John Wall Recruitment

[FireOgilvie]

Well you keep in mind that Duke ALREADY has THAT number of one and dones. So your point is?

I'm not sure what you're talking about... Duke has had zero one-and-dones since the rule about going straight to the NBA from HS. Memphis will have had 6 by the end of next season if Wall ends up there. Memphis gets a lot of one-and-done talent. That's all I was saying.

[chrisheery]

why there is a Duke "hatred tsunami" should just refer to this thread. It seems that many of us seem to think no player could possibly choose another school if they are high character or smart. It also seems that we think Coach K is so far ahead of other coaches and Duke is so much better than other schools that a player would have to be a fool to chose an0ther school.

Quite simply, its not true. Different schools offer different things. Some coaches (like Calapari) are clearly able to connect with players in much the same way Coach K does with the guys that come here. We can't belittle other schools are cast aspersions on them because guys we want go to that school. Recruiting goes in cycles. When the top players' goals happen to coincide with what Duke offers (hopefully like Harrison Barnes), that school gets a great class. It so happens that this coming year happens to be one for Memphis if the chips fall as they appear they will.

That said, I love that we are at least getting involved with these players to see if they would fit with us. It lends credibility when we find a guy that wants to be one and done and does match up with us.

[Greg_Newton]

I am not sure why everyone is so defensive when it comes to Memphis' current program-building tactics. I don't think the argument has anything to do with reputations of the school or anything like that... I lliked Memphis back when Carney was there, and even last year with Rose leading a solid all around team. But after Rose, it seems like many top-tier recruits that would normally jump straight to the NBA have deciced to just go to Memphis for a year because it's a proven springboard for their career path (and come on, can you really argue this is why they are choosing Memphis? Tyreke Evans himself basically said in so many words on OTL earlier this year). When it gets to the point that it appears the top 3 recruits in the class are doing this, along with another who is not far below them, it has to strike you as at least somewhat troubling.

To be clear, I am NOT blaming the players themselves. In many ways it is definitely a smart career move, and who are we to judge them for that? The way I see it, it is similar to an potential MBA student deciding between a school that is renowned for its academic integrity and a school that is famous for it's connections and placement in the business world. Most MBAs go biz school for the connections anyway, and no one gets angry, we just call them ambitious. But if you're a fan of... business, then... umm... well, it's not the best analogy, but you get the idea.:D

My main point is that Calipari currently appears to be building an elite program around a reputation for being a 1-year springboard to the NBA, and that does not seem like a good or reputable thing to be doing in college basketball. Again, if you look at the recruiting that has taken place post-Rose and what the recruits themselves have said, I just don't see how you can really argue that that is what is going on. Call me an uppity Duke fan if you want, but it's not just a coincidence.

[SupaDave]

Enough about Memphis b/c it appears there are others who would like to sway the vote. Don't know how this flew under the radar and I really don't know what to say about this but take a look...

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/decock/story/1430903.html

[chrisheery]

Enough about Memphis b/c it appears there are others who would like to sway the vote. Don't know how this flew under the radar and I really don't know what to say about this but take a look...

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/decock/story/1430903.html

This was posted on the front page.

Odd peice to put in a newspaper, I thought.

[Vincetaylor]

I'm happy that Duke is not like Memphis and that Coach K is not like John Calipari. If Calipari wants to win an NCAA Tourney with a bunch of one and done freshman and junior college recruits, good for him. The day Duke starts doing that would be the day I stop being a fan of college basketball.

[Duke PT]

I checked Rivals and scout.com and it doesn't look like John Wall has even gotten a scholarship offer from Duke? Is that true? If so, how can we expect him to commit to Duke?

[superdave]

I dont think Coach K would offer Wall unless he felt the interest was mutual. Duke came into the Wall sweepstakes in the fall, a year or so later than most. So K's probably trying to see if Wall is truly interested and get to know him well to see how he'd fit into the program.

Considering our chances for Wall are not likely great, I was reading in the ACC Area Sports Journal that Knight had a Top 6 that does not currently include Duke. Looks like Duke should step it up with Kyrie Irving and others.

[yancem]

I dont think Coach K would offer Wall unless he felt the interest was mutual. Duke came into the Wall sweepstakes in the fall, a year or so later than most. So K's probably trying to see if Wall is truly interested and get to know him well to see how he'd fit into the program.

Considering our chances for Wall are not likely great, I was reading in the ACC Area Sports Journal that Knight had a Top 6 that does not currently include Duke. Looks like Duke should step it up with Kyrie Irving and others.

Yeah, I have been thinking that Duke was not going to get Knight for a long time now.

[SupaDave]

Florida, schormida.

All of a sudden it's looking like Baylor may have more to offer than previously thought.

[dgoore97]

but wall's teammate is reopening recruiting and looking at memphis.

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/story/1444574.html

how strong does that Calipari in the Wall recruitment?

[studdlee10]

but wall's teammate is reopening recruiting and looking at memphis.

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/story/1444574.html

how strong does that Calipari in the Wall recruitment?

Wall, Cousins, and Henry won't be in school when Leslie matriculates, so it shouldn't play any role in Wall's decision.

I like Memphis, I really do. As far as pure talent goes, there isn't anything more fun than watching some of their new one-and-dones come in and play. Rose was a fantastic player and by all accounts a good kid. Same could be said for Henry, etc. However, opening that door has allowed a lot of shady characters in. Tyreke Evans and his entourage (including the notorious World Wide Wes) are shady at best. Not saying that any kid interested in goign to play ball at Memphis is bad.

I think Coach Cal has found a formula, one that worked for him at UMass and one that works for him now. They play patsy teams in conference, pad stats (No way Evans and his lack of game IQ and jumper would be that successful in the Big East or ACC) and blow teams out of the water by playing a fast paced, no structure game. However, he is a good coach who genuinely seems to care about his players personally. Academically I don't think he cares and that's not his fault. However, you have to have some hesitation because Cal did get into some hot water with Camby at UMass.

I don't like what Cal is doing because I think it degrades the accomplishments of schools like Duke, Wake, and even UNC and their attempts to do things the right way and recruit student athletes (some exceptions aside). There is no doubt in my mind that there are improprieties going on at Memphis. Take a quick look at the Memphis FedEx internship program. You're telling me a bogus internship that pays "interns" a phenomenal sum of money is'nt appealing to a kid who has no interest in getting a degree? I'm confused how the NCAA deemed this legal, and it is no doubt a recruiting chip.

As others have mentioned, FedEx and Memphis bball ARE Memphis. FedEx execs donate hundreds of thousands to the program and the team flies in private FedEx jets. You cannot possibly convince me that their dedication to the program stops there. Poke around the internet...and you'll see that Wall's recruitment has been shady from day one. He has handlers, entourage....people with their hands out. You're telling me he's going to go somewhere where those guys won' see one benefit (ie duke)? Not a chance.

[Hancock 4 Duke]

Hey, I was just visiting scout, and Wall's interest has gone up to Med. So maybe he is getting more and more interested. OH YEAH BABY! HE IS UP TO MEDIUM! MEDIUM!!

[Devilsfan]

Maybe he is just missing the coverage he was getting now that the big dance is in full swing. Maybe his "handlers" are using it as a ploy to try to negotiate a better deal with a team from say Tenn? What if Cal goes to KY? Oh the possibilities.

[Clipsfan]

Take a quick look at the Memphis FedEx internship program. You're telling me a bogus internship that pays "interns" a phenomenal sum of money is'nt appealing to a kid who has no interest in getting a degree? I'm confused how the NCAA deemed this legal, and it is no doubt a recruiting chip.

What are the details on this internship? The quick search I did found what looked to be a legit internship program that lasts 3 months or so and supposedly requires 40 hours/week.

[tendev]

I have not read all the posts about John Wall and his supposed recruitment (not sure he is even being recruited or is even interested in coming here) by Duke, but some I have read leave me asking why some posters on this board have a compulsive need to disparage other schools and their basketball programs as somehow less pristine and pure than our own and to cast thinly-veiled aspersions on the "character" of an 18 year old kid when it appears that that same 18 year old, who happens to be a great basketball player, decides that Duke is not the place he wants to enroll. Perhaps he reads this board and decides, based on the comment posted, that he does not want to go to a school whose graduates (I assume that most of the posts that fit the above are from graduates) are so full of themselves and their school.

[blueprofessor]

but some I have read leave me asking why some posters on this board have a compulsive need to disparage other schools and their basketball programs as somehow less pristine and pure than our own and to cast thinly-veiled aspersions on the "character" of an 18 year old kid when it appears that that same 18 year old, who happens to be a great basketball player, decides that Duke is not the place he wants to enroll.

His entourage (euphemism:advisers) may very well decide. John seems like a good kid who could benefit as a man and as a player from K and Duke.
Tendev, in situations with advisers, there is the clear and present danger that the advisers' interests take precedence over the best interests of the young man.
Best--Blueprof:)

[MarkD83]

Hey, I was just visiting scout, and Wall's interest has gone up to Med. So maybe he is getting more and more interested. OH YEAH BABY! HE IS UP TO MEDIUM! MEDIUM!!

some serious therapy if this gets you excited. Of course I need the therapy as well because I am reading this thread. :D

[BD80]

Is there any question after last night's "game" against Nova that we need an athletic, dynamic ball-handler at the point?

With Kyle coming back, and hopefully G too, John would have a pretty good chance of dancing at the Big Dance.

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

Is there any question after last night's "game" against Nova that we need an athletic, dynamic ball-handler at the point?

With Kyle coming back, and hopefully G too, John would have a pretty good chance of dancing at the Big Dance.

I hope it didn't take last night's game to make that clear. I thought watching Nolan spend the season buckling under the weight of unfair expectations and turning to a SG who averages 2.8 assists would do the trick. Or maybe watching every team with a quick PG slice us to ribbons.

If Wall comes here and lives up to even half of his prior work we'll be the odds on favorite next year, G or no G. If not, I'm not sure we're in the top 10.

[RoyalBlue08]

Today when discussing the possibility of Calipari leaving Memphis to coach Kentucky, Andy Katz mentioned off hand that John Wall was deciding between Memphis and Duke. Not sure Katz knows anything more than anyone else, but if it is really down to those two schools and Cal's situation being up in the air right now...maybe we have a better chance at Wall than some people assume. Then again, maybe Wall would rather be at Kentucky than Memphis and will follow Calipari there. Either way, watching what happens with the Kentucky job, who if any of Cal's recruits follow him there if he decides to go, and if Meeks decides to stay at Kentucky are all going to be factors now in who lands Wall I think.

[TaiAdmiral]

Breaking news from Watzone:

http://bluedevilnation.net/?p=2024

[TigerEye]

I was told he will be visiting tomorrow, specifically to meet with coach K, because he has never had the chance.

I am trying to find out more and will let you know if I find anything else out.

www.memphisroar.com

[watzone]

Breaking news from Watzone:

http://bluedevilnation.net/?p=2024

He will meet Krzyzewski tomorrow with his Mom and AAU Coach in tow.

[_Gary]

We so need to pull this coup off! If, by some miracle, we landed Wall and at the same time saw Gerald come back for his senior year I believe we'd be the odds on favorite to win it all next year. And even if we weren't the preseason favorite, I'm convinced we'd be the favorite by the time March rolled back around.

[ice-9]

Wall, Scheyer, Nolan and Ewing at the wings...
Singler, Lance, Zoubek, Kelley, and the two Plumlees as our posts...

Wow, that's a very strong and versatile team. We'll have three capable shooters, three penetrators, four big bodies, and hopefully one dominant PG. And that's assuming G doesn't return.

[BlueintheFace]

Time for Coach K's "Come to Jesus" talk with John. I think this is a yes/no meeting. I don't think that Duke will be weighed closely with the other teams after this. I think Duke will become his pick or drop off the map.

Of course, I know nothing, but this is my guess based on how different Duke and K will look compared to the other schools. Certainly K will ask some probing questions and make clear some of the standards he has at Duke.

[yancem]

Wall, Scheyer, Nolan and Ewing at the wings...
Singler, Lance, Zoubek, Kelley, and the two Plumlees as our posts...

Wow, that's a very strong and versatile team. We'll have three capable shooters, three penetrators, four big bodies, and hopefully one dominant PG. And that's assuming G doesn't return.

Ewing? Um, Daniel Ewing graduated a couple of years ago?

[loran16]

Time for Coach K's "Come to Jesus" talk with John. I think this is a yes/no meeting. I don't think that Duke will be weighed closely with the other teams after this. I think Duke will become his pick or drop off the map.

Of course, I know nothing, but this is my guess based on how different Duke and K will look compared to the other schools. Certainly K will ask some probing questions and make clear some of the standards he has at Duke.

For the record, I would guess this is the truth here. Wall has made it known recently that Memphis is where he is leaning...yet he's still coming to campus, meaning he's still not sure. After today's meeting, there'll be nothing else for Wall to make his decision based on...either K will decide he's not worth the offer (Wall to Memphis), K will decide he is and convince Wall that he can be a great player at Duke (Wall to Duke) or K'll offer but Wall won't feel right with K and his role at Duke (Wall to Memphis).

I doubt we'll hear the end result right away (unless we the first option occurs) but i think this is make or break...right here.

[BobbyFan]

Ewing? Um, Daniel Ewing graduated a couple of years ago?

Ewing, E-will...give him a break. :)

[JDev]

I have read the articles linked today in relation to Wall, and he says he is trimming his list to three and will have some information at the Jordan All-Star Game. Is he saying he will trim his list and announce his ultimate decision at the game, or that his three finalists will be announced at that time?

[loran16]

I have read the articles linked today in relation to Wall, and he says he is trimming his list to three and will have some information at the Jordan All-Star Game. Is he saying he will trim his list and announce his ultimate decision at the game, or that his three finalists will be announced at that time?

I suspect his 3 "finalists" will be announced at that time, but odds are that he'll really know where he's going by that point in time. He just won't announce it.

[JDev]

I suspect his 3 "finalists" will be announced at that time, but odds are that he'll really know where he's going by that point in time. He just won't announce it.

Then a natural question to me is how does this effect the recruitment of Bledsoe? I know Wall is the better talent, so is it likely that Duke is waiting to see what Wall will do before extending an offer to Bledsoe? Bledsoe could have made up his mind by that point and be headed elsewhere. I would guess that Wall's impending visit has a lot to do with that, after which K will extend an offer to Wall if he feels it is a good fit. I just would hate to see all the eggs go into the Wall basket, and that basket be taken to Memphis. It would be bad to miss on both guys. It seems like a tight spot, but I have to imagine that K has been in this type of situation before and will handle it accordingly.

[Diddy]

Just to play Devil's Advocate:

Maybe Wall is checking out Duke to make his eventual choice of Memphis seem less seedy. Nothing whitewashes a kid's rep like a photo of him shaking hands with K.

We can forget about Calipari heading to KY. I mean, why? At Memphis he can tinker with lineups and finetune his squad against teams his squad can beat with a C effort most nights. Memphis is a heckuva town. Lexinton is a hole compared to Memphis. Also, Memphis has a few other things going on for the locals to focus on. Lexington has KY basketball. Ask Billy G what that fishbowl is like. This is just a ploy by Cal to get more money from Memphis. Unless it isn't. Ask NCSU. Cal wants no part of genuine compitetion.

I would love to get Wall. I really wish his AAU coach wasn't comming, but that guy's bro played against K in college, so maybe the coach is swayable. Or maybe he now feels close enough to Wall that he doesn't fear K driving a wedge in there while knowing that K and Duke can help Wall.

One of our problems in getting a big seems to be the perception that K tailors Duke's O to maximize the potential of our guards, even to the detriment of the posts. Those are just whispers that I pick up on other, premium boards. I don't beleive it, but some percieve that to be the case.

Well, for a PG, that sounds like a dream come true.

Also, why is his group of advisors so set on Memphis. Yes, they have a talented team coming in. There are 2 other frosh coming in who look good. Unless Mike Davis at UAB gets a high profile job at say UVA and brings Demarcus Cousins along.

For Sure, Xavier Henry will be at Memphis. He might be the only guard in the USA better than Wall in this class. If Cousins is there, Wall might end up being the Third Best player in his CLASS. Sidekicks don't get big bucks in endorsements.

Being the lead Dog at Duke would be awesome.

We would still lack a true post, but suddenly our mobile bigs become HUGE assets, clearing out the lane for Wall, crashing after him, or getting fat off dump-offs after Wall penetrates the first line of Defenders. That looks good.

or

Wall could be passing to a low post banger with an NBA ready body and game, and then watch as said post executes NBA level moves, gets himself a shot, and cleans up rebounds. A post who will be anchored in the lane, along with his defender and the off defender who is slouching down off him. If that isn't available, Wall can pass to the 6-6 guard with good athleticism and a great shot. Wall can then stand arround and watch that guard create for himself by driving or shooting.

Basically Wall can make some college players look like future pros, or he can make surefire future pros look like, well, what they are.

Yes, Wall has a chance to win the title at Memphis. Given their personell, probably a better chance at Memphis than at Duke, even with Hendo.

But, he also runs the risk of not getting credit for it. I am begining to think that many top level recruits value winning only if they play a key role in winning.

At Duke, he would get a lot of credit for Duke returning to the ranks of elite teams, assuming a strong March run. The media would fawn on him, and show his sick Mom at every game. Which she could practically walk too, much less drive. There would be a lot of stories about Wall and what he did for Duke, as well as stories about how he and K or (insert upstanding assistant coach here) bonded and how far Wall has come as a person.

At Memphis, Wall would be part of three elite recruits. I mean elite. One of the best all time classes elite. The top center, the top SG, and the Top PG. There are a lot of stories there. And none of them center on Wall.

As this site is fond of pointing out, there is no salary cap on endorsements. Every contract Wall signs in the NBA already has a ceiling. Assuming he gets max contracts in the league, Wall already knows essentially how much he will make palying ball. Endorsement have no cap. But, in today's market, endorsers only hand out money to elite talents who also have a great story.

