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KandG
10-29-2008, 11:05 AM
Started against Chris Paul. (http://dimemag.com/2008/10/warriors-will-start-undrafted-rookie/) I'm happy for him, and simulataneously feel like it's going to be brutal seeing such a hard-working kid take the heat for the screw-ups of management re Baron Davis.

But I'm proud of Markie, and hope he represents well!

Jeffrey
10-29-2008, 11:21 AM
I'm happy for him, and simulataneously feel like it's going to be brutal seeing such a hard-working kid take the heat for the screw-ups of management re Baron Davis.

Hi,

IMO, management "screw-ups" have helped Nelson much more than they could ever hurt him. Everybody needs a chance and DeMarcus is getting his. Here's hoping he continues to make the most of it.

Best regards,
Jeffrey

Bluedog
10-29-2008, 12:27 PM
Great news! A tough first assignment for sure, but I think Dmarc will surprise some people. Marcus Williams has really played poorly and didn't deserve the starting nod.

mr. synellinden
10-29-2008, 12:40 PM
That overlooking (i.e., not drafting or waiting to long to draft) Duke players is a mistake.

Boozer - Starting power forward - NBA All-Star, gold medalist - Utah - 2nd round

Duhon - Starting point guard - New York - 2nd Round

Nelson - Starting point guard - Golden State - undrafted

Three starters who were not taken in first round or undrafted - pretty impressive.

Skitzle
10-29-2008, 01:28 PM
I'm all for Duke players in the NBA, and amazed at Demarcus Nelson's starter role, but I'm also one for realistic expectation.

Boozer: Stud. His story however is not an entirely unique one. I'm sure that there are other 2nd round picks who have become consistent all-stars/all-star candidates

Duhon: Starting on a team who's other point guard is an overpaid, aging, headcase that is booed by the teams fans. It's really his last chance. If he doesn't perform well with the Knicks, I don't see him being a starter again, and using a second round pick on a back-up point guard sounds about right.

Demarcus: I'm shocked... shocked. It's a testament to his work ethic, his defensive prowess, and how desperate (and terrible) the Warriors are. Not only has he never played point, he's just not all that great a ball-handler/passer. I would bet against the idea that he starts all 30 of the games that Monta Ellis is missing. As a Warriors fan, I also hope he proves me wrong.

In any case the point I'm trying to make is that the idea that these are "Three starters who were not taken in first round or undrafted" and that its "pretty impressive" is equivalent to over-hyping. It's more a matter of situation then it is skill.

I love Duke and its players, but don't expect much from Duhon and Nelson (or Shelden/McRoberts/Shav/JJ) at least not this year.

sagegrouse
10-29-2008, 01:53 PM
Duhon: Starting on a team who's other point guard is an overpaid, aging, headcase that is booed by the teams fans. It's really his last chance. If he doesn't perform well with the Knicks, I don't see him being a starter again, and using a second round pick on a back-up point guard sounds about right.

I love Duke and its players, but don't expect much from Duhon and Nelson (or Shelden/McRoberts/Shav/JJ) at least not this year.

Mike D'Antoni went out and recruited Duhon because he wanted him to be the point guard for the NY Knicks. He has said he is happy with Duhon's play. He doesn't really have another choice on the team, IMHO. It's not just that Marbury is all the things you said -- he is also a ball hog, not a point guard.

Chris Duhon is probably the luckiest guy in the NBA (next to Markie, maybe). He may fail, which is what you are predicting, but he is likely to succeed and will be given every chance to do so. He's a coach on the floor, a good defender, an excellent passer with great vision, and can be a good scorer.

I guess time will tell--

sagegrouse

jimsumner
10-29-2008, 02:10 PM
"I'm all for Duke players in the NBA, and amazed at Demarcus Nelson's starter role, but I'm also one for realistic expectation."

Could have fooled me. I'm not sure what points you're trying to make here.

The chances of a second-round pick sticking at all are about 50/50. Sure, there are some all-stars from that group, Mark Price for example, but Boozer has far surpassed any rational expectations for where he was drafted and most Duke fans applaud that without any qualification.

Duhon isn't likely to be ever be an NBA All-Star but he has had a solid, NBA career, partly as a starter, partly coming off the bench, and seems poised to continue in the league for some time. Again, kudos would seem to be in store.

Nelson? I think if you'll check my history, I've always been more positive about his NBA prospects than most others. So, I'm not stunned but I am pleased.

Just curious, but what unrealistic expectations regarding these three players are we guarding against here?

Skitzle
10-29-2008, 03:10 PM
Just curious, but what unrealistic expectations regarding these three players are we guarding against here?

I guess I will amend my words. My comments should not have been made in regards to unrealistic expectations.

It was more against the ideas of "When are NBA GM's going to realize that overlooking (i.e., not drafting or waiting to long to draft) Duke players is a mistake."

I just don't think that those three examples are any reason for GMs to specifically take a second look at Duke players over any other player...

mr. synellinden
10-29-2008, 03:15 PM
I really don't get the point either ... but I'd be surprised if there were more than 10 starters in the NBA who went to college (so no high school guys like Rashard Lewis or foreign players like Anderson Vareajo) who were undrafted or drafted in the second round. And that number may be high. So to have three of them from one school is impressive, and I think shows how well Duke players are prepared for the NBA game.

And, the only other active 2nd rounder to make the All-Star team like Boozer, as far as I know, is Arenas.

mr. synellinden
10-29-2008, 03:18 PM
I guess I will amend my words. My comments should not have been made in regards to unrealistic expectations.

It was more against the ideas of "When are NBA GM's going to realize that overlooking (i.e., not drafting or waiting to long to draft) Duke players is a mistake."

I just don't think that those three examples are any reason for GMs to specifically take a second look at Duke players over any other player...

Besides the typo - too, not to - the points was kind of tongue in cheek - but it does not take away from the point the Duke players who have recently been overlooked by NBA GMs - drafted late or not at all - have had far greater success than what you'd expect from a player drafted in that position or not at all.

How many undrafted players from the class of 2008 are going to start for an NBA team on opening night?

1?

Channing
10-29-2008, 04:04 PM
And, the only other active 2nd rounder to make the All-Star team like Boozer, as far as I know, is Arenas.

I was going back and trying to find validation of that - but I am pretty sure it is an accurate statement. I dont think Ginobli has actually made an all star team yet (although admittedly, I dont follow enough NBA to know), nor has Rashard Lewis.

Skitzle
10-29-2008, 04:08 PM
Besides the typo - too, not to - the points was kind of tongue in cheek - but it does not take away from the point the Duke players who have recently been overlooked by NBA GMs - drafted late or not at all - have had far greater success than what you'd expect from a player drafted in that position or not at all.

How many undrafted players from the class of 2008 are going to start for an NBA team on opening night?

1?

Alright, Demarcus starting after being undrafted is surprising. I guess I just don't expect him to last long, and as a Warriors fan, I have a bias in not being happy about the situation.

I don't even know what the purpose of doing this was, but it makes a pretty neat list:

2nd rounds/Undrafted at the top of the depth charts:

Cavs: Ben Wallace (2nd Round/ VUU)
Cavs: Maurice Williams (2nd Round/Alabama)
Nets SF Bobby Simmons (2nd Round/ DePaul)
Wizards: Arenas (2nd Round/ Arizona)
Rockets: Rafer Alston (2nd Round / Fresno St)
Timberwolves: Ryan Gomes (2nd Round / Providence)
Blazers: Steve Blake (2nd Round / Maryland)
Warriors: Stephen Jackson (2nd Round / Butler)
Clippers: Cuttino Mobley (2nd Round / Rhode Island)
Suns: Matt Barnes (2nd Round / UCLA)
Kings: Miki Moore (2st Round / Nebraska)
Kings: Brad Miller (Undrafted / Purdue)
Spurs: Bruce Bowen (Undrafted / Cal State Fullerton)
Raptors: Jamario Moon (Undrafted/ Meridian Community college)
Heat: Chris Quinn (Undrafted/ Notre Dame)

15 Undrafted/2nd Rounders at the top of the depth chart not including Duhon, Boozer, DeMarcus. With those 3 its 12 percent of all starters, and that doesn't include international players which are another 5-10.


Ben Wallace is the only one that jumps out at me other than Arenas and Boozer as a 2nd Round All-Star. There were a couple international players as will (Ginobili comes to mind)

Anyway, I guess I'm saying I'm not that impressed..... Though the idea that Duke is the only school to have more than 1 2nd Round/Undrafted player starting is a pretty good point.

EDIT: I missed Michael Redd

AnotherNYCDukeFan
10-29-2008, 04:08 PM
I was going back and trying to find validation of that - but I am pretty sure it is an accurate statement. I dont think Ginobli has actually made an all star team yet (although admittedly, I dont follow enough NBA to know), nor has Rashard Lewis.

Ginobili has not made the AS team. However, Michael Redd joins Boozer as both an AS and gold medal winner.

jimsumner
10-29-2008, 04:10 PM
In addition to the trio already mentioned, Daniel Ewing played two seasons in the NBA as a second-round pick, Shavlik Randolph made the NBA as a non-drafted player, and Josh McRoberts as a second round pick.

So six former Duke players since 2002 have made an NBA roster after either being drafted in the second round or not being drafted at all.

Draw whatever conclusions you wish but it is an interesting trend.

