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View Full Version : 2008-09 Tyler Hansbrough discussion



riverside6
10-30-2008, 09:04 PM
ACC Now (http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/hansbrough-out-indefinitely) just reported this, here's a bit more from my site (http://www.scacchoops.com/tt_NewsBreaker_External.asp?NB=1298).

CameronCrazy'11
10-30-2008, 09:06 PM
I'm guessing no one really knows anything, but how long will he be out?

roywhite
10-30-2008, 09:07 PM
Thanks for the info.

Any orthopods or other medical types that can provide some context on this type of problem?

riverside6
10-30-2008, 09:08 PM
I'm guessing no one really knows anything, but how long will he be out?

I'm not a doctor, but I just googled the injury and gave a few examples on my site. It looks like it could be anywhere from a few days to weeks. Michigan State's Raymar Morgan missed 5 weeks with the same injury.

CameronCrazy'11
10-30-2008, 09:28 PM
I'm not a doctor, but I just googled the injury and gave a few examples on my site. It looks like it could be anywhere from a few days to weeks. Michigan State's Raymar Morgan missed 5 weeks with the same injury.

If that's the case, then this is good news for the Heels. Hansbrough and Ginyard sit out for a month or two and the bench players really get some good practice playing in tough games (well they would if the Roy scheduled some tough ones). Then Hansbrough and Ginyard come back, and have stellar replacements coming off the bench. If the chemistry can hold up, this will probably be a blessing in disguise.

COYS
10-30-2008, 09:49 PM
I really feel bad for the guy. He may wear the wrong shade of blue, but passing up millions to come back for your senior year in hopes of winning that elusive title for your school is an admirable choice, regardless of how wealthy his family might be. Hope he makes it back onto the court soon.

Edouble
10-30-2008, 09:55 PM
If that's the case, then this is good news for the Heels. Hansbrough and Ginyard sit out for a month or two and the bench players really get some good practice playing in tough games (well they would if the Roy scheduled some tough ones). Then Hansbrough and Ginyard come back, and have stellar replacements coming off the bench. If the chemistry can hold up, this will probably be a blessing in disguise.

These are my immediate thoughts as well, but there is an alternative scenario: What if the Hansolo-less, Ginyard-less 'Heels go 12-0? Then everyone has to take a back seat when the big fella' returns? That could lead to more chemistry problems, aka "We were fine without Hansbrough, really running and putting the hurt on. Now we have to slow it and throw it in to him every time down the floor?"

Lord Ash
10-30-2008, 10:14 PM
Who cares how long until he comes back, as long as it makes it harder for him to break JJs record.

Dukeford
10-30-2008, 10:40 PM
I really feel bad for the guy. He may wear the wrong shade of blue, but passing up millions to come back for your senior year in hopes of winning that elusive title for your school is an admirable choice, regardless of how wealthy his family might be. Hope he makes it back onto the court soon.

Kudos to COYS for showing great sportsmanship with that post.
I was thinking the same thing about HansTravel earlier this week, seriously.

Oriole Way
10-30-2008, 10:46 PM
These are my immediate thoughts as well, but there is an alternative scenario: What if the Hansolo-less, Ginyard-less 'Heels go 12-0? Then everyone has to take a back seat when the big fella' returns? That could lead to more chemistry problems, aka "We were fine without Hansbrough, really running and putting the hurt on. Now we have to slow it and throw it in to him every time down the floor?"

Even if UNC goes undefeated and looks great without him, I don't see how anyone would possibly think that.

Edouble
10-30-2008, 11:11 PM
Even if UNC goes undefeated and looks great without him, I don't see how anyone would possibly think that.

Well, it would be the same people that thought they were first round draft picks.

CameronCrazy'11
10-30-2008, 11:42 PM
Well, it would be the same people that thought they were first round draft picks.

Chemistry was already a question mark for the holes, and this definitely isn't going to make it any better. They're going to have to retool their offense without Hansbrough, and it will involve guys like Lawson, Ellington, and Green taking a whole lot more shots. Then they're going to be told that if they don't pass the pall to Hansbrough, they can sit. K could manage a problem like this, but I don't know how Roy will deal with it.

Dukeford
10-30-2008, 11:53 PM
I just hope Green starts this year for UNC.

That way, hopefully we won't have to see that **** dancing on the sidelines from him right before tip-off.

bludvlman
10-31-2008, 12:11 AM
more important than anything will this help JJ keep his record?

ncexnyc
10-31-2008, 12:53 AM
With a team as talented and as deep as UNC this can only make them stronger. The young guns will get to cut their teeth and get some real crunchtime experience instead of the garbage time that they normally would.

I'm not really concerned with the record. If it falls then Hasbro earned it. I seriously doubt JJ would want the record knowing that he held onto it due to Hasbro getting hurt.

Seth Davis has his profile on UNC currently up and he makes them sound positively awesome. I guess we should just mail in the season.

Edouble
10-31-2008, 12:58 AM
more important than anything will this help JJ keep his record?

Well, it looks like it could come into play. If he misses the full five weeks that seem to be the max time an athlete with this injury has missed, he'd return for the 'Heels Dec 13th match against Oral Roberts. That would mean he'd play in 22 regular season games. If you assume that UNC will play 3 games in the ACC Tournament and at least 2 games in the NCAAs, then Hanstravel would be playing in 27 games, needing a 22.3 ppg average to accumulate the 602 points needed to pass Redick.

This is assuming that he doesn't come back in two weeks though. We really have no idea how long he'll be out.

Even if he's missing the max time for this injury, Roy may want the big guy back for the Dec 3rd meeting with Michigan State. In that case, Hanstravel would have an extra game to get to the record. If the 'Heels get to the FF, that's another 2 games.

Even with the injury, Redick's record isn't looking so hot.

kramerbr
10-31-2008, 06:49 AM
My guess is the injury occured during a square dancing skit at Late Night with Soulja Roy.

Highlander
10-31-2008, 07:05 AM
ACC Now (http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/hansbrough-out-indefinitely) just reported this, here's a bit more from my site (http://www.scacchoops.com/tt_NewsBreaker_External.asp?NB=1298).

This just in. Gerald Henderson under investigation for an intentional knee to the shin of Hansbrough in a pickup game.

roywhite
10-31-2008, 07:11 AM
Any truth to the story that the doctor diagnosed the injury, and then awarded TH two free throws?

riverside6
10-31-2008, 07:20 AM
Hansbrough definitely won't be called for any walking violations now.

BD80
10-31-2008, 07:34 AM
The doctors concluded the injury was due to excessive traveling at such an advanced age (he turns 23 on Monday).

They recommend rest and soaking his leg in frozen peas:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...sBB/Hans-1.jpg

Anyone think such recreation had any impact on the injury?

Oh, yeah, the doctors also recommend he cut back to 3 1/2 steps after picking up his dribble.

devildeac
10-31-2008, 07:43 AM
This just in. Gerald Henderson under investigation for an intentional knee to the shin of Hansbrough in a pickup game.

Guilty.
Ejection.
One game suspension.

MChambers
10-31-2008, 07:43 AM
These are my immediate thoughts as well, but there is an alternative scenario: What if the Hansolo-less, Ginyard-less 'Heels go 12-0? Then everyone has to take a back seat when the big fella' returns? That could lead to more chemistry problems, aka "We were fine without Hansbrough, really running and putting the hurt on. Now we have to slow it and throw it in to him every time down the floor?"

Have you considered that maybe you are a little evil? I like your idea, however, so I guess maybe I am too.

devildeac
10-31-2008, 07:55 AM
Serious response now.

I'd trust his dad's statement on the recovery time. Probably 4-6 weeks based on my son's experience, althought he had a stress fracture of his tibia and not a stress "reaction." Not sure of the difference. Not sure why Hansbro even had an MRI if he had no symptoms, assuming I read some of the reports correctly. There must have been some discomfort for the scan to even be ordered. My son's was diagnosed with a bone scan and not an MRI and he had about 2-3 weeks of no running but he rode a stationary bike and swam every day. He was allowed to start running when the pain (minor) decreased significantly but no "cuts" or lateral movements until the pain was gone completely-about 3-4 weeks. He was back to full speed training after about 6 weeks and had no permanent disability. The orthopod's main concern was that if he returned to full training too quickly, the stress fracture would become a full "break" and he'd be out for 6-8 months.

brianl
10-31-2008, 07:56 AM
I really feel bad for the guy. He may wear the wrong shade of blue, but passing up millions to come back for your senior year in hopes of winning that elusive title for your school is an admirable choice, regardless of how wealthy his family might be. Hope he makes it back onto the court soon.

I agree. There are many elements that make up a good rivalry. The biggest of these is respect and I think Hans is probably the one heel player that I have consistently respected during his career. The guy just seems to work hard.

I wish him a quick recovery.

GO DUKE!!

sandinmyshoes
10-31-2008, 08:52 AM
I seem to remember people here saying that UNC would have chemistry problems last year. They chemistried themselves into first place ACC finish, ACC championship and Final Four berth. It reminds me of the jab DBR tried to make asking if UNC could play slow in the style they suggested came with the tourney. Well, they played "slow" enough to be one of the last four teams standing.

I'm not buy into any of it. I just hope we improve enough to beat them straight up rather than relying on the hope that they slip back.

riverside6
10-31-2008, 08:55 AM
Chemistry is only a factor when a team starts to lose (see NC State last year). As long as a team wins, disgruntled players seem to stay quiet.