The book on John Wall:
He is a inner-city African American with a tough story. This is what is known as street cred to advertisers and the young male population. In a rap obsessed youth culture this plays a lot better than growing up in a subburb. The downside risk of the street cred is that it can offend the sensibilities of middle America. Basically the parents of those suburban kids won't want to shell out big bucks for someone they find off-putting or offensive.

What to do, what to do? WHAT TO DO?

If only there were a school universally acknowledged to be run by a guy who doesn't put up with any sort shadiness. A coach with an almost, dare I say, military mentality. A good rep for winning. More than that. Winning the right way. Who does so with kids who those suburban parents would want their own children to hang out with. (Heck, a few of those kids look like our son's friends.) A coach with great kids on a team that is on TV all the time. With a top notch academic reputation that plays in one of the most storied sports arenas in American History.

If only such a school existed. You know, close to home.

Also, that trip to Memphis from Raleigh is brutal. His mom would spend more time in the air during her flight than the drive to CIS would take. Also, Clemson, WFU, UNC, NCSU, GT and VT are all doable drives from Raleigh. Have you seen where some of those C-USA teams are located.

And now for something completely different. Except I have said it a few times.

Folks, that Nova loss was brutal. We looked horrible. And that could save us.

Without Hendo, we are desparate at the guard. Jon, Nolan, and E-Will will be Ok next year, and so will Duke. If no one gets hurt. Or has a bad year. Or a bad shooting night. Or gets in foul trouble.

The margin for error is RAZOR thin in the backcourt.

Wall can change that. Duke becomes a top 10 lock preseason. Even with Hendo, that is the best we can hope for, bascially taking team that got crushed in the Sweet 16 with only a few additions forward. Wall is top 10 preseason, dangerous by Feb, and terrifying by the ACC tourney.

Wall sees a Duke team with no post player that has to be fed the ball. Or, really, that deserves to be fed the ball. If our entire rotation of bigs (not including Kyle) only rebound, play D, and get 10-15 junk pts a game combined this board will be ESCTATIC. There are wings in Nolan and E-Will who can slash for Alley Oops. Mobile bigs who will do the same. Capable three point shooters (maybe better against a Defense living in fear of a slashing PG who will posterize your entire team). Big who don't expect too much, but whose strengths mesh will Wall's abilities.

Frankly, our team is geared for a ball dominating, penetrating PG who can spread it arround. We just don't have that guard. The entire world saw that on Thursday. Wall, and his advisors, must have seen the starring role he could play.

Wall could make our team next year.

[Sgt. Dingleberry]

Daggummitt, Coach Shisheffski, GIT R DONE!!!

[Diddy]

Then a natural question to me is how does this effect the recruitment of Bledsoe? I know Wall is the better talent, so is it likely that Duke is waiting to see what Wall will do before extending an offer to Bledsoe? Bledsoe could have made up his mind by that point and be headed elsewhere. I would guess that Wall's impending visit has a lot to do with that, after which K will extend an offer to Wall if he feels it is a good fit. I just would hate to see all the eggs go into the Wall basket, and that basket be taken to Memphis. It would be bad to miss on both guys. It seems like a tight spot, but I have to imagine that K has been in this type of situation before and will handle it accordingly.

With Wall, we can kiss Bledsoe goodbye. But, Wall could open the door to the fast rising Kyrie Irving in the Jr class. Wall projects as a 1 and done. Irving does not. Probably not a 4 year player, but close. I think he is like Johnny Flynn from the Cuse.

Wall would show what Duke can do with a good PG. We might be a dangerous team that has a serious NCAA run. Wall leaves, along with a sizeable chunk of the team via Graduation (Jon, Zoubs, Thomas) and early entry (God Bless Kyle). We would also have a great recruiting class already assembled. Our post rotation would already be set with guys who have experience. Irving, or another stud PG, would see how that team could gell their frosh year, and roll thereafter.

I would like Wall or Bledsoe. Really I would. But Wall, while of shorter duration, is a superstud. Bledsoe has great, and I mean great, long term potential. I just think Duke can easily find an equivalent PG in the 2010 class. Wall is a special talent. A truly impact recruit that could send Jon, Zoubs, Thomas, and possibly Kyle out in style, as the guys who both plumbed the valley and climbed back up the peak, returing Duke to our destined spot in Fistianna.

[heyman25]

Just to play Devil's Advocate:

Maybe Wall is checking out Duke to make his eventual choice of Memphis seem less seedy. Nothing whitewashes a kid's rep like a photo of him shaking hands with K.

We can forget about Calipari heading to KY. I mean, why? At Memphis he can tinker with lineups and finetune his squad against teams his squad can beat with a C effort most nights. Memphis is a heckuva town. Lexinton is a hole compared to Memphis. Also, Memphis has a few other things going on for the locals to focus on. Lexington has KY basketball. Ask Billy G what that fishbowl is like. This is just a ploy by Cal to get more money from Memphis. Unless it isn't. Ask NCSU. Cal wants no part of genuine compitetion.

I would love to get Wall. I really wish his AAU coach wasn't comming, but that guy's bro played against K in college, so maybe the coach is swayable. Or maybe he now feels close enough to Wall that he doesn't fear K driving a wedge in there while knowing that K and Duke can help Wall.

One of our problems in getting a big seems to be the perception that K tailors Duke's O to maximize the potential of our guards, even to the detriment of the posts. Those are just whispers that I pick up on other, premium boards. I don't beleive it, but some percieve that to be the case.

Well, for a PG, that sounds like a dream come true.

Also, why is his group of advisors so set on Memphis. Yes, they have a talented team coming in. There are 2 other frosh coming in who look good. Unless Mike Davis at UAB gets a high profile job at say UVA and brings Demarcus Cousins along.

For Sure, Xavier Henry will be at Memphis. He might be the only guard in the USA better than Wall in this class. If Cousins is there, Wall might end up being the Third Best player in his CLASS. Sidekicks don't get big bucks in endorsements.

Being the lead Dog at Duke would be awesome.

We would still lack a true post, but suddenly our mobile bigs become HUGE assets, clearing out the lane for Wall, crashing after him, or getting fat off dump-offs after Wall penetrates the first line of Defenders. That looks good.

or

Wall could be passing to a low post banger with an NBA ready body and game, and then watch as said post executes NBA level moves, gets himself a shot, and cleans up rebounds. A post who will be anchored in the lane, along with his defender and the off defender who is slouching down off him. If that isn't available, Wall can pass to the 6-6 guard with good athleticism and a great shot. Wall can then stand arround and watch that guard create for himself by driving or shooting.

Basically Wall can make some college players look like future pros, or he can make surefire future pros look like, well, what they are.

Yes, Wall has a chance to win the title at Memphis. Given their personell, probably a better chance at Memphis than at Duke, even with Hendo.

But, he also runs the risk of not getting credit for it. I am begining to think that many top level recruits value winning only if they play a key role in winning.

At Duke, he would get a lot of credit for Duke returning to the ranks of elite teams, assuming a strong March run. The media would fawn on him, and show his sick Mom at every game. Which she could practically walk too, much less drive. There would be a lot of stories about Wall and what he did for Duke, as well as stories about how he and K or (insert upstanding assistant coach here) bonded and how far Wall has come as a person.

At Memphis, Wall would be part of three elite recruits. I mean elite. One of the best all time classes elite. The top center, the top SG, and the Top PG. There are a lot of stories there. And none of them center on Wall.

As this site is fond of pointing out, there is no salary cap on endorsements. Every contract Wall signs in the NBA already has a ceiling. Assuming he gets max contracts in the league, Wall already knows essentially how much he will make palying ball. Endorsement have no cap. But, in today's market, endorsers only hand out money to elite talents who also have a great story.

The book on John Wall:
He is a inner-city African American with a tough story. This is what is known as street cred to advertisers and the young male population. In a rap obsessed youth culture this plays a lot better than growing up in a subburb. The downside risk of the street cred is that it can offend the sensibilities of middle America. Basically the parents of those suburban kids won't want to shell out big bucks for someone they find off-putting or offensive.

What to do, what to do? WHAT TO DO?

If only there were a school universally acknowledged to be run by a guy who doesn't put up with any sort shadiness. A coach with an almost, dare I say, military mentality. A good rep for winning. More than that. Winning the right way. Who does so with kids who those suburban parents would want their own children to hang out with. (Heck, a few of those kids look like our son's friends.) A coach with great kids on a team that is on TV all the time. With a top notch academic reputation that plays in one of the most storied sports arenas in American History.

If only such a school existed. You know, close to home.

Also, that trip to Memphis from Raleigh is brutal. His mom would spend more time in the air during her flight than the drive to CIS would take. Also, Clemson, WFU, UNC, NCSU, GT and VT are all doable drives from Raleigh. Have you seen where some of those C-USA teams are located.

And now for something completely different. Except I have said it a few times.

Folks, that Nova loss was brutal. We looked horrible. And that could save us.

Without Hendo, we are desparate at the guard. Jon, Nolan, and E-Will will be Ok next year, and so will Duke. If no one gets hurt. Or has a bad year. Or a bad shooting night. Or gets in foul trouble.

The margin for error is RAZOR thin in the backcourt.

Wall can change that. Duke becomes a top 10 lock preseason. Even with Hendo, that is the best we can hope for, bascially taking team that got crushed in the Sweet 16 with only a few additions forward. Wall is top 10 preseason, dangerous by Feb, and terrifying by the ACC tourney.

Wall sees a Duke team with no post player that has to be fed the ball. Or, really, that deserves to be fed the ball. If our entire rotation of bigs (not including Kyle) only rebound, play D, and get 10-15 junk pts a game combined this board will be ESCTATIC. There are wings in Nolan and E-Will who can slash for Alley Oops. Mobile bigs who will do the same. Capable three point shooters (maybe better against a Defense living in fear of a slashing PG who will posterize your entire team). Big who don't expect too much, but whose strengths mesh will Wall's abilities.

Frankly, our team is geared for a ball dominating, penetrating PG who can spread it arround. We just don't have that guard. The entire world saw that on Thursday. Wall, and his advisors, must have seen the starring role he could play.

Wall could make our team next year.
If Hendo works on his handle and comes back.He is too easy to strip at the moment. Wall would be a coup. It just seems he is tailor made for Memphis State.:eek:

[dukeballer2294]

I heard or read somewhere the Wall hopes to make his decision at the Jordan game

[grossbus]

diddy, good post, a fun read. :)

[loran16]

Then a natural question to me is how does this effect the recruitment of Bledsoe? I know Wall is the better talent, so is it likely that Duke is waiting to see what Wall will do before extending an offer to Bledsoe? Bledsoe could have made up his mind by that point and be headed elsewhere. I would guess that Wall's impending visit has a lot to do with that, after which K will extend an offer to Wall if he feels it is a good fit. I just would hate to see all the eggs go into the Wall basket, and that basket be taken to Memphis. It would be bad to miss on both guys. It seems like a tight spot, but I have to imagine that K has been in this type of situation before and will handle it accordingly.

Given what we've heard about Bledsoe's ACT retaking and his desire to play for Duke if offered, i think duke can hold out on offering bledsoe until the Wall bit plays out.

[gwwilburn]

Honestly, Wall would be sort of a quick fix that would be an addition to next year's seniors. After that, its time to rely upon the 2010 class. If I'm not mistaken, Memphis did a similar thing with Derek Rose and if they could have hit their free throws it would have turned out great for them.

[chrisheery]

is it 5+3 (or 3+5)? I am asking because I am wondering if we could take Wall AND Bledsoe. Seems that most people think Bledsoe will not be ready to take over as a freshman, but he could be great in 1-2 years. Do we have enough scholarships? Wall would be gone and Bledsoe could move into the starting role, giving Thornton a chance to learn for a year. I also wonder what getting either of these guys (or both?) would change in the Seth Curry scenario. Man, this is a lot to think about. I assume Coach K and his team have thought through it all and have backup to their backup plans.

As to Wall, I have no problem with a 1 and done guy if he doesn't hurt the reputation of our school. He's a stud. If a high school student came to college with 20 AP credits and was able to graduate in 1 year and go on to a job that paid him 3 million a year in a business setting, Duke would be proud to have him/her. I know its not exactly the same thing, but Wall would be coming to Duke to get an education on life, basketball, and the process of learning everyday (which is the most important thing I took from college). If he can get even 1/4 of what most 4 year students get at Duke, he's still far better off for the rest of his life than someone who didn't get to go to college at all.

[bcato]

There is no longer a 5+3 or 3+5 rule. Been gone about 2 or 3 years now

[BlueintheFace]

is it 5+3 (or 3+5)? I am asking because I am wondering if we could take Wall AND Bledsoe. Seems that most people think Bledsoe will not be ready to take over as a freshman, but he could be great in 1-2 years. Do we have enough scholarships? Wall would be gone and Bledsoe could move into the starting role, giving Thornton a chance to learn for a year. I also wonder what getting either of these guys (or both?) would change in the Seth Curry scenario. Man, this is a lot to think about. I assume Coach K and his team have thought through it all and have backup to their backup plans.

As to Wall, I have no problem with a 1 and done guy if he doesn't hurt the reputation of our school. He's a stud. If a high school student came to college with 20 AP credits and was able to graduate in 1 year and go on to a job that paid him 3 million a year in a business setting, Duke would be proud to have him/her. I know its not exactly the same thing, but Wall would be coming to Duke to get an education on life, basketball, and the process of learning everyday (which is the most important thing I took from college). If he can get even 1/4 of what most 4 year students get at Duke, he's still far better off for the rest of his life than someone who didn't get to go to college at all.

We will only take one. Our 2010 class will most likely have 2 pg's.

[watzone]

The posts that bothered me were removed by the mods after this post. Thank you.

I just hope that those who might be reading this thread realize that some of these posts are not a refelection of the Duke fanbase as a whole. I really don't think writing to John Wall is appropriate here, be it a joke or not. Stick with your opinions and quit meddling with the process. Duke doesn't need it's fans to be in the middle of their business, especially where recruiting is concerned. I have seen a lot of beliefs in this thread that have no merit. Some of you seem to take everything you read on a message board or hearsay as fact and use that to form a not so factual opinion. It seems some of you know enough about Wall to have been one of his handlers. For gosh sakes, pleading that Wall doesn't do this or that is ridiculous and far from discussion. Heck, the what-if's apply to everything and when used often means one doesn't fully understand the situation. Coach K will not make a bad move here. He will not hurt the program. If he sees Wall as being an option, then I trust his judgement. Afterall, he never offers a ride until he has met with a prospect face to face. K has proven that he can mold young men and get them to the next level and no K coached ex player seems to be hurting. I will get off my horse now.

[chrisheery]

We will only take one. Our 2010 class will most likely have 2 pg's.

Why, are you banking on Knight or Irving? Those guys are both top 5 PGs from what I can tell and being certain that we get one of them seems a bit dicey. A Bledsoe in the hand, so to speak . . .

[BlueintheFace]

I will get off my horse now.

I very much appreciate your contributions Watzone, but I find it to be a particularly high one today. Considering the recent reports about how widespread these potentially dangerous (for basketball programs) relationships with "runners," "agents," and "inner circles" are in conjunction with all that has been written about John Wall and the people around him.... I think it is perfectly reasonable to be concerned.

Are we really afraid that John Wall will be discouraged by posts on the 1,000th page of a thread on DBR implying that he might be a risk and that the fans would only like him to come if he doesn't hurt the program?

[SupaDave]

I very much appreciate your contributions Watzone, but I find it to be a particularly high one today. Considering the recent reports about how widespread these potentially dangerous (for basketball programs) relationships with "runners," "agents," and "inner circles" are in conjunction with all that has been written about John Wall and the people around him.... I think it is perfectly reasonable to be concerned.

Are we really afraid that John Wall will be discouraged by posts on the 1,000th page of a thread on DBR implying that he might be a risk and that the fans would only like him to come if he doesn't hurt the program?

Doesn't matter which number it is. Please use your heads here. As fans we can be critical without predicting doomsday. Spread love. Cause this IS college where even the most well behaved can find themself drunk on someone's couch....

There is a reason Coach K is the coach of this basketball team and MOST of you are not. Look how irrational some of you sound. Sure, to some, this may not be a match made in heaven. BUT at the same time there are many that see the value in Wall. It is up to K to decide what's best for the team and the program. Wall may come into his office and be something that NONE of us expect him to be.

Let me tell you b/c I've read a lot of foolishness. Being from the "inner-city" does not make you tough. It does not mean you're black. And it most definitely doesn't mean that you're poor. It certainly doesn't mean you're bad mannered or somehow subject to extreme athleticism.

No matter what the sport, there is a cream of the crop and when you have that you have all sorts of intangibles no matter what the case may be. We've lost recruits based on these sort of things and quite a few of those guys were not black, from the inner-city, or SOFT.

Let's not look at Wall any other way than how he could help a program. If K brings him in then I'm most certain that everything is legit. If K decides to pass then I'm sure that we have other options - especially at the current moment.

Handlers or not, no matter where he goes - they will be in the picture but they will not be his coaches (except at Baylor of course who could really use a dynamic point guard, but who couldn't right?).

To try and predict the future of a high schooler is futile. How many of you have ever been been hurt by continuous prognoses on your future, merit, integrity, and your very own manhood? It may be "just" a message board but I believe that the energy you put out is the energy you get. The Crazies would most definitely serenade Wall - so why can't you?

There's no greater inspiration than feeling wanted and loved. Put those two together for a person with the skills and the talent and watch him take off.

I don't care WHERE Wall goes but I wish the young man the best b/c he's actually making an active decision to further his education rather than go the Brandon Jennings route - which he could. College for just one year is incredible for the development any young mind. Most kids don't know what it's like to even wash their own clothes.