Richard Berg
10-29-2008, 04:13 PM
And Ginobili, of course, has a gold medal of his own.

stickdog
10-29-2008, 04:13 PM
Yes, DeMarcus is the only undrafted or second round selection rookie starting in the NBA on opening night. DeMarcus had the best statistical preseason among all rookies, including Rose and Beasley.

Furthermore, McRoberts was selected in the second round and Randolph was undrafted.

So Duke has 3 second round players and 2 undrafted players on opening day NBA rosters this season, 3 of whom are opening day starters, including an undrafted rookie. No other NCAA team comes close. If this isn't a valid reason for NBA scouts to move less heralded Duke players up their draft boards, what could be?

sagegrouse
10-29-2008, 04:33 PM
And Ginobili, of course, has a gold medal of his own.

His stats say he was in one All-Star game, played 22 mins., and scored 8 pts.

sagegrouse

sagegrouse
10-29-2008, 04:46 PM
So Duke has 3 second round players and 2 undrafted players on opening day NBA rosters this season, 3 of whom are opening day starters, including an undrafted rookie. No other NCAA team comes close. If this isn't a valid reason for NBA scouts to move less heralded Duke players up their draft boards, what could be?

I agree. Boozer, Duhon, and Demarcus are the strongest cases so far. In point of fact, there have been very few disappointments in the past 15 years. First-rounders Avery and Langdon did not stuck around the league for more than one contract, but I suppose Trajan is making so much money in Russia, that I doubt he has been interested in a minimum NBA contract. Daniel Ewing, a second rounder, was in the league for 3 yrs IIRC. OTOH, Shelden is not making much of an impact and may have a shorter career than I expected. The JWill case needs to be set aside.

I think JJ will play a long time and make a lot of money. Sometimes it just takes time to get traction in the league. It happened to my man Jeff Mullins 40 years ago; and he played 11 years and was an All-Star.

Moreover, the positives are so positive that they attract notice: Elton, Grant, Maggette, Dunleavy, Boozer, and Deng are stars on their teams, and Battier is in a class by himself as a player and teammate. The Wash Post basketball kickoff yesterday featured Elton Brand as the lead picture with the article.

sagegrouse

Turtleboy
10-29-2008, 04:51 PM
His stats say he was in one All-Star game, played 22 mins., and scored 8 pts.

sagegrouseHis gold medal was from the 2004 olympics.

Acymetric
10-29-2008, 05:27 PM
Is someone paying ESPN not to mention Nelson at all ever? Two places where it seems like at least a mention of him starting the first game would be expected, and he's totally ignored. I don't expect ESPN to anoint him the next superstar, but at least acknowledge he's in the league. Sheesh.

Warriors Season Preview (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/trainingcamp08/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=WarriorsForecast0809)

Golden State v. New Orleans Preview (http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/preview?gameId=281029009)

Bluedog
10-29-2008, 05:57 PM
Is someone paying ESPN not to mention Nelson at all ever? Two places where it seems like at least a mention of him starting the first game would be expected, and he's totally ignored. I don't expect ESPN to anoint him the next superstar, but at least acknowledge he's in the league. Sheesh.

Warriors Season Preview (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/trainingcamp08/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=WarriorsForecast0809)

Golden State v. New Orleans Preview (http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/preview?gameId=281029009)

Well the Golden State v. New Orleans Preview article is written by STATS LLC, not ESPN. So you can't blame ESPN for that one. ;) But, I agree, usually the starting PG merits mentioning at least once.

kinghoops
10-30-2008, 01:03 AM
did markie get hurt?? i see in the gamecast that he has only played 5 mins????

BD80
10-30-2008, 01:28 AM
Nellie is going to run this team into the ground. Nothing will be left if Ellis ever comes back. Four players played 39 + minutes, only seven players played, and Steven Jackson did not come out. Markie is listed at CBS Sportsline as having played only 13 minutes.

bludvlman
10-30-2008, 01:57 AM
i was following the gamecast and nelson started the game but didn't play a single minute in the second half.

did he get hurt?

heyman25
10-30-2008, 02:08 AM
JJ had a terrible 1st game. If he can't make his shots 0-4 in 19 minutes, he will be back on the bench.

Shav may get a little pt with Oden out again

bludvlman
10-30-2008, 02:13 AM
Maggette the only Dukie with an impressive debute. He dropped 27 tonight.

kinghoops
10-30-2008, 03:03 AM
Maggette the only Dukie with an impressive debute. He dropped 27 tonight.

i beg to differ

boozer had 25pts and 14 rebs
brand had 14pts and 13 reb, although he shot poorly from the floor
g hill had 13 pts in 19 mins on 6 of 8 fgs
mike d injured
battier injured
and if i recall l. deng had 21pts in his opener

CameronBornAndBred
10-30-2008, 08:34 AM
Maggette the only Dukie with an impressive debute. He dropped 27 tonight.

Duhon didn't get 38 minutes because he was playing badly. He had a very good game. Remember with him, it's not about the points and other stats you see, it's what he does on the floor. Always has been that way with him.

For those who followed the gamecasts, you can watch all the games for free on your computer, until Nov. 11th. We had a fun snrubchat watching Demarcus play.
Here's the link http://www.nba.com/leaguepass/tv.htmlhttp://www.nba.com/leaguepass/tv.html free sign up, no strings attatched.

KandG
10-30-2008, 09:39 AM
JJ had a terrible 1st game. If he can't make his shots 0-4 in 19 minutes, he will be back on the bench.




In his defense, the whole team played horribly. The key will be whether he gets a chance in succeeding games to do his thing...if we see the same miserly allocation of playing time as last year after this game, it won't be fair.

I agree though, that if he shows a pattern of underperformance after two dozen games or so, then he may be more justifiably shoved back to the end of the bench. But one game is one game.

RainingThrees
10-30-2008, 09:45 AM
"After Stojakovic hit three jumpers over him in the first three minutes, Nelson was pulled for Azubuike"

This could be the reason why his time was limited, according to ESPN.

KandG
10-30-2008, 10:46 AM
"After Stojakovic hit three jumpers over him in the first three minutes, Nelson was pulled for Azubuike"

This could be the reason why his time was limited, according to ESPN.


Yup, Nellie pretty much played a four forward lineup for most of the game. It worked very well last night, as Stephen Jackson is a very good playmaker.

The things Markie has going for him at this point are his dogged determination and defense, the fact that the Warriors are so undermanned, and Nelson's willingness and ability to tinker with unconventional strategies and lineups. But it is going to be one heck of an uphill climb for Markie to hang on, given his physical limitations.

I hope he proves everyone (most especially me) wrong, though.

DukieInBrasil
10-30-2008, 11:44 AM
probably missed the injury updates, but where was Battier in the Rockets opener? I saw that Dunleavy was injured, and he did not play in the opener nor was he apparently on the active roster. Same for McBobs. Same for Shav. Are those other guys injured too?
As for Demarcusīfirst game, hmmmm. Neither good nor bad, shot well, 50% from the floor, but didnīt get many minutes.
C-Du played an un-spectacular but solid game in NY in which Starbury sat the whole game and the Knicks won, hahahahaha!!!
Boozer tore it up in his opener but nobody else from the Duke legions did much in their opening games.

CameronBornAndBred
10-30-2008, 11:46 AM
probably missed the injury updates, but where was Battier in the Rockets opener? I saw that Dunleavy was injured, and he did not play in the opener nor was he apparently on the active roster. Same for McBobs. Same for Shav. Are those other guys injured too?
As for Demarcusīfirst game, hmmmm. Neither good nor bad, shot well, 50% from the floor, but didnīt get many minutes.
C-Du played an un-spectacular but solid game in NY in which Starbury sat the whole game and the Knicks won, hahahahaha!!!
Boozer tore it up in his opener but nobody else from the Duke legions did much in their opening games.

Battier's foot injury is keeping him out. McBobs is riding the pine and probably will until his contract expires. I expect to see Randolph get some PT this year, he did well in preseason.

OldSchool
10-30-2008, 12:15 PM
"After Stojakovic hit three jumpers over him in the first three minutes, Nelson was pulled for Azubuike"

This could be the reason why his time was limited, according to ESPN.

Yes, that is exactly why Nellie pulled him early. I was surprised that Nellie did not have Markie playing defense on Paul. On the other end, the Hornets had Paul defending DeMarcus.

Stojakovic is tough matchup for DeMarcus because of his size and outstanding shooting ability. The Hornets immediately cleared out the right side for Peja to go one-on-one against the rookie. In fact DeMarcus defended Peja pretty well, but Peja hit three tough shots over Markie in a row and that was enough to convince Nellie to go big.

Markie had two amazing baskets that had the crowd on its feet. In the first, he was directly under the basket with the ball and went up to score, got body slammed, and still made the basket by sheer force of will. The second basket was at the end of the first half as time was running out. Markie drove the length of the court and launched a floater from the foul line, which bounced off the rim and in as time expired, earning high fives from the rest of the Warriors as they headed into the locker room.

I thought Markie had a solid game, notwithstanding the Peja mismatch. Nellie had enough confidence to have him in there in the closing minute when the game was on the line.

west_coast_devil
10-30-2008, 12:19 PM
Markie's first NBA regular season assist was to Maggette.

