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tux
03-28-2007, 09:00 AM
Not trying to be negative, but I'm curious about alum/fan support for the AD.

jjasper0729
03-28-2007, 09:02 AM
never thought I'd say this, since I have known him for over 15 years, but if he lets coach G walk without putting up any kind of fight PUBLICALLY, then he needs to go.

TheDuke11
03-28-2007, 09:03 AM
is Mike Krzyzewski going to come to the aid of coach G at all?

dukeENG2003
03-28-2007, 09:05 AM
maybe we should give him a chance before we hang him out to dry? Should we have replaced him when everyone was sure Coach K was going to take over the Lakers?

jjasper0729
03-28-2007, 09:07 AM
i did say that if he lets her walk without a public fight. His track record with coaches he's had to hire/fire hasn't been that good when you add up the records.

Ima Facultiwyfe
03-28-2007, 09:32 AM
We've heard examples of reasons why folks vote "yes" to fire Alleva. I'd be interested to hear the reasons for the "no" votes in the poll.

I supported his hiring at the time because I felt it fair to give a shot to an inside guy who had been loyal. He had been hired by Butters and many thought he had been instrumental in Butters' success..no prob there..and he was supported by Krzyzewski. No prob there either.

But, now I can't see much of anything positive he's done with the job. I remember Nan saying he "lacked vision". Looks like she was right.

Love, Ima

JStuart
03-28-2007, 09:57 AM
Alleva is making Baddour over at UNC look brilliant; even my UNC friends think that Baddour is the poster child for incompetent AD's.

TheDuke11
03-28-2007, 10:00 AM
he cant be that incopentant.
roy williams
silvia hatchell
butch davis

throatybeard
03-28-2007, 10:07 AM
he cant be that incompetent.
roy williams
silvia hatchell
butch davis

Right, but there was a time when that was

Matt Doherty (having swung and missed on Roy)
Sylvia Hatchell (hired 11 or 12 years before Baddour became AD)
Torbush/Bunting

I think some of them are still mad about that.

xenic
03-28-2007, 10:23 AM
never thought I'd say this, since I have known him for over 15 years, but if he lets coach G walk without putting up any kind of fight PUBLICALLY, then he needs to go.


I've been saying this since he was hired, since I've known him for over 15 years. He's not the right man for the job. That being said, if he survived the drunken boating accident in the middle of an enormous scandal, I don't know why foolishly letting Coach G go would be enough to get rid of him.

jjasper0729
03-28-2007, 10:47 AM
I've been saying this since he was hired, since I've known him for over 15 years. He's not the right man for the job. That being said, if he survived the drunken boating accident in the middle of an enormous scandal, I don't know why foolishly letting Coach G go would be enough to get rid of him.

Should have clarified my initial post a little. Letting Coach G walk would be the last straw for me really.

wilko
03-28-2007, 10:56 AM
about Alleva.

I think its a matter of whats hes ALLOWED to do. For sake of argument, put it this way.... If Alleva made a 35 million dollar deal (or whatever it was) to bring in Butch Davis to Duke.... How long do you think Alleva would keep his Job? My guess is not very long. He might have had strong public support for a bold move, but I dont think it would have necessarily pleased the folks that sign his checks.

Its not that Duke doesnt have the dollars to go get Jimmie Johnson (not the driver) if they wanted him or retain Coach G in this case. They have enuff $ to get whoever WANTS to coach at Duke.

Maybe its a case of "Gail, go get an offer and lets see what your true market value is and I'll match it and we'll make this work.." It would be horrible for her to leave w/o a fight to retain her. She is awesome for Duke. She could very well be our "Spurrier" eqivalent for womens BBall. The great one that got away. I'd hate to see that come to pass.

With rampant Duke bashing, scandles and seasons that fizzed in Mens BBall and football, I think we need to keep anything that puts Duke in a positive light out front and center. Retaining Coach G would certainly help do this.


But unfortunately, I think somebody named Duke is telling him what he can and cant do. I think Alleva is just a puppet or filter for someone else that makes real decisons about money and whats important for Duke.