To put it in perspective, I'm from a place where I'm happy that his handlers aren't dope dealers but actual basketball guys. Trust me, there's plenty of that out there. To me he just sounds like a young man that wants to make his momma proud. How could you dislike that? The rest will sort itself out.

By the way, every time there's a response - most of us an get an email, so EVERYTHING is new and that's usually the last impression we leave.

As a matter of fact, I recommend that all of you go out and rent "He got game" by Spike Lee with Ray Allen as "Jesus". If you haven't seen it then it will give you a smidgeon of Wall's situation.

It's a lot to be asked to be the bread winner when you're 17 - just think about that...

Supa "I'm sorry for my rant - seriously" Dave

[Wildling]

I have been following this topic all day after I heard he was visiting Duke this weekend.

Any word yet if he in fact did visit? And if he did, did K offer a scholarship? I am leaving to go out of town, I am dying to know something before I leave :eek:

[ForeverBlowingBubbles]

K offered him a scholarship today.

[Truth]

K offered him a scholarship today.

Is this confirmed? How do you know?

[RainingThrees]

Getting Wall would be a perfect. I only hope Seth Curry creates a snowball effect that brings in Wall, and then hopefully Barnes and maybe Brandon Knight or somebody else from the 2010 class.

[loran16]

K offered him a scholarship today.

I've heard this as well, but afaik its still unofficial atm (i assume they'll make an announcement or however they do it tomorrow).

Which just means....what? We won't know till Wall states something himself really. All it means is that option one of the three previously stated by me (K doesnt offer him a scholarship, Wall goes to Memphis) isn't happening and either option B (Wall wasn't convinced by K to come here really, Wall to Memphis) or option C (Wall's visit and talk with K convinces wall to come to Duke) has occured. But once again we'll not know the answer to this for a bit now.

[Duke3517]

Also Cal and Kentucky have mutual interests....

[BlueintheFace]

ESPN is reporting that Coach Calipari might be open to advances from Kentucky. This could have some effect on Wall's decision. Of course, it might not have any effect at all.

[loran16]

Also Cal and Kentucky have mutual interests....

Baloney. Calipari is using Kentucky to get more money from Memphis. No way with Memphis' recruiting class would Calipari choose THIS year to leave. And this is without the chance at Wall.

EDIT: Also remember that back when Tubby left UK, we thought that'd end Patterson's interest there....but Patterson went there anyway. If Memphis' recruits agreed to stay committed even if Cal left, I'd think Wall'd still be interested.

[dukeballer2294]

Also Cal and Kentucky have mutual interests....

If that happened there other 2 superstar recruits (Cousins and Henry) plus Evans might reconsider going to Memphis and staying at Memphis respectifully

[Greg_Newton]

I'll try not to get my hopes up, because it still feels like a long shot. However, if there was an offer extended today, it's a sign that there's at least still hope... I know a lot of folks viewed this meeting as "do or die", and it obviously went well enough to avoid the "die" scenario. If K were to somehow pull this off, it would be absolutely huge for the program on the heels of the Seth Curry announcement, IMO.

Also, for what it's worth, I would recommend youtubing around for an interview with him if you've gotten an uneasy feeling about what you've read about the whole "handler" situation. I did this a while back after I read all the rumors, and I was kind of expecting him to have a cocky/abrasive attitude. However, I could not have been more wrong - from what I've seen, he is about as likeable, polite and well-spoken as you could possibly expect from a seventeen year old kid, not to mention the best HS basketball player in the country. Given that we are complete outsiders to him and his situation, I don't think it's fair to assume anything else about him based solely on rumors and statements from adults that happen to be connected to him... remember, he's 17! I would be absolutely ecstatic to see him in a Duke uniform, but I will enjoy watching him wherever he is next year. Especially if it's Duke...

[ice-9]

Ewing, E-will...give him a break. :)

It's amazing how often I make this mistake! I've done it a few times here before at DBR, and there have been many more posts where I realized I made the error in preview mode.

[watzone]

Is this confirmed? How do you know?

Internet message boards are full of "I heards," many of which are guesses. K is talking to Wall so K will offer Wall. IMO, any "strong" statement should have a link to add validity.

I am not sure where all this information like "I'm hearing" comes from,"

I will share a sentence which pretty much says it all. Wall told me, "It was great," in reference to how his visit went earlier this evening. IOW, it was a good visit.

[loran16]

I will share a sentence which pretty much says it all. Wall told me, "It was great," in reference to how his visit went earlier this evening. IOW, it was a good visit.

Which is a probable yes on "he got an offer."

You know, people can talk and can hear about these things from random sources. Friends of players or friends of say team managers can hear from these people and can tell others who post it on things like message boards. Not saying that's where i "heard it," but that you don't need to be all pushy about people claiming to know when you either don't know for sure or haven't told us yet.

(And that's all i'll say otherwise besides the fact that Wall said it was a great visit is a good sign, though i expect him to say that to anyone who asks at this point until he makes his decision unless duke didn't offer him a scholarship)

[RainingThrees]

Doesn't rivals show that we have offered?

[BlueintheFace]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/11564471


But those close to Calipari believe it's possible to take parts of that recruiting class to Kentucky -- specifically unsigned prospects DeMarcus Cousins and John Wall -- and that if Calipari could pair it with Patrick Patterson and Jodie Meeks the Wildcats might threaten for a Final Four next season.

Interesting...

[ChicagoCrazy84]

Everything that has transpired since Duke's loss to Nova is a great sign of things to come. It has really showed that Coach K and the staff really took that loss seriously and realized they had work to do. To initiate talks with Wall and snagging the most highly coveted transfer in no time shows this summer will really be exciting for Duke basketball and all the fans. I can't wait to hear what happens with Wall and loking a little further down the road, Harrison Barnes. Duke is back baby, Go Devils!!

[geraldsneighbor]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/11564471



Interesting...


Xavier Henry really gets the shaft. Enjoy Conference USA I guess.

[NSDukeFan]

Everything that has transpired since Duke's loss to Nova is a great sign of things to come. It has really showed that Coach K and the staff really took that loss seriously and realized they had work to do. To initiate talks with Wall and snagging the most highly coveted transfer in no time shows this summer will really be exciting for Duke basketball and all the fans. I can't wait to hear what happens with Wall and loking a little further down the road, Harrison Barnes. Duke is back baby, Go Devils!!

I'm not sure that the loss to Nova all of a sudden made Coach K decide that it would be nice to have good players at Duke. Sure, the loss gave us some extra time to pursue these players earlier, but I am pretty sure they would have done that, win or lose. We have a lot of great players, including one more as of yesterday and hopefully some more in the near future. I am really excited for our depth in the frontcourt next year and one more guard (say the top rated point guard in the country) would give us fantastic depth in the backcourt. If we were somehow able to keep a first team all ACC performer, wow, what a team and what practices we would have! Even if we don't land Wall and G goes, I would again look forward to watching this fantastic team that I think would have as good a shot at the final four as anyone.

[GarrickB28]

Does anyone know what the Scout.com interview with John said regarding his visit to Duke.
Also, does anyone know what type of relationship we have with his AAU coach. I know Ryan Kelly played for the same team.

[dukeballer2294]

Xavier Henry really gets the shaft. Enjoy Conference USA I guess.

I thought that if he wants to he can as for a leave of his letter of intent or is that up to the AD

[ChicagoCrazy84]

I thought that if he wants to he can as for a leave of his letter of intent or is that up to the AD

I believe that is up to the AD when letters are actually signed. The same thing happened with Jeff Withey at Arizona when it was announced that Lute Olsen would be retiring. At first, the AD at Arizona would not grant him to leave until the next year or something and that casued a little bit of an uproar from the general public. I think in this situation, it would be a little of the same. I can't imagine the AD would say "yeah, no problem!"

I wonder who they would have coach Memphis if he did decide to leave. Josh Pastner? Rod Strickland? I am not sure if this is good for Duke if he does leave, I guess it can't hurt. I just hope Wall doesn't go to Kentucky just to play for Cal. That would be lame.

[roywhite]

There's considerable discussion on thedevilsden.com free board about the Wall visit, and they quote from the Wake free board, which apparently got some premium information somewhere else. What I'm saying is---if this information is not suitable or against DBR policy, please feel free to delete or discipline:

The visit went very well. A scholarship was offered to John Wall. John Wall made some very positive comments.

[Rudy]

I've been wondering as I read this thread if Coach K would turn over his veteran team, as next year's would be, to a freshman point guard. Then I remembered the last time he did that the team went 32-4, a pretty good year even if a disappointing final game.

[grossbus]

"I've been wondering as I read this thread if Coach K would turn over his veteran team, as next year's would be, to a freshman point guard"

seeing as how it is almost a certainty that he would be here only one year, i think it would be pretty much assured that he would.

[CDu]

I've been wondering as I read this thread if Coach K would turn over his veteran team, as next year's would be, to a freshman point guard. Then I remembered the last time he did that the team went 32-4, a pretty good year even if a disappointing final game.

He's done it a few times:

2005-2006: Greg Paulus (32-4)
1999-2000: Jason Williams (29-5)
1989-1990: Bobby Hurley (32-7)

If Coach K thinks the kid is ready (or has no other choice), he'll give the kid the ball.

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

He's done it a few times:

2005-2006: Greg Paulus (32-4)
1999-2000: Jason Williams (29-5)
1989-1990: Bobby Hurley (32-7)

If Coach K thinks the kid is ready (or has no other choice), he'll give the kid the ball.

And even if he doesn't turn Wall loose from day 1 (which I'd expect him to do), there's still the possibility that he enters the starting lineup later in the season to play beside an older combo guard. That worked out pretty well with Duhon...

[geraldsneighbor]

And even if he doesn't turn Wall loose from day 1 (which I'd expect him to do), there's still the possibility that he enters the starting lineup later in the season to play beside an older combo guard. That worked out pretty well with Duhon...

That did work out pretty well if memory serves correctly. Also, they had a pretty decent transfer entering who practiced with them all year..

[KyDevilinIL]

Rick Bozich doesn't reveal his sources and/or reason for typing the following sentence, but he types it anyway on his blog at the Louisville Courier-Journal site:

"Don't be surprised if Cal signs John Wall and DeMarcus Cousins not long after he gets to UK.

http://www.courier-journal.com/blogs/bozich/blog.html

[geraldsneighbor]

Rick Bozich doesn't reveal his sources and/or reason for typing the following sentence, but he types it anyway on his blog at the Louisville Courier-Journal site:

"Don't be surprised if Cal signs John Wall and DeMarcus Cousins not long after he gets to UK.

http://www.courier-journal.com/blogs/bozich/blog.html

If Wall wants go with Cal maybe he isn't the guy we want anyway...

[grossbus]

if K wants him, i want him.

[BlueintheFace]

One thing that has not been discussed is whether or not Calipari will even have room for Wall. He would have to cut/ release 2 recruits/players to get Cousins AND Wall on the team.

If the Kentucky recruits for next season want to stay, then there would have to be some pretty unethical shuffling going on to allow Wall to join the team with a scholarship. I guess that wouldn't surprise me....

[DUKIECB]

I'm sorry if this has already been mentioned, but when does he have to make his decision by?

[ChicagoCrazy84]

You gotta feel for Memphis in this situation. He would completely rip that town's heart out if he goes and takes everyone with him. With that said, why would everyone, including Wall, got to Kentucky? They already have a solid core of Meeks and Patterson. I personally don't think Wall would leave if that were the case. I would bet on him signing with Duke if Cal leaves. That is merely some hometown blogger giving the best case scenario for a Kentucky program that is desperate for good news. Besides, doesn't kentucky already have a PG signed in Jon Hood?

[roywhite]

I'm sorry if this has already been mentioned, but when does he have to make his decision by?

Lance Thomas didn't announce for Duke until May 4. I'm not sure there is much of an actual deadline, other than starting summer school.

[Greg_Newton]

If Wall wants go with Cal maybe he isn't the guy we want anyway...

Oh boy, let's not get into this again...

He is exactly the guy we want. I just wonder what effect Calipari going from Memphis to UK will have on our chances? I would assume it would have to be a net positive effect... you would think that after Cal has been selling him on a particular university and situation for so long, it would be somewhat of a setback to have to start all over. However, I suppose the flip side of that is that there are many draws that UK has (rabid fan base, tradition) that Memphis doesn't, and it may turn out that the personnel and coaches end up being very similar to what would have been at Memphis anyway. And I suppose there's always the possibility that Cal has been selling the possibility of following him to UK in private for longer than we've been aware.

It still feels like quite a long shot, but given the reportedly positive meeting with K yesterday coupled with this little shake-up, I've still got a tiny bit of hope.

EDIT: Just read Blueintheface's comment... that's a very interesting point. Has anyone read anything addressing this potential conflict (UK scholarship situation)? It seems like most articles have skipped over this issue, and just assumed Cal would be bringing them both along.

[KyDevilinIL]

Besides, doesn't kentucky already have a PG signed in Jon Hood?

Hood is 6-6 and ostensibly played forward in high school. I haven't heard of anyone at UK having any intention of using Hood as a PG.

[nyr484]

One thing that has not been discussed is whether or not Calipari will even have room for Wall. He would have to cut/ release 2 recruits/players to get Cousins AND Wall on the team.

If the Kentucky recruits for next season want to stay, then there would have to be some pretty unethical shuffling going on to allow Wall to join the team with a scholarship. I guess that wouldn't surprise me....

That's a good point. All of these so-called experts with real journalism jobs seem very eager to say Wall, Cousins, and Henry will all be going to UK with Calipari. But, none of them seem to want to do any real research into whether or not this is a practical possibility. You also make a good point that some unethical shuffling would not be much of a surprise.

One point here that I think is interesting: Calipari has been recruiting Wall and the others to go to Memphis, not UK. Why would a recruit just follow the coach? Don't you think they care about the school somewhat?

Either way, it seems to me that this is a very easily exploitable weakness in Calipari's recruiting pitch. I know Coach K and Duke do not like to negative recruit. But, in this case, the obvious point is that Calipari recruited all these guys to Memphis and then bounced at the first opportunity for a better job. Calipari is quoted as saying that UK is to basketball as Notre Dame is to football, and I would guess that would be his major pitch to the recruits. I would argue he's wrong. UK is another public school with a decent pedigree of basketball (similar to Indiana, UCLA, and UNC). If anything, Duke is more of the Notre Dame of basketball.

[gvtucker]

EDIT: Just read Blueintheface's comment... that's a very interesting point. Has anyone read anything addressing this potential conflict (UK scholarship situation)? It seems like most articles have skipped over this issue, and just assumed Cal would be bringing them both along.

Well, technically, it isn't an issue at all. Scholarships are only one year commitments by the school. If there are kids that Calipari wanted to bring in, he could easily just not renew the scholarships of a couple of less talented players.

That isn't something that happens everywhere, but it does happen a whole lot more than you'd think when there is a coaching change.

There are certainly some ethical issues involved, but that isn't against the rules.

[camion]

Anyone think that Calipari would lose sleep over this ethical issue?

[KyDevilinIL]

One thing that has not been discussed is whether or not Calipari will even have room for Wall. He would have to cut/ release 2 recruits/players to get Cousins AND Wall on the team.

If the Kentucky recruits for next season want to stay, then there would have to be some pretty unethical shuffling going on to allow Wall to join the team with a scholarship. I guess that wouldn't surprise me....

Valid point, but there has been some chatter about some of Gillispie's recruits opting not to come to UK, and who knows if they'll be energized or upset about Calipari's hire.

Also, there are transfer rumors about essentially every one of UK's returnees, save for Meeks, who would just go pro if he didn't want to play for Cal.

Bottom line, if Cal says he can bring the No. 1 PG prospect in the country along with any other members of his highly rated class, UK will find a way to make it happen. UK apparently is forking over $32M over eight years for Cal, so they don't seem likely to let something so small as rules get in the way of wins.

[DDB4208]

IMO Xavier Henry will not follow Cal. He said he picked Memphis over Kansas so that he could play with his older bro, plus he already signed.

IMO Demarcus Cousins will follow Cal because he has showed that allegiance to a coach before (committed to Mike Davis before seeing the UAB campus and demcommitted when Davis wasn't guarenteed to be the coach there)

Wall is now being recruited being recruited by a college with great tradition and it has the same perks that Memphis had (Calipari, dribble drive offense, etc.) but it doesn't yet have the fabulous freshman class that J-Wall said it would be cool to be a part of. I don't think it was that important to him but Henry and Cousins were recruiting him too.

I know that this probably isn't on very many people's minds but if we cannot get Wall this means that Kentucky isn't recruiting Eric Bledsoe anymore.

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

Either way, it seems to me that this is a very easily exploitable weakness in Calipari's recruiting pitch. I know Coach K and Duke do not like to negative recruit. But, in this case, the obvious point is that Calipari recruited all these guys to Memphis and then bounced at the first opportunity for a better job. Calipari is quoted as saying that UK is to basketball as Notre Dame is to football, and I would guess that would be his major pitch to the recruits. I would argue he's wrong. UK is another public school with a decent pedigree of basketball (similar to Indiana, UCLA, and UNC). If anything, Duke is more of the Notre Dame of basketball.

I certainly hope that Duke basketball doesn't turn out to be like Notre Dame football of recent years!

[UrinalCake]

I don't believe a school is allowed to revoke a player's scholarship just because a better player comes along. I could be wrong about that though. Usually what happens is the coach "persuades" the player to transfer.

[Maxwell1977]

I don't believe a school is allowed to revoke a player's scholarship just because a better player comes along. I could be wrong about that though. Usually what happens is the coach "persuades" the player to transfer.

I believe the scholarships are year to year. Some schools do run players off.

[arnie]

I believe the scholarships are year to year. Some schools do run players off.

That's how Butch Davis does it in football.

[jimsumner]

Scholarships are indeed one-year, renewable at the discretion of the school, and no cause is needed to not renew.