MIKESJ73
10-30-2008, 12:43 PM
I stayed up last night taking advantage of DirectTV free week promo of the NBA league pass.

Demarcus did start, but was guarding 6-10" Peja Stojakovic while 6-8" Stephen Jackson guarded Chris Paul. In the first three minutes Peja did shot three baskets over Markie and he was yanked. Oddly for over seven minutes at the end of the first qt/start of the second qt. Chris Paul was sitting with no injury or foul problems, but Markie stayed on the bench. Demarcus did enter the game with around 7 minutes to go in the first half. He played well. He had two assists, hit his first shot (17 footer), made an acrobatic basket driving the hoop, forced a steal that led to a fast break basket, and took the inbounds pass all the way down the court with 4.4 seconds left to hit a driving flooter (sp?) at the buzzer. At the end of the half he had around 11 minutes, 3-4 from the field, 2 assists, and a steal. Chris Paul did rip the ball from him twice late in the second quarter almost back to back, but CP did lead the league in steals last season I think. Tip-off was 10:30 EST so I couldn't stay up for the second half, but apparently he didn't play much.

I missed the Knicks game, I wanted to see Duhon play. His stat line looked pretty good though. Marbury looked good too. How can you not when you make 21 million a year and get a front row seat to watch the game.

Boozer looked strong. I watched part of the first half, he had 14 pts and 7 rebs in the first half.

JJ Redick - The magic played horrible. He was open plenty of times and no one saw him. He had two shots blocked, or at least i hope, otherwise he shot an airball. I thought his defense was better than previous years, but he still struggled. 6-3 Flip Murray backed him down twice and falling away shot over him, and for some reason JJ went isolation on Joe Johnson at the end of the half, with Johnson backing him down into the lane and shooting over him. All of the Magic played poorly, hopefully he will stay in the rotation and this can just be chalked up to a bad night.

adammav9
10-30-2008, 02:11 PM
I watched the entire Magic game as well and JJ's biggest problem might be that hes on a team ball hogs, ot steal a term from my younger days.
Not one of their post plyers could pass out a double team all night and Hedo is like a black hole when he gets the ball.
On the airball MIKESJ mentioned, JJ was wide open on the right wing for a good 5 seconds after Anthony johnson recovered a loose ball. JJ was literally 5 feet away calling for the ball and by the time AJ finally saw him the defender running at him was there to get a piece of it.
There was just no ball movement by the Magic last night. And for the record, Bogans didn't look so hot on defense last night either.

RainingThrees
10-31-2008, 10:04 PM
Elton Brand with an all star night 24 pts 12 rebs. Demarcus started again but only played 12 minutes which is strange while his team mate Maggette had an okay night with 14 pts. Shelden had 6 pts and 9 rebs as the Kings lost to Miami. Btw JJ has only played 9 min.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/scoreboard#

_Gary
10-31-2008, 11:12 PM
JJ has only played 9 min.

I said it last year, and I'll say it again. JJ will NOT get a fair shake under Coach SVG. Redick simply isn't going to fit into his system. The end of tonight's game was very painful to watch (from a JJ fan's perspective). He was hanging out at the very end of the bench and looked extremely unhappy. And I can't blame him one bit. Barring an injury to one of the other guards on the team, I don't see JJ getting a lot of minutes. Just isn't in the cards for him, at least in Orlando.

KandG
11-01-2008, 03:31 PM
I said it last year, and I'll say it again. JJ will NOT get a fair shake under Coach SVG. Redick simply isn't going to fit into his system. The end of tonight's game was very painful to watch (from a JJ fan's perspective). He was hanging out at the very end of the bench and looked extremely unhappy. And I can't blame him one bit. Barring an injury to one of the other guards on the team, I don't see JJ getting a lot of minutes. Just isn't in the cards for him, at least in Orlando.



I'm still trying to figure out whether it's SVG's system, or his players' inability to execute. The ball movement of the offense in the first two games has been horrible, and lots of players are underperforming. So far JJ has gotten more minutes than he did most of last season, but he's not getting the ball in the right spots -- he's taking quick or rushed or poor shots just like his teammates.

It's only two games, but it may very well be that the Magic are a bad fit for him. I want to wait and see, though, before giving up. Frustrating though, no question.

KandG
11-01-2008, 10:11 PM
Not to turn this into an Duke in the NBA thread (or a thread where I'm carrying on a conversation with myself), but Markie continues to make the best of his playing time with a strong performance against New Jersey tonight.

JJ, on the other hand, looked horrible and tentative against Sacramento in Orlando's first win. He took three very timid looking shots that prompted the Orlando commentators to speculate that he was measuring his shots (which most of us could never believe having seen JJ at Duke). After 9 minutes, SVG sat him for the rest of the game.

Shelden got some decent playing time and some points in the same game, but he was really abused by Howard in the post. In fairness, Howard was punishing everyone, but Shelden was getting visibly posterized.

actionjackson215
11-02-2008, 09:36 AM
Michael Redd was a second rounder (43rd) pick and has been an all star (2003-2004 season.

DukieInBrasil
11-02-2008, 06:48 PM
Nelsonīs 3rd game was pretty nice, shot well from the floor but not at the line (1-5) and handled the rock well (3/1 a/to). Good to see that he has handled the situation pretty well considering the circumstances. His 7/4 a/to overall is pretty nice for an undrafted rookie starting PG!!!
Shel needs to get another shout, this time he got 10pts and 4 boards, looks like he may be filling a niche out in Sac.

annie1999
11-02-2008, 10:34 PM
At least it's now Duke players overachieving rather than underachieving, a la Ferry, Laettner, McLeod, Avery, Langdon, so that's a much better trend. I doubt DeMarcus will be in the league very long since he needs to play point guard and he just doesn't have NBA point guard skills, similar to D Ewing, but at least he made it. Hopefully he plays enough to get into the slam dunk contest because he could make some noise there.

RainingThrees
11-02-2008, 10:45 PM
I dont know, he seems like a better in game dunker because even though he has hops he's still 6' and has to jump quite a bit.

RelativeWays
11-03-2008, 07:55 AM
At least it's now Duke players overachieving rather than underachieving, a la Ferry, Laettner, McLeod, Avery, Langdon, so that's a much better trend. I doubt DeMarcus will be in the league very long since he needs to play point guard and he just doesn't have NBA point guard skills, similar to D Ewing, but at least he made it. Hopefully he plays enough to get into the slam dunk contest because he could make some noise there.

Laettner and Ferry may not have lived up to their college hype but both were pretty solid players who played in the league for over a decade (and Ferry is the only Duke player with an NBA championship ring). In Laettner's case, he was expected to be a superstar and the next major white player since Larry Legend had retired. Pretty heavy expectations. He still put up productive numbers. One of the things that I didn't know until someone here brought it up is the Achilles tendon injury suffered in 99 kind of put his career on the downward slide. Look at his numbers before and after, almost night and day difference. In any event, any player who can play in the league for 10 years is not a disappointment.

LetItBD08
11-03-2008, 10:09 AM
(and Ferry is the only Duke player with an NBA championship ring)

[Insert obligatory mention of Jeff Mullins winning the 1975 NBA Championship with the Warriors here]

studdlee10
11-03-2008, 10:13 AM
Laettner made an All-Star team. While he was never a superstar, if you can make an all star team, you have got to be an above average player.



Laettner and Ferry may not have lived up to their college hype but both were pretty solid players who played in the league for over a decade (and Ferry is the only Duke player with an NBA championship ring). In Laettner's case, he was expected to be a superstar and the next major white player since Larry Legend had retired. Pretty heavy expectations. He still put up productive numbers. One of the things that I didn't know until someone here brought it up is the Achilles tendon injury suffered in 99 kind of put his career on the downward slide. Look at his numbers before and after, almost night and day difference. In any event, any player who can play in the league for 10 years is not a disappointment.

hq2
11-03-2008, 10:33 AM
Laettner did as well as he was able to. Given how slow he was and the nature of the NBA game, he did all right. He was never going to be another Larry Bird; he wasn't quick enough, and the shots he got in college weren't there in the pros. They people who hyped him simply didn't understand the NBA game well enough.

sagegrouse
11-03-2008, 10:53 AM
(and Ferry is the only Duke player with an NBA championship ring

Holy cow! #44 is in the rafters at CIS and my main man Jeff Mullins is wearing a ring from the Warriors' 1975 championship.

FWIW I think Jack Marin should get an honorary ring. In 1972 he was traded even-steven for all-time great Elvin Hayes, which brought Hayes to the Washington Bullets, where he led the team to 3 NBA finals and one championship (1978). Even-steven!

sagegrouse

sagegrouse
11-03-2008, 10:59 AM
Laettner did as well as he was able to. Given how slow he was and the nature of the NBA game, he did all right. He was never going to be another Larry Bird; he wasn't quick enough, and the shots he got in college weren't there in the pros. They people who hyped him simply didn't understand the NBA game well enough.