Im just a fan, an outsider to the Duke community. I dont claim to have any inside scoop or knowledge. Just a hunch. Maybe others who know more can tell me if I'm on the mark or full of it.


Also ever notice its "Duke community" Other fanbases are "Gator-nation" "Tarheel-nation" or what ever... but we're the Duke Community... sounds like we should have a rainbow flag to go with the mascot. (not that theres anything wrong with that..) but for strong intimidating names that imply unity and numbers... its just not there.

And maybe thats the real root of it. With a small fractured fanbase widely dispersed around the globe, only so many people care and will get upset with any decision much less a bad one. Perhaps THATS why we will lose Coach G. not enuff people will piss and moan if she leaves to make the extra $ to pay her worthwhile.

my .02 cents

killerleft
03-28-2007, 11:09 AM
If Coach G tried to find a way to remain at Duke and Alleva didn't make a very good effort to keep her, then he's made one of the biggest blunders I've heard about in years from an AD. But we don't know that to be the case. I sure hope we find out, though that may not happen, either.

Our only hope is that she's not made up her mind over a mind-boggling offer from Texas, and her visit and her heart tell her to stay at Duke.

It could be that Coach G, for whatever reason, just decided it was time to move on. It happens.

If she leaves, we have lost one helluva coach. If she leaves, Duke has lost a great asset, period.

SoCalDukeFan
03-28-2007, 11:46 AM
I think he should have gone when he was involved in the boating/drinking deal in the middle of the lacrosse case.

However I will also say that sometimes luck can help an AD. Mike Garrett at USC hired Paul Hackett - disaster. He fired Hackett and was then unable to get his first or second choice so he winds up Pete Carroll, who was on campus to see his daughter. He actually hired Rick Majerus but lost him and wound up with Tim Floyd. So with Hackett and Majerus he is doing great. Garrett has done some other good things such as getting Galen Center built, etc.

Alleva has done nothing that impresses me. The hire of Roof just showed that he was not prepared. I really hope that Roof has a good year and proves to be a good hire. However I had the sense at the timethat Alleva did not have a well thought list of candidates for the job. At least one that he interviewed should not have been taken seriously.

SoCal

pratt '04
03-28-2007, 12:47 PM
Anyone know how the Iron Dukes (and more specifically the major donors) feel about Alleva's performance? It seems like their opinions would clearly carry the most weight.

jjasper0729
03-28-2007, 12:54 PM
hard to say. If you recall Feinstein's article from last year (can't find the link, hopefully someone else can) when he basically blasted Alleva, Koehane and Brodhead for having a myopic view of the athletic department as a whole, then it is up to the university board and overall administration. If, as Feinstein suggests, they want a status quo where there's only one really powerful athletic team and the others are left to twist in the wind, then he spells out the conspiracy pretty well.

If Alleva were to be tossed overboard, where does Duke turn? If the university academia throw their weight around, it could be more of the same or even worse in progressing toward the IVY way. If not, then you get more of the same complaints about athletics trumping academics at a top-notch university.

I personally agree with small portions of Feinstein's argument, but not the conspiracy in its totality. I tend to think that Nan was not very pro athletics, even for the women and wanted to deemphasize them on campus. If you look at the hires for undergraduate admissions, you see that starting around 94, the culture really started to shift. Now, I feel, a good portion of students go to cameron because it's what you do at duke and not because they feel like they are intrinsically part of the team as the "6th man". Some do still, but I'd wager most couldn't really care, again, it's just what you do at Duke (like tenting). I think this rubs off to the lack of attendance at the women's games except for the headline matchups. The core diehards are there, but the others only go because it's on TV or it's Carolina and you're "supposed" to go. I think Tom Mickle would have been amazing as the AD, but that's water under the bridge now (may he rest in peace).

Anyway, enough rambling for now.

chris13
03-28-2007, 06:37 PM
Since I'm a UNC fan, I have no comment on the poll topic. What I find fascinating is that if you believe the writings of John Feinstein and Art Chansky, Baddour and Alleva had similar routes to their jobs. Both were working in the athletic department reporting to the then AD (Baddour for Swofford at UNC, Alleva for Butters at Duke).