That said, this happens a lot more often in football than in basketball.

[Bluedog]

Scholarships are indeed one-year, renewable at the discretion of the school, and no cause is needed to not renew.

That said, this happens a lot more often in football than in basketball.

The scholarships for next year aren't set then even for those incoming freshman who signed a LOI? I could see Cal telling Tucker (1 star) and Vilarino (3 stars) there aren't scholarships available for them anymore....That'd seem to be in pretty bad taste for incoming freshman though, IMO. At what time can a school no longer revoke a scholarship? Beginning of the school year?

http://kentucky.scout.com/a.z?s=48&p=9&c=4&cfg=bb&yr=2009

[UrinalCake]

A found a link that's kind of hokey and maybe a little outdated, but here you go FWIW:

http://www.bball1.com/recruiting_scholarships.htm

Renewal of Scholarships
Scholarships are not guaranteed for four years but renewed each year. Some schools will verbally guarantee them for all 4+ years you are at the school. If coaches at bigger schools with well-known reputations started revoking scholarships of players because they didn’t play well after a year, those coaches would never be able to sign another recruit. A D1 or D2 institution must inform you by July 1 in writing whether your grant for the upcoming year has been renewed. If your scholarship is not renewed, you can request a hearing with school officials outside of the athletic department. We haven't come across any cases of scholarships not being renewed because of poor athletic performance, and a school doing this to even one recruit would probably cause more harm to their recruiting efforts. It can happen when new coaches are hired though!

[94duke]

A found a link that's kind of hokey and maybe a little outdated, but here you go FWIW:

http://www.bball1.com/recruiting_scholarships.htm

Renewal of Scholarships
Scholarships are not guaranteed for four years but renewed each year. Some schools will verbally guarantee them for all 4+ years you are at the school. If coaches at bigger schools with well-known reputations started revoking scholarships of players because they didn’t play well after a year, those coaches would never be able to sign another recruit. A D1 or D2 institution must inform you by July 1 in writing whether your grant for the upcoming year has been renewed. If your scholarship is not renewed, you can request a hearing with school officials outside of the athletic department. We haven't come across any cases of scholarships not being renewed because of poor athletic performance, and a school doing this to even one recruit would probably cause more harm to their recruiting efforts. It can happen when new coaches are hired though!

Pete Gillen didn't renew Majestic Mapp's last year of eligibility:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D05E2D7143CF931A25750C0A9639C8B 63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=2

[Stray Gator]

I could be mistaken, but I seem to recall Rick Majerus not renewing some scholarships both at Utah and at St. Louis U.

[roywhite]

I could be mistaken, but I seem to recall Rick Majerus not renewing some scholarships both at Utah and at St. Louis U.

Rick explained their "calves no longer looked good". :)

[FireOgilvie]

Scholarships are indeed one-year, renewable at the discretion of the school, and no cause is needed to not renew.

That said, this happens a lot more often in football than in basketball.

Didn't Tommy Amaker do that last year at Harvard? He kicked multiple people off the team to bring in his recruiting class.

[flyingdutchdevil]

One point here that I think is interesting: Calipari has been recruiting Wall and the others to go to Memphis, not UK. Why would a recruit just follow the coach? Don't you think they care about the school somewhat?



Ummm..... I think a coach is the most important factor for a player. A coach dictates style of play, playing time, his view of where you lie.

If coaches aren't the deciding factor, then what brought all of our McD AA's to Duke? The amazing Southern BBQ? Duke is Coach K when it comes to basketball.

If Cal goes to UK, it wouldn't surprise me if Wall goes to UK. However, if Wall goes to Memphis while Cal is at UK, that would surprise the hell out of me.

That said, if Cal goes to UK and understanding their scholy situation, I like our chances. Wall will be a stud and I want him.

[RainingThrees]

Ummm..... I think a coach is the most important factor for a player. A coach dictates style of play, playing time, his view of where you lie.

If coaches aren't the deciding factor, then what brought all of our McD AA's to Duke? The amazing Southern BBQ? Duke is Coach K when it comes to basketball.

If Cal goes to UK, it wouldn't surprise me if Wall goes to UK. However, if Wall goes to Memphis while Cal is at UK, that would surprise the hell out of me.

That said, if Cal goes to UK and understanding their scholy situation, I like our chances. Wall will be a stud and I want him.

That Southern BBQ is very tasty.

[loran16]

Its a problem in college bball...with the exception of named, storied programs (Lets say UK for some part, Duke, UNC, Michigan State, UCLA, etc in the major conferneces), recruits are sold on COACHES, not on the SCHOOLs.

its really against the spirit of college basketball...personally i find it a bit appalling. I applauded Wake's frosh class this year who stayed on even after Skip Prosser died, despite being able to go elsewhere....but these guys are just yuck.

Like, i don't mind a player decommitting if a school's coach leaves, like Miles did, or countless others have done. But if they basically use that to follow the coach to another school, allowing coaches to be bought and bring over recruits for money...it just seems dirty.

[geraldsneighbor]

[QUOTE=flyingdutchdevil;280747]

That Southern BBQ is very tasty.

I gotta go eat dinner now...and I wish I had BBQ near by.

[geraldsneighbor]

Its a problem in college bball...with the exception of named, storied programs (Lets say UK for some part, Duke, UNC, Michigan State, UCLA, etc in the major conferneces), recruits are sold on COACHES, not on the SCHOOLs.

its really against the spirit of college basketball...personally i find it a bit appalling. I applauded Wake's frosh class this year who stayed on even after Skip Prosser died, despite being able to go elsewhere....but these guys are just yuck.

Like, i don't mind a player decommitting if a school's coach leaves, like Miles did, or countless others have done. But if they basically use that to follow the coach to another school, allowing coaches to be bought and bring over recruits for money...it just seems dirty.


Huggins thought that he could get Beasley to do that. That would have been a problem.

[tallguy]

Didn't Tommy Amaker do that last year at Harvard? He kicked multiple people off the team to bring in his recruiting class.

If he did, it had nothing to do with scholarships, considering that the Ivy League has no athletic scholarships.

Bobby Cremins did it at GaTech after the '97 season...he ran off his 2 starting guards.

[FireOgilvie]

If he did, it had nothing to do with scholarships, considering that the Ivy League has no athletic scholarships.

Bobby Cremins did it at GaTech after the '97 season...he ran off his 2 starting guards.

Right, I know. But even though Harvard doesn't award money, they still have to sign a "likely" letter saying they will play there, similar to a letter of intent. My point is a lot of coaches kick people off the team to make room... so I wouldn't be surprised to see a guy like Calipari do it.

[ChicagoCrazy84]

Can I just bring up the old point that as of 2-3 days ago, the Wall sweepstakes was virtually down to Duke and Memphis? And with Calipari most likely going to UK with a slew of scholarships alread on hand there, doesn't it make it seem we're in a good position?

[turnandburn55]

If he did, it had nothing to do with scholarships, considering that the Ivy League has no athletic scholarships.

That's always bothered me somewhat... I've known a few guys who've played D-I sports at Ivy League schools who've said that the elite athletes somehow always end up going there for free...

[jimsumner]

The Ivy-League schools give need-based scholarships. I suspect lots of athletes qualify.

[chrisheery]

Can we focus? Are we going to get Wall? I want him. He is dynamic.

[SupaDave]

One point here that I think is interesting: Calipari has been recruiting Wall and the others to go to Memphis, not UK. Why would a recruit just follow the coach? Don't you think they care about the school somewhat?


Ummm..... I think a coach is the most important factor for a player. A coach dictates style of play, playing time, his view of where you lie.

If coaches aren't the deciding factor, then what brought all of our McD AA's to Duke? The amazing Southern BBQ? Duke is Coach K when it comes to basketball.

If Cal goes to UK, it wouldn't surprise me if Wall goes to UK. However, if Wall goes to Memphis while Cal is at UK, that would surprise the hell out of me.

That said, if Cal goes to UK and understanding their scholy situation, I like our chances. Wall will be a stud and I want him.

While I understand your premise - your statement is ridiculous. There are kids that grow up their whole life wanting to play for certain schools and then there are those kids like Battier that go to a school that fits their needs.

Take Jeff Jordan for example, you think he couldn't have walked on at UNC? They sure do have a pretty decent coach. He would have gotten plenty of PT on their JV squad and sat the bench the following year. Instead he chose Illinois for a number of reasons - one of which was that he'd be closer to home. I think if you look at the national averages you'd find that the predominate factor in recruits decision is proximity to friends and family. There are Dukes and UKs but there are also Virginia Unions, Butlers, and Kent States.

To further drive this point home, can you remember what OJ Mayo's deciding factors were for attending USC? The coach was about last on the list.

[DDB4208]

Possible Lineups we could have if we had J-Will and G (Optimism). I think it gives us so many different looks.

Athleticism
J-Wall
Elliott/Nolan
Gerald
Lance
MP1/MP2/Kyle

Rebounding
Jon
Elliott/G
Kyle
Lance
Zoubek

Big
Jon
G
Kyle
Lance/Miles/MP2/Kelly
Zoubek

Fast
J-Wall
Nolan
Elliott
G
Kyle/Lance

Experience
Nolan - jr
Jon - sr
G - sr
Kyle - jr
Lance - sr

3-Point Shooting
Nolan
Jon
G
Kyle
Kelly

Press Defense

Nolan
Elliott
G
Kyle
Lance

[mickeysgotagun]

Does anyone have access to any stories about John Wall's visit to Duke, so far all I can find are summaries.

[loran16]

To further drive this point home, can you remember what OJ Mayo's deciding factors were for attending USC? The coach was about last on the list.

Bad example there....considering that Mayo is pretty well considered to have come to USC due to payment from boosters (or some similar sketchy money bit).

[chrisheery]

Makes sense that G would be in every lineup. I would say that Kyle should be too.

[FireOgilvie]

Possible Lineups we could have if we had J-Will and G (Optimism). I think it gives us so many different looks.

Athleticism
J-Wall
Elliott/Nolan
Gerald
Lance
MP1/MP2/Kyle

Rebounding
Jon
Elliott/G
Kyle
Lance
Zoubek

Big
Jon
G
Kyle
Lance/Miles/MP2/Kelly
Zoubek

Fast
J-Wall
Nolan
Elliott
G
Kyle/Lance

Experience
Nolan - jr
Jon - sr
G - sr
Kyle - jr
Lance - sr

3-Point Shooting
Nolan
Jon
G
Kyle
Kelly

Press Defense

Nolan
Elliott
G
Kyle
Lance

Interesting... Wall is 6'4," so he's also a "big" PG, and he's much more athletic than Scheyer, so I'm sure he could go on the rebounding list as well. If Wall comes and G stays, the team would be absolutely loaded. Someone mentioned this before, but imagine practices with:

"Starters":
John Wall
Jon Scheyer
Gerald Henderson
Kyle Singler
Lance Thomas/Mason Plumlee

vs.

Nolan Smith
Seth Curry
Elliot Williams
Ryan Kelly/Olek Czyz
Brian Zoubek/Miles Plumlee

Wow. That would be intense.

[flyingdutchdevil]

While I understand your premise - your statement is ridiculous. There are kids that grow up their whole life wanting to play for certain schools and then there are those kids like Battier that go to a school that fits their needs.

Take Jeff Jordan for example, you think he couldn't have walked on at UNC? They sure do have a pretty decent coach. He would have gotten plenty of PT on their JV squad and sat the bench the following year. Instead he chose Illinois for a number of reasons - one of which was that he'd be closer to home. I think if you look at the national averages you'd find that the predominate factor in recruits decision is proximity to friends and family. There are Dukes and UKs but there are also Virginia Unions, Butlers, and Kent States.

To further drive this point home, can you remember what OJ Mayo's deciding factors were for attending USC? The coach was about last on the list.

I have no idea what you are arguing here. I'm not arguing that any player can choose to play at the school of their choice - they obviously have to choose a school interested in them (which is why I don't get your Jeff Jordan comment).

Secondly, I'd say that the majority of top recruits, and John Wall clearly is a top recruit, would go for coach / playing time. And I agree with you, being nearer to home is a definite plus. But there's a reason that Louisville has gotten better recruits than UK in the last couple of years - it's coaching, and not tradition (UK has a big plus on that)

[alteran]

The Ivy-League schools give need-based scholarships. I suspect lots of athletes qualify.

Bingo.

[SupaDave]

Bad example there....considering that Mayo is pretty well considered to have come to USC due to payment from boosters (or some similar sketchy money bit).

Sounds like my point exactly.

[roywhite]

SupaDave, I'm liking the way things are going with John Wall and Duke. You told us this might work. If he commits to Duke, do you mind if I refer to you as a prophet, a visionary?

[loran16]

Sounds like my point exactly.

Or not? I think most of us, if not for all of us, were talking about recruits who were not being recruited via shady measures (such as boosters with money).

And the fact that people would leave with Calipari shows that you're not correct.

[turnandburn55]

Bingo.

Interesting. So by that rationale, the whole discussion about scholarships available shouldn't be a factor for the Duke basketball team either... I'd bet that there's probably quite a few recruits we can bring in who qualify for a "need-based" scholarship if we were so inclined to play that game...

Anyways, rant off...

[Coballs]

Does anyone have access to any stories about John Wall's visit to Duke, so far all I can find are summaries.

Here's one:
http://blogs.newsobserver.com/prepsnow/memphis-still-leads-for-john-wall

Unfortunately, he still lists Memphis as his leader, or so says the author.

[Kedsy]

Here's one:
http://blogs.newsobserver.com/prepsnow/memphis-still-leads-for-john-wall

Unfortunately, he still lists Memphis as his leader, or so says the author.

Yeah, but reading between the lines of the quote, it sounds like they're the leader until he hears that Coach Cal is leaving. The real issue (as many here have said) is whether Kentucky will become the leader at that point. Sounds like Duke has a shot, at least.

[lifelongdevil]

the Scout.com article on his meeting with Coach K had quotes from wall and was very positive in regards to the meeting. While this is fairly common when recruits are interviewed by the recruiting services, some of the quotes from John seemed like he really bought in to what K had to say.

[ChicagoCrazy84]

It doesn't make sense to me that he is still listing Miami and NC State. I could kind of see Kansas, but at the same time, if you were actually to go out of state, why wouldn't you just list your current leader, Memphis? I don't see any reason how he would benefit from going to Miami, or NC State. State is completely void of talent and I couldn't see him going there over Duke. I just don't want to see a Bryce Brown saga again. Where it was Miami, but really Oregon had a slight lead, then Miami again, but then USC came in and got a visit, then Kansas St. cause it was close to home, then LSU made a push and looked to be the leader while he was still saying Miami, then ended up at Tennessee after it dragged on and on and on.

[Bluedog]

And if he did, did K offer a scholarship?

K offered him a scholarship today.

Is this confirmed? How do you know?

I've heard this as well, but afaik its still unofficial atm (i assume they'll make an announcement or however they do it tomorrow).

Internet message boards are full of "I heards," many of which are guesses. K is talking to Wall so K will offer Wall. IMO, any "strong" statement should have a link to add validity.

I am not sure where all this information like "I'm hearing" comes from,"

I will share a sentence which pretty much says it all. Wall told me, "It was great," in reference to how his visit went earlier this evening. IOW, it was a good visit.


Which is a probable yes on "he got an offer."

Duke Makes Formal Offer To John Wall (http://sports.chronicleblogs.com/2009/03/30/duke-makes-formal-offer-to-john-wall/), according to The Chronicle and scout.com.

[roywhite]

the Scout.com article on his meeting with Coach K had quotes from wall and was very positive in regards to the meeting. While this is fairly common when recruits are interviewed by the recruiting services, some of the quotes from John seemed like he really bought in to what K had to say.

There is a rivals article also, with many of the same quotes, and also the tidbit that Wall will be talking again with Coach K (via telephone) this Weds. 4/1. No foolin'. :)

[Jim3k]

Interesting. So by that rationale, the whole discussion about scholarships available shouldn't be a factor for the Duke basketball team either... I'd bet that there's probably quite a few recruits we can bring in who qualify for a "need-based" scholarship if we were so inclined to play that game...

Anyways, rant off...

It doesn't work that way except in the Ivy League where all scholarships to all students are need-based. Under NCAA rules for football and basketball, a need-based scholarship to an athlete would be considered an athletic scholarship and would reduce the number of available athletic scholarships by the number of need-based scholarships held by an athlete in football or basketball.

Other sports have different rules and a need-based scholarship holder might be able to walk on for that sport without any similar loss to others.

[AIRFORCEDUKIE]

There is a rivals article also, with many of the same quotes, and also the tidbit that Wall will be talking again with Coach K (via telephone) this Weds. 4/1. No foolin'. :)

Just a thought:

Maybe this is a post Calipari to Kentucky conversation that they set up.

Here is thier possible conversation before he left Durham,

Wall to K "I love your school and I like the thougt of being J-Will Junior and taking you to the Final Four next year"

K to Wall "Sounds like a plan sign this LOI"

Wall to K "I also like Memphis and want to see what Coach Cal is doing before I decide"

K to wall- "Ok well lets see what he does then we can talk again on Wednesday, we would love to have you at Duke next year"

Wall to K "If Coach Cal goes to UK there is no way that I am going to play for that crazy fan base, in a transitional year, I will come to Duke, we will talk wednesday."

I know far fetched but I guy can dream can't he;)

Airforcedukie

[houstondukie]

Just a thought:

Maybe this is a post Calipari to Kentucky conversation that they set up.

Here is thier possible conversation before he left Durham,

Wall to K "I love your school and I like the thougt of being J-Will Junior and taking you to the Final Four next year"

K to Wall "Sounds like a plan sign this LOI"

Wall to K "I also like Memphis and want to see what Coach Cal is doing before I decide"

K to wall- "Ok well lets see what he does then we can talk again on Wednesday, we would love to have you at Duke next year"

Wall to K "If Coach Cal goes to UK there is no way that I am going to play for that crazy fan base, in a transitional year, I will come to Duke, we will talk wednesday."

