got on the 5 year plan when he transferred to Word of God two years ago, I can't see that he has any case.

The spirit of the rule is clearly that US kids cannot declare themselves eligible for the NBA draft until one NBA season has passed since their expected high school graduation date. For John Wall, his expected high school graduation date is this year, rather than last year.

[Indoor66]

It seems to me that his handlers have done a excellent job of keeping Wall's name in the fore and you know what they say about publicity.

[RepoMan]

It seems to me that his handlers have done a excellent job of keeping Wall's name in the fore and you know what they say about publicity.

I don't know. I suppose I shouldn't say anything since I don't follow this in enough detail to really be informed. And, I know everyone uses the terminology, so I am not picking on you.

But, most quotes seems to suggest that there are three people involved with his decisionmaking process. John Wall, his mom, and his coach. How does that become "handlers"? I mean, is Coack K one of G's handlers?

I guess it doesn't matter, but the terminology contributes to this perception that there is something questionable going on, and I wonder if that perception is grounded in reality.

[norduck]

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/prepsnow/john-wall-to-2009-nba-draft

[JasonEvans]

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/prepsnow/john-wall-to-2009-nba-draft

That is old news. There are dozens of posts on that topic in this thread already.

The DBR strongly advises that you spend at least a little bit of time checking the boards to make sure that the "news" you are announcing has not already been reported and commented on many, many times over.

Thanks.

--Jason "mod much?" Evans

[houstondukie]

Can we let the Wall-NBA rumors die now. He never even considered it. It was just another example of the media frenzy over this guy.

From today's RIVALS.com article...

Wall also refuted speculation that he might test the NBA collective bargaining agreement and enter the 2009 draft as a 19-year-old fifth-year high school student.

"No, not at all," Wall said when asked if he were considering entering this year's draft. "I'm going to school for one or two years and trying to win a national championship. I promised my mom I'd go to college and that if I left early I'd come back and graduate."

Please, no more posts on Wall and the 2009 NBA draft.

[BlueinBlo]

Can we let the Wall-NBA rumors die now. He never even considered it. It was just another example of the media frenzy over this guy.

From today's RIVALS.com article...

Wall also refuted speculation that he might test the NBA collective bargaining agreement and enter the 2009 draft as a 19-year-old fifth-year high school student.

"No, not at all," Wall said when asked if he were considering entering this year's draft. "I'm going to school for one or two years and trying to win a national championship. I promised my mom I'd go to college and that if I left early I'd come back and graduate."

Please, no more posts on Wall and the 2009 NBA draft.

How proud of would see be if her son graduated from Duke. Come on Momma, Duke is too good for your son to pass up. It sounds like she has a huge influence on her son, hopefully she knows how much better Duke is over the other choices especially UNC.

[Devilsfan]

Hope she's wise enough to realize the benefits for her son by attending Duke.

[geraldsneighbor]

I can't wait for Wall's press conference. I can see him having 9 hats sitting on the table in front of him. He than eliminates 4 hats and says thats all for now. The next press conference he eliminates 2 hats. Than his third press conference sometime in mid-July he picks a school. It'll be on ESPN in HD where available for us to all enjoy.

This John Wall is quite the showman it seems.

[ice-9]

C'mon guys, let's give the kid a break. Several posters here have insinuated/implied/theorized that John Wall is some kind of sinister, master puppeteer manipulating and controlling everyone.

Sure, that's possible, but isn't it more likely that he's just a confused 19 year old kid spoiled with many great options?

I sympathize with the guy because I'm the type who applied to 12 colleges, test drove 6 cars, and read hundreds of reviews before settling on a computer. Maybe he's just the type of kid who wants to keep his options open and study each path carefully. Absolutely nothing wrong with that, and I think it's harsh to imply that Wall is some kind of evil genius playing sides off against one another in a greedy quest for fame and fortune. (As if none of us want any of THAT right? Pass on the obscurity and poverty, I'd like some!)

If Wall comes to Duke, GREAT, welcome aboard and let's win some championships! But if he chooses to go elsewhere, let's not sulk and pretend we never wanted him in the first place. Let's wish the young man luck in whatever he decides, whenever that may be.

[NYDukie]

I can't wait for Wall's press conference. I can see him having 9 hats sitting on the table in front of him. He than eliminates 4 hats and says thats all for now. The next press conference he eliminates 2 hats. Than his third press conference sometime in mid-July he picks a school. It'll be on ESPN in HD where available for us to all enjoy.

This John Wall is quite the showman it seems.

Just curious but does anyone know if Wall happens to decide to challenge the NBA ruling regarding his 5th year of eligibility at 19 years of age and applies for the draft by April 26, can he still sign with a school after the May 20th deadline to sign with a school if his challenge is denied by the NBA subsequent to the May 20th deadline? I seem to remember a scenario a few years ago of player's situation when H.S. seniors could still declare for the draft, in which a player signed over the summer with a school after he was not drafted. I realize the facts are a bit different from Wall's but given Wall's potential options, could he play the NBA card if he chooses to and still be able to sign with a school in June/July if the NBA would to deny him from being draft eligible?

My fear is that this could be possible and potentially drag on another two months and get us up to 2500 posts on J Wall...LOL I understand he has every right to do what he feels best for him and his family but I can even see this becoming a bigger circus if this above scenario is possible? Please verify if this possible and thanks for the info up front!!!

[Kedsy]

Just curious but does anyone know if Wall happens to decide to challenge the NBA ruling regarding his 5th year of eligibility at 19 years of age and applies for the draft by April 26, can he still sign with a school after the May 20th deadline to sign with a school if his challenge is denied by the NBA subsequent to the May 20th deadline?

I know the "spring signing period" runs until May 20th, but what happens if a player doesn't sign with anyone before that date? I can't imagine they can keep him from attending college, if a school will accept him, and they shouldn't be able to keep him from playing on the basketball team because I doubt, for example, they choose the walk-ons by May 20 the previous year. Can they prevent him from getting a scholarship? Is that what happens?

[Chicago 1995]

I know the "spring signing period" runs until May 20th, but what happens if a player doesn't sign with anyone before that date? I can't imagine they can keep him from attending college, if a school will accept him, and they shouldn't be able to keep him from playing on the basketball team because I doubt, for example, they choose the walk-ons by May 20 the previous year. Can they prevent him from getting a scholarship? Is that what happens?

Who is "they?" The group that administers the LOI is separate and independant from the NCAA. You don't have to sign at all to accept an athletic scholarship. Most players do, but it's not a requirement.

Smaller schools continue to offer kids and get commitments well into the summer.

Wall doesn't have to do anything, really, until it comes time for registration to close, I don't think.

[mr shadow 008]

hi everybody according to this atricle wall has said he will not test nba http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=538649 (http://http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=538649)

[turnandburn55]

Let's wish the young man luck in whatever he decides, whenever that may be.

Unless, of course, he goes down the wrong side of 15-501... :D

[BD80]

Unless, of course, he goes down the wrong side of 15-501... :D

Isn't 15-501 the road to ....


H E L L ?????

[turnandburn55]

Isn't 15-501 the road to ....


H E L L ?????

Excellent 999th post, kind sir!!

[Kedsy]

Who is "they?" The group that administers the LOI is separate and independant from the NCAA. You don't have to sign at all to accept an athletic scholarship. Most players do, but it's not a requirement.

Smaller schools continue to offer kids and get commitments well into the summer.

Wall doesn't have to do anything, really, until it comes time for registration to close, I don't think.

Well, that's what I thought, but why does every article say the "spring signing period" starts on April 15 and ends on May 20? If it "ends" there must be some ramification, right?

[JasonEvans]

Well, that's what I thought, but why does every article say the "spring signing period" starts on April 15 and ends on May 20? If it "ends" there must be some ramification, right?

The only ramification is that you cannot sign a LOI after that date. LOI's must be signed within a certain window. A player without a signed LOI can still attend the school in question and can still get a scholarship.

Frankly, I don't know why anyone signs an LOI. It binds you to the school in a way that is beneficial to them but not to you.

-Jason

[-jk]

Frankly, I don't know why anyone signs an LOI. It binds you to the school in a way that is beneficial to them but not to you.

-Jason

In theory, the other schools stop pestering you after you sign. And it probably works most of the time.

-jk

[BD80]

Where there's smoke - there's fire.

Where's there's Vacaro - there a stench.

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6271764/14538408


... sources have confirmed to CBSSports.com that [Wall] began high school in August 2004, meaning Wall should've graduated in May 2008, i.e., before this NBA season began. In other words, if Wall applied for the draft the NBA might really have to approve his application, and even if the organization initially fought Wall's inclusion industry sources believe there isn't a decent attorney who couldn't win a lawsuit based on the ambiguity of the rule.

Worse, Vacarro and pro scouts will be decending upon Saturday's Jordan Brand Classic:


Vaccaro said he has spoken with "a number" of NBA scouts in the past three days.

"They've all told me (Wall) would go in the top eight," Vaccaro said. "Nobody has said he'd go lower than eight." ...

"Somebody from every lottery team will be [at the Jordan Brand Classic]," Vaccaro said. "There is no question in my mind."

...The eighth pick in this NBA Draft will receive a guaranteed two-year contract worth roughly $4.3 million

[JasonEvans]

I actually sorta hope Wall figures out a way around the NBA draft rule and shows the system to be "broken." If that happens, it will surely force the NBA and the PA to reach a new agreement that addresses the early entry situation in a smarter fashion.