Laettner was an extremely skilled basketball player. Good moves, good hands, good passer -- adequate shooter. The NBA game is played above the rim (esp. if you're 6-11). That really wasn't his game. He had a good career and scored 10,000 points.

sagegrouse
'Laettner had one great quote during his career. There was an altercation on the Detroit Pistons plane between Laettner and Jerry Stackhouse. Laettner was asked about "the fight" afterwards. "There wasn't a fight. He punched me. I don't fight at 40,000 feet. I have an education."'

jimsumner
11-03-2008, 11:00 AM
"Laettner did as well as he was able to. Given how slow he was and the nature of the NBA game, he did all right. He was never going to be another Larry Bird; he wasn't quick enough"

I agree that the Bird-Laettner comparisons were a bit much. But Larry Bird didn't outquick very many players. He outthought them, outexecuted them, outtoughed them. But quickness ranked pretty down his list of assets. He consistently went head-to-head with better athletes and chewed them up and spit them out.

But Laettner's pre-Achilles stats were pretty impressive. I thought he had something going in Atlanta but couldn't stay healthy.

dball
11-03-2008, 11:32 AM
Laettner did as well as he was able to. Given how slow he was and the nature of the NBA game, he did all right. He was never going to be another Larry Bird; he wasn't quick enough, and the shots he got in college weren't there in the pros. They people who hyped him simply didn't understand the NBA game well enough.

Laettner averaged 18 pts/8 rebounds pre-injury. That's similar to Elton Brand's first few years and to Kevin Garnett's numbers from last year.

He was a great passer and heady player. Laettner was a really good pro prior to his injury, but never regained his form afterwards. Who knows how his game may have grown after the injury. His all star year was just prior to the injury. (Laettner was also on the all-rookie team).

CameronBornAndBred
11-03-2008, 09:39 PM
Just to bring this back to Demarcus and not Christian, I've been watching Nelson tonite, he is fun to see play. Still starting, no points in the first, but a few in the second half. One was a great opportunity play, where he got a rebound somehow underneath, stretching those long arms of his past all the taller guys, and then putting it right back up an in. Looking much better on defense, and altogether he is looking much more comfortable on the floor now, which is great to see.

DukieInBrasil
11-04-2008, 08:31 PM
another solid game from Demarcus. He is still shooting the ball pretty well from the floor. His numbers look pretty much like stats a back-up PG would put up. So, even when the starter comes back, DN might have already made a spot for himself on the team....
again, to continue the new-breed over-achieving Duke alumni in the NBA, Shelden Williams scored 10pts again for SAC. In the last 3 games he has gone for 10 boards once, 11 and 10 pts in the other 2 games, while totalling 20rebs and 27pts in those games. Keep it up Landlord!!!

ice-9
11-04-2008, 10:40 PM
But ouch for Luol, who went 0-8.

DukieInBrasil
11-06-2008, 09:15 AM
Nelson started again last night and had an efficient if un-spectacular game in only 8 minutes. Heīs shooting ~54% from the floor and still has a + a/to. The Warriors won, too.
Also starting, but for the Nuggets, was Dhantay Jones! He had a very nice game, 15 pts on 5-10 shooting. I remember Jones starting every once in a while in Memphis and he would put up some really nice numbers but then move back to the bench. He has consistently, if only occassionally, had really nice games throughout his NBA career. He scored 13 the other night off the bench, scoring 11 on FTs.

BD80
11-06-2008, 09:28 AM
Also starting, but for the Nuggets, was Dhantay Jones! He had a very nice game, 15 pts on 5-10 shooting. I remember Jones starting every once in a while in Memphis and he would put up some really nice numbers but then move back to the bench. He has consistently, if only occassionally, had really nice games throughout his NBA career. He scored 13 the other night off the bench, scoring 11 on FTs.

He also had a dunk that made this morning's top ten plays on ESPN Sportscenter

huied
11-14-2008, 01:43 PM
Noticed that Nelson hasn't played much these past few games. Anyone know if he's fallen down in the depth charts?

CDu
11-14-2008, 02:14 PM
Noticed that Nelson hasn't played much these past few games. Anyone know if he's fallen down in the depth charts?

It was bound to happen. He's an undersized SG/SF forced to play PG. He appears to have been displaced by CJ Watson at PG. In addition, Anthony Morrow has cracked the rotation and appears to be taking the backup SG minutes, which has crimped Nelson's time even more.

It doesn't look great for Nelson moving forward at Golden State. The Warriors have Azubuike, Jackson, and Maggette in front of Morrow and Nelson at SG/SF. And once (or I guess technically IF) Marcus Williams gets in shape and Monta Ellis recovers from his injury and those guys return to action, Nelson's role will become nonexistent.

RainingThrees
11-14-2008, 02:41 PM
Nelson couldn't play the 3 anyway, well not on the pro level, other teams would just post their 3 up against him every time, remember he really isn't 6'4" more like 6"1'.

CDu
11-14-2008, 02:47 PM
Nelson couldn't play the 3 anyway, well not on the pro level, other teams would just post their 3 up against him every time, remember he really isn't 6'4" more like 6"1'.

Agreed. His game is that of a SG/SF, but his size is that of a PG. Which is I think why he was tried at the PG spot early this season. It appears that the Warriors are going in a different direction, which would make sense considering that Nelson doesn't really have a PG game. That's not to say he can't develop that game, just that I haven't seen it yet.

RainingThrees
11-14-2008, 02:53 PM
For a player who almost never played the point before he id a great job, and withhis work ethic hopefully he can futher devlop his point skills.

Billy Dat
11-14-2008, 03:37 PM
Let's not forget the fact that has was starting on opening night was basically a miracle considering the fact that he went undrafted. The fact that he got a taste of starting will be huge for him because it will make him hungry to get back out there. But, none of us should be surprised if we winds up in the D League at some point this season, especially when Ellis comes back. The L is brutal...I think about Trajan putting up 35 in a game and being tied to the bench shortly thereafter. It just goes to show how good you have to be.

CDu
11-14-2008, 04:08 PM
Let's not forget the fact that has was starting on opening night was basically a miracle considering the fact that he went undrafted. The fact that he got a taste of starting will be huge for him because it will make him hungry to get back out there. But, none of us should be surprised if we winds up in the D League at some point this season, especially when Ellis comes back. The L is brutal...I think about Trajan putting up 35 in a game and being tied to the bench shortly thereafter. It just goes to show how good you have to be.

In fact, I'd be surprised if Nelson DIDN'T wind up in the D-League when Ellis comes back. Your last sentence is very key. Unless you're a big man, the NBA is incredibly unforgiving. There are just so many guys who are capable of playing at a high level at guard that even a guy who was as good a college player as Nelson was will have trouble making it.

Starting opening night as a rookie was an amazing accomplishment. I think a lot of that had to do with timing and location, though. If Williams or Ellis were healthy and available, I highly doubt Nelson would have seen the floor. Fortunately for Nelson, the opportunity arose and he filled the spot for a bit. Sadly, I fear that that window is closing rapidly in Golden State. Ellis is eligible to return in a month, and Williams appears to be starting to get in shape as we speak.

Hopefully Nelson builds on the experience and works to develop some skills as a PG moving forward.

yancem
11-14-2008, 07:50 PM
In fact, I'd be surprised if Nelson DIDN'T wind up in the D-League when Ellis comes back. Your last sentence is very key. Unless you're a big man, the NBA is incredibly unforgiving. There are just so many guys who are capable of playing at a high level at guard that even a guy who was as good a college player as Nelson was will have trouble making it.

Starting opening night as a rookie was an amazing accomplishment. I think a lot of that had to do with timing and location, though. If Williams or Ellis were healthy and available, I highly doubt Nelson would have seen the floor. Fortunately for Nelson, the opportunity arose and he filled the spot for a bit. Sadly, I fear that that window is closing rapidly in Golden State. Ellis is eligible to return in a month, and Williams appears to be starting to get in shape as we speak.

Hopefully Nelson builds on the experience and works to develop some skills as a PG moving forward.

I agree with everything you say and while Nelson was and should feel lucky to have gotten the chance that he has gotten thus far, he's got to be incredibly frustrated. He came in and acquitted himself quite well on the floor. He was by no means putting up all star numbers but Nellie could not have even hoped for better play or more production out of him. Yet, DeMarc is quickly moving toward the end of the bench. Hopefully his play during his short audition caught some eyes, so that even if things don't work out in Golden State, he will get another chance somewhere else.

Bay Area Duke Fan
11-15-2008, 01:24 PM
In fact, I'd be surprised if Nelson DIDN'T wind up in the D-League when Ellis comes back. Your last sentence is very key. Unless you're a big man, the NBA is incredibly unforgiving. There are just so many guys who are capable of playing at a high level at guard that even a guy who was as good a college player as Nelson was will have trouble making it.



DeMarcus has been sent to Bakersfield in the Development League.

http://www.nba.com/warriors/news/nelson_assigned_111408.html?rss=true

CDu
11-15-2008, 02:00 PM
DeMarcus has been sent to Bakersfield in the Development League.

http://www.nba.com/warriors/news/nelson_assigned_111408.html?rss=true

Not surprising. I take it that this means Marcus Williams is going to get more playing time now. If Williams is back in somewhat reasonable shape and CJ Watson is backing up at PG, Nelson is the odd man out.

Hopefully Nelson uses the playing time in the D-League to learn how to play PG. I suspect that that will be the key for him.

mgtr
11-15-2008, 03:45 PM
Nelson has to be able to play PG pretty well to get NBA minutes, and where better to learn it than in the D-league? With his work ethic, he should get plenty of time there. I see this as a positive thing for him.