Scorp4me
10-31-2008, 09:29 AM
Hanstravel's a big boy which could cause the problem to linger. The same was said of Boozer at the time he broke his foot, course they don't have the advantages of the Duke Medical center, lol.

I do agree with everyone who wishes this kid nothing but the best when it comes to injuries and health. I may dislike Carolina...hate most of their fans...but never want to see a kid get hurt. But Roy should be fair game. I never agreed with it, but a few years back the Carolina Fan base claimed that K should literally force players out if they were to go high in the draft, it was his duty they claimed. So I feel bad for Roy cause I'm sure the fans are pointing out his greed has lead to this injury.

Thank goodness my dad raised me right as a Duke fan.

Devilsfan
10-31-2008, 09:37 AM
I wish him nothing but the best and hope he makes a full recovery by May of '09. Come to think of it he didn't seem to play very well in the Kansas game. Maybe Roy can redshirt him. He may want a 25 year old on the squad next year.

BlueintheFace
10-31-2008, 09:39 AM
Come on guys. Put yourself in Tar Heel shoes for a second....

THE SKY IS FALLING, THE SKY IS FALLING AHHHHHHHHH!!!!

Son of Mojo
10-31-2008, 10:33 AM
I could never put myself in their shoes--that's hard to do for us ordinary humans given that they walk above the ground......

DBFAN
10-31-2008, 10:42 AM
the doctors concluded the injury was due to excessive traveling at such an advanced age (he turns 23 on monday).

They recommend rest and soaking his leg in frozen peas:

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...sbb/hans-1.jpg

anyone think such recreation had any impact on the injury?

Oh, yeah, the doctors also recommend he cut back to 3 1/2 steps after picking up his dribble.

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

bigj4194
10-31-2008, 10:48 AM
I really feel bad for the guy. He may wear the wrong shade of blue, but passing up millions to come back for your senior year in hopes of winning that elusive title for your school is an admirable choice, regardless of how wealthy his family might be. Hope he makes it back onto the court soon.

Kudos COYS...I completely agree with you.

I do not think Hans-sucks-at-life will be out that long as he is basically out with just shin splints. IMO he should be back by the ACC season. That said...this can be a recurring problem once you have them, so it could be something that plagues him in the future. Just my $0.02

UrinalCake
10-31-2008, 10:54 AM
K could manage a problem like this, but I don't know how Roy will deal with it.

Well, based on how he handled Lawson's injury last year, I'd say Roy will probably do... absolutely nothing.

BlueintheFace
10-31-2008, 11:04 AM
... and Tyler never jumped off a frat house in to a swimming pool again. Theeeee End.

billy
10-31-2008, 11:11 AM
Ortho sports med perspective:

MRI's very sensitive to stress fractures/reactions. Basically, stress reactions occur when the stresses placed on a bone exceed its capacity to heal them. Bones remodel continuously, guided by the stresses placed on them. When too much stress (i.e. repeated impact from running/jumping/landing) occurs, the regenerative process can't keep up and the bone essentially becomes weak in the area of the repeated stresses. If the activity/stresses continue, eventually the bone weakens so much that a true fracture (crack in the bone) develops. Other things that can contribute to a stress fracture include postural abnormalities (muscle tightness/weakness), balance, bony alignment, and flopping too much (ok, the last one is a stretch but had to put it in there). Haven't seen greybeard's name pop up much lately, but, I'm sure he could expound at great length the various other "kinetic" predisposing factors.

The time to healing depends on a lot of factors. A general rule of thumb is about six weeks. A heavier person with increased activity levels may take a bit longer to heal. If there is a predisposing anatomic abnormality, like an old ankle or foot injury or tight hip musculature, the recovery may take longer and may be incomplete.

You can bet Hansbrough will be doing pool conditioning and probably cycling to keep his conditioning up. He'll likely be allowed to practice his shot from a standing, not jumping, position. The more strain he puts on it while it's healing the longer it will take to heal, though. I imagine that he'll have perhaps several MRI's at UNC (owning the scanners sure is convenient) to gauge the healing.

These things are unpredictable sometimes - recall Horvath's tibial bone bruise (different location in the same bone from completely different cause) that lingered for so long. Hopefully it will be completely healed by Feb 11th so there are no excuses for their loss....

oldnavy
10-31-2008, 11:23 AM
Blue in the face beat me to the punch, could this injury be the result of Tyler's dive off the frat house???

BD80
10-31-2008, 11:24 AM
Come on guys. Put yourself in Tar Heel shoes for a second....


You mean their cloven hooves??

uncwdevil
10-31-2008, 11:46 AM
It is my understanding that Hansblo was predisposed to this type of injury, you know, with his Osteoporosis and everything...

Edouble
10-31-2008, 11:49 AM
Have you considered that maybe you are a little evil? I like your idea, however, so I guess maybe I am too.

Well, it is Halloween. :p

DukePA
10-31-2008, 12:38 PM
... and Tyler never jumped off a frat house in to a swimming pool again. Theeeee End.

I was waiting to see if someone else posted this before I did. I do hope he has a complete recovery. I'm just not saying when.

DBFAN
10-31-2008, 02:39 PM
It is my understanding that Hansblo was predisposed to this type of injury, you know, with his Osteoporosis and everything...

That is so funny!

kramerbr
11-01-2008, 10:39 AM
All joking aside, I think this is going to end up helping UNC. This is going to open up a ton more minutes for Davis and Zeller and help them develop. When Hansblah does return they should have some pretty experienced and confident freshman post players coming off the bench.

RainingThrees
11-01-2008, 10:55 AM
All joking aside, I think this is going to end up helping UNC. This is going to open up a ton more minutes for Davis and Zeller and help them develop. When Hansblah does return they should have some pretty experienced and confident freshman post players coming off the bench.

Like what happened to Lawson?

dukelifer
11-01-2008, 11:00 AM
All joking aside, I think this is going to end up helping UNC. This is going to open up a ton more minutes for Davis and Zeller and help them develop. When Hansblah does return they should have some pretty experienced and confident freshman post players coming off the bench.

It is true that this helps UNC if managed well. If everyone was healthy, they would have only a few games of consequence during the season. For UNC, this season is all about getting to the championship game. Keeping up good habits like playing good D etc would be hard for Ol Roy to promote when they are blowing out teams. But now that he can rest his star as he has a good excuse- and he can focus on his young guys and force the other big three to pick up the slack. Because the margin of error has been reduced, Ol' Roy should be able to keep everyone motivated. As Duke found out in 2001, adversity can sometimes be a good thing. The big question is how bad Hasblah wants to get the all time ACC scoring record. If he comes back too soon and plays like the old Psycho T - he may cause all kinds of other problems. It will be interesting to watch.

Oriole Way
11-01-2008, 11:45 AM
If I were a UNC fan, I'd be VERY concerned about him aggravating the injury once he comes back.

CameronBornAndBred
11-04-2008, 02:50 PM
Rivals.com lists Hansbrough (http://collegebasketball.rivals.com/photofeature.asp?fid=25472) as the 3rd most intimidating college basketball player. Maybe, but I think he has to wear his mask to make it work. They could not have found a better picture, I'm tempted to make it my desktop.

498

phaedrus
11-04-2008, 03:18 PM
When I think intimidating, I think "good defender". When I think "good defender", I don't think of Tyler Hansbrough.

dukebluelemur
11-04-2008, 03:34 PM
I dont know, "can trample you like a bunny caught in an elephant stampede, and not get called for a foul" is fairly intimidating.

BD80
11-04-2008, 04:25 PM
I dont know, "can trample you like a bunny caught in an elephant stampede, and not get called for a foul" is fairly intimidating.

The fact that he can do the trampling while carrying the basketball and not get called for traveling makes him a unanimous pre-season AA.

Huh?
11-04-2008, 07:59 PM
Could they not get someone who actually plays against him to comment? I certainly agree with Trevor Booker being in there.

Ben63
11-04-2008, 08:50 PM
3rd most intimidating ping-pong player. Maybe. College basketball - definitely not.

bigj4194
11-04-2008, 09:22 PM
im not intimidated by a player that can't put a coherent sentence together.

Ders24
11-04-2008, 10:20 PM
I didn't realize people thought Beaker was that intimidating?

Kimist
11-04-2008, 11:30 PM
Dean Dome definition of taking a charge: :p

weezie
11-05-2008, 08:00 AM
ON the other hand...both Psycho T and Frankenstein do have bangs. And bangs on men are pretty scary.

ClosetHurleyFan
11-06-2008, 11:29 AM
Been thinking about Tyler being out for a few weeks for UNC. More I think about it the more I think its actually very good for UNC, as (a) it allows Ed Davis and Tyler Zeller to get more minutes earlier and be ready for prime time later on and (b) it forces Deon Thompson to step it u a bit more, especially in Alex Stepheson's absence.

Thoughts from Duke land??

Jfrosh
11-06-2008, 11:37 AM
I agree. It's hard to ever think of an injury as a positive, but this is the time to have one. Everyone else gets more PT and experience and he has a slightly shorter season to endure the banging he gets. Of course I can't stand him when he plays against Duke, but otherwise I'm a big Tyler fan.

bigj4194
11-06-2008, 11:39 AM
I think you are correct...Tyler's injury may actually be good for UNC...it will allow their younger players especially the freshman to get more playing time as well as people who dont normally get to start getting the opportunity to start for them. Tyler getting hurt is though for them as he is their best player, but then again they aren't playing great teams other than Kentucky, Mich. St. and whoever they play in the Maui Invitational finals. I think it will give them a chance to grow as a team and getting the younger players more competent in their system.

then again (and here comes the bias) i also think its awesome for us...if they lose a game because hans-travel isn't playing they will most certainly drop in the rankings and we will then rise (that is assuming we don't lose a game early either).