I implore them-- go to a baseball model! If kids want to turn pro and have no interest in getting an education, take them directly into the pros out of high school. But, if they go to college at all, leave them alone for 3 years so they can develop as players and get real progress towards graduation.

--Jason "my hopes are 1) Wall comes to Duke or 2) Wall goes to the NBA-- there can be no other option ;) " Evans

[Vincetaylor]

Wall going pro wouldn't be such a bad thing at this point. It would just end this whole ridiculous process once and for all. Wall should be an NBA player, not a one year college player. Hopefully, this will bring attention to how dumb the current rules are regarding a high school kids eligilibility for the NBA. The current rule is great for the NBA, but a big problem for college. Can you imagine being a college coach having to recruit a guy who will only be around for one year? Let guys go straight from high school(18 age requirement) and if a guy decides to go to college he shouldn't be allowed to enter the draft until what would be the end of his 2nd year in college, whether he stays in college that whole time or not.

[Vincetaylor]

Sorry Jason. I didn't see your response until after I submitted mine. I totally agree with you though.

[fan345678]

The eighth pick in this NBA Draft will receive a guaranteed two-year contract worth roughly $4.3 million

How much would he make at USC?

[HK Dukie]

Read near the bottom of the article most recently linked on the DBR frontpage with AAU coach Clifton talking about two great situations with two really great coaches, two really good schools, two really strong traditions BUT one will allow him more easily to go pro after one year but that situation isn't as attractive as the other one if you decide on two plus years. Sounds like if he's one and done he's leaning Kentucky and if he's two plus because of his promise to his dad and mom to go to college then he's leaning Duke.

Based on the talk I'm not sure our odds are great but I do think John has his head screwed on straight. He is doing the absolute right thing for his career. Personally I think Duke is best for that, IMHO, but at least our early summer is kept interesting folks...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/luke_winn/04/16/wall/

[BD80]

How much would he make at USC?

There is no cap, (institutional) control, nor conscience at USC. The sky's the limit!

Ironic, but a recruit should have an agent before talking to USC! You would want to maximize not only the cash to be received, but also the goods and services to be received by the recruit and his family. Of course, there should be a liquidated damages provision for harm to the recruit's image if (when) USC is hit with sanctions and ineligible for post-season play, thus reducing the recruit's exposure on national TV. I could see the liquidated damages clause being linked to his draft position - if he is top 10 there was no damage, if he is lower, the damage would be the difference between his contract and the contract of the #10 pick.

How much money did USC make from Reggie Bush and OJ Mayo? It is interesting to look at this from a real-world business point of view. Coaches making millions of dollars per year have very pecuniary interests in these athletes. We will see how things appear when viewed through the NCAA looking glass, once the Bush/Mayo scandal report is issued.

[BD80]

... Sounds like if he's one and done he's leaning Kentucky and if he's two plus because of his promise to his dad and mom to go to college then he's leaning Duke. ...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/luke_winn/04/16/wall/

Recruiting doesn't build character, it reveals it.

The more of John Wall we are allowed to see, the more I like him as a person. And, frankly, Brian Clifton too.

I don't think this is just PR fluff, or else Clifton would have been more restrained when discussing cerlina. It sounds like Clifton is getting the coaches to answer questions that pertain to John's future, rather than to just allow the likes of Billy the kid blow sunshine up his skirt. It would be really interesting to sit down with John and Brain and listen as they weigh the various opportunities. Sounds like a pretty darned good book to write.

[watzone]

Recruiting doesn't build character, it reveals it.

The more of John Wall we are allowed to see, the more I like him as a person. And, frankly, Brian Clifton too.

I don't think this is just PR fluff, or else Clifton would have been more restrained when discussing cerlina. It sounds like Clifton is getting the coaches to answer questions that pertain to John's future, rather than to just allow the likes of Billy the kid blow sunshine up his skirt. It would be really interesting to sit down with John and Brain and listen as they weigh the various opportunities. Sounds like a pretty darned good book to write.

One must keep in mind that they would have liked Wall all along one they found out the facts instead of listening to passed on internet rumblings about his character or desires.

Even the national media ran with the Wall and NBA garbage, despite the fact that one simple phone call or a visit to the NBA or NCAA website would clearly state that Wall was no eligible for the jump.

Anybody listening to internet message board rumors of any kind should simply subscribe to the National Enquirer. I have never seen so many bad or false rumors about any player recruitment's since covering the subject matter.

Clifton and Beckwith were lumped together and they are two very different individuals whether you call them handlers or not. I was even guilty of believing certain things until I uncovered the facts, but I never ran with them as some have done.

Good job by Luke Winn.

[CMS2478]

Read near the bottom of the article most recently linked on the DBR frontpage with AAU coach Clifton talking about two great situations with two really great coaches, two really good schools, two really strong traditions BUT one will allow him more easily to go pro after one year but that situation isn't as attractive as the other one if you decide on two plus years. Sounds like if he's one and done he's leaning Kentucky and if he's two plus because of his promise to his dad and mom to go to college then he's leaning Duke.

Based on the talk I'm not sure our odds are great but I do think John has his head screwed on straight. He is doing the absolute right thing for his career. Personally I think Duke is best for that, IMHO, but at least our early summer is kept interesting folks...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/luke_winn/04/16/wall/

Which is why I say he goes to UK. If he's one and done? I think if we are honest we all know the answer to that......which is why I still think he ends up at UK.

[dgoore97]

I don't have anything against Clifton, and i think Wall is going about this in a good methodical way.

i actually think Clifton says reasonable things, i am just not sure how it helps Wall for Clifton to be giving on the record interviews

[JG Nothing]

Anybody listening to internet message board rumors of any kind should simply subscribe to the National Enquirer. I have never seen so many bad or false rumors about any player recruitment's since covering the subject matter.


Well, the commodification of the recruitment process has not helped. Because "insider information" is sold, it leaves nonsubscribers (who are the vast majority) with only rumors and speculation.

[BlueintheFace]

Well, the commodification of the recruitment process has not helped. Because "insider information" is sold, it leaves nonsubscribers (who are the vast majority) with only rumors and speculation.

Hit the nail on the head. When you know that a class of people have appealing information that you don't about a recruit, it is human nature to do two things. 1) try to acquire the information, 2) speculate about what that information might be in the meantime based on articles you read and the opinions of others in the same situation as you (since you believe it is possible that they might actually have the information).

If there were not financially manufactured tiers of knowledge regarding recruiting, then the marketplace of ideas (so to speak) would largely lead everyone to the same truths at around the same time.

Thats just how it is. Se La Vie.

[houstondukie]

Finally some real news on John Wall. The rumors/opinions/garbage I've been reading on the internet has made me so sick to my stomach, but Luke Winn writes a very refreshing article on Wall.

The possibility of Duke landing John Wall is very real. This is so exciting! When was the last time a recruit had so much attention (not hype because Wall is the real deal)...Lebron? This would be a HUGE win for Coach K, beating out Kentucky, Kansas, North Carolina, Kansas, UCLA, Arizona, and more. I think it makes Duke "cool" again - Duke will be good for John Wall's image, and vice versa.

Some of my impressions after reading the article:

1. In the end, it seems like it will come down to Kentucky vs. Duke. Clifton seems to suggest that Kentcuky would be better suited for a one-and-done, but why can't he do that at Duke like Deng and Maggette?

2. Does this mean if Duke lands Wall, he will stay for 2 years?!?! (K. Singler, H. Barnes, and J. Wall = NC)

3. UNC has no chance (based on this article) - Clifton is like family to Wall. It will be Wall's choice in the end, but it still matters that Clifton and Roy do not get along. Clifton says this is a business decision, and there is just too much money on the line.

[jimsumner]

"K. Singler, H. Barnes, and J. Wall = NC)"


Getting a wee-bit ahead of ourselves, perhaps?

[geraldsneighbor]

"K. Singler, H. Barnes, and J. Wall = NC)"


Getting a wee-bit ahead of ourselves, perhaps?

The chances all 3 play together at the same time are about .05%. I have an equation to that figured that out.:)

[BD80]

The chances all 3 play together at the same time are about .05%. I have an equation to that figured that out.:)

Does your equation contemplate the allure of Kyle and John wanting to return to win back-to-back national championships? :)

[sagegrouse]

The chances all 3 play together at the same time are about .05%. I have an equation to that figured that out.:)

That's five chances out of ten thousand. Are you sure that is what you meant?

sagegours

[Kedsy]

That's five chances out of ten thousand. Are you sure that is what you meant?

sagegours

Why, do you think that's too high?

Personally, based on no inside information whatsowever, I would rate the chance of the three of them playing together (in college) as significantly worse than that.

[mgtr]

5 chances in 10,000 -- why that is just about no chance at all. About as likely as my going out and buying a new Corvette this year -- no, wait a moment, I did that. OK, it is just about as likely as my filing my tax return on time this year -- no, wait a moment, I did that. Gee, I guess 5 chances in 10,000 is really pretty likely!:D

[Greg_Newton]

I figure everyone is tired of reading all of these insightful, searching articles on John Wall's decision making process every day, so I figured I would post a terrible one. This was posted today (after his clear dismissal of any NBA talk), and the author estimates the combined odds of him going to either Duke or UK as 15%, compared with the combined odds of him going to Florida/Carolina/NBA as 80%. They must be using the equation from a few posts down...