I know far fetched but I guy can dream can't he;)

Airforcedukie

Did you read the latest RIVALS.com article?

Without giving too much away, Duke is in very, very good shape with John Wall. I don't think anything will happen very soon, however.

One thing the article did touch on was how Wall was completely surprised by Coach K's down-to-earth personality. Wall always thought Coach K was a suit-and-tie, "serious" all-the-time kinda coach.

IMO, this changes everything. Wall previously had misguided perceptions of Duke (he did grow up a nc state fan). Now he is getting to know the Duke we all know and love. And I think for the first time Wall is starting to see there's a lot to like about Duke.

[AIRFORCEDUKIE]

I was just talking about the phone call that was set up for Wed. is all I read the article, and I am very optimistic. Just trying to have a little fun in my Dream world is all

[vango]

Cal leaving "helps Duke a lot."

http://bluedevilnation.net/

[soccerstud2210]

Did you read the latest RIVALS.com article?

Without giving too much away, Duke is in very, very good shape with John Wall. I don't think anything will happen very soon, however.

One thing the article did touch on was how Wall was completely surprised by Coach K's down-to-earth personality. Wall always thought Coach K was a suit-and-tie, "serious" all-the-time kinda coach.

IMO, this changes everything. Wall previously had misguided perceptions of Duke (he did grow up a nc state fan). Now he is getting to know the Duke we all know and love. And I think for the first time Wall is starting to see there's a lot to like about Duke.

Where do you get that information from?

[Crisker]

Did you read the latest RIVALS.com article?

Without giving too much away, Duke is in very, very good shape with John Wall. I don't think anything will happen very soon, however.

One thing the article did touch on was how Wall was completely surprised by Coach K's down-to-earth personality. Wall always thought Coach K was a suit-and-tie, "serious" all-the-time kinda coach.

IMO, this changes everything. Wall previously had misguided perceptions of Duke (he did grow up a nc state fan). Now he is getting to know the Duke we all know and love. And I think for the first time Wall is starting to see there's a lot to like about Duke.


I read the article, and am much more optimistic than I was before. There are some very positive things in there. If you think about it, Duke and Wall are a natural match, for several reasons. I am feeling pretty good about this.

[hedgehog]

Where do you get that information from?

houstondukiedid say "Did you read the latest RIVALS.COM article? Without giving too much away....."

So, I am guessing from RIVALS.com

[CMS2478]

One week ago I did not even consider Wall an option, and now I am glued to the message boards hoping to get a whiff of some good news. I am trying to be optimistic, but I still view Wall as being a long shot. I really hope I'm wrong though. :(

[Rudy]

One thing the article did touch on was how Wall was completely surprised by Coach K's down-to-earth personality.
I guess he never sat within earshot of the Duke bench during a timeout when K was "motivating" his players.

[soccerstud2210]

houstondukiedid say "Did you read the latest RIVALS.COM article? Without giving too much away....."

So, I am guessing from RIVALS.com

that is why i bolded the second part of his comment.

[BD80]

Katz raises an issue that had been stated here:


Kentucky had some funny math even before the flirtation with John Calipari. The Wildcats had one scholarship open but signed three players under Billy Gillispie, meaning there had to be attrition either through the NBA draft, transfers or scholarships not being renewed. Whoever is the new coach is likely going to have roster upheaval privileges. Remember, technically scholarships are renewable every season.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4029629&name=katz_andy

With a bunch of Memphis players/recruits talking about following Cal to Ky, this could get messy.

It would be interesting to hear what Cal is telling John Wall through all of this.

[watzone]

Cal leaving "helps Duke a lot."

http://bluedevilnation.net/

I have been following Wall for a good while and have seen this recruit float like a buoy in the ocean, meaning a little bit north, a little bit south.

I had my second conversation with Wall in three days last evening and I can tell you that Duke is a player. We discussed Kentucky, Calipari's move, and a lot more. I have also been talking with various sources about the situation and Duke has made up a lot of ground. But rest assured, that Duke while not the leader, is very much in this race for his services and that his contacts with Coach K have been fruitful. This will not be over until the Jordan Brand All Star game if all goes as planned. He will make a choice on national TV, be it there or with ESPNU. One more thing, as of the McDonald's Dunk contest last evening, Wall had not talked with Calipari.

[BD80]

Xavier Henry may intend to follow Cal, which would suggest his brother CJ would transfer from Memphis:


...Xavier Henry can follow John Calipari to Kentucky if he chooses.

``I put something on my letter-of-intent that says if he (Calipari) leaves, I can leave, too,” Henry told DraftExpress while down in Miami for the McDonald’s All-American Game.

Remember, Henry is the top shooting guard in the country and could be the guy with the most pro potential of anyone in the Class of 2009. He’s signed with Memphis and told Givony that he still hasn’t heard anything from Calipari yet.

``Cal texted me this morning and told me he’d call me later,” Henry said.


http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/goodmanonfox/2009/03/31/XAVIER_HENRY_HAS_OUTCLAUSE

Ummmm, how many scholarships are available? Cal may have made a deal to get a dozen or so extra from the football team :)

This could be why he is trying to get Barbee in as the new coach at Memphis, so he can leave some players and recruits behind without losing face. That way he won't have to start his tenure at Ky with a total bloodbath of cutting loose kids who have been offered scholarships - which would be used against him forever. Sounds like he is behind closed doors right now trying to manipulate the situation - and the people involved - to his best advantage. When he announces he has accepted the Ky job, I suspect many of the roster issues at both schools will have been resolved.

[roywhite]

Katz raises an issue that had been stated here:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4029629&name=katz_andy

With a bunch of Memphis players/recruits talking about following Cal to Ky, this could get messy.

It would be interesting to hear what Cal is telling John Wall through all of this.

So, if Cal gets to UK, he's got the following scholarship numbers problems:

1. He's 2 over counting current UK scholarship players and LOI's.
2. He may be looking at 4 Memphis LOI's, who may think of joining him
3. He may be looking at 2 more players who were potential Memphis recruits, Wall and Cousins.

Even if he starts whacking away KY players under scholarship or encouraging their LOI's not to come, and then prioritizes his Memphis LOI's and potential recruits, it gets awfully messy.

This would seem to work very much to our benefit in trying to recruit young Mr. Wall.

[alteran]

Interesting. So by that rationale, the whole discussion about scholarships available shouldn't be a factor for the Duke basketball team either... I'd bet that there's probably quite a few recruits we can bring in who qualify for a "need-based" scholarship if we were so inclined to play that game...

Anyways, rant off...

I don't want to make a big deal out of the Ivy's open secret that they technically don't award athletic scholarships but, in fact do through a shell game with other scholarships.

Obviously, they aren't trying to make a play for real Div I competitiveness-- and if they did, I'm sure the NCAA would start paying attention, because the Caliparis of the world would drive a Mack truck through that loophole.

The whole "no athletic scholarships" thing tends to make me roll my eyes, however.

[alteran]

It doesn't work that way except in the Ivy League where all scholarships to all students are need-based. Under NCAA rules for football and basketball, a need-based scholarship to an athlete would be considered an athletic scholarship and would reduce the number of available athletic scholarships by the number of need-based scholarships held by an athlete in football or basketball.

Other sports have different rules and a need-based scholarship holder might be able to walk on for that sport without any similar loss to others.

Interesting tidbit, thanks for the info.

Didn't Carolina walk the line with one of it's players on this issue a few years back? Someone deep in the rotation but playing real minutes had a Morehead scholly. IIRC it SHOULD have put them over the scholly count but didn't. Maybe the 5/8 rule?

It's been awhile. And I'm little bit OT.:o

[ChicagoCrazy84]

Cool article here. Really goes into depth on what they talked about and what Wall likes about Duke. Check it out

http://duke.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=930050

[Bluedog]

It doesn't work that way except in the Ivy League where all scholarships to all students are need-based. Under NCAA rules for football and basketball, a need-based scholarship to an athlete would be considered an athletic scholarship and would reduce the number of available athletic scholarships by the number of need-based scholarships held by an athlete in football or basketball.

Other sports have different rules and a need-based scholarship holder might be able to walk on for that sport without any similar loss to others.

Wait, so if Steve Johnson qualified for financial aid (no matter the amount) his freshman year, he would be effectively ineligible to try-out as a walk on (since you don't want to use a scholarship for a walk on)? That seems to make little to no sense. Or is it only if he's receiving a certain amount? There's probably a lengthy written out procedure somewhere that I assume that isn't easy to generalize.

But it would seem INCREDIBLY unfair to make walk ons give up their financial aid. Maybe it's only for "recruited" athletes where a need-based scholarship counts toward the limit for football and basketball. BTW, Duke is free for those families making less than $60,000/yr (although with a few thousand in loans), and completely free for those less than $40,000. Harvard is free if parents make less than $80,000. If parents make between $120 k and $180 k, they have to pay 10% towards tuition a year (i.e. if makes 150k, cost at harvard is 15k/year). So, I'd bet that many basketball players at Harvard get full rides or very close to them just based on need.

[pfrduke]

Interesting tidbit, thanks for the info.

Didn't Carolina walk the line with one of it's players on this issue a few years back? Someone deep in the rotation but playing real minutes had a Morehead scholly. IIRC it SHOULD have put them over the scholly count but didn't. Maybe the 5/8 rule?

It's been awhile. And I'm little bit OT.:o

Will Johnson, I think.

[The Gordog]

I'm not sure what you're talking about... Duke has had zero one-and-dones since the rule about going straight to the NBA from HS. Memphis will have had 6 by the end of next season if Wall ends up there. Memphis gets a lot of one-and-done talent. That's all I was saying.

Deng, Luol.

[Bluedog]

I'm not sure what you're talking about... Duke has had zero one-and-dones since the rule about going straight to the NBA from HS. Memphis will have had 6 by the end of next season if Wall ends up there. Memphis gets a lot of one-and-done talent. That's all I was saying.


Deng, Luol.

Haven't read your whole discussion, but Luol matriculated before the rule was instituted. Luol could have gone straight to the NBA from high school (he was #2 in the country) as the #1 HS player in his class, Lebron, did.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Calipari's deal is done, he's off to UK. So now we can watch what Wall does without the "if" of Cal going or not. It will be interesting to see what he does. I don't care if comes or not, I'm not a fan of us recruiting him for one year. My interest will be mostly in what he decides to do, and what Calipari does with all of his recruits now that the UK deal is official.

[ndkjr70]

The rule was not yet in place then. If you recall, LeBron James would also have had to go to college if the rule had been in place.

The mere thought of LeBron James in college sends shivers down my backbone...

[ChicagoCrazy84]

Calipari's deal is done, he's off to UK. So now we can watch what Wall does without the "if" of Cal going or not. It will be interesting to see what he does. I don't care if comes or not, I'm not a fan of us recruiting him for one year. My interest will be mostly in what he decides to do, and what Calipari does with all of his recruits now that the UK deal is official.


The situation and timing is perfect for him to be at Duke the way our roster is set up. It wouldn't make sense for him to be here MORE than one year! With our 2010 recruiting class consisting of a PG, SG, plus a PG/SG transfer who will be eligible, another PG would create a logjam which would not go over well with Tyler Thornton and co. That is why I am more of a proponent for John Wall over Eric Bledsoe/Darius Smith because he would be a one and done. Whatever the case, I don't believe you are not a fan of recruiting this guy. He is a special talent that would do wonders for the team.

[CLT Devil]

According to the Scout article linked above Wall and K are going to speak over the phone this Wednesday...more good news. I hope he gets some siginificant playing time for/against Kelly and Plumlee, and he already had some good things to say about Kelly.

Some good news on what was otherwise a gloomy weekend/week.

[SupaDave]

The mere thought of LeBron James in college sends shivers down my backbone...

Right - some kids are just too advanced. I have to remind myself constantly that Lebron hasn't even hit 25...

[gumbomoop]

One thing the article did touch on was how Wall was completely surprised by Coach K's down-to-earth personality. Wall always thought Coach K was a suit-and-tie, "serious" all-the-time kinda coach.

I'm particularly intrigued by this, for I'm always pleased when K shows, and folks notice, his humaneness, hilarious sense of humor, etc. The olympic pros noticed, but for reasons mostly connected with Duke-hatred, K sometimes shows a prickly side that hides his really warm qualities.

The Guitar Hero add is only the latest in K's witty personality. One of the reasons K liked Dunleavy, he liked to say, was that "Dunleavy gets my jokes."

[ChicagoCrazy84]

I would love to meet Coach K and have a talk with him or something of that nature. Even better, playing 18 holes of golf with Coach K, Tiger Woods, and my Dad would be HEAVEN! I always try to figure out my dream foursome, but the more I think about it, that would be a good one. I could see Coach K and Tiger getting along.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Whatever the case, I don't believe you are not a fan of recruiting this guy.
I'm not a fan. I'd much rather get a player who has intentions on coming in and helping Duke be the best program it can be, which to me means a longer commitment. If he comes, that fine and I'll cheer him on just as I do every other player on the floor. But I won't be depressed if he goes elsewhere.

[ChicagoCrazy84]

Hey, where did everyone hear that the deal is done and he is off to UK? It wasn't reported on ESPN.com. It still says he was sleeping on it as of Monday night.

[COYS]

Calipari's deal is done, he's off to UK. So now we can watch what Wall does without the "if" of Cal going or not. It will be interesting to see what he does. I don't care if comes or not, I'm not a fan of us recruiting him for one year. My interest will be mostly in what he decides to do, and what Calipari does with all of his recruits now that the UK deal is official.


The situation and timing is perfect for him to be at Duke the way our roster is set up. It wouldn't make sense for him to be here MORE than one year! With our 2010 recruiting class consisting of a PG, SG, plus a PG/SG transfer who will be eligible, another PG would create a logjam which would not go over well with Tyler Thornton and co. That is why I am more of a proponent for John Wall over Eric Bledsoe/Darius Smith because he would be a one and done. Whatever the case, I don't believe you are not a fan of recruiting this guy. He is a special talent that would do wonders for the team.

Agreed. I don't know why people wouldn't want Wall for next year, especially since K sees him as a good fit. If Henderson leaves, we wouldn't have to worry about Wall cutting into playing time for any of the guards (a four guard rotation of Wall, Scheyer, Smith, and Williams would mean plenty of playing time to go around). If Henderson stays, we suddenly have a similar team as this past year with more depth in the post and more talent at the PG slot, which will allow the talents of our converted PG's (nolan and Jon) to be utilized even more (playing off the ball). There's plenty of PT for five guards, as well, especially since a small lineup featuring Wall, Jon, G, Ewill/Nolan, and Kyle could be devastatingly effective. Then the next year we've got Thornton and Curry coming in, who can both play the point to take over when Wall goes to the NBA. I couldn't imagine a better situation for Duke to get a one and done point guard.

That being said, I think that Bledsoe can help the team, as well, in the event that Wall chooses to go elsewhere. The difference between Wall and Bledsoe is the degree to which they can contribute on next year's team. If G leaves, we NEED a fourth guard for next year and that player will get lots of PT. However, Wall has the ability and talent to take over games the day he sets foot on campus. Bledsoe would also play next year, but he is most likely a multi-year player who wouldn't have the same impact next year. I would be happy to have him, but I just can't see why someone wouldn't also be extremely excited over the prospect of earning Wall's services.

[Indoor66]

I would love to meet Coach K and have a talk with him or something of that nature. Even better, playing 18 holes of golf with Coach K, Tiger Woods, and my Dad would be HEAVEN! I always try to figure out my dream foursome, but the more I think about it, that would be a good one. I could see Coach K and Tiger getting along.

K has always been a tennis man. He used to play with Cremins at ACC functions. Don't know about now with the hip replacements and all.

[Chitowndevil]

I'm not a fan. I'd much rather get a player who has intentions on coming in and helping Duke be the best program it can be, which to me means a longer commitment. If he comes, that fine and I'll cheer him on just as I do every other player on the floor. But I won't be depressed if he goes elsewhere.

Just personal opinion but I try to stay away from this kind of reasoning. Just because a kid has had people whispering in his ear for years that he's the next big thing and should get to the NBA as soon as possible doesn't mean he's a bad kid or that he won't be committed to Duke for the time he's here. Whether or not Duke should actively recruit one-and-doners is certainly a matter for debate. I just try to have that debate without judging kids. None of us have walked a mile in their shoes.

[TheBrianZoubekExperience]

K still plays racquetball as of 2005. I spotted him playing against someone in Wilson that Fall. He looked like he was losing pretty badly but I didn't stick around to watch the whole thing.

[roywhite]

There's currently an article in the N&O that talks about Duke's recruitment of John Wall and depicts it as a "desperate" move by Coach K.

I won't link it, because:

1. I don't want to give them the clicks
2. I'm concerned about your blood pressure, as well as my own

The Devils Den has a discussion about it in their free section.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Just personal opinion but I try to stay away from this kind of reasoning. Just because a kid has had people whispering in his ear for years that he's the next big thing and should get to the NBA as soon as possible doesn't mean he's a bad kid or that he won't be committed to Duke for the time he's here. Whether or not Duke should actively recruit one-and-doners is certainly a matter for debate. I just try to have that debate without judging kids. None of us have walked a mile in their shoes.
I never judged him.

[Duvall]

There's currently an article in the N&O that talks about Duke's recruitment of John Wall and depicts it as a "desperate" move by Coach K.

I won't link it, because:

1. I don't want to give them the clicks
2. I'm concerned about your blood pressure, as well as my own

The Devils Den has a discussion about it in their free section.

Ah, journamalism. Let's assert, without evidence, that Krzyzewski and Duke "swore off" recruiting one-and-done players, ignore the fact that Duke continued to recruit players that were expected to and did leave after one year, and then assert, again without evidence, that Krzyzewski and Duke are now reneging on the promise that exists only in the mind of the reporter, such as it is.

