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View Full Version : Sports Illustrated says Duke Doesn't Have a Top 15 Backcourt



BlueintheFace
10-13-2008, 06:17 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/ncaa/

Look at some of the backcourts they place ahead of us... I'm a little baffled.

Bluedog
10-13-2008, 06:23 PM
Lawson [...] would have been a first-round draft pick in June, had he not had a run-in with the law in Chapel Hill.

Huh? All mock drafts I saw had him going early second (although some late first). But NBA GMs directly stated that his arrest did not affect their opinion of him. But, yeah, agree that it's hard to believe Duke doesn't have a top 15 backcourt. That's ok. Would rather sneak up on people! :D (Although Duke can't sneak up on anybody since we are still Duke)

Dr. Rosenrosen
10-13-2008, 06:32 PM
The SI Curse is real. This is great news for us!

kramerbr
10-13-2008, 06:36 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/ncaa/

Look at some of the backcourts they place ahead of us... I'm a little baffled.

That should change once the season gets started. You can't tell me the Duke guards won't see this and use it as even extra motivation.

Ignatius07
10-13-2008, 07:18 PM
That list is so ridiculous it's hard to even get angry about it. It is an absolute joke to put USC, Florida, or Syracuse above us, at the very least. And I am not sold at all on Purdue or Memphis either. I would put Duke around #6 here. The great thing is we'll match up with Purdue and (probably) UCLA.

I respect Luke Winn, but this list is difficult to understand. I am pretty sure he doesn't regard us as worse than #15 in the country (though he might). But seeing as how there is no way we have a top-15 frontcourt, how do we not have a top-15 backcourt?

Maybe he is not counting Gerald Henderson as a guard, despite the fact that we play him (mostly) as one. Even without him I think we'd be somewhere low on that list.

DukieInBrasil
10-13-2008, 07:18 PM
Iīm a bit baffled that Duke doesnīt get a top 15 backcourt as well. How on earth can you put a backcourt that will have 3 of 4 players as Fr. with a so-so returning PG ahead of The Gerald, Scheyer, Paulus, Smith, EWill and Pocius? No doubt some Fr. are super talented, but they have proven nothing yet. GH, JS, GP have proven that they can do things that others in the article were praised for (score >10ppg, >3.2apg, >40% 3pt etc) while Smith showed some flashes of what other Fr. (who once again havenīt proven anything yet) were praised for; and EWill is a top-flight recruit as are some who were praised; and Pocius is at least a serviceable sub; yet Duke doesnīt get the nod? Mysterious...
Frasor is the best back-up PG in the nation. Really?
Press like this will hopefully (as already mentioned) be used as motivational fodder for these guys to destroy everyone (but mostly UNC)...

Dr. Rosenrosen
10-13-2008, 07:29 PM
(a) I would be surprised if our guys cared that much about something like this.
(b) I hope if they need motivation they find something more meaningful that embraces a true team perspective.
(c) I don't get the obsession with continuously trying to analyze and debunk meaningless rankings. Who cares?

Ignatius07
10-13-2008, 07:38 PM
(c) I don't get the obsession with continuously trying to analyze and debunk meaningless rankings. Who cares?

It generates discussion as to who actually has the best backcourt. Some of us think it is interesting.

dukeballer2294
10-13-2008, 07:48 PM
Just some comments, but for me it sucks that the top 2 ranked backcourts are my least favorite teams. Second it doesn't matter what anyone says right now. Within the first month of the season they will see how good henderson, scheyer,smith, williams, paulis, etc are.

Dr. Rosenrosen
10-13-2008, 07:52 PM
It generates discussion as to who actually has the best backcourt. Some of us think it is interesting.

Well, discussing who has the best backcourt would be a great topic. I just don't get why it has to be in the context of a meaningless ranking like this one. Besides, the "discussion" thus far has focused on why we should have been included in the silly ranking and how the guys could use it as motivation.