Enjoy!

http://www.maxpreps.com/news/article.aspx?articleid=1cd540bd-a12a-de11-a973-001cc494dda6

[CameronCrazy'11]

Singler stays for Senior year: 50%
Barnes comes to Duke: 70%
Wall comes to Duke: 50%
Wall stays for a second year at Duke: 5%

Do some magic/ math and

Chances of Singler, Barnes, and Wall on the same team are about: 0.9%

Much better than .05%, but still pretty slim

[stickdog]

Wall speaks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LR8NSQllaVQ)

[umdukie]

I think it's important to note that John didn't even MENTION Kentucky when he gave his initial list of schools in that video interview. He also backed away from properly answering the question regarding whether he was considering Kentucky seriously after the Calipari/personnel switches.

He also mentions that he wants to go to a school where he can "win" and has "great academics".

He also seems skeptical about UNC recruiting him and Clifton's relationship with Williams would suggest that's not an option right now.

Wall also makes it clear that his mother's health is important to him and she could travel but it would be "tough for her".

This seems like a no-brainer to me. I'm feeling very, very optimistic. Anyone think that if Meeks and/or Patterson enter the draft, it would ice the deal for Duke?:D

[UrinalCake]

The chances all 3 play together at the same time are about .05%. I have an equation to that figured that out.:)

So, you're saying there's a chance!

[UrinalCake]

Wall speaks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LR8NSQllaVQ)

Thanks for the link. I noticed that he is very well-spoken for a high-school kid.

[dukelifer]

Wall speaks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LR8NSQllaVQ)

He says here that UNC is not on his list (around 1:50 on the clip)

[DukieBoy]

3. UNC has no chance (based on this article) - Clifton is like family to Wall. It will be Wall's choice in the end, but it still matters that Clifton and Roy do not get along. Clifton says this is a business decision, and there is just too much money on the line.

Does that give Duke an advantage because Wall would want to beat Roy since Clifton doesn't like him? I would think that if you had a shot to get back at someone you don't like in this way (going to a rival school), you would greatly consider. I know this isn't going to be a major factory, but you have to think it's going to factor in somewhere.

[Smitty1911]

Wall speaks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LR8NSQllaVQ)

I have to say, this interview is quite different from what I expected after reading the negative things about his attitude/character. He seems like a relatively grounded young man, given all the hype surrounding him. I particularly liked his repeated comment about honoring his promise to his dad to attend college. I can't imagine what this kid is going through with so many reporters, coaches, boosters, fans, etc. pushing and pulling him in every direction.

I was surprised to hear that he still has to take the SAT and ACT. Is he currently eligible? If not, our rationale for not offering Bledsoe is a little shaky. Anyway, I wish Wall well and hope he makes the right decision for him (please Duke, please Duke!!). :D That said, I would still be surprised if he doesn't go to UK. It sounds like we'll have a little more info in the next few days.

And I'm thrilled to finally "contribute" to this historic thread. :p

[_Gary]

Wall speaks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LR8NSQllaVQ)

FWIW, I too was encouraged by the interview. Seems like a very grounded kid who has his priorities straight. Hope he and his family see Duke as being the best fit for him.

[TheBrianZoubekExperience]

The Draft Express interview is fairly encouraging in that he seems to say pretty clearly that at least at this point hes not thinking about UNC at all or looking towards the NBA. Wall also mentions he's not even sure if hes going to visit Florida. He mentioned us third so looks like we're still pretty much in it with Memphis and Kansas.

[Truth]

I particularly liked his repeated comment about honoring his promise to his dad to attend college.


I am unsure how much weight this promise carries in the grand scheme of Wall's decision. Is this promise moreso a response by Wall intended to put the NBA question to bed? Would the promise to his father to "attend" college be kept if Wall attended for only one-year?

I do not think anyone anticipates John Wall to spend 3 or 4 years in college and graduate prior to heading to the NBA. Hopefully, he would elect to finish up coursework after life in the NBA.

[Kedsy]

Singler stays for Senior year: 50%
Barnes comes to Duke: 70%
Wall comes to Duke: 50%
Wall stays for a second year at Duke: 5%

Do some magic/ math and

Chances of Singler, Barnes, and Wall on the same team are about: 0.9%

Much better than .05%, but still pretty slim

Well, this is sort of a silly exercise because you're pulling numbers entirely out of thin air, but if you see it like this:

Singler stays for senior year: 20%
Barnes comes to Duke: 50%
Wall comes to Duke: 20%
Wall stays for 2nd year: 1%

then the total comes out to 0.02%, and the worse part is even those revised percentages seem high to me.

So I don't think we should talk about this any more.

[G man]

That was a great interview. We sounded the strongest out of all those schools with maybe the exception of kansas which is not a contender because of returning players. I agree with everyone he seems very well spoken. I was very pleased did not seem like everything we have heard about him!!!!!! Come dunk on people for us.

[roywhite]

Well, this is sort of a silly exercise because you're pulling numbers entirely out of thin air, but if you see it like this:

Singler stays for senior year: 20%
Barnes comes to Duke: 50%
Wall comes to Duke: 20%
Wall stays for 2nd year: 1%

then the total comes out to 0.02%, and the worse part is even those revised percentages seem high to me.

So I don't think we should talk about this any more.

Well, maybe Barnes, Wall and Singler end up on the 2016 or 2020 USA Olympic team? :)

I think I'd "settle" for having them on Duke teams, even if not simultaneously. :)

[Kedsy]

I think I'd "settle" for having them on Duke teams, even if not simultaneously. :)

You and me both.

[Bluedog]

I am unsure how much weight this promise carries in the grand scheme of Wall's decision. Is this promise moreso a response by Wall intended to put the NBA question to bed? Would the promise to his father to "attend" college be kept if Wall attended for only one-year?

I do not think anyone anticipates John Wall to spend 3 or 4 years in college and graduate prior to heading to the NBA. Hopefully, he would elect to finish up coursework after life in the NBA.

He has said in the past that he plans to go back to college and get his degree if he elects to go to the NBA after a season or two since that was the promise. I can't seem to find the quote right now....but I definitely remember him mentioning it in the past.

Yeah, I definitely found that DraftExpress interview to be positive. Sounded like a good, grounded kid who just wants to weight all his options and do what's best for his future. I was also surprised to hear that he's still taking the ACT and SAT; I had thought he already qualified. Maybe he just wants to increase his scores. :D

It sounds like he was going to cut his college choices to 3 or 4 next week, so we'll know more then I guess.

[NSDukeFan]

Well, this is sort of a silly exercise because you're pulling numbers entirely out of thin air, but if you see it like this:

Singler stays for senior year: 20%
Barnes comes to Duke: 50%
Wall comes to Duke: 20%
Wall stays for 2nd year: 1%

then the total comes out to 0.02%, and the worse part is even those revised percentages seem high to me.

So I don't think we should talk about this any more.

I agree this is a silly exercise, but would the more likely, but not very likely scenario, in which we are a favorite for the national championship be:

Singler stays for junior year: 95%
Henderson stays for senior year: 20%
Wall comes to Duke: 20%

This is about a 4% chance, which would be much higher than any of the other scenarios and would offer, I think, a better chance at a championship. I have no insider knowledge, so grabbed those numbers based on Kyle saying he is staying, and not very educated guesses at G's chances of staying (crossing my fingers) and Wall picking Duke ahead of the other 8 schools on his list.
Math is fun.

[geraldsneighbor]

I agree this is a silly exercise, but would the more likely, but not very likely scenario, in which we are a favorite for the national championship be:

Singler stays for junior year: 95%
Henderson stays for senior year: 20%
Wall comes to Duke: 20%

This is about a 4% chance, which would be much higher than any of the other scenarios and would offer, I think, a better chance at a championship. I have no insider knowledge, so grabbed those numbers based on Kyle saying he is staying, and not very educated guesses at G's chances of staying (crossing my fingers) and Wall picking Duke ahead of the other 8 schools on his list.
Math is fun.


I have started quite the trend. I am setting the current odds: +/- 2% margin of error
Singler returns: 97.25%
Henderson returns: 15.02%
Wall enters: 12%
Bledsoe comes is offered: 78%

[HK Dukie]

Not sure if you guys caught it on the youtube interview with Wall but he says there is a 50/50 chance of staying in state (that would NC). Given UNC is essentially out, and NCS still low on the list that would get us close to 50%.

I still think its Kentucky then Duke. But we are right there based on what he said in that interview and what his AAU coach said. These are better odds than I thought a few weeks ago. I usually don't get all into checking out the recruiting battles because I don't want to get emotionally invested in players who aren't part of the family. But this recruiting battle has been that one exception for me. I'm excited.

[moonpie23]

when you face big decisions, with more than a couple of options, sometimes it comes to sort of, MAKING the decision, and then seeing how it feels before you share it with others.

I think if john wall decided on duke, reflecting on that would be a very positive feeling for him. now that might be wishful thinking on MY part, but......john has a tremendous amount of talent. he's GOING to do well no matter what his decision is.......would it be safe to say that there would be no WRONG decision for him regardless? (save for something odd happening)


i can't see a downside for him coming to duke....

[SushiChef]

I have started quite the trend. I am setting the current odds: +/- 2% margin of error
Singler returns: 97.25%
Henderson returns: 15.02%
Wall enters: 12%
Bledsoe comes is offered: 78%

You guys are all assuming that these are independent events. I don't believe that is the case. If you were to add some correlation into the model, the overall probability could be much higher. For example if Henderson returns, the probability that Wall comes to Duke may go up.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Given UNC is essentially out, and NCS still low on the list that would get us close to 50%.


