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quickgtp
10-16-2008, 03:17 PM
I don't know about the rest of you, but I hope the Dukies take it to the Hoyas this year. Of course I want to win every game, but Greg Monroe really left a bad feeling with me after he stood us up in the recruiting process.

Who do you think can match up well with Greg Monroe from the Duke squad? Thomas or Singler? Maybe Miles?

I know this post may not be the most productive one here, it just registered that Monroe is coming to town with the Hoyas!

MChambers
10-16-2008, 03:52 PM
Don't know what you have against Monroe. I'm sorry he didn't come to Duke, but it seems to me that he simply chose to go elsewhere. Shouldn't be any hard feelings. I hope the Crazies treat him with respect.

Bob Green
10-16-2008, 03:58 PM
Don't know what you have against Monroe. I'm sorry he didn't come to Duke, but it seems to me that he simply chose to go elsewhere. Shouldn't be any hard feelings. I hope the Crazies treat him with respect.

Agreed. Georgetown and Greg Monroe coming to Cameron this season offers the Crazies an opportunity to display their class. It is counterproductive to be upset over losing a recruit. Monroe simply decided he liked Georgetown. The list of top recruits who decided against Duke is long and distinguished.

studdlee10
10-16-2008, 04:01 PM
As long as they don't make personal attacks, who cares if the Crazies give Greg Monroe some good-natured ribbing? That is part of the charm/fun of Cameron. I think I'd be more disappointed if the Crazies didn't make fun of Monroe IF Duke somehow pulled out a comfortable victory.

As for who matches up well with Greg...he is not a low post banger. From sheer size, he'll grab some boards, but he's not going to willingly back down anybody in the low post. We'll be fine putting Thomas/Plumlee/Czyz on him. Honestly, the guys who scare me the most on G'town are Chris Wright and Jason Clark. If we put Paulus on either of those guys...they will have a field day on offense.

Devilsfan
10-16-2008, 04:09 PM
Yes Crazies, just "keep it real"! Hope you can find the remedy that made you famous. Creativity PLEASE!!!

Ignatius07
10-16-2008, 05:18 PM
As long as they don't make personal attacks, who cares if the Crazies give Greg Monroe some good-natured ribbing? That is part of the charm/fun of Cameron. I think I'd be more disappointed if the Crazies didn't make fun of Monroe IF Duke somehow pulled out a comfortable victory.

As for who matches up well with Greg...he is not a low post banger. From sheer size, he'll grab some boards, but he's not going to willingly back down anybody in the low post. We'll be fine putting Thomas/Plumlee/Czyz on him. Honestly, the guys who scare me the most on G'town are Chris Wright and Jason Clark. If we put Paulus on either of those guys...they will have a field day on offense.

Agreed there's no reason to spare Monroe or act like we didn't recruit him. It's just more ammo to use once we build up a big lead.

I would expect Singler to guard Monroe, as they're both inside-out big guys, though I think Thomas or McClure would do a good job on him as well. I'd expect Plumlee and Czyz to generally guard the 5 more, at least early on.

BD80
10-16-2008, 07:08 PM
... the guys who scare me the most on G'town are Chris Wright and Jason Clark. If we put Paulus on either of those guys...they will have a field day on offense.

Why do many people on this board believe that man-to-man defense means five individual games of one-on-one basketball?

Greg and Jon could be better a keeping in front of their men, but that does not make them deficient defenders. Many times they are instructed to take away one lane and force their man into a help defender.

kramerbr
10-16-2008, 07:45 PM
Agreed ^^ Jon is and will continue to be one of our best perimeter defenders. I am a firm believer that Jon might be our best "all around" player.

quickgtp
10-16-2008, 09:26 PM
Don't know what you have against Monroe. I'm sorry he didn't come to Duke, but it seems to me that he simply chose to go elsewhere. Shouldn't be any hard feelings. I hope the Crazies treat him with respect.


This is a perfect example of why I am reluctant to post here sometimes. I wasn't asking how the CROWD would act, rather how Duke would do against GU. And I do realize it isn't "5 one-on-one games" in basketball, but I was thinking of who would draw Monroe on the defensive end. There are moments when things clear out and 2 players are left to go one on one.....