In both cases, when the AD left, the school president wanted to get someone from outside. Hooker at UNC wanted to get Matt Kupec, who was working in the UNC development office. I don't know who Keohane wanted, but IIRC it was someone from outside of Duke. IIRC, Feinstein was promoting his good friend Tom Mickle for the job.

Then, in both cases, the head basketball coach stepped in and basically were able to influence the decision so that the president's top choice was skipped over in favor of their choice. In other words Dean was able to get Baddour installed despite Hooker wanting Kupec, and K was able to get Alleva installed despite Keohane wanting someone else.

Again, I'm not vouching for these stories personally, just repeating what I've read and heard. If anyone can add or correct these stories, would love to hear it.

godukerocks
03-28-2007, 07:17 PM
A lot's been said about Alleva, but I think we need one more year before we can make a final judgement about him.

Let's go through the sports shall we?

Football: Yes, Ted Roof is 3-31 (I'm pretty sure) That's dismal. He's had three years now.You can't fire a coach after three years. In this case at least. He's trying to get some recruits, and if you keep switching coaches, that's not going to happen. If there isn't a significant inprovement this year, Alleva needs to make a move.

Lacrosse: John Danowski was an excellent hire. An A+ for that.

Baseball: Hiring Hillier was an absolute ridicilious move. At Wilmington he had a horrendous record, and if you can't win there, I don't know how you would win in the ACC. After all the controversy, he got McNally in there. Last year was another dissapointing year, but it seems that they've turned things around, they already have more wins this year than all of last year, their record being 19-9. Again, we should see how the season progresses.

Women's basketball: If Alleva somehow lets G go, it could overshadow all of the good things he's done. I don't care who else could take over, Coach G is the best person for the job right now. Yes she can't win it all right now, but neither could Mr. Krzyzewski for a while. If I'm correct it took him 5 attempts in the Final Four. This would hurt Duke tremendously it Coach G leaves.

The rest: Reanie's won a title with Duke, and he's keeping Duke soccer at a high level. Beth Bozman keeps making title games and keeps losing to Wake Forest. She'll get over the hump one day. Women's golf has won 2 straight titles, and Jolele Nagel being consistent on the volleyball floor. Duke athletics has been at a high level generally with Alleva around. Let's wait a tad longer to see if it can get better. Or worse.

dukeman28428
03-28-2007, 08:10 PM
I think all of the negative comments about Joe as our AD are selling both him and the University short.

Our track record in all sports is very good (OVERALL) and we have to remember that our programs are not backed by huge financial contributions when you compare to larger schools.

For me, Joe is doing a good job with what he has to work with and I am sure he will make a strong effort to retain Coach G and I am willing to contribute to that cause if necessary. She is a wonderful asset to Duke and I hope she stays. :) :) :)

dukeman28428
03-28-2007, 08:12 PM
Please Please Please Stay Coach G

OZZIE4DUKE
03-28-2007, 11:24 PM
I want the job.

ncnygirl
03-29-2007, 01:54 AM
If Coach G leaves, that's "it" for me with Alleva. He has had every opportunity to "step up" as AD. I have never felt proud of his performance in representing Duke....whether it be in the football issues, the baseball debacle or the lacrosse case.

Simply put, Coach G and her ladies are the most successful, dependable public faces of Duke athletics in recent years. If she leaves, it will be "on" Alleva's misogynistic head...and will telegraph Duke's wandering in the wilderness of who/what they want to be in terms of athletic success.

I cannot imagine how/why this process has gotten this far other that Coach G's feeling the inherent lack of appreciation/respect that apparently exists among the "good ole boys" in the athletic department.

I've been attending Duke football games for 50+ years (masochist, yes!) but will "walk" on my tickets/contributions if we support that charade over what GG has accomplished at Duke

bluedevil
03-29-2007, 04:34 AM
Duke still does well in the Sears Cup because of the coaches hired by Butters from years ago like G, mens soccer, womens golf and lacrosse, tennis, etc.