Just my $0.02

SMO
11-06-2008, 11:55 AM
I agree. It's hard to ever think of an injury as a positive, but this is the time to have one. Everyone else gets more PT and experience and he has a slightly shorter season to endure the banging he gets. Of course I can't stand him when he plays against Duke, but otherwise I'm a big Tyler fan.

The only way it hurts them is if the injury lingers and impacts his entire season.

Kedsy
11-06-2008, 12:00 PM
Been thinking about Tyler being out for a few weeks for UNC. More I think about it the more I think its actually very good for UNC, as (a) it allows Ed Davis and Tyler Zeller to get more minutes earlier and be ready for prime time later on and (b) it forces Deon Thompson to step it u a bit more, especially in Alex Stepheson's absence.

Thoughts from Duke land??

I also agree. Lots of teams have emerged from early injuries to be better prepared for March.

The key to watch will be (a) how the team reacts once he (and Ginyard) return (one occasionally sees good early season chemistry disrupted if a star player with a very different skillset is thrown into or returned to the mix; I doubt that will happen in this case because Hansbrough has played with most of these guys for awhile, but you never know); and (b) whether the stress reaction is truly healed when he comes back. Because if the injury lingers, or recurs, then all the good you get now will be completely wiped out later.

davekay1971
11-06-2008, 12:04 PM
Been thinking about Tyler being out for a few weeks for UNC. More I think about it the more I think its actually very good for UNC, as (a) it allows Ed Davis and Tyler Zeller to get more minutes earlier and be ready for prime time later on and (b) it forces Deon Thompson to step it u a bit more, especially in Alex Stepheson's absence.

Thoughts from Duke land??

At this point in the year, it certainly doesn't hurt UNC. I'm not sure it helps that much, because this is the time of year for guys like Davis and Zeller to get solid minutes whether Flopborough's around or not. I expect UNC to take their time getting him back in the lineup. The only reason to get him back quickly would be if UNC is trying to avoid any early season losses - and I think Ol' Roy is likely to be very much focused on March. He's not going to risk exacerbating his star's injury just to avoid taking a loss or two in November. UNC will take it's time with Hanstravel, and he'll be perfectly healthy come the ACC season.

Diddy
11-06-2008, 12:29 PM
This year features 5 UNC players with an eye on the pros. Hans, Green, and Ginyard are Srs, and Ellington and Lawson probably have one foot out the door.

With a healthy Hans, UNC's game plan was simple. Throw it to Hans and let him go to work. It is darn effective.

Now he is hurt, and the reality is that UNC can still win most of its games. Only the Duke, Wake and Miami games get iffy. In Hans's abscence, a new star, or stars WILL emerge. Guys will be having career all-acc type years, and it is almost guaranteed that those stars will be some of the kids who are angling for the pros. Even the kids not starring will be playing big roles, especially the frosh bigs. Apart from Hans, and maybe Thompson, the rest of that team is built to run and gun.

When Hans returns, all that changes. Roy will want slow down a little to feed Hans the ball in the half court. Those guys that were looking like superstars while Hans was getting his medicine on will go back to being sidekicks, or worse. How will that sit? Especially since the players most likely to thrive without Hans, Lawson and Ellington, will have their hands on the ball a lot of the time. Roy has shown a propensity to lose control of his teams (see last year's urine poor defensive performance, and the G-Town Collapse the prior year).

With Hans healthy from Day 1, everyone knew and accepted their role (even if they weren't completely stoked about it). But that was before anyone else had a taste of stardom or being the go-to-guy. Now, others will have a chance to bask in the spotlight, and people aren't always eager to just give that up. And even if they do ultimately cede the spotlight, lingering resentments can simmer until they explode.

Hans's injury could be good. Or it could destroy what was already bound to be a shakey team chemistry.

Also, I still don't see a defensive presence or mentality in Loser Blue, with or without Hans. I have to think that Hans' first serious injury will make him even more gunshy on the defensive end.

miramar
11-06-2008, 12:38 PM
If you are going to get an injury, it should be early in the season, provided that you have people who can step up and develop more than they would have otherwise, and of course assuming that the player comes back 100%.

So this could definitely help UNC, and it certainly would not be the first time it's happened.

Wander
11-06-2008, 12:56 PM
I've always had a hard time believing the "injury will help us in the long run" mindset. If it was truly best for the team to have your star player sit and the backups gain experience for full games, why don't any coaches do it when their team is healthy?

I think it's just neutral. It's not likely, but also not unthinkable, that Patrick Patterson takes advantage of an absent Hansbrough to upset UNC early in the season.

sagegrouse
11-06-2008, 01:43 PM
Been thinking about Tyler being out for a few weeks for UNC. More I think about it the more I think its actually very good for UNC, as (a) it allows Ed Davis and Tyler Zeller to get more minutes earlier and be ready for prime time later on and (b) it forces Deon Thompson to step it u a bit more, especially in Alex Stepheson's absence.

Thoughts from Duke land??

Finally we have at least one useful application for cultural studies: there is no such thing as an objective opinion from a Duke fan when it comes to UNC basketball (or FWIW Duke basketball).

Howsomever, when Duke has had these injury problems in the past (Boozer, Brand -- e.g.), I thought it was good for the team to have to rely on new and untested talent (as long as Elton and Carlos returned for the post-season). It ain't necessarily the time on the floor for the new players; it's the pressure to perform as part of the first team.

My two cents. Change accepted cheerfully.

sagegrouse

dukelifer
11-06-2008, 01:52 PM
Been thinking about Tyler being out for a few weeks for UNC. More I think about it the more I think its actually very good for UNC, as (a) it allows Ed Davis and Tyler Zeller to get more minutes earlier and be ready for prime time later on and (b) it forces Deon Thompson to step it u a bit more, especially in Alex Stepheson's absence.

Thoughts from Duke land??

If it is two weeks or two months it probably won't hurt UNC much. They are deep and have some good young talent that would greatly benefit from this time to develop in games. If I were a UNC fan, and I am not, I would be worried that he might come back too soon (perhaps to break JJ's record) and another worse injury would result- or even worse that he plays in pain and doesn't let anyone know and he is out of the tourney. For UNC to win it all, he needs to be playing in the big dance and at a high level. So in that sense, UNC fans will be nervous for a very long time this season.

Duke09
11-06-2008, 02:04 PM
Does anyone know how many games he'll be out? The longer he doesn't play, the more likely JJ's ACC scoring record stands the chance of surviving. Does anyone want to run the math and see how many games he'd need to sit out for JJ to realistically have a chance at keeping his title, assuming Hanstravel does what he did last year?

sagegrouse
11-06-2008, 02:05 PM
If it is two weeks or two months it probably won't hurt UNC much. They are deep and have some good young talent that would greatly benefit from this time to develop in games. If I were a UNC fan, and I am not, I would be worried that he might come back too soon (perhaps to break JJ's record) and another worse injury would result- or even worse that he plays in pain and doesn't let anyone know and he is out of the tourney. For UNC to win it all, he needs to be playing in the big dance and at a high level. So in that sense, UNC fans will be nervous for a very long time this season.

I think dukelifer has a good point. The risks to Hansbrough are too early a return or inadequate conditioning resulting in a different injury.

sagegrouse

bjornolf
11-12-2008, 08:27 AM
I didn't see anybody else posting this, but Tyler Hansborough is out indefinitely with a "stress reaction" in his shin. They say it could be a precursor to a stress fracture. I saw it on the main page of DBR, but no discussion here. I'm no doctor, and while I've had several leg injuries in my sports career, if you can call it that, I've never had this one. How serious is it? How long will he probably be out? What are the chances he gets the stress fracture? How long would he be out with that? How much does this affect UNC?

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/unc/mens_basketball/story/1276013.html

AtlDuke72
11-12-2008, 08:33 AM
I didn't see anybody else posting this, but Tyler Hansborough is out indefinitely with a "stress reaction" in his shin. They say it could be a precursor to a stress fracture. I saw it on the main page of DBR, but no discussion here. I'm no doctor, and while I've had several leg injuries in my sports career, if you can call it that, I've never had this one. How serious is it? How long will he probably be out? What are the chances he gets the stress fracture? How long would he be out with that? How much does this affect UNC?

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/unc/mens_basketball/story/1276013.html

The reports have all been that he will be back soon. I hope so. The guy is obviously a fantastic player and they will be much better if he is healthy.

wilson
11-12-2008, 08:36 AM
I have a couple of good friends with contacts very close to the UNC program, and both of them have told me that the injury is worse than is being let on, that Hans could miss considerably more time than publicly indicated, and that the injury also could potentially nag. I hate to go all "I know a guy who knows a guy," but, well, I do. I'll of course fully believe the above information only if/when it comes to pass, but right now, I have no reason to disbelieve what multiple people have told me, either.

hurleyfor3
11-12-2008, 08:38 AM
I have a couple of good friends with contacts very close to the UNC program, and both of them have told me that the injury is worse than is being let on, that Hans could miss considerably more time than publicly indicated, and that the injury also could potentially nag. I hate to go all "I know a guy who knows a guy," but, well, I do. I'll of course fully believe the above information only if/when it comes to pass, but right now, I have no reason to disbelieve what multiple people have told me, either.