God, sportswriters suck.

[ChicagoCrazy84]

Ah, journamalism. Let's assert, without evidence, that Krzyzewski and Duke "swore off" recruiting one-and-done players, ignore the fact that Duke continued to recruit players that were expected to and did leave after one year, and then assert, again without evidence, that Krzyzewski and Duke are now reneging on the promise that exists only in the mind of the reporter, such as it is.

God, sportswriters suck.

I agree, I don't think Coach K and the staff ever really said they won't recruit one and done players. Besides, when they say "desperate," how is that any different than just trying to fill a hole in your roster? They realized they needed to do something and they are trying to do it. How can you construe that as "desperate" rather than...for lack of a better word, smart? If that is the case, you can perceive all 5 star recruits getting baraged with letters and phone calls from coaches as desperate.

[soccerstud2210]

I just read the N&O article. it makes no sense. why would duke not go after the number 1 prospect in the nation that would fill a gap in our system? when has K ever been satisfied with second place and not being on top? journalism... sheesh.

[Devilsfan]

Hasn't that rag gone out of business yet? I guess not because someone here read it. Let's see, 30 wins, an ACC championship, two McD All-Americans coming in, Singler staying. I wish I was that deperate!

[Atlanta Duke]

There's currently an article in the N&O that talks about Duke's recruitment of John Wall and depicts it as a "desperate" move by Coach K.

I won't link it, because:

1. I don't want to give them the clicks
2. I'm concerned about your blood pressure, as well as my own

The Devils Den has a discussion about it in their free section.

I had read variations on most of the contentions in the N&O blog post regarding failed recruiting strategies and the 15-501 hegemony of UNC until Giglio wrapped it up by comparing the records of Duke and Ohio State while asking which program you would rather be - that particular spin was novel and his trolling was unmasked at that point

Consider the source

[watzone]

I had read variations on most of the contentions in the N&O blog post regarding failed recruiting strategies and the 15-501 hegemony of UNC until Giglio wrapped it up by comparing the records of Duke and Ohio State while asking which program you would rather be - that particular spin was novel and his trolling was unmasked at that point

Consider the source


The N & O did a piece not long ago saying that Wall should choose NCSU. Maybe it was the same author. There is so much bull out there that I refuse to waste my time reading the opi's of Duke haters. Trust me, the N & O sorta wanted Wall in red for the hometown effect. You should hear some other schools recruiting sites when talking to Wall and his coaches. Chummy is an understatement with some of them. There will be more than a few spins on this for the soap opera effect from local radio and media. Shock journalism is alive and well in 2009.

[wilko]

It disturbs me to think I might be the voice of reason.

This thread has dominated in recent days and with Good reason. Wall is a top flight on the court performer as a PG. We need what he brings.

But all the speculation about hes this or that... or radio guys saying no way he ends up at Duke... its just madness.

If we get too wound up and he doesnt come...
then its Duke cant do this or that, of K is this or that....

Sit back relax and let it go. I know I cant control it. I bet neither can you.
Whats going to be will be... And all this hand wringing isnt doing anyone any real good.

[BlueintheFace]

Here is a question to ponder for the rest of you who have also seen Wall play:

After every hustle play, highlight basket, and momentum stopping timeout this year, we saw every one of our boys hugging, high-fiving, rushing to help each other up, and generally acting like true brothers. Can you see Wall doing this too? Do you see Wall listening to our senior leaders?

Is it a legitimate concern that John Wall could destroy some pretty incredible chemistry (one of our great strengths this past season) if he comes to Duke?

[nyr484]

Is it a legitimate concern that John Wall could destroy some pretty incredible chemistry (one of our great strengths this past season) if he comes to Duke?

Unless this kid is the biggest jerk on earth, it would be pretty much impossible for a freshman to come in to a locker room with good chemistry and ruin that chemistry. From what I've read, Wall is far from an jerk. So, to answer your question: No, it is not a legitimate concern.

If Wall chooses Duke, I will be unequivocally thrilled. There is zero downside to him choosing Duke. Even if he is a 1 year player, he will instantly transform our team into a national championship contender. He is a great player and seems like a great kid.

[hedgehog]

Is it a legitimate concern that John Wall could destroy some pretty incredible chemistry (one of our great strengths this past season) if he comes to Duke?

Only if it is also a concern that Ryan Kelly, Mason Plumlee, or Seth Curry could do the same thing, since we have never seen any of them in a Duke uniform.

Otherwise, I don't see why it would be more of an issue with John Wall. Didn't he and Kelly play on the same AAU team?

No reason to worry about someone who is not committed. If we must obsess over it, I prefer the obsession over how great it is that have a chance to get such a great recruit at such a late date.

Seriously, look at how John Wall said he had some misconceptions about Duke cleared up by meeting with Coach K. Let's not make the mistake of having misconceptions about John Wall. The best way to avoid that is to avoid preconceptions

[CameronBornAndBred]

Is it a legitimate concern that John Wall could destroy some pretty incredible chemistry (one of our great strengths this past season) if he comes to Duke?
To those who questioned my dislike of the idea of recruiting the one and dones, maybe this question best answers why. I doubt he will "destroy" the chemistry, but I would question how much the rest of the team will truly take him under their wing, especially the leaders, knowing that he won't be part of the family the following season. Great post Blue.

[nyr484]

To those who questioned my dislike of the idea of recruiting the one and dones, maybe this question best answers why. I doubt he will "destroy" the chemistry, but I would question how much the rest of the team will truly take him under their wing, especially the leaders, knowing that he won't be part of the family the following season. Great post Blue.

You've gotta be kidding me... If you want Duke to compete for a national championship, you need top talent. And top talent is likely to be "one-and-done". Luol Deng was a 1-year player and we went to the Final Four and had a great chance to win the whole thing. Do you think it's a coincidence that in the years since 2004, Duke.... 1) has not been past the sweet 16; and 2) has not had players on the roster talented enough to go straight to the NBA.

Look, I love this Duke team and I love guys that stay 4 years and develop into great college players. You need those guys on your team to win a NC. But you also need NBA talent, even if it is for just 1 year.

And team chemistry is important. But to say that a one-and-done player would be automatically harmful to team chemistry is just to admit your ignorance of what goes on in sports locker rooms.

[BlueintheFace]

Only if it is also a concern that Ryan Kelly, Mason Plumlee, or Seth Curry could do the same thing, since we have never seen any of them in a Duke uniform.

Otherwise, I don't see why it would be more of an issue with John Wall. Didn't he and Kelly play on the same AAU team?

No reason to worry about someone who is not committed. If we must obsess over it, I prefer the obsession over how great it is that have a chance to get such a great recruit at such a late date.

Seriously, look at how John Wall said he had some misconceptions about Duke cleared up by meeting with Coach K. Let's not make the mistake of having misconceptions about John Wall. The best way to avoid that is to avoid preconceptions
I don't see it as the same at all. Not even close really.

I'm just saying. When was the last time we had a freshman jump on a well established senior laden team and be told, we are changing our offense for you? Especially a PG? VERY especially a PG who will most likely not have nearly as much loyalty to the team and the program as the rest of the players since he would be the only one intending to come for just one year.

To discount this very unique dynamic seems foolishly overoptimistic at best and Tarheelish at worst. I'm not saying that chemistry WILL be a problem, just that circumstances seem to indicate that it could be a very real concern if he comes.

[gvtucker]

Wait, so if Steve Johnson qualified for financial aid (no matter the amount) his freshman year, he would be effectively ineligible to try-out as a walk on (since you don't want to use a scholarship for a walk on)? That seems to make little to no sense. Or is it only if he's receiving a certain amount? There's probably a lengthy written out procedure somewhere that I assume that isn't easy to generalize.

But it would seem INCREDIBLY unfair to make walk ons give up their financial aid. Maybe it's only for "recruited" athletes where a need-based scholarship counts toward the limit for football and basketball. BTW, Duke is free for those families making less than $60,000/yr (although with a few thousand in loans), and completely free for those less than $40,000. Harvard is free if parents make less than $80,000. If parents make between $120 k and $180 k, they have to pay 10% towards tuition a year (i.e. if makes 150k, cost at harvard is 15k/year). So, I'd bet that many basketball players at Harvard get full rides or very close to them just based on need.

No, it isn't like that. Essentially, if you are a recruited basketball player (which is defined by the NCAA, but most simply, if you're a basketball player in high school and you're being pursued by D-1 schools, you're a recruited basketball player), then you are subject to the referenced rule.

In Steve Johnson's case, he is a recruited track athlete, not a recruited basketball player. Track rules are different than basketball rules, and if he qualifies for financial aid in the same manner of any other student, he could receive financial aid and still play both basketball and run track (or, more literally, jump track). I have no idea whether or not that is the case, of course.

[KyDevilinIL]

Is it a legitimate concern that John Wall could destroy some pretty incredible chemistry (one of our great strengths this past season) if he comes to Duke?

I don't think that's any more of a concern that it would be with any newcomer. While K's been pretty good at mixing guys together over the course of his career, ultimately any new class is a crap shoot. You never know how it's going to work until it's time to go to work.

That said, Wall's got a pretty serious decision to make. For whatever reason, the national media seems convinced he's going to UK with Calipari. I'm pretty sure they have zero facts upon which to base such claims, but I suppose it's worth noting.

Should Wall go to Lexington, he's going to be at the center of an absolute circus – with Cal coming in, toting heaven knows how many Memphis recruits, and joining Meeks and Patterson, this place is going to be 100 percent on fire by November. Add Wall to the mix, and these people are expecting a national championship.

It seems we are saying the same thing – with Wall and Gerald, along with a (hopefully) productive but young frontline, we could be among the title contenders. Honestly, the kind probably can't lose either way. He's going to get all the attention he wants at either school.

Here's hoping K knocked Wall's socks off over the weekend, and that Wall opts for the stability of the Duke program over the swirling vortex of expectation and transition at UK.

Kentucky fans are pumped now, but geez, every single twitch and twitter of Cal's first season is going to be scrutinized and analyzed to the point of nonsense. Those folks are bloodthirsty and they want results immediately. If they don't get them, it's going to get ugly.

I hope Wall will be attracted by our experienced squad and a largely calmer playing environment, which could ultimately produce equally exciting results by the end of next season.

[gvtucker]

I don't see it as the same at all. Not even close really.

I'm just saying. When was the last time we had a freshman jump on a well established senior laden team and be told, we are changing our offense for you? Especially a PG? VERY especially a PG who will most likely not have nearly as much loyalty to the team and the program as the rest of the players since he would be the only one intending to come for just one year.

To discount this very unique dynamic seems foolishly overoptimistic at best and Tarheelish at worst. I'm not saying that chemistry WILL be a problem, just that circumstances seem to indicate that it could be a very real concern if he comes.

We did that for Bobby Hurley his freshman year.

Alaa Abdelnaby and Phil Henderson didn't seem to mind.

[chrisheery]

Here is a question to ponder for the rest of you who have also seen Wall play:

After every hustle play, highlight basket, and momentum stopping timeout this year, we saw every one of our boys hugging, high-fiving, rushing to help each other up, and generally acting like true brothers. Can you see Wall doing this too? Do you see Wall listening to our senior leaders?

Is it a legitimate concern that John Wall could destroy some pretty incredible chemistry (one of our great strengths this past season) if he comes to Duke?

Do you mean, like, say . . . Josh McRoberts did?

[BlueintheFace]

We did that for Bobby Hurley his freshman year.

Alaa Abdelnaby and Phil Henderson didn't seem to mind.

I disagree with that assessment strongly. There was a huge difference between those two seasons and that was NPOY Danny Ferry (~22 ppg if memory serves) leaving and Christian Laettner essentially doubling his minutes. That is where the offense really changed.

If the only players we lose are Greg, Dave, and Marty.... that is a very very different situation.

[MulletMan]

And there it is (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4031573).

Now... let's temper expectations, and see how it plays out.

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

I don't see it as the same at all. Not even close really.

I'm just saying. When was the last time we had a freshman jump on a well established senior laden team and be told, we are changing our offense for you? Especially a PG?

2001.


VERY especially a PG who will most likely not have nearly as much loyalty to the team and the program as the rest of the players since he would be the only one intending to come for just one year.

To discount this very unique dynamic seems foolishly overoptimistic at best and Tarheelish at worst. I'm not saying that chemistry WILL be a problem, just that circumstances seem to indicate that it could be a very real concern if he comes.

Chemistry is always an issue when you are adding new personalities. But I see no reason that John is any more of a threat than Luol, Corey, or any of the potential one and done guys we've recruited (Hump, Liv, BKnight, PPat, Monroe, Boynton, et al). Ryan Kelly seems to enjoy playing with Wall right now and I'm sure he'd have told K is there was any reason that Wall wouldn't be a great teammate.

I really don't get the anti-Wall sentiment from some folks. He's an amazing player that K thinks will mesh well with our existing line-up. He fills an enormous hole and would do wonders for our reputation in a lot of circles. If he comes to Duke he'll be consciously choosing a program built on discipline and teamwork over teams that would let him coast. What do you want from the kid?

[hedgehog]

To discount this very unique dynamic seems foolishly overoptimistic at best and Tarheelish at worst.

Wow, that just shows what the anonymity of the internet will do. I wouldn't use the term Tarhellish to refer to my worst enemy (actual Tarheels excluded). ;)

Seriously, I would guess that everyone on the team is on board with getting a point guard, since I think everyone on the team must recognize the need for another ballhandler. Even if Nolan Smith develops into a great point guard, I think the team would do well to have another point guard. Also, we know that Scheyer is not a true point guard, despite handling the responsibility. Certainly having to guard Wall every day in practice could only help Nolan, EWill, and Scheyer come game time. (Not to mention having to guard those guys would help John Wall).

I imagine that John Wall has met some of the Duke players if he is considering playing at Duke. I would also imagine that Ryan Kelly would have mentioned if he does not enjoying playing with Wall.

If we are really considering not taking players just because they have a game mature enough to take to the league after one year, we are probably in trouble if we have a National Championship as a goal every year.

Elton was made a focus of the offense, even though we knew he might not be here long. The same thing happenned with Luol Deng and McRoberts his sophomore year (even though McRoberts didn't quite live up to the task.). Certainly the team played well Elton's sophomore year, J-Will and Boozer's junior years, and this year with Gerald, all knowing that those players might leave at the end of the year. Every year seniors and freshmen come together as a team, despite knowing they only have a year together. The season really is a long time and quite a journey. Look at how magical a single season is that leads to a National Championship. I think that Wall and the rest of the team could all buy into that. Wall could certainly also be a good bring to our Curry and our next likely guard heavy class.

For a non-Duke example, Syracuse did quite well knowing the Carmelo would leave.

If we don't get Wall, we will be fine. However, with Wall, I think we will be better.

[BlueintheFace]

2001.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Duke did not change it's offense for Chris Duhon in his freshman year


Chemistry is always an issue when you are adding new personalities. But I see no reason that John is any more of a threat than Luol, Corey, or any of the potential one and done guys we've recruited (Hump, Liv, BKnight, PPat, Monroe, Boynton, et al). Ryan Kelly seems to enjoy playing with Wall right now and I'm sure he'd have told K is there was any reason that Wall wouldn't be a great teammate.

I really don't get the anti-Wall sentiment from some folks. He's an amazing player that K thinks will mesh well with our existing line-up. He fills an enormous hole and would do wonders for our reputation in a lot of circles. If he comes to Duke he'll be consciously choosing a program built on discipline and teamwork over teams that would let him coast. What do you want from the kid?

My recent post has nothing at all to do with Wall's personality. I simply pointed out that this seems to be a wholly unique situation, and that, if we were to get him and somebody asked me what my #1 concern is for next season, I would say chemistry.

1) Senior/Junior laden team with great chemistry
2) Freshman PG told that team will change offensive identity for him
3) Freshman PG does not expect to stay in program and with teammates for more than one basketball season.

... look at those three points. You could put any name or background to the Freshman in that scenario and it would give me pause. I'm not saying Chemistry WILL be an issue, but looking at the facts, it COULD be.

[hedgehog]

Do you mean, like, say . . . Josh McRoberts did?

Or maybe like Greg Newton did? I don't know that either did destroy chemistry, I wasn't there in the locker room either time. It seems like a serious charge to lodge.

However, what destroys chemistry is attitude, not how long a player is with the team. If Wall has had issues in the past, it does not mean he will in the future.

I am encouraged that he has not been looking to only go to a school where he would be the go-to guy, like OJ Mayo did with USC or Beasley did with K-State (ok, they had a rehabbing Bill Walker). Memphis has been putting together a very talented class. If Memphis really was the leader before the Calipari departure, his leader was a top team that would have a great group of players. It would not just an outlet for exposure; it would be a team that would be gunning for a National Championship.

Hopefully Duke will now become that team with whom Wall casts his lot.

[mgtr]

Chemistry certainly could be an issue, but I am willing to fall back on the idea that K knows what he is doing. If he is satisfied, I am too.

[freshmanjs]

2001.


i'd hardly say we handed the offense to chris duhon in 2001.

[BD80]

To those who questioned my dislike of the idea of recruiting the one and dones, maybe this question best answers why. I doubt he will "destroy" the chemistry, but I would question how much the rest of the team will truly take him under their wing, especially the leaders, knowing that he won't be part of the family the following season. Great post Blue.

So you are questioning Coach K's leadership abilities?

Or are you questioning the leadership abilities of Smith, Scheyer, Zoubek, Singler, Thomas, et al? Even without Henderson, we will have 3 seniors and 2 juniors, which is a good group of upper class leadership.

You may also be underestimating the effect of a quick point guard that can distribute the ball, who would tend to create team chemistry and make friends easily :D

I, for one, don't question your dislike of "one and dones;" I question the practice at other schools where there is little or no pretense of the player attending class. I may be questioning your faith in Coach K.