It didn't come across to me in the interview as UNC being "out" of the running. Didn't he just say that UNC was not really on his list because Roy had not contacted him since before the title game and he "wasn't sure where they were at?" He'd know if UNC was not recruiting him.
To me that sounds like could be leaving out hope that Roy will contact him.
I think Roy is out of scholarships until Ellington or Lawson actually declare to free one up, right?

If so, he could still get the call from UNC, after somebody declares, and if an offer is put on the table, it sounded to me like he would seriously consider UNC then.

Soo...........

Lawson leaves, Ellington decides to stay one more. Wall sees potential lineup of Wall,Ellington,Henson,Davis, and Thompson along with Zeller Ginyard, Drew, Graves ,Strickland off the bench.

"Yo, count me in coach" he says "we can dominate another title with this team. I want a ring!"

I hope there are implosion detectors working around here if that happens....:)

[brsett]

If Ellington stays, UNC has to redshirt a frosh to make space for Wall. No, both have to leave for UNC to have space for Wall. Honestly, both are gone, and I expect Wall will be at UNC or UK next year.

[SupaDave]

Let's keep it on John Wall please. I can't wait to see tonight's game. Hope someone goes and does a review.

[BlueinBlo]

His decision is still a far away. He is not even going to Miami till this week then he said he is going to take 2 weeks to sit down and look at his choices then he is going to make in those next couple weeks. Man, he just loves the spot light on him.

[FireOgilvie]

His decision is still a far away. He is not even going to Miami till this week then he said he is going to take 2 weeks to sit down and look at his choices then he is going to make in those next couple weeks. Man, he just loves the spot light on him.

It's smart for a few reasons. One, he will be able to see who declares for the NBA and who stays or tests the waters. Two, he will know where the other uncommitted recruits end up. Three, he has an extra spotlight on him and more time to get his name thrown out there. I don't blame him for waiting. Think about if he had recruited a year ago to Memphis... we'd be going through the same thing anyway.

[DukieBoy]

Did Wall ever have an official visit to Duke. I thought he did, but I was reading a story about him on ESPN and it didn't said he had visited Duke.

[loran16]

Did Wall ever have an official visit to Duke. I thought he did, but I was reading a story about him on ESPN and it didn't said he had visited Duke.

In essence no. I forget how the system works, but he never took an "official visit" to Duke....but he did come on campus and meet with Coach K.

So for all important matters, he visited duke. He just never took "an official visit."

[studdlee10]

If Ellington stays, UNC has to redshirt a frosh to make space for Wall. No, both have to leave for UNC to have space for Wall. Honestly, both are gone, and I expect Wall will be at UNC or UK next year.

Wall will not be at UNC next year. UK is the likely choice, but he won't be at UNC.

[G man]

After everything that has transpired this weekend I have come to the conclusion that things are looking up. I feel like it is a two horse race these days. Either us or Kentucky. I do not want to loose another recruiting battle to UK!

[Hancock 4 Duke]

Wall will not be at UNC next year. UK is the likely choice, but he won't be at UNC.

Very optimistic. I don't think he will go to UNC either, I mean, it's not like they were National Champions or anything...:)

[BlueintheFace]

There is ONE possibility we haven' discussed yet. Henderson transfers to Carolina and Wall signs on at Chapel Hill too. It could happen ladies and gents.

[johaad]

There is ONE possibility we haven' discussed yet. Henderson transfers to Carolina and Wall signs on at Chapel Hill too. It could happen ladies and gents.

Ugh, I threw up a little.

[BlueinBlo]

There is ONE possibility we haven' discussed yet. Henderson transfers to Carolina and Wall signs on at Chapel Hill too. It could happen ladies and gents.
Well at least they wouldn't play together.

[Indoor66]

Well at least they wouldn't play together.

Yeah, that way G can delay the NBA draft until 2011!

[shoutingncu]

Well at least they wouldn't play together.

Wall has said "one or two years" of college. That could be the deciding factor, after all... playing with redshirt senior G and freshman Harrison. All under assistant coach Frasor. Come on, who wouldn't want that?

[turnandburn55]

There is ONE possibility we haven' discussed yet. Henderson transfers to Carolina and Wall signs on at Chapel Hill too. It could happen ladies and gents.

Now THAT's funny :)

[dubayuw]

Xavier and C.J. Henry have decided to skip their UK visit this weekend and instead plan to announce their decision according to rivals.com. It sounds like they are going to Kansas but who knows:confused:. How much affect to you think this will have on Wall and his decision.

[UrinalCake]

Xavier and C.J. Henry have decided to skip their UK visit this weekend and instead plan to announce their decision according to rivals.com. It sounds like they are going to Kansas but who knows:confused:. How much affect to you think this will have on Wall and his decision.

Wow, if this happens then Kansas will be a beast next year, with or without Wall.

[BD80]

Xavier and C.J. Henry have decided to skip their UK visit this weekend and instead plan to announce their decision according to rivals.com. It sounds like they are going to Kansas but who knows:confused:. How much affect to you think this will have on Wall and his decision.

I think the return of rising senior PG Sherron Collins rules out Wall going to KU. Wall wouldn't be running the point, and with Xavier Henry there he isn't guaranteed to start at the 2 or to to get all the PT he might want.

At Kentucky and at Duke he would be walking into the starting PG spot.

[Skitzle]

Xavier and C.J. Henry have decided to skip their UK visit this weekend and instead plan to announce their decision according to rivals.com. It sounds like they are going to Kansas but who knows:confused:. How much affect to you think this will have on Wall and his decision.

If it sounds like it's made up, and it reads like it's made up, it's probably made up.

http://www.zagsblog.com/2009/04/20/henrys-to-visit-kentucky-this-weekend/

[FireOgilvie]

If it sounds like it's made up, and it reads like it's made up, it's probably made up.

http://www.zagsblog.com/2009/04/20/henrys-to-visit-kentucky-this-weekend/

I wouldn't say it was "made up." It says:

"Carl had initially told reporters the boys would not visit and would announce Wednesday among Kansas, Kentucky and Memphis."

[verga]

according to his father Xavier will visit UK along with his bother. as the world turns.

[DukieBoy]

Who knew one boy could send this message board into complete obsession mode. :D

[-jk]

Who knew one boy could send this message board into complete obsession mode. :D

Well, anyone who's watched us obsess over Patterson or Monroe. We have a long, inglorious history of obsessing...

-jk

[DownEastDevil]

On 850 the Buzz Blog it talks about Billy Donovan in town to see Wall but it also said Wall will make a visit to UNC before he goes to Miami. If this is true I think the Heels are still in play hard and heavy, unfortunatly.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Does anyone have any concrete info on Wall? The latest I heard, he is not going to UNC. Please don't provide what you think but rather what you know. I, as I'm sure many others, would really appreciate that.

[-jk]

Does anyone have any concrete info on Wall? The latest I heard, he is not going to UNC. Please don't provide what you think but rather what you know. I, as I'm sure many others, would really appreciate that.

I'll bite: how do you "know" he's not going to UNC?

-jk

[flyingdutchdevil]

I'll bite: how do you "know" he's not going to UNC?

-jk

Read it (and not from here) from a quote that Wall said so I assume it's semi-legit. The majority of what I've read here is that he probably won't go to Kansas bc of Collins, etc (that is pure educated speculation, not what Wall has said himself).

Just wondering if there is anything new, like where he is leaning, his thoughts (especially on Duke)...you know, stuff like that

[moonpie23]

Read it (and not from here) from a quote that Wall said so I assume it's semi-legit.

link?

[Bluedog]

Read it (and not from here) from a quote that Wall said so I assume it's semi-legit.


link?

Well, as of April 16, Wall did say "Carolina’s not really on my list. I talked to Roy [Williams] before he went to the Final Four and I haven’t talked to him since then so I don’t know where that’s going."

http://www.zagsblog.com/2009/04/16/wall-not-thinking-nba-will-narrow-list-next-week/

That could have changed though....We know how fickle recruits can be. But as of a week ago, it sounded like there was little to no chance he'd go to UNC. This article also says (and he said it in the DraftExpress interview on video): “I gotta take the SAT May 4,” Wall said. “Once that’s over I will qualify for college.” So, it seems bizarre that the rationale (at least by many on this site) for not giving Bledsoe a scholarship is academic, when Wall himself hasn't even qualified for NCAA competition yet. I find it VERY unlikely that he hasn't already taken the SAT/ACT at least once, so he clearly was below the NCAA minimum on the first try if that was the case. With his crazy business basketball schedule, though, I suppose it's possible he'd wait until the VERY last minute to take the test.

[yancem]

This article also says (and he said it in the DraftExpress interview on video): “I gotta take the SAT May 4,” Wall said. “Once that’s over I will qualify for college.” So, it seems bizarre that the rationale (at least by many on this site) for not giving Bledsoe a scholarship is academic, when Wall himself hasn't even qualified for NCAA competition yet. I find it VERY unlikely that he hasn't already taken the SAT/ACT at least once, so he clearly was below the NCAA minimum on the first try if that was the case. With his crazy business basketball schedule, though, I suppose it's possible he'd wait until the VERY last minute to take the test.