Yeah, but remember, no one in basketball works harder than Tyler. No one. Ever.

riverside6
11-12-2008, 08:45 AM
I have a couple of good friends with contacts very close to the UNC program, and both of them have told me that the injury is worse than is being let on, that Hans could miss considerably more time than publicly indicated, and that the injury also could potentially nag. I hate to go all "I know a guy who knows a guy," but, well, I do. I'll of course fully believe the above information only if/when it comes to pass, but right now, I have no reason to disbelieve what multiple people have told me, either.

This came out a few weeks ago, so not exactly new news. I'll add what I said then which is that Michigan State's Raymar Morgan missed 5 weeks with the injury in 2006-07. We are currently 2 weeks in since the injury was reported, so the Heels are likely looking at the week of Dec 1st for return. Ironically, the Heels play Michigan State (http://www.scacchoops.com/Schedule.asp?sTeam=NC) on Dec 3rd.

billybreen
11-12-2008, 08:50 AM
What are the odds doctors determine it will nag so Hans decides to take a redshirt?

roywhite
11-12-2008, 09:02 AM
What are the odds doctors determine it will nag so Hans decides to take a redshirt?

Tyler himself is reported to have said, "I'd like to leave my mark on ACC and college basketball in general by doing something really unique---I want to be named either a preseason or postseason All-America in 5 consecutive years" :rolleyes:

billybreen
11-12-2008, 09:02 AM
Tyler himself is reported to have said, "I'd like to leave my mark on ACC and college basketball in general by doing something really unique---I want to be named either a preseason or postseason All-America in 5 consecutive years" :rolleyes:

That's pretty awesome, actually.

bjornolf
11-12-2008, 09:26 AM
That's why I couldn't find it in my search...I mispelled his name. I had an extra "o". Oops, sorry. :o

Huh?
11-12-2008, 09:37 AM
Yeah, but remember, no one in basketball works harder than Tyler. No one. Ever.

Yeah, but that is the problem with this injury, you don't "work" to get healthy, you wait.

Lord Ash
11-12-2008, 10:18 AM
But what if you work, like, REALLY really hard at waiting? Because no one works harder than Tyler.

ncexnyc
11-12-2008, 10:57 AM
Whle Ol'Roy would never come out and say it, an early season loss would be good for the Heels, as it would remove any talk of going undefeated, along with the pressure that goes with it.

I can't see how the young big men UNC has won't benifit from crunchtime game situations.

Huh?
11-12-2008, 10:58 AM
But what if you work, like, REALLY really hard at waiting? Because no one works harder than Tyler.

HAHA, very nice.

JasonEvans
11-12-2008, 11:37 AM
I have a couple of good friends with contacts very close to the UNC program, and both of them have told me that the injury is worse than is being let on, that Hans could miss considerably more time than publicly indicated, and that the injury also could potentially nag. I hate to go all "I know a guy who knows a guy," but, well, I do. I'll of course fully believe the above information only if/when it comes to pass, but right now, I have no reason to disbelieve what multiple people have told me, either.

JJ's career scoring record likes the information you have provided.

As for the notion that Hasbro might take a redshirt, I'd rate the offs of that at close to zero. He has put off the NBA for a while and likely does not want to wait much longer. I also suspect that he specifically came back to try to win a national title. Unless Lawson and Ellington also agreed to come back for their senior seasons then that national title is going to be quite a bit more of a longshot next year. Green cannot come back as he is already a senior.

So, I'd think the odds are quite good that we will see Hasbro walking all over the court in a few weeks.

--Jason "I also agree that an early-season loss would be just fine with Roy" Evans

DukieInKansas
11-12-2008, 11:41 AM
Whle Ol'Roy would never come out and say it, an early season loss would be good for the Heels, as it would remove any talk of going undefeated, along with the pressure that goes with it.

I can't see how the young big men UNC has won't benifit from crunchtime game situations.

I'd prefer a late season loss for them - somewhere in the last half of March. :D

77devil
11-12-2008, 12:09 PM
He has put off the NBA for a while and likely does not want to wait much longer.
--Jason "I also agree that an early-season loss would be just fine with Roy" Evans

Not to mention that he turns 24 next year. Time to move on.

JasonEvans
11-12-2008, 12:49 PM
Not to mention that he turns 24 next year. Time to move on.

He's older than Atlanta Hawks forward Josh Smith who is in his 5th NBA season and just signed a 5-year, $58 million deal.

It is time for Hasbro to move on.

--Jason "in fairness, at age 24, Hasbro is still 19 years younger than Greg Oden" Evans

billybreen
11-12-2008, 12:57 PM
He's older than Atlanta Hawks forward Josh Smith who is in his 5th NBA season and just signed a 5-year, $58 million deal.

It is time for Hasbro to move on.

I don't know man, there's a lot of Chris Weinke in that kid.

roywhite
11-12-2008, 01:03 PM
--Jason "in fairness, at age 24, Hasbro is still 19 years younger than Greg Oden" Evans

Greg Oden says "ouch". Of course, he's been saying that a lot over the past few years as the injuries pile up. Maybe his bones, joints, tendons, etc. are 45-50 years old, similar to his facial appearance?

billybreen
11-12-2008, 01:06 PM
Greg Oden says "ouch". Of course, he's been saying that a lot over the past few years as the injuries pile up. Maybe his bones, joints, tendons, etc. are 45-50 years old, similar to his facial appearance?

I feel so bad for that old dude.

jaytoc
11-12-2008, 01:11 PM
I'd prefer a late season loss for them - somewhere in the last half of March. :D

I'd prefer three consecutive losses - their last regular season game, and the two games that follow. Sweet!

DukieInKansas
11-12-2008, 02:31 PM
I'd prefer three consecutive losses - their last regular season game, and the two games that follow. Sweet!

Even better - I can go with that!

Carlos
11-12-2008, 03:38 PM
In the world of Tar Heel injury reports, "out indefinitely" means "will start the next game."

MChambers
11-12-2008, 03:40 PM
In the world of Tar Heel injury reports, "out indefinitely" means "will start the next game."

You left out "after rising from his deathbed,"

roywhite
11-12-2008, 03:52 PM
You left out "after rising from his deathbed,"

That goes back at least as far as the reign of El Deano. We often heard in great detail about Phil Ford's aches and pains, but Ford invariably managed to suit up and play, quite well.

DukieBoy
12-07-2008, 01:22 PM
Found a website (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/blog/the_dagger/post/Tyler-Hansbrough-unanimously-selected-All-Everyt?urn=ncaab,119327) that announced Tyler Hansbrough's new award(s) he has received :)

pamtar
12-07-2008, 02:12 PM
Hilarious! Thanks for the laugh. :D

Devilsfan
12-07-2008, 02:31 PM
I think AAA and Milage Plus should reward him for all the travelling he has done in such a short period of time at CH.

Lavabe
12-07-2008, 02:35 PM
Alternate to the US Diving Team.

weezie
12-08-2008, 08:23 PM
Plus, he won the fabulous disco-glitter ball "Dancing w/the Stars" trophy for his cha-cha-cha.
And his bangs.

Diddy
12-08-2008, 08:32 PM
I hope these jokes are as funny come early April.

DukieBoy
12-08-2008, 08:57 PM
and was also named captain of BOTH Chinese gymnastic teams

Devilsfan
12-08-2008, 09:09 PM
Didn't the Chinese ask him if he would consider teaching platform diving to its youth.

Cicero
12-08-2008, 10:21 PM
and was also named captain of BOTH Chinese gymnastic teams

...fortunately, there were no questions about his age.

Biscuit
12-18-2008, 11:09 AM
... the Jacobs piece seems like a bit of a "hack job."

(ouch. that was a horrible pun).

Anyway, here are a couple of the problems in my humble opinion:

1. When considering foul rates, you should use fouls per minute played, not fouls per game, for obvious reasons. Don't know if this changes things, because I think most of these players average around 30 minutes a game. But if you're doing stats, you should do them right.

2. Counting the number of times a player fouls out is largely irrelevant if you intend to suggest (as this piece seems to) that a player receives favorable treatment. Fouling out is influenced by any number of other factors, including the player's ability to alter his style of play and remain effective, the team's depth at the position, and the number of "blowout" games in which the team participates. All of these factors weigh heavily against Hansbrough fouling out a lot. Fouls, not foul-outs, is the relevant stat.

3. You can't combine hard statistical analysis with subjective evaluation (i.e. Battier's style of play compared with Hansbrough's). It undermines the statistical analysis. Plus it's largely nullified by this:

4. I would bet that among all of the players listed, Hansbrough has the least number of blocked shots, by far. Blocked shot attempts are a huge factor- it is tacitly acknowledged in the piece with respect to Battier, but not mentioned with respect to Hansbrough. Hansbrough simply doesn't play defense that way, and this is probably a conscious decision made in large part to avoid getting into foul trouble.

