It's Over

[MChambers]

Gary Parrish says UNC can have a perfect season:

http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/11049566

Of course, he hedges by saying he doesn't think it will happen. Just happened to write an article on it, that's all. (Also creates a new word, "impactful", but I digress.)

[kinghoops]

Gary Parrish says UNC can have a perfect season:

http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/11049566

Of course, he hedges by saying he doesn't think it will happen. Just happened to write an article on it, that's all. (Also creates a new word, "impactful", but I digress.)

well we will just have to see, but as i type this on october 20th, there is no way, and i mean no way, do the holes go undefeated! you read it here first, and you can take that to the bank. im even more confident that they will lose more than the two regular season games than they lost last year....

thoughts???

[RelativeWays]

Perfect seasons are bad for basketball teams, go ask UNLV. UNC shouldn't concern itself with going undefeated, they should only care about winning a championship.

but......:D if they do start entertaining that idea...I know a team (and you guys do too) that will ambush them :eek:

[MChambers]

well we will just have to see, but as i type this on october 20th, there is no way, and i mean no way, do the holes go undefeated! you read it here first, and you can take that to the bank. im even more confident that they will lose more than the two regular season games than they lost last year....

thoughts???

I really didn't mean to suggest you should take Mr. Parrish seriously.

[COYS]

well we will just have to see, but as i type this on october 20th, there is no way, and i mean no way, do the holes go undefeated! you read it here first, and you can take that to the bank. im even more confident that they will lose more than the two regular season games than they lost last year....

thoughts???

Ok, UNC has a very good team this year, but unless some of their players step up in a BIG way, they have something that is far from a great team. I mean, compare their current team to their 2005 national championship team. Felton>Lawson, McCants>Ellington, May>Hansbrough (this might be controversial, but I don't think so. Hansbrough contributes almost nothing on defense and can be neutralized against strong, tall, athletic big guys . . . May could rebound better, play better defense, and played well against tough competition). Plus, they had Marvin Williams in '04-'05. Now, I guess it's possible the frosh could be better than expected, but we'll see. But even as UNC teams go, this incarnation is nowhere near the best. Considering going undefeated hasn't been done in over three decades, I just don't see how UNC's team this year has any better than a .01% chance of actually going undefeated.

[Wander]

Duke football reference!

[kinghoops]

Ok, UNC has a very good team this year, but unless some of their players step up in a BIG way, they have something that is far from a great team. I mean, compare their current team to their 2005 national championship team. Felton>Lawson, McCants>Ellington, May>Hansbrough (this might be controversial, but I don't think so. Hansbrough contributes almost nothing on defense and can be neutralized against strong, tall, athletic big guys . . . May could rebound better, play better defense, and played well against tough competition). Plus, they had Marvin Williams in '04-'05. Now, I guess it's possible the frosh could be better than expected, but we'll see. But even as UNC teams go, this incarnation is nowhere near the best. Considering going undefeated hasn't been done in over three decades, I just don't see how UNC's team this year has any better than a .01% chance of actually going undefeated.

and i will agree with you, unc will have a very good team, i still think duke will beat them at least once, and im sure they will lose at least two other conference games. there is only one basketball to play with and i think ego will clash at some point, and gotta remember, they aint exactly tough as nails on the defensive end

[brevity]

(Also creates a new word, "impactful", but I digress.)

Sorry. He's not that original (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=impactful).

Throw in a healthy Marcus Ginyard at the beginning of the season and I still don't think UNC will go undefeated or wire-to-wire #1 in the regular season.

Here's their schedule (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/teams/schedule?teamId=153). Possible road pitfalls: at Michigan State (12/3), at Nevada (12/31), at Wake Forest (1/11), at NC State (1/31), at Duke and Miami (2/11 and 2/15), at Maryland (2/21). Those are just the road challenges; they could still lose at home.

Now, Nevada is short on personnel (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3647832) this season, but it's New Year's Eve and one of those late-night games (10:05pm EDT) that casual fans won't even hear about until the following morning. Not quite a recipe for disaster, but less than ideal.