I agree with the Crazies statement....they need to go hard after Greg Monroe, and I am sure it will be done with great creativity!

heyman25
10-16-2008, 10:22 PM
Monroe did not extend any courtesy to all the Duke attempts to recruit him. I say let the Cameron Crazies have their day. They should not go out of bounds in crowd behavior. Many times that backfires. The Dodgers got payback from the Hawaiian Phillies outfielder.( his name escapes me)Don't give Monroe any extra edge in the game.

Both Monroe and Paterson disrespected the Duke Coaching staff in my opinion, but anything can happen in college basketball recruiting. We have to move on.

2535Miles
10-17-2008, 02:16 AM
This is a perfect example of why I am reluctant to post here sometimes.
I felt the same way for years until I joined the OTB. :D

whereinthehellami
10-17-2008, 08:48 AM
I'm not that sold on Monroe. Seems kinda of soft. Physically and athletically talented but I don't expect to see him dominate this year. We'll see what JT2(3?) can do with him.

gw67
10-17-2008, 11:37 AM
There are some folks on this board who follow the Hoyas closely and are better qualified than me to comment on the Hoyas but I’ll provide my two cents. Georgetown lost several starters and backups to graduation and transfer. Nevertheless, I expect them to have a good season. Young Thompson will have a thin bench but he plays a deliberate style offense so I don’t think that it will be a problem. I expect them to start Sapp, Freeman and Wright on the perimeter and Summers and Monroe inside. Based on their offensive sets and back door play, I don’t expect a lot of one-on-one play and I don’t worry about either Wright or freshman backup, Clark, scoring a bunch of points against Paulus. I expect Sapp, Freeman and Summers to be their leading scorers during the season until Monroe becomes acclimated to the college game.

gw67

CDu
10-17-2008, 11:50 AM
Why do many people on this board believe that man-to-man defense means five individual games of one-on-one basketball?

Greg and Jon could be better a keeping in front of their men, but that does not make them deficient defenders. Many times they are instructed to take away one lane and force their man into a help defender.

While man-to-man doesn't mean five individual games of one-on-one, an inability to stay in front of your man DOES make you a deficient defender. It requires the team to restructure the defense in a way that protects this deficiency as much as possible, and can create opportunities that wouldn't be there with better defenders.

Take Shelden Williams for example. He was, by all accounts, a spectacular defensive player at Duke. He was terrific in man-to-man and he was also a great help defender. As such, he covered a lot of mistakes made by perimeter defenders. But it came with a cost. Because Shelden had to help out, his man was frequently left for easy buckets from passes by the driving guard. The best example of this was against Indiana, in which Marco Killingsworth got 34 points and 15-20 shooting, many of which came on uncontested layups in which Shelden was playing help defense.

So no - man-to-man doesn't mean five games of one-on-one. But at the same time, having weak on-ball defenders puts a LOT of stress on a man-to-man defense, and can create easy opportunities for the opposing team to score.

Wags
10-17-2008, 12:22 PM
Georgetown lost out on Ryan Kelly when he committed to Duke. Does anyone know where Jeremiah Rivers transferred?

jimsumner
10-17-2008, 12:28 PM
I think the criticism of Monroe is a bit over the top. He found the school he thought was the best fit for him and ended his recruitment. Duke has received countless committments over the years from recruits who canceled visits to schools they had just eliminated.

Would you rather Monroe had wasted Duke's time, money, and energy by making an official visit after he had made up his mind to go elsewhere?

gw67
10-17-2008, 12:30 PM
CDu,

I respect your opinions and agree with much of what you stated in your post; however, the issue of playing weak defenders is more complex. How much does that player add to the offense? Can he be hidden on defense or does it matter depending on the opposition? My observations are that very few teams play or, in some cases, even have five good defenders. It generally doesn't matter because very few teams have five strong offensive players. College basketball isn't the NBA where you are playing five talented players, isolate and play one-on-one on many occasions. Help and off-the-ball defense can play a big role on defense in college basketball.

One of my favorite college players was Juan Dixon. He was not a particularly strong on-the-ball defender but he played good position defense and made his man work for his points. He was also a terrific off-the-ball defender and led the team in steals.

gw67

CDu
10-17-2008, 12:37 PM
I don't think that you said is in any way contradictory to what I said. And I completely agree with you. I think help defense is essential to any man-to-man scheme. I wasn't in any way intending to disparage help defense. I was just showing how, even with the team defense concept to man-to-man, having a weak individual defender creates problems for the defense as a collective.