KandG
11-15-2008, 10:06 PM
Yeah, the clock struck midnight for Markie today. I think he was actually more deserving of a roster spot than Marcus Williams, but as others have mentioned, the Warriors have a surplus of athletic wings at this point (even with Monta still out) and really need steadier point guard play and/or better outside shooting. Markie's calling card really was defense, and even that became a liability if the other team went big (though he mostly held his own).

It's been a mixed to tough year for Duke alums in the league so far, but Markie's cracking the Warrior lineup, though flukish, has still been one of the best stories of the early season. I hope he can use the D-League to improve in the areas he needs to, and make another shot of it this year or next.

The guy who really has to be pinching himself is Anthony Morrow on the Warriors (formerly of GA Tech)...37 points today on 15 for 20 shooting (!) against the Clippers. I don't ever remember him being that much of a threat in ACC play.

juise
11-15-2008, 10:22 PM
The guy who really has to be pinching himself is Anthony Morrow on the Warriors (formerly of GA Tech)...37 points today on 15 for 20 shooting (!) against the Clippers. I don't ever remember him being that much of a threat in ACC play.

Yeah, this was definitely a breakout game (http://www.nba.com/games/20081115/GSWLAC/boxscore.html) for Morrow... he pulled down 11 boards, too.

Best of luck to Markie. I hope he makes the most of his time in the D-league and uses it as an opportunity to really improve his PG skills.

JasonEvans
11-15-2008, 11:10 PM
I would just like to point out that last year, in a game against Tennessee State, Anthony Morrow had his all time high scoring game in college. He went for 31 points.

I guess they play better defense at Tennessee State than they do in the NBA, right?

--Jason ";)" Evans

KandG
11-16-2008, 12:21 AM
I guess they play better defense at Tennessee State than they do in the NBA, right?

--Jason ";)" Evans


When the game is an early daytime game on Saturday on the West coast (http://48minutes.net/2008/11/15/thoughts-on-game-no-10-warriors-121-clippers-103/), yes, a college team will play better defense. :)

Excerpt from above link:

That brings up another point that must be made: This happened against the Clippers, in an afternoon game, which in the late-night world of the NBA is the best equalizer of all.

CameronBornAndBred
11-16-2008, 10:43 AM
Nelson has to be able to play PG pretty well to get NBA minutes, and where better to learn it than in the D-league? With his work ethic, he should get plenty of time there. I see this as a positive thing for him.
Agreed. And if even if it's not the big show, it beats sitting on the bench. He should get regular minutes for as long as he is in the D-League, learning more each day. He'll be back with the Warriors soon enough and as a better player.

Bay Area Duke Fan
11-16-2008, 01:19 PM
I hope that I'm wrong, but I think that DeMarcus's future is overseas rather than in the NBA. The NDL experience will help him prepare for that. His outside shooting and ball handling skills are deficient, and his good defensive play is not enough to sustain an NBA career.

yancem
11-17-2008, 09:20 AM
I hope that I'm wrong, but I think that DeMarcus's future is overseas rather than in the NBA. The NDL experience will help him prepare for that. His outside shooting and ball handling skills are deficient, and his good defensive play is not enough to sustain an NBA career.

You may be right but you have to admit that his play in the first few games (especially for an undrafted rookie playing a position he's never played) should get him at least a few good looks. DeMarc is a hard working determined player and I am confident that he will use his time in the NDL to hone his skills as a pg and as motivation to prove himself when he gets called up. I'm actually glad that Golden State decided to send him down since it appears that minutes were going to be hard to find. Once the nba season starts teams don't practice the same way college teams do. It would have been difficult to learn and grow without the pt. In the NDL he will get plenty of playing time and will get valuable experience, hopefully at the pg spot.

Billy Dat
11-19-2008, 12:09 PM
This is a little window into how tough it is to judge NBA talent, and how ruthless the NBA is. Who would have guessed that as Markie was sent to the D League, Anthony Morrow would emerge as a stud? He followed up that incredible debut with 25 points last night against the Blazers. Would any of us have guessed that Anthony Morrow had this kind of ability? Granted, it's only been two games and if he keeps it up he'll draw more defensive attention - but the kid is starting and Marcus Williams is back on the bench. That's the reality, let up for one second or have a bad game and there is an Anthony Morrow waiting to take your spot. Brutal.

sagegrouse
11-19-2008, 03:14 PM
I hope that I'm wrong, but I think that DeMarcus's future is overseas rather than in the NBA. The NDL experience will help him prepare for that. His outside shooting and ball handling skills are deficient, and his good defensive play is not enough to sustain an NBA career.

I believe that the D League assign was meant kindly by the Warriors, and they are looking for Marcus to develop his PG skills.

sagegrouse

SilkyJ
11-19-2008, 03:45 PM
I don't want to blame this all on nellie, but i just think its gotta be real hard for demarc to win the starting PG assignment and play well and then get bumped down the depth chart to the d-league. It wasn't like he was shooting it terribly or turning it over. He was providing steady play and good defense.

He'll overcome it I'm sure, but its just gotta be tough to think I made it, I made it, and then get sent down 10 games later when you havent done anything wrong.

juise
11-21-2008, 03:08 PM
The Warriors have added another shooting guard who can play the point (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3717209). That probably doesn't bode well for Markie returning to the league. I hope he makes the best of his time in Bakersfield.

Dukeford
11-21-2008, 04:13 PM
Even with all his hard work....one of these days he has to learn how to hit free throws. He was 1 for 8 (12.5%) during his stint.

mgtr
12-02-2008, 01:08 PM
Any word from Bakersfield? Have they started playing yet? I thought there were some games televised last year, but haven't seen anything yet this year.

juise
12-02-2008, 01:31 PM
Any word from Bakersfield? Have they started playing yet? I thought there were some games televised last year, but haven't seen anything yet this year.

Three games so far. (http://www.nba.com/dleague/bakersfield/statistics/) Looks like he's doing OK... he's getting some steals, but turnovers are a little high. He's shooting 55.6% from the line.

Dr. Rosenrosen
12-02-2008, 03:59 PM
Three games so far. (http://www.nba.com/dleague/bakersfield/statistics/) Looks like he's doing OK... he's getting some steals, but turnovers are a little high. He's shooting 55.6% from the line.

I wonder how much pressure there is for players to try to pump up their stats in the D-League. It must make teamwork a bit tougher while adding pressure for players to outshine not just the competition but their own teammates at the same position. Best of luck to d-marc.

Oriole Way
12-02-2008, 04:40 PM
There's pretty much no chance DeMarcus plays another minute with the Warriors for the rest of this season, barring multiple trades or injuries. With Jamaal Crawford in town, Maggette healthy, and Ellis on the way back, there's no need for another guard. Even if one of those guys go down, Azuibuike, Watson, Morrow, and even Belinelli are way ahead of him on the depth chart now.

Not sure which players the Warriors lose to free agency after this season, but DeMarcus will have to hope to catch on with another NBA team next season. If he could go from undrafted free agent to opening night starting PG, I am optimistic that he can defy the odds again next year.

Fish80
12-07-2008, 09:10 AM
Check out his stat line from yesterday's game:

DeMarcus 12/06/08 (http://www.nba.com/dleague/playerfile/index.jsp?player=demarcus_nelson)

Most impressive: 7 assists, 0 turnovers, and a big win! Way to go, D-Marc!

CameronBornAndBred
12-07-2008, 10:45 AM
10-12 shooting looks pretty nice too.

CameronBornAndBred
12-12-2008, 07:57 PM
They stream all the D-League games for free here.
http://www.nba.com/dleague/webcastDleague.html
Demarcus has been playing some monster minutes, the most on his team, the Bakersfield Jam, which also happens to be in first place.

Jim3k
12-13-2008, 02:09 AM
Yahoo Sports is reporting that Markie "will be available" to the Warriors on Wednesday. Scroll down to notes (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap;_ylt=Aq8TLYxQMyMEGUtVRvIhtzO8vLYF?gid=200812 1209) after the Warriors' loss to Houston on Friday.

Whatever is happening, this squib is only barely informative.

mgtr
12-13-2008, 07:52 AM
I see from the info on D-League team that Markie has grown back to 6'4". Maybe that helps to explain some of his success at Bakersfield.

sagegrouse
12-13-2008, 08:51 AM
I see from the info on D-League team that Markie has grown back to 6'4". Maybe that helps to explain some of his success at Bakersfield.

That was his listed height while on the Warriors as well. You have to understand that a man stands taller in his home state.

Moreover, when I went to the Warriors roster (http://http://www.nba.com/warriors/roster/)just now, Markie was listed. The NBA limit is 15 players and GS lists 16 -- so not sure what is going on. It may be that he would be available to play whenever the team wants. (There was a note above that he would be "available" for the Wednesday game.)

sagegrouse

Carlos
12-13-2008, 11:24 AM
Yahoo Sports is reporting that Markie "will be available" to the Warriors on Wednesday. Scroll down to notes (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap;_ylt=Aq8TLYxQMyMEGUtVRvIhtzO8vLYF?gid=200812 1209) after the Warriors' loss to Houston on Friday.

Whatever is happening, this squib is only barely informative.

Actually it's more clear if you read the sentence before it. CJ Watson is going to miss the game to go to his uncle's funeral so Nelson is going to be activated for that game.

stickdog
12-13-2008, 12:03 PM
The coach of the Warriors, Don Nelson, took a trip to Bakersfield to watch his assigned roster players DeMarcus Nelson and Richard Hendrix perform this Thursday. He came away impressed with Markie's progress and performance.