Finally, their only Big East exposure is a home game against Rutgers. I think they will be ill-prepared for the likes of Connecticut, Notre Dame, Louisville, or Pitt in the postseason, and (as with any title contender) they'll almost certainly face at least one of those teams.

[bradjenk]

Ok, UNC has a very good team this year, but unless some of their players step up in a BIG way, they have something that is far from a great team. I mean, compare their current team to their 2005 national championship team. Felton>Lawson, McCants>Ellington, May>Hansbrough (this might be controversial, but I don't think so. Hansbrough contributes almost nothing on defense and can be neutralized against strong, tall, athletic big guys . . . May could rebound better, play better defense, and played well against tough competition). Plus, they had Marvin Williams in '04-'05. Now, I guess it's possible the frosh could be better than expected, but we'll see. But even as UNC teams go, this incarnation is nowhere near the best. Considering going undefeated hasn't been done in over three decades, I just don't see how UNC's team this year has any better than a .01% chance of actually going undefeated.

I agree with most of your observations, but I have a couple of points of difference. I agree that during the last 2 months of the 2005 season, May played at a higher level than Hansbrough probably ever will. But to say Hansbrough doesn't contribute much on defense is not true in my opinion. He doesn't block shots but he draws charges (I don't think May did either) and is a great defensive rebounder (so was May). I agree with the other matchup advantages you made but you neglected to go deeper where Green, Ginyard, and Frasor are a clear upgrade over Manuel & Scott. And while I agree that the 2005 team was better than this one is, I don't know that any team will have to be to win it all this year. With no team the caliber of last year's 2 finalists, I think it's wide open and I don't think it's on paper that will be UNC's downfall. I just don't think they're a tough enough team. They get all their team toughness from one player and that won't be enough.

[JasonEvans]

Maybe, if Carolina played in a mid-major conference, this might be possible like St. Joe's a few years ago or the UNLV club we knocked off. There was a Temple team a few years back that probably had a shot at being undefeated. I suppose it could have maybe happened for UMass back in the day and maybe even for one of the modern Memphis teams if the cards fell just right for them.

But the notion that any major conference team -- playing in a strong league like the ACC, SEC, Big East, or Pac Ten -- could go unbeaten is pretty much laughable.

I want to add one more thing. I know NBA talent and NCAA success are not necessarily related, but this Carolina team may have less top-level NBA talent than any of the leading contenders for the NCAA crown. Unless one of the young, raw big men develops into a lottery pick, there is not a single lottery pick on the team. Everyone loves to talk about how amazing it is that Lawson, Ellington, Greene, and Hansbo came back to school (and it is unusual), but we are talking about a bunch of guys who were projected to go either late in the first or in the 2nd round (or perhaps not drafted at all). It is not like any of these guys turned down lottery money.

Make no mistake, Carolina is darn good and deserves to be the national title favorite, but the notion that they are some truly special club that is sooo much better than everyone else seems to be a bit of hyperbole to me.

--Jason "and I know hyperbole better than anyone in the world" Evans

[Wander]

But the notion that any major conference team -- playing in a strong league like the ACC, SEC, Big East, or Pac Ten -- could go unbeaten is pretty much laughable.


Illinois came very, very, very close recently. Close enough to prove it's possible.

[JasonEvans]

Illinois came very, very, very close recently. Close enough to prove it's possible.

They lost twice. That ain't all that close. 1992 and 1999 Duke did that. Memphis did that last year. 1997 Kansas and 2004 St. Joe's did that too.

Yawn. Wake me when you make it to the NCAA tourney undefeated... that has not been done (I think) since 1991.

--Jason "it ain't happening for Carolina this year" Evans

[BD80]

In my vision of a perfect season, unc loses four times ...

[msdukie]

In my vision of a perfect season, unc loses four times ...

Really? In my vision of a perfect season, UNC loses every game it plays by a billion points. OK, it actually loses to Duke 3 times by 10 billion points each.

[Edouble]

Gary Parrish says UNC can have a perfect season:

http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/11049566

Of course, he hedges by saying he doesn't think it will happen. Just happened to write an article on it, that's all. (Also creates a new word, "impactful", but I digress.)