My point was that the existence of help defense doesn't eliminate the problem of failing to stay in front of your man. To say that because defense isn't five individual one-on-one matchups means Paulus's inability to stay in front of his man isn't a deficiency is just plain wrong.



CDu,

I respect your opinions and agree with much of what you stated in your post; however, the issue of playing weak defenders is more complex. How much does that player add to the offense? Can he be hidden on defense or does it matter depending on the opposition? My observations are that very few teams play or, in some cases, even have five good defenders. It generally doesn't matter because very few teams have five strong offensive players. College basketball isn't the NBA where you are playing five talented players, isolate and play one-on-one on many occasions. Help and off-the-ball defense can play a big role on defense in college basketball.

One of my favorite college players was Juan Dixon. He was not a particularly strong on-the-ball defender but he played good position defense and made his man work for his points. He was also a terrific off-the-ball defender and led the team in steals.

gw67

BD80
10-17-2008, 03:48 PM
... I was just showing how, even with the team defense concept to man-to-man, having a weak individual defender creates problems for the defense as a collective.

Conceded. However, I do not define Paulus as a "weak" individual defender. He may not excel at staying in front of his man, but he is not deficient or weak. In which game(s) did an opposing point guard "go off" on Greg and take advantage of his supposed inability to stay in front of quick point guards?


My point was that the existence of help defense doesn't eliminate the problem of failing to stay in front of your man.

My point is that it may be better to funnel your man to his bad side, even if he gets by you five times in a row on that side, rather than to let him by you even once to the other side, depending on how your defense is set up.


To say that because defense isn't five individual one-on-one matchups means Paulus's inability to stay in front of his man isn't a deficiency is just plain wrong.

If Paulus were so "deficient," he wouldn't be playing, and he certainly wouldn't be instructed to pick up his man so far away from the basket. Greg certainly is not a "deficient" college defender, saying or implying as much is not productive and is "just plain wrong."

Our defensive "woes" are also in part due to our lack of a strong post "help" defender.

If your point is that Nolan is a better defender than Greg, I will concede that point as well. You will probably see Nolan defending opposing point guards more often, as he and Greg will see more playing time together due to Markie's departure.

CDu
10-17-2008, 03:59 PM
Conceded. However, I do not define Paulus as a "weak" individual defender. He may not excel at staying in front of his man, but he is not deficient or weak. In which game(s) did an opposing point guard "go off" on Greg and take advantage of his supposed inability to stay in front of quick point guards?

My point is that it may be better to funnel your man to his bad side, even if he gets by you five times in a row on that side, rather than to let him by you even once to the other side, depending on how your defense is set up.

If Paulus were so "deficient," he wouldn't be playing, and he certainly wouldn't be instructed to pick up his man so far away from the basket. Greg certainly is not a "deficient" college defender, saying or implying as much is not productive and is "just plain wrong."

Our defensive "woes" are also in part due to our lack of a strong post "help" defender.

If your point is that Nolan is a better defender than Greg, I will concede that point as well. You will probably see Nolan defending opposing point guards more often, as he and Greg will see more playing time together due to Markie's departure.

We are going to have to agree to disagree. I think Paulus is a deficient defender. I think he's stayed on the floor because Duke had no other experienced ballhandlers and because Coach K values his leadership and shooting ability. I think those things outweighed his defensive liabilities.

mapei
10-18-2008, 03:46 PM
There are some folks on this board who follow the Hoyas closely and are better qualified than me to comment on the Hoyas but I’ll provide my two cents. Georgetown lost several starters and backups to graduation and transfer. Nevertheless, I expect them to have a good season. Young Thompson will have a thin bench but he plays a deliberate style offense so I don’t think that it will be a problem. I expect them to start Sapp, Freeman and Wright on the perimeter and Summers and Monroe inside. Based on their offensive sets and back door play, I don’t expect a lot of one-on-one play and I don’t worry about either Wright or freshman backup, Clark, scoring a bunch of points against Paulus. I expect Sapp, Freeman and Summers to be their leading scorers during the season until Monroe becomes acclimated to the college game.

gw67

I pretty much agree with gw67, and definitely on the 5 likely starters. Gtown will look vastly different this year without 4-year starter (and all-time 3-pt shooter) Wallace and 3+ year starter Hibbert. They will lose steadiness and leadership. But they will also be much quicker, and expect JT3 to adjust his offense to take advantage of that.