I don't think that you can make the assumption that he has already taken the SAT/ACT. Also, it is my understanding that the required minimums for the standardized test are floating depending on GPA. It sounds like Bledsoe's GPA is on the low side. So if Wall's GPA is higher, which I think that they are, there would be less pressure on his SAT/ACT scores.

[Bluedog]

I don't think that you can make the assumption that he has already taken the SAT/ACT.

True, can't assume anything. Just would find it strange that somebody would wait til last minute so that they can't take it again if they don't pass.


Also, it is my understanding that the required minimums for the standardized test are floating depending on GPA.

Yep, that's correct:

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/resources/file/eb1afe0c529230b/Quick_Reference_Sheet_for_IE_Standards-5-2-08.pdf?MOD=AJPERES


It sounds like Bledsoe's GPA is on the low side. So if Wall's GPA is higher, which I think that they are, there would be less pressure on his SAT/ACT scores.

No point to rehash potential future players' GPA/ACT, but Wall's GPA allows him to qualify with an ACT of 1.75 cumulative points lower than Bledsoe and an SAT score of Math+Verbal 80 points lower than Bledsoe. So, yeah, that's true. Slightly less pressure on Wall.

[rotogod00]

from chad ford's current ESPN chat:

"Chad Ford: (1:36 PM ET ) And by the way, I know Wall has publicly said that he won't be declaring for the draft. But l still wouldn't be shocked to see his name in the draft. They've been looking into it and the kid has yet to pass his SATs."

[InSpades]

So if you have a high enough GPA you can qualify w/ a 400 on your SATs? Wow. Seems to put a lot of emphasis on your GPA when that can vary a lot depending on your high school.

[Bluedog]

So if you have a high enough GPA you can qualify w/ a 400 on your SATs? Wow. Seems to put a lot of emphasis on your GPA when that can vary a lot depending on your high school.

And note that a 400 on the SAT is the absolute minimum score. So, yeah, if you have a 3.55 GPA in high school, you just have to show up and write you name on the SAT (and don't have to answer a single question) if you just want to meet the NCAA eligibility requirements.

[BlueintheFace]

I keep forgetting that Wall doesn't have the SAT scores yet to go to college.

[geraldsneighbor]

Has he not taken the SAT or has he not passed? Either way this is surprising being it isn't very difficult.

[rotogod00]

Has he not taken the SAT or has he not passed? Either way this is surprising being it isn't very difficult.

ford said he hasn't passed them

[JasonEvans]

So if you have a high enough GPA you can qualify w/ a 400 on your SATs? Wow. Seems to put a lot of emphasis on your GPA when that can vary a lot depending on your high school.

Are you implying something about the high academic standards of Word of God Christian Academy?

Horror!!!!

--Jason "I keed, I keed!" Evans

[JG Nothing]

from chad ford's current ESPN chat:

"Chad Ford: (1:36 PM ET ) And by the way, I know Wall has publicly said that he won't be declaring for the draft. But l still wouldn't be shocked to see his name in the draft. They've been looking into it and the kid has yet to pass his SATs."

So, with just four months remaining until the start of the 2009-2010 academic year, neither of our point guard prospects have met the minimum NCAA qualifications? Nice.

[InSpades]

Are you implying something about the high academic standards of Word of God Christian Academy?

Horror!!!!

--Jason "I keed, I keed!" Evans

It sounds very reputable to me :).

The difference between needing say a 500 or a 900 on your SAT is like night and day. The division II standards seem much more sane.

[gvtucker]

I keep forgetting that Wall doesn't have the SAT scores yet to go to college.

Oh, he can go to college. He just can't go to a division 1 college on a basketball scholarship.

[TaiAdmiral]

News:

According to Kentucky Sports Radio, John Wall is visiting Duke tomorrow:
http://new.kentuckysportsradio.com/?p=17875

If this is true...I'm afraid they may have picked a bad day...tomorrow is LDOC. Debauchery central.

[pfrduke]

News:

According to Kentucky Sports Radio, John Wall is visiting Duke tomorrow:
http://new.kentuckysportsradio.com/?p=17875

If this is true...I'm afraid they may have picked a bad day...tomorrow is LDOC. Debauchery central.

And that's bad because . . . ?

[DukieBoy]

News:

According to Kentucky Sports Radio, John Wall is visiting Duke tomorrow:
http://new.kentuckysportsradio.com/?p=17875

If this is true...I'm afraid they may have picked a bad day...tomorrow is LDOC. Debauchery central.

Excuse me for not knowing the lingo, but what exactly is LDOC

[TaiAdmiral]

LDOC=Last Day of Classes

It's also the biggest party of the school year at Duke. The beer flows freely on the quad, there are multiple bands performing, free food, etc etc. This year, since LDOC falls on Earth Day, everything is "green"....too bad this caused the planning committee to run $1500 over their budget. :rolleyes:

[DukieBoy]

LDOC=Last Day of Classes

It's also the biggest party of the school year at Duke. The beer flows freely on the quad, there are multiple bands performing, free food, etc etc. This year, since LDOC falls on Earth Day, everything is "green"....too bad this caused the planning committee to run $1500 over their budget. :rolleyes:

Well then this could go two ways.

One - Wall sees how fun Duke can be, how crazy the Camerons can be, and what college life is like, and commits to Duke.

Two - Wall is turned away by the amount of partying and commits to UK.

Either way, it's out of our hands now.

[FireOgilvie]

LDOC=Last Day of Classes

It's also the biggest party of the school year at Duke. The beer flows freely on the quad, there are multiple bands performing, free food, etc etc. This year, since LDOC falls on Earth Day, everything is "green"....too bad this caused the planning committee to run $1500 over their budget. :rolleyes:

15 THOUSAND.

I wish I could go back for LDOC.

[Ian]

I don't get it.

I thought the reason we were holding off on offering Bledsoe was that he doesn't have qualifying scores, so how come we can offer Wall without a qualifying score?

[SilkyJ]

Well then this could go two ways.

One - Wall sees how fun Duke can be, how crazy the Camerons can be, and what college life is like, and commits to Duke.

Two - Wall is turned away by the amount of partying and commits to UK.

Either way, it's out of our hands now.

Yes, it could one of those two ways, but there are several other options and the smart money is on neither one of the two options occuring, at least immediately. He is clearly not to going to make a rash decision as he has taken his time and been very deliberate, and all signs from his camp are that he will continue to take his time. Not to mention, the college life aspect has little to do with his decision I bet. He and his camp have made it very clear this is a "business decision" and it will be much more about how he fits in with the program and how he can develop his game to be more NBA ready. College partying is college partying whether its here, UK, Kansas, or any of the other places, so I dont think it makes much of a difference.


I don't get it.

I thought the reason we were holding off on offering Bledsoe was that he doesn't have qualifying scores, so how come we can offer Wall without a qualifying score?

Well John Wall is arguably the best player in the country and has an NBA ready body and game. Eric Bledsoe projects as a good college point guard. You do the math.

[BlueintheFace]

You do the math.

...because John Wall and Eric bledsoe can't (Ziiiiing)

jk folks, I missed a mean/median/mode question on that stupid test... (heading self in head)

[BD80]

...(heading self in head)

They can probably type

[SilkyJ]

How desparate has UK come? Well if hiring the shady man himself wasn't enough, at least one fan wants Cal to "call in his big guns" whom he refers to as "shady wes"

See comment #17:

http://new.kentuckysportsradio.com/?p=17875


...because John Wall and Eric bledsoe can't (Ziiiiing)

jk folks, I missed a mean/median/mode question on that stupid test... (heading self in head)

hey man, the highest they need to count to is 3, maybe 4 once in a season ;)

[roywhite]

The meeting seems like good news to me. Getting close to a commitment?

It wouldn't make much sense to have a face-to-face meeting with Coach K to say "hey, Duke's in the final 6...", or "thanks, Coach, I think I'll go to UK"...

[BlueintheFace]

They can probably type

English was obviously a struggle too (Double- Ziiing)

[geraldsneighbor]

How desparate has UK come? Well if hiring the shady man himself wasn't enough, at least one fan wants Cal to "call in his big guns" whom he refers to as "shady wes"

See comment #17:

http://new.kentuckysportsradio.com/?p=17875



hey man, the highest they need to count to is 3, maybe 4 once in a season ;)

So your saying I got a chance?

[DukieBoy]

How desparate has UK come? Well if hiring the shady man himself wasn't enough, at least one fan wants Cal to "call in his big guns" whom he refers to as "shady wes"

See comment #17:

http://new.kentuckysportsradio.com/?p=17875


At least they are well informed UK fans (See comment 22).

[roywhite]

http://www.850thebuzz.com/blog/?p=9258

Looks like 850 the buzz has picked up the story about Wall's visit to Duke. Posted by Bomani Jones, no less. :) Must pain him to think this could happen.

[johaad]

Sorry if this was posted but I don't think it was. This is Wall talking about the college experience. It might not mean too much but I thought it was interesting.
http://blogs.newsobserver.com/prepsnow/john-wall-wants-the-college-experience

[studdlee10]

Wall has a pretty high GPA at WOG. Unlike Bledsoe, he does not need an exceptional score to qualify, and it sounds as though John has never taken the SAT before.

To quote Zagsblog:
Wall said he plans to take the SAT May 4 and believes he is on pace to graduate May 20. He took an extra math and an extra science class this semester “just in case.”