Even if it's not a conscious decision, it totally changes the analysis. Attempting to block shots, along with attempting to take charges, are the two biggest ways that players receive fouls on the defensive end. I think if you considered shot block attempts and charge attempts and then compare it to fouls, you'd find that Hansbrough gets far less "favorable" treatment than some others on the list. Not that such an analysis would be fair or complete ... which is kind of my point in posting this rebuttal in the first place.

gw67
12-18-2008, 11:33 AM
Biscuit - I basically agree with your post. Besides, I was inundated for a couple of years by friends complaining about Shane's "favorable treatment" by the refs (while he was taking charges, blocking shots, rebounding). I know the folks on this site can't stand Hansbrough but he's only going to be around for a few more months.

gw67

JStuart
12-18-2008, 11:55 AM
Last year, there was a poster who put up a couple of special editions on officiating, as he was a former ref, and promised to talk about how officials viewed Hansbrough's footwork and lack of fouling. I don't remember if he ever did write that particular chapter.
I personally cannot remember any prominent ACC player who appears, repeat, appears to have been as well-protected as a freshman and sophomore as Hans. But then, that's my perception.

Wander
12-18-2008, 12:04 PM
Fouls per possession is probably the best to use.

Biscuit
12-18-2008, 12:18 PM
Last year, there was a poster who put up a couple of special editions on officiating, as he was a former ref, and promised to talk about how officials viewed Hansbrough's footwork and lack of fouling. I don't remember if he ever did write that particular chapter.
I personally cannot remember any prominent ACC player who appears, repeat, appears to have been as well-protected as a freshman and sophomore as Hans. But then, that's my perception.

I think that your perception may perhaps be colored by your affiliation. Hansbrough's game seems perfectly designed to avoid foul trouble, at least on the defensive end. He doesn't try to block shots. He has the benefit of playing on a team with good on-the-ball defenders, so he rarely has to leave his man to cut off penetration-- without looking, I would bet that UNC's opponents attempt more threes than any other ACC team, and that it's probably not even close. And he always turns and boxes out as soon as a ball is in the air-- a by-product of his limited shotblocking efforts, so he isn't as vulnerable to over the back calls.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but I think perhaps you're confusing the broader issue about the refs and Hansbrough, one that shows up in his trips to the line on the offensive end and the relative lack of travel calls against him, with the refs "protecting" him from foul trouble. Even with my light blue glasses on, I can see that Tyler gets away with a travel or two, and gets a LOT of trips to the line. But I don't see how you can think he is committing fouls that the refs are ignoring.

rockymtn devil
12-18-2008, 12:27 PM
I think that your perception may perhaps be colored by your affiliation. Hansbrough's game seems perfectly designed to avoid foul trouble, at least on the defensive end. He doesn't try to block shots. He has the benefit of playing on a team with good on-the-ball defenders, so he rarely has to leave his man to cut off penetration-- without looking, I would bet that UNC's opponents attempt more threes than any other ACC team, and that it's probably not even close. And he always turns and boxes out as soon as a ball is in the air-- a by-product of his limited shotblocking efforts, so he isn't as vulnerable to over the back calls.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but I think perhaps you're confusing the broader issue about the refs and Hansbrough, one that shows up in his trips to the line on the offensive end and the relative lack of travel calls against him, with the refs "protecting" him from foul trouble. Even with my light blue glasses on, I can see that Tyler gets away with a travel or two, and gets a LOT of trips to the line. But I don't see how you can think he is committing fouls that the refs are ignoring.

Perhaps it's the shade of my glasses, but TH is given a lot of freedom to get rebounds in whatever way he wants. A TH box-out tends to include a little more grabbing and moving opponents than I think anyone else is afforded. He seems to have been given carte blanche to use his hands in whatever way necessary to get the rebound. To his credit, he takes advantage of that and is very effective at knowing what he can and cannot do (in all facets of the game).

pfrduke
12-18-2008, 12:44 PM
without looking, I would bet that UNC's opponents attempt more threes than any other ACC team, and that it's probably not even close.

Not quite. This year thus far, UNC is third in the ACC in this regard - Wake Forest's opponents and FSU's opponents have taken a greater percentage of their shots from behind the arc than UNC's (UNC may have more 3fg against in raw terms, but that would only be because their pace is higher). UNC is in roughly the top 20% nationally in this category.

Last season, opponents of Virginia, Wake Forest, Georgia Tech, and FSU attempted a greater percentage of their shots from three than UNC's opponents. UNC was around the 50th percentile in this category last year.

Biscuit
12-18-2008, 12:53 PM
Not quite. This year thus far, UNC is third in the ACC in this regard - Wake Forest's opponents and FSU's opponents have taken a greater percentage of their shots from behind the arc than UNC's (UNC may have more 3fg against in raw terms, but that would only be because their pace is higher). UNC is in roughly the top 20% nationally in this category.

Last season, opponents of Virginia, Wake Forest, Georgia Tech, and FSU attempted a greater percentage of their shots from three than UNC's opponents. UNC was around the 50th percentile in this category last year.

Well whaddya know? Comment withdrawn, although the larger point (Hansbrough rarely finds himself sliding over to cut off penetration) remains.

If you don't mind my asking- where did you go for that info? I halfheartedly googled around for a minute or three before giving up.

Highlander
12-18-2008, 01:27 PM
... the Jacobs piece seems like a bit of a "hack job."

(ouch. that was a horrible pun).

Anyway, here are a couple of the problems in my humble opinion:

1. When considering foul rates, you should use fouls per minute played, not fouls per game, for obvious reasons. Don't know if this changes things, because I think most of these players average around 30 minutes a game. But if you're doing stats, you should do them right.

2. Counting the number of times a player fouls out is largely irrelevant if you intend to suggest (as this piece seems to) that a player receives favorable treatment. Fouling out is influenced by any number of other factors, including the player's ability to alter his style of play and remain effective, the team's depth at the position, and the number of "blowout" games in which the team participates. All of these factors weigh heavily against Hansbrough fouling out a lot. Fouls, not foul-outs, is the relevant stat.

3. You can't combine hard statistical analysis with subjective evaluation (i.e. Battier's style of play compared with Hansbrough's). It undermines the statistical analysis. Plus it's largely nullified by this:

4. I would bet that among all of the players listed, Hansbrough has the least number of blocked shots, by far. Blocked shot attempts are a huge factor- it is tacitly acknowledged in the piece with respect to Battier, but not mentioned with respect to Hansbrough. Hansbrough simply doesn't play defense that way, and this is probably a conscious decision made in large part to avoid getting into foul trouble.

Even if it's not a conscious decision, it totally changes the analysis. Attempting to block shots, along with attempting to take charges, are the two biggest ways that players receive fouls on the defensive end. I think if you considered shot block attempts and charge attempts and then compare it to fouls, you'd find that Hansbrough gets far less "favorable" treatment than some others on the list. Not that such an analysis would be fair or complete ... which is kind of my point in posting this rebuttal in the first place.

1) Agree in principle, but given the other players on this list I doubt it makes a noticeable difference in the statistics, as all of those players put in 30+ minutes a game with regularity.

2) I think his point was that Hansbrough isn't a finesse player, he's a banger. Given that you don't dispute that point, the fact that Hansbrough is so physical in his play and rarely gets called for fouls seems unusual. However, Jacobs shows that Hansbrough's fouls/game are not noticeably different than other noteable "bangers" like Brand, Jamison, and Duncan in their prime. I agree that the factors you list certainly impact how often a player does or does not foul out, and many work in Tyler's favor.

3) Stats are subjective, pure and simple. I am sure you would agree that viewing the fouls/game stats only on non-block, non-charge attempts in non-blowout games where players played over 30 mpg would be equally subjective. Which is essentially the point you made. No stats tell the whole story.

Regardless of the mitigating circumstances, a guy who has played down low in the ACC for 3+ years at around 30mpg and has only fouled out twice in 276 games is a rather remarkable stat, in and of itself. It tells me that Tyler doesn't really gamble much on defense (which you agree with), and has learned how to play effectively on offenese without fouling. I don't think it's indicative of any conspiracy theory, but it is a statistical anomaly.

sagegrouse
12-18-2008, 01:27 PM
Last year, there was a poster who put up a couple of special editions on officiating, as he was a former ref, and promised to talk about how officials viewed Hansbrough's footwork and lack of fouling. I don't remember if he ever did write that particular chapter.
I personally cannot remember any prominent ACC player who appears, repeat, appears to have been as well-protected as a freshman and sophomore as Hans. But then, that's my perception.

I usually just chuckle over the comments on the Board re Hansbrough. He doesn't accumulate fouls, but then he is a really good player going 100% all the time. I am jealous that he plays for the Heels.

Then against Oral Roberts, there were two plays that were totally ridiculous. In one he took a called charge even though he was obviously still sliding sideways. I usually have a hard time judging on TV -- not on this play.

The other play was on offense. He missed one of his jump hooks and then rushed the ORU player with the rebound and grabbed the ball, knocking the rebounder to the ground. Even the announcers said that it was almost always a foul when the shooter knocks the rebounder to the floor.

Do you think the ACC office looks at these plays?

sagegrouse

Biscuit
12-18-2008, 01:42 PM
Regardless of the mitigating circumstances, a guy who has played down low in the ACC for 3+ years at around 30mpg and has only fouled out twice in 276 games is a rather remarkable stat, in and of itself. It tells me that Tyler doesn't really gamble much on defense (which you agree with), and has learned how to play effectively on offenese without fouling. I don't think it's indicative of any conspiracy theory, but it is a statistical anomaly.