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Duke did not change it's offense for Chris Duhon in his freshman year

Obviously Boozer's injury was the catalyst, but K changed our entire game at the end of the year and into the tournaments. Maybe he was building the thing around Casey, but I suspect the plan was to use Duhon's quickness and creativity to transform the team.


My recent post has nothing at all to do with Wall's personality. I simply pointed out that this seems to be a wholly unique situation, and that, if we were to get him and somebody asked me what my #1 concern is for next season, I would say chemistry.

1) Senior/Junior laden team with great chemistry
2) Freshman PG told that team will change offensive identity for him
3) Freshman PG does not expect to stay in program and with teammates for more than one basketball season.

... look at those three points. You could put any name or background to the Freshman in that scenario and it would give me pause. I'm not saying Chemistry WILL be an issue, but looking at the facts, it COULD be.

It COULD be, but you can say that every season. Why wasn't moving Greg to the bench for Elliot an issue? Why wasn't moving Jon to the bench for Kyle an issue? Because K is a great motivator and we tend to have kids that put winning ahead of themselves. Wall would give us something that we don't have otherwise and if he earns it in practice like anyone else (and he will be required to do that) I don't think any of our guys would begrudge him his spot. Again, we do this every time we add freshmen, including guys with an eye on the NBA (i.e. every recruited player we have). If you're concerned that's fine, but there's nothing about John that makes him any more of a danger to our chemistry than every other top 10 recruit we've ever brought in.

[Rudy]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Duke did not change it's offense for Chris Duhon in his freshman year



My recent post has nothing at all to do with Wall's personality. I simply pointed out that this seems to be a wholly unique situation, and that, if we were to get him and somebody asked me what my #1 concern is for next season, I would say chemistry.

1) Senior/Junior laden team with great chemistry
2) Freshman PG told that team will change offensive identity for him
3) Freshman PG does not expect to stay in program and with teammates for more than one basketball season.

... look at those three points. You could put any name or background to the Freshman in that scenario and it would give me pause. I'm not saying Chemistry WILL be an issue, but looking at the facts, it COULD be.

My read of Coach K is that the bolded #2 would never happen. In a puffery moment he could tell the kid that an outstanding season by him could put the team in Nat'l Champion position but that he will have to compete for the job, prove himself, and he could enable the TEAM to do better than it has in a half dozen years. Not many other coaches could credibly say that with their returning teams.

Suppose Ty Lawson was a freshman this season. Do you think Green or Ellington or Hansbrough would sour on having some hot-shot, upstart freshman running point? Hell, no. They would know that having a playmaking, scoring threat at point which they lacked would enhance their own games and the the chances of greater success for the team. Jon, G, and Kyle would be delighted to have better scoring opportunities.

[Stray Gator]

I don't see it as the same at all. Not even close really.

I'm just saying. When was the last time we had a freshman jump on a well established senior laden team and be told, we are changing our offense for you? Especially a PG? VERY especially a PG who will most likely not have nearly as much loyalty to the team and the program as the rest of the players since he would be the only one intending to come for just one year.

To discount this very unique dynamic seems foolishly overoptimistic at best and Tarheelish at worst. I'm not saying that chemistry WILL be a problem, just that circumstances seem to indicate that it could be a very real concern if he comes.

Call me "foolishly overoptimistic" if you must, but I would assume that Coach K, before deciding to extend an offer, probably talked with a couple of our other recruits who have experienced playing with John Wall to get a sense of whether he tends to be a positive contributor or disruptive to team chemistry, and probably sounded out our current players about whether the prospect of playing with John Wall for one year would pose a problem for them, and probably had some fairly candid conversation with John Wall himself about priorities and the sacrifices required by the "fist" philosophy that K has established in the program.

Because K gets paid handsome sums to write books and conduct seminars about leadership and team-building, and because K clearly understands that his own reputation and legacy are directly tied to the integrity of the Duke basketball program as well its success, I would not assume that he hasn't done the due diligence warranted by the circumstances. While some things defy prediction, if we assume that K did those things, and if we assume that everyone was honest with him--I suspect K could tell if they were not--then there's no more that can be done with respect to John Wall than is done with respect to any other incoming recruit to assure a "happy marriage." It seems to me that your concerns reflect a lot of negative assumptions about John Wall, about Coach K, and about our current players that, IMO, simply are not justified.

[CMS2478]

So with all this talk of Duhon, we have strayed off the topic of Wall. First I hear people saying Duke is sitting very good with Wall and now I'm hearing he will most likely follow Calapari to UK......anybody heard anything or is Wall keeping it hush hush right now???

[BlueintheFace]

My read of Coach K is that the bolded #2 would never happen.

It would. He essentially did.

http://duke.scout.com/a.z?s=167&p=2&c=851852&ssf=1&RequestedURL=http%3a%2f%2fduke.scout.com%2f2%2f851 852.html

[BlueintheFace]

Call me "foolishly overoptimistic" if you must, but I would assume that Coach K, before deciding to extend an offer, probably talked with a couple of our other recruits who have experienced playing with John Wall to get a sense of whether he tends to be a positive contributor or disruptive to team chemistry, and probably sounded out our current players about whether the prospect of playing with John Wall for one year would pose a problem for them, and probably had some fairly candid conversation with John Wall himself about priorities and the sacrifices required by the "fist" philosophy that K has established in the program.

Because K gets paid handsome sums to write books and conduct seminars about leadership and team-building, and because K clearly understands that his own reputation and legacy are directly tied to the integrity of the Duke basketball program as well its success, I would not assume that he hasn't done the due diligence warranted by the circumstances. While some things defy prediction, if we assume that K did those things, and if we assume that everyone was honest with him--I suspect K could tell if they were not--then there's no more that can be done with respect to John Wall than is done with respect to any other incoming recruit to assure a "happy marriage." It seems to me that your concerns reflect a lot of negative assumptions about John Wall, about Coach K, and about our current players that, IMO, simply are not justified.

You really do NEVER KNOW until the high-tops hit the court. All I'm saying is that the chances of it happening are significantly decreased if he comes.

[geraldsneighbor]

It would. He essentially did.

http://duke.scout.com/a.z?s=167&p=2&c=851852&ssf=1&RequestedURL=http%3a%2f%2fduke.scout.com%2f2%2f851 852.html

Blue, I love your posts but could you explain how the team would have to change its identity? Having a true PG can only help, no?

[CameronBornAndBred]

So you are questioning Coach K's leadership abilities?

Or are you questioning the leadership abilities of Smith, Scheyer, Zoubek, Singler, Thomas, et al?

I may be questioning your faith in Coach K.

1. No, I never once questioned that, what I did question was pretty straight forward.
2. Once again, you are putting words in my mouth I never wrote.
3. That's fine, at least that one is your own question. My faith in K is quite alright, to answer it.

[BD80]

Some of the stories are characterizing Wall as a part of the Calipari to Ky deal.

Wonder if the new scrutiny will be greater than John is used to as one of the nation's top recruits?

[Kewlswim]

Hi,

I find it curious Coach K is having so much trouble getting a kid from essentially his backyard, Raleigh, to commit to the program. I wonder if there is something else involved that we are not privy to? For example, maybe John is concerned that the academics will be really, really hard and make it difficult for him to reach his potential (read as top draft status) in his year (if it is just one year) at Duke? I know other teams use that card against us, telling recruits they will be spending every waking hour either studying or playing basketball--with no time for socializing, etc. Maybe John really does not want to play, for whatever reason, for a team that will probably not have that many NBA caliber players on its roster as Memphis/Kentucky? Lastly, maybe John is scared that Coach K is an evil tyrant? I believe some kids think Coach K has no sense of humor and spews venom (swears/yells at the kids) at every opportunity? Anyway, something seems off to me. I know that not every kid wants to play for Duke, so maybe I am over thinking this.

I sort of wish Kobe or other dream team players would reach out to John telling him how awesome it is to play for Coach K. That might be a recruiting violation and furthermore some might have already done so.

GO DUKE!

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

It would. It essentially did.

http://duke.scout.com/a.z?s=167&p=2&c=851852&ssf=1&RequestedURL=http%3a%2f%2fduke.scout.com%2f2%2f851 852.html

I think there may be some confusion surrounding what K meant in the statement you are referring to (and, FYI, I think that's a Premium article, so many folks may not be able to read it).

Every season K builds the specifics of the O and D around our personnel. When we had J.J. we incorporated lots of screen to get him shots. When we had JWill and Boozer we featured a lot of screen and rolls so those guys could get good shots. If we have an amazing, uptempo PG like Wall, K will run a motion that takes advantage of what he (and G, if he's here, and Jon, etc.) can do.

Duke has recently built a reputation as team that isn't as attuned to fast-paced, attacking O because we haven't had the tools. K mentioned this in his post-'Nova press conference. We've obviously had teams in the past that did that very well, but Wall is too young to remember them. (God, I feel old).

In the big picture Duke has generally run some version of the motion O and pressure man-to-man D, tailored to what we do best. That won't change whether Wall comes, G stays, or whatever. K's statement was a response to the negative recruiting that unfairly labeled Duke as a team that couldn't do certain things. K won't flip everything upside down or "build an offense around Wall" in the sense of having 4 guys clear out so Wall can take his man one-on-one every possession. He'll build his O around the talent he has, just like he does every season. If we have a dominant, speed merchant that can drive and set up others, he'll definitely incorporate that weapon into the O.

[NashvilleDevil]

Hi,

I find it curious Coach K is having so much trouble getting a kid from essentially his backyard, Raleigh, to commit to the program.

I might be taking this quote wrong but when has Duke ever really landed kids from NC? I know Dave Henderson was from NC and so was Shav. In the years that I have followed Duke I always figured a North Carolina kid would want to go to Carolina or State. I don't think that is the issue with Wall but it is not like Duke is the most liked school in the state.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Hi,

I find it curious Coach K is having so much trouble getting a kid from essentially his backyard, Raleigh, to commit to the program. I wonder if there is something else involved that we are not privy to? For example, maybe John is concerned that the academics will be really, really hard and make it difficult for him to reach his potential (read as top draft status) in his year (if it is just one year) at Duke?
I've never heard him speak, but I've read his quotes and have been really impressed by some of the words that comes out of his mouth. He seems to take care and thought in what he says, so just on the face I would assume he also does the same in school. You don't become well spoken by not being well studied. Plus Duke provides very well to ensure their athletes are able to balance their academics with their sports duties. K would not be looking at him if he weren't confident he could make it. I'm sure this is true also for a stated one and done. (Which I still don't like)

[FerryFor50]

The N & O did a piece not long ago saying that Wall should choose NCSU. Maybe it was the same author. There is so much bull out there that I refuse to waste my time reading the opi's of Duke haters. Trust me, the N & O sorta wanted Wall in red for the hometown effect. You should hear some other schools recruiting sites when talking to Wall and his coaches. Chummy is an understatement with some of them. There will be more than a few spins on this for the soap opera effect from local radio and media. Shock journalism is alive and well in 2009.

That author was a sportswriter for the Technician when I was in school at NC State. He's definitely a State homer.

[dubayuw]

Calipari to UK.... This should improve our chances our getting Wall. He said that he was waiting to see what happened at Memphis and now he knows.

[BlueintheFace]

Blue, I love your posts but could you explain how the team would have to change its identity? Having a true PG can only help, no?

I can't really elaborate too much on content because I forgot, that is a premium article. However, it is my impression from that article and plenty of others that K is willing to drastically change the tempo of our offense and put the ball in Wall's hands to create and score as much as he can (essentially making him the #1 option). This is not neccesarily a bad thing from a strategic standpoint. However, I see an increased risk for chemistry issues when a one-and-done joins a senior team and becomes the primary option... especially a senior team with the talent and current chemistry that ours has.

Doesn't mean it will happen, I'm just saying that chances of chemistry issues grow in such circumstances.

[dubayuw]

On rivals.com, John Wall's interest level in Duke has gone from LOW to MEDIUM. HOORAY!!!;)

[chrisheery]

Or finally able to do what he had in mind for this collection of players since they were recruited. Everyone thought Paulus would push the ball and make plays in the open court, but that never happened. We have a team custom made to push up and down the court, except one thing. We don't have a PG. I don't think Coach K would be "changing" things. I think he would finally be able to execute the plan he has had since he saw how great it could be as the coach of the US olympic team.

We have shooters, mobile big men (save one), and 3 wings that can finish (Elliot, G, and Nolan). A stud PG would only help all these guys meet their potential. Who amongst them wouldn't love to 1. win, 2. look like better players by playing with a great player? Similar to UNC, every player would look better because they would have a pure ball-handling stud taking all the pressure off of them and allow them to play their games.

[FireOgilvie]

I can't really elaborate too much on content because I forgot, that is a premium article. However, it is my impression from that article and plenty of others that K is willing to drastically change the tempo of our offense and put the ball in Wall's hands to create and score as much as he can (essentially making him the #1 option).

Perhaps I am wrong

Which, in my opinion, is great... we just put up 54 against Villanova and all year our offense was too hit or miss on making jumpshots/3 pointers. We need someone, like Wall, to create easy points for the offense. If Wall is successful, then we do very well next season, and if he is unsuccessful, we go away from that approach and go back to our previous style. I don't understand why this is such a problem. People need to have a little bit more faith in Coach K, IMO.

Edit: chrisheery is exactly right. ^

[jimsumner]

"I might be taking this quote wrong but when has Duke ever really landed kids from NC?"

Duke has had sporadic success with NC kids. Lots in the 1940s and 1950s, not so much in the 1960s until Randy Denton and Brad Evans. John Harrell and Kenny Dennard were Foster's.

K has recruited David Henderson, Kevin Strickland, Robert Brickey, Jeff Capel, and Shavlik Randolph from NC high schools. Now, all of a sudden we've got Kelly, the two Plumlees and the possibility of Wall. Not sure if Duke is showing more interest in NC kids or NC kids are showing more interest in Duke.

Or maybe it's an abberation. I guess we'll find out down the road.

[chrisheery]

Edit: chrisheery is exactly right. ^

YES!!! I'm sending this link to my mom.

[roywhite]

"I might be taking this quote wrong but when has Duke ever really landed kids from NC?"

Duke has had sporadic success with NC kids. Lots in the 1940s and 1950s, not so much in the 1960s until Randy Denton and Brad Evans. John Harrell and Kenny Dennard were Foster's.

K has recruited David Henderson, Kevin Strickland, Robert Brickey, Jeff Capel, and Shavlik Randolph from NC high schools. Now, all of a sudden we've got Kelly, the two Plumlees and the possibility of Wall. Not sure if Duke is showing more interest in NC kids or NC kids are showing more interest in Duke.

Or maybe it's an abberation. I guess we'll find out down the road.

Interesting that it also co-incides with Coach Cut getting more commitments from in-state players.

[Greg_Newton]

If Wall by some chance does to come to Duke, our personnel would be much more suited for an up-tempo style than this year (whether or not G returns). We would be losing Paulus and McClure, who are really half-court contributors (not run and jump athletes). We would be adding (knock on wood) a speedy, explosive point guard (Wall), a super athletic big man who lacks a back to the basket game but can hit his head on the rim (Mason), and a long, versatile, slender power forward (Kelly)... all three of whom seem to be better jumping on the run/off of one foot. If we're really lucky, we could even see some minutes from another hit-your-head-on-the-rim athlete (Czyz). Throw in a Nolan here, an Elliot there, a G if we're really lucky, and add it all to the fact that we'd be a legitimate 10-11 deep, and you've got the ingredients for a team that coud run this year's UNC squad right out of the gym, IMO. Alright, I'm getting too excited, I'll get back to crossing my fingers...

Side note: Tyreke Evans is also leaving Memphis. Not sure what effect this might have on wall, if he was even still considering Memphis, but...
http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/9402352/Evans-to-leave-Memphis-for-NBA

[miramar]

On rivals.com, John Wall's interest level in Duke has gone from LOW to MEDIUM. HOORAY!!!;)

But Memphis is also listed as medium. I think somebody needs to update that.

BTW, I think the biggest winner in all of this is Elliot Williams. Remember when a lot of people had him as a lock to stay home and play for Coach Cal?

[wisteria]

But Memphis is also listed as medium. I think somebody needs to update that.

BTW, I think the biggest winner in all of this is Elliot Williams. Remember when a lot of people had him as a lock to stay home and play for Coach Cal?

And there were plenty of rumors about E-mails transferring to Memphis.

[chrisheery]

And there were plenty of rumors about E-mails transferring to Memphis.

When? By whom? Every interview I have read with Elliot makes him sound like he loves it at Duke. He is thrilled with how the year went for him personally with development and Nate James taking him under his wing.

Really, please provide a link to said rumors.

[wisteria]

When? By whom? Every interview I have read with Elliot makes him sound like he loves it at Duke. He is thrilled with how the year went for him personally with development and Nate James taking him under his wing.

Really, please provide a link to said rumors.

:confused: They were called internet rumors because there were no real info and no real links....

[chrisheery]

:confused: They were called internet rumors because there were no real info and no real links....

Then why say it? You are only propagating something you even recognize is likely untrue.

[soccerstud2210]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Duke did not change it's offense for Chris Duhon in his freshman year



My recent post has nothing at all to do with Wall's personality. I simply pointed out that this seems to be a wholly unique situation, and that, if we were to get him and somebody asked me what my #1 concern is for next season, I would say chemistry.

1) Senior/Junior laden team with great chemistry
2) Freshman PG told that team will change offensive identity for him
3) Freshman PG does not expect to stay in program and with teammates for more than one basketball season.

... look at those three points. You could put any name or background to the Freshman in that scenario and it would give me pause. I'm not saying Chemistry WILL be an issue, but looking at the facts, it COULD be.

if you were on duke, and coach k told you that the number 1 recruit, pg, in the nation was added to the roster and would quickly bolster your chances of winning the national championship this coming year, i doubt you would have any of those 3 thoughts. your thought would be, LETS DO THIS!!

and do you know that coach K told Wall that we were going to change the offense just for him?