I can't believe he said "impactful".

The article is stupid. He talks about how UNC almost went undefeated last year b/c their two losses were close. Well, what if they had lost the close games that they won? You could make an argument that they almost lost twice as many games, if you want to reverse the argument and say that they barely won the close games that they did.

[CameronCrazy'11]

I can't believe he said "impactful".

The article is stupid. He talks about how UNC almost went undefeated last year b/c their two losses were close. Well, what if they had lost the close games that they won? You could make an argument that they almost lost twice as many games, if you want to reverse the argument and say that they barely won the close games that they did.

This is what people miss. UNC got lucky quite a lot last year. If a few very key shots had bounced out, they could have easily lost 6 or 7 in the regular season. Their fans eagerly forget just how many 1 point wins or that they were down 20 to Boston College before they were ever down 29 to Kansas. Their out of conference schedule was laughable for a national-title contender, and covered up some of the serious weaknesses they had.

I'm not trying to say they didn't earn their success, because they were clearly a very good team. When they were in their game, they played as well as anybody. But just like Duke, they had some weaknesses at the end of last year that they're going to have to sort out.

And going undefeated in this ACC would be nothing short of a miracle. UNC's just not that good.

[BD80]

Really? In my vision of a perfect season, UNC loses every game it plays by a billion points. OK, it actually loses to Duke 3 times by 10 billion points each.

There would be something special about going undefeated and having unc go undefeated except for losing to us at every possible occasion. You can have each of those games be a blow-out. Even have Czyz score 40 off the bench because we don't play the starters in the second half so we don't "run up" the score. But it would be so great to have carolinians try to boast of a great season - Final Four, only four loses - when they got beat down by Duke four times and Duke was an undefeated National Champion.

Only slightly less pleasing would be a season in which Carolina gets blown out at home by the Pen Quakers and the season goes downhill from there. Somewhere around Christmas, hans and Dancin' Danny could come to blows during a game when hans gyrates along the sideline and collides with Danny on the bench doing a special happy dance. Oh hell, let's have that turn into a bench-clearing brawl with Roy wrapped around hans' ankle as hans throttles Zeller to end the high-pitched screaming, and with Ellington and Lawson slapping each other as they argue about who will get drafted higher in the second round.

[COYS]

I agree with most of your observations, but I have a couple of points of difference. I agree that during the last 2 months of the 2005 season, May played at a higher level than Hansbrough probably ever will. But to say Hansbrough doesn't contribute much on defense is not true in my opinion. He doesn't block shots but he draws charges (I don't think May did either) and is a great defensive rebounder (so was May). I agree with the other matchup advantages you made but you neglected to go deeper where Green, Ginyard, and Frasor are a clear upgrade over Manuel & Scott. And while I agree that the 2005 team was better than this one is, I don't know that any team will have to be to win it all this year. With no team the caliber of last year's 2 finalists, I think it's wide open and I don't think it's on paper that will be UNC's downfall. I just don't think they're a tough enough team. They get all their team toughness from one player and that won't be enough.

I was pointing out that for UNC to actually go undefeated, they would have to have a better team than the one they have. I agree that Green and Ginyard are better than Manuel and Scott but we'll have to see how Frasor recovers from a serious knee injury. Overall though, as you say, the '05 team was definitely a bit better and while no team needs to be that good to win it all this year, they probably do need to be that good to run the table.

[hurleyfor3]

Really? In my vision of a perfect season, UNC loses every game it plays by a billion points. OK, it actually loses to Duke 3 times by 10 billion points each.

In mine, unc plays us only three times but somehow manages to go 0-4.

But not this year. Unc is the best most amazing awesomest unbelievable team ever. In the history of organized sport. They should win every game they play by like 70 points. Except when they play us, then they should win by 80. They would easily wipe the floor with the '92 Dream Team, Zamboni the ice with the 1980 U.S. Olympic hockey team and rake the sandtraps at Augusta with Tiger Woods. They should go undefeated, untied and unscored upon this year. Anything less would be more devastating than the 2007 New England Patriots multiplied by the 2003 Cubs, raised to the power of Arazi and wrapped up in a bowtie with unc's 1977, 1984, 1987, 1991, 1994 and 1998 teams.