RelativeWays
10-13-2008, 08:14 PM
Top arbitrary number lists are traffic bait and thus usually have some manufactured controversy for that reason. Duke fans have proven to be easy targets because they're pretty passionate. Meh, who cares, once you see these lists for the transparent farces they are, you'll hardly care about another one again.

SilkyJ
10-13-2008, 08:20 PM
Huh? All mock drafts I saw had him going early second (although some late first). But NBA GMs directly stated that his arrest did not affect their opinion of him. But, yeah, agree that it's hard to believe Duke doesn't have a top 15 backcourt. That's ok. Would rather sneak up on people! :D (Although Duke can't sneak up on anybody since we are still Duke)

DBR posted an article saying Larry Bird was very high up on Lawson before he got the DWI. I recall Roy saying that he wasn't going to punish Lawson b/c he had already been punished enough by falling out of the lottery or whatever...

Not sure if this is the same article, but it has some of the quotes I am think of:

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/unc/story/1187012.html

Kedsy
10-13-2008, 08:25 PM
DBR posted an article saying Larry Bird was very high up on Lawson before he got the DWI. I recall Roy saying that he wasn't going to punish Lawson b/c he had already been punished enough by falling out of the lottery or whatever...

Not sure if this is the same article, but it has some of the quotes I am think of:

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/unc/story/1187012.html

Just before Lawson withdrew from the draft, the word was that Denver was looking very seriously at him. The Nuggets said the DWI wouldn't affect their decision. I doubt they had the same view of him no-showing a workout in Denver, which I expect was the last gasp for his 2008 draft chances.

Wander
10-13-2008, 08:33 PM
That list is so ridiculous it's hard to even get angry about it.

Exactly. Not only does Duke have a top 15 backcourt, we have a top 5 backcourt and maybe - maybe - a top 1 backcourt. This is just something to be ignored.

CameronBornAndBred
10-13-2008, 09:06 PM
The first sentence from their preview of Duke (http://duke.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=861584)

"Despite the loss of wing DeMarcus Nelson - Duke's leading scorer last season - few teams have a better collection of talent, depth and experience on the perimeter."

P.S. Rivals.com, not scout.com

dukelifer
10-13-2008, 09:46 PM
Exactly. Not only does Duke have a top 15 backcourt, we have a top 5 backcourt and maybe - maybe - a top 1 backcourt. This is just something to be ignored.

Duke definitely does not have a top 15 frontcourt- and if not a top 15 backcourt- how are they ranked in the preseason top 10 by many experts? K must be the best coach in America.

kramerbr
10-13-2008, 09:47 PM
Well, discussing who has the best backcourt would be a great topic. I just don't get why it has to be in the context of a meaningless ranking like this one. Besides, the "discussion" thus far has focused on why we should have been included in the silly ranking and how the guys could use it as motivation.

We could talk about the NL Pennant instead.....

Sorry in advance.

brevity
10-13-2008, 09:47 PM
It generates discussion as to who actually has the best backcourt. Some of us think it is interesting.

I agree. A well-written article that analyzed a few candidates for the nation's best backcourt would always be a good read, even in the preseason.

But a list that gives us, say, the #14 backcourt in the nation is of limited value and somewhat ridiculous.

captmojo
10-13-2008, 10:53 PM
So what? SI doesn't have a top 15 writing staff. We're even. ;)

ForeverBlowingBubbles
10-14-2008, 09:16 AM
Two of our backcourt starters (Paulus and Scheyer) aren't flashy and mostly lack star power. I'de be curious to know how many dunks they have between them. While this should not take anything away from them - were talking about SI here.

Henderson still has yet to be consistently dominant. Smith and Williams are unproven.

That said, I think we have one of the top 5 backcourts in the nation. Hopefully we can prove it this season.

Dr. Rosenrosen
10-14-2008, 09:48 AM
We could talk about the NL Pennant instead.....

Sorry in advance.

Thanks for the low blow.