[Dukebasketball32]

Man do i really want this kid. I think if wall comes, we are solid top 5 and have a decent chance at a national championship. Even if G leaves. Unfortunately, i dont think this is going to happen. Everyone on here is also forgetting about Baylor. They gave his AAU coach a job and if the whole scholarship availability thing doesnt work out at kentucky, there is a big chance he will end up at Baylor. But im really crossing my fingers for this. Coach K better impress on wednesday in the phone convo.

[cameroncrazy3104]

All I have to say is it is down to 3 schools for him Duke, Kentucky, an Baylor.

Duke because he is from the area and he apparently had a good visit with Coach K

Kentucky because he was interested in Memphis and now John Calapari is coaching Kentucky

Baylor because his AAU coach is one of the coaches there

However if we do get him and gerald comes back we are going to have to be ranked #1 pre season or at least a favorite to win a national championship

[chrisheery]

Coach K wouldn't need to CHANGE the offense. He would be playing the offense for which the talent is best suited . . . if it had a stud PG. If you recall how we tried to play last year, when we were shooting well to start the year, we played up and down shot quickly and pushed as much as we could. It became obvious when we weren't shooting well that that would not work and we pulled back to playing more half court style. This year, we tried to do that again with Nolan running the point, but again, he wasn't ideally suited for it (though he is tremendously talented). Next year, we have all the talent we could ask for to run this system, we are just missing the one guy that could put it all together.

None of your points make sense because they are based on the flawed logic that Coach K would be rearranging everything. Instead, he would be adding a final part that makes his supercharged machine go really really fast, the way he has wanted to play for the last three years.

[Dukefan4Life]

As much as id like to see wall come here i doubt that he will. Even if he does come its more than likely he wil be 1nDone, and who is to say that he will dominate like he has in highschool??? But with all that said id like to see him come here! Go DUKE!

[Edouble]

If Wall by some chance does to come to Duke, our personnel would be much more suited for an up-tempo style than this year (whether or not G returns). We would be losing Paulus and McClure, who are really half-court contributors (not run and jump athletes). We would be adding (knock on wood) a speedy, explosive point guard (Wall), a super athletic big man who lacks a back to the basket game but can hit his head on the rim (Mason), and a long, versatile, slender power forward (Kelly)... all three of whom seem to be better jumping on the run/off of one foot. If we're really lucky, we could even see some minutes from another hit-your-head-on-the-rim athlete (Czyz). Throw in a Nolan here, an Elliot there, a G if we're really lucky, and add it all to the fact that we'd be a legitimate 10-11 deep, and you've got the ingredients for a team that coud run this year's UNC squad right out of the gym, IMO. Alright, I'm getting too excited, I'll get back to crossing my fingers...


Can Singler get some PT too? ;)

[Greg_Newton]

Can Singler get some PT too? ;)

Haha... yes, I suppose he might squeak in some minutes, along with our seniors. My point there was just to mention the depth and abundance of explosive run-and-jump athletes on that hypothetical team that would thrive off of the fast break. Jon and Kyle would certainly get more open looks with John Wall running point and pushing the ball, and Lance and Z would certainly be important pieces of the aforementioned 10-11 man rotation... I just didn't want to drag my post on too much longer!

[shotrocksplitter]

Coach K wouldn't need to CHANGE the offense.

I agree here. I think our situation is more like 2005 than people think. We've got the potential for a hot-shot PG to come into a team that has legit scorers, but needs a catalyst.

Wall's ability to drive and finish opens up the entire offense. Defenses will be forced to help a lot on him, meaning Wall will attract the attention of 2-5 of the defenders. G, Jon, Elliot, Nolan, and Kyle can all follow-up and drive and score. The same group can also all hit the open shots. We've got a couple post guys (especially if the Plumlee's prove to be as good as I think they could be) that he can dish to.

If the offense gets more up-tempo, I'll be even happier. Our game is best in transition, but because we tend to grind it out in the half-court offense, it only comes on intercepted passes. To use the most famous example, UNC runs and runs and runs, and Duke can too. To have a lightning PG running the show, kicking to others who flourish at speed, means that it all runs more smoothly.

I despise baby blue, but have wished that Duke played at that pace for years. Next year we absolutely have the athleticism and depth to push the tempo every possession. That's not so much a redesigned offense, but the way our offense runs if we don't get caught in half-court sets.

[Memphis Devil]

Coach K wouldn't need to CHANGE the offense. He would be playing the offense for which the talent is best suited . . . if it had a stud PG. If you recall how we tried to play last year, when we were shooting well to start the year, we played up and down shot quickly and pushed as much as we could. It became obvious when we weren't shooting well that that would not work and we pulled back to playing more half court style. This year, we tried to do that again with Nolan running the point, but again, he wasn't ideally suited for it (though he is tremendously talented). Next year, we have all the talent we could ask for to run this system, we are just missing the one guy that could put it all together.

None of your points make sense because they are based on the flawed logic that Coach K would be rearranging everything. Instead, he would be adding a final part that makes his supercharged machine go really really fast, the way he has wanted to play for the last three years.

I like to refer to this as the "Flux Capacitor" arguement. You are not really changing anything, simply adding the piece that is needed to achieve the desired goal. Everything about our offense would be better with a dominant, penetrating point guard. Everything about the Delorean was better when the flux capacitor was added. Simple, no? Life is so much easier when you just relate everything "Back to the Future".

By the way, I am setting my dial back to 2001!

[flyingdutchdevil]

According to rivals, Kentucky has four players signed to play. Considering the high profile (and success) of Coach Cal, I doubt these players are going to ask to be released.

That said, Cousins has not signed a LOI with Memphis, so he will most likely follow Cal. I think the other Memphis players, especially Xavier Henry, are screwed as the University probably won't release them (I could be very wrong here - Miles Plumlee was released from Stanford with ease). That said, if they are released, Memphis has three 4-star recruits other than Henry.

Also, Kentucky has virtually no seniors (they have one) and both Meeks and Patterson are here to stay. Thus, Kentucky definitely has a major scholy issue. Can they take on both Henry, Cousins and Wall?

This is a huge break for Duke. I think the scholy situation will automatically deter Wall from Kentucky (and vice versa). This is huge. That makes me excited.

Another thing, and this is MY OPINION only. I've read on this thread that Coach K will give the keys to Wall next year and make him the number 1 option. Wouldn't that give G a little more reason to leave for the League? A senior having to give his keys to a freshman is a big deal. I'm not saying that G wouldn't - he definitely would - but inside he wouldn't be happy about it...

[DukieBoy]

Andy Katz was on Sportscenter this morning saying that

Xaiver Henry won't go to UK.
Demarcus Cousins will go to UK.
John Wall is still a undecided between UK, Duke, and Memphis.

[mgtr]

I like to refer to this as the "Flux Capacitor" arguement.

Say, how did you get that bump on your head? :D

[Travi_K]

Just the prospect that Wall could end up here is very exciting as of a couple weeks ago it seemed very unliely. I truly can't think of a better situation to land a one and done player than next year. Ask Syracuse about that (Carmelo Anthony) This would truly spell Duke until we get our 10' class in. Also, I (assume ) Curry to run against Wall daily in practice and the staff can see what both players are made of defensively since highlight vids don't show much on that end. KY still has a lot of dirty work to do in order to free him a spot and even if Wall goes to KY it is probably not going to be pretty, however very entertaining for outsiders. The biggest curb to my excitement is that N&O article from a couple mons ago that just had tons of negative quotes from Wall's (older friends I will call them) about Wall coming to a school like Duke. Hopefully K's meeting softens that blow a little but this at least gives us hope.

[NYDukie]

Per a report on one of the major media outlets internet site (ESPN, SI, FoxSports or CBS), X. Henry and I believe N. Dennis, too, had clauses put into writing with Memphis that should Coach Cal leave that they would have the right to be released from their LOI.

Will be very interesting to see how the Kentucky scholarship situation plays out. My personal feeling is that if there is a spot at UK for Wall, he goes there but things are looking better for Duke regarding Wall. Whether that is for the best, is another thing many are debating!

[quickgtp]

http://www.zagsblog.com/2009/03/31/calipari-to-kentucky-recruits-in-flux/#more-14279

I put money on Wall following Calipari to UK.

[CMS2478]

http://www.zagsblog.com/2009/03/31/calipari-to-kentucky-recruits-in-flux/#more-14279

I put money on Wall following Calipari to UK.

Yeah, me too. I actually got my hopes up a bit.....but now reality is starting to set back in. :(

[yancem]

Another thing, and this is MY OPINION only. I've read on this thread that Coach K will give the keys to Wall next year and make him the number 1 option. Wouldn't that give G a little more reason to leave for the League? A senior having to give his keys to a freshman is a big deal. I'm not saying that G wouldn't - he definitely would - but inside he wouldn't be happy about it...

I think you are misreading the situation. Wall getting the keys to the car will not likely mean he will be jacking up 25 shots a game. It more likely means that he will given the opportunity to have his hands on the ball to drive the tempo of the game. A faster offense would benefit everyone on the team except probably Zoubek. With wall running the break and Henderson running on the wing, there would most likely be a lot of dunks made available for G.

If anything, I would think that Wall coming to Duke would be more likely to entice Henderson to stay. Duke would be a top 2-3 team with a legitimate chance at going to the final four and possibly winning the national championship. With a quick, great passing pg on the floor distracting defenses, Henderson would have more room to work and wouldn't be double teamed as often. His overall shot attempts might go down slightly but his offensive efficiency should improve.

[CDu]

According to rivals, Kentucky has four players signed to play. Considering the high profile (and success) of Coach Cal, I doubt these players are going to ask to be released.

That said, Cousins has not signed a LOI with Memphis, so he will most likely follow Cal. I think the other Memphis players, especially Xavier Henry, are screwed as the University probably won't release them (I could be very wrong here - Miles Plumlee was released from Stanford with ease). That said, if they are released, Memphis has three 4-star recruits other than Henry.

Also, Kentucky has virtually no seniors (they have one) and both Meeks and Patterson are here to stay. Thus, Kentucky definitely has a major scholy issue. Can they take on both Henry, Cousins and Wall?

This is a huge break for Duke. I think the scholy situation will automatically deter Wall from Kentucky (and vice versa). This is huge. That makes me excited.

Another thing, and this is MY OPINION only. I've read on this thread that Coach K will give the keys to Wall next year and make him the number 1 option. Wouldn't that give G a little more reason to leave for the League? A senior having to give his keys to a freshman is a big deal. I'm not saying that G wouldn't - he definitely would - but inside he wouldn't be happy about it...

Kentucky currently has four recruits, three of whom have signed letters of intent. They also have a lot of players (theoretically) returning. This does raise the question as to how they are going to obtain all of these players.

I know they can take away scholarships at their discretion annually, and perhaps they can encourage some of their lesser recruits to de-commit, given that the coach who recruited them left. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

But if they had four recruits coming in, that means they probably had scholarship space. Thus, if they "allow"/encourage some (or all) of those recruits to re-open their recruiting, they would have plenty of room for Wall and Cousins.

[UrinalCake]

I put money on Wall following Calipari to UK.

Nothing in that article said to me that he's any more likely to go to UK than to Duke. It sounds like he just hasn't decided.

[UrinalCake]

BTW out of curiousity, have Xavier Henry, Demarcus Cousins, or Lance Stephenson ever shown any interest in Duke? Or could any other ACC schools possibly be affected by these three players re-opening their recruitment?

[roywhite]

According to rivals, Kentucky has four players signed to play. Considering the high profile (and success) of Coach Cal, I doubt these players are going to ask to be released.

That said, Cousins has not signed a LOI with Memphis, so he will most likely follow Cal. I think the other Memphis players, especially Xavier Henry, are screwed as the University probably won't release them (I could be very wrong here - Miles Plumlee was released from Stanford with ease). That said, if they are released, Memphis has three 4-star recruits other than Henry.

Also, Kentucky has virtually no seniors (they have one) and both Meeks and Patterson are here to stay. Thus, Kentucky definitely has a major scholy issue. Can they take on both Henry, Cousins and Wall?

This is a huge break for Duke. I think the scholy situation will automatically deter Wall from Kentucky (and vice versa). This is huge. That makes me excited.




I posted some info about the Memphis/KY scholarship situation in the Coaching Carousel Thread (post #112 on page 6 of that thread), which says essentially that UK was 2 over on scholarship players plus signed recruits, and that Memphis has had (for the last few years, apparently) recruits sign a separate document with their LOI, one that grants them a release from Memphis in the event the coach leaves, a kind of pre-authorized release.

So Calipari and KY have some work to do in finding scholarships by encouraging existing players or recruits to go elsewhere, but may be able to bring in some players who already committed to Memphis and one or two (Cousins and Wall?) who have not yet committed.

This is a pretty dubious practice, IMO, for a coach to be able to pick and choose among the recruiting classes of two schools. I don't know whether this would create a problem with the NCAA or not, but they may be able to pull it off.

I do agree that this whole situation presents an opportunity for Duke and Coach K to get a commitment from John Wall.

[CMS2478]

Nothing in that article said to me that he's any more likely to go to UK than to Duke. It sounds like he just hasn't decided.


Well the part where the reporter asked him if he would consider following Cal to Uk and his repsonse was.....something like "yeah I would probably consider following him." Granted that is just him saying he would consider it, but I will be SHOCKED if Wall does not committ to UK.

[roywhite]

Well the part where the reporter asked him if he would consider following Cal to Uk and his repsonse was.....something like "yeah I would probably consider following him." Granted that is just him saying he would consider it, but I will be SHOCKED if Wall does not committ to UK.

I have no inside info, but don't see why Duke is not a reasonable choice here. Playing opportunity, quality of coaching, national exposure, quality of the school, quality of the team are all as good or better at Duke. And it's 30 miles away from his home.

If Wall had been absolutely devoted to Calipari, why hadn't he committed to Memphis already?

[CMS2478]

I have no inside info, but don't see why Duke is not a reasonable choice here. Playing opportunity, quality of coaching, national exposure, quality of the school, quality of the team are all as good or better at Duke. And it's 30 miles away from his home.

If Walll had been absolutely devoted to Calipari, why hadn't he committed to Memphis already?

Oh, I'm not arguing that Duke isn't a great choice for Wall and I sincerely hope I'm wrong. I guess it's just the recent misses that have me in a pessamistic (sp?) mood. I view Wall as a long shot since we have really just turned up the heat here so late in his recruitment. If he comes I will be pleasantly surprised, if he goes to UK......I won't be surprised at all.

[K-Duke]

Oh, I'm not arguing that Duke isn't a great choice for Wall and I sincerely hope I'm wrong. I guess it's just the recent misses that have me in a pessamistic (sp?) mood. I view Wall as a long shot since we have really just turned up the heat here so late in his recruitment. If he comes I will be pleasantly surprised, if he goes to UK......I won't be surprised at all.

I agree, in the sense that the Calipari to UK developments don't convince me that Wall will come to Duke. It's certainly possible, but I don't think anybody would be surprised to see Wall choose UK at this point.

[alteran]

Nothing in that article said to me that he's any more likely to go to UK than to Duke. It sounds like he just hasn't decided.

Agreed. He sounded to me like a kid who gets bugged a hundred and fifty times a day with the same question giving as non-committal an answer as he could.

[NYDukie]

I have no inside info, but don't see why Duke is not a reasonable choice here. Playing opportunity, quality of coaching, national exposure, quality of the school, quality of the team are all as good or better at Duke. And it's 30 miles away from his home.

If Walll had been absolutely devoted to Calipari, why hadn't he committed to Memphis already?

I think we may be overselling the aspect of a Duke education to Wall. Let's be honest, even though Duke is a top rated academic institution, Wall isn't going to Duke to major in economics or the like but rather major in "NBA" and use whichever school he chooses as a stepping stone to the league. I know there is great debate on the board on which direction should Coach K lean here but let's look at it from Wall's perspective. Let's say it's down to Baylor, Duke or UK...which would allow him the perfect environment to get to the league? I would have to say UK pending the scholarship situation. At UK he would start from day one, be in a free flowing offense, have national exposure and have a coach who would develop him for the league. These are all characteristics Duke has too. However, there would not be the academic pressure to succeed or keep up the pace at UK as there would be at Duke. At UK he could just focus on basketball. It just makes more sense for him.

[Kedsy]

Nothing in that article said to me that he's any more likely to go to UK than to Duke. It sounds like he just hasn't decided.

Nothing in the article says that it's a two-team race, either. He still listed Kansas, Baylor, Miami, and State. It's hard to see Miami or State, but it seems to me Kansas and Baylor might still be in the running as well as Duke and Kentucky.

[coldriver10]

I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but I don't see the difficulty of the academics playing much of a role. For a guy that knows he's going to make the NBA jump after a year (maybe two), you don't need to take anything difficult. Granted the average Duke class is probably more difficult than the equivalent at KY, there are plenty of classes at Duke that aren't that hard...especially if you don't need an A.

Just curious, what GPA do you need to remain eligible?

[-bdbd]

I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but I don't see the difficulty of the academics playing much of a role. For a guy that knows he's going to make the NBA jump after a year (maybe two), you don't need to take anything difficult. Granted the average Duke class is probably more difficult than the equivalent at KY, there are plenty of classes at Duke that aren't that hard...especially if you don't need an A.

Just curious, what GPA do you need to remain eligible?

...and anyway (not that we'd ever encourage it at all), but for a 1-and-done player only the Fall semester (and summer?) counts anyway... Not at all typical of Duke, but at many schools kids who are entering the draft will frequently stop going to class. Eligibility applies to the term AFTERward. That said, John seems like a very bright kid and , as was said, should have no problems with Duke academics. Not that opposing coaches might not try to use that...

-BDBD