CJ Watson will be missing the Golden State vs. Indiana this upcoming Wednesday because of a death in the family. DeMarcus Nelson is getting a one game call up for the Indiana game. It will surprise me if DeMarcus does not see major minutes on Wednesday night. In last night's game the Warriors were missing Maggette, Wright and Turiaf and only dressed 10 players. In addition, Don Nelson hates Marcus "Laptop" Williams and Stephen Jackson is playing horribly with a badly sprained hand. With Watson off the roster, Ellis, Jackson and Maggette hurt, Laptop in the doghouse and Crawford playing woeful perimeter defense, the Warriors could desperately use DeMarcus' help.

The reason the Warriors' roster lists 16 players is because teams get a roster exemption for a suspended player. When Ellis returns from his suspension (soon), one current Warrior will have to be waived. Most Warriors observers assumed that player would be Rob Kurz, but some have recently speculated that Marcus Williams will be the player cut.

jv001
12-13-2008, 12:06 PM
While I respect DMark as much as anyone that has worn the Duke uniform, I just don't see how he will make it in the NBA. He just does not have the offensive game to make it. He is not a good ball handler, not a good free throw shooter and is a streaky shooter from 15 feet out. He is however a very good defensive player, but that alone will not get him many mins in the NBA. If JJ cannot make it as most posters believe, then DMark has almost no chance of making it. Best bet is to play in European league.

ice-9
12-13-2008, 12:15 PM
Why be a hater? DeMarc may or may not make it, but if his own alumni don't believe in him then who will?

DeMarc's improvement in terms of skills was limited in college due to injuries. He's a hard worker with NBA-level athleticism and defense, and now that he's healthy I have confidence he can build what he needs to earn a roster spot somewhere. He's already exceeded expectations with the Warriors; here's to hoping he can continue to do so.

jv001
12-13-2008, 12:22 PM
Why be a hater? DeMarc may or may not make it, but if his own alumni don't believe in him then who will?

DeMarc's improvement in terms of skills was limited in college due to injuries. He's a hard worker with NBA-level athleticism and defense, and now that he's healthy I have confidence he can build what he needs to earn a roster spot somewhere. He's already exceeded expectations with the Warriors; here's to hoping he can continue to do so.

I am far from being a DMark hater. Does that mean that everyone who has stated they don't think JJ will make in the NBA is a JJ hater and not a supporter. I don't think so. I hope that I'm wrong about DMark and if I am I will be the first to admit it. I don't see how anyone could hate DMark. He gave it his all at Duke and I respect him very much. Go Duke!

ForeverBlowingBubbles
12-13-2008, 01:18 PM
his PER this season is double Redicks - even though it might be a small sample size. That is also taking into consideration defense doesn't show up to well in the PER which would effectively raise Nelson's value and lower Redick's.

JayZee
12-13-2008, 03:35 PM
Note, I rarely read Duke box scores, much less NBA boxes. Generally, I just go to the DBR and read Jumbo's most recent postings, which brings me to my point about +/- scoring
Looking to see if Markie played for the Warriors last night as I heard he was being activated, I looked at the box. http://stats.sfgate.com/nba/boxscore.asp?gamecode=2008121209&home=9&vis=10
Two things jumped out - 1, that at least the SF Chron is putting in +/- stats into their boxes - and 2, that Shane may have only scored 6 pts but he was +18 in +/-, by far the best on the team...

shadowfax336
12-13-2008, 04:58 PM
He's also plus 11.6 per 48 minutes for the season which leads Houston, and also leads Houston with an 83% winning percentage (percentage of games that he had a positive plus/minus)

CameronBornAndBred
12-13-2008, 11:05 PM
The announcers before tonight Bakersfield game said that Demarcus is leaving Monday for at least one game with the Warriors, but right now it's only expected to be one game. It will be interesting to see if they play him Wednesday. Don Nelson and some of the staff was at the last Bakersfield game watching, which is good for Markie because he played tons that day.

Billy Dat
12-18-2008, 09:37 AM
20 minutes of burn, 1-6 shooting, 2 points. However, as others have noted, he got called up because CJ Watson had to go to a funeral and will likely be back in Bakersfield shortly.

Expanded on the post saying that Nelson was in Bakersfield watching Markie and Richard Hendrix, here are some quotes from the coach:

Q: What's the purpose of your trip to Bakersfield?
A: I just want to make sure (Richard and DeMarcus) know I'm interested. Let them know I'll come down to see them, see how they're doing, if they're working on the things that I've asked them to work on.
Q: Where do you think Hendrix and DeMarcus need to improve their games specifically?
A: I think Hendrix just needs experience in game conditions. DeMarcus is down here to improve his shot and learn some point guard skills. We would hope that Mateen (Cleaves) would help him out with that.

Markie has been tearing it up in the D League, "Nelson, 23, started all nine games for the Jam (8-1) after being assigned on November 14th, and averaged 16.0 points, 4.8 rebounds, 4.0 assists and 2.22 steals in 32.7 minutes per contest in the D-League. At the time of his recall, he led the team in scoring and steals, while ranking second in assists and third in rebounds."

So...he's doing what he has to do and it looks like the coach is paying attention.

Oriole Way
12-18-2008, 09:55 AM
20 minutes of burn, 1-6 shooting, 2 points. However, as others have noted, he got called up because CJ Watson had to go to a funeral and will likely be back in Bakersfield shortly.

Expanded on the post saying that Nelson was in Bakersfield watching Markie and Richard Hendrix, here are some quotes from the coach:

Q: What's the purpose of your trip to Bakersfield?
A: I just want to make sure (Richard and DeMarcus) know I'm interested. Let them know I'll come down to see them, see how they're doing, if they're working on the things that I've asked them to work on.
Q: Where do you think Hendrix and DeMarcus need to improve their games specifically?
A: I think Hendrix just needs experience in game conditions. DeMarcus is down here to improve his shot and learn some point guard skills. We would hope that Mateen (Cleaves) would help him out with that.

Markie has been tearing it up in the D League, "Nelson, 23, started all nine games for the Jam (8-1) after being assigned on November 14th, and averaged 16.0 points, 4.8 rebounds, 4.0 assists and 2.22 steals in 32.7 minutes per contest in the D-League. At the time of his recall, he led the team in scoring and steals, while ranking second in assists and third in rebounds."

So...he's doing what he has to do and it looks like the coach is paying attention.

Wow, I'm impressed Nellie would take the time go to Bakersfield to follow up on two kids who most likely aren't going to be contributing much this season. Hope DeMarcus continues his solid play once he returns from his one game stint with the Warriors.

CameronBornAndBred
12-18-2008, 10:01 AM
Wow, I'm impressed Nellie would take the time go to Bakersfield to follow up on two kids who most likely aren't going to be contributing much this season. Hope DeMarcus continues his solid play once he returns from his one game stint with the Warriors.
His shooting wasn't so hot in his return, but the rest of the team stunk it up too. The high scorer was 11-26, and only 2 people shot 50%.

SilkyJ
12-18-2008, 11:45 AM
Wow, I'm impressed Nellie would take the time go to Bakersfield to follow up on two kids who most likely aren't going to be contributing much this season. Hope DeMarcus continues his solid play once he returns from his one game stint with the Warriors.

Ditto. That's a solid 3-4 hour drive each way. I wonder if he flew down there. Either way its a significant amount of time and effort on his part, and I'm psyched Markie is playing well enough to earn that.

Matches
12-18-2008, 12:44 PM
Seems the Warriors are interested in a deal for Raymond Felton - I really hope Demarcus can avoid being traded to the Bobcats...

Billy Dat
12-18-2008, 04:12 PM
Seems the Warriors are interested in a deal for Raymond Felton - I really hope Demarcus can avoid being traded to the Bobcats...

In his situation, that might be the best thing. Despite what happened in NY, Larry Brown is still a great coach who, despite the rivalry, would likely love a coachable, fundamentally sound K-product. Because the Bobcats stink, he actually might play!

Huh?
12-18-2008, 04:30 PM
I'm sure the Charlotte Tarheels don't want Nelson. Let them continue to suck.

CameronBornAndBred
12-18-2008, 04:34 PM
In his situation, that might be the best thing.
I don't see his "situation" as a negative, far from it. He landed not only with his hometown team, but a team that gave him an incredible chance. His being in the D league is not bad, he is there learning more of the skills required in the NBA, plus getting tons of playing time. Obviously the Warriors have his back, as witnessed by his recent call up. I think he's way better off where is now instead of playing for Larry Brown.

TheDukeCreed
12-21-2008, 06:35 PM
Markie like he is back from the D League, he clocked a minute last night for Golden State.

CameronBornAndBred
12-21-2008, 06:52 PM
Markie like he is back from the D League, he clocked a minute last night for Golden State.
I saw that too. Hopefully if they keep him with the Warriors for the rest of the year he'll get some more minutes. I had understood that they would have him for the one game only while Watson was gone, but CJ was there last night with DeMarcus. Good to see they want him in San Francisco.

yancem
12-22-2008, 09:03 AM
I saw that too. Hopefully if they keep him with the Warriors for the rest of the year he'll get some more minutes. I had understood that they would have him for the one game only while Watson was gone, but CJ was there last night with DeMarcus. Good to see they want him in San Francisco.