Unless Monroe is a very quick bloomer, and he did improve dramatically over the course of the summer league, the most dynamic players will be the highly athletic F DaJuan Summers and quick G Chris Wright, the steadiest swingman Austin Freeman. G Jason Clark and C Henry Sims will push for time, and so will F/C Julian Vaughan. Don't be surprised if sharpshooter F Nikita Mescheriakov gets some time, too; he was terrific in the summer league. The Hoyas are much less experienced than last year (3 of their top 6 players graduated), but not that thin on talent.

I will be shocked if they win the Big East regular season for the third straight year, but they will be better than a lot of people think. And the matchup with Duke could be very even.

Indoor66
10-18-2008, 03:52 PM
And the matchup with Duke could be very even.

I think you are dreaming there!

mapei
10-18-2008, 03:55 PM
I think you are dreaming there!

I don't think the Hoyas have anyone who can match up well with Henderson, which may be the key for Duke. The key for Georgetown will be which DaJuan shows up.

No matter what, that game is going to make me a nervous wreck. I'll probably pull for Duke but I hate for either of my favorite teams to lose.

Coballs
12-13-2008, 04:33 PM
Just finished watching G'Town-Memphis. Monroe looked like the real deal. He showed great post moves, the ability to use both hands, he moved well without the ball, pulled down a bunch of rebounds, made foul shots, and dished out some great passes. I kept thinking to myself "What if....?", which is the same thing I think whenever I watch Patterson and Brockman.

Kedsy
12-13-2008, 04:39 PM
Just finished watching G'Town-Memphis. Monroe looked like the real deal. He showed great post moves, the ability to use both hands, he moved well without the ball, pulled down a bunch of rebounds, made foul shots, and dished out some great passes. I kept thinking to myself "What if....?", which is the same thing I think whenever I watch Patterson and Brockman.

Yeah, but you never know. We might have snagged one of them but not gotten Singler...

Bob Green
12-13-2008, 05:15 PM
I kept thinking to myself "What if....?", which is the same thing I think whenever I watch Patterson and Brockman.

I enjoy following the recruiting scene but once a target selects a school other than Duke I move on. Obsessing over the "What if....?" isn't productive. Duke has signed some talented players in the 2009 and 2010 classes and continues to pursue more talent.

dukemsu
12-13-2008, 05:26 PM
I was a bit underwhelmed with Monroe till the last few minutes and overtime. Good rebounder, and a very good passer for a big guy.

I guess with all the hype I was expecting something closer to an Oden-type player, but he's much different. He also has room to grow, and doesn't (to me) have the look of a one-and-done.

He would have looked good at Duke, but oh well. Best of luck to him and we'll see who the next great Duke big man will be.

dukemsu

wolfpackdevil
12-13-2008, 06:39 PM
I don't know about the rest of you, but I hope the Dukies take it to the Hoyas this year. Of course I want to win every game, but Greg Monroe really left a bad feeling with me after he stood us up in the recruiting process.

Who do you think can match up well with Greg Monroe from the Duke squad? Thomas or Singler? Maybe Miles?

I know this post may not be the most productive one here, it just registered that Monroe is coming to town with the Hoyas!


I don't really care about how the hoyas do this year.

But I saw Jessie Sapp (I think), shoot a 3 with less than a second to go, when they were already up by 6.

I thought this move was SOOOO unclassy, I wanted some of the memphis team to go over and start a fight with the Georgetown guys.

This was horrible, I was ashamed to watch a team with such a classy coach do something stupid like this

Coballs
12-13-2008, 07:26 PM
Monroe did not extend any courtesy to all the Duke attempts to recruit him. I say let the Cameron Crazies have their day. They should not go out of bounds in crowd behavior. Many times that backfires. The Dodgers got payback from the Hawaiian Phillies outfielder.( his name escapes me)Don't give Monroe any extra edge in the game.

Both Monroe and Paterson disrespected the Duke Coaching staff in my opinion, but anything can happen in college basketball recruiting. We have to move on.

His name is Shane Victorino.

Coballs
12-13-2008, 07:41 PM
I enjoy following the recruiting scene but once a target selects a school other than Duke I move on. Obsessing over the "What if....?" isn't productive. Duke has signed some talented players in the 2009 and 2010 classes and continues to pursue more talent.