“I gotta take the SAT May 4,” Wall said. “Once that’s over I will qualify for college.”

As for when he’ll pick a college, Clifton said: “It really could happen at any time.”


Guys, I've had the opportunity to chat with John Wall on more than one occasion. He may not be a Rhodes Scholar, but he is a well spoken and intelligent young man. Take away some of his past indiscretions and his reputation, I could easily see him being a "Duke" kid. I like that he's not tattooed from head to toe and that he address people as "sir" and "ma'am". He was the star at the JBC and he was easily the most fan friendly and accommodating young man. He will be a great ambassador to the school he chooses to attend. I am not that easily impressed, but John impressed me. I'll be af an of his, wherever he decides to go....even UNC>

[roywhite]

Guys, I've had the opportunity to chat with John Wall on more than one occasion. He may not be a Rhodes Scholar, but he is a well spoken and intelligent young man. Take away some of his past indiscretions and his reputation, I could easily see him being a "Duke" kid. I like that he's not tattooed from head to toe and that he address people as "sir" and "ma'am". He was the star at the JBC and he was easily the most fan friendly and accommodating young man. He will be a great ambassador to the school he chooses to attend. I am not that easily impressed, but John impressed me. I'll be af an of his, wherever he decides to go....even UNC>

Thanks, Studdlee...good to hear, though you lost me a little at the end. :)

He's certainly a young person with a big share of real life experiences---losing a father at a young age, developing a marvelous talent, repeating a year in school and then improving in the classroom, going through a circus of a recruitment, etc.

Watching him at the MSG game over the weekend, I had the impression he's getting tired of the recruiting process and all the attention. Can't blame him.

Hope this works out, and yeah, I agree, I'll follow his career wherever he goes, or at least most places. :)

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Thanks, Studdlee...good to hear, though you lost me a little at the end. :)

He's certainly a young person with a big share of real life experiences---losing a father at a young age, developing a marvelous talent, repeating a year in school and then improving in the classroom, going through a circus of a recruitment, etc.

Watching him at the MSG game over the weekend, I had the impression he's getting tired of the recruiting process and all the attention. Can't blame him.

Hope this works out, and yeah, I agree, I'll follow his career wherever he goes, or at least most places. :)

What you say is certainly on point, roywhite.

A little late to be taking SAT for the first time. This is a little surprising considering the amount of attention Wall's been getting about the possibility of going to college.... at least for a year.

[Duke #33]

I don't think anyone has mentioned this, but is it possible that he is unsure about Duke and he wants to visit one more time before he makes his decision to cut down his list of possible schools? In other words, is it possible he is visiting because he doesn't know if Duke is the best place for him.

[tommy]

I don't think anyone has mentioned this, but is it possible that he is unsure about Duke and he wants to visit one more time before he makes his decision to cut down his list of possible schools? In other words, is it possible he is visiting because he doesn't know if Duke is the best place for him.

Of course it's possible. That's an exceedingly negative, fear-induced, half-empty way to look at this, but you're entitled.

[Duke #33]

Of course it's possible. That's an exceedingly negative, fear-induced, half-empty way to look at this, but you're entitled.

I don't think that that is the reason Wall is coming to visit Duke, but i thought that that is still a possible reason why he is going to visit Duke. Personally, I feel optimistic about our chances for getting Wall, but I wanted to state a possible reason that no one has mentioned.

[tommy]

This is the interesting quote from the WRAL story:

"The amount of money you hear [for high picks in the NBA draft] is pretty impressive," Wall said Tuesday. "But I really think I need one, two, three years of college to prepare me to play in the NBA. I don't think I'm ready to play in the NBA right now and I want the college experience. Going to college would be good for me."

Two things about this: One, he may be blowing smoke, but he's talking up to three years in college? Wow.

And second, I'd like to think it bodes well for Duke that the college experience is important to him. Duke certainly has more to offer in terms of the traditional, academics-oriented, campus-based college experience than do most if all of Wall's other serious suitors. Heck, just show him that great College Basketball Preview cover photo from a few years ago now of Jason Williams when we were really riding high. That photo said "traditional student athlete" like few others I can recall.

[geraldsneighbor]

Can someone give me an idea of what his situation is like with his mother? I had heard she is ill and that may be a factor in staying close to home. Also, I had heard his father had passed away but am not sure if I misread that post. He sounds like a really well-spoken guy, and someone I would like to hear Bob Harris interview in post-game Duke Locker Room Report. Just Saying.

[CameronCrazy'11]

Tommy - I think he's just saying maybe two or three years because he wants to say the right thing. The reality is that players who would go top 3 in the draft just about always go.

Geraldsneighbor - yes, his mother has had health issues, and because of that, being close to home is a big plus for him. His dad passed away quite a few years ago, and the Cliftons have been close with him since then.

Personally, I think this visit bodes very well for Duke.

[rotogod00]

Apologize if this was posted earlier, but word is he's meeting (or has already met) with Cal today. Then meeting with Coach K tonite at 6 o'clock.

[CMS2478]

Apologize if this was posted earlier, but word is he's meeting (or has already met) with Cal today. Then meeting with Coach K tonite at 6 o'clock.

And yet there is another report that says that Cal was going to meet with Bledsoe today. So he is visiting Leslie, Wall, and Bledsoe all in one day. No wonder he is a recruiting phenomenon. :D

[ScreechTDX1847]

*Crosses fingers*

When G leaves it would be great to have a playmaker come in instantly. I would also like to have a PG that can break some UNC ankles like Lawson has been doing to us (and everyone else) for 3 years.

[CMS2478]

*Crosses fingers*

When G leaves it would be great to have a playmaker come in instantly. I would also like to have a PG that can break some UNC ankles like Lawson has been doing to us (and everyone else) for 3 years.

Wait....you are crossing your fingers that G leaves? ;) Just Kidding

[geraldsneighbor]

Just when I started feeling better about our chances with Wall, Cal comes into North Carolina today to meet with him. This is pretty frustrating.

[SilkyJ]

Just when I started feeling better about our chances with Wall, Cal comes into North Carolina today to meet with him. This is pretty frustrating.

maybe stop worrying about every little inkling so much. When statements are made its fine to read into them, but when rumors abound about who is visiting who and when, half of it isn't true so don't worry about it. Easier said than done, i know...

[geraldsneighbor]

maybe stop worrying about every little inkling so much. When statements are made its fine to read into them, but when rumors abound about who is visiting who and when, half of it isn't true so don't worry about it. Easier said than done, i know...

Haha, yeah it is the drama that fills recruiting. Hopefully we get either Wall or Bledsoe. We need another guard for the spot that will most likely be vacated by Gerald.

[stickdog]

And yet there is another report that says that Cal was going to meet with Bledsoe today. So he is visiting Leslie, Wall, and Bledsoe all in one day. No wonder he is a recruiting phenomenon. :D

Leslie->Bledsoe->Knight (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N376HA)

[geraldsneighbor]

Leslie->Bledsoe->Knight (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N376HA)

We are flight tracking now?

[SilkyJ]

Leslie->Bledsoe->Knight (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N376HA)

First of all, hilarious. I cant believe we can actually track private flights...this is getting completely ridiculous.

Secondly, I think its more that Lexington is NORTH of Durham which is NORTH of Birmingham which is NORTH of Hollywood, FL

[Duke #33]

Here http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/11653116 is an article about why Wall should try to skip college and enter the Draft.

[El_Diablo]

Leslie->Bledsoe->Knight (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N376HA)

And Barnes (Apr. 20)... :)

[BD80]

Leslie->Bledsoe->Knight (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N376HA)

Actually I would rate them:

Knight > Bledsoe > Leslie








;) in case someone was going to explain the arrows

[Bsim412]

Today Wall edited his list on scout.com

http://duke.scout.com/a.z?s=167&p=8&c=1&nid=3060204

[Wheat/"/"/"]

And the plot thickens...

.....Wall said that North Carolina hadn't reached out to him since the Final Four -- and there's also the issue of his close advisor, AAU program director Brian Clifton, not being a big Roy Williams fan -- but it's expected that Wall will look at the Tar Heels once their point guard, Ty Lawson, finally enters his name in the draft. (Wall said on Friday that while UNC wasn't on his list, he still planned to "wait and see if [the Tar Heels] talk to me again.")

Article Link (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/luke_winn/04/21/recruiting/index.html?eref=T1)

[gotham devil]

http://new.kentuckysportsradio.com/?p=17962

[geraldsneighbor]

http://new.kentuckysportsradio.com/?p=17962

You have to be kidding me.

[Bsim412]

Coach K knows what he is doing even though this is not a smart move. This doesn't hurt that badly but you never know it could

[Kewlswim]

Coach K knows what he is doing even though this is not a smart move. This doesn't hurt that badly but you never know it could

Hi,

Maybe there was no meeting scheduled? Maybe Coach K didn't postpone something that never was? Is that possible?

GO DUKE!

[SupaDave]

Am I the only one that thinks John Wall looks a lot like Souljah Boy?

[johaad]

Am I the only one that thinks John Wall looks a lot like Souljah Boy?

Wow. You are right. That is crazy.

[Cell-R]

Maybe with the meeting being postponed, Wall will have the most recently visited Duke when he comes to his decision. It could only help (although LDOC would be a good day to visit) having the best college freshest in his mind when he decides. :D

[BlueintheFace]

I have never completely believed that the olympics have had any effect on K's recruiting. I will continue to hold this belief... until two things happens. 1) this report that the Wall meeting has been postponed due to K's book-signing tour is proved true, and 2) Wall does not commit to Duke.