[davekay1971]

In mine, unc plays us only three times but somehow manages to go 0-4.

But not this year. Unc is the best most amazing awesomest unbelievable team ever. In the history of organized sport. They should win every game they play by like 70 points. Except when they play us, then they should win by 80. They would easily wipe the floor with the '92 Dream Team, Zamboni the ice with the 1980 U.S. Olympic hockey team and rake the sandtraps at Augusta with Tiger Woods. They should go undefeated, untied and unscored upon this year. Anything less would be more devastating than the 2007 New England Patriots multiplied by the 2003 Cubs, raised to the power of Arazi and wrapped up in a bowtie with unc's 1977, 1984, 1987, 1991, 1994 and 1998 teams.

What?! I thought UNC had already gone undefeated and won the title this year! From reading the national media and listening to the 'Holes fans around here, I thought everyone had just conceded the whole shooting match to the mighty Pastel Blues. You mean we're still going to play the season? Wow.

No way the 'Holes go undefeated. Despite Hansbrough averaging 10 points per game from the court and 14 ppg from the charity stripe, the 'Holes will suffer conference losses to Wake, Duke, and...drum roll...Clemson (who will get of the Chapel Hill schnide at looooong last). Come NCAA tourney time, they'll get a first weekend in Greensboro, then start struggling as soon as they set foot outside of North Carolina, culminating in another embarrassing exit at the hands of a yet to be determined team with athletic inside guys who are sick to death of hearing about the mighty Psycho T...again.

BTW, my perfect season: Tarholes do meet us 4 times, the last one being in the NCAA championship game, and we win all four...the last in a thorough I'm a real wanker for saying thisI'm a real wanker for saying thisI'm a real wanker for saying thisI'm a real wanker for saying thisI'm a real wanker for saying this-kicking featuring Singler pulling Hansbrough away from the low post and repeatedly beating him like a rented mule.

[davekay1971]

BTW, my perfect season: Tarholes do meet us 4 times, the last one being in the NCAA championship game, and we win all four...the last in a thorough I'm a real wanker for saying thisI'm a real wanker for saying thisI'm a real wanker for saying thisI'm a real wanker for saying thisI'm a real wanker for saying this-kicking featuring Singler pulling Hansbrough away from the low post and repeatedly beating him like a rented mule.

To clarify - "I'm a real wanker for saying thisI'm a real wanker for saying thisI'm a real wanker for saying thisI'm a real wanker for saying thisI'm a real wanker for saying this" is DBR-ese for a slang word commonly referring to a donkey (no political implications intended), a tush, or a moderator who thinks the word written is too naughty for this board.

[Diddy]

If you guys read the rest of what Parrish wrote, you guys come off souning like jack rear ends.

He never says they will. He just says that it is POSSIBLE. And it is possible. For anyone to say it is impossible is delusional.

Jason says "the ACC" like it is a strong conference. But it isn't. There is one great team (UNC) and maybe three good teams in Duke, Wake, and Miami. Duke is a rivalry game, so it is never a gimmee, but they match up very well with Duke. There is no position where Duke clearly has an edge, while UNC is probably head and shoulders better in the post, and maybe at PG.

It is certainly possible that Duke improves in these areas. There is clearly the potential to close those gaps. But it is only potential. UNC has proven parts accross the board, and their potential is all wrapped up in Freshman who were McDs AAs last year.

UNC could certainly lose to Miami and Wake, as those teams have the talent. But if UNC plays close to an A game, they can't lose to either team. And the sad fact is that UNC can probably win every other ACC game with a B or even C effort.

As for NBA players at UNC:

Handbag, Lawson, and Ellington will play in the NBA. Maybe not superstars, but they will play. Those are guarantees. Ginyard and Green will very probably make a team, and if they don't they will play a lot oversees.