Diddy
10-14-2008, 10:56 AM
I think the earlier poster hit the nail on the head with Henderson. If Winn is looking at the traditional Backcourt, ie a PG and a SG, then Duke might not have a top 15 Backcourt. If Hendo is a SF, Duke might actually have a top 15 frontcourt instead.

With Hendo as a forward, our backcourt is (probably) Paulus at PG, Scheyer at SG, wth Smith and Williams capable of backing up either position. With regards to the backups, there is a ton of potential. But we didn't see enough of Smith last year to justify a lofty ranking this year. We have heard that he improved, but we haven't seen anything yet. Williams is in much the same territory. He is a frosh. And though he was a McD's AA, he was not one of the instant superstar catagory. He will be great, I have no doubt, but probably not from Day 1 a la Rose, Mayo, or Stephenson. Point being, no one, ie Winn, has any idea how good he will be. There is nothing to base an evaluation of Williams on.

As for our starters, Paulus and Jon, they are good. But not great. They each have a weakness, and unfortunately it is the same weakness, athleticism. Jon is a solid athlete, and Paulus is, well, Gutsy. Offensively, they are fine, being good ball handlers and shooters. But neither is a real threat to penetrate and break down the opposing D. Ironically, our starters and backups are almost polar opposites. The Starters are skilled and proven, but have athletic limitations, while our backups are great athletes but are unproven and need to polish their skills.

There is potential in our backcourt, but based on what is known about us, there is a reasonable argument that a backcourt of starters Paulus and Scheyer, backed up by Smith and Williams, is not a top 15 backcourt. I don't agree, but there is a valid argument behind that belief.

Conversely, if Hendo counts in the frontcourt, Duke might actually have a top 15 front court. With Hendo at SF, and Singler at PF, we are great. Admittedly, the center position may or may not be a complete wasteland, but few teams in the nation have such quality players at both PF and SF. It is something to think about.

greybeard
10-14-2008, 01:16 PM
There's an interesting cover article (at least I found it interesting) about Josh Childress in last Sunday's New York Times Sports Section. At one point, it has Josh explaining what he finds enlivening about the International style of play, described in the article as being devoid as nearly as possible of individual achievement, and being devoted instead to making the game easy and effective.

I think that that speaks to why Duke was last year perhaps the most interesting club to watch I can remember ever seeing, at least when it was playing well. This year's team threatens to eclipse that one.

I like where Duke is taking the game. It will just take some time for the experts at SI to catch up, as soon as they stop looking in all the wrong places.

SupaDave
10-14-2008, 02:58 PM
It will just take some time for the experts at SI to catch up, as soon as they stop looking in all the wrong places.

Had a subscription to S.I. and let it run out b/c all the magazine did was talk about stuff that happened last week. They are a tragic magazine in today's online world...

Diddy
10-14-2008, 03:08 PM
They have a new list up, and we are a top frontcourt. With Hendo and Kyle, we may have the top PF/SF combo in the nation. At worst we are top 2-3 in that regard. The C position drags us down, but there are three legitimate options, so a C by committee may work. It won't be great, but it really doesn't have to be. All the committee really needs to do is rebound OK (not great) and play solid defense.

If that happens, we could make a run, if every body else is hot, or at least no one is cold.

Edouble
10-14-2008, 03:34 PM
They have a new list up, and we are a top frontcourt. With Hendo and Kyle, we may have the top PF/SF combo in the nation. At worst we are top 2-3 in that regard. The C position drags us down, but there are three legitimate options, so a C by committee may work. It won't be great, but it really doesn't have to be. All the committee really needs to do is rebound OK (not great) and play solid defense.

If that happens, we could make a run, if every body else is hot, or at least no one is cold.

Not a knock on you Diddy, but your post, plus the general message of the whole thread is still the same thing we've been hearing all summer: 1-4 we are as good or better than anyone in the country (including our backups, it's a strong argument that our top 4 are the best top 4 around), and the C position is the huge question mark. I can't wait to see how the minutes get spread around that 5th spot during the first 4 or 5 games, while Coach K experiments and one man or a platoon emerges as the best option.