I agree. While it is nice to see him called up, if they don't have minutes for him I'd rather he spend more time in the D league. In order for him to make it in the nba, he's will have to develop pg skills. He has a much better chance doing that in game situations than in practice. Hopefully he spend some quality time playing the point in the D league with a few games here and there with the Warriors depending on injuries/schedule. In the end he is a great athlete and hard worker. I think that he a real chance of making and staying on a roster if the Warriors are willing to spend the resources to develop his talents.

SilkyJ
12-22-2008, 02:38 PM
In his situation, that might be the best thing. Despite what happened in NY, Larry Brown is still a great coach who, despite the rivalry, would likely love a coachable, fundamentally sound K-product. Because the Bobcats stink, he actually might play!

He most likely would not play. Larry Brown is notorious for not playing rookies. Its part of his reputation.

Billy Dat
12-22-2008, 05:28 PM
He most likely would not play. Larry Brown is notorious for not playing rookies. Its part of his reputation.

Allow me to cite an N of 1 and say that Brown is playing DJ Augustine 29 mpg. My larger point is that the NBA, like any professional sport, is ruthless. I think that any player would rather be sitting the bench in the L then playing big minutes in the D-League simply because they'd be that much closer to the action - they wouldn't need to be called up, they'd be available immediately. Barring injury, I don't see him making it back now that Ellis is coming back. I just think the ideal situation for him, or any other pro, is to be somewhere that they are in the top 3 of the depth chart at their position and practicing with and traveling with the varsity, not the jv.

yancem
12-22-2008, 06:28 PM
Allow me to cite an N of 1 and say that Brown is playing DJ Augustine 29 mpg. My larger point is that the NBA, like any professional sport, is ruthless. I think that any player would rather be sitting the bench in the L then playing big minutes in the D-League simply because they'd be that much closer to the action - they wouldn't need to be called up, they'd be available immediately. Barring injury, I don't see him making it back now that Ellis is coming back. I just think the ideal situation for him, or any other pro, is to be somewhere that they are in the top 3 of the depth chart at their position and practicing with and traveling with the varsity, not the jv.

That may be a fair assessment in some cases but I disagree in Nelson's. He never played the point in high school or college and it seems that his best chance to make it in the league is at the pg position. So I think that getting real game situational experience, even in the D league, is of great value to him right now. You can't really learn how to run an offense during practice situations and in the nba, one the season starts, most practices are little more than shoot arounds with maybe some scrimmaging or situational practice. the season is too long and the games too frequent to practice like the college teams do.

SilkyJ
12-22-2008, 07:32 PM
Allow me to cite an N of 1 and say that Brown is playing DJ Augustine 29 mpg.

Totally fair, though I would call it an outlier. The difference here may be that bobcats are bad to really bad and some of Brown's other teams were at least decent so the opportunity for rookies was not as large as it is on this team. Nonetheless, I'll stick by statement that his reputation is that he doesn't like to play rookies. Darko comes to mind as does Mehmet Okur during his time in Detroit and David Lee in NYC...

CameronBornAndBred
12-23-2008, 01:25 PM
DeMarcus got 9 minutes last night, which was 2 more minutes than JJ (same game). However, JJ scored 6 pts, and Markie none.

jv001
12-23-2008, 01:43 PM
DeMarcus got 9 minutes last night, which was 2 more minutes than JJ (same game). However, JJ scored 6 pts, and Markie none.

The difference: JJ shot is pure and quick and D-Mark's shot is awkard and slow. JJ's just in a slump. It's not mechanics. D-Mark is a much better defender and that's where his mins will come from until he shoots the ball better. Maybe a few Chip England(sp) lessons would help. Go Duke!

ricks68
12-24-2008, 02:59 AM
Does anyone have any info on Darius Nelson, Markie's brother mentioned at the end of the article about his call-up? It says he is a soph and averaging 23.5 pts a game in some kind of league. Watzone? Anyone?

ricks

Jaymf7
12-24-2008, 11:15 AM
I was at the Heat game vs Golden State last night. Markie played quite a bit, matched up against Wade. Wade absolutely torched him time and again. Pretty remarkable given the fact that my understanding is that Markie is in the league as a defensive specialist. I guess no one can guard Wade when he is on, but it was ridiculous how easily he got to the rim. Then again, GS is not known for its team defense either.

Here's wishing Markie better luck for the rest of this call-up stint.

Oriole Way
12-24-2008, 11:30 AM
I was at the Heat game vs Golden State last night. Markie played quite a bit, matched up against Wade. Wade absolutely torched him time and again. Pretty remarkable given the fact that my understanding is that Markie is in the league as a defensive specialist. I guess no one can guard Wade when he is on, but it was ridiculous how easily he got to the rim. Then again, GS is not known for its team defense either.

Here's wishing Markie better luck for the rest of this call-up stint.

Are you serious? Wade is easily one of the best players in the world at getting any shot he wants when he is "on," and even when he's not. As you pointed out, GS is the worst defensive team in the league, so it's not like they're going to provide any help defense.

Oriole Way
12-24-2008, 11:31 AM
Does anyone have any info on Darius Nelson, Markie's brother mentioned at the end of the article about his call-up? It says he is a soph and averaging 23.5 pts a game in some kind of league. Watzone? Anyone?

ricks

I was under the impression that his brother was in high school. Is there a second brother I didn't know about?

Indoor66
12-24-2008, 12:12 PM
I was at the Heat game vs Golden State last night. Markie played quite a bit, matched up against Wade. Wade absolutely torched him time and again. Pretty remarkable given the fact that my understanding is that Markie is in the league as a defensive specialist. I guess no one can guard Wade when he is on, but it was ridiculous how easily he got to the rim. Then again, GS is not known for its team defense either.

Here's wishing Markie better luck for the rest of this call-up stint.

I watched the game and thought that Wade "beat" Markie, many times, because teammates failed to move, switch or help. Markie was left out to dry. No one can handle Wade alone. Nobody. It has to be a help effort.

CameronBornAndBred
12-24-2008, 02:12 PM
I'm pretty sure DeMarcus didn't get 25 minutes because he was playing bad D. Like the previous poster said, Wade is one of those who is unstoppable, like Kobe. Saw he was 1-6 for shooting, but 4-4 from the line, so I'm assuming he was taking some pretty well contested shots.

Jaymf7
12-26-2008, 09:49 AM
I wasn't intending to take a shot at Markie. I agree that the observation I shared likely spoke more to Wade's talent and the lack of team D. Nevertheless, it was a bit hard to watch as a Nelson supporter. As for his stats, he played 25 minutes in large part because GS was without 3 perimeter key players (Maggette, Crawford, and Jackson). That is why he was called up. One of his trips to the line was on a breakaway dunk attempt. The other was on an awkward drive. The crowd was pretty rowdy and I was impressed that he nailed all 4 (not a huge accomplishment, but better than he often fared at Duke).

juise
12-26-2008, 11:59 AM
Does anyone have any info on Darius Nelson, Markie's brother mentioned at the end of the article about his call-up? It says he is a soph and averaging 23.5 pts a game in some kind of league. Watzone? Anyone?

The Delta River league. (http://www.egcitizen.com/articles/2008/12/23/sports/doc495111b422d5c935484256.txt)

Here's a few words (http://www.sacbee.com/martymac/story/1472369.html) about his game and some reactions to his scouting reports. The report quoted by this writer was on ESPN.com, so I'm assuming that what's being referenced.

ricks68
12-26-2008, 12:31 PM
The Delta River league. (http://www.egcitizen.com/articles/2008/12/23/sports/doc495111b422d5c935484256.txt)

Here's a few words (http://www.sacbee.com/martymac/story/1472369.html) about his game and some reactions to his scouting reports. The report quoted by this writer was on ESPN.com, so I'm assuming that what's being referenced.

Thanks, Juise. Just another example why DBR folks are the best.:)

ricks

ricks68
12-26-2008, 12:42 PM
So, after 10 years and 129 posts since the changeover in '07, I finally make it to "Shavlik Randolph". Just how, exactly, does that come about? Is there a certain number of posts to qualify, or what? And what is to come, and how and when? Does anyone out there know?:confused:

ricks

ricks68
12-26-2008, 12:48 PM
Well, that was short lived. I just got demoted back to "Bench Warmer". I guess someone thought Shav was no longer injured and could play again, and I was chosen by the powers at DBR to come along for the ride. Sigh.:( Oh well. Maybe someday..................

ricks

OZZIE4DUKE
12-26-2008, 01:19 PM
So, after 10 years and 129 posts since the changeover in '07, I finally make it to "Shavlik Randolph". Just how, exactly, does that come about? Is there a certain number of posts to qualify, or what? And what is to come, and how and when? Does anyone out there know?:confused:

ricks

As you reach milestone numbers for the team or a player (career points, rebounds, assists, etc.) you achieve that status. 129 was probably the number of fouls called on Shav before he played any minutes in a game his last year :D Just kidding, Shav, just kidding.

1991, 1992 and 2001 earn you NCAA Champions status. Many years earn you ACC Champs! status.

Make one more post, and you've passed that milestone and your status reverts.

juise
12-26-2008, 01:48 PM
As you reach milestone numbers for the team or a player (career points, rebounds, assists, etc.) you achieve that status. 129 was probably the number of fouls called on Shav before he played any minutes in a game his last year :D Just kidding, Shav, just kidding.