The football program loses $2 million/year and yet coaches that can't win a single game in years get more money and longer contracts compared to national coach of the year Goestenkors. Franks had two winless seasons in a row then got a raise and contract extension from Alleva before he had to be fired midway through the next season with a big buyout from Duke. Roof hasn't won a div.IA game in 2 years but has been guaranteed 2 more seasons which will almost undoubtedly mean 4 winless seasons in a row (according to sagarin pointspreads, Duke isn't supposed to be within 15 points of any opponents for the next 2-3 seasons).

In lacrosse, womens coach was hired by Butters and the new mens coach Danowski isn't as good as the old coach Pressler, who was top 2 throughout each of his last 2 seasons and got to the championship game his last full season. The mens team may have the best talent in the nation recruited by Pressler, but is now struggling on offense and defense while Pressler had them excelling at both ends. The team can't score against good opponents and only the incredible play of goalie Loftus who had 19, 17, and 14 saves in his last 3 games has kept Duke from what should otherwise be a .500 record and maybe being unranked. A great hire in lacrosse would have been the coach from UVA or Princeton. Danowski pretty much fell into Duke's lap because his son is the star of Duke's team.

In baseball, Hillier was 97-171 before he came to Duke, and 20-39 the season before Alleva hired him. Hillier was even worse at Duke and was involved in a steroid scandal during which Alleva looked the other way. McNally despite scheduling nonconference creampuffs is 7-32 in the ACC including 1-8 this season and getting worse while the rest of the ACC improves. Just like in football, Duke should be last place in the ACC every year until McNally's fired.

In womens basketball, Butters' hire G was #1 most of the year and may have a better and deeper team next year, the program is actually still getting better. She only has 2 years left on an insulting 4 year contract.

Mens soccer coach Rennie was hired by Butters as was the womens golf coach. Field hockey coach Bozman was hired by Duke's associate AD in charge of womens athletics Jacki Silar who used to coach field hockey among other sports, as revealed by the announcers in a televised Duke field hockey game. Duke volleyball used to dominate the ACC in the early 90s and has gone downhill since then.

So Alleva hasn't hired a single decent coach since he became AD in 98 and has destroyed many sports, womens basketball will be next if he gets his way. K was responsible for hiring Alleva because Duke had offered the job to another experienced AD from Iowa before K jumped in and publicly said the AD should be Alleva, causing Duke's first choice to back out. Since then, Alleva has made a lot of weird decisions especially concerning football, the kind of decisions that would get any AD fired at any normal school.

Ima Facultiwyfe
03-29-2007, 11:24 AM
I want the job.
I'd hire ya, big guy!

Love, Ima

throatybeard
03-29-2007, 11:27 AM
I want the job.

I would agree that an AD running around naked tooting an airhorn with a Bud Light in his hand is an upgrade over an AD being involved in tomfoolery with boats... :eek:

bluedevil
03-31-2007, 01:41 PM
Is Alleva really in charge of anything at Duke? Isn't the AD supposed to try to get the most money for the coaches and athletic department, keep all the good coaches, get rid of the bad unpopular coaches, and try to get the university to pay to hire the best coaches when needed? Why has Alleva done the opposite of all that since he came to Duke? How does that make any sense, or his rock solid job security after several bad hires and scandals personal and otherwise? Who's keeping him around and who's telling him what to do?

I called Alleva's office and apparently he and Brodhead are in meetings constantly until G is hired by Texas. When this poll started, I told Alleva's secretary about the 90% wanting him gone and she said he'd get the message about this website's message board and all the fan disapproval, so all the votes to keep Alleva are probably from Alleva himself or his family going to a computer cluster.

dukemomLA
03-31-2007, 04:38 PM
Hi everyone at DBR. Let's start an email campaign, etc. to fire Joe Alleva. He's been a disaster from the start, arrogant, having no skills, etc. Enough is enough. We all need to let Duke know that our support (financial and otherwise) will be withheld until this firing takes place.