BG,
I agree with your points. Obsessing over "What if...?" isn't productive. But when I see a stud player who once claimed that Duke was his "dream school" go on to star for a different program, it's my nature (and perhaps human nature) to wonder about what could have been. However, I am far from obsessing over it.
College basketball is cyclical, and I have no doubt that Duke will soon be a national title contender...just not this season. Every program has their ups and downs and I'm certainly glad that Duke's minor dip in tournament success over the last several years is far from the nosedives taken by other perennial powerhouses like Kentucky, Indiana, and Arizona.

Coballs
12-13-2008, 07:51 PM
I don't really care about how the hoyas do this year.

But I saw Jessie Sapp (I think), shoot a 3 with less than a second to go, when they were already up by 6.

I thought this move was SOOOO unclassy, I wanted some of the memphis team to go over and start a fight with the Georgetown guys.

This was horrible, I was ashamed to watch a team with such a classy coach do something stupid like this

Not necessarily the right thing to do, but not that big of a deal IMO. The game was over, but far from a blowout and it really was a meaningless 35 foot fling and did not undermine the highly competitive nature of the game. I doubt that Calipari and his players really cared about that particular shot. They are more likely upset about losing an overtime game against a tough opponent...and nothing more than that. If the same thing happened against Duke, I personally wouldn't care.

wolfpackdevil
12-13-2008, 08:26 PM
Not necessarily the right thing to do, but not that big of a deal IMO. The game was over, but far from a blowout and it really was a meaningless 35 foot fling and did not undermine the highly competitive nature of the game. I doubt that Calipari and his players really cared about that particular shot. They are more likely upset about losing an overtime game against a tough opponent...and nothing more than that. If the same thing happened against Duke, I personally wouldn't care.


It doesn't matter if was a 35 foot fling that didn't matter, or if Calipari didn't care. It unsportsmanlike. Why do you think that players dribble that last 30 seconds out standind next to the referee? Because to keep shooting is playing without class. Now I like showing off, but showing off and not respecting the other team, theres a huge line

Wander
12-13-2008, 09:03 PM
You're being comically oversensitive.

Georgetown looks better than I thought they would. Our schedule is looking better and better each day.

tommy
12-13-2008, 09:58 PM
As long as they don't make personal attacks, who cares if the Crazies give Greg Monroe some good-natured ribbing? That is part of the charm/fun of Cameron. I think I'd be more disappointed if the Crazies didn't make fun of Monroe IF Duke somehow pulled out a comfortable victory.

As for who matches up well with Greg...he is not a low post banger. From sheer size, he'll grab some boards, but he's not going to willingly back down anybody in the low post. We'll be fine putting Thomas/Plumlee/Czyz on him. Honestly, the guys who scare me the most on G'town are Chris Wright and Jason Clark. If we put Paulus on either of those guys...they will have a field day on offense.

Seems like some posters are not watching the games. In case you haven't noticed, against any kind of serious competition, Czyz DOES NOT PLAY. He is clearly NOT READY. And will not be ready this season to contribute meaningfully. What would make anyone believe differently?

Though Plumlee is ahead of Olek in his development, Miles is also seeing precious little meaningful time, and when he does get some, like in the second Michigan game, he is completely bewildered. To suggest that either one of these guys is ready to play in a bigtime matchup with Georgetown, and can be counted on to guard a player like Monroe, who is (no pun intended) miles ahead of either one of them, is kinda silly. Can we stop?

Kedsy
12-13-2008, 11:03 PM
Seems like some posters are not watching the games. In case you haven't noticed, against any kind of serious competition, Czyz DOES NOT PLAY. He is clearly NOT READY. And will not be ready this season to contribute meaningfully. What would make anyone believe differently?

Though Plumlee is ahead of Olek in his development, Miles is also seeing precious little meaningful time, and when he does get some, like in the second Michigan game, he is completely bewildered. To suggest that either one of these guys is ready to play in a bigtime matchup with Georgetown, and can be counted on to guard a player like Monroe, who is (no pun intended) miles ahead of either one of them, is kinda silly. Can we stop?

Lighten up, man. You're responding to a post from October 16. And back in October, people were still hoping Czyz would contribute and thinking Plumlee might be a starter. Back then, there hadn't been any games to watch yet and such thinking was not crazy.

You ought to read the date on a post before you respond this way. S'all I'm sayin'.

Bob Green
12-14-2008, 12:06 AM
Our schedule is looking better and better each day.