Handbag's sidekick in the post has at least an even shot of making the league, and the two frosh posts will probably be there in a few years.

That is 3 certainties, 2-3 highly probables, and 2-3 probable NBA players.

Right now Duke has 2 certainties, and 3 probables.

I grant that UNC doesn't have a future all star, but I don't see a single ACC player that screams NBA superstar.

Parrish included a whole section about delusional, cry-baby homers and what they would argue to say that UNC will not go undefeated. All of which points you people hit nicely. He didn't say UNC would go undefeated. He just said they could. And they could. They are far and away the most talented team in the nation, and there is a good argument that the difference in their talent and the next most talented team is greater than any such difference going back to UNLV in 1991. To pretend otherwise reeks of blind, willful, homerism.

UNC is a great team. It will take a tremendous effort to beat theam. We can do it. But there is no guarantee that we will.

[Edouble]

There is no position where Duke clearly has an edge,

UNC is a great team. It will take a tremendous effort to beat theam. We can do it. But there is no guarantee that we will.

We clearly have an edge at the power forward position. At this point in the season, that could be called clear.

I also think we have an advantage at the 2 and 3 spots. Our bench could turn out to be better as well.

We are also a better overall defensive team. It will also take a tremendous effort to beat us.

[dukeENG2003]

I take issue with the comment that UNC is "far and away the most talented" also. They are not. Deep maybe, but there are plenty of other very talented teams in the country. Duke, Louisville, UCLA, Texas, Notre Damen, UConn, Tennessee. . . There are plenty more teams that have a LOT of talent and depth like the heels, and some of them actually play defense. . .

As far as positions where we clearly have the edge, I'd say whatever position you put Singler at, we've got the edge, unless you match him against Hansbrough. I also like G against whoever you match him up against (Ellington or Green/Ginyard, its not even close). And of course, theres the coach. . .

[ACCBBallFan]

Another case of don't believe everything the pollsters spout, tying to sway the result.

[davekay1971]

I take issue with the comment that UNC is "far and away the most talented" also. They are not. Deep maybe, but there are plenty of other very talented teams in the country. Duke, Louisville, UCLA, Texas, Notre Damen, UConn, Tennessee. . . There are plenty more teams that have a LOT of talent and depth like the heels, and some of them actually play defense. . .

As far as positions where we clearly have the edge, I'd say whatever position you put Singler at, we've got the edge, unless you match him against Hansbrough. I also like G against whoever you match him up against (Ellington or Green/Ginyard, its not even close). And of course, theres the coach. . .

Excellent points, all.

Each UNC player has weaknesses, and, as a team, there is a glaring weakness...

Hansbrough was exposed last season as a poor post defender. He simply does not control the lane. He is an excellent low post scorer. He's a solid free throw shooter which is magnified in importance when he plays in the ACC, particularly in the Dean Dome, if you know what I mean. He's a PHENOMENAL rebounder, especially when allowed to build a campfire and roast marshmallows in the paint, and scale the backs of opposing rebounders. But the post defense is weak. Granted, he's obviously a better 5 than Zoubs or Plumlee right now. But Singler's got skills Hansbrough can't dream of - call it a wash - they're too different to really compare.

Ellington is a sweet spot up shooter, a mediocre defender, and hasn't shown the ability to consistently create his own shot. I'll take Jon and Gerald over him any day.

Green, Ginyard, etc - role players...all capable, but they're not going to scare anyone. I'll take our bench over them.

Lawson is the one guy who's game I have trouble poking holes in. Good ballhandler, creates shots for his teammates, particularly when he penetrates, decent shooter, solid defender, capable of driving under the influence. All around solid performer. Probably gets the edge over Greg or Nolan right now.

UNC's weakness is that they only play defense in spots, and they can get rattled, particularly when away from the home court and home refs. That's a coaching issue, and Roy, to date, has come up short with this bunch.

Other teams, including Duke, have the talent to match up. Could UNC go undefeated? Sure, but the odds are against them. And the way they are being handed the championship by the media as if it's already done...there's a lot of basketball to play between now and cutting down the nets in Detroit.