I was curious, so I looked it up (http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/players/statlines.php?playerid=298). As I suspected, it was his career blocked shots total.

ricks68
12-26-2008, 05:14 PM
Wow! I'm now even more impressed with DBR. Neat stuff. Thanks for the info. Might have a chance at seeing you guys again by the bathroom on the second floor concourse at halftime of the NC State game this year, Oz.

ricks

Carlos
12-27-2008, 10:53 AM
The Delta River league. (http://www.egcitizen.com/articles/2008/12/23/sports/doc495111b422d5c935484256.txt)

Here's a few words (http://www.sacbee.com/martymac/story/1472369.html) about his game and some reactions to his scouting reports. The report quoted by this writer was on ESPN.com, so I'm assuming that what's being referenced.

Darius Nelson is at this point a borderline top 100 guy who is most often compared with former UCLA player Kris Johnson when people talk about maximum potential. As the second link from juise notes, many people are concerned about the fact that he plays a power game and is not a particularly explosive player which would be OK if we were talking about a guy who is 6-9. But a guy who is 6-6, relatively earthbound, and scores a lot of points in HS by overpowering other guys raises a lot of questions about how well he would do at a major college level. There are guys who pull it off like Johnson and Adrian Dantley as referenced in the article, but many guys struggle with the transition.

The guy who is more often considered the better prospect in the Nelson family tree is their cousin Ramon Eaton who plays on the same HS team as Darius. Eaton's 6-8 and pretty thin right now but is projected at either forward spot on the next level. Scout has him as a top 4-star player ahd right now he's averaging around a double-double.

heyman25
12-29-2008, 02:18 AM
At the end of a Laker rout of Golden state DeMarcus made a steal and a length of the court layup at Staples.Stu Lantz and the other Laker announcer hardly mentioned names of the Golden state Players in the game. After the play they mentioned he had held the CA HS scoring record and played at Duke on the FSN West station earlier tonite.

SilkyJ
12-29-2008, 12:16 PM
Darius Nelson is at this point a borderline top 100 guy who is most often compared with former UCLA player Kris Johnson when people talk about maximum potential. As the second link from juise notes, many people are concerned about the fact that he plays a power game and is not a particularly explosive player which would be OK if we were talking about a guy who is 6-9. But a guy who is 6-6, relatively earthbound, and scores a lot of points in HS by overpowering other guys raises a lot of questions about how well he would do at a major college level. There are guys who pull it off like Johnson and Adrian Dantley as referenced in the article, but many guys struggle with the transition.


Sounds kind of like Alando Tucker formerly of Wisconsin when discussing his college game vs. pro-potential. A PF stuck in a SG's body...

jimsumner
12-29-2008, 01:34 PM
I'll take a college Alando Tucker.

SilkyJ
12-30-2008, 12:40 AM
on a related note looks like demarc didnt see any action tonight, so dont be surprised if he's back in the d-league soon, which is a) expected and b) probably for the best as he'll get gametime to work on his skills, just as he had been doing.

JayZee
12-31-2008, 12:15 AM
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/12/24/SPEP14U05P.DTL

Looks like he might stick for the season after a short stint in the D League...

mgtr
12-31-2008, 12:38 AM
This is excellent! See, kiddies, hard work does pay off.

RainingThrees
01-05-2009, 07:38 PM
http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/archives/018278.html

sad news. All the best and good luck Demarc.

dukelifer
01-05-2009, 08:43 PM
http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/archives/018278.html

sad news. All the best and good luck Demarc.

There are a lot of really good players who have never played a minute in the NBA. Demarcus got his shot - made a little history and now needs to work on his game. He will and will likely find a way back- but the journey continues.

_Gary
01-05-2009, 09:16 PM
Wow! That is very sad news. What a horrible year it's been for Dukie's in the NBA. Other than Chris's play in New York, we've really been snake bit this year. Right now we have Battier, Brand, Boozer, Dunleavy, Deng and I believe Maggette out with injuries, many of which are significant. Then we've got guys like JJ, Shel and several others who are languishing on the bench. This has really turned into a nightmare season for our players in the NBA. Hope the second half of the season proves to be better for all of them.

OZZIE4DUKE
01-05-2009, 11:37 PM
http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/archives/018278.html

sad news. All the best and good luck Demarc.

I disagree with the choice of words here, and I'm not tying to nitpick. It is not sad news, but it is bad news, or disappointing news. Sad news would be that he a career threatening injury, or worse, or that he had a family member sick or deceased.

mgtr
01-05-2009, 11:47 PM
I disagree with the choice of words here, and I'm not tying to nitpick. It is not sad news, but it is bad news, or disappointing news. Sad news would be that he a career threatening injury, or worse, or that he had a family member sick or deceased.

Excellent point. Markie is not out of basketball, just out of the league. Since he was only suited to play a role for which he has little prep, that doesn't surprise me much. So, he will go to Italy or Russia or somewhere and play (and be a star!). Not the end of the world. Not cancer or worse. And, after a couple years, he may surface again in the NBA
From his standpoint, I guess he would rather be playing ball in Timbuktu (wherever that is), than holding down a 9 to 5 or selling insurance. I know that I would if I could (well, back in the day).

RainingThrees
01-05-2009, 11:56 PM
I See what you guys are saying but there is a sad tone though. This was his home town team. He was close to his family and friends and living his dream in the NBA. Now if he goes to Europe there will be long periods of time not seeing family or friends or even the USA. I know I would be sad to leave this country. just my opinion.

Fish80
01-06-2009, 08:48 AM
http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/archives/018278.html


Cutting D-Marc doesn't make much sense to me. Why not send him back to the Bakersfield Jam? Anybody have inside info?

Indoor66
01-06-2009, 09:14 AM
Cutting D-Marc doesn't make much sense to me. Why not send him back to the Bakersfield Jam? Anybody have inside info?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

jv001
01-06-2009, 09:26 AM
I guess Don Nelson did not like D-Mark as much as he said. We all know pro sports is just a business and no loyalty is involved. Atleast not from the owners, managers, coaches, etc. I really appreciate D-Mark. What a great young man. One that upholds the Duke University tradition. I wish you well young man in what ever you do. I know you will give it all you have. God Bless you and Go Duke!

OZZIE4DUKE
01-06-2009, 09:30 AM
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/12/24/SPEP14U05P.DTL

Looks like he might stick for the season after a short stint in the D League...

So after this news came out, then they decide to cut him? I guess the reporter didn't know what he was talking about. Typical.

DukieInBrasil
01-06-2009, 09:42 AM
i also donīt get why they waived him, after coach Nel talked so highly of him, rather than sending him to D-League. He was on the active roster as of Monday night.
as for the injury bug biting former Dukies, Magette is back and had a very nice first game back. Dunleavy is on the verge of coming back. Does anybody have word on Battierīs recent no-shows? The espn site says something about a sore foot, anything else to this?
One other bright spot for former Dukies in the NBA is Dhantay Jones, who is starting for the very good Nuggets. ThoīMcRoberts got off to a slow start in the NBA, he seems to be getting more PT from the Pacers lately. He seems to be showing a bit of a defensive edge. He doesnīt play much but he is getting in games on a regular basis.

_Gary
01-06-2009, 10:28 AM
One other bright spot for former Dukies in the NBA is Dhantay Jones, who is starting for the very good Nuggets.

Ah, there you go. I knew there was someone I was missing. Dhantay is doing a great job with Denver and I'm glad for him. Having said all that, it has been a horrible year for big injuries to Dukies in the NBA. No two ways about it.

Billy Dat
01-06-2009, 02:57 PM
Here's something I picked up from the thread on Shaun Livingston being cut by the Heat:

"With all NBA contracts becoming guaranteed for the season by week's end, the Heat had to make a decision on Livingston in advance of its upcoming seven-game trip. Livingston's contract also called for a partial contract guarantee for next season, at the Heat's option."

Sounds like that's what happened to Markie.

Clipsfan
01-06-2009, 03:18 PM
Here's something I picked up from the thread on Shaun Livingston being cut by the Heat:

"With all NBA contracts becoming guaranteed for the season by week's end, the Heat had to make a decision on Livingston in advance of its upcoming seven-game trip. Livingston's contract also called for a partial contract guarantee for next season, at the Heat's option."

Sounds like that's what happened to Markie.

That makes sense - I read the two articles back to back and found it strange that the first, although a few days older, described Markie as fairly confident that he was going to stick around while the second just announced that he was waived. He may be able to get a couple 10 day contracts later this season.

OZZIE4DUKE
01-06-2009, 04:19 PM
Having said all that, it has been a horrible year for big injuries to Dukies in the NBA. No two ways about it.

I'd much rather our "NBA pro's" had the injury bug than our current players. Far less impact to what is important - Duke!

jv001
01-06-2009, 04:22 PM
I'd much rather our "NBA pro's" had the injury bug than our current players. Far less impact to what is important - Duke!

Now that's way more important. Good thinking Ozzie..Go Duke!

_Gary
01-06-2009, 04:58 PM
I'd much rather our "NBA pro's" had the injury bug than our current players. Far less impact to what is important - Duke!

I'm certainly on board with that, Ozzie. :)

Go Duke!!!