12/20: Xavier at the Meadowlands
1/7: Davidson
1/17: Georgetown

I see all three of those games as serious challenges which will make us better come March. I saw about the first eight or nine minutes of the Xavier game today and they will not be a pushover. The Atlantic 10 has developed into a strong basketball conference over the past few seasons. Stephen Curry scored 41 points in Davidson's 100-95 win over Chattanooga today. I watched Georgetown beat Memphis while throwing up three point brick after three point brick. On a different day, with a normal percentage of those three pointers going in, Georgetown runs Memphis out of the gym.

Ders24
12-14-2008, 12:43 AM
12/20: Xavier at the Meadowlands
1/7: Davidson
1/17: Georgetown

I see all three of those games as serious challenges which will make us better come March. I saw about the first eight or nine minutes of the Xavier game today and they will not be a pushover. The Atlantic 10 has developed into a strong basketball conference over the past few seasons. Stephen Curry scored 41 points in Davidson's 100-95 win over Chattanooga today. I watched Georgetown beat Memphis while throwing up three point brick after three point brick. On a different day, with a normal percentage of those three pointers going in, Georgetown runs Memphis out of the gym.

I haven't seen either Xavier or Georgetown play, but from what I've read the verdict is still a bit out on Xavier, so it is still a very intriguing matchup. Georgetown – again not having seen them play, but from what I've read – seems to be much much better than people anticipated, and I'm nervous and excited for that match up already.

dukemomLA
12-14-2008, 01:37 AM
And yes, I'd LOVE to see some CREATIVITY from the Crazies, but...anything boorish will annoy me. G. Monroe chose the school which he felt was right for him. So be it -- also have others. And the recruits that come to Duke are Dukies and bleed Duke blue. And goodness knows, there are so many guys lined up to join the Cameron/Duke legacy.

I (sorry) happen to like Georgetown and their coach and wish them well. I think that G'town, Davidson and Xavier are all Tourny bound teams. So it will be a fun month -- and of course, I expect Duke to whip all their butts. But a good test going into ACC play.

-bdbd
12-14-2008, 01:45 AM
Living in the DC area, it has been interesting to see the local coverage of Monroe and GT this year. There certainly was a lot of crowing over beating out Duke for Monroe (nothing classless, GT fans generally aren't like that), but they seemed particularly happy with getting him b/c of Duke being the competition.

Greg has been having a great rookie season and seems to wind up several times on every local highlight reel from a GT game's coverage. He sure woulda looked good in Royal Blue!

As for who we have to match up with him, I think the style of Lance Thomas seems the closest to Greg's fluidity. BTW he's a great passer out of the post as teams sag down onto him with the ball down low, and he hits another Hoya quickly cutting to the hoop. No way do I see him staying 4 years, and 1-2 seems like a real possibility. Alternatively, we could think of this in a K way -- NOT how do we match up with him, but rather, how does HE match up with us (in someone like Zoobs, whose more of a power player than Monroe, or Singler who would draw him out from his comfort zone under the basket).

Yes, I think we have some answers for Mr Monroe and company. I also think that game will show off our depth, as GT doesn't have much of a bench from what I can see. GT-Duke should be a fun one....especially in Cameron!!

-BDBD

Reisen
12-14-2008, 02:42 AM
I don't really care about how the hoyas do this year.

But I saw Jessie Sapp (I think), shoot a 3 with less than a second to go, when they were already up by 6.

I thought this move was SOOOO unclassy, I wanted some of the memphis team to go over and start a fight with the Georgetown guys.

This was horrible, I was ashamed to watch a team with such a classy coach do something stupid like this

I watched the game (I'm a duke undergrad, current Georgetown MBA with season tickets), and thought about this too, but I think that was as much celebrating the win as it was shooting (he flung the ball rather than shot it, and was close to half-court).

The funnier part to me was the fact that Georgetown couldn't buy a three all game, then, the hardest shot of the night, and the ONLY one that doesn't matter... goes in.

ricks68
12-14-2008, 11:44 AM
I have to agree with Reisen on this one. I watched the whole GT/Memphis game after taping it, and saw the Geogetown player fling the ball towards the goal in what appeared to be sheer joy in the well deserved win. The ball hit the backboard and went in as a fluke shot. What's wrong with that?