Sounds like we're largely in agreement, but I think the foul-out anomaly is easily explained. My larger point is that foul-out numbers are a silly statistic to use to demonstrate anything beyond foul-outs, because they are so easily shaped by other things like team depth at a position, number of blowouts, style of play, team strategy, etc. The tone of the piece seemed to be suggested something else, since it made no effort to compliment Hansbrough or Roy Williams on this small number.

Regarding the comments of poster just above this post- I don't recall the rebounding play in the ORU game, but I remember the play where Hansbrough drew a charge while apparently moving. I totally agree that it was a bad call, but I think this is a trend that is going on throughout college basketball. You see a lot more charges called when defenders haven't established position and/or have jumped in front of moving players for that sole purpose. It's gotten out of control, frankly. I think you just happened to notice this one in particular because of the person taking the charge.

jv001
12-18-2008, 01:45 PM
I look at things through Royal Blue glasses but I don't have a problem calling a spade a spade. Tyler shuffles his feet lots of time to gather himself before going up for a shot around the basket. The refs never call it. Tyler pushes just as much as the next inside player. He just never gets called for it. Now I have no problem in admitting that Elton Brand dropped his shoulder and moved the defender back many times and it was not called. There were several times that Shane flopped when taking a charge and I'm sure the refs missed some block/charge calls. But to say that Hans does not get special treatment is just not so. Go Duke!

rockymtn devil
12-18-2008, 02:08 PM
The other play was on offense. He missed one of his jump hooks and then rushed the ORU player with the rebound and grabbed the ball, knocking the rebounder to the ground. Even the announcers said that it was almost always a foul when the shooter knocks the rebounder to the floor.

Agree and this was an example of the larger point I was making in my earlier post. TH is allowed to do what he wants, when he wants, in order to get a board. Good for him for knowing that and utilizing it. Bad for the officials for letting it get to this point.

pfrduke
12-18-2008, 02:20 PM
Well whaddya know? Comment withdrawn, although the larger point (Hansbrough rarely finds himself sliding over to cut off penetration) remains.

If you don't mind my asking- where did you go for that info? I halfheartedly googled around for a minute or three before giving up.

Pomeroy. It's a very handy resource. Main link is here (http://kenpom.com/rate.php), and the relevant pages are here (this year) (http://kenpom.com/tmleaders.php?c=OppF3GRate) and here (last year) (http://kenpom.com/tmleaders.php?c=OppF3GRate&y=2008).

Biscuit
12-18-2008, 02:21 PM
I look at things through Royal Blue glasses but I don't have a problem calling a spade a spade. Tyler shuffles his feet lots of time to gather himself before going up for a shot around the basket. The refs never call it. Tyler pushes just as much as the next inside player. He just never gets called for it. Now I have no problem in admitting that Elton Brand dropped his shoulder and moved the defender back many times and it was not called. There were several times that Shane flopped when taking a charge and I'm sure the refs missed some block/charge calls. But to say that Hans does not get special treatment is just not so. Go Duke!

Which is why I never said that. All star players get the benefit of the doubt, in all sports. But Tyler doesn't get away with an inordinate number of calls when compared to the other stars listed in the Jacobs piece, especially when you consider that Tyler doesn't attempt to block shots very often. I thought it was a little unfair to comment that Battier's numbers might be deflated because of his "grace" and tendency to play on the perimeter, but to ignore a very basic element of Tyler's game that clearly has a big impact on how often he commits fouls. I also thought it was unfair to talk about how infrequently he fouls out while ignoring the many obvious reasons that I listed in previous posts as to why that might be the case.

I have no quarrel with your comments on the traveling. And I'm not trying to challenge your basic perceptions on Tyler. I know that would be a losing battle. I'm challenging the validity/value of one particular piece of writing.

slower
12-22-2008, 08:29 AM
Didn't know about his brother's paralysis. Crap - I might actually start liking this guy before it's all said and done (yes, I know - blasphemy!!).

Here's the link:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?section=magazine&id=3770906

Jfrosh
12-22-2008, 11:08 AM
Didn't know about his brother's paralysis. Crap - I might actually start liking this guy before it's all said and done (yes, I know - blasphemy!!).

Here's the link:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?section=magazine&id=3770906

No, not blasphemy. You don't have to hate the player, you just have to hate the team. One of the few times I'd agree with Roy: if Tyler wore a darker shade of blue he would probably be one of my all time favorite players. A taller, stronger, more athletic Wojo.

jv001
12-22-2008, 01:38 PM
Yeh I would take him on my team any day of the week. I don't hate any of the tarheels, but I surely don't like most to their fans. You know the ones that post using language only satan likes(lack of education & morals). Hans is a terrific player with great work ethiic. And as for the refs calls, he does not make the calls and I'm certainly not going to complain when Duke gets the benefit of the whistle. So play on Hans and Go Duke!

Kimist
12-22-2008, 08:00 PM
Yeh I would take him on my team any day of the week. I don't hate any of the tarheels, but I surely don't like most to their fans. You know the ones that post using language only satan likes(lack of education & morals). Hans is a terrific player with great work ethic. And as for the refs calls, he does not make the calls and I'm certainly not going to complain when Duke gets the benefit of the whistle. So play on Hans and Go Duke!

Agreed -

Several years ago I remember reading an extensive article in the Raleigh N&O about a new "kid" who was coming to play at unc. I was terribly impressed at that time by his family background, work ethic....and he seemed to be able to play basketball pretty well also.

I do have a problem with some of the calls he gets (fouls) or the ones he doesn't (ME travel??) but that is perhaps subjective and/or filtered through my darker blue perspective on things. I did note some discussion (Xavier game) along the lines of a shooter can only go vertical without incurring a foul, and "that rule is not well enforced." AMEN to that! (I'm sure the coaches/officials on these boards can explain it a bit better than I can.)

Yes, it may be blasphemy but I do admire Psycho's drive and determination. Unlike many/most of his teammates, the inherent caro-whining gene does not seem dominant with him.

This observation in no way changes my firm 9F 9F 9F viewpoint, but as a fan of basketball my statements stand. I have far more respect for (most of) the unc players than I do for a large number of their general trash-talking, no class "fans"!!

k

davekay1971
12-22-2008, 11:13 PM
I hate everything about him on the court.

Sorry to be the prickly pear in this basket of warm fuzzies.

Of course we don't all hate Hansbrough...none of us (I'm assuming) knows the guy personally. You can't hate someone without knowing them. So, I don't hate Tyler Hansbrough...I don't know him well enough to hate him.

Here's what I hate about him:

1) The shade of blue he wears.
2) His flops
3) His stupid nickname...one of the all-time goofiest...of all time.
4) His travels
5) The...er...favors...the media performs for him
6) His over-the-backs
7) That goofy fit he does when he does something good
8) His atrocious jump-shot form
9) The wierd way he runs
10) About 10 foul shots per game he didn't deserve to take
11) That Phil Ford scored less points than him
12) The constipated look on his face when he is feeling his Psychosity peaking
13) His hacks
14) The pool of saliva that has emerged from Tarhole fans that is now flooding the beautiful landscape of North Carolina
15) That McRoberts never looked at him and said "Jeez, I've got 10 times that guys talent...maybe I should try putting in that kind of effort"
16) The sissy slap he aimed at Brandon Costner...while running away
17) Bobby Frazor
18) That I can't watch the first 10 minutes of Duke pulverizing Xavier without 4 (count 'em...FOUR) Hansbrough graphics being splashed up by CBS
19) That I have to hear about this guy for 4 more months (hopefully just 3...but they are a really, really good team)
20) Did I mention the shade of blue he wears?

Is all of that his fault? Nope. Do I still hate the sight of him on the court? Absolutely.

GTHC...and take Beaker with you.

dukemsu
12-23-2008, 12:40 AM
I agree with Davekay.

I hate everything about Hans on the floor. But, if I had to boil it down to one thing, it's the spell he has cast over officials. Not on walks, but on fouls. Like other Chosen Ones prior (Okafor, May, and Love come to mind quickest), he is allowed to simply slam into people and not get fouls called, or draw the foul on the poor sap assigned to him, who is often simply standing there with both hands straight in the air.

What I hate even worse is the air of entitlement he's starting to show, the increduility he, his teammates, the dancing teammate, and his aw-shucks coach show the one time per game the officials actually call him for a foul.

I still wish that UCLA would have drawn Carolina to see how the officials would have called the Love/Hans collisions. They probably would have looked at each other and thrown their hands up.

The only thing I will like about Hans is when he's played his last game and I can watch NBA players spike his shots back off his head like Kansas did last year. I can appreciate the talent, the work, and the accomplishments, but please don't ask me to like him on the floor. Might be the greatest kid of all time off the floor, sure. Good for him if that's true.

dukemsu

brevity
12-23-2008, 02:38 AM
Like other Chosen Ones prior (Okafor, May, and Love come to mind quickest), he is allowed to simply slam into people and not get fouls called, or draw the foul on the poor sap assigned to him, who is often simply standing there with both hands straight in the air.

I'm glad someone mentioned Sean May. To me, the line "Tyler Hansbrough has a great work ethic" is today's version of "Sean May has great hands." It's what everyone says because they heard someone else say it and they think that's what they're supposed to say, and they really have nothing else to add. It's like if you ask Guy 1 about casual acquaintance Guy 2, and the response is "Yeah, he's a good guy." It's positive filler, I guess, but still filler.