And MOST IMPORTANTLY, Coach G MUST STAY. She deserves to be given a salary equivalent to Geno or Pat Summitt, as well as any other perks she demands (such a charter flights for her team).

And if Coach K doesn't step to the fore IMMEDIATELY with support -- I think we should blanket him with letters and emails of shame.

FireOgilvie
03-31-2007, 04:56 PM
Hi everyone at DBR. Let's start an email campaign, etc. to fire Joe Alleva. He's been a disaster from the start, arrogant, having no skills, etc. Enough is enough. We all need to let Duke know that our support (financial and otherwise) will be withheld until this firing takes place.

And MOST IMPORTANTLY, Coach G MUST STAY. She deserves to be given a salary equivalent to Geno or Pat Summitt, as well as any other perks she demands (such a charter flights for her team).

And if Coach K doesn't step to the fore IMMEDIATELY with support -- I think we should blanket him with letters and emails of shame.


I agree with firing Alleva.

However, there's absolutely no way that Coach G should make as much money as either Summitt or Auriemma. They have combined for a ridiculously high amount of championships and their programs actually make profit. Do I think Coach G should be making more? Yes... probably a lot more. But Summitt and Auriemma each make ~1 million a year.

As far as Coach K goes, has anyone actually asked him his opinion on the matter? It's not his job to publically support the women's basketball coach.

As far as this e-mail campaign goes... who would we e-mail? Brodhead? I'm sure he could care less about Duke athletics. He's shown that from the beginning.

OZZIE4DUKE
03-31-2007, 06:44 PM
I would agree that an AD running around naked tooting an airhorn with a Bud Light in his hand is an upgrade over an AD being involved in tomfoolery with boats... :eek:

I'd hire ya, big guy!

Love, Ima

Thank you both for your support. As far as Throaty's comments, I've been there and done that. No undergrad athlete is going to come up with some hairbrained scheme that I haven't seen, heard or possibly done.

After Alleva's boating incident last year, DukeTaylor and I agreed that even though we'd be great ADs (he wants the job too and we agreed that if either of us was hired the other would be his assistant AD), our mutually professed love of Bud Light might exclude us from consideration.

bluedevil
04-15-2007, 05:47 PM
I think Cal and Texas both have female ADs. Some fans seem to think the Coach G and Boyle situations has fueled perceptions of a lack of appreciation for womens sports or nonrevenue sports at Duke. And that perhaps coaches at Duke are nervous or rethinking their futures. Maybe Duke should promote associate AD Jacki Silar to AD, she was responsible for hiring field hockey coach Bozman who's taken Duke to a few championship games. I assume Coach K would be fine with that since she's another inside hire and longtime Dukie.

I think Duke should go for Maryland's AD Yow along with Brenda Frese. Doesn't Gary Williams only make about $1 million at UMD and does that state have some sort of law limiting coaching salaries? Duke could offer Frese a raise and a better and more prestigious program that's easier to recruit to and has higher potential for prestige and national exposure like mens hoops. It's no accident Duke and Stanford do so well in nonrevenue sports and womens basketball, it's much easier to recruit athletes from all over the country and world with a prestigious degree and outstanding school, because its worth so much more money, now and in the future.

Is Alleva even going anywhere? Are higher ups responsible for disastrous coaching searches by offering less than market salaries for good coaches or signing off on everything Alleva did? Many people said Alleva would be gone when his child graduates this May, or when his contract is up in 2008. Was this inside information, speculation or wishful thinking? Are we just going to wait until 2008 since Roof supposedly has 2 more years? It's depressing to say this, but has Alleva pretty much done all the damage he can do to Duke by now anyway? I think Duke may be waiting until 2008 so that they don't get any more negative press rehashed if they fire Alleva. Is there any chance he gets renewed for another 5 years?

If his contract won't be renewed, it would be a good for Duke and Alleva to announce now that he will be leaving in 2008 to pursue other opportunities. Coaches and administrators do it all the time. Didn't Butters and Keohane announce their departures long before it happened so that Duke would have plenty of time to find replacements?