Also, I watched a team that I predict we will not beat if our outside shooting fails us. Georgetown has the potential to be devastating under the basket against us, even if they got killed by Memphis on the offensive boards. I was shocked to see that the shortest guard for Memphis was like 6'7" or 6'8" in the starting lineup, and that certainly could have accounted for their rebound attack since almost all of their players crashed the boards at different times.

I also think that if Memphis' apparent street-ball style of play was not either inherent in their players and/or promoted by their coach, they would be the team to beat again this year. But, evidently, it will probably be their downfall again.

I also noted that pulling Monroe out from the basket just resulted in him moving toward the basket very aggresively and putting it up, or dishing very effectively to another very tall athletic player slashing to the basket. Oh, and for a tall guy, he hits his foul shots pretty well with a real nice stroke.

Georgetown is very, very good. From what I could see from both teams yesterday, however, is that they just seemed to throw the ball up at the basket a lot, and rely on the put-back to produce the points. Hence, the poor shooting stats on both sides. So considering that the vast majority of both team's shots were from very close in, the stats alone still don't reflect how bad their shooting really was.

Lastly, I believe it would improve the quality of posting on the boards if posters would try to take off their rose-colored glasses more often regarding our team, and try to be more objective. Acting in that manner is what usually separates us from other boards, and results in a superior experience for the members.:o

Just my 2 cents plus.

ricks

studdlee10
12-14-2008, 12:49 PM
Greg Monroe has been a fantastic player. I'll gladly eat crow and admit that he has been far better in college than he was in high school. That said...Monroe will not go for a Hansbrough like 30 and 20 against us. The limitations of the G'town system and the fact that we do have some size will allow us to at least hang with Monroe. To beat Duke, you need athletic outside scorers who will drive the lane and draw the defense, ie Manny Harris and Grady at Michigan. Chris wright, while a fantastic player, will be much easier for Nolan and Greg to stay in front of than either Harris or Grady were. Add in the fact that neither Summers,Sapp, or Freeman are exactly fleet of foot. No joke, Hummel and Moore at Purdue heads and shoulders more talented than any of the w/f that G'town have, and we did a decent job against those guys. We match up very well with G'town. Xavier on the other hand. Has the type of lineup and players (derrick brown) that can and will give our D fits.

Also....Memphis is just not a very good team. I don't think it's too much of a stretch or exaggeration to say that Michigan could be better than Memphis. Tyreke Evans is the definition of black hole.

SupaDave
12-14-2008, 12:56 PM
[QUOTE]I was shocked to see that the shortest guard for Memphis was like 6'7" or 6'8" in the starting lineup, and that certainly could have accounted for their rebound attack since almost all of their players crashed the boards at different times.

Memphis has TWO guards over 6'5 and they are both 6'6, Tyreke Evans and Antonio Anderson - a very talented freshmen and a senior. On a guard heavy roster they have three at 6'2, one at 6'4, and three at 6'5. Only Tyreke and Anderson see significant minutes.


I also think that if Memphis' apparent street-ball style of play was not either inherent in their players and/or promoted by their coach, they would be the team to beat again this year. But, evidently, it will probably be their downfall again.

A 'street' style that got them a conference championship, a #1 seed in the tourney, a Final Four appearence, and a trip to the National Championship game? Wait - what was their downfall again?

Ohhhh, maybe you mean THIS offense...

http://www.coachlikeapro.com/memphis-motion-offense.html

which is a bit similar to a certain other team's offense...

http://coachingbetterbball.blogspot.com/2007/10/duke-3-2-motion-offense.html

SupaDave
12-14-2008, 12:58 PM
Also....Memphis is just not a very good team. I don't think it's too much of a stretch or exaggeration to say that Michigan could be better than Memphis. Tyreke Evans is the definition of black hole, and none of the perimeter guys on Memphis seem to be able to create shots for others. Their interior play consists of one big guy (niles) who can barely run the full length of the corut without getting tired and 2 "posts" (Dozier and Taggart) that make Lance and Zoub look like they are on steriods. This is not a good team that G'town just beat. At home, in front of a big crowd....barely beating a bad Memphis team. I'm not impressed.