I suppose the baby blue uniform is added incentive, but I'd like to think I would feel an equal dislike for Hansbrough if he played for, say, Missouri. And were he in a Duke uniform, I'd probably stay really quiet. My annoyance with his floor presence would be offset with a mild appreciation for a rebound-first mentality.

elvis14
12-23-2008, 03:33 PM
No, not blasphemy. You don't have to hate the player, you just have to hate the team.

I don't have to hate the player, but I do!


Yeh I would take him on my team any day of the week. I don't hate any of the tarheels,

I don't want him, hate it when people say I'd love him if he was at Duke and I hate all of the tarheels and most of their fans (or at least their fans when it comes to hoops). Don't even get me started on Danny Green! According to their fans they have already won this years ACC regular season and tournament, NCAA tournament, went undefeated and are the best team ever! I had a UNC fan say to me Saturday that JonS couldn't gaurd anyone!! I just stopped talking hoops at that time!


I hate everything about him on the court.

Now that's more like it!


I agree with Davekay.
I hate everything about Hans on the floor. But, if I had to boil it down to one thing, it's the spell he has cast over officials.

The truth is spoken by davekay and dukemsu. You Hanstravel supporters should really be ashamed of yourself. Also thanks to the mods for consolidating all the Hansblahblah posts in one thread so they can be more easily ignored. Want to have some fun, next time you watch a TarHole game, count how many times Hansohmynose gets the benefit of a bad call, a questionable call, pretty much anything that's not obvious. It's unreal.

On a positive note, I love our Duke players and team more than I dislike all thinkgs UNC.

Go Duke, GTHC GTHTH GTHDG GTHRW....

Kimist
12-23-2008, 08:19 PM
The swelling has now gone down from my recent pre-frontal lobotomy, I have re-ordered some even darker blue eyeglasses from Lenscrafters, and recently I have been caressing my cherished (blue!!!) piece of the old Cameron floor for untold hours on end. I had even planned an extra confession with a priest, until I remembered I am not Catholic.

So, my observations in that new light are now:

HansTravelBlah is the devil incarnate, and is totally unworthy of any respect other than from the average intellectually-challenged tarhole.

(I do agree on the "don't the refs know the rules?" comments about his play.)

k

RelativeWays
12-23-2008, 08:40 PM
The travels are one thing (again its the refs job to call them) but I'll give Hansbeaker a couple of breaks on some things like:

1. The way he draws fouls. Hate to say it but a good big man excels at drawing contact and getting to the line. Not only is it free points, but it curbs the momentum to your teams favor. Sure some of the fouls he draws are dubious but lets face it. JJ made jumping into another player while shooting and getting the foul call an art form and people hated him for it. You know, stones n glass houses n such.

2. Flops. I'm a Duke fan and I'd be the biggest hypocrite to chastise Hansbeaker or any other player for using a defensive play that all Duke players are 9th degree black belts in (Zoubs is probably a yellow belt though). We use that play to our favor, if beaker can swing it every now and then well I guess turnabout is fair play. You know, pots, kettles, the color black.

This is the one thing a HATE about Kerlinah fans, they're quick to point out the flaws and faux pas in Duke or other teams and yet feign complete obliviousness to the fact that their own team is guilty (sometimes more so) of these supposed flaws they can't stand. Call them out on it and they become the paradigms of cognitive dissonance, they keep right on truckin' and ignore everything else. People like that really irrate me so I'm not going to be like that.

As far as Beaker goes, I'm glad this is his last year but I hope he does okay in the pros. There are a select few holes that I'd like to see bomb in the NBA and he's not really one of them.

moonpie23
12-23-2008, 08:55 PM
the absolute BEST thing i like about him? the look on his face in my avatar....


i will forever be a kansas sub-fan for the beat-down they put on the holes when everyone else was suiting them up for the title!!


gthc......gth, gth, gth....

Wheat/"/"/"
12-27-2008, 07:24 PM
You guys dissin' on Hansbrough are killing me. I know I wear the light shade glasses, but if he was a Duke player he would be challenging Laettner for the top spot in your hearts...admit it please and get past it :)

He is going to be a 4 time AA, and probably two time POY...Hello? He's better than an average player that just gets all the calls and travels all the time. That's just lame to keep repeating that tired response to every 22 point 8 rebound game when he's constantly double teamed.
He is as close to unstopable in the paint as there is these days in college hoops.

And for those who think he gets all the calls, I submit he gets hacked more than Shaq and could get even more foul shots most games. It's pretty simple why, he seals his post position and has the strength to hold his ground...good fundamental post play. He really frustrates defenders with that strength, along with his intensity. Guys are always climbing on him, and that often can be traced to their frustration and lack of patience to guard him.

Next UNC game you watch, try to be objective and count the times a foul "could" have been called on his defender that wasn't, and how many fouls that are called that are just stupid frustration fouls from the defender. You might be surprised.
He gets to the line a lot for a couple of more reasons too...He has the gift of sensing his defender's balance, or lack of, and when he does sense that, has the agressiveness to take it to the rim to draw the foul. That agressiveness causes him to get blocked pretty ugly once in a while, but he just keeps coming back at them, which really drives them nuts.
His hustle for loose balls also gets a couple of fouls called for him almost every game too, when he beats the player to a rebound and gets hit.

Next time you watch an NBA game, try to imagine this...TH on the floor when those guys are standing around in the 43rd game of the season or whatever. Anybody think TH will be lazy and not intense? He will be draining kick out 15 footers, and crashing boards all day, collecting more junk than Fred Sanford.
I'm (http://4tarpon.wordpress.com/) saying he will be a good player for somebody in the NBA for years and I will be shocked if he's not a lottery pick.

And just to make you guys happy, I bet he leads in sports center highlights of getting his ?>(&^% packed trying to force some of those post shots against NBA players that he gets away with in college. :)

Wheat/"/"/"

Indoor66
12-27-2008, 07:28 PM
You guys dissin' on Hansbrough are killing me. I know I wear the light shade glasses, but if he was a Duke player he would be challenging Laettner for the top spot in your hearts...admit it please and get past it :)

He is going to be a 4 time AA, and probably two time POY...Hello? He's better than an average player that just gets all the calls and travels all the time. That's just lame to keep repeating that tired response to every 22 point 8 rebound game when he's constantly double teamed.
He is as close to unstopable in the paint as there is these days in college hoops.

And for those who think he gets all the calls, I submit he gets hacked more than Shaq and could get even more foul shots most games. It's pretty simple why, he seals his post position and has the strength to hold his ground...good fundamental post play. He really frustrates defenders with that strength, along with his intensity. Guys are always climbing on him, and that often can be traced to their frustration and lack of patience to guard him.

Next UNC game you watch, try to be objective and count the times a foul "could" have been called on his defender that wasn't, and how many fouls that are called that are just stupid frustration fouls from the defender. You might be surprised.
He gets to the line a lot for a couple of more reasons too...He has the gift of sensing his defender's balance, or lack of, and when he does sense that, has the agressiveness to take it to the rim to draw the foul. That agressiveness causes him to get blocked pretty ugly once in a while, but he just keeps coming back at them, which really drives them nuts.
His hustle for loose balls also gets a couple of fouls called for him almost every game too, when he beats the player to a rebound and gets hit.

Next time you watch an NBA game, try to imagine this...TH on the floor when those guys are standing around in the 43rd game of the season or whatever. Anybody think TH will be lazy and not intense? He will be draining kick out 15 footers, and crashing boards all day, collecting more junk than Fred Sanford.
I'm (http://4tarpon.wordpress.com/) saying he will be a good player for somebody in the NBA for years and I will be shocked if he's not a lottery pick.

And just to make you guys happy, I bet he leads in sports center highlights of getting his ?>(&^% packed trying to force some of those post shots against NBA players that he gets away with in college. :)

Wheat/"/"/"

Awwwwwwwwww, go back to your fishing and quit raising valid points! :p:D

natedog4ever
12-27-2008, 07:55 PM
You guys dissin' on Hansbrough are killing me. I know I wear the light shade glasses, but if he was a Duke player he would be challenging Laettner for the top spot in your hearts...admit it please and get past it :)

Wheat/"/"/"

Actually, the Duke player that he garners comparison to is Redick. Both players compare favorably to the other greats from their schools and conference (in my opinion). At the end of the day though, you will be hard pressed to find opposing fans or many media types that would put them up there with the Laettners, Hills, Fords and Jordans. Maybe it's that the legend has grown for the others over time? Maybe Hansbrough can help himself by winning a title.

Anyway, ask a UNC fan if he would have liked to have JJ play for UNC. If you find any that can choke out the word "yes", hide them from the rest of the tarholes before they get strung up. Then lock this thread and get it off my favorite message board.

Oh yeah, and can we stop with all the "hardest working player" crap? It's unfair to all of the other kids. Hansbrough looks like he is the hardest working because that's just the way he looks. You know, in that "thank God I don't have to chew gum while I'm doing this" way.

Out.

Wheat/"/"/"
12-27-2008, 09:28 PM
natedogg...

Hell yes I put TH with Laettner, Hill, Ford and Jordan, even without a title. The guy is a four -4 -fore- time AA... and probable two-2-too- time POY... The UNC all time soring leader and maybe all time ACC scoring leader... how can you possibly rationalize NOT putting him in that class?

TH and Laettner are very similar to me...they both play/played hard and there was/is an irrational hatred of each by opposing fans. I really liked Laettner's play myself back in the day... Wojo too for that matter. For some reason Laettner's gamesmanship didn't bother me like he did to some Heel fans. They could both play for me.