... till then, keep dominating that recruiting trail as you always have K

[rotogod00]

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks this delay hurts our chances with Wall. Not the delay in and of itself, but the reason for it.

[johaad]

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks this delay hurts our chances with Wall. Not the delay in and of itself, but the reason for it.

Most people are freaking out about it at TDD. I had to get out of the negativity and get back home to the great DBR.

[moonpie23]

i'm sure i'm gonna get written up for this, but.
.

are you people insane? Do you REALLY think, that IF the john wall meeting as important as everyone on this board thinks it was, that K would casually "miss" it for some book signing stuff?

for supposed duke fans, y'all are sure selling K pretty short...


maybe the mods should lock this thread......it's getting ugly...

[rotogod00]

i'm sure i'm gonna get written up for this, but.
.

are you people insane? Do you REALLY think, that IF the john wall meeting as important as everyone on this board thinks it was, that K would casually "miss" it for some book signing stuff?

for supposed duke fans, y'all are sure selling K pretty short...


maybe the mods should lock this thread......it's getting ugly...

don't care if it was an important meeting or not. it was a meeting. and K didn't make it. of course it wasn't on purpose, but aren't you supposed to be showing these recruits that they are your #1 priority?

[johaad]

i'm sure i'm gonna get written up for this, but.
.

are you people insane? Do you REALLY think, that IF the john wall meeting as important as everyone on this board thinks it was, that K would casually "miss" it for some book signing stuff?

for supposed duke fans, y'all are sure selling K pretty short...


maybe the mods should lock this thread......it's getting ugly...

I agree with you 100%. Coach K surely explained what happened to John Wall. It is not that big of a deal. I am so glad to see someone else thinking like myself.

[Skitzle]

don't care if it was an important meeting or not. it was a meeting. and K didn't make it. of course it wasn't on purpose, but aren't you supposed to be showing these recruits that they are your #1 priority?

Can we even confirm this is true??? Where did this rumor come from?

Duke Basketball Recruiting - John Wall reschedules his visit to Duke
http://bluedevilnation.net/?p=2130

Watzone says John Wall asked to reschedule doesn't say why.

I've said it before in this post, but sounds made up.

[rotogod00]

Can we even confirm this is true??? Where did this rumor come from?

Duke Basketball Recruiting - John Wall reschedules his visit to Duke
http://bluedevilnation.net/?p=2130

Watzone says John Wall asked to reschedule doesn't say why.

I've said it before in this post, but sounds made up.

who knows if it's true but:
http://new.kentuckysportsradio.com/?p=17962

[moonpie23]

don't care if it was an important meeting or not. it was a meeting. and K didn't make it. of course it wasn't on purpose, but aren't you supposed to be showing these recruits that they are your #1 priority?

so, are you saying you're privileged as to the details of the meeting? why it was moved? why it was "all or nothing"?


please.....enlighten us....

[rotogod00]

so, are you saying you're privileged as to the details of the meeting? why it was moved? why it was "all or nothing"?


please.....enlighten us....

of course not. whether this canceled meeting has an impact at all, who knows. but if it does have any impact, it has to be negative, in my opinion.

[TheBrianZoubekExperience]

Yeah, I want to reserve worrying about this until we find out what actually happened let alone if John Wall actually cares. The short post says he got "stuck in" so I don't know if that meant he missed a flight or what but we don't even know if he necessarily chose to miss the meeting for the book tour. I find it hard to believe that he would choose to miss a meeting with Wall if the meeting meant anything. I'm not sure why this would mean that much to Wall unless he gets wowed by a different school and commits before we see him again. It seems like he knows every school would love to have him so I don't know that he'd necessarily feel slighted. I'd think he's going to make his decision more on how well he thinks he'll fit on the team in terms of basketball and what the better situation for him is.

On an unrelated note, I agree with the article that said he should at least make the NBA rule. I don't see why he would just do that and get a ruling and then make a decision. I suspect he's not eligible but I think if I was him I would get a ruling from the NBA.

[BD80]

Maybe John is tired of sycophantic coaches climbing all over each other for the chance to say hi.

Maybe John is interested in a coach and a program that will be fine with or without him, a coach that is honest, straightforward, and TRUSTWORTHY.

If John is interested in another meeting, that has to be good news.

[BlueintheFace]

i'm sure i'm gonna get written up for this, but.
.

are you people insane? Do you REALLY think, that IF the john wall meeting as important as everyone on this board thinks it was, that K would casually "miss" it for some book signing stuff?

for supposed duke fans, y'all are sure selling K pretty short...


maybe the mods should lock this thread......it's getting ugly...

The facts are unclear. However, the unconfirmed report is not that he casually missed it, but was planning on returning from a book-signing event to meet with John, but was unable to do so because of whatever weather/mechanical/scheduling/plane related issues.

If this is actually the case. Then the situation is very simple. Coach K's book signing tour caused Coach K to cancel an important meeting with John Wall at Duke today (LDOC from what I hear).

I say that it is important because... well see the last million posts on the very talented, highly sought after, unpredictable John Wall. Frankly, I don't think anybody is melting down over here to the degree your post indicates. You actually appear to be the most affected. I will say this though....

IF (big if) the scenario above turns out to be correct, and John Wall commits before meeting with K again, then I think K will get some much deserved criticism on this board. Although, I doubt anybody will be as disappointed in him and the result as coach K. On the flip side, this speculation could all be wrong... wouldn't be the first time on this thread.

Finally, LOCK THE SUPER-THREAD??? ARE YOU CRAZY??

[verga]

do the people on this board know the reason that the meeting was canceled? Really what was it and where did you learn about it, was the information coming from a reliable source? Is there any reason for doubt or do you know this to be 100% true?

[BlueintheFace]

do the people on this board know the reason that the meeting was canceled? Really what was it and where did you learn about it, was the information coming from a reliable source? Is there any reason for doubt or do you know this to be 100% true?

We have been told that he:

"got stuck in NY"

http://new.kentuckysportsradio.com/?p=17962

and we have also learned:

http://bluedevilnation.net/?p=2130

.. one of those sources is obviously more reliable than the other.

[geraldsneighbor]

Finally, LOCK THE SUPER-THREAD??? ARE YOU CRAZY??



Haha, this is gunning for 2,000. This is the most amazing piece of literature since the Catcher in the Rye.

[roywhite]

We have been told that he:

"got stuck in NY"

http://new.kentuckysportsradio.com/?p=17962

and we have also learned:

http://bluedevilnation.net/?p=2130

.. one of those sources is obviously more reliable than the other.

Yeah, a little puzzling and disappointing that the meeting got postponed. In many soap operas, when the wedding gets postponed, it's a bad sign.

Actually, if K has built a level of trust with John Wall (and his mother and his adviser Clifton), this should be no big deal.

Hopelessly hooked, I'll just wait for the next episode.

[RelativeWays]

You guys realize that this book tour has been set up by the publisher months earlier right? Its part of the promotional cycle that every author goes through so its not like Coach K can up and cancel something thats been planned well ahead of time, probably before Duke even officially offered Wall a scholarship.

[FerryFor50]

We have been told that he:

"got stuck in NY"

http://new.kentuckysportsradio.com/?p=17962

and we have also learned:

http://bluedevilnation.net/?p=2130

.. one of those sources is obviously more reliable than the other.

Judging from the fact that Kentucky's article cites the immeasurable Bomani Jones, I'd say the second link would be the one to trust.

[moonpie23]

IF (big if) the scenario above turns out to be correct, and John Wall commits before meeting with K again, then I think K will get some much deserved criticism on this board. Although, I doubt anybody will be as disappointed in him and the result as coach K. On the flip side, this speculation could all be wrong... wouldn't be the first time on this thread.

Finally, LOCK THE SUPER-THREAD??? ARE YOU CRAZY??

my point being that we don't KNOW what happened....as i stated "IF" the meeting was that important (ie: THE WEDDING) i doubt very seriously that coach K would have missed it due to some mechanical/weather/scheduling of flight. He could be on a private jet out of teeterboro in about 30 min.

i suggest that it WASNT the "wedding" and that there is much more is going on here than what any of us are privy to...

IF john decides to go to another school (or the nba) i highly doubt it has anything to do with yesterday's "meeting"...

and btw....i'm not in meltdown....i do bristle when i read folks implying that K somehow was too self centered or not "showing the recruits that they are the top priority".........maybe they are not...

[rotogod00]

"not "showing the recruits that they are the top priority".........maybe they are not..."

but shouldn't they be

[RepoMan]

I saw John Wall at the airport. He was wearing blue socks. Now, it's a bit hard to read because both Kentucky and Duke have blue unis, but I am pretty sure the socks were Duke blue. Clearly not Carolina blue. This has to be a good sign.

[blueprofessor]

creates more intimacy and trust cultivation . The key to successfully selling is to relax the prospect and listen for the spoken and implied questions which are causing anxiety to the prospect. Then the seller answers those concerns/questions and reduces the purchasing anxiety , thereby closing the deal.
Without the seller at a scheduled meeting, the prospect's anxiety continues, his questions are unanswered, and he often turns to a competitor shortly thereafter who shows up on time and reduces the prospect's uncertainties....
In negotiation with a powerful entity, the novice (prospect) could naturally see a missed meeting as a slight.This is especially true for young people accompanied by a parent, who may be more offended than anyone.
Normally,there is no way a missed meeting is helpful. K may be able to ameliorate the matter.
Regardless of the flight delay or transportation mishap , there should have been a contingency plan (there are personal assistants available to plan).