Taking this one step further - they lost to Xavier recently. Not exactly a powerhouse.

greybeard
12-14-2008, 11:06 PM
the most interesting thing about this game, imo, was the coaching. I was with my GT guy, at mid court 10 rows up. it seemed the first half that georgetown wanted to establish its style of play, at least on offense, playing inside to monroe and getting 3s off inside out passes and rotation. wasn't happening.

georgetown ended up attacking the basket from the outside, which was what memphis wanted to do just about all the time, but was doing so reluctantly. not the second half.

the second half it seemed as if jtiii said, my boys wright and austin can attack the rim with anyone, anywhere. you give it to us, we're not just takin it, we're loving it. summers too.

and, attack they did and you know what, they were better at finishing then memphis. but here was the real genuis. he seemed to say to his guys, they're taller, we're stronger and smarter and we will get in their way and we will defensive rebound.

i have to tell you that the game would not have been close if the over-theback rule was called. it wasn't. just cause they're skinny and long, didn't mean those memphis guys weren't climbin. they were and it wasn't called. guys started getting bodies in the way and making significant contact to the flying tigers--huge difference. and summers, if he could get in the way he did, if he couldn't, he flew. monroe, he was a warrier.

the only fault i found with jtiii's strategy was, especially in the last 10 minutes, the ball was not going inside to monroe, especially early. sound familiar.

potg for georgetown, jtiii. the guy can coach em up. beat memphis at its own game, just like he did two years ago against unc.

devildeac
12-14-2008, 11:32 PM
12/20: Xavier at the Meadowlands
1/7: Davidson
1/17: Georgetown

I see all three of those games as serious challenges which will make us better come March. I saw about the first eight or nine minutes of the Xavier game today and they will not be a pushover. The Atlantic 10 has developed into a strong basketball conference over the past few seasons. Stephen Curry scored 41 points in Davidson's 100-95 win over Chattanooga today. I watched Georgetown beat Memphis while throwing up three point brick after three point brick. On a different day, with a normal percentage of those three pointers going in, Georgetown runs Memphis out of the gym.

"... three point brick after..."

where have I seen that recently...

greybeard
12-15-2008, 08:38 PM
"... three point brick after..."

where have I seen that recently...

Memphis is long and athletic and defnds the 3 well. You might get them, but not on terms that you have dictated, that you want, expect, which makes all the difference in the world.

Memhis relied to a ridiculous degree on their star freshman's getting to the rim, and everyone swarming the boards. He finishes much much more reliably going to his left. Going to his right, especially if you make him finish somewhat away from the rim, the power and speed of his attack at the basket works against him. Better to slow down and waltz-like one-two into a graceful hook, aka Princeton guys.

At any rate, it was remarkable how Calipari went with that single play almost exclusively the last 10 minutes. You have to think certain commitments were made. Nobody can stop the guy from bustin past people--think LeBron here folks, smaller but similar on the bust past, but you can keep him away from the rim if he goes right. The question is, can you keep the rest of them away as well. I think that Duke can.

The1Bluedevil
12-15-2008, 11:14 PM
Very clear to me way Calipari has and will continue to get top-level players. What player would not want to come to a team where they have the freedom to take any shot, play one on one and just play freely at all times? Don't have to worry about set plays they don't have to read and react they just have fun and play. To most it looks like street ball but it is better then running 30 seconds off the shot clock and over using the ball screen to get a shot.

greybeard
12-16-2008, 12:24 AM
Very clear to me way Calipari has and will continue to get top-level players. What player would not want to come to a team where they have the freedom to take any shot, play one on one and just play freely at all times? Don't have to worry about set plays they don't have to read and react they just have fun and play. To most it looks like street ball but it is better then running 30 seconds off the shot clock and over using the ball screen to get a shot.

I'd have to think that the ohter ballers on this team are a tad put off by his insistent going to this guy like his name was Rose. He's bigger and stronger, gets inside the defense, but, at least against Georgetown, especially in the second half, was not getting high percentage shots at the rim, not for him. Guys like Dozer and Anderson have to wonder. I think he receruited No. 12 (sorry I don't remember the kid's name) as a one and done player and promised to give him the ball and let him break the offense down. The other guys do not possess the same freedom, or at least Calapari is not calling their number. He clearly was calling to get it to 12 and clear out. It didn't work.

In the second half, Wright finished at the basket, or a few steps away, much better than the Memphis kid, who is a man child. Going left I think he probably is much more difficult to stop. I say probably because it seemed that after the first 10 minutes, his opportunities going left were nearly non existent.

I think Duke handles this team. I'm talking Memphis here. Probably Georgetown too, but . . . .