As for Reddick, I respected his game, he over achieved in college and was a player, but I also thought he was a PUNK. Then again so was Mahktar so we're even :) Honestly can't say I would have wanted him, no matter how talented.

I can be objective....to prove it...
I'd trade you Ellington for Scheyer right now.

PS: Forgot to add that even tho true..I get tired of hearing how hard he works too.

Wheat/"/"/"

devildeac
12-27-2008, 10:14 PM
Plus, he won the fabulous disco-glitter ball "Dancing w/the Stars" trophy for his cha-cha-cha.
And his bangs.

According to our dance instructors, it is technically only a cha-cha and if you're trying to count/dance a cha-cha-cha, you aren't doing the dance correctly:eek::rolleyes:

Lavabe
12-27-2008, 10:23 PM
According to our dance instructors, it is technically only a cha-cha and if you're trying to count/dance a cha-cha-cha, you aren't doing the dance correctly:eek::rolleyes:

A cha-cha-cha is legal in the NBA. Only a cha-cha is legal in college.;)

devildeac
12-27-2008, 10:31 PM
natedogg...

Hell yes I put TH with Laettner, Hill, Ford and Jordan, even without a title. The guy is a four -4 -fore- time AA... and probable two-2-too- time POY... The UNC all time soring leader and maybe all time ACC scoring leader... how can you possibly rationalize NOT putting him in that class?

TH and Laettner are very similar to me...they both play/played hard and there was/is an irrational hatred of each by opposing fans. I really liked Laettner's play myself back in the day... Wojo too for that matter. For some reason Laettner's gamesmanship didn't bother me like he did to some Heel fans. They could both play for me.

As for Reddick, I respected his game, he over achieved in college and was a player, but I also thought he was a PUNK. Then again so was Mahktar so we're even :) Honestly can't say I would have wanted him, no matter how talented.

I can be objective....to prove it...
I'd trade you Ellington for Scheyer right now.

PS: Forgot to add that even tho true..I get tired of hearing how hard he works too.

Wheat/"/"/"

Holy cow-is that TWO posts from Wheat in the same day?

Good stuff, man and keep readin' and writin'. One major quibble-JJ may have appeared to be a punk to some but did you ever look at/listen to all the uncalled for profanity hurled his way and at his family? I don't think he ever danced on a scorers table or made the throat-slashing gesture or falsely accused another player of racial slurs. Mahktar was in a class(less) category just about by himself. No comparison there. Then there's the talent issue...

Wheat/"/"/"
12-27-2008, 10:51 PM
I am going to try and hang out more this season like the old days...

The fan hatred and nastyness is always uncalled for at any player. And it was bad with JJ.

When I used the P word on JJ, I should clarify it really is not meant to be as strong a statement as it probably sounded. It was meant in a playground sort of way. My apologies to anyone offended.

PS: The throat slash thing was classless and overblown, and some of JJ's actions after a dagger shot were in the same vein. The racial crap was the kicker proving Makhtar to be *&^$.

Wheat/"/"/"

devildeac
12-28-2008, 06:21 AM
I am going to try and hang out more this season like the old days...

The fan hatred and nastyness is always uncalled for at any player. And it was bad with JJ.

When I used the P word on JJ, I should clarify it really is not meant to be as strong a statement as it probably sounded. It was meant in a playground sort of way. My apologies to anyone offended.

PS: The throat slash thing was classless and overblown, and some of JJ's actions after a dagger shot were in the same vein. The racial crap was the kicker proving Makhtar to be *&^$.

Wheat/"/"/"

Understood. That's why we miss folks like you hangin' around the boards and painting another perspective for us.

throatybeard
12-28-2008, 03:29 PM
You guys dissin' on Hansbrough are killing me. I know I wear the light shade glasses, but if he was a Duke player he would be challenging Laettner for the top spot in your hearts...admit it please and get past it :)

My hypothesis is that Tyler emits a pheromone that causes our fans to act like premenstrual 4 year-olds.

Just FTR, Laettner isn't even in my top 10 favorites. I can't speak for anyone else.

Faison1
12-28-2008, 04:01 PM
My hypothesis is that Tyler emits a pheromone that causes our fans to act like premenstrual 4 year-olds.

Just FTR, Laettner isn't even in my top 10 favorites. I can't speak for anyone else.

Yes, personality wise, Laettner isn't one of my favorites either, but no one can honestly put Christian and Tyler in the same class. I have many higher ranking Duke favorites, but Laettner is one of the game's all time best. I respect and admire Tyler, and think he'd look great in a Duke uni, but I will never think he was one of UNC's top 5 all time bests.

A couple questions to ponder, the obvious one first:

1. In a game of one-on-one, who would you take, Laettner or T?
2. Do you think Tyler could dominate Shaq, much the same way Laettner did for two years in a row?
3. Has Tyler ever hit any meaningful game winning baskets, much less 2 HUGE NCAA tourney games (UConn, UK)?

Again, I am an admirer of T, but I don't think it's a fair comparison to Laettner.

Wheat/"/"/"
12-28-2008, 09:42 PM
You have to mention TH for his carreer accomplishments with all the greats in the ACC. You have to, whether you like it or not.

If you want to start debating talent that's another story. There are a lot of players throughout the years that were way more talented and there is no arguement for that.

I'll leave you with this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMcHb0M9w30&feature=related).... I didn't see it disscussed when I did a search of the site, so sorry if you've all already seen it.

If you don't like the big goofy kid after seeing this, you are strung too tight. Lighten up and enjoy the games and remember it's just a game with a ball and these kids are still in school, where I bet we would all like to be.

Wheat/"/"/"

PS: That turnaround spot up J was looking pretty money tonight, again...he'll get that shot off in the NBA. It's not cha cha... it's cha ching!

gw67
12-29-2008, 07:05 AM
Wheat - I stopped reading this thread a while ago because some folks were just beating up on a youngster. I saw that you had commented so I decided to read your reply. I think we basically agree. It's performance not talent when you are trying to compare Hansbrough and Redick to the great ACC players in the past. The game and level of competition aren't the same as in the past because of the three point shot and players leaving early but both players had great careers and have to be considered among the top players in ACC history (Off the top of my head, I would put Hansbrough among the top 5-7 frontcourt players based on his career.).

gw67

shoutingncu
12-29-2008, 12:15 PM
3. Has Tyler ever hit any meaningful game winning baskets, much less 2 HUGE NCAA tourney games (UConn, UK)?

Not the same magnitude, of course, but the game winner against VT in the ACC tournament last season, where he came from out of position to get the offensive rebound before hitting the jump shot, was pretty sweet.

And of course, the dance afterwards... (I'll let you all link it, I'm sure it's archived here along with the frat house dive)

That said, I don't actually think he's at Laettner's level, but he certainly belongs in the conversation.

Faison1
12-29-2008, 01:37 PM
Not the same magnitude, of course, but the game winner against VT in the ACC tournament last season, where he came from out of position to get the offensive rebound before hitting the jump shot, was pretty sweet.

And of course, the dance afterwards... (I'll let you all link it, I'm sure it's archived here along with the frat house dive)

That said, I don't actually think he's at Laettner's level, but he certainly belongs in the conversation.

I thought of that one after I posted....I should have edited I guess. My post is not meant to disparage him. He is a phenomenal player. I would just like to see him play against consistently strong frontcourts (have there been any while he's been at UNC?) before anyone anoints him one of the "top five bests". But I still respect his ability, and think he is a wonderful basketball player.

DevilCastDownfromDurham
12-29-2008, 02:03 PM
Both these things are true:

a) Tyler Hansbrough is a great, great player. He's talented, hard-working, and smart and he's added new facets to his game every single season. Any team would be immediately improved by adding him and every fan base would totally embrace him if he were theirs.

b) Tyler Hansbrough is the only player in my memory to have more than 1/3 of his points from the FT line and to have never fouled out of a game. In four years. Kid averaged double-digit FT's last season and prolly will again this year. In several games he shot more FT's than the other team combined.

Look, he's a tough guy to officiate and, like Shaq, IMO, he benefits a lot as a result. The fact that he gets that benefit, however, doesn't diminish his effort or his greatness, just like Battier getting a lot of benefit on charge calls didn't diminish his leadership or greatness. Star players get star treatment and for whatever reason Tyler has had that from day one.

When it's your guy it's great. When it's not your guy it stinks. Either way fans generate waaay too much sound and fury over a small part of one player's game. J.J. still hit the 3's and Tyler still makes the moves. Give credit where it's due, grit your teeth when your recruiting has failed to bring in superstar players, and remember that this year's Shane Battier may be next year's Tyler Hansbrough, who may be the year after that's Al-Farouq Aminu.

Congrats to Hansbrough for all he has accomplished so far and if he breaks J.J.'s record or finally wins a title let's congratulate him for that as well. Minimizing a great player's achievements because he gets star treatment (as every star player does) or because he wears a different color uniform is childish and bad for the game. UNC fans looked really silly doing it with J.J. and we look just as silly doing now with Tyler.

cbfx3
12-29-2008, 10:04 PM
Too bad he plays for the heels ... record books will show how good he is no matter what is said about him on internet forums. It is crazy to think about where he has ended up. Coming out of highscool if you would have said he would end up the #1 scorer in UNC (and ACC) history people would have thought you were nuts. As much as I dislike UNC I have to give it up for Tyler and what he has accomplished. The dude shows up EVERY game