For instance, if your kid has to be in school Monday morning in Florida, a parent schedules the flight( unfortunately through Atlanta) so you arrive home Saturday.If there is a problem, you have plenty of options to arrive by Sunday.

We need certain recruits. Hopefully there will be no more events (non--essential to recruiting) which interfere with realizing the key success factors now required for Duke's customary success: an excellent point guard!

Best--Blueprof:)

[JasonEvans]

don't care if it was an important meeting or not. it was a meeting. and K didn't make it. of course it wasn't on purpose, but aren't you supposed to be showing these recruits that they are your #1 priority?

K does not want a kid who thinks he is the #1 most important thing in Coach K's life right now. Lets get some perspective people, ok?

You folks read too much into this stuff. Sheesh! Isn't it possible that it went something like this--


Phone rings

JW: Hello, this is John.

K: John, its Coach K. How is it going today?

JW: Well, coach, it has been a kinda busy day. Coach Calipari is coming to see me. I've gotten 9 phone calls from assistant coaches at other schools. And I think I saw Coach Donovan standing by the side of the road as I drove to school this morning. He waved.

K: Well, John, your day is about to get easier. I am afraid I am going to have to put off our meeting this afternoon.

JW: That's too bad. Is everything ok? Did that Bledsoe kid qualify and you decide to take him instead of waiting for me?

K: No, no. Nothing like that. This is all my fault John and I am so sorry. You see, I am up here in New York talking to folks at all the TV networks about my new book and there are just so many people who want to put me on TV and write articles about me that I can't make it back to Durham in time.

JW: No problem coach. I totally understand. What is the book about again?

K: Oh, its all the things I learned and did with Kobe, Lebron, Dwayne Wade, Chris Paul and the other guys this past summer when we won the Gold Medal in China. Whew, even after winning 3 national titles and coaching 8 national players of the year, there was still so much more I was able to learn about how handle, nurture, and utilize great basketball talent. Now that I think about it, I see a little of of Chris Paul in your game, John. We should talk more about that when I get back in town.

JW: Sure, coach. That sounds great. We are only about 15 minutes away from each other down here in the Triangle so scheduling time to have our meeting on some other day will really be easy. Plus, I've got a test in basket weaving tomorrow and I could use the extra study time.

K: That is great to hear, John. That's exactly the attitude that I want you to bring to Duke. See you in a couple days.

--Jason "sigh, some folks will always assume the worst" Evans

[quickgtp]

K does not want a kid who thinks he is the #1 most important thing in Coach K's life right now. Lets get some perspective people, ok?

Can this be confirmed? Who's to say that K doesn't think that John isn't his #1 priority right now? It should be his top priority and I don't think it isn't "off-the-wall" to believe otherwise considering our potential guard scenario next year.

[FerryFor50]

K does not want a kid who thinks he is the #1 most important thing in Coach K's life right now. Lets get some perspective people, ok?

Can this be confirmed? Who's to say that K doesn't think that John isn't his #1 priority right now? It should be his top priority and I don't think it isn't "off-the-wall" to believe otherwise considering our potential guard scenario next year.

Don't you think that putting an individual over the team is something K has avoided his entire career at Duke?

I'm sure this is the situation here. Sure, he'd like to have Wall, but he's not going to lower his standards to do it.

[rotogod00]

Don't you think that putting an individual over the team is something K has avoided his entire career at Duke?

I'm sure this is the situation here. Sure, he'd like to have Wall, but he's not going to lower his standards to do it.


Nobody's saying to lower standards. If Wall's not a good fit for whatever reason, then we don't want him. But apparently K thinks otherwise. He's been recruiting him hard for several weeks now. Now that we're close to the finish line, not a good time to miss a meeting (again imo)

[FerryFor50]

Nobody's saying to lower standards. If Wall's not a good fit for whatever reason, then we don't want him. But apparently K thinks otherwise. He's been recruiting him hard for several weeks now. Now that we're close to the finish line, not a good time to miss a meeting (again imo)

Yea, but dropping everything in your life for one guy is a conflicting message to "team first."

Wall is important - I'm sure K has made this clear. Missing a meeting with someone you can meet with at any time isn't a huge deal.

[rotogod00]

Yea, but dropping everything in your life for one guy is a conflicting message to "team first."

Wall is important - I'm sure K has made this clear. Missing a meeting with someone you can meet with at any time isn't a huge deal.

Hope you're right

[moonpie23]

maybe coach K WANTS him to go to Miami BEFORE he has an "official" visit from wall..i would definitely want the prospective client to check out the competition first, THEN be the last one to lay out the case.

[blueprofessor]

K does not want a kid who thinks he is the #1 most important thing in Coach K's life right now. Lets get some perspective people, ok?

You folks read too much into this stuff. Sheesh! Isn't it possible that it went something like this--
"That sounds great. We are only about 15 minutes away from each other down here in the Triangle so scheduling time to have our meeting on some other day will really be easy."


In the real world ,in negotiations, there is credible advice: "Strike while the iron is hot!"
I have no doubt that the top recruiters in college who desperately need a critical, missing part (as Duke needs a point guard named Wall) will have that prospect #1 on their "to-do" list.If they don't they won't be enjoying their expected or historical level of success in the NCAA Tournament.

Best regards--Blueprof :)

[quickgtp]

I think we all have some validity to our thinking, but I guess we will have to see what actually happened yesterday and how this all plays out in the end.

Let's hope there is some light at the end of the tunnel on this one!

[FerryFor50]

Ranked 58th by Rivals... 6'5" SG... does this mean Baylor is out of the hunt for Mr. Wall?

[quickgtp]

Ranked 58th by Rivals... 6'5" SG... does this mean Baylor is out of the hunt for Mr. Wall?

I don't think this would affect them going after Wall unless there is a scholly # issue @ Baylor??

[DukeHoopsGuru]

I've been reading a day's worth of opinions on this Wall situation, and both sides are right. But bottom line, it mattered.

It's not the end of the world that Coach K missed the appointment due to weather or whatever the reason was. This tour probably had been in the works prior to the Wall visit. I'm sure if in fact the meeting was missed, Coach K spoke to Wall and/or his handlers.

However, those who lean to the above paragraph are absolutely on crack if they think it's not a big deal. Actual face time/contact trumps all else in recruiting. Always. Charlie Weis thought playing in the Super Bowl would give him visibility for recruiting just like Coach K thought the Dream Team would give him the visibility to land top classes. Weis's first class was mediocre, and Duke hasn't landed a stud the past 2 classes. It matters people. Coach K spent an entire offseason away from the team while his rival 10 miles away was widening the talent gap between the 2 programs. 6 out of the last 8, 2 championships in 4 years, and 3 Final 4s in 4 years proves it. He's written plenty of books. This isn't the time to spend even more time away from the program considering your best player is about to leave your program. You can't spend 24-7 with your team, but it's not like you spent a ton of time with them last offseason.

Bad luck or not, if in fact Coach K missed the meeting yesterday, it was a big deal. They started late in the game with Wall to begin with. Coach Cal didn't miss the meeting b/c he was out on a book tour. You can bet Roy isn't going to miss a chance to speak with a recruit stemming from unavailability caused by a book tour. Meeting with Wall just as you seem to close a gap due to a late start was a big big deal. And for whatever reason, just like the past 5 seasons, Duke and Coach K came up short.

[rotogod00]

I've been reading a day's worth of opinions on this Wall situation, and both sides are right. But bottom line, it mattered.

It's not the end of the world that Coach K missed the appointment due to weather or whatever the reason was. This tour probably had been in the works prior to the Wall visit. I'm sure if in fact the meeting was missed, Coach K spoke to Wall and/or his handlers.

However, those who lean to the above paragraph are absolutely on crack if they think it's not a big deal. Actual face time/contact trumps all else in recruiting. Always. Charlie Weis thought playing in the Super Bowl would give him visibility for recruiting just like Coach K thought the Dream Team would give him the visibility to land top classes. Weis's first class was mediocre, and Duke hasn't landed a stud the past 2 classes. It matters people. Coach K spent an entire offseason away from the team while his rival 10 miles away was widening the talent gap between the 2 programs. 6 out of the last 8, 2 championships in 4 years, and 3 Final 4s in 4 years proves it. He's written plenty of books. This isn't the time to spend even more time away from the program considering your best player is about to leave your program. You can't spend 24-7 with your team, but it's not like you spent a ton of time with them last offseason.

Bad luck or not, if in fact Coach K missed the meeting yesterday, it was a big deal. They started late in the game with Wall to begin with. Coach Cal didn't miss the meeting b/c he was out on a book tour. You can bet Roy isn't going to miss a chance to speak with a recruit stemming from unavailability caused by a book tour. Meeting with Wall just as you seem to close a gap due to a late start was a big big deal. And for whatever reason, just like the past 5 seasons, Duke and Coach K came up short.

but how do you really feel ;-)

and i agree with you

[alteran]

K does not want a kid who thinks he is the #1 most important thing in Coach K's life right now. Lets get some perspective people, ok?

You folks read too much into this stuff. Sheesh! Isn't it possible that it went something like this--

Priceless.